Fort Holabird or the Twilight Zone?
The trip from Fort Dix to Baltimore lasted approximately three hours. It had occurred to me that it was the first time in eight weeks that I actually was sitting in a relatively comfortable seat. In basic training, there are virtually no chairs. True, one sits in training rooms and in the mess hall, but those chairs are built for function, not for comfort. Sitting on a bunk is just not the same as sitting in a real chair. I wonder if today I would find a seat on Greyhound bus quite as wonderful as it seemed then.
More importantly, however, the trip meant three hours alone - away from other soldiers and drill sergeants for the first time in more than eight weeks. It had been easy to forget that the world did not stop at the Fort Dix gates, but rather it was humming along quite nicely. The tiny island of civilian life on the Greyhound bus gave me three hours to stare out the window and think about the past eight weeks, about my life prior to those eight weeks, and how strange it seemed that things I had nothing to do with and had no control over placed me on this bus headed south to some damned place no one seemed to know anything about.
Once in Baltimore, I dragged my jam-packed duffel bag off the bus, and asked a few people where I could catch the bus to Fort Holabird. One person said, “I heard of Fort Meade, but I really don’t know anything about Fort Holabird. Are you sure you don’t mean Fort Meade?” A couple other people were equally as ignorant about Fort Holabird. I thought Christ, these people live here, and they never heard of the place? What the hell…??? Finally, I asked the information person at the bus terminal, who mercifully knew what bus I should take to get to this mystery military post.
Shortly thereafter, duffel bag and I boarded the local bus that would take us to the base. I asked the bus driver to let me know when we got to Fort Holabird. “No problem,” he said. I was more than a little relieved to confirm that I was on the right bus and that the driver actually knew where the damned place was. The uniform again provoked stares, smiles and glares from the other passengers. By this time, I was becoming accustomed to it. Besides, I was tired, and I just wanted to get to wherever the hell I was supposed to be.
“Here’s the base, son,” the driver said, as he stopped the bus by the gate, in front of a guardhouse. I struggled with the duffle bag down the bus aisle and thanked the driver as I turned to step off through the bus doors. As I got off the bus, I was horrified to see an MP (military policeman) looking at me and walking at a brisk pace from the guardhouse in my direction. Oh hell. Here it comes. He was a tall, staff sergeant, the same rank as my drill sergeant. I didn’t think it possible, but the MP looked even more frightening than the drill sergeants I had just spent eight weeks with. He was wearing the white MP helmet and a black MP armband. His trousers were bloused over his spit-shined airborne boots, and he wore a 45 semi-automatic sidearm. I braced myself for what I was certain would be a ration of shit about something or other I was not doing right.
Before I could say that I was reporting for duty (that’s what one is supposed to say), he said, “Hi. You need help with that bag?”
I said, “Pardon me?” What did he say??
He repeated, “How ya doing? You look like you could use some help with that bag.”
I was speechless. I could only nod my head in the affirmative, something that would have unleashed a torrent of invective from a drill sergeant about the importance of “sounding off like you got a pair!”
The MP looked at me for a moment, and I thought, OK, let the hollering begin. He didn’t holler; He said, “You look beat,” and he effortlessly tossed my duffel bag over his shoulder and carried it to the guardhouse. He set it down and asked, “Where on the base are you headed?” Still in shock, I told him that I had no idea where I was headed. I just knew that I was ordered to come here. He smiled – he actually smiled – and said, “No problem. Let me take a look at your orders.”
He took a quick look at the orders and said, “O.K. The building you have to report to is about a quarter mile down this street on the right side – big brick building – you can’t miss it. When you get there, ask for Sergeant Perez. He’ll get you squared away.”
I thanked him and began walk in the direction he had indicated. The MP shouted behind me, “Wait!” I thought, OK, I knew that this was too good to be true – this must be some kind of trap. Now, the hollering will begin.
I turned in his direction and said, “Yes?”
He said, “It’s really too far for you to walk with that bag. I’ll have someone drive you.” OK, Jimbo, this must be some kind of a Twilight-friggin’-Zone thing. There is no way that white-helmeted, bloused-trousered, pistol packin’staff sergeant MP just said that he would get me a ride because it was too far for me to walk with a heavy bag.
But, that’s what he said.
The MP got on the phone, and in a minute or two a corporal appeared in an Army car and said, “You the guy who needs a ride? Hop in.”. During the short ride to my destination, I couldn’t think of anything to say to the corporal, other than to thank him for the lift. “Here’s the barracks building” he said. “Sergeant Perez should be in the orderly room. He’ll check you in.”
I found the orderly room, and, just as promised, Sergeant Perez was there. He was a sergeant-first class (three stripes up and two rockers). Again, I found myself thinking that it was absolutely impossible for a sergeant-first-class to be anything other than mean and ornery. When I entered the room, breathless from having lugged the bag up the stairs, Sergeant Perez looked up from the papers on his desk, and said, “Yes? What can I do for you?” Wait a minute. This is the way civilized people speak. Sergeants don’t talk this way. What in Christ’s name is going on here?
“I’m reporting for duty, sergeant.”
“Oh, you must be one of the new students. You’re a little early, but that is not a problem.” Did he say “students?”
I could no longer contain myself. I blurted out, “What is this place?”
“You don’t know?” the sergeant said.
“No I don’t, and I have not been able to find anyone who knows anything about this place.”
“This is the United States Army Military Intelligence School.”
I stood there in silence trying to process it all. After a few seconds, I asked, “What will I be doing here?”
“Let’s take a look at your orders, and we’ll see.” I handed him my orders, and he said, “You are a 96C. You’re an interrogator.”
“An interrogator?” He remained patient, despite my stupidly repeating everything I had just heard.
“Yes, that’s what a 96C is. I also see that you speak German.”
“Well, I took the German test. How can you tell from looking at the orders that I speak German?”
The sergeant explained, “It says that your MOS (military occupation specialty) is 96C2L29. The “96C” tells me that you are an interrogator, and the “2L29” tells me that you speak German.” I couldn’t help thinking back to that miserable bastard at Fort Dix who tried to intimidate me into not taking the German test. (see 1/3/03)
The sergeant, still looking at my orders, continued, “Oh, now I know why you might be a little puzzled by all this. I see that you are a draftee. We don’t get many draftees. Most guys enlist in order to get into Military Intelligence and they know in advance what it is all about.”
“Well, it’s close to the end of the work day here, so let me get you some bedding and show you to the barracks.” Hold it. A sergeant-first-class is going to get my bedding and show me to the barracks? People in hotels show you to your room. People in the Army don’t show you to your room. Twilight Zone….definitely.
He emerged from another room with sheets, a pillow and a blanket, and walked me down the hall to a large bay area, with approximately twenty double bunks on each side of the room. Lockers ran down the center of the bay. “I believe you’re the first one here, so you can pick your spot. Make up your bunk, and stop by the office when you’re done to pick up some forms.”
I made up the bunk on autopilo and emptied the contents of my duffel bag into my locker. It was all still too much to think about. When I finished, I reported back to the orderly room.
Sergeant Perez handed me a couple forms, and said, “Fill these out when you have a chance. We’ll need them next week.” He took out a map of the base, and circled things like that mess hall and the PX (Post Exchange – i.e. the store). He said, “I think you may have missed dinner at the mess hall, but you can get a burger or something at the PX.” A burger? I can eat by myself? I can go to a store? And, I’m not being hollered at?
“Thanks, that sounds great,” I said, beginning to actually speak to Sergeant Perez as if he was a regular person.
“So, what are your plans for the weekend?”
“Pardon me? My plans?”
“”Yeah, are you going to hang around the base? You could go into Baltimore. You could go to D.C.”
“You mean that I can leave the base when I want?”
“Sure. Just be back here by 7 o’clock, Monday morning. That’s when we start the classes.”
‘You mean I can go home for the weekend, if I want?”
He smiled and said, “That depends on where you live. I don’t think going to California would make much sense. Where do you live?”
“New Jersey,” I replied.
“That’s no problem. The buses run regularly between Baltimore and Newark.”
Absolutely stupefied, I said, “Please forgive me. I just want to make sure that I understand. I just checked in here, and I can turn around and go home for the weekend, if I want?”
“That’s right. Just be back by Monday Morning.”
“Do I need a written pass or anything?”
“Nope. Not necessary. Do you have civilian clothes with you?” Did he say civilian clothes? Where’s Rod Serling?
“No. We weren’t allowed to have civilian clothes at Fort Dix.”
“Well, you may want to bring some back with you from home. You only have to wear your uniform during duty hours. Unless you have some kind of extra duty, civilian clothes are fine around here after duty.” This cannot be.
Perez continued, “If you have no further questions, I’m going to hit the road. See you Monday morning. Have a nice weekend.” And he left.
I sprinted to a pay phone to call my family and girlfriend to breathlessly tell them I was coming home. “Are you in trouble?” my mother asked. So did my girlfriend. I promised I would bring them all up to date when I got home.
A few hours later, I found myself back on the Greyhound bus, this time heading north. I wondered how the cosmic cards fell such that I ended up being selected by be trained as an interrogator. Had some of those psychological profiles we took identified me as a latent knuckle-breaker? I reasoned that the job of an interrogator is to question prisoners of war, and the only place I could think of that would have a supply of prisoners of war was Vietnam. Was this a good thing? All this was happening way too fast. I would wait until Monday to think about being an interrogator.
All I knew was that I was going home for the weekend and that for the first time in months I felt just a little bit like a human being.
Enjoyed your site. Brought back memories of my posting back in 1955(spent entire time at Ft. Holabird-55 thru 57)with the Headquarters Company.
I assume you were there during the Vietman era? It had its share of chickenshit, but nothing like basic or advanced. Thamks for bringing back some memories.
Comment by manny adler — February 12, 2004 @ 6:54 pm
My dad was stationed at Ft. Holabird mid-50’s to 1963. I had no idea it was military intelligence. Yes, he spoke German, In fact his father was Italian (from Mass.) and mother German. He also married a German lady. Can you tell me anything more about what was done there? Where would I find out on his discharge papers or whatever what his actual job description was? Is there anyone who was stationed there (like Manny) who would have known? Folks have been dead for years - they destroyed almost all photos from childhood and ALL papers of any kind including personal letters before they died. Not one piece of paper left in house other than Dad’s discharge and a few photos from pre-war Germany. Thank you very much - any help greatly appreciated. E-mail address is case-sensitive - be sure to use caps, etc. where needed.
Comment by Brenda O'Connor — March 9, 2004 @ 6:11 am
Manny Adler - This is one of those “Do you know?”. I attended the agents course starting 2 Jan. 1956 and then assigned to Korea. Only one guy in our class didn’t get a TS clearance because he was a Fullbright scholar in England. Supposedly he was assigned to Hq,Holabird which didn’t make sense to me. What a golden opportunity to learn agents names. He was from Kansas City and I never thought that I would forget his name. He was a nice guy and married. Any remote possibilities that you might have run on to him. Bernie
Comment by Bernie Thielen — May 8, 2004 @ 9:10 pm
My dad attended the agent handlers course at Fort Holabird in the late 1950s, in fact duing the 1958 NY Giants- Baltimore Colts world championship. He returned for refresher training prior to going to Viet Nam in 1966. Does anyone remember him, his name was Norman J. Melody? Does anyone have any photos of Fort Holabird?
Comment by Paul Melody — September 2, 2004 @ 9:39 am
My dad was stationed at Ft Holabird after returning from Germany 1955-1956. He was an MP and said the base was pretty desserted when he got there. He doesn’t remember a lot of details but does have few stories to tell. I am retired USAF, Oct 1994.
Comment by Phil Kindel — October 2, 2004 @ 2:23 am
Trying to do some research for a “memoir” I’m writing. I spent 3 months at Ft. Holabird, Jan thru Mar 1969, training at the school as 96D! I think. That’s a “clerk typist with top secret clearance.” Then off to Saigon for 1 1/2 years. So, where is Holabird in relationship to Baltimore? I don’t remember and can’t find it on the map. Anyone remember?
Comment by Chris Abel — November 12, 2004 @ 11:12 pm
I believe that it was in a place called Dundalk (sp?), a short bus ride to Baltimore. I believe we were there about the same time.
Comment by Jim - Parkway Rest Stop — November 13, 2004 @ 2:55 am
I was at Holabird from sep 65 to jun 68. It is in Dundalk, part of Baltimore county.I had the same shock of going from basic training at Dix to the freedom of the Bird. During the build-up for Vietnam, everyone assigned to a school was “frozen” (code 9). They didn’t want to slow the flow of new people to Nam so they didn’t want to change the personel responsable to keep the flow going. I was a 97D.20, intelligence coordinator, assigned to S2 (personnel security) we issued and validated security clearances for in-comeing students and permenent party personnel. I spent many a night(too many) across the street at the Holabird Inn. Thanks for the memories!
Comment by bill leach — November 21, 2004 @ 12:28 am
I was quite suprised to find a website of people who have actually heard of Ft. Holabird, much less stationed there. I was assigned there out of Ft Dix from Nov. 1967 thru the spring of 1968. I trained as a 96D2T, Imagery Interpreter, TIFF qualified. After that, I was with the 1st MI Btn in DaNag for a year. After that, I was with the 15th MI Btn at Ft. Bragg.
Comment by Stephen D Griffis — December 1, 2004 @ 11:11 am
If you went to school in 1967, I issued or validated your security clearance and checked you in on your first day.
Bill
Comment by bill leach — December 1, 2004 @ 10:56 pm
I enjoyed reading your story and everyone’s comments. My grandfather was stationed and died at Fort Holabird while in the Counter Intelligence Corps in the late 1940’s after WWII. There was a hall dedicated in his memory there. It was Hubbard Hall. Does anyone remember it? I am actually trying to find if the building or the dedication plaques still exist. I would love to find it for my grandmother. She will be 85 years old in a few weeks! Any comments would be appreciated and enjoyed.
Comment by Maria Franco — December 7, 2004 @ 9:18 pm
A group of us transferred from Fort Knox to Fort Holabird after basic training in 1956. Most of us were draftees and were taking the Counter Intelligence Course for typists as it could be done in the 2 years we would spend in the army. I remember ‘marching’ my group to the mess hall before we found what a heaven Fort Holabird was. Though I thought we would go to Korea, most of my group went to Europe. I was very lucky to be sent to France where I spent my time at a field office in civilian clothes! I have fond memories of Fort Holabird.
Comment by Louis J. Maher — December 15, 2004 @ 6:05 pm
This is great, folks who know about Ft. Holabird (USAINTS). I was sent there directly after basic training at Ft. Lewis, Washington in late 1969. I too experienced the culture shock of going from concentration camp basic training to the laid-back Ft. Holabird atmosphere (don’t you dare salute anything lower than a General, and don’t march, just walk).
I was trained as a 96DT, Aerial Imagery Interpreter. After that, a number of us were also sent to an advanced Aerial Imagery Interpretation course combined with an NCO academy. We graduated at Spec. 5 level.
Most of that class went from there to Viet Nam, but 6 of us had order changes at the last minute and were sent to the 502nd MI Battalion in Seoul, Korea. Best time of my life.
Comment by Richard Lovelace — December 29, 2004 @ 12:51 pm
I served with the 1st MI Btn (ARS) in Vietnam in 1970-71 with 3 months in Danang, 3 months in Nahtrang, and 6 months in Pleiku. Flew U-6A Davilland Beavers. We were the “Pleku Good Guys”. Flew I and II Corps daily delivering intel pictures.
Paul F. Webb, CW3 Retired
Comment by Paul F. Webb — January 12, 2005 @ 11:10 pm
Great story site. I share many of your memories, I too went from DIX to Holabird and Bill you must have checked me out. In fact you must have found a problem as they claimed to have lost my personnel records about the time the rest of my Class shipped out to Vietnam or Korea as a 96D. I spent the next 3 months as CQ working nights for Cpt. Doyle Smith. Oh well it gave me the opportunity to one very cute School Teacher at “The Keystone”. The Teacher eventually became my wife. Anybody else remember this cool bar with the hot chicks and how bout “Summer In The City - Lovin’ Spoonful - 66″ and the Legendary Jim Palmer and Johnny Unitas what a sports town.
From there I went on to 502nd with Gen. Bonesteel’s 8th and some of my former Classmates. My most memorable memories were working with Sharon Tates father Maj.Frank Tate and our shops involvment with the “Blue House and Pueblo Incidents of 68″. I have also managed to communicate with a few of my old mates from there.
Keep the site up
Jon Tallman
Comment by Jon Tallman — January 13, 2005 @ 10:26 pm
What great memories….Ft. Holabird…I liked it so much I went twice. In 1966, right after basic at Ft. Polk, LA. I went to Holabird to become an Analyst (96B),,on to Ft. Bragg for some interesting times and then SVN for a year. Back to Holabird for CI Agent class then the 113th MI Gp in Chicago. 1968 Dem National Convention…good times had by all. A little more work in CONUS..and then an offer I couldn’t refuse….I’ll tell that one later.. Anyone who may have been in the same places at the same time,,shoot me an email..
Comment by Jerry Race — January 28, 2005 @ 3:39 pm
I did the ‘Bird ‘ before Berlin
and again before the Nam. She taught me well
I am home again.
ljk
Comment by ljklaiber — February 1, 2005 @ 6:38 pm
Hi, Wow, didnt know the “fort” was still there. I was part of the permanent personnel there in 1955-56..Medics… Worked in the laboratory. drawing blood, making slides etc and then as an assistant in the dental clinic. Were about 5 dentists there. One was a woman dentist who had been in a concentration camp and had the number tattooed on her inner wrist. Was a colonel in charge(Rudisill?) who was also a dentist..I “retired ” from the Army in april 56 but not before being transferred to the MPs there. At the time it was called CIC school and kind of “hush hush”.. memories,,Thanks for the site..
Comment by Bob Nargi — February 19, 2005 @ 4:06 pm
I was one of four guys who were photographers at Ft. Holabird during 1954 and 1955. It took four of us to relieve one guy who had numerous duties. I, too, was surprised at the freedom we had, particularly considering the security of the place. Not bad duty, but I was delighted to be discharged.
Comment by Charlie Larus — February 24, 2005 @ 6:26 pm
Fort Holabird is no longer there. It was deactivated in the 70’s, I believe. The Army Intelligence unit was moved to Arizona, to be closer to Barry Goldwater. My father enlisted there and was stationed there in 1955-57 (second and third grades for me) and again in 1960 (6th grade). I remember staying at the Reception Center (I’m not sure of the name) for about 2 weeks when we moved to the area. We had lots of great times at the Officers pool.
Comment by Jonathan T. Kurtz — February 27, 2005 @ 11:26 am
I enlisted to be an Order of Battle Analyst in late 1968, after basic at Ft. Jackson, myself, Walter “Hap” Farrell, and Brian Landry, the latter from Weston and Marlborough Mass. respectively, I was from Framingham, Mass, we found ourselves at Fort Holabird in early January 1969. We attended and graduated from the R-12, Intelligence Analyst Course and were awarded the military occupational specialty (MOS) of 96B10. All three of us went summarily to Vietnam, as Male 96B’s did in those days. Four WACS in the class all went to Germany, one male went to Germany also, the rest to Vietnam. I remember the 1,2,3 club, other students, Rocco Nudo, Ceasar Rosales, Nick Pappas, Bob Rheiner, and a confusing world at a very confusing time in history. Most of us went to the 525 M.I. Group in Vietnam, some to 5th. Group, 25th. Infantry, and other derivative units. I am now retired after a 30 year Army career and am still serving in the intelligence career field as an instructor. When I retired I was the last active duty still-serving soldier in the intelligence corps who was a Fort Holabird Graduate. Anybody who remembers me, or a fellow classmate, please make contact.. Best to all.. Jeff Gallant
Comment by Jeffrey Gallant — March 11, 2005 @ 5:47 pm
I was there. There where a lot of us that started class for 96D2T in December of 1969. I was the only one to come from Fort Bragg, NC And when I came back from Christmas leave I drove my 1958 Cady lemo. Made a few trips with it, even to Boston. It was the best time of my 2 years 6 months and 5 days of active duty. While in Danang Vietnam I worked with many guys that had gone through there and a few more after while stationed in Fort Hood, TX.
Comment by Richard Rauenhorst — March 13, 2005 @ 1:01 am
The Army sold Fort Holabird to Baltimore City for $1. It has subsequently been parceled out and redeveloped into a business/industrial park. With the exception of a VFW Post, the only building that remains is what is known locally as the old DIS building. It is located on Van Deman Street and is scheduled for demolition within the year. This building was supposedly a school of some sort at one time, including mock villages behind it. There is a wonderful piece of marble/granite on the floor of the main entrance to this building complete with a logo. The new owners of the property plan to salvage this section of the floor and incorporate it, in some way, into their new building. Call it a tribute. While the Fort may be gone, one small piece will live on.
Comment by vzeeec9d — March 18, 2005 @ 11:11 pm
LOOKING FOR ANYONE WHO MAY REMEMBER MY UNCLE,ROBERT HANSEN SFC, HE WAS AT HOLABIRD 1N 51-52. SERVED A TOUR IN KOREA AND ALSO VIETNAM 67-68.THANKS
Comment by BILL BERGHOLM — March 19, 2005 @ 3:54 pm
I was in the 96B class at “Holabird-on-the-Colgate” from January-April of 1965, then off to Region I of the 113th MI Group in Chicago where I worked as an agent until 1967. I’d like to hear from anyone from that era as I’m writing a book on the stateside role of the 113th MI during the riots of 1967.
Comment by Craig Anderson — March 24, 2005 @ 12:11 am
-Looking for anyone who may have known my father-in-law, Robert Andrew (Bob) Balog. He was at Fort Holabird in late 1970. Thanks!
Comment by Leslie Balog — April 15, 2005 @ 12:59 pm
Anybody attend image interpretation school in 1968 and later assigned to the 45th Spt. Co. or CICV in Vietnam? All I can remember is the Arbys roast beef joint outside the front gate.
Comment by David Driscoll — May 2, 2005 @ 5:40 pm
I have almost the same memory and perspective as you did from back in 1968. I completed Basic at Ft Dix in June and took the bus trip to Balitmore like you. However, I was to become a 96B20 (intelligence analyst)I went through the same confusing reorientation interactiong with people other than Drill Sargents. After arriving at Ft Holibird and finding out that I could get home to Massachusetts every weekend of the summer by taking the bus to Newark Airport and a short hop to Logan I was elated. Alas by October 0f 1968 I was headed overseas where the odessey continued.
Comment by Ted Williams — May 3, 2005 @ 12:09 pm
Father spent career in CIC, and retired from Holabird in ‘61. His file is as thin as a recruits after 23 years of assignement.
Comment by rinehart — May 3, 2005 @ 12:47 pm
I too have fond memories of the Bird and the aroma of Colgate Creek. I was there in 1963, then to Bragg, then Korea, then Viet Nam, where after about 6 months I reunited with many of my friends from Bragg (but they came to me).
Back then, the really nice thing about our line of business was there was hardly any where you were assigned that you didn’t find at least one person you knew. Baker, French, Martin, Coogar?
Comment by Paul D. Melton — May 3, 2005 @ 6:32 pm
David Driscoll, the beef place outside the main gate was Harleys. They were famous for the Harley Burger, it was beef patties smotherd in onions. The other corner across from the main gate was the Holabird Inn. I spent many a night there for three years, 1965-1968, then stumbled to Harleys for a Harley Burger Sub.
Comment by bill leach — May 3, 2005 @ 10:48 pm
USAINTS 67-T-5 and 68-TA-1 96D2T RVN 1968-69 1st MIB(ARS) HHC at 121 Chi Lang St. in Gia Dinh/Saigon and 45th MID(ARS) later re-named Det. E at Hue/Phu Bai. Back to USAINTS in ‘69-’70 as instructor and as Tac. NCO for the advanced II and NCO course. Spent many an evening at the Holabird Inn where they made very good cheeseburger subs. and at the Greek place a block or so on down Holabird Ave. Anyone remember Lts. Fitch and Frick? Better known to us as Frick ‘n Frack.
Comment by John Nichols — May 14, 2005 @ 12:27 am
I arrived at the “Bird” just ahead of a 100 year snowstorm in January of 66. I came from sunny California and suffered the same experience about where Holabird was, at the airport. Finally a guy from Arizona approached me and offered to share a cab as he was going to Holabird as well. The first few months at the “Bird” were an experience to say the least. At that point the place was overbooked. The barracks were stuffed with four times the personnel they were designed to handle. The gym was filled with bunks stacked 3 high. Every available space was used for housing. Then school started, in double shifts. My class went from 0600 to 1200, with another right behind us. I was one of those clerks with a top secret clearance, a 97D20 I believe. After school was done I got assigned to Holabird. Permanent Party there was a good deal, except for one thing, the first sergeant…….aka: The Tank. He would roust late sleepers for police call on the weekends. My cube-mate and I bailed off the second story balcony once to avoid him. I worked at the 1-2-3 club to make some extra $$$ and became kinda popular for being able to pour the tallest beers, a reputation that followed me all the way to Nam. Part of my time at Holabird was about as Un-military as one could imagine, but I for one, would not have changed a thing. Does anyone know of any posted pics of Holabird in the 60’s??
Comment by Ray Bosnich — May 25, 2005 @ 10:38 am
I arrived at Holabird from Fort Lewis in late Sept. of 66 and did the image interpretation course. It was culture shock, Holabird was great and I too remember the old Holabird Inn. Baltimore or “Balmer” as the locals called it was a fun place. All of us from our class shipped out for TIFF training at Ft. Myers and then on to Bragg and the 15th MI. I transferred over to the 14th MI and worked in supply for CONTIC until I was sent to Vietnam and the 73rd Aviation Company in Vung Tau.
Comment by Jim Shoop — May 25, 2005 @ 12:25 pm
I grew up in Dundalk and lived just outside the Ft. My first job, in 1959, was at the Officers Club doing janitorial work and helping set up many functions and Friday Night Happy Hours. I met many of the army brats living there and use to hang out at the pool next to the Officers Club and then they built a new pool up on the hill by the old tank track and ball fields. Use to walk through Cummings Apartments to get to work. It would be nice to connect with any kids who grew up there in the late 50’s.
Comment by Gary Clelan — June 6, 2005 @ 10:54 pm
I arrived at Ft. Holabird in Sept. of 1967 after basic training at Ft. Campbell Kentucky. Even before I started my Area Studies training–actually the first night I was there–a couple of us newbies headed downtown to the notorious “Block.” Didn’t even change out of our uniforms. Joined up with the 6th Batallion, Special Ops, of the 525 MI Group in Saigon after graduation from USAINTS. Later, went back to the Bird as an instructor in the Area Studies Practical Applications Dept. Lots of drunken nights at the Holabird Inn and the Keystone.
Comment by D. Morin — June 28, 2005 @ 9:13 pm
I wanted to add that last Sept. I visited Baltimore for the first time since leaving Ft. Holabird in 1970. Stayed at the Sheraton near the Inner Harbor but took a taxi to the old Ft. Holabird site which is now an industrial park. The buildings where the Holabird Inn and the Keystone are still there though appeared closed. Anybody remember Squire’s Italian restaurant near the corner of Holabird and Dundalk? Still there and greatly enlarged. Other than that, the surrounding neighborhood seemed to have gone down hill considerably from 1970. I’m sure the Army installation provided a lot of money to the area. There really is nothing left of the old Ft. Holabird in the industrial park that I could see. Overall, I had a ball at the place and surrounding area when stationed there.
Comment by D. Morin — June 29, 2005 @ 8:38 pm
Eurika! A Fort Holibird site. I did two training at Fort Holibird. 97D20 MI coordinater and 97B40 Counter Intelligence Agent In 69 and 71. Have never met anyone else from Holibird since then. Lived in the WAC shack so know about the odor or Colgate Creek. Worked at H&H company as a Coordinator. Got sent to Saint Louis Mo to the DODNAC center as an Agent.
Comment by Kathleen Stevens — July 5, 2005 @ 4:13 pm
Did 97B and then 97C training at ‘the Bird’, in the late ’60’s enjoyed your rememberances. I will tell you my own briefly. Upon arriving at Holibird after Basic, and having my first meal at the mess hall.
Having my first meal in 8 weeks in leisure. I had baked halibut. Being from west Texas, I had never had it before, but due to the wonderful memories it brings back, it remains one of my favorite dishes
Comment by A. Robertson — July 5, 2005 @ 6:19 pm
I remember I enlisted in March 1966, I went to basic at Fort Knox, signed up for OCS and they sent me to Fort Ord, California for 11B10 training. Just before finishing 11B10, I found out that I was being sent to Fort Sill, OK for Artillery OCS and I would be a Forward Observer. Having a desire to have a chance in living, I dropped my orders for OCS and they sent me to Fort Holabird for 96B20, Intelligence Anaylst Training. We had a mixed class of Marines and Army. We had a Marine Master Sgt. It was good times. I remember going to a movie and us laughing at James Bond. I was sent to Fort Bragg, we called ourselves the lost 11. I was a desk analyst for Israel and Jordan, wrote these strategic analysis books. Gave out bagels and lox during the 67 war. Everyone went to Vietnam except me, I was sent to Seoul Korea, worked in the War Room 8th Army, I was the NCOIC. Very interesting work.
Comment by Joel Storchan — July 6, 2005 @ 3:13 am
I was at the “Bird” in 1968. It was a great experience except when the booze plants smoke stacks lit up. Anyone remember the name of the sandwich place across from the front gate?
Comment by Chris Sawyer — July 6, 2005 @ 9:39 pm
What the heck were the “booze plants smoke stacks?” I think the sub shop was called Harley’s or something like that. A much better sub shop was located near the corner of Holabird and Dundalk–think it was called the Village Subs. On the way back from the Keystone we would stop there for a hamburger sub, eat it on the way back, and then throw up on the railroad track. Doesn’t get much better than that.
Comment by D. Morin — July 7, 2005 @ 9:14 pm
It was Harley’s. They were famous for Harley_Burgers. Three hamburger patties in a sub roll, smothered in onions (I’m getting hungry)! Even better, was the holabird Inn on the other corner!!!(I’m getting thirsty)!
Comment by bill — July 7, 2005 @ 11:02 pm
Fort Holabird, the most unmilitary post in the Army. I went through the agent’s course (97B) in the fall of 1964. Mostly I went through lots of beer at the Holabird Inn. There was a girl who played piano there in the fall of 1964. Our class were regulars there and often joined in and sang with her. She was a sweetheart to tolerate a bunch of drunk agent wannabees. Wonder whatever happened to her?
Went back to the ‘Bird in fall of 1966 for 97C training but was older, wiser and married.
Mostly I remember the actors in the glassed-in classroom. And that damn bouncing bridge between the barracks and the classroom building. We used to march in step to see how high we could bounce it. Great times.
Comment by Rogers — July 9, 2005 @ 8:22 am
I remember the interminable time spent in casual company in 1968 and the “ole Sarge” who doled out the work assignments. I caught a good one as a driver until my 97C class started in July. Many good memories inspite of the rather alarming odor wafting from Colgate creek. As I recall, “Hey Jude” covered the airways.
Comment by Gary halgunseth — July 13, 2005 @ 6:39 pm
Graduated from the I.I. Course (I still have my diploma), 14 Feb-67 signed by Col.Richard S. Smith, Commandant and Major James Hess. Lucked out and went to SETAF Aviation Co. in Italy, not before getting stuck in casual company. (guys waiting for their class to begin and other waiting to ship out) they line you up in the A.M. and give out B.S. duties for the day. After
two days of not calling my name - I walked around the Fort all day, till the EM club opened.
They did things 1st class at the ‘bird’ I still have a formal Invitation for the 1966 Thanksgiving Day Dinner.
“Consolidated Mess 136″, with a message from Col. Smith on one side and the menu on the other.
They even took the class to Aberdeen Proving Ground for a day, and sent us to Ft. Myer so we
could tour the Pentagon. What other Post hands out ‘Day Trips”?.
Great Fort, Great bunch of guys.
Comment by Steve Sisco — July 15, 2005 @ 9:50 am
Great to read the rememberances here. I was a 96D2T II and I showed up in Jan.1969. My welcome experience was very similar, the CQ sent me down to Casual Company (I think this is where John Dean served his Watergate Sentence)and the first guy I met was Paul Benoit. He asked me what my school was and when I told him I was an II he said,”You’re going ta Nam, all the 96 Deltas do…”. I had just come off Christmas leave and my orders had me reporting on 12/31 which I recall was a Friday night. The CQ told me to get lost until Monday if I wanted to, but I didn’t have the money to go back home to Connecticut so I just hung out. I think I was in Casual for about a week and then we were assigned to a school. We were the PM class which ran from noon to 6PM. That was great because we didn’t have to get up until 9:00AM. I really liked my time at the Bird and I was hoping that I could get back there after I did my time in Nam (1st Mibars Det B in Danang 5/15/69-4/15-70)but no such luck, I went to the 66th MI Group in Munich (that is a whole other talk show). Benoit and I were assigned to Det B as “brothers” but he was killed by a Marine who was stealing his jeep about half way through our tour.
Our Bay in Building 36, as I recall, was a small one that looked out at the Railroad tracks that ran through the post. On Friday nights we would watch as the new guys would arrive by bus from Dix and Basic. We got the idea that they needed some discipline so I dressed up as a Drill Corporal, I had a Smokey Bear hat and I was an acting jack squad leader so I would go down and meet the bus and dole out the standard ration of harassment that these poor souls were all expecting. I would bark at them trying to scare them into thinking that Basic was a picnic compared to what they were in store for at the Bird! Because they were all expecting this very treatment they were only too obliging. I don’t know why I didn’t get punched out when they saw me around post in the weeks following when they realized how civilized the Holabird experience was.
Remember the Friday night cattle shows at the 123 club? My memory is very dim from those days but I remember going to them and watching some of my classmates getting drunk and dancing with girls they would never approach under any other circumstances. Dancing to “Crimson and Clover” by Tommy James and the Shondells God it was pretty lame.
I really had a good time, made great friends, and learned a lot there and then when we graduated from II school they sent us over to Ft. McNair for a week’s TDY at the Behavior Research Lab in DC. We were asked to read out photos in the AM and then we were out on the town during Cherry Blossom time from noon on. It was a nice way to leave for Nam.
Comment by magaremko@comcast.net — July 15, 2005 @ 9:05 pm
Gosh…Holabird. Certainly remember dinners at Hausner’s and evenings at the Acropolis. I went through the 9668 course in 1963/1964 and from there on to the 502nd in ROK. Crossing the Colgate on the way to lunch…what a way to kill an appetite. For a number of summers in the late 1960’s and into the the very early 1970’s I took summer vacations at Ft. Holabird…2 to 4 week stints as part of the residency portion of the Carrer Course one does as a reservist. Colonel Sheldon the foreign area intellignece school man at Holabird when I was there and my Bn.CO in ROK. Fun times.
Comment by E. Herrick — July 21, 2005 @ 1:37 pm
STATIONED AT HOLABIRD END OF 1958 TO MARCH 1959….TOOK THE AGENTS COURSE AND WOUND UP IN BAD KISSINGEN,GERMANY AFTER A SHORT STAY IN WURZBURG. HAVING GONE THROUGH BASIC AT FORT BENNING,GEORGIA,HOLABIRD WAS ONE HUGE AND VERY POEASANT SURPRISE.
Comment by RICHARD A. PROSS — July 27, 2005 @ 2:12 pm
Arrived at Ft. Holibird September 1966 after basic in Ft. Lenordwood, Missori. Original orders were for advanced training as a Battle Order Specialist (trained in viewing photos with the magnifying glass on a small stand above photos taken from the air). One cool fall morning we were lined up during morning muster, they called out names. 13 of us lucky devils were called out. We were advised that we were going to get some additional advanced training, another 13 weeks “Prisoner of War Interrogator.” Note the number 13? This was a guaranteed trip to Nam. My best memory of Holibird was the weekends, usually Friday or Saturday night, about 1:30-2:00 AM some guy would go to Harleys and bring back one of their famous sandwiches. The smell would wake up everyone in the barricks and off we would all go and get our own. Seemed to be a weekend tradition. I was with the 9th Division Military Intelligence unit in the Mekong Delta. Finished my last time at Ft. Bragg at the new training school set up there to train replacements in 1968.
Comment by Richard Goniu — July 28, 2005 @ 12:23 am
I was in the agent class fall of 1963, then to the 108th in New England. After mostly doorbell ringing, promoted to civilian. After myriad of adventures, moved back to teach college (and write my book—go to dailybard.com) and joined MIANE, the local CIC old farts association, which meets monthly, and even gave a presentation ot two. Plan to visit Baltimore in October when in DC for the AFIO meeting.
Comment by Philip Madell — July 29, 2005 @ 5:41 pm
I am writing a book on the CHUSA activities in the late ’60’s. Any of you who were involved in CHUSA in those days, I would really appreciate hearing from you. You will of course be well cited. Thanks.
Alan
Comment by Alan Robertson — August 2, 2005 @ 1:47 am
I too was struck by the relaxed atmosphere of Holabird immediately upon arriving in July of 69. The group that accompanied me and I had just finished basic at Fort Ord. After traveling all day we arrived sometime after midnight on a Sunday morning and were told to show up for classes on Monday. I remember the guy who checked us in saying that we weren’t going to believe how different our treatment would be at Holabird compared to the treatment we had been subjected to in basic. I was skeptical at first, but by Monday morning I knew what he was talking about. It was almost like being in college again.
Near the end of my 96B Intelligence Analyst training several classmates and I were selected against our wishes (I had orders for Germany)for the first 96B NCO Academy because they could not get enough volunteers to fill the class. I seem to recall there were only a handful of applicants. The Major in charge of the program assumed that there would be such an overwhelming response to participate that he had prepared to interview candidates. There was not, and we were all required to interview. It turned out to be an absurd situation as it became a “reverse” interview, with the interviewees doing their best to present themselves as unqualified or emphatically resistant to being selected. I guess my orders to Germany were a convincing argument against my selection, however two of those who had been selected had their top secret clearances come through and I was chosen to replace one of them. I completed the course and ended up as a much resented “shake and bake” E5 with the 4th MI Co of the 4th Infantry Div. in Vietnam.
Other memories of Holabird: the old gymnasium and handball court; the infamous “Block” of downtown Baltimore; great polish sausage sandwich served in the E4 and above(?)Club.
Comment by Mike Luckey — August 5, 2005 @ 10:24 pm
Best 6 months of my life, followed by the worst year(Nam)in the 45thMI CICV at Ton Son Nut. I was there mid 65 to early 66. Spent weekdays with the nurse students at the hospital then weekends back in the bronx. Anyone at the compound at Long Bin.
Comment by Bob Marold — August 17, 2005 @ 3:44 pm
Wow…not even sure how I stumbled in here but it’s great! I arrived at Holabird in March or April(?) of 1966 for 96 Delta training. I believe we were the first TIFF qualified class. Fond memories of soft-shell crab subs from the place down the street, and hazy memories of puking my guts out somewhere near the creek after a night at the 123 club. I recall seeing the movie “the Ipcress File” at the post theater and wishing I had signed up for Agent School instead.
One Marine in our class had a wicked habit of waiting ‘till a payday Saturday night and covering the urinals with Saran-Wrap and taping a Playboy pinup at eye level. Around midnight when the guys came staggering in to take a leak before crashing, their attention was on the pinup, not where they were pissing….you’d hear a rata-tat-tat splashing sound and then a loud SON-OF-A-BITCH!!! from the latrine.
After training at the ‘Bird, I was sent to the 15th MI Bn at Ft. Bragg…God, what a pit compared to Holabird. The 15th MI was basically a holding tank for our MOS and all we had was sh*t duty like shoveling coal and painting barracks. Got so bad that I asked to be assigned to a unit in Nam, but then some Black Suits from the Pentagon showed up at morning formation and asked for five 96D volunteers for an unspecified TS project and my hand shot up….anything would be better than Bragg. Got lucky and spent the next two years at Redstone Arsenal, R&D Directorate, working on a real-time aerial recon project that never got off the ground.
Thanks for the site & the memories!
Comment by John Wallis — August 21, 2005 @ 2:55 pm
Accidentally stepped into this site. Thanks for setting up.
Started at Ft Benning 2 days after college graduation. From Benning I caught an allnight train through the North Ga Mountain and Appalacians…great ride and finally slept until sunrise and stopped at Baltimore. After basic training did not know what to expect…knew no one there either and also remember lugging that ugly green duffle on a Baltimore city bus to Ft Holabird. Man what memories…vagly remember the Harley restaurant and barely remember a swinging bridge…but strongly remember the building where the Jeep (GP) was designed. Forgot the name of the stinky creek but after hearing Colgate Creek it brought back memories.
In my case I was stationed in barracks with a bunch of routy Green Berets. We had a mystery man there that in the middle of the night (after heavy drinking)would rest his forehead on the side of a top bunk and take a leak on the person the bottom bunk…when the person on the bottom bunk screamed or yelled the Green Beret would run away…after 3 or 4 weeks of this they finally caught the guy who was having a drinking and sleep walking disorder but knew he was guilty when the yells woke him up…
Never forget watching Boog Powell (first baseman for the Baltimore Orioles)hit one in to the second level seats. At 21 yrs old my first major league baseball game.
After a real education at Ft Holabird I spend 1 day leaning how to pick locks at the Pentagon. I was there when we landed on the MOON and as a country boy from Georgia that had never left my state except for Florida on vacations, I decided to do something special on the day of the landing on the Moon. Went to the DC to the Aerospace Museum to sit underneath the Wright Brothers Plan…as I waited for the Lunar Landing, sitting directly underneath the Wright Brothers plan, a secret service agent walked up and ask politely if I would mind giving up my seat. I did and seconds later the Vice President Spiro Agnew and Astronaut Frank Borman took my seat (couch) and watched the landing on the Moon as I stood in the background on national television. My 15 minutes of fame.
After Ft Holabird I was bound for Fort Shafter, Honolulu Hawaii. What a great 1 and 1/2 year tour of duty. The military intelligence technology at Ft Shafter still today amazes me. Finally my last year was spent at Binh Wah (spelling?) at Trac III Headquarters.
Went back to Baltimore to find Ft Holabird about 5 years ago, found Dundalk, and from a friend later found Ft Holabird was shut down in 1973 and sold to a developer. Condo’s and or apartments there.
Would love to hear from Dennis Torrey (MN), Roseboro (NC) or anyone else at Ft Holabird. Most people at Ft Shafter in Hawaii were from Ft. Holabird.
Ed Haley
EHaleyCMT@comcast.net
Comment by Eddie Haley — August 24, 2005 @ 8:33 pm
Enjoyed reading all the comments. Brought back alot of memories. Was at Ft. Holabird from October 1966 - April 1967. Then to Vietnam for the next 31 months.
Comment by Jeff Reif — August 26, 2005 @ 2:02 am
Enjoyed the trip down memory lane. Was at Holibird High from Sept. 64 to Nov. 64 96B class.
From there to Ft. Eustis to a Transportation Intel. Det. and then MACV. The 123 club, the subs, and friday beer parties behind the barracks, all great memories.
Comment by Ed Speakman — September 1, 2005 @ 9:27 am
After language school (Vietnamese) at DLI - El Paso, I was at Holabird for Combat Intelligence training in late 1970. In January 1971, I was assigned to the Combined Intelligence Center, Viet Nam (CICV).
Comment by Ed McCoin — September 21, 2005 @ 1:00 am
Was stationed at Holibird from ‘64 thry ‘67 as S/A and Instructor on the FTX Committee. Anyone from that era and duty, please contact me.
Comment by Bob Scharbert — September 27, 2005 @ 8:52 pm
I came upon this by accident! I was stationed at USAINTS from July 18 1969 to September 14 1969 (approx).
I was a 96B20 and was a member of the WAC. I have been trying to find Cheryl Muto — she was stationed there also — would love to talk to her.
Yes, I remember the Colgate — smelled like apricot pits (cyanide???).
After Holabird I was stationed at the Presidio of San Francisco, another abandoned post.
This was fun. Enjoyed reading it.
Comment by Brenda Cates Kilby — September 28, 2005 @ 1:12 pm
Brenda: I spoke with Cheryl Muto (Clyde) last week. She lives in Wisconsin and I bet would love to talk to you.
Comment by kathleen Stevens — October 15, 2005 @ 1:00 pm
This is absolutely wonderful!!! Only someone who knew her well would remember her as “Clyde!”
Would also like to know whatever happened to Kathy Irish, my roomate at Holabird.
And if anybody knows whatever happened to Rose, somebody buy her a drink!!!
Comment by Brenda Cates Kilby — October 16, 2005 @ 8:46 pm
I knew a Rose, at Holibird, but can not think of her last name. The one I knew was gay, got outed, so married a young Marine she had just met, to counter the “gay” charge, and was given an honorable discharge all within a 7 day time frame. The young Marine sat in the Wac Shack charge of quarters room for a long time waiting for her, before he finally gave up. As far as I know he never saw Rose again, and neither did any of the rest of us. Rose did like to Party!
Comment by Kathleen Stevens — October 26, 2005 @ 8:53 pm
Entered Army through Ft Holabird Rep Station in Mar 65. Came back to 97B course after Basic at Ft. Jackson. Was deverted to 97D after waiting 8 wks. Classes held above 123 Club, HOT. Finished course, went to Art OCS (Dec 66)and then assigned to NSA, Came back and took the 666 course, went to VN and came back to MI Advance Course at Holabird (70). A lot of good times. DAME Course, Photo Course, The covert truck that broke down in the city and hauled back to Post with Army Wrecker. Taking covert pictures of diners in the revolving resturant, catching the 668 trying to infiltrate into Philadelphia. Yes,those were the days.
Comment by John Major — November 1, 2005 @ 2:56 pm
I went to the Holabird School for Wayward Boys in 1962 in the Agents course. Most amazing group of instructors and perm party. I had a couple of languages and wound up living in the proverbial “Interesting Times”.
When I wound up active duty my security debriefing took 2 1/2 hours while they reminded me of all the things I was supposed to forget. Civilian clothes and very little chicken exhaust.
Comment by Michael Woodill — November 1, 2005 @ 10:47 pm
Did basic training at Ft Dix August 1961 ( E Company under Lt Wiggins with Sgt Turner )Then by bus to Ft. Holabird for the agents course with a mixed bag of “troopers”. Remember typing with “click along with Mrs. Clicka” and running around tunnels with empty .38 2″ revolvers.
When taught background investigations we were instructed to cover LIDMAC, i.e., loyalty, integrety, ?, morals, ? and character. For the life of me I can not remember the D and A. Does anyone remember? Lived in Towson at the time so commuted. Ended up in the reserves witht he 224th MI detachment in Willow Grove, PA. Summer camps at Ft. Meade and Camp Drum.
Comment by Dan Egan — December 6, 2005 @ 9:55 am
The “D” in LIDMAC stood for DISCRETION!
Comment by Bill Leach — December 6, 2005 @ 10:12 pm
Dan: I remember “Ma Clicka”. She could teach anyone to type, even me, allthough I insisted it was against my religion! She held a world record as the fastest typist! I can’t remember D&A infact I had forgotton LIDMAC all together. But I remember FNU LNU and A thru F 1 thru 5 clasification system for informants. I could still do back asthmiths if I had to, but I still would not like it.
Comment by Kathleen Stevens — December 7, 2005 @ 10:46 pm
Thanks Bill for the Discretion part of the puzzle. Now for the A! And Kathlen, I forgot to mention FNU LNU because I never forgot it. For those who might have forgotten, it stood for “first name unknow”, “last name unknown”. And I might have used Clicka instead of Klicka. Not sure which is correct. And they were indeed good days. Come on someone with the missing “A”. I suppose the compass/map course has been replaced with the GPS/map course. The photography course lead to a life long hobby.
Comment by Dan Egan — December 10, 2005 @ 10:25 pm
Dan, it just stands for “and”. Morals and Courage. Type in LIDMAC on google and you will find quite a bit of INFO.
Comment by bill — December 12, 2005 @ 10:08 pm
Bill. Thanks, now I can rest.
Comment by Dan Egan — December 19, 2005 @ 9:59 am
Came to Holabird in 1964 (June or July) for the Interrogator course after half a year as a straight leg in the 5th Inf Div at Ft Carson, a year in Nha Trang and Kontum, and a year learning Russian at the Presidio of Monterey. Ended up in a Border Resident Office of the 511th MI Co in Germany which turned out to be a dream assignment (about 100 miles from the headquarters, civilian clothing allowance, off-post offices and quarters, etc., etc.) Holabird was fun, but I never did adjust to the summer “aroma.” Kept in touch with two classmates for many years, but have long since lost contact. Enjoyed this site immensely. Thanks!
Comment by Jack — January 25, 2006 @ 9:45 pm
This was fun reading everyone’s memories of Ft. Holabird. Took a similar bus trip in Dec. 1968 from Ft. Dix, arriving in Baltimore after midnight, and no one in Baltimore knew where Holabird was. The cabbie claimed he didn’t know where it was and stiffed me for a $10 ride after he finally “found” the place. Who could forget the Holabird Inn (I had forgotten all about those great cheeseburger subs). The folks who ran the place were great people. I’ll never forget the jukebox there which showed pics of scantilly clad women as the records played (was new to me being from Maine!). Was in the 97C course from March 69 thru July 69 (Agent Handler course). So many of us there we had to hang around from December to March waiting for a class to open up. My kids today still ask me what it was like to be a “spy.” Went from there to DLIWC in Monterey, CA for Vietnamese language school for a year and then for a year in MI stationed at Bien Hoa Army Base in RVN.
Comment by Larry Hamilton — January 31, 2006 @ 4:35 pm
Last communication back aways(2004). Hope I can answer some of your questions from at least the mid-1950’s. The eatery outside the main gate was the Liberty at that time. The infamous Keystone was up the street. Squires up and across and the sub-place, whose name I can’t recall, on the corner. The Headquarters company commander was a Captain Thomas Evans and his exec a Cpt. Ansumea(?). The 50’s where a little more (not much though) Army than what came later and permanent staff experienced a little more b.s than trainees but nothing compared to Fort elsewheres. The interesting part of Holabird is the high level of education of our mostly draftee and enlistee privates and specialists(lawyers, ma’s, ph.d.’s, etc). I was assigned to training aids (whatever in the hell that was). Every six months they trucked us out to Meade to requalify on some M1’s they had somewhere. This shot our Saturday (oh what suffering and bitching that caused) We lived in bays in the big bldg in back of Furlow field. We were truly a company of smart-asses, cynics, misfits and general malcontents but I am sure we all were thankfull we didn,t really have to play soldier despite all our bitching. We had two generals (one at a time) a Boniface Campbell(sounds civil war) and then a Richard Gaither (both Brigidiers). Most Fridays at about 4:30 we marched in review behind our awful band who seemed to know one song, Colonel Boggies(?) March.
Class A, no rifles. KP and guard occasionally (Ml’s without ammunition, they didn,t trust us). Many more memories and details but I don’t want to bore you more than I have.aplpreciated hearing from anyone from the 50’s and thanks for your site.
Comment by manfred(manny)adler — March 1, 2006 @ 4:48 pm
Jim.
Two questions: How do I get to your site without going through google and have you changed your e-mail address (the old one is returned)?
Comment by Manny — March 8, 2006 @ 10:59 am
Maude Klecka, FNU LNU, A-F 1-5, LIDMAC. Just like old times. I was in Klecka’s last class, before her retirement, hers and the Underwoods! Did a stint at Holabird to become a CI Agent in ‘70, with interrogator for good measure. Then off to the 902nd, 113th and finally CICV. Wasn’t the sub place named something like Harley’s? What was the name of the bar right outside the main gate? Holabird Inn? Who else was DAME & DASE trained? Some talents are never lost! 97B40A
Comment by Lon Schank — March 14, 2006 @ 8:05 am
I was with Dick Goniu’s class in Sep 66…see his post above…I had a candy apple red 1969 Olds Super 88 convertible since I was from Philly, not too far from Balmer. Took a photo of my car under “Big John’s Place”, made my car look about 1/2 scale!
I dated a gal from Northern Pakway area who was a sophomore at Eastern HS for a long time, she sent me DJ while in Nam. Met up with her again last year in DC…glad I didn’t marry her!
My favorite eatery was the Gino’s with KFC on the road to Sparrow’s Point…best burgers in the world! Stopped there every Sunday night on the way in from Philly.
Went to DLI Viet at Biggs Fld, then to 525th then to Co A 519th MI Bn, worked at CMIC.
I have stayed in touch with a half-dozen or so of the guys in the 96B & 96C classes in the fall of 1966. Some guys are famous (?) such as Sandy Chadwick who is a radio reporter for NPR out in CA and Mike Landrum who as an actor, starred in a soap opera called “How To Survive a Marriage” in the 70s or 80s as well as numerous TV commercials (Horizon coffee, also some antacid…maybe Riopan?). Also one guy, who shall remain nameless at this time, ended up as a big shot with the Company. He is retired now.
If someone were to e-mail me I would be happy to discuss a reunion of sorts we are planning for 2007, which is approx 40, yes forty yeas ago!!!
Comment by Joseph Lachowiec — March 23, 2006 @ 4:36 pm
Your site brought back great memories. I was at Holabird from March thru June 1967, in 97D class. I remember that 33 of the 34 students in our class went to Vietnam together! I had the same shock when I arrived at Holabird. Got there on a Saturday night and got up at 5am Sunday morning assuming it was the same routine as boot camp. A drunk private came stumbling in the barracks and told me to go back to bed. It was a great time!!! Thanks for the memories!
Comment by Ron Seacrist — March 24, 2006 @ 3:47 pm
Good stuff. I was there both as an inmate and a keeper from about April 66 to Jan 69.
Would like to hear from anyone who was in DODNACC or USAINTC during that period. I served
as BG Blakefields driver and gofer for about a year. Note to Craig Anderson: I was there
in Chicago during both riots (TDY) and would like to contribute. I can be reached at:
wgriffith2220@charter.net
SP5 Ronald Wayne Griffith, USAINTC
“first member of my family to serve in the Yankee army since reconstruction”
Comment by Wayne Griffith — May 15, 2006 @ 3:24 pm
Testing……1, 2, 3.
Comment by Jim — August 29, 2006 @ 7:06 pm
NOTE: Manny (Manfred) Adler has posted comments here bofore (see: 2/12/04, 3/1/06, and 3/8/06), but for reasons I cannot figure out yet, he is unable to leave a comment here.
Anyway, he is interested in knowing about any reunions and such. In addition, if any of you can help figure out why he is having trouble commenting here (I don’t think my spam filters are flagging them), please try to help him.
His e-mail address is Ma1936@aol.com
Thanks,
Jim - Parkway Rest Stop
Comment by Jim — September 2, 2006 @ 12:40 pm
Jim:
Thanks and let’s see if this shows up.
Comment by Manny Adler — September 8, 2006 @ 2:36 pm
Arrived Jan.6,1966 after basic,I also was amazed at how Holibird was run. Was there from Jan till Apirl 66. I went through the 96B20 & 96C20. Started snowing the 6 of January. Did not see ground till some time around of March. Remember bus loads of nursing students on Friday night for Dances. Went to Ft.Bragg and from there to Vietnam with the 519th BN. Served there from July 66 till July 67. Spec5 Donald R. Stacks
Comment by Donald Stacks — September 16, 2006 @ 11:47 pm
Boy, Sawyer sure turned around from the jerk to a seemingly likable guy. And I think him and Kate will be having a baby soon :).
Comment by mr skin — October 7, 2006 @ 2:21 pm
Someone said that this post was not accepting comments. Just wanted to check.
Jim
Parkway Rest Stop
Comment by Jim — December 19, 2006 @ 11:06 am
Checking again to make sure the comments are working.
Jim
Parkway Rest Stop
Comment by Jim — March 27, 2007 @ 7:57 pm
Jim,
Testing if this one works.
Manny
Comment by manny — March 31, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
Jim,
Thanks and yes it works. Manny
Comment by manny — March 31, 2007 @ 6:29 pm
Does anybody have pictures of Ft Holabird? Could you post them on line or send them to me in an e-mail? Thanks, Bill
Comment by bill leach — April 28, 2007 @ 12:54 am
Bill,
Perhaps this may help you in your quest.The U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (if this is indeed still the official designation) at Fort Belvior, Virginia (assuming it is still located there) published a book back in 1993 titled THE MILITARY INTELLIGENCE STORY: A PHOTOGRAPHIC HISTORY. This book contains a few photos of Ft. Holabird (pages 24 and 46).
this source may know of some other archival materials. If you should find any I suspect myself and others would apreciate that information. Best of luck in your search.
Comment by manny — April 29, 2007 @ 11:03 am
Manny, thanks for the info. I just found an aerial photo from the 60s. (it must be before 1965 because I can’t see the swimming pool that was there when I was in 1965-1968). You can see it at:
http://www.hughcox.com/holabird.htm
Thanks again and I will keep you posted.
Comment by Bill — May 27, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
After leaving basic training at Ft. Knox in August 1968 I boarded a flight from Louisville, Ky. to Baltimore, Md. and Ft. Holabird. On arrival the smell of Colgate creek and the humid August heat of Maryland are still branded into my memory.
I was about to begin my training as a 96b20, intelligent analyst or so I thought. It seemed I had just missed the start of a class; another class would not begin for almost a month. So, it was work details and the infamous weekly KP duty.
Once school began life got better, passing class was in the forefront of everyone’s mind. Some passed, others did not.
Once school was over all graduates except one received orders to Vietnam, “the one” received orders for Hawaii.
Vietnam orientation began on Saturdays in the movie theater, followed with combat training at Ft. George Meade.
From August 68 to late Nov. 68, life at Holabird was liveable. It was an experience of learning and many practical jokes with shave cream, shoe polish, tooth paste, short sheeted bunks; to wet bedding in the cold Baltimore fall mornings.
An enjoyable site to relive old memories - no regrets.
Comment by Gregory M. Virginia — June 3, 2007 @ 12:04 pm
Bill:
The swimming pool if my memory is still relatively intact was there in the mid 50’s. It was in the vicinity of the officer’s club and off limits to peons. I recall a chain link fence and sqeals of children and teen laughter but that is as close as we ever got. It was on the way to the dental clinic (speaking of ambivalence).
Comment by manny — June 6, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
Manny, the pool I am talking about would be all the way to the left in the picture. There also was a bowling alley next to the pool and that is not in the picture either.(did you see the picture)? I do remember the pool at the Officers club.
I just noticed the date of your last comment, June 6th. That is the date I left Ft Holabird for the last time, June 6, 1968.
Comment by bill — June 13, 2007 @ 10:51 am
Bill,
Do not remember an elisted pool or bowling alley and did not take the photo interpretation course though ran many a thermofax overlay (does this date me or what?) during night shift at training aides (or is it aids, the disease or the assistants?). oh well! I find this site fascinating since it is the first cantact in lo these many years. I guesss we did exist.
Manny
Comment by manny — June 13, 2007 @ 7:20 pm
Bill,
I just noticed the June 6th comment. D-day, what a coincidence. Manny
Comment by manny — June 13, 2007 @ 7:21 pm
June 6th 1968 is also the day RFK died.
Comment by bill — June 13, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
Bill,
What a coincidence!
Comment by manny — June 14, 2007 @ 5:41 pm
I was there Jan. 65 to July 65. Took the basic INTC course and then 9666. I was assiigned to HQ, Region I of the 113th in Chicago. Holabird was a country club after nine weeks at Ft. Benning and the training was outstanding. Anyone recall the field excercise at the old coastal artillery fort in Baltimore harbor.
When I got theChicago, I scoped cases for three months and then went to the Fifth Army Field Office in Hyde Park. I was a door knocker for four m onths and then took over at SAC. I had two E-2’s, 2 DAC’s and an E-6. I have a vague recollection that one of the young guys was named Anderson but things are a little foggy after all these years. One of the DAC’s was named Lynch and knew where every street address in Chicago was w/o looking at a map. My E-6 was an old timer named George Choi and I wish I could tell him just how much I appreciate all he did for me. We did BI’s for the most part, but had several derogatory investigations and did security penetration efforts for the Nike sites along the lake front. It was good duty and I worked with some very bright and motivated guys. The Head of the region was Col. George Paddis.
Comment by Bill Yantis — July 2, 2007 @ 3:13 pm
Did anyone serve in the “old 109th CIC Detachment in C
Cleveland, Ohio?
Bill Yantis: The “old coastal attilery fort in Baltimore harbor” is a new on for me. The only one I recall is the Francis Scott Key one of “Star Bangled Banner” fame, never knew their was another.
Comment by manny — July 7, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
Really enjoyed reading all the comments above. However, was not a student at Holabird, but actually permanent party assigned to HHC-USAINTC (not intel “S”chool, but “C”enter) from 2/23/63 thru 9/3/65. Started out in pay records where I processed incoming students, both enlisted and officer for their pay vouchers. A special shout-out to Capt Rakov, M.D. who thanked me for my assistance by giving me a permanent profile so I didn’t have to to PT or KP for the rest of my duty time. After spending about 9 months in Pay Records, my section sgt. John Davis got PO’d with me for taking an extra day off after an extra-painful double extraction and told me to report to my CO after I got off quarters. The CO decided he needed an OJT cook in the consolidated mess, so he put me there where I lasted about a year as a glorified KP. Then, thanks to SP/5 Gary Doyle, the Co Morning Reports clerk, I was “paroled” into the orderly room to learn the MR job so I could replace Gary when he ETS’d. A real cushy job from 6am to 2pm. Of course, then we got a new First Shirt who thought I should work until 5pm just like everyone else (didn’t matter that I started 3 hours earlier than everyone else). That was George “Mr Clean” (cannot remember his last name). He had been the manager at the NCO Club and was very well liked in that position. After he became 1st Sgt, he did a 180, becoming a real jackass. After about 6 months of Mr. Clean, I was requested away from HHC staff to Troop Command to become a titless wac (clerk typist) under Col. Jerry Wimberly and S/Maj Floyd Sampson and, of course, Mrs Ortelt — the Col’s secretary (it seems as if SHE ran the office). While there I finally got my E-4 specialist bird (quite overdue). A lot of you students there in late 1964 and into 1965 may have come across me as the Troop Command clerk that assigned you to your daily assignments while you were waitiing for your classes to start. Those of you that were the non-bitchers got the plum assignments and those picked at the end of the round (the bitchers) got the worse assignments. Well, my 3 years came to an end on 9/3/65 and I left Holabird — but didn’t go too far as I had fallen in love with a “local girl” and Baltimore and stayed until 1980 when I moved back to my home state of Florida. Now, 27 years later, I am dreaming of one day soon returning to Baltimore — actually Dundalk where I plan to retire and live out my remaining years. It appears that Dundalk is experiencing a resurgence and regrowth. I, too, miss “Harleys”, “Squires” and the night club up the street where they had a live band nightly known as “The Punchanellos”. Seems as if Wednesday nights were 50c nite with all well drinks at 50c each. Boy, could you get a buzz for $5 back then.
If any of you readers were there during ‘63 to ‘65 and remember your “casual duty assignments” waiting for your classes to start or were there as permenant party, get back with me at my email address of “tneuman@aaasouth.com”. I would love to hear from you.
Comment by Tim Neuman — July 9, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
Tim:
Enjoyed your recollections, the first, I think, of someone who was permanent party. The “Bird” (a name we never used, only students left with that nickname for the place, was a very different place for transients and permanent “inmates.” We did the grunt work along with our specialties and bitched comensurately. You were just a bit after my time. The nightclub may have the Keystone or perhaps it had changed names by then?
Comment by manny — July 11, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
Wow, the memories. Just stumbled into this site. I graduated 97D20 at Holabird in January 1967. Do you remember doing the surveillance training in downtown Baltimore and the locals yelling out, “He went that way!” Then there was The Block. . .’nuf said. I went on to the Field Support Group in D.C. –civilian clothes, light cover, paid apartment, suburban office. Great duty. Then off to Vietnam. First MACV then levied to 5th SFGA. Almost 40 -FORTY - years ago.
I came to this site as I’ve been trying to track down any more info about the 525th MI Group Villa that was overrun in Hue during TET. Anyone with any info please contact me. Thanks for this site and the memories.
Comment by Greg Taylor — August 10, 2007 @ 1:34 am
Manny of the 109th. We had a field problem involving “pacification” of a population after the Infantry had swept through. It was held at a coastal artillery fort, one of several that ringed harbors in major cities on the seacoast. The ammunition bunkers were very large and flooded. We were supposed to locate and identify contraband and secure intel from “civilians” played with fiendish delight by permanent party troops. Can’t recall the name of the place but it was not Ft. McHenry. If Craig Anderson checks back here (he had an entry a couple of years ago) give me a signal. I think you were one of my agents when I was SAC in Chicago. Of course, the mind does play tricks on one.
Comment by Bill Yantis — September 1, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
Bill Yantis:
The 109th was the Cleveland,Ohio detachment. I was permanent party at Holabird. No idea where your “pacification” occured. Rings no bell. It might have been one of the Nike sites? Hope you hear from Craig.
Manny
Comment by manny — September 5, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
Drafted July 1968; basic Ft. Bliss; Holabird Oct.1968-Mar. 1970,with language classes (French and Vietnamese) at Meade.
Comment by Michael B Lee — September 26, 2007 @ 3:53 pm
I was stationed at Holabird the first time from May - Oct 1963 as a student in the Coordinator Course. Returned as permanent party in Dec 1966 and stayed until Dec 1968. I was assigned to the FTX Committee during that period. Comment #60, Bob Scharbert was there at the same time. FInished the 97B and Photo Course while assigned. Went on to Vietnam after that tour.
Comment by F. Don Clifton — November 16, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
Interesting piece on fort hunt and p.o. box 1142 in today’s local paper. May be of interest to some of you in the interrogation area.
Comment by manny — January 11, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
I came to Holabird from basic at Ft. Jackson…by train. My first week there is pretty foggy; all I remember is being sick as a dog from the flu or something. They moved me to “casual company” where I stayed for what must have been at least 3 months [September ‘67 - January ‘68]. What a trip! I recall the guys in charge were Walshak(sp?) and Ferenzak(sp?)…shades of Sgt. Bilko. After graduation from 96D2T (II), I think my whole class ended up in ‘Nam.
Comment by JosephHill — February 25, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
Someone asked about the “casual company”. Permanent party were assigned to Headquarters company but placed on details such as moppping until “cleared” for their permanent assignments. I ended up under a Corporal Weeks (a real gem of a “soldier type”) mopping floors, but only briefly due to the fact that nobody seemed to know that I was there for a week or so, so simply wandered the base and slept in empty barracks (some security). Did not really appreciate how unmilitary Holabird was. Really lucked out after Knox and Gordon.
Comment by manny — March 2, 2008 @ 10:16 am
Any one who spent any time at Fort HaHa will remember this place. It was the Holabird Inn, now it is the Travlers Lounge.
http://maps.live.com/localsearch/Details.aspx?what=Bars%2c+Grills+%26+Pubs&where=7200+Sollers+Point+Rd%2c+Dundalk%2c+MD+21222&tab=photos&lid=YN405×7373072&qt=yp&cobrand=1&FORM=LLDP
Comment by bill — March 6, 2008 @ 11:13 pm