February 17, 2003

Fort Holabird or the Twilight Zone?

Filed under: Uncategorized — Jim @ 7:11 pm

The trip from Fort Dix to Baltimore lasted approximately three hours. It had occurred to me that it was the first time in eight weeks that I actually was sitting in a relatively comfortable seat. In basic training, there are virtually no chairs. True, one sits in training rooms and in the mess hall, but those chairs are built for function, not for comfort. Sitting on a bunk is just not the same as sitting in a real chair. I wonder if today I would find a seat on Greyhound bus quite as wonderful as it seemed then.

More importantly, however, the trip meant three hours alone – away from other soldiers and drill sergeants for the first time in more than eight weeks. It had been easy to forget that the world did not stop at the Fort Dix gates, but rather it was humming along quite nicely. The tiny island of civilian life on the Greyhound bus gave me three hours to stare out the window and think about the past eight weeks, about my life prior to those eight weeks, and how strange it seemed that things I had nothing to do with and had no control over placed me on this bus headed south to some damned place no one seemed to know anything about.

Once in Baltimore, I dragged my jam-packed duffel bag off the bus, and asked a few people where I could catch the bus to Fort Holabird. One person said, “I heard of Fort Meade, but I really don’t know anything about Fort Holabird. Are you sure you don’t mean Fort Meade?” A couple other people were equally as ignorant about Fort Holabird. I thought Christ, these people live here, and they never heard of the place? What the hell…??? Finally, I asked the information person at the bus terminal, who mercifully knew what bus I should take to get to this mystery military post.

Shortly thereafter, duffel bag and I boarded the local bus that would take us to the base. I asked the bus driver to let me know when we got to Fort Holabird. “No problem,” he said. I was more than a little relieved to confirm that I was on the right bus and that the driver actually knew where the damned place was. The uniform again provoked stares, smiles and glares from the other passengers. By this time, I was becoming accustomed to it. Besides, I was tired, and I just wanted to get to wherever the hell I was supposed to be.

“Here’s the base, son,” the driver said, as he stopped the bus by the gate, in front of a guardhouse. I struggled with the duffle bag down the bus aisle and thanked the driver as I turned to step off through the bus doors. As I got off the bus, I was horrified to see an MP (military policeman) looking at me and walking at a brisk pace from the guardhouse in my direction. Oh hell. Here it comes. He was a tall, staff sergeant, the same rank as my drill sergeant. I didn’t think it possible, but the MP looked even more frightening than the drill sergeants I had just spent eight weeks with. He was wearing the white MP helmet and a black MP armband. His trousers were bloused over his spit-shined airborne boots, and he wore a 45 semi-automatic sidearm. I braced myself for what I was certain would be a ration of shit about something or other I was not doing right.

Before I could say that I was reporting for duty (that’s what one is supposed to say), he said, “Hi. You need help with that bag?”

I said, “Pardon me?” What did he say??

He repeated, “How ya doing? You look like you could use some help with that bag.”

I was speechless. I could only nod my head in the affirmative, something that would have unleashed a torrent of invective from a drill sergeant about the importance of “sounding off like you got a pair!”

The MP looked at me for a moment, and I thought, OK, let the hollering begin. He didn’t holler; He said, “You look beat,” and he effortlessly tossed my duffel bag over his shoulder and carried it to the guardhouse. He set it down and asked, “Where on the base are you headed?” Still in shock, I told him that I had no idea where I was headed. I just knew that I was ordered to come here. He smiled – he actually smiled – and said, “No problem. Let me take a look at your orders.”

He took a quick look at the orders and said, “O.K. The building you have to report to is about a quarter mile down this street on the right side – big brick building – you can’t miss it. When you get there, ask for Sergeant Perez. He’ll get you squared away.”

I thanked him and began walk in the direction he had indicated. The MP shouted behind me, “Wait!” I thought, OK, I knew that this was too good to be true – this must be some kind of trap. Now, the hollering will begin.

I turned in his direction and said, “Yes?”

He said, “It’s really too far for you to walk with that bag. I’ll have someone drive you.” OK, Jimbo, this must be some kind of a Twilight-friggin’-Zone thing. There is no way that white-helmeted, bloused-trousered, pistol packin’staff sergeant MP just said that he would get me a ride because it was too far for me to walk with a heavy bag.

But, that’s what he said.

The MP got on the phone, and in a minute or two a corporal appeared in an Army car and said, “You the guy who needs a ride? Hop in.”. During the short ride to my destination, I couldn’t think of anything to say to the corporal, other than to thank him for the lift. “Here’s the barracks building” he said. “Sergeant Perez should be in the orderly room. He’ll check you in.”

I found the orderly room, and, just as promised, Sergeant Perez was there. He was a sergeant-first class (three stripes up and two rockers). Again, I found myself thinking that it was absolutely impossible for a sergeant-first-class to be anything other than mean and ornery. When I entered the room, breathless from having lugged the bag up the stairs, Sergeant Perez looked up from the papers on his desk, and said, “Yes? What can I do for you?” Wait a minute. This is the way civilized people speak. Sergeants don’t talk this way. What in Christ’s name is going on here?

“I’m reporting for duty, sergeant.”

“Oh, you must be one of the new students. You’re a little early, but that is not a problem.” Did he say “students?”

I could no longer contain myself. I blurted out, “What is this place?”

“You don’t know?” the sergeant said.

“No I don’t, and I have not been able to find anyone who knows anything about this place.”

“This is the United States Army Military Intelligence School.”

I stood there in silence trying to process it all. After a few seconds, I asked, “What will I be doing here?”

“Let’s take a look at your orders, and we’ll see.” I handed him my orders, and he said, “You are a 96C. You’re an interrogator.”

“An interrogator?” He remained patient, despite my stupidly repeating everything I had just heard.

“Yes, that’s what a 96C is. I also see that you speak German.”

“Well, I took the German test. How can you tell from looking at the orders that I speak German?”

The sergeant explained, “It says that your MOS (military occupation specialty) is 96C2L29. The “96C” tells me that you are an interrogator, and the “2L29” tells me that you speak German.” I couldn’t help thinking back to that miserable bastard at Fort Dix who tried to intimidate me into not taking the German test. (see 1/3/03)

The sergeant, still looking at my orders, continued, “Oh, now I know why you might be a little puzzled by all this. I see that you are a draftee. We don’t get many draftees. Most guys enlist in order to get into Military Intelligence and they know in advance what it is all about.”

“Well, it’s close to the end of the work day here, so let me get you some bedding and show you to the barracks.” Hold it. A sergeant-first-class is going to get my bedding and show me to the barracks? People in hotels show you to your room. People in the Army don’t show you to your room. Twilight Zone….definitely.

He emerged from another room with sheets, a pillow and a blanket, and walked me down the hall to a large bay area, with approximately twenty double bunks on each side of the room. Lockers ran down the center of the bay. “I believe you’re the first one here, so you can pick your spot. Make up your bunk, and stop by the office when you’re done to pick up some forms.”

I made up the bunk on autopilot and emptied the contents of my duffel bag into my locker. It was all still too much to think about. When I finished, I reported back to the orderly room.

Sergeant Perez handed me a couple forms, and said, “Fill these out when you have a chance. We’ll need them next week.” He took out a map of the base, and circled things like that mess hall and the PX (Post Exchange – i.e. the store). He said, “I think you may have missed dinner at the mess hall, but you can get a burger or something at the PX.” A burger? I can eat by myself? I can go to a store? And, I’m not being hollered at?

“Thanks, that sounds great,” I said, beginning to actually speak to Sergeant Perez as if he was a regular person.

“So, what are your plans for the weekend?”

“Pardon me? My plans?”

“”Yeah, are you going to hang around the base? You could go into Baltimore. You could go to D.C.”

“You mean that I can leave the base when I want?”

“Sure. Just be back here by 7 o’clock, Monday morning. That’s when we start the classes.”

‘You mean I can go home for the weekend, if I want?”

He smiled and said, “That depends on where you live. I don’t think going to California would make much sense. Where do you live?”

“New Jersey,” I replied.

“That’s no problem. The buses run regularly between Baltimore and Newark.”

Absolutely stupefied, I said, “Please forgive me. I just want to make sure that I understand. I just checked in here, and I can turn around and go home for the weekend, if I want?”

“That’s right. Just be back by Monday Morning.”

“Do I need a written pass or anything?”

“Nope. Not necessary. Do you have civilian clothes with you?” Did he say civilian clothes? Where’s Rod Serling?

“No. We weren’t allowed to have civilian clothes at Fort Dix.”

“Well, you may want to bring some back with you from home. You only have to wear your uniform during duty hours. Unless you have some kind of extra duty, civilian clothes are fine around here after duty.” This cannot be.

Perez continued, “If you have no further questions, I’m going to hit the road. See you Monday morning. Have a nice weekend.” And he left.

I sprinted to a pay phone to call my family and girlfriend to breathlessly tell them I was coming home. “Are you in trouble?” my mother asked. So did my girlfriend. I promised I would bring them all up to date when I got home.

A few hours later, I found myself back on the Greyhound bus, this time heading north. I wondered how the cosmic cards fell such that I ended up being selected by be trained as an interrogator. Had some of those psychological profiles we took identified me as a latent knuckle-breaker? I reasoned that the job of an interrogator is to question prisoners of war, and the only place I could think of that would have a supply of prisoners of war was Vietnam. Was this a good thing? All this was happening way too fast. I would wait until Monday to think about being an interrogator.

All I knew was that I was going home for the weekend and that for the first time in months I felt just a little bit like a human being.

3,542 Comments »

  1. Enjoyed your site. Brought back memories of my posting back in 1955(spent entire time at Ft. Holabird-55 thru 57)with the Headquarters Company.

    I assume you were there during the Vietman era? It had its share of chickenshit, but nothing like basic or advanced. Thamks for bringing back some memories.

    Comment by manny adler — February 12, 2004 @ 6:54 pm

  2. My dad was stationed at Ft. Holabird mid-50’s to 1963. I had no idea it was military intelligence. Yes, he spoke German, In fact his father was Italian (from Mass.) and mother German. He also married a German lady. Can you tell me anything more about what was done there? Where would I find out on his discharge papers or whatever what his actual job description was? Is there anyone who was stationed there (like Manny) who would have known? Folks have been dead for years – they destroyed almost all photos from childhood and ALL papers of any kind including personal letters before they died. Not one piece of paper left in house other than Dad’s discharge and a few photos from pre-war Germany. Thank you very much – any help greatly appreciated. E-mail address is case-sensitive – be sure to use caps, etc. where needed.

    Comment by Brenda O'Connor — March 9, 2004 @ 6:11 am

  3. Manny Adler – This is one of those “Do you know?”. I attended the agents course starting 2 Jan. 1956 and then assigned to Korea. Only one guy in our class didn’t get a TS clearance because he was a Fullbright scholar in England. Supposedly he was assigned to Hq,Holabird which didn’t make sense to me. What a golden opportunity to learn agents names. He was from Kansas City and I never thought that I would forget his name. He was a nice guy and married. Any remote possibilities that you might have run on to him. Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — May 8, 2004 @ 9:10 pm

  4. My dad attended the agent handlers course at Fort Holabird in the late 1950s, in fact duing the 1958 NY Giants- Baltimore Colts world championship. He returned for refresher training prior to going to Viet Nam in 1966. Does anyone remember him, his name was Norman J. Melody? Does anyone have any photos of Fort Holabird?

    Comment by Paul Melody — September 2, 2004 @ 9:39 am

  5. My dad was stationed at Ft Holabird after returning from Germany 1955-1956. He was an MP and said the base was pretty desserted when he got there. He doesn’t remember a lot of details but does have few stories to tell. I am retired USAF, Oct 1994.

    Comment by Phil Kindel — October 2, 2004 @ 2:23 am

  6. Trying to do some research for a “memoir” I’m writing. I spent 3 months at Ft. Holabird, Jan thru Mar 1969, training at the school as 96D! I think. That’s a “clerk typist with top secret clearance.” Then off to Saigon for 1 1/2 years. So, where is Holabird in relationship to Baltimore? I don’t remember and can’t find it on the map. Anyone remember?

    Comment by Chris Abel — November 12, 2004 @ 11:12 pm

  7. I believe that it was in a place called Dundalk (sp?), a short bus ride to Baltimore. I believe we were there about the same time.

    Comment by Jim - Parkway Rest Stop — November 13, 2004 @ 2:55 am

  8. I was at Holabird from sep 65 to jun 68. It is in Dundalk, part of Baltimore county.I had the same shock of going from basic training at Dix to the freedom of the Bird. During the build-up for Vietnam, everyone assigned to a school was “frozen” (code 9). They didn’t want to slow the flow of new people to Nam so they didn’t want to change the personel responsable to keep the flow going. I was a 97D.20, intelligence coordinator, assigned to S2 (personnel security) we issued and validated security clearances for in-comeing students and permenent party personnel. I spent many a night(too many) across the street at the Holabird Inn. Thanks for the memories!

    Comment by bill leach — November 21, 2004 @ 12:28 am

  9. I was quite suprised to find a website of people who have actually heard of Ft. Holabird, much less stationed there. I was assigned there out of Ft Dix from Nov. 1967 thru the spring of 1968. I trained as a 96D2T, Imagery Interpreter, TIFF qualified. After that, I was with the 1st MI Btn in DaNag for a year. After that, I was with the 15th MI Btn at Ft. Bragg.

    Comment by Stephen D Griffis — December 1, 2004 @ 11:11 am

  10. If you went to school in 1967, I issued or validated your security clearance and checked you in on your first day.

    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — December 1, 2004 @ 10:56 pm

  11. I enjoyed reading your story and everyone’s comments. My grandfather was stationed and died at Fort Holabird while in the Counter Intelligence Corps in the late 1940’s after WWII. There was a hall dedicated in his memory there. It was Hubbard Hall. Does anyone remember it? I am actually trying to find if the building or the dedication plaques still exist. I would love to find it for my grandmother. She will be 85 years old in a few weeks! Any comments would be appreciated and enjoyed.

    Comment by Maria Franco — December 7, 2004 @ 9:18 pm

  12. A group of us transferred from Fort Knox to Fort Holabird after basic training in 1956. Most of us were draftees and were taking the Counter Intelligence Course for typists as it could be done in the 2 years we would spend in the army. I remember ‘marching’ my group to the mess hall before we found what a heaven Fort Holabird was. Though I thought we would go to Korea, most of my group went to Europe. I was very lucky to be sent to France where I spent my time at a field office in civilian clothes! I have fond memories of Fort Holabird.

    Comment by Louis J. Maher — December 15, 2004 @ 6:05 pm

  13. This is great, folks who know about Ft. Holabird (USAINTS). I was sent there directly after basic training at Ft. Lewis, Washington in late 1969. I too experienced the culture shock of going from concentration camp basic training to the laid-back Ft. Holabird atmosphere (don’t you dare salute anything lower than a General, and don’t march, just walk).

    I was trained as a 96DT, Aerial Imagery Interpreter. After that, a number of us were also sent to an advanced Aerial Imagery Interpretation course combined with an NCO academy. We graduated at Spec. 5 level.

    Most of that class went from there to Viet Nam, but 6 of us had order changes at the last minute and were sent to the 502nd MI Battalion in Seoul, Korea. Best time of my life.

    Comment by Richard Lovelace — December 29, 2004 @ 12:51 pm

  14. I served with the 1st MI Btn (ARS) in Vietnam in 1970-71 with 3 months in Danang, 3 months in Nahtrang, and 6 months in Pleiku. Flew U-6A Davilland Beavers. We were the “Pleku Good Guys”. Flew I and II Corps daily delivering intel pictures.

    Paul F. Webb, CW3 Retired

    Comment by Paul F. Webb — January 12, 2005 @ 11:10 pm

  15. Great story site. I share many of your memories, I too went from DIX to Holabird and Bill you must have checked me out. In fact you must have found a problem as they claimed to have lost my personnel records about the time the rest of my Class shipped out to Vietnam or Korea as a 96D. I spent the next 3 months as CQ working nights for Cpt. Doyle Smith. Oh well it gave me the opportunity to one very cute School Teacher at “The Keystone”. The Teacher eventually became my wife. Anybody else remember this cool bar with the hot chicks and how bout “Summer In The City – Lovin’ Spoonful – 66” and the Legendary Jim Palmer and Johnny Unitas what a sports town.

    From there I went on to 502nd with Gen. Bonesteel’s 8th and some of my former Classmates. My most memorable memories were working with Sharon Tates father Maj.Frank Tate and our shops involvment with the “Blue House and Pueblo Incidents of 68”. I have also managed to communicate with a few of my old mates from there.

    Keep the site up

    Jon Tallman

    Comment by Jon Tallman — January 13, 2005 @ 10:26 pm

  16. What great memories….Ft. Holabird…I liked it so much I went twice. In 1966, right after basic at Ft. Polk, LA. I went to Holabird to become an Analyst (96B),,on to Ft. Bragg for some interesting times and then SVN for a year. Back to Holabird for CI Agent class then the 113th MI Gp in Chicago. 1968 Dem National Convention…good times had by all. A little more work in CONUS..and then an offer I couldn’t refuse….I’ll tell that one later.. Anyone who may have been in the same places at the same time,,shoot me an email..

    Comment by Jerry Race — January 28, 2005 @ 3:39 pm

  17. I did the ‘Bird ‘ before Berlin

    and again before the Nam. She taught me well

    I am home again.

    ljk

    Comment by ljklaiber — February 1, 2005 @ 6:38 pm

  18. Hi, Wow, didnt know the “fort” was still there. I was part of the permanent personnel there in 1955-56..Medics… Worked in the laboratory. drawing blood, making slides etc and then as an assistant in the dental clinic. Were about 5 dentists there. One was a woman dentist who had been in a concentration camp and had the number tattooed on her inner wrist. Was a colonel in charge(Rudisill?) who was also a dentist..I “retired ” from the Army in april 56 but not before being transferred to the MPs there. At the time it was called CIC school and kind of “hush hush”.. memories,,Thanks for the site..

    Comment by Bob Nargi — February 19, 2005 @ 4:06 pm

  19. I was one of four guys who were photographers at Ft. Holabird during 1954 and 1955. It took four of us to relieve one guy who had numerous duties. I, too, was surprised at the freedom we had, particularly considering the security of the place. Not bad duty, but I was delighted to be discharged.

    Comment by Charlie Larus — February 24, 2005 @ 6:26 pm

  20. Fort Holabird is no longer there. It was deactivated in the 70’s, I believe. The Army Intelligence unit was moved to Arizona, to be closer to Barry Goldwater. My father enlisted there and was stationed there in 1955-57 (second and third grades for me) and again in 1960 (6th grade). I remember staying at the Reception Center (I’m not sure of the name) for about 2 weeks when we moved to the area. We had lots of great times at the Officers pool.

    Comment by Jonathan T. Kurtz — February 27, 2005 @ 11:26 am

  21. I enlisted to be an Order of Battle Analyst in late 1968, after basic at Ft. Jackson, myself, Walter “Hap” Farrell, and Brian Landry, the latter from Weston and Marlborough Mass. respectively, I was from Framingham, Mass, we found ourselves at Fort Holabird in early January 1969. We attended and graduated from the R-12, Intelligence Analyst Course and were awarded the military occupational specialty (MOS) of 96B10. All three of us went summarily to Vietnam, as Male 96B’s did in those days. Four WACS in the class all went to Germany, one male went to Germany also, the rest to Vietnam. I remember the 1,2,3 club, other students, Rocco Nudo, Ceasar Rosales, Nick Pappas, Bob Rheiner, and a confusing world at a very confusing time in history. Most of us went to the 525 M.I. Group in Vietnam, some to 5th. Group, 25th. Infantry, and other derivative units. I am now retired after a 30 year Army career and am still serving in the intelligence career field as an instructor. When I retired I was the last active duty still-serving soldier in the intelligence corps who was a Fort Holabird Graduate. Anybody who remembers me, or a fellow classmate, please make contact.. Best to all.. Jeff Gallant

    Comment by Jeffrey Gallant — March 11, 2005 @ 5:47 pm

  22. I was there. There where a lot of us that started class for 96D2T in December of 1969. I was the only one to come from Fort Bragg, NC And when I came back from Christmas leave I drove my 1958 Cady lemo. Made a few trips with it, even to Boston. It was the best time of my 2 years 6 months and 5 days of active duty. While in Danang Vietnam I worked with many guys that had gone through there and a few more after while stationed in Fort Hood, TX.

    Comment by Richard Rauenhorst — March 13, 2005 @ 1:01 am

  23. The Army sold Fort Holabird to Baltimore City for $1. It has subsequently been parceled out and redeveloped into a business/industrial park. With the exception of a VFW Post, the only building that remains is what is known locally as the old DIS building. It is located on Van Deman Street and is scheduled for demolition within the year. This building was supposedly a school of some sort at one time, including mock villages behind it. There is a wonderful piece of marble/granite on the floor of the main entrance to this building complete with a logo. The new owners of the property plan to salvage this section of the floor and incorporate it, in some way, into their new building. Call it a tribute. While the Fort may be gone, one small piece will live on.

    Comment by vzeeec9d — March 18, 2005 @ 11:11 pm

  24. LOOKING FOR ANYONE WHO MAY REMEMBER MY UNCLE,ROBERT HANSEN SFC, HE WAS AT HOLABIRD 1N 51-52. SERVED A TOUR IN KOREA AND ALSO VIETNAM 67-68.THANKS

    Comment by BILL BERGHOLM — March 19, 2005 @ 3:54 pm

  25. I was in the 96B class at “Holabird-on-the-Colgate” from January-April of 1965, then off to Region I of the 113th MI Group in Chicago where I worked as an agent until 1967. I’d like to hear from anyone from that era as I’m writing a book on the stateside role of the 113th MI during the riots of 1967.

    Comment by Craig Anderson — March 24, 2005 @ 12:11 am

  26. -Looking for anyone who may have known my father-in-law, Robert Andrew (Bob) Balog. He was at Fort Holabird in late 1970. Thanks!

    Comment by Leslie Balog — April 15, 2005 @ 12:59 pm

  27. Anybody attend image interpretation school in 1968 and later assigned to the 45th Spt. Co. or CICV in Vietnam? All I can remember is the Arbys roast beef joint outside the front gate.

    Comment by David Driscoll — May 2, 2005 @ 5:40 pm

  28. I have almost the same memory and perspective as you did from back in 1968. I completed Basic at Ft Dix in June and took the bus trip to Balitmore like you. However, I was to become a 96B20 (intelligence analyst)I went through the same confusing reorientation interactiong with people other than Drill Sargents. After arriving at Ft Holibird and finding out that I could get home to Massachusetts every weekend of the summer by taking the bus to Newark Airport and a short hop to Logan I was elated. Alas by October 0f 1968 I was headed overseas where the odessey continued.

    Comment by Ted Williams — May 3, 2005 @ 12:09 pm

  29. Father spent career in CIC, and retired from Holabird in ’61. His file is as thin as a recruits after 23 years of assignement.

    Comment by rinehart — May 3, 2005 @ 12:47 pm

  30. I too have fond memories of the Bird and the aroma of Colgate Creek. I was there in 1963, then to Bragg, then Korea, then Viet Nam, where after about 6 months I reunited with many of my friends from Bragg (but they came to me).

    Back then, the really nice thing about our line of business was there was hardly any where you were assigned that you didn’t find at least one person you knew. Baker, French, Martin, Coogar?

    Comment by Paul D. Melton — May 3, 2005 @ 6:32 pm

  31. David Driscoll, the beef place outside the main gate was Harleys. They were famous for the Harley Burger, it was beef patties smotherd in onions. The other corner across from the main gate was the Holabird Inn. I spent many a night there for three years, 1965-1968, then stumbled to Harleys for a Harley Burger Sub.

    Comment by bill leach — May 3, 2005 @ 10:48 pm

  32. USAINTS 67-T-5 and 68-TA-1 96D2T RVN 1968-69 1st MIB(ARS) HHC at 121 Chi Lang St. in Gia Dinh/Saigon and 45th MID(ARS) later re-named Det. E at Hue/Phu Bai. Back to USAINTS in ’69-’70 as instructor and as Tac. NCO for the advanced II and NCO course. Spent many an evening at the Holabird Inn where they made very good cheeseburger subs. and at the Greek place a block or so on down Holabird Ave. Anyone remember Lts. Fitch and Frick? Better known to us as Frick ‘n Frack.

    Comment by John Nichols — May 14, 2005 @ 12:27 am

  33. I arrived at the “Bird” just ahead of a 100 year snowstorm in January of 66. I came from sunny California and suffered the same experience about where Holabird was, at the airport. Finally a guy from Arizona approached me and offered to share a cab as he was going to Holabird as well. The first few months at the “Bird” were an experience to say the least. At that point the place was overbooked. The barracks were stuffed with four times the personnel they were designed to handle. The gym was filled with bunks stacked 3 high. Every available space was used for housing. Then school started, in double shifts. My class went from 0600 to 1200, with another right behind us. I was one of those clerks with a top secret clearance, a 97D20 I believe. After school was done I got assigned to Holabird. Permanent Party there was a good deal, except for one thing, the first sergeant…….aka: The Tank. He would roust late sleepers for police call on the weekends. My cube-mate and I bailed off the second story balcony once to avoid him. I worked at the 1-2-3 club to make some extra $$$ and became kinda popular for being able to pour the tallest beers, a reputation that followed me all the way to Nam. Part of my time at Holabird was about as Un-military as one could imagine, but I for one, would not have changed a thing. Does anyone know of any posted pics of Holabird in the 60’s??

    Comment by Ray Bosnich — May 25, 2005 @ 10:38 am

  34. I arrived at Holabird from Fort Lewis in late Sept. of 66 and did the image interpretation course. It was culture shock, Holabird was great and I too remember the old Holabird Inn. Baltimore or “Balmer” as the locals called it was a fun place. All of us from our class shipped out for TIFF training at Ft. Myers and then on to Bragg and the 15th MI. I transferred over to the 14th MI and worked in supply for CONTIC until I was sent to Vietnam and the 73rd Aviation Company in Vung Tau.

    Comment by Jim Shoop — May 25, 2005 @ 12:25 pm

  35. I grew up in Dundalk and lived just outside the Ft. My first job, in 1959, was at the Officers Club doing janitorial work and helping set up many functions and Friday Night Happy Hours. I met many of the army brats living there and use to hang out at the pool next to the Officers Club and then they built a new pool up on the hill by the old tank track and ball fields. Use to walk through Cummings Apartments to get to work. It would be nice to connect with any kids who grew up there in the late 50’s.

    Comment by Gary Clelan — June 6, 2005 @ 10:54 pm

  36. I arrived at Ft. Holabird in Sept. of 1967 after basic training at Ft. Campbell Kentucky. Even before I started my Area Studies training–actually the first night I was there–a couple of us newbies headed downtown to the notorious “Block.” Didn’t even change out of our uniforms. Joined up with the 6th Batallion, Special Ops, of the 525 MI Group in Saigon after graduation from USAINTS. Later, went back to the Bird as an instructor in the Area Studies Practical Applications Dept. Lots of drunken nights at the Holabird Inn and the Keystone.

    Comment by D. Morin — June 28, 2005 @ 9:13 pm

  37. I wanted to add that last Sept. I visited Baltimore for the first time since leaving Ft. Holabird in 1970. Stayed at the Sheraton near the Inner Harbor but took a taxi to the old Ft. Holabird site which is now an industrial park. The buildings where the Holabird Inn and the Keystone are still there though appeared closed. Anybody remember Squire’s Italian restaurant near the corner of Holabird and Dundalk? Still there and greatly enlarged. Other than that, the surrounding neighborhood seemed to have gone down hill considerably from 1970. I’m sure the Army installation provided a lot of money to the area. There really is nothing left of the old Ft. Holabird in the industrial park that I could see. Overall, I had a ball at the place and surrounding area when stationed there.

    Comment by D. Morin — June 29, 2005 @ 8:38 pm

  38. Eurika! A Fort Holibird site. I did two training at Fort Holibird. 97D20 MI coordinater and 97B40 Counter Intelligence Agent In 69 and 71. Have never met anyone else from Holibird since then. Lived in the WAC shack so know about the odor or Colgate Creek. Worked at H&H company as a Coordinator. Got sent to Saint Louis Mo to the DODNAC center as an Agent.

    Comment by Kathleen Stevens — July 5, 2005 @ 4:13 pm

  39. Did 97B and then 97C training at ‘the Bird’, in the late ’60’s enjoyed your rememberances. I will tell you my own briefly. Upon arriving at Holibird after Basic, and having my first meal at the mess hall.

    Having my first meal in 8 weeks in leisure. I had baked halibut. Being from west Texas, I had never had it before, but due to the wonderful memories it brings back, it remains one of my favorite dishes

    Comment by A. Robertson — July 5, 2005 @ 6:19 pm

  40. I remember I enlisted in March 1966, I went to basic at Fort Knox, signed up for OCS and they sent me to Fort Ord, California for 11B10 training. Just before finishing 11B10, I found out that I was being sent to Fort Sill, OK for Artillery OCS and I would be a Forward Observer. Having a desire to have a chance in living, I dropped my orders for OCS and they sent me to Fort Holabird for 96B20, Intelligence Anaylst Training. We had a mixed class of Marines and Army. We had a Marine Master Sgt. It was good times. I remember going to a movie and us laughing at James Bond. I was sent to Fort Bragg, we called ourselves the lost 11. I was a desk analyst for Israel and Jordan, wrote these strategic analysis books. Gave out bagels and lox during the 67 war. Everyone went to Vietnam except me, I was sent to Seoul Korea, worked in the War Room 8th Army, I was the NCOIC. Very interesting work.

    Comment by Joel Storchan — July 6, 2005 @ 3:13 am

  41. I was at the “Bird” in 1968. It was a great experience except when the booze plants smoke stacks lit up. Anyone remember the name of the sandwich place across from the front gate?

    Comment by Chris Sawyer — July 6, 2005 @ 9:39 pm

  42. What the heck were the “booze plants smoke stacks?” I think the sub shop was called Harley’s or something like that. A much better sub shop was located near the corner of Holabird and Dundalk–think it was called the Village Subs. On the way back from the Keystone we would stop there for a hamburger sub, eat it on the way back, and then throw up on the railroad track. Doesn’t get much better than that.

    Comment by D. Morin — July 7, 2005 @ 9:14 pm

  43. It was Harley’s. They were famous for Harley_Burgers. Three hamburger patties in a sub roll, smothered in onions (I’m getting hungry)! Even better, was the holabird Inn on the other corner!!!(I’m getting thirsty)!

    Comment by bill — July 7, 2005 @ 11:02 pm

  44. Fort Holabird, the most unmilitary post in the Army. I went through the agent’s course (97B) in the fall of 1964. Mostly I went through lots of beer at the Holabird Inn. There was a girl who played piano there in the fall of 1964. Our class were regulars there and often joined in and sang with her. She was a sweetheart to tolerate a bunch of drunk agent wannabees. Wonder whatever happened to her?

    Went back to the ‘Bird in fall of 1966 for 97C training but was older, wiser and married.

    Mostly I remember the actors in the glassed-in classroom. And that damn bouncing bridge between the barracks and the classroom building. We used to march in step to see how high we could bounce it. Great times.

    Comment by Rogers — July 9, 2005 @ 8:22 am

  45. I remember the interminable time spent in casual company in 1968 and the “ole Sarge” who doled out the work assignments. I caught a good one as a driver until my 97C class started in July. Many good memories inspite of the rather alarming odor wafting from Colgate creek. As I recall, “Hey Jude” covered the airways.

    Comment by Gary halgunseth — July 13, 2005 @ 6:39 pm

  46. Graduated from the I.I. Course (I still have my diploma), 14 Feb-67 signed by Col.Richard S. Smith, Commandant and Major James Hess. Lucked out and went to SETAF Aviation Co. in Italy, not before getting stuck in casual company. (guys waiting for their class to begin and other waiting to ship out) they line you up in the A.M. and give out B.S. duties for the day. After

    two days of not calling my name – I walked around the Fort all day, till the EM club opened.

    They did things 1st class at the ‘bird’ I still have a formal Invitation for the 1966 Thanksgiving Day Dinner.

    “Consolidated Mess 136″, with a message from Col. Smith on one side and the menu on the other.

    They even took the class to Aberdeen Proving Ground for a day, and sent us to Ft. Myer so we

    could tour the Pentagon. What other Post hands out ‘Day Trips”?.

    Great Fort, Great bunch of guys.

    Comment by Steve Sisco — July 15, 2005 @ 9:50 am

  47. Great to read the rememberances here. I was a 96D2T II and I showed up in Jan.1969. My welcome experience was very similar, the CQ sent me down to Casual Company (I think this is where John Dean served his Watergate Sentence)and the first guy I met was Paul Benoit. He asked me what my school was and when I told him I was an II he said,”You’re going ta Nam, all the 96 Deltas do…”. I had just come off Christmas leave and my orders had me reporting on 12/31 which I recall was a Friday night. The CQ told me to get lost until Monday if I wanted to, but I didn’t have the money to go back home to Connecticut so I just hung out. I think I was in Casual for about a week and then we were assigned to a school. We were the PM class which ran from noon to 6PM. That was great because we didn’t have to get up until 9:00AM. I really liked my time at the Bird and I was hoping that I could get back there after I did my time in Nam (1st Mibars Det B in Danang 5/15/69-4/15-70)but no such luck, I went to the 66th MI Group in Munich (that is a whole other talk show). Benoit and I were assigned to Det B as “brothers” but he was killed by a Marine who was stealing his jeep about half way through our tour.

    Our Bay in Building 36, as I recall, was a small one that looked out at the Railroad tracks that ran through the post. On Friday nights we would watch as the new guys would arrive by bus from Dix and Basic. We got the idea that they needed some discipline so I dressed up as a Drill Corporal, I had a Smokey Bear hat and I was an acting jack squad leader so I would go down and meet the bus and dole out the standard ration of harassment that these poor souls were all expecting. I would bark at them trying to scare them into thinking that Basic was a picnic compared to what they were in store for at the Bird! Because they were all expecting this very treatment they were only too obliging. I don’t know why I didn’t get punched out when they saw me around post in the weeks following when they realized how civilized the Holabird experience was.

    Remember the Friday night cattle shows at the 123 club? My memory is very dim from those days but I remember going to them and watching some of my classmates getting drunk and dancing with girls they would never approach under any other circumstances. Dancing to “Crimson and Clover” by Tommy James and the Shondells God it was pretty lame.

    I really had a good time, made great friends, and learned a lot there and then when we graduated from II school they sent us over to Ft. McNair for a week’s TDY at the Behavior Research Lab in DC. We were asked to read out photos in the AM and then we were out on the town during Cherry Blossom time from noon on. It was a nice way to leave for Nam.

    Comment by magaremko@comcast.net — July 15, 2005 @ 9:05 pm

  48. Gosh…Holabird. Certainly remember dinners at Hausner’s and evenings at the Acropolis. I went through the 9668 course in 1963/1964 and from there on to the 502nd in ROK. Crossing the Colgate on the way to lunch…what a way to kill an appetite. For a number of summers in the late 1960’s and into the the very early 1970’s I took summer vacations at Ft. Holabird…2 to 4 week stints as part of the residency portion of the Carrer Course one does as a reservist. Colonel Sheldon the foreign area intellignece school man at Holabird when I was there and my Bn.CO in ROK. Fun times.

    Comment by E. Herrick — July 21, 2005 @ 1:37 pm

  49. STATIONED AT HOLABIRD END OF 1958 TO MARCH 1959….TOOK THE AGENTS COURSE AND WOUND UP IN BAD KISSINGEN,GERMANY AFTER A SHORT STAY IN WURZBURG. HAVING GONE THROUGH BASIC AT FORT BENNING,GEORGIA,HOLABIRD WAS ONE HUGE AND VERY POEASANT SURPRISE.

    Comment by RICHARD A. PROSS — July 27, 2005 @ 2:12 pm

  50. Arrived at Ft. Holibird September 1966 after basic in Ft. Lenordwood, Missori. Original orders were for advanced training as a Battle Order Specialist (trained in viewing photos with the magnifying glass on a small stand above photos taken from the air). One cool fall morning we were lined up during morning muster, they called out names. 13 of us lucky devils were called out. We were advised that we were going to get some additional advanced training, another 13 weeks “Prisoner of War Interrogator.” Note the number 13? This was a guaranteed trip to Nam. My best memory of Holibird was the weekends, usually Friday or Saturday night, about 1:30-2:00 AM some guy would go to Harleys and bring back one of their famous sandwiches. The smell would wake up everyone in the barricks and off we would all go and get our own. Seemed to be a weekend tradition. I was with the 9th Division Military Intelligence unit in the Mekong Delta. Finished my last time at Ft. Bragg at the new training school set up there to train replacements in 1968.

    Comment by Richard Goniu — July 28, 2005 @ 12:23 am

  51. I was in the agent class fall of 1963, then to the 108th in New England. After mostly doorbell ringing, promoted to civilian. After myriad of adventures, moved back to teach college (and write my book—go to dailybard.com) and joined MIANE, the local CIC old farts association, which meets monthly, and even gave a presentation ot two. Plan to visit Baltimore in October when in DC for the AFIO meeting.

    Comment by Philip Madell — July 29, 2005 @ 5:41 pm

  52. I am writing a book on the CHUSA activities in the late ’60’s. Any of you who were involved in CHUSA in those days, I would really appreciate hearing from you. You will of course be well cited. Thanks.

    Alan

    Comment by Alan Robertson — August 2, 2005 @ 1:47 am

  53. I too was struck by the relaxed atmosphere of Holabird immediately upon arriving in July of 69. The group that accompanied me and I had just finished basic at Fort Ord. After traveling all day we arrived sometime after midnight on a Sunday morning and were told to show up for classes on Monday. I remember the guy who checked us in saying that we weren’t going to believe how different our treatment would be at Holabird compared to the treatment we had been subjected to in basic. I was skeptical at first, but by Monday morning I knew what he was talking about. It was almost like being in college again.

    Near the end of my 96B Intelligence Analyst training several classmates and I were selected against our wishes (I had orders for Germany)for the first 96B NCO Academy because they could not get enough volunteers to fill the class. I seem to recall there were only a handful of applicants. The Major in charge of the program assumed that there would be such an overwhelming response to participate that he had prepared to interview candidates. There was not, and we were all required to interview. It turned out to be an absurd situation as it became a “reverse” interview, with the interviewees doing their best to present themselves as unqualified or emphatically resistant to being selected. I guess my orders to Germany were a convincing argument against my selection, however two of those who had been selected had their top secret clearances come through and I was chosen to replace one of them. I completed the course and ended up as a much resented “shake and bake” E5 with the 4th MI Co of the 4th Infantry Div. in Vietnam.

    Other memories of Holabird: the old gymnasium and handball court; the infamous “Block” of downtown Baltimore; great polish sausage sandwich served in the E4 and above(?)Club.

    Comment by Mike Luckey — August 5, 2005 @ 10:24 pm

  54. Best 6 months of my life, followed by the worst year(Nam)in the 45thMI CICV at Ton Son Nut. I was there mid 65 to early 66. Spent weekdays with the nurse students at the hospital then weekends back in the bronx. Anyone at the compound at Long Bin.

    Comment by Bob Marold — August 17, 2005 @ 3:44 pm

  55. Wow…not even sure how I stumbled in here but it’s great! I arrived at Holabird in March or April(?) of 1966 for 96 Delta training. I believe we were the first TIFF qualified class. Fond memories of soft-shell crab subs from the place down the street, and hazy memories of puking my guts out somewhere near the creek after a night at the 123 club. I recall seeing the movie “the Ipcress File” at the post theater and wishing I had signed up for Agent School instead.

    One Marine in our class had a wicked habit of waiting ‘till a payday Saturday night and covering the urinals with Saran-Wrap and taping a Playboy pinup at eye level. Around midnight when the guys came staggering in to take a leak before crashing, their attention was on the pinup, not where they were pissing….you’d hear a rata-tat-tat splashing sound and then a loud SON-OF-A-BITCH!!! from the latrine.

    After training at the ‘Bird, I was sent to the 15th MI Bn at Ft. Bragg…God, what a pit compared to Holabird. The 15th MI was basically a holding tank for our MOS and all we had was sh*t duty like shoveling coal and painting barracks. Got so bad that I asked to be assigned to a unit in Nam, but then some Black Suits from the Pentagon showed up at morning formation and asked for five 96D volunteers for an unspecified TS project and my hand shot up….anything would be better than Bragg. Got lucky and spent the next two years at Redstone Arsenal, R&D Directorate, working on a real-time aerial recon project that never got off the ground.

    Thanks for the site & the memories!

    Comment by John Wallis — August 21, 2005 @ 2:55 pm

  56. Accidentally stepped into this site. Thanks for setting up.

    Started at Ft Benning 2 days after college graduation. From Benning I caught an allnight train through the North Ga Mountain and Appalacians…great ride and finally slept until sunrise and stopped at Baltimore. After basic training did not know what to expect…knew no one there either and also remember lugging that ugly green duffle on a Baltimore city bus to Ft Holabird. Man what memories…vagly remember the Harley restaurant and barely remember a swinging bridge…but strongly remember the building where the Jeep (GP) was designed. Forgot the name of the stinky creek but after hearing Colgate Creek it brought back memories.

    In my case I was stationed in barracks with a bunch of routy Green Berets. We had a mystery man there that in the middle of the night (after heavy drinking)would rest his forehead on the side of a top bunk and take a leak on the person the bottom bunk…when the person on the bottom bunk screamed or yelled the Green Beret would run away…after 3 or 4 weeks of this they finally caught the guy who was having a drinking and sleep walking disorder but knew he was guilty when the yells woke him up…

    Never forget watching Boog Powell (first baseman for the Baltimore Orioles)hit one in to the second level seats. At 21 yrs old my first major league baseball game.

    After a real education at Ft Holabird I spend 1 day leaning how to pick locks at the Pentagon. I was there when we landed on the MOON and as a country boy from Georgia that had never left my state except for Florida on vacations, I decided to do something special on the day of the landing on the Moon. Went to the DC to the Aerospace Museum to sit underneath the Wright Brothers Plan…as I waited for the Lunar Landing, sitting directly underneath the Wright Brothers plan, a secret service agent walked up and ask politely if I would mind giving up my seat. I did and seconds later the Vice President Spiro Agnew and Astronaut Frank Borman took my seat (couch) and watched the landing on the Moon as I stood in the background on national television. My 15 minutes of fame.

    After Ft Holabird I was bound for Fort Shafter, Honolulu Hawaii. What a great 1 and 1/2 year tour of duty. The military intelligence technology at Ft Shafter still today amazes me. Finally my last year was spent at Binh Wah (spelling?) at Trac III Headquarters.

    Went back to Baltimore to find Ft Holabird about 5 years ago, found Dundalk, and from a friend later found Ft Holabird was shut down in 1973 and sold to a developer. Condo’s and or apartments there.

    Would love to hear from Dennis Torrey (MN), Roseboro (NC) or anyone else at Ft Holabird. Most people at Ft Shafter in Hawaii were from Ft. Holabird.

    Ed Haley

    EHaleyCMT@comcast.net

    Comment by Eddie Haley — August 24, 2005 @ 8:33 pm

  57. Enjoyed reading all the comments. Brought back alot of memories. Was at Ft. Holabird from October 1966 – April 1967. Then to Vietnam for the next 31 months.

    Comment by Jeff Reif — August 26, 2005 @ 2:02 am

  58. Enjoyed the trip down memory lane. Was at Holibird High from Sept. 64 to Nov. 64 96B class.

    From there to Ft. Eustis to a Transportation Intel. Det. and then MACV. The 123 club, the subs, and friday beer parties behind the barracks, all great memories.

    Comment by Ed Speakman — September 1, 2005 @ 9:27 am

  59. After language school (Vietnamese) at DLI – El Paso, I was at Holabird for Combat Intelligence training in late 1970. In January 1971, I was assigned to the Combined Intelligence Center, Viet Nam (CICV).

    Comment by Ed McCoin — September 21, 2005 @ 1:00 am

  60. Was stationed at Holibird from ’64 thry ’67 as S/A and Instructor on the FTX Committee. Anyone from that era and duty, please contact me.

    Comment by Bob Scharbert — September 27, 2005 @ 8:52 pm

  61. I came upon this by accident! I was stationed at USAINTS from July 18 1969 to September 14 1969 (approx).

    I was a 96B20 and was a member of the WAC. I have been trying to find Cheryl Muto — she was stationed there also — would love to talk to her.

    Yes, I remember the Colgate — smelled like apricot pits (cyanide???).

    After Holabird I was stationed at the Presidio of San Francisco, another abandoned post.

    This was fun. Enjoyed reading it.

    Comment by Brenda Cates Kilby — September 28, 2005 @ 1:12 pm

  62. Brenda: I spoke with Cheryl Muto (Clyde) last week. She lives in Wisconsin and I bet would love to talk to you.

    Comment by kathleen Stevens — October 15, 2005 @ 1:00 pm

  63. This is absolutely wonderful!!! Only someone who knew her well would remember her as “Clyde!”

    Would also like to know whatever happened to Kathy Irish, my roomate at Holabird.

    And if anybody knows whatever happened to Rose, somebody buy her a drink!!!

    Comment by Brenda Cates Kilby — October 16, 2005 @ 8:46 pm

  64. I knew a Rose, at Holibird, but can not think of her last name. The one I knew was gay, got outed, so married a young Marine she had just met, to counter the “gay” charge, and was given an honorable discharge all within a 7 day time frame. The young Marine sat in the Wac Shack charge of quarters room for a long time waiting for her, before he finally gave up. As far as I know he never saw Rose again, and neither did any of the rest of us. Rose did like to Party!

    Comment by Kathleen Stevens — October 26, 2005 @ 8:53 pm

  65. Entered Army through Ft Holabird Rep Station in Mar 65. Came back to 97B course after Basic at Ft. Jackson. Was deverted to 97D after waiting 8 wks. Classes held above 123 Club, HOT. Finished course, went to Art OCS (Dec 66)and then assigned to NSA, Came back and took the 666 course, went to VN and came back to MI Advance Course at Holabird (70). A lot of good times. DAME Course, Photo Course, The covert truck that broke down in the city and hauled back to Post with Army Wrecker. Taking covert pictures of diners in the revolving resturant, catching the 668 trying to infiltrate into Philadelphia. Yes,those were the days.

    Comment by John Major — November 1, 2005 @ 2:56 pm

  66. I went to the Holabird School for Wayward Boys in 1962 in the Agents course. Most amazing group of instructors and perm party. I had a couple of languages and wound up living in the proverbial “Interesting Times”.

    When I wound up active duty my security debriefing took 2 1/2 hours while they reminded me of all the things I was supposed to forget. Civilian clothes and very little chicken exhaust.

    Comment by Michael Woodill — November 1, 2005 @ 10:47 pm

  67. Did basic training at Ft Dix August 1961 ( E Company under Lt Wiggins with Sgt Turner )Then by bus to Ft. Holabird for the agents course with a mixed bag of “troopers”. Remember typing with “click along with Mrs. Clicka” and running around tunnels with empty .38 2″ revolvers.
    When taught background investigations we were instructed to cover LIDMAC, i.e., loyalty, integrety, ?, morals, ? and character. For the life of me I can not remember the D and A. Does anyone remember? Lived in Towson at the time so commuted. Ended up in the reserves witht he 224th MI detachment in Willow Grove, PA. Summer camps at Ft. Meade and Camp Drum.

    Comment by Dan Egan — December 6, 2005 @ 9:55 am

  68. The “D” in LIDMAC stood for DISCRETION!

    Comment by Bill Leach — December 6, 2005 @ 10:12 pm

  69. Dan: I remember “Ma Clicka”. She could teach anyone to type, even me, allthough I insisted it was against my religion! She held a world record as the fastest typist! I can’t remember D&A infact I had forgotton LIDMAC all together. But I remember FNU LNU and A thru F 1 thru 5 clasification system for informants. I could still do back asthmiths if I had to, but I still would not like it.

    Comment by Kathleen Stevens — December 7, 2005 @ 10:46 pm

  70. Thanks Bill for the Discretion part of the puzzle. Now for the A! And Kathlen, I forgot to mention FNU LNU because I never forgot it. For those who might have forgotten, it stood for “first name unknow”, “last name unknown”. And I might have used Clicka instead of Klicka. Not sure which is correct. And they were indeed good days. Come on someone with the missing “A”. I suppose the compass/map course has been replaced with the GPS/map course. The photography course lead to a life long hobby.

    Comment by Dan Egan — December 10, 2005 @ 10:25 pm

  71. Dan, it just stands for “and”. Morals and Courage. Type in LIDMAC on google and you will find quite a bit of INFO.

    Comment by bill — December 12, 2005 @ 10:08 pm

  72. Bill. Thanks, now I can rest.

    Comment by Dan Egan — December 19, 2005 @ 9:59 am

  73. Came to Holabird in 1964 (June or July) for the Interrogator course after half a year as a straight leg in the 5th Inf Div at Ft Carson, a year in Nha Trang and Kontum, and a year learning Russian at the Presidio of Monterey. Ended up in a Border Resident Office of the 511th MI Co in Germany which turned out to be a dream assignment (about 100 miles from the headquarters, civilian clothing allowance, off-post offices and quarters, etc., etc.) Holabird was fun, but I never did adjust to the summer “aroma.” Kept in touch with two classmates for many years, but have long since lost contact. Enjoyed this site immensely. Thanks!

    Comment by Jack — January 25, 2006 @ 9:45 pm

  74. This was fun reading everyone’s memories of Ft. Holabird. Took a similar bus trip in Dec. 1968 from Ft. Dix, arriving in Baltimore after midnight, and no one in Baltimore knew where Holabird was. The cabbie claimed he didn’t know where it was and stiffed me for a $10 ride after he finally “found” the place. Who could forget the Holabird Inn (I had forgotten all about those great cheeseburger subs). The folks who ran the place were great people. I’ll never forget the jukebox there which showed pics of scantilly clad women as the records played (was new to me being from Maine!). Was in the 97C course from March 69 thru July 69 (Agent Handler course). So many of us there we had to hang around from December to March waiting for a class to open up. My kids today still ask me what it was like to be a “spy.” Went from there to DLIWC in Monterey, CA for Vietnamese language school for a year and then for a year in MI stationed at Bien Hoa Army Base in RVN.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — January 31, 2006 @ 4:35 pm

  75. Last communication back aways(2004). Hope I can answer some of your questions from at least the mid-1950’s. The eatery outside the main gate was the Liberty at that time. The infamous Keystone was up the street. Squires up and across and the sub-place, whose name I can’t recall, on the corner. The Headquarters company commander was a Captain Thomas Evans and his exec a Cpt. Ansumea(?). The 50’s where a little more (not much though) Army than what came later and permanent staff experienced a little more b.s than trainees but nothing compared to Fort elsewheres. The interesting part of Holabird is the high level of education of our mostly draftee and enlistee privates and specialists(lawyers, ma’s, ph.d.’s, etc). I was assigned to training aids (whatever in the hell that was). Every six months they trucked us out to Meade to requalify on some M1’s they had somewhere. This shot our Saturday (oh what suffering and bitching that caused) We lived in bays in the big bldg in back of Furlow field. We were truly a company of smart-asses, cynics, misfits and general malcontents but I am sure we all were thankfull we didn,t really have to play soldier despite all our bitching. We had two generals (one at a time) a Boniface Campbell(sounds civil war) and then a Richard Gaither (both Brigidiers). Most Fridays at about 4:30 we marched in review behind our awful band who seemed to know one song, Colonel Boggies(?) March.
    Class A, no rifles. KP and guard occasionally (Ml’s without ammunition, they didn,t trust us). Many more memories and details but I don’t want to bore you more than I have.aplpreciated hearing from anyone from the 50’s and thanks for your site.

    Comment by manfred(manny)adler — March 1, 2006 @ 4:48 pm

  76. Jim.
    Two questions: How do I get to your site without going through google and have you changed your e-mail address (the old one is returned)?

    Comment by Manny — March 8, 2006 @ 10:59 am

  77. Maude Klecka, FNU LNU, A-F 1-5, LIDMAC. Just like old times. I was in Klecka’s last class, before her retirement, hers and the Underwoods! Did a stint at Holabird to become a CI Agent in ’70, with interrogator for good measure. Then off to the 902nd, 113th and finally CICV. Wasn’t the sub place named something like Harley’s? What was the name of the bar right outside the main gate? Holabird Inn? Who else was DAME & DASE trained? Some talents are never lost! 97B40A

    Comment by Lon Schank — March 14, 2006 @ 8:05 am

  78. I was with Dick Goniu’s class in Sep 66…see his post above…I had a candy apple red 1969 Olds Super 88 convertible since I was from Philly, not too far from Balmer. Took a photo of my car under “Big John’s Place”, made my car look about 1/2 scale!

    I dated a gal from Northern Pakway area who was a sophomore at Eastern HS for a long time, she sent me DJ while in Nam. Met up with her again last year in DC…glad I didn’t marry her!

    My favorite eatery was the Gino’s with KFC on the road to Sparrow’s Point…best burgers in the world! Stopped there every Sunday night on the way in from Philly.

    Went to DLI Viet at Biggs Fld, then to 525th then to Co A 519th MI Bn, worked at CMIC.

    I have stayed in touch with a half-dozen or so of the guys in the 96B & 96C classes in the fall of 1966. Some guys are famous (?) such as Sandy Chadwick who is a radio reporter for NPR out in CA and Mike Landrum who as an actor, starred in a soap opera called “How To Survive a Marriage” in the 70s or 80s as well as numerous TV commercials (Horizon coffee, also some antacid…maybe Riopan?). Also one guy, who shall remain nameless at this time, ended up as a big shot with the Company. He is retired now.

    If someone were to e-mail me I would be happy to discuss a reunion of sorts we are planning for 2007, which is approx 40, yes forty yeas ago!!!

    Comment by Joseph Lachowiec — March 23, 2006 @ 4:36 pm

  79. Your site brought back great memories. I was at Holabird from March thru June 1967, in 97D class. I remember that 33 of the 34 students in our class went to Vietnam together! I had the same shock when I arrived at Holabird. Got there on a Saturday night and got up at 5am Sunday morning assuming it was the same routine as boot camp. A drunk private came stumbling in the barracks and told me to go back to bed. It was a great time!!! Thanks for the memories!

    Comment by Ron Seacrist — March 24, 2006 @ 3:47 pm

  80. Good stuff. I was there both as an inmate and a keeper from about April 66 to Jan 69.
    Would like to hear from anyone who was in DODNACC or USAINTC during that period. I served
    as BG Blakefields driver and gofer for about a year. Note to Craig Anderson: I was there
    in Chicago during both riots (TDY) and would like to contribute. I can be reached at:
    wgriffith2220@charter.net

    SP5 Ronald Wayne Griffith, USAINTC
    “first member of my family to serve in the Yankee army since reconstruction”

    Comment by Wayne Griffith — May 15, 2006 @ 3:24 pm

  81. Testing……1, 2, 3.

    Comment by Jim — August 29, 2006 @ 7:06 pm

  82. NOTE: Manny (Manfred) Adler has posted comments here bofore (see: 2/12/04, 3/1/06, and 3/8/06), but for reasons I cannot figure out yet, he is unable to leave a comment here.

    Anyway, he is interested in knowing about any reunions and such. In addition, if any of you can help figure out why he is having trouble commenting here (I don’t think my spam filters are flagging them), please try to help him.

    His e-mail address is Ma1936@aol.com

    Thanks,
    Jim – Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — September 2, 2006 @ 12:40 pm

  83. Jim:

    Thanks and let’s see if this shows up.

    Comment by Manny Adler — September 8, 2006 @ 2:36 pm

  84. Arrived Jan.6,1966 after basic,I also was amazed at how Holibird was run. Was there from Jan till Apirl 66. I went through the 96B20 & 96C20. Started snowing the 6 of January. Did not see ground till some time around of March. Remember bus loads of nursing students on Friday night for Dances. Went to Ft.Bragg and from there to Vietnam with the 519th BN. Served there from July 66 till July 67. Spec5 Donald R. Stacks

    Comment by Donald Stacks — September 16, 2006 @ 11:47 pm

  85. Boy, Sawyer sure turned around from the jerk to a seemingly likable guy. And I think him and Kate will be having a baby soon :).

    Comment by mr skin — October 7, 2006 @ 2:21 pm

  86. Someone said that this post was not accepting comments. Just wanted to check.

    Jim
    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — December 19, 2006 @ 11:06 am

  87. Checking again to make sure the comments are working.

    Jim
    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — March 27, 2007 @ 7:57 pm

  88. Jim,

    Testing if this one works.
    Manny

    Comment by manny — March 31, 2007 @ 6:25 pm

  89. Jim,

    Thanks and yes it works. Manny

    Comment by manny — March 31, 2007 @ 6:29 pm

  90. Does anybody have pictures of Ft Holabird? Could you post them on line or send them to me in an e-mail? Thanks, Bill

    Comment by bill leach — April 28, 2007 @ 12:54 am

  91. Bill,

    Perhaps this may help you in your quest.The U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (if this is indeed still the official designation) at Fort Belvior, Virginia (assuming it is still located there) published a book back in 1993 titled THE MILITARY INTELLIGENCE STORY: A PHOTOGRAPHIC HISTORY. This book contains a few photos of Ft. Holabird (pages 24 and 46).
    this source may know of some other archival materials. If you should find any I suspect myself and others would apreciate that information. Best of luck in your search.

    Comment by manny — April 29, 2007 @ 11:03 am

  92. Manny, thanks for the info. I just found an aerial photo from the 60s. (it must be before 1965 because I can’t see the swimming pool that was there when I was in 1965-1968). You can see it at:

    http://www.hughcox.com/holabird.htm

    Thanks again and I will keep you posted.

    Comment by Bill — May 27, 2007 @ 8:31 pm

  93. After leaving basic training at Ft. Knox in August 1968 I boarded a flight from Louisville, Ky. to Baltimore, Md. and Ft. Holabird. On arrival the smell of Colgate creek and the humid August heat of Maryland are still branded into my memory.

    I was about to begin my training as a 96b20, intelligent analyst or so I thought. It seemed I had just missed the start of a class; another class would not begin for almost a month. So, it was work details and the infamous weekly KP duty.

    Once school began life got better, passing class was in the forefront of everyone’s mind. Some passed, others did not.

    Once school was over all graduates except one received orders to Vietnam, “the one” received orders for Hawaii.

    Vietnam orientation began on Saturdays in the movie theater, followed with combat training at Ft. George Meade.

    From August 68 to late Nov. 68, life at Holabird was liveable. It was an experience of learning and many practical jokes with shave cream, shoe polish, tooth paste, short sheeted bunks; to wet bedding in the cold Baltimore fall mornings.

    An enjoyable site to relive old memories – no regrets.

    Comment by Gregory M. Virginia — June 3, 2007 @ 12:04 pm

  94. Bill:

    The swimming pool if my memory is still relatively intact was there in the mid 50’s. It was in the vicinity of the officer’s club and off limits to peons. I recall a chain link fence and sqeals of children and teen laughter but that is as close as we ever got. It was on the way to the dental clinic (speaking of ambivalence).

    Comment by manny — June 6, 2007 @ 5:16 pm

  95. Manny, the pool I am talking about would be all the way to the left in the picture. There also was a bowling alley next to the pool and that is not in the picture either.(did you see the picture)? I do remember the pool at the Officers club.
    I just noticed the date of your last comment, June 6th. That is the date I left Ft Holabird for the last time, June 6, 1968.

    Comment by bill — June 13, 2007 @ 10:51 am

  96. Bill,
    Do not remember an elisted pool or bowling alley and did not take the photo interpretation course though ran many a thermofax overlay (does this date me or what?) during night shift at training aides (or is it aids, the disease or the assistants?). oh well! I find this site fascinating since it is the first cantact in lo these many years. I guesss we did exist.
    Manny

    Comment by manny — June 13, 2007 @ 7:20 pm

  97. Bill,
    I just noticed the June 6th comment. D-day, what a coincidence. Manny

    Comment by manny — June 13, 2007 @ 7:21 pm

  98. June 6th 1968 is also the day RFK died.

    Comment by bill — June 13, 2007 @ 8:17 pm

  99. Bill,

    What a coincidence!

    Comment by manny — June 14, 2007 @ 5:41 pm

  100. I was there Jan. 65 to July 65. Took the basic INTC course and then 9666. I was assiigned to HQ, Region I of the 113th in Chicago. Holabird was a country club after nine weeks at Ft. Benning and the training was outstanding. Anyone recall the field excercise at the old coastal artillery fort in Baltimore harbor.
    When I got theChicago, I scoped cases for three months and then went to the Fifth Army Field Office in Hyde Park. I was a door knocker for four m onths and then took over at SAC. I had two E-2’s, 2 DAC’s and an E-6. I have a vague recollection that one of the young guys was named Anderson but things are a little foggy after all these years. One of the DAC’s was named Lynch and knew where every street address in Chicago was w/o looking at a map. My E-6 was an old timer named George Choi and I wish I could tell him just how much I appreciate all he did for me. We did BI’s for the most part, but had several derogatory investigations and did security penetration efforts for the Nike sites along the lake front. It was good duty and I worked with some very bright and motivated guys. The Head of the region was Col. George Paddis.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — July 2, 2007 @ 3:13 pm

  101. Did anyone serve in the “old 109th CIC Detachment in C
    Cleveland, Ohio?

    Bill Yantis: The “old coastal attilery fort in Baltimore harbor” is a new on for me. The only one I recall is the Francis Scott Key one of “Star Bangled Banner” fame, never knew their was another.

    Comment by manny — July 7, 2007 @ 5:01 pm

  102. Really enjoyed reading all the comments above. However, was not a student at Holabird, but actually permanent party assigned to HHC-USAINTC (not intel “S”chool, but “C”enter) from 2/23/63 thru 9/3/65. Started out in pay records where I processed incoming students, both enlisted and officer for their pay vouchers. A special shout-out to Capt Rakov, M.D. who thanked me for my assistance by giving me a permanent profile so I didn’t have to to PT or KP for the rest of my duty time. After spending about 9 months in Pay Records, my section sgt. John Davis got PO’d with me for taking an extra day off after an extra-painful double extraction and told me to report to my CO after I got off quarters. The CO decided he needed an OJT cook in the consolidated mess, so he put me there where I lasted about a year as a glorified KP. Then, thanks to SP/5 Gary Doyle, the Co Morning Reports clerk, I was “paroled” into the orderly room to learn the MR job so I could replace Gary when he ETS’d. A real cushy job from 6am to 2pm. Of course, then we got a new First Shirt who thought I should work until 5pm just like everyone else (didn’t matter that I started 3 hours earlier than everyone else). That was George “Mr Clean” (cannot remember his last name). He had been the manager at the NCO Club and was very well liked in that position. After he became 1st Sgt, he did a 180, becoming a real jackass. After about 6 months of Mr. Clean, I was requested away from HHC staff to Troop Command to become a titless wac (clerk typist) under Col. Jerry Wimberly and S/Maj Floyd Sampson and, of course, Mrs Ortelt — the Col’s secretary (it seems as if SHE ran the office). While there I finally got my E-4 specialist bird (quite overdue). A lot of you students there in late 1964 and into 1965 may have come across me as the Troop Command clerk that assigned you to your daily assignments while you were waitiing for your classes to start. Those of you that were the non-bitchers got the plum assignments and those picked at the end of the round (the bitchers) got the worse assignments. Well, my 3 years came to an end on 9/3/65 and I left Holabird — but didn’t go too far as I had fallen in love with a “local girl” and Baltimore and stayed until 1980 when I moved back to my home state of Florida. Now, 27 years later, I am dreaming of one day soon returning to Baltimore — actually Dundalk where I plan to retire and live out my remaining years. It appears that Dundalk is experiencing a resurgence and regrowth. I, too, miss “Harleys”, “Squires” and the night club up the street where they had a live band nightly known as “The Punchanellos”. Seems as if Wednesday nights were 50c nite with all well drinks at 50c each. Boy, could you get a buzz for $5 back then.
    If any of you readers were there during ’63 to ’65 and remember your “casual duty assignments” waiting for your classes to start or were there as permenant party, get back with me at my email address of “tneuman@aaasouth.com”. I would love to hear from you.

    Comment by Tim Neuman — July 9, 2007 @ 3:59 pm

  103. Tim:

    Enjoyed your recollections, the first, I think, of someone who was permanent party. The “Bird” (a name we never used, only students left with that nickname for the place, was a very different place for transients and permanent “inmates.” We did the grunt work along with our specialties and bitched comensurately. You were just a bit after my time. The nightclub may have the Keystone or perhaps it had changed names by then?

    Comment by manny — July 11, 2007 @ 5:40 pm

  104. Wow, the memories. Just stumbled into this site. I graduated 97D20 at Holabird in January 1967. Do you remember doing the surveillance training in downtown Baltimore and the locals yelling out, “He went that way!” Then there was The Block. . .’nuf said. I went on to the Field Support Group in D.C. –civilian clothes, light cover, paid apartment, suburban office. Great duty. Then off to Vietnam. First MACV then levied to 5th SFGA. Almost 40 -FORTY – years ago.
    I came to this site as I’ve been trying to track down any more info about the 525th MI Group Villa that was overrun in Hue during TET. Anyone with any info please contact me. Thanks for this site and the memories.

    Comment by Greg Taylor — August 10, 2007 @ 1:34 am

  105. Manny of the 109th. We had a field problem involving “pacification” of a population after the Infantry had swept through. It was held at a coastal artillery fort, one of several that ringed harbors in major cities on the seacoast. The ammunition bunkers were very large and flooded. We were supposed to locate and identify contraband and secure intel from “civilians” played with fiendish delight by permanent party troops. Can’t recall the name of the place but it was not Ft. McHenry. If Craig Anderson checks back here (he had an entry a couple of years ago) give me a signal. I think you were one of my agents when I was SAC in Chicago. Of course, the mind does play tricks on one.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — September 1, 2007 @ 5:28 pm

  106. Bill Yantis:

    The 109th was the Cleveland,Ohio detachment. I was permanent party at Holabird. No idea where your “pacification” occured. Rings no bell. It might have been one of the Nike sites? Hope you hear from Craig.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — September 5, 2007 @ 6:13 pm

  107. Drafted July 1968; basic Ft. Bliss; Holabird Oct.1968-Mar. 1970,with language classes (French and Vietnamese) at Meade.

    Comment by Michael B Lee — September 26, 2007 @ 3:53 pm

  108. I was stationed at Holabird the first time from May – Oct 1963 as a student in the Coordinator Course. Returned as permanent party in Dec 1966 and stayed until Dec 1968. I was assigned to the FTX Committee during that period. Comment #60, Bob Scharbert was there at the same time. FInished the 97B and Photo Course while assigned. Went on to Vietnam after that tour.

    Comment by F. Don Clifton — November 16, 2007 @ 5:04 pm

  109. Interesting piece on fort hunt and p.o. box 1142 in today’s local paper. May be of interest to some of you in the interrogation area.

    Comment by manny — January 11, 2008 @ 5:32 pm

  110. I came to Holabird from basic at Ft. Jackson…by train. My first week there is pretty foggy; all I remember is being sick as a dog from the flu or something. They moved me to “casual company” where I stayed for what must have been at least 3 months [September ’67 – January ’68]. What a trip! I recall the guys in charge were Walshak(sp?) and Ferenzak(sp?)…shades of Sgt. Bilko. After graduation from 96D2T (II), I think my whole class ended up in ‘Nam.

    Comment by JosephHill — February 25, 2008 @ 2:15 pm

  111. Someone asked about the “casual company”. Permanent party were assigned to Headquarters company but placed on details such as moppping until “cleared” for their permanent assignments. I ended up under a Corporal Weeks (a real gem of a “soldier type”) mopping floors, but only briefly due to the fact that nobody seemed to know that I was there for a week or so, so simply wandered the base and slept in empty barracks (some security). Did not really appreciate how unmilitary Holabird was. Really lucked out after Knox and Gordon.

    Comment by manny — March 2, 2008 @ 10:16 am

  112. Any one who spent any time at Fort HaHa will remember this place. It was the Holabird Inn, now it is the Travlers Lounge.

    http://maps.live.com/localsearch/Details.aspx?what=Bars%2c+Grills+%26+Pubs&where=7200+Sollers+Point+Rd%2c+Dundalk%2c+MD+21222&tab=photos&lid=YN405x7373072&qt=yp&cobrand=1&FORM=LLDP

    Comment by bill — March 6, 2008 @ 11:13 pm

  113. Anyone still alive out there?

    Comment by manny — September 30, 2008 @ 11:43 am

  114. What a great site !!!!! I arrived at Holabird in Dec 1966 and started 96B class in Jan 67. Our class was half Army and Half Marines. Our senior NCO was a marine gunny and when he started yelling to clean the deck and whatever they called the walls we just stood there. The when he would try and march us to class we would refuse to break stride and would get the old bridge bouncing. The Brass finally gave up and split us from the Marines and SSG Skinner became our leader. A buddy of mine in basic at Ft Knox znd I were sent to Ft Ha Ha (I had forgot all about that) by bus and got there on a friday night. We had the same thing happen where he told us to come back on Monday. We asked if we could go home and he said yes. We got a cab to friendship airport and flew home to detroit. After completion of our course our entire class except for me and another guy was sent to Bragg for assignment. Kuzial and I were sent to Ft Ritchie Md. I was there for a few months and then sent to Ft Bliss for language school. I went to Nam in Dec 67 and was assigned to the 525th MI Gp. Since the thought I could speak Vietnamese they made me an Advisor and I was with Team 51 in Bac Lieu until dec 68. From there I went to Fr Bragg for 9 months until I discharged. Once again, what a great site to stumble upon. Welcome home-

    Comment by Bill Ballou — October 2, 2008 @ 11:30 am

  115. Bill Ballou,

    Marines at Holabird? In the mid 50’s perhaps an officer or two, but 50/50? That’s some IQ leap.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — October 2, 2008 @ 5:12 pm

  116. Most of the marines were cpls & sgts and were LRP’s and had already been to Nam. It was quite an experience !!! They were OK with the Army privates like me.

    Comment by Bill Ballou — October 2, 2008 @ 7:37 pm

  117. Thank God, I thought this site was dead.

    Comment by bill — October 2, 2008 @ 11:54 pm

  118. I wasn’t worried about the site as much as the “posters”. Good to know other “Birders” are still checking in.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — October 3, 2008 @ 4:09 pm

  119. If any of you were advisors in Vietnam the is a website and organization called Counterparts with posts from members of quite a few different teams. If you search “counterparts” you will see one called “counterparts frame page” ??? but that is the site. It is very interesting.

    Comment by Bill Ballou — October 4, 2008 @ 9:13 pm

  120. I arrived at Camp Holabird as an E-6 MP after 10 years in the real Army….Amazing Officers called me “Jim” Re-up got me into USAINTS teaching Map Reading to everyone; weapons ( 2″ 38cal to 97Bs , 45cal SMGs to 96s and was a Tac NCO for a short period when Officer Basic was conducted there….Attended 60-T-6 ( Imagery Interp ) and transferred to Air Recon as a Math Instructor till 62, then Korea, then Math Instr until 62,then Vietnam, then back as a math instructor until retirement as a CWO in 70. It is a real treat to read this site as it brings back many memories. A permanent Baltimorean, I have just a few obsevations to make.The field Artilley base at Baltimore Harbor was a WWI Coast Artillery base at Ft Howard.( where the harbor opens to Chesapeake Bay ) The Vietnam Village was located here. I worked with “Lillian ” Klecka and the band was led by Msg Anderson( membership got you out of all details )For permanent party EM membership in the ERF got those same rights ( But got you in every friday parade on Furlow Field ). Thanks loads for the memories>>>Jim.

    Comment by Jim Sprole — November 3, 2008 @ 12:48 pm

  121. Jim,

    Welcome to the site. Keep the memories coming.

    Thanks,

    manny

    Comment by manny — November 4, 2008 @ 3:19 pm

  122. Jim:

    What exactly was the ERF?

    Manny

    Comment by manny — November 10, 2008 @ 6:31 pm

  123. Bernie Thielen,

    To belatedly answer your 5/8/04 question: Not everyone stationed at Holabird need TS clearences. It all depended on one’s MOS, access to classified materials and so on. Most support personnel did not need clearence. There was a certain schizphrenia in operation not to rule out paranoia. Manny

    Comment by manny — February 19, 2009 @ 4:22 pm

  124. Thanks for the great site & memories. Hello to all who I served with at Holabird in early ’68 for 97D training.
    Went on to 525th MI Gp at the Ponderosa in Gia Dinh, RVN, then to the 113th MI Gp (civvies) in Detroit. No regrets & proud to have served with exceptional people.

    Comment by PHIL WISER — April 6, 2009 @ 2:13 am

  125. Great memories… I arrived at the bird on newyears day, 1968. OJ Simpson was scoring a touchdown in the RoseBowl, and that past spring we were teammates on the SC track team. I loved being sent from sunny California to the chill air of Dundalk and that odor of the creek! I was not sent directly to classes in the 97 B40 as I had to wait for my birthbay, two months later. So I was assigned to work in the basement of the school in the mean time. I remember a general who was demoted to a pfc mopping the floors until his retirement. That was cold. Mrs. Clicka was still working us to type and those retired agents working the skits. Of a class of about forty, we had about six marines, all senior to us just ourt of boot camps. Everyone received orders a week before finishing the class and only three of us were sent other than Vietnamese language training. Us three, Joe Bynum, an older ex peace corps worker, was sent to Burma, another name I forget was sent to the basement of the Pentagon to work for the Defense Secretary in the offices of the 902nd or the Duce as we called it. I was the lucky one and was sent back out to Los Angeles assigned to the All Army Track Team training out of Ft. MacArthur. We had six army team members make the 1968 Mexico City Olympic Team. I was not one of them and went to work the next month at the 115th MI Grp until moving on in life. The skills learned at the bird were the best. I did not get to DASE or DAME classes, those were for lifers and I never made that trip. We were yound agents and would best be used to infiltrate groups where our coungterparts in other federal agencies could not match our youth, so that is where we were put. Great times though. My old boss in MI is now retired and living in Washington state and I visit him yearly. I have done that since leaving the military in 1970. He saved me though and I owe him forever. Richard Cayford is his name. I had been recruited into MI after being noticed by a CIA officer working in the basement of the Doheny Library at USC in 1967. There was a HRAF (human relations area files) system there and all students working on anything there at the time had to sign in. Silly, how one can innocently be nabbed. Anyway, Holabird was a great landing for any young person at the time and it is no more. I have gone to visit the new school in Arizona. I was amazed that the school an the people in the school are of a different world than existed when I was as the bird. The mind that stated “the only constant in this universe is change.” So true, but fond memories for the bird!

    THOUGHTS AND SUCH: coopgl@cox.net

    Comment by gordon cooper — April 21, 2009 @ 4:42 pm

  126. Wow! I’m overwhelmed with memories. I went there out of basic for the Agents class in the Summer of 68…Just after Bobby Kennedy was shot. Some of the people I met there are friends of mine to this day. I took a weekend off and hitched down to Virgina Beach to visit a buddy while I was in casual co. I just didn’t have it in me to come back after the weekend and went awol for a week. Finally I got up the guts to head back and thought I would be shot immediately. Amazingly, nobody even knew I was gone! Went to the Holabird inn bar and got on their Dart Team. First time I ever played darts and still play to this day. Placed 2nd in the world in ’96. Great Site.

    Comment by Jack Radigan — April 22, 2009 @ 5:47 am

  127. Gordon Cooper,

    Curious, how have you found Holabird different from Huachucha(sp?)? Different troops? Interested in your impressions.
    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny — May 3, 2009 @ 10:00 am

  128. Arrived at Holabird in April 68 after basic at Bragg.Memories much like everyone else. Seemed like eaven after basic. Casual until June , then started class 96B20-Intel analyst. Was to go OCS in Fall. Got orders for RVN onlytobe sent back to Holabird. Back on orders for OCS.Orders came thru for OCS but in INF. Turned down. Who wanted to INF LTi68. RVN with 525 – assigned to 55th MID in Nha Trang tillMay 69.Extended to Task Force South in Dalat/PhanThiet until 9/69. Early out .Did not want to go to Bragg & paint rock. Ended mltary career with WVANG in 91. Fond memories. The BLOCK – had lunchon 21st birthday at Playboy club. Great officers -especially Col PrestonDavis inAdvance cource. Great bars off base. JohnDoyle

    Comment by John Doyle — May 6, 2009 @ 6:42 am

  129. I was at Fort Holabird from January 69 till May when I got orders for Germany.
    I went through the 97B4 class and how well I remember and still tremble at the thought of “Peachy Keen” and “Peter Poor”- what super memories.
    I don’t miss the stench of Colgate creek but I do recall it.

    I was briefly at the 66th MI Group in Munich and then a week at the 527th MI Company but spent most of my time in the Karlsruhe Field Office on Smiley Barracks in Karlsruhe, Germany.

    I was sent to Oberamagau (lord wish I could spell) to learn German hence my MOS became 97B4LGM3.

    Would love to hear from any of you.

    Comment by John Washington — May 22, 2009 @ 5:12 pm

  130. The 527 MI company being of course in K town.

    Comment by John Washington — May 22, 2009 @ 5:14 pm

  131. One more incident if I may:
    I was interviewing an actor who appeared as a gay man dressed in a blue velvet smoking jacket, open at the waist. He sat right next to me on a couch that had been provided as a stage prop. I was nervous as heck and at the end of the interview he asked me if I had anything else I wanted to say or ask. Anxious to get off stage I replied “NO” to which he replied I just flunked the interview.

    A LT told me that I would be interviewd by the actor Peter Poor (Joseph Bandiera) I think. Worst guy you could get.

    Every time Peter Poor entered the room using whatever name the role called for that day, the class would hiss and boo him and right on clue he would turn to the class and say “I hear air escaping from someone’s head” and we all laughed and he ate that up.

    For one week I had the Aztec Two Step in anticipation of my next interview. The LT reminded me that if I didn’t do well, I would be dropped from the class.

    So my day came, people hissed and booed and Peter did his thing and then it was my turn to be on stage.

    Knowing this would probably be my last interview if not my last day on earth, Peter asked me who my installation coordinator was – how the heck do I know who is the head of some installation? I looked at Peter and said “General” and then I paused to think and out of my stupid mouth came the word “Electric”- Peter stood up, his hands turning white from gripping the table, spit coming out of his mouth and he asked if I was ready to be an Agent.

    The class was howling, I was almost in tears and I was later told that the ONLY reason I didnt wash out of the class was that Peter Poor thought it was funny too.

    God bless that man.

    Comment by John Washington — May 22, 2009 @ 7:36 pm

  132. I can be reached at jwashington@vtc.net

    Comment by John Washington — May 22, 2009 @ 7:59 pm

  133. One thing I can mention while working as a CI Agent on Smiley Barracks in Karlsruhe, Germany, was the time I was coming back from getting the mail.

    I noticed some guy with a camera on a tripod so I went over to him and asked what he was taking pictures of. He showed me an old car in a field and said some friend in Karlsruhe who had no access to the barracks might be interested in buying the car if it was in good shape and so he was taking pictures of it in hopes of selling it.

    I went over to the tripod and looked through the lens of the camera and all I saw were military vehicles, not the car in question.

    I went to our office and told what I saw and our entire office along with a German who worked for us and a Dutchman – the wizard of photography (he could do amazing things with photographs) all decended on this guy in the field.

    We confiscated his camera and developed the film and what we saw were all sorts of NATO weapons all laid out on a blanket. Weapons from the US, France, Germany, Belgium etc.

    It turns out that the man was a Czech and worked as a cook. There were numerous Czechs and Poles who worked at various jobs on the barracks and all of a sudden they all got “notices of sick relatives back home” and they all left.

    Fancy that !!!!!!!!

    Comment by John — May 22, 2009 @ 10:58 pm

  134. Am I on a roll or what !!!!!!! – last one I promise.
    Once coming back to the office, my boss informed me that that American Red Cross had called and wanted to see me.

    If I recall the Red Cross was near the entrance to Smiley Barracks.

    The Red Cross doesn’t call unless there is an emergency so sweating and heart beating I raced up to the Red Cross building.

    Waiting a second to catch my breath and to compose myself for the bad news, I went into the personnel office and was asked “How long has it been since you have written your mother?”

    I said “What” and they replied that she (good ole mom) had called the Red Cross because she hadn’t heard from me.

    Needless to say I had a letter in the mail the next day. I told “She Who Must Be Obeyed” (SWMBO) that I was well and if ever she received an envelope with nothing in it, it meant I was still alive.

    I did manage to send a letter now and then and several empty envelopes.

    Comment by John — May 23, 2009 @ 12:18 am

  135. Good site

    Comment by John Doyle — May 23, 2009 @ 8:21 pm

  136. This is a good read:
    http://www.don-valentine.com/Super%20Spook%20Training.htm

    Comment by John — May 23, 2009 @ 10:32 pm

  137. I remember when we arrived at Fort Holabird in January of 69. Cold as heck and of course the barracks were none too warm. If the wind could blow in so could the rats come in.

    My aunt had sent me a tin of brownies but by the time I got them they had dried out and had been smashed to bits. So I offered them to the guys in the barracks.

    What wasn’t eaten was used as rat bait for the traps we had been setting for the past week with of course no luck.

    The lights went off and then “snap !!!! – a trap went off. The consensus of the group was to flush the thing down the latrine. Little did we know that the guy really did flush the thing down the latrine but at the same time ran his hands under the faucet to get them all wet and when he came back into the dark barracks, he ran his hands over his “bunkies” face and said “Man did that thing bleed”

    Gagging could be heard barracks away.

    Comment by John — May 24, 2009 @ 3:02 pm

  138. Super classic MI ring- wish I had known about this years ago.
    http://classicrings.com/mercantool/catalog/Army/branches_and_command/AR-28.html

    Comment by John — May 24, 2009 @ 9:26 pm

  139. Well I broke down today 4/26/09 and bought a ring from the above website.

    Comment by John — May 26, 2009 @ 3:30 pm

  140. I couldn’t believe it when I stumbled across this website. I could have written the description. I came to Holabird from Dix in September 1965, as an E2. I was lucky to find a cab driver who knew where Holabird was. Noone at the bus station had any idea wher it was. I was in a state of shock for a week, after basic. I was in the interrogator course, and graduated in December, 1965 to return to the 826 Mi Detachment in Hartford, CT. I thoroughly enjoyed all the comments. They brought back pleasant memories.

    Comment by Bob Reuter — June 4, 2009 @ 12:47 pm

  141. Thanks Bob for sharing your memories.

    John

    Comment by John — June 5, 2009 @ 7:52 pm

  142. Bob,

    Thanks.

    Comment by manny — June 6, 2009 @ 4:50 pm

  143. 41 years ago today, I got out of the army and left Ft HaHa forever. (I wish I could go back and visit but I know it is gone).

    Comment by bill — June 7, 2009 @ 12:15 am

  144. See posting 19. Now have seen aerial of Holabird in early 60s, have emailed Manny Adler on this site, and dug up my DD-214.

    Was EM permanent party photographer, lived on 3rd floor bay of lg. brick bldg. (seen in aerial). Marched to work to another brick bldg referred to as CIC Headquarters. Believe it was near eastern edge of Ft. Our floor (lowest) contained locked files, B&C, mechanical sorters and our photo lab.

    Duty assignment was: HQ Detachment,8579th DU; AIC, 8579th DU; HQ Co,8579th AAU.

    Can anyone tell me what DU, AIC, and AAU stood for? And what were thay the 8579th of?

    Can anyone tell me where to find my workplace on the aerial photo?

    Finally, dated a cute WAC – but that’s another story.

    Charlie Larus

    Comment by Charlie Larus — June 10, 2009 @ 10:59 am

  145. What an amazing web-site! I arrived at the “Bird” in December, 1965 to begin 97B classes in January, 1966. I couldn’t believe I was in the US Army! What a trip! Yes, the Holabird Inn was a favorite spot as was the sub bar down the street. I remember all the South Vietnamese officers, including generals being trained in our classroom building. I still have a lot of the old manuals we used and classroom notes. The “rabbit hunt” in downtown Baltimore was a memorable stunt. Does anyone remember Brett Hardy? He was a classmate of mine who invited me to his wedding in Washington DC. If I remember correctly, his bride was the daughter of a NY senator.

    It’s great reading all the stories of 40-45 years ago. After graduation, I went to DLI in Monterey to learn Romanian in 1966; ending up in Germany as an AH for OCE targeted against the east.

    And, of course, Ma Klecka will be remembered forever!

    Comment by Tony Wirkus — June 25, 2009 @ 4:04 pm

  146. Arrived at the Bird on January of 1968, straight from Fort Dix. I don’t remember how I got there. First thing I heard was from somebody who said “You won’t believe this place”.

    Spent several weeks on a casual status as a cook’s helper, not KP, but helping with the cooking.

    I knew one guy who was sent to a detail to do painting. He told them he was allergic to painting, so they told him to report back to get another detail. Instead he went back to the barracks, and put up a sign saying he was on a night-time detail! Never did anything.

    I had about two years of college, but was less educated than many of my classmates, we had about 5 guys with law degrees. Everybody went to ‘Nam except one guy who got himself into the AG’s office. He went later.

    Trained as a 96B, Order of Battle. Sspent a wonderful year in Phu Bai, as in “Phu Bai is all right!”

    Comment by Ken — June 25, 2009 @ 6:04 pm

  147. Manny,
    Finally reread this interesting site [five years after initial read].
    Thanks for your answer to my question [#3 above]. By the way I finally remembered his last name – Wallace. He was somewhat embarrassed because he got 100% on the first two tests.
    Did anyone flunk out of your classes? I don’t recall anyone in our class flunking out. One engineer left early for an assignment requiring his talents. Another guy who spoke Italian left early to be a “grad student” in Italy. I accepted their leaving at face value.
    Are many of you members of the National CIC Association [NCICA] and/or the Association of CIC Veterans {ACICV}?
    Stan Solin organized our Orange County CA group several years ago for lunches every two months. We welcome any one interested in the camaraderie; no dues and no membership in any organization required.
    I don’t remember Colgate Creek, probably because I was there in winter time {Jan. thru April 1956].
    Do any of you have stories about the instructors? Bernard Sweeney {DAC}was such an avowed anti-Communist and taught for so many years that the 1950s pupils remember him.
    How could I forget Wallace because he saved my bacon. Several weeks into our training I corrected the instructor. The instructor didn’t appreciate it, but let it pass. We {I} learned to just shut up {Yes, I should have known better]. Later in the course, I wasn’t paying much attention because this same instructor was boring. He called on me. When I provided the answers to his five questions he went apoplectic. It was really intense until Wallace asked an appropriate question and defused the situation. I profusely thanked him after class.
    Bernie

    Comment by bernie Thielen — July 16, 2009 @ 3:39 pm

  148. Just like the last post, I too have reread the site. It is amazing to read all these posts about an army post (Fort Holabird) and NO bitching or complaints. That tells you what a great place it was to be assigned to as a student or permanent party.

    Comment by bill — July 18, 2009 @ 10:18 am

  149. Comment #21 A few years back from Jeff Gallant. I remember Rocco and Nick. Nick and I landed up going to the 1st Infantry Division, with myself at Division and Nick going to 3rd Brigade. Last I saw Nick he was returning to “the world” after re-upping.

    Comment by Cesar Rosales — July 19, 2009 @ 1:39 pm

  150. Just discovered this site and the memories all came back. I went to the basic course and 9666 course in the first part of 1965. Got assigned to Region 1 of the 113th in Chicago. After duty in the region HQ went to Fifth Army Field Office as a agent and later SAC. I note that Craig Anderson was on the site and left a message several years ago. He was one of the agents who worked for me. If he sees this, I hope he responds: I’d like to find out what he has done for a career. That draftee army was an odd one and with all of the passions that arose from the VN War, lots of controversy as to troop quality issues: That was not the case with INTC. I met very few people who were not really superior soldiers. The Holabird training was worthwhile and impressive. I had a great car pool (George Gore and Nick Hanson ((Imagery Interp.)) and Dick Marler – 9666): Wonder what happened to them? Played more pool in the small day room than at any other time in my life..eating lunch and shooting 8 Ball. After IOBC at Benning the experiences at Holabird were an entirely different slice of the Army.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — July 23, 2009 @ 5:38 pm

  151. Bill Yantis:

    The draft pulled in some very bright folks as is evidenced by the sense of humor and literacy of this website.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — July 24, 2009 @ 7:16 pm

  152. What memorys of the Bird. I was a 97D graduating in July 68. Since the rumor was most of our class (44) were going to Nam I got everyone to kick in a buck so the lucky ones who didnt go could have a party at the 1 2 3 on us. The Army in it’s wisdom decided that if your name started with a R, S, or T, you got to go to Nam and the rest got very nice stateside duty. Since I was an S and I held the money, I changed the rules and the seven of us “lucky” guys went into the 123 and bought every pitcher they had, stacked them on tables and got as drunk as I have ever been.
    I spent my year with Det A, 1st Bn, 525th in Quang Tri then the last 18 months at DODNACC in St Louis

    Comment by Kurt Schulz — August 1, 2009 @ 1:22 am

  153. Found this looking for LIDMAC (Loyalty/Integrity/Discretion/Morals/AndCharacter
    Was at “The Bird” twice. Once in 1969 for six weeks for the tactical intelligence staff officer’s course. Then in 1971 I was back for six months for the counter intelligence controll officers course. We were the last officer’s agents class (9666) to go through Holabird. The next class went to Ft Huachucha Arizona.
    Does anyone remember the typing teacher from WWII – Mrs. Klecka? asdf jkl;. Seem to remember a ton of typing homework. Wound up sharing an apartment at Bear Run Apartments (recommended by post housing) with Larry Robertson from Albany Oregon & Roy Sumisaki from California (I think Frisco). Many fun lunches at the Holabird Inn across the street from the post famous for their rectangular hamburger hero and, of course, their drinks. There was a new car assembly plant within a mile or two of the post and they gave an interesting tour. Anyone remember Sparrows Point? It was near the Bear Run Apartments and there was some kind of steel mill there that gave off iron dust and everything around would turn rust red overnight. Went to Vietnam from Holabird and served with Col Wensyl (Wenzyl?) in the 3rd Bn, 525th MI Group, headquartered in Bein Hoa and covering Military Region III. Great assignment for being over there. Glad I didn’t know about the tunnels under Cu Chi when I was there each month. Anyway, this was a nice drive down memory lane. To all, be well !!!

    Comment by Steve Schein — August 3, 2009 @ 2:22 pm

  154. I attended CIC school at the bird 7/5/54-11/54. I was with a large group of just completed ROTC 2nd lts, directly from college. Many were Ivy league. I was married & lived off base in Dundalk. Boniface Campbell was Commanding Genl at the time. Would love to hear more from my class. bb

    Comment by barry bonoff — August 5, 2009 @ 3:54 pm

  155. Barry:

    Where did you go after Holabird? This site keeps getting hits and more interesting as it goes. Thanks Jim for getting the ball rolling!

    Manny

    Comment by manny — August 6, 2009 @ 2:22 pm

  156. Hi,
    A question—do any of you remember two guys from New Jersey? One was Mike Soriano and the other was Doug Scott.

    Comment by Jeanne Giaiimis — August 19, 2009 @ 5:36 pm

  157. I stumbled on this by accident. It was fun reading. After being drafted and basic trainin at Ft Ord in California, I was sent to Holabird in the fall of 1963 for the CI agent’s course. I remember the time there fondly and actually enjoyed the instruction and relaxed atmosphere after basic. JFK was assassinated while we sat in class. I will never forget when the major who was teaching our class walked into the room and told us, “Your Commander-in-Chief is dead.” I was stationed at the 526th INTC in Okinawa for a little over a year and then to the Pasadena, Calif. field office. Anyone else reading this there when I was?

    Comment by David Sexton — August 30, 2009 @ 1:58 am

  158. Oh, I do remember Mrs. Klecka’s typing class. Called it “Clicking with Klecka.”

    Comment by David Sexton — August 30, 2009 @ 2:08 am

  159. Class B-501 97B 1967 – Vivid memories of the 1-2-3 club and green beer. Returned a few years later for the Defense Against Surreptitious Methods of Entry (DAME)and Defense Agaist Sound Equipment (DASE).

    Comment by Jim Corey — September 10, 2009 @ 9:22 am

  160. Seems like only youngsters are responding. I was at Holabird Signal Depot and Camp Holabird from Jan 47 to Sep 49, S/Sgt, Company A (Officer’s Training Co.) Chief Clerk. No air conditioning and TYPEWRITERS. Any old timers there during that time?

    Comment by Charles Phillips — September 10, 2009 @ 10:01 pm

  161. Keep the comments and the memories coming. Great page to read.

    Comment by John — September 12, 2009 @ 6:51 pm

  162. Arrived at the Bird in May 69. Attended 96B class R-20 (I think). Graduated 30 Jul 1969. One of 17 class members who received orders to Viet Nam. Of those five of us ended up at the 191st MI Det, 1st Cav, Phuoc Vinh. But that is another story. Holabird was really another world after Basic at Ft. Polk. Arrived late on Friday (early Sat). Remember getting up late Sat morning to see everyone putting on civies. I didn’t have any but didn’t waste time buying some down town. I remember a lot of people talking about waiting for their class to start (97B) waiting for clearances or birthdays (seems like you had to be 21 before you could become an ‘agent’. So many memories…..123 Club, Dundalk Ave, Colgate Creek, and oh those early morning classes (Mon) after long week end parties. Glad I found this site. I remember classmates; Conte, Powley, Robideaux, Barney, Shoop (USMC) and class leader Smalls. Unfortunately I have lost contact with all of them.
    Thanks for the memories and WELCOME HOME, BROTHERS.

    Comment by Greg McNally — September 19, 2009 @ 5:40 pm

  163. You had to be 21 as a 97D so you could carry a side-arm in civilian clothes stateside.

    Comment by bill — September 19, 2009 @ 11:19 pm

  164. I was at Holabird Signal Depot from fall of 1946 to fall of 1947. Was in the 181’st Signal Depot Co. and spent my time at the big signal repair shop re: advanced training as a radio repairman.

    Comment by Laurence Stratton — September 21, 2009 @ 8:59 pm

  165. Arrived at Holabird March ’66 for 96D course . Went to Nam in July ’66 , 1st M.I. in Da Nang . Was in 2nd
    Armored Div prior to Holabird and all anyone cared about was getting my div patches off my uniforms .Hell On Wheels seemed to bother everyone .After Nam ended up a Bragg in HQ Co Contic .

    Comment by jeff morgan — October 2, 2009 @ 8:03 am

  166. I failed to mention that from 1947-1949, Co.A CO was Maj. Dellinger, XO Lt. Coats, 1st Sgt Bivert, Mail Cpl Wargo. Also from Air Force Basic in San Antonio: Payne, Millslagle, Shaffstall, many others. Sgt’s Jackson, Nettleton and Potvin were there also.

    Comment by Charles Phillips — October 12, 2009 @ 11:42 am

  167. There were some Air Force barracks on base. Each morning blue (what else) buses took Air Force personnel into Baltimore proper. I believe they were Air Research and Development Headquarters folks? We never crossed paths. Hush-hush among the hush. Anyone remember this or know any more?

    Comment by manny — October 13, 2009 @ 4:49 pm

  168. I remember eating in the enlisted mess and the airforce personnel always had their own section on the far side of the room seperated by a low wall divider. (1965-1968).

    Comment by bill — October 14, 2009 @ 12:07 am

  169. Attended 97c course in early 1968. Arrived RVN 6 June 68, day after RK was shot. Into to Vietnam was on Ponderosa rooftop drinking and watching the light show – tracer bullets. II Corps got me hooked on Asia and have been involved with it ever since (www.silkqin.com), but regret I didn’t keep in touch with classmates.

    Comment by John Thompson — October 15, 2009 @ 1:12 am

  170. Anyone know how how to locate site of the Ponderosa in Saigon of today?

    Comment by John Thompson — October 15, 2009 @ 1:14 am

  171. Was at the “Bird” summer & fall of 1962. Mrs. Klecha, Major Tarbutton, actors in fishbowl. Korea 1963, Philadelphia FO 1964. Would like to find classmates. 971 S/A.

    Comment by Larry Taylor — October 15, 2009 @ 9:03 pm

  172. Went thru Fort Holibird in 1948 after taking a clerical course at Fort Lee, Va. Went to the 115th CIC Detachmet in San Francisco and spent a year there. Was then sent to the 66th CIC Detachment in Stuttgart, Germany where I spent over 3 years. Then back to Fort Holibird to take the agents course After completing that I left the army. Have a lot of memories of my days in the CIC.

    Comment by Harry Carlisle — October 20, 2009 @ 6:28 pm

  173. Anyone out there remember Lt. Col. Isadore Max Belba? Working on a biography of Lt. Col. Belba.

    Comment by Mark — October 22, 2009 @ 11:30 am

  174. Was at Holabird for basic and 9666 classes May-Sep 1965. Then to Korea (2d MI Det) Oct ’65 – Feb ’67. One classmate to Korea with me – lost touch with all others. Memories of the “Bird” are sketchy. I do remember the great Italian food at Squires. Regret that the old post is now history.

    Comment by Graydon (Ed) Elliott — October 22, 2009 @ 8:50 pm

  175. W. Griffith:

    I served at Holabird as a 97D20 from March-October ‘68 in OPS III & IV, before I replaced a guy named (Dan?) Moen as the NCOIC of the USAINTC Liaison office in the Pentagon. I worked under BG William Blakely and his Liaison Officer, Lt. Col. Paul Feduska. We must have met at some time. Blakely was later replaced by BG “Black Jack” Matthews, just before I ETS’d in Dec. ‘70. Quite a ride…I worked in OPSIV as a “swing shift” analyst during Chicago DNC, coordinating with FBI & CIA. I remember with no particular fondness “Subversive Sam’s” bar and the Hardy’s squat & gobble. More than anything, I remember the camp followers at the NCO club. Some wild nights with local factory girls. I remember once being callled in to drive one of the brass to the Pentagon before I was transferred there…got totally lost. Good guy though, he never said a word. You must have been a better driver. The only other thing that really sticks out from now more than 40 years ago, was meeting then MAJ Lee Holland, who eventually became one of the Iran hostages. Thank God he survived that ordeal. Well enough reminiscing for now. ‘Hope your service served you well.

    Comment by Michael Kurz — October 23, 2009 @ 11:04 am

  176. Great site….my dad and family was stationed at Fort Holabird, MD.

    When I ask some older vets if they ever heard of this base, most of them just shake their head and say “Nope”….I glad to see that there actually was a Fort Holabird, MD.

    Enjoy reading the stories posted.

    Comment by Jim Scott — October 23, 2009 @ 11:15 am

  177. Jim,

    Holabird was probably one of the least known posts in the Army. I have encountered very few veterans who have heard of the place (or folks when I was in active service for that matter).

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — October 26, 2009 @ 3:41 pm

  178. Manny,

    According to my dad’s military record, he was assigned to Holabird from 18 Oct 55 to 18 Mar 57. He transfered from Ft.Meade (HHC 2101 SU)…no idea what this stood for..??

    Anyways, his record shows that he was assigned to “Intel Sch USAIC, Ft. Holabird, MD. I don’t suppose you or someone else may recall what that stands for..?

    You see my dad passed away several years ago (he never talk much about his duties while in the Army) and now my kids want to know what grandpa did while he was in the Army. Unfortunately, I don’t have many answers.

    Any suggestions on where to look?

    Comment by Jim — October 27, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

  179. USAIC was U S Army Intelligence Command (or Corps)

    Comment by bill — October 27, 2009 @ 11:47 pm

  180. Hi, I am pleased to have found this site because when I mention Fort Holabird people look at me like I am from the Twilight Zone. I was there as a MI student 2nd Lt in QV13 (Quick Vietnam)in early 1970 but went to Korea instead and became the S-2 for the Eight Army MI Group. While in training I lived in downtown Baltimore in a high rise appartment building called Sutton Place. My daughter is now going to Johns Hopkins University and I have recently asked people about Fort Holabird ant I just get starange looks and no one has even heard of the place! So much for history. I have found the Fort loacation but I don’t think there is anything left of the Fort. I will be back in Baltimore next week and will take a short pilgramage to the site 🙂

    Comment by Dan Hussey — November 2, 2009 @ 10:01 am

  181. Jim,

    U.S. Army Intelligence Center (also Command, changed in different time periods). CIC School, etc. Your dad and I may well have served together as our service match closely. Since I do not have his name I have no way of providing more informatio, sorry.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — November 2, 2009 @ 3:05 pm

  182. I was a 97B40A back in 1970, then on to the 902nd MI, then the 113th MI and finally a stint in Korea, TDY to VN. Anyone remember the Sandwich shop down (left) from the front gate? Best sandwiches ever. Before there were sandwich shops too. Glad this site exists. Thought I was drifting off to the Twilight Zone myself. No one has ever heard of the place. Glad I’m not really alone!

    Comment by Lon — November 6, 2009 @ 7:04 pm

  183. Harleys, everything smothered in onions!

    Comment by bill — November 7, 2009 @ 1:15 am

  184. Manny, Bill and fellow readers,

    Reference to my post #178 and your replies #179, #181.

    Thank you!

    My dad’s name was Harry E. Scott; (AKA: Red-because of his hair color). I believe he was a Sgt. I hope that may help.

    According to his military records, he was assigned as a “Inf Instr, Intel Sch USAIC Ft Holabird, MD”. No idea what he did or may of taught.

    After Holabird, he was stationed at: “USA Artic Indoc Sch 8353 APO 733”. I believe this was at Ft. Greeley, Alaska.

    Prior duties included, Pennsylvania Army National Guard, KMAG-Korea, 132 Ord Co DAS Ft. Meade, MD; 55th Ord Co DAS Ft. Meade, MD; Fort Greely Alaska; Knox, KY; Ft. Dix, NJ; Ft. Polk, LA; and previous Navy enlistment in the 1940’s.

    I hope you may recall him or be able to point me in the right direction.

    Thanks for your service to our country!

    Comment by Jim — November 8, 2009 @ 9:48 am

  185. Forgot to mention that we use to live on Oakwood Road, Baltimore, MD (Dundalk) during this time. I may have some old photos.

    Comment by Jim — November 8, 2009 @ 9:53 am

  186. Stumbled on this site doing a post-mortem search on behalf of my Dad, Curt “Pierce” Davis, Japanese POW during 1942-1945. He told me a couple of years before he passed away (in 6/09) that he had been at Ft Holabird, but never said in what capacity. I know he had been in pub affairs office at Ft Knox where I was born, and had been a typing teacher at some point early 50’s of Korean War recruits. Dad had written poetry as a POW and when he came to Holabird he loaned writing to someone named Mayer/Myer/Meyer/Myers/Meyers…. and never received it back. So I’m still searching, but if I stumble across anyone out there who knew my dad, please give a shout out.

    Comment by Faith (Davis) Trinkl — November 11, 2009 @ 3:13 pm

  187. Discovered your site recently & thought I’d check in on Veteran’s Day. I arrived at Holabird Nov.4th,1966 from Ft. Jackson and started class several weeks later as a 96B20. The place seemed surreal especially Casual Company and many guys wearing civvies after normal duty hours.Got to go home that first weekend and every one after since I lived in Waterbury,Ct.One of my more memorable chintzy details in Casual was a Q-boat assignment from about 5 at night to 6 in the morning. Someone said they used it to drop agents off at designated areas.As I recall, it looked like a tug boat with a galley and full seating area. I was told not to go to sleep but to polish the brass on the entire boat to ensure that I wasn’t to snooze.Fell asleep about 2 and woke in time to greet the guy in charge.He chewed my butt off for napping saying I did a lousy job. Actually he was right as I only did the bell,didn’t look much better than the remaining brass.When I started the R-11 analyst course many guys had degrees or several years of college,one student was a foot doctor who refused a commission.Remember the “rout step” Colgate Bridge whose creek rendered the odor of the day. There were other smells that wafted into our campus from the beer breweries and the rubber processing I think.Could not believe it when I was assigned to Ft. Shafter,Hawaii after filling out a “dream sheet” It was a very small installation a few miles from Waikiki,no formations no extra duty,”It was Paradise with the 319th M.I. Bn.” The Pueblo Incident sent me to the 502nd M.I. Bn. in Seoul, Korea with G2 8th Army.This was a very good assignment and subsequently I volunteered for Nam. July 1968 saw me with Security Plans&Operations with U.S.A.H.A.C. ETS was the day the U.S landed on the moon,20July,69;many beers since the “123 Club”.Thanks for your time, Manny, great site .I think we all had something special at the “Bird” to remember, especially the unique caliber of men we served with there. This site reflects it.I’dliketo say hello to a few guys who were at the Bird:Doug”Stonewall”Jackson,Monteiro,Cleavand,the”Count” Grossberg,Doc Levin,Larry Formicella,Mike Guidone,Keller,and everybody from R11″ Ed Hotchkiss

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — November 11, 2009 @ 8:39 pm

  188. Thanks to all of you for serving.

    Comment by John — November 13, 2009 @ 7:24 pm

  189. Got to Holabird middle of 1967. 97B40 class. Two USMC E5’s in our class-just back from Vietnam. Remember the Holabird Inn well…..best ham sandwich I ever ate. I remember that a lot of the guys were from the East Coast and would catch the train home on the weekend. I was from Michigan and was stuck in town. The two Marines had a car and we would buy a case of beer and end up at a drive-in movie on Friday night. We would usually get tossed before the movie was over. Left Holabird and went to the 101st at Ft. Campbell, but didn’t stay long. We were interviewing incoming draftees about political leanings and drug use. Had enough of that after a month or two and volunteered to go to Vietnam. Assigned to 5th SFGA in Nha Trang.

    Great site you have here. Stirred up a lot of memories.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — November 15, 2009 @ 11:09 pm

  190. Just found the site. I arrived at Ft Holabird in Dec 65 right before the big snowstorm. Basic at Ft Polk, I had been told Ft Ord so when I got to the Bird I didn’t know what to expect. No KP, good food and laundry. 97B training in between the Holabird Inn and the “Block”. I couldn’t believe it but sent back to CA for the 115th Riverside FO. Never made it reassigned to LA Field Office, 15 min from home. Everything was great, working in civvies, background investigations and did some TDY to AZ and Ft. Ord. Then, I got my orders for the 525 MID in Saigon, March 1967. My boss, CWO old CIC hand, asked me if wanted to go. I said no choice, he called a friend and I was reassigned to the 526 MID Okinawa for 15 months. Best time of my life, TDY all over and no NAM. Great memories, keep up the site.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 18, 2009 @ 10:27 pm

  191. Have great memories of the “Holy Bird.” Drove up after Basic at Ft. Jackson in May 54. What a change!!
    Spent a lot of time on E. Baltimore Street until I got married On Aug. 1, 54. Flew home to NC, got married on Sunday afternoon – flew back to Baltimore and was in class Monday AM. Great honeymoon. Shipped out to Germany in October and spent the next 18 months at Region I, 66th CIC Group (7807 USAREUR DET.) in Stuttgart. Would love to hear from Hoben, Glass, Huckelberry, Childs or any of my classmates.

    Comment by Gene Garland — November 24, 2009 @ 4:40 pm

  192. Don’t have a clue how I found this site, but boy does it bring back memories. From basic at Ft. Jackson to the Bird in March 1966 (96D) then to Offut Air Force Base for more training then to 502nd in Korea and back to Holabird as trainer for Reserve Units that were being called up. Hated to hear that the place has closed down, would love to visit one more time.

    Comment by Steve Bostick — November 30, 2009 @ 8:29 pm

  193. Wow! What a find!! My 1st memory of Ft. Holibird was breakfast, after arriving (0030). Arrived in front of the SP5 “chef” and was asked how I wanted my eggs. Almost lost it right there. Ft. Leonard Wood was never that kind. Spent several months there in the CI course, 97B. Spent a lot of time at Memorial Stadium and got to see every AL team play, when not throwing darts at the Holibird Inn. Powell, Stormin’ Norman and the big stud for the Senators. Left there in June 1971 and arrived at the 511th on 7-10-71. Spent 2 days at HQ and then left for RO Graf, 7th Army Training Center. Left the unit and rotated home in 10-73.

    Comment by Craig Childress — December 5, 2009 @ 6:23 pm

  194. Craig Chidlress – i did 3 years as a 97B at RO Graf (1981-84)…it was above the bank when i arrived and then moved to a stand-alone building. Our translator was Alfred (Fred) J. Tampe. Do you remember him? if so, drop me a line at sammlm@roadrunner.com.

    thanks

    Comment by Mike Miller — December 5, 2009 @ 11:09 pm

  195. Stumbled on this site from a Goggle alert. Was at Holabird from Nov 65-Feb 66, after coming from the engineers via DLIWC-Bulgarian with over 10 years service already and a SP5. Met CPT Warnicke while taking the 96C IPW course and was invited to his home with my family – I still see him every year in church in Seattle on Easter. Spent the next 17 years in MI mostly in Germany with the 66th and 18th MI and retired from Ft Lewis WA in 1983 as a CW3. After retirement from State Patrol in 2004 worked a year at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq. None of the MI guys there ever even heard about Ft Holabird.

    Comment by Art Farash — December 7, 2009 @ 4:03 am

  196. What a trip Holabird was. I attended from Sept. ’68 until February ’69 as a 97B40. We all expected to go right to Nam after completion of the course. About three weeks before finishing we were given a sheet to fill in that listed our linguistic skills. There were columns across the top that read “fluent” “understand” and “no knowledge”. Down the left side were listed the languages: Vietnamese, Laotian, French, Spanish, Italian, German, Other. I checked off “no knowledge” on all but one. Having taken a semester of German in Jr. High School I deemed myself “fluent” in German and spent the next 2 1/2 years in Frankfurt at the 503 MID at Drake Edwards Kaserne and the 165th MI Co. at Gutleut Kaserne where I never once had to use the language. Ironically, I became fluent in German during my tour there but that was due to dating the German girls, not any language school.

    Comment by Don Marikovics — December 7, 2009 @ 2:18 pm

  197. I arrived at Fort Holabird in January, 1961, after basic training at Fort Dix, NJ. I stayed at “The Bird” until the end of May after completing the agent’s course. From there, I spent a year in Monterey at ALS studying Ukrainian, (with Dave Smith, Dennis McNeil, and Joe Kalousek), and then to FO Nuernberg, Germany with the 511 MI until coming home.

    The Commandant at Holabird in ’61 was General Prather, who among other things, enjoyed staging Friday afternoon parades. These misguided spectacles began in early April.

    The field was never quite dry enough, and there were plenty of low, wet spots through which we needed to slosh, causing lots of damage to the spit-shined shoes we wore with our dress uniforms. The marching band was made up of USAINTS students with varying musical and marching abilities, and was termed the “Drum and Stumble Corps.” It was the NCO’s who came up with that name.

    I had a squad leader whose name was Robert Doane. Others in my squad were Paul Bosten, Bill Hodge, and Bob Carpenter. This was at a time when “The Mickey Mouse Club” was a favorite of daytime television for kids. Our squad reworked the words of the theme song from this show to run like this:

    “Who’s the leader of the squad that’s made for you and me? R-O-B-E-R-T-D-O-A-N-E”

    We learned that Bob Doane didn’t like this very much, so we stopped singing it in his presence, but we enjoyed harmonizing in the bar across the street after a few beers.

    Two guys in my class were named Munzenrider and Heckenlively. The staff had a good time mispronouncing their names. Polysyllabic words were tough for them.

    I understand that Fort Holabird was used for housing German POWs during WWII, and after that, Watergate-related criminals were kept there in the 1970s. I believe that it is now a housing development.

    I miss you all, and wish I could see every one of you again. I can be contacted at: wkrause55@gmail.com. I would like to hear from somebody.

    Bill Krause

    Comment by Bill Krause — December 7, 2009 @ 11:22 pm

  198. Bill,

    Friday parades were a tradition (or abomination) for ego gratification for the Generals, some dependents and assorted visitors. Permanent party had to endure these along wih kp, guard duty,etc. And they wanted us to re-up!

    Manny

    Comment by manny — December 10, 2009 @ 10:30 am

  199. I was assigned at Fort Holibird the first time in 1948 and was sent from there to Camp Lee Virginia to learn how to type. Then to the 115th CIC Detachment in San Francisco as a clerk. After about a year I was sent to Stutgart, Germany and served over 3 years in the 66th CIC Detachment. Left Germany in 1952 and went back to Fort Holibird for several months training. After completing the training I decided to leave the Army in December 1952. Would like to hear from anyone who might remember me. carlisleh@aol.com

    Comment by Harry Carlisle — December 13, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

  200. Found this sit by accident. Brings back lots of memories. I would like to hear from guys assigned to the USAREUR Liason Team in the late 1960,s.

    Comment by Jerry Gilbreath — December 17, 2009 @ 1:46 pm

  201. My name is Tom Brennan. I was at Ft. Holabird in the Spring of 1964 for the agent course (9666), then to Monterey for the German course, to Border Resident Office, Hof, in Germany as OIC from Feb 1965 to mid-1966. After Hof, I transferred to Nurnberg as the FO Commander, 511th MI Company, 66th MI Group until Dec 1967 when I separated..

    My greatest memories of Holabird include Mrs. Klecka for typing and the actors who tied us up in knots during the interviews. I recall Mr. Robert?) Bandillera (phon) and Ms.(Julia?) Margolies (phon). There was one other whose name escapes me. It was very humbling to be behind the one way glass wall and hearing the laughter from the rest of the class on the other side when I made an ass of myself. Then there was the day they polygraphed me in that room and held up a Playboy centerfold in front of my face. I can still hear the laughter as the needle went crazy.

    There was a classmate who was a Navy Lieutenant j.g.. who had a convertible. We car pooled from Washington every day and drove through the Harbor Tunnel. We would remove our hats because if they ever flew off in the tunnel they would be gone forever. One morning a field grade from the post observed us without our hats and saw the Holabird sticker on the car. . The Lt. was summoned to his office and berated for being “out of uniform”. The Lt. could not believe this chicken shit and just stared at the officer until he was dismissed..

    I would love to hear from anyone and can be reached at walkingt@hotmail.com.

    Comment by Tom Brennan — December 21, 2009 @ 4:20 am

  202. My dad, Tom Cornwell, was in the Army Intelligence unit there around 68-71, if any one remembers him….he then went on to Vietnam. I just remember hearing stories of Holabird as a kid.

    Comment by Maria — December 23, 2009 @ 12:11 pm

  203. Hi all, Immediately after my basic training at Fort Knox, I spent the spring of 1966 at Fort Holabird training for a 96B20 MOS. Like everyone else, I soon began to wonder just what this military was all about. The two duty stations couldn’t have been more different. My memory of that time in my life is not too good except I do recall the drinking at the 123 club and the bus trips to DC almost every weekend. I also recall the food served in the mess hall being very good, the varied type of military personel constantly buzzing all over the post, and the distinct oder and color of Colgate Creek. I ended up serving in the 519th MI Bn at Tan Son Nhut Airbase from July 66 to July 67. I love reading the comments herein and god bless each and every one of you.

    Comment by Ross Morgan — December 29, 2009 @ 2:13 pm

  204. Happy New Year to all.

    A terrific website!!!

    My father was stationed, twice, at Fort Holabird, befroe and after Korea.

    We lived in nearby Dundalk.

    I remember Sunday School, Church, picnics etc. at the Fort; all the while having no idea what my father, or anybody, actually did there.

    Great memories.

    Thank you,

    BB

    Comment by Bob Bartles — January 6, 2010 @ 2:20 am

  205. Bob Bartles,

    Neither did we.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — January 6, 2010 @ 5:58 pm

  206. This is a great site and brought back many happy memories. I arrived at The Bird from Dix on September 10, 1954. After a couple of months shuffling papers in Stuttgart I was assigned to Region XII (Kaiserslautern), where I worked with a great bunch of guys, explored the most beautiful part of Germany, and drank the best wines in the world. Those were the best years of my life. I’d like to hear from anybody who was at The Bird at that time or stationed in Kaiserslautern at any time.

    Comment by Myron Johnston — January 8, 2010 @ 8:22 pm

  207. I graduated from CIC school at Ft. Holabird in the winter of 1952. Out of my graduating class of some 50 students, five of us were assigned to the far east. I wound up at CIC headquarters in Sapporo, Hokkaido, Japan. Was discharged in April, 1953.

    Comment by Robert Livesay — January 9, 2010 @ 1:14 pm

  208. I joined the army at the end of April 1966 and took basic at Ft. Polk. I arrived at Ft. Holabird in August and attended the Coordinator course (97D20). I remember the huge parade field in front of the large barracks building. The MPs would fire the pack howitzer at raising and lowering of the flag and made sure to check the bore to make sure that no one stuffed a roll of toilet paper in it. I still have a picture of myself standing next to the gold plated sphynx.

    Upon graduation, two of us went to Korea and the rest went to Vietnam. I spent the best year of my life at Company B, 502d MI Bn at Tracy Compound (Liaison Office) in Seoul.

    I was reassigned to the 113th MI Group headquarters at Ft. Sheridan (Illinois). As it was 90 miles from home, I couldn’t complain. I finished out my enlistment there in April of 1969.

    In one of the comments from the 1990’s, Jerry Race mentioned that he was there at the same time. If he checks this site or anyone knows where he is I would like to contact him. (mondana47@hotmail.com)

    The comments here have brought back many memories. Thanks, Dan

    Comment by Dan Rundell — January 14, 2010 @ 12:01 am

  209. My father Sgt. Joseph Lorusso was stationed on base around 1966-1970. We lived in officers housing. It was a square neighborhood with a playground in the middle.
    I remember visiting soldiers and watching them shoot pool. My father was married and had 10 childern. I would love to hear from anybody that remembers him.
    My email is : Soupersalad13@aol.com
    Iam not sure what his job was. We moved to Pa. in 1971
    when I was 7 years old.
    I do remember an officer Sgt. Jim mcCann.
    I do remember eating at Sqiure’s. We did visit through the years. If I remember correctly the owner/wife is named Toots or Tootise. My father passed away in 1987 and buried at Arlington. I loved reading everyones comments and memories. God Bless..
    Army brat,
    Angie Lorusso

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — January 14, 2010 @ 8:31 pm

  210. P.S to comment #209

    we lived on College Ave.

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — January 15, 2010 @ 8:14 pm

  211. colgate ave. NOT college ave. (sorry)

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — January 15, 2010 @ 8:57 pm

  212. After attending basic at Ft Polk I arrived at Ft Holabird in May/June 1966 attending the CI agent course. My first assignment was the LA Field Office, 115th MI Group, commanded by LTC Sueda. May first boss was CWO Cheeks(PSI Team 1) followed by CW0 Bob Jenkins(SI Team 5). I subsequently was assigned to the 511th MI Company in Germany and later went to MACV Tm 42, Binh Dinh Province, Vietnam. After many more assignments I retired in 1990 as a CW4.

    Post #190(Richard Duarte) I rememeber you from LA.

    Post #202(Maria) I served with Tom Cornwell, but I just can’t remember where.

    Comment by Ed Harris — January 17, 2010 @ 6:52 pm

  213. Arrived at the Bird in Jan 1962 for agent training. Spent lots of time at the Acropolis on the dock, Slim Browns bar and the Holabird Inn. Managed to get in tight with the assignments Sgt and was sent back home to the 113thINTC Rgn 5 in St. Louis. Still have memories of the mandory Parade on saturdays, and being required to get a haircut every week. Was in the office in the Mart bldg when Kennedy was shot. What a mess. Would love to hear from anyone that remembers me.

    Comment by Norman Minshall — January 17, 2010 @ 9:39 pm

  214. email normm1@charter.net hoping the hear from someone

    Comment by Norman Minshall — January 17, 2010 @ 9:41 pm

  215. I went from Ft. Gordon, GA (Basic Training) to Ft. Holabird in November, 1969. I was trained as a 96D2T (Image Interpreter) and was sent to Viet Nam right after graduation in the spring of 1970. I was assigned to the 172nd MI Det with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in II Corp (Central Highlands) stationed at LZ English where I spent the year on flight status shooting my own aerial photography, making mosaics, forward observing for artillery and going on extended flights ‘over the borders’ on Mohawk camera planes. I would love to hear from anyone who was there with me!

    Comment by Bill Harrison — January 21, 2010 @ 9:33 pm

  216. Went through the “Bird” in the Fall-Winter of 68-69. Holabird was a great place. It was a well kept neatly trimmed college type campus. Wish there were more pictures. During those years the school was jammed packed with students from all over the U-S and the planet. The instructors were super,a who’s who of the I-community. Spent the next several years at the IG Farben working with some of America’s best.

    Comment by RF — January 29, 2010 @ 9:06 am

  217. Taps for one of our own, J.D. Salinger (WWII CIC).

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 30, 2010 @ 2:58 pm

  218. I too stumbled on to this great site. Never thought about how blessed we all were to land at the smelly Fort in Dundalk MD. Arrived April 69 from Knox via air to Dulles and bus to Dundalk. A month later started 97B class after a few interesting work assignments. Got to do KP and after breaking out in the worst case of prickly heat I decided to try something different if possible. Had made friends with Steve from Hammond IN who got me a job as CQ where everyone checked in. On 24 off 48. In the middle of the night I was vacuuming the CO,s office and the machine quit. I took it apart to repair it and was literally covered with dirt and grime when the OIC came in the office on his rounds. When his aid came in and shouted “attention” it literally scared the crap out of me. I managed to jump to attention and salute the officer. He was kind of a prankster himself and took one look at me and laughed and said he was glad to see that sombody was working at that hour.
    Started class soon after and it was just like going to college. Had the PM Class so no early rises and that was good. My wife, 2 year old son and I lived at Chesapeake Bay Apartmments as far East of the fort as we could go. Great memories of Crabing on the bay. Assigned to 113th MI CFO out of school and then transfered to Carbondale Field Office (30 miles from home). Lived in our own house until they relocated me to the 502nd in Seoul Korea Tracey Compound. Couldn’t figure out why as I was working my butt off there. Later when I met up with the 20 other Holibird grads at Ft Lewis we figured out that we had all been doing some civilian observation that had been unappreciated by congress. Got to Seoul on Dec 21, 1970 a Merry Xmas from Uncle Sam. Sat on my butt for several months before getting an early out to come home to farm. Met some real characters at Holabird and in Korea. People wouldn’t believe the things we got to do. As you can tell a great number of memories have reappeared because of this website. Thanks

    Comment by Terry Clark — February 2, 2010 @ 2:42 am

  219. Ed Harris: I almost jumped when I read you served with my father – I will pass along that information to my brothers, they’ll be thrilled. Thank you!

    Comment by Maria — February 8, 2010 @ 2:28 pm

  220. I WENT TO THE BIRD FOR 97C TRAINING FROM 66-67, THEN TO 116TH mi in D.C. VOL VN FROM 68-69 AND THEN REASSIGNED BACK TO PENTAGON AS CHIEF OF WORLD ASSIGNMENTS FOR 97Bs
    UNTIL OCT 69 THEN WAS PROMOTED TO WARRANT AND REASSIGNED TO CORPUS CHRISTI, TEXAS AND SUBSEQUENTLY TO 701st AT FT. BRAGG, GOT ORDERS TO KOREA, BUT RETIRED AS CWO2 INSTEAD. WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO REMEMBERS ME FROM THE 525TH, 116TH OR 701ST AND CAN ANYONE REMEMBER THE NAME OF OUR COMMANDING GENERAL IN NAM. I THINK IT WAS DILLON OR DYLON.

    Comment by GEORGE KRISKO — February 10, 2010 @ 6:01 am

  221. WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM ANYONE WHO SERVED WITH ME IN THE 116TH, 525MI, 701ST MI OR ASSIGNMENT BRANCH FOR 97Bs OR IF ANYONE KNOWS THE NAME OF OUR COMMANDING GENERAL AT THE 525TH IN SAIGON (66-69). aLSO WOULD LIKE TO CONTACT MEL GERKOVICH; JOE LONG ANF ANGEL MATOS-TORRES (OF PUERTO RICO)

    Comment by GEORGE KRISKO — February 10, 2010 @ 6:18 am

  222. Took Basic Agent course Nov61-Feb62; stationed 108th INTC Group, New York Feb62-May63; Security Service Detachment, Ft. Amador, Canal Zone Jun63-Jun64; looking to connect with agents Dale Campbell (went to Korea in ’63) & Tad Bartlett of Manhattan field office; Harry Jennings Bryan at Amador

    hcrise@gmail.com

    Comment by howard crise — February 10, 2010 @ 5:14 pm

  223. From Nov. 1968 to April 1969 attended 97B school at Holabird. Had a blast. School was good, as was the food. Remember sitting in the lounge and watching Joe Namath beat the Colts. Probably the only one not rooting for the Home Team. Actually treated us with respect, maybe because we were the ‘spooks’. Had a ball in Baltinore and DC. Only one in my class that didn’t have a 4 year degree. When orders came, I was the only one to RVN. Assigned to a special ops unit with the 1st ARVN Div in Hue. All the rest went to Korea. Have a lot of fond memories of Holabird and the men in my class. They were all smart guys…..Hope they all lived a good life.

    Comment by Wes Lorenz — February 11, 2010 @ 9:31 am

  224. We lived on post when my father, Col. Gerald Duin, was stationed at Holabird ’56 to’58. Gen. Prather was the post CO. As a dependent, I went to Eastern High School; the boys went to City College. During that time, there was an instructor named Betty MacDougall whose daughter, Jill, was my best friend. Mrs. MacDougall’s husband had been killed on a golf course a few years earlier, and she later married an officer named Mclaren. Does anyone remember any of these people? Except for a mention of Gen. Prather, there seems to be a lack of information about that time period.
    When I was there, there was a sports store right outside post across Holabird Ave (I think) where we used to see Johnny Unitas hanging out.
    This is a great site. Thanks!

    Comment by Ingrid Richardson nee Duin — February 14, 2010 @ 7:40 pm

  225. Wes Lorenz, was your brother at the Bird before you?

    Comment by Bill Leach — February 15, 2010 @ 1:23 am

  226. To Bill Leach…
    No, no brother before me. Went there right out of Ft. Dix. Remember I was able to sneak my car onto Ft. Dix during basic training. Figured I could just jump into it after basic and drive to Baltimore. Not quite..they threw me on the bus and off I went. When I checked in @ Holabird, I told my Sgt. about my predicament and he gave me a ride to the bus station where I got a ride back to Dix to get my car. Made it back to Holibird before morning formation. Had a friend going to Georgetown University at the time and almost every weekend I went to DC and had a blast. He lived in a large house with about 10 other guys. The place was always crawling with girls. Sure hated to leave Holabird……

    Comment by Wes Lorenz — February 17, 2010 @ 9:19 am

  227. To Wes Lorenz,
    To Wes Lorenz,

    I was stationed at Holabird from Oct 65 – Jun 68. While there, my cubicle mate was Frank(I think) Lorenz. With the spelling, I thought maybe you were related. I don’t remember what Frank did. (it was over 40 years ago) but he was a good guy.

    I worked at the S-2 and we issued all the security clearances for the students and permanent party at the school. It was a great job at a great post. If I could have spent 30 years there, I would have been a lifer.

    Comment by Bill — February 17, 2010 @ 8:31 pm

  228. I first arrived at Ft. Holabird in Sep 67 for the 97B course. I was an SSG direct from the 172 Inf Bde, Ft. Richardson, AK. Wonderful time at Ft. Holabird. I was married and lived in Essex. From there I went to Region IV, 113th MI Group, Denver, CO for 10 months, including either two or three weeks in Chicago after Martin Luther King’s death, prior to joining the 101st MI Det, 101st Air Born Division, Hue (LZ Sally), Vietnam. Got out of Vietnam safe and eventually retired after two tours in Germany and an assignment with DIS in St Louis, MO.

    Comment by Brace Barber — February 21, 2010 @ 7:29 pm

  229. Brace,

    What exactly does DIS stand for?

    Manny

    Comment by manny — February 22, 2010 @ 7:36 pm

  230. DIS stands for Defense Investigative Service. DIS came into being in 1973, replacing the services of the responsibility for background investigations for DOD.

    Comment by Ed Harris — February 24, 2010 @ 9:12 pm

  231. Brace,

    Thanks,

    Manny

    Comment by manny — February 26, 2010 @ 7:40 pm

  232. Ed,

    Whoops, sorry.

    Comment by manny — February 26, 2010 @ 7:41 pm

  233. Great website. Incredible memories and how fast time goes by. Would Like to here from those who went through Holabird Sept 1967-February 1968, then sent to the 502nd MI Battalion in Korea. No one on the message board so far except Dan Rundell who was a year ahead of me in that process knows what that experience was like. I know others shared it ..

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 2, 2010 @ 2:26 pm

  234. Daryl, I was at the 502nd from Sept 66 until arround March or April of 68. Your name sounds very familiar.

    Comment by Steve Bostick — March 3, 2010 @ 12:15 pm

  235. Steve,
    Left Holabird in Jan 1968 and arrived in Comp.B, 502nd MI., Tracy Compound, Seoul, in Feb 1968. We may have overlapped a bit.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 3, 2010 @ 1:01 pm

  236. Steve,
    I arrived at Company B during Oct. 1966 (I think-been a long time) and was assigned to LIAISON, which was run by Donald Fox (civilian/ex army intell NCO). I lived in the hooch right next to the Mess Hall. I was a “Coordinator”-97D20.
    Some of the names I remember are George Koopman, Ralph Stein, Steve Dobrowolski, John Smart, Colonel Russell Cogar, and Chubby Kim(one of our Korean interpeters and a good poker player).
    Which office did you work in?
    Dan

    Comment by Dan Rundell — March 4, 2010 @ 12:38 am

  237. When I left the Bird I first went to Offut Air Force Base to school for II then on to the 502nd. I worked for Brig. Gen. Brooks (Air Force) at the USSSD build. behind 8th Army G2 I worked with these guys almost daily. Some of the guys I remember are Al Bridges, Jon Tallman, John (red) Miller, Ed Kerr, Louie Domerese, Lynwood Fisher, Pop Atchley, Maj. Ware, Capt. Kirby, Capt. Paula Jenkins,1SG Groosman, and most important Mr. Song (bartender at the NCO club I think we called it the Hilltop Club

    Comment by Steve Bostick — March 4, 2010 @ 11:29 am

  238. It’s great to see this site still alive! Facebook has a page now looking for alumni. I took the 96B20 course from August to October 1968. Arrived on base in July and had to wait for my class to start. Got assigned to permanent KP as a cooks helper. A civilian guy. It was not bad duty. Sort of liked it. Making like 40 gallons of soup at a time. Well about a week before my class was to start, the Mess Hall Major asks me and the cook into his office. The Major wants to send me to cooks school, because I was a “natural”. I just look at this guy, and say Thank you major. I have enjoyed my time working for you, but I have my heart set on being James Bond! When our class had its turn for KP, I was assigned to help the cook again. Colgate Creek and the bouncing bridge…..Harleys and the Holabird Inn….Stepenwolf..Born to be wild. As luck would have it; the class after us got there orders before us. They went to hawaii, we went to ‘Nam. Ended up in I Corp..3rd Marine Division G2/G5 with 7th Psyop in DongHa. Then back to Fort George G. Meade. Looking back now, I wished I had stayed in.

    Comment by Pasquale Vallese — March 4, 2010 @ 12:36 pm

  239. Just remembered, we were assigned to 525 MI group in Saigon, but our plane broke down in Anchorage. We were stuck there over night. By the time we got thru the Phillipines, into ‘Nam, they had given away our assignments. Sent out to Saigon, then Danang, then Quang Tri, and finally Dong Ha. So much for an office job working with Westmoreland!!

    Comment by Pasquale Vallese — March 4, 2010 @ 12:50 pm

  240. What a great site…lots of memories here. I was in the MI Special Agent course in the fall of 1967, direct our of basic training at Ft. Gordon, GA, and went on to a one-year course in Vietnamese at Ft. Bliss. After that, spent most of my time in Viet-Nam as an agent handler with the 635th MID, Team 2 attached to the 196th LIB. I was also liaison to MACV folks in Tam Ky. Discharged in Jan.’70.
    Stopped by the Ft. twice since leaving the service — once in the early 80’s, I believe, and the last time a few years ago. On the first visit, I found a sign that used to hang over the gate to Holabird Ave., “You are now entering the most dangerous place on earth — an American highway.” The guard wouldn’t let me take it — she had no sense of history or humor. The second time there, the only signs of the fort were the old officers club (now a VVA chapter), the metal bridge and part of the “stairs to nowhere” near the oval track.
    — Bill Pritchard

    Comment by Bill Pritchard — March 7, 2010 @ 8:40 pm

  241. Pasquale (#239) My flight was also delayed overnight in Anchorage enroute to RVN. They put us up at the Anchorage Westward Hotel. That was in July 1971. Then arrived in country and assigned to 3rd Battalion 525th MI Group in Ben Hoa. Is that the same time you went over?

    Comment by Steve Schein — March 8, 2010 @ 5:28 pm

  242. Steve(241). We had the break down in November of ’68. We were in our Summer short sleeves, when we were removed from the plane and assigned rooms. They gave us $10 for breakfast, and I had to spend like $5 of my own, just to get 2 eggs, bacon, toast and coffee.
    If Bill Pritchard reads this…your name sounds so familar. Were you ever at Ft. Meade, or did I know you from Holabird. Facebook has a couple of pages trying to get started, for those who use facebook.
    Code name Poncho.

    Comment by Pasquale Vallese — March 8, 2010 @ 11:54 pm

  243. What a great site! I was a student at the Bird from Sept. 65 to Jan.66 (97D) and From Jan. 68 to May 68. The above comments brought back great memories. Does anyone remember a WAC by the name of Mary Tillman? I would love to get in touch with her, any one who remembers me.

    Comment by Bill Morrissey — March 10, 2010 @ 6:11 am

  244. Any one who remembers Mary Tillman can get in touch with me at marynbillm@aol.com I am also interested in John Farley, or Geroge Kirby. This is one of the most intersting sites concerning persons that were in the MI community. Bill Morrissey

    Comment by Bill Morrissey — March 11, 2010 @ 1:46 pm

  245. when i enlisted my reruiter was going over all these choices. none seemed to fit until he said he never recruited anyone for ais. allow me to be the first, he knew nothing and was all i needed to hear. ft knox next orders for holabird were posted 5th wk of basic=”duties as commander may direct”. i arrived sept 64 and was assigned to 97d training. halfway thru they offered perm party at holabird. i was from 90 miles from there,just married after basic and already saw the advantages fo duty at “the bird”. so i accepted and immediately arranged housing at essexshire gate apts. upon completion of the course i was assigned to dept of area studies. job title=asst instructor and while i had a lot of interaction with future agent handlers in many ways, 75% of my time and effort was overseeing the vault in das where the documents were kept and controlling distribution of said documents. i spent my entire 3 yr enlistment less basic at holabird. as such i can appreciate more than most what a unique pleasurable experience. for which i say thank you to the recruiter that knew nothing. it was already known that a future move to arizona was impending otherwise i may have reupped with the hope of a 20 year assignment to holabird, as realistic as that may sound. but alas i knew it was not to be. now as i approach 65 and my retirement for selling insurance arrives 103110 i look back on the place and people that laid the foundation for the rest of my life and say those three years from 0964 to 070467 were some of the best of my life frank stella

    Comment by frank stella — March 11, 2010 @ 6:03 pm

  246. I was in class B-2, 1948. Went from there to 66th CIC, Germany. Later to 115th CIC, Spokane Field Office. That has been one heck of a long time back. JFN

    Comment by John F. Nisley — March 22, 2010 @ 2:34 pm

  247. I was a student at Dlundalk University in 1948, Class B2. Since then I went the the Language School, at Monterey, CA. Two tours in Germany and one in Korea.
    Stateside I spent my time in Washington State. Those were good times and I miss them but dream about them a lot. JFN

    Comment by John F. Nisley — March 22, 2010 @ 4:25 pm

  248. Attended Ft. Holabird 1967 Intel Analyst. Graduated 2nd in class of 65. Ended up as Ch, Intel Br, Mil Intel Div, G2, Hq, 8th Army in June 1967.

    Chuck Searcy was in same class, Bob Orr.

    Comment by Bob Liskey — March 23, 2010 @ 11:33 pm

  249. Hi Everyone,

    Basic in Fort Jackson, June 65, then onto the Bird sometime in September, 96B20, went through all courses, DAME, DASE, Interrogation POW, was on the night shift, 12-6am, out of our class of 50, one got kicked out, 2 went to Redstone, two went to NAC center, actually on the post, and the balance to Nam. I was one of the lucky one’s, I stayed at the Bird. Great duty, five of us, 2000 civvies, mostly girls. Just one small story, a few of us, and a few good Beret frinds went down to Baltimore to have a 1000 drinks, beat up about 100 hippies, made the Sun’s headlines, (Naturally) but will always remember our punishement, stood in front of the General, (Townsend) and all he said was you did a GREAT job, next time do a better one, kill those bastards. Loved that guy.
    Lots more stories although mind is slippin a bit, but if anyone remembers me, love to hear from you. I also registered the domain; USAINTS.COM will build a nice site, could use your input.

    Nick Nolter

    PS

    Could also use some info if any of you went through “Area Studies”

    Comment by Nick Nolter — March 30, 2010 @ 4:42 pm

  250. Attended Intell School at Fort Holibird in 1971, looking for perm personnel (WAC) with the first name of Ivy.

    Comment by Star Lewis — April 2, 2010 @ 11:30 pm

  251. Love the stories and memories.

    Comment by John — April 9, 2010 @ 12:47 pm

  252. John(#271),

    What is yours?

    Comment by manny — April 9, 2010 @ 2:13 pm

  253. In the fall of 1967, while waiting for classes to start we spent several months doing Casual Duty and living next to a barracks of WACs. That was interesting. One casual duty was weekly (Wednesday) pillow and bed sheet collection from the school dorms. We rapped up 25 sheets per bundle and filled a truck with bundles to take to the Fort laundry, a large facility. There, since there was not much else to do, we would sack out on the huge piles of sheet bundles drinking coffee all morning until someone could figure out what to do next. I was young and had not much coffee drinking experience.

    Fort Holabird is where I learned to drink coffee (addicted) and probably why I ended up in Seattle the coffee drinking (Starbucks) capital of the world.

    I neglected to mention that I learned to drink whiskey in the evenings there, so I owe Fort Holabird a lot on forming my lifelong choice of beverages.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 16, 2010 @ 5:24 pm

  254. I arrived in late Oct 66 FROM Dix and like all of you, thought the Army had made a mistake. This could’nt be an Army post!! Went to 96B training and then to Ft Bragg awaiting shipment to VN. Came back again after VN for 96C. They goofed and thought I was going to re-up, otherwise I would have rotted at Ft Bragg waiting to get out. However, my duty at Holabird was very pleasant both times I was there. If you think it was good as a pvt, you should have been there as a student SGT. I had the world by the balls then. Even officers would say please and thank you. Spent as much time at the Holabird Inn as I did in class. Until I talked to someone from Baltimore, I thought Hamburgers was a restaurant.(clothing store) Do you remember we would pass underneath it every time we went downtown. (to the BLOCK)God it was great to be young !!

    Comment by Jim Smith — April 20, 2010 @ 10:14 am

  255. Sorry I didn’t stumble on this websiste sooner. Like many others, my arrival at the ‘Bird was a complete shock. I got there just after Easter in 1956 after a less than delightful eight week plus tour at Ft Dix. I recall that it was raining and my raincoat was somewhere in my barracks bag. As I got out of the taxi an older soldier approached and told me to be sure and get a receipt from the taxi driver, He then pick up my bag and led me into what turned out to be his office. When he took off his raincoat I could see that he was a Master Sgt. He must have seen the expression on my face as he remarked that I wasn’t in Basic any more and could expect to be treated like a human being. After signing in he took me over to the reception barracks and told me to pick a bunk. There was a bunch of guys already there, and we started to introduce ourselves. It turned out that several of us had mutual friends and fraternity brothers. I remember some names,ie. Bill Mattox, Moose Mitchel Beau Scott and John Donahue to name a few. With nothing to do we soon found the EM club and had a few beers. That was the first of many parties to follow in the next 16 weeks. We all wanted to go to agent school, but the army needed analyst that day so we became 971.3s
    You could tell the way the wind was blowing by the smells you encountered when you fellout in the AM. About the second week we were there, our platoon sgt, Jack Reilly took several of us to Baltimore for a tour of Easst Baltimore Street. Having lead very sheltered lives up until then. we were like little boys at the circus. There was a minimum amount of Mickey Mouse (CS) like Saturday AM inspections and Friday Retreat Parades. We all felt a little resentful at having to salute anyh car with an officer sticker on the bumper, even if it was being driven by a wife or daughter. We went to great lengths to avoid doing this. I remember a few funny incidents, but I will save them for another time. Bill Mattox, Bob Ruby,Dave Good, Don Grey and I ended up on the USNS Upsure going to Munich Germany and the 66 CIC. Beau Scott went to Japan. To make sure that the Army system of assignment held true, the three guys in the class that spoke fluent German were also sent to Japan. I have great memories of my two years in the CIC,and will share them at another time. My college roomate and fraternity brother ,Don Brown, was Clerk of the Works for the school at the time. He got there before me and was permanent party. I haven’t heard from him in 50 years, but would love to. Ed Delehanty ed-gail@juno.com

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — April 20, 2010 @ 4:50 pm

  256. Hello all. I arrived at Ft Holabird, from Ft Dix, in October or November of 1969. Started the 97D20 Course in Late November or Early December. By that time the “casual company” had been designated “C” Company and things were beginning to get more “Army”. They had started an NCO school, the “casuals” were being used to build asphalt sidewalks, that sort of thing. But I made the move to the “big building” and avoided the worst of it. I will remember that chain bridge to the day I die. That sign that stated “Break step going over bridge” must have been the most ignored command in the US Army. While a casual I remember being used as a “border guard” on a 97C exfiltration exercise at Sparrows Point. The ones we caught were interrogated in the old powder magazines of Fort Howard. Left in Feb or March 1970 for the 902d in Falls Church, VA. Then on to 702d MID in Long Bihn in March 1971. Took the Agent Course at Huachuca in April or May 1972. Joseph Bandiera “Peter Poor” had moved out there with the school and I am proud to say, completely resisted my efforts at interrogation in the “Fish Bowl”. Great Site. It is really good to hear from folks who were there. Through the years you sort of quit talking about Holabird, because you know no one will believe you.

    Comment by Farrell Tucker — April 21, 2010 @ 11:57 pm

  257. In 1956, we lived in wooden barracks. I remember the big brick headquaarters and my old college roomate lived there. I think there was a beer hall there too. Everybody seems to know of the old chain bridge, but I cannot place it. We were off weekends unless you had KP. I only had it once and was pissed off because I had learned I was shipping out to Germany shortly and wanted to get home to see my folks before I left. I did manage to do that a week or two later. In fact I got a ride to White Plains from our CO Jack Moran. Iam trying to remember the nome of the school First Soldier. He was a short stocky guy usually with a cigar in his mouth. He turned out to be a pretty good guy. Boniface Campbell was GIC. I think he was responsible for the Friday afternoon retreat parades.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — April 22, 2010 @ 9:52 am

  258. Hey, Bostick, how about John B. Sherman (P&O, G2, EUSA), Tom Mullaney (Intel Br, G2, EUSA), Bubba Lewis (MI Div, G2, EUSA), Neil O’Leary (OB Br, G2, EUSA), John Benkert (MI Div, G2), Bruce K. Grant (Civilian former agent handler 502d), McTaggart, LTC Martin (Ch, MI Div, G2, EUSA), LTC Sam Basille (prior Ch, MI, G2, EUSA), LT Tim Lewis (Ch, OB Br, G2, EUSA), LT Ken Chisolm, LT Stuart, Jim Houseman (Civilian Affairs, G2, EUSA), Richard MIller (Intel Br, MI DIv, EUSA assigned from 502d), SGT MAJOR Robertson (G2, EUSA), George Vukovich (MSG CTR, G2, EUSA), SGT Youngblood (MSG CTR, G2, EUSA), COL COURIS (USASSD), ….Some others on tip of beling remembered but mind not as sharp as it use to be.

    Comment by Bob Liskey — April 23, 2010 @ 10:28 am

  259. Thorpe (KMAG)

    Comment by Bob Liskey — April 23, 2010 @ 10:29 am

  260. Bob, none of these names jump out at me except Thorpe was he a 1LT but the more I think about it a Cpt. My memory is pretty much shot.

    Comment by Steve Bostick — April 23, 2010 @ 8:05 pm

  261. Steve(#260),

    Kind of funny how most of our memories are “pretty much shot” except for bits and pieces of Holabird. Still can’t figure out why?

    Manny

    Comment by manny — April 27, 2010 @ 8:51 am

  262. Manny,

    I think it might have something to do with all the “good” memories. I haven’t read any “bad” memories on this site. Holabird was so different from what we all expected when we got there whether from basic training or another duty station. I know I spent 3 great years there and have a ton of memories, almost all good. I just wish I could find more photos of the post. It is almost like it didn’t exist. I have a 8mm home movie, about 2 or 3 minutes long but it is very grainy and not much detail.

    BILL

    Comment by Bill — April 27, 2010 @ 11:28 pm

  263. Bill,

    Might be interesting to post it on YOU TUBE.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — April 28, 2010 @ 12:23 pm

  264. Fort Holabird Photos:
    There is now a “Fort Holabird” Facebook page where photos can be attached. There are also three very good books with pictures of the BIRD, 1950s, 60s, early 70s. The books are part of the Army Lineage Series, written by John Patrick Finnegan. They can be purchased on the inter net and can be found at some libraries. The first book is “Military Intelligence” 437 pages. There’s also “Military Intelligence A Picture History”,195 pages and “The Military Intelligence Story, A Photographic History”, 153 pages. There are a few Fort Holabird photos in all three books and the CIC-MI history is a nice read.

    Comment by RF — April 28, 2010 @ 1:28 pm

  265. Like a lot of other poster – arriving at Holabird was a eyeopener. Went to Bragg for basic Feb 67. Arrived at Holabird in Apr-May 67. Class date was for Jun 67, Casual till class. Remember a Sgt Adank as part of reception group. Good guy once you got to know him. After class ended was set to go to OCS. This was cancelled because of lack of degrees. About 9-10 got order for RVN. Went home to Va before leaving. But got a call from the Pentagon recinding order to RVN – back to Bird. Went to work in MIOAC as clerical. LTC Preston Davis was the OIC. Remember a Cpt Stackman. Harry Bressler – Staff Sgt from Johnstown Pa. Finally got order for OCS. Problem was that I was not going back to MI but to Inf. Thought that was not a good idea for 1968. Thought about it for 2-3 minutes. Turned down. Next orders for RVN May 68. Assigned to 525 MI then to 55Th MID in Nha Trang at IFFV. Was in Kontum when I ran into classmates fron Bird on way home. Ended up extending for a addition four months to get an early out. Wanted to go back to college in fall but missed but 10 days. Got home Sep 69. Met a lot of great people at the Bird . Wish that I had note full names and Hometown. What a difference from basic. Was treated like a regualar human being by Superiors ant the Bird. I feel that part of the success that I have ahd in life is do to there influence . My extention was supposed to keep me in Nha Trang but ended up with Task Force South in Dalat then Phan Thiet at LZ Betty . Thanks for reading. John Doyle

    Comment by John Doyle — April 28, 2010 @ 1:30 pm

  266. Manny, I will try to get the film posted (I will have to ask my kids to help me).I will have to find it first. It might take a few days. I’ll let you know when (if) it happens.

    Comment by Bill — April 28, 2010 @ 11:53 pm

  267. Bill,

    Thanks and let me know the site.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — April 29, 2010 @ 4:55 pm

  268. Anybody remember George Gilmore? He was Assignment Officer at the ‘Bird sometime during the 60s. I served with him and his wife Betty in the 66th Field Office in Munich.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — April 30, 2010 @ 3:49 pm

  269. Manny, I finally got the 8mm movie posted on YouTube. Just put in Fort Holabird in the search box. The first 17 seconds are blank but then it runs for about 4 minutes. It is a little grainy and turn down the sound so you won’t hear the annoying clicking of the old movie projector. Enjoy.

    I think I took this in 1967. It is about 4 min. long. Turn down the volume so you won’t hear the annoying sound of the old 8mm film projector. What I remember:

    Post Chapel

    Post Library

    Movie Theater

    Students Barracks/Parade Grounds (Note the train moving in the background)

    Colgate Creek (hold your nose)

    School Building

    Test track/ball field

    BLANK FOR FOUR SEC.

    Colgate Creek again

    Post Dispensary

    A friend, Gary

    Old Tank/Jeep Test Track

    Headquarters USAINTC with Gary and the Sphinx (which is which)?

    Old wooden trestle going over Dundalk Ave and through the post

    Old PX

    Permanent Party Barracks

    Main gate and Main Street

    My nieces and nephews for about two seconds..

    Sorry for the long post

    Comment by Bill — May 1, 2010 @ 7:17 pm

  270. Thanks Bill…..the 8mm home movie brought back some memories…I was surprised how much stuff I did not remember………..Thanks again for taking the time. You should post it to the facebook Holabird page.

    Comment by Pasquale Vallese — May 3, 2010 @ 4:51 pm

  271. Hi Manny,I will.
    It brought back many memories for me too. I hadn’t watched it for a while. It was a great place to spend 3 years.

    Comment by Bill — May 3, 2010 @ 6:56 pm

  272. Manny, I tried to post it on Facebook, it said it was too big and it didn’t support that type of file (??) I left instructions to view it on YouTube.
    Bill

    Comment by Bill — May 3, 2010 @ 11:58 pm

  273. Thanks to Bill Leach who worked for me in 1965 for this link, and also for his 4 minute Oscar winning movie.
    It as a cool and foggy day when I emerged from the Harbor tunnel in May 1959 and took a right on Holabird Avenue. What a dreary area I thought. After checking in and settling, and hungry, I drove back west, then north, then west again on EAstern Avenue. After passing by Patterson Park and through that section of the city, I thought to myself, “Is this all there is to Baltimore?” Only later did I finally get downtown!

    Quite memorable was the situation of the Bird. When the wind blew from the west, you could smell Lever Brothers soap factory. if the wind was from the South, the Fleishmann’s yeast factory. But… from the east? Baltimore’s sewage facility.

    Yes, I remember General Prather. Was he succeeded by a General Coverdell? The Sphinx! ah yes, it’s motto, same for Intelligence corp, “Ask me no questions and I’ll tell you no lies.”

    Attended a short 5 week course of orientation and then the photo interpretation course, leaving about November of that year for Ft Bragg and the old 519th.
    Anything was better than Bragg, so signed up for Russian language at Monterey, CA and after that back to the Bird in October 1961 (the Berlin wall had just gone up) for 9668 training. Someone mentioned the Fort which is Fort Howard. That was where we landed one cold and snowy night in order to “infiltrate” and check out our targets.
    anyone remember the Brentwood Inn with it’s wine cellar? Someone did mention Haussner’s a favorite place of mine with it’s art on the walls.

    after that off to Germany for three and half years, but back to the Bird September 1965. And that is where I met Bill Leach and his buddy Nesbitt who worked for me in the S2 shop of Troop Command (Col Wimberley was CO).

    After that it was ‘Nam as an advisor to Vietnamese National Police in Saigon. Our little shop later achieved infamy as Operation Phoenix.

    Sigh! Thanks for the memories.

    (email is hlunsford@bellsouth.net)

    Comment by Harlan Lunsford — May 4, 2010 @ 4:28 pm

  274. Bill,

    Thanks for posting the film. Just finished watching it. Boy, so much one doesn’t remember.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — May 5, 2010 @ 10:18 am

  275. I posted here last year. Found some paperwork from Holabird recently….all original. Some names to ponder (last only): Raycraft, Van Burk, Biegelow, Blemker, Coomes, Davis, Diamond, Dickinson, Dignan, Garner, Getter, Gody, Gorsky, Hofmann, Kunkler, Luehrs, McNichols, Murphy, Nielson, Ommen, Palmquist, Roeder, Smith, Stemme, Talerico, Trader and York. Orders dated 23 June 1967. FYI…any names ring a bell? Ron Mahinske

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — May 5, 2010 @ 5:39 pm

  276. thanks for this post mate. hope you have a good day. thanks. 🙂

    Comment by mike milton — May 6, 2010 @ 9:18 am

  277. I posted a few pictures on FaceBook – Fort Holabird.

    Comment by Bill — May 6, 2010 @ 9:36 am

  278. There’s gotta be a few guys besides me who were there in 1956. I kow I’m getting old, but I can still walk and talk.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — May 10, 2010 @ 9:31 am

  279. Ed #278),

    Some of us were there in ’56. Where you Permanent Party?

    Manny

    Comment by manny — May 10, 2010 @ 5:02 pm

  280. No Was in a class. My college roomate Don Brown was Permanent party. He was School Clerk of the Works. My class started around the first part of April and ended about the middle of June. Shipped out and ended up in Munich arount the First of July. I remember a Lt. by the name of Jack Moran was our CO at the school.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — May 11, 2010 @ 3:24 pm

  281. Ed,

    What was “school clerk of the works?” The works stymies me. Nor does Don Brown ring a bell. We had a clerk named Don Davis (law degree from University of North Carolina and a pfc) and a Don Redddick, an undertaker from Washington, D.C and also a clerk, place unknown.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — May 12, 2010 @ 11:38 am

  282. Clerk of the Works just an expression. Don Brown was Company Clerk for the School, or so he told me. Come to think of it, there may have been more than one school going on at the time I think he was clerk for the school for agents and analyists. 10 years later, my brother Steve went through the school. He ended up in ‘Nam. When he came back he got on the faculty and taught servailance. He would bring the class up to White Plains where my family lived at the time and do a problem. He enlistsed my mother to stand on the corner with a newspaper under her arm etc. etc. They made her an honorary member of the Ft Holabird faculty, with an official certificate presented by some Major or Col with the appropriate cermony in her dining room where she would feed the class after the problem.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — May 13, 2010 @ 12:52 pm

  283. Thanks for the memories, I was at Ft Holabird in 1969 from March-May taking an Intelligence Analyst course. We had some great Marines in our class as well, and one weekend we got into a brawl on the softball field playing members of another class. I remember the gritty sports bars in the area, going to Pimlico, seeing the Orioles, going to a Jimi Hendrix concert, the EM club and the famous pig sisters.

    Next stop, Vietnam.

    Regards to all. LK

    Comment by Laudizen King — May 15, 2010 @ 5:52 pm

  284. when i was graduated col rutledge was director of instruction and col elvin dalton and lt col thomas hessler were my bosses as commander and asst of das during my 3 yrs there also remember ssgt ken sawai head nco major joe eng, security officer, w/o peterson, had a different joke every day civilian employee and reserve general bellin, we used to bowl during lunch hour, majot ted switty, air force and close friend. during some lunch hours all of us including the colonels would play volleyball together. all gentlemen and a pleasure to work for and with. sorry for the many others not mentioned but it would be too long a post. get more of you named next time. some of you that trained w d/as will no some of these instuctors i am sure fondly

    Comment by frank stella — May 15, 2010 @ 11:45 pm

  285. post 284 was for time period 10/64 to 07/67 time frame

    Comment by frank stella — May 15, 2010 @ 11:46 pm

  286. Attended eight week Officers Intelligence Course during April and May 1970 after two years in Vietnam. As a Navy guy, I attended using an alias! Did anyone else enjoy this experience?

    Comment by len — May 18, 2010 @ 9:49 pm

  287. Regarding post above by Steve Shein: When were you at 3rd Bn at Bien Hoa. I have been trying to remember the LTC’s name and you mentioned it: Colonel Wentzel. I left in Sept. ’71 and he was still there. I was the SGT E5 who worked in the front of the S3 shop.

    Larry Hamilton

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — May 19, 2010 @ 1:46 pm

  288. …for any of you who served with the 511th MI Company please feel free to come visit our web site at:

    http://krookmcsmile.tripod.com/511thMICompany.html

    …this includes those who served with the ROs and BROs from 1960 to 1980. There are more than 100 former members who receive our newsletter. (106 newsletters so far)

    Former commanders LTC Leonard Spirito & LTC Thomas Dooley are a part of the email group.

    Salute!

    Comment by Gary Behymer — May 19, 2010 @ 2:05 pm

  289. I got there in Aug 1970, after Basic at Ft Polk, waited for TS clearance for a month doing lots of KP. I was amazed to see brick barracks. All I was familiar with from visiting my uncle at Ft Ord and SF Presidio in the 50’s and 60’s, and Polk was old wooden buildings constantly being cared for by grunts like me. So, I went through the 97B course, had a blast every weekend in DC and Arlington after becoming friends with a fellow classmate, Ernie Buck. Some might remember him as “Dirty Ernie”. We both stayed on as instructors (pretty sure we were drafted) and, in my case, with absolutely NO prior combat, or military experience, went on to teach classes in Interview/Interrogation, Tactical CI, Survielance, and my favorite-SouthEast Asia Orientation for soon-to-be S2s, J2s. At first that was a bit intimidating for me, a new PFC, but after a while it became fun. I was one of the last to make the move to Arizona when the school moved. THAT was a change. No more brick. I suffer from Can’t Remember Sh.. and don’t recall many of the names of some great people that I worked with. Audited the DAME course at Huachuca. Being a Rabbit during a surviellance exercize in downtown Tucson in 1972 was not the same as running the Block back in Baltmer, as they pronounced it. Back then it was 6 square blocks and just about everything was closed on a Sunday. I miss the class parties, working with those crazy actors and trying to get the lesson point through to the hung over SEAL or SF E-6 cleaning his finger nails with a dagger.

    After almost 3 yrs of USAINTS I went on to ROK and, again, stayed where I entered, assigned to the ASCOM Field Office, fun times, great people, and interesting work. Then back to CONUS to Ft Riley dor my last 60 days, oops, got there just as they were all going to play war games in the mud in Germany and I couldn’t go. I almost stayed, but since DIS took my job, I would have had to get a new MOS with no guarantees, so that was that. I have seen Ernie a few times since then, but no one else. I have a few photos of Huachuca area, but nothing from Holabird. Names I remember: 1LT Ron Pratchal and his broken ‘Vette, SFC Ralph Griest, SGT Dennis Alred, SGT Bill Keeney, SGT Russ Turner, SGT Ernie Buck…
    Thanks for this site.

    Comment by Dave Anderson(Sacramento, CA) — May 21, 2010 @ 8:56 pm

  290. Regarding Post # 287 by Sgt Larry Hamilton, yes, I was in 3rd Bn, 525th MI Grp, Bien Hoa. Got there in July ’71 and LTC Jim Wensyel was the CO. Wensyel was a great boss and he had been my CO at Region 1, 108th MI Group in NYC and got me assigned to his unit in Vietnam . I was a 1st LT as was a friend, Bill Coughlin from upstate New York. I think the XO was Maj. Macias (he reminded me of Ernie Kovacs). There as a senior NCO named Noel (can’t remember his last name) who I think first came to RVN in 1963 or 64. As I recall, Noel was pretty good on the ping pong table we had in the club. We shared our Bn Hdqtrs compound with a MIBARS unit and a dental unit. There was a Cpt Mike Skidmore who was the S-4 and was from West Virginia. When he rotated back to the “WORLD” he was replaced by Cpt Roy Allen. The guy who ran the club on the compound was named Mike Lamantia and I think he was from Staten Island, NY. It was a great compound with movies nightly and a live show weekly. The bands used to show up in mini vans long before the vans became popular in the USA – mostly Phillipino groups who somehow managed to sound exactly like the bands they covered. We had chopper pilots assigned to the battalion, one of them we called, “Doc”. The two of them partied very hardy and flying with them was always interesting. As pay officer, I flew with them each month to our detachments in Tay Ninh, An Loc, Zuan Loc, Vung Tau and Cu Chi. Someone’s pet monkey in Cu Chi grabbed my badge & credentials from my shirt pocket and ran off with them. That was an interesting chase & recovery operation. Who knew about the tunnels under Cu Chi back then?

    Comment by Steve Schein — May 23, 2010 @ 9:37 pm

  291. I think this will work. Remember, the first 18 sec. are blank then it starts.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqmCVoEjsWY

    Comment by Bill — May 23, 2010 @ 11:33 pm

  292. Re: Post #290. Lt. Schein. I remember the Lt. whom you replaced as pay officer. Many of the men I worked with were leaving about the time you arrived in country. I worked closely with the Ops. Officer, Major Weyand (had he left by the time you arrived?). Until shortly after Xmas of 1970 I was a case officer at one of the teams down the road at Bien Hoa and remember going to Cu Chi (I think it was headquarters of 2/25 infantry division). I remember reading about the tunnels there after the war (was glad I was ignorant of them when I was there). Before you arrived, I believe in April of ’71 the chopper went down and all four on board were killed. I have found sites on web with the names of those individuals. I remember the incident quite vividly as the LTC thought I was the best and fastest typist in the unit so he had me type all the letters he wrote to the families of those killed(was a very emotional experience for me).

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — May 24, 2010 @ 11:08 pm

  293. The bus trip sounds familiar. It seems that everyone arrives at the “Bird” in the middle of the night.I was in the last enlisted 97B class, 97B11. Does anyone remember Smenow’s (spelling ?) Tavern just outside of the main gate.

    I had the opportunity to wax the floors of the OLOG Building 2 days before it was torn down. I ended up at the Ft Lewis Field Office, 115th MI Group.

    Comment by Mike Hanlon — May 26, 2010 @ 8:49 pm

  294. Waxing the floors of OLOG two days before it was torn down sounds like the Army that I remember. I was afraid things had changed. Some things did. We wore brown shoes. Ed Delehanty

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — June 1, 2010 @ 6:10 pm

  295. Ed,

    That’s the Army for you. In early January, 1955, upon entering basic training, we were issued brown low-quarters. By June of that year orders came down that low-quarters were to be dyed black. Planning ahead Army style.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — June 2, 2010 @ 5:46 pm

  296. Manny, you just reminded me of the old phrase
    “brown shoe army”.

    Harlan Lunsford

    Comment by Harlan Lunsford — June 3, 2010 @ 1:31 pm

  297. I came from Fort Ord, California to Fort Holabird in 1958. I’d finished school at UC-Berkeley but I turned down OCS; took the French language exam in Basic training and was told to go to the Intelligence School! Being African American made it difficult for me out side of the post. Baltimore was segregated. I remember two white friends sat with me in the balcony at a movie house in Baltimore to see South Pacific. I could not go to our graduation party because the club would not allow me to enter. I was scheduled to go to SHAPE headquarters in France but an NCO told me, “No way.” I went to Stuttgart, Germany. I made great friends and got to travel over Europe. I am still in touch with one friend who was in the class ahead of me but who also was in Stuttgart. Great memories.

    Comment by Jerry Wright — June 5, 2010 @ 5:14 pm

  298. BOSTICK,,,ur name sounds very familiar. I was with the 502nd from 72 to 73 and saw what happened when the ROK White Horse battalion returned from VietNam. By that time ASCOM was reduced to just a few US bodies. We went from a 10 man field office to 2 when I left. But before that I was teaching CI at the Bird and later, Huachuca. Do I remember you from there, maybe? With CAPT Harris, USMC, CI?

    Comment by Dave Anderson(Sacramento, CA) — June 6, 2010 @ 8:54 pm

  299. My husband had an entrance physical at Holabird Sept. 1970,the VA has said that they have lost all of his medical records and they also said that no one had a physical at Fort Holabird during that time.We are surching for anyone who had a physical there during Sept.1970.Any help we can get would be greatly appricated.
    Thank you& God Bless
    Liz Bright
    jb0039@yahoo.com

    Comment by Liz Bright — June 7, 2010 @ 10:33 am

  300. Now some 40 plus years later, I find memories of Fort Holabird to be both vivid and increasingly assertive. As so many of you have retold, they were interesting times and each and all of us remain as witness.

    Was a student at Holabird in early 67, did a year in Vietnam in 67 and 68 at 519th MI bn./CICV and then returned to alma mater in mid 68 and remained there as an instructor until the end of September 69 (ETS). I lived in building 110 and taught classes out at the Barn, bldg 320 and bldg 1. Worked part-time evenings sliding beers and ersatz hamburgers across the counter at the 123 Club. Good times, mostly great folks.

    What remains of Holabird in clearly evident on Google Earth (mainly the Officer’s Club with its filled-in swimming pool and that odorous anchor of many a recollection: Colgate Creek. The best parts live on in many a memory … the way it’s supposed to be! Still have fond memories of closing the NCO club and then walking down to Squires for a pizza and more brew. Anyone remember a tall curly headed Squires’ waitress named Colleen?

    Alas, growing up is vastly overrated!

    Regards all!

    Tom Coughlin (fargowest@cableone.net)

    Comment by Tom Coughlin — June 15, 2010 @ 4:39 am

  301. I was an early post-Holabird 97D trainee at Huachuca, coming back later for 97B training. The instructors and support people there were still waxing nostalgic about “The Bird,” mainly I think because of the conspicuous absence of nightlife in Sierra Vista.
    I had no idea that draftees had ever been routed to the Intel School; it seems…incautious to give a high level clearance to somebody who’s been rousted from his peaceful occupations by conscription. I know I would not have been happy about it. It must have felt odd, swearing to uphold a constitution that prohibits involuntary servitude next to a bunch of conscripts; by the time I went in, the draft was suspended.

    Comment by Marc de Piolenc — June 15, 2010 @ 8:02 pm

  302. Almost all of the draftees were given SECRET clearances. All of the Agents and Coordinators had volunteered and given TOP SECRET clearances.

    Comment by Bill — June 16, 2010 @ 12:12 am

  303. I was a draftee and got a top secret clearance as did the rest of the class. This was in 1956 so things might have changed since. I remember in one class that we were asked if we knew of any Communists or fellow travellers amongst our college professors. I don’t think they got too many names. Some of our instructors felt that the coalminer’s song, popular at that time, was subversive. We were also asked if anyof us would like to volunteer for CIC Airborne.
    Again, no takers.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — June 16, 2010 @ 10:18 am

  304. Draftees and RA’s both were eligible for Top Secret and Secret clearance in the mid-50′ as both worked with the same materials and there were far more draftees in intelligence (probably based on education and IQ).
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — June 16, 2010 @ 4:34 pm

  305. From 1965-1968 I worked in S-2, Troop Command for the school where we issued or validated the security clearances for the students and permanent party. In almost all cases, the draftees were not issued Top Secret clearances. They might have been issued at there next duty station on a need basis. All the agents and coordinators were volunteers not draftees.

    Comment by Bill — June 16, 2010 @ 11:37 pm

  306. Oh the memories! I was assigned to the Bird in 1971. Got there and no one knew where I was supposed to be or what I was doing there. The CSM gave me a choice, he would find me a job or put me up for the first available levy. I decided to stay and I became a driver for LTC James Howard who was the Headquarters Commandant. What a great assignment! I would drive to DC and spend my days being a tourist. Came down on levy seven times but was deemed critical to the Bird. Finally left there in 1973 when the Command moved to Ft. Meade.

    I have been looking for some of the old timers from the Intel Command:

    LTC James W. Howard
    James Schlicher
    The Skori brothers
    Doug Magnani
    Marilyn Hanna
    Laurette Sturm
    Sonnie Williams
    Sally Kimbell

    If you know where these folks are now days or you were at the Bird from 1971 to 1973 drop me a line at: big_al_oh@yahoo.com

    Comment by C. G. Alvord — June 27, 2010 @ 11:21 pm

  307. I stumbled across this site as I was searching for a definition of what a 97D40 MI Coordinator was! Apparently, it was a secondary MOS I had and never knew it! I, recently, received my complete file and saw the listing. If anyone could explain what a 97D40 did I would appreciate it. I got sidetracked reading all the posts on this site and never continued the seach! Really a great trip!

    I was a 97B40, CI Agent, and in the Army from January `68 to December `70. I read a lot of the posts with amusement, and interest, in things I forgot, bringing back many memories of Holabird and surrounding establishments – especially Squires. I had to laugh at some of the posts on first reactions to Holabird directly out of Basic. I experienced much the same thing arriving late on a Friday night via train from Ft. Bragg, called the Fort and they sent a SGT to pick me up – thought I as in trouble! Also, being in Casual Company for two months (March to mid May) with an SSGT in charge, who was always happy as long as we were there on Monday morning! One day a 2nd Lt appeared changing all the assignments – he lasted about two days and we were back to normal, at least normal for Holabird! Or, being in class and attending afternoon sessions, getting to sleep late after partying the night before. A new SSGT in charge of quarters didn’t like that and sent us out picking up cigarette butts, early in the morning. However, he did not realize the area he sent us was in the vicinity of the School Commandant’s quarters who happened to appear and questioned why we were not studying on our free time – the SSGT was gone that day!

    I went through the Agent’s course from May to September `68 and was well beyond lucky being assigned to the New Haven, Connecticut, Field Office, 108th MI Group, where I remained for my whole tour! As I recall, my entire class got assigned to Field Offices throughout the US. After graduation from Holabird I never had a uniform on, again, until the day I processed out! Spent the majority of my time doing background investigations and, of course, the era of “spying on civilians” covering campus and anti-war demonstrations. Hardly any military life involved, and most of the time it was difficult to remember you were in the Army! We were far enough from our Regional Office in Boston that no one ever bothered us. Other than to process out I only went to the Group Hdqtrs, Ft. Devens, MA, once to pickup a new car! New Haven was only 80 miles from my home on Long Island, so I was there all the time – it was like a commute!
    One funny little thing that I took a lot of ribbing about – my RA service number ended in 007!
    Frank Pavlak (fpav@aol.com)

    Comment by Frank Pavlak — July 1, 2010 @ 11:08 pm

  308. Frank, a 97D40 compiled the reports from all the agents, FBI, local police, and military records on a “subject” , the object of an investigation (BI or NAC) to determine the course of action to take. Most of the time it was weather or not to issue a security clearance.
    A 97B40 could be used as a coordinator if needed and a 97D40 could be used as a 97B40 if needed.(rarely).

    Comment by bill — July 2, 2010 @ 11:15 pm

  309. GREAT SITE !!! I served FAFO, 113th MIG, Chicago from Mar 1965 to Aug 1967. One of my SAC’S was Bill Yantis.
    I would like to talk to him if you can forward on my email address!!! I have info on George K.B. Choi that he mentions in his posts, also Civilian employees that he speaks of.

    Thanks again,
    Bob Davey

    Comment by BOB DAVEY — July 5, 2010 @ 12:10 pm

  310. Went to Holabird in 1962, right out of basic at Ft. Jackson. Completed the “Coordinator” course and was assigned to the 109th INTC Group working out of the US Customs House in Baltimore. I returned to Holabird in 1965 for the “Agents” course and was shipped to 401st, later changed to the 710th in Honolulu, Hawaii. Would enjoy hearing from anyone who might remember me. adjusterr@myactv.net

    Comment by Ron Amos — July 6, 2010 @ 12:44 am

  311. Bill: Thank you for defining what a 97D40 did. Now I know where all those Agent Reports went!

    Comment by Frank Pavlak — July 6, 2010 @ 11:40 am

  312. Like many others, I also stumbled onto the site, just like finding the Fort. Who would have believed it was so small after the Basic Training forts we all attended. I think Jim runs the blog and kudos to him for an excellent site. His archives are also worth a look! Thanks to Bill(?) for the U-Tube video. I can’t believe any more of us took the time to document the place. I’ll bet those of us who served outside of CONUS have more pics. Any chance of getting them uploaded by MI Group on the site?

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 7, 2010 @ 3:21 pm

  313. Bruce, have you checked out “Facebook”?
    “Fort Holabird Alumni” and
    “United States Military Intelligence”

    Comment by bill — July 7, 2010 @ 11:07 pm

  314. Fort Holabird Photos: Check out post 264 referencing three authorized books with pics from the “Bird” and other intell installations. You may recall there were no pictures allowed at Holabird Graduations..not many photos of anything..discretion was a factor and probably LIDMAC, which was preached constantly. On the 97D MOS, they were generally those under 21 years old not yet allowed to carry B/C’s until cross trained.

    Comment by RF — July 8, 2010 @ 11:15 am

  315. CONUS Agent Reports (AR’s) ended up at the Central Records Repository, or the “barn” as we called it. First left before the RR tracks. Most of the blog posts deal with the School. A tour of the Repository would have been equally impressive. The records went back to WWII, at least, and were all on paper. The storage area and movement of dossiers from the stacks was something I’ll never forget. Can’t imagine how long it would take to computerize them. Dossiers of people of “extreme interest” would require shopping carts to get them to the civilians who reviewed the reports. Retired officers, DOD civilians, and a smattering of Permanent Party. Truly, an amazing combination. An indivdual named fnu Doyon(sp)had the time to collect what he called “Doyon’s Collected Errors” from AR’s. If anyone knows him, or has a copy, you owe it to the individuals who wrote them to post it. It’s a classic only Holabird’s would appreciate!

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 8, 2010 @ 4:58 pm

  316. Stumbled on this site and spent several hours reading the comments. Wow! It was a great trip down memory lane. After basic training at Fort Jackson, SC,I arrived at Fort Holabird in April 1965 for the 97B Agents Course. My route to “the bird” mirrored that of many of my classmates, college; then a job while I sweated out the draft. The draft finally caught up with me in January 65. While at the induction station, a silver tongued recruiter convinced me that an extra year of enlistment in Intelligence was better than the Infantry. Many of us were smart-ass college boys with little affection for the military. Our unofficial class song was the “Mickey Mouse Club Song, which we sang with great bravado in the barracks to protest any task that we thought was unnecessary harassment. We yelled “chair-borne” when dismissed after marching to class. Fort Holabird was like a small college campus with just a small amount of the military BS, like morning police call, KP, and marching to class. Baltimore was a fun city. Just didn’t have the pay grade to fully enjoy it. After graduation, my first assignment was the Jackson Mississippi FO, a small office with just three of us. My Holabird classmates teased me when they learned that I was going to Mississippi, land of racial tensions and klu kluxers, but it was a great place to work;lots of driving and knocking on doors. We covered more than half of the state. Best of all I met my wife there. From Jackson,MS I was sent to the 201st MI Detachment, Uijonbu, Korea in late 1966. Things had started heating up in Korea the previous year and continued to escalate in 1967. I worked in the Special Operations Branch(SOB) and had contact with five ROK Division CIC units stationed along the DMZ. Things got very interesting at times. The ROK’s were real “kick ass” soldiers and good people to work with. Left Korea in January 68 and back to the land of round eyes and big PX’s for discharge. My time in Army Intelligence was well worth that extra year of enlistment. I cherish those memories and experiences. Anyone out there who may have crossed paths with me or shared experiences, please contact me. jonsucone@comcast.net

    Comment by John M. Cone — July 8, 2010 @ 9:29 pm

  317. Bill, I checked out Facebook and unless I’m doing something wrong it doesn’t hold a candle to this blog. I saw your post and the pic of the bar, nothing else. Jim, or anyone else have any ideas where to upload pics of the 525th, 135th, and Saigon during Tet?

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 10, 2010 @ 3:56 pm

  318. Jim of Parkway Rest Stop here. I am amazed at the response this blog post has received. As many of you know, it was the last of a series of posts I did about basic training. I did not include any information about what happened after training at Fort Holabird, because I didn’t think it would interest most of the people who visit the blog.

    Given that this post has drawn an audience of MI Types, I will share some stuff that MI Guys would “get.”

    Virtually all the interrogators in classes prior to mine went to Vietnam, and I had assumed that I would also be assigned to Vietnam. As it turned out, the assignments were largely driven by language capability. The guys who spoke Korean were assigned to Korea and the guys who spoke German (I was among that group) or East Bloc languages were sent to Germany. We had a guy who spoke Italian (Charlie Scudder), and he was sent to Italy (only a few miles from his parents’ summer home). The guys who spoke no foreign language or who spoke French were sent to Fort Hood, after which I presume then went to Vietnam.

    I was assigned to the 511th MI Company in Nuernberg and from there to the Border Resident Office in Passau (part of FO Cham). There were about five or six of us there, and it was great duty, except for the all-too-regular visits by officers on “TDY” to “inspect” the place on their way to spend leave time in Austria. They really loved to visit the office, because one of the interrogators stationed there (Ray Potter) happened to have been a Wurzburg-trained chef who, prior to being drafted, was the chef for the Governor of Florida. Filet Wellington seemed to be the favorite of the visiting officers.

    Once, one of the visiting officers asked Ray for some salt, and Ray ate his face off. “Sir, I spent hours preparing this dish and it absolutely does NOT need salt.” Another time, another high ranking officer asked Ray for Ketchup, and I thought Ray was going to have a stroke. “Ketchup? On my filet Wellington? Absolutely not!” I figured that outburst would get all of us transferred to the Mekong Delta, but I guess the officer realized that, even though the BRO was an Army Installation, our dining room was not a mess hall and Ray was not a mess cook.

    Many more stories. I’ll hop in once in a while and tell them.

    THANKS for visiting the site.

    Jim
    Parkway Rest Stop
    http://parkwayreststop.com

    P.S. The rest of the Army Stories are here:

    Greeting.

    Army Underwear.

    “You Must Have Cheated!”

    Test Day. The Sergeant, and the Wannabe “Remington Raider.

    Army Glasses.

    Night Infiltration and the Pathetic Mondo Kane Turtle.

    A.W.O.L.

    Vertical Butt Stroke.

    Sick Call.

    K.P., The Great Lie, and the Potato Mountain.

    Fort Dix Quickies.

    Spit, Polish, Graduation, and Orders.

    Fort Holabird or the Twilight Zone?

    P.P.S. If you email me photos, I believe I can post them. Not sure, but I think I can. jim@parkwayreststop.com

    Comment by Jim — July 10, 2010 @ 4:52 pm

  319. Jim, THANKS for a great site. I have spent too many hours reading and sometimes re-reading the posts here. As I said in an earlier post, you never read any negative stories about Holabird. It seems like everyone had a good time there.
    I hope this site never ends.

    Comment by bill — July 10, 2010 @ 11:31 pm

  320. I’m a guy from Indiana who got called for his draft physical in fall of 65. Not wanted to be drafted to do whatever Uncle Sugar could find for me I thought I’d see how I could help myself by enlisting. Took all manner of tests at the recruiters office and the AFFEES station in chicago and came back highly scored said I could have whatever job I liked. Spent 2 months poring over books looking over jobs that I felt would surely bore me to tears of get me ground up. The recruiter was getting exasperated and one day out of the blue asked me if I’d liked to try the Intelligence Corps. I didn’t have a clue but Sarge said no worry we have a SAC upstairs. Take you up to meet him and he’ll check you out with some questions. Nice guy, questions ok, then he gave me an essay to write 500words while he was outfor lunch. It was on some geopolitic subject which I forget now but must have impressed him cause he asked me back and offered me the special invite. Not much about what I’d be doing.Two days later went to Chicago on the South Shore railway from South Bend,IN. Stayed one night at the YMCA hotel then walked the two blocks to the station to test again and another physical. Thought being a Hoosier I’d be going to Ft Knox, KY. No such luck. Kept about 300 of us around O’Hare airport Terminal at the Butler Aviation site. Bout 9p 3 decripit old Lockheed Constellation Airliners taxied up and cut engines. The beckoned us in. THe seats and trim worn and funky. After we loaded us we settled in and after start they informed us we were headed to Alexandria Air Force Bace where we would be met by Army motor transport from there to Fort Puke, Louisiana (POLK) Our plane had water in the window panes which froze into ice cakes above 18,000 ft. Another had an engine fire near Bolwling Green and dropped out for repairs. There for next 10 weeks we were separated and reordered to move to other areas and learn to live,dress and act soldierly. Mostly we were cold and hungry. As the end of training came our cadre started to take we intellilgence recruits aside and give us some visit with hight ranked and experienced people who began to give as a fair description and assessment of what the next line of training would be.. I finished on time so Ft Holabird sent me to the bird. I took a weeks leave at home then bused it to the School. I steppd out of a cab at a totally unprotected gate w one MP who helped me get my stuff and self to the orderly room for class of new 66B, C D & II. Met a cool Top Sgt that informed us our classes would start later and we were casual companies,, I started on lawwn detaul cutting and weedeating all day, then one day I got a break. another little private was using powered shears and nearly cut the other cutters fingers off. Guy fainted. I still had my Army and Civil Air Patrol first aid training current, I saved the guys fingers and the sarge has no command blowback. Now he my new friend. He say I need a better job He takes me out and intro me to the guy tht takes care of the colonel at the HQ Finds me now driver to the schoolNow im doin fine. I get to move lout I’LLbfing the senses…….it getting there. i’m gettin out wanna bust and see a glimprseoo-of ahhhohhhh get heading w all force to intercept the WAC
    yes…..the big ome if she comes/////. The one remembered as the big amazon princess, the red head the only CHERYL STANLEY THE PRINCESS OF THE NCO CLUB wHERE DID SHE GO.

    \\\\

    [[[

    SSSIII

    Comment by Jeff D. Rowe — July 11, 2010 @ 5:31 am

  321. Jeff(320):

    Need a cryptologist fast to decipher the latter part of your posting. I’m sure we have a few reading this so go ahead code breakers.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — July 11, 2010 @ 9:44 am

  322. Jeff(320):

    Don’t remember your PRINCESS OF THE NCO CLUB, but she’ll have a hard time competing with one from 1968. Her name was Judy (Ching) Lee, from California, I believe. Not Oriental, red head, or an amazon. Good figure and drove a convertible. Base MP’s, Special Forces, Marine students, and Permament Party will all remember her, and I don’t mean it in a disrespectful way. Addendum: Bill, you should be the first to try the picture post that Jim has offered. Especially, after the movie. Bring your stuff from Facebook over. If it works I’ll try next.

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 11, 2010 @ 1:39 pm

  323. Manny;
    Apparently the lingering effects of drinking Colgate Creek’s bubbly has endured after reading comment #320.
    Ed Hotchkiss (187)

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — July 12, 2010 @ 11:49 am

  324. In looking for the name of a movie that my husband and I saw in the spring of 1963 on the post of Ft. Holabird, I discovered this website. What a great website!!! I do believe I’m the only wife that has made a comment as most of the men were young and not yet married. My 2nd Lt. husband, John Waddell, had graduated from Texas A&M and his whole class of 1962 had been advised 1) not to marry prior to entering the Army, AND
    2) not to buy a car. So, what did my sweet hubby do? Both!
    I read that some of you are interested in pictures of the post so I dug out my slides and found one photo of the Sphinx which was a statue probably located near the entrance of Ft. Holabird.
    My husband would have gotten a kick out of this website, but unfortunately, he passed away in 1992. Other pictures I have are of the main street (Dundalk Avenue?) in Dundalk and of the apartments where we lived, as well as a snow day and our snowman! The apartments were unique with a series of “A” line roofs…Some of you might recall them.
    Being from Texas, the snow was a novelty…and our next assignment….wouldn’t you know….was to Ft. Hood!
    I’ll be glad to send photos to anyone….as I was only able to find “Military Intelligence” on Facebook, and there were no entries.

    Comment by Mary Lou Waddell-Coughlin — July 13, 2010 @ 9:09 pm

  325. Here is my stuff from FaceBook:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqmCVoEjsWY

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=288623728874#!/group.php?gid=288623728874&v=photos

    I hope it works.

    Comment by bill — July 13, 2010 @ 11:42 pm

  326. Don’t forget, the first 14 sec. of the video are blank, wait.

    Comment by bill — July 13, 2010 @ 11:44 pm

  327. I attended 96B training in the spring of 64. Have you ever wondered what details WACs in casual status got stuck with? The weather had been stormy and windy. The WAC detachment lst Sergeant had me crawling around in the mud under the WAC detachment barracks cleaning up cigarette butts & other junk which had landed in there during the stormy, windy weather.

    After the 1st Sgt released me for the day, I went into the barracks, and headed straight for the latrine. Peeled off everything and threw clothes into the washing machine. Took a shower to get rid of the mud. Then used some paper towels to clean the shower and the latrine floor, before heading back to my cubicle. Picture one very bare assed female who had initially forgotten that the window blinds were all at half mask. I ducked low, and headed for the other end of the barracks. Hadn’t gone more than a few feet when I heard footsteps coming up the outside stairs. Decided to move faster. Heard the 1st Sgt announce, “Man in the barracks!” I flew into my cubical. Care to guess how long it took me to get into prescribed uniform while I listened to approaching footsteps? I suspect that’s a record that held up for years to come.

    My 96B (Intelligence Analyst) class had 4 Special Forces NCOs, 4 Marines, & 1 WAC (me). The rest were Army men. About 1/2 were privates–some draftees, some enlistees. About 1/2 were NCOs. I only remember one name: Gunny Sergeant Marion Rose. I’m sure about his 1st name, and the remark he made to an Army SFC who tried to give him a hard time. “If it’s good enough for John Wayne, it’s good enough for me.” (John Wayne’s legal name was Marion Morrison.) I know Gunny’s last name was immediately after mine on the class roster. Fairly sure it was Rose.

    The laugh of the day came with the first roll call: Names A-Q are read from roster, followed by Reames. I responded “Here, Sergeant.” from the back of the room. Next name, “Rose” gets a deep masculine voice, saying “Yoo-ah” from Marine in front row. The entire class cracked up.

    At the end of the 1st week of class we were told to form up into groups of five for an exercise which lasted several hours. Even then I knew which members of the class would end up high in the class standing. The Special Forces and the Marines. The Special Forces added an Airborne Ranger to come up with their team of 5. The Marines added me to their team. I stayed on the Marine team for the rest of the 96B training. I learned a lot from those Marines–all of it positive stuff. They were a great bunch of guys.

    You’re right. Fort Holabird was a major change from Basic Training at Fort McClellan, Alabama. I’ve many fond memories of the place and most of the people there. This web site brought back even more great memories. After leaving Fort Holabird, I ended up at the Presidio of San Francisco working in G2. Thanks for keeping this web site alive. It’s great to read all those comments. I’d enjoy hearing from students who were at Ft. Holabird in the spring of 64. Cheers, Owl@Redshift.com

    Comment by Helen Reames — July 15, 2010 @ 4:10 am

  328. I attended 96B training in the spring of 64. Have you ever wondered what details WACs in casual status got stuck with? The weather had been stormy and windy. The WAC detachment lst Sergeant had me crawling around in the mud under the WAC detachment barracks cleaning up cigarette butts & other junk which had landed in there during the stormy, windy weather.

    After the 1st Sgt released me for the day, I went into the barracks, and headed straight for the latrine. Peeled off everything and threw clothes into the washing machine. Took a shower to get rid of the mud. Then used some paper towels to clean the shower and the latrine floor, before heading back to my cubicle. Picture one very bare assed female who had initially forgotten that the window blinds were all at half mask. I ducked low, and headed for the other end of the barracks. Hadn’t gone more than a few feet when I heard footsteps coming up the outside stairs. Decided to move faster. Heard the 1st Sgt announce, “Man in the barracks!” I flew into my cubical. Care to guess how long it took me to get into prescribed uniform while I listened to approaching footsteps? I suspect that’s a record that held up for years to come.

    My 96B (Intelligence Analyst) class had 4 Special Forces NCOs, 4 Marines, & 1 WAC (me). The rest were Army men. About 1/2 were privates–some draftees, some enlistees. About 1/2 were NCOs. I only remember one name: Gunny Sergeant Marion Rose. I’m sure about his 1st name, and the remark he made to an Army SFC who tried to give him a hard time. “If it’s good enough for John Wayne, it’s good enough for me.” (John Wayne’s legal name was Marion Morrison.) I know Gunny’s last name was immediately after mine on the class roster. Fairly sure it was Rose.

    The laugh of the day came with the first roll call: Names A-Q are read from roster, followed by Reames. I responded “Here, Sergeant.” from the back of the room. Next name, “Rose” gets a deep masculine voice, saying “Yoo-ah” from Marine in front row. The entire class cracked up.

    At the end of the 1st week of class we were told to form up into groups of five for an exercise which lasted several hours. Even then I knew which members of the class would end up high in the class standing. The Special Forces and the Marines. The Special Forces added an Airborne Ranger to come up with their team of 5. The Marines added me to their team. I stayed on the Marine team for the rest of the 96B training. I learned a lot from those Marines–all of it positive stuff. They were a great bunch of guys.

    You’re right. Fort Holabird was a major change from Basic Training at Fort McClellan, Alabama. I’ve many fond memories of the place and most of the people there. This web site brought back even more great memories. After leaving Fort Holabird, I ended up at the Presidio of San Francisco working in G2. Thanks for keeping this web site alive. It’s great to read all those comments. I’d enjoy hearing from students who were at Ft. Holabird in the spring of 64. Cheers, Owl@Redshift.com

    Comment by Helen Reames — July 15, 2010 @ 4:11 am

  329. There is a facebook site entitled 525th MI Group Vietnam Veterans.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — July 18, 2010 @ 9:11 pm

  330. Added Pre and Post Tet pics to that Facebook site. Since I’m a Facebook newbee, I hope they work. Sorry about the quality.

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 22, 2010 @ 4:37 pm

  331. Wow. A trip down Memory Lane. I was a mere “Intelligence Analyst” but loved my time at the bird – Sept through Christmas, 1966. We actually had to carry a pass – 400 miles max distance from the bird – w/o a valid plane tickket.

    But I could go all the way home to Gloucester MA on it.

    My arrival story was virtually identicle. Asked all kinds of people how to get to Holabird. Not a clue.

    Thanks for the memories.

    Cheers, Tim

    Comment by Tim Harrigan — July 27, 2010 @ 9:16 pm

  332. Don’t know if I mentioned, but I did basic at Fort Ord in the fall of 1968, then Holabird from Jan-May 1969. My MOS was 97B4 and from Holabird I went to the 66th MI group in Munich, then a week at the 527th MI company in K-town and the rest of my time at the Karlsruhe Field Office on Smiley Barracks. I attended German Language School at Hopkins Barracks just outside of Oberamergau. I left the Army in September 1971.

    A friend of mine who went through the same course and now lives in Annapolis, MD, a few years ago sent me some pictures of the school. All boarded up, barbwire and rust everywhere. From those pictures he sent, I have no recollection of even going to that school.

    I do fondly remember Colegate Creek with the foul smell and of course the wobbly bridge.

    Love this website. If anyone wants to contact me by email my addy is : jwashington@vtc.net.

    Comment by John — July 29, 2010 @ 3:43 pm

  333. 525th MI Group, Tet Offensive, Saigon. MAJ Lee Hoskins and CWO2 Mary Bender. “She was responsible for holding off the VC entering the Meyerkord Hotel and securing that Field Office”. Sadly, she has passed. Family is searching for Silver Star testimony. I only have second-hand information.

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 31, 2010 @ 4:56 pm

  334. Went to Polygraph Course with Mary in early 1970 annd was assigned with her in the old 902d during 1971 – 1973 timeframe. Unfortunately do not kknow anyone who could help with the award. I knew her son was looking for information for some time.

    Comment by Don Clifton — August 2, 2010 @ 5:22 pm

  335. Great site. It came up on Google when I was checking out a story I had heard about the place being converted to a vocactional college—sad it is not true.

    I did not see any mention of the Military Intelligence Corps Association http://www.micorps.org where for a small annual fee you get an ID card and magazine and you can get a membership in the Pentagon Federal Credit Union if you apply as a former MI type. I find its VISA card useful for web purchases. It is amazing how fast you get the refund on a bad purchase when you mention that it is on your Pentagon card!

    The magazine is not nearly as informative as this site on the history of Holabird, but tells what the current MI types are doing and mentions the old place occasionaly.

    I got to Holabird in Fall 1968 and voted there for my first time—had to take my absentee ballot to the CO and explain to the CO why I was voting for the Democrat. I have enjoyed retelling that story ever since when there is a discussion of our bringing democracy to places!

    My college deferment was up and a friend suggested MI so I talked to an agent, very mysterious, out in an small cold office on Staten Island, as I recall. He had me do an essay and I was able to write for several hours, restating my major seminar paper on warfare in Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Cuba, etc. Apparently it was ok.

    After basic at Fort Jackson I did the 97B course and the creek smell, typing class, polygraph classes and bouncing bridge are all fun to read about here.

    Our class was almost all enlisted college grads and one day some important officer came and asked if we wanted to be officers and was very upset when one guy, from California as I recall, said we were all enlisted as we did not want to be infantry officers and asked what our secondary mos would be. He said Infantry and the class laughed. I assumed we were doomed, but he just left. No one signed up. We had a couple of E6 and above in the class and they did not associate with the rest of us, particularly after that episode.

    Most all classes ahead of ours got orders for Vietnam, but the Russians invaded Czechoslovakia and when we came back from Christmas leave, telling our families we were going to Vietnam, we mostly got stateside assignments and a few to Germany. I got sent back to Fort Jackson, South Carolina and spent two and one half years there.

    That is a story for another day. I think most of it is still covered by some document I signed not to talk about it?

    I have been back to Baltimore a number of times and never made it out to beautiful Dundalk but the waterfront and downtown sure have changed! I really enjoyed watching the HBO series WIRED. Get it for a real flavor of Baltimore.

    Again, great site–thanks for keeping it going.

    John Tait Holabird January 1969

    Comment by John Tait — August 2, 2010 @ 7:05 pm

  336. I recall visiting the “Block” in Baltimore while stationed at Ft. Holabird. We went to visit Blaze Starr’s “Two O’Clock Club”- she came on to perform at midnight and we had to be back on base by then. Next to her club I seem to recall a club called “Ronnie and her Twin Liberty Bells” – go figure.

    Comment by John — August 4, 2010 @ 3:29 pm

  337. This site brings back many memories all good except KP. I was in the last 97B class at the “Bird”. The barracks were deserted with only 2 floors in use. We had a Marine contingent. At the Friday formation, the lowest ranking 2LT got stuck with the inspection. The Marine NCO told this unlucky LT that Marines were only inspected by Marine officers. The LT went to the Officers’ Club and got one very drunk and pissed off Marine Major who did a 10 second inspection of the Marines and a 30 minute private talk with the NCO.

    Army 2LT were then authorized to inspect the Marines.

    We all felt pretty bad for the Marines who were put at Parade Rest while the Army company was dismissed. Those poor guys stood formation for 30 minutes until the Major showed up.

    Comment by Michael J. Hanlon — August 4, 2010 @ 4:10 pm

  338. I was assigned to Holabird from May 63 until my discharge in Feb. 66. I enjoyed it as much as anyone can. Went to school as a 974 MI Coordinator, then assigned to the G3 Training Division and later when the Intelligence Command was shifted to Ft. Meade, I was the senior enlisted man (Spec. 4) in the S-3. I enjoyed the Holabird Inn, the Greek Liberty Cafe which was close to the corner of Holabird Ave. and Dundalk Blvd.,the Roach as we called it across the street from the main gate as well, and Harley’s subs. I lived in the big brick while in school and then a bay in the HHC and later a room that was occupied by a SSG who made his rank in his first enlistment and hung himself in the room because he had a security violation in the Publication & Visual Aids Dept. The violation was not worth hanging. I escaped KP because I was involved in some social activities at the Fort including becoming the Boy Scoutmaster. Since the committee chairman for the troop was the IG, my focus was on work as it was and on other things which led to my getting a direct commission. I remember Karson’s Inn and McMahon’s steakhouse which was close to the rear gate by the Wherry apartments, and taking the bus to downtown Baltimore. Spent some time at the Enoch Pratt library and John’s Hopkins. There was an Italian restaurant by John’s Hopkins called Joe Tess’s ro something like that, and the owner hated dark skinned people and carried a pistol in his cumberbun. One of my pal’s was a draftee from Perth Amboy, NJ and was Sicilian and I am sure a member of the family as was his Dad. We went into this Italian eatery and Joe asked him to leave, before getting an earfull in Sicilian tainted Italian. Lots of memories.
    All that is left of Holabird now is the officers club and pool. Even the restaurants I mentioned were torn down. McMahon’s was special because the t-bones were good and cheap. We made so little money compared with soldiers today that you had to spend wisely. Gone is the Fisher Body plant as well. All of that was a part of my young life.

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — August 9, 2010 @ 3:30 pm

  339. Restaurant correction: The Italian restaurant close to Little Italy was owned by Danny Canalas (sic), not Joe Tess. There were a couple of fancy places on Eastern Avenue as well, one whose walls were covered with artwork. The Inner Harbor was still loaded with ships and old sidewheeler packet boats that ran between Baltimore and Norfolk, though I do not know if they were still in business. I spent some time on the FTX committee of the school and we did some training exercises with the diesel submarine in the 9th Naval District, tied up by Fort McHenry. Does anyone remember the wooden Q-Boat assigned to Holabird with an enlisted crew. The ships master was a SSG.

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — August 9, 2010 @ 4:29 pm

  340. Marc,I remember the Q-boat,I pulled night watch on it in Nov.66. See comment #187.

    Ed. Hotchkiss

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — August 10, 2010 @ 3:47 pm

  341. Ed – I just read your entry #187 and found it interesting. We used the Q-boat for training missions to the Vietnamese village we built at Fort Howard, which was an old coastal artillery fort and had a VA hospital. We also did some night infiltration training using a diesel sub from the Navy who had a minimal crew of reservists operating the sub. I remember when a Navy shipbuilding crew chartered the Q-Boat for a holiday weekend cruise. There were Navy officers and enlisted men on the Post, working on the stretching of two ammunition ships at Maryland Shipbuilding & Drydock Co. These guys were tough to say the least. Anyway, the boat left Dundalk with the Army crew and went south on the Potapsko River and then the Chesapeake Bay. Monday morning, the Post Commander, Colonel Major, received a call from the USCG that our boat was foundering close to Capt Hatteras, and everyone on-board including the crew were drunk. One of the engines was out of service and the deck was loaded with beer cases. The USCG said they would tow the Q-Boat back to its pier but they were going to charge Fort Holabird for the cost. The boat’s captain as he was was demoted to an E-5 and moved to the motor pool and the boat had to have some serious repair work done on it which the Navy paid.

    Fort Howard and the training village was an experience unto itself, especially when we had WACS involved. Best regards! Marc

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — August 11, 2010 @ 9:37 am

  342. Marc-thanks for the Q-boat story,I got a chuckle out of it!
    Ed. H

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — August 11, 2010 @ 7:34 pm

  343. In late 1965, I arrived at Holabird and began 97B40 training. I spent so much time writing names down in the years thereafter, I developed a very poor memory. Seeing many of the instructors’ names in these posts jogged my memory…somewhat.

    The only classmates I remember from my 97B40 group were Wilson F., S. Ganoli (Dude, you totaled my VW when I let you use it for a “hot date” one night!) and “Tex” whose real name also escapes me.

    F. ended up in VN… was maimed by subjects of a CI investigation who targeted a claymore at him an his associates. Last time I saw F. was in Charleston, SC 10 years after I left the Army. He was paralyed from the waist down but had become a local expert on reconstruction of historical buildings. (Is there any way to locate other classmates?)

    One poster mentioned an instructor who “hated communism.” That name “rings no bell” but the information I learned in his classes at Holabird still serves me well today. I’m thankful for this patriotic and educational aspect of Holabird.

    (Quite frankly, I’m blown away when I now realize what a formidable educational institution was assembled at Holabird. No-one ever mentions the value of military-based training when comparing educational fasilities.)

    Most memorable moment? The “Rabbit Chase” that began “on the block” shortly after the “blizzard of ’66. What a trip… I still laugh when I think of everything that happened!

    Oddly missing in these posts are any references to our nation’s “political history” of the last 30+ years.

    The collective memories of what Holabird “alumni” have learned and observed (and the lessons learned from your experiences) could be far more valuable to our nations’ citizens than anything they can possibly glean from the words of our “politicians” and politically-biased agenda-driven “journalists.” …Especially in light of current events in our nation. What you’ve seen in other countries can offer much-needed perspective today. Speak out!

    I was transferred from Holabird to the 3rd MID in Wuerzburg Germany whre I served until being discharged in August 1968. Sent to German language classes at the intelligence school’s Oberammergau location.

    I grew to love the German people and their culture and have since become an evangelical missionary focused on the Germans living in the “new German states” that were formerly the East German Nation.

    (Anyone worried about the direction of our nation would benefit from the curricula of Holabird….. I’ve ended up studying much about the Stasi… The KGB trained secret police. Read recent news about 12 Russian agents? Check out this eye-opener and ask “Why Not Here?” http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,635230,00.html)

    Thank you all for serving!

    Thanks for the memories!

    Comment by Dan Scarborough — August 15, 2010 @ 3:21 pm

  344. After reading about the Q-boat, an interesting memory about one of our “exercises” was triggered. For some reason, all of the members of our group were not tasked to the “Viet Nam Village”… but we heard an interesting story about what happened there.

    In our group there were two agents who were named “Brown” and “Jones” … real names. Looking at both standing together one would think either “Laurel and Hardy” or “Mutt and Jeff.”

    Seems Brown and Smith were assigned to interrogate a VC suspect at the village. While in a room there, they found out that their VC was a “bomb-maker.” They began delving for more facts and asked him “How he made the bombs.”

    Their suspect was a very cooperative, “creative,” and innovative VC. He quickly agreed to show them “how.”

    Subject: “Give me that shoe box!” Jones quickly responded. “Now, I need a rubber band and a pencil!” Brown was able to help out with that request.

    The “Subject” placed and doubled the rubber band around the box, carefully inserted the pencil… then wound the rubberband several times with the pencil.

    Then he announced “This bomb is now armed… Don’t make a move or I will blow us all up!”

    Jones was sitting at the table with the suspect and was unable to react quickly before the Suspect let the “rubber band detonater” begin spinning, but Brown jumped out the doorway. Since he was the “survivor” of the “bomb blast” he had to “write the report.”

    Brown’s report was admirable (considering that all he had to “shoot” the VC Subject was his inoperable pistol and loud voice… His discription of the events and the “sounds of war” were memorable.

    Somewhere in the annals of Holabird is an agents Agent Report, undoubtedly kept by Frau Kleck as an example of accuracy and brevity.

    Brown’s AR recorded the above details very accurately… including the “sounds of the conflagration.” He succinctly closed his AR with the following words:

    “…Subject grabbed bomb. Brown jumped out door. Brown drew weapon, pointed same at Subject. Brown went “Bang!” Bomber went “Boom!” and we lost Jones!”

    Great theater… Thanks to Holabird.

    Comment by Dan Scarborough — August 15, 2010 @ 4:01 pm

  345. Evidentaly spelling was not one of the subjects in this great educational FACILITIES!

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — August 18, 2010 @ 12:36 pm

  346. Response to previous comment(#345).Colgate Creek’s bubbly should not have been consumed.

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — August 18, 2010 @ 3:16 pm

  347. Where was spellcheck when this site was created?

    Mea Culpa!

    The old Underwoods were not similarly equipped either.

    Comment by Dan Scarborough — August 18, 2010 @ 8:23 pm

  348. Although I was at Holabird in 1956, I thoroughly enjoy reading about what came about before and after,(spelling glitches and all) My brother was also there, in 1966 and spoke of the submarine etc. He ended up in ‘nam, and then returned to Holabird as an instructor. He would take his survailance class to White Plains for an exercise, and enlisted our mother to stand on the street corner with a newspaper under her arm waiting for the correct password to susrrender the document. Afterward they would all go to our house for dinner. A fine time was had by all, and they made mom an honorary member of the facullty, with a framed certificate, signed by the CO.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — August 19, 2010 @ 10:39 am

  349. My recollection from 1967, is that the typewriters were all German made Olympias. Great machine.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — August 19, 2010 @ 6:13 pm

  350. Spelling “glitches” are a perfect subterfuge for undercovers. Really hides your “smarts.” Stupidity is a great cover. How is that for a great rationalization guys.

    Manny
    Class of of “57”

    Comment by manny — August 20, 2010 @ 5:47 pm

  351. Manny, we could have used a man of your talent in Munich in “56, 57,& 58.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — August 20, 2010 @ 7:22 pm

  352. Bill Yantis where are you????

    Bob Davey
    muniprotruckman@gmail.com

    Comment by BOB DAVEY — August 20, 2010 @ 8:18 pm

  353. We did have Olympia’s when I was at Holabird from 63 to early 66. One of the reasons Colgate Creek would smeel in the Summer was due to the yeast plant that was on the edge of the property. The Rinso Blue laundry soap plant would do something on some summer days that would blow blue soap granules that would get through the screen in my room and lay on the little desk that my roommate, Sp.4 Joe Foster and I shared. Since we had no air conditioning, the hot Summer nights were miserable with the odor from the yeast plant and whatever else was floating in the air.
    I was involved in surveillance training for a while and we took students downtown. We used the Hochschild Kohn department store as a place to train, with one instructor being the subject of surveillance and the trainees following them around the store without raising any suspicion as to what they were doing. An instructor who knew the trainees would surveil them and grade them. One cold wintery evening, my partner and I finished the day and dressed in suits and carrying our ID’s and .38, were waiting to be picked up front of the Baltimore Bullets arena on Baltimore street which was getting busy because a game was going to be played that night. We are standing there freezing, and a rookie cop comes up to us and arrests us for scalping tickets. Of course we said this was nonsense and did not identify us as Army and working, since he wanted to talk like a lawyer. So, without frisking us, he marched us over to one of the famous Baltimore Patrol wagons who took us to central booking not far away. Well, everyone was being processed and when it got to us, this rookie tells the sergeant that we were scalping tickets and acting suspicious. The sarge asked us for ID’s and we pulled ours and presented it to him and he was very, very surprised as was the rookie. We told him our story and then put our 38’s on his desk. Needless to say, he became furious at the rookie who was suspended for awhile, and he got a cruiser and driver to take us back to Holabird. The Main Gate MP’s were surprised to see us in a police car and everyone had a big laugh afterward but not the police. Interesting times!

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — August 22, 2010 @ 9:14 pm

  354. Marc,

    When did this occur as we Headquarters folks used to laugh about some of our inept agent trainees. The suspicious person arrest where apparently more common than just your groups. Now I realize that the trainees may have had equals on the Baltimore police force. So much for TV’s “Wire”.
    Manny

    Comment by manny — August 23, 2010 @ 8:38 am

  355. The Bird and the mock Viet Namese village at Ft Howard:
    Groups from Holabird training classes would go to the village as interrogation participants. The young LT’s would practice grilling us. You should have seen the flushed looks on their faces when we pulled fake explosive devices from under our clothing as the interrogation was ending. End of final exam.

    Comment by RF — September 2, 2010 @ 7:41 am

  356. I found this website last week on the 40th anniversary of ETS. I joined the Army at 17. I was 4th generation army (even my mother had served as a combat nurse in WWII.). My brother was in VN and my sister was somewhere over there, so it seemed the right thing to do. After basic at Dix (I had turned 18) I arrived at Holabird. Same bus ride as you except I was motion sick when I arrived and some guy tried to steal my duffel when I was trying to find my way on to a bus. I remember descending into a cloud when we got to the fort and the smell was something else even though it was January, 1968. It was Friday so they dropped my in casual company barracks. On Saturday I am wandering around and I come into a dayroom and there are all these guys lying around singing “George of the Jungle” to the Saturday morning cartoon show. Once I found out there was not much to do I hooked up with a bunch of dependent kids riding bicycles down the old jeep ramps (probably the closest I ever got to getting killed). A couple of days later some old corporal (they said he was a MOH recipient but he never wore anything) took me over to the barn to help him with some WWII records destruction. When I told him that I didn’t know if I had a clearance yet, he said he knew I was ok so it was ok. Go figure! Then we found out the schools were backed up to they dispersed a whole lot of us to the domestic operations for OJT training that never materialized because of the Rev. King assasination. After that it was all Garden Plot. I spent the next thirty months at the 108th HQ’s trying to wash the block, 1,2,3 club and some energetic ladies out of my system. I met some of the greatest and most intelligent people during my time in. I thank God that I saw how things really work. Hope all live long and prosper.

    Dave Edmonds

    Comment by David W.Edmonds — September 6, 2010 @ 2:07 pm

  357. Dave,

    What was “garden plot” and where and what was the 108th Hqs.?

    Manny

    Comment by manny — September 7, 2010 @ 6:27 pm

  358. Manny, I believe the 108th MI Grp was headquartered at Ft Devens, MA. Before Vietname, I was assigned to Region 1, 108th MI Grp in NYC and I believe our Grp HQ was Ft Devens (Devins?) No info about “Garden Plot”

    Comment by Steve Schein — September 10, 2010 @ 9:34 am

  359. Manny, Go to this link for details of Garden Plot. If you Google it, there are numerous sites:
    http://cryptome.org/garden-plot.htm

    Comment by Steve Schein — September 10, 2010 @ 10:36 am

  360. Steve is correct. The 108th MI Group was headquartered at Ft.Devens, MA. It covered all of New England and New York. I was an Agent in the New Haven FO, CT. We were in Region III, with Headquarters at the Boston Army Base, which was really just a big warehouse converted into office space on a pier across the water from Logan Airport. Region III covered CT,MA,NH,VT and Maine. As I recall, there were FO’s in Hartford,CT;Providence, RI; Boston, as well as New Haven. There might have been one in Springfield,MA,and one of the larger cities in Maine. I think everything else was covered by small Agent office’s. I can’t remember where Region II was, but I think upstate NY. As Steve noted, Region I was NYC, lower Westchester County and Long Island. I know there was a FO in Garden City, LI, but I think everything else was covered out of the Regional office.

    “Garden Plot” was the government’s plan for the military to cover domestic civil disturbances, which evolved into campus and anti-war demonstations and anything else that came close! Here is a web site explaining it: http://www.uhuh.com/control/garden.htm

    Frank

    Comment by Frank Pavlak — September 10, 2010 @ 10:50 am

  361. Dave and Steve,

    Thanks.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — September 10, 2010 @ 4:25 pm

  362. Region 1 of the 108th was headquartered on the 13th floor of 26 Federal Plaza in Manhattan. When we were there, the FBI was at 201 E 69th St. Now the FBI is at 26 Federal Plaza and I’m not sure where the MI unit that covers NYC is headquartered. The NYC Field office was also with us there. Additionally, we had field offices in Brooklyn (at Ft Hamilton), in Bronxville, in Newburg (at Stewart AFB) and on Long Island in Garden City at the Marine Corps facility on Stewart Avenue. I may have missed a field office as it has been 40 years since I was “Scoping out” PSI investigations for the region.

    Comment by Steve Schein — September 10, 2010 @ 8:00 pm

  363. Steve – thanks for jogging my memory. I had forgotten about the office in Bronxville. When I first got to New Haven my territory was the Greenwich, Stamford, Norwalk area and north above Danbury. I remember if we developed a lead immediately over the “border” we would first have to call the adjoining FO before venturing into their area! After a few months I switched to what we called our “big” area from just east of New Haven to the RI border and would have to do the same thing with leads and the Providence FO.

    We actually has a piece of the NYC territory with Fisher’s Island. Although it is part of NY it was easier for us to get there than Agents from NY. I only had a couple of occasions to go over there and rather than taking the ferry I would get a ride with the Coast Guard out of New London!

    One of the guys in my Holabird class (9/4/68), Jim Picinich got stationed in Garden City, but was moved into NYC. Sounds like he might have been there when you were. Also, a guy in my high school class, Pete Smith-Johanson, was in NYC at least in 67 & 68, then went to DC. Wonder if you knew either one. There was another guy in my class who was stationed in NYC, but can’t remember his name – I will have to find my old address book.

    Thanks for jogging my memory.
    Frank

    Comment by Frank Pavlak — September 10, 2010 @ 9:26 pm

  364. Hey Frank, Was stationed at Region 1 from 1970 to 1971. Some of the names I can remember are Capt.Don Truxell (Truxall?) New York FO and Captain Finney, Rgn 1 Hdqtrs.
    Lts Stan Mesnick and Paul Hessel (Hessel?)were both attending law school and assigned to Rgn 1.

    Bob Harding was at Rgn 1 and Bill Hartry was at the Brooklyn FO(an old timer when I was there.) He helped me to get reassigned there from G-2 office at Ft Hamilton where I worked for Maj General Walter M. Higgins. I was the general’s liaison officer to the Post Office and helped to put together the operation plan for Operation Graphic Hand, when the Post Office went on strike and National Guard was called up to move the mail (post office to post office, not to deliver to homes). I wound up spending the better part of a week living at the main NYC post office across from Penn Station. Bill Hartry introduced me to LTC James Wensyel, CO, Region 1 who helped to finagle me over to his command. Also wound up (with a little help from him) assigned to LTC Wensyel’s command in Vietnam (3rd Bn, 525thMI Grp Bien Hoa). Great guy to work for.

    Comment by Steve Schein — September 11, 2010 @ 8:47 am

  365. Going back to 354: This happened in 1965. Do you remember the Emergency Reserve Force, made up of HHC personnel who were to defend Baltimore if the USSR attacked us? I worked in the G3 Training Division, with Col. Carter as the G3, SGM Wolsak as the senior NCO. My buddy Bill Hyndman who was a draftee went to the 974 program with me and worked for Wolsak. The Training Division was led by one of the meanest looking men I ever met and yet one of the best who ended up being a mentor: L/C Uldrich H. Pettine. One of the sharpest “reserve” officers we had in the Tng. Div. was Capt. Charlie Scanlon, who was an EM and then went to the University of Miami and back to the Army. He retired a few years ago as an O-8 MG in the intelligence services. Col. Bernard P. Major was the Deputy to the CG of the Intelligence Command and Center, and later became the Post commander. Great man. I later went to work for a big guy, Col. Cook, who was the Intelligence Command IG. I remember in 1964, one of the first serious planning meetings at Holabird regarding Viet-Nam. Nobody, including the Publication & Visual Aids Dept. of the school, had a map of Viet-Nam or SE Asia. The senior officers were incredulous. While they went through regular channels to get the maps, Col. Cook postponed the meeting until a couple of guys who were detailed to go into downtown Baltimore to a map store, to buy some maps. Interesting times.

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — September 14, 2010 @ 7:44 am

  366. http://classicrings.com/mercantool/catalog/Army/branches_and_command/AR-28.html
    I got my ring in July 09 and now the price has gone up $120 probably due to hikes in gold prices. Wish now I had chosen the diamond option.

    Comment by John Washington — September 21, 2010 @ 6:56 pm

  367. I would like to contact Sidney Beauford Scott of Virginia who was in my class in the Spring of 1956. Can anybody help?

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — September 22, 2010 @ 12:12 pm

  368. Reference Comment #333,seeking information for Silver Star Citation – CWO2 Mary Bender. Recommend that you try the following web site: http://www.homeofheroes.com/valor/replacement_metals.html

    Comment by John M. Cone — September 26, 2010 @ 6:25 pm

  369. Stationed at Holabird Oct 59/Jan 50. Attended the Photo Interpreter’s class. MOS 969.3. Stationed with the 8th MI Detachment, Bad Kreuznach, Germany through Jan 1963.

    Comment by David W Craig — September 27, 2010 @ 4:48 pm

  370. Re. #367: Buford lives in Richmond, VA. Business is Scott and Stringfellow at (804)780-3233.
    Charlie Larus (Holabird 1954-1955)

    Comment by Charlie Larus — September 30, 2010 @ 7:46 pm

  371. Wow. What a great story. My first duty station out of Boot Camp was at Camp Pendleton, CA in August ’66. The following month, I received orders for USAINTS at Ft Holabird. I was only 17 at the time and asked why I was being sent to an Army base. I was told that I couldn’t attend the Navy Air Intelligence School because I was going to VietNam soon and would be with the grunts. Hence, my orders to USAINTS at Ft Holabird. I attended the Intel Analyst class. Interesting educational experience, but very different culture on the base. Lots of draftees plotting in the barracks at night as how to resist anything Army. They tried to influence me, but I had a really mean Marine SSgt who made it clear I was to stay the hell away from draftees. Like the author, I thought this place was the Twilight Zone. Very, very different. Thanks again!

    Comment by John Gonzales — October 2, 2010 @ 1:18 am

  372. For some reason I remember the Fort Holabird library – a well-stocked place for an Army post and a nice quiet place to read. A fellow 97B, Scott Settle, made good use of the library and also that bar that was right across the street from the front gate, the Holabird Inn.

    Comment by Gerald Petievich — October 2, 2010 @ 12:40 pm

  373. I went to IPW training at Holabird in Nov 1965-Feb 1966, was previously for 10 years an engineer who lucked out and went to DLI for Bulgarian. Got to know the OIC CPT Warnicke and have seen him on an off here in Seattle at church on Easter every year. Lived off post with wife and kid. Spent the next 17 years in MI mostly in Germany with 18th MI.

    Comment by Art Farash — October 4, 2010 @ 12:04 pm

  374. Hi guys,

    I find it very interesting after so many years to remember the MI and to see that so many others do too. The 108th Headquarters Group was an interesting mix of Ivy Leaguers and Street kids who had tested well. A long timer said to me that the Army was a lot of crap, but what we had was a better grade of crap. Most of the guys were either finishing off their enlistments after being in Vietnam, or just lucked out and got to spend the whole tour at Devens. We were ED and that made us somewhat unpopular with the rest of the troopees. The CO (68-70) was a Colonel Robert E. Jones. A real stand-up guy, in since WWII, who took the time to offer fatherly advise to a kid who thought he was in over his head. I remember him telling me that they wouldn’t give us anything to do that they didn’t think we could do because failure wasn’t an option. He was a great golfer (rumor was that was why we moved the HQ from NY to Devens -18 holes of rolling hills through the woods). He treated us all right. Think of him still from time to time. Be well! Dave

    Comment by David W. edmonds — October 5, 2010 @ 4:51 pm

  375. I was at “The ‘Bird” from November 1968 to Feb 1969, in 97D Training, before shipping to Germany. Like the Author of this site, it was quite a nice change from Basic at Fort Dix. Too bad they moved the school to Arizona.

    Comment by David Merritt — October 6, 2010 @ 1:00 pm

  376. David(#374),

    What was/is ED and why “somewhat unpopular”?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 6, 2010 @ 2:46 pm

  377. Manny,

    Exempt from Duty. No KP, no Guard Duty (although we did have rotating CQ at the Headquarters building after 6pm and on weekends), Separate Housing (on the Fort), an open Pass that we could use anytime we were not required to be in the HQ building, a lot of time in civilian clothes and fast rank (I went from E-1 to E-5 in thirteen months and six months later went before an E-6 board – Didn’t get it because I was not open to reinlistment). There was resentment from some of the other 12,000 military on the Post. It was also an ASA training center and the “ditties” (code guys so called because you could hear them orally memorizing the morse code) didn’t like the fact that they did not have any of our privileges. But then, we had responsibilities, as part of our job, that they could never imagine (refer back to Garden Plot and think of the assasination of Rev. King, The Democratic and Republican National Conventions, the anti war movement and the civil unrest in the cities). Also,
    daily, one of us had to hand deliver to the Commanding General (two star) an intelligence report that he got the very next day through official channels. He liked that service and treated us right. And, let’s not forget all that running all over the place on currier duty. Very interesting times.

    Be well,

    Dave

    Comment by David W. Edmonds — October 7, 2010 @ 4:50 pm

  378. 1962, my father, retired as a Lt. Col., CIC, there and I, inducted into the Navy as an E1 in 1973 at Holabird. Still remember the Base Nursurey, an o;d Quanset Hut with a stage that may have been hopes for more.

    Comment by James Rinehart — October 11, 2010 @ 9:17 pm

  379. Charlie, thank’s for Buford’s phone#. Ed

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — October 15, 2010 @ 2:57 pm

  380. I finished basic and arrived at Holabird in Feb ’67. I had to wait a few weeks for the 96B class to start, so I was assigned to various work parties. I was lucky to work with an older civilian guy nicknamed Cotton. He was great and didn’t work us too hard. After finishing the 96B course, I thought I would go straight to Vietnam, but instead got orders to HQ I Corps (Gp), G-2
    (Uijongbu, Korea). Finished that tour and went to Bragg, 14th MI Bn. Vietnam finally caught up with me and went to 204th MID, Phu Bai. Too Holabird disappeared. It was a unique post and should have been preserved as a historical site.

    Comment by Richard Wiegand — October 19, 2010 @ 8:09 am

  381. Rich,

    I have often wondered why so many people who were assigned at the 108th HQ stayed there unless they stood up and said “I am over here, come and get me for another part of the world.” Aside from those who were coming after posting to Vietnam, almost no one left to go overseas unless they volunteered. Lots of the folks who commented above had lots of overseas assignments. I wonder if they all voulunteered or if it was just the spin of the wheel? Just curious.

    Dave

    Comment by David W. Edmonds — October 20, 2010 @ 3:18 pm

  382. November 22, 1963, yep that is correct, the date left Ft. Jackson, SC bound for the bird. a small town west georgia boy, who was leaving home for the first time to go into the army. after my basic training i was sent to Fort Holabird, bound for who knows what. I certainly did not. Upon arrival at Ft. Holabird, I was bunked in, and assigned to the headquarters btn for the weekend and until my class was sue to start about 1 December. Of course you all remember that dreadful day. I was assigned to fire and clean the cannon at headquarters building every 4 hours in rememberence and honor of President Kennedy. I was there until May 1964 when i went to the Defense Language School at Monterey Calif. I graduated from the bird with a 97B4 and at the Language School got my l46 and then spent the next 15 months in Korea, followed by a trip to Ayer, Mass at Ft. Devins. that had to be the most informative and exciting 3 years of my life. I remember the Rabbit and Hounds, the wrong way down a one way street, going up the down escellator, and the trip to teh “Block” a country boy from Georgia really got and education. love the trips down Memory Lane, the education from the troop of actors, and the classes from the Judges. everyone should have that opportunity in their lifetime. would not have taken the world for it. j. bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — October 21, 2010 @ 3:05 pm

  383. Arrived at Ft Holabird in July 68..attended the 97B course and then onto Newark NJ with the 108th MI Gp. Loved my time there…when assigned to casual before my class started, ran into to the company clerk who sat next to me in a few classes in high school. So, got the plum assignment of typing a stencil for some manual, a paragraph a day, then free for the day. ETS in Apr 71 and went to work for the G wherein the training I received was put to great use.

    Thanks for the site…brings back wonderful memories except for the aroma from Colgate Creek.

    Comment by Vince — November 10, 2010 @ 6:31 pm

  384. Did this site cease to exist as of 11/10/2010 ?????

    Comment by BOB DAVEY — November 29, 2010 @ 5:42 pm

  385. Bob(#384):

    I hope not!

    Comment by manny — November 30, 2010 @ 3:04 pm

  386. I’m still here Bob;glad to see Manny is too.Ed Hotchkiss.(187),(323),(340)&(342).Class R11,(Feb.67).

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — November 30, 2010 @ 4:01 pm

  387. I still check almost every night.

    Comment by bill — December 1, 2010 @ 12:23 am

  388. I was in church in around the time Senator Kendey was diagnosed with brain cancer. When the prayers after the sermon were done this old guy announced we should remember Senator Kennedy as they both were at Ft. Holarbird in the intel school in 1951. I met him after church and he told me Edward was sent there because of the influence of his father. I was os shocked to even hear someone mention Ft. Holarbird as I had the same experience of finding the place in 1966. I served my entire time at Ft, Holarbird as a draftee.

    Comment by Roger — December 1, 2010 @ 9:37 pm

  389. Roger:

    I wonder what Senator Kennedy did at Holabird?

    Manny

    Comment by manny — December 2, 2010 @ 5:22 pm

  390. I found this story on quite a few sites.

    Kennedy enlisted in the United States Army in June 1951.[9] Following basic training at Fort Dix, he requested assignment to Fort Holabird for Army Intelligence training, but was dropped after a few weeks without explanation.[9] He went to Camp Gordon for training in the Military Police Corps.[9] In June 1952, he was assigned to the honor guard at SHAPE headquarters in Paris.[2][9] His father’s political connections ensured he was not deployed to the ongoing Korean War.[2][10] While stationed in Europe he travelled extensively on weekends and climbed the Matterhorn.[11] He was discharged in March 1953 as a private first class.

    If you Google Kennedy/fort holabird there are a lot of sites.

    Comment by bill — December 3, 2010 @ 1:13 am

  391. Happy holidays to all old Holabird grads. Nearly 40 years after the Bird faded away, it’s great to see so many have positive memories of this special place. We may not have had all the fancy high tech gear back in the Cold War-Korea-Viet Nam era’s, but we were good. Special greetings to all in the 97-96, 9668-9666 MOS groupings. RF

    Comment by RF — December 13, 2010 @ 7:29 am

  392. How I got into Military Intelligence. At the age of 17 and right out of high school I went to join the U.S. Air Force. I wanted to be a air police officer. The Air Force Recruiter had a sign on his door “OUT TO LUNCH”. The Army recruiter was in so I stopped into see him and asked him if I could try to become a helicopter pilot. On the way down to Pittsburgh, Pa. to take some tests there were other guys on the bus talking about Nike Missile sites in the Pittsburgh, Pa. area.
    My next trip back to see the Army recruiter I found out that I missed passing the pilots test by two points. I asked the recruiter about the Nike Missile sites and I had to sign up for four years and I got to pick where my first duty station would be in the Pittsburgh area. I got stationed 15 miles from home.
    After a few months at the missile site I got wind of how they were always on their toes about Military Intelligence testing the security of the base. A recruiter used to come to the base every now and then and I asked him how could I get into military intelligence. I had 11 months in and I had to sign a paper to extend my time back up to 4 years. I made
    spec 4 with about 10 months in and in July of 1968
    I was off to Fort Holabird to become a 97D Military Intelligence Coordinator. I wanted to be a 97B Counterintelligence Agent but I was only 18 and you had to be 21 years old. Another man in may class was
    also a spec 4 but had been to Vietnam and had more time than me was in charge of the class. He took half of the class and I took the other half when we had to march to class. While marching over a bridge
    with the first part of the class the head spec 4 did not call break step march and I did not either and we
    had that bridge rocking up and down. Their was a Marine Lt. hanging onto the railing for dear life.
    Needless to say he called me back and I got my ass chewed and I had to show him how to correctly march over a bridge. Over half of the class got orders for Vietnam and in October of 1968 we got to see each other again at the replacement center at Bien Hoa.
    They sent too many MI coordinators over to Vietnam and we spent a month there unloading baggage from trucks that were bringing in new replacements. When they finally found some slots I volunteered to stay.
    Some guys had to pull straws, short straws lost and they stayed and the others were sent to other countries. I was sent to the 525th MI Group and did 3 months in Nha Trang and 9 months in Pleiku. I extended for 2 months and after that I put in for a 6
    months extension. My Commanding Officer said to me “why don’t you go to school to become a agent”. I told him that I was not old enough. I turned 20 in Vietnam. He said put the paper work in and lets see if we can get your age waived. My extension paper work and the school paper work came back the same time and my CO told me to pick which one I wanted. I took the school and in January of 1970 I was back at
    Fort Holabird to attend the Counter Intelligence Agent course. I was still a Spec 5, I had turned down a promotion to E6 because I did not want to go back to work at battalion HQ in Nha Trang. There were a lot higher ranks in this class than me a Spec 5. Two unusual things happened while attending this class. They used to have a stage with a two way mirror. When you were on stage acting as you were in a real situation trying to get the paid actors to make things go your way a Special Forces person bit the head off a rat. I don’t know where he went after that. The other thing that happened was, there was a Buy U.S. Saving Bonds poster in the stairwell of our barracks with President Johnson on it. Someone wrote
    WHERE IS LEE HARVEY OSWALD AT WHEN WE NEED HIM. They
    really wanted to know who did that. The person turned himself in and he was not longer a classmate.
    When I graduated I was sent to the 902nd MI in Washington D.C.. HQ was actually in Virgina. When I reported there they took one look at me (I looked like
    I was 14 or 15 years old at the time) and they said we
    have an attachment over at the Pentagon. I ended up with the Pentagon Counterintelligence Force. I had to live off base and I made SSG/E6. We wore civilian
    clothes and I held three positions there. ON the day shift I was the third highest ranking person in our
    department. On the second shift I was second in rank and on night shift I was in charge. One evening on the second shift we got a call from the U.S. Special Police that a suspicious package was found in the bus tunnel and they wanted one of our agents there. I sent a agent up and the first thing he did was kick the package. Needless to say the U.S. Special Police called back and we all had a bomb class to go to.
    One of our jobs was to make sure office doors were secured. If they were not we would go in and give the office a security check. We had coasters ( the things you put your drinking glass on) that had printed on them that the Pentagon Counterintelligence Force had been there. One night one of our agents put one underneath the locked door of the BIG TIME
    NEWS people. Needless to say that made Time or Newsweek, I don’t remember which one and it had an article about MI spying on the PRESS. I got out in
    January of 1972. I put 28 years in prison, I work there as a corrections officer and I am going to retire in March of 2011.
    Thomas M. Zangla
    Greensburg, Pa.

    Comment by Thomas M. Zangla — December 15, 2010 @ 9:19 pm

  393. I arrived at Fort Holabird, MD for the 97B training in Sept. 1970, and if I recall that the second to the last class before closing the “bird.” That was one of the most interesting courses that I have ever taken. I will always remember my class mates and some of the faculty. After finishing in Feb. 1970 I was assied to the 111th MI Group at the Charlotte Field Office, Charlotte, NC. After thirteen months of running basic PSI’s and subject interviews, I was assigned to the 502nd MI Group in Seoul, Korea. I have fond memories of the people that I encountered during my 17 1/2 years in the CI field, and unfortunately I do not have their addresses. However, if you think you know me, please drop me an e-mail at “polarisursus@yahoo.com”.

    Thank you.

    Comment by Joe T. — December 22, 2010 @ 12:38 am

  394. Merry Christmas!

    As an old guy with young children (I’m 61 and my kids are 6 and 13-and they have both been good as gold lately because the Man is coming tomorrow night)),I have learned to appreciate Christmas again. It is funny, when I was in service everyone seemed to appreciate the Christmas season. We saw it as a time to put our guards down and just enjoy each other in a more spiritual way. Then, we got PC and the world became generic holiday season. I live in a town that still celebrates Christmas on the town commmon-and invites everyone who want to join in to bring in their own particular sense of Religion. And, no one throws stones at the non-believers; they,re invited too. Something that I have noticed about this web site is that no one seems angry; no one seems dismissive; people seem to be in a philosophical frame of mind. If you are writing about the Bird you’ve been around a while and have had time to digest things. Anyway, so much for the back massage. I just wanted to share my appreciation for the stories and wish all good health in the New Year.

    Thank you all for being here. It is sometimes hard to find someone with a common frame of reference.

    Dave

    Comment by Dave Edmonds — December 23, 2010 @ 6:29 pm

  395. Dave,

    Merry Christmas to you and all.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — December 24, 2010 @ 4:44 pm

  396. Merry Christmas Dave and Manny.

    Ed. Hotchkiss

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — December 24, 2010 @ 11:40 pm

  397. Merry Christmas to all. The “BIRD” still soars!

    Comment by bill — December 25, 2010 @ 12:36 am

  398. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. Dave Edmonds’ post from a couple of days ago is spot on. Nothing negative on this site and that is a welcome change from what you usually run into on the internet.

    Ron Mahinske
    Birmingham, Alabama

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — December 25, 2010 @ 4:01 pm

  399. Reference my last post…..I was at Holabird during the Summer of 1967.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — December 25, 2010 @ 6:51 pm

  400. Merry Christmas and a happy, healthy, prosperous and safe 2011 to all who have left comments here.

    When I first wrote this post almost eight years ago, it was the last of series of posts I had written about basic training. I had no idea that it would attract the attention of so many excellent Fort Holabird alumni.

    I thank each of you for stopping by.

    Jim
    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — December 25, 2010 @ 7:34 pm

  401. Thanks for starting it Jim, it has been fun. Always interesting posts loaded with memories.

    Comment by bill — December 25, 2010 @ 8:56 pm

  402. I arrived at Holabird on Oct 25, 1968 for a 97D20 class. Quite a culture shock from sunny Cali. Harleys was the subshop down the street from the American gas station outside the gate. I worked graveyard there for extra money. Does anyone remember the “Dundalk Dollies” that hung around the 1-2-3 Club. They were a wild bunch for sure. The two acting SGT’s that led the policing along Colgate Creek were Nava and Tinnea. I graduated from USAINTC in Jan 69 and was on a plane for Okinawa on Valentine’s Day 69. A fast and fun 3 yrs for sure.

    Comment by Scott Weldy — December 27, 2010 @ 2:31 am

  403. Hello, I found my way here last year (post 190)and it is amazing how many of our paths crossed and experiences so similar. I left the 115th LA Field Ofc in March 1967 for the 525th MID, Okinawa. Scott Weldy, was LTC John Mock still the CO? He had a DAC buddy who served as assistant, old timer but I cannot remember his name. We had one great time there, Club Cobean at Camp Kue, the airport and water watch for CSG in Naha, Naminouhe, Kadena, the Civilian Clubs, old CIC hands (Akemoto,Choi and others). Lots of stories and great times. Thanks

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 29, 2010 @ 1:18 pm

  404. Got to Fort Holabird on 22 Mar, 1969 and graduated from a 97B40 class on 26 Aug, 1969 at 1330 Hours.
    The Dundalk Dollies were great. Enjoyed their company and a few beers at the good old 1-2-3 club for sure! I remember a place in town called The Latin Casino that wasn’t too shabby either. Spent the next couple of years in a two man resident office in Wausau Wi. To this day, I enjoy many fond memories Of the three years that I spent as a Special Agent with the 113th Military Intelligence Group.

    Comment by Robert B St.Amour — December 30, 2010 @ 1:38 am

  405. Post 403 Richard Duarte, I arrived at the LA FO in Sep 66 and was initially assigned to PSI Team #1. Later, I was on SI Team #5 with CW3 Jenkins as the Team Chief. I recall your name but am having a hard time with the face. What Team were you on? Also, I recall that LTC Sueda was the Region Commander, but the I do not recall the FO commander’s name.

    Comment by Ed Harris — January 3, 2011 @ 8:56 pm

  406. Richard Duarte comment 190: Col Mock was the CO. Cpt Wells, Lt Miklos, Lt Litvan were a few of the officers that I recall. Lonnie Moon was a tall black E-8 and great softball pitcher. We had a great softball team. I spent lots of time in Koza at the Tiger Club, Club Fawn, Goya Steamhouse, non-A sign bars, and the Cobean. Mr. Stone was the ranking civilian in the 526th. It is amazing how people in the MI cross paths a lot. Take care Rich.

    Comment by Scott Weldy — January 4, 2011 @ 1:29 am

  407. I am delighted I stumbled onto this site. After basic training at Ft. Dix, I reported to Ft. Holabird in August 1962. From there, with an MOS 974, I was assigned to the Boston Field Office, Region III, 108th CIC at The Boston Army Base. Region III’s HQ was in that office space as well. The Region CO was Lt. Col Robert H. Wurtz. (His secretary was a woman named Cathy Szachowicz.) His second in command was Maj. Theodore Chlapowski. The CO of the Boston Field Office was Capt. Paul F. Orr. His second in command was a 1st Lt. Robert McGowan. Other commissioned officers I remember were Capt. Robert Downey and a 2nd Lt. Boudreau. Some old timers there were Leo Belanger, John Sluscones, John Neary, Phil O’Connor, Fred Noonan and Stuart Bookman. Younger guys there included Paul Neri, Paul Roy, Don Gill, Doug Wheaton, Al Myers, Jim Fardy, Jim Maglio, Walter Gainey, Jim Southwood, and guys whose last names were Begley and Lyons. Good place to be. Great people to work with.

    From there I was transferred to the 526th INTC Det. in Naha, Okinawa. I was there from January 1964 to May 1965. The CO was a Lt. Col. named Finnegan. Other commissioned officers I remember were Maj. Kurata, Capt. Askins (G4) and Lt. Hollingsworth. The G3 was a CWO4 named Luce. Younger guys there included Paul Raab, Steve Abrams, Ed Hall, Ted Schmidt, Herb Moore, Jack Werner and Walt Breece. This unit was STRAC and nowhere near the fun as the 108th had been.

    Comment by Frank Davis — January 5, 2011 @ 3:06 pm

  408. Ed Harris (405)I am also having a problem with some of the names, I arrived at LAFO in March 1966 and served on several PSI teams, mainly in the Valley, before ending up on SI with CWO3 Suzuki (not sure). I believe that Field Commander was Maj Lusk and he had a hard time with some of the younger agents. Thanks Scott Weldy (406). I remember all of those places very well. I had a great time in Koza, Ted Stone and I became good friends, what a character. Thanks Frank Davis (407), I teamed with Walt Gainey on CE teams with the 526th. Thanks to all.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — January 6, 2011 @ 12:39 pm

  409. Revisitation ( see comment # 120 ) and so happy the site is still alive and well. As I read over the many entries I could only find 2 questions that went un-answered . .# 1 The bar outside the main gate ( to the left ) was Semenkows . . . # 2 The ERF was the Post’s answer to civilian crowd control. The Emergency Reserve Force were the guys in the chromed helmets in those Friday parades and provided the Color Guard.
    (I carried the National colors in it for 3 years ).

    Not much has been said about the 96D courses. I attended 60T6 at a time when the U-2 was being developed and was in the 502nd MI in Yong Dong Po, Korea when it first zoomed down the Chorwon Valley. I was there when the SR-71 blackbird made it’s appearance and got to interpret it’s product as well. I worked with cameras having amazing focal lengths and super optics. I was there for the start of the satellites and remained working with them through the 1980s when it came time to retire. My 29 years of photo ( now imagery ) intelligence allowed me to work with the cream of the crop advancing from E-6 through the Warrant officer grades and on to DAC status when I retired as a GS-14 with 40 years service at the age of 55… None of this would have been possible without the help, guidance and friendship of the myriad professionals I met along the way…I’ll be revisiting and would like to see more input from Imagery Interpreters to add to this treasured site. They did a lot to get us through the Cold War

    Comment by Jim Sprole — January 6, 2011 @ 3:15 pm

  410. Suggestion:

    Spelling out the acronyms would help some us old timers unless these are TS.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — January 6, 2011 @ 3:59 pm

  411. Manny;
    The only acronym I find is DAC . . . Department of the Army Civilian . . . not in use much today as most civilians are DOD (Dept of Defense ) Sorrry about that
    Jim

    Comment by Jim Sprole — January 6, 2011 @ 4:38 pm

  412. I was in a 1968 96D2T class. Loved the Bird and Baltimore. My Godmother was a Roman Catholic Nun at one of the elementary. They took me on a tour of the city including East Baltimore street pointing out which place to avoid as dangerous. I was recycled in basic at Ft. jackson because I flunked my PT test during the Mile run I had a case of bronchitis and my lungs cleared themselves over my CO’s boots. Missed my class by 3 days and had to wait for the next one. Casual Co. was great I started in the motor pool and did some dispatching then began driving between the Pentagon and and the Bird.
    Had a photometrics instructer who claimed the solution to the Nam Problem was to put all the leaders who were faithful to us on boats about 3 miles out then give Laos and Cambodia sea coast without changing land mass, then sink the boats. Some real strange folks there. Went to Fr. Meyers for some testing.
    From there went to 1st MIBARS Saigon. As we were signing in Maj. Korf came down and asked each of the 6 of us if we really wanted to work with photography. I asked what the alternative was and became an ARLO assistant. The guy who took my was medivaced out several months later. Maj Korf arranged a couple of “non funded” TDY,s in Bangkok. When I returned state side went to Bragg then to Hood to an equipment testing unit. My TS debreif from Bragg was missing so I spent 4 of my 6 months there just checking in in the morning then making myself scarce. Then took an early out to go back to school.
    I was one of those who enlisted to avoid the draft which was inevitable after loosing my college differment. Wanted to get into photography which was closed at the time but was talked into 96D II as an alternative that I could transfere out of after returning from VN. Little did I know it was a critical MOS and NO ONE got out once in.
    Still some of the Best times of my life. Met one of my best friends Norm Peterson from Denver CO. there. Haven’t seen him since he went to his detachment in Nam and later shipped home on a medical. Would love to get in touch with him.

    Comment by Bill Donovan — January 7, 2011 @ 12:23 am

  413. Just remembered: My brother was career army about 10 years when I enlisted. In BASIC when I found out I was going to Holabird I called him and asked him what he knew about it. He looked it up in an “officall” guide to the Army Posts, it Read: “Mysteriously placed in the lower industrial disrict of Baltimore, Fort H. is the U.S. Army Intelligence School.” It had one the shortest if not the shortest discription of all the posts.

    Comment by Bill Donovan — January 7, 2011 @ 12:47 am

  414. Richard Duarte(408): You were on Team 5(SI) when I arrived at the LAFO in Sep 66 and I believe you had already PCS’d before I was assigned to the SI Team. CWO Suzuki was the team chief, later replaced by CWO Jenkins. I recall Howard Pederson was on the SI Team and I still have contact with Jeff Hart who was on the LAC Team. CWO Ceceil Cheek was Chief of PSI Team 1 and a civilian named Hartman was also a PSI Team Chief. That’s about as much as I recall. I had many CI assignments throughout my 25 year Army career, but none more interesting than LAFO.

    Comment by Ed Harris — January 7, 2011 @ 11:57 pm

  415. Re comment 412, 413 . . . Each class started with a bit of humor . . . some of it worked . . . remember instead ( please ) how comfortable you got , there for a while with the principles of Algebra, Geometry,Trigonometry and Oblique Geometrics . . . Your Photo Math Instructor

    Comment by Jim Sprole — January 8, 2011 @ 11:54 am

  416. My Father passed away in July 2009 & while growing up , I never knew exactly what it was my Father did.

    I have just received a few ( very few) of my father’s Military records 7 they mention he was and Interpreter & Translator but also an Interrrogator. I have also noted” PMOS EVAL SCORE AND DATE 96 ( FEB 71) on one of the documents & on others the letters: CONARC, CoB USAINTS Ft. Holabird, UUSAG WSMR N MEX, USAIDSCOM washington DC, HHD USARV APO 96307, Co A DLOWC Pres/Mtry Calif…..There are more but If anyne can explain to me what these mean, hat would be wonderful. My Fathers name was James Martin. He was a very, very light skinned black man. He was at USAINTC Ft. Holabird June 14, 1965 as a student & USAIDSCOME Washington DC Oct. 12, 1966, WSMR N MEX june 1, 1963 -1 June 1964. If anyone recognizes this info. or remembers my Dad, please contact me. TY so much!

    Comment by mauricette Caruana — January 11, 2011 @ 4:23 pm

  417. Mauricette Caruana,
    I know a few:
    PMOS – Primary Military Occupation Specialty
    CONARC – Continental Army Command
    USAINTS – United States Army Intelligence School
    USAINTC – United States Army Intelligence Command(or Corps, depending on what year).

    Comment by bill — January 14, 2011 @ 12:46 am

  418. I was one of the 1st WAC members allowed to train as a CI Agent. I arrived at “The Bird” around November 1964. I had to wait for my class [65B-8] to start. My class consisted of me and 49 guys from all over. While my friends had to march to class — I either walked or managed to get rides from other friends who were permanent party. After graduation they must have refused my continual requests for duty in ‘Nam. I wanted to go — really! I was already from the east coast — like Philadelphia. I wanted to see MORE of the world, okay? My world after school consisted of assignment to the Records Facility. I worked out of the office that had a direct line to the Pentagon. We processed records for them. I had this little stamp wherein I revoked security clearances based on info submitted by company commanders. Totally — a hoot! Because if the dirt submitted didn’t match the proper criteria — then I’d write back and tell whoever that they couldn’t revoke whats-his-name’s security clearance. Loved it!

    Comment by Juana Foy — January 16, 2011 @ 8:31 pm

  419. Juana Foy, have you checked out the Facebook page, Fort Holabird Alumni? There is a fomer WAC from class 65B-8. You might know her.

    Comment by bill — January 17, 2011 @ 11:34 pm

  420. RE: Post # 416 by Maurictee Caruana
    USARV is United States Army Reublic of Vietnam
    APO is Army Post Office and the 96307 gets the mail to his unit in Vietnam without telling the outside world what unit he was in.
    Co A DLOWC Pres/Mtry Calif was Company A of possibly some Weapons Command at the Presidio, Monterey, California
    WSMR N MEX probably refers to the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico where Atomic Bomb Testing had been conducted prior to the dates your dad was there.
    Hope this is helpful. Looks like your dad was into some pretty interesting and probably highly classified stuff. Good Luck

    Comment by Steve Schein — January 18, 2011 @ 8:00 pm

  421. RE Post # 416
    USAIDSCOME, Wash DC go to this link:
    http://www.armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/go6516.pdf

    And read Roman Numeral # II

    Comment by Steve Schein — January 18, 2011 @ 8:09 pm

  422. RE # 416
    USAIDSCOME, Wash DC go to this link:
    http://www.armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/go6516.pdf

    And read Roman Numeral # II

    Comment by Steve Schein — January 18, 2011 @ 8:10 pm

  423. I thought we had a good time in 1956. Sounds like it got a lot better.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — January 20, 2011 @ 3:20 pm

  424. testing

    Comment by ralph askin — January 27, 2011 @ 8:34 pm

  425. As draftee, Fort Holabird Sept 54 – Feb 55.
    Investigations and German language.
    66th Munich to May 56.
    Lived economy with wife and newborn son.
    Enjoyed all except the money.
    Could probably come wup with some names should there be interest.

    Comment by ralph askin — January 27, 2011 @ 8:44 pm

  426. Ralph, I guess I was following you around. I arrived at the ‘bird in April of 1956. went through the school and ended up in Munich. The 66th, Reg IV was then at 35 Schweriter Strasse. I think they moved there not long before we arrived. Were you there or out at McGraw? Had greatest time of my life in Munich, with a lot of time spent at the Seigersgarten in Schwabbing. Lt Col Himmelright was CO. Guys who were there for a while spoke fondly of a Lt Col Lorenz, a past CO. A very fine lady named Sallie Brittle was the CO’s Sect.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — January 31, 2011 @ 12:35 pm

  427. The arrival experience at the “Bird” could have been written by myself, especially the encounter with the MP. I was in class 58-B-2, graduated in November, 1957 and went to Korea. Was assigned to 191st CIC Det, 1st Cav. Came back to the “Land of the Big PX” in January, 1959 and after a short stay at Ft Meade, extended for nine months to get a FO assignement. Went to Philly Field and served under SAC Tom Weinstein; a first lieutenant at the time, who went on to wear three stars at ACSI for Intelligence and became a member of the Intelligence Hall of Fame. Served with a lot of great guys, had some wonderful experiences and would’nt trade my CIC service for the world.

    Comment by Bill Carroll — February 2, 2011 @ 12:56 pm

  428. To Ed Delehanty: Yes, the 66th Munich was at a little post Lowengrin Kaserne on Lowengrin Strasse south of the river when I arrived. Since we had a ton of classified stuff Col.Lorenz decided that we should move ourselves – tough job. My direct supervisor was Sgt. Case, a prince of a guy, and Lt. Foreman our office chief. Forman and I went through investigations school together as enlisted men, but he went to OCS and ended up in Munich sometime later, I’m sure he was there at the same time as you. I really enjoyed the Ivy league guys, very different from those of us from California.

    Comment by ralph askin — February 4, 2011 @ 3:07 pm

  429. Ralph, Denny Forman was there when I got there. He was a great guy (still is I hope.) I think I remembrt Dgt Case. All of those secret documents you moved got burned about two months after I got there. Someone decided that they should be destroyed and in the usual army procedure we started a large bonfire in the back yard. Some of the boys threw them out the second floor window and some gathered them up an put them in the fire. A wind came up with predictable results. Col Lorenz was gone when I got there, replaced by Lt. Col Himmelwright. Some say Lorenz left as a result of an IG inspection. I guess he was the nervous type as they nicknamed him Shaky. Col. Himmelwright is a story in itself which I may relate at a later date. Do you remember Sgt. Case’s first name? I am in e-mail contact with two or three guys who were there at the same time. I didn’t know Denny was OCS, I thought he was ROTC.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 4, 2011 @ 4:00 pm

  430. To Ralph. Was Sgt Case’s first name Roland? Some days my memory is better than others.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 7, 2011 @ 12:32 pm

  431. Great to find this site. I was at the Bird from Sept 63 to Jan 64. in IRO Class 64-H-3 with 47 others whose names I have in a graduation program I just found in my files.

    Comment by Bill Keck — February 8, 2011 @ 1:08 pm

  432. Wonderful site. I was at the Bird in the summer of 1968 attending a 97B40 class. I believe the class number was 68B20. I went from there to the 109th MI Group, with duty in Phoenixville,Pa and then Pittsburgh. From Pittsburgh, I went to MACV and the Phoenix Program. I was with MACV Team 49. It is hard to tell any one who was in the regular army about Ft. Holabird. They just don’t believe you.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — February 9, 2011 @ 3:14 pm

  433. Someone asked for mentions of casual duty assignments we received. I arrived a few weeks early in Aug 63 and did the usual filing stuff until a retiring colonel found out I was an advertising copywriter and assigned me to composing a “position wanted” ad for the Wall Street Journal. Then who remembers the bowling alley and a frosty NattyBo?

    Comment by Bill Keck — February 11, 2011 @ 12:59 am

  434. re 430 No idea what Sgt Case’s first name was.

    re 115 There were two enlisted marines attending investigations school in 1954, but not in my class. They lined up separately for rollcall and to march to class.

    re ? One of our platoon was a chrome helmet band member for the weekly parades. Don’t know how they picked him out. Once in Germany, never marched again.

    Comment by ralph askin — February 11, 2011 @ 7:12 pm

  435. Hello All. I am searching for information about the late Lt. Col. Isadore Max Belba. He served in the CIC from 1946 until 1968, or so. He spent some time stationed at Ft. Holabird in Maryland. I am working on a biographical study of Lt. Col. Belba.

    Comment by Mark — February 12, 2011 @ 6:13 pm

  436. I was in Peterson Kaserne from Jan 55 to when they moved to Schwerereiterstr. in town. Clerk-typist, I was nco in charge of intelligence contingency funds under Lt O’Brien, then Lt Sawyer. We had to compose the monthly report on what 66th CIC was doing in Munich. I also had a little sideline singing in several military contests and had a ball in Munich until I left Apr 57. I met many great guys there. For example, who remembers Howard Haas who always sang “Oh my name is Morgan, but but it ain’t J. P.”? Haas, by the way, died in Nashville, TN a couple of years ago.

    Comment by Roger Martin — February 13, 2011 @ 4:31 pm

  437. Roger, I will always remember you singing “Lowland Victory” in the Seigsersgarten. I have heard it on the radio a few times since and always think of you. Sorry to hear that Howard Haas died. I wonder where Erica and Strupka are now.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 13, 2011 @ 10:39 pm

  438. Ed Delehanty– who were Erica and Strupka? Did you also frequent Badevanne and Studio 15?

    Comment by Roger Martin — February 14, 2011 @ 1:12 am

  439. Yes I was a frequent visitor at the Badevanne and Studio 15. As I recall the Badevanne was off limits but I don’t remember why. Perhaps because it didn’t get going until after 2400. Erica and Strupka were two young Germand girls, sisters, who hung out with us in the Seigersgarten.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 14, 2011 @ 12:42 pm

  440. You know Ed I’ve been back to look for the Siegesgarten and I couldn’t find it. I think they tore it down.

    Comment by Roger Martin — February 14, 2011 @ 8:53 pm

  441. The Seigesgarten was torn down back in the 60’s. The first time I went back about 1962 it was gone but the Nachtoiler was still there and hadn’t changed very much.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 15, 2011 @ 1:48 pm

  442. Bill keck, RE: post #433, this is the 3rd time I tried to post this. I don’t think they want “links” but there is an interesting article on the Weekly Dundalk Eagle that will interest you.

    Comment by bill — February 15, 2011 @ 11:32 pm

  443. Bill Keck, the Eagle has taken down the story I was talking about. If you send me your e-mail address, I will send you a copy. It is about the return of Natty Boh to Baltimore. The article just happened to come out right after you asked about it. I remember the bowling alley, being from Boston, I was expecting “Candle Pins”.

    Comment by bill — February 17, 2011 @ 12:44 am

  444. Passed thru the Bird three times. Order of Battle-1958
    Intel Analyst 1963-Installation Security 1964. Shame noone mentioned the absense of Blacks in Intel. I was the only one in the 182d MI at Fort Bragg the only one in most fo the J2, G2 and S2 assignments including SF.
    Waited 5 years to get served at the Holabird Inn hung out around the corner at the Holibird Cafe or the bar on the other side of the tracks in Dundalk. Only one in Area Studies Bad Tolz. Our Intel Analyst was the one in attendance when Kennedy Got shot. My colleagues refused to drink at the Holabird Inn without me so I took them to the Black bar in Dundalk-no problem we had a ball until the news came on saying JFK had been shot. We all put down our drinks and went back to post.
    We had a ball at the Bird the young agents-to-be watched us and we watched them. Some of us had been in the Vietnam since 1957. The Harbor VC village was a joke. One of our guys for realism, tried to do one of the Viet Cong WAC cadre. We did leave our mark and some great stories.
    Great site, brought back some good memories but some sad stinking thinking for me. Not being able to get a drink in a flop joint across the street from a US Army post got me thinking about To Die For…..It was always hard for me being a Smoked Yankee from RI and Maine.
    Retired and ended up as an Education Center Director in Germany.

    Comment by wild bill ramsdell — February 25, 2011 @ 2:39 am

  445. Fort Holabird Photos:

    If you’re interested in photos of the Bird there are
    three very good books with pictures of Holabird, 1950s, 60s, early 70s. The books are part of the Army Lineage Series, written by John Patrick Finnegan. They can be purchased on the inter net and can be found at some libraries. The first book is “Military Intelligence” 437 pages. There’s also “Military Intelligence A Picture History”,195 pages and “The Military Intelligence Story, A Photographic History”, 153 pages. There are Fort Holabird photos in all three books and authorized CIC-MI history. Face Book also has a page for posting Bird photos under Fort Holabird Alumni. Great books and pics for old Holabird grads.
    RF

    Comment by RF — February 27, 2011 @ 5:55 am

  446. Does anyone remember taking survailance training and going up to White Plains NY to practice? My mom was the gal who stood on the corner with the newspaper under her arm waiting for someone to give her the correct password. My brother Steve ran the problem. Mom got a certificate making her an honorary member of the Ft Holibird faculty.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 27, 2011 @ 7:13 pm

  447. “Great Site” Brings back alot of great memories. I was at the Bird attending the 97B40 class from August 67 to december 67. Then went to the DLIS for 47 weeks of Vietnamese at Biggs Fl, El Paso,TX. Hated that place after being at the Bird.The only good thing about it was that I got to play ball on the baseball team and the soccer team. Went to Nam next with teh 541st MID assigned to the 11thACR (Blackhorse. Great Unit. Got pulled to work TDY as civilian status with the Office of Special Assistant to the Ambassador(OSA) on the Phoenix Program. The Bird had the best training of any school I have attended before or since. Instructors were all top of the line.

    Comment by Nick Bruich — March 1, 2011 @ 5:06 pm

  448. Re:#443. Actually, Bill, I did find the article about the return of Mr. Boh (in keg and draft) in “The Dundalk Eagle.” Thanks for the tip and the offer. My assignment after leaving The Bird was…interesting, but it was state-side and so-o “civilian.” Every one of you has stories more exciting than any of mine—except, maybe, the one about a forced landing in a chopper while conducting security checks among the Nike-Hercules installations in our area.

    Comment by Bill Keck — March 1, 2011 @ 10:55 pm

  449. Nick Bruich, did you read #273? Do you know Harlan Lunsford? He was with the Phoenix Program.

    Comment by bill — March 2, 2011 @ 1:02 am

  450. Most of you remember Fort Howard as a training area for counterinsurgency operations et al. What I remember, from the Winter of 1963, was a bivouac one drizzly, freezing cold weekend. I still maintain that the freighters out on the bay were at higher elevation than the floor of our tent.

    Comment by Bill Keck — March 5, 2011 @ 11:23 pm

  451. Imagery Interpreters, 96D, (aka Squints) who ended up serving with 1st MIBARS at Bragg or across the Nam, there is an active reunion effort and website to find your buddies. Go to: http://military-intelligence.wikispaces.com/1st+MIBARS
    And yes, Holabird was an “out-of-Army” experience. I was in Class 67-CB-05; and I’m sure told like the previous class we wouldn’t we heading off to Nam. Well it turned out untrue. Here’s to Holabird Inn, Harley’s and the Dundalk dollies at the Rec Center dances.

    Comment by Dave Iverson — March 6, 2011 @ 8:52 am

  452. Great Site!! Found it while wondering about taking some old “Bird” Orders to Fort Huachuca for their Museum. My brother Ed (Edward Evans) and I were Second Lieutenants in Class B-270 with Lt. Barry Bonoff (See Comment #154) from 5 Jul 54 through mid-November 54. (General Campbell called us “The Golden Horde,” as we were the first all-Officer Class to go through Holabird.) There were 39 of us, as I recall, and 38 graduated. (We had all been together the summer of 1953 at Fort Riley, KS for ROTC Summer Camp along with a much larger group of ROTC/MI folks from all over the USA.) Brother Ed, who now lives in New Hampshire, has given me a copy of every Order he ever had, so we have some history available, particularly for Region XII, 66th CIC Group, where Ed and I both served with Myron Johnston (See Entry #206.) Later today, I will be in touch with “Pete” Long, who was our Region XII Photo Tech in 1955-56. Pete is USAF Retired now, and lives in Chandler, AZ. I hope to see him for lunch in the next few days. There is also an effort underway to get former members of Class B-270 back in touch. We had a 45th Reunion (as I recall) in Maryland some years back. Dick Murhphy is working on the details. I’ll check with him and see what he might like to share.

    Comment by Frederick N. Evans — March 6, 2011 @ 6:51 pm

  453. I was stationed at the Bird (USAINTS) from 1960 to 1962.
    I would often walk around wearing a Russian Uniform.

    Remember that skinny Gen Prather who during Sat. Morning parades rode a jeep with chrome all over it ?

    We would go to town and get plastered (Howard St) It’s a wonder that I made it to 73. God; that was so many years ago.

    willston@embarqmail.com

    Comment by Walter R. Illston — March 7, 2011 @ 5:37 pm

  454. Walter(#453),

    Must have changed days for the General Campbell and Prather’s parades. Back in our day it was always late Friday. God how we permanent party complained. Anything remotely military sent the “bitch” quota through the roof.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — March 8, 2011 @ 4:32 pm

  455. I stand corrected; the parades were Fri. afternoon.

    I noticed Ft Howard was mentioned. We would drive out there about once each month. In the summer, we would take our lunch, and then swim in the Chesapeake Bay ( We called it “The Baltimore Sewer” ). In the afternoon, the class would arrive, and it was time for us to do our thing. We would get captured and be interrogated by the students. If the class was made up of officers; we loved to play harmless tricks. Putting a black snake in a sack, or M-80s in the concrete bunkers with a trip cord, etc. It was all part of the training.

    Comment by Walter R. Illston — March 9, 2011 @ 5:06 pm

  456. Holabird Trivia. Ever wonder where they got the name Holabird? I am reading a book about General Walter Bedell Smith and came across the fact that one of his first assignments after WW1 was Ft Sheridan, Illinois.
    It states that the Fort was designed by a “soon-to-be renowed firm of HOLABIRD AND ROCHE which received its first major commision to design the fort. This was back in the late 1880s. I’m guessing that this is where the name came from. I’m sure that this information will enable you all to sleep better.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — March 18, 2011 @ 4:45 pm

  457. Ed(#456),

    Named after a General Holabird, I believe something to do with the Transportation Corp. This may or may not help us sleep better depending on our obsessive natures.
    Manny

    Comment by manny — March 18, 2011 @ 6:22 pm

  458. OK Manny, sounds logical. Maybe they were cousins.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — March 21, 2011 @ 9:28 am

  459. Manny, you are absolutely right. I Googled General Holabird and found he led an illustrious career before, through and after the Civil War. He made many great improvements to the Quatermaster Corp.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — March 21, 2011 @ 1:21 pm

  460. I trained at Holabird from Oct 63-Jan 64. Then stationed at New York FO off East 16th Street and Union Square in NYC from Feb 64-July 66. I conducted PSIs all over Manhattan, finally specializing in midtown. Also did inspections, interrogations at Governor’s Island. Other FOs in Region 1 at the time were Brooklyn, Garden City, Westchester. The building on East 16th is now occupied by NYC welfare and social service agencies, I think. Great website here. Brought back lots of memories of NYC as well as Fort Holabird.

    Comment by Tom Gentle — March 22, 2011 @ 11:15 pm

  461. I CAME TO THE BIRD IN 68. I was never good with names (info a strong point) so i cant remeber the names of the people i was with. i graduated in oct 68 went ther in aug 68. i kept the list of the grads and orders where they were deployed from our class for many years – gone now. i was givin sp4 (96b20) out of the bird and went to korea, partly because the pueblo release.
    i remeber the jerk off marines that were in our class – they thought marching was a condition of intelligance.
    i had a personel confrontation with one. a future green baret canadet backed my play and after 4 or 5 months in the army i had an interview with the base commondant. we sort of won. the lance corpral become the class leader the gunny become nothing. the confrontation was about classes on saturday and marching to class. my contention was let them fail if the test scores were bad – better to reject them now then kill us later. we still had to keep together but it was no longer camp lajune – ha.

    Comment by joseph e milutis — March 29, 2011 @ 11:53 pm

  462. Tom #460
    Spent a happy year+ at the New York FO in 1965.

    Do you have any memory of me or my buddy ‘Ed Smilowitz’? We were both from Staten Island and used to commute every day to 16th street.

    I didn’t realize it at the time but that FO had a very ‘unique’ cast of characters.

    Comment by John Major — March 31, 2011 @ 4:07 pm

  463. Post #462: John Major were you ever assigned to the 115th in Denver?

    Comment by Ed Harris — April 2, 2011 @ 7:22 pm

  464. John Major, did you know Capt Rintz or Fred Norton at the NYFO?

    Comment by bill — April 5, 2011 @ 11:12 pm

  465. Post 463, Ed Harris. I am John Major who was in Denver as the Operations Officer, Region V, 115th MI Group. John Chipman was the CO of Region, later killed in automobile accident. I also was the FO Commander of the DFO. I am not the John Major in post 462 in the NYFO. Ed were you at Group HQs?

    Comment by John Major — April 16, 2011 @ 8:19 pm

  466. I left a post last night…do not see? Should I repost?

    Comment by Richmond Castano — April 18, 2011 @ 2:15 am

  467. See Greg’s post #163 above as I served with all these guys as a 96B in Phouc Vinh with the (1st) Air Cav. I just don’t remember them at Holabird? I do have fond memories of the Bird but they are very very patchy. Coming out of basic training from Ft. Jackson where three trainees died from heat exhaustion the Bird was paradise! I did mature fast as an 18 year old experiencing the the bar across the street, the “block”, being ripped off by gypsies, and the crab beer halls on the waterfront.
    All with “Hey Jude” as background music. For me, the AIT advanced Individual training for becoming an Analyst was as rewarding as it was difficult. I did learn an important lesson in the shallowness of human nature nature. As I was developing a friendship with a classmate when he found out it took me three attempts to pass the map exam he simply stopped associating with me.

    Comment by Richmond Castano — April 18, 2011 @ 2:58 am

  468. Odd how you make such tight bonds with your Army buddies but like Greg mentions we just loose contact … So if any of you guys especially Ron Conte finds this post send me holler ! richmond@twinleather.com ~ and Greg what IS the rest of the STORY ?

    Comment by Richmond Castano — April 18, 2011 @ 3:15 am

  469. Richmond (#467),

    Good news. You passed this one first try. We made those map overlays at “training aides” back in the fifties. Now I least I know what they were used for, torture devices for trainees.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — April 18, 2011 @ 3:14 pm

  470. To Wes Lorenz: I see from your comments that we attended 97B training at Ft Holabird at the same time (November 1968 to March 1969). However, we must have been in different classes because most of my class went to Vietnam or Vietnamese language school followed by Vietnam. Myself and the student who sat next to me were the only ones assigned to Korean language school at Monterey followed by a tour in Korea.

    Comment by John Lawler — April 18, 2011 @ 3:32 pm

  471. I did basic at Fort Jackson in 1968 and then assigned to Fort Holabird in November 1968 for 97B counterintelligence agent training. Our initial barracks were the old wooden WWII barracks that had character. Then we were assigned to the red brick muti-story barracks. Our class leader, just back from Vietnam, was a Marine sergeant who was a wonderful leader and a gentleman treating us all with respect. I also recall going for pitchers of beer and playing darts at a pub directly across the street from the post’s main gate. I remember it being called the “Blue Bird Inn.” I returned to Ft Holabird in 1993 to revisit the fort and found it had been converted into an industrial park. The only landmark I could find still standing was the Blue Bird Inn. The school was great. I recall the lock picking classes, the typing classes, the Soviet system classes and the interviews of the actors. Moscow where? Oh, Moscow, Idaho. Always had to remember to ask specific questions. And then there was the Vietnamese village we had to infiltrate and interrogate the villagers. Lots of booby-traps set up to catch us. I also remember standing formation in the mornings to the smells of Colgate Creek and then marching to class in formation carrying those black “Airway” government-issued brief cases instead of a rifle. Left Holabird in March 1968 for DLI Monterey for a year of Korean language training followed by a tour with the 502nd MI Bn in Korea.

    Comment by John Lawler — April 18, 2011 @ 4:38 pm

  472. Post 465: John Major, I was the SAIC of the Casper,WY,RO, in 1972, and I remember meeting you in Denver sometime during that year. I believe you were a captain at the time. I also remember John Chipman. He visited me in Casper on one occasion during the year I was there. Those were the good old days.

    Comment by Ed Harris — April 18, 2011 @ 9:29 pm

  473. I don’t check in at this site as often as I should. I noticed that a guy who worked for me in Chicago’s FAFO sent a “reach out” note last Summer. Bob Davy if you see this let me know. I’d like to catch-up. This site is really great. One of the very few ways that INTC people can stay in touch.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — April 22, 2011 @ 1:22 pm

  474. Post 472: John Major, I was going through some my old military records and found my first OER as a WO1. You were my rater and John Chipman was the reviewing officer. Yes it was a max OER!

    Comment by Ed Harris — April 23, 2011 @ 5:14 pm

  475. I just discovered this fascinating website. Barry Bonoff (see Post#154) and I were in Training Group B-270, which General Campbell dubbed the “Golden Horde” because we were a unique group. All of us had just graduated from college and received our commissions through the ROTC. We received orders to report directly to the Bird, which we did on 7 July 1954. We received training as Counter Intelligence Corps officers. Everybody stationed at the Bird had to march in the Friday afternoon parade which General Campbell reviews. That meant that each company was swollen with officers beyond its normal strength (I recall as many as four, perhaps five, ranks of officers in a company. After completing our counterintelligence training, at least half of our group, including me, remained at the Bird for German and Japanese language training before shipping overseas. I served in the 441st CIC Detachment in Tokyo, Japan for 5 1/2 months and the 308th CIC Detachment in Seoul, Korea for about 11 months. I was separated from the Army in July 1956 at the Oakland Army Terminal in California. In October 1999, 23 out of the 31 surviving members of the Golden Horde had a three-day reunion in Washington, DC, which I, with the help of Dan Goggin, organized. It was a memorable occasion during which we swapped stories about our time at the Bird as well as about of our various assignments after leaving the Bird. I hope that Barry Bonoff will see my post because I have been trying to reach him to no avail.

    Comment by Dick Murphy — April 26, 2011 @ 9:51 pm

  476. The rate at which this site is growing is impressive. I was at Holabird from Feb. ’65 to June ’65 taking the basic course and then the CI “9666” Course. There is a lot to recall but my most vivid recollection is getting three other large guys into my VW Bug and driving in a car pool to the post. How did we ever do that? Four of us all came up from Ft. Benning where we had completed the Infantry Officers Basic Course. We all went to the basic intelligence course. Two of us, George Gore and Nick Hanson, went to the II course. I went to the 9666 course along with the final car pool mate whose name was Dick Marler. Gore and Hanson went to DC to do II as the VN build-up started. I went to the 113th Region 1 Chicago and I can’t recall where Marler went. Gore was a lawyer from Cleveland so I suspect that’s there he went when he got out. I’ve completely lost track of these guys and that’s too bad because they were terrific people. When the lunch break occurred we all beat a rapid pace to the little Officer’s Day Room which stood all by itself in a corner of the post. The attraction there was a pool table where we played 8 Ball every day from Feb. to June. Good times, good place, good men and many thanks to the fellow who built this wonderful site.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — May 1, 2011 @ 5:44 pm

  477. I was stationed at Ft. Holabird,WAC 69-72. Went through the 96B20 course and then was assaigned to Intell Command. Met my Husband Bob Moubray there! He was an MP. Great Memories! This site is absolutely wonderful. I have so many stories, makes my heart full of joy to read the posts. Thanks

    Comment by Rebecca (Bennett) Moubray — May 1, 2011 @ 7:41 pm

  478. Thank you so much for this site, which I only just stumbled across! My Dad was the Commandant (I believe) of the CIC School from July 1955 to April 1958. Col. Thomas Larner. I was aged 13 to 16 and had a ball on the post – drove a car for the first time on the post (underage, no licence). I have just made contact with a friend from those days, which is what inspired me to look further afield. Our Boy Scout Leader was named Kennedy and also ran the post’s greenhouse – great guy.

    Would love to hear from anybody with memories of that time.

    Comment by Bill Larner — May 1, 2011 @ 8:52 pm

  479. Bill(#478),

    We overlapped. See my posts and you get the Holabird from the “peon’s” view. You may have been the kid who almost hit us with dad’s car (of course we were slightly older kids).

    We need a roll-call of all past posters to see who is still out there in cyber-space. By the way, intell really shone Sunday as did the Seals. Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 2, 2011 @ 4:04 pm

  480. I am looking for an annual for the 4th student battalion Airborne Fort Benning Ga from 9-8-1972. This is for a client that is having a tough time right now. I know this will help his spirits. Any ideas where I might find a copy?

    Thanks in advance,
    Cheryl

    Comment by Cheryl Gentry — May 2, 2011 @ 9:39 pm

  481. Hi Manny,

    I have read quite a few of the posts on here. Interesting to get the different perspectives on life at Holabird. I thoroughly enjoyed it as a teenager. There was Scouts, with access to all sorts of Army equipment, eg. jeeps, for the driving of. Teen Club on Friday nights. Rifle Club on Saturday mornings. I spent a lot of time at the O Club pool in summer – got the nickname “Froggie” for my troubles. A US Army bus picked us up and took us into Baltimore to school every day – complete with an Army minder on board to make sure we didn’t play up too much.

    It wasn’t me! I never came close to hitting anyone with the car. But glad for your sake that it was an “almost” kind of thing.

    Yep, good work on Sunday. Overtones of Operation Eagle Claw in 1980 during the Iran Hostage Crisis when there were multiple helicopter failures. Hope more details of Sunday’s event are made public.

    Bill
    P.S. To whoever runs the website, thanks, and keep up the good work!
    P.P.S. Also many thanks to the other Bill for posting the video of Holabird on YouTube. Wonderful memories.

    Comment by Bill Larner — May 2, 2011 @ 9:48 pm

  482. Manny(#479),

    Still here,I check this site several times a week; it’s genuine and feels like home.We have special people here.My past posts are(#187,323,340,342&396)My best to all of you! Ed.

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — May 2, 2011 @ 10:11 pm

  483. Bill/Manny (#94)

    The pool was definitely there 1955-58. Right next to the O Club. If you do a Google Earth of the Holabird area, you can see the outline of where the pool was, just on the eastern boundary of the building that is now the VVA Chapter 451. (Longitude 39° 16’01.84″N, Latitude 76° 32’04.77W)

    I was part of the “teen laughter” Manny mentions. Small world!

    Comment by Bill Larner — May 3, 2011 @ 4:30 am

  484. RE#94, There was an enlisted mans pool at the far end of the post, next to the bowling alleys. This was in 1965-1968. The officers had their own.
    There is a picture of 3 WAC’s on FaceBook standing at the pool. At Fort Holabird Alumni, click on PHOTOS and check it out.

    Comment by bill — May 3, 2011 @ 11:23 pm

  485. I graduated from “The Bird” in 67 and was assigned to the 116th MI Gp, Wash, D.C. Volunteered for NAM and was assigned to 5th Bn, 525 MI GP (McCarrick Compound) from 68 to 69 then was assigned as NCOIC MI Assignment Branch (97B) at the Pentagon. Made WO (in Oct 69) and assignerd to 525th, Ft. Sam Houston, w/duty sta Corpus Christi, Tx. Reverted to E7 jn 1972 and reassigned to 701st MI Det, Ft. Bragg (worst unit I ever served in) and retired Nov 74. would like to here from anyone who was in the above named units.

    Comment by George Krisko — May 13, 2011 @ 7:25 pm

  486. I found this site while looking through my father’s bio. He attended the CIC class at Holabird in 1947 and was subsequently stationed at Camp Truscutt in Salzburg Austria, which is where I was born in 1948, and then on to Wiesbaden Germany. He doesn’t recall much of those days… getting a little senile… but it is ironic that I ended up working for USAFSS in Viet Nam many years later. Anybody remember Linton J. Bassett?

    Comment by Greyson Bassett — May 14, 2011 @ 11:23 am

  487. Arrived Holabird Sept 69 and was sent down to E CO (casual) until agent class started. I had worked for an asphalt company in the summers while in college. Colonel Leslie LaFon saw this on my personnel card and wanted to know if I could asphalt the walkways in E CO. He let me pick 5 guys and we spent about four weeks turning dirt paths into asphalt sidewalks. Kept us off any other duties until we were finished. Left the BIRD in May 70 and spent a year at DLI in Monterey studying Vietnamese. Then 10 months in DaNang
    Bob Rosenblatt

    Comment by Bob Rosenblatt — May 17, 2011 @ 11:13 pm

  488. Linton (#486),

    Aren’t we all,i.e., getting a little senile that is.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 18, 2011 @ 2:53 pm

  489. Here’s a web link if you’re interested in MI-CIC, Holabird trivia, memorabilia. It’s a list
    of items located at the intel museum in Sierra Vista, AZ…http://huachuca-www.army.mil/sites/History/PDFS/catalogmi.pdf

    Comment by RF — May 19, 2011 @ 8:52 am

  490. Post 477, Rebecca (Bennett) Moubray, My name is Bill Morrissey, I am trying to locate a WAC that was stationed at Ft. Holabird in 1968. Her name is Mary Tilman. I would appreciate any help you could provide.

    Comment by Bill Morrissey — May 19, 2011 @ 2:08 pm

  491. Looking for BILL YANTIS, he can connect with me at bobdavey0406@comcast.net. Looking forward to hearing from him !!!

    Comment by BOB DAVEY — May 21, 2011 @ 12:27 pm

  492. I finished basic at Dix in ’67 and was assigned to USAINTS/ Fort Holabird in the fall of ’67. What a treat after basic. I had graduated from American University in Washington DC so I knew the area. I had a car and spent most weekends in DC. I got my orders for Vietnam in Dec ’67 as a 96B(intelligence analyst) and arrived in RVN, 90th RPL Depot 5 days after the Tet offensive in 1968. I got orders for the 10th PSYOP Bn in CanTho where I spent the next 13 months in S-2 under a LT Dunroe and others. I can be reached at msternbach@aol.com

    Comment by Michael Sternbach — May 23, 2011 @ 6:29 pm

  493. Hello my Name is Jeff Terrell I was at Ft. Ha Ha from late December 65 to 22 April 66 and was in class 66-B-14C and received an MOS of 97B40. Like everyone else has said what an experience, so much different than the regular army. So much more, wonderful instructors and great experiences and learning that has lasted a lifetime. From Ft. Holabird about half the class went to Nam about a third to Korea and the rest all over. One lucky person Russell Juckett went to Hawaii. I went to the 502 MI in Young Dong Po ROK. May 66 to June 67. And to POST 236 DAN RUNDELL we must have been there at the same time but I do not remember you. But I do Remember LTC Cogar a non drinker but present at the compound bar every night just to be with the guys not to keep an eye on them and LTC Strobridge who drank like a fish who was before him. Our bar was something else wasn’t it. Seen Full Birds turned away at the gate and bar girls brought in. Then there was Chubby Kim, Combat Kim and Day Kim our interpreters and Kimmy Kim one of the waitresses at our mess hall, mess hall like hell or restaurant. Dan you mentioned Ralph Stein he was the boy from NYC who had never driven a car in his life and I can not remember if he got a military DL or not. But as I recall later he was the one who made some bad remarks about army intelligence to the national press. Korea was a great assignement. From Korea I went to the 113 region 2 Kalamazoo, MI resident office as a S/A. One big FUBAR by the army. I did not ask for a hardship transfer or PCS but they stationed me 60 miles from my home which was in Jackson, MI. Got caught up in the riots of 68 and spent some time as liason with the Grand Rapids and Benton Harbor PD’s. Great duty at the RO. Probably should have stayed in or went to the CIA as I had an opportunity to do but instead got out and spent 31 years as a police offficer. Now retired and living in New Mexico. I can be reached at jhrst66@wildblue.net but could be changing to jhrst66@gilanet.com

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — May 26, 2011 @ 11:07 pm

  494. Forgot to mention the snow in Jan 66 it was nothing. Being from Michigan I was use to snow so two of us took my VW and hit the streets, we were the only ones out there, nothing else moving the first day.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — May 26, 2011 @ 11:12 pm

  495. Visited Ft. Huachuca, south of Benson AZ and South east of Tuscon in Feb 2010. They have a nice MI museum there. I looked for the Sphinx that at been at Holabird, plain as I recall, but all I could find there was fancy gold and blue I think were the colors. Wonder what happen to the original ones.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — May 26, 2011 @ 11:29 pm

  496. Sitting here tonight thinking of my friends from MI. Most of us were just kids. I remember once during the ’68 rioting, telling my section head that I was unsure what to do one night. I said I’m too young for this responsibility and he said to me that they wouldn’t put you someplace that they thought you couldn’t handle. I guess we all grew up fast during those times But in the end we really had pretty good duty compared to some of the other crap people had to put up with. Monday I am decorating the family graves: Civil War, Indian Wars, Spanish American War, Boxer Rebellion, WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. My 14 yr old son asked me recently if I would want him to serve. I thought for a moment and realized that all those in the family who had served before had never had a fatality. I wondered for a moment if maybe the odds were stacked against us now, especially with our seemingly never ending current war. But in the end I told him it would be his decision. I told him that I believe that everyone should serve their country in some way. But it would be his to decide. Now I know what my father must have felt like in 1967 when he had two sons and a daughter in the Army. Memorial Day brings this out in me every year. God Bless all of you and thank you for your service

    Dave Edmonds

    Comment by Dave Edmonds — May 28, 2011 @ 9:54 pm

  497. The last I saw of the original sphinx, they were at Fort Meade.

    Comment by Al Alvord — May 29, 2011 @ 8:15 am

  498. Best wishes on this Memorial Day 2011!

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — May 30, 2011 @ 7:05 pm

  499. I was a dependent there from 1955 – 1958. We were able to wander everywhere – never knew what was there, still do not so to speak.

    Comment by Stan Polonsky, Jr — May 31, 2011 @ 11:35 am

  500. Holabird Secret Memories

    I entered the army April 4, 1955, as a volunteer. Even with a college degree and some graduate work, it was almost impossible to land a decent job with the draft hanging over my head. The draft board said it would be about nine months before I would be called, so I volunteered in March. Then, in April at the physical in Chicago, I objected. They put my eyesight down as 20/200 uncorrected for each eye. (That was the worst they could put down and still take me.) Actually, my eyesight was worse than 20/800 in each eye. They claimed an outside doctor could not help me; they had to go by their own examination. They said, “We want you and we are going to take you!” So I became a “4F” in uniform and entered into a two-year battle with the army.

    My brother tried to enlist during WW-II and almost was accepted after a second examination. He was blind in one eye. Overseas I examined ARs and SRs and found: “If the vision in one eye is worse than 20/200 uncorrected, the vision in the other eye must be at least 20/50 correctable to 20/20.” Also, I saw the records of numerous peopls. Many of them had recorded vision of 20/200 for each eye, but none were worse. So they can adjust their findings according to their needs.

    I did my internship at Fort Leonard Wood. There I was given an interview for the CIC. My step-father, a Lt. Commander in the Navy Reserves, said the Navy’s definition of “CIC” was, “Christ, I’m confused!” I was asked to write a paper on the three branches of our government. Somehow I figured it out. Then we talked. He asked me a series of questions like: Who is the commander of this base? the secretary of the army? etc. To each question I replied, “I don’t know. He finally asked “Who is the vice-president? I hit my head and said “Wow, I should remember that! I saw him speak just two-months ago at the Univ. of Illinois. His wife’s name is Pat, he has two daughters and he is from California. But. somehow I can’t remember his name.” Then he said, “I was going to ask you who the president is, but I don’t wan’t to embarrass you!” Quickly I joked saying, “That’s easy. it’s Roosevelt!”

    While on vacation back home in Chicago, my step-father arranged for me to fly from Glenview Naval Air Station to Washington, D.C. It was my first airplane experience. I was the only passenger. The plane was a Navy jump plane with a long bench seat on each side and hook-up bars overhead. They handed me a parachute. I handed it back and said, “You have to be kidding.” They were, but I was worried all the way to D.C.

    At Ft. Holabird I had to wait over a month for a new analyst class to be formed. Our group was all privates, so we were told at least three times that they would have to select one of us to be the leader. We retreated to the orderly room and enjoyed a short talk by our first sargent. His name may have been Tanner. Then our CO entered to deliver a “”welcome” address. It may have been 1st Lt. Moran. We all settled back and sunk down in our seats for this event. I noticed the Sargent standing in the corner of the room looking all around at our group. I thought to myself, “Do I want to be the Group Leader?” I decided to go for it, so I sat up real straight and acted like I was paying attention! The Lt. finished and left the room. The Sargent was suddently in front of me pointing a finger directly at me. He said. “You! Do you want to be the Group Leader?” “Me, Sarge?” I replied. “Well, OK.” He sent me to talk with the Lt., while he talked to the troops. Leaving the Lt. I encountered the Sargent by the supply room. He informed me that he had explained to the group that my word was the same as his, that I was an acting sargent and that he would back me. I looked at him, three-stripes up, three down and a diamond in the middle. I said, “Gee, Sarge, does that mean I can go to the NCO Club in the evenings now?” When he finally recovered his composure, he stuttered, “No, I don’t think it goes quite that far!”

    My Mother and Step-father came for a visit and stayed in Officer’s Quarters. He was on a business trip and had to go elsewhere for a few days. So I talked to the Manager of the Officer’s Club and made arrangements to dine there with my Mother. I was requested to not wear my uniform.

    I had a problem with a molar, while at Holabird. A dentist cleaned out a cavity and put in a temporary filling. He said, “Try that. If it is still OK after a month, I will put a permanent filling in it I returned after a month and a different dentist took care of me. As he was getting started, I stopped him. I said, “That was a pretty healthy shot you gave me! What are you planning to do? He said, “I”m planning to pull that tooth.” I asked, “Why?” He said that it had a double whammy in it. I asked what a double whammy was? He said, “Two small cavities.” That was when I blew up! I said, “Like hell you’re going to pull it! Not for a double whammy. You can see all the work that has been done to preserve my teeth. My father is a dentist. I was accepted at Northwestern Dental School. I have lived around dentists all my life and I have never heard the expression, “Double Whammy,” previously! He filled the cavities.

    One of our group went to OCS (Officers Candidate School). At graduation he got confused and accepted his diploma in his right hand. Smooth as could be he saluted General Campbell with his left hand. There was a lot of laughing in the audience, but the General was kind enough not to let on that he had noticed it.

    One of our group went to the Republic of Panama. He could not take a uniform. What a great assignment. He may have served anywhere in South or Central America. Twenty-years later I spent six-years in Panama. I found my second wife there. The rest of our class was split. One group went to Korea and the rest of us went to Stuttgart. I crossed the Atlantic on a ship, while the others flew. The ship was the USNS General Simon B. Buckner (T-AP-123). The captain of that ship was later in the MSC (Military Sealift Command) and was the captain of the USNS Observation Island, T-AGM-23, an Air Force tracking ship. I took turns on it as a civilian, computer programmer. Our normal duty post was in the Bering Sea near Kamchatka, Siberia. It was part of the unratified, SALT II Treaty to help monitor Soviet missile development. We sometimes enjoyed a mid-cruise break at Adak, Alaska, in the Aleutian Islands.

    While at Holabird during the summer of 1955, two-year people were allowed in both schools. Sometime later students were required to extend for a third year at the conclusion of the agent class. In 1956 one or more students refused to extend. The word got around and soon whole classes were refusing to extend. In Stuttgart people started to arrive with a letter recommending the person be assigned administrative duties. These letters soon became printed forms. Finally, extentions were required prior to starting class.

    I arrived at the 66th CIC Headquarters (7915th USAREUR Liaison Group) too late one afternoon to check-in. My classmates were there and we went out for some drinking. After one to two hours of sleep, a practice, area alert sounded. We had to get dressed and go to the gym to sleep on the mats.

    There are many great stories from Stuttgart, but just let me say that many a departing agent or analyst left with tears in his eyes. We all recognized the unlikelihood of ever being associated with such a great group again.

    Hello to Charles Tilley, Tom Levy, John Sanders, John Gibich and many others. I would enjoy hearing from you at Nowslimmer32@gmail.com.

    Comment by Paul E. Johnson — May 31, 2011 @ 2:25 pm

  501. Stan (#499),

    Neither did we (“55-“57) and we kind of helped the place operate. Another question for some of you who sent through training (enlisted only here) at Holabird pull KP, guard duty, etc. only permament party have this pleaure. If so, this was the opposite of most oher bases. Just wondering..thanks.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 31, 2011 @ 3:50 pm

  502. Stan #499. What ages were you when you were at Holabird? See my posts #478 and #481. Did you live on the post? I don’t recall a kid of my age named Stan??

    Comment by Bill Larner — May 31, 2011 @ 6:40 pm

  503. Test submt comment.

    Comment by Dan — May 31, 2011 @ 11:57 pm

  504. Wow! I’am impressed; so many comments re Fort Holabird. Now it’s my turn. Spring ’59 graduated Washington State College (now University); commissioned 2nd Lt. and off to Ft. H for the 9666 course via Fort Benning, where required to complete Infantry Officers Basic because the CG at Ft. H was tired of 2nd Lts right out of college treating Ft. H like it was a college campus and not following Army protocol. My class was the first to have to go to Ft. H via Ft. B. At Benning became close friend of Willie Brickhouse, the only African-American in our class. We socialized on base, but could not be together off base in Columbus, GA because of segregation. When we were about to complete our 9666 training our class leaders arranged with a well-known restaurant for a dinner party. Lined up outside the restaurant door with Willie standing next to me, there was an unexplained delay in entering. After we entered, we had an enjoyable time. Later, I learned that when the restaurant manager saw Willie, he would not allow us to enter. But, when our class leaders gave him two choices; let us in or watch us destroy your restaurnt, he chose the later, but charged extra for beverages. All of us, except Willie, reimbursed our class leaders the difference. Willie never knew this occurred. He was killed in VN when his helicopter was shot down. From Ft. H, I went to the ALS for 48 weeks of Chinese-Mandarin then to Korea, then Taiwan, then back to Ft. H for the Advanced Course. Because I married a Korean, I had to request a waiver to keep my badge and creds, which I received. I was a 05 when I retired after 20 years serving mostly overseas including VN and Iran. My civilian career was with Army Intelligence and then DIA (DHS) as a Case Officer. I avoided the Pentagon although one time came within a phone call of being assigned there. Looking back, I never intended to serve more than the required two years, but my time a Ft. H, the ALS (now DLI) and traveling the world provided a career I would do all over again. I loved the roll-playing; couter-surveillance and lock pick training at Ft. H; I still have the lock pick set issued to me.

    Comment by Dan Tompkins — June 1, 2011 @ 12:31 am

  505. I arrived at Ft. Holabird in l957 after basic training at Ft. Knox, and began the counterintelligence analyst classes with forty-plus others, almost all college grads. When they told me at Knox that I was
    going to Ft. Holabird in Baltimore, I was surprised since I grew up in York, Pennsylvania, only forty miles
    away, and I had never heard of Ft. Holabird.
    After completing the course, I then remained at
    Holabird for the rest of my two years. I was in the
    office of Col. William Law, who was head of the combat
    intelligence section of the school.
    I recall the Blue Bird Inn across from the main
    entrance to the base, and two nearby restaurants–Karsons and the Brentwood Inn. It may be that the
    Brentwood Inn was later renamed the Holabird Inn that
    is mentioned in many other comments on this site. They were especially proud of their old and extensive wine cellar that they delighted in showing off.

    I agree that it was a very relaxing place for an army post. Often we would change into civvies after
    five o’clock and head into downtown Baltimore to see
    Oriole games, plays, and concerts which we saw free because of tickets given us at the USO club on the base.
    I’d love to hear from Bill Hutton, Ralph Pataglia,
    Sam Keller, Norm Hoffheiser, or any of the others who
    I met at Holabird.

    Comment by Richard Thomas — June 1, 2011 @ 4:13 pm

  506. Dan Tompkins (post#504)
    Dan, were you ever the CO of 502nd in Korea? I was there from Sept. 66 – March 68.

    Comment by Steve Bostick — June 2, 2011 @ 7:17 am

  507. Hi,Steve.
    In 1966, I was CO of HQ Co, 502nd. Not my favorite assignment; but I learned alot. I was slotted for a field office, but about the time I reported for duty, the CO needed a HQ Co commander, and I was the newest arrival. Aloha, Dan

    Comment by Dan Tompkins — June 7, 2011 @ 4:13 pm

  508. Jeff Terrell (comment 493)
    I think I remember your name, but not sure of the face-might have a photo of you in my stuff though. What office were you in? I was in Liaison with Mr. Donald Fox, John Smart, Dick Larabee (I think that was his name), and George Koopman. Chubby Kim (Kim, Ho Kun) was my buddy and one of the 2 interpreters who resided on base. Ralph Stein is still in New York and is a Law Professor at Pace University.
    George Koopman is deceased and led a interesting post MI life. He is the last name listed in the credits for “The Blues Brothers” movie.
    I was at the 113th MI Group HQ from January 68 to April 69 and remember the riots and the Democratic National Convention demonstrations we followed.
    Tracy Compound was a unique experience!
    Dan

    Comment by Dan Rundell — June 7, 2011 @ 9:07 pm

  509. Noting comment #508 Jeff Terrell was at the 113th as was I. I recently reconnected with a fellow agent from Region 1, 113th, using this site. I was there from July 65 to Sept. 66. My fellow agent was there before and after me. Perhaps Jeff Terrell recalls Bob Davey? Jeff, do you recall any other names from the 113th?
    Remarkable how 45 years fall away in a flash and I’m driving a ’64 nasty green Plymouth Valient. knocking on doors and checking LIDMC.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 15, 2011 @ 9:52 am

  510. Hey, everybody,

    I was in school and stationed at Holabird from March 1966 until early 1967 when I got so bored I volunteered for Vietnam. I remember Nick Nolter. We went to Spain together on a thirty day leave, ran out of money after five days and had to fly home in the back of a military air transport. That trip was a lot of fun. I also visited your home in Pennsylvania, playing poker all night in a bar that never closed. Look me up on facebook, Nick if you like. Also, are Mike Covey or Dez Gleason out there?

    Charlie Brooks

    Comment by CHARLIE BROOKS — June 21, 2011 @ 5:38 pm

  511. Message 149, July 2009, Caesar Rosales, you were in my class at the Bird. We used to call you ” RO-SALES “, your were a quiet compatriot. Can you shoot me an email at : JeffreyDGallant@yahoo.com? Glad you, Nick Pappas, and Rocco Nudo made it home, thanks… I have active contact with Brian Landry and Hap Walter Farrell. I am retired military since 2003 and still work as a department of the army civilian in the intelligence field.

    Best….. JEFF GALLANT, R-12, 96B, Fort Holabird, April 1969.

    Comment by Jeff Gallant — June 22, 2011 @ 5:41 am

  512. This is a great site and I will be back to share some memories. You guys hit the bull’s eye with your characterizations of life at the “Bird.”

    Comment by Wendell Williams — July 1, 2011 @ 3:16 pm

  513. Re #378. Would this be Bob Reinhart who served as a Major in Munich circa1956-57?

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — July 3, 2011 @ 6:06 pm

  514. Dear Patriots,

    I hope you are all enjoying Independence Day and wish good health and continued freedoms that we still have.It’s an honor to have been associated with Holabird personnel in duty and to the contributors to this site.We are a special group and I’m honored to be a part of it. God Bless you all & God Bless America!

    Ed. Hotchkiss Ref.# 187(R-11,Feb. 67)

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — July 4, 2011 @ 1:55 pm

  515. Ed et.al.,

    Amen!

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — July 4, 2011 @ 4:40 pm

  516. Happy Independence Day, Fort Holabird Friends and Family.

    You have no idea how thrilled I am that my February 17, 2003 post, to my surprise, has turned out the way it has.

    Again, thank you all.
    Jim
    http://parkwayreststop.com

    Comment by Jim — July 4, 2011 @ 5:46 pm

  517. Got to the “Bird” in late July 1964 for the agent’s course (971?) after a pleasant eight week workout at Ft Leonard Wood. After basic my orders were afoul as I was to go to Ft. A.P.Hill in Virginia [Transportation Corps – the thought of being a truck driver in the jungle did’t set well with me at all. Took a couple of days to straighten that out. Spent a week in New York City with a “freind” I met on the train from Chicago to Baltimore. She went on to Spain and I lost track of her. Place reminded me of college – very relaxed – very casual. Our “class” was picked to wear the chrome pots for each Friday’s retreat ceremony. Remember a fine bunch of individuals with so many different backgrounds I was amazed. Spent lots of time at a place called Minnicks (sp?)in Dundalk – good music and nice company. Assigned to Milwaukee 1964-1966 and then to Pleiku via Ft Bragg. Didn’t accomplish much for that tour. Came back to Oakland Army Terminal and OUT! I found out later that a great uncle had been assigned to Holabird when it was part of the Army Transportation Corps as a steam locomotive repair facility. Those were the old days but evidence of that service still existed in ’64. Drove past the place in the 1980’s and it was gone. Sad. I have many fond memories, even today, of the place

    Comment by Lawrence Gueller — July 5, 2011 @ 9:30 pm

  518. Jim, we can’t thank YOU enough! What a great site. We all seem to have had the same experience at Fort Holabird and the Dundalk area. I can’t believe it was 47 years ago and It still seems like yesterday. I check this site at least 4 times a week and can’t wait to read the new posts. Happy 4th and keep the posts flowing.
    Bill

    Comment by bill — July 5, 2011 @ 11:43 pm

  519. Adding to my post # 500: Some of you attended the Friday Evening Post Dances. I figured that all of the girls there had been cleared, so I went to a bar across the street. One of my girlfriends there and I used to walk several blocks in the residental area of Dundalk to a neigborhood bar. Some of the people there used to do some of the most fantastic jitterbug dancing that I have ever seen. It was like a nightclub floorshow.

    Also. I went to the USO in downtown Baltimore once. I took a nice girl home. She lived near Johns Hopkins Univ., where one of my daughters graduated in 2000. I asked her if we were south of the Mason-Dixie Line since I had never kissed a Southern Girl previously. The warm kisses, which she gave me, made the trip worthwhile. She had warned me that there would not be another streetcar returning until morning. I had to walk almost all the way back to the downtown area before I caught a taxi.

    One of my great classmates looked a lot younger than his 22 years. So on Friday evenings he went to dances at a high school in Dundalk. He claimed to have a great time with those young girls. Sometimes I wondered if he was after the young teachers. We served together in Stuttgart. He spent his time learning German, while most of us were drinking the good German Bier.

    Comment by Paul E. Johnson — July 6, 2011 @ 3:34 pm

  520. After basic at Ft. Ord, CA (now gone to state), I was sent to Ft. Holabird, MD (in Dundalk area). That was April 1962. Berlin was hot between USA & USSR. Vietnam was just warming up. Ft. Holabird was the HQ of U.S. Army Intelligence (INTC) and the Intelligence School. Everything regarding intel was taught there. Photos, satellite, wire intercepts and defense against the other guys (USSR) snooping. I went through the Special Agent School. The term Army CIC (Counter Intel Corps) had just been retire in favor of the new title, INTC (Intel Corps). Our course was 16 weeks of learning interrogations, interview techniques, Russian forces, USSR government, Communism, Marxism, security procedures, etc. Due to the big USSR vs. USA Berlin Crisis, our course was shortened to 11 weeks. I was one of 11 graduates to be assigned to the 526th INTC Detachment, Naha, Okinawa, Ryukyu Islands (then a US territory). The Army General in charge was in charge of all US forces and the local government. We were his everything and did whatever the CIA would do. I worked in civilian clothes right next to an Army Major, he in uniform. He was the nicest man you could imagine and spoke Japanese fluently, knew all their jokes and songs and culture. Our jog was liasion with the local police. What fun, great lifetime experiences. Although only a private, then a PFC, I mixed with many who outranked me, but intel it is not like the infantry or artillery. My group I went over with is still in touch and next year we will have a 50th Anniversary reunion. We expect over 20 attendees. My last year in the Army I was sent back to Holabird as an Instructor. Nice assignment.
    Harold

    Comment by Harold Patin — July 6, 2011 @ 5:07 pm

  521. Was at the ‘Bird from August 70 – November 70 (96B20). Spend a year at the 525 MI Group RVN and returned to Holabird until ETS June 1973 (US Army Europe section.

    Comment by John Vitikacs — July 13, 2011 @ 1:06 pm

  522. Still a great website. I check in several times a year to see if old Holabird and 502nd MI friends have found it yet. Not to many yet, but I will keep checking.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — July 15, 2011 @ 7:56 pm

  523. Hi. I live a stones throw from the area where Fort Holabird was. In fact the business park is still called Fort Holabird. I remember riding my bike through the hills there and sled riding down tank hill in the 1980’s. This is way after they closed. There was 2 to 3 buildings left. Eventually they were tore down. I drove through there about 2 years ago and now they lease part of it out for a community garden..Wish it had stayed a military base, but I assume it was too small. I have a question. My Aunt was a military groupie. Her name was Betty Atwell. She would of hung out around there from 1940 ish to 1960ish. She married a PAUL S. MILLER sometime in the 1940’s. Does anyone remember any of them??? Thanks and thank you for your service to our country.\

    Michelle

    Comment by Michelle Flory — July 23, 2011 @ 10:19 pm

  524. From my earlier post about PAUL S. MILLER,

    please feel free to email me @ shellf@verizon.net

    Comment by Michelle Flory — July 23, 2011 @ 10:38 pm

  525. I’m still interested in contact with anybody who served with Region 1 of the 113th INTC; especially in the mid-60’s. Also, has anyone run across George Gore or Nick Hanson, both of whom were in II and were at Holabird in 1965? I’d love to reconnect with them. Best to all old agents everywhere.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — July 26, 2011 @ 2:28 pm

  526. re: mssg 525: Bill Yantis: I was assigned to the 113th INTC between December 1964 and January 1966. I was assigned to the Milwaukee Field Office for that period of time.

    Comment by Lawrence Gueller — August 9, 2011 @ 7:43 pm

  527. re: msg #520 from Harold Patin. I just happened to check back on this site and found your recent post. Would like to hear from you.

    Comment by Mike Chiuchiolo — August 17, 2011 @ 10:32 am

  528. Great place (late 1969 to early 1970).
    As stated by others, very casual (my cousin was in town and bought a dozen crabs and two six-packs of beer, and came visiting me in the barack one night–no problem being let in!).
    Remember the Dundalk “Dollies” as we would call them.
    Hola-Burgers across the street from the front gate.
    Was a 97B40 Counter Intelligence Agent.
    Remember the two actors that helped train us in conducting interviews for background investigations–Peachy Keen and Peter Poor. They were very good.
    Remember “The Block” . . . .
    98 percent of us went to Viet Nam or Viet Nam language school–I went straight to Nam and ended-up assigned to the Special Operation Branch, 4th MI Company, 4th Division where I performed 97B4o duties and the 96C duties of running informants for 6 months. Got in a jeep with my two interpreters every day and drove-off into the sunset looking for information.
    Spent the next six months on a MACV Advisory Team and started it by going to Vung Tau for the Pheonix Program training–it was a wild ride.
    Made one mistake: Had the brilliant idea of not taking any R&R until my last 2 months, thinking that I would be busy going and coming from R&R in the 11th months and that I was protected by the unofficial (30 day) short-timer rule (under 30 days, women and childen went on operations before you did!). The stress of the last few months, prior to going on R&R really build-up and wore very heavily on me; but I made it!
    Certainly, war is truly hell; but, I can look back on some of the bright spots, though few (comraderie, my interpreters, getting into town, too many I can’t write about . . . and leaving).
    Oh, many stories and not enough time to write them all.
    Two quick one’s:
    The Green Snake: On the Advisory Team, as the Pheonix advisor, had a cat called Rabit because it was caught in the door, hurt it’s back and kind of hopped around–would catch rats at night, eat the outside and leave the guts on the floor in front of my sleeping accomodations (lots of animals–our CO was CIA and had two Rhodesian Ridgeback dogs as his bodyguards; monkeys, ferret (call it a bananna cat?), baby tiger (I called it, “The Big Mit” as in baseball mit because when the baby tiger opened it’s paw, it was LARGE)). One night I heard some noise in our small tin living quarters and it was the guys standing around a two foot green snake that has a bright orange solid color on the bottom portion of the end of it’s tail–same snake as in the Kurt Russel movie, “Soldier.” The 1st Louie said it was poisonous as it had a triangle head–didn’t know that. We were asking each other repeatedly, “What is the (proper)name of the green snake” when I came-up with the brilliant idea of asking my interpreters–one Vietnameese and the other Montenyard, two, so that one would keep the other one honest in their interpretations–what the name of the snake was. They lived in Vietnam and WOULD KNOW. They both answered in the native tongue and I said to them, “in English, please”–to which they replied, “Green Snake.” So much for the obvious. Rabbit was bitten, went into the corner and stayed there for clo9se to a week to recuperate–and did recuperate.
    Short Timer: The infantry boys were planning a operation and the 2nd Lieutenant, from Ohio, who had a few days over the 30 day short-timer rule, refused to go. The CO and the infantry Captain were discussing court martialing him and I volunteered to take his place–he didn’t get court martialed.
    Lots of memories.
    97B40–Roger Diaz (E-5, Bronze Star)

    Comment by Roger Diaz — August 20, 2011 @ 3:29 pm

  529. I arrived at Ft Holabird in Sep 1962, after graduating from Colgate University and M Company, 3d Battalion, FT Dix. I’d gone from 2S to 1A in a heartbeat, so took an extra year to do something more interesting than groundpounding. I was a 973, as I recall, and always envied those DAME and DASE guys with the black bags. The Army asked me where I wanted to be assigned after graduation and I said the Presidio of SF. So they sent me to Germany. I left NYC in Dec. ’62 aboard the USS Buckner, and after a frigid N Atlantic crossing arrived in Bremerhaven, and Camp King, on 24 Dec ’62. I was ultimately assigned to the 513th INTC at Oberusal, with duty station at G2 Division, HQ USAREUR, Heidelberg. Three of the best years of my life.
    I had wanted to be an FBI agent, but Mr Hoover was only hiring lawyers and accountants at the time, so I didn’t make the cut. At EAS I hooked up with the Naval Investigative Service [now NCIS] as a Special Agent. I was first assigned to the San Fran area but transferred in 1968 to NISHQ with duty station, quess where? Fort Holabird. I spent two years there as NIS rep in the Records Center to all federal agencies doing criminal history inquiries. This was during the “Days of Rage” and deep under the building we were keeping track of the activities of the Weather Underground, the Panthers, SNC, etc. Lots of memories.

    Comment by Chad Howgate — September 2, 2011 @ 11:30 pm

  530. I regret to report the death of my good friend Tom Stephens. I first met Tom in at Region IV Munich. We shared many a great adventure both there and when we got home. He was a class or three ahead of me at the ‘bird. That would make it sometime in 1955. He was from Greenwhich, Conn and graduated from Williams.
    During the Hungarian Revolution he was sent home by plane, accompaning a group of Hungarians. He Attended German Language School at the Presidio and Hungarian down in O’gau.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — September 4, 2011 @ 2:22 pm

  531. ED, Sorry for your loss.

    Comment by bill — September 5, 2011 @ 12:12 am

  532. I was at Fort Holabird late 65 to 66. Image Interperter 96D20 Leaving there I was assigned to the 25th MID of the 25th Inf. Division in Hawaii. One month after arriving there, boarded a ship with a Regiment of the Division for Viet Nam. Spent one year there a few months at Ft. Bragg and my last year in Seoul and Osan Korea.

    Comment by Bruce Woods — September 23, 2011 @ 9:37 pm

  533. This is for Ed Delehanty who asked if anyone was in White Plains for trainig. I was one of the spooks being followed. It was in the fall of 1968. My class was 68 DE-9. I did meet your mother on the corner and gave the all clear sign and then the pass word and received the paper. As far as I recall, your mother did not seem old enought to have a son in the Army. Your brother was no doubt the CI agent who came to my hotel room with his friends and tore the room apart, put a bag over my head and put me in the trunk of a car. I was driven to a place that smelled of rubber tires and interrogated. Interesting experirence! You were made to think you were behind the Iron Curtain and it worked to a degree. My email is usaints68@gmail.com.
    I am looking for any other classmates who went to RVN with Special Forces.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — September 27, 2011 @ 2:29 pm

  534. Got room for a dinosaur? I was at Holabird between Dec. 1945 and June 1946! Having graduated from Military Intelligence Language School [Mandarin Chinese], I was sent the Counter Intelligence Corps School for “training.” It took about a week to be sent to Hqs Company where I became the Supply Sergeant for the Hqs and HQs Company. My primary function there was to outfit returning CIC field agents ready for discharge. They had been stationed in civies all over the world but the Army would not discharge them until they had full uniforms, etc.! It was great duty in a great place. One high spot was viewing the Sunday morning soccer games played by German POW’s held at Holabird. I also made many trips to Fort Meade and to the Pentagon from Holabird as a courier. I had to go back to Meade to be discharged. After my group had received our discharges, we were lined up again and marched to Finance to collect a few cents extra for the raise that went into effect that day!

    Comment by Isaac W. Feinberg — October 16, 2011 @ 5:07 pm

  535. Isaac (#534),

    Thank you for sharing this bit of history. More please.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny — October 18, 2011 @ 10:09 am

  536. Isaac(#534)

    Give us some more of the dinosaur diaries from Holabird and/or other assignments. Thanks!

    Ed. H

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — October 18, 2011 @ 12:05 pm

  537. Refeence post 508 DAN
    It has been so long ago that I realy to not remember what office I was in. I remember working with a captured double agent as well as KNP< ROKCIA and others. I remembers some of the names you mention but cant put a face with any of them with maybe the exception of Fox. Is he the one that had his foreskin removed while he was there??? seems like he sat with his bsack to the outside wall of the quanset hut. Then there was the young kid, like we were realy old-23- who was not a agent but worked out constantly trying to get this hugh neck. Then there was the agent who had been there for ever spoke korean fluently and just keep extending. Remember the E6 who had gone to DAME or DASE and maid warrent while there. Two guys that were in my class that were assigned there with me were a Sexton and Thurston. Remember the CMMI inspection and when it was over NONE of the typewriters worked as we had taken all of them over to the motor pool and sprayed them down with some cleaning agent. Boy there were clean, but you could not type a word. Remember the two captins that use to come in to the bar ocassionally but come to find out they were actually CIA. Do you remember Jimmy Bogan the special forces type who had been in during WWII he was actually from C company and spoke one of the sand nations language.
    It was a good tour.

    JHRST66@gmail.com

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — November 1, 2011 @ 7:13 pm

  538. comment 509 Bill Yantis

    I did not get to the 113 Kalamazoo RO until July 67.
    there were only three of us in our office and actually one of them worked out of his home in Grand Rapids. The other man in the Kalamazoo RO was a Bill Brunner a civilian. Usually any contact with another office in the 113 was by him. It was great duty there. You know the interesting thing now is when you are talking to other in the American Legion, we just got a post started here but I go to district and state meetings, there coment is YOU WERE IN THE ARMY. To which I say well sort of. It was great duty and will never be forgotten.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — November 1, 2011 @ 7:21 pm

  539. Post 508 Dan

    In all honisty I do not remember where or what division I was assigned. I know that I worked with the Korean National Police and CIA. Some of the names you mentioned ring but not real hard. Was fox the older man that had is fre skin removed while he was over there??? Seems like he sat with his back against the outside wall of the quanset hut. Remember the younger kid not an agent, hell we were old at 23, whose dream in life was to get a size 17 neck, all he did was work out. Then there was the agent who had been there so long that he spoke Korean fluently. Seems like he was an e-6 with a korean wife. REmember the e-6 who had come to Korea from either DAME or DASE school and then made warrant officer. Do you remember charles Bogan he was from C company fbut sspent a lot of time at our bar,he had been a pilot in WWII in the navy he was with special forces then but doing a leg tour in korea. Remember the two captins that stopped in ocassionally for a drink or two but come to find out there were actually CIA. Two guys from my clas at the bird that come over at about the same time i did were a Jerry Saxton and a North Thurston. I still have a special order extract granting our MOS of 97B40 to all of those that graduated on 22 Apr 66. Hell I got a copy of every order and pay stub from when I was in the army.
    Take care, those were some good days.

    JHRST66@gmail.com

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — November 1, 2011 @ 7:37 pm

  540. Greetings!

    I am completing my Veterans Day morning thinking back over the last 40+ years and how, of all the things I have done (except being a dad), the one that still gives me the most pleasure to think about is my three years with USAINTC, and my time at the Bird. I guess it impressed itself on me so much becaue I had just turned 18 when I arrived and I spent some pretty formative years with some amazing people and seeing some incredible things. I hope that you all have similar experience to think back on. Many of my pals are gone, but like my late father said to me, no one is really gone if you can remember them. Today I hope to remember them all as best I can, then take my kids for a walk to the many city memorials where I live to talk to them about honor, sacrifice and friendship. Later, we will light a fire in the back yard and watch the full moon come up. They, though only 7 and 14, are very respectful of what veterans have done.

    God bless you all and be well.

    Dave

    Comment by David Edmonds — November 11, 2011 @ 11:49 am

  541. I found this sight researching Fort Holabird because I have a lot of Army manuals from 1952-1976 from my dad’s career (Johnny Dolin) in the (Special Forces 52-69 and reg. army 70-76) and one of his late best SF buddies Ethyl Duffield who was SF for I think mid 50’s through mid 70’s and was on the team that found Che Guevara in Bolivia. Anyways I am wondering does anyone know if these manuals from places like Intel school @ Fort Holabird and manuals from Fort Detrick, Maryland marked “official use only” are unclassified and can be sold like on eBay? Most have to do with Russian weapons and language, school of americas, insurgencies and counter insurgencies and sf ops and a few are from cross-traing with the UDT team right before they became the first seal team (he was in the first team to take navy diver training and also in the first team in the 50’s to take free-fall training (I have the certificates)). I know these have historical signifigance but am not sure if I can legally sell them due to the information contained in the manuals. I would assume they are too old to still be classified but just want to make sure I’m not doing anything illegal. Any information would be appreciated and I’ll have my dad look at this site when he makes it out of the hospital and maybe share his stories. I have been recording them on a tape recorder because he is in pretty bad shape and most people I do not think have heard these stories. I know he was sent to the Hungarian Revolution to steal a Russian tank and was in Op Hotfoot and Whitestar in Laos and built the first camp at Dak To in I think 62-63 and was in Song Be from 68-69. He also was sent to numerous countries in Europe, Africa and Central and South America from the early 50’s to mid 60’s. I am always looking for more questions to ask him for the tape recordings so if anyone knew him and has a story or has a question it would be appreciated. He was in 10th, 77th, 7th, 1st, SF Trng.Grp, 8th and 5th groups respectively. If anyone is interested I made a tribute video to him and his buddies on youtube titled: “Special Forces “Green Berets” Tribute 1952-1969″. I would also like to hear from anyone that knew Ethyl Duffield also as he was my godfather and I spent a lot of time with him in my teenage years before he died in the late 80’s. Thanks for your service and welcome home to all the veterans here.

    Comment by Joseph Dolin — November 17, 2011 @ 2:12 pm

  542. I just discovered this site. Thank you for all of the information and personal experiences that respondents have posted and shared. I hope that the site is still active. My father, James F. Lyle, who is now deceased, was assigned to Fort Holabird in the years of 1956-57. He had attended the Army Language School in Monterey CA, studying German, prior to his assignment. Because he was married with a family, when we joined him, we were housed off-post,(in Day Village?). He was later shipped to Weierhof Kaserne, Kirschheim-Bolanden, Germany. We, his family, later followed him to Europe. I was quite young at the time, but I am curious about his experience at Ft. Holabird, especially as and African-American in that time. I’d be grateful to receive any information about my dad. Thank you veterans!

    Comment by Dianne Lyle — November 20, 2011 @ 4:59 pm

  543. Like others, I stumbled across this great site! I arrived at Foret Holabird during the snow storm of Feb 1966 and graduated June 1966 as a 97B Agent. After reading all the other stories about how tough interviewing Peter Poor (Joseph Bandiera) could be, I wanted to share with all the other Agent grads out there the following obit I found on the web:

    “Joseph Bandiera, 82, formerly of Baltimore, MD, passed away June 8, 2006 in Scottsdale, AZ. He had a wonderful, loving relationship with the late Pearl McGraw, with whom he enjoyed ballroom dancing. He also enjoyed acting in Arizona & Baltimore. He was blessed with many loyal & loving friends. In WWII he received a purple heart in the battle of Iwo Jima. He is survived by three nieces and one nephew, 8 great-nieces/nephews and 10 great-great-nieces/nephews. A Catholic Mass of Resurrection will be celebrated on Friday, July 7, 2006 at 10:00 AM at St. Daniel the Prophet Church, 1030 N. Hayden Rd, Scottsdale AZ. Interment with military honors will be at Gardens of Faith Memorial Cemetery in the Sermon on the Mount section, 5598 Trumps Mill Rd, Baltimore, MD on Thursday, July 20, 2006 at 11:00 AM. Life-Paths Funeral Home, Scottsdale, handled the arrangements.”

    Rest in Peace Peter Poor. Your are remembered!

    — Bob Perry

    Comment by Robert Perry — November 21, 2011 @ 6:11 pm

  544. Dianne,

    I was at Holabird in1956-57 but do not recall a James Lyle their but do remember an intern school psychologist with the Cleveland (Ohio) Pubdlic Schools in the early ’60’s. Could it be?

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — November 24, 2011 @ 2:11 pm

  545. Looking for information about surveillance conducted for 9 months at Walter Reed Hospital by 116th INTC Group during 1968

    Comment by A B Campbell — November 26, 2011 @ 11:39 am

  546. attempting to get comment accepted on site

    Comment by Andrews Campbell — November 26, 2011 @ 11:50 am

  547. Got in. Requesting information concerning 9 month surveillance conducted at Walter Reed in 1967-1968

    Comment by Andrews Campbell — November 26, 2011 @ 11:51 am

  548. My name is Tommy Nettles. Went to Holabird in 67 &68 (97B). I was a poor student and even a poorer agent, but I was one. My father, Wyatt A. Nettles went to the agent course in 46 or 47 (Ma Klecka (sic)) remembered both of us. He was assigned to Frankfurt in 48 & 49 with the CIC. Then to Richmond, VA and Charlottesville, VA Resident Office (RO). Then off to Regensburg, Ger. (where I started school). Dad was assigned to the Evansville, IN RO in 55 and retired in 59. We moved to a farm in Manchester, TN. Wyatt was recalled in 65 and was assigned to Lexington, KY. He then was sent to Vietnam, Phanthet (sic) and got a bronze star. His last station was at Ft. Bragg. While I was in the hospital, Ft Knox, recovering from a wound I got in Vietnam, dad recruited me for the agent course. I had to wait several months, in the 54th Inf, Knox, til I turned 21. I got there in Nov 67, went to work at the Holabird Inn soon after. If I hadn’t spent so much time at the bar I would have been a better student and agent. The names Klecka, Bandiera, Holibird Inn, Harveys, etc. brings back many memories and a few tears. After school I was assigned to the Ft. Knox Field Office where I failed miserabilly. My dad never let me live it down. I was assigned as an Intelligence Analyst (96B) and sent back to Vietnam, MACV Tm 21, Pleiku. I got out of the army for seven months. Came back in Apr 71. Scewered the Drill Sergeants course and was sent back to Vietnam in Feb 72 where I was assigned as the Intelligence Coordinator (97D) for the Siagon field offfice, 525 MI Group, McCarrick Compound (good duty) I even made E6 there. Subsequently I was assigned to Redstone Arsenal, Ft Huachuca, as the Bn Operations Sgt, Student Bn, USAICS, Nuremburg, Stuttgart, back to Operations Sgt at Huachuca, 2d Bdg, 3d Armored, 5th Army, Ft Sam, Camp Humpheies, ROK, and 197th Inf Bde where I retired as a Master Sergrant in 87. I remember Holabird fondly it was a part of my life since I was born. Thanks for the
    memories. Tommy Nettles

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — November 28, 2011 @ 3:12 pm

  549. Would like to hear from any of my fellow agents who served with the 66th CIC Group’s Region 33 detachment
    at Offenbach a/M from summer l951 to Sept. 1953.

    Comment by Frank Ramirez — November 29, 2011 @ 7:41 pm

  550. Would like to hear from any of my fellow agents who
    served with the 66th CIC’s Region III at Offenbach Am
    Main (Germany) from Summer l951 to Sept. 1053.
    Thanks much.

    Comment by Frank Ramirez — November 29, 2011 @ 7:45 pm

  551. Tom Nettles, did you work the bar at the Holabird Inn? I spent almost every night there for 3 years, 1965-1968 but sorry to say, I don’t remember you. Do you remember Rick Nesbitt? He worked the bar most of those years. I worked a few times checking ID’s at the door. I remember Lynn and a German waitress (Dedee?) Bob Foster was another bartender.
    The organ player had more investigations than any American because he would try to be friendly and ask everyone where they were from. All the students thought he was a spy looking for information and they would file reports.

    Comment by bill — December 1, 2011 @ 12:45 am

  552. Frank all I know is dad (Wyatt Nettles) was stationed at Regensburg 1952-1954. I was 6-8 yrs old. The names Yost and Bill Hicks sticks in my mind.

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 1, 2011 @ 8:52 pm

  553. Bill I am sure we drank beer (.25 each) together. I think there was a woman and two daughters who ran the bar, all attractive. I did everything, watched the door, bussed tables, washed dishes, tended bar and anything else they wanted. My main job was to open the bar at 6AM on Sat & Sun to tend the night shift of the various factories when they got off at 6AM. Rock and Rye was my best seller (.90) A Rolling Rock poney and a shot of rye. By 11AM the bar was empty til 1PM…Tom

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 1, 2011 @ 9:05 pm

  554. I have to know.. Was it a particular brand/type of rye or just the patrons favorite?

    Comment by Joseph — December 3, 2011 @ 11:22 am

  555. Tom Nettles, that explains it, I was never up before 1PM on Saturday or Sunday.

    Yes, the mother ran the place and two daughter worked as waitresses. The father cooked but never dealt with the customers. I drank bottled Bud until around the 3rd week of the month and then had to drink draft. When the money ran out completely, I went to the NCO Club and used the “chit” book. 3 years, great memories.

    Comment by bill — December 3, 2011 @ 11:53 pm

  556. Joseph After 43 years who knows what brand of Rye was the house brand. My memory is not that good.

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 5, 2011 @ 3:39 pm

  557. Bill the chits at the NCO Club got me through many of end of months too. Any one remember SFC Frank Miller who was a friend in my class Nov 67-Mar68 (97B). We also served together at McCarrick Compound (Saigon) in 72.

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 5, 2011 @ 3:43 pm

  558. I arrived at Holabird in July 68 for 69-B-3, Agent course. We had a really rank-heavy class with a Marine Gunny for class leader, a few other Marines and enough hard-stripe sergeants for four squad leaders. I’d arrived from Fort Hood as one of those sergeants and had the pleasure of marching the class to building 320 on many a day. Other than meeting the love of my life, getting married and getting promoted to staff sergeant, it was a pretty uneventful class, graduating 1 Nov 68. I wound up being assigned to the school as an instructor/demonstrator with the FTX committee. Had a great year teaching and harassing aspiring CI agents and the occasional agent handler. As a faculty member, I had a crack at the tech course slots that went unfilled so in December 69 I attended the DAME class. In the middle of that, I came down on orders for Berlin that required I attend the PHOTO class first. Sixteen sweet weeks of lock-picking and photo-taking before taking the wife and new baby to the capital of the cold war. But first, a stop at the 902nd in Baily’s Crossroads, Virginia. That’s a story of another day.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — December 5, 2011 @ 5:37 pm

  559. I got so distracted I forgot to name some names from the ‘bird. I never saw anyone else from my class except Robert White walked through the Finance Office in Berlin one day. Operational circumstances prevented me from talking to him. From FTX, our fearless leader LTC Spady Koyama, MSG (later SGM) Carter, “Gru” Gruhala who was married to one of the medics at the post clinic. Jack Lewis went from FTX to the PHOTO section as an instructor and then on to a career with Secret Service and the IG community. I still have his email address around here somewhere. Doug Burgener joined FTX from the 710th MID in Honolulu just before I left. Bob MacDonald, Ernie Fordham, Paul Warnken, Dan Deuel, Roy Kurnos; several guys shared an apartment on St. Paul St. downtown which was the scene of many a party. Our civilians, Dennis Cook and Al Strapelli. Dennis went on to fight organized crime in Las Vegas and died much too early. I found that out from Ernie Buck, (#289 above), when he and I compared careers at the State Department. OK, my head hurts now.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — December 6, 2011 @ 12:28 am

  560. Looking for anyone who served with the 109th MI Group, Cincinnati, Ohio from June 1966 to October 1967; 52nd MID with the 11th Light Infantry Brigade from Hawaii (Schofield Barracks) to Duc Pho, VN circa October 1967 to March 1968; or with the 204th MID at Provisional Corps Vietnam at Phu Bai, VN from March to September 1968. I was a 97B Agent in those MI units during those times. Looking for any fellow Agents or other MOS who served in those units at those times. My email is trinity70@verizon.net.

    Comment by Robert Perry — December 10, 2011 @ 8:27 pm

  561. Attended Holibird from March 1951 thru May 1961. Was married and lived in Wherry housing on base. I was in analyst 974.2 mos and was sent to the 112th in San Antonio. in 14 months made E-5. Ialmost stayed in theArmy. Anyone from my class?

    Comment by Jack Schabow — December 12, 2011 @ 11:42 am

  562. Regarding post #558. Not familiar with 69-B-3 Agent MOS. Anymore info? Thanks in advance.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — December 12, 2011 @ 8:17 pm

  563. 69-B-3 was a class number leading to the 97B MOS.

    Comment by bill — December 13, 2011 @ 12:05 am

  564. Gents: I would love to hear from any of my fellow AIS agents who sweved in Korea from 1965 thru 1966 either at Inchon, or Seoul. I would like to hear from some of my classmates either at the Bird, from November/December 1963 to April 1964. also if any went to the Language School in Monterey from May 1964 to May 1965. please feel free to respond to jhbone@vaughnlawfirm.net. look forward to hearing from some of you. j. bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — December 15, 2011 @ 4:22 pm

  565. I attended the “College on the Colgate” at Ft Holabird from Feb. 1969 to June 1969.

    Graduated as a Corporal, a 97B40, went on 2 week leave before reporting to ship out to Munich German in June 1969.

    During that time, the Army did away with the rank of Corporal, magically turning them all into SPEC 4s.

    All, that is, but for we on leave and a few other strays out there.

    No one wanted corporals as of July 1969. We did not exist. They could not even requisition us. Insane.

    Spent 4 extra days at Ft Dix before shipping out. They could not resolve the issue, so passed on us to Germany. “Let them deal with it.” In Germany, they did not know what to do with us, so we hung around and eventually blended ourselves into slots where we did not belong.

    Ended up at the 66th MI Group in Munich, and stayed there until August 1971. We Corporals were excess baggage who could not be re-assigned due to our non-existent rank.

    That kept me out of Vietnam, thank God.

    I thank the American taxpayers for my 25 months European vacation, during which I had a hell of a good time.

    Tom Dulaney dulaney505@comcast.net

    Comment by Tom Dulaney — December 16, 2011 @ 11:20 pm

  566. tom dulaney (#565),

    The sp-4 rank came in in 1955. This was a non-com rank in order for us to pull all the details we pulled as pfc’s (kp, guard, duty, etc.). This was our “punishment” for special skills and perhaps higher iq’s (though I have my doubts about the latter). And then they wondered why we didn’t re-up Army genius at its best.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 17, 2011 @ 4:48 pm

  567. Thanks for the memories. I was at the Byrd 68-69 then on to the 108th mi Group, Bronxsville Field Office. Great to hear from my comrads,

    Jim Kridel SA CIC

    Comment by Jim Kridel — December 18, 2011 @ 9:55 pm

  568. Happy holidays to all old Holibird grads. Went through the Bird in 68-69,then on to the Frankfurt-Farben. Here’s to retirement,and good old fashioned humit. LIDMAC.

    Comment by RF — December 19, 2011 @ 9:51 am

  569. Anyone remember a Duane L. Doyle (1965-1968)?

    Thanks,

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 22, 2011 @ 5:32 pm

  570. Does anyone recall Lt. Col. George Pattis? He served as CO of the 113th based in Chicago. He was CO when I was there in ’65 and ’66. Think he might have had some duty in Greece. Thanks.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — December 24, 2011 @ 12:57 pm

  571. Christmas Eve is the best when you have kids, I’m 62 with a seven year old (who is still in to Santa) and a fourteen year old (who is in to telling me that I am old). Fourty-four years ago I spent my first Christmas in the Army. Amazing how fast time goes. My grandfather, who lived to 103 years old told me: “If you are lucky you get old.” When I asked what that meant, he looked at me like I had three heads and said, “Luck is the great determinator.” Now, I think back to that and realize all the guys who went before me, a lot of it was dumb bad luck. A zig instead of a zag is the difference between being here or not. I am most grateful to the comments on this site. It brings me back to how lucky I was to have gotten into MI. We do not like to say it, but we kept Americas strong. My fourteen year old son recently asked me what really matters in life? What we did mattered. My best friend went into the Peace Corp when I went into the Army; that mattered too. We should remember all our friends who are gone; what they did mattered too.

    God bless you all. Merry Christmas and, God bless America

    Dave

    Comment by David Edmonds — December 24, 2011 @ 9:19 pm

  572. I visited the Two O’clock Club on the block where Blaze Starr was the main attraction- I left my wallet and ID in the barracks at Fort Holabird, a just in case thing you know, but Blaze didn’t come on till midnight and we had to be back in quarters before that. Her club was right beside the club Ronnie and Her Twin Liberty Bells. God bless that woman for her patriotism.

    Comment by John Washington — December 29, 2011 @ 5:11 pm

  573. Guess I probably did a no no but we and notice I did not mention any names lol but we took an AMEXCO (American Express Company) trip to Berlin and of course we all wanted to cross the wall which we did and spent an afternoon in East Berlin. Very clean streets -Unter Den Linden. We stopped at some park where we got out of the bus and I went up to a E. German soldier and asked if I could photograph him. He said “no” lol which was fine by me. He had two bars on his shoulder so I asked if he as a Hauptman and again he said “no” but I got a little anxious when he asked what did I do. So I told him I was a high school science teacher in Karlsruhe. When we first crossed the border and was in the East, the guards delcaired my passport invalid which it indeed was. I never even noticed. They said I had to pay a 15 mark fee for a 24 hour visa. I looked back at Checkpoint Charlie and saw the American flag there and silly me the thought ran through my mind wondering if I could make a run for it..Funny how your mind works when you are scared carpless.

    Comment by John Washington — December 29, 2011 @ 5:22 pm

  574. My passport had expired.

    Comment by John Washington — December 29, 2011 @ 5:28 pm

  575. I very well remember being told to break step going across the bridge at Colgate Creek.

    Comment by John Washington — December 29, 2011 @ 5:35 pm

  576. RE #452, #s 154, 206 and 475: I FINALLY made it to Fort Huachuca today and chatted with Paul Pippick at the Army Intelligence Museum there. Left him some of my brother Ed’s and my 1954-1961 Holabird and Region XII 66th CIC Group papers and papers from Fort Riley 1953 ROTC Summer Camp. Who knows what may come of that? At 80, it was time to get a Round Tuit. Happy 2012 to One and All.

    Comment by Frederick N. Evans — December 31, 2011 @ 7:33 pm

  577. Happy New Year!!
    For those interested, go to Facebook look up
    Seoul, Korea, Company B, 502nd MI Battalion

    Looking for old friends.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — January 3, 2012 @ 3:01 pm

  578. Anybody out there who remembers being in the HQ office in Bad Constadt 1957-58? I remember a great EM Club where we spent a good deal of time. I remember a few names such as Mike Fox, Pat Clancy, Msgt Ellis and a guy named Napeirski (I think) We all went to London and Paris just before I came home. (On the good ship Randall, Christmas Eve) It was Stettin Kaserne and the Flag Pole. I was transferred up from the Munich Field Office becaus they were overstrenght. (They Said)

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — January 4, 2012 @ 12:53 pm

  579. I was the first woman assigned to the 108th MI Hqs in Ft Devens MA, 1970-71, 97D on the job training. I worked with 2 warrant officers (Mr Boyda and another whose name I can’t remember, who could open absolutely any lock. The ASA guys used to come over in pairs, one would show him a lock and the man would take out his tools. The ASA guy would look at his watch and less than a minute later, the lock was open, Then the guy would turn to his friend and say- “pay up”. Anybody remember his name?
    That Christmas Mr Boyda and I sent a teletype Christmas greeting to all of the field offices with Santa on his sleigh and all 8 reindeer. LTC Harrington wasn’t amused by this misuse of government material and time, at least not officially.
    Later, I was sent to Ft Huachuca for the first 97D training after the move from Holabird.

    Comment by Donna Stevens — January 5, 2012 @ 8:36 am

  580. The 108th MI Gp Hqs was deactivated at the end of Jan 1972. It was quite a crazy place to work. I remember that LTC Harrington adopted the Frog as our unit mascot. We had frogs on our mugs, a frog poster, a frog on our door- and whenever someone came in from a higher unit, LTC Harrington instructed us to put our hands on our desks and say “Ribb-it!” like a frog. But we were lso sorn to secrecy not to tell why the frog was our mascot- The Frog’s true motto was “I’m so happy here I could croak!”

    Comment by Donna Stevens — January 6, 2012 @ 9:17 am

  581. My father just passed on December 20th. He was and instructor at Holibard from 1962 to 1966. He started there as an Air Force Sergeant and took a Chief Warrant Officer appointment with the Army and went to Vietnam. His name was Irvin Peterson but went by Bud or Pete. I have fond memories of Holibard, the jeep hill and the swimming pool. If anyone remembers my dad, email me brianandlisap@verizon.net.

    Thanks

    Comment by Brian Peterson — January 7, 2012 @ 11:19 pm

  582. JUST NOW STUMBLED ONTO THIS SITE. SHAME I DIDN’T FIND IT MUCH SOONER! I TOOK CI AGENT TRAINING AR THE BIRD FROM JUNE 1963 TO DEC. 1963. BACKING UP A LITTLE. I WAS A DRAFTEE AT RIPE OLD AGE OF 23. WHILE AT FORT POLK, ABOUT MIDWAY OF CYCLE, WAS TOLD TO REPORT TO CO. DAYROOM; A MAN IN CIVVIES TALKED TO ABOUT FIVE OF US ABOUT TAKING INTEL.CORPS TRAINING. BUT WOULD REQUIRE US DRAFTEES TO EXTAND ACITVE DUTY ANOTHER 11 MONTHS. I HAD NO IDEA WHERE THE ARMY MIGHT PUT ME O/W SO I DID IT. WHILE HOME AFTER BASIC I BOUGHT A NEW YAMAHA 250cc.MOTORCYCLE & RODE IT

    FROM FT.WORTH,TEXAS TO BALTIMORE. I WAS IN FAR EAST ORIENTATION WHEN PRES. KENNEDY WAS SHOT IN DALLAS. THE INSTRUCTOR HANDED OUT THE CERTIFICATES QUICKLY AND THAT WAS IT!! SINCE I WAS TO BE SENT TO THE 526th INTC DET ON OKINAWA, I GOT ADVANCED LEAVE & RODE THE BIKE BACK HOME & FLEW BACK TO BALT. STAYED AT THE 526th FROM DEC.63 TO JUNE 65. THEN ASSIGNED TO THE DES MOINES FIELD OFFICE FOR 9 MONTHS. RODE THE YAMAHA UP THERE BUT WHEN WINTER SET IN, SOLD IT TO AN ATF AGENT & BOUGHT A USED NASH RAMBLER . WHILE ON OKINAWA, I FOUND THE WORK & ENVIRONS VERY INTERESTING. LIKE A FEW OTHERS FOUND THE NAMINOUE(BAR) DISTRICT QUITE A PLACE. TO FRANK DAVIS, LTR #407; LEFT OUT US AGENTS;ME,ED DIAMOND,(REMEMBER OUR 53 MERCURY?). don leclaire,JERRY HERMAN,DAVE PLATZ.& ACOUPLE OF OTHERS. WHILE NEAR END OF MY TIME IN DES MOINES;WHENEVER I WAS ON PHONE TO OUR HQ IN K.C.,MO. COL.DRAGALIN WOULD GET ON THE LINE & GIVE ME THE RE-UP SPIEL. FINALLY, I TOLD HIM I WOULD FOR 6 YEARS IF HE WOUKD GUARANTEE ME IMMEDIATE OVERSEAS DUTY,EAST OR WEST. WELL, HE WANTED ME TO STAY IN IOWA FOR ANOTHER 9 MONNTHS, I VERY POLITELY SAID “”NO SIR”” & LEFT THE ARMY IN MARCH 66. NOW, ARE ALL YOU GUYS AWARE OF THE B&C RETIREMENT PROGRAM OFFERED BY THE ARMY INTEL.CORPS? I JUST RECENTLY BECAME AWARE OF IT. THEY WILL NOUNT YOUR BADGE & CREDS IN A FRAME FOR A LITTLE OVER $100 BUCKS. UNFORTUNATELY, MINE AND OTHERS OLDER THAN 1980″S HAVE BEEN DESTROYED BUT THEY WILL HAVE A DESK PLACT REPLICA OF YOUR BADGE =. I HAVE ORDERED ONE BUT HAVE YET TO RECEIVE IT. CONTACT THE INTEL. CORPS AT FORT HUACHUCA FOR DETAILS. BEN BURT EX-AGENT

    Comment by ben burt — January 8, 2012 @ 11:03 pm

  583. Johnny Dolin, ref#541
    You asked for agents who may have known your father, Joseph Dolin.
    The capture of Che Guevera involved few americans. The MI Agent in charge at the capture location was warrant officer Perry “Pete” Shuford, a highly decorated and brilliant agent. Pete was fluent in both Cantonese and Mandarin Chinese, Japanese, Spanish and Portugese. He was special forces and worked through the University of the America’s in Panama. He was also an accomplished artist and retired from both the US Army and DIA in 1971 to Corpus Christi, TX. Another MI agent in this effort was Harry Levy. I had worked with both some years after the Guevera capture. Another who may have known your father was Felix Rodriguez, a special forces soldier, who later co-authored “Shadow Warrior,” and now lives in the Miami, FL area. Both Shuford and Levy were Holabird students, both worked as CI agents during the term in which your father served. Good Luck,
    Gordon Cooper, 97B40, Holabird 1968

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — January 9, 2012 @ 9:17 pm

  584. Manny Adler, ref#127
    The Holabird was 180 degrees from the current school in many ways.
    At the Bird there was a day in which they took us enmass to a clothier in Baltimore and I don’t recall wearing a uniform from then on, and at the current school I only saw uniformed students. I have no knowledge of the working agent in the field now. In the vietnam period we wore a uniform with only a US marking or non military attire. But I don’t believe the agent in 97B40 today gets the training to work in CONUS assignments. They seemed to only be knowledgeable in overseas combat environments, which is there task. My main concern in the modern military is limited spectrum of eligible members. It seemed to me not to have many “Ivy Leaguers” within the ranks. You don’t see many weekend trips by the students to the New Jersey beaches as when I was at the Bird. Any by the way Manny, when and where do us old agents meet every two months in Orange County, CA ? God Bless, Gordon Cooper, 97B40, Holabird 1968

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — January 9, 2012 @ 9:37 pm

  585. Bill Randall, ref #444
    Did you ever meet Perry “Pete” Shuford. Pete retired in 1971 from both the US Army and DIA. I was surprised at your view that there were few blacks in MI. I met some that were in the Area Studies Program at the Bird. One was from Rutgers University. I worked with a Capt. Phillips between his two tours in Nam and with Shuford between his two tours in Nam. Pete used to have a saying, “I didn’t know I was black.” I was mentored by Pete. He was the best field agent I ever knew. Of course God puts us in so many lucky places and times that we may not see everything and everyone, but I felt I have been very lucky. Ft. Gullick in Panama or Alice Springs, Australia to name a couple. Did you ever get to sit in the “Spirit of St. Louis” plane? What a trip! Did you ever get to shake a hand of the President of the United States of America or that of a five star General. I’ve been one lucky citizen. But Pete Schuford was the best. Black or other. Good Luck, Gordon Cooper, 97B40 Holabird 1968

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — January 9, 2012 @ 9:54 pm

  586. I want to add on a bit to my previous letter. Like most of you I do remember the actors in the fish-bowl. Very entertaining. alsso the law instructor.Very boring!! Warm mornings and a monotone voice! Someone mentioned about failed students. Well,my class 64B2A had two-thirds fail! Heard later that it was referred to as “The Infamous 64B2A Class”!! One thing that happened at the Bird that I never understood. A buddy from Oklahoma,Jim Anderson & I put on almost new blue jeans to wear to the post theater. Well,we were denied entrance due to the jeans which are very acceptable here in Texas. Yet they let hairy-legged guys in checkered shorts into the show. Must have been some Yankee C.O.’s prejudice. Go figure. I did ride my Yamaha up & down the jeep test ramp a few times. Jim & I also rode over to Marlboro, Md. to watch the Tobacco Trail M/C road race one weekend. Stayed over night at Andrews A.F.Base. Andy was AF prior service & knew the ropes there. Ate A great supper & breakfast.
    Also while at Holabird, a buddy from Polk, Robert Durbin from Anniston,Alabama, had relatives out near Towson.He & I rode the bike to there & hunted birds of any sort while there. Later when I took the bike home. This was in late Nov.63, rode down east coast to Georgia then headed west. Stayed overnight at Durbins home, ate supper with his folks & slept in his bed!
    the 526th on Okinawa: a small-staffed org. near Naha Air Base. We wore civvies on & off job. EXCEPT when the training officer,a W.O. felt that we lower peons needed to be reminded that we were still in the Army & we had to put on fatigues & do misc. jobs around the building,like paint or scrub outside walls,etc. One day you might be talking to a Special Forces Colonel about some soldier & next day painting a walk railing! GO FIGURE! We also had a pretty good fast-pitch softball team & played against other Army units such as the 999 Signal Corps,the Transportation Co., & aboutfive other teams. Our C.O., Col.Finnegan was very supportive & brought his family(many kids) to every game. Once when I was playing 1st Base I was having trouble seeing balls thrown from third due to the sun setting right above there. Finnegan said”Hey, our man on 1st cant see the ball! Someone give him my sunglasses!” So I finished the game(or until the sun went down) wearing the bosses glasses! Walking along the shops(Black Market Alley) built above the Big Benjo Ditch was always fun. Okinawa was the only place I generally carried an small umbrella because a rain storm could come over at any time. Strangest thing about the locals was they wore light colored clothes in daytime then put on darker ones at night. Then some would be walking along streets or esp. Hwy #1 close to the driving lane. You didn’t see a person until you were right beside him! Good thing max speed limit was 30mph! All in all, Oki was a good tour & certainly beat the other duty tour spot a little farther South! BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — January 10, 2012 @ 2:54 am

  587. re post 581 i worked with your dad. i am post # 245 on this page and 284 and 285 i mentioned your dad on 284 i think he was an e6 when i arrived 1964 and promoted to cwo shortly thereafter. in his classes he wore civvies a lot and went by mr peterson even as nco so the transition to mr peterson as cwo was an easy transition. i was asst instructor and classified document custodion 64-67 when i ets out. we were in department of area studies. your dad was a gentleman. we worked together occasionally on training and since i brought donuts and made coffee every morning and keep them outside the classified document vault where i hung out most of the time i wasnt on training. everybody paid a dime a cup and that gave enough money for coffee and fixings i purchased at the px plus donuts every morning for the entire dept. he used to come in and say he was going to cut off a piece of coffee because i made it strong. sorry to here of your loss i saw on your post # 581. frank stella

    Comment by frank stella — January 10, 2012 @ 6:13 pm

  588. Jim: I just re-read some of the comments & really enjoyed doing so. If any one that might remember me I would like for you to publish my e-mail address: ben.pat@sbcglobal.net. Thanks alot for the web-site. May it go on forever. I’m 72 and have been using computers for only acouple of years; still learning! BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — January 10, 2012 @ 11:04 pm

  589. RE Post #275: My father, William (Bill) Luehrs, went through training at Ft. Holabird in 1967. My dad passed away last year. Mr. Mahinske, I would be interested in any documents that you have regarding my Dad’s time at Holabird. If anyone served with my Dad, I would definitely be interested in hearing your memories of my Dad. Thanks. Jason

    Comment by Jason Luehrs — January 15, 2012 @ 11:08 pm

  590. Ref: 579 & 580

    Donna,

    I ETS from the 108th MI Gp in August, 1970 (I got an education early out). I must have just missed you. I left behind a lot of friends. Do you remember Bob Runes, Mike Baron, Bob Finchell? An unorthodox group if ever there was one. Mr roommate an I left service the same day. His name was Bobby Hickson. A really great guy, but as different from me as night and day. We had all been moved out of Holabird to Stateside sites because there was a great need. We never got to go back to school, getting our MOS with holy water and a blessing. I remember the guy who could open the locks; but not his name. I believe he was an agent who used to do all of the security checks on the secure contractor sites in the NE of US. He had some great stories. They used an old Ma Bell telephone truck. It really looked like the panel vans that you saw on your hometown street. They used to sleep in it when they were conducting long term surveylance. Looked mighy uncomfortable. You are right: he could open anything, even things that weren’t supposed to be openable. He really enjoyed the challenge.

    Have a healthy New Year,

    Dave Edmonds

    Comment by David Edmonds — January 16, 2012 @ 11:00 pm

  591. I grew up in Baltimore MD and in 1953-1955 I was employed as a civilian secretary for CIC School, R&D dept, where we typed textbooks, etc., for the school to use for students’ training, and 1955-57 continued employment as civilian secretary in Munich Germany at the 7915 USAR Field Office, also known as 66th CIC Group USAR. I met wonderful CIC civilians and military, still in contact with many.

    Comment by rita schaub — January 17, 2012 @ 10:13 am

  592. Jason Luehrs Post #589: I found three documents relating to your Father’s training at Fort Holabird. I have duplicates of two and can copy the 3rd for you. I would like to mail these to you. Your Father was assigned to the 902nd in Washington, D.C. after training. He was in my 97B40 Class. I remember the last name, but that is about all. Send your mailing address to me at ffmron@bellsouth.net I will get them in the mail ASAP. I am sorry to hear of your Dad’s passing.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — January 18, 2012 @ 2:17 pm

  593. I haven’t looked at every comment, but am curious to know if any of you were at the bird in early 1961. Most of our group were from Leonard Wood or other 5th army areas.

    Comment by Bob Quaglia — February 4, 2012 @ 11:01 am

  594. I went through Holabird from July to October 1961 for the 97B course (CI Special Agent). Posted to 66th Mi Group HQ in Stuttgart after that. Went back from September 1967 to December 1969 as an instructor in the CI Dept — taught CI investigative techniques. Followed that with the MIOAC course before deploying to Vietnam. Anyone there at those times.

    Comment by Howell Sasser — February 5, 2012 @ 4:54 pm

  595. I was at the Bird 1951-1952. Assigned to 115th CIC headquarters, Presidio of San Francisco. Great stories from all you guys.

    Comment by david w obrien — February 6, 2012 @ 1:26 am

  596. Howell, I was gone to Chicago by then Stationed at the 113th at 5th Army HQ. We did a LOGEX at Fort Lee, before i left fot the 113th but gone well befor July.

    Comment by Bob Quaglia — February 6, 2012 @ 12:06 pm

  597. Howell, I was there at that time. I graduated the 97B course in November 68 and was assigned to the FTX committee until May 1970. Our building was in the far SW corner of the post across from the bowling alley. We tried very hard to stay out of building 320. Our boss, LTC Koyama allowed us a “relaxed” dress code; today it would be known as business casual. If we had a class in the building, we were constantly changing clothes to fit our scripted roles. We had an enormous wardrobe to select from. During the tactical phase we put on makeup as well to appear Vietnamese. Going to 320 meant wearing a jacket and tie. We tried to keep that to the Friday foot surveillance exercise downtown.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — February 7, 2012 @ 12:18 am

  598. Are any of my fellow agents still around. In 1952 we lived at the old States Hotel at Kearny and California Streets in San Francisco, while working out of the 115th CIC detachment at the Presidio, under the command of Col deReimer. Then later, some of us agents moved into a boarding house on Taylor Street. Then in 1953 five of us agents rented a house out on Irving Street at 19th Avenue. My fellow agent was Edward Wyatt who was honorably discharged in 1954 and returned, i believe, to North Carolina. I recall that General Gallagher was, at that time, the Commanding General at Fort Holabird. The Senator McCarthy scare was causing a lot of grief for the CIC leadership.

    Comment by david w obrien — February 7, 2012 @ 12:49 am

  599. Got to the “bird” in August 67. From there to B company, 502nd outside of Seoul. In ’69 came back to Holabird to finish. Hung out with a couple of Lieuts from Michigan–they lived on a barge in Baltimore harbor, before it was renovated. Had a great time. Mack Grammer was my room mate. We lived at the El Rino apartments right across from the main gate. It was a dump, but at least we were off base. And everyone is correct: not many people know of Holabird. Great memories, great friends. Stay well…..John

    Comment by John Climie — February 8, 2012 @ 7:04 am

  600. Ref:Comment #23..Does anyone know if the USAINTS-Intel Command logo, embedded in granite exists as part of one of the Holabird Business-Industrial Park Buildings,as a tribute,as mentioned in comment #23. Trying to find which building and if it still exsists.
    If you have Fort Holabird photos please post on the Facebook page for Fort Holabird Alumni.

    Comment by RF — February 9, 2012 @ 8:37 am

  601. Does anyone remember Sgt. Major Joseph Lorusso.late 1960’s to 1970. Not sure what he did.He wasn’t a young soldier then. Iam guessing he was some kind of teacher??probably around the age of 40.

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — February 12, 2012 @ 9:53 pm

  602. Re=post #601… My father was USAINTC command Sergeant Major Joseph T.Lorusso..anyone remember him??

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — February 12, 2012 @ 10:29 pm

  603. John C. Well, the ElRino apartments sure bring back memories. I lived there from 69-70 after returning from the 525 MI Group in Saigon. Shared an apartment on the second floor with a guy from LA. Typical Friday night after work included stopping at Snyder’s Liquor store for a bottle of wine and then heading over to the Holabird Inn for a couple drinks and then up the street to Squires to order a pizza to go–and of course a couple more drinks. I didn’t find the apartments too bad, but the owners who lived acrosse the street were real nosy and basically had no respect for the military. Anybody remember the Keystone just up Holabird Avenue? They had a music club in the back with a lot of the local ladies hanging out.

    Comment by David Morin — February 13, 2012 @ 9:28 pm

  604. Post #209: My little sister posted that entry and made several mistakes. Our father SGM Joseph T. Lorusso was assigned to HaHa in 1968 after returning from Vietnam (2/16th Inf). He retired in August 1970. While assigned there we became friends with SGM James McCann and family and I remember some other names; LTC or COL Hall- had a daughter named Judy; Fields family had a son who was a bagger at the commisary, the Vindovich family. Our father passed away in 1987 and he really never talked about his 22 years in the Army, not even with me after I joined the Army in 1982. I didn’t stay 22 years, had enough after 21 years and finished as a CW3. I have enjoyed all the stories of HaHa and I still stop to eat at Squires when passing by Baltimore.

    Comment by John Lorusso — February 14, 2012 @ 6:51 pm

  605. David Morin (#603),

    Re: the Keystone. Was there back in mid 50’s and had strippers in the basement as I recall, kind of East Baltimore near the base. Went there once or twice. Permanent party rearely hung out there. Usualyy took off on weekends beyaond the 50 mile limit allowed on our class A passes (bad boys and girls).

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 16, 2012 @ 4:22 pm

  606. Just re-read #605. Egads the typos.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 16, 2012 @ 4:24 pm

  607. RE;; THE COMMENTS ABOUT CORPORAL RANK BEING CHANGED TO SPEC. 4. I ALSO WAS CAUGHT UP IN THIS CHANGEOVER IN 1964 0OR 65 WHILE WITH THE 526th INTEL. DETACH. ON OKINAWA. BUT BECAUSE I WAS TEMPORARILY PUT IN CHARGE OF THE FILE-ROOM AND “SUPERVISING” AFEW PVTS & PFC CLERK-TYPISTS WAS CHANGED BACK TO RANK OF CORPORAL. HAD TO DO WITH SPEC’S NOT BEING IN A POSITION OF COMMAND OR AUTHORITY. AT LEAST THAT WAS WHAT I WAS TOLD, BEST I REMEMBER. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — February 16, 2012 @ 11:19 pm

  608. I arrived at the “Bird” in Nov ’65 after Ft Dix basic, and after graduating from the 97B course was assigned to Orlando, Fla field office where we did security clearances for space industry/Cape Canaveral. Some Ft Holabird memories: There was an old ammo dump on or near the fort property that was setup to replicate a VC village complete with underground tunnels. My day included being captured and later taking part in interrogations. The “fish bowl” where local civilian actors were “interviewed” or interrogated. Trying to avoid being “recruited” for weekend kp duty by permanent party staff -falling asleep on Saturday morning in the day room was the quickest way to “volunteering” for kp projects! It was best to leave the fort on weekends for downtown Baltimore or a bus trip to DC.

    Comment by john tarantino — February 17, 2012 @ 11:06 am

  609. Is there anyone else that can give me any additional information about the B & C retirement program that Ben Burt spoke of in comment # 582? I served as a special agent with the 113th MI group, Region 5, Wausau R.O. from 1969 to 1971. I am 67 now and would really like to get the framed B&C’s that Ben mentioned. Am building a display pertaining to my military days and feel that this would make a great addition to layout.

    Thanks

    Comment by Robert B St.Amour — February 18, 2012 @ 8:21 pm

  610. ENTRY#609 ROBRT, ST AAMOUR. RE; B&C RET, PROGRAM. CONTACT HQ USAIC IATD (B&,C) RM 1279 BLDG 51005,2520
    HEALY ST.FORT HUACHUCA,AZ. 85613-7050.. THIS IS WHERE I SENT IN TO GET MINE. HURRY. I WAS ADVISED THAT THEY PLAN TO END THIS PROGRAM IN MARCH. GOOD LUCK.

    BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — February 19, 2012 @ 12:43 am

  611. ADD ON TO 610. ROBERT. YOU SERVED TOO FAR BACK TO GET BOTH BADGE AND CREDS. CPEDS HAVE BEEN DESTROYED. BUT YOU CAN GET A REPLICA OF BADGE ON A DESK PLACT. THAT IS WHAT I HAVE ORDERED. BEN

    Comment by ben burt — February 19, 2012 @ 12:50 am

  612. I was sent to Ft Pol, La, since Ft Ord had been closed, due to Meningitis scare in 1965. After Basic, I went to Holabird. 1SGT Snyder was the 1SGT and I was in the 97B course. 1LT Hayward was the Co Cdr of students then. Well, I thought th best thing about the Bird was the Holabird Inn, across the stret from the Main Gate, where we ate lunch as often as possible. Great burgers and chips and a beer. YUM! Hated KP duty. 1LT Hayward took me to town and showed me the sights, for some reason. The CQ thought he was a gay LT but I thought otherwise. Straight arrow! Anyway, I went to Frankfurt from there to the 165th MI Co. Later to Giessen as 97B30.
    Then, on to Nam! I always will remember Holabird though as the place where we had dress parades each Friday with Carling Brewery driving in a 18 wheeler flat bed with free beer at the end of the parade. HATED the beer.
    Tasted cruddy. Anyway, we had lots of great time there and we joked about how many salutes it took to get from one place on post to another. Had no car, as I was from CA but Dundalk was a “real trip” Went to Baltimore a few
    times and that was also another real trip. Yikes! The
    instructors in the 97B course were characters. We had to get thru interview type classes and they would try to make it difficult for us. The main bldg at Holabird was like a fortress or a prison, do not know which. Open
    Bay billets. Lockers all in a row in the center of aisle.
    1SGT Snyder would ALWAYS have GI Parties on the weekend.
    YUK! Tried to get out of them but to no avail. Hated those Khaki uniforms all starched. As soon as you put on the pants and walked to the Mess hall, they would look like you had slept in them. IMPOSSIBLE! Marble steps of “Balmur” was the ONLY place in the USA that got
    me so turned around mentally, I thought I was lost! Lots of fun though in Dundalk and Bldg 136 (Main Bldg) at the Bird

    Comment by Lawrence Lynch — March 4, 2012 @ 6:34 pm

  613. I’m hoping to get my comment through, but my first attempt got erased when I was trying to return from a screen that said my email add. was invalid. So this will be a test.

    Comment by Bob Millen — March 4, 2012 @ 7:09 pm

  614. Good I’m in. So delighted to discover this website and amazed it has gone on so long. I was searching for info on Holabird and was not aware of it’s demise and that it was so long ago. I was in a 97C five month class starting around Nov 1, 67 and ending Mar 68. I was 23, just out of basic at Ft. Ord. A Calif. boy with little prior time on the east coast. I must have been spared the Colgate Creek stench because it was winter, but remember well the yeast smell and that of coal burning. Most of the class lived in a bay in the big brick bldg. Close to the rec room with its one TV. I, too, welcomed the casualness. I can’t even recall any parades and no KP at all. Frequented the Holabird Inn – great subs and fun. One classmate, SSGT Mulrony, had been in the service quite a while, but he related well with us younger fellows. He had the job of getting us all into some semblance of a formation each morning and walking us over to the classes. Can’t recall a swinging bridge, but do remember how cold the mornings were and how warm the classrooms. Seemed like 5 or 6 guys fell asleep through most classes. Had some great instructors, but I’m unable to remember any names. Classmates included Fred Cohen, Lloyd Lavagetto, George Fraser, Frank Novak, Bill Nash. Can picture others, but can’t come up with names. Think there was a class photo, but I’ve lost it. 12 of us got orders to Vietnam with 5th Special Forces (Green Berets.) I think all of us were sweating out that assignment. Fred, Lloyd, George and a few others from class went through a couple wks. of in-country training which included a pretty miserable 3 days in the jungle. I had to carry a Claymore mine and hadn’t a clue how to use it. My recruiter hadn’t described MI this way. I ended up in Pleiku at the B team for II Corps. and they quickly stuck me in the classified doc. custodian job because no one with a T.S.clearance had come thru there in a while. After two months I finally convinced the MI Officer that I could be better used. On to Qui Nhon where I spent the remaining 10mos. at B-22 Detachment located right on a beautiful bay. From there I flew out to A camps and attempted to maintain an agent collection operation which frankly was a joke most of the time. Served with some great guys despite my “leg” status (non-airborne) and lack of the beret. I can honestly say that nothing we were taught in Holabird class applied to Vietnam. At the end of my tour the Sgt. Maj. awarded me a green beret, and even though it didn’t fit and I was not permitted to wear it, it meant a great deal. That I still have. I think we all returned OK from Nam. Most of us ended up at Ft. Bragg at a very useless MI BN. I was so disgusted with our daily tasks there that I wrote my congressman who made a formal inquiry from the Commandant on down. I was called in for interrogation with our CO- a 1Lt who was younger than I and soon I was instructing at an NCO Academy they created suddenly. Later was assigned to another MI unit at Bragg where we spent the day devoted to detailing info about the Cuban military. I’m sure I’ve said far more than I was supposed to but I notice others have done the same. After all it has been 45 yrs.
    Some final recollections of Holabird: Mrs. Klicka and the typing class (I can still type pretty well), case officer/informant simulations on the streets of Dundalk, the rubber dingy invasion exercize from a boat on the Chesepeke to the make-believe enemy encampment on shore, and the time we all were supplied airline tickets to various cities to try to outwit the CI guys. I went to El Paso, and think I was doing pretty well during an interrogation at the police facilities when they had me strip and discovered a laundry mark on a shirt with my true initials. I hope someone from my class remembers me and shoots off an email. I once ran into Lloyd Lavagetto in Oakland during the 70’s and Fred Cohen visited San Diego about 6 years ago and we had dinner together with our wives. All the best to everyone. Keep this going. Bob

    Comment by Bob Millen — March 4, 2012 @ 8:16 pm

  615. I and 38 other freshly minted 2d lieutenants were members of Training Group B-270, dubbed by Major General Boniface Campbell as “The Golden Horde.” We were given that title because we were unique to “The Bird” — the products of ROTC programs at our respective colleges and universities who were ordered to report directly to Fort Holabird without first going to combat arms schools, eg., the Infantry School at Fort Benning. General Campbell wore several hats, post commander, commandant of the Army Intelligence School, and chief of the Counter Intelligence Corps. He and Mrs Campbell took a special interest in our group because of its unique character. At General Campbell’s insistence, all military personnel on post were required to march in a parade every Friday afternoon. Each company was larger than normal because there were as many as four or even five ranks of officers in it. The parade was led by the “renowned” Fort Holabird drum and bugle corps. At the conclusion of the parade, the officers repaired en masse to the officers club for happy hour. Our training as counterintelligence officers lasted from July to November. It included a highly improvised, one-week platoon leaders course at Fort Meade, the highlight of which was seizure of a “hill” on the golf course. At the conclusion of our CI officers training, most of the Golden Horde received assignments to CIC field offices throughout the United States. The rest of us remained at Fort Holabird for language training — German for those assigned to EUCOM and Japanese for those assigned to AFFE/Eighth Army in Japan. The German language course was six months in duration. The eight-week Japanese language course, which I took, consisted of intensive drilling in spoken Japanese eight hours a day, five days a week. Nine of us took Japanese and I was class valedictorian, the only time in my life that I was a valedictorian. After my language training, I reported to headquarters, 441st CIC Detachment in Tokyo, where I served as assistant S3 (plans and operations) for almost six months. I was then reassigned to headquarters, 308th CIC Detachment, in Seoul Korea. My first assignment was pay officer for the 308th. This entailed paying our American personnel in military skrip and Korean personnel in hwon, not only at our headquarters, but at our far flung field offices and resident agencies throughout South Korea. I traveled to those offices and agencies mostly by L-19 aircraft and on a couple occasions by jeep, so I managed to see most of the country in all of its rugged beauty. Accomplishing this task took almost four weeks. After that assignment, I was chief of the research section of the counter subversive branch for the remainder of my tour of duty in Korea. In early July 1956, I left Korea for Oakland Army Terminal in California where I was separated from the service and returned to civilian life. In October 1999, 23 members of the Golden Horde gathered in Bethesda, Maryland, a suburb of our Nation’s capital, for a three-day reunion. Dan Goggin of Neenah, Wisconsin, who conceived the idea of a reunion, and I managed to track down every member of the Horde, including some who were deceased, by using well honed investigative skills which we acquired at the Bird. I organized the reunion program which included sessions on Project Venona, which broke the codes of the Soviet GRU (military intelligence) and KGB in World War II, and on the future of intelligence. We also toured the National Cryptologic Museum at Fort Meade and had a banquet at the Fort Myer officers club in nearby Arlington, Virginia. We regaled ourselves with many tales about our time at the Bird as well as our subsequent assignments. Those were the days!

    Comment by Dick Murphy — March 6, 2012 @ 3:19 pm

  616. God I LOVE this site. I can smell Colgate Creek and taste the Harley Burgers. As I sip my Bud, I can see the bottles of Old Mr Boston booze on the shelf behind the bar at the Holabird Inn.

    Thanks for the memories.

    Comment by bill — March 7, 2012 @ 12:32 am

  617. I forgot to say what year we were trained at Fort Holabird. It was 1954.

    Comment by Dick Murphy — March 7, 2012 @ 9:42 am

  618. GLAD TO SEE MORE EX-HOLABIRD DISCOVERING THIS GREAT SITE.WISH SOME FROM MY CLASS,JUNE 1963 TO DEC. 63, 64B2A, COULD FIND IT. JIM, KEEP IT GOING!! BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — March 11, 2012 @ 10:06 pm

  619. I was at Holabird in early 1954 and then posted to the 470th Detachment in Panama. It was a good tour of duty and I learned a lot. It provided the incentive for writing my recently published novel “Hot Times in Panamá” and starting a blog: http://frankebabb.blogspot.com.

    Comment by Frank Babb — March 14, 2012 @ 8:35 pm

  620. Frank, Do you remember agents Pete Schuford or Harry Levy during your days in Panama. I worked with those two later in the late ’60s.
    Gordon Cooper, coopgl@cox.net

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — March 14, 2012 @ 11:08 pm

  621. Gordon, I don’t remember them. My section spent a lot of time in Panamá, and we stayed away from the office as much as possible, usually checking in at 7:30 AM and checking out for Panamá at 7:31 AM.

    Frank

    Comment by Frank Babb — March 16, 2012 @ 1:16 pm

  622. Not many guys left from 1957 & 1958. We had a group that went to Stuttgart, Germany. Schiefelbein and Durhman are still alive and living in the mid-west.

    Comment by Ken Berg — March 17, 2012 @ 3:28 pm

  623. WOW, after all these years, I stumbled on your site. What a flood of memories it has brought
    I did basic at Ft or, Ca, Nov 65 through Jan 66. Arrived at Holabird in Mar. for 5-6 weeks casual duty, primarily working at the NACC (if you were there then, you know what that was. Graduated 66-C-7C around May, and stayed at the ‘bird until ETS in Aug 68 (got out 100 days early to go enter college in CA). Worked with Bosnich and Griffith (above) within the USAIRR building. Griffith and I worked on briefing materials for GEN Blakefield. After service, got BA in Architecture at UC Berkeley on GI Bill. Retired in 2002 after many years in engineering and construction management. Now living life of leisure in Arizona, with main hobby of restoring 1926 Ford Model Coupe. It is coming along well.
    I would love to hear from alumni:

    PS, I know the origin of the original sphinx in front of the HQ Building whose breasts were cupped by so many of us back then! She was natural-born French!!!

    Comment by Forrest V. Kahle — March 20, 2012 @ 3:28 am

  624. And does anyone remember the great Al Strappeli (who played various roles for student training)

    Comment by Andrews Campbell — March 24, 2012 @ 1:59 pm

  625. I remember Al very well. I served on the FTX Committee from 1966 – 1968 with him. (Also with Dennis Cook, Tom Gruhalla,Lee Carter, Jimmy Hyatt and many others) Also saw him in the very long running play “The Drunkard” downtown. His was a character; very talented and funny.

    Comment by Don Clifton — March 28, 2012 @ 2:50 pm

  626. I was there from late spring of 1963 and was sent to 902nd at the Pentagon. Got out in December of 65.

    Comment by Robert Hurley — March 31, 2012 @ 11:19 pm

  627. Stumbled onto this sight..what enjoyable read.I was at Holabird from 1/68- 10/70 assigned to Ops..97D..what a great experience with great people Art Keener,Bill Murphy,John Beemer,Dale Brown,Bill Horton,Tom Djelowski,Mike Sweeny,Dawn Reinhardt,George Cvetan,Sweetpea,Pat Pulaski,Pat Urban,Tom Cona,Larry Howard,Sgt Pellern,Sgt Severn,Great folks who I hope are all well today..thanks for the memories..

    Comment by tom wiand — April 1, 2012 @ 9:32 pm

  628. DID ANY OF YOU SERVE IN GERMANY IN LATE 60’S KNOW A JAMEs(JIM) ANDERSON FROM OKLAHOMA? HE MADE W.O. SOMETIME DURNG HIS TOUR. JIM & i were in same platoon at FT< POLK in Spring 1963, then we both went through 97b course at the BIRD from July through Nov. 63. He went to germany, I to Okinawa. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — April 4, 2012 @ 9:00 pm

  629. I was at Ft Holabird in the summer and fall of 1968,
    trained as an interrogator (linguist-German) then sent
    to Germany, first 8th MID in Bad Kreuznach, then to
    the Fulda Border Residence Office (Fulda BRO), and
    finally was assigned to the Soviet Orientation Team
    with duty station Stuttgart Military Intelligence
    Detachment of the 66th MI Group. I went to jump school
    at the 8th Div jump school in Mainz/Wiesbaden since
    I was technically assigned to the 8th INf Div (abn)
    when I was at the Fulda BRO. Civilian clothing status
    while in Fulda.

    Comment by keith hawkinson — April 5, 2012 @ 4:58 pm

  630. I was in Ft. Holabird in 1966 to 1967
    Does anyone remember people who worked in the dispensary. Anyone have any pics of the post.
    I worked the Wac Detachment and later went to type orders. Would Like a photo of the post.
    So many years and so many memories. I tried working at the Harley Burger place only two weekends, it was a busy place. Please respond …Thank you

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio (Partala) — April 6, 2012 @ 12:06 pm

  631. added from comment 630…there was also an MP named Bill; was I believe from New Mexico. What a awesome guy he was !!! like a brother…

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio (Partala) — April 6, 2012 @ 1:01 pm

  632. Does the name Horst Borkmeuller (sp) ring a bell? How about rowing a black 8-man raft on the Chesapeake Bay in the total darkness to meet the friendly fisherman and then spending several hours trying to cross a border of choice to get back to the friendly fisherman without getting caught? Jumping in and out of a very small black plane capable of landing on a very dark field? Only the “spooks” got to have that much fun at night.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — April 6, 2012 @ 1:19 pm

  633. Addition to comment 629. There was a SFC Liparato
    who was the mess sergeant at Holabird while I was there
    in 1968. Some of the guys in my interrogation class were
    George Grimmet, Mark Welch, John Vernon, Chuck Patele,
    Perkins (last name0, and about 12 Marines all of whom
    were NCO’s. At my duty station at the Fulda Border Resident Office in 68-69 the SAIC was Mullins (last name),
    and the others there I remember were Jan Neyman, Mark Borden, Steve Kish, Premsyl Filip, and Karl Poehm. Premsyl had the distinction of serving in Vietnam with
    two armiies – the French Foreign Legion and the US Army.
    Our headquarters was Bad Hersfeld, the OIC was a Lt.
    Bodnar who we affectionately called donut. There was
    a John Hemmersmeier I remember at Bad Hersfeld. We also
    had people at Kassel.

    Comment by keith hawkinson — April 6, 2012 @ 1:42 pm

  634. RE: Post 30, there are photos on Facebook at this site:

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/288623728874/

    There is a video on YouTube. Just type in Fort Holabird in the search box.

    Comment by bill — April 6, 2012 @ 10:53 pm

  635. response to 630. I was in a transient barracks
    awaiting assignment to a class before I was assigned
    a bed in the big brick dormitory when my interrogation
    class began. The transient barracks was next door to the WAC barracks where I saw the WACS in formation undergoing
    inspection outside in the mornings. The barracks on the other
    side of my transient barracks was occupied by a National
    Guard or reserve unit from upstate New York. One of them had a
    beautiful 68 camaro or firebird.

    Comment by keith hawkinson — April 13, 2012 @ 8:12 am

  636. I think we were the first transient/casual folks to open that particular barracks in September 1967 waiting for classes to start . No curtains, poor WACS.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 24, 2012 @ 5:47 pm

  637. Re:591 Rita Schaub. I remember you from Munich. You and several other girls whose names I forget. One gal was a former WAVE. Sallie Brittle was Lt Col Himmelwright’s sect. My e-mail is ed-gail@juno.com Drop me a line and I will give you Dave Good and Bob Flynn’s email address.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — April 25, 2012 @ 5:34 pm

  638. An amazing site—all the fun reminiscences.

    I am reading the notes and responding because a friend told me a little about her experiences at Ft. Holabird. Although some of her memories match (e.g., the suspension bridge over the foul Colgate Creek), most are entirely unlike any written about above.

    She was there during the summer/fall 1962 and again in 1965 or 1966 when she was about 2 and 5 years old. It seems that she was being used in various psychological experiments with LSD and other tests (none of them fun). She must surely have been seen since she spent some time outside in addition to barrack room, testing rooms, and the infirmary.

    Does anyone remember seeing such a child there or know anything that would relate to such memories?

    Comment by Alicia Leaf — April 26, 2012 @ 1:26 am

  639. NOTICED VERY FEW,IF ANY, MENTIONED VISITING EAST BALTIMORE STREET FOR ENTERTAINMENT. WHY IS THAT? BY THE WAY I RECENTLY RECEIVED MY “RETIRED’ FRAMED BADGE I ORDERED FROM AINTCS IN FORT HUACHUCA. VERY NICE. HAS YEARS OF SERVICE IN CIC PRINTED PLUS ‘SPECIAL AGENT’ ABOVE NAME. WELL WORTH THE PRICE. I ACCIDENTLY RECENTLY GOT A ‘MEDALS OF AMERICA’ CATALOGUE IN MAIL. HAS A FEW PATCHES, DOODADS RE; INTEL CORPS. IN IT. THERE IS A WEB-SITE ALSO IF ANY ARE INTERESTED. BEN BURT,CLASS OF NOV.63.

    Comment by ben burt — April 30, 2012 @ 10:54 pm

  640. My father, Thomas O Schlesinger, was an instructor (CPT, US Army) at Ft Holabird, 1957-1960. He was born in Berlin, Germany and came to the US in 1940. World War II svc incl Battle of the Bulge and Remagen Bridge; he was a “Ritchie Boy” assigned to the Counter Intelligence Corps. Following svc in the Korean War, he participated in Upshot Knothole atomic test (1953). Assignments included interpreter to Lt. General Wm Arnold, U.S. Forces Austria; Southern European Forces (SETAF) Italy; Germany; Ft. Holabird, Md., and Green Beret instructor, John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center, Ft. Bragg, N.C. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/concordmonitor/obituary.aspx?n=thomas-o-schlesinger&pid=155910319

    Comment by Annie Brock — April 30, 2012 @ 11:15 pm

  641. Ben (#639),

    Few permanent party visited the then “infamous” East Baltimore Street. Never went there.

    Annie (#640),

    Was your dad in the Ritchie Boys” documentary? He served in the hayday of the CIC. Did not know him as I let in October of ’57 and was a lowly Sp-4. I suspect he had some interesting WWII stories. Post WWII Austria was a real active CIC area.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — May 1, 2012 @ 9:39 am

  642. Manny glad to see you”re still out there

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — May 1, 2012 @ 8:37 pm

  643. ben burt: Reference your post on the infamous Baltimore Block district, I arrived at Holabird in 1967 and the very first night there hopped a taxi down to the block, still in my uniform. Ended up buying one of the dancers at the Club Troc a champagne split and she assured me we would be meeting after the club closed for more fun. Never happened.

    Comment by David Morin — May 2, 2012 @ 8:27 pm

  644. DAVID MORIN; I ONLY VISITED THE BLOCK ONCE WITH A FEW OTHER GUYS MAINLY OUT OF COURIOSITY. BEING A KID FROM TEXAS HAD NOT BEEN EXPOSED TO THE BIG CITY NITE LIFE. SAW ALL I NEEDED IN ONE SHOT. BEN

    Comment by ben burt — May 3, 2012 @ 11:02 pm

  645. My experience with the block was like most others. one time and that was it. i remember a cold december sunday morning. a buddy and i had hopped a bus for a visit. wwe were still in class “a”s that day. we were a couple of country bumpkins sure enough. we were walking around looking it over and spotted a young woman sitting in the window sill on the second floor of one of the buildings. best i remember it was a “theater”. she was wearing next to nothing as i remeber and that was see through. scared me to death. i had never seen or heard anything like that. offered to give us both something we had never had before. first thing that came to mind was “the plague”. boy did we turn tail and hotfoot it out of there. we all but ran back up to the bus pickup point and back to the “bird” only to return during the training as part of the fox and hound training. was much more comfortable that time, but was an interesting story for that as well. will tell that later. great to hear all these tales. as previously i went from the bird to the language school in monterey california, then to korea to the 502nd MI Bn. I was in Baltimore when the Beetles came to the US and onel of my buddines took the train to NY to see them. seems like they were there on a sat or sun, don”t remember which. best i recall that was in the spring of 1964,but before May 1964. I left in late April 1964 for Monterey and spent a year there. hope to hear from some of you folks. j. bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — May 4, 2012 @ 4:37 pm

  646. What a great site. Such wit and smarts.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 6, 2012 @ 9:31 am

  647. My initial visit to the “block” was not a plesant one -when we discovered the downtown Baltimore clubs were still segregated in 1965. Hard to believe but true!

    Comment by john tarantino — May 17, 2012 @ 1:47 pm

  648. A question maybe someone knows about. i was a 96B (analyst) and after I returned from Vietnam I was offered a Warrant Officer comission. Has anyone heard of this and what would have been involved. OCS type school Etc. Thanks, Bill Adv Tm 51

    Comment by Bill Ballou — May 19, 2012 @ 7:15 pm

  649. I was in the agent’s course July-October 1962 at the Bird. My class was the Honor Guard. Other than looking sharp for the Friday afternoon parade, we had no duties such as KP. We appeared as the Honor Guard when the Golden Sphinx was dedicated on a hot morning in August. All of us passed Miss Klecka’s (sp?) typing class. She slowed me down from 70 wpm with errors to 40 wpm error-free. She threatened to “retain” our group leader, Sgt Mulkey because he used one finger per hand to type – — the typical newsroom method.
    I went to Columbia SC (Ft Jackson) for five months (two months spent in South Florida (Homestead AFB and Miami F.O.) I spent three years in East Tenn in the Smokie Mountains visiting credit bureaus, courthouses, UT, etc.

    Comment by John Robins — May 20, 2012 @ 12:38 pm

  650. i suspect that situatiion was not that unusual given the investment made in many of us. as i was preparing to muster out in 1963, i too was offered a warrent officer appointment, upon the condition that i reup 6 years. i was also promised any assigbnment i wanted, go to additional schools, dame, dase and pollygraph, ocs amoung others. i opted to muster out, return to school, college and law school. now almost 50 years later i find myself semi retired, working most days, and doing only what i enjoy doing to help people.
    given our unique talents and albility i susperct there were several of us who found ourself in the same shoes.

    Comment by James H. Bone — May 21, 2012 @ 10:52 am

  651. oops i meant to sayh 1966,

    Comment by James H. Bone — May 21, 2012 @ 10:52 am

  652. RE; ENTRIES 648 AND 650. I WAS WORKING OUT OF THE DESMOINES FIELD OFFICE LAST 9 MONTHS IN ARMY. NEAR THE END THE REGIONAL C.O., COL. DRAGALIN, IN K.C. WOULD GET ON PHONE AND GIVE A RE-UP SPIEL. HE NEVER OFFERED A CHANCE AT A W.O. COMISSION BUT I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN $8400 REUP BONUS FOR SIX YEARS AND A “ROCKER” UNDER MY SGT. STRIPES. I FINALLY TOLD HIM I WOULD IF HE WOULD PUT IN WRITING, IMMEDIATE TRANSFER TO WORK OVERSEAS, EAST OR WEST. WELL. HE SAID THAT HE NEEDED ME TO WORK IN IOWA ANOTHER 9 MONTHS, THEN WE’D ‘TALK’ ABOUT IT. I RESPECTFULLY DECLINED AND GOT OUT IN MARCH 1966. ONE THING I KNEW WAS HE WAS GOING TO RETIRE PRIOR TOTHE END OF THE 9 MONTHS AND A NEW C.O. COULD SAY,” BURT, I NEVER MADE ANY DEAL WITH YOU & I NEED YOU TO STAY IN IOWA ANOTHER YEAR OR WHATEVER”. SO THEY LOST ME PLUS ANOTHER AGENT WHO GOT OUT ABOUT SAME TIME. EVIDENTLY THE “INVESTMENT’ OF TIME, TRAINING, AND EXPERIENCE DIDN’T WEIGH MUCH AS A FACTOR IN COL. DRAGALIN’S THINKING. BEN BURT EX=AGENT

    Comment by ben burt — May 21, 2012 @ 8:26 pm

  653. I had five minutes to decide to extend my enlistment and go to Language School for Hungarian or go to the Columbia SC Field Office at Ft. Jackson. The Good Lord above guided me to Columbia. Seven months later the first civilian I met offpost on the afternoon I reported to Columbia (and was put on a four-hour alert to go to Homestead AFB, Florida) and I were married. We will celebrate 49 years in June! I eventually extended three times as the bureaucrats searched for the paperwork for my commission. By the time my orders came through for my commission, I had decided to return to civilian life. Rejected the commission and assignment in Korea and really ticked off my superiors. Was then offered E-7 and $9,000 bonus to re-up for six years. No, I wanted out. Was then offered a temporary GS-7 job to stay in Knoxville as a civilian. Probably should have taken that position. I was concerned about going from being the unofficial SAIC of Knoxville to being the low man on the totem pole – working for an E-7 who was probably conducting curbstone interviews etc. He was retired by the Corps shortly after my departure.

    Comment by John Robins — May 22, 2012 @ 9:37 am

  654. I was on USAINTC headquarters staff 1960-62 (AGC) and then reserve duty G1 for three more years. Any other old permanent party people still around?

    Comment by Phil Buley — May 22, 2012 @ 4:18 pm

  655. RE: Entry 649. I received a WO appointment coming out of Vietnam in 1971, but had completed the WO application and board process prior to deploying. In those days there was no WO school and, even if promised, a Commanding Officer could not unilaterly make a WO appointment. A Dept of Army board had final say on who was appointed. The process did not apply to helicopter pilots who were appointed upon graduation from flight school. In today’s Army all applicants must attend a fairly rigorous school before appointment.

    Comment by Ed Harris — May 22, 2012 @ 7:03 pm

  656. Hi to all. Remember our friends who are not with us any more this Holiday. I know a lot who would have liked this site.

    Dave

    Comment by David Edmonds — May 24, 2012 @ 2:29 pm

  657. Phil (#654),

    Yep. See posts.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 29, 2012 @ 3:09 pm

  658. You all are doing a super job keeping this link going with great memories. Thanks

    Comment by John Washington — May 29, 2012 @ 5:42 pm

  659. Sunday my wife and I were at our washtenaw County, MI VVA watchfire (retiring worn flags) at our local Vietnam Memorial. When I heard two men that were not guys that I recognize from our chapter talking about Ft Holibird. It stopped me in my tracks. One had been there in the late 50’s and aGAIN in 66. the other man had been there in 1962 for the Officers Basic Course. none of had met before. I must be getting old,I can’t remember the names but I told them of the web site.

    Comment by Bill Ballou — May 29, 2012 @ 6:46 pm

  660. Hi! Great site.
    I was wondering if anyone knows anything about Holabird’s involvement in New Mexico and/or MIT in the 1940’s and 50’s? My father was a civil service employee with the Signal Corps out of the radar shop. He also knew morse code and I am wondering if he learned through Holabird.
    Feel free to email me. Arrendakatherine@gmail.com
    Thanks,
    Arrenda

    Comment by Arrenda — June 11, 2012 @ 1:52 pm

  661. Can’t believe I’m just stumbling onto this site now. What great reminiscences I’ve read.

    I went through the Area Studies course from the Fall of ’67 until March ’68. We had some memorable instructors, including Col. Peacock and a fellow who once described Lavrentiy Beria attacking a subordinate by leaping across a table like a “Slavic Mary Poppins.” The long field problem was arduous but started with submarine time in Puerto Rico and ended in San Fran. Got in some great meals.

    Two years as a case officer with the 4th Bn, 525 MI Gp in the Nam, which, in hindsight, was entirely too long.

    Best to all.

    Comment by George Billock — June 13, 2012 @ 2:50 am

  662. Arrifving from upstate NY, by way of Ft. Dix, I had the same surprise in Dec 68 that others from Basic Training did- Too early for class I was told to get lost untill New Year’s. I wandered the facility and ended up meeting the then-DAME chief, CWO “Bob W.”
    I had been recruited out of the locksmith ranks to teach in DAME, but had to be an Agent first. After my CI Agent mos 97B4L29 was granted in May ’69, I was sent to Germany. It was an act of kindness by SGT Schmackels and other DAME friends who knew what I needed was a field tour, not a tour on the soapbox. I’ve stayed in touch with my 66th MI and Munich Station friends for decades and a few from ‘902nd… Mostly I’ve wondered where the Sphynx ended up and if its butt still gets painted blue from time to time. THank you for your great site and fun memories here…

    Comment by Dave K — June 13, 2012 @ 9:34 am

  663. i was at ft. holabird for the 96c course in 1969. went to jroc in berlin from there. anybody else?

    Comment by gdmbrd — June 17, 2012 @ 8:25 pm

  664. this is an excellent site – thank you for maintaining it.

    Comment by gdmbrd — June 17, 2012 @ 8:28 pm

  665. Allow me to echo the positive comments about this site. I also stumbled upon it while doing some research for a book. My mind immediately took a trip down Memory Lane. I was stationed there toward the end…1972 thru March of 1973. Being a draftee, I couldn’t have asked for a better assignment. Most of the posters to this site seem like they had some connection to USAINT. I was assigned to the Crime Records Directorate of USACIDC (CID). We only had one office just outside of the repository for the Intelligence dossiers. I am originally from Chicago, and would have gone back there after discharge, except I met a civilian woman working in the repository and ended staying in the Baltimore area…and still live in a northern suburb.
    What more could you ask for in a post? Everything was convenient. We had a fully equipped gym, athletic fields and a movie theater. If you wanted to work on your car, we had a complete motor pool. If you didn’t want to eat in the mess hall, we always had Harley’s right across the street, as well as Jimmy’s Seafood and Squires, if you wanted pizza. Did anyone mention Captain Harvey’s for the best cheese steaks around? I played on the post softball and basketball teams and intramural football. I stayed in the brick barracks just inside the main gate and had my own room.
    For those of you that have never been back, I must admit, that it was a sad day when they tore the place down. The apartments just outside the fort on Dundalk Avenue are even gone. Dundalk, however, is still Dundalk. I can remember the first time we tried to venture into Baltimore. What a mistake. You wouldn’t believe how the Inner Harbor has changed since thos days.
    I had a lot of good memories there. Thank you bringing them back to life. I can’t believe that so many of you can remember such details as building numbers and names. I still have several of the USAINTC newspapers, if anyone is interested in a copy for your scrapbook. Chopas@aol.com

    Comment by Jim Lundquist — June 20, 2012 @ 11:37 am

  666. Re 558.

    I think we were in the same 97B course. I arrived at The Bird in July 68 and off to my POD, 108th in Newark, NJ in November. ETSed in Apr 71. Hooked on with the Treasury Department in Newark and in a small office of 13, 5 had been MI agents as it was great training. In my papers I am sure I have a copy of the graduation program to look up details.

    Comment by Vince Cavallo — June 21, 2012 @ 1:02 pm

  667. I am stuck on finding people that were there in January 1967 until May 1967. There was a Wac that was a nurse in our quarter,If I remember correctly her name was Kathy, and she was tall. Also am trying to locate the males that worked in the dispensary. Often wonder where they went.

    Comment by Sieglinde (Partala) Bonfilio — June 22, 2012 @ 8:52 am

  668. #665 I Was using my name as Linda since it is shorter than my legal name.
    and was from New Jersey

    Comment by Sieglinde (Partala) Bonfilio — June 22, 2012 @ 8:54 am

  669. My comment didn’t come up

    Comment by Sieglinde (Partala) Bonfilio — June 22, 2012 @ 10:26 am

  670. Oh Sorry It did…#665,666 and 667 Hope someone can help or remember…thank you

    Comment by Sieglinde (Partala) Bonfilio — June 22, 2012 @ 10:27 am

  671. Re. 666

    I’m sorry Vince but your name doesn’t ring a bell, but there were about 50 of us. Since I was married during the class, I had a bachelor party in the NCO club. My father and father-in-law-to-be were present. Both gentlemen were drinkers of the first order, but they cut me off after something like six doubles of Seagrams VO in less than an hour. I’ve never been so drunk or so sick. Hardly remember my wedding. My wife says she was holding me up for most of the ceremony. Ah, the stupidity of youth.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — June 23, 2012 @ 1:07 pm

  672. I attended classes @ Holabird from March to Sept. in ’62. We went from there to K’ town, and then were assigned to work with the Air Force @ Toul Rosiere in France.One of the easiest and most fun jobs I ever had.
    We were trained as photo interpretators, and worked with the 19th TRS.It was the closest thing to an 8-5 job the military offered.I served with a couple of guys
    I am still in touch with over 45 yrs. later.

    Comment by Dayne Tracy — June 23, 2012 @ 2:48 pm

  673. Denis, I recall the Gunny so we must have been in the same class. Don’t recall the bachelor party but each weekend I usually made my way up to NJ after class on Friday and back late sunday evening…I hooked rides back with a fellow in an earlier class who had a Sunbeam Tiger, Booth was his name. Nice guy, went to language school I believe.

    Comment by Vince Cavallo — June 24, 2012 @ 2:47 pm

  674. DLISC Class of 9-47-68 Vietnamese, Saigon Dialect. I was sent to USAINTS May 1969…..RVN July 69 with 82d ABN Psyops, then to 191st MI DET 1st Cav. Phuoc Vinh…..then shipped out to Quan Loi where I supported any Cav unit (Interrogator).
    Remember Dick Parone and Mike Dudman from Language school.

    Comment by David Holmberg — June 27, 2012 @ 2:45 am

  675. To Howell Sasser. I was stationed at Holibird from Spring of 1960 to Fall of 1962. See comments 453 and 455

    Comment by walter r illston — June 28, 2012 @ 6:24 pm

  676. I was at the Bird in 1969 for the Interrogators course with a 96C2L29 MOS.
    Went to Ft. Meade from there for about 5 months and then to the 66th MI Group, 18th MI Battalion, with field station Berlin -to JROC (Joint Refugee Operations Center) until separation.

    If anyone who frequents this site was stationed there during the late 60’s to mid-70’s, please respond to this. Would love to make contact with anyone stationed in Berlin during that time frame.

    Gary Miller

    Comment by gdmbrd — June 29, 2012 @ 7:44 pm

  677. Re. 676

    Gary, I was assigned to Berlin in June 70 and left in June 72. Being at the ASA field station made me an agent not under the 66th MI, much to the annoyance of their commander, LTC Austin. Unfortunately, that left me and my partner, Robin Reeve out in the cold and they kept trying to scoop us up. We were only concerned with internal security of the FS and the new ops building being built on TeufelsBerg. Good stuff but kind of lonely.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — June 30, 2012 @ 12:16 am

  678. Was at Holabird from June ’67 to November ’67. 96B & C. sent to schofield Barracks Hawaii for a month before deploying to I corps with 52 MID, 11th Infantry in Dec. ’67. Just in time for Tet. Best friends at Holabird: Phil Banko, Mike Yeager, and Phil Bleaker. 52nd is organizing a reunion for Feb 2013 in Cocoa Beach Fla.

    Comment by Tony Gaye — June 30, 2012 @ 10:12 am

  679. to 453,4,5

    General Prather’s chrome jeep on Friday parades. Sounds like you were there….the ATTENTION TO ORDERS on the PA was most likely my voice in 60-62.

    Comment by Phil Buley — June 30, 2012 @ 3:26 pm

  680. served in 66th cic detach at karlsruhe germany 195152
    looking for buddy john carson (wife terry) if you see
    this send me a message your age 83 me too been looking
    for you for past 40 plus years

    Comment by charles a imhoff — July 1, 2012 @ 3:02 pm

  681. looking for john carson or carlson fellow agent
    66th cic detalch at karlsruhe germany in 1952-53 wife
    Terry have tried to reach you off and on over the years if anyone who knows you or you hopefully sees this
    please send message we were best buds

    Comment by charles a imhoff — July 1, 2012 @ 3:05 pm

  682. re. 677

    Denis – thank you for the response and nice to meet another “Island City” spook. I had some friends at Teufelsberg about the time you were there – all Russian linguist “intercepters”. Were you still in Berlin when Bob Hope came through?

    All the best,

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 3, 2012 @ 7:03 pm

  683. Re. 682

    No, Gary, I wasn’t there. Closest I got to Hope was Christmas 66 when he came through Bien Hoa in VN. I was in the hospital close by but we didn’t get to go. Martha Raye was in his troupe and she came by and gave the patients a small show. She did material that would never make the family show on TV but was just right for a bunch of soldiers.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — July 3, 2012 @ 11:55 pm

  684. (continued)

    Gary, we don’t have to bore the rest of the ‘bird men and women on Berlin stuff. You can contact me directly at dwspelman(at)hotmail(dot)com if you want to continue the conversation.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — July 3, 2012 @ 11:59 pm

  685. HAPPY 4th of July, for all that have served. And remembering All that are not with us and overseas.

    Comment by Siegline Bonfilio — July 4, 2012 @ 12:18 pm

  686. to 648 – hi Bill

    I worked with a 96c named Cattrenick in 69/70 at JROC in Berlin who got a WO appointment and went from E6 to WO in one day! He moved doen to Munich and later Augsburg to 66th MI HQ after that.

    Gary Miller

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 7, 2012 @ 5:00 am

  687. Got into Holabird December of 1969. 96D2T did rather well and was one of two of us who didn’t go to Vietnam. Found myself in Korea in I Corps G-2Air working shift work on SLAR and other stuff that had more to do with Vietnam than Korea.

    Holabird was cold and stank. The Colgate creek was so polluted it had foam on it all the time.

    We marched to classes and all attempted to lock step and collapse the footbridge over the creek. We where nuts…

    Had a couple of weeks of Casual waiting for class. Learned to cook and bake… Did a lot of wierd shit for the agents courses as well.

    Got sent down to For McNaier for BESRL over in Arlington. Sealed my fate as I was good at SLAR imagery.
    Got called out for riot control a few times.

    Schuttle back and forth to NJ as much as I could afford. I think we got $95.00 a month pay.

    Wow lotsa of stories here going to bookmark…

    Comment by Edward Cox — July 8, 2012 @ 3:58 am

  688. Ed (#687),

    Enjoyed your post. Great sense of humor even if I haave no idea what the acronyms stand for.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 10, 2012 @ 11:31 am

  689. Ed – re 687

    I left Holabird about the time you arrived. Did you ever get into Baltimore and go to either Hollywood Park or Judges? Great clubs with fantastc music and girls! Judges had a slide in it and was located pretty close to the Orioles / Colts stadium as I recall.

    Gary Miller

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 14, 2012 @ 2:12 pm

  690. Reference 632. I believe you had to ask the fisherman “How are the soft shell crabs biting” or something like that. Got caught in the wire. Did the black raft and the airplane landing in some cow pasture in the middle of the night. Good times then but I’m sure the Army does not have any Fort Holibird now.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — July 19, 2012 @ 6:25 pm

  691. SLAR Side Looking Airborne Radar

    BESRL Behaviour Engineering Science Research Lab ( I guess we were unsuspecting lab rats for the CIA or something)

    It was a strange year 1969… Never got into town or clubs as I spent my time running up to NJ via Greyhound whenever I could.

    Everyone knew fate was around the corner so family and girlfreinds were top priority. Besides we had no money to speak of. The big pay increase as a year or so away…

    Spook training volunteers was great fun. Always was a riot to goof a fledgling agent up and watch them go off on a tangent. Got up to Aberdeen and such a few times…

    Oh so long ago///

    The crabs you eat today slept last night in Chesapeake Bay!!!!

    Comment by Edward Cox — July 20, 2012 @ 2:11 am

  692. I am a Dundalk photographer and writer – and was a U.S. Army photographer on Okinawa in 1970-71. I live about a hundreds yards from the former Ft. Holabird. The officer’s club is the only army building left, and it is occupied by Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 451. The jeep and other vehicle test and training ramps are still there, but are overgrown with trees and bushes.

    Here is a web page with a copy of a very good aerial photo of Ft. Holabird:
    http://www.hughcox.com/holabird.htm

    More photos and memories are available at the local museum:

    Dundalk Patapsco Neck Historical Society and Museum
    4 Center Place
    Dundalk, MD 21222
    phone: 410-284-2331
    e-mail: dundalkhistory@verizon.net

    I’m the computer fix-it guy for them at the museum, and they aren’t too keen on using emails, so that isn’t the best way to contact them.

    I’m always looking to find photos of Ft. Holabird and the Intelligence School and Green Beret training areas of Ft. Howard. Also like written stories about them. Ft. Howard is now a county park where the Intel and Green Beret training was done. A few remnants of mock Vietnam facilities remain, but are rotting and going to dust. You can find various recent photos of Ft. Howard Park amongst my photo sets at:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/ursusdave/sets/

    Ft. Holabird is still a favorite topic of conversation in my neighborhood. I enjoyed reading the blog post and as many comments as I have time for.
    Did you know that the army had missiles pointed at both Ft. Holabird and the steel mills at nearby Sparrows Point? Couldn’t let the enemy take the Intel School and records of reports by agents from around the world and the steel mills made armaments ( http://davidrobertcrews.blogspot.com/2010/05/growing-up-with-nuclear-war-fears-in.html ).

    MP friends took me in to see where the Watergate Burglars had been kept at Holabird – it was 3 a.m. and the building had Mafia Informers sleeping in the dark and 7 Federal Marshals setting up on guard duty reading and playing cards. The building was surrounded by more barbed wire and concertina razor wire than you ever saw in one place. The MPs also took me to the mock Vietnam Village in Ft. Howard. It had just been made unusable for training, because the Intel School had moved to Arizona and Ft. Holabird was virtually empty.

    I once went to the Nat’l Archives looking for Ft. Howard photos from the Intel School and Green Beret training days, but only found a few shots of Green Berets in early 1960s fatigues, carrying old M 14 Rifles, while walking the shoreline of Ft. Howard.

    If you ever get back to the Ft.Holabird area, go the the museum in Dundalk Village Shopping Center across from the post office. They have Ft. Holabird photos ready for you to look at. And if you have any photos or any other Holabird stuff you want donated to the right place, it should probably go to that museum. Many people will see the stuff, and various history researchers will have access to it.

    It’s great to see so many comments over such a continuing timeline to such a really cool story.

    Comment by David Robert Crews {a.k.a. ursusdave} — July 21, 2012 @ 1:46 am

  693. David Crews, have you watched the video on YouTube for Fort Holabird? There are some pictures on Facebook at “Fort Holabird” also.

    Comment by bill — July 21, 2012 @ 11:25 pm

  694. At the Bird for two iterations of training (CI Coordinator Course and CI Agent Course) and one permanent duty assignment (Department of Nonresident Instruction, U.S. Army Intelligence School), all during the 1960s.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — July 26, 2012 @ 3:15 pm

  695. Reference 677. Denis Spelman, I remember you. I was assigned to the 766th MI Detachment in Berlin, aka Berlin Station, 66th MI Group, and one of the commanders at the time was LTC Garrett A. Austin. He could be an SOB. That was my first assignment as a CI Agent. I remember the CI guys who were attached to the USASA Field Station and how the commander hated you guys because he had no control over you. Berlin was a great assignment!

    Comment by Linda Matthews — July 27, 2012 @ 10:26 am

  696. Re. 695

    Linda, your name rings a bell, either Holabird or Berlin. Austin was bad enough in Berlin but my Colonel, William Hamilton, was one of the senior colonels in the city and kept him at bay. But Hamilton retired and Austin became G-2 or some such at ASA HQ, in my direct chain! He made one trip to Europe not long before I left and he was headed to Berlin for one day. We got a back-channel message what day he was coming and, unfortunately, my wife and I took the British duty train out of town that day. I don’t recall ever meeting the man but he sure had it in for me.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — July 28, 2012 @ 11:52 pm

  697. Reference 696. Yes, Austin was assigned to HQ, USASA at Arlington Hall Station after Berlin. Don’t know what his duty position was. He died shortly thereafter.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — July 30, 2012 @ 1:46 pm

  698. Reference 67. MIDMAC: Loyalty, integrity, discretion, morals, and character.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — July 30, 2012 @ 1:55 pm

  699. Really enjoyed reading all the stories about the good ol days. Arrived at the Bird in Sept 1967 after basic in Tenn. Enrolled in 97C and made friends like Bob Miles. Discussed the stock market while eating SOS for breakfast. Unbelievable college-type environment. Tasted the greatest subs ever just across the street. Remember the butcher slicing the meat for the subs. Why didn’t I start Subway? Of our class, 6 went to Korea (Remember the Pueblo) and the rest to RVN. Worked at the Inchon Field Station with fine Koreans. Extended over there and ETSed in Feb. 1970. Rod Hare and David Frager, where are you now? Good times.

    Comment by John Lewis — July 31, 2012 @ 9:00 pm

  700. Like many, I stumbled upon this great site by googling my MOS – 96C2L29.
    it is really interesting to read others experiences before, during and after Holabird.

    As an Air Force brat (born at March AFB hospital), I went into the Army in 1968, took basic at Ft. Ord (A-5-1 old wooden barracks near the bowling alley), an on graduation was advised of my 96C MOS. I asked what the MOS was at the Orderly room and no one knew – one Noncom thought it was a Cook! At any rate! I was told to get a flight to Baltimore, MD and report to a place called Ft. Holabird. Even as an Air Force brat, I had heard of Army posts like Ft. Bliss, Ft. Hood or Ft. Bragg…….but Ft. Holabird? No clue!

    Upon arrival at what is now BWO, I asked a cabby to take me this Ft. Holabird. I will never forget arriving at the main gate and seeing the arch with “USAINTS” on it. Still clueless (Google didn’t exist then) I asked what USAINTS meant at in-processing. Some Spec4 told me it stood for “United States Army Intelligence School”. Well now I was hot! I thought that the Army felt I was so dumb, I needed to go to “intelligence school”. How embarrassing when that Spec4 explained that I was going to be an Interrogator and that I must speak German.

    That was my introduction to the “Bird”. Hope you don’t mind me rambling?
    More to come later. Great meeting all of you.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — August 1, 2012 @ 6:26 pm

  701. Gary (#700),

    Welcome aboard. Looking forward to the rest of your story. I just realized something, we used to be serial numbers and “last fours” and not we are “post numbers”.

    Manny

    Comment by manny — August 2, 2012 @ 10:12 am

  702. That’s better than plot numbers 😉

    Comment by bill — August 3, 2012 @ 10:41 pm

  703. Thanks Manny. Really glad I found the site. My time at the Bird, then Ft. Meade and finally Berlin, are unbelievable memories. Reading the experiences of everyone here, brings those memories “front and center”.

    I didn’t get to a lot of the places close to post because I met a local girl from Sparrows Point and we often went to one of two good clubs in Baltimore – Hollywood Park or Judges. Great places! one of my off-duty highlights was seeing Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young at the Baltimore Convention Center. That must have been late 1968?

    When I graduated from the Bird, I got orders for Meade. I can’t remember the outfit (527th MI seems to ring bells?). It was a holding company and we were supposedly .all headed to MACV HQ within a few months. I
    actually ended up staying at Meade for about 5 months, translating letters from German women mostly, who were looking for military personnel who had been stationed in Germany and promised the women a life in the USA!

    From Meade I got orders for Berlin – JROC – the Joint Refugee Operations Center – part of the 66th MI Group’s 18th MI Battalion. Absolutely the best duty one could hope for!

    by the way……….good point Bill about the plot numbrs.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — August 3, 2012 @ 11:52 pm

  704. I came across this site last night and thought that my Holabird recollections might be of interest to some. Following Basic Training at Fort Leonard Wood in late 1956, I was sent to Fort Holabird to attend the CIC Analyst (971.1 MOS) course. Upon completion, because of my jounalism background, I was assigned to the Public Information Office — the news arm, if you will — of the AIC, where I worked until my 1958 discharge from active duty. Maj. Gen. Richard G. Prather was the newly-assigned CO, having returned to the states from a tour in Thailand. He was determined to make soldiers of us, the enlisted troops; hence, the weekly Friday parades. Helen Klecka, who was our typing teacher, came from a very prominent east-Baltimore family. Our “Clicking with Klecka” lyrics, to the tune of “Pennies from Heaven,” went “Every time you click a key, You’re clicking with Klecka. A, B, C, right on through Z, Clicking with Klecka.” I recall that our gracious Service Club hostess was Mary Victoria Shadl (sp?). Miss Shadl was a Julliard graduate. I recall, too, that the Holabird Library was the only one in the Army system where non-fiction outranked fiction in books borrowed. I don’t rmember the aroma of Colgate Creek, but I do remember the story that the Jeep was tested in its muddy waters before my time there. This would stand to reason, inasmuch as Holabird was the Army’s principal transportation center east of the Mississippi. In those days, the President of the United States travelled by train, and three specially furnished railroad cars for that purpose were maintained in a constant state of readiness. The Liberty Cafe stood opposite the main gate, and the Brentwood Inn did, indeed, have a wine cellar you could tour while your food was being prepared. We took advantage of the tour every time to sample the Cherry Kijafa that always was open and free and available in the cellar. Jack D.

    Comment by Jack Dennerlein — August 9, 2012 @ 7:57 pm

  705. Jack (#704):

    Prather just followed Campbell in the Friday parade business. Must have aa real ego trip for athe brass. It still failed in making us real sold. Our tours overlapped by about nine months or so.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — August 10, 2012 @ 4:43 pm

  706. Manny (#705):

    Nice to hear from you. I was told that the PIO where I worked was part of Gen. Prather’s personal staff. In any event, I worked two offices away from his corner office, and the man never spoke a single word to me in the year and a half I was there. My job allowed me the option of covering the parades with my camera in lieu of marching. Unfortunately, I frequently forgot to load the darn thing with film.

    In my posting, I may have mistakenly identified Helen Klecka as being from the east side of Baltimore. May have been a Freudian slip re East Balto Street. Ms. Klecka was a part of the city’s social set and knew the local newspaper editors. In one case, she helped me get my boss out of an impossible corner when Prather demanded a correction on a story one newspaper — probably the Sun — ran on Holabird’s participation in an annual charity drive. The local papers seldom covered anything happening at the Fort, inasmuch as for years, their inquiries were either unwelcomed or ignored.

    One of myu best friends from those dsys — God rest his soul — was Richard P. Hegarty from Boston, who worked at USAINTS.

    Jack Dennerlein

    Comment by Jack Dennerlein — August 10, 2012 @ 6:39 pm

  707. Manny:

    Do you recall if you were there when someone put a brassiere on the sphinx?

    Jack Dennerlein

    Comment by Jack Dennerlein — August 12, 2012 @ 6:31 pm

  708. Jack(#707):

    Not while I was there that I can recall.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — August 14, 2012 @ 8:50 am

  709. At the Bird late 65 until mid 66. Then 430th MI Det Vicenza Italy from Aug 66 until Aug 68. Anybody from that era still around I would like to hear from you.

    Comment by Lynn Joyce — August 14, 2012 @ 3:40 pm

  710. Manny (#708)

    On one occasion, the troops were assembled in formation in front of the USAINC Headquarters Building as the general awaited the arrival of some foriegn dignitary. The plan was for the twosome to review the troops prior to their business agenda. That’s when someone noticed that in the night, a culprit had fitted a brassiere to the anatomically-correct she-sphinx prominently displayed at the entrance of the HQ Bldg. The item was hurridly confiscated and never heard of again.

    Jack Dennerlein

    Comment by Jack Dennerlein — August 14, 2012 @ 4:07 pm

  711. during my training at Holabird ran into a Fort worth pal in admin.there named Jimmie Jones. Had a Sfc rank at the time I believe. Do any of you remember him? Jimmie is dead now. His sister told me he served a tour or two in Korea. This would have been in late 50’s or early 60’s.

    Comment by ben burt — August 16, 2012 @ 9:13 pm

  712. During my training at the Bird I ran into a Fort Worth pal working in the admin. bldg named Jimmie Jones. He was a SFC at the time I believe. Jimmie has psssed on now. His sister told me he served a tour or two in Korea.This would haave been in the late 50’s or early 60’s. If any of you knew him please respond. thanks. ben burt

    Comment by ben burt — August 16, 2012 @ 9:25 pm

  713. What a flood of memories this website has brought back for me. Beginning with “A Q space Semicolon P space”. I proudly served the Battle of Colgate Creek from 1963 to 1966 in the G-2’s office at USAINTC. I worked for Col Sheehan. I did lead writing for BI’s and wrote case summaries for adjudication. Not exactly super spook stuff. After that I went to work down Holabird Ave at Lever Bros for a period of time. Did marry a wonderful Baltimore gal.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — August 17, 2012 @ 5:34 pm

  714. Ben (711)

    When were you at the Bird? Would help to know a timeframe.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — August 17, 2012 @ 7:15 pm

  715. re;714 GARY; I TOOK AGENT TRAINING AT THE BIRD FROM JULY 1963 TO END OF NOV.63. WAS STILL THERE IN FAR EAST ORIENTATION CLASS WHEN JFK WAS SHOT IN DALLAS. I HAVE 8MM FILM OF THE CONTENUIOUS CANNON FIRING SALUTE TO HIM SOMEWHERE. HAVENT SEEN IT IN QUITE A AWHILE. BEN

    Comment by ben burt — August 18, 2012 @ 7:09 pm

  716. Hi Ben (re 714)

    I was at the Bird for the Interrogators course in late 1968 – sorry, but obviously didn’t know Jimmie Jones? Hopefully someone who frequents this site will respond to you soon.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — August 19, 2012 @ 6:32 pm

  717. Re: 715 I was at Holabird from November 22, 1963 until April, 1964. I was part of the squad that was assigned to clean and fire the cannon, being a recent graduate of Basic Training, and still somewhat spit and polish. I wich i had a copy of the film. i might see myself, although i did not remember anyone filming. Many of my classmates went down to DC for the many services. Those were indeed sad days. j. bone 97B class.

    Comment by James H. Bone — August 20, 2012 @ 11:21 am

  718. Re:715 On that day in November 1963, I was on escort detail in Virginia approaching a Nike Missle site. Everything came to a complete standstill for 3 days. The detail was delivering new nuclear warheads to the site. While on that same detail, for the first time I was exposed to segregation. A black member of our detail could not enter a restaurant that we had selected for dinner. The entire detail then picked a different location to eat. What an aweful experience that was.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — August 20, 2012 @ 1:30 pm

  719. re:717and 718. james and dan. appreciate your input. As far as the 8mm film, i was filming from behind a window and was not close to the cannons. Being from fort worth that day and the months following were difficult for me as you can well understand. Never got real overt comments about it happening in texas but could read looks on some faces when told where i was from. i know both of you will always remember that day even moreso than others. ben burt

    Comment by ben burt — August 21, 2012 @ 12:24 am

  720. I suspect the events of that day and following became one of the reasons the training became even more serious and important to each of us moving forwad in our military careers. j. bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — August 22, 2012 @ 11:22 am

  721. Heres another”did any of you know….” Any who might have worked in Saigon know a Edward (Ed) Diamond who was there in 1966/67. He and I were good buds in the 526th INTC Det. on Okinawa. Ben Burt

    Comment by ben burt — August 26, 2012 @ 8:29 pm

  722. re 721

    Sorry Ben -never knew a Ed Diamond.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — August 28, 2012 @ 4:46 am

  723. I served on the FTX Commitee from 1966 til DEC 1968. Anyone remember SGTMAJ Leon Carter? Rough exterior, but helped a lot of folks along the way.

    Comment by Don Clifton — September 4, 2012 @ 8:52 pm

  724. re 723

    Don…..I left the Bird in Dec. 1968, but didn’t even know there was a FTX and didn ‘t know SgtMaj Carter.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — September 9, 2012 @ 12:21 pm

  725. December 1964, I was not yet 18 when I was sent to “the bird” after basic at Dix. I was surprised and confused about thsi duty station as I was promised by my recruiter that I would become an MP and was more than ready for Ft Gordon GA when orders were handed out. Strangely, my bunk mate who had a serial number one off from mine and who had been attending Columbia University got sent to become a cop and I wound up at Holabird.
    I went to an analyst class but remember spending a lot of time at the barn downstairs and do not remember why. I also remember intrusion classes and getting surveillance training, typing and lots of studying I have some other strange recollections of things happening in class that I will have to save for another time.
    I was supposed to go to Nam but wound up staying and becoming permanent party for a period of time. Lots of 123 club time and home in the Bronx just about every weekend. Went tdy to CBR school at Ft. McClellan where I first saw the real face of segregation up close and personal. I couldn’t wait to get back to the safety and sanity of holabird.
    Got re-assigned to Ingrandes, France and worked Plans, Training and Intelligence and managed classified control for the base. Worked with guys that I had met in school and drank lots and lots of great wine. Sent to Badtolz Germany in the winter for nco academy. Snow was waist deep and sleeping on the floor to keep your bunk tight and your locker picture perfect and spit shining the long black strip in the hallway will always stand out in my mind.
    Closed France and opened up England where I worked for Plans, Training and Security. Hung out in Liverpool and was offered promotion to stay but Nam was to be next stop and I wanted to get back to the world and consider civilian options.
    My experience at Holabird and after made me what I am and it will stay with me forever.

    Comment by Herb Morris — September 9, 2012 @ 10:01 pm

  726. First Don(#723):
    What is FTX? Now Herb(#725): Your post was informative, especially the last sentence. What exactly did Holabird make you? Please additional posts as your time permits.

    Thanks,
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — September 10, 2012 @ 12:21 pm

  727. Manny

    Very few of us get to see what is going on behind the curtain. At 17, I didn’t even know there was a curtain, iron or otherwise. I was a member of a very elite group of people that played a major role in this and other countries all around the world. How could that not affect me. I have since then always seen things as they are and all of that is because of my experiences in intel.

    Comment by Herb Morris — September 10, 2012 @ 4:19 pm

  728. For 724 & 726.FTX was the Field Training Exercise Comittee for the CI Courses to include the surveillance training. Also ran excercises for the Special Forces classes and supported the Area Intelligence trainiing. We built and ran the Vietnamese village at Ft Howard. FTX week was the last week of training for the CI officer and enlisted classes and a student could be dropped from the course on the last day of that week if the cadre felt they could not hack the job. That seldom happened because of the shortage of trained personnel needed because of Vietnam and the related dissident activity going on in CONUS. All in all it was one of the best assignments I had during my career. We had a great mix of folks from all over the couintry from a wide range of education levels and backgrounds.

    Comment by Don Clifton — September 11, 2012 @ 7:58 pm

  729. Herb and Don:

    Thanks. I’m slowly getting it.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 12, 2012 @ 3:23 pm

  730. Anybody remember a guy named Don Brown who worked in the admin bldg in 1955-56. Went to Syracuse with him and still trying to locate. I don’t believe he ever left the ‘bird.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — September 17, 2012 @ 12:20 pm

  731. Reference 690: After the black raft ride to the friendly fisherman and then the later return to the friendly fisherman via the Check-Bavarian barbed wire which I managed to traverse safely, I had several hours to kill before the exercise was over, so a friend (Peter) and I slipped out and followed a road out of Ft. Howard and found a small bar. I believe we may have been the only customers. Spent an hour or so drinking beer and then returned to the exercise. The bartender never even flinched when two guys in black-face and black clothing walked in for a drink. i am sure he had seen it all before, since we and the Special Forces trained there. For all of the secret stuff going on at Ft. Holabird, it was probably the easiest base in the world to slip into and out of. There were holes in every fence.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 17, 2012 @ 7:15 pm

  732. Jack W: The only bar I remember, 1969-70, was just outside Fort Howard, on the right hand side of the road leaving the Fort. Been trying to remember the name of the place but just can’t come up with it. It was sort of a roadhouse kind of place where a lot of the steelworkers hung out. We would often stop there just before of after exercises for a beer or two. Anyone here remember the name of that spot?

    Comment by David Morin — September 19, 2012 @ 8:38 pm

  733. Reference 715. I was also at the Bird when JFK was shot. I remember exactly what I was going when we were told. I was GIing the WAC Detachment dayroom. We were told to prepare to participate in a memorial parade in Washington, D.C., and we waited and waited, but were never called to go.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — September 20, 2012 @ 3:49 pm

  734. RE:733; Linda Matthews. Glad to read of someone else at the “Bird on that tragic day,of Nov.22,1963. As I have stated previously,my agent training class was 64B2A,July through Nov.1963. Seems no one else from that class or time is aware of this site. One other thing; previously I asked about anyone possibly knowing a James(Jim) Anderson who was in my class and also in the same platoon when in basic at Fort Polk. I just recently found out that Jim died in 1993. He had owned a locksmith shop in Tyler,Texas. He had been assigned to Germany after agent school and had become a W.O. sometime during that tour. Ben Burt

    Comment by ben burt — September 21, 2012 @ 6:38 pm

  735. John F. Foltz COLUMBIA, MD John Franklin Foltz, 72, passed away on Thursday, September 27, 2012, at his home in Columbia, Md. Born on December 12, 1939, at Fort Monroe, Va., he lived in Washington, D.C., and Salzburg, Austria, before settling in Palmyra, where he graduated from Palmyra High School in 1957. He attended the Pennsylvania State University, graduating in 1961 with a degree in secondary education. He was commissioned into the Army through the ROTC program and served 23 years in the Military Intelligence branch, retiring at the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. He served two tours in Vietnam in 1967 to 1968 and 1971 to 1972, and was also stationed in Frankfurt, Germany; Schofield Barracks, Hawaii; twice at Fort Holabird, Md.; and numerous times in Washington, D.C., and Arlington, Va. He earned a master’s degree in education from Pepperdine University in 1975. Following his retirement from the Army in 1984, he worked for Pacific Sierra Research Corporation in Rosslyn and Herndon, Va., and then for SAIC in Chantilly, Va. He retired in 2002 and has enjoyed reading, watching college football, traveling, and spending time with his grandchildren. He was preceded in death by his parents, Colonel Christian Ginrich Foltz, U.S. Army (ret.), and Elizabeth Everhardy Foltz. He is survived by his wife of 51 years, Ann Wagner Foltz of Columbia, Md.; his brother, Peter Christian Foltz of Hershey; his children, Colonel Thomas Mark Foltz, U.S.A.F. (ret.), of Falls Church, Va., and Elizabeth Foltz Sanders of Ellicott City, Md.; his grandchildren, James Allen Foltz of Columbia, Mo., Samuel David Foltz of Fitchburg, Mass., and Jillian Elizabeth Sanders of Ellicott City, Md.; a sister-in-law, Patricia Reese Foltz of Hershey; a son-in-law, Christian Todd Sanders of Ellicott City, Md.; and a daughter-in-law, Angela Regina Incorvati-Foltz of Falls Church, Va. A memorial service will be held on Saturday, October 6, 2012, at 3 p.m. at First Presbyterian Church of Howard County, 9325 Presbyterian Circle, Columbia, Md., 21045. Internment will occur at Arlington National Cemetery at a later date. In lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the First Presbyterian Church Memorial Fund.

    Published in Lebanon Daily News on October 2, 2012.
    .

    .

    Comment by frank stella — October 2, 2012 @ 7:00 pm

  736. Since there’s been a lull in entries lately, I thought I would insert this piece of information that Ive been sitting on for a couple of months. My name is Ed Hotchkiss(ref. 187)of Waterbury,Ct.

    The information I am about to give you was an article written in the Waterbury Republican American newspaper in Waterbury, Connecticut, dated May 8th 2012. Here goes:

    Thomas McDonough and Eileen Calli always knew their aunt was a patriot. The siblings always knew she was a proud U.S Army veteran.They always knew she was one of the first women in her field.What they didn’t know was that she was a spy.And a good one. Last month the U.S Army dedicated the 902nd Military Intelligence headquarters at Fort Meade in Maryland to Ann M.McDonough, a Waterbury native. The first women assigned to the counterintelligence corps,McDonough’s interest in the military began as a volunteer in World War II.Her niece, Calli and nephew,McDonough both of Waterbury were present at the dedication April 19th “She would never have allowed this in her lifetime” said McDonough,an attorney.”She was never an attention seeker.Chief Warrant Officer 3 Ann McDonough was the first female enlisted in the counterintelligence corps basic agents course and its polygraph school. She interrogated prisoners in Vietnam and Korea during those conflicts, learning both languages and investigating suspected double agents. Although family members knew McDonough served in Washington and Germany and interrogated prisoners in Vietnam, they say they were not aware of the extent of her activities. “I remember at some point she got some kind of award and someone wrote and article about it” Calli said, likely referencing MvDonough’s admission to the Military Intelligence Hall of Fame in 1988. “And the article said she was like a Mata Hari. I mean she was a spy” Thomas McDonough, who visited his aunt after her retirement to Florida, said there was always something compelling about her.” She would have these friends mostly guys because it was a guys world , who would pop up and they were very well put together. and then they would disappear. I mean. poof. You get a phone call and you’re gone.” Born in Derby in 1915 to Irish immigrants who never owned a home or a car, Ann McDonough was the second oldest of four children who volunteered as an air raid warden in Waterbury during World war II.”I have heard many stories of these times about my determined, strong wiled aunt, banging on the doors of dwellings in her neighborhood that had left their shades up, chastising motorists(who) had not properly dimmed their headlights , often enlisting my father,then still in high school, to asst her in this important duty,” Thomas McDonough said at the dedication. When she was 34 while working for the Internal Revenue service in 1949, McDonough joined the Women’s Army Corps. After completing basic training at Fort Lee, Va., she was assigned to Fort Holabird,Md., where she became the first female admitted to the counter Intelligence Crops Special Agent Course.She served as a special agent between 1952 and 1955 in the 902nd Counter Intelligence Crops Groups in Washington, D.C., whose headquarters now bears her name.” My son said to me, ‘She was basically a human lie detector’,” Calli said.” And it was true” She learned French at the Army Language School in 1956, becoming the first female special agent assigned overseas during the thick of the Cold War. She learned German and for five years completed covert assignments in East and West Germany. When she returned to the United States, she became interested in the relatively new poly graph technology and ultimately became the first female student admitted to the Polygraph school at Fort Gordon,Ga., working as a polygraph examiner until 1966, when she was assigned to Vietnam. There, she set up the polygraph section for the Military Assistance Command and used her training to help the South Vietnamese try to root out suspected double agents.”Its a world in which your friends are your friends at 10 that morning and your enemies at 11,” Thomas McDonough said.McDonough said when he visited his aunt in Florida, a male friend of hers, whom he believes was also in the military intelligence, pointed to a book,” Operation Swordfish,” on her shelf and said, “Your aunts in that.” In the chapter he cited, a female special agent-” the first female agent to graduate from the school”- dresses in a nurse’s uniform, and, with another agent, kidnaps a woman in Germany, injects her with a hypodermic needle to render her unconscious, straps her to a stretcher and takes her away for interrogation in Frankfurt.” Even whats in there is sanitized,” Thomas McDonough said. “This is the sort of stuff the American government never admits to, but this is the sort of stuff people do all the time.” Ann McDonough was ultimately made chief to the polygraph section of the 502ns military Intelligence Detachment in Korea in 1970, when she was 55. She retired from the military in 1974. She died in 1955. Her niece and nephew remember an aunt of strong -will, intelligence and patriotism.”she lived a long life and a full life,” said Thomas McDonough.” She got to do what she never would have had a chance to do if she had stayed home and worked at Scovill.” (Scovill was a copper and brass manufacturing company which was one of 3 in Waterbury at the time of World War II, that converted to making munitions for the war effort,Waterbury was known for decades as the brass and copper center of the world)

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — October 7, 2012 @ 2:00 pm

  737. Reference 736, Ann McDonough died in 1995 not 1955.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — October 7, 2012 @ 4:18 pm

  738. Was at Holabird for 97B40 from October 70 to March 71. Class leader was a Marine gunny sergeant. Had enlisted but did not choose OCS, was told I would never get MI. At Holabird met a 2LT named Dennis Potts from high school. He told me everyone in his OCS class who had MI in top 3 got it. Three of us from class were asked to take language exams, I for German and 2 others for Spanish. I got order for Germany, they for state-side,one for San Antonio. Most got orders for Korean or Vietnamese language school, but they were temporary. Met some guys in Germany who said school was just a holding pattern. Was assigned to 20th MID in Frankfurt, of later Abu Ghareb infamy. Was G2 custodian of documents when Red Brigade bombed parts of IG Farben bulding. Thirty months in Germany in civilian clothes living on the economy wasn’t bad considering. Was assigned a jeep and driver in case of war but was never trained how to read code books or even turn on the radio. Would have been hard to collect counter intelligence. Greg Minton who served with me near the end is involved with the CIC group out of Tampa and is always looking to new participants.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — October 22, 2012 @ 1:18 pm

  739. Correction to previous post. Frankfurt assignment was with the 205th MID. We were attached to Fifth Corps and worked out of the IG Farben Bulding.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — October 22, 2012 @ 1:20 pm

  740. re 738 and 739

    Hi Vince and welcome!

    I was at the Bird almost exactly two years before you for 96C2L29 – like you,a German linguist. I remember the IG Farben building well although my duty station was Berlin. We were part of the 66th MI Group with HQ in Munich at McGraw Kaserne.

    Hope to hear more from you.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — October 23, 2012 @ 5:33 pm

  741. Interesting footnote to Bader Meinhof. I was also the G2 member of the AG Inspection team that was headed by a West Point Graduate Major. We received a report from area intelligence that he was seen in the company of the wrong people. While lacking some of the background details, I do recall us performing a search of his BOQ while he was not there. I was handed some coins and the telephone number of his room and told to call the number if he approached.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — October 25, 2012 @ 2:30 pm

  742. And a comment on the change in morale. Part of the AG inspection from a G2 perspective was to assess overall LIDMAC type issues on the posts. When I arrived in 71, the biggest problems were black and white racial tensions. When I left in 73, they had all gone away as the greatest issues were widespread drug issue, especially hash.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — October 25, 2012 @ 2:33 pm

  743. Vince (#742):

    What exactly does LIDMAC stand for? Many of us older folks have no idea what all athe acronyms stand for. Help us out, please.

    Thanks,
    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — October 26, 2012 @ 4:13 pm

  744. Hi Benny, This is one of your old buddies from the 526th, Ted Schmitz. What a surprise to find you on the internet. Your comments sure bring back old memories. I still have a bunch of photos of you, Herman, and Diamond. I bring them out every so often. If we ever contact one another, I wull get your address and send you some copies. Too much to talk about, so I will just say: Hope you find this comment!!

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — October 26, 2012 @ 4:34 pm

  745. Manny (743)

    LIDMAC is an acronym for “Loyalty, Integrity, (I forget the D), Morals and Character. It was used as a criteria for the agents in Intel who conducted background checks on people like us to see if we were worthy of security clearances. These agents asked our relatives, neighbors, friends, acquaintances, etc. about us with regards to our “LIDMAC “.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — October 26, 2012 @ 5:26 pm

  746. The “D” in LIDMAC stands for Discretion.

    Comment by Ed Harris — October 26, 2012 @ 7:17 pm

  747. RE; LIDMAC. NEVER HEARD OF THIS ACRONYM WHEN DOING B.I.S IN 1965-66. CANT REMEMBER THE BASIC CRITERIA OF QUESTIONS WE ASKED BUT ALWAYS FINISHED WITH’DO YOU KNOW OF ANY REASON THIS PERSON SHOULD NOT BE PUT IN A POSITION OF TRUST AND RESPONSIBILITY WITHIN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT (ARMY)? BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — October 27, 2012 @ 11:14 am

  748. Hey Benny Burt check #744. A Little of my history… I was sent to Fort Holabird in Aug. of 1962. Graduated from Agent Co-ordinator school and was stationed in Chicago 5th Army Hdq. for 15 months doing all the paper work for you Agents out in the field. I was sent to Okinawa in March of 1964. I did most of my work in the supply room, working for Sgt. World. Had a great time ordering you Agents around doing clean-up work around the compoundd. Hope you remember me Benny. Got some pictures you might like to look at with you and Ed, and Gerry and me of course. I would like to mentiion a couple of buddies from Holabird, Henry “the Crow” Koppleman and Dave alverez. You guys are not forgotten! By the why, I loved Okinawa so much that I would have re-upped if I was assured of staying there, but the Army said no. I left in June of 1965 and was sad sad sad!!! Lot more to add, but later.

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — October 27, 2012 @ 11:33 am

  749. Hey Frank Davis #407, Found this site only a few days ago and am amazed at what I am reading. (Ted Schmitz by the way!) Remember You and I lifting Weights and then enjoying a few cold ones in Club Cobean(spelling)? Haven”t seen any more comments from you since #407, hope you get back on this site, would like to rehash a few old memories. Hope to see you on this site. Boy, this brings back nice memories. Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — October 27, 2012 @ 12:19 pm

  750. LIDMAC was used at least as far back as 1966. The final question of a BI interview was: “Do you recommend John Doe for a position of trust and responsibility with the U.S. Government?” Do you remember first question?

    Comment by Ed Harris — October 27, 2012 @ 5:25 pm

  751. I was taught about LIDMAC while going through the coodinator course in September of 1965.

    Comment by bill — October 27, 2012 @ 10:55 pm

  752. We also learned about SAEDA, Subversion and Espionage Directed Against the US Army. I love the Army Acronyms.

    Comment by bill — October 27, 2012 @ 11:00 pm

  753. Thanks for the clarifications.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 28, 2012 @ 8:02 am

  754. Robert Lane (1st Lt.) looking for Captain Bill, last name unknown: In 1970 Intell class at Fort Holabird; Green Beret Captain back from NAM to this class: from Butt, Montana. Please call Robert Lane @ 510-465-1933 or 510-508-1944.

    Comment by Robert Lane — October 29, 2012 @ 1:58 pm

  755. LIDMAC was the basis of all the BI I wrote leads for in 1963 thru 1965 at the G-2 Spec Ops at Holabird.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — October 29, 2012 @ 4:26 pm

  756. ENTRY 747. ED, I STILL LIKE MY FINAL QUESTION BETTER. OF COURSE, NEIGHBORS, FRIENDS AND RELATIVES ARE GOING TO RECOMMEND PERSON FOR ETC. BUT THE WAY I ASKED IT IN THE NEGATIVE SHOULD MAKE THEM THINK MORE OF AN HONEST ANSWER. I’M NOT TRYING TO START AN ARGUMENT; MANY A TIME ALL ANSWERED BASICALLY THAT THE INDIVIDUAL WAS ALMOST AN ANGEL ON EARTH; THEN A CHECK AT THE P.D. OR SHERIFFS OFFICE REVEALED THEGUY HAD A RAP-SHEET THREE FEET LONG. WHY WE WERE REQUIRED TO WASTE TIME TALKING TO THE AFORE-MENTIONED IS BEYOND ME. THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT ANYWAY. MAYBE I SHOULD GO BACK AND CHECK MY AGENT’S NOTES! BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — October 29, 2012 @ 8:52 pm

  757. re 752

    Ben…..you never met my neighbor then! She wouldn’t have said a good word about me no matter what – and I didn’t (and still don’t) have a rap sheet of any length. :-). She was just a mean old woman.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — October 30, 2012 @ 5:03 pm

  758. GARY; EVIDENTLY YOU PASSED THE LIDMAC TEST REGARDLESS OF ANY NEGATIVE RESPONSSE . ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS TOLD MY FOLKS THAT AN F.B.I. AGENT ASKED THEM QUESTIONS ABOUT ME! BEN

    Comment by ben burt — October 30, 2012 @ 8:57 pm

  759. Ben – We lived at Vandenberg AFB when the agents came through our base housing neighborhood. My Dad, a CMSGT was worried I had done something wrong either at Ft. Ord during basic, or at the Bird! We had a good laugh about it later.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — October 31, 2012 @ 4:55 pm

  760. Entry 752: Once agents got to the field, the question was probably asked in several different ways. However, I was relating how the questions was supposed to be phrased as taught at Holabird.

    Comment by Ed Harris — October 31, 2012 @ 10:07 pm

  761. re 756

    Ed – I was a 96C2l29 so not sure how the LIDMAC questioning was conducted. By the way, what was the first question?

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — November 1, 2012 @ 7:05 am

  762. Hey Ted Schmitz,

    I remember. I recall you working down there with Askins, World and my main man Yoshihiro Higa. Also, I remember sitting at the Club Cobean bar with you. Do you remember Dave Sexton? He was married and lived off post as I recall so we didn’t see him often. He wrote comments #157 and 158 above. That makes four of us on this site from the 526th.

    I hope all is well with you. Still in Milwaukee?

    It looks like you can’t keep Bennie off this site.

    Frank

    Comment by Frank Davis — November 3, 2012 @ 9:56 am

  763. Folks,

    Thanks for the discussion on the integrity issue. Around 1969 an agent with the 108th was court marshalled for falsifying investigations. I guess his case load got too big and he just started completing the paper work without doing all the hard work. I think that he was an E-7 and the Colonel took a stripe, fined him and then shipped him off to a new assignment and a new MOS. In my thirty months with MI, it was the only black mark that I remember.
    I was talking to some youth the other day, encouraging them to vote. One asked me what was the big deal about voting. I told him when I got out of the army, after three years, I was still only twenty years old and not old enough to vote. I said that they should appreciate the right they had and do it. I hope I reached some of them. The next day I said good-bye to a grand nephew who is off to the Army. He told me he always votes. I guess we are still doing some things right.

    Dave

    Comment by David Edmonds — November 3, 2012 @ 11:47 am

  764. Entry 752: Do you know the acronym RATGAS?

    Comment by Ed Harris — November 3, 2012 @ 9:01 pm

  765. Hi Frank, Damn it’s good to hear from the old members of the 526th. I can’t seem to recall Dave Sexton off hand but he’s probably in the back of my mind somewhere. Yes I do remember Higa-san and don’t forget shimabuku-san. Have pictures of them both. Higa-san standing by a 526th van and shimabuku-san standing by the 57 chevy. I sort of managed the club and had an in with them and the girls. Remember Kyoko, Sumeko, and Saeko, all great gals. Lots of fond memories of Okinawa and of the fellows I worked with. I’ve been connecting with Benny Burt for the last couple of weeks and it sure does my old heart good. Came on to this site by accident and really like it. Who would of thought after all these years. Benning says you’re from the New York area, Hope “Sandy” didn’t cause you any trouble. I’m in Cudahy, Milw. subburb(spelling) and have a darn good life with very littly to complain about. Hope to catch up with you in the coming days. A Pal, Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 3, 2012 @ 10:20 pm

  766. Hey Ed Harris, I don’t RATGAS.

    Comment by bill — November 3, 2012 @ 11:17 pm

  767. RE; THE INTEGRITY FACET ETC. WHILE AT THE 526TH INTC.DET.; ONE AGENT WITH MANY YEARS OF SERVICE GOT DRUNK AND PUNCHED A TAXI DRIVER. LOST HIS CREDS, RANK, AND ASSIGNED TO WORK IN MILITARY HOSPITAL. ANOTHER DID SOMETHING SIMILAR WHILE DRUNK AND HAD CREDS TAKEN AWAY AND BOOTED OUT OF INTC WORK. BOTH OF THESE GUYS WERE OF NCO RANK WITH LOTS OF TIME IN SERVICE. QUITE A SHAME. BOOZE WAS TOO CHEAP THERE AND SOME JUST COULDN’T HANDLE IT. WE HAD OUR OWN PRIVATE CLUB WHICH WAS TO BE A PLACE FOR GUYS TO DRINK AND HAVE ACCESS TO ROOMS TO SLEEP IT OFF IN SAME BUILDING. DIDN’T WORK IN SOME CASES REGRETTABLY. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — November 5, 2012 @ 9:26 pm

  768. Re: entry 766:

    Really
    And
    Truly
    Give
    A
    Sh@#

    Comment by Ed Harris — November 5, 2012 @ 10:05 pm

  769. That’s why I said I don’t. 😉

    Comment by bill — November 5, 2012 @ 11:51 pm

  770. Hey Bill and Ed, Are you guys talking about a ratgas or a ratsass?

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 6, 2012 @ 5:42 pm

  771. Ted – RATGAS – means……Really And Truly Give A Shi (nola)

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — November 6, 2012 @ 6:04 pm

  772. Thanks Gary, glad to know. Sounds like I’m an outsider. Lot to learn, three yesrs in the service wasn’t enough. Hope you guys voted today!!!

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 6, 2012 @ 7:32 pm

  773. Ted – no problem! In honesty, I had to Google it myself, as it wasn’t something I learned during Intel days.

    I did vote – unfortunately my candidate didn’t win. Another long 4 years ahead.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — November 7, 2012 @ 5:08 am

  774. Gary, Glad I’m not alone, thought I was the only one out of the loop(google: Where would we be without it?) I too voted for Gov. Romney and like you said, “Another long 4 years ahead”. I really don’t expect anything to get done it Washington either way. Sad, very sad!!! Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 7, 2012 @ 1:01 pm

  775. Ted,things will get done but only to erode this great country of ours.Our dear leader couldn’t pass a b.i. to get a job as a security guard at Walmart.
    Ed Hotchkiss(ref. 187)

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 7, 2012 @ 6:16 pm

  776. Ed – well said!

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — November 7, 2012 @ 6:26 pm

  777. RE 775@ 776. ED, GARY; STARTED TO LEAVE THIS ALONE BUT JUST COULDN’T. I HAVE BEEN A DEMOCRAT ALL MY ADULT LIFE SO NATURALLY I VOTED FOR OBAMA & STRAIGHT PARTY TICKET. WHY? ONE; I CAN’T IDENTIFY WITH GUYS LIKE ROMNEY AND SUPER-RICH ESP; ONES WHO MADE THEIR BIG BUCKS OFF THE BENT BACKS OF BLUE-COLLAR STIFFS OR .JUST INHERITED IT FROM FATHERS. TWO; PUT LOTS OF MONEY IN NON-TAXABLE FUNDS IN CAYMAN ISLANDS ETC. WHILE I’M HAVING TO PAY TAXES OUT OF MY SOCIAL SECURITY PLUS OUT OF MY REQUIRED WITHDRAWAL FROM MY NOT-SO-LARGE I.R.A.THREE; MY DAD WAS A ‘YELLOW-DOG’ DEMOCRAT WHO LIVED THROUGH THE HOOVER YEARS AND WAS A HUGE INFLUENCE ON ME. LETS SEE HOW THE NEXT FOUR YEARS PAN OUT. WE’LL ALL SURVIVE JUST LIKE WE SURVIVED GEORGE W.! BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — November 7, 2012 @ 10:53 pm

  778. Hey Ben, Just couldn’t leave it alone, Huh? It’s hard to stay out of a political conversation. What’s good for one is not always good for another. I myself do not like Mr. Obama but in a democracy the majority rules. We’ll just have to see how it goes. Bottom lines is that their has to be compromise on both sides and I do not see that happening too soon.. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Still a Happy Camper, Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 8, 2012 @ 12:07 am

  779. Ben / Ted….we’re at risk here of making our beloved Holabird graduates site
    a political forum, but hey, we just had an election! Ben – my family has always been split – half Republican / half Democrat. I come from a military family and have always believed that a strong military is just one of the many things that make our country great. I have respected any CIC we have ever had in my lifetime except those whose actions negatively affect our military. Carter was the worst in my opinion and I see too much of his liberalism in Obama. I hope I’m wrong? Clinton moved us from HUMINTS to ELINTS which I also thought was a mistake, but thats “closer to home” for most of us on this site and the reason I personally left the military.

    I’d love to spend two hours doing some 96C with the CIC 🙂

    All the best

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — November 8, 2012 @ 3:15 am

  780. Hi Frank, Glad to hear from some of the old buddies at the 526th. I spent a good deal of my time in that club(Cobean) and was sorry to have to leave it and Okinawa. I’ve lived in a little subburd of Milw.(Cudahy) all my life and will probably die here. This life has treated me fair so far and can’t complain. I seem to recollect Dave Sexton but just vaguely. Didn’t you use to bunk will Walt Breece? Him and I were students together at the “Bird”. I have a few pictures of some of the guys but not of you;still look the same,Huh? Benny and I e-mail one another and just chat, and yea, He does seem to like this site pretty much. Well, gotta go, catch you later, Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 8, 2012 @ 12:20 pm

  781. Personally I would hate to see this site deteriorate into just another opinion blog. The emphasis should remain simply Holabird and related subjects without political polemics.

    Thanks and keep posting.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 8, 2012 @ 4:02 pm

  782. I totally agree with Manny. I do not think politics and LIDMAC are a good mix.

    Comment by Ed Harris — November 8, 2012 @ 6:03 pm

  783. Manny;ed’ I too agree with you guys 100%. lets all get back to what the originator meant for this site to be. OKAY? He might kill what has been a great forum. Ben Burt

    Comment by ben burt — November 8, 2012 @ 10:01 pm

  784. I think we are in agreement that communism was an evil entity that we studied at Holabird to some degree and we were in the field of identifying it.It is now in the highest echelon of our government.Look at the background,accomplishments,associations and especially character of the one who was put in charge of this great nation.Take a look at ref.# 736,would this patriot
    believe how far we’ve come to disintegrating? Sooner or later we had to come to some sort of commentary on the direction of our beloved country. I believe that for our country, everyone who contributes to our Holabird site has the best intentions for it.GOD BLESS AMERICA!

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 8, 2012 @ 11:10 pm

  785. 784: With all due respect, this board has been a welcome alternative to the political blathering elsewhere on the net and various other media outlets. Because I disagree with you politically does not make me any less a patriot than you. Peace.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — November 12, 2012 @ 9:29 pm

  786. I can’t even find the web page describing the original 97B4 Mos- now it is 35L I think. My full MOS became 97BLGM3

    Comment by John Washington — November 13, 2012 @ 5:51 pm

  787. I found it quite easy to access to the various MOS categories and hours of instruction of each course at Ft Huachuca and the school. I was at Holabird in 1968 in the 97B40 course and it is very similar to the CI agent course today other than the electronic and other advanced fields that we have seen since 1970.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — November 14, 2012 @ 7:39 pm

  788. My father was an instructor at Ft. Holabird from 1966-68/ Lt. Col. R.R. Taylor Jr. Anyone remember him. He would walk around with a black cigarette holder and smoked Pall Mall’s and he was very short. Would like to hear if anyone remembers him. He just passed away and my sister and I are piecing together his notes about his career.

    Comment by Tracy Taylor — November 15, 2012 @ 10:19 pm

  789. re 788 – Tracy – I went through Ft. Holabird in Fall 1968 and recall a Col. Taylor. He was short and I believe he taught one of the interrogator courses I attended. I don’t remember much else about him though.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — November 16, 2012 @ 9:32 pm

  790. I was in the last enlisted class through the Bird in 1971. Class 71B11. I arrived at Holabird in the middle of the night. The SPC5 MP gate guard gave me half of his sandwich since nothing was open. I had trouble believing I was not going to be chewed out. I ended up with the Fort Lewis Field Office, 115th MI, Special Operations Detachment from June 1971-January 1974.

    Comment by Mike Hanlon — November 27, 2012 @ 6:00 pm

  791. re;790; Mike Hanlon; Congrats on being in last class at the Bird. If I remember correctly; yours is first entry from such. Out of curiousity, mind telling why you got out. Also any of you others who put in three or less in the INTC. I have stated my reason(s) more than once in this forum. As I said, just curious. ben burt

    Comment by ben burt — November 27, 2012 @ 8:19 pm

  792. re 791-Ben Burt; I was in from 1968 to 1971. My MOS was 97B40 and I was a hard stripe E-5 from graduation from the Bird until I seperated. One of the reasons I left was because of the low pay. I got married right before I went to Viet Nam and I didn’t want to try and support my wife on Army pay. My duty station before Nam was in a large eastern city’s field office. In Viet Nam, I was working the Phoenix Program and assigned to a MACV district team. That reminded me that I was really in the Army, plainclothes CONUS duty or not, and I didn’t like being in the Army.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — November 28, 2012 @ 4:36 pm

  793. I enlisted under a draft order, from August 70 to August 73. Was at Bird from about October 70 to March 71. Graduated from college in 69, one years work, one year graduate school, and a MSBA from Boston University while stationed in Frankfurt. Once Volar kicked in and the eliminated enlisting for Counter Intelligence, the crop was quality but different. When I went through Holabird, 90 % of my enlisted class had at least three years of college and many had graduated or gone beyond. It was a different time.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — November 30, 2012 @ 5:49 pm

  794. re 791

    Ben – I took basic at Ft. Ord from Jun-Aug 68 then at the Bird until the end of that year. Spent early 69 at Ft. Meade and then stationed at Joint Refugee Operations Center in Berlin as a 96C until Dec 70. I got out then because I got an offer from the government to stay in Berlin, at JROC as a civilian interrogator. Couldn’t pass that up.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — November 30, 2012 @ 8:38 pm

  795. KEN; VINCE; GARY; THANKS FOR YOUR RESPONSES. WERE ANY OF YOU OFFERED A RE-UP BONUS? WHEN I DECIDED TO GET OUT; THE RE-UP BONUS FOR 6 YEARS WAS $8400; A “”ROCKER’WITH MY 3 STRIPES( WHICH I ONLY WOULD WEAR FLYING STAND-BY) MORE BAS AND BAQ OF COURSE. WAS TEMPTING BUT OBVIOUSLY I DECLINED. THIS WAS MARCH 1966.

    Comment by ben burt — December 3, 2012 @ 9:20 pm

  796. Re: 795

    Burt,
    No re-up bonus was offered to me, but Vietnam was winding down and I expected that the Intell branches would be getting cut as I was told they always did after a war (1972). On the other hand, maybe they just didn’t want me!
    While still with the 109th, it came down from On High that time-in-rank and time-in-service could be waived for E-5 Special Agent’s for promotion to E-6. The one lifer in the Field Office pitched a bitch over this so the Region III CO didn’t recommend any of us E-5s for promotion.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — December 4, 2012 @ 3:43 pm

  797. 796;KEN; SEEMS THERE ALWAYS IS ONE KNOTHEAD (WHEN IN BASIC AT POLK; SENIOR CADRE SGT’S FAVORITE TERM FOR US TRAINEES WAS NOT KNOTHEAD BUT D–KHEAD!); IN EVERY ORGANIZATION!. BEN

    Comment by ben burt — December 4, 2012 @ 8:00 pm

  798. Like many others, I happened on this site by accident. My tour at Holabird was somewhat earlier than most of those posting on this site. Holabird was perhaps a bit more GI than later but way less than basic had been. Armed services members were held in better esteem than at the time of Vietnam. Downtown Baltimore was full of soldiers and sailors in uniform wandering around.

    After graduation from Centre College in May 1954 with no job, no money, and no prospects, I was drafted and sent to Fort Knox, Ky for basic training (mid-November, 1954 to late January 1955, cold, snowy, muddy, lots of tanks). Following a short leave after basic, I had my first-ever plane ride via National Airport to Friendship International. There I encountered another guy headed to Holabird so we buddied for the rest of the day.

    We left our duffel bags in lockers, took a bus downtown, ate lunch, went back to the airport, picked up our gear, and took the bus back downtown. That bus driver pointed us to the stop for the bus to Holabird. That bus stopped at the gate on Holabird Avenue and we went in expecting another Fort Knox. The friendly MP told us where to go and how to get there – a set of wooden barracks on the school side of the railroad tracks serving the Army rail maintenance facility. Next surprise – the barracks just had single bunks, not double, and there was a rack to hang clothes on by each one.

    Since we arrived just before a weekend we were among the incoming and unprocessed troops who caught weekend KP. KP provided another surprise – the mess hall crew was WAY more friendly than the one at Knox. The food was better, too. Until the orientation, including interviews, started we had other busy work jobs. The only interview question I remember: “When was the last time you had a date?” Answer: “Last May.” Question: “Don’t you like girls?” Answer: “Sure, but I didn’t have any money.” That seemed to be a good enough answer.

    Rumor had it that we would get Class A passes and, unlikely as it seemed, we did on a Tuesday evening about 5:00. Shortly, a group of us went across the street to the bar/sub place to exercise them.

    The next morning I was policing outside the fence on Holabird Av. While we were at lunch, the rain came. After lunch I was one of the lucky ones put on guard duty for the week. We had no other duties and could sleep in the daytime – this too was a huge change from basic. I remember four guard posts: 1. The front gate on Dundalk (closed at night), where the guard walked from the entrance along the fence to the base of the railroad trestle, which was at least 20 feet in the air; 2. Beside Colgate Creek, aka Colda** Creek; 3. The railroad entrance, ground level on a viaduct over Brunning Highway; and 4. The Main School Building in the middle of the fort where the guard walked around the building – this post was a 24-hour post on weekends. We were to carry carbines on duty.

    Guard duty adventures:
    Early the first night, the rain changed to snow and started to pile up. I had the main gate post and dutifully walked to the trestle and back since the snow was only beginning to stick. When I returned at 4:00 am, there was plenty of snow and no tracks to the trestle appeared. I didn’t add any.
    Before my night at the Brunning Highway post, the Guard commander had found that some of the troops had not qualified with the carbine so we switched to M-1s for the rest of the guard duty stint. (I was one of the offenders because I had been sick as a dog at the carbine range and had been confined to the target shack.) Firing either weapon would have been disastrous for anyone living across the street.
    On Saturday, I had the school building post. It had become cold after the snow so some of the guys had been walking around close to the building to get a bit warm instead of on the sidewalk/street away from the building. We were instructed to stop doing that. I slacked off a bit but didn’t completely quit until my last shift at midday Sunday.
    The guard duty wasn’t as bad as at Ft. Knox, but still an undesirable chore.

    Immediately after the guard duty, we were assigned to class C-74 (clerk-typist with top secret clearance). Two guys from my basic training company were in my class. About half way through, one of them had flunked out – I don’t know what happened to him afterwards. The typing instructor was a fairly gruff civilian man from Bowling Green, Ky.

    Being in class was somewhat like college, except for the uniforms, marching to class, Saturday parades (similar to Centre’s Saturday morning classes back then), less “homework”, and the occasional KP day. The whole class had KP the same day (weekdays) so everybody was at the same point in the class. Of the four times our class was on KP, I was in the enlisted mess hall once, the officers’ mess hall three times. The work day was a bit longer at the officers’ but they had somewhat better food and service. We got the better food, too. One of the times there, the cooks gave us a big leftover sheet cake to take back to the barracks for the rest of the class. This was a whole different world from basic!

    One day the class went to Fort Meade to qualify with the submachine gun (Grease-gun). The day was pleasant, the range was beside an inlet on Chesapeake Bay, lunch was a picnic kind of meal on the shore. Yet again, very unlike Knox.

    The last week of class was simulating the original setup of an office. We were given a form to order all the necessary supplies to run the office with. The prime instruction was “Remember to include on your first order more order forms.” There was a class dinner/celebration at the end of the week.

    Weekends were used for visiting the sights in Baltimore – historic like Fort McHenry, the shot tower, and not so historic like “The Block” on East Baltimore Street. Some of us went to Washington several times to see the sights there. One Sunday we walked across the river to see the Marine Iwo Jima Memorial. Just before we got there we were caught in a fierce rain storm with no shelter to be had. We walked a mile or so to catch a streetcar back to downtown D.C. The sun came out so we had dried out when we got to the stop.

    Before leaving Holabird, we were told to pick three Army areas in the U.S. and three countries overseas for our assignments. If they fit with the Army’s needs, we would get one of our choices. I chose areas in the eastern part of the U.S. and three countries in Western Europe. When our orders came, mine said Sixth Army, Presidio of San Francisco, which was a cushy assignment. I was one of five guys in our class going there – the others were Hugh Gallagher, Carl Halden, Dick Langley and John Snakard. Immediately after checking in at the 115th (“on the hill”), all five of us were assigned to G2, Sixth Army. The other four went to the investigations branch and I went to clearances. We only visited the 115th four or five times during our year and a half there. For the next 18 months we shuffled paperwork at G2. Off duty time was a ball!

    Dick married while in SF. I lost track of Carl and Hugh slowly over the years. John and I still exchange Christmas cards.

    My apologies for being so wordy.

    Comment by Bob Fox — December 9, 2012 @ 9:19 pm

  799. I continue to really enjoy the tales posted here. I was assigned as an instructor on the Field Training Exercise Committee from 12/66 until 12/68. I was then assigned to the 635th MI DET, 198th INF BDE, Americal Division in Chu Lai, Vietnam. It was a very interesting assignment running informants. Probably the assignment that kept me in MI for the next 28 years. I was wondering if there is anyone watching this site who was also assigned to the Americal DIV during that time. Everyone have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

    Comment by Don Clifton — December 10, 2012 @ 11:53 am

  800. Bob Fox(we overlapped at Knox and Holabird)#798:

    Your recollections of all the guard posts are so clear. Since I spent my entire time at Holabird
    and cannot recall all of what you do I am now worried about the onset of vascular dementia. If my posts start getting bizaar please let me know so I can have my neuro-psych evaluation before making a total ass of myself.

    Thanks all,

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 10, 2012 @ 12:23 pm

  801. I was in Group B-248, January through April 1954. I originally was assigned to the Central Records Facility, but because I was a 1301, basic course graduate, I was transferred to the 116th in WashDC. They had a 5000 case backlog there. Originally, I was assigned to the House Un-American Activities Committee on the Hill with Cruz Reynoso (later California state supreme court justice) — we were liaison officers, actually file searchers — but later went to the 90-man investigation department. I was nabbed by the major in charge as his administrative assistant, but later begged off by going to Major Jesse Baker’s crypto-investigations team. Spent a lot of time in the Pentagon and Arlington Hall. I picked my replacement, Dick Murphy (Harvard and Cambridge) who later became ambassador to the Philippines, Syria, Saudi Arabia and assistant secretary of state for the mideast. We still see each other occasionally in NYC where he lives. Giles Clark and George Coggin of NC were in my group as were Steve Pearsall and Dick Caulfield (later dean of the Drake U. law school), and Jim Vick, starting tackle at Stanford.We keep in touch. I got an early discharge and went to Germany to work in the 66th in the refugee program in FRankfurt with lots of tdy in the Cologne-MUenster area. I was offered a job at Oberursel and nearly took it. I got pretty good in German. Went to a special language program at Offenbach, the one-time Gestapo hqs for the area. LTC Butler and Captain Ansaume were my bosses and later Captain Kennedy. My wife and I loved Germany, but business opportunities brought me home to Oceanside, CA.

    Comment by Jim Downs — December 10, 2012 @ 1:52 pm

  802. JIM (#801).

    I wonder if the Captain Ansaume is the same Headquarters executive company commander mentioned in post #75 (at Holabird).

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — December 11, 2012 @ 4:12 pm

  803. I would imagine so. He left Germany and region III of the 66th CIC in early 1956 or late 1955 for reassignment.

    Comment by Jim Downs — December 11, 2012 @ 4:28 pm

  804. I was at Ft. H. from Nov 1952 to June ’54. After graduating, I was assigned as an instructor at the school. Great duty. The No. 1 recreation on our “campus” was playing bridge. We put on Army problems in downtown Baltimore, often at night. You could walk down alleys in the dark–perfectly safe. Don’t try it now. Capt. Clifford was our officer in charge. Great guy. Some of my fellow instructors were John Beach, Leo Himmelsbach, “Bugs” Baer, John Murray and Dave Burton. Many post-Holabird friendships followed and still exist. My wife worked at Hamburger’s men’s store and we rented an apartment on Holabird Avenue from the Kraska family. The summer weather was miserably humid. Not to our liking as Californians. We were introduced to pizza for the first time there. And oyster stew–yuk. The soft-shell crab was fabulous. The side trips to Wash DC for the McCarthy Hearings, big league baseball and football–all a real treat. Wouldn’t have missed the Maryland adventure for the world. — Daniel Hruby

    Comment by Daniel Hruby — December 11, 2012 @ 7:25 pm

  805. My memories come back as I read these posts. In basic at Fort Ord, 16 of us were called out of a night formation to go down to C&A. A guy our age in civilian clothes there did’t tell us much. But, he said we were being considered for a special program. We had to take a test then and there first. It was a spelling test. We all passed, told we would have to write a lot of reports and the army didn’t have time to teach us to spell. I arrived at Holabird in the first week of January. It was snowing. I decided to shave before I hit the sack. Another guy was shaving and he noticed my duffel bag with my US serial number on it. He said he noticed that and asked if I were going to clerk’s school. I said I understand it would be decided by an interview whether or not I would. That was the rumor.
    He replied, “Well, if they pick you, you will have to enlist. There are a bunch of us here from Fort Dix, and we are all RA.” I replied that all 16 of us from Ord were US. I saw him a couple of days later, and told him that US personnel were being taken into the agent’s program. He erupted into a stream of profanity and admitted that he had heard that also. What had happened is this: a CIC major had toured all the Ivy league schools in New England and sold them a bill of goods on this super secret CIC program that would require candidates to enlist. They upped in droves. In the other areas, first through fifth, they simply filled their quotas with US guys. In my group, we had about eight First army guys, all RA. Let me tell you, they were writing their congressmen on almost a daily basis. To no avail, of course. Whenever any of us US folks didn’t know what was happening, we always asked one of the others, “Hey, what’s going on here? You’re regular army, you must know. We’re just citizen soldiers doing our 24 months.” Other jokes about “you having found a home in the army” kept us all laughing. The US guys.
    When we put in our requests for assignments, I asked for Holabird as a friend of mine was an instructor in the Aberdeen crew that ran the combat village and the surveillance programs. I wanted to get married, and a friend of his in G-1 said our whole class was going to FECOM (Japan and Korea). Everyone was asking for Austria or Chicago or some other choice spot. I stayed at the Bird and they did go to Asia. I never got my instructor’s slot, but was transferred to the 116th and civilian status. I wrote to these guys in Korea, and they were making the best of it. About our groups:
    The other funny thing was that each group had about five sergeants in it, mostly officers who had to return to their permanent rank,and got their choice of schools. But, a few groups had a gunny sergeant from the Marines. These guys could not tolerate our country club demeanor and marched their classes tightly to class every morning with medlodious “Sound Off” cadence commands. We would always tell them how sharp they looked and how lucky they were to have a real sergeant in command.Again, more profanity.

    Comment by Jim Downs — December 11, 2012 @ 8:01 pm

  806. I went to the ‘bird twice – first time was for the 96B course in 1966 – had pretty much the same experience as many of the other commenters – checked in on a Friday and then was told “See you Monday.” Could not hardly believe it! Went to Vietnam after that and worked at CICV with the 519th MI Bn. Ended up at Holabird again in ’68 for the 97B course – did a short stint on the Field Training Exercise (FTX) staff and then they sent me to Italy – that was great! Anyway, Merry Christmas everybody!

    Comment by Alex Drinkwater — December 16, 2012 @ 2:48 pm

  807. I remember making a couple of extra bucks pushing cars up the hill east of Holabird and Dundalk Ave during the “Snow Emergency” And there was the “Snow Removal Team A” details…. Oh what great fun at the Bird. This was during the winter of 63-64.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — December 19, 2012 @ 3:11 pm

  808. I remember the snow storm as well. i was part of the Snow Removal Team A, and having to uncover the cars from under the snow so the permanate parties, professors, etc could get out. that was cold, but not nearly as cold as Korea. what a great place to go to serve our country, get a good education, and have a lot of fun. j. bone

    Comment by JAMES H. BONE — December 19, 2012 @ 5:35 pm

  809. This is Christmas 2012. I was at Holibird in 1967, a bad snow storm came in right after the 25th and grid locked the area. Thank god for the Holibird Inn, I wworked there and got all the food and class VI I needed. Christmas 1972 I was in Siagon,at McCarrack Compound, working with the Siagon Field Office. We even were part of the security detail for Bob Hope’s Christmas Special. Fellow intel guys being away from home during the holidays is hard, but you made indelable friends during these periods…TC

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 24, 2012 @ 12:52 am

  810. Happy New Year fellow Holabird grads! 44 years since I was there – a place that helped change my life and it’s course.

    All the best for 2013!

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — December 29, 2012 @ 5:37 am

  811. Happy New Year to all who passed through the gates at Holabird. I agree with post 810, it helped change my life’s course beginning in 68.

    Comment by Vince Cavallo — January 1, 2013 @ 11:53 am

  812. Gee folks here it is almost nine years after my first post (#10) on 2/12/2004) and still waiting to hear from someone I served with at Holabird. This is real optimism. I hear the “sand running down”. Keep posting and a healthy and happy 2014.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — January 1, 2013 @ 6:26 pm

  813. Sorry that’s a “one” and not a ten in 812.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 1, 2013 @ 6:27 pm

  814. My best wishes for a happy, healthy and prosperous new year to those who stop by this place.

    Jim
    Parkway Rest Stop
    96C2L29

    Comment by Jim — January 1, 2013 @ 8:32 pm

  815. #814 Thanks Jim and all who visit this site a secure new year for our Country.Thanks for the good memories from our fellow contributors.

    Ed Hotchkiss
    Post #187

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — January 2, 2013 @ 7:07 pm

  816. Jim #814

    I just realized (although I’ve read your original post a few times) that you too are a 96C2L29. I haven’t seen any others here. Did you get an assignment in Germany? I was in Berlin, 66th MI Group, attached to 18th MI Bn. at JROC.

    Would love to know if you were in BRD then.

    best regards,

    Gary

    Yes, I was with the 511th MI Company (which was in Fuerth), stationed at the Passau BRO from April 69 through December 70. Beautiful city, that.

    Best regards,
    Jim
    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by gdmbrd — January 3, 2013 @ 4:52 pm

  817. Happy New Year to everyone!

    To Jim a big thank you for starting and tending “Parkway Rest Stop”. I’ve spent numerous hours reading and re-reading the comments from everybody. It has been time well-spent.

    Manny – Good luck in finding someone who served at Holabird with you. Just curious – Did you hear about the training accident on the infiltration course at Fort Knox? I was in that company a few yards from the guy who was injured.

    Comment by Bob Fox — January 3, 2013 @ 9:26 pm

  818. Jim #816

    Passau is indeed beautiful with great access to Austria, etc. I bet a lot of refugees coming through your outfit ended up coming to see us at JROC also.

    We were in Germany at the same time. Did you guys get time off in December 69 to see the Bob Hope USO Show in Berlin?

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — January 5, 2013 @ 7:38 am

  819. I was at Holibird from Nov 66 to Apr 1967. Was stationed in Wash DC until Sept 1967. Vietnam with the 525th 3rd Ba. from Nov 67 to Jan 1969 then 1st inf from jan 1969 to july 1969. Served with Gary Kocheler who waqs killed in the twin towers. Alan Graffam was the CO with the 1st division.
    This site brings back some memories.

    Comment by James Weeks — January 5, 2013 @ 3:47 pm

  820. Bob(#817),

    Does not ring a bell. Was this in early 1955? I vaugely remember something about someone standing up during the infltration course but type of story has many lives and may or may not have occured.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 6, 2013 @ 2:38 pm

  821. A question for CIC Vietnam vets: Were they taking draftees or did CIC candidates have to enlist? What percentage were the young enlisted college graduates?
    In the 1952-56 era, there was a large number of people with advanced college degrees and Ivy League backgrounds. A large number of Mormons who had language skills also. Was it the same in ’65 to ’75?

    Comment by Jim Downs — January 7, 2013 @ 3:27 pm

  822. I had to volunteer for M.I. At the time they wanted college grads but dropped that requirement as they needed more bodies. You did have to take a written exam and appear before a board of CI people for an interview. It seemed to me most of the people I served with were college grads.

    Comment by James Weeks — January 7, 2013 @ 8:11 pm

  823. I did not know of any agents that were drafted. This was for the Vietnam period.

    Comment by James Weeks — January 7, 2013 @ 8:13 pm

  824. Was in Army from August 70 to August 73. Enlisted under duress. At the Bird from about October 70 to March 71. Average education level for enlistees about 15 years, although many of us, such as I, had at least one or more years of graduate or law school. All had some college. My recruiter said OCS would never get MI. Met a high school buddy at the Bird who was freash out of OCS and said everyone who picked MI in top three got it. Damn recruiter. Can’t complain, 30 months in civilian clothes in Frankfurt.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — January 8, 2013 @ 9:08 pm

  825. #821 Jim

    I was drafted in 68, took a German language test during Basic at Ft. Ord and was assigned to Holabird as a 96C2L29 ( interrogator ) immediately after basic. I did sign a form called “Intent to Re-enlist” in order to get the job, and had 2years of college already.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — January 10, 2013 @ 4:48 pm

  826. #825 Gary

    I graduated from college in June, 1968 and was drafted in December that same year. I also took the German test in Basic Training, in my case at Fort Dix. I’ve written about the surreal testing experience here:
    http://www.parkwayreststop.com/archives/32

    I was sent directly to Fort Holabird (see above) after basic training and was told that I was a 96C2L29. I had heard that all the interrogators in the classes before mine went to Vietnam, so I figured that’s where I was headed. As it happened, all the German (and Slavic language)speakers were sent to Germany, the Korean speakers were sent to Korea, and we had one Italian speaker, and he was sent to Italy. The guys who spoke French and the guys who were not foreign language qualified, I believe, all went to Fort Hood. From there, I suspect they wound up in Vietnam, but I don’t know that for sure.

    I did not have to sign an “Intent to Re-enlist,” but I was interviewed by several people at Fort Holabird before the classes commenced.

    Yes, we were in Germany at the same time, but I did not get to Berlin. Traveling there was a major hassle.

    Regards,
    Jim
    Parkway Rest Stop
    http://parkwayreststop.com

    Comment by Jim — January 10, 2013 @ 6:53 pm

  827. An interesting note. I was fluent in German so I stayed at Holabird. No one asked me so I didn’t tell (the beginning of Clinton’s “don’t ask, don’t tell”)? I guess it made more sense to train and send you guys. Lucky for you I guess The Army works in wonderous ways.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 11, 2013 @ 3:58 pm

  828. JIM; RE; THE LAST FEW INPUTS ABOUT PEOPLE BEING ‘DRAFTED’ INTO THE INTC. AS I HAVE STATED BEDFORE, I WAS DRAFTED INTO THE ARMY IN APRIL 1963. I WAS 23 YEARS OLD. ABOUT MID WAY OR SO IN BASIC AT FORT POLK, WAS APPROACHED TO GO TO INTEL. SCHOOL BUT HAD TO EXTEND MY ACTIVE DUTY ANOTHER 11 MONTHS, WHICH I DID NOT KNOWING WHAT OTHER PLANS THE ARMY HAD FOR ME. BEST I FIGURED, 2O YEARS PRIOR TO 1963 WAS 1943 AND POSSIBLY THE INTEL. CORPS WAS LOSING MANY AGENTS WHO PUT IN 20 AND WERE GETTING OUT. AM I CLOSE IN MY REASONING? BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — January 11, 2013 @ 7:57 pm

  829. From September 1965 to May 1968 I processed all incoming students to Ft Holabird. The Agents classes and the MI Coordinators classes were filled by enlistees. The Image Interpretation classes and Interrogators classes were filled with draftees and a few Enlistees.

    Comment by bill — January 11, 2013 @ 11:22 pm

  830. I ponder how come you labeled this particular blog, “Parkway Rest Stop » Fort
    Holabird or the Twilight Zone?”. In any event
    . I appreciated the post!Regards-Cary

    Comment by http://tinyurl.com/elecplatt38218 — January 12, 2013 @ 2:26 am

  831. #829 Bill,

    I was probably in-processed by your replacement then? I arrived in August of 1968.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — January 12, 2013 @ 6:54 am

  832. #826 Jim,

    That is exactly what happened in our class also. The foreign language qualified guys were assigned to countries where they could use their language. We had 4 guys in our class not language qualified and they went to Hood for a crash course in Vietnamese.

    Too bad you didn’t get to Berlin, but you are right – it was a hassle getting in and out. Movement orders were required and you could only get there by flying Pan Am in, or taking the Duty Train. Great city though!

    Did you by chance know an interrogator with Magyar language skills by the name of Ross Hilton?

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — January 12, 2013 @ 7:10 am

  833. #830

    Yes Gary, you would have been processed by my replacement (his name escapes me). We worked for the S-2 and would have checked for your security clearance. If you didn’t have one, we would begin an investigation. A full “Background Investigation” for a TS clearance (for the Agent or Coordinator course) or a ” National Agency Check” for a SECRET clearance for all the other courses. You would be held out of class until your security clearance was issued or validated.

    Comment by bill — January 12, 2013 @ 11:46 pm

  834. #829 Bill, from Sept 63 to Apr 66 I was a lead writer in the G-2 office at USAINTC in the building attached to the East end of the CRF.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 13, 2013 @ 8:17 pm

  835. Manny (#820)

    Yes, the mishap was in early to middle January, 1955. They told us before hand “Don’t stand up.” During the night go at the course, one of the machine guns was not operating as it should have. The guy was hit by a ricocheting round. He was lying on his back in the dark, looking up into the rain, using his M-1 to hold the barbed wire off him, just as I was. When they stopped firing and turned on the lights, one of the first things we heard was “He stood up”. It soon became obvious that he had not.

    Comment by Bob Fox — January 13, 2013 @ 9:33 pm

  836. Dan, Up until September 1965, USAINTC issued the security clearances for the students and permanent party at the school. In September, they made a separate group, USAINTS and they set up the S-2 for the school. They sent a civilian woman from USAINTC to help us. After that, we issued and validated all the clearances for the students and the permanent party. Our office was in Troop Command on the first floor of the student barracks building. S-1, Personnel was also on the first floor.

    Did you live in the barracks (bays)? Most of USAINTS people lived on the third floor.

    Comment by bill — January 13, 2013 @ 10:21 pm

  837. Here is the MI History File. The street signs are on page 10.
    http://huachuca-www.army.mil/files/History_MI_Catalog.pdf

    Comment by bill — January 13, 2013 @ 10:57 pm

  838. Bill, I lived in the HQ Company barracks across the street from the CRF. I lived on the second floor on the east wing until I made E-5, then I lived in a 2 man room on the ground floor on the west side. HQ Barracks was on the other side of the tracks from the Student Barracks. I believe my travel orders from USAINTS to USAINTC gave me 15 minutes to make the transition.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 14, 2013 @ 10:15 am

  839. Dan, we lived in the same building at the same time. I was on the third floor until I made E-5 also then moved into a 2 man room on the third floor. I used to go into CRF (later IRR) every day to read the dossiers and to check on open investigations of new students or personnel. I had a great job, very interesting.

    Comment by bill — January 14, 2013 @ 11:50 pm

  840. Bill, do you remember who the 1st shirt was that was always trying to have 100% turnout for company rollcall? He never did understand that some were attached and not assigned or not assigned but attached. And some us always had “need to know” duties on;y when he tried to have a mandatory rollcall. 🙂

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 15, 2013 @ 2:42 pm

  841. Dan, I remember him trying but they couldn’t even get us (USAINTS) to clean the barracks. For a while, our CO told them to stop giving us KP, we were too busy getting the students through the school. I was on the Honor Guard for graduating classes so I got out of extra duty anyway.

    The only time we had formation was on Saturday mornings after MLK was assassinated and the Post started a “riot control group”. We marched around and they threw tear-gas at us so we would be ready for the real thing. Half of the people falling out had civilian clothes on. It didn’t last too long.

    What a great place to serve 3 years. It was more like a college campus.

    Comment by bill — January 15, 2013 @ 3:01 pm

  842. Bill, the “college campus” reference made me crack-up. That weas the statement the two CI agants used in recruiting me. I grew up in Spokane, WA and had never been further east than Missoula, MT. I went to school at Gonzaga U in Spokane. They claimed Ft Holabird was just like a college campus; and, in fact, there was a stream running through the post. Now my image of a stream and the sight of Colgate Creek never did mess. And then there was the wonderful smells of Holabird; Federal Yeast to the south and Seagram’s to the east.

    But having said that, it was still was a ton of fun!

    Oh I remember the how they tried to get us to form the ERF (Emergency Relief Force).

    I also recall that once and only once they sent us to Ft Meade to qualify with the M-1. Not a shot was fired, but we did dull some pencil points as we marked our targets. Every “soldier” in the group qualified “expert”. ‘Twas amazing. And … our rifles were spotless before we even got near the cleaning equipment.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 15, 2013 @ 5:33 pm

  843. Bill / Dan,

    Speaking of the aromaof Holabird, wasn’t there also a GM plant nearby? Marching across the Colgate creek bridge, I always worried that if a cigarette fell in, the creek would burst into flames!

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — January 16, 2013 @ 6:36 pm

  844. Yes Gary, you are correct. Fisher Body, Chevrolet Truck was across Broening Highway to the west of the Bird. Speaking of marching across the Colgate … did our class ever get the bridge moving up and down in rhythm just to bug the in-charge types?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 16, 2013 @ 7:08 pm

  845. I toured the GM assembly plant 3 or 4 times and after every tour, I swore I would never buy a new car. It looked like they were making toys.

    Comment by bill — January 17, 2013 @ 12:49 am

  846. Dan –

    Didn’t everyone do that just to bug the higher-ups? When we were walking to or from classes, that was the only time everyone was really in cadence!

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — January 17, 2013 @ 8:05 am

  847. I never toured the GM Plant … but I did go to work for Lever Bros that was just down the road from Holabird. Hmmm … wonder if I was trying not to fly to far from the nest???

    Nah!

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 17, 2013 @ 10:42 am

  848. Reading about background checks etc. in the above posts I was pulled out of my basic training course(Fort Bragg) in the summer of 1967 to be interviewed by CI agents who were doing my background check for a TS clearance before me going to Holabird for training. Seems I had listed an avowed active communist as one of my five personal references. She was a neighbor Professor of History at the University of Pennsylvania who I barely new but thought would look good as a reference. The CI agent kicked the Basic Training Captain (a Basic trainee’s God) out of his office for the interview with me which was impressive at the time. After questioning he realized I was to young and naive and uninformed and obviously to stupid to realize the impact of listing a commie but sent the report on to Holabird I suppose. I have always wondered who made the decision to grant me the TS clearance after that fiasco. Anyone one on the list above??

    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — January 18, 2013 @ 2:37 pm

  849. My dad (MSGT John R. (Bob) Dietzel, he pronounced it Ditzel) was stationed there long enough for mom to have 3 of us 6 kids. 1954-1960? I was born at Ft.Meade so I tell people I was a Top Secret baby. When someone gets it I know they at least pay attention to the world.

    I was born in 1956 and we shipped out to Augsburg, Germany in time for me to start kindergarten. My older siblings went to elementary and junior high while we were there. Cub and Boy Scouts, Little League and Junior Marksman.

    Mom is Virginia (87 and still truckin’) she served on committees for school selection and NCO-Officer wives liaising. She and dad sang in the church choir. Kids, John, Chuck, Janet, Ruth, me (Dick) and the baby Maryjean.

    I believe dad was with the Adjutant General’s office at least he was in Germany with the 24th Inf.

    I know John and Chuck (now Charles) would be interested in anyone who knew them and mom would get a kick out of any info.

    Comment by Richard Dietzel — January 18, 2013 @ 3:20 pm

  850. Daryl, in my time in the G-2’s office when we were the control office for BIs for the school if we turned any negative information from a source we 2 additional developed interviews to either refute or substantiate the information before any adjudication took place. That meant the agent would have to develop 2 more interviews from sources he obtained. So one bad source did not preclude a clearance. Bil in #836 may have more information because his office was handling the BI for student in the time frame you mentioned.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 18, 2013 @ 8:12 pm

  851. Daryl, Dan is right, my boss, the S-2 Officer for USAINTS would have issued your TS clearance after reviewing your dossier in the summer of 1967.

    Comment by bill — January 18, 2013 @ 11:08 pm

  852. Thanks Dan and Bill and whoever the S-2 officer was. I am still glad to have had the Holabird experience.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — January 21, 2013 @ 4:02 pm

  853. OK guys and gals, it has been quiet here for 6 days. Time to wake up the troops. Does anyone remember “C Ration” day at HQ Company mess or Sunday morning breakfast at the same mess? I know that this isn’t exactly spook stuff but it fits with Holabird’s reputation as being in the Army’s twilight zone.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 27, 2013 @ 12:16 pm

  854. Dan,

    I don’t remember C Ration Day or Sunday breakfast. I met a local girl from Sparrows Point and after partying at either Judges or Hollywood Park on Saturdays , I’d get Sunday breakfast at her place….:-) Since we are on “non-spook” stuff today, were you by chance at the Bird when CSNY played at the Baltimore Convention Center? Must have been about Nov. 68

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — January 27, 2013 @ 8:14 pm

  855. I don’t recall any of this C Ration Day or Sunday breakfast. But I do recall Easter Sunday 1968. A General or some title like that had to be on the base that weekend and we had a great meal on Easter. I recall it because I never thought the military ever had a meal so nice. I was a student in early to mid 1968 when most agents got sent to Fort Sam Houston for the 52 week Vietnamese language classes. I got sent out to train for the 68 games with the all=army track team and later spent my remaining time with the 115th MI Grp in Los Angeles. BI, Bring Up and SIS investigations, what a joy. But I’ll never forget that Easter at Holibird.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — January 28, 2013 @ 9:03 pm

  856. Dan,
    I remember the “C” ration days. Salmon and Peas was the worst for me. Sundays were the lazy days for the cooks. We had a simple a lunch and just sandwiches for dinner. Overall, the mess hall had very good food. The cooks were so good, we used to hire them for the company cookouts in the summer.

    I didn’t get to see CSNY but in 1967 I won tickets to see Woody Allen (a young stand-up at that time) Tony Bennett (The main reason I went) and a very drunk Judy Garland (she was dead not too long after) at the Civic Center.

    My best friend was from Buffalo and I was from Boston so when the Buffalo Sabre’s were playing the Baltimore Clippers (AHL) we would go to the games. When the Celtics were playing the Baltimore Bullets, we would go to the games. When the Red Sox were playing the Orioles, we would go to the games. Back then, you could buy tickets on game day and they were reasonably priced.

    I got to see my first NFL game at Memorial Stadium. We only had the AFL in Boston at the time.

    As I said in an earlier post, what a great way to spend my three years in the army.
    Sorry this post was so long.

    Comment by bill — January 30, 2013 @ 12:10 am

  857. Well I was at the Bird from June 1963 to April 1966. My memory of C Ration day in the summer at the HQ USAINTC mess was grilled to order steaks and served through the windows of the mess hall. Every Sunday breakfast was a made to order omelet. If you ordered on with everything it filled the plate. The rumor was that the mess Sgt sold the C Rations to Baltimore boy scouts and bought the steaks from the commissary. I remember them as being very tasty. But then that memory is almost 50 years old.

    My wife remembers going to the James Bond movie on base with me. The admission was 25 cents. And she got a good laugh out of the running commentary from the audience of spooks in training!

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 31, 2013 @ 12:04 am

  858. Re:857;Dan Ritchie. You are the first person that has mentioned being at the Bird when I was there for agent school From June to Dec. 1963. Class 64B2a. You must remember this class due to two-thirds of it failed mainly due to not completeing a required security survey of the whole fort area. Fortunately I was in the right third! We had a very good typist who made a excellent detailed report to turn in. Of course, all of us still had to pass the other tests also. Wish I had a list of all the other guys on our team but alas, do not.Another thing I remember is the one time I pulled KP duty. My job: making a gigantic apple cobbler pie. Like using about ten laarge cans of apples, eight or more boxes of brown sugar; lots of flour,cinnamon,etc.Other than having to get up early it was almost fun! Also around Thanksgiving there was a case of someone ccoming down with spinal-miningitus & our bay area was quarantined for a couple of days. Our meals were brought to us at our bunks! Guess you probably dont recall any of this. I did see “DR.NO” at the post theater also. Ben Burt

    Comment by ben burt — February 1, 2013 @ 9:18 pm

  859. Dan / Bert

    Was the theater actually on post? I have always been a movie-goer, but don ‘t recall going to one at the Bird?

    Thanks – Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — February 2, 2013 @ 6:44 am

  860. Dan / Ben

    Sorry, meant Dan and Ben above.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — February 2, 2013 @ 6:45 am

  861. Gary,
    The theater was in the block east of the parade field. The chapel, library and theater were all on that block.
    Dan

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 2, 2013 @ 11:51 am

  862. Ben,

    The story of the “failed security survey” does ring some bells. I was off to Germany from October thru November in ’63. That was my overseas tour. The rest of my enlistment I spent at the “Battle of Colgate Creek”

    Dan

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 2, 2013 @ 11:54 am

  863. Gary, I posted a home movie of the post on FaceBook and it opens with a view of the post theatore.
    I think this will work. The first 18 sec. are blank then it starts.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqmCVoEjsWY

    Comment by bill — February 2, 2013 @ 7:37 pm

  864. Bill,

    Wow – that brings back some memories! Thanks so much for posting that!
    Colgate Creek even looked nasty in the film.

    What a great place to learn our trades back then and an experience I will never forget. I was a 96C and I wonder if anyone remembers our “final test” at the end of the interrogators course?

    Thanks again Bill,

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — February 2, 2013 @ 8:22 pm

  865. I wish I took more video but I only had a crappy 8mm windup camera.

    I’m pretty sure that the missing 18 seconds in the beginning was a clip I filmed of the sign on the fence around CRF. The sign warned not to take any pictures of the building. I only filmed the sign but I guess they thought that would qualify. I wonder if it ended up in my dossier 🙂

    Comment by bill — February 2, 2013 @ 11:57 pm

  866. Bill,

    I wonder if our dossiers still exist?

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — February 5, 2013 @ 5:22 pm

  867. Bill (#866),

    I tried to retrieve my security clearance dossier without luck. They told me they were destroyed after so many years (I forgot how many).

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 5, 2013 @ 5:48 pm

  868. I was told the same. Too long ago. I would have loved to see what was in there. (or maybe not)!

    Comment by bill — February 6, 2013 @ 12:12 am

  869. After graduating from the U of H, then basic at Ft Dix, I was assigned to Ft Holabird’s CDC – Combat Development Command, as an 81E20 (Illustrator) from November 1965 to April 1966 before reassignment to (UTIC), the Tech Intel Center, USAREUR Heidelberg until 1968. I had an interesting duty at Ft. Holabird, creating secret and top secret training manuals for the “Spook School”, and for reports on new weaponry, tactics, software, and materiel which were prepared and presented to the Pentagon by the officers assigned to CDC. I worked with full birds, light birds, captains and a few lieutenants with whom we fraternized. They were very informal and not condescending in any way. Had a good time in Baltimore associating with my former college classmates who were attending graduate school at the Maryland Art Institute. A few of the young lieutenants my age were always happy when I invited them to the Institutes’s parties, which were usually pretty wild, and about as crazy as your typical “state institute”!
    I was pretty lucky to be reassigned to Heidelberg, where eventually I was in charge of an illustrating department that produced technical manuals analyzing Communist ICBM’s, weapons, equipment and materiel. I was also proud to receive a commendation from General Polk for developing what the Army referred to as “Tarpology Intelligence”, helping to identify strategic and tactical weaponry from the Soviet Bloc Nations which were introduced into battle in Viet Nam. I was extremely happy to discover that this program was responsible for saving some lives of my fellow GI’s.

    Comment by Bill O — February 6, 2013 @ 3:52 pm

  870. Bill(869),

    Thanks for the post. My MOS was also “illustrator”, now at least I know we had an MOS but I somehow remember it as “811)? Perhaps they changed it to fool the bad guys.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 7, 2013 @ 4:47 pm

  871. Dossiers were for the most part very boring. Unless you happened to do a records check on a common name and didn’t furnish an exact birthdate. I did that once, paid for it by having to go through a 3 tiered cart full of dossiers that pertained to the Communist Party of the US. Great reading for the first couple of files but aftr that …. just get throught them to finish my report and get on with the growing stack of cases.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 10, 2013 @ 2:52 pm

  872. The good ones were in the Vault.

    Comment by bill — February 11, 2013 @ 3:55 pm

  873. Message 872

    Bill. The Vault. I have this recollection of helping to destroy lots of classified records at the Bird (shred, burn then stir the ashes) from WW II. Was this the Vault?

    Dave

    Comment by David Edmonds — February 11, 2013 @ 4:30 pm

  874. My recollection of the Vault was a wire enclosure inside the CRF.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 11, 2013 @ 5:55 pm

  875. I remember a wire enclosure with a number of teletype machines in CRF. The Vault that I am referring to was just outside the huge room containing most of the dossiers. There was a civilian woman in charge of the Vault and if she thought you had the “need to know”, she would let you read it inside the room. I don’t know who determined which dossier was considered to be worthy of the vault. If you had access to CRF, your dossier was in the Vault and you couldn’t see it.

    Comment by bill — February 11, 2013 @ 11:54 pm

  876. Hey, Bill, thanks for the neat story–it brought back many memories of my (interesting and fun) time at Fort Holabird, Like you, I was an “L29” (German, and also Russian). I only used my Russian once on duty, to identify some strange material that showed up in the U.S. Customs House basement in Baltimore (our office was in that building). With a background in organic chemistry, I identified it as some harmless monomer for making things out of plastic. I was a “Special Agent, Counterintelligence,” wearing a suit and tie, carrying a badge and credentials, and investigating military and civilian personnel applying for security clearances. Later. by a “stateside swap” with a guy in the Dallas office, same rank and time-in-grade, I transferred back to Dallas, and he to Baltimore (he had an ailing mother in New York and wanted to be near her), and I left Baltimore–a dirty, polluted and congested city like the ones I grew up in as a boy–and landed back in Dallas, at that time a clean, modern, UNpolluted city. I was ecstatic! I saw my old frat brothers and fellow students at SMU, who were astounded, saying, “Calhoun, I thought you were in the ARMY!” “I am, ” I replied casually, gloating. “I’m working.” Boy, THAT got ’em interested, because most of them were terrified of going to “the ‘Nam.” And that’s how I spent my time in the service, during the worst war in our history. Oh, yeah, just before I got discharged and applied for (and got) a direct commission as a 2LT in the Reserve, in case they ever called me back (they didn’t). Boy, was God looking out for me, or WHAT!!??!!. Yours in Christ,

    John Calhoun, SSGT/RA18741996, then 2LT/05442090
    2819 W. Woodford Ave.,
    Fort Collins. CO 80521-2149
    jcalhoun333@gmail.com

    Comment by John Calhoun — February 12, 2013 @ 4:09 pm

  877. RE; 876; JOHN CALHOUN. OUT OF CURIOSITY; IF YOU DONT MIND MY ASKING; WHAT YEAR OR YEARS DID YOU WORK OUT OF THE DALLAS OFFICE; HOW BIG A STAFF WAS THERE; CASE-LOAD; DID YOU HAPPEN TO EVER MEET A JACK. WERNER;S/A;WHO MAY HAVE BEEN A W/O THEN. MY HOMETOWN IS FORT WORTH WHERE I NOW RESIDE AFTER MY ARMY STINT. LIKE I SAID; JUST CURIOUS. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — February 12, 2013 @ 7:11 pm

  878. Has any body run into George Ayers who was with the 1st inf MID detachment in Vietnam about 1969? If so where?

    Comment by James Weeks — February 16, 2013 @ 11:46 am

  879. Stationed at USAINTS at Fort Holabird for two years-1861-63. Early days of marriage–now 52 years going. Adopted our daughter while there. Served in the Office of the Director of Instruction. I was an assistant scoutmaster and later scoutmaster of Troop 486, the Fort Holabird Boy Scout troop. Have many fond memories of Fort Holabird and living in Baltimore. Thanks for sharing your memories.

    Comment by William F Bellais — February 18, 2013 @ 11:45 am

  880. Yhat’s 1961-63. I am not that old and I don’t think Fort Holabird was a post in the Civil War. Sorry about the error.

    Comment by William F Bellais — February 18, 2013 @ 11:46 am

  881. Just learned of this site. Very interesting. I passed through the Bird a couple of time, first for the INTC Officer Basic and 9666 in 1965, then the Advance Course and 9668 after I returned from a year in Korea as CO of the 7th MI Det. Then I went on to the 116th in Washington, DC, then, circumstances being what they were, I left AD in July, 40 days shy of promotion to 04. Got that, plus 05 and 06 in the National Guard, and retired in December 1990. If you were there with me, or on staff in those days, you may remember that while in the 9668 Course there was a group of us (we called ourselves the AgitProp Committee) who created awards for staff and others we liked (I recall for the Horst of a Different Color), and even for those we didn’t like. One instructor let it be known that we hadn’t given him anything. He wasn’t a fan of ours, so one day we came in early and drew a huge award in colored chalk on the magnetic blackboard (which he always used for a million ‘slap sticks’), then we closed the outer boards. When he came in he opened the panels, read his award, then had to erase it! Contact – smberg@erols.com

    Comment by Mike Berger — February 18, 2013 @ 12:31 pm

  882. My name is Don Knutson. I arrived at Fort Fumble in January 1958 and after a few days, a huge snow storm blanketed Baltimore. We peons were all issued snow shovels and shoveled some of the main streets of the post. Being a Minnesota boy, it boggled my mind at the lack of snow plows. After that, the 97B course was a snap, and I graduated on 10 May 1958. Stayed in and retired November 1977. My badge number was #182 (honest). Served a few tours in CONUS, plus Korea (201st MID), Germany (513th INTC Gp w/iaison to CIA) and Viet Nam (5th Special Forces Group), where I escaped with my tail feathers intact. Nice website; interesting. knutsond@comcast.net

    Comment by Don Knutson — February 18, 2013 @ 12:43 pm

  883. Wow. Basic at Ft Ord knowing that I would go to Holabird. Great 97B course SeptoDec’64. Almost got dropped due to a terrible first interview with the Italian who was not Al Strapelli. Made it. Got assigned to Indian-no-place with FO at Ft Ben Harrison. Lived in Indy, great duty, tons of sweet young things getting records for me.
    Bored volunteered for Korea, denied. No denying Viet Nam. Selected Can Tho in the delta for lack of military activity. Great duty. Was good friends with our translator Tang bao Can about my age. I have since made contact with Can who suffered greatly in re-education camp. He finally escaped. I took my family to Viet Nam in 1991 for foster son’s arranged wedding.
    Returned to the Bird on the FTX committee. On one training exercise with SF group at Ft Howard one of our guys was giving SF guy a bad time. Our guy started walking away and the SF guy told him to halt or he would shoot. Our guy didn’t SF guy did. They had blanks in their rifles and our guy took a wad that brusied his kidney.
    Great place and great times. I visit Ft Huachuca a couple of years ago for the INTC school. No way to teach surveilance there. You gotta hide behind the cactus. jaoarm@aol.com

    Comment by John O'Neal — February 18, 2013 @ 12:52 pm

  884. From about June 1952 – about Apr 55 I was a Army civilian clerical at the CIC School, Research & Development Dept which meant typing the textbooks for the school; writers were assigned to that dept. Also worked awhile at the Secretary of School office, and lastly as receptionist to the new school building until about June 1955 – Dec 1957 I worked at the Munich Field Office of the 66th CIC Gp/later known as the 7915th Group. Fascinating years for a young unattached female. My girlfriends and I loved going to the enlisted men’s service club at Holabird Wed. evenings and met lots of very nice young men; some married the short-term warriors of that cold war era. I have memories of great CIC people, some from Munich years I still am in contact with. I lived in the Charles Village part of Baltimore with my wonderful parents until I married in Dec 58, to a Boeing employee and have lived in Seattle WA to this day of Feb 2013. Greetings and good wishes to all!!! We were a tight group almost like a family group!

    Comment by rita schaub range — February 18, 2013 @ 12:59 pm

  885. Just found this site by reference in a friend’s email. I was there as captain in the agent handler course Jan – May 1967. I have relatively fond memories of the training and “Balimer,” but can’t for the life of me remember the names of any colleagues–which I deeply regret. If anyone wants to share memories, feel free to contact me at bdsutton@centurytel.net. I spent 37 years in intel work after this–in the Army and CIA.
    Boyd Sutton

    Comment by Boyd Sutton — February 18, 2013 @ 3:16 pm

  886. RE 883, John, I was at Fort Holabird when the SF guy shot the FTX guy with a blank. I was just telling my son about it the other night. They also broke another FTX guys arm during interrogation. They really did get carried away sometimes. I lived with some FTX people in the barracks back in 1965-1968 but I can’t remember their names.

    Comment by bill — February 18, 2013 @ 3:26 pm

  887. December 1946, Holabird Signal Depot: first, fill out a pink form (PHS of 1,000 pages, or so it seemed). What does CIC mean? You will be told in due time! Visit E Balto Street until class started in Jan in a warehouse without heat, but with ankle deep water. What memories! Thanks for the web.

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 18, 2013 @ 3:48 pm

  888. What an experience to read the stories of so many ex-CICers in one group of comments! I found only a couple of references to people and places during my era, so I’ll add my comments. While serving what turned out to be six months in a reserve MP unit, I interviewed in St. Paul, MN, for an enlistment in the Army of the U.S. with the stipulation that after successfully completing 16 weeks of basic, I would be assigned to the CIC school at Ft. Holabird for 16 weeks of training there. I arrived at Holabird in July 1952. I had taken my travel time from basic to get married and brought my new wife to “The Bird” with me. As a lowly E-2 we could not live on the post, so we found a second floor of a row-house in Dundalk. In the summer, it was a very hot place to try to live and sleep. While others who were waiting for a class had to do menial chores, I noticed a sign on a bulletin board that the post was looking for a lifeguard at the officer’s pool. Because I had a WSI and three years as a water front director at a summer camp, I got the job. Another guy and I guarded mostly officers’ wives and their children and kept the pool and its water clean. As a married student, I missed a lot of the “campus” chores but did have to show up for the once a week “housecleaning” and brass polishing of the brass stair rails. Again, I had to show up for the weekly Friday afternoon dress parades…agonizing. The dress for classes and other duties was the typical army fatigues, kept pressed, of course, with polished boots. Being married I did not partake of the bars unless accompanied by my escort. My wife worked for the Community Chest so we had a little extra money to go out on occasion. We went to the post movie theatre for “cheap” movies and to stay out of the house where we slept on the floor for some comfort. Because I had a newspaper background the courses were not very tough and the typing came easy. I finished the course in early December 1952 and was assigned to the Canal Zone along with John Owens. We traveled on military air transport out of Brookley AFB in Mobile, AL, and arrived as civilian employees of the Department of the Army 26 Dec 1952. In the CZ the CIC functioned as the FBI. We also worked on the army bases. And I recall how surprised I was that another lowly enilisted buddy of mine and I were tapped to do a security inspection of the mighty command post of the U.S. Caribbean Command in Quarry Heights, a very secure facility within a very big hill. Our work was background investigations for security clearances and complaint investigations. All the time we were there we were in civilian clothes until the day we left when I put on my uniform to return home as a sergeant. We did get to fly back to Benning for discharge. A few years ago, I wrote a book, “Christ I’m Confused” which tells of my experiences through a series of chapter anecdotes. If you’re interested, please contact me. I can’t think of a better way to spend time in the military than in the Canal Zone during the days when the U.S. pretty much ran the country. My basic training friends drew Korea and Germany, while I got the “soft” duty with nobody shooting at me. Keep the comments coming. And if anyone knows Bob “Fitz” Fitzpatric, Oscar H. Gillespie Jr., Joe Peshek, Hwenry Lopez, John S. Davis, Edmund A. Dicenzo or William H. Ryan, please have them contact me at daredie@yahyoo.com. Thanks

    Comment by Duane A. Rasmussen — February 18, 2013 @ 6:02 pm

  889. In June ’53 completed basic at FT Jackson; got married on 4 Jul, reported to Holabird on 5 Jul; completed Basic Investigations course Dec 53. Assigned to 11 th ABN CIC, transferred th 82d ABN CIC September ’54, discharded from AD Feb 56. Served in various reserve units, commanded 362d MI Det, later 268th MI Det. Retired 31 Jul 88 – Colonel o6, AUS. Also retired as
    Chief US Probation Officer, (ED/VA) 31 Jul 85. 40 years in MI, a great and rewarding experience…

    Comment by BILL TORRANS — February 18, 2013 @ 7:19 pm

  890. I was at Fort Holabird from Mar 55 thru Aug55 in Student Det 8579th DU (Detached Unit) Training Gp B-315 for CIC Officer Basic and Investigations Course and was pleased to find the previous posts and to learn the variety of ways others came to pass through Holabird that differed from mine. I have extracted a number of items (Holabird Guide, photos and historical material) from my collection – including a description of the interrogation I was given upon arrival at Holabird on page 44) at this link:

    http://www.waynedow.net/pdffiles/extract4.pdf

    Having had six years of ROTC in high school and college learning to be a Quartermaster officer, I was recruited while still in college to enlist as a Cpl (E4) in the ready reserves (H/H CO 1st BN 363rd Inf Regt), to incur an eight year obligation that I faced anyway as an ROTC graduate, and to request assignment to the 927th CIC Det (as a CI Agent, MOS 1301) by its CO, an insurance executive in San Francisco. At the time of my graduation the Army was overstocked with QM officers, so, logically, they commissioned me in the Military Police Corps. I went to work for a travel agency while waiting to be called to active duty, expecting to be sent to Fort Gordon GA for MP officer’s basic. Through the efforts of my CO, I was instead sent to Holabird.

    While my wife finished college in CA, as a married officer I lived off-post initially in the basement of a Dundalk residence (until the cockroaches took control of my room) and then, after my wife joined me, in a very hot, upstairs apartment in a Dundalk row-house that backed up to a low-income housing project that was “active” 24 hours a day. My daily walk to the post through the Polish cemetery and past a flank of unfriendly dogs was memorable. As were the icy conditions during weapons and map reading training at Aberdeen on the edge of Chesapeake Bay in early April.

    I only wore my uniform twice after I left Holabird – once for a three day TDY assignment to Camp McCoy WI, instructing reservists at summer camp in CI procedures and again when I was released from active duty at Fort Sheridan IL. In the interim I did background and special investigations as a CIC agent assigned to Hq, Region III, 113th CIC Det (aka 5050 SU Det) in Milwaukee (MOS 9302, changed to 9666 in Sep 55). My territory included the southern counties of WI, bordering IL – Senator Joseph Mc Carthy’s home country. This was also the period of Nike installation security surveys, VNR (Korean POW voluntary non-repatriates) and Hungarian refugee interrogations/investigations, some of whom made it back into the country in questionable ways.

    I served with some really outstanding men – some of whom were lawyers and doctors – who preferred to be drafted and serve two years as CIC agents rather than in their chosen professions for three years or longer. Near the end of my tour, the CO of the 113th in Chicago (Col. Wade Shankle) came to talk with me (I think, primarily because I was a fellow MP officer!), as did Colonel Ross, the Assistant Chief of Staff-Personnel for the Army Intelligence Center, who tried to recruit me into FOI (Field Operations Intelligence) in Europe. I declined because I had been accepted at the Graduate School of Business at Stanford, but I often reflect on how different my life might have been had I not.

    Comment by Wayne Dow — February 18, 2013 @ 11:38 pm

  891. I haven’t gone through the site completely but I will leave a note and return later. Maybe some of my best friends don’t know this. I grew up from birth in 1938 at 112 Williams Avenue, about three blocks from the front gate of Holabird on Dundalk Ave. My grandmother and mom work there during WW2 and later, grandma sewing gas masks and mom in accounting. My parental grandparents lived on Pine Ave in Dundalk where the old back gate exits past a saloon, can’t recall the name, and on down where my cousin still lives. In addition to H course, FOI and career course, I had deep connections to the Bird. Will return and Charlie Cleveland, did you take care of my guys in Berlin?

    Comment by Bob Hammel — February 19, 2013 @ 12:14 am

  892. PS/ I took CI (H) course in 1961, Advanced and FO in 67-68.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — February 19, 2013 @ 12:18 am

  893. I was fortunate enough to get to Holabird 3 times. May to July 1969, October to December 1970 and a 6 month stint in 1973/74. First visit was for the Military Intelligence Coordinator 97D20 class and then off to the 1st MI Co, LaiKhe, RVN. Didn’t know how good I had it until the 1st Infantry Division left and I was assigned to the 525th MI Group in Sigon. I now understand the meaning of REMF. Rotated back to Fort Holabird in September 1970 for an assignment at the Intell Center – Took me 3 months to get reassigned to the west coast. Fort Lawton, WA in Seattle with the 115th MI Group. Well that’s two posts that shut down shortly after I left. I first thought that was just bad luck but after attending the CI Agent 97B40 course at Fort Huachuca, AZ I was assigned to the Sunnyvale Field Office, CA of the 115th MI Group which was HQ’d out of the Presidio of San Francisco, CA. So now that is 3 posts that have closed after my assignments to them. I really didn’t appriciate how good we had it at Ft Holabird until many years later. Life was good then. After the creation of the Defense Investigative Service some of us were declared excess and again I was sent back to Ft Holabird. This time to support the Purge Project. I can’t even think of the number of files I reviewed and documented to be destroyed. After a good 6 months and a lot of golf I was reassigned with a couple of schools in route to the 502nd in Korea. I still keep in touch with quite a few of the folks I met and worked with in Korea.

    Dundalk is still alive and I get back to the old neighborhood every few years. So if I was assigned with any of you who took the time to read this post “I’m still alive and kicking” and can be reached at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, GA at James.Wasson@fletc.dhs.gov where I am an instructor molding the minds of new federal agents and other police officers from around the country. I think I still have another few years left in me. Jim

    Comment by James Wasson — February 19, 2013 @ 5:29 pm

  894. Manny,

    Please contact me. Rick Safran (Ft. Holabird–Student Bn -enlisted, Summer ’58; Editing & Composing Sect, USAINTS, ’58/’59; Lifeguard Holabird swimming pool, Summer, ’59; Chief, Synopsis Desk, Personnel Sec Section G-2 , Hq USAREUR, ’60. and HNOH Alum (where you contacted me, but I lost your phone number and address).

    Comment by Rick Safran — February 19, 2013 @ 7:07 pm

  895. Is that the same Linda Mathews who was in Korea in 74-75? I worked for Jim Misch in the TSCM Shop when you were there. I still keep in touch with a few of the old guys from Korea. You probably know that Ron Decomo passed away some years ago.

    Jim

    Comment by James Wasson — February 19, 2013 @ 9:58 pm

  896. Re: 890, Wayne, thank you for the link. It brought back a ton of memories. I had forgotten all of the building numbers. The pictures were great!
    Thanks again.

    Comment by bill — February 20, 2013 @ 1:05 am

  897. Re 890

    Wayne – your link really did bring back lots of memories. I took the Interrogators course as a German linguist (96C2L29) in 1968 and was assigned to the 66th MI Group, 18th MI Bn (Joint Refugee Operations Center) in Berlin.

    I read your comments about your interrogation upon arrival at the Bird. I too traveled and resided outside the USA, as a dependent ( my father was USAF) and we lived in England (South Rislip AF base), France (NATO HQ) and Germany (Tempelhof AB)during the 50s and 60s. I do not recall being interrogated about these travels when I got to the Bird, but maybe that was because I was a dependant for much of that?

    Thanks again for the link – oustanding!

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — February 20, 2013 @ 6:27 am

  898. An open question for all Holaird graduates……….

    during my tenure at the Bird, there were lots of foreign military personnel present. The standing policy was “salute them if you don’t recognize the uniform and rank” (the joke was…..don’t salute the base Fire Marshal).

    My question is…….what couses were these foreign military personnel taking at thr Bird? I did not have a single one in any of my classes.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — February 20, 2013 @ 6:33 am

  899. They were attending the Foreign Officer Intelligence course. In June of 1967 the Egypt/Israeli 6 day war broke out and they had to cancel the class quickly. There were reports of fist-fights in the classroom.

    Comment by bill — February 20, 2013 @ 11:12 am

  900. re 879
    Hey Bill, nice to catchup with you again after all these years. What’s happening since our 486 days?

    Phil Buley former ASM and Scoutmaster!

    Comment by Phil Buley — February 20, 2013 @ 6:03 pm

  901. RE 849

    I was assigned to the Bird 60-62 in the Adjutant Genersl’s office so I knew Sgt Dietzel quite well. I was the only lieutenant in the whole HQ staff, and ln my first toour, so he helped keep me on the right track.

    Say HI to your Mom for me.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Buley — February 20, 2013 @ 6:12 pm

  902. Rick Safran (#894),

    Can’t seem to find your number or address either but my father-in-law was an alumni of HNOH and my wife still gets the alumni newslater so they should have our address (under Ted Kurtz or Sheila Adler). Sorry.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 20, 2013 @ 6:54 pm

  903. Have read thru all posts to date, and now claim to be the oldest alum (cic agent course) to post this site. Arrived at main gate via STREETCAR which ran down center of Dundalk Av in Nov 45. Course work was unusually informal: Surreptitious entry, interrogation techniques ( taught by an ex-PI from Cuba), etc.
    The open mess was staffed with German POWs from the Afrika Corps, and a large sign hanging over the serving line read RAUCHEN IN DER KUCHE IST VERBOTEN.
    The facility was primarily wooden barracks and large warehouses since it was still called Holabird Signal Depot, having been converted a couple years earlier from Transportation corps maintenance depot.
    Still in touch with a couple of buddies from the 441st Det in Japan where we spent a year in the Occupation.

    Comment by Bob Cronin — February 20, 2013 @ 7:14 pm

  904. Who remembers Peabody’s bar – maybe Ed Delehanty? It was about 15 minutes from Holabird in a somewhat residental area. The entryway was a long hallway with art on both walls before getting to the bar in back. Most of us called it “Pee’bod y’s”, but the guy from Boston who attended a French speaking college in Canada called it Pee’ba dy’s.
    I attendted Holabird agent’s class in 1956.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 21, 2013 @ 9:48 pm

  905. Bob Cronin,
    Do you remember a Pete Schuford as a co worker when you were in 441 st Det in Japan? He told me of those days while we worked together in the 115th MI Grp in California in 1969. He retired in about 1971 and moved as an artist to Corpus Cristi, Tx. He passed in about 1985 there. I visited he and his wife in 1984. I thought he was on of the best agents I ever knew. He was fluent in Japanese, Manderin and Cantonese (Chinese), Spanish and Portugese. He served many years in Panama between WWII and Vietnam. Just wondering he you knew him.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 21, 2013 @ 10:58 pm

  906. Gordon Cooper
    Don’t recall Schuford, who may have been in Tokyo or other Regional HQ. I was a Japanese linguist via ASTP, and spent my time mostly in Hachinohe (N/E coast) and Obihiro (Hokkaido) which were 3 agent field offices. There were probably several hundred agents in the 441st at any given time.
    My class (not numbered) at the Bird had only 28, all of whom came down from Philly after completion of the language program at U/Penn. Another group joined 441st w/o benefit of Holabird courses directly after completion of language program at Yale.
    I sure get a kick out of dredged-up memories

    Comment by Bob Cronin — February 22, 2013 @ 5:33 pm

  907. Re: 896. Bill, in May 2010 you posted an image of a “recruiting” brochure on the Holabird alumni Facebook page. Is there any story behind that interesting item, and what was printed on the back side of it? My curiosity is killing me and I don’t “do” Facebook.

    Wayne

    Comment by Wayne Dow — February 22, 2013 @ 7:07 pm

  908. Bob Cronin,
    I recall Schuford telling me that he was sent to the Wash.D.C. field office out of Holabird. He seemed to think that all agents were first sent there in those days. He told me he had to go interview Truman, who had been a listed character reference for someone and they gave it to Schuford because he was the low man on the totem pole at the time. Seemed everyone was chicken to interview the president. Schuford had a great interview and said it put him in good staid forever. He told me he had to live on a ship in the harbor at night and worked in Tokyo by day. Great stories Pete told.
    Gordon Cooper

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 22, 2013 @ 8:49 pm

  909. Bernie T. You asked about Peabody’s Bar in Baltimore. I was at Holabird in 1968-69 and seem to remember a place called Peabody’s bookstore that was part books and part bar. I think it was located up the hill on Charleston near Washington square area.

    Comment by David Morin — February 22, 2013 @ 9:16 pm

  910. RE 898, Gary, I have posted a graduation program for a Senior Foreign Officer class from 1967. I blocked out the names of the students just in case I should. It is at this link on FaceBook. I hope it works.
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10151336014188634&set=o.288623728874&type=3&theater

    Comment by bill — February 23, 2013 @ 12:21 am

  911. RE 907, Wayne. I was recruited in Boston, 1965. The recruiter gave me this pamphlet and fed me a line. It was the time of James Bond movies and I fell for it. Best move I ever made.
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10151336062833634&set=o.288623728874&type=1&theater

    Comment by bill — February 23, 2013 @ 12:54 am

  912. Bill. Thanks for the Holabird pictures. I was telling my wife just the other day about this Major at the Bird who was in the Troop Command. I told her I was assigned there for a duty day while in school. My memory of this Major was when he came to attention even his eyes clicked. Then today I see the picture you posted of Major Price. That is the major of my memory. He was all Army in the very best of ways. Thanks again

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 23, 2013 @ 7:39 pm

  913. My brother Roger (deceased) was a GS USA Security Agency analyst and Chinese linguist (Yale) from 1962 to the early 1990s when he retired from a USA MI Bn in Munich, Germany.He served in Seoul, Hawaii, Munich and other places. I wonder if anyone out there knew Roger but then again Roger was a quiet guy and I had to pry out conversation with him? Thanks. Karl Bossi Lt Colonel USAF (RET) Venice, FL

    Comment by Karl Bossi — February 23, 2013 @ 9:35 pm

  914. Re: Message # 909. David, Peabody’s Book Shop and Beer Stube was a regular stop on the return trip from the NYC area at the close of weekends spent at home. I was an instructor at Ft. Holabird during the period you specified and recall Peabody’s being a reliable source of reasonably kick-butt Mai Tais.

    I recall the place consisting of a narrow but deep layout with dimly lit floor-to-ceiling book shelves at the front and the “beer stube” located at the back. Often SRO and frequented by local amateur singing talent, I believe the establishment finally yielded to modernity and became, after reduction, a parking lot.

    Like so much of life, a denizen finally of our memories.

    Regards, Tom Coughlin

    Comment by Tom Coughlin — February 24, 2013 @ 3:13 am

  915. Dan, Bernie and Tom:

    Peabody’s was a big “no, no” or so the scuttle-butt had it. Apparently, or so the rumor mill ground out that it had “commie” books and such. A scary place indeed.
    This in the mid-fifties. Never went there. I seem to remember it being on Charles Street but who knows anymore?

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — February 24, 2013 @ 7:29 am

  916. Dan, Tom, and Manny,
    Thanks for updating my memory of Peabody’s since I remembered the hallway with art rather than book shelves.
    Many posts ago someone mentioned a Holabird instuctor who was very knowledgeable of Communism, but couldn’t remember his name. He was Bernard Sweeney and I remember him because he was so passionate against Communism.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 24, 2013 @ 12:21 pm

  917. Re #507 by Frank Davis. I recently found this web. CO of 526th in Okinawa was LTC John Finnegan; OpsO was MAJ Joe Kurata. I was Lns O to G2, RYUKYU Command, from 9/1964-12/1965. Where did you hide out? I lived in BOQ, Wheel Area with MAJ Robt Wheeler and CWO George Henderson. I still have contact with Joe Kurata and Jesse Maness, the CF Officer. Contact me at: dbridges7@ca.rr.com

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 24, 2013 @ 2:57 pm

  918. 917…make that ref 497, not 507,

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 24, 2013 @ 3:02 pm

  919. OK…ref 407….I dont type so well anymore!

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 24, 2013 @ 3:03 pm

  920. Reference Item 435 requesting informstion on LTC Max Belba. I knew Max during the period l960-68 at FT
    Holabird and ODCSI, USAREUR, Heidelberg. If the info is
    still needed, please contact me at: jennings1937@hotmail.
    com. Bill Jennings 24 Feb 2013.

    Comment by William I Jennings — February 24, 2013 @ 3:22 pm

  921. Bernie, I hadn’t heard of Sweeney since leaving the class. Wow, that is a name out of the past. Thanks, Gordon Cooper

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 24, 2013 @ 9:18 pm

  922. Re: 917 & 921
    Gordon,
    Remember our SoCal CIC lunch at the Katella Deli on a wet Sat. last year?
    If Don Bridges can make our lunches with his bum knee, you should be able to make our next lunch, April 20, at Buca de Peppo.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 25, 2013 @ 12:11 am

  923. I was interviewed by the CIC office in Toledo, Ohio, in the spring of 1952 while still in college, and after enlisting was sent to Indiantown Gap Military Reservation in Harrisburg, PA for 16 weeks basic starting at the end of July. The part of the installation that we were assigned to had not been used since WWII and the barracks were dumps! After leave, I arrived at Holabird in time to start 1301 CI agent training from 12 January 53 to 24 April 53. At that time BGN P.E Gallagher was commandant. Much has been said about the classes including typing, but memorable were experiences like map reading in the woods of Maryland and ending up in some local bar for the afternoon.
    After CI agent classes, I was sent to the German language and area studies at the Bird from 20 May through 17 November 1953. The German class was taught by a very short and slight Capt. Rothchild and the area studies by a Mr. Noble. At that time, most of the students in class were enlisted with an NCO and one officer. By name in those in the class were Elton Replogle, the NCO, Russell Francis, Leroy Hart, Leon Horn, William Hostetter, Rodney Johnson, Gerald McGuire, Michael Sheets, Alvin Sirota and Robert Whitbread.
    The language students were housed in the wooden barracks which became extremely hot during that summer of 53. Mornings were the worst with the smog coming from the National Brewery on one side, the Sun Oil Refinery on the other side and Lever Bros. soap factory finishing it all off. Some mornings you could not breath. As a part of the German language training, we were able to visit frequently the base movie theater to view German language movies and enjoy the air conditioning. As a class, we were all assigned to Germany or Austria.
    Leaving Camp Kilmer, NJ, around the 11th of December 1953, we bounced around the Atlantic on one of the General class troop ships for 11 days arriving in time at Bremerhaven to be sent to Saurbrucken for dispatch to the 66th in Stuttgart two days before Christmas. The barracks in the Grosse Reiter Caserne – Wallace Barracks- were full so we were put up at Robinson Barracks for a week or so until we received assignment. I was assigned to Region I at Wallace under the command of LTC Bauer, an officer with the personality of a “Captain Quig.” Hats with our civilian clothes were an absolute requirement, and no idling of our cars in the parking area at the office on a cold morning to heat them up (not that the Opel had good heaters). I was given a safe house on Heinestrasse in Sonnenberg to live in with Norman Thalberg and Ned Sullivan. That was good quarters what with a maid to clean it up and to do our laundry in the bath tub!
    Getting back to our undercover black Opel’s, I don’t know how they expected us to do surveillances with those military plates and whip antennas. In the future, some stories may be told of what went on in 1954 Germany with McCarthy/Army hearings going on.
    By 1955, I was assigned to the refugee relief act of 1953 to do backgrounds on the displaced. I was allowed to hire a university student to do my leg work. With the Korean war over and the army reducing its size, rank was frozen and being engaged and only a E-4, I did not re-up and did not accept a civilian position in that same refugee program. In some way, I am sorry today that I didn’t.
    Bob Mann

    Comment by Bob Mann — February 25, 2013 @ 3:12 pm

  924. Ref: #k923

    Bob….thanks for sharing your “confrontation” with the Bird. You were there about 15 years before me, but we both ended up working for the same outfit.
    I was with the 66th MI Group also, but at the Berlin Field Station and HQ had relocated from Stuttgart to Munich (and later to Augsburg).

    I did stay on as a civilian interrogator for an additional 9 years (until 1978) and then didn’t believe our government would need interrogators much longer because we were winning the Cold War. Little did I know!

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — February 25, 2013 @ 9:09 pm

  925. Absolutely remember you Ed! Just noticed your Apr 2012 Post#637 to my #591. About MFO Civilian Secretaries: The exWave may have been JEAN HABER;just a guess.Jean suddenly was reassigned or sent USA.IRISH CLENNY a stunning tall redhead,DOLORES ZOLTEK,AURORA CUZZAVALGIA, ,ROSEMARY CARLIN married Tom Mountain military, Mountain),BETTY ANN GILMORE, wife of George, LIZ MCCURLEY an aristrocratic older woman from Baltimore.EDITH SZIBURIES MFO German translator in Baltimore since 1956. MR. MOSNEE a European translator. ABOUT INSTRUCTORS AT FORT HOLABID: Do you remember Fort Holabird German languageinstructor FREDERICK WOLINSKY,Austrian born & a unique gentleman? His entire family perished in concentration camps, sans his brother, both were lawyers in Austria BEFORE Hitler marched in. GAITANE PERREAULT from CT worked short time and transferred to McGraw HQ in Munich. HELEN ZEHNTNER,-it’s all coming back! ED, I remember your exhuberance and liveliness but no details why, just high energy! BERT STINE/STEIN was with CE team, German born, very heavyset.George Gilmore joked he doubted the helicopter would get off ground with Bert in it!George, always joking and a valued personnel.TED HENNING taught polygraph, also European born.He moved on to Schenecety NY with GENERAL ELECTRIC(???) I lost contact. CPT GLADWIN PATRICK a fine officer, his daughter lives in WA State. So many great people with the CIC School (1952-55)and Munich Field Office (1955-Dec 57). Lost contact with ANGELA LYNCH a typist with Refugee Seattlement Program 1955-57 era, run by State Dept in Munich. We were pals; she was from Cal and in Munich with her family; her Dad ROBERT LYNCH was with civilian personnel McGraw Kaserne. Would love to contact her, she had a younger sister who wanted to be a doctor.

    Comment by rita schaub range — February 26, 2013 @ 12:42 pm

  926. Rita Schaub Range contact rita2260@msn.com
    (see #925 comment Feb 26, 2012)

    Comment by rita schaub range — February 26, 2013 @ 12:46 pm

  927. Ref 925. You mention Bert Stein. I met with him regulsrly sub rosa during period 1/1962 to 9/1964. He was in Special Ops, HQ 109, Ft Meade, MD and I at Army Cml Ctr, Edgewood Arsenaal, MD. Great guy! Yes, a “great” torso.

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 26, 2013 @ 2:40 pm

  928. I was there summer of 1968. Did anyone ever met a girl who hanged out in a bar on post. Her name was Cheryl York. Very cute. Loved Holabird. I remember Geno’s Pizza.

    Comment by Ralph Vitale — March 3, 2013 @ 6:31 am

  929. This a test, I have not been able to get on this site. I’ll try again, I’m not a big computer guy, if not successful, I will try when one of my comouter kids come over.

    Comment by charles goffredo — March 3, 2013 @ 11:06 am

  930. I see my test run worked. I followed the same path down the turnpike, Ft Dix basic Jan 65 (what the hell was I thinking regular army basic at dix in the middle of the winter) After getting sick at an extended stay at Walton Army Hospital I finally got htru basic July 65. Arrived on 4th of July weekend. Got lost for a couple of days till class started. 97D40. Left to go to Korea with two other guys Cal and dont remeber the other name)> My self and Cal assigned to HHC 502nd MI BN. Worked Op files and Source admin. branch ay group Hqs. Col Dalton CO. Noticed a post from Jeff Terrell #493 remember him and Ralph Stein coming tomy office to run background checks. Dan Tompkins Post 507 was my first co followed by Cpt Price. Went home on leave Apr 67, got married and the left for 115th MI group. Presidio San Francisco with my bride. Thank you army for this almost one year honeymoon. Was given a MOS change to 97B (Agent) and was assigned as permanet nightime Duty Agent for the 115th MI Group. Great job, civilian clothes, handling any emergency that cam in overnight from our field offices, reported only to a Maj Catalano(looked like Kojak). My bride babysat for the post commander made a few dollars. Took in all that california offered. Had many relatives LA area(they still live there). Went back to NYC, became a NYPD cop and worked in organized crime bureau. The army and MI taught me alot and I used most of that traing in my career. By the was my Grandson is a PFC 2nd Div at DMZ in Korea. Love this site.

    Comment by charles goffredo — March 3, 2013 @ 11:22 am

  931. OK,, I’m beginning to think that I was the only one at the Bird working in the HQ from Sept of 63 to Apr 66. Here are aa few names I remember. Marc Kostolic, out of my class then to Post Info Office and then moved on to FTX. Dick Reed a fellow lead writer. Joe Foster he handled open case files. Robert Headly another lead writer. Capt Satterthwaite, my boss. Col Sheehan, his boss. The office I worked in was on the 2nd floor of the HQ Bldg. Then we moved to the ground floor of the CRF, just down the hall from the “computer room”. The punch card reader. My last move was to newly renovated offices on the south side of the CRF Bldg. That’s about all the names I can remember of the top of my head for now. Does anyone know of these folks …. or was it all put in my head by a nasty commie from behind the Iron Curtain?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — March 4, 2013 @ 8:21 pm

  932. In answer to 927 from 925; Bert STEIN was in the CE Section of Munich Field Office 1955-57 era when I was a steno working for CPT PATRICK, CPT CALLAHAN, MAJ LAWRENCE,as OICs.Bert had a light German accent. Never knew his European history.Hard worker well respected. Anyone know CPT Ralph KAHN,wife Ann? Ann was an artist. CPT KAHN was European born. And COL Alfred SCHERER at Holabird 1953-55; a kind man wrote great letter recommening me to the system getting me the wonderful Munich Field Office spot, after I qualified by testings in the now defunct Wash DC oversea procurement office.Without his letter I could have been assigned to a lesser location in Germany, lucky me to get Bavaria! Anyone know whatever happened to COL Himmelwright CO of MFO originally with Airborne; nickname was “Jumpin John”?

    Comment by Rita Range — March 5, 2013 @ 11:01 am

  933. Ref your 923:Your dates at Refugee program in Munich cross with mine at MFO. Been trying for years to locate Angela LYNCH a single girl working as a typist for the Refugee Program. Her Dad was ROBERT LYNCH a civilian at McGraw Kaserne on Tegenseelandstrasse I believe. We took ballet after work in Schwabin and travelled for 3 weeks to Scandinavian countries; a great friend from California originally. About 21 or so in 1955, had a younger sister wanting to go to med school.
    Refugee program had John Talbot visited us daily as civilian courier to ourMFO where I helped to the pay/admin work for the Refugee Progrm; the lady in charge had a heavy Southern accent; Refugee Program was a choice location in downtown Munich at old State Dept. The 66th was at Stettin Kaserne, an old Nazi building. I went back in 1986 and couldn’t find either site; MFO of 66th torn down; State Dept probably torn down also and replaced. Would love to hear your outlook and memories of that era. Did you have German lessons at the Bird from Frederick Wolinsky, Tom Glazier, Ted Henning(Polygraph and German teacher) They were my friends; lived in my Balto neighborhood of Charles Village near Hopkins University (not the Hopkins Hospital neighbordhood nearer Fort Holabird). We car-pooled together and always Frederick had interesting stories to tell;Frederick was a real humanitarian.

    Comment by Rita Range — March 5, 2013 @ 11:34 am

  934. Dan Ritchie

    When you worked for G2 USAINTC, did you know a civilian named Rose M. Noland who worked there? She came over to USAINTS to help us get our own S2 started. I ended up working with her for 3 years. She was still there when I got out and was about 70 years old.

    Comment by bill — March 6, 2013 @ 10:35 am

  935. Bill, I vaguely remember one civilian in our office. I don’t recall her name. If memory serves me though, she was a very nice black lady who put up with the antics of some very goofy kids trying to be adults.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — March 6, 2013 @ 11:41 am

  936. Re 932: Rita, I have a photo of Bert Stein that I will e-mail to you if you would like to have it.
    Don Bridges

    Comment by Don Bridges — March 6, 2013 @ 1:27 pm

  937. Dan Ritchie

    Rose was a white woman. How about Sgt Prado, he worked for USAINTC and processed in and checked for security clearances for the new students reporting to Fort Holabird before we took over.

    He was stocky and wore glasses.

    Comment by bill — March 7, 2013 @ 12:06 am

  938. Bill
    Sorry that doesn’t ring a bell. I worked in the case control section of the G-2 office. We handled more than just the student BI’s.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — March 7, 2013 @ 12:47 pm

  939. Re:933
    I worked the refugee program out of an office in downtown Stuttgart. I had a university student as my legman who would do much of the work in the DP buildings, and I would write them up. My German instructor at the Bird was Capt. Rothchild. He knew how to keep our noses to the grindstone for 6 months!

    Comment by Bob Mann — March 7, 2013 @ 2:10 pm

  940. re 939

    Bob….when were you in Stuttgart and what exactly was the “Refugee Program”? Many of the “Sources” we interrogated at JROC came to us from the “Notaufnahme Lager – Refugee Camp” in Berlin/Marienfelde.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — March 7, 2013 @ 6:33 pm

  941. Wow…interesting to stumble across this site. My story is much like the rest of you. Never heard of MI until the recruiter in 1968 (after I got my draft notice) told me, “kid, you don’t want to drive a tank”, go into MI. Arrived at Fort Holabird on a city bus in January ’69 from the airport after basic at Fort Leonard Wood, carrying my duffel bag and suitcase. I remember it like it was yesterday.

    Got to the gate and the guard sent for a vehicle to come and get me to take me to casual. I thought I was going to get yelled at…and surprise, it was like all of you have described, it was so much different than what I expected. I was trained as a 97D and figured I would be headed to Vietnam right away and it seemed more like a possibility when the assignments were read aloud shortly before graduation. But I went to the 531st MI Company at Fort Meade. Most of the guys there were 97C’s back from Germany and we were a repo depot. The average education for the enlisted men was 16 years. Quite an experience for a Missouri farm kid. We were going to language class one day and a guy asked us, are you guys in the reserve? We sure didn’t look regular army. Military haircuts were about as popular as breaking starch. The 531st didn’t have a mission for a long time, so there was nothing to do. We were left to do what we wanted for most of the time. We later started supporting the school at the Bird for training agents. I learned a lot while at that assignment.

    After I finished training at Fort Holabird I lived just off post on Dundalk Ave. in what looked like a church that was converted to apartments. It was small and cheap! I carpooled with some other guys that were assigned to Fort Meade and we drove through the tunnel every day. My wife and I went on post often to the PX, to wash my car, commissary, movies, etc.. I later (late 1970) wound up in Vietnam at the 525th MI Group in Saigon where I worked with people I knew from the states. Even helped a couple of friends who were on there way over there with assignments. Seemed to me that MI is a world unto itself in the Army. Later I spent a few years with the 1st Infantry Div and after that in Saudi Arabia in a different MOS and learned a lot more about a different kind of Army and life in general. Fort Holabird was a special place to me.

    Comment by Bob Newell — March 8, 2013 @ 5:07 pm

  942. Re:940
    Gary, I was in Stuttgart from 1953 to 1955. Congress passed the second of two refugee relief acts in 1953 to try to help the displaced persons in Europe to come to the US. In the latter part of 1954 the program bogged down because of a lack of state department personnel to do background investigations. That is where CIC came into play. Those of us that could speak German were assigned to that program to move it along. I did both backgrounds on site at the DP camps and also wrote reports from info provided to me by my legman who did the majority of the backgrounds. By 1954, these displaced persons in Germany had already been living there for at least nine years and had been passed over by the first refugee relief act of 1948, thus these people were pretty hardcore in terms of being displaced. Interesting duty after having spent sometime in the CE field.
    Bob

    Comment by Bob Mann — March 9, 2013 @ 2:45 pm

  943. re 941 – bob newell

    My story was similar to yours Bob. I arrived at Ft. Holabird straight from basic training at Ft. Ord in the Fall of 1968, was a German linguist already and went through the Interrogator course (96C2L29). I also expected assignment to Nam, but instead went to Ft. Meade for about 5 months. I can’t remember which unit at Meade (and it drives me nuts), but it was on a small hill just up from CIC and I believe very close to Ernie Pyle Road. Could that have been the 531st MI that you were in? We were told it was a “Holding Company” for those returning or going to Nam? We translated a lot of documents and letters in German, many of which were from German women looking for their G.I. boyfriends.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — March 10, 2013 @ 7:37 am

  944. re 942 Bob Mann

    Thanks Bob. I arrived in Berlin in 1969 and didn’t get to Stuttgart often. Our HQ was in Munich (66th MI).

    The refugees we screened/interrogated were either escapees from Iron Curtain countries or were legally leaving East Germany, i.e. retirees (the East German regime didn’t want to pay their social costs). Such a farce…..at age 64 you’d be shot attempting to leave the DDR – at age 65 they encouraged you to leave!

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — March 10, 2013 @ 7:47 am

  945. re 943 Gary.

    Could be, when I first got to the 531st in 1969, it was a company sized unit that had just moved from Germany, lock stock and duffel bag. I remember the unit was still “officially” assigned to Germany. No one knew us or what to do with us. Within a few months it started to fill up with guys coming back from Vietnam or guys coming out of the school waiting to go over. Early on (before we started to fill up), we would have morning formation and then be dismissed for the day. I remember one morning an E-6 climbed down the fire escape clad only in a towel and walked to the front of the platoon as the 1st Sgt called attention. Only in MI, I think could that happen, it was hilarious.

    Don’t remember the street names, but we lived in WWII barracks with a coal fired furnace and coal fired water heater. I’ll never forget how to get clinkers out of the furnace.

    Comment by Bob Newell — March 10, 2013 @ 10:15 pm

  946. re 945 Bob Newell

    Bob,

    The barracks we were in were also wooden and of WWII vintage. I remember we had a circular driveway in front of the building. An immediate left upon entering took you to the Orderly Room and at the end of the hall was the CO’s office. Quarters were upstairs.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — March 17, 2013 @ 12:38 pm

  947. Attended the Bird from June – August 1969, as a 96B (OB Intelligence Analyst). Out of my class of 100, 95 went to ‘Nam, 1 went to England, 1 to Greece, 1 to Turkey, and 2 of us to S.Korea. Afterwards, I was at the 508th M.I. Battalion. in Yongsan, S. Korea, then with the 201st M.I.D. in the G-2, at I Corps Headquarters, Camp Red Cloud, Uijongbu. Fell in love in country, and with the country. Extended my tour to 20 months. Passed up my ‘Dream Sheet’ for an Instructor’s Aide position at the Bird. 92nd Psyops at Bragg after that, until E.T.S., about 2 and 1/2 months early. Good B-B-Q beef sandwiches at a store just across the street from the main entrance to the Bird, on Holabird Ave. Only had 2 while I was there since my pay was only $60./month. Neat bar/tavern(with dartboard), on a small street just on the other side of the fence, on the far end of the Bird, near the Commander’s house. Climbed the fence and across the barbed wire, with many cuts to get there, instead of walking out from the Bird to Dundalk Ave., then to the bar. Took the long way back, instead of geting cut-up again, or caught.

    Comment by Jerry T. — March 21, 2013 @ 8:15 pm

  948. I will admit to breaking and the law and being very bad as I write this. I am driving across 80 from my parents house near Gary IN to my home near Toledo OH, at 11:30pm. My father, Tom Kopko, is terminal in the hospital & I want my son to have an opportunity to see his grandfather one last time. While I was looking through some papers for my mother, I found my fathers discharge papers from the 308th in 1955, I think, from Fort Holabird.

    The extent of what I know about his service is that he was stationed in Soul For I believe a year as a PFC. He carried a PPK, roomed with a 1st Sargent, and didn’t have to salute officers. He always said all he did was type. That he was drafted after he graduated from Indiana Univ, & volunteered the information that he knew how to type in boot camp when his formation was asked.

    If anyone remembers him I would love to hear some stories about him. He never really spoke about his time in Korea, and now it’s to late.

    Please feel free to email me @ bob.kopko@gmail.com

    Thank-you, in advance.

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 22, 2013 @ 12:37 am

  949. Correction on dates for Tom Kopko Pfc E-3.
    Entered service 12 May 52
    CIC Gen Fort Holabird Oct52-Feb53 course Intel Analyst
    MOS:1636 Intelligence Analyst ??? (Can anyone tell me what this mos means?)
    1yr 1mo 16days foreign service

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 23, 2013 @ 12:26 am

  950. Bob,

    MOS is an abbreviation for: Military Occupational Specialty

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 23, 2013 @ 5:15 pm

  951. Edward, thank you. My question was not worded the way it should have been. I know the MOS defines the specialty. His MOS does not seem well defined. MOS
    Intelligence analyst – 1636
    Intelligence clerk, chief – 1636
    Intelligence editor – 1636
    Intelligence operations sergeant – 1636

    All his papers say one of 2 things.
    mos: 1636 CIC
    mos: 1636 Intelligence analyst
    These don’t sound like a clerk to me, which is what he has alway told my mom, brother & I, he was.

    He also recieved what he always said was an “I was there medal”. The Commendation Ribbon with Medal Pendant for, “As an Intelligence Analyst…responsible for the processing of all counter intelligence reports handled by the Special Studies Section Operations Division”.

    The 4 different definitions of his MOS seems odd. I can’t find other MOS ratings that are not well defined.

    Also a new question that comes up, what was the Special Studies Section Operations Division? If anyone knows or remembers.

    Thank you agian fr your response.

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 24, 2013 @ 11:37 am

  952. Ref# 948,949&951 Bob, you are welcome.If your Dad roomed with a 1st sergeant(grade e-8) in Korea and he was a PFC(grade e-3)and didn’t have to salute officers it could be that had some agent background training although grade of PFC seems too low for that particular position.When I was in Holabird in 1966-1967 I was graduated as an Intelligence Analyst and the M.O.S. was designated as a 96b20
    A gentleman named Manny Adler who contributes very knowledgeable and helpful information to this site went through the agent course in the mid 50s, can probably be of more help to you than I. The info you provided is more useful to his area of expertise than I can give.
    The best to you and your son and of course your Dad.
    Manny are you out there?

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 24, 2013 @ 4:41 pm

  953. Re 951, Bob,
    It seems like the Korean War had it’s own specific MOS’s. According to the site “Korean War Educator”, these are the MOS’s you refer to.

    Intelligence analyst – 1636
    Intelligence clerk, chief – 1636
    Intelligence editor – 1636
    Intelligence operations sergeant – 1636

    They later became MOS 96D20. The name of the course was Image Interpreter.

    Comment by bill — March 24, 2013 @ 7:10 pm

  954. Thank-you Bill. I ran across a group today, NCICA, for former CIC members. I sent the same request for information there. I am really hoping to find someone who served with him. But, with his age being a month short of 85, I am afraid there are not many left around. I am greatful for any and all information I can find.

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 24, 2013 @ 10:54 pm

  955. Ed (#952),

    I am out here somewhere in cyber-space but did not go through an agents course (see posts for background information).

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 25, 2013 @ 2:04 pm

  956. Manny(#955)

    Sorry for the mistaken assumption. I do remember that you spoke German.Glad to know you are still out there somewhere.Good to see Bill came across with some information for Bob Kopko. I am sure he appreciates your timely responses. Later,gentleman

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 25, 2013 @ 10:51 pm

  957. I appreciated all the responses, very much.
    Thanks to all of you. My quest continues.
    Bob

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 27, 2013 @ 5:51 pm

  958. re 948 Bob Kopko

    Bob,

    If you Google 308th, there are a number of units mentioned and the unit history is often shown. Some of these outfits have associations, made up of current and past members. You might find someone who knew your Dad that way. I could not see that a 308th was ever in Holabird, but the 308th MI Bn was formed in 1952 in New York, NY. Maybe your Dad went to the Bird for training while he was with the 308th? Anyway, good luck and all the best for your Dad.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — March 28, 2013 @ 4:37 pm

  959. Re comment 923 by Bob Mann:

    Bob,

    Enjoyed reading your comments since I too was in Region I, 66th CIC, during much of the same period that you were. I was fortunate to spend 1954-1956 at Region I’s Karlruhe Field Office with a great group of people – Joe Wozenski, Charles Parker, Ed Wach, Bob Button, Bill Hostetter, Norm Tulp, Elton Replogle, Craig Bentley, Bill Martens and I’m sure a few names I’ve forgotten. I noted that you attended German language class at Holabird with Elton Replogal and Bill Hostetter. Bill and I were good friends and I’ve often wondered where he is today. I still keep in touch with Charles Parker who lives in Florida. Also kept in touch with Joe Wozenski until his passing in the 1990s. My wife and I have many fond memories of our two years in Karlsruhe.

    ROD VAUGHN

    Comment by Rogers (Rod) Vaughn — April 1, 2013 @ 9:52 am

  960. Re 959 Rod Vaughn
    Elton Replogle was listed as a member of ACICV and was living in the Seattle area a couple of years ago. I haven’t heard more since, nor have I heard about any of the others. That was a l o n g time ago!
    Bob Mann

    Comment by Bob Mann — April 11, 2013 @ 3:57 pm

  961. Re my previous post #930. Since I discovered this site back in March of this year, I have been intrigued by it. I have looked it over several times and remember a lot of things a long time forgotten. I noticed several posts by names that I remember and some by people who I think our paths crossed, especially in the 502nd MI in Korea. For instance Jeff Terrell post 493, I remember him very well. I tried his e-mail that was posted but was unable to contact him Jeff if you are reading this please contact, I would like to catch up on old times. Capt TOmpkins post 507, thank you for only suspending my driving license for 3 days after I overturned the deuce and half coming back from the orphanage and landing upside down in a rice paddy. Had about 6 MI guys in the back of the truck, thank God all were okay(it wasn’t my fault, tried to avoid a oxcart on a narrow road and hit a soft spot on a narrow mountain road). Dan Rundell Post #508, we were at 502nd same time, remember your name but can’t put two and two together. Someone mentioned the club at Yongsan compound, yes it was named The Hilltop Club. Up the stone steps right next to the mess hall. I used to run the projector at the club two nights a week. Big draw was re-runs of the Untouchables and Rawhide with Clint Eastwood. Got paid a whopping $5 for the week. Never saw a dime all went to buying 10 cent beers for the guys(Schlitz and Black Label only available). Also was the armed payroll guard with the XO on payday. Loved the 502nd, spent 19 months there. More stories to follow, I see there is a lull in the action on this site. Come on guys and gals, more posts.
    On a sad note, I found out last week that Agent Ralph Stein Co B 502nd 1966 passed away in Feb of this year. Ralph was a constitutional law professor at Pace University in NYC.
    My e-mail mrg723@si.rr.com Thank you everyone.

    Comment by charles goffredo — April 11, 2013 @ 7:18 pm

  962. Charles(ref 961)
    I (ref 187 ) also fondly remember Yongsan compound being there from Feb.68 to June 68 with the 502nd G2,8thArmy. I was sent there shortly after the Pueblo Incident from USARPAC Hawaii and expected a grim tour.Found out that this was the place to be if you got shipped to the ROK.As I recall,the mess hall didn’t segregate by rank;E-2s ate alongside E-8s or an occasional E-9.We had Korean cooks overseen by the Mess Sergeant and female Korean waitresses that handed you a slip of paper with a short menu on it and you circled your choice They delivered your meal to your table.We always ate there because the food was excellent.Sundays- blueberry pancakes ,waffles,omelets and a fruit array were outstanding!
    Yes,up the stone steps was the infamous “Hilltop Club”
    where you could get a drink and a Moose that would satisfy a general.If you were a FNG,Kim the bartender would make you a North Korean Special that had several different shots in a concoction that had to be consumed for your initiation into the 502nd.Dues were paid monthly and a party was usually planned with the left over money.WE had a barbecue late in the spring that rivaled any that I had encountered.The Korean cooks put a 400lb pig on a spit outside in the party area wrapped in tin foil at about 4 in the afternoon on Friday and it wasn’t done until early afternoon on SAturday.You could smell that sucker all night and made your mouth water.They had separate garbage cans filled with iced beer,wine,whiskey,scotch and who knows what else that could have intoxicated an entire battalion and there were probably only 75 of us to 100.Every one was drunk,many inebriated, several passed out and some who just wandered off with their mooses.The pig was excellent,charred on the outside succulent below with a taste so good.We ate like Vikings.I had many swell times there, wished I could have been there for the summer for additional festivities and another deuce and a half excursion to the banks of the Han River. Ed.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — April 13, 2013 @ 4:40 pm

  963. Ed(#187 & 962)
    Thank you very much for your post in regards to my post . Yes we had Korean cooks and waitresses who gave us a short menu. If the menu stated sacrambled eggs you knew it meant powder eggs. Choice of eggs, you got fresh eggs. Mr kim was indeed the bartender at the Hilltop club. In addition to liquid refreshments you could get a very large dish of fried rice for a quarter(1965) There was also our barber shop thru the door to the left of the bar. Were the slot machines and pinball machines still there when you got there? Never once had to do any kind of duty outside of my MOS. The Korean civilians and the ROK soldiers did all the rest. My quarters (Quonset hut) was the closest to Hqs hut and was also a very long walk to the latrine, especially in the dead of winter. Thanks again Ed for responding.

    Comment by charles goffredo — April 13, 2013 @ 7:39 pm

  964. Charles(963)

    You are welcome ,Charles.I recall some slot machines being there,I played the one on the left side of the bar as you came into the building.I believe it was a five cent bandit and it payed out often if you pulled the handle a certain way.For a brief time I went to the USOM(?)club and it was modern.You had to dress up to get in and I think it was frequented by GS civilian people and upper brass.I forget where it was located but I do remember it being on higher elevation with a circular drive-up.A few of my cohorts and I played the same twenty-five cent machine for 3-4 days(after duty)waiting for the thief to pay out big but it never did.I quartered in a Quonset hut also and it was comfortably warm even in the dead of winter.Korean Nationals used to re-fill the stoves with fuel in the wee hours of the night.The latrine was a hike but the showers were hot and the place was clean.The only inconvenience that I had with the distance was when I became ill the day after I arrived at HHC and had the runs.After a few trips to the can I decided to keep the clothes on and sleep in them as the trips back and forth took it’s toll.I received a gamma globulin shot a week prior when I came into country.Whew! The medics hit both sides of your butt with a needle the size of a cigar!Everyone who received it slept on their stomachs for days,it hurt like hell!

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — April 14, 2013 @ 5:36 pm

  965. reference 961,962,963 what time period are you referring to? I was there from 1965 1966. I remember this being a very active period over that period. we had 4-5 agents, and a clerk. I remember kirk from Bristol, Tenn/VA. don’t remember last name. I also remember Tim, red headed, I can’t remember the AIC, although I think it was “Van Arsdale:. can’t be sure about that. well, love to hear from some one there during that time. j. bone. jhbone@vaughnlawfirm.net

    Comment by james h. bone — April 15, 2013 @ 11:54 am

  966. A lot of recent comments are coming from folks from from the 502nd MI Bn in Seoul, Korea. If you are on Facebook go to the Seoul, Korea, 502nd MI Tracy or Tracey Compound Facebook page and join up. We can expand it to include Yongsan HHC and other companies of 502nd MI folks. The Korea of the 1960s was the best kept secret in the army as you all remember.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 15, 2013 @ 3:05 pm

  967. James(ref 965)

    I was at the 502nd HHC and worked at G2 HQ 8th Army from early Feb. 68 to late June 68.Was sent there in response to the Pueblo being captured. It was an active period when I was there also;I think the assault by NK infiltrators on the Blue House happened shortly before I got in country

    Daryl (ref 966)Thanks,I’ll check it out.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — April 15, 2013 @ 10:05 pm

  968. Fellow Holabird graduates and Cold War Intel comrades,

    Like most of you, I found this site by accident and have thoroughly enjoyed reading of your experiences, trials and tribulations and friendships. It is great to see some of you locate and communicate with past comrades and it does the heart good to sense the profound respect and pride od service displayed in these posts. Personally, I have not yet located anyone I served with – perhaps this is due to the fact that after the Bird, I was assigned to relatively small and covert units, or simply a matter that none of my comrades have located this site? It is, however, gratifying to read the antics and experiences of fellow 96 Charlies!

    Someone recently mentioned that there was a lull in communication here. I worry each time that happens that perhaps another comrade has left us, as it doesn ‘t take Einstein to figure out that if we are all Holabird grads, then the youngest of our breed are at least 60+. I hope those lulls simply indicate that many of us could be retired and are out fishing, playing golf or on vacation with the grandchildren.

    I would just like to express to you all what a pleasure it has been reading your posts and how proud I have always been to have been part of our Armed Forces, the Intelligence Branch and especially of Fort Holabird.

    All the best,

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — April 16, 2013 @ 6:04 am

  969. Ref 967: The Pueblo incident was in Jan 68; 2 days before the NKs tried to blow up the Blue House. Martial law was declared. Of the 12 NKs, 9 were killed, 2 escaped or froze trying to get home, and 1 was captured.
    Interesting time. I was with Co B, 502 (formerly 308 CIC), Nov 67-Dec 68.

    Comment by Don Bridges — April 16, 2013 @ 10:53 am

  970. 502 dates were Sepo67 – Nov 68

    Comment by Don Bridges — April 16, 2013 @ 11:00 am

  971. 502nd dates: Sept. 66 – March 68
    These 502nd posts bring back lots of lost memories. Loved the Hill Top Club and introducing the new guys to Lemon Hart rum. (god that stuff was nasty)

    Comment by Steve Bostick — April 16, 2013 @ 1:21 pm

  972. Ref my Post 961. I arrived 502nd HHC mid September 1965 from Ft Holabird with Cal cant exactly remember his name and a third classmate who was assigned to Co B. The three of us were 97d20. We were the lucky ones the rest of our class went mostly to Viet Nam. I spent a total of 19 months at HHC (6 months longer than the average tour at the time) I left in April 1967 and even remember filling out my dream assignment sheet requesting the 108th MI (specially the NYC office The aarmy sent me as close to NYC as possible. The 115th MI group located at the Presdio San Francisco. My previous post 930 I explained I got married on leave and brought my bride to San Francisco with me.(still married to same woman, 46 years next week.) As part of my duty in 502nd drove my immediate boss and Col Dalton to various companies and field offices and the embassy where I met a lot of the MI personnel. Sorry I cant remember many names , but I,m glad my recent post about a lull in the action on this page has created some new and welcome activity. Keep it coming.

    Comment by charles goffredo — April 16, 2013 @ 3:14 pm

  973. Were courier runs still required in 1965-69 in Korea or did technology overtake the need?
    In 1956-57, I took two courier trips via train from Seoul to Pusan. The train was a Korea “milk train” that took 12 hours [6 AM to 6 PM] with a number of stops to travel the 240-250 miles from Seoul to Pusan.
    We travelled in one of the two UN railroad cars with just a few riders. This made it easy not to talk to anyone. [or was it our culture not to talk with strangers?]
    In winter, the UN cars were close to the engine for warm [in theory anyway]. In summer, the UN cars were at the end of the train so that the windows could be closed when travelling thru a tunnel. Ocassionally, someone didn’t close the windows in time and the black engine smoke would enter the car.
    The briefcase was handcuffed to our wrist [we had no keys] and we carried a snub-nosed 38 revolver in a quick-release holster. At Taejon and Taegu, the “field office” SAIC and two special agents would meet
    us with a key to the briefcase. The SAIC would remove a folder and replace it with another folder. At
    Pusan, we would be relieved of the briefcase, have a few drinks with some of the guys in the compound bar,
    and reverse the trip the next day.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 17, 2013 @ 4:56 pm

  974. Bernie, I did similar courier duty from Andrews AFB to Alice Springs, Australia in 1969. There was a communications site at a place called Pine Gap, just outside Alice Springs. Will you be a the luncheon tomorrow in Anaheim? Gordon Cooper

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — April 18, 2013 @ 1:11 pm

  975. Hello to Rita Schaub and Bob Mann. Enjoyed your posts. I went through Holabird, Rita, when you were working there. After I was discharged in June 1955 I went to Germany to work in the Refugee Relief Program (a federally-funded program of 1953). I was in Region III in Frankfurt although I spent some time on tdy in the Ruhr area. I worked in Germany until the end of 1956 when the funding ended. I loved the job. Met Germans of all stripes: Nazis, ex-Nazis, Luftwaffe pilots, Russian-front vets, a handful of vets who admitted they fought against the Americans, former Allgemeine SS officers, a ton of Waffen SS vets, Kripo SS veterans (sonsabitches), Americans of German descent who had visited Germany and were trapped there during the war and so on. Also a lot of Afrika Korps vets who had POWs in the States. Some of those women who had been trapped in Germany has lost their American citizenship. One begged me in tears to do something for her. Her family was in St. Louis. I told her how to get them to get their local congressman to pass a “special bill” in congress to get her citizenship back. I never learned what happened. Most of our work dealt with border crossers in Germany from 1945 until around 1953. CIC had employed about 250 former CIC agents to work as GS-8 civilians. A few of the guys hired had been agents in Berlin in the 1948-50 period and had a lot of stories to tell. CIC had trouble filling the positions. My wife and I wanted to go to Europe (she had a grandmother in Holland), and although the job was temporary, we looked forward to the excitement of living in Europe. My conversations with German women who had survived the bombings of Darmstadt (a small-scale Dresden), Cologne (and other Ruhr cities) were memorable. One Wehrmacht vet home on leave from the Russian front told me how he was caught in Cologne in one of the 2,000-plane raids. “Worst thing I ever experienced!” One woman on a farm told me how she watched an American fighter plane strafe her grandfather who was plowing in a field with a horse. Both were killed. She was understandably bitter. That was one of the reasons so many pilots were lynched by mobs when they were shot down. I really enjoyed staying in British officer billets. They, like the Americans, took over the castles and baronys after the war. One near Muenster was really great. We were paid ten dollars per diem (really big money!) but we could stay with the British for $2.50 a day. I was earning more than a British major, driving my black opel sedan, and speaking German. Very few British were interested in learning German. When I told them what I was doing (doing background checks on refugees), they didn’t believe me. It sounded like some foolish cover story. Double scotch and sodas at the bar cost ten cents — true story, and one of the reasons alcoholism was a problem in the officers corps. One lieutenant my age told me at the bar one night that I was the first American he ever knew that he liked. “Really,” I replied. “How many have you known, Bill?” “Oh, you’re the first. But I have seen Americans on the Strand, in the movies, and you are different.” And so it went. I nearly stayed over there as I was offered a job at Camp King in Oberursel. My German was getting better all the time (I was rattling off the subjunctive like an educated German. My accent was good and I even looked like a German. A lot locals thought I was a native speaker. That is, until we got off the subject and my vocabulary ran dry.). I had to go to the Kripo (criminal police) one day in Frankfurt. The inspector was an older guy and obviously still a Nazi. I had trouble translating a court document, and I asked him to help. He finally said, “I’m having trouble with your German. I think we should speak English.” He looked at me like I was dog meat. I poured it on, speaking a little faster and loading up the vocabulary. He was suffering. I finally said, “I’m having trouble with your English. I think we should go back to German.” He looked at me like he was ready to shoot some slavic peasant. We continued the interview, I speaking German and he speaking English. It was great.
    Those were fun times.

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 20, 2013 @ 2:07 pm

  976. Jim,

    I’m surprised you actually met a Nazi. My experience is that nobody knew anything about anything and all even if they did were “unshuldig” and after all after all “Befehl ist befehl”. Loved your post. This is the type of historical material that has been lost. More detail please (or even a book or NEW YORKER piece).

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 21, 2013 @ 6:42 am

  977. Ref: 975 & 976. My experience is similar to Manny’s. My Idar-Oberstein landlord in the early 1960s claimed he was a forward observer during WWII and never left Germany. Our friend’s landlord claimed he did nothing of significance in the War, but served three years in a French prison for doing “nothing”.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 21, 2013 @ 9:29 am

  978. Thanks for the comments. I will write more later. We used to joke in the office that the SS was purely a service organization: clerk typists and truck drivers. No one seemed to have shot anybody. Secondly, every veteran seemed to have fought on the Russian front, never against the Americans. After some months, I met a German who had fought against us in eastern France and as far east as Augsburg. I literally shook his hand for his candor. I told him he was the first German who had admitted to me that he had fought against Americans.

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 21, 2013 @ 12:07 pm

  979. Arrived at the “Bird” in Nov 1956 after basic trng at Dix for special agent training. Upon completion assigned to 902nd CIC Group in DC. Two years at the “duce” where I applied for and received a direct 2nd Lt commission. Assigned to 24MI Bn after 902nd. Back to the “Bird” for Photo Interp course and then back to 24th. Transferred to US Navy as sqdn intel officer at NAS New York. After some 15 years of naval service active and reserve, retired as CDR.
    Best year of my life were in the service both Army and Navy in Intel.

    Comment by CDR Robert Becker — April 21, 2013 @ 2:12 pm

  980. Nazis I met (re: 976-977): Germans never conceded they were pro-Hitler, but by their negative comments about the Allies and their overt hostility to Americans, it was easy to conclude how they felt. I used to do interviews in a refugee camp holding Baltic people in Rheine, just north of Muenster. It was an old Luftwaffe fighter base jammed with Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians. The camp director was an intelligent German woman whose husband was still in prison (1956) for crimes he committed as a member of the SD (Sicherheitsdienst — the worst of the worst). Most German prisoners had already been released during the period from 1950 to 1954, Adenauer’s price for backing us against the Soviets. So her husband was really a bad guy, but she complained regularly about how unjust it was to have him put away. She made jokes about the refugees in the camp who were “slavic pigs,” who were born to become Americans. “Please take them all. We don’t want them here.” She particularly hated the British. One day she commented, “Gross Britannia, the most mis-named country in history.” I had one grim experience in that camp. When I left our main office in Frankfurt, my C.O., Captain Kennedy, handed me a dossier and said, “Can you give this news to the woman in the Rheine camp.” I didn’t think about it until over breakfast a few days later as I planned my work day, mapping out an itinerary. I leafed through the dossier. It was an official notice that the applicant was being denied a visa because she had a spot on one of her lungs. I thought, oh boy, I have to give her this news. That afternoon I knocked on the door of the family’s room in the camp, and introduced myself as from the American consulate (which was SOP for us). A young woman greeted me and the room was filled with seven or eight people, the whole family. My subject was the grandmother. They were overjoyed to see me, bowing and shaking hands, expecting to learn more about their impending immigration to America. I gave them the grim news as diplomatically as I could in my awkward German. The son blew up and said, “Why? That can’t be the problem. She is healthy.” Well, the law at that time was rigid, no evidence of TB and no mental illness. Soon there were tears everywhere. I tried to sooth those people, but to no avail. It was a sad
    drive home. We always said we represented the American Consulate rather than security organizations. The exception was when we went into police stations. Then we were members of the “Sicherheitsdient,” spoken with emphasis. That always turned heads. In the Third Reich, the criminal police were SS members which meant that every detective or inspector in police stations over the age of 35 or 40 had been in the SS. Some were OK, but many were still upset about the outcome of the war. Consider that there were thousands of Germans walking around who had been in the SS. At Dachau we tried roughly 100 guards from Mauthausen concentration camp out of a staff complement of 5,500 SS personnel. This is just one camp out of dozens. Most of those who were convicted were freed by 1955. At the same time we were processing ex-Waffen SS personnel through the refugee program. There had been over 900,000 members of the Waffen SS and only about 50,000 worked at concentration camps. When we could identify those guys, they were disqualified. Easier said than done. I knew two Waffen SS veterans right here in Oceanside, California where I live. Few people know we did this. And, of course, we gleefully processed dozens of ex-prostitutes who went through without a hitch.

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 22, 2013 @ 12:45 pm

  981. Jim(#980),

    Just finishing a book titled USEFUL ENEMIES by Richard Rashke which may be of interest to you others on this site; very much parallels your last post.

    Keep the information flowing or it may become lost in the dustbin of time. We need to hear all of your stories before we dwindle away to where Holabird now exists.

    Thanks all.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 28, 2013 @ 6:07 am

  982. great site…but didn’t find any buddies…
    spent 1 1/2 yrs as RA then OCS at Ft. Benning, comm MI then to Ft. Holabird for 9666 course..assigned as OIC to Wilkes-Barre, PA w/HQ in Philly for 6 months doing BIs …then to VN, 525th, III Corps (Bien Hoa, Xuan Loc, Bear Cat, Vung Tau (7/69-7/70) was OIC at Bien Hoa 3AOX field office on the Army Base but not at the HQ…would love to hear from anyone who was assigned to III Corps; GetThere2@aol.com…

    Comment by Jerry Smith — April 28, 2013 @ 2:38 pm

  983. I am reading Col. Jim Milano’s book Soldiers, Spies, and the Rat Line. It is about the 430th in Austria in the l945-50 period. Are there people out there in the ACICV and on this site who recall Milano in the 430th? Or any of his people (he was a major at the time). In 1954 at Holabird, our interrogations instructor in the 1301 course was an Italian-American whose name I can’t recall. He was pretty dull: we called him “The Italian sandman” as he rambled on from time to time. But, we had heard that in Vienna he had been involved in one of the cases that involved the “Third Man.” The book and movie are made up of several factual occurrences, as I understand it.
    Milano discusses the original role of CIC in Austria that was similar to the CIC role in Berlin and elsewhere in Germany, namely, positive intelligence and handling agents penetrating the Soviet establishment. He discusses turning over the operations to the CIA. A couple of Berlin vets were in our refugee office on Zeppelin Allee in Frankfurt that I worked with, and could tell some interesting stories. In 1955-56, the PX gas station near Wac Circle employed about six or seven guys from Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and East Germany. Originally, they went back across the border for the CIC, but all had been handed over to the CIA in the I.G. Farben Building. One of the guys came into our office one day and pleaded for help. He had been promised that after his final mission, he would be allowed to immigrate to the US. He said that he was forced to run one trip after that and now was asked to do another. He said he knew several men who had disappeared, and he was afraid to go back, but his handler would not listen. One of the Berlin vets in our office listened to his story, and then asked me to go with him to the American Consulate. He wanted a third-party witness. There, we told one of the senior officials the story and asked him to call off the CIA, but the guy wasn’t interested. “We have business to conduct.” Finally, the older man I was with (He was around 40 as I recall) lit into him about exploiting these poor guys. A few days later, our C.O. spoke to us and told us to keep hands off the guys at the gas station and to make no more trips to the consulate complaining. He said he got his orders from 66th CIC hqs in Stuttgart through LTC Butler at Offenbach, Region III hqs. Hence, the old timers had no use for the CIA people.
    I am wondering if there are any out there who have a few CIC-CIA stories to relate.

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 29, 2013 @ 12:56 pm

  984. Manny (981),
    I have not read Useful Enemies, but have had read other accounts over the years. It was said, “When we divorced the Soviets, we married the Germans.” Hence, General Gehlen and others became our friends and helpers. I would guess that one thousand to five thousand former Waffen SS people immigrated to the US through the Refugee Relief Act of 1953. As I wrote previously, there were over 900,000 in Waffen SS units. Some had been in Wehrmacht line outfits that were re-designed SS by the stroke of a pen. They got new officers and went through additional super intensive training. They were tough units and when we faced them in Normandy and elsewhere, our forces had a helluva time subduing them. In Frankfurt, we had a German-American in our office from the States who had been caught in 1939 on a visit to Germany with his parents. He later wound up in the Wehrmacht, and then lost his US citizenship. He fought on the Russian front and said whenever they were next to a Waffen SS unit, they loved it because they were really tough and the Russians feared them. We were told that Waffen SS vets would not be excluded from immigrating to the US, only those who had been concentration camp guards. We also had a former “Ritchie Boy” in our office, a German Jew who fled to the States in 1938. He went into the Army in WWII and was trained at Camp Ritchie as an interrogator. He was really smart, and of course, hated Nazis and a lot of other Germans. I was doing a Subject Interview (a ten-page question and answer document) on a Waffen SS man one day, and Henry was interviewing his mother. Henry claimed his mother said her son used to tell her about his service at one of the camps. Henry came to me and asked if he could talk with the vet. The first thing he did was ask him to take off his coat and shirt so he could see the tatoo-ed serial number all Waffen SS men had. It was humiliating. Then, he slowly began to interrogate him. Henry, of course, was a native speaker and during the war had interrogated everyone from privates to generals and knew the German military culture inside and out. I sat there fascinated. The guy never broke down or changed his story, but Henry wrote up the case which was processed by the American consulate. We never knew how it came out. Once, I asked a fellow here in my hometown how he wound up in the Waffen SS. He replied, “I was 17, brainwashed by Goebbels like everyone else, and the SS had the best looking uniforms and lots of prestige. I was a stupid kid.” He wound up in the ski troops on the Swiss border, loved the intensive training and swallowed all the propaganda. “You couldn’t challenge those people or you would be sent immediately to the Russian front! Americans have no idea what it was really like in the Third Reich.”

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 29, 2013 @ 1:38 pm

  985. Jim(#984),

    You are erudite. I look forward to your posts and what an education. Thanks.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 30, 2013 @ 12:22 pm

  986. Completed Infantry OCS 25 June 1967 and spent four weeks at Fort Holabird for the Basic Intelligence Officer Course. There were 15 members of my OCS class that received MI commissions with orders to Vietnam. June 1967 was when the CIA received funding for the ICEX, later known as PHOENIX, program. We all went on the same plane to Vietnam on 30 August 1967.
    About five were assigned to CICV during our in-processing at the 519th. After lunch, the rest of us were introduced to LTC Hamil for a briefing on our assignments. Hamil told us that we had been selected for an opportunity to earn CIB’s and work with the CIA and Vietnamese counterparts at the District level. He stated that he had openings in all four Corps areas, any volunteers?
    I celebrated Tet 68 in a bunker with SSG Ralph Griest next to the Michelin Plantation.
    later, as the SSO Fort Huachuca, I delivered the message from BG Blakefield, CG Fort Holabird, to MG Latta, CG Fort Huachuca announcing that Huachuca had been selected as the new Army Intelligence Center.

    Comment by Clark Hunt — April 30, 2013 @ 1:11 pm

  987. My previous post 930 & 961. I just located my official diploma from Fort Holabird. It seems that although I arrived 4th July weekend 1965, I did not start class until 19 July 1965 to 10 September 1965. I can not make out the commandant’s signature looks like onord Jr. at he end of the signature. Bruce(?)Fisher school secretary. Anybody remember who the commandant was in this period? Just want to mention that I went to a couple of Oriole games at their old stadium. I believe the tickets were supplied by the USO and the army transported us to the games. The seats were in the Upper deck in left field, that I do remember. Not much mention of the drive-in movie theater in Baltimore. Went with a couple of classmates a couple of times. Did go the Block to see what it was all about. Being a big city boy from NYC I was not impressed, not after being in Times Square(42nd street) many times as a young man. Block could not compare in the wild 60,s.
    Since my posts I have located and chatted with two former Mi types from our time in 502nd MI in Korea.
    Keep the comments coming, it gives me something to do instead of sleeping on the couch watching the evening news.

    Comment by charles goffredo — April 30, 2013 @ 6:53 pm

  988. Concerning the Austrian duty just postwar. Great read is “The Mozart Leaves at Nine” by Harris Green. Used to be in Augsburg in 1962-64 and one of my mates was supposedly in the unit located in Salzburg and said most of the incidents were based on facts. Don’t know but it made my first visit to Wien much fun.

    Comment by bob hammel — April 30, 2013 @ 10:43 pm

  989. Charles Goffredo, I graduated in October 1965 and the Commandant was Major General Charles F. Leonard Jr.

    Comment by bill — April 30, 2013 @ 11:16 pm

  990. Bob, I checked out Mozart Leaves at Nine, used book price at $21.00, published in 1961. What is the main theme of the book?

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 30, 2013 @ 11:27 pm

  991. Ref#989. Thanks Bill. The name was so messed up, I could not make any sense of it. And to Jim Downs, I salute you Sir for your outstanding service to our country and your very vivid memory of your time in MI.

    Comment by charles goffredo — May 1, 2013 @ 12:12 pm

  992. RE: 990. Jim, book is about Maj Jeremy Burton, US Army Security Service (CIC) set during winter of 1946 in Salzburg with all the leftover Nazi problems, dealing with allies and general operations. Mozart is the train like the Orient Express but I forget the stops. Author served in Europe during WW2 and as consultant after the war, still in Europe. He obviously was in the business at some time and this is a great read.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 1, 2013 @ 8:01 pm

  993. About British intelligence WWII. Recommend the Wed. night (April 30 2013) KCTS TV program “Secrets of the Dead”. It exposed recent find at British Archives of dusty and forgotten WWII typed transcripts of wired conversations recorded surreptiously by British intelligence of high ranking German officer prisoners. They were were sequested in comfort in a lovely old home in England by the British Intelligence. The prisoners were treated well so hopefully they would open up to their equals about their expereinces and attitude of WWII. All war gossip between the prisoners was recorded successfully. One big find was knowledge how the German airplanes could zero onto London sites to bomb by guidance of RADIO WAVES, a technology unknown by Allies at that time. Also, the location of the German building rocket site was discussed and recorded and then bombed by Allies. My warning is that graphic films and discussions of the German officers of the atrosities against and termination of Jews sorrowful to see. You can see the program as KCTS has past TV programs on their website to view. Churchill was against the idea of comfort of the officer prisoners at first and went for it for intelligence gathering possibility, and it worked well for the Brits and us Americans.

    Comment by rita schaub range — May 2, 2013 @ 10:35 am

  994. re 993

    Rita,

    Today that treatment would probably be deemed “enhanced interrogation techniques” and not be allowed! I’m glad I was a Holabird-educated interrogator, when the main objective was to gather useful intelligence.

    Best regards,

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — May 2, 2013 @ 5:41 pm

  995. I got a kick out of your Holabird story. I arrived there in January 1966 after basic training at Ft. Polk, La. I took the counterintelligence course, and learned all about the Soviet intelligence and spy agencies, being the only one in Class B-14X who spoke/read Russian (having taken at year of it at SMU), and wowed all the guys. Holabird, I thought, was college-style teaching an I enjoyed it immensely. Graduated just at the time the first James Bond movie, “Dr. No,” came out, so that wowed my Baltimore girfriend, too. Spent a tour of duty in Baltimore with the 109th MI Group, then transferred to Dallas (my hometown!) with the 112th. We wore civilian clothes, carried badge and credentials (B&C), and investigated military and civilian personnel for TOP SECRET security clearances–all while the infantry guys were sweating it out in Vietnam. God was looking out for me. Just before discharge, I applied for and got a commission as a 2LT (O5442090). At that time, I was an E-6 (staff sergeant; they THROW rank at you in intelligence, trying to keep you in). My fraternity brothers from SMU in Dallas, who were all sweating the draft (I volunteered) and Vietnam. One of them said, “Hey, Calhoun! I thought you were in the Army!” I coolly said, “I am. I’m working right now.” Boy, then they ALL wanted to get into intelligence, so I old them to see the Army recruiter, volunteer, and ask for it; at that time, the Army guaranteed your assignment if you volunteered. Here’s to all my classmates at “the Bird.” God bless, and thanks again for your story.

    John Calhoun
    jcalhoun333@gmail.com
    Fort Collins, CO

    Comment by John Calhoun — May 5, 2013 @ 5:15 am

  996. When I was assigned to the 116th Detachment in the Military District of Washington in June 1954, I was an E-3. One year later I was discharged after only 22 months and still was an E-3. The detachment had a 5,000 case backlog when I arrived, and we were so over-TO&E that no one was being promoted. There were people working in various agencies in DC and the Pentagon who had not received their top secret clearances and were spending their time working in low-profile jobs. Lots of agents and lots of work but no promotions. Different situations for different folks in different times. The Korean War had just ended, and budget cuts were the order of the day.

    Comment by Jim Downs — May 5, 2013 @ 9:08 pm

  997. Promotions were still slow in 1956-7. I served in Korea. We were promoted to E-4 with an occasional E-5 within two years.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — May 5, 2013 @ 9:31 pm

  998. Promotions were slow even in WWII for CIC personnel compared to other branches and services. This is one of the reasons they were known as the “corps of indignant corporals”. I got out as an E-4 after 2 years and 9 months in ’57 (and glad to do so).

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 6, 2013 @ 11:33 am

  999. Pleased to see so many great stories here. I’m looking to get some history and/or anecdotes about the 902nd CIC Detachment / 902nd CIC Group / 902nd Intelligence Corps Group / 902nd MI Group. I’m doing well on the World War II period and have good hints for the early 50s, but it’s a little thin from there until the mid-90s. I would love to start a dialogue with any alumni from the late 50s through early 90s.

    Comment by Brian Jackson — May 9, 2013 @ 1:44 am

  1000. Our 97B40 class in May, 1968 had 58 sent to vietnamese school for 52 wks at Ft. Sam Houston, TX. I got assigned to the 115th MI Grp in California, and one classmate was assigned to the 902nd in the basement of the Pentagon. We corresponded for the first year after Holabird and there was a basic difference in our daily work loads. As around most of CONUS at the time, most of our caseload revolved security clearances cases for aerospace or such workers. Dave, my classmate assigned to the 902nd said most of there work involved investigations concerning persons involved in both the legislative and judiciary bodies of the government in WashingtonD.C. Those were interesting times, as by the time of the Senator Church hearing in 1971 most CONUS work changed.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — May 10, 2013 @ 6:02 pm

  1001. Please, anyone who has some good 902d stories from the late 50s through mid 90s… please drop me a line at brian.e.jackson@us.army.mil

    As and alumnus and history buff, I’m looking for good anecdotes and avenues of research.

    Comment by Brian Jackson — May 10, 2013 @ 11:11 pm

  1002. Re: Msg #982. Jerry, arrived at Bien Hoa in early Nov. 70 after you had left. Assigned to a team down the road from the HQ where I remained until January and then went to HQ up the road where I worked in the S3 section. Flew into Xuan Loc and Vung Tau a couple of times, and also spent a “fun” weekend in Vung Tau.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — May 11, 2013 @ 7:50 pm

  1003. Re: Msg#1002 – Larry, who was with you at the team “down the road”? Was that 3AOX? I have some pics of our “home” would send them to you – need your email address. Our group always went to Vung Tau whenever possible…had some good times down there…the Aussies came to the unit there to do the beer and shrimp on the bar-b…we always drove up to Xuan Loc and Bear Cat. getthere2@aol.com

    Comment by Jerry Smith — May 12, 2013 @ 5:11 pm

  1004. Ref #999. Was assigned to the old 902d MI Group, Bailey’s Crossroads, VA for four years starting in April 1970. Great assignment. I ran polygraphs for the White House Communications Agency as well as other folks. A whole lot of freedom to operate and investigate. Basically had a world wide mission. Our office was the second floor of a shopping center, next to a great bar named the Iron Skillet. Truly the good old days.

    Comment by Don Clifton — May 14, 2013 @ 3:53 pm

  1005. Larry:
    Worked with Jerry Smith at 3AOX in Bien Hoa (my 2nd assignment) until Jerry left in July 1970. I stayed until the end of November 1970—did we meet? Did you know Jonathan Showe or Greg Aultshu? They were Jerry’s and my replacements at 3AOX. Did you know Joe Rutledge, the Captain there?

    Comment by Denny Nix — May 19, 2013 @ 7:48 pm

  1006. Ref Msg 614
    Bob – I glanced through all the postings and you were the only one I recognized from my Holabird class. You said you hoped for some emails but you didn’t give an address. I am at gerry.sand@att.net if you’d like to get in touch. Much of my stay at Holabird is just a blur now. Never thought I would forget any of my Army experience, but time has robbed the memory bank. If you contact me maybe two great minds can work together to recall some things.

    Comment by Gerry Sand — May 20, 2013 @ 7:40 am

  1007. IVE.ASKED THIS PREVIOUSLY, BUT DID ANY OF YOU WHO SERVED IN VIET NAM RUN ACROSS A GOOD BUDDY OF MINE NAMED EDWARD (ED) DIAMOND? HE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN SAIGON CIRCA. 1966-67. DONT KNOW WHAT INTEL. UNIT HE WAS IN WHILE THERE. WE WERE AT THE 526th INTC DET. ON OKINAWA ,63,64, PART OF 65. ENJOY READING ALL THE POSTS. BEN BURT: U.S. AND PROUD OF IT!!

    Comment by ben burt — May 20, 2013 @ 8:04 pm

  1008. Keep coming back and reading the posts and memories return. Between 9666 course and return in 1967 for 9668 and Advance Course, I had a time as instructor in the Intel Dept at Oberammergau. We supervised the German Language course on paper and also gave a CI/FO course for several weeks in conjunction with that course and separately for 2 weeks for non-language training agents around Europe; Maj Duke Dufresne, CPT Joe Scalia, LT Jack Hunter and I. We did an exercise in Munich and also a less elaborate one in Garmisch. Talk about great duty and funny experiences. The Personal Meeting exercise where a very experienced TAREX civilian had his contact sitting on a bench in the park in two (unexpected )feet of snow; another watched his DLD serviced from the bottom of a cigarette machine (magnetic box) by a five year old sheltering from a rain shower; and the best where a boy from the country swore his magnetic box was on a frame in front of a warehouse but had never seen a sidewalk elevator (I thought we would need medics as this tale unfolded and the class and instructors finally understood what out country boy did). I have a lot more but these popped up as I watch the Giants battle the Nats. They were good old days at the Bird, in Germany and even a bit in VN. Down one for MI!

    Comment by bob hammel — May 22, 2013 @ 12:00 am

  1009. 239 and 241. I was on that flight too. A backup generator failed as I recall. My assignment was not changed; ops with 524th in Can Tho. As I say I keep going back over these posts. Amazing. 247 also; I was with John Nisley at 24th MID in Augsburg, 1962-63 and kept in touch.
    John passed away last year.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 23, 2013 @ 12:59 am

  1010. Post 35, Gary Clelan. I was born and grew up on Williams Ave, out the old front gate across Dundalk Ave. My cousin still lives on Pine Ave, out the old back gate by the testing racks for jeeps I think. I went to St Rita’a until 8th grade in 1952 when mom married my stepdad (dad was Army pilot killed in tng accident in 1944) and we left for Cleveland. The old house at 112 Williams Ave burned down in about 1990 and two children died. I recall that as my wife and I were visiting from CA and I drove by the old area to see the Bird and the house, which had recently burned down. Sorry for late post but I am finally retired and catching up.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 23, 2013 @ 1:16 am

  1011. Msg #239 Pasquale Valles: you were assigned 525 Bien Hoa, III Corps…were you at HQ-Bien Hoa Army Base or one of the units at Bien Hoa (down the road from HQ), Xuan Loc, Bear Cat or Vung Tau? I was on the Army Base but not at HQ a year before…left in 7/70…any pics?…Denny Nix, Gerry Sand (Msgs #1005/1006) were there also…my address getthere@aol.com
    Jerry Smith

    Comment by Jerry Smith — May 23, 2013 @ 9:41 am

  1012. Msg 1008. Is that the Bob Hammel from 68-A-1 Advanced Course? I was at Holabird in Spring of 1961, Agent Course, and then in 68-A-1 advanced Course. Many good memories.

    Comment by Dick Yates — May 23, 2013 @ 5:51 pm

  1013. 1012. ’tis I Richard, after second retirement from real estate. Holabird to Nam to Germany to Nam to Monterey CA to Berlin to quit in 1981. Here in Monterey since. Drop a line to rhammel@sonic.net

    Comment by bob hammel — May 23, 2013 @ 11:53 pm

  1014. Post 504, Dan Tompkins. I was in the 9666 course and recalled Willie T Brickhouse, ABN, and 1LT when most of us were direct from IOBC and 2LTs. Remember the chopper crash but can’t recall where I was. Willie T was a great guy, always smiling. Sad. I had gotten out of Benning a few days early to attend grandpa’s funeral in Dundalk. Checked back into the Bird late and wanted DLI. Only opening was in Korean so I took it. A few weeks later, opening in Polish came up and I jumped on it. Probably explains my nearly 13 years in Germany and retirement of this Ballmer boy in Monterey.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 24, 2013 @ 5:37 pm

  1015. I have posted on this great site a couple of times. Here is a question I should have asked long ago….anyone here have information on the 588th MID assigned to 5th Special Forces in Nha Trang? How about B57?

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — May 24, 2013 @ 10:43 pm

  1016. Post # 1013/1014

    Bob…..what outfit were you with in Berlin? I was with JROC on Sven-Hedin-Str. from late 60’s until late 70’s. I was there as part of 66th MI Group, 18th MI Bn. – interrogator and spent lots of time at the Notaufnahme Lager in Marienfelde.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — May 25, 2013 @ 7:31 am

  1017. 1016-Gary. I was Cdr of OBB from 77-81. Read all your reports and my ops officers took action on some. Located between 766th and SSO in DCSI bldg. Can’t recall your COs name, something with Gs or Js (getting too old). Remember Dick Workman, Nick Meimaris, Homer Nagel? Get me going and I will recall various items.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 25, 2013 @ 4:01 pm

  1018. 1017-Bob. Was Bob Bell still there? I was in FKFT and did a lot of Poly support for OBF, and a couple of exams for your unit. I left in GM in July 1977. Like you I can’t remember some of the names I should. Have a great Memorial Day.

    Comment by Don Clifton — May 27, 2013 @ 8:35 am

  1019. 1018-Don, Bobbie was my best CO and a real blast. The parties he and Sue had were notable. Bad luck Bob passed away so soon after retiring. Dave Swenson was my ops off briefly then he was off to Munich and Nick took over. Rick Hutchison was great skills officer and worked with Bob on one of our hottest ops. I have a “going away” poster with all the names on it and will get it out of its stored away nook for a memory booster! Chick Little was CO in Fkt correct? I decided to pull the pin and he got the 430th job. We were dead contemporaries with same DOR from Ft Benning to the bird to Germany in 62; then later in VN together in 524th in the Delta in 71-72. He wrote my LOM on retirement; I was too worried Carter might be re-elected to stay in.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 27, 2013 @ 6:05 pm

  1020. 1019-Bob. Yes to bad about Bob. I got to know him well after he came to USAFCA at Meade. also knew Dave well. Remember Rick H. as he recruited me. LTC Gee had OBF when I left. I think Gladwin Patrick still had GP when I left. Seems like an eternity ago.

    Comment by Don Clifton — May 28, 2013 @ 1:57 pm

  1021. Gee folks, the acronyms need translation, please.
    From those of us not on the inside thanks.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 28, 2013 @ 4:04 pm

  1022. 1021-manny-I will start at 1016, you match them up! Joint Refugee Operations Center-Operational Base Berlin-Special Security Office-Commander or Case Office-Germany-date of rank-Vietnam-Legion of Merit-USArmy Counterintelligence Agency-Group- OK ?

    Comment by bob hammel — May 28, 2013 @ 6:55 pm

  1023. 1017 -Bob Hammel. I was just downstairs from OBB 1977 -1980. My immediate boss was Homer Nagel and the DCSI was Col Chaney when I left in 1980. I was the ODCSI action officer for Dick Workman’s operation.

    Comment by Ed Harris — May 29, 2013 @ 6:24 pm

  1024. 1023-Ed, we must have met in passing. Perry Cowgill was a good friend. Last I heard he retired and built a home on Vashon Island off Seattle. Homer-known to us as Der Schwerg, was a character. Only man I ever knew who won several thousand on the Lotto.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 30, 2013 @ 12:54 pm

  1025. Bob Hammel,

    Thanks for the translation. Was Homer the Zwerg (midget)?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 30, 2013 @ 4:23 pm

  1026. This is for 1015 Ron Mahinske. I was assigned to the 513 MI Detachment in Special Forces, in S2 at Nha Trang in 69. I don’t recall any 588 MID. B-57 I do know about. It was at Nha Trang in the Special Forces HQ compound. B-57 was the Project GAMMA headquarters and had its own compound within the SF compound. This group was involved in the Green Beret incident where a triple agent was killed. For more details I suggest you go to Military History Online and look up The “Green Beret Affair”. All the personnel in B-57 were MI.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — May 30, 2013 @ 7:34 pm

  1027. 1026: Thanks Jim. I was with the 588th. We were in the same compound/building with B57. The Montagnards lived in quarters right next to ours. A good read is A Murder In Wartime by Jeff Stein. It tells in detail the story of the triple agent’s killing.

    I was there a couple of years. It’s funny, but in all that time I never knew there was a 513th MI Detachment in the area.

    We went back and forth on assignment between the 588th and B57. Thanks for the response.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — May 30, 2013 @ 10:17 pm

  1028. 1025-Manny you got it!

    Comment by bob hammel — May 31, 2013 @ 3:04 pm

  1029. 1024: Bob, I recall coming upstairs to OBB on several occasion and I am sure we met at some point. If you had any requests for operational support from Dick Workman it would have come thru me.

    Comment by Ed Harris — May 31, 2013 @ 7:32 pm

  1030. Bob Cronin,

    I’d love to ask you some specific questions about your time in the 441st. If you would, please drop me an email at brian.e.jackson@us.army.mil

    Comment by Brian Jackson — June 2, 2013 @ 12:36 am

  1031. Was so happy to find this place. Had so many memories. I worked in the re enlistment office with Sergent Rosser in 1963 and Lieutenant Throne. I met my husband there who was taking the Army Intelligence Course at the time. We were married at the Fort Holabird Chapel. August 3rd we will be married 50 years.

    Comment by Fred and Jean smith — June 2, 2013 @ 4:55 pm

  1032. Has anyone ever run across Carl Liewert? The spelling may be off. He was at the Region 1 HQ of the 113th in Chicago when I met him. Thought he was an extraordinarily dedicated man and a good guy as well. I reported to him until I went to run the FO in Fifth Army GQ in Hyde Park. Happy trails to all you good people who served and serve the country so well.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 4, 2013 @ 2:43 pm

  1033. I was at the Bird from May 66 to Jan 69, 97D40 class, assigned to DODNACC at the Bird. Looking for anyone who might have been permanent party USAINTC during that time. I served as BG Blakefield’s driver, bodyguard, gofer, etc, for about a year. Worked in Ops, did riot duty, went to Chicago twice as spook with the 115th MI. Like to hear from anyone who was there during that period. Anybody remember the day somebody painted a white bra on the sphinx statue out in front of HQ circle? I was driving the General that day and when he spotted it, he just about went ballistic. MP’s, CID, everybody was out front dusting for prints, taking pix, etc. If anybody wants to communicate, just go to my website listed and send me an e-mail.

    SP5 Ronald W Griffith
    USAINTC
    Ft Holabird, Md

    Comment by Wayne Griffith — June 5, 2013 @ 10:35 pm

  1034. Regarding # 1032 message above I should have added that he was in Chicago in 1964-65. A very good man and I simply wanted to find out if anyone knows anything about him.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 6, 2013 @ 7:22 pm

  1035. RE: Message # 1033 above. The MI unit in Chicago was the 113th.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 7, 2013 @ 4:40 pm

  1036. RE: Message 1035 You are correct, of course. Time dulls memories. I dug out the one remaining envelope of stuff left over from that era and I still have the letter of commendation Col Walker sent back to HQ. Col Walker was a really nice guy. The only other thing that sticks out in my dim memory was that he hated the Pickle Barrel restaurant. He got very tired of dining there, I gathered.
    I am still wanting to hear from some of the guys at DODNACC. We were all merged into USAINTC Operations later on. Some names I remember below:
    PFC Sylvester
    PFC Blue-from Louisiana ?
    SP5 Bob Jenny-from Louisiana (chaplains assistant Holabird-not USAINTC)
    Lauren Andersen or Anderson from Minnesota
    Bill Gollob-New York Married Kathy (A WAC)
    Michael Henning-West Virginia ?
    Paul Knack-BG Blakefield Cook (from Detroit)

    would like to hear from you.

    Wayne

    Comment by Wayne Griffith — June 10, 2013 @ 3:03 pm

  1037. 82nd Aiborne Veteran Here (313th MI BN/deployed Iraq 1990 with 2/325)
    *Met a gentleman yesterday – June 11, 2013 at the Starbucks in Haltom City, TX (Beach Street). I was walking in and out several times as I was changing clothes in the restroom, just having interviewed for a job at a local high school. (I’m an Assistant Principal. **I kept noticing this gentleman’s insignia on his ball cap. Finally I approached him and asked if it was a MI insignia patch. He responded “you’re the first person to recognized this patch since I’ve been wearing it”. I don’t remember his name but believe that he said he was in WWII with an MI unit. He then directed me to this website saying that I’d meet others from the MI family. I wasn’t assigned to Ft Holabird. I was in the Army 1988-1999 with some great MI units. *313th MI BN of the 82nd ABN DIV (deployed to Iraq during Desert Storm), 408th MI and 747th MI in Panama, and 748th MI in San Antonio. Great times with the MI Guys!

    Comment by Ed D. — June 12, 2013 @ 8:42 am

  1038. Re: Msg. 1005–Denny Nix…I am quite positive that I worked with Greg in the unilat team at Bien Hoa. I worked with him until from sometime in Nov. 1970 until Jan. 1971 when I transferred down the street to HQ of 3rd Bn. I can not remember the name of the Lt. that Greg and I worked with. There was also a bilat team that a good buddy of mine was at next door..Mike Rod..who arrive around same time as me and was there for the remainder of his tour. There was a Captain I believe in charge of both teams..think his name was sometime like Sisson? Mike and I used to shoot some hoops as there was a basket in the compound between the hootches.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — June 12, 2013 @ 8:48 am

  1039. RE; POST 1037: ED D.; I’M THE MAN YOU MET AT THE STARBUCKS IN HALTOM CITY,TX. EVIDENTLY YOU MIS-UNDERSTOOD SOME OF WHAT I STATED ABOUT MY SERVICE TIME, I SERVED IN THE INTEL CORPS FROM 1963 TO 1966; 18 MONTHS IN THE 526TH INTC DET. ON OKINAWA;THEN 9 MO. AT THE FIELD OFFICE IN THE FED.BLDG IN DES MOINES, IOWA. I HAD PUT THE INTC PATCH ON THE BALL CAP AT LEAST THREE YEARS AGO AND YOU WERE THE FIRST PERSON TO RECOGNIZE THE EMBLEM. THIS FOR ALL READERS. WHEN I WAS IN DES MOINES MY OFFICE ‘BOSS’ WAS A LT. JOE MARVEL. JOE LEFT THERE BEFORE I DID. DONT KNOW WHERE HE WENT. BUT I ALWAYS WANTED TO BE AROUND IF AND WHEN HE GOT PROMOTED TO CAPTAIN; THUS HE WOULD BECOME “CAPTAIN MARVEL”!. SOME OF YOU SHOULD REMEMBER HIM!! BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — June 12, 2013 @ 4:36 pm

  1040. RE: POST 1039- Ben, my apologies about your time in the service. Was in a hurry and wished I could had talked to you more. “I’ll get down and start knocking them out for this now”. Anyways – thanks for your service Ben and great to meet you- Ed

    Comment by Ed D. — June 13, 2013 @ 8:39 am

  1041. What is the policy on granting clearances on homosexuals these days? I’m curious. I am totally out of touch. In the 1950’s they were denied clearances. Of the 90 agents working in the field in the 116th Detachment in the Metropolitan District of Colombia (it was a big office), it seemed that that 90% of what we did and what we talked about at parties involved gays. One guy joked, “If there were ten percent as many communists in Washington as gays, we would be in imminent danger of overthrow.” I remember that one whole department in the Commerce Department (probably 200 people) was made up of gays. Reciprocal recommendations and recruitment! Whenever we got a lead on someone there, we knew what was going on. One of my buddies had a big case on a high ranking officer in NSA who had been arrested by the DC police vice squad. Soliciting in a public john. He was acquitted in court for insufficient evidence. The agent took me along when he interviewed the judge later. He told us, “I can’t convict someone of such a terrible offense just on the word of a police officer, but I can understanding why you would not give him a top secret clearance in the government.” It did not matter. His clearance was not revoked. One day, I watched through a one-way window at NSA as a polygraph operator examined a young private (who flunked). The operators were all CID, E-7’s and E-8’s. Sadistic guys. Does this stuff still go on?

    Comment by Jim Downs — June 14, 2013 @ 3:04 pm

  1042. I was stationed at the WAC Detachment…worked for USAINTS later USAICS from 1868-1971. Transferred to Ft. Huachuca when to Intel School transferred. It was indeed a very special place…very unmilitary which worked well for me an my friends…we were all confused borderline hippies and draftees. I would love to be in touch with some of those folks,,,Lopez, Wills, Rivers, Oliver….it was the best of time and the worst of times…I love Baltimore

    Comment by Beverly McCormick — June 20, 2013 @ 8:27 pm

  1043. Correction…that was 1968 – 1971…feeling a little old I guess!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by Beverly McCormick — June 20, 2013 @ 8:28 pm

  1044. Beverly (#1042&1043),

    Just curious, how did Holabird differ from Huachuca? Seems like nothing much changed at the Bird from my stay in the mid 50,s and your era.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 22, 2013 @ 4:46 pm

  1045. Beverly (1042/43)

    What did the WACs actually do at the Bird? You were there when I came through for the Interrogators course in 1968 and I saw plenty of WACs at the 123 Club and around post, but I had none in any of my classes?

    Speaking of USAINTS……the first time I entered the main gate and saw the arch with USAINTS on it, of course I asked what the acronym meant. Some E-4 at the Orderly Room told me and I was mad! I thought “great. A college degee and the Army thinks I’m so dumb I need intelligence school”. I was an Air Force brat and didn’t know any better!

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — June 23, 2013 @ 5:38 am

  1046. I remember my arrival at the bird. I had just been through an all day bus ride. you guts from the 50’s remember them. I had been an sad day because of the news about President Kennedy, and his assignation. a festive bus had gone silent. it was a relief actually to get to holabird and some stability. little did I know I had more work lined up for me. because if was just out of basic, the new bunch (us) were chosen not clean and fire the cannon outside headquarters. as I recall we had to do it every 4 hours and then off. that went on for 3 days I believe. it was a sad and sober time in the life of many of us. Some of the ones not detailed to fire and clean the cannon went to dc. it was a short train ride away, all returned shaken and angry. fortunately we were able to turn the anger to resolve, and I am sure all of us became more dedicated to what we were about to do. it certainly seemed to make us more serious about our future.
    those were sad days, probably one of the most profound days in my life, I know I took things more personally, including my training and vowed I would not fail in my quest. I was one of the loneliest kids on the block having never been away from home. following the assignation, next came thanksgiving, and I was still away from home. because of the goodness of the heart of a local family I was able to enjoy a wonderful thanksgiving meal and their company, and take my mind away from the troubles of the world. I know it is a shame to say this, but I don’t even know what class I was assigned to. I know it was a B Class but I don’t know what the number was, I know it was from Dec196/January 1964 thru June 1964. from there I went to Monterey Calif. to DLIC from July 1964 ( I remember because I arrived in Monterey on July 4th 1964) and began language classes almost immediately. completed them in one year and in may 1965 I was of to Korea. From May 1965 to May 1966 I was in Korea, practicing what I had been taught in addition to some other disciplines that had been left off the teaching agenda.
    as they say improvise and learn. well, hope from all this someone can help me to connect thanks. j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — June 24, 2013 @ 11:49 am

  1047. I enjoyed your story about Fort Holabird. Same as you I got off the bus in Baltimore Md. after finishing basic at Fort Gordon Georgia. I had no clue where to go or what to do. I saw 2 soldiers getting into an army vehicle and approached them to as where Ft Holibard was and they offered me a ride as they were there at the bus station on business. They took me to the front door of the place I was to check in. It was the Armed Forces Examining and Entrance Station. (AFEES) All the draftees and enlistments came there. I worked in the preinduction section for 6 months then they transferred me to the enlistment section. I was there from January 1966 and was released from the army there in september 1967. Had a great time there, met many good friends and really enjoyed my 2 years as a serviceman. Would not have missed it for anything.

    Comment by Dan Davis — June 27, 2013 @ 9:12 am

  1048. I was turned onto this site by a fellow “Bird-Man.” Over the past few years, as a Private Investigator by profession, I took on the job of trying to locate those with whom I served at Ft. Holabird and DLISC-El Paso (Vietnamese.) I can report that in 2010 we were successful in locating 20 of our classmates from 68-B-6 at the “Bird.” We were all 97B’s and as a class we all ended up later at DLISC in El Paso for language shcool. (Someone else spoke of going to Korea-that was the Class directly ahead of ours…) Since locating many of them, we have now had two great reuinions-one in San Francisco in 2010 and one in Las Vegas in 2012. More are scheduled. Reading all of these comments brings back many memories…I totally forgot about the sub-shop and the bars on the “Block.” Great memories, keep them up!

    Comment by Russ Haig — June 27, 2013 @ 6:52 pm

  1049. Well, I’ve scrolled through all 1048 posts! Amazing. Scott Weldy #402 I was in the same 97D class in 1968. Graduated in Jan 69 and spent the rest of my 3 years in the 165th MI Co in Frankfurt. My memories of Holabird – that bloody bridge over Colgate Creek was slippery in winter. The Dundalk Dollies – great girls and one became a steady girlfriend while I was there. The steak subs. If anyone is interested I have the graduation program from 15 Jan 69 for classes: 69C4 (mine), 69B502 and 69DO1 listing all student names. You can probably contact me via the monitor as he has my email.

    Comment by Gil Gerhardt — June 28, 2013 @ 11:49 pm

  1050. Anyone out there from the 902 MI Gp, Washington, during the ’64 – ’67 time frame??

    Comment by Dick Yates — June 29, 2013 @ 12:01 am

  1051. I arrived at Ft Holabird in the Spring of 1971 after basic training at Ft Knox. I was part of the last Agent’s class (97B40) from Ft. Holabird. I first had orders to Ft Huachuca (sp?) that were changed prior to leaving Ft Knox. After graduation was assigned to the 66th MI Group and became part of the 5 member EUCOM Support Team at Patch Barricks in Stuttgart. TDY to many interesting places. While at Ft Holabird I was married and lived off base and was only there for the daily activities but I do remember those Dundalk Dollies!!

    Comment by David Hill — June 30, 2013 @ 10:17 pm

  1052. Re: 1046. You brought back some great memories just now. My parents (my dad, a Combat officer with the Big Red One in WWII and my mother, a combat nurse in Europe in WWII, where she met my dad-and who said military romances don’t work)lived close to the 108th MI GP at Fort Devens. They had me bring soldiers, who could not get home, to their house for all of the holidays. Those were some great times. They understood how much you sacrificed when you served. Enjoy Indepence Day-you helped to guarantee it.

    Dave

    Comment by David Edmonds — July 1, 2013 @ 12:56 pm

  1053. After ending my remarks (1051) and retiring for the night I was thinking back on those many posts before me and, like so many of you, I basic trained at Ft Knox where our every movement was directed and orchestrated and where the term FTA was rooted and tethered to that little 5′ 8″ Drill Sergeant who brought all of us to our knees wishing him less than well. As we all know, there was purpose in that psychological reformation of those 18 to 24 year old minds into an “Army of One”. It was necessary to bring “every mother’s son” to think, move, act and react as one. When we arrived our self awareness and self being was removed by cutting our hair, giving us uniforms, food, beds, showers and everything else necessary to make us look, speak and act the same. We were taught well. And then, arrival at Ft. Holabird where we were, for the most part, “untrained” in all that “military stuff”. Saluting had become an automatic and unthinking action but the first thing we were instructed in at Holabird was that there was no need to salute – for the moment and time we were students who just happened to be wearing uniforms. Two weeks ago I was relating the learning of guitar chords to learning to type. Before arriving at Holabird I had never typed but, as I related to my friend, there was this lady at Fort Holabird who could type 100 words per minute and couldn’t understand why everyone else couldn’t. I have never forgotten her lessons in the 42 years since then. After finishing the 97B40 class we gathered for our orders, most were to report to FPO San Francisco (Viet Nam) while my orders were to Munich. Upon hearing that I asked the Sergeant “Where in North Carolina is that?” I was quickly on my way to Ft Dix for movement to Germany for the next two and one-half years.

    Comment by David Hill — July 1, 2013 @ 8:05 pm

  1054. Re:#1053 David would that have been Mrs. Klicka. A Q space Semicolon P space. I’m only 30 with 40 years experience and I can still hear her voice ringing in my head. I was a lowly 97C. However, I did get assigned to USAINTCA G-2 for my entire career of 3 years. Funny they didn’t have a medal for fighting the battle of Colgate Creek smells.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — July 2, 2013 @ 11:59 am

  1055. Happy Birthday America. And to all Fort Holabird veterans and their families, stay healthy and enjoy the holiday. Hope to see a lot more posts in the future. I enjoy reading and re-reading them all. In the next week or two I am going to have lunch with a fellow soldier from the 502nd MI, Yongsan compound, Seoul. Have not seen him in over 40 years. I will keep everyone posted.
    Sp5 Mister Charlie

    Comment by charles goffredo — July 4, 2013 @ 10:58 am

  1056. Re #1054: Dan, I’m sure that is her but reading some of the earlier posts to this site some have indicated she may have retired at an earlier date. Because they were preparing to close Ft Holabird and send everyone and everything to Arizona they may have asked her to come out of retirement teach those last classes. There is no doubt in my mind it was Mrs. Klicka. 42 years after leaving Ft Holabird I still have several of my instructional and technical manuals!

    Comment by David Hill — July 4, 2013 @ 11:02 am

  1057. Happy 4th of July to all vets, Holabird grads and especially all you 96Cs.

    All the best everyone!

    Gary Miller

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 4, 2013 @ 5:59 pm

  1058. I recall that is KLECKA

    Comment by bob hammel — July 5, 2013 @ 7:05 pm

  1059. I recall that your recall, Bob is right on. I got carried away by the memory of all those keys clicking at Klecka’s direction.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — July 5, 2013 @ 9:47 pm

  1060. Going through the coordinator course in September – October 1965 I had a young attractive black woman typing instructor. I think her name was Robinson.

    Comment by Bill — July 5, 2013 @ 11:25 pm

  1061. Re:1060 I do believe the time frame is almost right for “Hey, Mrs. Robinson …” Hmm that can’t be right. No foreign nationals could take the coordinator course.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — July 6, 2013 @ 5:53 pm

  1062. Ref #1050: Mr Yates, based on your question I assume you were with the Deuce in the mid-1960s. If you’re willing, please contact me at the email address in post #1001.

    Comment by Brian Jackson — July 13, 2013 @ 4:43 pm

  1063. anyone with 502nd Korea 1965-1966 or Fort Deveins spring 1966. please contact at jhbone@att.net or jhbone@vaughnlawfirm.netr j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — July 15, 2013 @ 3:34 pm

  1064. Ref post 1063.. James I just sent you a message on your first listed e-mail address. My other message to the law firm did not go thru. HHC 502nd MI, Yongsan Sept 65 to April 1967.

    Comment by charles goffredo — July 17, 2013 @ 7:29 pm

  1065. Role Call ! A significant slow down of communication for a few weeks folks.

    Do any of you Holabird grads remember a club in Baltimore called “Hollywood Park”. It was somewhere near the old stadium.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 28, 2013 @ 3:49 am

  1066. Gary (1065),

    No, not really. Permanent party probably were probably less aware than “grads”? Or further along the road to senility?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 28, 2013 @ 10:13 am

  1067. Manny (1066)

    I’m just glad to hear from you. I was afraid that the PRISM program might have located all of us, and decided we needed interrogating!

    Glad all is well Manny.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 28, 2013 @ 11:03 am

  1068. Gary,

    What is the PRISM program?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 29, 2013 @ 10:45 am

  1069. Manny,

    PRISM is the program/system the NSA is supposedly using to “listen” to any and everyone. All over the news currently.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 29, 2013 @ 5:47 pm

  1070. at one time it was called “carnivore” j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — July 31, 2013 @ 4:05 pm

  1071. I recall hearing that name from the guys at Teufelsberg (ELINTS) in Berlin James.

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 31, 2013 @ 4:41 pm

  1072. Hey BILL BELAIS

    I have just found some Troop 486 photos, including our Scoutmaster “change of command” ceremony! Want a copy?

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Buley — August 1, 2013 @ 3:21 pm

  1073. Lots of 526th 9okinawa

    Lots of 526th (Okinawa) notes re 1964-65. Anyone interested, I can send e-mail with pic of Club Cobean staff having fun at a picnic. Just contact me at dbridges7@ca.rr.com with your request and address.
    Don Bridges

    Comment by don bridges — August 4, 2013 @ 5:04 pm

  1074. Obit in San Diego Union-Tribune for Merold Nyberg, retired CIC agent in 1967, once served in Frankfurt, Germany were he was active in Al Bahr Shrine activities. He lived in San Diego. He obviously was in Region III, 66th CIC, at one time.

    Comment by Jim Downs — August 5, 2013 @ 11:27 am

  1075. Wow, blast from the past. Went through the 96D course in late 1966, definitely a most “un-military” assignment… more like a college dorm, really enjoyed it. On to 15th MIBARS at Ft. Bragg, 525MI/45th MI Co. at Gia Dihn (1967-68) where we were treated to the Tet Offensive, then a tour with 5th Special Forces out of Bien Hoa (1968-69) Also attended the Vietnamese Jump School run by SF Delta, Det. B52 outside of Nha Trang.
    Names I recall, Jerry Birdsall, Mike Sams, Shoop, Billy Moore, Dick Szanik from Hawaii who saw snow for the first time at Holabird. Nic Nichols… Charlie Violett from Maine…

    Comment by Art Kretzschmar — August 14, 2013 @ 7:20 am

  1076. Refpost #284 (yes #284) I have taken to re-read the posts on this site. I was wondering if all is ok because there is a gap in between posts of Aug 5 and today. While reading some of the older posts there is a mention by Frank Stella (post 284) of a Col Elvin Dalton while he was stationed at Fort Holabird. I can tell you that the colonel was one of the finest men and officer that I had the pleasure serving under. He was my CO at the 502nd MI, Seoul Korea , I believe the entire time I was there from Sept 65 to April 67. Working at Bn Hqs I would see him daily and on occasion would drive him on his official business. His SgtMajor was a big man by the name of Stuckey, also a good guy. Just thought I would post this as I check this site often and I love to see new information posted. As previously posted I have re-connected with a fellow soldier from the 502nd after 40 plus years. He was in Company C ,I in HHC but both on the Yongsan compound. He will be attending my American Legion post BBQ this Saturday in Staten Island NY.

    Comment by charles goffredo — August 14, 2013 @ 6:41 pm

  1077. Ref post 1076. Charles do you know if Stuckey then went to Fort Bragg (CONTIC)(1969-1970) as a civilian? In fact is there anyone on this list that was assigned to CONTIC, Fort Bragg during that time?

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — August 16, 2013 @ 6:55 pm

  1078. Ref#1077. Daryl, I believe that I left Korea prior to SGM Stuckey, and I never seen him again. He was a huge man and one time myself and another soldier had to escort him to the infirmary when he had an accident, and I can tell you that it was no easy task helping him in and out of the jeep and into the ER.
    Charles Goffredo

    Comment by charles goffredo — August 16, 2013 @ 7:09 pm

  1079. Charles,
    The Stuckey I remember was very large with a flattop haircut. He was a department of the Army civilian during 1969-1970 but did act like a SGM. Good guy but grumpy at times. May have been the one you knew??

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — August 20, 2013 @ 2:03 pm

  1080. Daryl. Your description sounds like him. I forgot about the flattop haircut
    Charles goffredo

    Comment by Charles goffred — August 20, 2013 @ 5:56 pm

  1081. Got to Holabird in 68 right out of basic at Ft. Jackson. Went thru 96d course and wound up in 1969 in Nam with the 1st aviation brigade, 73rd surveillance airplane company in beautiful Vung Tau for a few months and then with them for the move to Long Than North. We read out imagery from Mohawks.

    Comment by Barry rostholder — August 20, 2013 @ 10:51 pm

  1082. Ref#1081. Barry, did you work with Special Agent Eugene Reed. He did Mohawks work at that time and came back to CONUS in 1969. Retired.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — August 21, 2013 @ 12:57 pm

  1083. I was at the bird in late ’70 and early ’71. Graduated from 97D coordinator class, then went to staff and faculty with ACD Advanced Course Department. Was on the advance party team with the relocation of Holabird to Ft. Huachuca. Went to 97B course there. Then name was changed from USAINTS to USAINTC/S which only added the term Center/School. Worked with the ACD again, sent to Vietnam, assigned to 525th MI Group, 575th MI Detachment, MACV-SID. I have a few pictures of the old Holabird, including a formation in front of barracks with raising of the flag, about mid 1960’s.

    Comment by Danny Butler — August 23, 2013 @ 10:35 am

  1084. Ref.#1042 Beverly McCormick, I was there during that time. Do you remember a Dyann Thiel or a Sgt. Medina? I was with the Advanced Course Department, and worked with Medina.

    Comment by Danny Butler — August 23, 2013 @ 10:46 am

  1085. re post 1076-col Dalton was dept of area studies(das) dept director while I was assigned to that dept at the school at holabird. I was there 64 til I ets july 67. I thought he was there the entire time I was there but I may be wrong. he was terrific, we all played volleyball at lunch together. his dep director was ltc tom hessler and maybe he took over partway thru my time, I forget, but they were both fine men.

    Comment by frank stella — September 2, 2013 @ 10:59 pm

  1086. What a great website. Read about half the posts and found most grads from the Bird are ’60’s and ’70’s. Aren’t many ’50’s left these days. I’m 85, so many of my class mates from Group B168,3Mar52, to 3Jul52 are probably deceased. Still have my diploma framed and on the wall in my den. Rummaged around the shelves in the garage and found all my old school manuals, notes, graduation notice and assignments. Most important, the complete list of all my classmates names and addresses at the time. 42 of us graduated PMOS 1301(Counter Intelligence Agent) 10 were RA’s the rest draftees.
    Would like to communicate with B168 guys if you are out there and have seen this site.Thank all of you for your service ladies and gentelmen. Louis Edward Francois Jr.

    Comment by Louis Edward Francois Jr. — September 4, 2013 @ 6:51 pm

  1087. re post 1085 Frank thank you for responding to my post about Col Dalton. I was curious to find out more info on this gentleman so I googled his name. There is a wealth on info on him, including his induction into the Intell Hall of Fame. On a sad note he passed away on 11/4/2003. His obit contains most of his assignments thru out his career, including mention of his commanding the 502nd in Korea while I was there. His service included wwll at Normandy. May he rest in peace. Thanks again frank for responding, I appreciate it when I can make contact with my fellow Holabird alumni.

    Comment by charles goffredo — September 4, 2013 @ 7:13 pm

  1088. louis (#1086):
    A few of us are “hanging on”. A hHappy New Year to all our “postees” of the Jewish faith and thank you for pulling so many KP’s over Christmas.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 5, 2013 @ 1:18 pm

  1089. Drafted Jan 25, 1951 age 23, Infantry basic Ft Riley, Feb-May. Ft Holabird May – Oct 51, Agent Training then safecracker school. Went to 111th CIC with assignment to the Atlanta Field office. there were 4 old timers there. I was married before I was drafted. A married agent was needed there to replace some guys who were retiring. I was in the Atlanta office from Oct 51 till separation in Jan 53, traveled North Georgia mostly. New agents rotated through the office for training prior to further assignment. There were only 6 regulars in the office. I have lost contact with the guys there. The ones my age (86) have passed on. About a week before separation 2 of us were called into the Old Man’s office. We were offered direct commissions as 1st Lts if we would sign on for 5 more years of active duty. Shepard a 6 year man accepted. My wife said no Honey, lets go back to the farm in Nebraska. A couple of us were offered positions with the FBI in their new counter intelligence division. I lived off base at Holabird on Brentwood Ave. I lived on Avon Ave in Atlanta.
    We were told that there were only 2,000 Agents in the army that were doing civilian assignments. I never did get back my dog tags or uniforms.

    Comment by Gene Chamberlain — September 13, 2013 @ 5:06 pm

  1090. Hello Fellow Birdman and Birdwomen,

    I was at the Bird in 68′ for Agent Course in ’68 and for the Photo Intell Course in ’70 before shipping out to the 502nd MI Bn in the ROK. I was the only true Baltimorean in my classes and remember alerting all of the guys to the great clubs in B’more.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander – September 14, 2013

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 14, 2013 @ 9:27 am

  1091. Welcome Phil (1090)!

    I was at the Bird in ’68 too – Interrogators Course.

    I went downtown a lot back then. Remember Judges and Hollywood Park – great clubs. I think it was Judges that had a slide in it?

    Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — September 14, 2013 @ 4:56 pm

  1092. Hi Gary,

    Thanks for your comments. Yes, Judges on Greenmount Ave. did have the slide. I remember going there before I was 21. My favorite spot was the Rhapsody Club on B & A Blvd. Great sounds and a great place to meet women. Individuals that I knew from the Maryland area that have connections to the Bird include: Smith, Prouser, Bianchi, Thompson, O’Connell, Kohler, Simms, and “Ditt”. Flash Gordon, Catonsville AFRS, was my Army Recruiter. Unfortunately, we lost him during the war. Today, Ft. Holabird is less than a shadow of its former self. The only building left is the Officers Open Mess. It is now occupied as a private club by the VVA Chapter 451. Their address is 6401 Beckley St., Balto, MD 21224. They have a site on the web. If you want a tour of what is left, go on Google Maps and key in their address. I read recently, where the manager of the establishment indicated that about 2 former Birdmen stop by each week to inquire concerning the whereabouts of the rest of our beloved fort. Clearly, we need some stronger connection to our past, as most of us are now in our sixties and even older. Maybe, a creation like this could be known as the “Fort Holabird Alumni Association” or the “Friends of Fort Holabird”. If you have any ideas, I am also on LinkedIn.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 15, 2013 @ 11:35 am

  1093. re post 1090

    Hi Phil,

    What was your Agent Class number?

    Ken Robinson

    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 15, 2013 @ 4:43 pm

  1094. Hi Ken,

    I haven’t a clue.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 15, 2013 @ 6:54 pm

  1095. Hi Ken,

    I did further research and found my Graduation Exercise pamphlet. My Agent Class was 69-B-16.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 16, 2013 @ 7:44 am

  1096. Phil,

    Your name rang a bell for some reason. I thought we might have been at the Bird in the same time frame, but my class was 68-B-20. We graduated in Oct. 1968.

    Ken

    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 16, 2013 @ 10:36 am

  1097. Ken,

    How did you like your experience at Fort Holabird and in Baltimore?

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 16, 2013 @ 2:02 pm

  1098. DID ANY OF YOU HAVE DUTY WITH A CO-ORDINATOR NAMED ,ROBERT DURBIN? HE WAS IN MY BASIC TRAINING COMPANY AT FORT POLK AND AT HOLABIRD WHEN I WAS TAKING AGENT TRAINING JULY 1963 THRU NOV.63. ROBERT WAS FROM ANNISTON,ALABAMA BUT HAD RELATIVES IN BALTIMORE AREA. WE WOULD RIDE MY YAMAHA MOTORCYCLE OUT TO VISIT THEM ON WEEK-ENDS. LOST CONTACT WITH HIM AFTER BIRD AND I WAS SENT TO OKINAWA;526TH INTC DET. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — September 16, 2013 @ 2:16 pm

  1099. Phil,

    Loved Holabird. I don’t know why the Regular Army let it exist. It was the opposite of every way they operated. The only thing I can think of is that the rest of the Army didn’t know the place existed.

    I didn’t spend any real off duty in Baltimore. I saved my meager PFC’s pay and went home to Pittsburgh every week end. I know more about Baltimore from watching “Homicide” on TV than from the months I spent at Holabird.

    Ken

    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 16, 2013 @ 7:52 pm

  1100. Ken,

    Ditto for many of us “permanent party” ersatz soldiers.

    Manny

    p.s. If we had an alumni association we could real reunions like the real soldiers, Could we be called “The Birdbrains?”

    Comment by manny adler — September 17, 2013 @ 5:27 am

  1101. Manny, Ken, and Ben,

    Is a reunion even practical? How many of you live in driving distance to Baltimore for a lunch get together? I have been a lifelong Holabirdofile. I was crushed when they bulldozed most of th fort in the early 70’s. imagine a post of 5000 souls, 60 percent of them active duty military. Originally, all we got out of it was the Holabird Raquet Club, a brand new building, that never caught on and was also eventually bulldozed. For many years, the USAINTC building held on. However, after about 30 years, it was eventually broken into and vandalized and then leveled. The 2 buildings where the Criminal Investigations Command was located where vacated and ultimately destroyed by a suspicious fire. The jeep test track has been landscaped into a park like setting. I could go on and on based on a file of newspaper clippings that I’ve kept over the years from the local paper, the Dundalk Eagle. The local historical society has extensive archives on the fort. It is located on Shipping Place in Dundalk’s village center.
    Phil Ostrander
    97B40
    Lifeflong Baltimorean

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 17, 2013 @ 8:30 am

  1102. I’m too far away to buzz down for a lunch and I don’t think a planned full blown reunion would work. Holabird is physically gone. What would we visit? I just tried to find the location on Google Earth. All I could find was a Ft. Holabird Park and nothing in the area looked familiar. Remember, most of us were there for 4 or 5 months forty or more years ago.

    What would be nice is reading those newspaper articles and the documents in the historical society. Do you know if their records are available through the internet? After all, now Holabird and our time there lives in our minds

    Ken

    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 17, 2013 @ 11:16 am

  1103. Hi Ken,

    I’m enjoying reading of your postings. I know that you guys are spread all over the country. I also know that there is not much left of the old fort. I particularly liked where you indicated that Fort Holabird lives on in our minds. No one can take away our best memories. However, there are still those of us who make the pilgrimage back just to see what remains. Also, I remember in just about every class, there was always at least one guy that met and married a gal when he was assigned here. Her family members most likely still reside here. So, there is always a hope that we might still get a small quorum of guys together. I will do some research with the local historical society and let you know what I come up with.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 17, 2013 @ 1:53 pm

  1104. Ken,

    The Dundalk Historical Society has just launched its web page this month, however, there is nothing on it about Fort Holabird. It’s address is: http://www.dundalkhistory.org. At the same time, I called their number and spoke to their president, Jean Walker. She told me that they had quite a number of newspaper articles and photographs in their paper archives about the fort. Unfortunately, one has to request information from their website via a Research Request. Copies cost 25 cents a piece plus postage. I spoke with her for about 15 minutes and wound up getting an invitation to speak before the society at an upcoming meeting on the history of the post.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 17, 2013 @ 4:21 pm

  1105. Phil,

    Someone should write a book about Ft. Holabird and the Army Intelligence community. Most people never heard of Holabird or us. That includes the rest of the military even when Holabird was active.

    Thanks for the information. Good luck with your lecture.

    Ken

    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 17, 2013 @ 5:13 pm

  1106. For twelve months in 1954-55 I ran background cases in Washington DC. There were 90 other agents in the 116th who did the same thing. Big office. Security was so tight at the NSA, Army Map Agency, some areas of the Pentagon, and other places that I can not imagine anyone getting through the gate like this guy at the Navy yard just did. What has happened? They used to run a National Agency Check on all security applicants — FBI, local police files at all former residences, HCUA, etc. In many cases the employee was given some menial work to do until his full background check was completed. In DC, that often took a year. When I arrived there in June 1955, there was a 5,000 case backlog. Executive Order 10450 was in full swing. Guys like Manning and Snowden never would have been cleared.

    Comment by Jim Downs — September 17, 2013 @ 7:58 pm

  1107. A note about Fort Holabird books, history and pictures:
    There are three very good books with pictures of the BIRD, 1950s, 60s, early 70s. The books are part of the Army Lineage Series, written by John Patrick Finnegan. They can be purchased on the inter net and can be found at some libraries. The first book is “Military Intelligence” 437 pages. There’s also “Military Intelligence A Picture History”,195 pages and “The Military Intelligence Story, A Photographic History”, 153 pages. There are a few Holabird photos in all three books and the CIC-MI history is a nice read. There’s also a Fort Holabird alumni page on Face Book that includes pics.
    RF

    Comment by RF — September 18, 2013 @ 7:45 am

  1108. Ken

    You are so right about publicity about the fort and its history. As of about one year ago, even the veterans group who owns the officers open mess building said nothing about the 30 year MI presence on their web page.

    RF,

    Thanks for your information about past relevant books about the Bird. At least our history is not totally ignored.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 18, 2013 @ 1:36 pm

  1109. Phil and Ken,

    You are so correct about very few army folks much less others having heard about Holabird or its purpose. I guess we are orphans. As far as reunions, again correct. Too few to scattered and to old (did I get all the “too” and “to’s” in the rights places. The only way this might work if all intell as well as Holabirdians were included (and perhaps Huachucans as well)?

    I enjoy the posts and yes it is a limp and shuffle down memory lane.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 18, 2013 @ 3:32 pm

  1110. Jim (1106),

    Snowden and Manning and how about the “good” Major Hasan.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 18, 2013 @ 3:35 pm

  1111. Ken, Manny, Jim, and RF,

    After all of this gloomy talk about our old memories about Fort Holabird and the lost MI Bn, I thought it might be a good time for some levity. My wife just purchased a birthday card for her kid brother who is turning 56 (oh to be 56 again.). It reads as follows: 2 guys your age go out to the bars at 10 on a Saturday night. One has 6 beers while the other has 3 beers and 2 shots of Jack. Who gets hammered first? Response: No one your age is out partying after 10 p.m.

    Phil
    Tajeon Warrior
    FayetteCong Trooper

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 18, 2013 @ 4:05 pm

  1112. Hi Y’all,

    In my complementary close in my last post, I should have said FayetteCong Hunter, not Trooper. The FayetteCong were indigenous personnel we were warned about when I was stationed at Fort Bragg, NC. The city adjoining our base was Fayetteville. This editor regrets the error.

    Phil
    FayetteCong Hunter

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 18, 2013 @ 6:48 pm

  1113. 50 YEARS AGO I MUSTERED OUT OF THIS MAN’S ARMY AT Ft. DEVENS. MY WIFE AND I LOADED UP THE 1966 FORD FAIRLANE AND TOOK OFF FOR A 10 DAY TRIP ACROSS NEW HAMPSHIRE, VERMONT, LAKE CHAMPLAIN AND INTO CANADA. TO MONTREAL AND QUBECK, DOWN THRU MAINE, CAPE COD, NEW YORK CITY, WASHINGTON, ONTO THE SKYLINE DRIVE, DOWN ACCROSS THE SMOKEYS AND BACK HOME TO GEORGIA. NEVEAR FORGET THOSE YEARS IN THE ARMY. THE ARMY GAVE ME MUCH MORE THAN THEY GOT FROM ME. 6 MONTHS AT THE BIRD, 12MONTHS AT THE LANGUAGE SCHOOL IN MONTEREY 12 MONTHS IN KOREA, AND 6 MONTHS AT FORT DEVENS. THOSE WERE ALL FOND MEMORIES. CAN RELIVE THEM IN MY MIND MOST EVERY DAY, AND REMEMBER SOMETHING ELSE OR DIFFERENT EACH TIME. WHAT A BLESSING AND PRIVILEGE TO LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY WHEN WE DID. GOD BLESS AMERICA. J. BONE

    Comment by james h. bone — September 19, 2013 @ 3:08 pm

  1114. Ref1113 James, well said. I tried to reach you on your listed email addresses, but no luck. I can be reached at mrg723@si.rr.com. 502nd MI Bn sept 65 to April 67, HHC Yongsan compound. Please contact if you want to bs a little about the 502nd.
    SP5 Mister Charlie

    Comment by charles goffredo — September 19, 2013 @ 7:22 pm

  1115. I was stationed at the Bird from 0ct. 65 until Jan. 66 (97D Course) and from Jan 68 to May 68,(97B course) love to hear from anyone who might remember me. I am also trying to locate a Mary Tilman who was also stationed at the Bird as permenant Party.

    Comment by Bill Morrissey — September 20, 2013 @ 10:59 am

  1116. Ref 1115 Morrissey. Were you an E-5 in the agent class?
    Gordon Cooper

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — September 20, 2013 @ 5:48 pm

  1117. JUST A COMMENT RE; FORT HOLABIRD BEING AN AMOST”ANONYMOUS” PLACE. IN JULY 1963 I RODE MY BRAND-NEW YAMAHA 250CC MOTORCYCLE FROM FORT WORTH, TEXAS TO BALTIMORE TO ATTEND AGENT TRAINING AT THE BIRD. WWHEN I ARRIVED INTO THE CITY I STOPPED AT A GAS STATION. I ASKED THE ATTENDANT IF HE COULD DIRECT ME TO FORT HOLABIRD. HE SAID” NEVAH HEARD OF IT”. I THEN ASKED IF HE KNEW WHERE DUNDALK AVENUE WAS. THERE WAS A BIG MAP OF THE TOWN ON THE WALL AND HE POINTED TO A SPOT. I THEN ASKED HIM HOW TO GET THERE. HE TOLD ME AND I HOPPED ON MY SCOOTER AND RODE AWAY; THINKING JUST HOW BIG OR SMALL THIS PLACE COULD BE. I SOON FOUND OUT!. in nov. 63 AFTER THE ASSASSINATION OF PRES. KENNEDY, AND KNOWING I WAS BEING SENT TO OKINAWA I GOT A FIVE-DAY PASS FROM THE COMMANDANT; RODE THE BIKE BACK TO TEXAS AND THEN FLEW BCK TO BALTIMORE. NOW HOW MANY OF YOU WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME?? BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — September 24, 2013 @ 4:19 pm

  1118. well, I guess the best thing we can say about our job, is that if we did it well no one else would know we were or had ever been there. j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — September 26, 2013 @ 1:46 pm

  1119. Ref.#1117

    Ben that was one heck of a ride considering 4 days to get there and 1 travel day back to the bird! Your butt must have ready for re-surfacing! The time constraint makes it more impressive, Kudos.
    Ed (187)

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — September 26, 2013 @ 7:05 pm

  1120. Ben, As I remember, a 250 only went about 60 at best. I had a 30 day furlough from basic and had to wait 30 days working in the school basement before I could begin the agent class all cuz I was not 21 yrs of age. So when I left the bird I really did’nt know much about the army , it all just seemed an extention at the university. I lived in southern california and took military hops to get to Holabird, so I can’t imagine a 250 going that far. We were all so lucky.

    g.cooper

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — September 26, 2013 @ 8:49 pm

  1121. EDWARD & GORDON; YES MY BUTT GOT SORE AND TIRED! I CRUISED AT 65 MPH. NO PROBLEM. THE BIKE WAS RATED AT 25HP @ 7500 RPM. NO STRAIN ON THE ENGINE EVEN THOUGH IT HAD LESS THAN 100 MILES ON IT AT START OF MY TRIP OF 1,650 MILES. I HAD RIGGED A PLATFORM ON REAR PORTION OF THE SEAT TO CARRY MY LUGGAGE THUSLY I COOULDNT SCOOT BACK TO CHANGE RIDING POSITION. MADE TRIP IN 3 & AHALF DAYS ALSO WHEN I RODE IT BACK TO TEXAS IN WINTER TIME I WENT DOWN EASTERN SEA-BOARD TO GEORGIA THEN HEADED WEST. THIS TRIP WAS 1,850 MILES BUT I RODE LONGER IN DAY-LIGHT AND MADE IT ALSO IN 3 AND ONE-HALF DAYS. I’VE HAD MUCH BIGGER BIKES SINCE BUT HAVE NEVER MADE SUCH A RIDE SINCE!.THANKS FOR YOUR INPUTS. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — September 26, 2013 @ 11:12 pm

  1122. Super great website.

    Comment by John Washington — September 30, 2013 @ 8:24 pm

  1123. 1115, Morrissee: I remember you as one of the returning vets as most of us were E-2’s out of boot camps. There were three E-5’s to E-7 marines in our class. Most everyone went onto that 52 week vacation in Texas for language before moving on to Nam. I was the one who attended class but mostly ran before and after school and later sent to the services track team in Los Angeles.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — September 30, 2013 @ 9:20 pm

  1124. I was stationed at Ft Holabird from Feb 69 to April 71.Beverly Mc Cormcik was one of my best friend I am
    glad that I found her she from Pittsburg Pa. GO PIRATES//I would like to know what happened to all my
    friends from the WAC Detachement Irene Rivers,LOPEZ,OLIVER,ect//// this was a great group of girls that have fun and work together. I am keeping in touch with CARMEN ZABALA and ANN DASSATT. CARMEN MEDINA
    i remember her,chyryl muto ect/// I work in the mailroom and the library at USAINTS i love that joj.
    i work with MRS KLECKA a great lady and wrote to me every month i still have her letters. mac give a call
    or write so we keep in touch.i love my job/// my first
    movie was the night of living dead and rivers and mac
    scare the hell out me.please happy memories to all of you.happy halloween TERESA BATTLE///////////////

    Comment by Teresa Battle — October 1, 2013 @ 12:03 pm

  1125. One of the “old-timers” at Holibird. Arrived from Camp Blanding, FL Oct. ’45 and transferred to 470th in Panama Canal Zone in Jan ’46. Had an introductory course in Japanese and then sent to a Spanish speaking country, where I operated in plain clothes, private car and private quarters. I recall the “Tooterville Trolley” and marching with cadence and whistles at the gals at the stop. Discharged in Dec. 1946. Great memories and enjoyed this site. Thanks.

    Comment by Ralph L. Crowell — October 15, 2013 @ 11:33 am

  1126. Ralph(#1125),

    Welcome aboard (the “Tooterville Trolley??”). How did you swing a one year, two month term of enlistment (draft)? Good show.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 15, 2013 @ 5:13 pm

  1127. I googled the name of a former colleague and found this goldmine of memories. Federal Yeast and Collgate Creek were my memories from Oct 65 to May 66. I was in the B-14 class afternoon shift. I worked in the Central Clearance facility and the Reserve Finance center while waiting for class.
    We had a SFC (polish name) who could not speak or write standard English as our class leader for about four weeks. He was replaced by a Marine E-6, Jim A- who kept us guessing when he gave us orders in Marine speak.
    I spent most of my career in Europe and recognized many of the names mentioned in prior comments. Thanks for the memories.
    bob dukelow – now gardening and writing fiction in Gilbert AZ

    Comment by bob dukelow — October 17, 2013 @ 9:59 pm

  1128. Any and All of you,

    Have any of you by chance been watching “The Nazi Hunters” on the MILITARY HISTORY channel? So far not a mention of the CIC’s role (the OSS,CIA, etc., no CIC). Didn’t they do the bulk of the work after WWII? Any ideas folks.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 18, 2013 @ 3:32 pm

  1129. Searched for information on Ft. Holabird and found this site. A great read. I was at Holabird following induction into the Army at Upper Marlboro, MD. This would have been in August 1968. It was here while washing windows and waiting for an assignment to Basic training that a SGT asked if I wanted to take a test to see if I was qualified to attend OCS. After only a few days in the Army washing windows and picking up buts, I jumped at the chance. From Holibird I went to Ft. Bragg, NC for basic training and then to Ft. Sill, OK to become a Fire Direction Officer. After almost a year I was given an OCS class date at ft. Belvoir, VA for Engineering OCS.

    Comment by Bill Wahl — October 22, 2013 @ 1:17 pm

  1130. Discovered your site a couple of days ago, it brought back a flood of memories. I arrived at Holabird in December of 1965 and graduated from the 96B20 analyst course on March, 4 1966. After graduation I was assigned to Headquarters Company USAINTC and spent the rest of my service at Holabird reviewing case files. I arrived a private and departed a SP5. Major John Kenyon was our company CO and First Sergeant Allen was, besides our company First Sergeant, our nemesis (although easily outwitted). As others on this site have recalled I remember the bouncy bridge over Colgate Creek, the smell that emanated from the nearby Federal Yeast factory, the WWII Jeep test hill, the Harley House (home of the “Harley Burger”) and the Holabird Inn (both were my go-to eateries when the 110 Mess Hall was serving something I didn’t like), the four big Seagram’s whiskey aging warehouses on the other side of Dundalk avenue and the wooden trestle railroad bridge whose tracks lead right to them. I have many fond memories of “The Bird” and the friends I served with. Other then memories I still have my uniform with the gray, blue and yellow USTAINTC sleeve insignia, a couple of my USAINTS lesson handouts, USAINTS graduation certificate, USAINTC pass and meal card, and three 8 by 10 photos of myself and other members of our company taken by a base photographer during our annual IG inspection. In 1978 I made a trip back to Holabird but by then it was abandoned, overgrown with weeds and mostly torn down, although I did manage to take pictures of some of the remaining buildings, including the headquarters building in front of which was just the base of our MI Corps symbol, the golden lady sphinx. I would often walk down Dundalk avenue to see a movie at the Strand theater in the Dundalk shopping center and that was still there in ’78, but so much had changed even then. My best wishes to all who served at “The Bird”. Keep her memory alive!

    Comment by Terry Sandman — October 23, 2013 @ 4:16 pm

  1131. Terry,

    Thanks for the post.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 24, 2013 @ 5:19 am

  1132. Does anyone remember an officer of high rank being demoted to private and working as a janitor in the basement of the school. I forget the sergeant- major who ran the school when I was working there in Jan 1968 waiting to turn 21 so that I could start the course. The seargent major told me to stay clear of the older private as he was nearing retirement. Of course like everything else about Holabird, what was true or not was always in question!

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — October 24, 2013 @ 5:54 pm

  1133. I believe sergeant major O’Rourke was there around that time.

    Comment by Bill Leach — October 24, 2013 @ 11:20 pm

  1134. I served at Holabird from 69-71. I worked in the Command building basement in the Badges and Credentials office; was a 97D. Those few years were a wonderful time for me. So many of the ‘staples’ of that place are as clear as a bell from reading about your memories: that bouncing bridge, the ‘creek’ by the WAC detachment, the trestle that we weren’t supposed to walk on, the pool, etc. The stench of the creek got to us so we finally moved to the little apartments about the bar on the corner of Holabird and Dundalk. What a view! I had no idea all of this info was here; so many great things to read about and remember. Thanks for putting it all together.

    Comment by Dianna Brewster — October 26, 2013 @ 8:43 pm

  1135. Jerry Smith (#982) gave me this site. Steve Schein (#153), Larry Hamilton (#292), Denny Nix (#1005) have a few things in common. All of us served in RVN with 3rd Bn, 525 MIG and our tours overlapped. I got to Holabird, Jun 69 via Ft. Dix (Jul-Nov 69, BCT and AIT Infantry), .Ft. Belvoir (Jan-Jun 69, Engineer OCS). I completed the Tactical Intel Course (MOS 9301) Jul 69. My punishment was assignment as a BCT training officer at Ft. Polk (Aug-Dec 69). I served in the 3rd Bn Jan 70-Jan 71). Among my duties I can speak about, I served as S1, pay master and ban man. I ended by active duty as Deputy G2, Ft. Dix. Jerry and I connected earlier this year by email. I also connected by phone with Dave Hoster, who was S4 for the 3rd Bn. Cheers to my MI brothers. IHOR (Iggi)

    Comment by Ihor Husar — October 29, 2013 @ 11:47 am

  1136. I was at the Bird from Jan 66 to April 66 in the agent class. At that time the unofficial reading list, other than Play Boy, contained a book called “Pardon Me You Are Stepping On My Cloke and Dager” any way that is what I remember it being called. Does anyone else remember this and am I correct on the mane. Cant remembe a thing that was in it but on reading some of the posts on the site it just poped into this old rusty mind.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — November 1, 2013 @ 3:02 pm

  1137. (1136) I remember reading the book. Very funny account of the author’s OSS training and assignments. Supposed to have been based on true events.

    Comment by Don Clifton — November 1, 2013 @ 3:47 pm

  1138. This lady Mrs Klecka was FT holabird everypne knew her. Wondelful lady i work for her and i enjoy her company. This site about Ft holabird is very educative and please anyone in chart of this site please send Beverly Mc Cormick my e-mail address or have her to write in here a note to me. HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO YOU ALL LOVE TERESA//////////

    Comment by Teresa Battle — November 3, 2013 @ 12:48 pm

  1139. God bless all those Marines who saved our lives. Happy Birthday USMC.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — November 10, 2013 @ 10:34 am

  1140. God Bless all fellow Holabird graduates and Intel Brotherhood on this Veterans Day!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary — November 11, 2013 @ 2:46 pm

  1141. God Bless all fellow Holabird graduates and Intel Brotherhood on this Veterans Day!

    Comment by Gary — November 11, 2013 @ 2:47 pm

  1142. Here’s to all fellow Holabird graduates and Intel Brotherhood on this Veterans Day!

    Comment by Gary — November 11, 2013 @ 2:49 pm

  1143. Happy Veterans Day to all of you!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2013 @ 5:22 pm

  1144. Checked in at this site (187) exactly 4 years ago today. A great find of my Holibird associates and their comments. May all of you enjoy this Veterans Day.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 11, 2013 @ 7:30 pm

  1145. Although not specifically about Fort Holabird, google both ACICV and NCICA for CIC information.
    Bernie Thielen [1956 at Holabird]

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 11, 2013 @ 8:16 pm

  1146. Good day Bernie, when is the next get together with the OC group?

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — November 12, 2013 @ 1:08 am

  1147. To all my fellow Holabird grads and all others in the Brotherhood of Intel……
    Happy Veterans Day

    Gary

    Comment by Gary — November 12, 2013 @ 2:24 pm

  1148. Gordon, Dec. 7 at Stan’s house. He wanted your e-mail address after your Katella Deli attendance. Get details at: stan83@live.com

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 12, 2013 @ 7:38 pm

  1149. Great stories about “The Bird”.. stumbled on this web site and have been reading for two hrs straight!
    Was at Ft. Holabird from 3/69 to 8/69 as a 97B40.
    WO4 John Connolly was an instructor along with actors
    Peachy Keen and Peter Poor..
    Fond memories….Holabird Inn and next store another
    beer and crab joint..we called Sleazy´s bar….simply because it was so run-down.
    Peter Mather was in my class and had a famous relative
    Cotton Mather.Pete was from LA and had attended UCLA…
    have been trying to find him since military service.

    Also, I was stationed at 108th MI Hqts
    Fort Devens, Ma from Aug 69 thru Apr 71.
    Does anyone remember Andrew Anderson, Kevin Malloy,
    Ken Murphy, Dennis Kriebel, Jim Edwards?
    Also, 1Lt. Anderson, Cpt Bateman, LtC Catalano,
    Maj. Thrasher
    If anyone knows these gentlemen or their whereabouts
    pls contact me at burnskng@gmail.com.

    Dennis Burns

    Comment by Dennis P Burns — November 15, 2013 @ 6:41 pm

  1150. I was at Holabird from Jan 64 to June 64. Came straight from Camp Lejeune along with two other Marines Holabird was a huge improvement over Lejuene. Went through the image interpretation course, then was made a company clerk. Had a great time, learned a lot, never used any of it.

    Comment by Tom Rosdick — November 21, 2013 @ 3:20 pm

  1151. THIS IS ANOTHER “DID ANY OF YOU KNOW…”. EDWARD M, DIAMOND? THIS WOULD BE AROUND 1966 IN SAIGON. HE AND I WERE BUDS AT THE 526TH INTC DET ON OKINAWA PRIOR. WE BOUGHT AN OLD 1953 MERCURY TOGETHER FROM A DEPARTING LT. FOR $300 AND DROVE IT ALL OVER THE ISLAND DURING OUR FREE TIME. AMAZING THAT WE NEVER HAD A BAD ENCOUNTER WITH ANY OF THE LOCALS RE; THEIR SCOOTERS, M/C’S, TRUCKS, TAXIS(KAMIKAZIs),ETC. HOPE ONE OR MORE OF YOU ANSWER POSITIVE, THANKS. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — November 25, 2013 @ 9:58 pm

  1152. My husband was at Ft. Holabird from 52-53. If you knew him, please share your stories.

    Comment by Edward Perry — November 30, 2013 @ 10:55 am

  1153. My husband, Edward Perry was at Fort Holabird from 1952-53. If you knew him, please share your stories.

    Comment by Edward Perry — November 30, 2013 @ 10:58 am

  1154. I was stationed at the Crime Records Center (CIDC-CRC) from 1989 -1992- Desert Storm. I was the NCOIC of the Crime Records Center and worked for Bill Slunt. I had the opportunity to work for Mr. Brisentine one of the first polygraph officers in the Army. Ft. Holabird is now home to the Criminal Investigative Service and the Crime Records center.

    Comment by Mattox — December 1, 2013 @ 2:07 pm

  1155. This site came up while I was doing a Google search related to my “formative years” in Bremerhaven, Germany, and it has given me some new insight to my father’s military career. Unfortunately, my father passed away almost 30 years ago, at the age of 60, about 17 years after he retired from the Army. His name was Robert Jacobs (“Jake”) and he was at Fort Holabird from December 1956 through December 1958. We moved to Dundalk from Monterey, after he finished a year at the language school (Russian). As others have mentioned, his military records, from enlistment in the Marines (1941-1946), Army reserves (1946-1950) and regular Army (1950 to 1967) are less than “thin”… only three pages. When I was a teenager at the DOD school in Bremerhaven I was told by a classmate’s high-ranking father that “there is no Fort Holabird in Maryland, you must mean Fort Meade”. In December 1959 we moved to Tucson where my Dad was a student at the University of Arizona (something to do with electrical engineering?). That was followed by six weeks living in a trailer in the desert at some mysterious place called Fort Huachuca that we were told about but never saw. In September 1960 my Dad left for Germany (Oberursel) and then in December of that year, despite a ban on dependent travel instituted by Eisenhower, the family joined him in Bremerhaven. We were there a total of six years (with an 18-month break stateside when he was a “resident agent” in California). Many of the “guys” in his unit (I remember the 513th, 66th CIC, but that’s it) in Bremerhaven were younger than my Dad so maybe some of them are still around. All we knew back then was that daddy didn’t wear a uniform, went away from home frequently for no apparent reason, and carried a gun in a shoulder holster. The guys he worked with referred to themselves as “spooks” and when we left Germany he was given a hand-carved statue of a “cloak and dagger” figure, which Mom called “the spook”.

    On a personal note, I now wonder if “Miss Klecka” was behind his insistence that I learn to “touch type” at the age of 11…by the time I was 13 I could type over 100 WPM and it was a skill that has proven to be immensely useful over the past five decades!

    Comment by SUSAN JACOBS — December 4, 2013 @ 11:35 am

  1156. happy holidays to you wonderful people,keep on writing,very interesting site,MARRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR 2014///////

    Comment by Teresa Battle — December 6, 2013 @ 1:36 pm

  1157. Just re-read first year’s posts. Very nostalgic. Recently tried to describe the bird to some civilians. They thought I was just some old guy gone delusional. One of my life’s most unique experiences. I know many of you cherish them as I do. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and anything else you celebrate too.

    Comment by Dave — December 13, 2013 @ 1:24 pm

  1158. Teresa(#1146),

    And the same to you and all our “postees” (or is it “posters”?). Postees sounds like a cereal and posters aren’t people. OK analysts, ago to work.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 13, 2013 @ 5:16 pm

  1159. Holobird
    After basic training I was given a short leave. After Leave I drove from home in New Jersey to Fort Holobird and parked my car outside the fort. I was still in basic training mode and did not know whether I could have a car at the school. To my delight the admissions sergeant asked me if I had a car and gave me a decal for parking on post. The entire cadre at Holobird was friendly and helpful to the students.
    On the first day of classes we marched in formation over the bridge over Colgate Creek. We tried to bounce that bridge as high as we could from then on and from then on our nickname for Fort Holobird was “college on the Colgate.” Our first typing class was on that first day of classes. That woman, who looked like a sweet old grey-haired lady, was very serious about typing and typewriters. Some of us were more afraid of her than the other instructors. Periodically they put us on fatigue duty on Saturday. We policed the fort and occasionally moved furniture or painted. They warned us to stay a certain distance from the CRF (Central Records Facility) fence. Mostly I remember studying hard and gathering a large amount of information. They strongly emphasized security and secrecy.
    A short time after I arrived at Fort Holobird they called me in for a re-interview. Three men in suits watched me closely and said that there was no record of my having worked at a company that I had listed as having worked for during two summers in high school. I was very frightened. I saw myself in fatigues in some awful place for the next three years. We discovered that the agent had gone to the wrong building. The company maintained two buildings in that town. One was an office building and the other was a warehouse on the other end of town. I gave them the correct address and heard no more about it. That is how I became aware that the army was very serious about background investigations.
    For the first seven weeks of our course we were fifty students. On the 8th week we were forty-nine. They never told us what had happened. The rumor was that he had ventured too close to the CRF facility fence and three men came out of CRF and took him inside and he was now on guard duty in Alaska. Who knows what the truth really is.
    After a while I found East Baltimore Street. I had a drink at every strip joint on the street. It took me several weekends to do that. I did not know that there were so many shapes, sizes and ages of strippers. There were some things I saw that I will not reveal. It was almost as much of an education as the MI courses. I understand that area is now a playground on the waterfront for children.
    Our surveillance course taught us how to watch and see without appearing to look and other techniques. We learned the three man system. The point man following the subject, a man behind the point man watching the subject and seeing that no one followed the point man and a man across the street watching the subject, the point man and the follower. It is for city following and has the advantage that no matter which way a person turns the configuration adjusts. If the subject turns right, the point man becomes the man across the street, the follower becomes the point man and the man across the street becomes the follower.
    We had a practical exercise. We formed into three man teams. They instructed each team to go to a certain place in downtown Baltimore at a certain time and pick up the subject. They gave us a detailed description of the man we were to follow and we were to be graded on our performance. Our team did OK. We were critiqued afterwards and one team did not do well. Not only did they miss their man, they picked up someone else and followed him around Baltimore until he spotted them and confronted them. He asked them why they were following him and the team leader said “I thought you was my friend.” Somehow they got back to the “bird.”
    About five years after my discharge-my observation skills not yet eroded-I was walking up Fifth Avenue in New York City. Way up the street I saw Jim Clayton walking toward me. I soon discovered the man he was following and the other two men on his surveillance team. As I walked by Jim saw me and his eyes looked startled. I did not acknowledge him, walked past and did not turn around. That was my last contact with Military Intelligence.
    The practice interviews in front of the class were loads of fun if you were not the interviewer. When my turn came I was very nervous and was repeating LIDMAC (loyalty, integrity, discretion, morals, and character) over and over in my head. After establishing rapport (remember that?), It went something like this:
    ME: “Do you know SUBJECT?”
    ACTOR: “Oh yeah! We went to high school together.”
    ME: “When did you last see him?”
    ACTOR: “Oh! About two weeks ago at the Tuck Away Motel.”
    ME: (after a pause) “The Tuck Away Motel?”
    ACTOR: “Yes, the Tuck Away Motel.”
    ME: (after another pause), “How do you spell that?”
    ACTOR: “Tee you see kay….”
    By this time the class was howling and I went on auto pilot. I somehow got enough information because I did graduate but I remember no more of that interview.
    Other memories: Pardon My AR was a publication of a list of phrases not to be used in agent reports. Some of them were very funny. One Monday in February the guys in area studies showed up with severe sunburn. Our instructor made an announcement that the microphones in pay phones were not to be removed. The telephone company complained that students were removing them to make makeshift listening devices. One instructor told us that one of our classmates had an IQ of 183. That is very high and very rare. When we did combat interrogations, they marked us down because the guy had a pill under a ring that we did not confiscate. When we graduated there were bleachers set up across the parade field for friends and relatives and I saw people there with long range lenses on their cameras. I assumed the KGB had our photographs.

    Comment by Bob Revay — December 14, 2013 @ 6:18 pm

  1160. 116th INTC Group
    Before we graduated, they asked us to choose three places in the states and three places overseas for deployment. My third choice was Washington, D.C. I received orders to report to MDW (Military District of Washington) Operations Support Group, Fort Leslie J. McNair in Washington, D.C. MDW Operations Support Group was the cover name for the 116th INTC Group. It was to be used for everyone, civilian and army personnel, outside the Intelligence community.
    Fort McNair is on the southernmost tip of Washington, D.C. and is the third oldest army establishment in the US with much history. There was a tall brick wall all around the fort and The Army War College was housed there in a beautiful old building. Outside the East wall was a long, two story, wooden, World War II temporary building. The 116th INTC Group was in the temporary building and down the hall were G2 and the 902nd INTC Group (We called it “The Deuce”).
    I started doing background investigations. The first time I used my credentials I showed a young receptionist my credentials first and then announced who I was. That poor girl turned red then white, then stood up and sat down. She was terrified. I felt very sorry for her. After that I Always asked if I could show my credentials. Printed on the credentials was the phrase, “All members of the military establishment are enjoined to cooperate with the bearer of these credentials.” The credentials held more power than I realized.
    I soon found out that we could travel 300 miles on the weekend without a pass. My home in NJ was 299 miles from DC which was about a four and one-half hour drive. Before I established friendships and a social life in DC, I spent many weekends in NJ. There were eight eligible young ladies for each eligible young man in DC then and we all had many dates with lovely young ladies so my weekends in NJ became fewer and fewer. I especially liked the many different restaurants in DC. I think foreign ambassadors caused food from their countries to be available in DC.
    There was a time when we came to the office Thursday mornings, turned in our agent reports from the week and received our leads to investigate the following week. What a way to be in the army! After about one year I came inside and was assigned to run the message center, and then the message center and secret control desk, then the message center, secret control desk and courier to the pentagon. I did that until my tour of duty was over.
    In August of 1993 the blacks marched on Washington for jobs and freedom. That is when Dr. Martin Luther King made his historic “I have a dream” speech. There was much consternation among the leaders in DC. They were worried about rioting and security. Most of the Special agents from the 116th and the 902nd were on the mall that day. They stationed me and a few others on a roadway leading to the mall. Our instructions were to count people and be available for any trouble.
    At 2:11pm Friday, November 22, 1983 they told us that President Kennedy had been killed and we were on full alert. I did not sleep for thirty-eight hours. Military leaders in Washington were afraid that it was the first salvo in a nuclear attack from the USSR. The next day they assigned us to the state department. They sent us to the state department building for our briefing. They told us that we would be performing protective surveillance for a foreign dignitary. They told us that we were to take the bullet aimed at our dignitary in our bodies. None of us demurred in any way at all. They gave us small lapel pins to be worn at all times and gave us a phrase and counter phrase to memorize. If anyone spoke that phrase to us we were to respond with the counter phrase and obey the orders of that person.
    They assigned four of us to Prince Contol of Cambodia. He went everywhere. We picked him up at his embassy, followed his limo and jumped out and escorted him to his destination. At each place like The White House and the state department building we turned him over to their internal security. When we returned him to his embassy, we turned him over to his internal security.
    He attended the eulogies at the joint session of congress. We escorted him to a room in the Capitol Building across the hall from the entrance to the Joint Sessions room. My job was to stand in the doorway and allow no one to come into or out of the room until further orders. I heard rustling from my right and a large group of men came down the hallway and went through the doorway in front of me. It was the House of Representatives. From the left came another group of men and it was all the senators. Then from the right came the members of the Supreme Court in their robes. From the left came Lynden Johnson, Bobby Kennedy and the cabinet. The whole US Government passed about twenty feet in front of me.
    If you watched the television coverage of the funeral of President Kennedy you saw many of the agents from the 116th and the Deuce doing protective surveillance.
    About twelve years ago I visited DC and drove to Fort McNair to see the old office of the 116th INTC Group. It was no longer there. The World War II temporary buildings were torn down. A field overgrown with trees and remnants of the blacktop of the parking lot was all that was left. I stopped at the main gate and asked two MPs, a lieutenant and a sergeant, if I could enter the fort. They refused me. We chatted awhile and I told them of my service and how it was in the 60s. The lieutenant asked me if I had a driver’s license. He looked at the driver’s license, warned me not to take any pictures and let me in. I was able to see at least part of the place where I had served.
    My decision to join military intelligence was one of the smartest decisions of my life. I never regretted it and to this day I feel honored and privileged to have served with so patriotic and competent a group of men. Some of my best friends at the 116th were Ed Botsko, Paul Lenakos, Thomas Mulcahy, Joe McCardle, Charles Often, and Bob Carnevale.

    Comment by Bob Revay — December 14, 2013 @ 6:44 pm

  1161. Glad to see there is renewed activity here! For graduates/attendees of the “Bird”, this site is the best!

    Welcome to all who have just recently found The Parkway Rest Stop.

    Susan – post # 1155 – I live near Oberursel now!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary — December 15, 2013 @ 6:47 am

  1162. Soon, I plan to check out the VVA Chapter 451 in the Holabird Industrial Park. They lease one of the last buildings left at the former Fort Holabird site. This is the former Officers’ Open Mess building. The organization is open to all veterans, not just those who served in the RVN. To be eligible for membership, you have to have served in the military, any branch, during the Veteran War era. Their website is: vva.org

    I will report back to this site.

    Happy New Year!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 15, 2013 @ 10:55 am

  1163. Just watched a YouTube video of a live Crosby Stills & Nash concert with them doing Suite Judy Blue Eyes! I saw them at the Baltimore Civic Center in 1968 while attending the 96C course. Great memories!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary — December 17, 2013 @ 8:24 pm

  1164. Dear fellow Ft. Holabird alumni,

    I wish you an early MERRY CHRISTMAS!

    You are a special and honorable people.

    Ed Hotchkiss (187)

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — December 22, 2013 @ 1:47 pm

  1165. JIM;I’M THE GUY WHO RODE THE 250CC YAMAHA FROM FT.WORTH TEXAS TO FORT HOLABIRD IN JULY 1963 TO TAKE AGENT TRAINING. I RECENTLY DUG OUT A COUPLE OF PIX;ONE TAKEN WHILE ON TRIP;THE OTHER IN PARKING LLOT AT THE BIRD. MY QUESTION IS; HOW CAN I ATTACH THESE TO A POSTING ON THIS SITE OR DO YOU DISCOURAGE FOLKS FROM DOING SUCH? JUST THOUGH IT MIGHT BE INTERESTING FOR SOME OF YOU TO SEE. IF YOU PREFER NOT; I UNDERSTAND, BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — December 23, 2013 @ 2:01 pm

  1166. To all of the veterans of Fort Holabird, both students and permanent party I wish to extend to you and your families a very merry Christmas and a happy and healthy new year. Also a special thank you to all of the persons who responded to my various posts thru out the year. It is because of these posts and comments that I keep coming back to this site, not only to reflect on the past but also to chat with some old friends and new ones that I have met. A special greeting to all of my fellow soldiers who served in the 502nd MI in korea. One last comment please take a moment and pray for the safe return of all of our troops stationed thru out this world . And to my grandson Charles IV who is spending his 2nd Christmas in the 2nd Inf Div on the DMZ in Korea grandma and grandpa miss you and we are so proud of you.
    God Bless everyone on this site and God Bless America.

    Charles Goffredo

    Comment by charles goffredo — December 23, 2013 @ 6:53 pm

  1167. Wishing all veterans and today’s active duty heroes and especially all Ft. Holabird grads and attendees a Frohe Weihnachten and Happy New Year from a proud 96C2L29.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 24, 2013 @ 9:02 am

  1168. Wishing all vets and today’s active duty heroes and especially all Fort Holabird grads and attendees a Frohe Weihnachten and Happy New Year from a proud 96C2L29.

    Gary Miller

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 24, 2013 @ 9:07 am

  1169. Charles (1166),

    And all the same to you and to Charles IV and all old and young troopers, active and in reserve, everywhere.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 24, 2013 @ 4:48 pm

  1170. Reference 895 from Jim Wasson. Yes, one and the same. I remember Jim Misch well. I recall that he was a homesteader in Korea. Ron DeComo did, indeed, die. Sad. He was a great TSCMer.

    Reference 1004 from Don Clifton. I seem to recall a TDY trip in which you were the polygrapher. I remember the guys all commenting that you were the best that CI had at the time.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — December 26, 2013 @ 2:33 pm

  1171. Reference 1017 from Bob Hammel. I was assigned to Berlin Brigade from 1969 to 1972. I remember Dick Workman and the OBB being on the other side of the “iron gate.” Has anyone heard from or about Dick Workman? I often wonder what happened to him after the Wall went down.

    Comment by Linda Mattheww — December 26, 2013 @ 2:39 pm

  1172. Reference 895 Jim Wasson. Jim. I just remembered: I have a photo of the Company B, 501st MI Battalion, Tech Team sitting in the office at Camp Coiner. It includes Jim Misch, but I can’t rmeember the names of the others in it. Would you have been in this photo? If you don’t have it in your collection, I can email it to you.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — December 26, 2013 @ 2:50 pm

  1173. I grew up in Catonsville. Joined Army thru “flash Gordon” Catonsville recruiter. He told me with my law school degree I could join MI and run around in a suit doing secret stuff. When I went to enlist at the Bird I saw a beautiful girl with black hair typing enlistments and told Flash Gordon I was leaving unless she typed my papers. He arranged it, we dated whil I was taking the agent course in 68 and during my 1yr in Korean language school in Arlington Va. We got married just before I went to Taegu Korea to serve with 502nd MI Bn. As soon as I got our house set up she cam over and we honeymooned in Korea . The best time of our life. God bless her she still puts up with me. She actually went on many affirs in Korea with the CIA and Korea Police. She even attended Kisang Parties. She should get VA recognition.

    Comment by charles w. simms — January 1, 2014 @ 12:20 am

  1174. Just exchanged New Year’s greetings with my old buddy at the 116th in Washington DC, Dick Murphy. He was in Section I upstairs in Investigations in 1954-56 while I was in Section III. I did crypto backgrounds and spent a lot of time at Arlington Hall where the NSA and ASA were located before they moved to Fort Meade. Dick later entered the Foreign Service, and in the 1980’s was Assistant Secretary of State for the Mideast. You all saw him on TV as he was a frequent guest commentator. We get together every couple of years in NYC where he and his wife live. We both passed the 80-year-old mark a couple of years back.

    Comment by Jim Downs — January 1, 2014 @ 3:26 pm

  1175. Am glad to see that this site is still active and the memories and stories all of you have written are so interesting. As I had written before I was in Holabird in 1967, haven’t been on site for a few years. I was born in Munich, Germany in 1947 and my mother was telling us about soldiers staying at civilian homes for a short time. That was at the end of world war 2, in any of your training courses did any of the instructors ever bring this up and why the few soldiers stayed with civilians? for information or just learning what they were going through. I worked in the Was Detachment for about a month and then was sent to type orders. Yes, Fort Holabird was an experience and I did work two weekends and Harley burgers…just to try it out. Was way to fast paced but the burgers were SOOO GOOD!!! Again back to my orginial questions was this ever done in other countries? Thanks would like to hear from you.

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio — January 4, 2014 @ 10:34 am

  1176. #1172 You were in in 1954 I just left a comment did you know of my question?

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio — January 4, 2014 @ 10:52 am

  1177. This note is to Manny you are in charge right?
    regarding my question #1174 thought that Jim Downs would have an answer. Is there any reason why intelligence would stay with families overseas? After the war 2 was over an army personnel stayed with my grandparents for a short while and all this was kept secret so of course I am curious as to why would civilians be asked to have them stay at their homes? Any history on that?

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio — January 6, 2014 @ 4:48 pm

  1178. How do I contact Jim Downs? Regards my father at Arlington Hall Station ’55.

    David
    Baltimore

    Comment by David — January 6, 2014 @ 10:15 pm

  1179. How do I contact Jim Downs? Regarding my father at Arlington Hall, ’55.

    David Ritchey
    Baltimore

    Comment by David — January 6, 2014 @ 10:17 pm

  1180. Alicia @ #638, Please contact me at clubnine02ATgmail.com

    David
    Baltimore

    Comment by David — January 9, 2014 @ 10:08 am

  1181. jim; is this website still going?Or has everyone justb ran out of things to say? CURIOUS! BEN

    Comment by ben burt — January 13, 2014 @ 1:37 am

  1182. jim; is this website still going?Or has everyone justran out of things to say? CURIOUS! BEN

    Comment by ben burt — January 13, 2014 @ 1:37 am

  1183. 13 October 1970. Ft. Holabird. U.S. Army….. Day 1
    That’s all I care to remember.

    Comment by Zero — January 15, 2014 @ 3:48 pm

  1184. For Kathleen Stevens. Your comment back in July 2005 caught my eye. I was there from 69 to 71. I worked at the command building, B’s and C’s. I shared half of the second story apartment over the establishment “bar” at the corner of the post with two girls, Margo and Terri. Could you be the ‘Kathy’ that shared the other side of the second floor? It would be great to find someone who was there that you actually know. I don’t think there were really that many WACs there at that time. The comment I found of yours is #38. My first comment is #1134, Oct, 13. Send along an email if you are the same ‘Kathy’ please. It would be good to hear from one of the girls I knew there. Dianna Brewster (Thornton) lizzybrew@comcast.net

    Comment by Dianna Brewster — January 17, 2014 @ 8:34 am

  1185. I am still trying to make contact with anyone that was a trainee in early 1961.

    Comment by Bob Quaglia — January 17, 2014 @ 11:11 am

  1186. I am glad to find this site. I recently filed for membership to The National Counter Intelligence Corps Association (www.ncica.org). If interested – contact James C. Cate CICSpook1@aol.com.

    I am currently 75 yrs old and retired from the US Dept of Justice (USDOJ) as a Supervisory Computer Systems Analyst, Dallas, TX.

    My Army active duty began in Feb 1962 and ended in Feb 1964.
    After several delays, I received orders from the Pentagon assigning me to Infantry Officers School at Ft Benning, GA. Since AIS was not yet a Branch, I was detailed to Artillery. I drove my 1955 Chevy to Columbus, Ga from Ft Worth, TX. Columbus, GA is the home of Ft Benning.

    It is said, during Post WW II, General Patton was base Commander at Benning. The local Fathers from Columbus put the town off limits to GIs from Benning. Patton soon put a stop to the curfew by driving his tank from Benning to the steps of the Court House and gave them an ultimatum. Soon after, they rescinded the Off Limits curfew…. However, I have been unable to verify the story.

    My BOQ was next to the jump towers used for Airborne parachute training. Each morning we saw/heard them going through their runs in full combat uniform/packs and later their parachute jumping. After the first couple of weeks, we saw some walking on crutches with casts on their legs.

    At Benning our instructors were Army Rangers. During training, I most enjoyed the combat tactics and maneuvers. While in College, I was on the ROTC Rifle Team. At Benning, I especially enjoyed firing/use of all the US Army weapons of the period including pistol, various rifles, machine guns, the 105 mm tank gun, hand grenades, rocket launchers, mortars, land mines, use of the bayonet, knife and hand to hand combat.

    My most memorable event at Benning was when a tornado hit the base. My unit was on maneuvers at the time in a heavily wooded, swampy area of Georgia. I specifically remember the high winds, heavy rain and lightning. I was wading the swamps with a PRC10 radio strapped to my back in all the lightning, thinking the whip antenna on the radio would make a good ground for the lightning. During the storm we saw Rangers demonstrating low level parachuting from helicopters.

    While at Benning, I was introduced to Bay Scallops at the Officer’s Mess which has become a life long treat for me.

    I completed the course at Benning and was to go to Ft Holabird as a Photo Interpreter (PI). I was pleased to be selected for the PI course, because I had worked several years for the US Dept of Agriculture (USDA) reading and plotting on aerial land photographs.
    The week before I was to report, I received new orders that 2nd Lts were no longer accepted in PI School, only Capts & above. I was given the option of CIC or Intelligence Staff Officer Course . Not knowing much about either, I took a SWAG and chose CIC.

    I reported to Holabird in April 1962 and the classes continued until August 1962. After processed in, I inquired as to billeting…. I was informed they had no Officer quarters available on post. We were given a quarters allowance. So, I got together with Richard Black (Brunswick, ME) and Andrew Aboytes (Amarillo, TX). We rented a basement apartment in a row house in Dundalk. It was awful crowed for three of us – one average size room, a kitchen, a bath, daybeds and Boiler Room in the middle.

    We had classes Monday through Friday and parade for the Commandant on Saturday morning. After we marched in the review parade, we had the weekend off.

    My roommate Richard Black had previously worked for a yacht builder in Maine. And, per chance, he had a 28 foot sloop in mooring at Annapolis Harbor next to the Naval Academy. The yacht owner told us while we were there to keep an eye on it for him. So, we did…. Every Saturday, after parade, we would take the yacht out sailing the entire Chesapeake Bay and return to class the following Monday morning. That was my first and only experience sailing. By the third week Richard and I were toasted and looked like lobsters.

    Occasionally we would go to Baltimore for Dixieland Jazz band music (New Orleans style) and the Acropolis for Greek music.

    One of my other memorable occasions was my constant run in with Major Tarbutton (phon) . He immediately took a dislike to me, or maybe his nature. Luckily, my advisor, Major Bruno Francasi (phon), ran interference for me. Major Francasi was a WW II “heavy weight”. It was said he had been with US Intelligence while on the staff of Benito Mussolini, Dictator of Italy, allied with Adolph Hitler.

    Like others have stated, I also have a vivid 🙂 memory of the (&@? !) Dundalk brewery smell and the aroma of Colgate Creek.

    Just before the end of Holabird, all the class was told we would receive overseas assignments, with the option to attend Army Language School (ALS), Montery, CA, extending our service for three years in order to attend ALS. However, in the last week we received notice…only one of us would be assigned outside of CONUS, a classmate named Borofsky assigned to West Berlin. We then had the option to withdraw our extensions, so I did. Both my roommates did not. Richard went to ALS to take Japanese and Andrew to take Egyptian.

    After Holabird I went back to Texas for a short furlough. I soon received orders assigning me to 4th Army HQ, San Antonio, TX. Two weeks before I was to report, I received new orders assigning me as a Intelligence Research Officer/Agent (9666), to the 112th INTC Group, duty station, Oklahoma City, OK (OKC). I worked out of the Federal Building in OKC the remainder of my Active Duty. Some years later, they built a new Federal Building next to the old one, In 1995 the building was truck-bombed by Timothy McVeigh.

    While at OKC, On November 22, 1963, I was working in the Oklahoma State Capital, announcement came that President John F. Kennedy had been shot in Dallas, TX. It is noted investigative information disclosed that members of my Group (112th INTC) from the Dallas duty station were in the near vicinity at the time. (http://jfklancer.com/knollagent/index.html). Reportedly, the 4th Army HQ ordered the 112th INTC Group (with much objection) to “stand down.” Some persons later interviewed stated they heard shots from the vicinity of the “grassy knoll” which was on the south side of the Texas School Book Depository, where Lee Harvey Oswald was said to have fired the fatal shots that killed Kennedy. Additional intelligence confirmed no Secret Service, FBI or any Dallas Intelligence personnel were on or near the “grassy knoll”…all part of the continuing saga of conspiracy.

    After Active Duty, I enrolled in Intelligence classes conducted on military bases (mostly at Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio) in the 4th Army area to complete my US Army Reserve obligation.

    On the brighter side, in June 1963, while working in OKC, I met and married my wife who worked at Oklahoma Gas & Electric (across the street from the Federal Building). Last June 2013, we celebrated our 50th anniversary.

    During the remainder of the 1960s, I worked for USDA’s Inspector General’s Office as a Criminal Investigator/Special Agent. I later transferred to the USDOJ, where I retired in 1994.
    bcaddell@charter.net

    Comment by Bill Caddell — January 18, 2014 @ 11:45 pm

  1187. Re 1174; I was in 9666 CI agent course from Mar to Jul 61 (approx).

    Comment by Bob Hammel — January 19, 2014 @ 6:40 pm

  1188. Bob and Bob (nos. 1174&1175):

    Been trying for nearly ten years (post #1) without success. But former G-2’s are a stubborn goal directed lot, aren’t we?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 21, 2014 @ 6:20 am

  1189. Re #1128…Manny…two true books re CIC in Europe after WWII: The Axmann Conspiracy by Scott Selby 2011; and Bloodlines by Anthony Platt in 2006. Better han fiction!

    Comment by don bridges — January 22, 2014 @ 7:34 pm

  1190. Don(1189),

    Will check-out and thanks.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 23, 2014 @ 10:33 am

  1191. Don,

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 24, 2014 @ 7:17 am

  1192. Don,
    Let’s try again. Checked out both books and almost finished THE AXMANNN CONSPIRACY. Great read, thanks.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 24, 2014 @ 7:21 am

  1193. Post 1171 for Linda Matthews; Dick Workman is somewhere near Ft Meade. Can easily verify if you like. Sorry I missed your post.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — January 26, 2014 @ 7:27 pm

  1194. I would like to hear from anyone stationed at the Bird who participated in tests at Edgewood Arsenal.

    clubnine AT gmail.com

    Comment by David — January 27, 2014 @ 9:53 pm

  1195. Correction, that’s

    clubnine02 at gmail.com

    Comment by David — January 27, 2014 @ 9:54 pm

  1196. Don(#1189):

    BLOODLINES, as you wrote, proves one again that truth is often better than fiction. Thank you once again for the leads.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 28, 2014 @ 6:14 am

  1197. Re 1194: David, I had the 109th Liaison Office at Edgewood from 1/62 to 9/64. A good source of info might be a book: Chemical Warfare: Secrets Almost Forgotten – circa 2006 by former Psychiatrist at Edgewood, James Ketchum. Good Hunting.

    Comment by don bridges — January 28, 2014 @ 5:57 pm

  1198. Re 1196: Manny. Another CIC book is Nazi’s Nightmare by William Walker 2011. About arrests of Gestapo members

    Comment by don bridges — January 29, 2014 @ 10:53 pm

  1199. Long time since I have peeped up. my question is for all of you from 502nd MI Bn in or around 1965-1966 and whether or not you remember the 8th Army Boat detachment. I believe it was the USS Report, a converted mine sweeper with a small fleet of misc type of boats. was there from May 1965 to June 1966. would love to hear from you. can contact me directly at jhbone@att.net or jhbone@vaughnlawfirm.net james h.bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — January 30, 2014 @ 12:28 am

  1200. Re 1197: Mr. Bridges, thanks. I have seen Ketchum’s book. Lots of good info in it. I’m interested in LSD testing generally. Would like to communicate w/ you.

    David

    Comment by David — January 30, 2014 @ 1:43 pm

  1201. Ken, Manny, & Ben (ref. 1162),

    On Thursday evening, I attended my first and probably last meeting of Chapter 451, VVA, at the Officers Open Mess( one of the last buildings left on our former post). Of the 40 or so people at the monthly meeting, I could not find one former MI type. It is true that I did not speak to everyone there, but I could see that there was no real attachment to Fort Holabird, based on a past experiences. Ken, I am beginning to agree with what you said in an earlier post. Fort Holabird is now only in our minds, and in our hearts.

    Comment by Phil ostrander — February 1, 2014 @ 11:00 am

  1202. Ref. 1200

    Phil,

    A bit sad to read your post. The good news is……The Bird will always be in our hearts and our minds. For me, it was a turning point in my life and career and the experience and knowledge gained there, has been passes on to my children and used in my daily life since 1969.

    Thank you for sharing your recent experience at what was once “our home”.

    Best regards,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 1, 2014 @ 12:12 pm

  1203. Gary,

    Thanks for returning my post so quickly. It is always gratifying to hear from a fellow Birdman. You expressed thoughts that we all can agree about. If you or any of the other contributors to this site ever get to Baltimore and want a tour of what is left of our old post, let me know. Additionally, I now have access to the lounge at the Officers Open Mess, through my one year membership with Chapter 451. Since my retirement, I check this site at least daily.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil ostrander — February 1, 2014 @ 2:36 pm

  1204. Phil,

    Thanks for sharing. It is sad that the Bird is forgotten but it has been physically gone for some time and the school was moved 40 or more years ago. To me, the school was the Bird.

    Speaking of the school, does anyone know how many of us the school turned out over the years. I never knew how many CI Agents there was world-wide even when I was active duty.

    Ken

    Comment by Ken Robinson — February 1, 2014 @ 6:01 pm

  1205. Phil,

    My son lives in DC, so I get to the area fairly regularly, although I have not been back to Holabird. I will next time though!

    When I went through the Interrogators course, I met a girl from a place I think was called Sparrow Point? I recall it not being far from Dundalk. Could that be right Phil? We used to go to two clubs in Baltimore back then. One was called Judges (I believe) and the other was Hollywood Park. But that was in 1969! When were you at the Bird.

    Best,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 1, 2014 @ 9:21 pm

  1206. Ref 1203

    No idea Ken, but weren’t there roughly 4 couses per year and about 40 peple per course?

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 1, 2014 @ 9:27 pm

  1207. Hi Ken,

    Thanks for responding. I am starting to get inquiries from my high school classmates, Woodlawn High, Class of 1965, about checking out the lounge at Chapter 451, so I may try it for lunch. The last time I heard, they were aiming to reopen, after renovations, on the first Friday in March.

    As to how many agents, area studies types, and coordinators, etc., the school turned out, I really don’t know. When I went through in early 1969, there were 2 classes running simultaneously. Each agent class had about 50 students including a group leader and an assistant group leader. The USAINTC Classroom building was opened in 1955 and the last class went through in the early 70’s before the post closed and everything went to Fort Huachuca, AZ.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 1, 2014 @ 9:35 pm

  1208. Gary,

    I am very familiar with Judges and Hollywood Park, unfortunately, both are long gone. Good times! Let me know next time you come to D.C. and possibly you can take a side trip to the Bird. I can also be reached on LinkedIn.

    Additionally, Sparrows Point is right next to Dundalk to the southeast.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 1, 2014 @ 9:44 pm

  1209. Maybe we were all part of a LSD experiment and Fort Holabird is just a figment of our imagination. After all, other than us, posting on this site, nobody has ever heard of it. If it was an Acid trip, give me more! It was a great 3 years.

    Comment by Bill Leach — February 1, 2014 @ 11:54 pm

  1210. Bill,

    You are so right! That is why this site is so aptly named as “Fort Holabird or the Twilight Zone.” For me as an agent, it was having civilian status, wearing U.S. insignia on my collar, being treated with a lot more respect than if I wore my 3 stripes, interviewing and interfacing with generals, colonels, and others, both in CONUS and overseas. As a Baltimore native, the fact that this post was in my own backyard. The idea that both times I was assigned here, I was able to live at home. But because it’s existence was not supported by certain people in congress, it was converted into a light industrial park and 95% of it is now gone to a desert location in Arizona?

    As long as we remain, Fort Holabird lives!

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 2, 2014 @ 9:16 am

  1211. Phil and Bill:

    Perhaps all of this is one humongous (sp?) hallucination and none of us exist? Nevertheless I thoroughly enjoy the trip and your originality and senses of humour.

    What a film script!

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — February 2, 2014 @ 10:48 am

  1212. Anyone around who was attached to the 588th MID at 5th Special Forces in Nha Trang. The 588th also interacted with B57 SOG.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — February 2, 2014 @ 2:28 pm

  1213. Manny,

    As the longest tenured contributor to this site, I, for one, appreciate the feedback.

    Code Nemoy,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 2, 2014 @ 6:30 pm

  1214. Hey you people! Just happened to somehow get on this site and have been glued to it for over an hour, mainly becauseof the true friendship that I see in your writings, something vacant in today’s society.
    Some of your comments brought me back to my career in the U.S. Army where, after basic training, I trained to be a morse code intercepter in Herzogenaurach Germany. I was then transferred to Berlin where I spent nearly 3 years as a spook on a British air force base.1952-55
    I also spent some time in Nam, kind of all over the place in; Phuc Binh, Phu Loy, Quan Loy, Cu Chi, Long Binh, Ton Son Nhut, as both a motor officer and a battery commander.
    I compliment you guys on a super-great site!

    Comment by J.D, Aultman — February 3, 2014 @ 8:59 am

  1215. Hi JD,

    Welcome to the website! I have only been on since last September, but have enjoyed it ever since as my trip back to the late 1960’s. As you may have noticed, I am from Baltimore and was assigned to Holabird twice. From what I have seen, we have people signing on from your era, from mine, and some right up until the post was closed. It is a great group of guys, a few WACs, and some relatives from both groups. We all seem to have Holabird and MI in common.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 4, 2014 @ 2:46 pm

  1216. Welcome JD – great to have you on board!

    I know Herzo Base well . It was turned over to the Germans some time ago now, and is currently the HQ of Adidas Sports. There used to be a 9-hole golf course on base called “Steel Trees” because of Herzo being an artillery base. All gone now.

    I was with Intel (interrogator) in Berlin also, but in the late 60’S/and 70’s. If you were at a British air base, I guess that was RAF Gatow near Spandau?

    What years were you in Berlin?

    All the best,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 4, 2014 @ 6:52 pm

  1217. HAPPY VALENTINE TO ALL YOU FT HOLABIRD FOLLOWERS AND I AM VERY HAPPY TO HEAR FROM EVERYONE THAT WAS STATIONED THERE. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM OTHERS WAC”S THAT WAS
    AT FORT HOLABIRD WHEN I WAS THERE. KEEP UP ON WRITING

    Comment by TERESA BATTLE — February 8, 2014 @ 5:30 pm

  1218. I find this site to be “eye-opening” as I grew up in Fort Holabird. Beginning in 1960, my Dad was an Intelligence Officer working under Col. Filbert. I recall a time when I went with my Mom to deliver a lunch to my Father. When I asked the Col. if his wife was the one who made “Filberts Margarine” I saw the disdain on my Father’s face, as though I had insulted his Commander. I was never invited back to bring lunch to my Father.

    I enjoyed a childhood full of happiness living in the homes circling a HUGE playground, our family played with and camped out in that big playground with other children of many nationalities. Also enjoying that fantastic pool. My oldest brother was a lifeguard there, and saved my younger sister from drowning, as things were in those days, parents weren’t there to supervise.

    Not understanding my Father’s lack of connection with any of his 5 children. I understand now that his “private” life of being a SPOOK was something that he could not share with our family. What I glean from this is that my Dad gave his life to the US ARMY. We had only a portion of the Man that we deserved. He died at 63 from cancer untreated by the US Military. Very sad but, true from a daughter amidst other siblings born into the ARMY Life.

    Comment by Chris — February 12, 2014 @ 8:46 pm

  1219. Also, we moved to Edmondson Heights after leaving Ft. Holabird, where my oldest brother rode bus after bus to finish high school at Dundalk HS. I went on to attend Johnnycake JH, then Woodlawn SH, class of 77. I know I’m perhaps one of the younger posters here, but my memories are very clear. Ft. Holabird was my home for many years…. OK, 5 years, but very happy memories!

    Comment by Chris — February 12, 2014 @ 9:13 pm

  1220. Good Morning Fort Holabird!

    In Catonsville, I woke up to a foot of snow this morning. The Bird got about nine inches and it is still snowing. JD, we look forward to your next posting.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 13, 2014 @ 9:47 am

  1221. I was there from 1969 to 1971, I met this wonderful person named sgt William F Richardson air force (SGT) i would like to know his current address, last address was 200 s 3rd st lewisburg pa i would like to know his location so i can write to him, he help me a lot when i was assigned to ft holabird a great human being. thank you,happy valentine day to you wonderful people.

    Comment by Teresa Battle — February 13, 2014 @ 11:39 am

  1222. (REF)1124 TERESA i would like to know the whereabouts of

    Comment by Teresa Battle — February 13, 2014 @ 11:50 am

  1223. (REF) 1124 TERESA i would like to know the whereabouts of sgt William F Richardson last address 200 s 3rd st lewisburg pa thank you

    Comment by Teresa Battle — February 13, 2014 @ 11:52 am

  1224. Wow, I thought I was the only one left who remembered Fort Holabird. My dad was in the Green Berets and we moved to the guest house on base in 1972. Eventually, we moved to Cummins Apartments where I grew up. My dad was transferred to Baltimore when he returned from his 2nd tour of Vietnam. He was to teach ROTC at Loyola. Cummins Apts was still military housing at the time and we had to stay at the guest house until our unit was ready. I remember the sad time of watching the closing of the fort. After the fort closed it almost seemed abandoned. In fact, it was. The army didn’t want it anymore and Baltimore City hadn’t purchased it yet. This was the time of Watergate. During this time John Dean spent his 4 months of confinement there. The back of my house use to back up to the fence surrounding the fort. On many summer days I would ride my bike in the old abandoned fort. One day I saw a man behind a fence. He was out excercising. He was somewhat surprised to see me riding my bike as the fort was off limits. We struck up a conversation and he told me his name – John Dean. Over those 4 months we had several conversations. I really didn’t know who John Dean was, although I had heard his name on the news a lot. On about 3 or 4 occassions I saw the presidential helicopter fly into Fort Holabird and land in the field right behind my house. A few black cars would pull up very quickly and Nixon would step out of the helicopter and into one of the black cars and then they would all be gone. Probably took no longer then 5 minutes for the entire event. All these years later I guess he was meeting with Mr. Dean to discuss what the hell they were going to say. I remember telling my parents at dinner that I had seen President Nixon and John Dean today. They didn’t even acknowledge that I had said anything. I guess they were blowing it off as too crazy to acknowledge. Anyway, I don’t live in Dundalk anymore, but my business is still there. I can see the old fort out of my office window. I ride through it once in awhile trying to remember how it use to be.

    Comment by Rob Griffin — February 16, 2014 @ 6:22 pm

  1225. Anymore Smiley Barracks in Karlsruhe, Germany?

    Comment by John Washington — February 16, 2014 @ 11:59 pm

  1226. Ref. 1221

    John,

    I enquired with some friends today………Smiley Barracks, along with most of the Karlsruhe military community, closed in 1995.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 17, 2014 @ 2:52 pm

  1227. A great site ! I was at Holabird in 1959 prior to a tour in Korea. I have fond memories of weekends in Washington,Evenings at the Peabody Book club on East Baltimore Street where Charlie Bird was on the guitar, sailing on the Potomac with a case of beer or two on the weekends and weekend trips to Boston. There was also the pervasive smell of yeast from, as I recall, a nearby bread factory. Does anyone recall theis odor ?

    Don Whittum

    Comment by Don Whitttum — February 18, 2014 @ 12:22 pm

  1228. Sorry. I had a senior moment. Our sailing was on Chesapeake Bay . My classmate had a sailboat at Annapolis and when we returned from the sailing trip we would always eat at one of the waterfront restaurants.Additionally I do recall that the strong yeast odor was from a beer producing facility-not a bread factory.Distant memories are slowly returning as I read the preceding entries.

    Don

    Comment by Don Whitttum — February 19, 2014 @ 12:28 pm

  1229. What a great site ! I was at Holabird in 1959 as a prelude to a Korean tour of duty. I remember the Saturday night buffets at the officers club and weekend ventures to Washington, sailing on Chesapeake Bay out of Annapolis,evenings at Peabody’s Bookshop where Charlie Bird regularly played the guitar,shameful evenings at the East Baltimore Street clubs,the pungent and continuing smell of yeast, especially during hot summer days and weekend trips to Boston where my beloved worked. I also remember my CO at the time-his name was Capt Green and rumor was that he was the senior captain in the US military.

    Comment by donald whittum — February 20, 2014 @ 10:09 pm

  1230. I took the 97F20 Military Intelligence Coordinator Course Class 244-97D20 from November 25th 1969 to February 1970. Then went to 500 MI Group, Ford Island, Hawaii. Went to the 525th Vietnam from Sept 30, 1971 to July 24, 1972 first half at the McCarrick Compound just outside of Tan Son Nhut Airbase, then to Long Binh – am looking for anyone who was in any of those places. Was with Terry McCullough, Steve Chapman, Robert Plinkowski & Joel Roberts at the bird and then in Hawaii. It’s great to read about Holabird – forgot about the creek until I read about it and the smell immediately came back to me. Please contact me if you know of anyone from any of these assignments. Thanks

    Comment by Ron Lompart — February 21, 2014 @ 4:46 am

  1231. My ex husband Norman Jacob and I were at Holabird (USAINS) from 1964 – 67. We had many dear friends but have lost touch. I would like to locate (Maj) Richard Beauford and his wife Carol. I know he remained in the military and had multiple tours in Vietnam. Can anyone help me make contact?

    Comment by Joan Jacob — February 21, 2014 @ 6:34 pm

  1232. My ex husband Norman Jacob and I were at Holabird (USAINTS) from 1964 – 67. We had many dear friends but have lost touch. I would like to locate (Maj) Richard Beauford and his wife Carol. I know he remained in the military and had multiple tours in Vietnam. Can anyone help me make contact?

    Comment by Joan Jacob — February 21, 2014 @ 6:34 pm

  1233. My memory of Ft. Holabird was coming in on a holiday weekend from Ft. Ord sick and crashing in a wood barrack for the entire weekend. I was 20 and was signed up for the 97D course was told that there was a backup of classes and that I could expect to be at Ft. Holabird for at least 6 months. We would form up in the morning for head count and then be released for the day. After a week or so it was said that a new Commander came in and was determined to break the log jam which was the 97B class which no one wanted to drop to go to 97D so I think it was said that any 97B who didn’t agree to take the 97D class was going to get KP etc etc. After a short time I guess some 97Bs dropped to the 97D – had a great time going to the “block” – remember going to the brick barracks and seeing clothes just stuffed into lockers and very messy appearance of everything – after basic it was a shock but this all changed when new commander decided to move things along. Interesting reading of peoples experiences.

    Comment by Ron Lompart — February 22, 2014 @ 2:32 am

  1234. have we ever wondered just what makes us return again and again to this web cite. what is the mystique that draws us back to this time in the past. we were ALL just average joes when we arrived. could it be that some thing drew s in. made us believe we were a part of something that would never happen again. reminds me very much of the thw program “LOST” SEEMS TO MAINTAIN THE MYSTIQUE OF A SPECIAL UNIT. J. BONE

    Comment by james h. bone — February 24, 2014 @ 2:39 pm

  1235. Jim (1223),

    Excellent question. Some hypstheses: looking to connect with former comrades; reliving something in our youth; curiousity plain and simple; all or none of the above?
    I have found this in many veterans. As we get older our military experiences take on a different perspective and these really were our adult formative years and the whole point of military training is to form erstwhile soldiers, sailors and Marines, no?

    Any other ideas troops?

    Manny

    as

    Comment by Manny Adler — February 24, 2014 @ 6:43 pm

  1236. James & Manny,

    I agree with both of you. The nearly 3 years I spent in MI and the 6 months I spent at the Bird were among some of the most memorable of my life. Additionally, I not only got to see Holabird at its zenith, but much to my displeasure, I also got to see its demise. The memories will always be there and I treasure the chance to reminisce with you all, especially now that I am in my so-called golden years. Fort Holabird was our own kind of Camelot.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 24, 2014 @ 8:55 pm

  1237. In addition to growing up about half a mile from the Bird, I attended CI, FOI and the first officer advanced class MI68A 01 (?) in 68. This was first combined with ASA and they built a new building for us and we were called VIPs in residence! I retain a copy of a book of cartoons done by a member of the group (based on his and others input) which were generally produced daily and posted on our bulletin board. A sample is how the MI brass was developed. Any interest in a copy of these adventures of Harry Holabird and Debby Dundalk?

    Comment by Bob Hammel — February 25, 2014 @ 1:25 pm

  1238. nothing I could have ever done could have prepared me for my experience. however, I know for sure, the army gave me much more than I deserved, and I can never repay the army for what I received. just to think, 6 months at fort holabird, the preeminent intelligence training center, and one year at Monterey California, at he preeminent language school in the world, in return for the most exciting 3 years of my life. thank you US ARMY, USIANTS, 502ND MI BN, AND ASA FT DEVINS, and GOD bless the United States of America J. BONE

    Comment by james h. bone — February 25, 2014 @ 5:39 pm

  1239. A postscript to #1235. I wonder if this site is in some way as close to the reunions that “regular” units have? In many ways due to nature of our jobs and clearances we were somewhat isolated, especially permanent party at Holabird. Comments?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — February 26, 2014 @ 1:38 pm

  1240. Manny, Just knowing what we learned in the 97 courses and our assignments prior to re-entering civilian life, gave us all such a new understanding of our country and society. I know for me it was such an eye opener and a great adventure that few got to experience. There is not a day goes by without benefiting from our MI experience. I don’t know how a reunion would be better than our memories, though I would travel anywhere to reminece as we do here.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 26, 2014 @ 6:55 pm

  1241. Hey Guys,

    Now that I am a member of Post 451, VVA, Beckley Street, in the former Fort Holabird, I can get us the rental of the hall in the former Officers Open Mess for about $425. This is $100 off of the price to the public. The hall seats well over 100 and is used for their local VVA monthly chapter meetings. It also has a large kitchen. Additionally, adequate on street parking is available.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 26, 2014 @ 9:10 pm

  1242. Manny(1239),Gordon(1240), I think you guys are starting something that was inevitable to happen. A good thing! Let’s see where it goes.

    Ed(187)

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — February 26, 2014 @ 9:16 pm

  1243. ACICV and NCICA have annual reunions and “conventions. Both have web sites and accept former MI types as members. Worth checking out.

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 26, 2014 @ 9:24 pm

  1244. Hi Don,

    Thanks for providing the information on the above organizations. If we used the VVA location in the Holabird Industrial Park, it would probably be a one time affair. The main advantage would be cost, as one would not have to join either organization with their dues requirements. The principle disadvantage with what I am recommending as that we would have to find a way to fund the event up front.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 27, 2014 @ 7:06 pm

  1245. I was day dreaming about the one,two, three club and that gorgeous wac who asked me to dance after I had too many beers. All I remember is her first name, Theresa. Took her on a date to church. I also dated Col. Trautwein’s daughter while I was at Holabird. I also remember running around the edges of the entrance to the VC village while some of those who didn’t listen raced into the middle of the entrance and wound up in a hole. Ft. Dix, 1965 and Ft. Holabird August 65 to December 65. Wound up in Newark, N.J. during the riots. Infiltrated a NIKE site with Jerry Ahmen but the bulk of the work was checking LIDMACs. So many years ago.

    Comment by fred norton — March 1, 2014 @ 9:31 pm

  1246. By the way, two of my best friends were permanent party: Bill Leach and Rick Nesbitt. Rick passed away about four years ago but I still keep in touch with Leach from the Boston area. Ring a bell to anyone out there?

    Comment by fred norton — March 1, 2014 @ 9:44 pm

  1247. ACICV life membership is $25. Quarterly Agent Report (newsletter) is $25 annually for hard copies; electronic (e-mail) is free. NCICA membership is $25 for first 2 years and $10 annually thereafter. Quarterly newsletter is The Golden Sphinx. Both newsletters have photos and articles of interest in addition to what the chapters are doing. Annual reunions are held at different locations (perhaps near you?)

    Comment by don bridges — March 3, 2014 @ 1:31 pm

  1248. Don,

    Thanks for the updated information on ACICV and NCICA.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 3, 2014 @ 2:44 pm

  1249. Ref. #s 1244 and 1245. I checked out the websites for both of the organizations mentioned. The ACICV convention will be held in September 2014 in the Minneapolis/ St. Paul area. As of 3/03/14, the NCICA has not yet listed its 2014 convention dates or location. Please Google each of these organization’s websites for more information.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 3, 2014 @ 5:34 pm

  1250. David #1178, relative to Arlington Hall: Contact me at downs24@cox.net. Sorry about the tardy answer. I haven’t checked this site in nearly two months.

    Msg #1177 questions. I don’t know if it was standard SOP to house military personnel with German civilians right after the war. I do know we seized a lot of German housing in later years. In Frankfurt in 1955, my wife and I lived for a time at 121 Oeder Weg in an old German apartment house. Our neighbors, Fred and Connie Brown, lived in the same bldg. Fred was a fresh second lieutenant and a Harvard grad. We have remained friends for almost 60 years. He is a retired court of appeals judge in Boston. Yes, my intel background influenced my life a great deal, as others have noted about their own experiences. I came within an eyelash of accepting a job at Oberursel in 1957, but I returned home to run the family real estate holdings. It was hard to walk away from an intelligence career.

    Comment by Jim Downs — March 3, 2014 @ 5:58 pm

  1251. Ref. # 1247
    By 1962, German landlords were charging Americans twice the rent that German tenants were previously paying for the same apartment, at least in Wurzburg, Wiesbaden, Idar-Oberstein, Freising, and Fulda.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 3, 2014 @ 6:43 pm

  1252. Re #1189. Thanks for the tip on the books. I just finished “The Axmann Conspiracy”. I had never heard of the plan to establish a Fourth Reich, so I learned a lot about the early occupation of Germany. Cheers for the CIC! The book is very interesting – a page turner.

    Comment by Bob Fox — March 4, 2014 @ 6:07 pm

  1253. Read about CIC “capturing gestapo” in the 2011 true book “Nazis’ Nightmare” by William G. Walker. CIC was very active right after WWII,

    Comment by don bridges — March 5, 2014 @ 1:34 am

  1254. Am semi-retired now in the Pacific Northwest after a long career in national government and politics in D.C.
    which really began with my Holabird duty.

    After basic at Ft. Ord, I was assigned in 1957 to an intelligence-analyst training course at Holabird. 38 of us in the group—all privates and all college grads.
    Our first day at Holabird I heard my name called and was
    told to stand in front of the group—whereupon I mysteriously was appointed Group Leader. We were pretty much left alone thereafter, doing our class and other work. Many good friends in the group, including Bob Potter and Yannic Mercier, although I have long since lost touch with all of them. Recall regular visits to a grill/bar on Dundalk Avenue and taking in Orioles games at old Orioles Stadium.

    Later, with a Reserve obligation, I was in strategic intelligence units in NY and Boston. In October, 1961,
    just weeks before my obligation was to end, the Berlin Wall was erected and President Kennedy recalled some Reservists to duty—including my seven-man unit, which was assigned to the USSR branch in the Pentagon. This was at the time when Army Intelligence was just being merged into the Defense Intelligence Agency. My assignment: To rewrite on a crash basis the handbook on Soviet Army forces and tactics. The Berlin Crisis passed and I remained in D.C. to serve in the LBJ White House and in other jobs. Also served as a regular lecturer at the Defense Intelligence School and other
    related schools, always billed as an intelligence homeboy who had gone onto responsibilities in civilian life.

    I visited the Holabird site a few years ago and of course found it to be a present-day industrial park. Also have been to Ft. Ord, which had 35,000 there during my service, but which now is closed except for a couple intelligence installations. Have altogether fond memories of Holabird, which was run in a civilized and intelligent manner. I had only one small c.s. incident while serving there. I was marching our training group to a morning class when a car stopped alongside us. A colonel’s wife, in the driver’s seat, chewed me out for what she thought was the non-military manner in which we were marching. She asked my name and the training group’s designation. Later that day we were told to police the open area in front of officers housing, being sure to keep a straight line while doing so.

    Comment by Ted Van Dyk — March 8, 2014 @ 2:35 pm

  1255. Ted(1254),

    Perhaps there is something to “the female being the more dangerous of the species?” You got to Holabird just as I was leaving. Sorry about the c.s.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — March 10, 2014 @ 12:13 pm

  1256. Ted

    My career path started very much like yours……basic at Ft. Ord with
    A-5-1 (down by the bowling alley) folllowed immediately by the Interrogators course at thr Bird…..just 10 years later. Then off to Berlin – great duty!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 10, 2014 @ 5:16 pm

  1257. I arrived at the Bird in May of 69 right out of Leonard Wood. At twenty three I was a bit old for that sort of thing. Went through the 97C course. Anyone remember Mr. Pickarillo. “Cease all clandestine activity”.

    How about the Infil/Exfil exercises at Ft. Howard, or the Agent Operation Exercise. I was sent to Hartford Connecticut. Rained hard for three days.

    Upon graduation was assigned to the OACSI CIAD. Spent the week of the moratorium in DC (1970) in the war room at the pentagon trying to figure out how many Hippies could fit into the Ellipse.

    Managed to be on the receiving end of Senator Irvin’s investigation.

    Certainly the most interesting three years of my life.

    Comment by Jack Terrill — March 13, 2014 @ 3:11 pm

  1258. Greetings,

    Today, I made one of my local forays to Fort Holabird. I visited two specific areas that I have been curious about for some time. First, I went to the former Officers Club and to my surprise found out that the lounge was now open to VVA members. It was about 3:30 pm so it was not very crowded. I noticed two tables filled with just a few people in attendance. I spoke to Cynthia, the waitress, who was very cordial. She indicated that they are only open on Fridays for lunch and dinner and Saturdays for dinner only. The menu is very limited in spite of the fact that they have a liquor license. The offer chicken fingers, wings, burgers, and fish. That’s it!

    My second stop was to find what the locals call “Tank Hill”. It is easily the highest point on the old Fort Holabird site. The three jeep test tracks are still intact. For those of you who decide to locate this part of the post, make sure you wear proper footwear as the area in front of the hill is a marsh. It is located on Pine Street across from Donna’s Tavern, just down the street from the Dundalk American Legion Hall inside Cimaglia Park at Fort Holabird, aptly named. Tank Hill is just beyond the 2nd baseball diamond.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 14, 2014 @ 5:22 pm

  1259. oh my, I was searching for a Jewish Cemetery in Dundalk and came across this site. I grew up in Dundalk, and learned to drive on the base. My friends and I would somehow get in and practice on the road there. We would also sneak into some club with my friend’s sister, who was 6 years older than us and dance/socialize with guys.

    Comment by Anita — March 16, 2014 @ 6:42 pm

  1260. found this site from a fellow agent, after all these years it does bring back a lot of good memories. Need help on ordering these memorial badges if seen on the post. after 3 yrs all I have is a beer mug from the 502nd. will be staying up with the post thank you in advance. S/A james w. Campbell

    Comment by jim campbell — March 16, 2014 @ 9:50 pm

  1261. ref. 1258 served march 68 to aug 97B40 class. Aug 68 to Dec.69 113th Gp Region111 KC MO field office. Dec 69 to Dec 70 G2 8th Army Korea Special Operations Branch AIC

    Comment by jim campbell — March 16, 2014 @ 9:57 pm

  1262. HAPPY ST. PATRICKS DAY TO THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE IRISH, AND TO THE REST OF YOU A BELATED WISH OF HAPPY PI DAY, WHICH WAS ON MARCH 14TH. J. BONE, VILLA RICA, GA. 30180

    Comment by james h. bone — March 17, 2014 @ 3:32 pm

  1263. Jim(1258),

    OK, you got me. What is PI day?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — March 18, 2014 @ 5:10 am

  1264. NO ONE THAT I REMEMBER HAS EVER TALKED ABOUT SP. AGT. BADGE AND CREDENTIAL NUMBER(S). MINE WAS 2507. DOES IT MEAN THAT I WAS THE 2,507TH M.I..AGENT?? IF ANYONE KNOWS ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY PLEASE INFORM US. I WOULD THINK THAT THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE AGENTS PRIOR TO MY TIME FROM NOV.1963 TO APRIL 1966. NEVER THOUGHT OF BRINGING THIS UP UNTIL JUST RECENTLY. IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE SOME OF THE ‘OLDER’ EX-AGENTS B&C numbers IF THAT’S NOT VIOLATING FEDERAL LAW OR PERSONAL PRIVACY. JUST CURIOUS. THANKS. BEN BURT

    Comment by BEN BURT — March 18, 2014 @ 2:04 pm

  1265. My badge number was 6206. I was issued it in October 1968 and turned it in along with my credentials in 1970 when I was transferred to Vietnam for Phoenix. I have the badge right now. I requested it in 2002 through the Counterintelligence Badge Trophy Program. It is encased in a block of Lucite but I can read the number which is stamped on the back. The pin has been removed. I couldn’t get my credentials as they had been destroyed several years before that.

    I spoke with the gentleman who was handling the program at Fort Huachuca. He told me that I had lucked out and received my original badge. He also told me that my badge had just been issued to one other agent after me.

    I’m very proud of it.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — March 18, 2014 @ 5:26 pm

  1266. Badge #1911 issued in April 1952 in 116th @ Washington, DC, signed with letter issuing by BG Gallagher frem CIC Ctr (Holabird). Prior to that (March 1951) my badge was issued and authenticated by the MDW G2 Col Tausch. Don’t recall the number, but credential number was different!

    Comment by don bridges — March 18, 2014 @ 7:48 pm

  1267. many…forgot to mention…pi day is from math: the circumference of a circle divided by its diameter…which is a constant 3.1414 etc to infinity. It is humorously celebrated on March 14…get it? 3/14…

    Comment by don bridges — March 18, 2014 @ 8:12 pm

  1268. I had badge number 008 and that was between 63 & 66 so I know that was not how they were issued. I wish I could still get my badge or a replica of it. j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — March 19, 2014 @ 11:14 am

  1269. James, try this phone number at Ft. Huachuca, 520-538-6110. It should be the number of the B&C Program Manager. The number is from 2010. Hopefully the program is still in effect.
    Ken

    Comment by Ken Robinson — March 19, 2014 @ 12:04 pm

  1270. KEN; YOU ARE MOST FORTUNATE TO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET YOUR”REAL” BADGE. I LEARNED ABOUT THE BADGE RETIREMENT PLAN ONLY ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. I GOT A BADGE ON A PLAQUE WHICH HAS “RETIRED” & DEPT.OF THE ARMY;MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ON THE FACE BUT SINCE IT IS AFFIXED TO THE SURFACE I DONT KNOW IF THERE IS A NUMBER ON THE BACK-SIDE, MIGHT PRY IT OFF SOMEDAY JUST TO SEE WHAT IF ANY NUMBER IS ON IT. CAN ALWAYS GLUE IT BACK ON I GUESS. TO JAMES BONE; YOU GETTING NUMBER 008 IS STRANGE INDEED. DOES THAT MEAN YOU HAVE LICENSE TO KILL ALA 007? HOPE SOME OF THE OTHER GUYS COMMENT ABOUT THEIR PARTICULAR BADGE NUMBERS; MAYBE SOMEONE CAN FIGURE OUT THE SYSTEM THAT WAS USED IN ISSUING THEM. BEN BURT

    Comment by BEN BURT — March 19, 2014 @ 7:58 pm

  1271. My former husband(now deceased, Mike Lutz, was stationed stationed at Holabird in the spring/summer of 1968. He drove a BMW motorcycle and can home every weekend to South Jersey. Everyone from his class went on to Viet Nam except for one guy who went to Germany. Mike was located somewhere just outside of Saigon and was a clerk/typist. After that he was assigned to Riverside, California and, later, to Fort Gordon, Ga.

    Comment by Jeanne Jablonski — March 20, 2014 @ 8:59 am

  1272. I was issued Badge # 1200 in July 1968. I retired in 1997 and received my B&C on a plaque. I was at Ft Meade at the time and the B&C custodian was there also. I checked with her and found my number had been carried by two people prior to being issued to me. I believe at that time your number was reused if the retiree did not ask for it. I was issued another number as a civilian and turned that one in when I retired again in 2005. Rules may have changed since then. The original is my favorite keepsake.

    Comment by Don Clifton — March 21, 2014 @ 9:03 am

  1273. I was issued 1346. I thought it would go to a new recruit when I left in 1970 on an early out for education. I never thought about this plaque situation until I read your stories. I phoned the number on 1265 and sure enough. No knowledge on who gets what number etc.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — March 21, 2014 @ 4:21 pm

  1274. thanks for the info on B and C program everyone, ill be calling Monday.

    Comment by jim campbell — March 22, 2014 @ 5:26 pm

  1275. Ok you have all been good with answers to ???. Now for a new one. With an mos 97B40 how do you graduate with a rank of CPL ? 40s are E 7. I also remember some where way back in my memory we were suppose to make WO upon duty assignment, instead we had to fight quotes in 5th army for just an E5.

    Comment by jim campbell — March 22, 2014 @ 8:05 pm

  1276. My badge and creds number was 7910 and was issued in Stuttgart at the 66th in December 1953. I also found out a few months ago about the plaque and have one on order with another badge as my old one is somewhere but obviously not available any longer.

    Comment by Bob Mann — March 23, 2014 @ 11:12 am

  1277. My badge number was 13137, issued in 1956. I have a receipt from Capt. Boyer when returning it one time. We rarely carried our B&Cs in Korea, maybe because we wore US insignia and later a DAC patch [not civilian clothes].

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 23, 2014 @ 3:08 pm

  1278. To muddy the badge water a bit: how many carried more than one B%C? 1951, War Department, # not recalled, authenticated by G2 MDW; 1952, Department of the Army, #1911 authenticated by BG Gallagher; and 1972, Defense Investigative Service, SIC, authenticated by USAF BG Cappucci. Who beats three?

    Comment by don bridges — March 23, 2014 @ 6:07 pm

  1279. Re: 1271. MI Special Agent (SA) badge 6548, Nov 68. DIS SA badge 1691, Jan 73. Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms SA badge 1939, Sep 76. Housing & Urban Development Inspector General Criminal Investigator (CI) badge 88, Oct 79. HUD IG SA badge, unnumbered, c. 1983. State Department IG CI badge, unnumbered, Apr 1988. State Dept IG SA badge 3, Jul 1991. (Temporary assignment, Agency for International Development IG SA badge 23, Apr 1995)

    Seven. Couldn’t keep a job. 😄

    Comment by Denis Spelman — March 30, 2014 @ 3:26 pm

  1280. Dennis, I accede to you, but I did not include badges from Dart Drug, Oklahoma Healthcare Corp and Baptist Medical Center! Cross your fingers that someone else will comment.

    Comment by don bridges — March 30, 2014 @ 6:13 pm

  1281. Well, Don, I did have to go outside DoD to get my number up. Three Defense badges seems to be the record.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — March 30, 2014 @ 7:31 pm

  1282. With such a tremendous response to #1278 ab0ve, I have more muddy water…how many times did you call the ‘Bird home? (1947) administrative course; (1950) agent course; (1951) microfilm course; (1952) photography course; (1970) personnel security adjudication course. Also, they must have figured that I could not learn, so I was assigned (1960) to Security Division, G2 Office (with COL Seaver as G2).

    Comment by don bridges — April 6, 2014 @ 4:45 pm

  1283. Don……I called the Bird “home” just once……1968 96C Interrogators course. We didn’t get badges either 🙁

    Then called Ft. Meade home for 5 months, then the Joint Refugee Operations Center (JROC) in Berlin .

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — April 6, 2014 @ 6:50 pm

  1284. In 1968 there was some kind of dust up because of the backlog at the Bird. They called us (97D’s) all together and started reading off a list of where people could go to complete their MOS by OJT. California seemed off the table, but by the end of the week most of us were spread across the U.S. For a few weeks I got some training; then, Reverened King was assasinated, and your all remember that fire storm. That was the end of the OJT. Right after that we were all promoted to SP/4’s and given specific assignments; and, six months after that some of us were promoted to SP/5’s. Even with the rank, the shortage of skilled people was so great a number of us were in slots one or two grades above our pay grade. It was learn as you go. When as a confused 18 year old I asked the CSM why things were the way they were, he simply said: “We would not put you in a job that we didn’t think you could do.” That was an eye opener for me and pretty much reflects the training I received over my three years. I worked with some highly skilled people who bent over backwards to explain things to you, but no more formal training. Trips back to the Bird were mostly courier duties and were very short.

    Best to all and stay healthy

    Dave Edmonds

    Comment by David Edmonds — April 8, 2014 @ 6:02 pm

  1285. REFERENCE BADGE AND CREDS.
    As of 9 April 2014
    For a total of $141 you can get a Badge and Cred. plaque, 10.5×13 inch. The creds. will say Counterintellegence Special Agent. They will no longer do MI. The following MOS are eligable 35E,97B,351B,35L,351L,0132.
    Contact person at Ft. Huachuca is Program Coordinator Mrs. Gonzalez 520-538-6110 or marcia.r.gonzalez2ctr@mail.mil

    Hope this is helpful

    Jeff Terrell

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — April 10, 2014 @ 11:46 am

  1286. Forgot to mention that Ft. Huachuca has a very nice MI museum. If you are out that way you should stop in.

    Jeff

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — April 10, 2014 @ 6:40 pm

  1287. Wow!! I absolutely love this site. Brings back many happy memories of days long past.

    Reference 1193, Bob Hammel, 26 Jan 14. Do you have contact informatin for Dick Workman?

    Reference 1217, Teresa Battle. I was in the WAC Detachment from 1963 to 1964. I was attached to it and pulled CQ there from 1967 to 1969. Do these timeframes match yours? Sorry, I don’t remember your name.

    FYI for anyone interested: There is going to be a USAREUR G-2 Reunion in Helen, Georgia, in Sep 14 and anyone who served in an intelligence position in USAREUR is invited. Lee McCaslin, who served for many years in the USAREUR G-2, is the point of contact.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — April 16, 2014 @ 12:42 pm

  1288. Here’s a web link if you’re interested in MI-CIC, Holabird trivia, memorabilia. It’s a list of items located at the intel museum in Sierra Vista, AZ…http://huachuca- http://www.army.mil/sites/History/PDFS/catalogmi.pdf
    RF

    Comment by RF — April 16, 2014 @ 3:29 pm

  1289. Hi RF,

    I tried your Link and I am getting File Not Found.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 16, 2014 @ 6:53 pm

  1290. http://huachuca-www.army.mil/files/History_MI_Catalog.pdf

    ((Try this for the MI Museum))

    RF

    Comment by RF — April 17, 2014 @ 2:30 am

  1291. RF,

    Thanks!!! I got it.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 17, 2014 @ 7:44 am

  1292. re: 1287-Linda I am unsuccessful in getting Dick Workman contact info. Sorry.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — April 19, 2014 @ 7:54 pm

  1293. Re 1292. Okay. Thanks, Bob.

    Comment by Linda — April 30, 2014 @ 1:31 pm

  1294. It seems all traffic has ceased since we were sent info on a museum !
    Are there that few of us to the unique situation we had from our experience at the Bird.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — May 5, 2014 @ 2:03 pm

  1295. Hi Gordon,

    I am sure that of the regulars out there, there are some that are just waiting for the right topic before they respond, e.g., Badges and Credentials seemed to really strike a cord. I enjoyed my time in MI and overseas with the 502nd, however my main topic area of interest is Fort Holabird, past and present. I welcome all comments and questions.

    Best,

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 5, 2014 @ 4:09 pm

  1296. Phil, I enjoyed my time too, though it is seemingly only our training time at the Bird that we mainly share. I knew of no other 97B40 to have ever been sent to Alice Springs, Australia. I was sent in Jan 70 and when I was there and afterward never knew of another agent being sent. Maybe someone can let me know they were there before or after.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — May 6, 2014 @ 6:56 pm

  1297. Gordon,

    That certainly sounds like a plum assignment. All of my fellow agents went to Fort Bragg, Vietnam, Bangok, Thailand, or back to the Bird. Along with many others, I went to Korea in Sep 70 and had a fine tour. The Korean people were very hospitable. Currently, when I meet any in this country they seem flattered that I can still utter a few words in their former language.

    Holabird was a real treat for me because I was able to commute from my home in Woodlawn (western Baltimore County). I still reside on the west side of Baltimore and pilgrimage to the remains of our alma mater on occasion.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 6, 2014 @ 8:09 pm

  1298. Gordon, Phil, et.al.,

    Still out here. Still no responses from permanent party from the mid to late fifties (perhaps a few). This is realy nostalgia central isn’t it?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 7, 2014 @ 11:34 am

  1299. Hey Manny,

    It is good to hear from you again. I guess the permanent party guys from the mid to late fifties would now be in their mid to late seventies. God bless ’em.

    Soon, I am planning to post a history of Fort Holabird on this site and it is going to be a really big show. Keep your eyes pealed for this coming attraction.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 7, 2014 @ 2:04 pm

  1300. Phil, It will be very interesting to find out if it is possible a history of MI during the years it was housed at the Bird. I say this because I have heard various stories on guys going through 97B40. Some have said they took the course prior to being 21, some said they were sent out as OJT type training. Again, it would be interesting to know how classes over the years possibly changed. During my time working as an agent I met fellow agents that were schooled in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s and all had the same schooling as I received. So I await your findings.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — May 7, 2014 @ 6:39 pm

  1301. For Phil O. and your history research on Fort Holabird:

    Three very good books with history and pics of Holabird, 1950s, 60s, early 70s. The books are part of the Army Lineage Series, written by John Patrick Finnegan. They can be purchased on the inter net or can be found at some libraries. The first book is “Military Intelligence” 437 pages. There’s also “Military Intelligence A Picture History”,195 pages and “The Military Intelligence Story, A Photographic History”, 153 pages. There are Fort Holabird photos in all three books and authorized CIC-MI history. Face Book also has a nice page for posting Bird photos and info under Fort Holabird Alumni. RF

    Comment by RF — May 7, 2014 @ 11:38 pm

  1302. For comment 1296 Phil Ostrander: I was born at 112 Williams Ave, parallel to the train tracks, across from the always (it seemed) closed main gate on Dundalk Ave. Grandma’s house- she sewed gas masks during WW11 a the bird. Lived there from 1938 until end of war, moved to nearer St Rita’s school until 1950; then in Cleveland until return to Lochearn in 1955. Have many fond memories of Gwynn Oak Park. Cousin still lives in Grandpa’s house on Pine Ave, out the back gate of the Bird near the Jeep test area. All through the war Grandma rented rooms to CIC trainees at the Williams Ave house. Everything about the Bird strikes up memories for me out here in CA. No wonder I did 20 years as CI/FOI officer! It was osmosis caused by the fumes from Colgate Creek, the Seagram’s Distillery and the GM chassis building yard on the other side of the post.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — May 8, 2014 @ 1:48 pm

  1303. Gordon, RF, and Bob,

    What I plan to post is merely a 2 typewritten page outline of the Fort from 1917 to the present. Gordon, although a history of MI at the post from the 1940’s to the early 70’s would be very interesting, what I have done is a very short historical outline. Maybe someone else can tackle that assignment based on the books cited in RF’s posting.

    Bob, it is interesting how you have connections that go back to St.Helena, just south of the Bird, as well as Gwynn Oak Park in Woodlawn (east meets west). Just as most of Fort Holabird is in our memories, the same is also true of Gwynn Oak. One is now a light industrial park and the other is a county park. Concerning Gwynn Oak, the only thing left is the boat lake (sans boats) and the dam that created it. It was demolished in the summer of 1976. The Dixie Ballroom, one of the last buildings of the park used for entertainment burned down on Feb. 22, 1975. It is now used for hiking, biking and picnicking.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 8, 2014 @ 7:42 pm

  1304. 1302: Phil, as I recall the pronunciation of St Helena, where our movie house for Saturday Westerns was located was “sane ah lean ah” in Baltimore where you walked on the payment and called the POO lease if you had a problem.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — May 12, 2014 @ 9:06 pm

  1305. Bob,

    One of the most beautiful women I ever met was named Helena, as in the face that launched a thousand ships. Anyway, please don’t get me started on “Bal-a-mer, Mer-lyn” and my favorite, “jeet yet” (did you eat yet). Not to mention, “down ne ocean”, as in where we go for our summer vacations. Also, please remember that Washington, D.C., has an “r” after the “a” and is pronounced “Warshington”. Go figure.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 12, 2014 @ 9:32 pm

  1306. Man, if this site is about the Twilight Zone, my experience in INTC is the Twilight Zone’s Twilight Zone. I fell through every crack imaginable. Not a name mentioned in all 1302 posts to date means a thing to me, Drafted Berlin Crisis ’61. Twelve week basic @ Jackson. Did the ‘Bird 12/61-3/62. I didn’t have to do the typing thing as I had taken typing in high school (Park Ridge, NJ, ’52). I worked the 108th’s Buffalo (NY) FO 4/62-7/63. Made SGT E-5 quick-like and was offered O-2 direct 5/63. Et cetera. I got assigned to TUSLOG Det 27 in Turkey, an ASA unit 7/63-11/64. Took an European “out”

    Sometimes I wonder if I even “am.”

    Bill Schulz, S/A (Cred # 5694, Badge UNK… saw it only once)

    Comment by William "Bill" Schulz — May 14, 2014 @ 3:59 pm

  1307. Oh, yeah, I was 26, married, and an industrial designer who topped out #1 of 500 during testing at Jackson. #2 was Cliff Kuchenmeister, also from NJ (New Milford) and the two of us USs were called out of class a few weeks in and told we couldn’t stay without either a 6 month extension or discharge/enlist as RA. We were both out of the service for a few minutes sitting in Personnel.

    Lived on Eastern Blvd and commuted daily. No formations, no duties, nothin’ but classes.

    Also, all I have of records is my DD 214. That’s it.

    Comment by William "Bill" Schulz — May 14, 2014 @ 4:08 pm

  1308. Sorry if the mention of my ranking may have seemed a bit presumptuous… most of my fellow draftees were just kids fresh off the farm with no college. Six or eight of us were given the civvies Schpiell out in Bldg 3704 and only Cliff and I opted to do the MI bit. Once the DI found out what Bldg 3704 was and that we had a requisition for a military taxi ride out there, we had no more problems from him! He treated us with respect (!) figuring we were “plants” in his company! Needless to say, we didn’t let on but just let it play out!

    Comment by William "Bill" Schulz — May 14, 2014 @ 8:47 pm

  1309. DONT KNOW WHY THIS NEVER CAME TO MIND PREVIOUSLY.WHEN I WAS AT HOLABIRD,HAD OCCASION TO GO TO ADMIN. OFFICE AND, LO AND BEHOLD, A FELLOW TEXAN AND FRIEND,JIMMIE JONES WAS WORKING THERE.FACT WAS, I PLAYED ON HIS FATHER’S LITTLE LEAGUE BALL TEAM IN 1951 AND 52. JIMMIE AND I ALSO RODE BUS TO HIGH SCHOOL FOR TWO YEARS. JIMMIE DROPPED OUT AFTER JUNIOR YEAR AND THAT’S WHEN, I THINK, HE JOINED THE ARMY. WE HAD A GOOD DISCUSSION AS LONG AS WE COULD. SOME YEARS LATER I FOUND OUT FROM HIS SISTER THAT JIMMIE HAD PASSED ON. NOW,CLASSES AT THE ‘BIRD. I DO RECALL THE WARM DAYS OF SUMMER AND TRYING TO STAY AWAKE IN THE EARLY CLASSES. ALSO THE LAW PROFESSOR,CANT RECALL HIS NAME,HAD A VERY MONOTONE VOICE AND PROBABLY DUE TO RECITING SAME LINES OVER AND OVER, MADE IT EVEN MORE DIFFICULT TO KEEP EYES OPEN. BUT,EVIDENTLY, I HEARD ENOUGH OF HIS LESSONS–I PASSED!!! BEN BURT CLASS OF 64B2A.

    Comment by BEN BURT — May 15, 2014 @ 9:35 pm

  1310. Ben (1305),
    Same as Economics 101 at 8:00a.m. in July, exactly.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 16, 2014 @ 5:14 am

  1311. that post (1305) made me remember that the reason I decided I wanted to be an attorney was because of the bock on constitutional law was what influenced me most. thus 5 years later I found myself in those early morning law classes, again trying to hold my head up and my eyes open after a night of working at the Georgia State Patrol. some things never change, as I now sit here trying to hold my eyes open following a late night playoff high school baseball game, and a one hour drive home. its amazing the memories that flood back in when someone mentions a subject that opens the floodgates. keep the thoughts coming. james h. bone (97B) class Nov 1963 thru April 1964 ( and yes I too remember the blizzard of 1964.

    Comment by james h. bone — May 16, 2014 @ 11:04 am

  1312. Gents,

    Went through the interrogators course (96C2L29) in 1968. Soon after arrival, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated and the Russians entered Czechoslovakia.. We thought we’d be goiing to war for certain.

    Does anyone remember two excellent clubs in Baltimore…….Hollywood Park and Judges……grat places.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 16, 2014 @ 7:26 pm

  1313. Greetings from a Holabird “dinosaur!” I just stumbled on this site. I was at Holabird [“Signal Depot,” at that time; no “Fort”] from around Jan ’46 to July ’46. Sent there after Military Intel Language School [Mandarin], via Camp Pickett. Had one day of training at Counter Intelligence Center (lock picking) when it was discovered that I had too many “points” to finish training course for discharge. Immediately assigned as Supply Sgt for CIC Hq & Hq Co. Main duty was uniforming agents who had been serving in plain clothes so they could then be discharged in uniform! Enjoyed watching Sunday morning soccer games played there each week by German POWs on the field in front of our barracks building. Very nice duty!

    Comment by Isaac W. Feinberg — May 17, 2014 @ 4:24 pm

  1314. Isaac,

    Welcome to the site! If you want to see one of the last buildings remaining from Fort Holabird of the 1970’s, please go to Google Maps and type 6401 Beckley Street, Baltimore, MD, in the address bar. Here you will see the Officers’ Open Mess Building, which has been leased by the Vietnam Veterans of America, Chapter 451. In front of the building, you will notice a Bell UH-1 Huey Cobra Helicopter and a Sheridan M551A1 Armored Reconnaissance/Airborne Assault Vehicle.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 17, 2014 @ 9:10 pm

  1315. OK, let me bounce off the group all the names of INTC personnel I came in contact with, in no particular order- Herb Wills, Al Vallone, Paul Siroky, Roger Rankin, Joe Goetz, Bill Klein, Lindsey Delashmutt, MajGen. Garrison B. Coverdale, Cliff Kuchenmeister, Stan Winarski, Ed Register, Phil Clark.

    Any of them mean anything to anyone?

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 19, 2014 @ 8:31 pm

  1316. Reference (186) I met a post commander
    of the “Bird” by the name LtCol David M Kithcart! We last spoke about a man named Mayer/Myer/Myers/Meyer who he had met at a camp meeting in 1962 at Ft Bragg. You might look for a Army General I think they call “Shy”Meyers! Kithcart said that latter on he was to become instrumental in the forming and creation of the Army’s “Delta Force” as a four star general! Hope you find your dad’s poetry! I’m sure it has had a lasting effect

    Comment by David Henry — May 22, 2014 @ 3:18 pm

  1317. Reference (186) I met a post commander
    of the “Bird” by the name LtCol David M Kithcart! We last spoke about a man named Mayer/Myer/Myers/Meyer who he had m
    et at a camp meeting in 1962 at Ft Bragg. You might look for a Army General I think they call “Shy”Meyers! Kithcart said that latter on he was to become instrumental in the forming and creation of the Army’s “Delta Force” as a four star general! Hope
    you find your dad’s poetry! I’m sure it has had a lasting
    effect

    Comment by David Henry — May 22, 2014 @ 3:23 pm

  1318. Reference (186) I met a post commander
    of the “Bird” by the name LtCol David M Kithcart! We last spoke about a man named Mayer/Myer/Myers/Meyer who he
    had met at a camp meeting in 1962 at Ft Bragg. You might look for a Army General I think they call “Shy”Meyers! Kithcart said that latter on he was to become instrumental in the forming and creation of the Army’s “Delta Force” as a four star general! Hope
    you find your dad’s poetry! I’m sure it has had a lasting
    effect

    Comment by David Henry — May 22, 2014 @ 3:27 pm

  1319. I just knew it.

    I was searching around the web trying to find some I’d worked with in the spook business. I’d always been suspicious of the first SAIC under which I worked (bad choice of words, I know) of the Buffalo FO.I just found he’s listed on the “Jesus In Love Blogspot,” “A place for LGBTQ spirituality and the arts. Home of the gay Jesus and queer saints. Uniting body, mind and spirit. Open to all.”

    Have I got a nose for them?

    I wonder what that says about me….

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 25, 2014 @ 12:19 pm

  1320. To all of us:

    A poppy for all our “fallen” comrades…God bless.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 26, 2014 @ 5:12 am

  1321. my dad, MSgt John “Bob” Dietzel was stationed at the ‘Bird from abou 54-61 when we shipped out to Germany. Dad was somehow involved in, I think, quartermaster stuff. we lived in a section of duplexes called informally The Circle, near tennis courts. in the middle of the circle was some play equipment…swings, slides. I was but a wee lad, from 3-10 years old but the following kids names and couples last names have stuck. The Toths, Jackie Broadus (sp?), Steve Dupre (dew-pray). We took the bus into Baltimore to attend Montebello Elementary. I am really interested in any pictures from that time that might include the housing. any info feel free to drop a line…first2tenor@comcast.net Charles Dietzel

    Comment by Charles Dietzel — June 3, 2014 @ 10:45 pm

  1322. Drafted in June 1956,I did Basic and clerk school at Ft Chaffee, Ark. then went to Ft Jay NY. Was sent to Ft Holabird in Dec 1955 to work on the 1st Army G2 Liaison Team at the Central Records Facility,and stayed there until I was discharged in June 1956. Lived on post. Clerk work days, processing security clearance requests from 1st Army. Tended bar at the Officers Club at night. Enjoyed Baltimore: good restaurants, fun on East Baltimore Street. Went to DC often. Met LBJ at his office. Saw Jack and Bobby (and Jackie and Ethel in the audience)at the Dave Beck Teamsters hearings. Easy service. No war. Lucky.

    Comment by John Busker — June 7, 2014 @ 3:47 pm

  1323. hi- I purchased a Kindle edition of Military Intelligence by John Patrick Finnegan, based on the comments of one poster here, looking for pictures of the ‘Bird. this particular book has zero pictures, so just passing on the info in case that’s all you wanted, as I did. thanks to all the helpful info from everyone.

    Comment by Charles — June 8, 2014 @ 2:59 pm

  1324. If I may, I know this is a fort holabird, intell web site, but I would just like to inform all of whom I have reconnected with on this site, that we buried one of my heros last week. That would be my father-law Louis morelli. Dad was 97. A sgt in the artillery division in World War Two, spent 1943 to 1946 fighting in the war. A decorated veteran of the battle of the bulge. He fought all the way to Berlin. He was buried here in Staten Island , ny with an active duty honor guard from fort Dix, nj. Rest in peace Pop. We will miss you.
    Charles Goffredo

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — June 8, 2014 @ 6:10 pm

  1325. Charles,

    May your Father-in-law, Mr. Moreli, rest in peace. I have read where we are losing our WWII veterans at a rate of 400 – 500 a day.

    All the best to you and your family,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 8, 2014 @ 7:18 pm

  1326. Charles,

    May your Father-in-law, Mr. Morelli, rest in peace. I have read where we are losing our WWII veterans at a rate of 400 – 500 a day.

    All the best to you and your family,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 8, 2014 @ 7:18 pm

  1327. Charles,

    What is there to really say? My condolences to you all and thanks to your father-in-law and may he rest in
    peace.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — June 9, 2014 @ 5:10 am

  1328. Sixty years ago Wednesday, my wife and I were married at the main street chapel at Holabird. Chaplin Wyandt, a wonderful older man, did the honors. None of our family members were there — we were from California. Six of my buddies in my recent graduating class attended, and we all went to Hausner’s afterwards. I had requested a Holabird assignment (a sure thing) and had expected to be on the demonstration staff at Aberdeen. But, they upped the requirements to E-5 and I wound up at the Central Records Facility reviewing docs from 66th CIC. One day the first sergeant went by my desk and said, “Downs, you’re alerted for shipment.” I immediately thought he meant over choppy seas meaning our wedding plans had gone up in smoke. Instead, I was sent to the 116th in WashDC and into civvies. We still were married on the base. Washington was great. Six of my buddies there — bachelors — had rented a large house in Arlington, and the parties were endless. It was 1954 and the height of the Cold War. Fascinating city. We loved it. Many great memories thanks to the CIC.

    Comment by Jim Downs — June 15, 2014 @ 6:45 pm

  1329. Jim,

    Thanks for your posting on the site. Happy 60th wedding anniversary! You must be about 80 years of age. The more power to you. Hausner’s, a great East Baltimore institution, has been closed for years and the building on Eastern Avenue sits empty although still in reasonable shape from outward appearances.

    All the best!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 15, 2014 @ 10:23 pm

  1330. What is happening to the newest posts on this site? Last night, it was up to 1325 and now it is only up to 1317.

    Comment by Bill 117 — July 1, 2014 @ 11:11 pm

  1331. Happy Independence Day! Just read the opening message again. It always brings back fond memories, since my experience was the same. Condolences for Mr. Morrelli. My dad (North Africa, Sicily, Normandy-first wave and the Bulge) has been gone for twenty years and I still miss him. My mom, 94 last Monday, was an invasion army combat nurse, awaiting word of her husband of two months. They, like all of us, did their duty. Enjoy your family and think of our Holabird family tomorrow.

    God bless America!

    Dave

    Comment by David Edmonds — July 3, 2014 @ 1:06 pm

  1332. Reference Item: 920 Requesting information on LTC Max Belba. ATTENTION: William I. Jennings. Thank you for noting that you knew LTC Belba (“I knew Max during the period l960-68 at FT Holabird and ODCSI, USAREUR, Heidelberg.”) Is there another e-mail address that I can use to get in touch with you? I am still working on a biographical project for LTC Isadore “Max” Belba. Max served in the CIC from 1946 until 1968. Thank you! Mark

    Comment by Mark — July 3, 2014 @ 2:45 pm

  1333. God Bless America again,Please!

    Comment by Edward W. Hotchkiss — July 3, 2014 @ 8:12 pm

  1334. God bless America again,please

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — July 3, 2014 @ 8:21 pm

  1335. God bless America!

    Comment by Edward W. Hotchkiss — July 4, 2014 @ 5:03 pm

  1336. I was at Ft. Holabird in ’67-’68 in classes 67-T-5 and 68-TA-1. Served in Vietnam with the 1st MI BN (ARS), 45th MID/Det E in Phu Bai. The 1st MIBARS just had a reunion at Charleston, SC. Our next reunion will be in Washington, DC likely in May 2015. All ex-MIBARS are encouraged to attend. There will be many ‘Nam and Holabird stories to share.

    Comment by John T Nichols — July 4, 2014 @ 11:05 pm

  1337. God Bless America! Ed(post 187)

    Comment by edward Hotchkiss — July 5, 2014 @ 9:26 pm

  1338. Thank you all for your condolences and prayers for my father-law, Louis Morelli. I forgot to mention that my mother-law, Jennie is still around and that she is 99 years young and still lives in the house that pop built for them in the 1950’s. On a happy note, my grandson Charles IV returned home last Friday after two years with the 2nd Inf Div on the DMZ in South Korea. His next assignment will be with the Big Red One infantry division in Fort Riley,Kansas.
    God bless everyone and their families on this site and God bless America.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — July 6, 2014 @ 1:33 pm

  1339. I arrived at Ft. Holabird from Fort Polk in October 1969 after the bus ride from hell to get there. My arrival was delayed from Ft. Polk because they told me my security clearance was not finalized. You can imagine the thoughts I had about flunking the top secret clearance and becoming a grunt in Vietman. After 2 weeks I received my orders to Holabird and when I arrived was told that the 97B20 class I was supposed to be in was full and that I would be attached to a 97D20 class starting in 3 weeks. I spent those 3 weeks as a security guard at one of the buildings on the base from 11:00 PM till 7:00 AM. I was free to sleep during the day in the barracks and discover Baltimore on the weekends. At the start of the class there were 42 of us learning how to be intelligence clerks. Not the role I had thought I would be learning. During those days in class I remember not applying myself to the training and daydreaming about beer & peppermint schnaps at nearby tavern in Dundalk. Upon graduation in Jan 1070 all but 8 of us went to Vet. language school in Ca. I was assigned to US Army Field Activities Command in D.C. and then to San Juan, Puerto Rico. Looking back it was a blessing that I was transferred to 97D20. I have been having nostalgic moments of late and think of the men who were in my class at Holabird, which is how I stumbled on this site. Haven’t keep tabs on any of the other 41 from my group. All in all, very nice duty for my service to country.

    Comment by William "Les" Bradley — July 9, 2014 @ 4:05 pm

  1340. Charles,

    Good luck to your grandson! It is nice to see that he has carried on the family’s military tradition.

    Best!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 10, 2014 @ 7:54 pm

  1341. Never made it to the Bird but did spend a lot of time at Ft. Bragg (Nov 68 – September 70) in the 14th MI Bn. Inducted in September 1968 and sent to Ft Jackson for Basic. Then to 14th at CONTIC for AIT – 96C. We fully expected to go to Nam but ended up doing 12 weeks in Vietnamese language school after which we just stayed at Bragg. Pretty much a waste of 2 years but I did meet some great people, and have some fond memories.

    Comment by Peter Blum — July 12, 2014 @ 10:04 am

  1342. Interesting site. I was stationed at Holabird from May ’66 to Sep ’66. I took the enlisted agent’s course in class 66-B-24. My dad Charles Akemoto went through the enlisted agent’s course in 1948. After that he went to the Army Language School in Monterrey for a year before being assigned to Japan. He later became a warrant and retired from active service in 1974. Our claim to fame was being assigned to the same unit, the 526th MID in Okinawa at the same time from Oct ’67 to Jul ’69. While we were there, Richard Duarte (comment 190) was also with us in the 526th. Prior to enlisting in Feb ’66, I had to go through a pre-enlistment test and interview which was conducted at the 401st MID in Honolulu. My dad had been assigned to that unit from Jul ’61 to Nov ’65 before he was transferred to the 526th. One of the reasons for the pre-enlistment process was because I needed an age waiver because I would not be 21 until Mar ’67. My original orders even had the agent’s class that I eventually ended up in. Our class was made up of primarily E-2s who made E-3 while attending class. There were a few senior NCOs and 4 Marine NCOs-an E-6, 2 E-5s, and an E-4 who was promoted to E-5 while in class. The majority of the E-2s were college grads who were faced with the draft so they opted for the “best” deal they could get rather than risking becoming 11-bushes. After graduating from Holabird, several of us received orders for the 90th Replacement Battalion APO San Francisco 96307. That’s right, Vietnam after graduation! After spending a year in ‘Nam, I received the assignment to Okinawa and spent the remainder of my active duty time there. Later, I joined the Army Reserve and ended spending 25 years in the Reserves retiring in 1997 as a Sergeant Major. My address is lhswayne@hawaiiantel.net

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — July 14, 2014 @ 10:16 pm

  1343. McCarrick Compound in Saigon has been mentioned several times. Does anyone recall the location of McCarrick Compound? Was it near the main route (Cach Mang/ Cong Ly) between Tan Son Nhut and Saigon?

    Thanks for your help. I’ll check back for any replies.

    Comment by Mike McNally — July 27, 2014 @ 6:15 pm

  1344. Glad we’re back!
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — August 6, 2014 @ 4:56 am

  1345. I believe I was inducted at Ft. Holabird in July 1957. The name is one I definitely remember. I enlisted in Baltimore, where I lived at the time. From there I was sent to Ft. Jackson, SC, for 8 weeks of basic training. I had some choices, since I enlisted for 3 years to beat the draft, and I wound up going to the Army Security Agency School in Ft. Devens, Mass. I had basic and advanced training as a 984, a Comm Sec Analyst. After that, I had a short leave back to Baltimore, then was sent overseas to Frankfurt, Germany. I went for an interview at the HQ USASAE, and I wound up being stationed in Frankfurt. I loved it there, and traveled through much of Europe on my leave times. I didn’t know Ft. Holabird no longer existed. Seems like everything I once knew is gone. The Gutleut Kaserne, where I was stationed in Frankfurt, is no longer a military post, German or American.

    Comment by Ronald Doss — August 6, 2014 @ 11:11 am

  1346. Hi Ronald,

    Welcome to the Site! It is interesting to hear your story. I, too, am a native Baltimorean and took the extra year to get the MOS of my choice, completed Agent School and Photo Intell School here as well. As you have seen by some of the past postings, most of our former post is gone, save the Officers’ Open Mess and the 3 jeep test tracks. The street layout, what is left of it, is still intact.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander, 97B40

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 8, 2014 @ 8:14 pm

  1347. This is copy of email I sent to old Heidelberg hands today. As I note it was on ARD yesterday and runs about 80 minutes. Subject is closing of Heidelberg-Mannheim areas after 65 years.

    This was on ARD last night so follow the link to the website and scroll one entry right under Reports and the film is there. It may only be there a few days.

    Got this from a friend and only watched part of it. It may be an hour show.

    > http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv This is shortcut to TV site. Go down to Reportage and Doku, scroll one box to the right and you will see the report. Click on it. May only be available several days.

    I was in Heidelberg 69-70 after first VN tour, then to Kaiserslautern from 70-71 and then back to VN.

    Bob

    > “Frau Johann” aka “Miss Jo” worked for the Americans starting in 1945, after they got to the Heidelberg area; but, before Germany’s surrender. Her last position was with the CID in Heidelberg (Autobahn/Stem Kaserne, Mannheim-Seckenheim). When she reached mandatory retirement age, she came back as a volunteer 2-3 days a week. She stopped about age 90, shortly before the CID Headquarters moved to Kaiserslautern.
    >
    > She has been diligently sending info on the closures in HD/MA.
    >
    > Here is a link to the movie, which is being shown on German channel 1 tomorrow night, and which will be available online a few days later:
    >
    > http://www.goodbye-gi.de/en/

    Comment by Bob Hammel — August 13, 2014 @ 9:42 pm

  1348. Important for history and Heidelberg hands. Sent this email today.
    This was on ARD last night so follow the link to the website and scroll one entry right under Reports and the film is there. It may only be there a few days.

    Got this from a friend and only watched part of it. It may be an hour show.

    > http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv This is shortcut to TV site. Go down to Reportage and Doku, scroll one box to the right and you will see the report. Click on it. May only be available several days.

    I was in Heidelberg 69-70 after first VN tour, then to Kaiserslautern from 70-71 and then back to VN.

    Bob

    > “Frau Johann” aka “Miss Jo” worked for the Americans starting in 1945, after they got to the Heidelberg area; but, before Germany’s surrender. Her last position was with the CID in Heidelberg (Autobahn/Stem Kaserne, Mannheim-Seckenheim). When she reached mandatory retirement age, she came back as a volunteer 2-3 days a week. She stopped about age 90, shortly before the CID Headquarters moved to Kaiserslautern.
    >
    > She has been diligently sending info on the closures in HD/MA.
    >
    > Here is a link to the movie, which is being shown on German channel 1 tomorrow night, and which will be available online a few days later:
    >
    > http://www.goodbye-gi.de/en/

    Comment by Bob Hammel — August 13, 2014 @ 9:46 pm

  1349. After basic at Ft. Knox graduated from Agents Coarse
    in 1954 and was assigned to the Baltimore Field Office
    and eventually to the Salisbury, MD post until discharge
    in May 1956.

    Comment by Jim Smith — August 17, 2014 @ 4:49 pm

  1350. CIC Agents class in 1954 – then assigned to the
    Baltimore office.

    Comment by Jim Smith — August 17, 2014 @ 8:59 pm

  1351. Ref #1155 Susan Jacobs post. My dad SFC Stanley L. Slifer Sr. was a Holabird man. He went to the CI Agent course in 1957 and was assigned to “US Army Research Unit” (ASA) at Arlington Hall Station with Lloyd Walterdorf (deceased). Attended the FOI (agent handler) course 1959 and assigned to the 513th in Bremerhaven, Ger from 1960-65. He spoke German & Hungarian. He and MSG Vikeo Japenen (deceased 2006) worked FOI there. He said during his tour, a CI agent was shot with his own revolver in the back of the head and found floating in create in Bremerhaven Harbor. He said, the guy must of gotten too close to something. He said he always wondered what had happened. From 1965-66 he was the resident agent in Tulsa, OK assigned to the 112th where he retired and was replaced by CW3 Tony Parker. Dad passed away on 22 May 2014 at the age of 88. My mother says she thinks she remembers your father. I have a 8×10 photo take around 64-65 of my dad receiving an award from the C.O. of the 513th in Bremerhaven with five other agents in it. harryslifer@gmail.com

    Comment by Harry Slifer — August 18, 2014 @ 10:20 pm

  1352. Served in the 109th MI Group, Cleveland, Ohio, April 1966-April 1969, as an Intelligence Coordinator. I loved Cleveland, three of the best years of my life. Anybody out there remember me? Still live in Brooklyn, New York.

    Comment by Thomas E. Ahern — August 22, 2014 @ 9:10 pm

  1353. Hmm is anyone else encountering problems with
    the images on this blog loading? I’m trying to figure out if its a problem on my end or if it’s the blog.
    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    Comment by Fish With Captain Frank — August 23, 2014 @ 5:44 am

  1354. I just finished the Axeman Conspiracy that someone on the site recommended. Highly recommend it to others. It is a fact that there are many stories that can’t be told because of classification. Many of the graduates of the Bird never get their exploits know by others, and don’t expect that to happen. A salute to all of them.

    Comment by Don Clifton — August 23, 2014 @ 5:36 pm

  1355. I attended the bird during summer and fall of 1966 as 97b40, MI Special Agent. Fond memories of Mrs. Kelcka teaching us typing and of “The Shark” teaching us how not to interview in the “Fish Bowl”. We were marched to class each day by a JarHead E-6 who would command us to route step as we crossed the pontoon bridge over Colgate Creek. Of course after the first day we stayed in step and really got that sucking undulating several feet above the water. Assigned to the Cleveland Field Office for a year and then to the 7MI at Camp Casey, ROK after the Pueblo was snatched.

    Comment by Bill Vogel — August 23, 2014 @ 9:10 pm

  1356. Attended Holabird in the Fall of 70. 96D Image Interpetor . Afterwards sent to DC for two weeks then off to Ft Bragg. Got to spend several months TDY with the Navy at FICLANT. Then volunteered for Nam and went in December of 71, returned in Dec of 72. Early release at that time. Went to Ft Holabird as I wanted a school close to the DC area as i spent 6 or 7 years growing up there and a few years in the Harrisburg area. Pleasant memories of Ft Holabird. Great group of classmates. Final MOS 96D2TSR. They found out that I spoke spanish.

    Comment by Andy Reeve — August 26, 2014 @ 2:21 am

  1357. #1341
    Peter where you in Company B

    Capt Coffee, Capt. Sterling, Capt. Issacs, Mr. Stuckey???

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — August 27, 2014 @ 2:16 pm

  1358. Anybody here that was permanent party at the Bird April 1963 to 1966?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — August 29, 2014 @ 5:34 pm

  1359. I was PP September 1965 to June 1968. I worked at USAINTS S2, Troop Command.

    Comment by bill — September 1, 2014 @ 11:05 pm

  1360. I just sent this on to a friend (We had been telling drinking stories). I had all but forgotten about this episode and had to dig it out of my computer files. . . .

    One Friday evening about 56 years ago, when I was in the army at The US Army Intelligence Center at Fort Holabird, Maryland, before I was assigned to Germany, some of my army buddies suggested I meet an Anglo-Catholic priest (who argued like a Jesuit) . We went to some sort of church social function in Baltimore, and afterward, a group of us sat in the rectory and talked, getting drunk as much from the conversation and our youth as we were from the bourbon we were drinking from teacups. We argued about the existence of God, the merits of a local barmaid, and other arcane points and, at one point I knew —— with the special clarity and certainty which only the deeply and truly drunk experience——the answers to the questions of existence. I felt a great sense of peace. How is it put in the Bible? The peace that “passeth (surpasses) understanding.” I felt that way until the next morning when I realized that I had (O my God!) forgotten the answer. I felt desperate! If only I could remember! But I couldn’t. And I didn’t. And life went on without the certainty of divine guidance. But what a time that was, a true moment of peace, security and belief. I never thought of that evening as one of irreverence or sacrilege, but as part of young men’s search for truth.

    Richard G. Safran
    rgs407@yahoo.com, Fort Holabird (Summer 1958)

    Comment by Rick Safran — September 4, 2014 @ 6:29 pm

  1361. For those searching for picture records of Ft. Holabird under construction in 1953-55, I am a dinosaur who graduated 9/7/55, Class B313–I believe–as a 971.30 and I still have the Graduation Program which came with a 16 page brochure entitled ‘COUNTER INTELLIGENCE CORPS SCHOOL’ issued to commemorate the new buildings’ completion 8/1/55. It has pix of Gen. Campbell, Col. Hoffman (Asstnt. Commandant), groundbreaking, construction progress, completion & views of several portions of the interior. Contact me via email if interested in the above.

    Perhaps more about me at a later entry. SA #12345

    Comment by Richard (Dick) Leiweke — September 4, 2014 @ 7:48 pm

  1362. Rick,

    So did you convert or stay? PP 55-57.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — September 5, 2014 @ 5:22 am

  1363. I was an actor at the Bird between Summer of 1960 and Apr of 1962.
    If anyone wants to contact me, I am at e-mail address willston@embarqmail.com

    Comment by walter r illston — September 7, 2014 @ 8:14 am

  1364. REF. 1174 – Jim Downs & Dick Murphy – I was assigned to 116th aka 7022ARU 9 July ’55 through 6 Dec. ’56. Never got up to 2nd Floor – was happy working on 1st under Maj. Ralph Hendrickson, a real gentleman. Immediate supervisor was a grizzled old MSGT from WWII named Edwards. What a guy he was! Of the 5 of us from Class B313 assigned to BMW, another great guy whose name I just can’t remember (was drafted as a Rhodes Scholar) who did liaison & records checks on all local agencies – police, schools, etc. Edwards reserved ONI & OSI for himself (must have been some good looking secretaries in those offices) which left just about everything else (except FBI, CIA, CSI, NSA & ASA to higher-ups) to me – E1 Agent SA#12345. I really enjoyed my visits to the W. H. Secret Service Protective Research Sect. And, at the Credit Bureau, got to know the clerk from the FBI doing the same checks. Got caught, while in our office, for 2 S… details so spent as much time as possible doing ‘liaison work’. Only time I know that I crossed the trail of a Communist was while reviewing a Secret File at the State Depart. & each page was initialed as having been read by AH.

    My only gripe was having to live in a very expensive place on E1 then E2 pay plus BAQ the same as others in ‘lower rent’ places. Became an E3 10 days b4 separation!

    Does anybody remember my other B313’s: Jim Taylor (grad student out of Vanderbilt); Bob Stevenson (?a Legislative Asstnt.to U.S. Senator from Maine) & Art Bronzek, St. Louis, MO? Or does Capt. Heckendorn (was activated for Korea when listed in ‘Who’s Who in American Educators) ring a bell?

    Holabird & MDW were 31 months of the most enjoyable times in my life.

    Comment by Richard (Dick) Leiweke — September 10, 2014 @ 10:20 pm

  1365. WOW! Guess you, Bill, and I were the only ones running the place. You in S2, me in G2.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — September 11, 2014 @ 11:00 pm

  1366. It was a great 3 years. I wouldn’t change a thing!

    Comment by bill — September 12, 2014 @ 10:39 pm

  1367. Guess strange things do happen. I was returning as VW Bug to a guy after fixing it and he mentioned he served in the Army in Baltomre. He was a “birdman” also. His nam is Charled Harman. He started out as a 97D but was later made into the bandmaster for the Post. From what he said, he was there from 62 to 65. Just wondering if anyone remembers him.

    Comment by Kurt Schulz — September 16, 2014 @ 10:13 pm

  1368. Guys and Gals: I just received my Retired B & C today. i must say it is impressive. thanks to the program for making it possible. James H. Bone

    Comment by James H. .Bone — September 26, 2014 @ 11:49 am

  1369. Attended USAINTS from October 1958 to March 1959. Then posted first to Wurzburg,Germany for a few weeks before being posted to a resident agency at 3 VonHessingstrasse,Bad Kissingen,Germany.It was a very special time and I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I had opted to stay in the Army.

    Comment by richard pross — September 27, 2014 @ 12:01 am

  1370. Today, I drove past the former Ft. Holabird Officers’ Open Mess and noticed that the Huey Cobra that had sat in front of it for the past several years, was gone. I had been told by the VVA Hall Manager that this was imminent as vandals had cracked the plexiglass in the cockpit on several occasions. It was towed away and now sits on display at Martin Air Field in nearby Middle River, MD. In place of it is the VVA “Welcome Home” white trailer.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 27, 2014 @ 9:04 pm

  1371. permanent party 11/64-07/67 dept area studies (das)

    Comment by frank stella — September 27, 2014 @ 11:54 pm

  1372. A note to Phil Ostrander

    Phil….I was at the Bird in 68/69 as a 96C2L29.

    I saw Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young at the Baltimore Convention Center in 68….. Was that on Howard Street then? Also, do you remember two great clubs back then, Hollywood Park and Judges?

    Best regards,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — October 9, 2014 @ 5:03 pm

  1373. Hi Gary,

    Please reference #1208. I think that you attended the CSNY concert at the Baltimore Civic Center on Howard Street (2 buildings with somewhat similar names). Anyway, next time you come to Washington to see your son, why don’t you consider a side trip to Baltimore?

    Best,

    Ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 9, 2014 @ 8:30 pm

  1374. Thanks Phil! I will definitely do that…..possibly next month already.

    Best regards,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — October 16, 2014 @ 4:23 pm

  1375. Hi Gary,

    I will look for your next response on my email address that I left for you in my last posting. Please keep in mind that Fridays are the best day as the VVA Hall at Holabird Industrial Park is only open 2 days per week.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 17, 2014 @ 1:25 pm

  1376. I reported to the Bird for a pre enlistment physical in the Navy in April of 1968.The place was really run down.My day was made by getting an unexpected 4F,which was like god at the time.

    Comment by Steve allen — October 21, 2014 @ 2:16 pm

  1377. Is everyone napping?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — November 10, 2014 @ 11:49 pm

  1378. Dan (1372),

    Kind of..but we all woke up for Veteran’s day.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — November 11, 2014 @ 5:56 am

  1379. enjoyed your story; was at USAINTS March-May 68 after BCT at Dix,graduated Sp 4 97D20. Assigned to Washington DC Field Detachment DODNACC,where I ETS Jan 71.Holabird was like being in college,except for the uniforms. In the evenings we’d hit Oriole games,came home every weekend. After graduation only wore a uniform once,for E-5 promotion board at Holabird. Happy Veterans Day everybody.

    Comment by Dave Johnson — November 11, 2014 @ 12:45 pm

  1380. Happy Veterans’ Day to all who wore the uniform and thank you for your service!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2014 @ 1:00 pm

  1381. I wish all U.S.Military Veterans and especially Ft. Holabird Alumni(187) a peaceful Veterans Day. May God bless America!

    Ed.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 11, 2014 @ 1:21 pm

  1382. Stumbled on this on Veterans’ Day and the anniversary of my first full day at Ft. Myer (South Post) “Headquarters Co., US ARMY” where I spent most of my 3 years working for STAFFCOMM at the Pentagon. Very odd, as I had just graduated Class 67-R-6 at Ft. Holabird (1966). Was there when Baltimore won the World Series, but was too young to drink!

    We were mostly RA’s, but had a few reservists in the class, a couple of HUGE marines and one Green Beret.

    I was supposed to be an Intelligence Analyst, but they need 10 guy pronto to handle communications for the Chief of Staff that had spotless backgrounds.

    The Chaplain at Ft. H the time was Captain James Bond. I am not making this up.

    Comment by Jack Socha — November 11, 2014 @ 1:40 pm

  1383. Dan, Ed, Manny, Phil, fellow Ft. Holabird grads and all Veterans……Happy Veterans Day and heartfelt thanks for your service and sacrifices which all contribute toward making America great.

    God Bless

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 11, 2014 @ 5:16 pm

  1384. Dan, Ed, Gary, Manny, et al;

    I will be presenting information on the topic of Fort Holabird, 1918 to the Present, on February 16, 2015, at 7 p.m., at the Dundalk-Patapsco Neck Historical Society, 4 Center Place, Dundalk, MD. If you are in Baltimore, place stop by this location for their monthly meeting. If not, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net for a copy of my presentation.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 12, 2014 @ 4:20 pm

  1385. WOW, glad to see Vets Day was the end of that hibernation cycle. Let’s all meet at Squires for a round and a pizza!! (I wish)

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — November 13, 2014 @ 11:41 pm

  1386. Dan,

    Who says that you can’t go back! Squires lives! Check out their website at squirescatering.com Its hard to believe that it has been around for 60 years, almost as long as some of us folks. Although the formstone façade has gone, it still sits at the same location, and it has more than doubled in size. They offer 7 different kinds of pizza, not to mention various multiple toppings. Manja, Manja!!!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 14, 2014 @ 11:11 am

  1387. Remember the “Bird” fondly. I enlisted (my draft number under lottery was 79) and did basic training (A-10-2) at Fort Bragg, NC from Jun-Aug 1968. Then assigned to Ft Holabird, Baltimore, MD for Intelligence Coordinator training (97D MOS I think) from Sept-Dec 1968. I wasn’t 21 so I couldn’t attend the CI agent course. My parents lived in Landover Hills, MD (about 90 mins away from Holabird) so I would hitch hike home on weekends. Wore my uniform so I was always picked up, usually in a car with other GIs or Cadets from West Point heading home for a weekend visit. After Holabird my final assignment was with the 902nd MI Group, Falls Church, VA from Jan 1969 to Jun 1970. Never wore my uniform again. Except for basic, I basically never left home during my 3 years of service. I was luckily. New guys from Bragg and Holabird who were sent to Nam and never made it home. God bless them and thank you’ll for your service, too. Regards.
    -Mike

    Comment by Michael Bloomer — November 16, 2014 @ 6:05 pm

  1388. A comment of my 1380 comment above: Does anybody who was at Ft Holabird in the mid 1960’s remember the mockup of the Viet Nam village site located somewhere outside the post where the Intelligence School held Nam orientation and intelligence tactics training? Think it was in park somewhere. One day as students we were assigned to play the roles of Viet Cong insurgents at the site. We had to “bury” weapons and pretend we were just villagers, not Cong. Wearing black pajamas, straw hats, and carrying wooden rifles, we were transported to the site in an uncovered duce and a half. We got a lot of strange looks from other motorists who wonder what the heck we were. It was really funny. Don’t know why I remember that except it was so bizarre. Regards.
    -Mike
    mgbloomer@comcast.net

    Comment by Michael Bloomer — November 16, 2014 @ 6:31 pm

  1389. Hello:
    Long time since I posted. I was just passing through and saw an entry by Wayne Akemoto (1342). What a surprise, I remember Wayne joining the 526th MID on Okinawa from Vietnam. His father, Charles was a warrant officer and one of the smartest and nicest guys that I have ever met. I was 23, an agent and having a great time. I sometimes did some things that I was not particularly proud of, usually involving alcohol. I remember Charles offering some wise advice in a way that I later realized was done in a casual and non threatening way. I never had a chance to thank him and tell him that I really did enjoy our conversations. Glad to hear that all is well Wayne, btw, I always felt that my time on the Rock gave me a time to mature and enabled me to move forward when I came home. Happy Thanksgiving

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 19, 2014 @ 9:52 pm

  1390. Guys,

    My presentation on the History of Fort Holabird, at the Dundalk and Patapsco Neck Historical Society has been changed to March 16, 2015 a at 7:00 p.m. (Ref. 1377).

    Thank you,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 21, 2014 @ 3:05 pm

  1391. For some reason, my latest post was deleted. To reiterate, my presentation at the Dundalk – Patapsco Neck Historical Society, on the History of Fort Holabird, has been changed to March 16, 2015 at 7:00 p.m.

    Thank you!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 25, 2014 @ 7:26 pm

  1392. It has been a while since I visited this site. Just want to wish a Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Holabird alumni and their families, and to all service members past and present. A special greeting to my grandson Charles IV , serving with the big Red One in Kansas.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — November 26, 2014 @ 2:30 pm

  1393. For you Holabird fanatics, an excellent view of the Post can be found at http://www.waynedow.net/pdffiles/extract4.pdf. You can also Google, Fort Holabird, and locate this website on page 3 listed as “(PDF) Fort Holabird – Dow”. In it you will find the Officers’ Guide Description which gives a complete description and history of the Post. Included are several excellent pics: HQ Bldg. #12, Barracks Bldg., Parade Field, Chapel, Library, Theatre, Officers’s Club, Swimming Pool, Fort Holabird Boat, Army Intelligence School. Also included are: a Commencement Brochure and pics of Gen. Samuel B. Holabird, the Quartermaster Depot, and others.

    Happy Thanksgiving!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 27, 2014 @ 2:21 pm

  1394. Phil(1383)

    Best overall coverage of FT. Holabird I have seen to date. Coverage of Colgate Creek may not have enhanced article!
    Thanks,Phil.
    Ed(187)

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — November 28, 2014 @ 9:18 pm

  1395. Reference to post 1380. Good to read about your relationship with my father. We had a pretty unique situation having a father and son in the same unit. For a few months, I worked directly under my dad. The situation was a little difficult, but all worked out well in the end. My dad passed in 2001 and is interred at Punchbowl. Richard, for your info, Ernie Nagasawa and John Mock are also at Punchbowl. In fact, COL Mock passed away in August. He and his wife Phyllis are in the same niche. Don’t know if you remember Itsuo Tokunaga, but he is also at Punchbowl. Drop me a line at lhswayne@hawaiiantel.net

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — November 28, 2014 @ 9:31 pm

  1396. RE: Post 1383, Great pamphlet and pictures. It brought back a lot of memories that I had completely forgot.

    Comment by Bill — November 28, 2014 @ 11:45 pm

  1397. Phil (1383),
    Thanks for your last post and ditto Ed. You keep us posting.
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — November 30, 2014 @ 8:43 am

  1398. Manny, Bill, and Ed,

    Thank you for the feedback on the Fort Holabird – Dow site. At the time, I used to blame Maryland’s 2 U.S. Senators for the closing of our beloved Post. However, since then I discovered this information on another site under “Fort Holabird”. Back in 1965, the Army made the determination that the Post’s training capacity was strained to the limit, due to the fact that a double shift of classes had to run in order to meet the needs imposed by the war in Vietnam. Around the year 1970, potential relocation sites were Fort Lewis and Fort Huachuca. Reasoning supporting such a move included the following: there was little if any room for expansion at the present location, in fact, there was not enough open airspace for the movement of personnel and equipment via that means. Additionally, the Army wanted an uncluttered electomagnetic spectrum, which the Post simply could not provide there.

    Hence, the official transfer began on 5/03/1971 and was completed by 9/03/1971. The final graduation class concluded their ceremonies on 9/02/1971.

    The above helped me to understand the decision to move to Huachaca somewhat better. I also found some satisifaction in the fact that all of the local politicians fought very heard to preserve the Post and to save its 2000 civilian jobs and to keep our 3000 military personnel stationed there.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 30, 2014 @ 4:19 pm

  1399. What a great find 43 years after I graduated from the MI School at Fort Holabird in late February or early March of 1971. We all knew that we were one of the last classes to graduate from Fort Holabird before it moved to Arizona, and we all knew it was a special place, unique to military training experiences, almost like going back to college. What a privilege to be there. Watergate’s John Dean and Charles Colson were “incarcerated there at the time and we were told to stay away from them. I remember the “Block” was a place in Baltimore a good soldier should have stayed away from. Also remember watching the newly released movie on base,”Tora, Tora, Tora”. M/\.I.’s in the movie were sort of portrayed as heroes, and with every mentioned of M.I. in the movie great cheers went up. Nearly our entire class were sent to Vietnam from Fort Holabird, trained as combat analysts we were sent all over the place, and I wound up at the 720th MP Bn, 18th MP Brigade, Long Binh Post. The 720th provided security and some combat coverage for convoys throughout the 3rd and 4th quarters of VN. While in Vietnam, those of us that were there, met on several occasions in Saigon for a little R&R and to maintain the great relationships that we developed at Holabird. There was very little contact after our tour in Vietnam. If anybody reads this, are you aware of any reunions of classes graduating from Holabird during this time period? I hope most of us are still around! – Ted Latham, still from New Jersey

    Comment by Ted Latham — December 6, 2014 @ 11:32 pm

  1400. What a great find 43 years after graduating from Fort Holabird in Baltimore in late February or early March, 1971.We all knew that we would be one of the last classes to graduate as combat analysts before Holabird moved to Arizona. I remember those of us that had any sense stayed away from the “Block” in Baltimore, I remember I felt like I was back in college and privileged/lucky to be in such a great place, also remember seeing John Dean and Charles Colson (of Watergate Fame who were “incarcerated” for a while at Holabird), the area taverns and trips to Baltimore and DC, and watching the recently released movie “Tora, Tora, Tora” at the base theater were we all went wild with chairs after every mention of the role of M.I. types at Pearl Harbor. Most of the analysts from my class were sent to various locations in Vietnam. I was sent to the 720th MP Bn, 18th MP Brig, at Long Binh Post. While in Vietnam members of our class maintained our close relationships by organizing R&R trips to Saigon. After we got home we pretty drifted apart. If anyone knows of any reunions that exist for those of us who were at Holabird in 1971, I would appreciate a post with that info. I hope most of us are still around! Ted Latham – still from New Jersey

    Comment by Ted Latham — December 6, 2014 @ 11:47 pm

  1401. Hi all. I’m looking for anyone that may have known my late father, Gary Lange, who was at Ft. Holabird from 27May68-11Sep68, finishing up as a 97B40. I believe he was then assigned to HHC XXIV Corp USARPAC-Vn on 20Oct68. Thanks.

    Comment by J Lange — December 11, 2014 @ 5:47 am

  1402. I helped build the first Special Security Office (SSO) at Fort Huachuca with Major Hilbert and send the first secure message on 1 November 1968.
    In 1970 we received a visit notification that MG McChristian, ACSI, DA was coming to visit the post. McChristian had been a West Point classmate of MG Lotz, Commander, STRATCOM and Fort Huachuca.
    The primary briefer during the visit was COL Roy Kane, Commander, Combat Surveillance and Electronic Warfare School and also included the Commander of the US Army Security Agency Test & Evaluation Center.
    McChristian was scheduled to depart on a Friday, but his aide called the SSO and asked that an Eyes Only Message be sent to the Pentagon to notify the ACSI staff that McChristian was staying in Arizona over the weekend.
    In 1971, I delivered the Eyes Only message from BG Blakefield to MG Latta, new commander of STRATCOM, announcing that Fort Huachuca was selected as the new home for Military Intelligence. MG Latta, AKA “Wild Bill” paid little attention to the very short message on a late Friday afternoon. Apparently, when he finally read the message and made some phone calls, the entire STRATCOM staff was called in on a Saturday morning to evaluate this news and find reasons to delay and even block the move.
    Lotz and McChristian, along with Roy Kane, had made personal commitments that Latta was not aware of.

    Roy Kane retired in 1972 and became the Dean/Chief of setting up a campus for the local junior college, Cochise College, on Fort Huachuca and eventually a large second campus in Sierra Vista, AZ, in addition to the main campus near Douglas, AZ.

    MG Latta later retired in Sierra Vista and was a partner in some of the largest real estate developments in the area.

    My wife and I just purchased four acres of land south of Fort Huachuca for our retirement.

    Comment by Clark Hunt — December 11, 2014 @ 7:45 pm

  1403. What a great site. Found it yesterday and have been reading and remembering ever since. Was stationed at Holabird twice during 28 years in MI. First was Jan-May 66 for the 97B CI Agent Course. Then spent a year and a half with the 526th on Okinawa, first at Camp Kue doing investigations under CWO Charley McCarthy, then running sources out of the Naha Field Office. We had a great bunch of guys there; spent time at Club Cobean with Pete Nelson (Who was my best man a few years later), Bart Chimenti, Mario Fascitelli, Rick Duarte, Craig Arnot, Tom Turse, and many others. A couple months before I was due to rotate, the Commander, LTC John Mock and the SGM, Richard Radachowsky, convinced me that I should re-enlist for 6 yrs which would allow me to put $10,000 in the bank; then I should apply for OCS, and, upon graduation, I would only owe the Army 2 years. Was then sent back to Holabird from Jan to Aug 68 to wait for an OCS class, during which I worked at the FTX committee with MSG Carter, Don Clifton, John Verrecchia, Joe Bandiera, and many others, spending lots of time at Fort Howard and leading students on surveillance exercises in downtown Bawlmer. Will send more input at a later date about my other 25 years in the business, the high point of which was commanding JAROC (B) for two and a half years. Best to all the Birders. Dave Baker.

    Comment by Dave Baker — December 20, 2014 @ 4:40 pm

  1404. WAYNW AKEMOTO;TWICE I HAAVE TRIED TO SEND LTR WITH PIX TO YOU VIA THE E-MAIL ADDRESS YOU HAVE GIVEN . BUT BOTH TIMES HAS BEEN REJECTED(DOES NOT EXIST). EVIDENTLY I AM DOING SOMETHING WRONG. HERE S THE ADD. I AM USING; 1hswayne@hawaiiantel.net. IS THIS CORRECT? DAVE BAKER; I WAS AT THE 526TH FROM DEC. 63 TO JUNE 65. THE NAME CRAIG ARNOT IS THE ONLY NAME I RECOGNIZE FROM YOUR ENTRY. DID LT.COL. JOHN MOCK REPLACE LT.COL. JOHN FINNEGAN? WAS LUCE STILL THE S-1 BOSS? WHO WAS IN CHARGE OF S-2.? I WAS IN CHARGE OF THE FILE ROOM FOR A WHILE(HAPPENED TO BE IN THERE STUDYING SOME FILES WHEN THE SGT, IN CHARGE HAD TO BE SENT BACK STATESIDE;WIFE VERY ILL) MAJOR KURATA AND W/O OWENS CAME IN AND SAID”BURT, YOU ARE NOW IN CHARGE OF THE FILE ROOM FROM THIS POINT ON”. I DID GET INTO SECURITY LATER.MY “BOSS” WAS W/O BILL RAY. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — December 20, 2014 @ 8:19 pm

  1405. #1403. Glad to hear you are still kicking Dave. Several of the guys from that era are gone. I stayed in until 1997 and ended up with 35 years active. Still love memories of the “Bird”. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all the “Bird clan”.

    Comment by Don Clifton — December 20, 2014 @ 8:59 pm

  1406. Ted,

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 20, 2014 @ 9:38 pm

  1407. Ted,

    In checking 3 of the national MI association websites (MICA, NCICA, and NMIA), I see no reunions/meetings planned for 2015. Father Time and geography seem to be significant challenges for future getogethers.

    Baltimore Birdman

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 20, 2014 @ 9:46 pm

  1408. Wow…posts running in batches. Happy holidays.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — December 21, 2014 @ 7:32 am

  1409. Re: 1404 – LTC Mock did replace LTC Finnegan at the 526th. Don’t remember names Luce, Kurata, Owens, or Ray. SP5 Noble Gross was a good friend, but don’t remember his job. A CWO named Al Grissino was there; don’t remember his job but he coached our softball team, I think. For anyone wanting direct contact, my e-mail address is dcbakerjr43@gmail.com. More in a couple weeks after I rack my memory some more. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

    Comment by Dave Baker — December 21, 2014 @ 7:03 pm

  1410. Re: 1404. My address is lhswayne@hawaiiantel.net. The first part is not the numeric “one” but the letter l as in lima. Hope to get your correspondence. Best wishes to you this holiday season. Wayne Akemoto

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — December 22, 2014 @ 10:02 pm

  1411. To all of my Ft. Holabird associates a MERRY CHRISTMAS! May God bless America and protect our Republic. Good health wishes to all.
    Ed.H.

    Comment by Edward W. Hotchkiss — December 23, 2014 @ 10:53 pm

  1412. Comrades,

    I picked my copy of this week’s Dundalk Eagle, the local newspaper, and found an article entitled, “Friends of Fort Howard Park Seek Help in Preserving Historic Site.” In it, there as a call for those interested in becoming a Friends of Fort Howard Park volunteer. You may be asking yourselves, how this relate to Fort Holabird? Well, during the Vietnam War, the Army Intelligence School set up a mock Vietnamese village for Special Forces training at the site, which was about 20 minutes away from the Bird by car. Additionally, Field Training Exercises were held there for special agents and area studies types, sometimes with the assistance of the Fort Holabird WAC Detachment. Their participation ultimately had to be terminated because it led to too much fraternization among the troops.
    Anyway, if you are interested in lending your support, you can contact the Edgewood-Sparrows Point Program Committee at rfs1920@hotmail.com

    Merry Christmas!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 24, 2014 @ 2:04 pm

  1413. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. Turned a folder over in my attic and found some holiday photos from the 108th. I think it was 1968. I was the youngest one there. But boy were we all so young.

    God bless you all!

    Dave

    Comment by Dave Edmonds — December 25, 2014 @ 7:00 pm

  1414. A commercial I enjoyed recently was the Sainsbury Christmas Commercial of 2014. Although it has taken on some controversy because it was put together by a for profit business, one has to moved by seeing a brief celebration of friendship between two opposing forces during WWI. This is especially poignant for me as my maternal grandfather fought in The Great War.

    Please Google, “the Sainsbury Christmas Commercial of 2014.”

    Happy New Year!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 26, 2014 @ 9:53 pm

  1415. Great video for this time of year, thanks Phil.

    Comment by Bill — December 26, 2014 @ 11:13 pm

  1416. Re:1409

    Dave……welcome and FINALLY a post from a JAROC (B) member! I was at the Bird in 1968 also….96C2L29 and went from Baltimore to Berlin via tne 66th MI Group ( at that time HQ’d at McGraw Kaserne in Munich). Spent some great years in Berlin at then JROC (B) and the Notaufnahme Lager -Marienfelde. Would love to drop you an email, but wanted to give you a heads up first.

    Merry Christmas and a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year to all.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 28, 2014 @ 7:00 am

  1417. Gary – Would be glad to hear from you. Can’t remember the name of the lady in charge of my screening team at Marienfelde, but remember she was really good. Was JROC at Sven Hedin Strasse during your tour? Did you have Brit and French members? Did you ever get temp Redtrain visitors up from West Germany? E-mail is dcbakerjr43@g.mail.com.

    Comment by Dave Baker — December 29, 2014 @ 5:47 pm

  1418. the Vietnamese village was at fort howard- attended exercises there from 64-67

    Comment by frank stella — December 29, 2014 @ 11:36 pm

  1419. Ted,

    I have been thinking about what you said in your last post concerning possible reunions. This is something I have mentioned in previous posts with very mixed responses. I realize that for most of our fellow Birdmen who live over 2 hours away, a getogether wouldn’t be feasible, however, those of us residing in Maryland and the surrounding states could possibly do it. I would suggest something low key on a Friday. This could include a lunch and a tour of what remains of our beloved Post. Please email me with your thoughts about something that we could do in the spring of next year. My email is ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 30, 2014 @ 8:46 pm

  1420. Ref # 164 Dick Leiweke. Just noticed your post, Dick. Dick Murphy was still there upstairs in Section 1 when you were there. He had enlisted. I left the Army in June 1955 and accepted a job with 66th CIC in Germany. It was nearly a life changer. I worked in the Refugee Relief Program and when it folded I was offered a job at Camp King in Oberursel. But, my parents offered to sell me the family business with no down payment, and I chose to follow the money. My wife and I both loved it in Germany. Murphy went into the State Department and retired as Assistant Secretary of the Middle East. He see each other about every other year in NY City where he lives and our two granddaughters are employed. I still am in touch with old CIC buddies. CIC was a heady experience, especially in Washington DC in the 116th.

    Comment by Jim Downs — December 31, 2014 @ 10:09 pm

  1421. Ref 1398

    Phil, Thanks for the pointer to the Holabird – Dow website. It is great! Thanks as well for the info about Fort Holabird closing. I had thought that the closing largely came about because of the civil unrest of the times. The facts appear to be more reasonable. Happy New Year to all who went through Fort H!

    Comment by Bob Fox — January 1, 2015 @ 3:21 pm

  1422. I found information on another website, acicv.org, citing that they will be holding a reunion from April 27th to May 1st in 2015. The abreviation stands for Army Counter Intelligence Corps Veterans, Inc.. The reunion will take place in Stony Brook, NY. Please consult their site for upcoming details.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 3, 2015 @ 3:41 pm

  1423. Any one out there who graduated from Holabird in the spring of ’61 and/or was at 5th Army HQ Chicago from ’60 through ’62?

    Comment by Bob Quaglia — January 4, 2015 @ 12:28 pm

  1424. Weird. I come back here from time to time and even made a couple of postings. I’ve yet to see anyone who spent any time in the 108th INTC Group (NY) much less the Buffalo (NY) FO. And TUSLOG, or Turkey? Pfft. ‘Course those were “attach” duty to pantywaists ASA units.

    Anyhow, happy new year to all you old spooks and scribes, wherever you served. Hoo-ah!

    Comment by Bill — January 4, 2015 @ 9:03 pm

  1425. Bill,

    You may get a response if you list your email address. I have done so and have gotten feedback from some individuals who have never posted on this site. Additionally, I have been monitoring the site for over a year and one-half and have yet to see anyone post from either my agent class in 1969 or my photo Intell. class in 1970. In spite of this, I still am hopeful. Finally, in combing through all of the emails since it’s inception, over 60 individuals have listed either their personal or corporate email addresses, some on multiple occasions.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 5, 2015 @ 2:21 pm

  1426. RE; DAVE BAKER AND WAYNE AKEMOTO; GLAD TO READ YOUR ENTRIES REFERRING TO THE 526TH INTC DET. ON OKINAWA. DAVE, I ALSO PLAYED ON THE UNITS SOFTBALL TEAM. WE HAD A FEW EDXPERIENCED PLAYERS AND SOME ROOKIES. ALSO A COUPLE OF VERY GOOD FAST-BALL PITCHERS. PROBLEM WAS THEY COULD NOT MAKE ALL THE GAMES AND OUR “THIRD” PITCHER PITCHED LIKE HE WAS PITCHING TO HIS TEN YEAR BOY. WE HAD A GOOD SEASON IN ’65 AND I BATTED OVER .500. EXPLANATION. I’M LEFT-HANDED AND LEARNED HOW TO BUNT WHEN I PLAYED LITTLE LEAGUE BASEBALL. I BUNTED PROBABLY OVER FIFTY PER-CENT OF THE TIME. EVEN WHEN THE FIRST AND THIRD BASEMEN KNEW I WAS GOING TO BUNT I STILL WAS ABLE TO PLACE THE BALL IN AN AREA TO ALLOW ME TO REACH BASE(I WAS A FAST SPRINTER). OUR C.O., COL. FINNEGAN WAS A VERY SPORTTS-MINDED MAN AND USUALLY HIM, HISWIFE AND 5 OR 6 OF HIS KIDS ATTENDED THE GAMES. WE PLAYED AGAINST THE 999 SIGNAL CORPS, MAINTENANCE COMMAND,STAR COM,SSC(?),TRANSPORTATION,AND B&VA. SOFTBALL, WAS A GOOD RELIEF FROM OUR “JOBS” NOW, A NAME I HAD ALMOST FORGOTTEN, SAMUEL P.YARMOLINSKI. ONE OF THE GREAT, PROFESSIONAL, GENTLEMAN, AGENTS I EVER HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE TO KNOW AND WORK WITH. NOTICE THE FIRST LETTERS OF EACH PART OF HIS NAME. WAS FROM NEW WNGLAND; HAD A FAVORITE RESPONSE FOR ANYTHING THAT WAS. THE BEST, EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD, ETC. “TOP DRAWER’. OF COURSE IT CAME OUT OF HIS MOUTH AS IF J.F.K. WAS SAYING IT.”TOP DRAHHR”. NEVER KNEW WHETHER HE WAS A W.O., OR HIGH RANK N.C.O.. WAS NOT A COMISSIONED OFFICER, I KNOW. ALSO HIS AGE AT THAT TIME, APPEARED TO BE FIFTY OR MORE BUT I DOUBT THAT. HARD TO THINK I’M WAY OLDER THAN HIM AND THE ONES I WORKED WITH AT THE 526TH. I’LL BE 75 ON THE 14TH OF JANUARY. STILL FEEL LIKE I;M ONLY 71 OR 72.! HAH! ALL FOR NOW. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — January 6, 2015 @ 10:40 pm

  1427. CORRECTION TO NAME OF THE OLDER AGENT I WAS TALKING ABOUT IN PREVIOUS LTR; THE AGENT I ADMIRED A LOT WAS PETE MAHLIA. THERE WAS A SAMUEL P. YARMOLINSKI AGENT IN OUR UNIT AT ONE TIME. HE WAS ASSIGNED TO RELIEVE ME OF MY JOB IN CHARGE OF THE FILE ROOM OF WHICH I WAS MOST GRATEFUL. T THEN WAS ASSIGNED TO SECURITY WORKING FOR W-2 BILL RAY. SORRY BOUT THE NAME MIX-UP. A BIT OF DEMENTIA WORKING THERE!! BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — January 9, 2015 @ 8:58 pm

  1428. Post 1423 Bob Quaglia- I was in 9666 basic course from March-May 1961. Then on to ALS and 20 assorted years.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — January 12, 2015 @ 6:15 pm

  1429. Ben Burt,

    Happy Birthday! Live long and prosper!

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 14, 2015 @ 8:54 am

  1430. THANKS,PHIL. MAY WE ALL LIVE FOR MANY MORE YEARS. I HAVE PARKINSONS(DIAGNOSED ABOUT FUVE YEARS AGO) TAKING ALL APPROPRIATE MEDS TO TRYTO MAINTAIN STAATUS QUO; KNOW THERE IS NO KNOWN CURE AT THIS TIME,BUT YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT CAN HAPPEN ANY DAY NOW. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — January 19, 2015 @ 12:02 am

  1431. Ben. I was diagnosed with Parkinson’s about two years ago. Have you looked into the Michael J. Fox org.? They put out a lot of good information.

    Comment by Don Clifton — January 19, 2015 @ 9:54 am

  1432. Ben and Don,

    I certainly wish you all the very best. Where do each of you hail from? I already have Ben’s email address. Don, please send me yours and I will send you some information about Holabird you might enjoy.

    Thanks,

    Phil
    Ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 19, 2015 @ 11:07 am

  1433. Phil- Re: post 1425, thanx for the hint.

    While at the ‘Bird, 11/61-4/62, I was married and lived off-post at 7038 Eastern Ave (Google Maps street shot shows essentially no change since Jan ’62!) so I didn’t get to do all the fun stuff (?) you guys in the barracks did like drink and eat pizza… and march across the bouncing bridge over the creek.

    From there it was off to 60 Linda Drive, Cheektowaga, NY, and the Buffalo FO, 108th INTC Grp. in the Swann St. Post Office.

    In July ’63 it was off to TUSLOG Det 27, Cerkeshuyuk, Turkey, also off-post living in Ankara, a nasty 40 km bus ride to the north. I lived in mortal fear of being hit by a case of the Turkey Trots (AKA: Montezuma’s Revenge) on that one hour ride each way. Lucked out, tho’ thanks to bismuth & paregoric (“liquid cork”) and compazine for the gas cramps. Ah, the ugly side of nostalgia rears its ugly head!

    Bill Schulz, schulznotee@usa2net.net

    Comment by Bill — January 19, 2015 @ 10:20 pm

  1434. PHIL; DONT MIND TELLING YOU OR AS WE SAY HERE “Y’ALL” I LIVE IN FORT WORTH,TEXAS. “COWTOWN” TO THE LOCALS. ITS RODEO AND STOCK SHOW TIME HERE NOW. LOTS OF VISITING FOLKS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES: LIKE, OKLAHOMA, KANSAS, NEW MEXICO, COLORADO ETC. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — January 19, 2015 @ 11:37 pm

  1435. Ben,

    Thanks for providing your 20. Believe or not, I went to a rodeo in Carroll County, MD when I was a kid. There I watched Joni Eareckson display her horseback riding skills.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 20, 2015 @ 5:32 pm

  1436. Bill,

    Thanks for the feedback on your MI/Holabird experience. I missed the beer and pizza as I was home with my family. The whistle blew and I could not wait to fly home in my 66′ Ford Custom V-8. One day, heading west on Rt. 40, I was driving and my hot rod got rear ended. The force pushed me into the car in front of me. Although I had major damage to the rear and some damage to the front end, the car was still drivable, so the cops let me go. Another time, I was driving on Eastern Ave. with the windows down and this guy jumped in on the passenger side. It took me several blocks of cajoling to get him out of my car.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 20, 2015 @ 5:47 pm

  1437. Looking for some fellas to chat with that maybe knew my father from 1944-1955 at Holabird/BSD. He was in the radar/radio shop, supposedly on the Glenn L. Martin site in Middle River. His 201 file says he worked for the War Dept/Army/Holabird during this time and he was a civilian employee. He was WWII 1941-1943. Chat?? arrendakatherine@gmail.com or facebook.com/arrenda

    His name was Richard M. Tarkington…maybe you knew his as Dick or Mr. T or something else?

    Comment by Arrenda — January 27, 2015 @ 4:15 am

  1438. My father, Ross Cooper, Jr. was stationed at Fort Holabird in late 1954, early 1955 as something called, a 2111th ASU – Station Compliment Holabird, CIC Section Chief, Captain. Can you tell me what this is all about?> I was stunned to find this site. Nobody has ever heard of Holabird. I drove there once and it’s basically all gone. Please email be at ccspaulding@verizon.net Love to know more about the place then. Sadly, my dad is long gone.

    Comment by Cheryl Spaulding — January 27, 2015 @ 3:40 pm

  1439. Katherine and Cheryl,

    Unfortunately, I did not know your Dads, however, I do know something about Military Intelligence and Fort Holabird, past and present. Please send me an email if you would like to chat further at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 30, 2015 @ 8:20 pm

  1440. My dear friend and mentor, Richard Cayford, passed away yesterday in San Luis Obispo, CA. Be enlisted and served in the infantry in Korea before being sent stateside to teach small arms to cadets at West Point. He then went to Holabird for agent training and spent years in Germany during the cold war. He returned to take the officers courses and after two tours in Nam, returned for a year before retiring as a Major in 1969. We remained friends for the next 45 years. He had been hospitalized for the past few months. A real Holabird Agent. God Bless.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 14, 2015 @ 8:01 pm

  1441. Gordon,

    My sincere sympathies for the loss of your friend and mentor, Richard. May he rest in peace.

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 16, 2015 @ 10:41 am

  1442. What a great surprise to find this site. Just happened to find it when trying to locate Ft. Holabird on Google Earth. Before I begin, many thanks to the creator Jim, and a few of the many long time facilitators like Manny, Ed, Phil, etc., who have helped to keep the comments coming for over 11 years.

    I arrived at Ft. Holabird from basic at Ft. Gordon in February of 1970 and graduated several months later as a 96D2T (Image Interpreter, II). We had a great class, our instructor was a Marine E-7, and after graduation, half of us were sent to Germany and my half was sent to Viet Nam.

    This site opened so many windows of memory, the smells, the bouncing bridge, the college campus atmosphere, etc., etc. I smile when I remember our bad behavior at the post movie theater with all the ongoing commentary from the audience during the movie (I felt bad for any of you that brought a date). No one has mentioned the Lexington Market downtown, that meant a lot to a future foodie like me.

    After graduation I was assigned to the II Section of the 172 MID, 173 Airborne Brigade, LZ English, northeastern 2 Corp, Bong Son, RVN. Since we were only a Brigade size unit we weren’t assigned to work on Mohawk Imagery like Side Looking Airborne Radar(SLAR), or Infrared. Since II’s are pretty good at reading maps, they put our section on flight status to work with the Chemical Corps operators of a gadget referred to as the “Sniffer”(E63, M3 “mechanical personnel detector”). The Sniffer Missions were also known as “Snoopy”. Since we were placed on flight status, we got a little extra in our paycheck which seemed like a big deal back then.

    Sure hope the Holabird memories keep coming for at least another 11 years. Those of us in the later classes at Fort Holabird are now hitting our retirement years and with that a lot more spare time on our hands. Hopefully that will translate into more posts to this site.

    Also, re post #215, Bill Harrison, we served together at LZ English, would love to hear from you.

    Comment by Mark Robinson — February 19, 2015 @ 2:52 pm

  1443. Hi Mark,

    Welcome to the site! Great to hear from a fellow Birdman! Looks like I just missed you as I went through Photo Intell. Class in May-June of 1970, before I shipped out to Korea.

    The fort is a shadow of its former self as I am sure you have seen by my postings over the past year. However, the VVA is still there occupying the former Officers Open Mess for monthly meetings and weekend meals and drinks.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 20, 2015 @ 11:31 am

  1444. Mark (#1442),

    Welcome and thanks for spelling out the acronym(s).

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — February 20, 2015 @ 12:31 pm

  1445. Phil (1443)That’s how I discovered this site. I was searching on Google Earth between the Broening Hwy and Dundalk Ave looking for the big brick building. Next time I visit Baltimore I’ll be sure to drive by to walk Holabird Park and try to catch a weekend meal at the VVA site.

    And to Manny (1444), I went to school on your previous comments about the use of acronyms.

    I look forward to revisiting this site for years to come, God willing…..Mark

    Comment by Mark Robinson — February 21, 2015 @ 2:40 pm

  1446. Hey Mark,

    The next time you check Google Earth, enter 6401 Beckley St. Then you will be able to get the frontal view of the Officers Open Mess. It is from the year 2012 so you will see the Huey Cobra gunship on the left. Since that picture was taken, it has been removed. However, the Sheridan Tank is still visible on the right front. Unfortunately, the big brick building is gone.
    If you come to Baltimore on a Friday, I would be glad to meet you for lunch and a tour of the remaining post. Unless you are a member of the VVA, as I am, you may not be able to dine there unless a member can sign you into the facility. I can be reached at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 21, 2015 @ 5:09 pm

  1447. Mark(#1442)

    Welcome to a unique place that we all seemed to have stumbled upon.Your addition will help to keep this site of special patriots Klicking.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — February 21, 2015 @ 6:16 pm

  1448. I continue to enjoy the posts here, even as someone who was only a few years old when the Intelligence Center left Fort Holabird for Fort Huachuca. Almost 2 years ago I posted here to ask that fellow 902d alumni who visit this site contact me in support of my historical project regarding the Deuce, and I’m back again today to ask that same thing again. Please drop me an email at jacksonbe@outlook.com if you care to help preserve the history of our distinguished organization.

    Comment by Brian Jackson — February 22, 2015 @ 6:03 pm

  1449. I was a member of a class for Special Agents from Sep. 1963 thru Jan. 1964, TDY en route to the Dayton, Ohio, FO, Region 4, 109th. My recollection of the day JFK was murdered is a bit different from a previous post. We had just gone from lunch back to class in which we were watching a grainy B/W film on a surveillance in – somewhere I don’t recall. The instructor, a warrant officer, had gone into the hallway for a smoke. Half of us were half asleep. The WO came through the door in the rear of the classroom, clicked on the light, turned off the projector, and announced that the President had been shot in Dallas. He was crying. He told us to return to barracks and not to leave without permission. At about four o’clock, the barracks NCO released us. I went to Washington and stayed with an aunt, watching TV news, eating takeout, and drinking. For me, this was one of the great earthquakes of my early life and, I still believe, a turning point in the life of the nation. I spent 2 1/2 years running BIs in western Ohio. I learned a lot of useful lessons about how the real world worked, especially the law enforcement community. I was offered OCS but took a two-month early out to finish college where I started. The Army was my first adult job. I was given responsibility, accepted it, and was rewarded. I was promoted to E-6 a few months before I was discharged. Earning that rank was a proud moment. The Army was good to me. As it happens, I bookended my work life with jobs at HQDA and the Defense Security Service, from which I retired in 2012. I have to say, I have general amnesia about Ft. Holabird. I remember the typing class, a very good con law course, the silly surveillance exercise in downtown Baltimore, a frozen January weekend at Ft. Howard using WW II maps of Yugoslavia, and a lot of beer at the bar outside the gate. I was happy to take the train from Baltimore to Dayton and get on with the work. I remember Master Sergeant Fred Powell, who met me at the train station in Dayton, got me settled in a room at the Y, and taught me how to live with the Army. Powell had been in the Army longer than I’d been alive. He’d been a captain, got caught in the Eisenhower RIFs, and reverted to his permanent rank. When I was bitching about something trivial one day, he said, “Tom, there’s a right way, a wrong way, and the Army way. Do it the Army way.” This was a lesson for life. Translated, it meant pick your fights. I remember Jim Koon, an enlisted agent my age, and LT Fred Stefany and his wife Jane, who became friends of me and my wife. Stefany had been an enlisted agent, later left the Army, and went to NSA as, I think, an investigator. Another lieutenant got caught curbstoning and was sent into exile. I would do it again without regret.

    Comment by Tom Lewis — February 22, 2015 @ 9:28 pm

  1450. Brian (#1448)
    I spent about five years in the 902d at Ft Meade first under Col Mike Hix, who recruited me out of Berlin where I had worked for him at JAROC (B), and then under other Cdrs. Finally retired out of Ft Meade in 1993 after almost 28 yrs in the business. Will look thru my old files in the next few days and get back to you via email to see if you have any specific questions.

    Comment by Dave Baker — February 23, 2015 @ 12:09 am

  1451. Manny,
    I was a graduate of the “bird” class 57-B-16A. As a special agent (Sp4) I was assigned to the “duce” (902nd) and was further assigned as the head of the classified document library. My CO was Lt/Col Fred Eggers. I was at the duce for two years and while there received a direct commission as a 2nd Lt.
    After serving the 2 years I was transferred to the MI reserves in NYC. The CIC unit was dissolved and became the 24th MI Bn. We were activated for the Cuban Missal
    event where I was sent back to the bird for a 6 months Photo Intel course. After the crises concluded the 24th had little to do so I transferred to the Navy and its Photo Intel unit at NAS Floyd Bennett. Promotions during my tenure there led me to head the unit until my service retirement as a CDR.
    In reviewing some of the emails in the above I saw that it was possible to get a plaque with a special agent repro of our badge etc. Is this still available and if so how does one go about getting same.
    Many thanks for the web site, it sure brings back memories.
    Bob Becker

    Comment by Robert Becker — February 25, 2015 @ 11:33 am

  1452. Well, I have just spent about an hour reading through the posts on here. It seems as if almost all of the posts I read were by students at Holabird. I was permenant party, USAINTC, building 136. I arrived in February of 1963 from Fort Ben Harrison, IN. I was assigned to Pay Records section processing incoming students. Also, spent time in the kitchen as an OJT cook for a few months, then into the orderly room as Morning Reports Clerk (thanks Gary). Capt Heidman was CO at the time. 1st Sgt was “Mr Clean” who HAD been the head of the NCO club. XO was Lt. Gary Foreman. After spending many months as M.R. Clerk, I was reassigned to Troop Command as clerk there under Col. Jerry Wimberly who actually seemed to spend most of his time doing his homework assignments for College classes. His secretary was Mrs. Ortelt. Cannot remember the name of the XO of Troop Command (a LCol.) or the Sr. NCO of the unit.
    I do remember going to the NCO club every Saturday after Jr. NRA classes (I was an instructor there) to play Hearts with SSgt Davis and SMaj ?? and an SP5 whose name escapes me. Loser of the game would buy drinks and we would all sit there and get tipsy after 4 or 5 hours of cards. What a way to get out of Saturday morning drills.
    Anyhow, ETSed from Holabird in Sept. 1965. Stayed in Baltimore for several years because I married a local girl from Parkville that I met while taking night classes at Loyola College on N. Charles Street. We divorced after 10 years and 3 children. During my time in Baltimore, I spent several years as a Police Officer with the BCPD. I ended up leaving Baltimore in 1980 to return to my hometown of Tampa, FL. then returned to Baltimore in May of 2012 to get remarried. Still living in S.E. Baltimore County in Middle River.
    I have returned several times to the site of Ft. Holabird and been moved to tears seeing the place changed from my home of 32 months to an industrial park. The ONLY place remaining of the post is the Officers Club building and their pool which has been converted to a Viet Nam Veterans of America (VVA) home.
    Thanks for taking the time to read my meanderings and wanderings. If you know anyone that was there doring my time there, please let them know of my posting.
    Tim Neuman (timothyneuman@ymail.com).

    Comment by Tim Neuman — February 27, 2015 @ 3:06 pm

  1453. Tim(1452):

    It seems almost everyone served at another time than anyone else. Intel sure knew how to compartimentalize
    us, didn’t they?

    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — March 5, 2015 @ 4:49 pm

  1454. Hi Many,

    I agree with you with a couple of additions. At Fort Holabird, CIC training began as early as 1947 and the last graduation class concluded their ceremonies on 9/02/1971. Because of this, numerous personnel from various service branches went through training on a variety of Intell. MOS types. As you are my senior, I did not go through agent school until 1968 – 1969. At that time, they were gearing up for assignments to go to Vietnam especially with 40 personnel in each class on double shifts. That is a lot of spooks!

    I have been carefully searching this site from when you did the first posting and have yet to find anyone that I knew from my time spent there.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 5, 2015 @ 5:54 pm

  1455. Copy this e-mail; add: your months at Holabird, MOS, and name; then send it.
    1947
    1948
    1949
    1950
    1951
    1952
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 Jan. thru March, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960
    1961
    1962
    1963
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967
    1968
    1969
    1970
    1971

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 5, 2015 @ 6:48 pm

  1456. 1455.Copy this e-mail; add: your months at Holabird, MOS, and name; then send it.
    1947
    1948
    1949
    1950
    1951
    1952
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 Jan. thru April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960
    1961
    1962
    1963
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967
    1968
    1969
    1970
    1971

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 5, 2015 @ 9:04 pm

  1457. 1947
    1948
    1949
    1950
    1951
    1952
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 Jan. thru April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960
    1961March to June, basic agent course 9666 MOS
    1962
    1963
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 Jun? MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs
    1968
    1969
    1970
    1971

    Comment by Bob Hammel — March 7, 2015 @ 11:35 am

  1458. Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below; add: your months at Holabird, MOS, and name; then submit it.
    1947
    1948
    1949
    1950
    1951
    1952
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 Jan. thru April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960
    1961 March to June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 Jun? MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968
    1969
    1970
    1971

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 7, 2015 @ 12:23 pm

  1459. 1458.Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below; add: your months at Holabird, MOS, and name; then submit it.
    1947
    1948
    1949
    1950
    1951
    1952
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 Jan. thru April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960
    1961 March to June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 Jun? MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 (Dec. 68 – April 69), CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander
    1969
    1970 (May – July), Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander
    1971

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 9, 2015 @ 9:26 am

  1460. Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”.
    1947
    1948
    1949
    1950
    1951
    1952 May-Sept., 1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 Jan.thru April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960
    1961 March to June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 Jun? MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 (Dec. 68 – April 69), CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;;
    1969
    1970 (May – July), Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 10, 2015 @ 1:28 pm

  1461. Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”.
    1947
    1948
    1949
    1950
    1951
    1952 May-Sept., 1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 Jan.thru April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960
    1961 March to June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 Jun? MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 (Dec.– April 69), CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;;
    1969 (Dec. 68 – April), CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov. – May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 Nov. 69 – May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    (May – July), Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 10, 2015 @ 3:48 pm

  1462. Gosh…I found this site strictly by accident. I am writing a book and I couldn’t remember how to spell FT Holabird.
    1461.Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”.
    1947
    1948
    1949
    1950
    1951
    1952 May-Sept., 1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 Jan.thru April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960
    1961 March to June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963 James Fisk,January-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests.
    Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 Jun? MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 (Dec.– April 69), CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;;
    1969 (Dec. 68 – April), CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov. – May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 Nov. 69 – May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    (May – July), Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 10, 2015 @ 3:48 pm

    Comment by Jim Fisk — March 10, 2015 @ 7:25 pm

  1463. 1464.1463.1462.Gosh…I found this site strictly by accident. I am writing a book and I couldn’t remember how to spell FT Holabird. I was sent here from BART (Brooklyn Army Term) in January 63. I worked at the Port, preparing manifests for the ships cargo of tanks, truck, ambulances, etc that we shipped to 3rd world countries, so they could battle their neighbors!? I was discharged from the Army at the Fort. I didn’t have my complete wardrobe, so they made me buy what was missing!
    I was offered a WO rank if I would re-enlist and passed chopper school….I opted out. My history, 1960 Fort Dix; 1960-school FT Harrison Indiana; 1960-62 Europe 7th Army Training Center, 1962-1963 BART Brooklyn; Jan 63-June 63 FTHolabird and Port Authority.

    Comment by Jim Fisk — March 10, 2015 @ 7:39 pm

  1464. Jim,

    Welcome to the site! Good luck with your book. Please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net if you would like a copy of my History of Fort Holabird.

    Best,

    Phil Ostranderi

    Comment by Phil Ostranderji — March 11, 2015 @ 8:00 am

  1465. Does anyone remember the name of the street where the Main Gate was located on Dundalk Ave. Or if it doesn’t exist today, what current day street would be the closest to the old Main Gate? Still looking at Google Earth… – Thank you, Mark Robinson

    Comment by Mark Robinson — March 11, 2015 @ 2:14 pm

  1466. Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”.
    1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948
    1949
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;;
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963 – January-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests.
    Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 – Jun?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Dec.–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;;
    1969 – Dec.68–April, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 11, 2015 @ 3:12 pm

  1467. Mark,

    It is Chandlery Street. It leads directly into the Holabird Industrial Park from Dundalk Avenue. It is the only entrance from Dundalk Ave. The other entrance is off of Holabird Ave.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 11, 2015 @ 9:16 pm

  1468. Feb – May 1962 Basic Special Agent Course

    Comment by Earl Williams — March 12, 2015 @ 1:18 pm

  1469. 1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948
    1949
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;;
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963 – January-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests.
    Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 – Jun?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper
    Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;
    1969 – Dec.68–April, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — March 12, 2015 @ 4:34 pm

  1470. Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”. Please include this heading in your copy and paste.
    1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948
    1949
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;;
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963 – January-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests.
    Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 – Jun?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper;;
    Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;
    1969 – Dec.68–April, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 12, 2015 @ 5:49 pm

  1471. Reminder – For those of you that may be interested and in the area, I will be giving a short presentation on the History of Fort Holabird on Monday, March 16th, at 7:00 p.m. It will be held at the Dundalk Patapsco Neck Historical Society, 4 Center Place, in Dundalk, as part of their monthly meeting. Admission is free and open to the general public.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 12, 2015 @ 9:31 pm

  1472. Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”. Please include this heading in your copy and paste.
    1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948
    1949
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;; May-Sept Agent Trainine, 1301; Sept-Oct, DAME (Safecracker school) Gene Chamberlain
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963 – January-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests.
    Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 – Jun?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper;;
    Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;
    1969 – Dec.68–April, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Gene Chamberlain — March 13, 2015 @ 11:53 am

  1473. 1472.Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”. Please include this heading in your copy and paste.
    1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948
    1949
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;; May-Sept Agent Trainine, 1301; Sept-Oct, DAME (Safecracker school) Gene Chamberlain
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963 – January-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests.
    Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 – Jun?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper; June68-Oct.68, CI Agent Course, 97B40-Ken Robinson
    Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;
    1969 – Dec.68–April, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Ken Robinson — March 13, 2015 @ 5:27 pm

  1474. 1472.Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”. Please include this heading in your copy and paste.
    1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948
    1949
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;; May-Sept Agent Trainine, 1301; Sept-Oct, DAME (Safecracker school) Gene Chamberlain
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963 – January-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests.
    Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964
    1965 – Sept -97D Coodinator then to S2 Troop Command untill June 1968
    1966
    1967 – Jun?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper; June68-Oct.68, CI Agent Course, 97B40-Ken Robinson
    Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;
    1969 – Dec.68–April, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    197

    Comment by Bill Leach — March 13, 2015 @ 10:41 pm

  1475. Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”. Please include this heading in your “copy and paste”.

    1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948 –
    1949 –
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;; May-Sept Agent Training, 1301, Sept-Oct. DAME (Safecracker school), Gene Chamberlain;;
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953 –
    1954 –
    1955 –
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957 –
    1958 –
    1959 –
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course,9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962 –
    1963 – Jan.-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests. Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964 –
    1965 – Sept. -97D Coordinator then to S2 Troop Command until June 1968, Bill Leach;;
    1966 –
    1967 – June?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan.68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper;; June68-Oct.68, CI Agent Course, 97B40-Ken Robinson;;Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;;
    1969 – Dec.68–April69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May70, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971 –

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 14, 2015 @ 1:08 pm

  1476. Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”. Please include this heading in your copy and paste.
    1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948
    1949
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;;
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel; Nov-Feb62, 971.60, Howard Crise, NYFO & 470th INTC Ft. Amador, Panamá CZ
    1962
    1963 – January-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests.
    Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 – Jun?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper;;
    Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;
    1969 – Dec.68–April, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Howard Crise — March 14, 2015 @ 5:41 pm

  1477. @ 10:41 pm

    1475.Copy and paste this chart in the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”. Please include this heading in your “copy and paste”.

    1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948 –
    1949 –
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;; May-Sept Agent Training, 1301, Sept-Oct. DAME (Safecracker school), Gene Chamberlain;;
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953 –
    1954 –
    1955 –
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957 –
    1958 –
    1959 –
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course,9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962 –
    1963 – Jan.-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests. Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964 –
    1965 – Sept. -97D Coordinator then to S2 Troop Command until June 1968, Bill Leach;;
    1966 –
    1967 – June?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan.68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper;; June68-Oct.68, CI Agent Course, 97B40-Ken Robinson;;Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;;
    1969 – Dec.68–April69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May70, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971 –

    Comment by Ken Robinson — March 14, 2015 @ 8:08 pm

  1478. Copy and paste the very last chart in this blog thread into the comment section below. Add: your 1]months at Holabird, 2]MOS, and 3]name. Then click “submit comment”. Please include this introduction in your “copy and paste”.

    TIME AT FT. HOLABIRD
    1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948 –
    1949 –
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;; May-Sept Agent Training, 1301, Sept-Oct. DAME (Safecracker school), Gene Chamberlain;;
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953 –
    1954 –
    1955 –
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957 –
    1958 –
    1959 –
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course,9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;Nov-Feb62, 971.60, Howard Crise, NYFO & 470th INTC Ft. Amador, Panamá CZ;;
    1962 –
    1963 – Jan.-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests. Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964 –
    1965 – Sept. -97D Coordinator then to S2 Troop Command until June 1968, Bill Leach;;
    1966 –
    1967 – June?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan.68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper;; June68-Oct.68, CI Agent Course, 97B40-Ken Robinson;;Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course–97B40, Phil Ostrander;;
    1969 – Dec.68–April69, CI Agent Course–97B40, Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May70, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.- March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971 –

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 14, 2015 @ 9:41 pm

  1479. This chart with the dates is filling up the blog. Must be a better way. I have noticed most of the personnel blogging here seem to be 97b40’s. I was a 97c40, any of you guys go through the case officer class.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — March 15, 2015 @ 2:59 pm

  1480. OK. Let’s quit the chart since there have been no overlaps.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 15, 2015 @ 3:33 pm

  1481. Jim(1479),Bernie(1480).
    Thanks!

    Ed(187)

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 15, 2015 @ 9:19 pm

  1482. Jim,

    Thanks for creating this blog. It has given us old Holabird types a place to keep the MI spirit alive.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 16, 2015 @ 7:33 am

  1483. re: 1479
    Yes, Jim, there are a few 97C40s out here. I think the “C types” had all the fun in training. Who else were out at all hours of the day and night.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — March 21, 2015 @ 6:26 pm

  1484. Gentleman and Men. FYI: A Dr. Hans Seigel, WW2 CIC and profesor at Cleveland State was in yesterday’s obituaries.
    I didn’t know him but thought I would pass it along just in case anyone remembered him. Phil we need a lexicon (if this is indeed the correct term) of mos’s; i.e. 97c40s, etc. Some of us codgers never knew our own. We simply went by what our jobs were.
    This site has a great bunch of guys and gals posting, and intelligent too (is this how they selected for intell?)
    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — March 22, 2015 @ 7:56 am

  1485. Test 1 2 3. I have been having problems posting to this blog

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 23, 2015 @ 7:57 pm

  1486. I see the problem. If you ever see anything in the website space above that you didn’t enter yourself, delete it before you click on “Submit Comment”

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 23, 2015 @ 8:00 pm

  1487. 1948
    1949
    1950
    1951
    1952
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 Jan. thru April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960
    1961 March to June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel;;
    1962
    1963
    1964 sepy 64 to july 67 mi coordinter course-perm party frank stella
    1965
    1966
    1967 Jun? MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968
    1969
    1970
    1971

    Comment by frank stella — March 24, 2015 @ 12:14 am

  1488. Hey guys,
    Please reference 1479 and it’s request.
    Thanks again.
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 24, 2015 @ 8:13 pm

  1489. Jan 66 to 22 April 66 97B40 then Ssseoul ROK and then the army biggest screw up Kalamazoo, MI 60 miles from my home and I did not req7uest it.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — March 25, 2015 @ 6:19 pm

  1490. should have checked my spelling before I hit submit

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — March 25, 2015 @ 6:21 pm

  1491. I was stationed at Ft. Holabird in 1954-55. Part of the address was 8579th DU. Acronym searches have turned up nothing relevant. Many thanks.

    Comment by Charlie Larus — March 26, 2015 @ 8:03 pm

  1492. OOPs. My question is what did the DU stand for. Thanks again.

    Comment by Charlie Larus — March 26, 2015 @ 8:05 pm

  1493. Re 1492, DU stands for Detached Unit.

    Comment by Bill Leach — March 26, 2015 @ 10:34 pm

  1494. Ref 1484

    this is a test

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 27, 2015 @ 10:25 am

  1495. PHIL AND ALL;FYI. I RECENTLY DISCOVERED AN ARTICLE I HAD CUT OUT OF A NEWSPAPER TITLED”INTELLIGENCE CORPS HAS A BIRTHDAY”. THIS WAS IN 1964. I DIDNT KNOW HOW OR IF YOU PREFERRED THAT I DIDNT, ATTACH IT TO MY LETTER. BUT THE HIGHLIGHTS STATED THAT THE ARMY INTEL. CORPS CELRBRATED ITS 47TH ANNIVERSARY THIS YEAR(1964). PART OF THE ARTICLE STATES THAT BETTER LNOWN TO THE PUBLIC AS THE COUNTER-INTELLIGENCE CORPS, IT WAS RENAMED THE INTELLIGENCE CORPS ON DEC.31ST, 1960. BUT THE MOST INTERESTING PART WAS IT SAYING’MORE THAN 25,000 YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS FIELD SINCE AUGUST 13,1917. WHEN PRES.WILSON APPROVED FORMATION OF THE ‘CORPS OF INTELLIGENCE POLICE’ I’M SURE THAT THE MORE THAN 25,000 NUMBER IS A ROUGH ESTIMATE BUT IT DOES GIVE US AN APPROXIMATE FIGURE TO WORK FROM TO MAYBE GET A ROUGH TOTAL OF INTEL PERSONNEL TO THIS DATE. MAYBE. IS INTERSTING THOUGH. BEN BURT EX-SPECIAL AGENT

    Comment by ben burt — March 27, 2015 @ 6:21 pm

  1496. Ben,

    Nice to hear from you. This is excellent information. I had no idea that the Intell corps went back to 1917, the same year that Fort Holabird was built.
    Please feel free to send the article to me at ppstrndr@verizon.net.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 28, 2015 @ 8:37 am

  1497. For all you C.I. Personel, I thought you might be interested in a post I submitted on Oct. 2012. (no.736) Some interesting facts about the 1st woman assigned to the C.I. Special Agent Course at Ft. Holabird.

    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 28, 2015 @ 6:48 pm

  1498. The Maryland General Assembly passed a bill unanimously designating today, March 30th, as Welcome Home Veterans Day. Several other states have done the same.

    This is long overdue for those of you that served there.

    Welcome Home!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 30, 2015 @ 12:24 pm

  1499. Correction to Post 1498, I should have said: Welcome Home Vietnam Veterans Day!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 30, 2015 @ 12:27 pm

  1500. Charlie (re 1491): a quick search shows that “8579th DU” was the administrative designator for the Student Battalion at Fort Holabird’s Intelligence Center.

    Comment by Brian Jackson — March 30, 2015 @ 9:32 pm

  1501. I am reading a book I found titled ARMY SURVEILLANCE IN AMERICA, 1775 – 1980 by Joan M. Johnson. It has a lot of detail about just before and during WWI and the role the Army played in domestic surveillance and investigating unions and workers in plants that was part of the war effort. I am not finished with the book but its clear Army Intelligence go back far and had different names and roles. I recommend the book.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — March 31, 2015 @ 12:03 pm

  1502. Jim (1501),

    I believe the last name is Jensen.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — March 31, 2015 @ 5:50 pm

  1503. Yes it is. The mind is not what it used to be. To my defense it was a bad allergy day here in Hamilton Square, NJ.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — March 31, 2015 @ 6:58 pm

  1504. I accidentally discovered this amazing pile of comments when I googled Fort Holabird just now to get the correct spelling for my husband’s obituary. Please know that your old school has lost former student. Bill Rae was there from July to September, 1951, the hottest part of a hot summer. He never forgot it. For the remainder of his life he told stories of his uniform being wringing wet a half hour after putting it on. He did the biggest part of his two year hitch in San Francisco, living off base, wearing civilian clothes, and doing security checks on people. He passed away Mar. 25 in Spokane, Washington.
    Bonnie Rae

    Comment by Bonnie Rae — April 1, 2015 @ 4:27 pm

  1505. Hi Bonnie Rae,

    Welcome to the site! So sorry to hear of the death of your husband, Bill. May he rest in peace. Please let us know if your have any questions about Fort Holabird or MI.

    Best regards,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 2, 2015 @ 9:16 am

  1506. Re. 1500: Thanks so much, Brian. This is a fascinating site.

    Comment by Charlie Larus — April 2, 2015 @ 8:31 pm

  1507. RE: # 1423 – Bob Quaglia. Bob: I was at Holabird for the Basic Course and the 9666 Course during the Spring and early Summer of 1965. I was then assigned to the 113th, Rgn. 1 and was the SAIC at Fifth Army Field Office from the Fall of 1965 to the later summer of 1966.I was favored to have six outstanding agents and DAC’s working for me. I have often regretted not staying in at least a few years longer.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — April 6, 2015 @ 6:09 pm

  1508. Guys, etc.,

    I am coordinating a luncheon at the the former Fort Holabird Open Mess, currently VVA Post 451, for Friday, April 17th, at noon. Anyone interested please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 7, 2015 @ 12:29 pm

  1509. Dear Fellow Alumni,

    COL James Anderson Roosa died in October, 2006, age 90. He was assigned as Military Attache to Bucharest, Romania in 1967 before retiring. We were classmates in Romanian at DLIWC. His wife, Katie died last year in Columbus, OH. On May Day, 1967 Katie showed up at the US consulate in a brilliant red dress! The Romanian secret police(Securitate)showed up in civies until 9:00 pm with a complete shift change at 9:05. What a crack-up!

    Best regards,
    Tony

    Comment by Tony Wirkus — April 10, 2015 @ 3:24 pm

  1510. Jim Wiles (#1501),

    I just finished the Joan Jensen book. Thanks for the lead. The book really covers MI, warts and all. Not a very flattering picture is it? Any comments anyone?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — April 11, 2015 @ 6:46 am

  1511. Ref. 1508

    So far, there are four of us who have signed up for Friday’s lunch at the former Fort Holabird Officers Open Mess at noon. Since the posting I did about one year ago, the lounge has expanded their menu. They now offer:

    Salads, shrimp, chicken, fish, burgers, hot dogs, freedom fries, and cheese steak subs. If your appetite is piqued, email me your RSVP before Thursday of this week at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 12, 2015 @ 3:58 pm

  1512. Phil: Sorry I’m all the way up in Boston. I am certainly tempted to see some guys who have shared my military experience. Hard to find people who knew about INTC. I was at Ft. Holabird from Jan. 1965 to June taking the Basic Course and the Agent’s Counterintelligence Course.I have a ton of happy recollections of my military experience likely due to the almost uniform high quality of the people that went into INTC. Best regards for a nice get together. Best, Bill Yantis

    Comment by Bill Yantis — April 12, 2015 @ 8:19 pm

  1513. Hi Bill,

    Thank you for your response. I realize that you guys are spread all over CONUS and that the turnout will always be modest. Heck, one of our guys named Wayne even hails from Hawaii. I guess that I am trying to take our interactions to a different level. Over the past 2 years, I have corresponded with many fellows from the east to the west coast. Bill, please free to drop me a note on my personal email address listed above.

    One of the men coming to the lunch met and married a Baltimore gal and relocated here from his original home in California. The person that I replaced on my assignment in Korea, did the same and he was from Indiana.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 13, 2015 @ 9:11 am

  1514. Greetings,

    Today at noon, Tim, Jim, Chris, and I met for lunch at the former Fort Holabird Officer’s Open Mess. Although the menu was very limited and the service was slow, a good time was had by all. Among the four of us, we accounted for service from 1951 – 1971. Our ages ranged from 67 – 85. Two of us met women from Baltimore and decided to resettle iIn the local area. Two of us were former agents, one was an analyst and later an agent, and one was permanent party covering various non-MI mos’. We hope to it again in a reasonable time period and to have more of you somewhat local individuals join us.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 17, 2015 @ 9:45 pm

  1515. RE: comment #1403 by Dave Baker on 12/20/2014
    in your comments you mentioned Mario Fascitelli, there may be many people with that name but not so many within the intell community. I was with Mario in VN, III Corps, ’69-’70…do you have any more info on where he is now? I have good pic of him will send, need your email address…Jerry Smith (getthere2@aol.com)

    Comment by Jerry Smith — April 19, 2015 @ 1:35 pm

  1516. Re: #1403 &#1515 by Dave Baker and Jerry Smith
    I served with Mario at the 526th MI in Okinawa. He was a hard worker and a real fun guy too. We used to play a little poker once a month or so with others at the Naha Field Office. Mario is his middle name-first name is Clement.
    Wayne Akemoto

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — April 21, 2015 @ 3:50 pm

  1517. I guess this question is for Phil Ostrander, who so kindly offered information about Fort Holabird after my post of April 1. I was curious about the patch that the guys circa 1951 would have worn on their uniforms. Was it a sphinx? Or something like that? My husband didn’t have one, or any part of his uniform, but I seem to remember him saying the patch had a sphinx on it and joking about it. I’d love to see what it looked like. I’d really love to have one to show his grandchildren!
    Bonnie

    Comment by Bonnie Rae — April 24, 2015 @ 5:11 pm

  1518. Guys,

    I will be glad to contact those Holabird grads that I know to answer your question. I would like to leave Bonnie’s query open to all of you who post on this site. You will recall that Bonnie lost her husband, Bill, on March 25th. I can think of no better way to honor his memory than by answering her request. Please post what you know.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 24, 2015 @ 6:22 pm

  1519. Ms Rae,

    Re your request to Phil Ostrander on patches worn at Holabird. I was there in the Spring of 1953. Trainees wore the should patch they wore prior to coming to Holabird. As to the “brass” again, both permanent and trainees wore their normal. We did not ware the “US” on both collars, rather what our branch of service was prior to coming to the “Bird.” The philosophy when I was there was not to indicate you were CIC. Could have changed over the years. When we were there, it was required that our uniforms be tailored, similar to the dress style of West Point, i.e., slacks cut at a bias and shirts and the Eisenhower jacket tailored to fit body style. Off post everyone wore their civilian clothes, which was optional.

    Jim Ditt

    Comment by Jim Dittbrenner — April 25, 2015 @ 10:37 am

  1520. Jim,

    Welcome to the website and thank you for answering Bonnie’s question.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 25, 2015 @ 2:06 pm

  1521. Phil,

    I would love to attend your next scheduled lunch. I just need a little more time to plan, as I reside in Germany. However, my son is in DC and I visit him often.

    I hope all of you in Baltimore were unaffected by the recent riots.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 3, 2015 @ 8:51 am

  1522. Phil / Bonnie

    I came straight to the Bird from Basic (A-5-1) at Ft. Ord.
    I don’t believe I had any patch on my fatigues until graduating from the Interrogators course….MOS 96C2L29……and moving on the Ft. Meade before overseas assignment.

    I’m trying to confirm though.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 3, 2015 @ 8:58 am

  1523. Hi Gary,

    It is nice to hear from you again as it has been quite a while. I had no clue that you resided in Germany, but I recall that you did visit your son in D.C. on a somewhat regular basis. Please let me know if you will be flying over sometime toward the end of the summer, as then is when we will planning the next luncheon. I will be glad to accommodate your schedule as best we can.

    As the National Guard is leaving the city today, tensions have eased somewhat. Most of the areas destroyed where in the poorer areas of the east and the west side of town. We are currently in a rebuilding process. Future disruptions could be determined by the convictions or lack thereof concerning the 6 officers who were charged in the death of Freddie Gray. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 3, 2015 @ 4:50 pm

  1524. If anyone is interested in obtaining an online copy of the Harry Holabird Coloring Book, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Bob Hammel recently emailed it to me. It was composed by a member of the 68AI Advanced Officers’ Course.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 7, 2015 @ 4:32 pm

  1525. Just found this site and love it. I was at Holabird in spring and summer of 66…97B Agent. Lots of memories came back reading this blog. Finding old friends I have thought about for many years.

    Comment by Joe Curtis — May 7, 2015 @ 5:54 pm

  1526. Joe,

    Welcome to the site! I, too, was a 97B40 agent, 1968 – 1971. I was welcomed to this site by Gary in April 2013. I hope to see this tradition continue for all of our MI brothers and any interested family members. Joe, please share with us any interesting anecdotes from your time in MI and especially at Holabird.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 8, 2015 @ 9:56 am

  1527. Hi Phil,

    I will be visiting my son in D.C. in late August. If there is a chance to organize a lunch around then, that would be great. If not, I’ll gladly invite you to lunch anyway!

    And welcome to Joe Curtis ! Another graduate of the Bird finds his way to the site. Thank goodness we have it!

    All the best,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 9, 2015 @ 10:44 am

  1528. Phil,

    And very glad things have calmed down in Baltimore!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 9, 2015 @ 10:46 am

  1529. Gary,

    Please send me an email at ppstrndr@verizon.net so we can better coordinate lunch in August.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 9, 2015 @ 12:10 pm

  1530. Hi again. Thanks for the information about what shoulder patch my husband might have worn. I’m wondering now if his references to having a sphinx on his patch might have been later when he was assigned to the counter-intelligence corps at Fort Baker in San Francisco.
    He learned lock-picking at Fort Holobird and remained quite good at it the remainder of his life. They actually gave him a lock-picking set!
    Bonnie

    Comment by Bonnie Rae — May 13, 2015 @ 9:34 am

  1531. RE: 1504, 1517, 1530, and other related posts

    Bonnie Rae’s post asking about the patches etc. from 1951 inspired me to undertake a search through old stuff for anything I might have from my stay at Holabird in 1955. (My first post on this site is 798.) So far the search has been fruitless. The memory bank has been a bit better. As I recall, we wore “U.S.” brass on both lapels. We were told we could wear whatever braid we wanted on our caps so I chose “Unassigned” because it was a neat blue and silver. The patch, if any, eludes me. Since Fort Holabird was CIC there was an effort to avoid notice. I might have worn my Third Armored patch from basic at Fort Knox. I haven’t given up the search.

    I doubt that the sphinx patch was from Fort Baker. Along with four other other guys, I went from Holabird to Presidio of San Francisco, where Sixth Army headquarters was located. Fort Baker is located on the north end of the Golden Gate bridge, Presidio on the south. After reporting in at the 115th CIC detachment, we were assigned to G2 for duty. Everybody in the detachment wore the Sixth Army patch – a circular patch in which there was a six-pointed star with a superimposed letter “A”.

    Today there is a tombstone monument in front of former 6th Army HQ noting its existence from 1943 to 1993. The Presidio, Fort Baker, Fort Barry, and Fort Cronkhite are all included in the Golden Gate National Recreational Area. (Barry and Cronkhite are also in Marin County near Baker.) Crissy Field, on the Presidio is being returned to its natural condition as a swamp. Letterman Army Hospital has been replaced with a series of costly condominiums. Most of the other buildings are still there although some have been re-purposed as museums, etc. The three forts in Marin still have buildings (barracks, mess halls, supply) that were very much in (Army) style in the 40s and 50s.

    Comment by Bob Fox — May 13, 2015 @ 6:48 pm

  1532. Enlisted permanent party wore whatever they came to Holabird with or “US” and no braid. No insignia of any kind. In retrospect one wonders if this led to a lack of esprit ‘d corp?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 14, 2015 @ 5:12 am

  1533. Addendum to 1531

    Found, while looking for something else, the brass I wore during my two years in the Army including the time at Fort Holabird (early 1955): One lapel had the “U.S.” on it. The other had the obverse of the Great Seal of The United States on it. You can see what it looked like by looking at the right side of the back of a $! bill. Wikipedia has a detailed description of both sides of the seal.

    Comment by Bob Fox — May 21, 2015 @ 5:02 pm

  1534. Addendum to 1531

    Found, while looking for something else, the brass I wore during my two years in the Army including the time at Fort Holabird (early 1955): One lapel had the “U.S.” on it. The other had the obverse of the Great Seal of The United States on it. You can see what it looked like by looking at the right side of the back of a $1 bill. Wikipedia has a detailed description of both sides of the seal.

    Misfired on the $1 on the first try. Apology!

    Comment by Bob Fox — May 21, 2015 @ 5:05 pm

  1535. Bob(#’s 1533 + 1534):

    How long at Holabird, rank and job? We overlapped.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 22, 2015 @ 5:14 am

  1536. Re. # 1535 and related
    Was at Holabird in 1954 and 1955. Was one of four photographers in Headquarters Company. We wore orange and white Signal Corps braid and two “U.S” on lapels, or sometimes none at all. The orange braid made us rather visible in formations, sort of like out of step marchers.

    Comment by Charlie Larus — May 22, 2015 @ 1:16 pm

  1537. Greetings,

    I will giving my standard stump speech on the History of Fort Holabird at VVA Post 451 at the former Fort Holabird Officers’ Open Mess on Beckley Street in East Baltimore on Thursday, May 28th at 7:30 p.m. The meeting is open to everyone, however, if you are distance challenged, please email me for an outline at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 23, 2015 @ 6:30 pm

  1538. The suggested braid color on our caps during the 1952-1955 period was green. Still have mine.

    Comment by Bob Mann — May 29, 2015 @ 1:45 pm

  1539. Hello Birdman, etc.,

    Last night, I had the opportunity to speak about the History of Fort
    Holabird to a group of Vietnam Veterans at their monthly meeting. It went well as their were about 50 veterans in attendance. I arrived prior to the start of the meeting and had the chance to look around the grounds of the former Officers’ Open Mess. On the left side of the building, I saw where the pool used to be. There are still turquoise colored tiles scattered on the ground where the base of the changing room was located. Their is a passenger enclosure for a bus stop attached to the back of the building. A sign over the entrance declares, “Last Bus to Vietnam.” There is a full scale replica of a tiger cage stored in the open at the rear of the property. This may have been the one used at the Vietnam Village at Fort Howard. Colgate Creek still flows smoothly under the bridge behind the Open Mess. At that point, it is about 30 yards wide and only a few feet deep.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 29, 2015 @ 2:24 pm

  1540. Thanks for the update Phil !

    It’s sad to think that that is all that’s left of what was once USAINTS, not to mention the historical importance of Fort Holabird to our nation and military.

    Does Colgate Creek still smell nasty, or has that been cleaned up?

    All the best,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 30, 2015 @ 6:35 am

  1541. Gary,

    I was glad to do it. I detected no smell and the waters flowing by appeared to be clear. Not only is our beloved Fort Holabird gone but so is all the heavy industry, along with all of the decent paying union jobs. Individuals who once were working at the steel mill or the auto assembly plant are now either unemployed or flipping burgers. It seems that we traded good wages and pollution of the environment for low wages and a cleaner place to coexist with nature.

    Best regards,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 30, 2015 @ 7:10 am

  1542. Was at Holabird from October 1967 through March 1968.
    Class 68-B-7.
    Served with 7th MID, Camp Casey Korea from March 1968 through May 1969.
    Returned to Holabird in June 1969. Worked FTX from June 1969 through September 1969. Served as SA in USAINTS S2 from September 1969 through July 1970.
    Names I recognize from prior posts-Bill Vogel from 7th MI, John Climie and Rose Nolan from USAINTS S2, and Al Strapelli from FTX.
    Just discovered this website yesterday. Find it very interesting, keep up the good work. Thanks for creating it.

    Comment by Jim Veach — June 4, 2015 @ 9:28 pm

  1543. Jim.

    Welcome to the site! I just missed you. I was at Holabird from 1968 to 1970 with one year break in between at Ft. Bragg, NC. In the summer of 1970, I shipped out to Korea, where I was stationed at Stonestown Campound in Taejon.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 5, 2015 @ 1:23 pm

  1544. Jim Veach, I worked at S2 USAINTS from Oct 1965 to June 1968 and remember Rose Noland very well. She came over from USAINTC to start our own S2 along with myself and Richard Nesbitt. A few weeks later, we finaly got an officer (Cpt Harland Lunsford). We issued and adjudicated security clearances for all permentant party assigned to the school and for all the incomeing students. Before that they were issued by USAINTC.

    Comment by bill leach — June 5, 2015 @ 10:48 pm

  1545. Bill – When I got there the office had 6-7 people working there. CPT Hughes was in charge. A month or two later he left and was replaced by CPT Joe Lane. Rose was still there when I left. There was a lot of talk at that time that everything was going to be moved to Fort H in Arizonia.

    Comment by Jim Veach — June 6, 2015 @ 12:36 am

  1546. Jim, it was 47 years ago today that I left the Army and S2 USAINTS. When I left, there was one PFC, a secretary (Mrs Keursh sp) and Rose. We had just set up the Advanced Officers Course and the S2 officer (Maj Dirska) left at that time to attend the course himself. When we were going strong, we had 1 SSGT, 2 Spec 5s, 1 secretary, Mrs Noland and the S2 officer. They also gave us a few “casuals” to help out. At one time, we were S2/3 and we had a training officer also. It was pretty hectic around 1967 and they were pushing double shifts at the school. We were even working Sundays to get the students processed and cleared for class.

    Comment by bill leach — June 6, 2015 @ 11:59 am

  1547. Bill – We had 3 Spec. 5, 1 SSGT, 1 WO, 1 CPT, 1 SA and Rose. Guess I mis-counted in my previous post. Don’t remember all the names. Two of the Spec. 5’s were Peter Boucher and John Climie. The only thing I remember about the third was that his dad was with the CIA. The WO had about 18 years in and had never been separated from his wife. A few months after I got there he received orders for Vietnam. I think the SSGT’s name might have been Bob and his wife was from the Philippines.

    Comment by Jim Veach — June 6, 2015 @ 1:44 pm

  1548. In response to posting 1517 by Bonnie Rae on April 24, 2015, I don’t know when the sphinx patch was official but you can get one from the Military Intelligence Museum, Ft. Huachuca, AZ. I was at the “Bird” from Oct. 1954 to March 1955, then served as an agent in Kumamoto, Japan until June 1956.

    Comment by Louis Barkemeyer — June 7, 2015 @ 5:33 pm

  1549. Manny #1535

    I was a draftee fresh-out-of-basic private student in the analyst (clerk-typist) class at Fort Holabird from late January to late May of 1955.

    Comment by Bob Fox — June 7, 2015 @ 7:14 pm

  1550. Bob #1535

    Did you remain at Holabird? I got there, as I recall, either in June or July of ’55. Your post shows your training, brief and to the point. No flowery phrases.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — June 8, 2015 @ 5:07 am

  1551. Great Site! I was at USAINTS in early 68, in the 96B20 course, after being drafted and going to basic at Ft. Campbell, KY. It was my first time to the East, and I greatly enjoyed Baltimore, the waterfront, Lexington Market, Fr. McHenry, and taking the bus to DC on weekends. It was really great experience there, and the people, both on and off post were warm and friendly. After Holabird, I went to the 204th MID attached to Prov Corps Vietnam which was later renamed XXIV Corps, from about March, 68 into May 69, in the OB section. We had the two northern provinces, Quang Tri and Thua Thien in our AOR, and again, the MI people I had the good luck to work with were great and did not care whether you were an officer or an em. Of course, there was one 1st Looie, who had an obsession for Gilbert and Sullivan music! Ecccch! — Ex Sp5 Ward Winton

    Comment by Ward Wm. Winton — June 8, 2015 @ 12:01 pm

  1552. I was at the bird during the summer of 1968 for the 96b40 course. This is a great site and has brought back lots of memories. Was it really almost fifty
    years ago? The last week of instruction we were taken by small bus to what was supposed to be part of a Vietnamese village with a grass hut. There was even a young lad dressed in black pajamas. This was part of our interrogation training. We were told several times not to touch anything as the area had just been sprayed with agent orange. Does anyone remember any of this?

    Comment by Wade Morse — June 8, 2015 @ 7:28 pm

  1553. Manny #1550

    From Fort Holabird I went to Presidio of San Francisco, where I remained to the end of my Army days in November, 1956. At the Presidio, several of my buddies and I worked as clerk-typists at Sixth Army G2 rather than at the CIC detachment. I learned while there that many senior officers wanted to be at Presidio, partly because of its great golf course.

    Comment by Bob Fox — June 9, 2015 @ 4:47 pm

  1554. Re: Comment 1552 by Wade Morse. I was at Holabird from Feb. to June 1965 taking the basic INTC Course and the 9666 course. I recall vividly what apparently became your “Vietnamese Village”. When I was there the war was only at a “simmer” so the “village” was generic and could have been virtually any where. I seem to recall that a fellow student tried to pretend he was suffering from shell shock: The ‘villagers” grabbed him, took both his blouse and pants. Think he’d have been stripped had it not been for the intervention of a TAC officer. Do you recall going out to the coastal gun emplacement and conducting intelligence sweeps? Ah Ft. Holabird. I was one damned fortunate guy to have gotten into the branch. Wish I’d have stayed longer. Warm wishes to all my fellow INTCers.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 10, 2015 @ 3:36 pm

  1555. Re:Comment 1554 by Bill Yantis. I do not recall going to the coastal gun emplacement and conducting intelligence sweeps. During 1968 the intelligence school was running two shifts of students through the CI Agent
    course, one starting shortly after first light and the second during the afternoon. I think the school was cranking out of agents to handle the stateside counterintelligence effort for the Vietnam War. It seems my whole class received stateside assignments. Like you, I thank my lucky stars for ending up at the bird. And it just got better as I spent the rest of my time in the army at the Presidio of San Francisco. Best wishes to everyone who had the good fortune to pass through Holabird.
    Wade Morse–June 11, 2015@9:47 pm

    Comment by Wade Morse — June 10, 2015 @ 9:48 pm

  1556. Re:comments 1554 and 1555
    Bill / Wade…..great to see you found this site as so many of us who stumbled upon it. Thanks again to those who established it and keep it going!

    I went through the Interrogators course (96C) in late 1968. I recall “the Village” and in fact, we had our Final Exam there. It entailed a weekend of interrogating Ft. Holabird Cadre and Interrogation instructors. Each had information we were required to get through the interrogation techniques we had learned. Everything was allowed except anything “physical”.

    Where was the Coastal Gun Emplacement?

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 12, 2015 @ 5:10 am

  1557. I believe the old coast artillery emplacement was adjacent to the Perry Point VA Hospital; active now? In collection cross training course in about May 68, students paddled rubber raft from about a mile in the bay to land at lights there. Then we were dispatched on collecton missions in Balto for several days. MOst excitement in the dark of the bay was when someone noted a big cargo ship going very slowly a long way from our raft and said to hang on tight. The wash or waves generated by that slow moving behemoth neary upset us! Fun times, then off to Nam.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — June 13, 2015 @ 1:25 pm

  1558. It is good to be back.

    Comment by John Washington — June 18, 2015 @ 5:09 pm

  1559. please provide the report or post number of the death of Joseph Bandiera (Peter Poor.)

    Comment by John Washington — June 18, 2015 @ 5:23 pm

  1560. My OIC at the Karlsruhe FO in Germany kept our badges under lock and key till we got our ETS papers. He said it was due to the :sensibility of the German people not to show them the badges so all we had were our credentials.

    Comment by John Washington — June 18, 2015 @ 5:46 pm

  1561. Re: Joe Bandiera

    I just looked it up. He died on June 6, 2006 in Scottsdale, AZ.

    Comment by Jim Veach — June 19, 2015 @ 9:55 am

  1562. A question for INTC(CIC)agents in the late 40’s and 50’s assigned to Germany. I was watching an excellent series of National Geographic Channel this afternoon all of which dealt with a range of atrocities committed by the SS during WW II. At one point mention is made of “American Intelligence agents” who went through West Germany seeking information on Germans who were associated with SS units that committed atrocities. I think that must have been CIC people but there was no specific mention of what branch was involved. Can anyone speak to this or who had a relative who might have been involved in this. Thanks to all you outstanding men and women who continue to protect us and our freedom. ill Yantis

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 21, 2015 @ 9:11 pm

  1563. Re: 1562

    Bill,

    Just read an article from 2012 on listverse.com about 15 high-ranking Nazis who should have been tried but weren’t, that claims Kurt Blome, a scientist, was arrested by “CIC Agents from Munich” in late 1945.

    Don’t know if that helps or not.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 26, 2015 @ 11:04 am

  1564. Re. 1562

    “The Axemann Conspiracy” by Scott Selby is probably what you are looking for. I believe someone else on this forum recommended it. I read it and it is quite interesting.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — June 26, 2015 @ 5:20 pm

  1565. Question for John Washington: When were you at Karlsruhe F/O. I was there mid 1954 until mid 1956. Wonder if we might know some whose service in Karlsruhe might have overlapped our times there.

    Comment by Rod Vaughn — June 28, 2015 @ 4:07 pm

  1566. #1510&1501; Jim Wiles, Manny Adler. I also just finished reading the book you read;ARMY SURVEILLANCE IN AMERICA,1775-1980.By Joan Jensen. As Artie Johnson would have said”VERRY INTERESTING!”. If she correctly used ALL the information from her references and which resulted in her concluding opinion; then all the work of the Army Intel and counter-intel performed within the United States;BI’s, complaint,etc investigations were NO.1;illegal and NO.2; all for naught. Kinda hard for me to digest. If one B.I. that I ran resulted in that person being denied access to CRYPTO,TOP SECRET,SECRET, CONFIDENTIAL, or FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY-NEED TO KNOW; due to information gathered which cast doubt on his character,trust,loyalty,integrety, and responsibility, then I have no regrets in performing my assigned duty as an ARMY C.I. SPECIAL AGENT. I found my copy(hard-back) on Amazon.com for $10.00. Read was worth the money. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — June 30, 2015 @ 12:28 pm

  1567. Fellow alumni,

    Just finished reading THE EIL HOURS by David J. Morris wherein he mentions an Arthur Egendorf, intell Vietnam era. CIC? Fort Holabird? Any of you vets from that era remember him? Way after my time and just curious.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 2, 2015 @ 9:46 am

  1568. Sorry,that’s EVIL.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 2, 2015 @ 9:47 am

  1569. Re: 1567

    Manny,

    We had a Herr Eggendorf at JROC in the late 60’s early 70’s, but he definitely was not CIC.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 3, 2015 @ 9:21 am

  1570. Thanks

    Comment by John Washington — July 9, 2015 @ 10:14 pm

  1571. Comment 1561- thanks heaps.

    Comment by John Washington — July 9, 2015 @ 10:17 pm

  1572. comment 1565
    Rod you had come and gone by the time I got there. I was at the Karslruhe f/o from May 1969- September 1971. I don’t know or think my OIC Don Hensley was there then or not – he served many tours in Germany. I can always be found at jwashington@vtc.net

    Comment by John Washington — July 9, 2015 @ 10:21 pm

  1573. I found online somewhere that a Joe Banderia had passed away in Scotsdale AZ but didn’t think he moved here. Cant recall if there was a photo or not. Thanks man.

    Comment by John Washington — July 9, 2015 @ 10:26 pm

  1574. Don’t forget Nato Top secret clearance too. Along with crypto, cosmic , and regular TS.

    Comment by John Washington — July 9, 2015 @ 10:31 pm

  1575. John,

    Joe Bandiera was one of the most challenging actors for agent classes in the 1960’s and early 1970’s at Holabird. I read that when the Bird closed, he made the trip to Huachuca to continue his role there. He retired there and continued living in that area until his death.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 10, 2015 @ 9:41 pm

  1576. Phil ( post 1575) I had heard he remained in Maryland due to the fact the didn’t want to leave his home. Stranger things have happened. He scared the pee out of me. Boy he was good. He would enter the room, take about 3 steps and while we were booing and hissing him, he would look at the class and say ” I hear air escaping from someone’s head. We would roar with laughter then pray to our creator he wouldn’t pick me.

    Comment by John Washington — July 12, 2015 @ 6:10 pm

  1577. I read where two people mentioned being diagnosed with Parkinson’s Disease. My wife was diagnosed with that 3 years ago – so far meds work. I love this site- so many memories. I live in Arizona and have been to Fort Huachuca one time. I suppose sometime there might be a website dedicated to their comments, memories, etc but I can guarantee, it will not be the same closeness and friendship of the “Birds”

    Comment by John Washington — July 12, 2015 @ 6:39 pm

  1578. John,

    I agree about the close friendship aspect concerning those that served at the Bird. Sorry, that you don’t live closer to Baltimore, as I am now starting to plan our second Holabird Luncheon of the year. It will be held in late summer or early fall.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 12, 2015 @ 8:29 pm

  1579. Where are my manners? I don’t think I thanked Jim for comment 1561. my apologies.

    Comment by John Washington — July 13, 2015 @ 5:05 pm

  1580. Phil- thanks so much for sending me the obituary of Joe Banderia. Sure means a lot to many.

    Comment by John Washington — July 13, 2015 @ 5:50 pm

  1581. Attended “the Bird” after basic @ Ft Jackson. About 35 in class for 97Bs. 10 to Vietnam after graduataion. We were assigned to CRD(cover for 704 MI Det, later 135th & 525th MI Gp) Few agent I remember: Edwards,Putnam, Pott, Ritter, Ochs, White, Myers,Morrison. Assigned 116th MI Gp in Wash,DC after Nam; later worked as Agent for ONI.

    Comment by Leon Langston — July 15, 2015 @ 1:38 pm

  1582. Sorry, dates: Basic 8/65; Ft Holabird 11/65 to 2/66; Nam 3/66; DC 3/67 thru 8/68

    Comment by Leon Langston — July 15, 2015 @ 3:26 pm

  1583. Regarding reading material and MI activity in Vietnam, I can highly recommend A Murder In Wartime by Jeff Stein. This is the story of a Vietnamese National who ended up dead in the Bay of Nha Trang (double Agent suspicions). Members of the 588th MI Detachment assigned to 5th Special Forces played a key role(s) in the story. While the 588th was primarily a Counter-Intelligence unit they were also involved in Special Ops (B57) and collection activities. Col. Robert Rheault, then commander of 5th Group, ended up in jail over the incident. I was with the 588th and the names mentioned in the book brought back tons of memories. I highly recommend the book.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — July 19, 2015 @ 1:02 pm

  1584. Warriors,

    If anyone else would like the obituary of
    Joe Bandiera, Actor Emeritus of Fort Holabird and later Fort Huachuca. Please post your email address on this site with your request.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 19, 2015 @ 2:44 pm

  1585. I was inducted at Fort Holabird in 1971. From there on to Fort Dix for BCT. Great story! Thanks for the memories.

    Comment by PH Tinsley Jr — August 4, 2015 @ 7:41 pm

  1586. Just watched a one hour documentary on NTV entitled……
    Berlin, Berlin and It’s Spies.
    It was interesting but too short and covered our Intel. presence in Germany/Berlin from 1945 until 1994. Most of the documentary was about the CIC, the Mission, our Listening
    Post at Teufelsberg and Tempelhof. You can find it by going to NTV.de, but a working knowledge of German would be good.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — August 13, 2015 @ 10:53 am

  1587. ref: 1566. Ben Burt. Did you ever work for the 116th that did BI work at Arlington Hall (ASA)? I worked on ASA clearances and had many visits there in 1954-55. Interesting place

    Comment by Jim Downs — August 13, 2015 @ 1:40 pm

  1588. RE: Post 1583. All over NTV website but can’t find the Berlin report you speak of. Help this old MI guy!

    Comment by Bob Hammel — August 17, 2015 @ 11:52 am

  1589. RE Post 1585

    Bob…….I went to the NTV website just now. At the top of their homepage you’ll find a search bar (Suchen). Put in “Die Spione” and it will take you to a page depicting the Brandenburg Gate. Scroll down to 11th August (11.08) and you’ll find the Spione Documentary.

    Hope that helps.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — August 17, 2015 @ 1:56 pm

  1590. Gary (#1586),

    Got to site but wouldn’t allow access. Do read German.
    What do I do to view?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — August 17, 2015 @ 6:27 pm

  1591. Gary re: 1585. I go to site and description of the 3 part seires on ntV site but nothing is hot. Can’t get any program. Sounds intersting as I spent 4 years in West Berlin and taught a class about it at Ogau. Schade!

    Comment by Bob Hammel — August 19, 2015 @ 1:08 pm

  1592. Manny / Bob

    I’ve gone back to review the documentaries, and you’re right…..I can only find a description, not the actual films. I’ll contact Dokfilm in Berlin and enquire and let you know.

    Bob…..who were you with in West Berlin and when? If you prefer to write my email, it’s……gdmbrd@gmx.de

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — August 20, 2015 @ 9:45 am

  1593. Manny / Bob

    Dokfilm has removed the Berlin series from their archives. I have asked them to reinstate or to forward a link where we can view them. As soon as I hear, I’ll let you know.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — August 23, 2015 @ 6:56 am

  1594. Anyone remember Captain Rothchild who taught the German language program at Holabird in the early 50’s. He was quite a character and a great teacher of the language. Hardest part was learning to interrogate in another language. Between agent school and the language program, I spent almost a year there. I will say that the housing for the agent school was better than the wooden barracks for the language school.
    Bob Mann

    Comment by Bob Mann — August 26, 2015 @ 2:32 pm

  1595. RE: 1587 NO, JIM DOWNS, I NEVER WORKED AT THE 116TH ASA ARLINGTON HALL WHILE IN ARMY. I WAS IN ARMY FROM APRIL 1963 THRU MARCH 1966. IN 1955-56 I WAS A JUNIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL! THANKS FOR INQUIRING ANYWAY. I WAS A DRAFTEE AND EXTENDED MY ACTIVE DUTY REQUIRMENT ELEVEN MONTHS TO ATTEND SPECIAL AGENT TRAINING AT HOLABIRD(WHICH I NOTICE A GOOD MANY OTHERS DID).BEING A DRAFTEE THE ARMY COULD HAVE PLACED ME ANYWHERE THEY WANTED. SOME TIME AFTER BEING IN THE ARMY A WHILE I WAS ABLE TO FIND OUT THAT IF I HAD NOT BEEN APPROACHED TO GO TO INTEL. SCHOOL AND DID SO, I WAS SLATED TO GO TO FORT RUCKER ALABAMA FOR HELICOPTER MAINTENANCE AND MECHANICS SCHOOL.THIS DUE TO INDICATING ON SOME ARMY FORM THAT I HAD ”WRENCHED” ON MOTORCYCLES AS WELL AS CARS PRIOR TO BEING DRAFTED. PROBABLY WOULD HAVE ENDED UP IN ‘NAM AS A FLYING WRENCH-MAN AND POSSIBLY MANNING A SIDE-DOOR MACHINE-GUN ON A HUEY. LOOKING BACK I FEEL THAT MY DECISION TO GO TO THE ‘BIRD WAS A WISE ONE!! DIDNT INTEND FOR THIS COMMENT TO BE SUCH A LENGTHY ONE BUT THERE YOU ARE!! BEN BURT CLASS OF 64B2A.

    Comment by ben burt — August 30, 2015 @ 8:41 pm

  1596. I arrived by buss In November of 64. It was interesting getting from the Greyhound Buss Station to Ft Holabird. I went to 96B school and then was assigned to a small unit of the CDC working on a project called CCIS 70. We finished the project in late November. (I Think) I spent about 4 months in the Records Command and drew a Civilian Cloths assignment along the Lao/Thai border. I had an uncle who was a physicist in the Pentagon and went to visit him often. I visited DC a lot. My buddies and I climbed the steps up the Washington Monument several times. We visited the White House and went a lot of places that were not on the tour including hr tunnel connecting the white house with the capital building. It was good duty. It is a shame that it is no longer there. I drove by the area about 20 years ago and nothing looked the same. The last about a year 3 of us rented an apartment off post. The first week we had a fantastic party and with cops and all. Monday the manager called me in and was about to evict us. I reminded that one of us was not Caucasian and e would take this up with the post commander. We were reprieved with a number of choice words directed at us. I have good memories.
    Willard Logan Fink

    Comment by Willard Fink — September 27, 2015 @ 9:46 pm

  1597. All,

    It has been almost a month and no posts…Scary.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — September 28, 2015 @ 2:26 pm

  1598. Noticed that myself Manny. Then heard the song that still gives me shivers, the Third Man theme. Did not get to Europe until 1961 but a member of my unit, 24th MID, was in Vienna when one of our snooks was kidnapped off the street, in front of his CO, right before a meeting. Find episode in book The Mozart Leaves at Nine. Cool operations of Security Section in occupies Austria. Battery dying………..

    Comment by Bob Hammel — September 28, 2015 @ 6:53 pm

  1599. Bob,

    Ditto the “The Third Man” Theme and film…one of my favorite films. Film noire at its best. Thank goodness only the battery is dying.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — September 29, 2015 @ 5:00 am

  1600. Just finished reading “A murder in wartime” by Jeff Stein and found it very interesting as I was assigned to SF at that time and was in S2. All the names were familiar to me and met a few of them while in S2. I purchased the book from Amizon and read some of the reviews and found one very interesting by a former CI officer named B. Berger. Its worth looking it up and reading.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — September 29, 2015 @ 12:14 pm

  1601. Manny and fellow Holibird Alumni,
    Checking in after taking advantage of my permanent weekend pass. I hope you are all healthy and well and praying for our country.
    Until next time when I can jump in.
    Ed

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — September 29, 2015 @ 9:33 pm

  1602. also have read Murder in Wartime, very good book, I was there 65-67, and we did “terminate with extreme prejudice”

    Comment by Leon Langston — September 29, 2015 @ 11:33 pm

  1603. I just came upon this site. Don’t know if I have much to say about Holabird. I lived in Baltimore when I volunteered to beat the draft, and was inducted in Holabird in July of ’57. I took Basic at Ft. Jackson, S.C., then on to Army Security Agency School in Ft. Devens, Mass. Then got to spend 2 fun-filled years in Frankfurt, Germany. Anybody here from my outfit overseas?

    Comment by Ronald Doss — September 30, 2015 @ 4:56 pm

  1604. Hi Ronald,

    Welcome to the site! I started scheduling luncheons at the former Fort Holabird Open Mess earlier this year. If you still live in the commuting area and are interested in attending, please let me know.

    Phil Ostrander
    S/A Class of August 1970

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 1, 2015 @ 9:21 am

  1605. Planning a Vet’s Reunion in Washington DC in Nov: some of our 68-R-13, Ft Holabird Clasmates from April to July 1968. We left as 96B & 96C, all but one-of-64 going to VIETNAM. Expect only 8-10 will make the Reunion this time. (Health & dwindling interest). We were “kickin”round an idea of Thursday Morning 12NOV15 last trip back to THE BIRD. From GOOGLE & other satellite sites, doesn’t appear to be enough left in-tact to even recognize. Far less, than my own last visit 7/91. Only The GHOSTS OF OUR YOUTH are still there. Even the Holabird Inn, out the Front Gate, has changed names & it’s front entrance. I personally landed ‘back’ from 9/69 until I got out, 1/71. 20 months of MY YOUTH & some pretty interesting MEMORIES have FLOATED AWAY forever, in the polluted Colgate Creek. We May re-think any such Nov visit.

    Comment by Ron Rowe — October 2, 2015 @ 12:04 am

  1606. I just stumbled on your website after a fit of nostalgia and going to Google Earth to locate Ft Holabird. I’ve read all the posts from you spooks hoping to find some from lost friends.
    I came to Holabird in fall of 1969 from Ft Gordon and was assigned as a permanent party MP working out of the Provost Marshall’s Office. Not much police work done as we were mostly gate guards with a lot of traffic directing done and a lot of saluting to incoming brass. We were also the guys who shot off the cannon in the morning, usually spraying the parade ground with flaming sub sandwich wrappers stuffed in the barrel the night before, and raised the flag to the asthmatic reveille recording played through the war surplus speakers of headquarters company. Once in a while we would toss a golf ball down the barrel to see if we could break one of the panes of the already mostly broken windows of the big warehouse across the creek.
    It was a pretty relaxed duty station although not as much for permanent party, as I’ve read here, for the MI students. MP Sergeant Beaton made even the minuscule challenging.
    I met some great friends, Pfc Jim Baird and Pfc Stewart, and also discovered the Block, downtown Baltimore. An eye opening experience.
    I was only there for about five moths when, on the same day, I got orders for Nam and Germany at the same time. The personnel officer asked me to chose, (no kidding), I can only tell you that Berlin was just fine.
    I’m very sorry to hear that Ft Holabird is now gone but to me it will always be a fond memory.
    Thank you so much for this website that allows all of us who served there to reconnect with those good old memories.

    Comment by Jeff McFarlane — October 2, 2015 @ 1:45 am

  1607. Yesterday, I read an article in the Dundalk Eagle about an individual named Val S. Casel. He was are retired U. S. Army Staff Sergeant who had served in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. In the news column, he had announced his intentions to bid on the former Fort Holabird site. He wished to restore the brick and mortar buildings for use by veterans and the community. Alas, he did not prevail as Baltimore City won with their bid and leveled 99% of the buildings in order to create an industrial park. Among the buildings lost were the classroom building, the MI headquarters building, the chapel, the movie theatre, the library, the photo lab, the main barracks building, and all of the base housing units. The Officers’ Open Mess building remains and is currently used by the VVA.

    Staff Sgt. Casel passed away in 2006. May he rest in peace.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 2, 2015 @ 9:54 am

  1608. Re: 1602

    Hi Ronald. Which outfit were you with in Frankfurt?

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — October 3, 2015 @ 6:53 am

  1609. The last 15 years of my enlistment were as a spook attached to an ASA unit outside Ankara, Turkey, in ’63-4.

    I just got back from an ASA/Turkey reunion in Charleston, SC, (we just got out of Dodge in time to miss C’ton’s flooding) and it was good to see Jim Orr, our clerk typist, the unit’s (TUSLOG Det 27) “Monterey Mary” Turk linguist, Dave Kern, and his counterpart, JUSSMAT’s Atakan Sobay.

    Atakan came to the States in early ’80s, became a citizen, got his pilot’s PPSEL (private pilot, single engine, land) ticket and is happily retired at a fly-in community south of Houston! And he’s as stark raving conservative as I am! Hooah!

    Comment by Bill Schulz — October 6, 2015 @ 4:59 pm

  1610. Dang! That should have read “months,” not “years.”

    Comment by Bill Schulz — October 6, 2015 @ 5:01 pm

  1611. 1947 – Jan.-March, Admin. crs[1405],Don bridges;;
    1948
    1949
    1950 – May-Aug., Agent crs [1301], Don Bridges;;
    1951 – Jan.-Feb., Micro-film crs, Don Bridges;;
    1952 – Jan.-March, Photo crs, Don Bridges;;May-Sept.,1301, Stan Solin;;
    1953
    1954
    1955
    1956 – Jan.-April, 971.70, Bernie Thielen;;
    1957
    1958
    1959
    1960 – Jan.-Jan.61, G2 Agent, Don Bridges;;
    1961 – March-June, basic agent course 9666 MOS, Bob Hammel; Nov-Feb62, 971.60, Howard Crise, NYFO & 470th INTC Ft. Amador, Panamá CZ; Dec-Apr 62, 971.60, Bill Schulz
    1962
    1963 – January-June, Port- shipping foreign aid-tanks, truck, ambulances to third world countries. Transferred here from BART to prepare ships manifests.
    Lived in a row house in Dundalk, terrible place, cockroaches!, James Fisk;;
    1964
    1965
    1966
    1967 – Jun?, MIOAC 68A1 advanced course-9668 MOS short crs, Bob Hammel;;
    1968 – Jan68-May68, 97B40, CI Agent Course, Gordon Cooper;;
    Dec.68–April 69, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;
    1969 – Dec.68–April, CI Agent Course – 97B40 – Phil Ostrander;; Nov.–May 70,97B40, Rick Washburn;;
    1970 – Nov.69–May, 97B40, Rick Washburn;; Jan.-March, Adjudication crs, Don Bridges;;May–July, Intelligence Photography Course – Phil Ostrander;;
    1971

    Comment by Bill Schulz — October 6, 2015 @ 6:27 pm

  1612. Go to the Main Gate on Google maps and select the Earth view, then “tilt” and you’ll see that there ain’ much o’ the Bird left… if anything. My recollection of the place is really next to zip living off site with a car and wife. (regular “married perks” but no fun!)

    The place we rented was second floor at 7044 Eastern Ave and our landlord was a kind older couple who liked GIs… his nickname was “Sarge.” Think that’s any clue?

    Comment by Bill Schulz — October 6, 2015 @ 8:02 pm

  1613. Just noticed in 1608 above that a Rick Washburn was a Birdman in ’70. Any chance you’re from Cornwall, Rick?

    Comment by Bill Schulz — October 6, 2015 @ 8:04 pm

  1614. Anyone from the 113th out there?

    Comment by Bill Yantis — October 19, 2015 @ 1:17 pm

  1615. Anyone assigned to the 112th MI GP HQ, Ft Sam Houston,TX during the mid 60s. I visited the area earlier this year and could not find the old buildings, or did not recognize them.

    Comment by Don Clifton — October 19, 2015 @ 3:27 pm

  1616. In today’s edition of the Dundalk Eagle, I read about a letter to the editor from a Dale L. Grimes Sr., retired US Navy CPO. He grew up next to Ft. Howard, a base several miles from Fort Holabird, on the Chesapeake Bay. He recalls as a boy of around 7 Or 8 years of age seeing truckloads of WWII prisoners being shipped in and out of Fort Howard from Holabird on a daily basis. They were Germans, Italians, and Japanese performing work details including tearing down old buildings inside the fence. He also remembers carrying buckets bucket of drinking water to them. He would pass the cups of water to them through the fence. Finally, he recalls offering the Nazi salute as their trucks deported for the day to see if he could get a reaction from the prisoners.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 6, 2015 @ 2:09 pm

  1617. Went on a HONOR FLIGHT two weeks back and who was sitting next to me on the plane but a CIC alumnus. He trained at Holabird in 1950 and then was stationed in Baltimore in that cities field office. Sorry but I didn’t get his name for those of you from that era but he lives in the greater Cleveland area. What are the chances of two Holabird folks sitting on the same flight? They rarely get MI folks signing up.

    And a Veteran’s Day thanks to all of us.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — November 11, 2015 @ 6:02 am

  1618. Thanks to Manny and all of you guys and gals who served and continue to serve our country!

    Happy Veterans Day!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2015 @ 8:38 am

  1619. Re: 1607

    Hi Don. I was assigned to the 112th in 69 and 70 and after
    reading your post I looked at Google Maps to see if I would
    recognize any of it. If I had to guess I would look at the
    Building on New Braunfels by the corner of Hood St.
    Where the enlisted barracks was I don’t know but it wasn’t far from the 112th HQ bldg. The only name I remember from when I was there was a CWO named Metarko. I was at the HQ for about 6 months and then went to the San Antonio Field Office. Colonel Holler and Major Moore were in charge. Both fine men. Got a Direct Commission out of the Field Office and went to the 525 in Bien Hoa (July 70 to July 71). Then the 108th in NY.

    Happy Veterans Day to all!!!

    Comment by Jerry McCarty — November 11, 2015 @ 3:06 pm

  1620. Love the site. Been following it for years and finally decided to throw my hat into the ring. Attended Spook (97B) training at the Bird from Sept. 64 to Feb. 65, assigned HQ at 111th INTC at Ft. Mac in Atlanta, TDY back to the Bird for a few months, then back to Ft. Mac for about 6 months, then assigned as SAIC of the Chattanooga TN residence office until my discharge in June 67. In reviewing the various comments, it appears that I have not crossed paths with anyone. Had several TDY assignments – Selma-Montgomery march; attending KKK Klan rallies; two penetrations of ARADCOM sites (got caught the first time, successful the second time). FTX at Ft. Howard as guinea pigs for SFs going through the interrogators course; courier duty from Ft. Mac to a Ranger jungle training school at Eglin AFT (met Maj. Charlie Beckwith); etc. If any of this rings a bell, maybe we crossed paths at some time. Let me know.

    Comment by John Reed — November 12, 2015 @ 10:10 pm

  1621. Did any of you see 60 minutes a week ago about how they do security clearances checks. It is a joke. No LCR or DCR just NAC. They need to go back to the way they were done in the 60’s and maybe we would not have the leaks that we presently have.

    Jeff Terrell

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — November 18, 2015 @ 4:29 pm

  1622. Jeff,

    You are so right. The vetting process is totally inadequate. In addition to the proven techniques you mentioned, there are so many more that could be used for very little cost.

    We also need to properly vet the incoming Syrian refugees. After they are settled, we must assist them in becoming acculturated into our society so that they and their heirs do not become threats to our society in the future.

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 18, 2015 @ 8:29 pm

  1623. Jeff,
    LCR, DCR, NAC, HUH!

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — November 19, 2015 @ 6:02 am

  1624. Listed Character References, Developed Character References, National Agency Checks

    Comment by Leon Langston — November 19, 2015 @ 12:12 pm

  1625. Saw the polygraph used well on people and in conditions which could speed initial screening.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — November 19, 2015 @ 1:33 pm

  1626. DCRs are just as the name implies. LCRs are a slam dunk for those seeking a security clearance. One would simply list the people they know and trust, whereas DCRs are secured by the SA asking the LCRs who else would know the applicant well enough to recommend them for a position of trust and responsibility with the U.S. DCRs were much better sources for a balance of pro and con information about the applicant.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 19, 2015 @ 2:15 pm

  1627. Thanks all.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — November 20, 2015 @ 5:58 am

  1628. Re the thread starting at 1611

    Back in 1955-56 when I was at Fort Holabird (1955) and at Presidio of San Francisco (1955-56), we had three kinds (maybe 2 1/2) of clearance checks: Full Background Investigations (BI), which was the DCR equivalent and NAC and NACCO. The latter two were National Agency Checks, The NACCO was for contractors and I had the impression was an NAC light.
    The BI was run on the suspected bad guys as well as the good guys who were to get higher clearance levels. All the students at the school had the full Bi treatment. That included the clerk-typists like me.

    Comment by Bob Fox — November 20, 2015 @ 6:17 pm

  1629. During 1954-1955 while serving at Region 1, 66th CIC, Wallace Barracks, I was assigned to work on the Refugee Relief Act of 1953 to help break the case load of displaced persons who wanted to come to the US. With the help of a German National legman which I was allowed to hire, we visited numerous displaced persons’ installations to interview occupants who might have known the applicant. Agency checks were of little value although we sought as much information as possible through this source, but with these displaced persons having been uprooted from their homes either during the war or after, it was hard to glean much information. DCR was the preferred method of finding out anything derogatory as well as criminal records. Our reports were then sent on to be reviewed and hopefully we did not allow too many undesirables into our country. I agree that a more stringent vetting can be done and should be done — all in a timely fashion.

    Comment by Bob Mann — November 21, 2015 @ 11:49 am

  1630. “Bobs”,

    Educational stuff, really.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — November 22, 2015 @ 8:33 am

  1631. LACs, NACs, and BIs. Local Agency Checks (local police and MPs) required for “Confidential” level clearances; National Agency Checks (FBI, INS, CIA, Secret Service & LACs) required for “Secret” level clearances; and BIs (LACs, NACs, and personal interviews and records checks [school, college, employment, etc.]) required for “Top Secret” level clearances. From an investigative prospective, there was no difference between “Top Secret” and “Top Secret Crypto” – In fact, the investigating agent would never know the purpose of the BI.
    LIDMAC is the acronym for Loyalty, Integrity, Discretion, Morals, And Character. LIDMAC was used as a reminder to investigating agents of topics to cover when interviewing references, especially Developed References (DRs), aka “Leads.”
    Manny – could you check to see what happened to my last posting about 10 days ago. It was up for about 3 days and then disappeared.
    Thanks.

    Comment by John Reed — November 22, 2015 @ 1:46 pm

  1632. John,

    No idea. Perhaps Jim might know?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — December 5, 2015 @ 4:55 pm

  1633. John,

    As Manny stated, Jim Flynn is the person to whom you want to direct your questions. He monitors this site on a regular basis or if you wish, you can email him directly. Go to the beginning of this site and press the “email me” button in the left column.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 5, 2015 @ 5:42 pm

  1634. Thanks Manny and Phil – My missing message did reappear as #1618. So, everything’s cool. I am still looking for anyone who served with the 111th INTC / 111th MI in the 1960’s.

    Comment by John Reed — December 7, 2015 @ 7:37 pm

  1635. In case anyone is interested; from a cousin still in that area.

    ‘Detail #1 Map of Old Dundalk, 1928’

    ‘Detail #2 Map of Old Dundalk, 1928’

    ‘Photo: Detail #4 – Section of Original Map’

    Gene Golden added photos to December 6, 2015 in I Grew Up in Dundalk, MD.
    December 6 at 9:17am ·

    I finally finished this project, and it has certainly been a labor of love… and you can share in this!
    Available just in time for Christmas – but a great gift anytime, you can own, or give, this – MAP of OLD DUNDALK

    This map is the same size as the Original Dundalk Map, produced for the Dundalk Company, by the Roland Park Company – approximately 16″ x 19″, and will include sufficient borders for matting and framing (final dimensions, approx 18″ x 21″).

    I think this is the PERFECT Gift for anyone who either lived in Old Dundalk, and/or for their friends and relatives who live there still.
    Even if you have no memories of the area, it is still a cool piece of local Dundalk history.

    History of this particular map:
    My Grandfather, Eugene Morrone (Poppa) had kept this map in his workroom for decades. As you can see from the photo of the original map (#4), although he had pasted it to a board, it was a little bit worse for the wear.
    Between the rips, the age-staining, and the splashes of tinted turpentine, it survived relatively intact smile emoticon

    Of course, the original map had “character”, but it was not quite ready for prime-time.
    It even had notes on the property that he was buying at 3001 Dunran Road! I believe it was bought and built upon in the early 1950’s. This map was evidently presented from a realtor to indicate the site availability.
    I painstakingly scanned, refurbished and editted this map to eke it into this reproduction.
    I have left a good bit of aging on the map, since I would have gone insane trying to remove all of it! wink emoticon

    As shown, and priced at only $23.95* – the map will be printed onto thin satin-finish paper, suitable for mounting or matting.
    * Price includes shipping/packaging/handling within continental U.S.

    We can only assume and hope that the Postal Service will be proificient, so we believe that if you order by December 18, it should conceivably arrive by Christmas… but that’s beyond our control.
    So… Order EARLY! grin emoticon

    Optional:
    Since we print this map at our shop, we can produce it to fit your any need.
    As a single sheet of paper, we can print up to
    40″ x 48″
    Banner Material, up to approx – 48″ x 60″
    Wallpaper Covering – your wall height” x width of map” !!! (about 8′ x 10′ – in 36″ rolls, for those of you adventurous enough)
    Contact us about quantity discounts or optional sizes and materials available – genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
    717-334-0200

    Comment by Bob Hammel — December 10, 2015 @ 1:22 pm

  1636. I urge everyone to view the Youtube video
    for the “Guinness Empty Chair commercial.
    (Google Youtube Guinness Empty Chair)
    It wasn’t that way in the 60’s and 70’s
    but thankfully, today is different.

    Comment by Jerry McCarty — December 17, 2015 @ 2:47 pm

  1637. I came to Holabird from Fort Carson in Novermber 1957 as part of class 56-B-10. Newly married I lived offpost at 9 Wells Avenue, Dundalk-a converted garage. Sgt Bernard had charge of our class-mostly college graduates. I spent a short time at the Records Facility and then sent to 6th Army at the Presidio, San Francisco, and then sent to 115th CIC Detachment at 2500 Wilshire, Los Angeles where I was assigned to the Complaint Section, conducting records checks, interviews with subject’s contacts and family and finally the subject himself. I did not war a uniform until I was dischrged in 1957. I then became an Assistant US Attorney in Los Angeles, and went on to practice law in Los Angeles. CIC was a great way to spend thime in the Army.

    Comment by Herb Weiser — December 21, 2015 @ 4:20 pm

  1638. Dear fellow Ft. Holabird Alumni,
    MERRY CHRISTMAS! May all of you enjoy good health and prosperiy for the new year.
    Ed(187)

    Comment by Edward hotchkiss — December 24, 2015 @ 2:44 pm

  1639. Guys and Gals,

    This is especially for you newbies to this site. Don’ t forget to look up, “Fort Holabird YouTube” to see a great very short 35mm reel on the way the post was in the 1960’s. Also type in “Fort Holabird – Dow”, to see the Officers’ Guide to the old fort. On these pages you will see everything that a new officer or EM would need to know about being stationed there. It also offers some excellent pictures of the Bird.

    Let us here from you in the new year.

    Merry Christmas and Happy New ?Year!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 24, 2015 @ 10:42 pm

  1640. Happy Holidays to all Ft. Holabird alumni and permanent party.
    A very special group indeed!

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 26, 2015 @ 8:33 am

  1641. A happy, healthy and secure New Year to one and all.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — December 31, 2015 @ 2:31 pm

  1642. Happy New Year to all the remaining “Birdmen of Balto.”

    Comment by Jim Wiles — January 1, 2016 @ 3:36 pm

  1643. Began Basic Training-Ft. Dix, N.J. August 1, 1961
    USAINTS- Ft. Holabird, Md. 1961
    1st MI Bn (ARS)-Ft. Bragg, N.C. 1962
    2nd MI Bn (ARS)-Kaiserslautern, W. Germany 1962
    172 MI Det – Nurnberg, W. Germany 1963
    503 MI Det – Frankfurt,W. Germany 1963
    66 INTC GP – W. Germany 1964
    Vientiane, Laos 1965
    Udorn, Thailand 1965
    SAC, Offutt AFB, NE 1966 MACV Saigon, RVN 1967-68

    Comment by Philip Watts — January 6, 2016 @ 7:21 pm

  1644. I was following the comments on BI and other investigation remarks of the past couple months and wonder how many of you were involved in Bring Up Investigations. I was only involved once while in the 115th MIG while at the Ft MacArthur Field Office. I’ll keep reading and still enjoy this site very much.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — January 6, 2016 @ 11:40 pm

  1645. Gordon,

    So what is a “bring up investigation”?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 10, 2016 @ 9:31 am

  1646. At USAINTS (the school) for students and permanent party personnel,
    if a top secret security clearance certificate(DA 873)was more than 5 years old, we would do a “limited Background Investigation” and validate or reissue a new 873. I forget which AR required it. Maybe AR 604-5.
    This was 1965-68.
    Maybe this is a “bring up investigation”.

    Comment by bill117 — January 10, 2016 @ 11:59 pm

  1647. BU/BI was a Bring Up BI – didn’t have to go back to when you crawled out of a cave, just since the previous BI. Easy…

    I was at Holabird from ~Sep 67-28 Feb 68. All 20 something of us in 68-B-7 not TDY were on orders for VN until the NK’s seized the Pueblo. Everyone’s VN orders were cancelled & 17 guys went to Korea. In typical Army logic, I was from Louisiana & was sent to New Orleans, Reg V, 112th MI Gp. A friend from Georgia was sent to Atlanta. Same same with guys from Florida & West Virginia. I was a rated French linquist, and spent the rest of my time (Mar 68-Dec 70) in New Orleans. A clerical error omitted the ‘LFr’ off the end of my MOS (97B40Lfr) on the front of my 201 file & I was over looked every week in the search for French linguists to send to VN. Warrant Officer I met at Bragg in 73 told me… Lot of water under the bridges.

    Comment by George Jacoby — January 11, 2016 @ 7:23 pm

  1648. #1542 – Jim Veach! I was in 68-B-7 and I am trying to resuscitate the archived neurons from then – I recognize your name, and am trying hard to associate it with a face. Remembering other guys: Bob Pauley, Alex Kolp – I have orders somewhere I will try to dig out & post it or the names. Wow! Just found this site today & have been reading for an hour 😉 Happy new year!

    Comment by George Jacoby — January 11, 2016 @ 8:02 pm

  1649. As I recall, a “bring up” was a supplemental investigation, bringing old information up to date. MI/INTC did not issue TS’s, MI/INTC did the BI and made recommendations to the unit commander who had the power to issue TS’s. One example of a “bring up” – if a soldier with a TS was a transferred to another unit, the commander of the new unit might want everything updated so that the soldier’s TS could continue in effect. Therefore, a “bring up” was merely an “updating.”
    Have a Happy and HEALTHY New Year ‘Bird Alumn.
    John

    Comment by John Reed — January 12, 2016 @ 3:18 am

  1650. John,

    Thanks.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 12, 2016 @ 9:46 am

  1651. Local News!

    The Dundalk VFW is closing after 70 years, as reported in the Dundalk Eagle. This is the location just outside of the former south entrance to Fort Holabird on Pine Avenue. It appears that budget problems and declining membership led to its demise. Over the years it seems to have become more of a gin mill that an organization interested in supporting the local area with charitable activities.

    On a brighter note, the Friends of Fort Howard, an organization dedicated to preserving what remains of a nearby former army post, seems to be on the rise. The above organization is making strides in the preservation of the gun batteries that once guarded the port of Baltimore from impending naval assault. It was once known as the “Bulldog at Baltimore’s Gate”.

    Anyone interested in forming a Friends of Fort Holabird group? Whether or not, keep this blog alive.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 21, 2016 @ 5:42 pm

  1652. I have an interest in the formation of the group. I was a student there in the 97B class from November 23, 1963 until April 1964. count me in. I currently live in Villa Rica, Ga 65 miles west of Atlanta.

    Comment by james h. bone — January 21, 2016 @ 7:08 pm

  1653. I will be a friend of Ft Holabird.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — January 23, 2016 @ 12:55 pm

  1654. Time at Fort Holabird. February 1968-May 1968. Course Image Interpreter, 96D20. Then off to Nam. Assigned to the 518th MI Detachment,Third Brigade 82nd ABD.Never saw a light table as 82nd didn’t have any photos to interpret. Instead I spent ten months flying as an aerial observer in the 0-1 Birddog. Almost the same as looking at photos, except people kept shooting at me.
    But I did get an extra $65 a month as flight pay. It was an adventure.

    Comment by Peter Henderson — January 23, 2016 @ 1:38 pm

  1655. Got to Holabird in August (?) 1968 in 97B40 morning class. Lived across the street in an apartment with wife and new baby. Went to Evanston Field Office of 113th MI Group and stayed there until separation in Feb 1971. Remember MAJ Stryker and CPT Dave Bradley in Evanston. Remember going to NYC in Oct 1970 for United Nations 25th Anniversary and testifying at the pentagon at a DoD hearing shortly before seperation. It is all kind of a blur now, but it was all a good experience.

    Comment by Don Knapp — January 23, 2016 @ 9:58 pm

  1656. Hi Bob,

    I tried sending you an email at the address you and I had used in the past, but was not successful. Please share your new email address with me so we can communicate via our personal emails. I would like to know your thoughts about what you would like to see in the Friends of Fort Holabird. Write me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 23, 2016 @ 11:08 pm

  1657. Would love to hear from anyone else in those places at those times. dknapps@dpc.net

    Comment by Don Knapp — January 24, 2016 @ 6:58 pm

  1658. Re. Post 1648. I remember your name George. I came across this site a few months ago and read every post. Quite a few from 68-B-7 went to Korea. Franklin Spencer and I went to the 7th MI Detachment and Jim Spitz was in Seoul for a few months and then got transferred to the 2nd MI Detachment. Spitz and I went back to Holabird and were with FTX after Korea. Somewhere in my basement I think I still have the 68-B-7 class list. It’s good to see your name on here George – you have a good year too.

    Comment by Jim Veach — January 28, 2016 @ 11:46 am

  1659. ref 1614 spent aug 69 to dec 70 with 113th Kansas city field office most of my work was for the region 111 commander ltc killian (sp) on special ops. followed him to korea and g-2 special ops again.

    Comment by jim campbell — February 4, 2016 @ 11:35 pm

  1660. Manny, sorry I do not check this site enough. I just got caught up now and read the other imputs on “bring up” investigations and all seem correct at the time. Realizing that so many specifics have changed over the decades removed from our service times, I just realize how different our work was in the days prior to the Senator Church hearings towards the end of the Vietnam war. I doubt many of us knew at our times in service during the sixties would be impossibe for modern ci agents to realize how different we operated than they do today. About twelve year ago, I was asked to talk to a group of agents in training at the Arizona site they train at today. They had no idea we working in civilian cloths, performing work in community settings in the conus areas, or that our schooling at Holabird was so different. I found my visit to Ft Huachuca sad in that our field work after Holabird was so different than those trained today. Everything changes!

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 6, 2016 @ 1:57 am

  1661. Note to John Reed msg 1634. Hey John. Served with the 111th early 60’s. Pardon the take I took on the personnel then. Oh well.. Beer and steaks always available in Pearland, TX Dave Mitchell
    Dave1an2an@aol.com

    Comment by David B Mitchell — February 6, 2016 @ 10:34 pm

  1662. Gordon:
    I too visited Huachuca a few years back and also found it sad. Terrible security and sloppiness, hard to say what exactly was wrong but I will leave to the “postees” to conjecture the whys.
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — February 7, 2016 @ 9:32 am

  1663. Re message 1629 to person with Munich Ger Refugee Program – 1955-57 I worked at Region IV Munich Field Office as DAC Secretary, a great 2 1/2 years in Germany. A friend Angela Lynch, about age 21 at the time and the daughter of Robert Lynch a DAC head of Civilian Personnel at McGraw Kaserne, in Munich, was a friend of mine and we lost touch – my maiden name was Rita Schaub and her maiden name was Angela Lynch; I image she married eventually. The family may have lived in California earliere. She had a younger sister still in high school in Munich, who wanted to me a medical doctor. I’ve lived in Seattle since 1958 upon marriage, grew up in Baltimore. Would love to contact Angela should you know of her whereabouts. Thanks so much.

    Comment by Rita Schaub Range — February 9, 2016 @ 9:39 pm

  1664. sent a message about a week ago and have not seen it on the message board. What did I do wrong. Old SFC from Baltimore with poor eyesight. pls advise. Dave

    Comment by Dave Mitchell — February 14, 2016 @ 8:15 pm

  1665. I have not had much to hear from you guys and gals. It is strange I arrived at the “bird” on Nov 22, 1963. I know I was not the only one getting off the bus that day, nor was I the only one in those classes. I had thought I would have heard from someone else. surely I was not that forgettable, an good ole boy from Georgia. my e-mail is jhbone@att.net and would love to be able to hear more. look forward to getting a rspv. thanks. j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — February 19, 2016 @ 10:42 pm

  1666. Rita and James,

    Please don’t be discouraged. I attended classes twice at Holabird in 1969, agent class, and 1970, photo. intell. class and have yet to find anyone I served with on this site.

    In spite of this, I still log in on a regular basis.

    Best,

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 20, 2016 @ 2:36 pm

  1667. thanks for the words of support.

    Comment by james h. bone — February 20, 2016 @ 3:25 pm

  1668. Jim and Phil,

    Ditto. Nary a post but “hope is the last muse to leave the grave”(Dante).

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — February 20, 2016 @ 5:26 pm

  1669. Manny et al,

    From Thomas Gray’s Archive, “The Epitaph”

    Large was his bounty, and his soul sincere,
    Heaven did a recompense as largely send:
    He gave to Misery all he had, a tear,
    He gained from Heaven (’twas all he wished) a friend.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 20, 2016 @ 9:44 pm

  1670. For those who seem discouraged about not contacting people they served with in INTC I would say persist. It took me a long time to find this great website. In my case only since I’ve retired have I found myself looking back at Holabird in the mid-60’s when I was there so maybe others are in my same or similar situation. I did have an agent I worked with at the Fifth Army FO in Chicago, Region 1, 113th INTC. We had a good exchange. One can’t go wrong my checking in from time to time. I can’t locate all of the long string of previous e-mails: Has it been cut down?

    Comment by Bill Yantis — February 23, 2016 @ 5:43 pm

  1671. Regarding post #20 there are approximately 1,650 comments/emails missing from the website which is the nostalgic purpose of the website??

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — February 23, 2016 @ 7:11 pm

  1672. RE: YES, IT SEEMS STRANGE THAT IT BEING QUITE THE PROBLEM OF ANYONE ON THIS SITE NOT KNOWING OR HEARING OF INTC AGENTS THAT YOU HAVE WORKED WITH OR KNOWN. WHEN I WS ASSIGNED TO THE DES MOINES F.O. IN JULY 1965 THE O.I.C. WAS LT. JOE MARVEL. ANY ONE KNOW HIM? I ALWAYS WANTED TO BE AROUND WHEN AND IF HE MADE ”CAPTAIN. ALSO THERE WAS AN AGENT NAMED MERRILL D. WHERRY WHO WAS , I BELIEVE, A SGT, FIRST CLASS OR MSGT. HIS WIFE WAS JAPANESE. ANOTHER SGT AGENT WAS A RON NITCHER FROM ABILENE, KANSAS. ANYONE KNOW THESE GUYS ? I’VE PREVIOUSLY ASKED ABOUT MEN FROM THE 526TH INTC DET. ON OKINAWA WHEN I WAS THERE FROM DEC. 1963 TO JULY 1965. VERY LITTLE RESPONSE FROM READERS OF THIS SITE. BY THE WAY, PHIL, THANKS A MIL FOR KEEPING THIS ALIVE. GOOD READING. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — February 24, 2016 @ 12:20 am

  1673. Ben,

    Thanks for the acknowledgement, however, I am am but a frequent contributor to this site. Jim Wiles manages this site and deserves the credit for creating and maintaining it. He is currently investigating why we are missing the first 1,650 emails and will keep us posted on what he is able to find out.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 25, 2016 @ 3:27 pm

  1674. I am sorry, I misspoke, it is Jim Flynn, who is the site administrator of this site. Jim Wiles is a frequent contributor like me.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 25, 2016 @ 3:28 pm

  1675. Hi all,

    I am working to get the comments restored. Please stand by. They have not been lost, they are just not displaying for some reason. Thanks for your patience.

    Comment by Craig — February 25, 2016 @ 6:40 pm

  1676. Craig,

    Thanks so much for your efforts!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 25, 2016 @ 9:06 pm

  1677. Hi, Every once in a while something comes to mind about the ‘Bird. Was there in Aug/Sept/Oct ’65 as a 97D trainee. Went to Fort Benjamin Harrison to do security investigations on all enlisted men in the Army. Went back Jun – Oct ’67 to be a 97C. Was in Vietnam Nov 67 to Nov 68 with MACV in the field. As they say: “Those were interesting times.” That was the end of my MI career. I’ve kept in touch with 3-4 people I worked with. I’ve been back to Vietnam 15 times. Found my team interpreter in Saigon about 5 yrs ago. Questions? Contact me thru my website or Skype “dwighthz”. Cheers, Dwight Z.

    Comment by Dwight Zimpel — February 25, 2016 @ 11:35 pm

  1678. I went through the school at Ft. Holabird from Aug. to Dec. 1962. I was sent to the 503rd MI Co. at McGraw Kaserne, Munich, W. Germany. If anybody was in this class or at the 503rd, please connect! Love to hear from you!

    Comment by Steve Antles — February 25, 2016 @ 11:51 pm

  1679. If G2 can’t solve this we are in trouble.
    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — February 27, 2016 @ 5:33 am

  1680. Hello Fellow Agents, etc.,

    While we wait for Craig to fix the problem with our database, I have something to share. Like a lot of you, I have read every entry posted on this site from Jim Flynn’s narrative when he first reported to Fort Holabird to the present. During this exercise, I copied every email address ever posted by all of the contributors. If you need to contact one of the prior postees, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net, conversely, if you do not want me to share your email address, please advise me as well.

    Thank you!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 29, 2016 @ 10:12 am

  1681. Craig and Jim,

    It is great to see all of the 1680 posted comments again! Thanks so much.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 1, 2016 @ 8:18 am

  1682. Phil, good foresight backing up e-mails of some of America’s finest talent. Kudos to Craig and Jim for retrieval skills! This site and it’s valuable archives are truly a treasure to us. I hope we will always attract our former brethren.
    Ed Hotchkiss. (187 and others)

    Comment by Edward hotchkiss — March 1, 2016 @ 9:43 pm

  1683. Ed,

    I couldn’t agree with you more. God bless all of you contributors. Keep the postings coming.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 1, 2016 @ 10:31 pm

  1684. Outstanding effort on retrieval of the archived comments and posts! Thanks to to Craig and Jim. Thanks also to Phil for his activities and information sharing regarding Ft. Holabird…..then and now.

    Greetings from Germany to all my Intel family.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 2, 2016 @ 7:22 am

  1685. Gary,

    Thanks for your comments! Let me know the next time that you plan to visit your son in D.C. so we can do lunch at the former Ft. Holabird Officers’ Club and invite any others who can handle the commute.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 2, 2016 @ 8:43 am

  1686. Ref1677
    Hi Dwight, l was in the 97D20 class from mid July 65 to the end of Sept 65. We probably crossed paths a million times going back and forth between classes, mess hall etc. sorry I did not know you, I to haven’t located any classmates, but have located and chatted with many fellow MI types who have served in the 502nd MI in Korea with me. Thank you to this wonderful site for the opportunity to reconnect with some of the finest people that I have met in my life. After suffering a stroke this past summer I am now back to good health and able to stay in touch with this site(thank God I only have trouble with short term memory loss and not long term). Stay healthy my fellow holabird alumni.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — March 2, 2016 @ 7:48 pm

  1687. Charles Goffredo, We were in class at the same time. I started my 97D20 course late Aug 65 to 22 Oct 65. I stayed at Holabird for the next 3 years working in S2 Troop Command Great duty.

    Comment by bill117 — March 3, 2016 @ 12:07 am

  1688. Charles(post 1686),
    Your writing shows no sequela, thank goodness. Keep posting. So glad all turned out well and welcome back. By the was what is a 97D20?
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — March 3, 2016 @ 6:09 am

  1689. Manny, 97D20 was a Military Intelligence Coordinator. We did almost anything that had to be done to assist S/A,s and a lot more. From case control to riding shotgun. And some of us were given MOS change to S/A. In my case permanent nighttime duty agent for the 115 MI Group located at the Presidio of San Francisco from early 67 to Jan 68. A great job at group Hqs.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — March 3, 2016 @ 12:52 pm

  1690. Was at Holabird in the summer and fall of 1962 in Agent class. Assigned there after basic at Ft. Knox. I remember the actors behind the glass, running around Baltimore in the surveilance class, and the great mess hall compared to the one at Knox. After graduation, spent the next 2+ years in Charlotte, NC, wearing civilian clothes and driving those stripped down Chevy’s. Every once in a while, we had to go to Ft. Bragg and play real soldier. Great duty.

    Comment by Ed Rogner — March 4, 2016 @ 11:46 am

  1691. Ed,

    Welcome to the blog!

    On another fellow’s posting, I just have had my laugh for the day. When I dialed in to catch the latest postings on this site, I came across an older one that made me fall on the floor with laughter. For any of you that have viewed this site in its entirety, you have seen my many mistakes regarding spelling, grammar, etc., however, the one I viewed today really got to me. On ref. 879, the contributor writes that he was stationed at Fort Holabird from 1861-63. Which if funny because the post was not built until WWI. Anyway, he posts again five minutes later to say that he was not that old and that he didn’t think that Holabird was a post during the Civil War. He was right. ::>)

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 6, 2016 @ 4:11 pm

  1692. I came from a Korean assignment with the ASA – arrived at the Bird late Oct 63. for the B course (Special Agent) I too remember the day JFK was shot; just after lunch the instructor gave me the keys to his car and asked me to listen to the radio and then report to the class what had happened. I wanted to go to Europe or Japan; Joe Allen (SA previously in Korea) – knew I had studied Korean (and Japanese) and said no vacancies – but should go back to Korea. I finally relented one afternoon; he got on the phone to a detailer and my orders were cut. Of course two people in my class – Baker and Blair went to Japan and a couple to France and Germany…..so much for no vacancies! The typing class was the best thing for my future development and now in the computer world. From the Bird – Korea – Okinawa – Vietnam. DC Metropolitan PD, then Special Agent, FBI – left to fly for a commuter airline, then as a Pilot, US Customs Service. Went to medical school at age 37 – now retired from USAF (reserves) and federal civil service. Working tonight ER physician in Princeton, IN (Gibson Hospital)…been doing the ER for 15 years – might retire someday! Best thing I ever did was to go to USAINTS and get that training. Great memories reading the entries.

    Comment by Gregory Lawson — March 7, 2016 @ 5:19 am

  1693. Dr. Greg,

    Welcome to the site! It is nice to hear from such an accomplished individual who got his start at Fort Holabird. Where were you stationed in Korea?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 11, 2016 @ 12:18 pm

  1694. Just started to follow this blog, did not realize the depth. I read the original story about 3 years ago when I started looking for some friends from the bird when I was stationed there. I arrived in May of 1972 and served there until my discharge in Dec of 1974. Yes some parts of the Intel command were still there. I worked for the US Army Intelligence Material Support Office.(USAIMSO) We supplied materials to Intel Units worldwide and also local and Federal law enforcement. So many great memories from the time. Facebook Holabird Alumni page is awesome. Cannot seem to contact those from that time, other Al Alvord who manages the facebook page. Thanks, Steve

    Comment by steve britner — March 12, 2016 @ 8:18 pm

  1695. Hi Steve,

    Welcome to Parkway>>Restop! I am the self-appointed greeter and a frequent contributor to this site. I left Photo School in 1970 and I had three friends, agents, who ETS’d from the Bird in ’71. There were permanent party on the Intell. side. I think that it had something to do with document control. A small portion of the Post is still there. This includes the Officers’ Open Mess, the 3 jeep test hill tracks, and some of the original street grid. A former BOQ/BEQ remains which is now a civilian apartment complex, known as Portside Apartments.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 16, 2016 @ 5:05 pm

  1696. Re: Ed Rogner’s comment about the “stripped down Chevys” in #1690; “My” black ’57 at the 108th’s Buffalo (NY) FO bore NY tag 2N9894. I remember the 4×2’s tag and Army S/N numbers ’cause of all the gas slips and trip tickets I had to fill out during my stint there. My area was NY west of a line between Buffalo south to Salamanca encompassing all of Chatauqua County and half of Cattaraugus totaling about 1,900 sq, miles. Put lots of miles on the ol’ black mariah.

    Should have seen the looks on gas jockeys’ faces when they saw “U.S. ARMY 1F3704” while checking under the hood! We had two other ’57 Chevys, a silver one and one that was a ghastly turquoise plus ’62 and ’63 Valiants.

    I’ve found a few of my old co-workers via other search means. As has been said, once an elephant tracker, always an elephant tracker! Lindsey DeLashmutt was our clerk-typist at Buffalo as Jim Orr was at TUSLOG Det 27 in Turkey. Phil Clark was our MI Coordinator at Det 27 and the two other S/As, Ed Register and Stan Winarski are now “at rest.”

    Bill Schulz, billschul_z@usa2net.net

    Comment by Bill Schulz — March 18, 2016 @ 6:10 pm

  1697. Phil:
    Thanks. I was there this past summer and did a drive thru, trying to figure out where some of the places were. It was tough as it was so long ago that I was there and the changes were tremendous. I have often thought of detailing some of the moments from my time there, but I doubted there would be much interest. I did see the demise of the post from an active post to one of almost utter abandonment.
    Thanks. Steve Britner.
    PS. still looking for some guys from the time.
    Sam Mulhearn, Larry Kish, The twins Steve and Stan, Phyllis, Doug Magnani, anyone from the flag football championship team of 72 and any others from May 72 until Dec. 74.
    PSS: this summer I did learn of the passing of my former roommate and friend Michael O’Keefe. Always a shame we do not stay in contact!

    Comment by steve britner — March 21, 2016 @ 2:36 pm

  1698. Steve,

    Sorry, but none of the names are familiar. Next time that you are in the Fort Holabird area, let me know and I will meet you for lunch at the former Fort Holabird Officers’ Club. They are only open on weekends and I am available on Fridays.

    Best,

    Phil
    Ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 21, 2016 @ 8:00 pm

  1699. Just finished reading two books by former Army MI officer Colonel Stuart Herrington. His was at Holabird in 1967 and later served as commander of the 766th MI Detachment in Berlin. The books are “Traitors Among Us” and “Stalking the Viet Cong.” Both well worth the time.

    Comment by Ed Harris — March 21, 2016 @ 11:25 pm

  1700. Phil: Thanks for the invite.
    steve

    Comment by steve britner — March 22, 2016 @ 12:44 pm

  1701. Steve,

    You are most welcome. Last Spring, I coordinated a lunch at the Officers’ Open Mess. There were 4 of us. The group included 2 agents, one interrogator, and one permanent party non-intel. mos. We had a great time reminiscing, despite an age difference of almost 15 years between the eldest and youngest in the group.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 22, 2016 @ 7:49 pm

  1702. This reply goes back 2 years to #1224. Rob Griffin. I was stationed at Holabird from May 72 until Dec. 74. There were still 2 MI offices there, during the time period of the Watergate hearings) I also lived in Cummins apartment from July 73 until Dec. 74. The main MI contingent was moving to Fort Meade, but as I said we were still there. I surely remember that one of the Watergate guys was a jogger, as they would let him(not sure who, been a long time. Thought maybe Haldeman)jog with the MP’s following. Rob you must have entered by the old gate(walk in) behind Cummins, as that was the way I would walk to work. That gate was never really closed. Your comments stirred memories of kids and bikes in that area. Thanks. (Not sure where my buddies from that time got to).
    Steve Britner

    Comment by steve britner — March 23, 2016 @ 9:57 am

  1703. Even during the riots of the 60’s they never closed the back gate. We were supposed to stay on post and they wouldn’t let us go through the front entrance. We would walk out the back gate and go through the Cummings complex and walk up Dundalk Ave to Holabird Ave to go to the Holabird Inn. It was a long walk but we thought it was worth it. When we came back later, we would walk through the front entrance and the MP’s just waved us through.

    Comment by bill117 — March 23, 2016 @ 11:11 pm

  1704. Steve and Bill,

    I guess that is what happens when you take a post that wasn’t designed originally as an Army Intelligence Headquarters, storage, and training location and then 30 years later turn it into one. According to one map of the fort I have in my possession, aside from the main entrance on Holabird Ave., there were at least 4 entrances to the post on Dundalk Ave. Additionally, the B & O train tracks and Colgate Creek ran through the fort. Because it was so hard to secure the perimeter, the only thing that could be done was to secure certain top security areas within the fort. So you ended up with forts within a larger fort, I.e., one of which was the heavily guarded area where the Watergate detainees were secured.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 24, 2016 @ 1:32 pm

  1705. The other day I was talking with my daughter about my time in MI. I had the same roommate for a year. She asked me if we had the same job. I thought for a minute and then told her that I had no idea what he did. I had never really thought about that before, but none of us really ever talked about what we did. So, even though we worked at the same facility, I

    Comment by Dave — March 25, 2016 @ 12:50 pm

  1706. Wooooops! Hit the wrong button. So even though we worked at the same facility, sometimes used the same transportation, and shared a room for over a year (and ETS’d the same day)I have no idea what he did and do not remember ever discussing things with him or anyone else for that matter. Did any one else have a similar experience?

    Comment by Dave — March 25, 2016 @ 12:54 pm

  1707. Dave,
    Re: #1705. It was the original “don’t ask, don’t tell”.
    It was a culture that we honored. Even when we drank three martinis in 50 minutes during the monsoon, we didn’t discuss any work. I learned a little thru osmosis, but realize how little I knew about the big picture, even involving my assignments.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 25, 2016 @ 2:49 pm

  1708. Dave and Bernie:

    Ditto here. I didn’t know what my friends did, and we were together in the same bay.
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — March 25, 2016 @ 5:46 pm

  1709. Re: #1704In 1965-1968 the only building I remember being fenced in and with armed guards was CRF/IRR. If I remember right, the guards were civilians. Just before I got out in June 1968 a new Senior MI Officers course was set up in a building just inside the main gate and that also was fenced in.

    Re: #1705, I was almost three years with many of the same people living in the same bay and have no idea what their duties were. We ate together, drank together and spent a lot of time talking about life but work didn’t concern us. Even the guys assigned to “Post” working in non-sensitive MOS’s didn’t talk about work.

    Comment by bill117 — March 25, 2016 @ 11:00 pm

  1710. Happy Easter to all of my fellow Holabird veterans. Stay healthy and enjoy your friends and family.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — March 27, 2016 @ 11:13 am

  1711. Bill(1709):
    This may be why we have trouble re-connecting(a common refrain in these posts)and why this site still exists. We were as individualistic as any army unit that existed. No patches,braid colors,etc. Each doing his job, perhaps with a few others. And certainly no reunions with the exception of the two CIC alumni. We were unique in many ways.
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — March 28, 2016 @ 4:05 pm

  1712. Manny, I think you must be right. Almost anybody, who never served at Holabird, has even heard of it. I know a young man who went through a course at Fort Huachuca, and he never heard about it. If you do a search on Google, you find almost nothing. You can find a few pictures (mostly posted by readers of Parkway) and the only video I can find is the one I posted on FaceBook. It is sad that there is almost no trace of it in Dundalk. It is like we never existed. It was a great place to serve and I had an incredible three years that I would not trade for any other duty.
    I feel like we belonged to a special club and glad for this special site. I check it daily and hope it never goes away (like Fort Holabird did)!

    Comment by bill117 — March 28, 2016 @ 11:25 pm

  1713. Guys,

    You need to use Google Maps to see what remains of memory lane. Two things that you should try are:

    6500 Holabird Avenue, Baltimore, MD (The Travelers Inn, formerly Holabird Inn)

    6401 Beckley Street, Baltimore, MD (Vietnam Veterans of America, formerly Fort Holabird Officers Open Mess)

    Use the arrows to cruise around the old post to see what is left. The main entrance to the fort was on Portal Street. Seaforth, Beckley, and Van Deman Streets remain as does Colgate Creek. I know most of everything has been torn down and replaced, however, I would be interested in your comments.

    Thanks!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 30, 2016 @ 10:01 am

  1714. Ref. 1713. That should be Travelers Lounge not Travelers Inn.

    Thanks!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 30, 2016 @ 12:07 pm

  1715. Phil: Hope all is well. I was looking at aerial photo of Holabird from sometime in the 60’s I believe. There is a series of 4 buildings with white roofs that were across from the elevated railway. I worked in that building on side near the railway and where the road passed under the trestle. I believe the Post Commanders house was just past the trestle. Could be wrong. My question, is that street still there and what was its name, if you would know I would appreciate the info. The base is not as my memory thought it was. I have been there several times in the last 4 years but could not remember much. The Officers Club, and the old school building on the hill. I believe that when I was there the Air Force had occupied that building but again that was 44 years ago.
    Thanks, Steve

    Comment by steve britner — April 2, 2016 @ 9:34 am

  1716. Hi Steve,

    All is well and I hope you are the same. I think that I have the same aerial map to which you are referring. I received it when I was first assigned to Fort Holabird in 1968. On the key to the map, it refers to a long rectangular building known as Allen Hall. It sits just to the south of the railroad tracks and to the west of First Avenue, now known as Beckley Street. The commanding general’s hooch sits about one block south of it just below East Main Street off of First Avenue.

    One website that you may want to refer to for some excellent pics is: http://www.waynedow.net/pdffiles/extract4.pdf

    Best,

    Phil
    Please let me know if you would like to discuss this further. I can be reached at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 2, 2016 @ 2:52 pm

  1717. Wow up to 1771 responses and comments!
    See 425, 426,428,429 & 430 for earlier comments & responses.
    Now retired after 50 years as California architect.

    Amazing history in all of above.
    Who is writing the book?
    Best to all.

    Comment by ralph askin — April 4, 2016 @ 5:05 pm

  1718. Ralph(1771):

    Would one have to get a release from the Pentagon to write a book about our experiences as we were mostly TS cleared and signed non-disclosure forms during mustering out? And how long do these classications exist? ‘Til death do us part”?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — April 5, 2016 @ 2:12 pm

  1719. Manny is correct about writing a book containing any classified information based on our past exploits, however, that doesn’t stop us exploring the rich past of Fort Holabird. If anyone would like an outline of the history of our beloved post, please request one by emailing me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    You will not be the first.

    Phil Ostrander
    Special Agent
    1968 – 1971

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 6, 2016 @ 8:07 pm

  1720. I just finished reading AREA 51 An uncensored history of America’s TOP SECRET MILITARY BASE by Annie Jacobsen and OPERATION PAPERCLIP The secret intelligence program the brought Nazi scientists to America also by the same author. I don’t think anyone would have any trouble writing about Fort Holibird and what went on way back when. The information published in the two books is very very interesting for former intelligence types. Just the story of the place and how it was so un army is a story in itself.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — April 11, 2016 @ 9:07 pm

  1721. Today, I ventured out to the Holabird Inn, as I live just 40 minutes from there. As I mentioned previously, the name has been changed to Travelers Lounge. Inside, In the front of the rectangular building is a large rectangular bar. To the rear of the facility are several Art Deco style tables and chairs for dining. Scattered among the dining area are 3 pool tables. The menu is fairly simple with standard American fare selections. Their specialty is shrimp salad which is prepared entirely on site. There is the faint smell of extinguished cigarettes throughout. It is open from 6 a.m. To 2:00 p.m., 7 days a week. It operates with just 2 – 4 employees. Little has changed in just over 45 years.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 11, 2016 @ 9:48 pm

  1722. I guess now most of us are in our 60s and 70s+ and our memories are a little fuzzy of the Holabird days. One funny but sad memory I have is of December 31, 1967. Three of us, me, Fiscus and Mcccormick, did not calculate our leave time very well and ended up returning to Holabird on New Years Eve. Our dorm was empty and most of Dundalk was closed because it was Sunday. We managed to find a bar that sold us some cheap whiskey and as I recall we went back to the dorm and celebrated New Years Eve with papercups , no ice, whiskey shots. I don’t remember seeing anyone in the entire building however someone must have been on duty. Does anyone else remember that day?

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 13, 2016 @ 6:55 pm

  1723. Browsing one of my “long ago” favorites – Ft. Holabird immediately came to mind. Born and raised just up the hill on 48th Street near Oaklawn Cemetery, friends and I spent days during the war to ride bikes to the camp and tease the German prisoners housed there. When we learned that many of them were just a little older then we were, we began stealing Old Gold cigarettes from parents and passing them thru the fence. Enlisted in 1947 at Meade and traveled to Korea, Alaska, Greenland and France with the Signal Corps. Since no Signal Corp promotions were forthcoming, I reverted back to an administrative MOS and was accepted at the University of Scranton, ROTC. In 1960, I was vetted by counter intelligence personnel and took preliminary tests at the local FO. Unfortunately, orders for France had been cut and I was to attend Holabird upon return.

    Everything said about Holabird by former students is perfectly true! Thought I had died and gone to heaven after thirteen years and right in my old back yard! Baltimore surveillances were easy since I had grown up in many of the areas covered. Of course, I could not pass up showing my buddies the back doors of the Gayety and Globe (burlesque) Theaters. While marching troops to class, couldn’t resist calling cadence instead of route step across the aluminum bridge which bounced an unsuspecting officer damned near into stinking, mushy Colgate Creek. Woke up in October ‘62 to a partially empty camp including a couple of my classmates. Seems we were almost at war and all the Spanish speakers had been relocated – whether or not they finished the course.

    First assignment was 108th MI, Syracuse, NY and open a RO in Ithaca NY. Later joined by CWO Leland Fanning (anyone recall him? Great officer!!) Covering over 30 counties in New York winters was a real treat, worse than Alaska or Greenland! Then, off to Germany with the 527th MI in Baumholder; (then back to the 111th at Ft. McPherson, Ga (a real homesteader post) filled with b.s., golfers and ass kissers which got to me after a short while. In ‘65, beginning my 20th year, I was the first to volunteer for Viet Nam. While awaiting orders at McPherson, it seemed that all my friends and acquaintences disappeared at a high rate of speed. Didn’t want the anything to do with the “volunteerism” I had experienced.

    Wound up with the 25th MID in Cu Chi (the tunnel rats.) (w/CWO Gene Forester – another class A officer) and got in on the very last days of Junction City, spent a month or so at the base camp then off to Tay Ninh and operations along the Cambodian border. The Infantry renewed my idea of what the Army was all about. Several close calls and seeing the inside of why we were in VN changed my mind about going for thirty. The Army had changed to many fakes, dope heads guarding your back and the indifference of the enlisted vs. the officers. Open jackets, reasons to know why orders were given and varying ethnic salutes convinced me that the environment I grew up in no longer existed in the military I once knew. Riding out of Cu Chi in the very last C130 at the beginning of the Year of the Monkey, (TET invasion of January 1968) World Airlines (most beautiful hostesses and most whiskey) passed me through the re-introduction to Americans throwing rotten fruit at us and locals suggesting we change to “civvies” while visiting town.

    Spent a snowy month back in Holabird sorting papers and was discharged in March. Since I was still only 37, a promotion and choice of assignments was offered to no avail. Took one last look in the rear view mirror of my car at the front gate and drove back up Fait Avenue to 48th Street. Right back where I started from. It certainly didn’t seem like 21 years had passed but I had a great many memories but some newer, more exciting memories were just up the hill, pointed me south back to Georgia where another life was about to begin. Forty five years later with children and grand children, Dee and I joined our children and grandchildren in Pearland, Texas.

    Some men have a close family to help rear them but the Army charted my life from an uneducated early age and introduced me to situations I’d never dreamed of. The icing on my career came when I was accepted into Army Intelligence and met some of the most interesting, colorful and unbelievable people in the world handling sensitive and world changing situations.
    To all, wherever you are and whatever you have attained and before memories, like Fort Holabird and our 007 days disappear, I must ask:
    “. . .wasn’t it great?”

    Afterword. Several years after my retirement in ‘68, I again visited Baltimore on a whim and sought the Holabird location. The post had been transferred to Fort Haucha (sp) and all that remained was a small parking lot and a fenced off grassy area in an industrial site. Anyone wanting to just chat, drop by or get a steak and beer Dave1an2an@aol.com

    Browsing one of my “long ago” favorites – Ft. Holabird immediately came to mind. Born and raised just up the hill on 48th Street near Oaklawn Cemetery, friends and I spent days during the war to ride bikes to the camp and tease the German prisoners housed there. When we learned that many of them were just a little older then we were, we began stealing Old Gold cigarettes from parents and passing them thru the fence. Enlisted in 1947 at Meade and traveled to Korea, Alaska, Greenland and France with the Signal Corps. Since no Signal Corp promotions were forthcoming, I reverted back to an administrative MOS and was accepted at the University of Scranton, ROTC. In 1960, I was vetted by counter intelligence personnel and took preliminary tests at the local FO. Unfortunately, orders for France had been cut and I was to attend Holabird upon return.

    Everything said about Holabird by former students is perfectly true! Thought I had died and gone to heaven after thirteen years and right in my old back yard! Baltimore surveillances were easy since I had grown up in many of the areas covered. Of course, I could not pass up showing my buddies the back doors of the Gayety and Globe (burlesque) Theaters. While marching troops to class, couldn’t resist calling cadence instead of route step across the aluminum bridge which bounced an unsuspecting officer damned near into stinking, mushy Colgate Creek. Woke up in October ‘62 to a partially empty camp including a couple of my classmates. Seems we were almost at war and all the Spanish speakers had been relocated – whether or not they finished the course.

    First assignment was 108th MI, Syracuse, NY and open a RO in Ithaca NY. Later joined by CWO Leland Fanning (anyone recall him? Great officer!!) Covering over 30 counties in New York winters was a real treat, worse than Alaska or Greenland! Then, off to Germany with the 527th MI in Baumholder; (then back to the 111th at Ft. McPherson, Ga (a real homesteader post) filled with b.s., golfers and ass kissers which got to me after a short while. In ‘65, beginning my 20th year, I was the first to volunteer for Viet Nam. While awaiting orders at McPherson, it seemed that all my friends and acquaintences disappeared at a high rate of speed. Didn’t want the anything to do with the “volunteerism” I had experienced.

    Wound up with the 25th MID in Cu Chi (the tunnel rats.) (w/CWO Gene Forester – another class A officer) and got in on the very last days of Junction City, spent a month or so at the base camp then off to Tay Ninh and operations along the Cambodian border. The Infantry renewed my idea of what the Army was all about. Several close calls and seeing the inside of why we were in VN changed my mind about going for thirty. The Army had changed to many fakes, dope heads guarding your back and the indifference of the enlisted vs. the officers. Open jackets, reasons to know why orders were given and varying ethnic salutes convinced me that the environment I grew up in no longer existed in the military I once knew. Riding out of Cu Chi in the very last C130 at the beginning of the Year of the Monkey, (TET invasion of January 1968) World Airlines (most beautiful hostesses and most whiskey) passed me through the re-introduction to Americans throwing rotten fruit at us and locals suggesting we change to “civvies” while visiting town.

    Spent a snowy month back in Holabird sorting papers and was discharged in March. Since I was still only 37, a promotion and choice of assignments was offered to no avail. Took one last look in the rear view mirror of my car at the front gate and drove back up Fait Avenue to 48th Street. Right back where I started from. It certainly didn’t seem like 21 years had passed but I had a great many memories but some newer, more exciting memories were just up the hill, pointed me south back to Georgia where another life was about to begin. Forty five years later with children and grand children, Dee and I joined our children and grandchildren in Pearland, Texas.

    Some men have a close family to help rear them but the Army charted my life from an uneducated early age and introduced me to situations I’d never dreamed of. The icing on my career came when I was accepted into Army Intelligence and met some of the most interesting, colorful and unbelievable people in the world handling sensitive and world changing situations.
    To all, wherever you are and whatever you have attained and before memories, like Fort Holabird and our 007 days disappear, I must ask:
    “. . .wasn’t it great?”

    Afterword. Several years after my retirement in ‘68, I again visited Baltimore on a whim and sought the Holabird location. The post had been transferred to Fort Haucha and all that remained was a small parking lot and a fenced off grassy area in an industrial site.

    Comment by Dave Mitchell — April 17, 2016 @ 2:21 am

  1724. RECENTLY SAW SOMETHING IRONIC IN AN OLD WESTERN ‘CALVARY’ MOVIE. THE FORT COMMANDER HAD A LINE ABOUT THEIR ‘INTELLIGENCE’ SOURCE GAVE HIM SUCH AND SUCH INFORMATION RE; INDIANS ON WARPATH ETC. THE FORT? FORT HUACHUCA! COULDNT RESIST PASSING THIS ALONG. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — April 17, 2016 @ 12:49 pm

  1725. Ben,

    According to 2 definitions on the Internet, one from Apache and the other from the Chiracahua nation’s language, Huachuca means thunder mountain or place of thunder.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 17, 2016 @ 3:51 pm

  1726. What we need is someone with an old overhead map of the base and the ability to overlay it over the current Google view.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — April 19, 2016 @ 8:50 pm

  1727. Excellent idea, Jack.

    Comment by steve britner — April 21, 2016 @ 8:40 am

  1728. Ref. post #1726. Here’s a partial answer to your request. Go to Google Earth and locate the old Main Entrance Gate across the street from 6420 Holabird Ave. Next pan out to the old Officers Club on the southeast corner of of Beckly and Van Demann Street. Now go to up Wayne Dow’s file of his Officers Guide (link is in post #1716 from Phil Ostrander). In the centerfold of the Guide is an old map of the Post. This should help you visualize where the old buildings were located. Hope this helps until someone comes up with an overlay.

    Comment by Mark Robinson — April 21, 2016 @ 11:27 am

  1729. Mark,

    Great idea! As much as I loved being in MI, Fort Holabird is my thing. Remember, there is very little left of the original fort. I have developed an outline of the History of Fort Holabird. I live about 40 minutes from there. If anyone would like a copy, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    I have sent out almost a dozen so far.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 21, 2016 @ 3:03 pm

  1730. I forget where I got this link from but it has many interesting pictures of Holabird after it had been abandoned.
    http://www.uer.ca/locations/show.asp?locid=21835

    Comment by bill117 — April 21, 2016 @ 10:31 pm

  1731. Bill,

    These are great pics which I admit to having seen before, however, they are so good that they never get old. The white building featuring inside pictures in one series and outside shots in the other, was actually the U.S. Army Intelligence School and Counter Intelligence Records Facility. It was built in 1955 and these functions were transferred to Fort Huachuca in 1971. It continued as the Army Defense Investigative Services building until July 1976 when it transferred its 450 employees to another nearby location and ultimately ended up at Fort Meade. The building was bulldozed in December 2005. An office building currently stands at this site.

    The pics of Tank Hill, as named by the local population, are also great. All 3 jeep test tracks remain in spite of a few trees that have fallen over them.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 22, 2016 @ 4:56 pm

  1732. While attending the school in 1965, the building appeared almost new to me. I can’t believe how old it looks in these pictures. I remember when you went in the front door there was a display case with the chrome shovels that they used to break ground for the building.

    Comment by bill117 — April 22, 2016 @ 11:16 pm

  1733. My family and I drove by the Army Intelligence School building in 2005, just after it was demolished. All that was left was a pile of rubble. I had a chance to get the building’s cornerstone, but unfortunately, passed it up. It was my loss

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 23, 2016 @ 11:58 am

  1734. OOPS! DID ANYONE ELSE CATCH MY ERROR IN ENTRY #1724/ AND WAS BEING TOO POLITE TO SAY ANYTHING. THE WORD IS “CAVALRY” NOT CALVARY,WHICH I BELIEVE IS A MOUNTAIN MENTIONED IN THE HOLY BIBLE. THANKS PHIL, ON THE DEF. OF HUACHUCA. I FIGURED THAT IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH “INTELLIGENCE”. I THINK I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY THAT MORE THAN ONCE I RODE MY 250CC 1963 YAHAMA UP AND DOWN THE JEEP/TRUCK TEST RAMPS. JUST SUMPIN’TO DO. THIS IS THE BIKE I RODE TO HOLABIRD FROM FORT WORTH,TEXAS AND THEN BACK TO TEXAS AFTER I FOUND OUT THAT I WAS BEING ASSIGNED TO OKINAWA FOR 18 MONTHS. THIS WAS AFTER J.F.K. WAS SHOT AND KILLED IN DALLAS,NOV.22,1963. BY THE BY, I HAVE 8MM FILM OF THE CANNON BEING FIRED; AND BECAUSE OF HOW I FILMED IT,THE FIRINGS APPEAR ON SCREEN WITH VERY SHORT INTERVALS. WONDER IF THE FILM HAS ANY VALUE OTHER THAN MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT. NEVER HAVE INVESTIGATED THIS. COMMENTS? BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — April 23, 2016 @ 10:00 pm

  1735. Burt,

    Yes on all.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — April 24, 2016 @ 7:34 am

  1736. Ben,

    I agree that most people might have been too polite to mention it. Like me, they thought they knew the gist of what you were saying and thought that was much more important. Heck, most of us make mistakes in our postings to this site. Anyone who has ridden a 250cc 1963 Yamaha (sp) between Baltimore and Texas is worth hearing from (I know/knew that I should not end this sentence with a preposition.). Is that one too many periods?

    In all seriousness Ben, thank you for all of your postings!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 24, 2016 @ 3:37 pm

  1737. Ref post 1720: I am not sure that a book could legally be written about Fort Holabird. I don’t believe the government has ever admitted that anything other than motor vehicle activities went on there from the early years up until it closed. Most of the posts refer to counter intelligence courses, but a lot more was going on. I doubt if it would be legal to mention the activities on this site or in a book.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — April 27, 2016 @ 8:30 pm

  1738. Ref post 1693; Phil – I left the Bird and sent to the 502nd in Korea – Inchoon FO theb Co B iHQ then FO in Yongsan. From there to 209th MI in Okinawa and then 173rd ABN Brigade in Vietnam. My wife and I are in Rome, IT airport waiting to come back from a Med Trip – then back to work in the ERs.
    Regards, Greg

    Comment by Greg Lawson — April 28, 2016 @ 3:14 am

  1739. Hi Greg,

    I was assigned to Co B, 502nd for a short time starting in August of 1970. I was told that the best assignments for agents were in the field, so I petitioned my CO, MAJ Norton for an assignment. Received a transfer to the Taejon FO under CPT Larry Hammes and subsequently MAJ Norton again and then ETS ‘d after getting an education early out in May 1971.

    Although I am not on Facebook, I am told that there is an excellent page located there about the 502nd MI BN.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 28, 2016 @ 9:29 am

  1740. Phil thanks for the historical outline of Fort Holabird you emailed to me. For those looking for the 502nd MI Bn Facebook page you mentioned the keywords are Seoul, Korea, 502nd MI BN Co B, Tracey compound.
    Thanks
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 28, 2016 @ 1:51 pm

  1741. Thanks Daryl!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 28, 2016 @ 4:59 pm

  1742. Today, I read my weekly copy of the Dundalk Eagle and noticed a brief caption with picture of one of two signs that were just installed at Fort Howard Park commemorating another of the Baltimore area’s well known installations, namely, Fort Howard. This post, within a twenty minute ride of Fort Holabird, was built in 1902, 15 years before Fort Holabird, and served as Baltimore’s coastal artillery headquarters for many years.

    The reason that I mention this is because there is currently no signage commerating our beloved post. Two possible locations for such a sign could be at the former main entrance at Holabird and Portal Streets or in front of the former Officers’ Open Mess on Beckley Street and Van Deman Streets.

    A few ideas include contacting the Maryland Historical Trust which administers the Maryland Roadside Historical Marker Program or if that fails, contacting a local Boy Scout Troop. This could be part of an Eagle Scout project. Any other ideas?

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 29, 2016 @ 10:28 am

  1743. Greetings,

    Ref. 1742 I stand in error. I contacted the Maryland Historical Trust, mentioned above, and found that I was incorrect in my assumption concerning a lack of signage in the area surrounding the location of the former fort. I was informed that a marker exists in a small park in the southwest corner of Dundalk and Holabird Avenues. It was erected on 10/01/2010 and reads as follows:

    Camp Holabird

    Named for Quartermaster General Samuel Holabird (1826 – 1907) and established in 1917 as the Army’s first motor transport training center and depot. Supplied WWl American Expeditionary Forces in France with Detroit made vehicles. Trained thousands to drive and repair automobiles and trucks. By 1920 a center for the research and development of military vehicles. Here the jeep, a WWll icon was tested and refined. Housed the Army Intelligence School from 1945 until closure in 1972.

    So, MI got one line on this marker. I stand corrected.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 29, 2016 @ 11:12 am

  1744. I am trying to loacate Joe Bynum. He was in the 97B40 class from Jan 1968 to May 1968. He was the only one who had gone into the peace corps from college, so was older than most of us just coming out of college and into the army. His orders sent him to Burma. I never heard from him again and am interested if anyone knew him or worked with him. Most of our class went directly to vietnamese language school at Ft.SamHouston. Joe was sent to Burma and I was sent to Los Angeles to the army track team, where some 11 of us made the 68 Olympic Team. I did not and went back to working in MI.
    I have always wondered what happened to Joe, so it anyone knows, please send in a comment. Thanks, Gordon Cooper, gcooper9273@icloud.com

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — May 2, 2016 @ 8:30 pm

  1745. I’m surprised he went from the Peace Corps to USAINTS. When I enlisted in 1965, if you were in the Peace Corps you were ineligible. It was the same for the Peace Corps. If you were in any Intelligence work, you could not join the Peace Corps.
    They didn’t want anyone to get the impression that Peace Corps workers might be undercover agents.

    Comment by bill117 — May 2, 2016 @ 11:18 pm

  1746. Ref. 1744 and 1745. I was also under the impression that service in the Peace Corps was a disqualifier. In fact, I was told that it was. The agent who did my pre-enlistment interview at the Pittsburgh Field Office must have asked me four times if I had ever been in the Peace Corps.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — May 2, 2016 @ 11:35 pm

  1747. Geez! Never knew so many folks spent time at the Bird. I was a draftee (1970) – spent a miserable BCT in June/July 1970 at Fort Polk, then about 8 months in an accelerated Vietnamese language course at DLISW at Fort Bliss (actually on Biggs AFB next to Bliss). Graduated in May 1971, then sent to Ft. Holabird for an 8 week interrogator course, earning my MOS of 96C2LVS. Our class at Ft. Bliss was the last to go to Nam. At the Bird, I to was amazed at the “non-militariness” of the place. Every weekend my buddy and I either flew home to Chicago or took the Greyhound to Washington. Never had any duty (KP, guard, etc.)and I think we spent only one weekend at Holabird. We kept hearing stories about the “Dundalk Dollies” but never met any! Colgate Creek sure had an aroma and it took me several weeks to figure out that some days crossing that bridge there was hardly any water, other days was flooded. Didn’t realize it was a coastal tidal creek! We spent most evenings at the movie house, very little time in Baltimore (was hard to get around without wheels). I do recall that almost all of our instructors were Marine gunnery sergeants. Tough guys but mostly OK. The ironic part is when I made it to Nam I got stationed with the 101st Airborne up at Camp Eagle as a G-2 Aerial Recon Analyst. They had no need for interrogators as they said “we don’t take no stinking prisoners.” More irony (or lucky coincidence) – when looking for my first “real” job after Nam and after graduate school, I interviewed with a VP of IT in Chicago – we got to talking – found out he was stationed at the Bird several years before me but was USAF. I think that’s the only reason he hired me – I couldn’t even spell “IT” at the time – but it led to a 35 year career in the field – retired in 2004. I always heard Holabird was an EPA Superfund Clean-up site after it closed, but I think that was a nasty rumor spread by people who recall the smell of Colgate Creek and the nearby breweries. The cooking mash never smelled that bad! Would be interesting to see what the site looks like today. Thanks for this site – brings back memories!

    Comment by Mike Smogor — May 3, 2016 @ 8:54 am

  1748. All,

    Ref. 1747. Please take a look at Mike Smogor’s website, by clicking on his name in orange above. It is really well done with a special tribute to a fallen comrade of his in Vietnam.

    Thank you Mike!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 3, 2016 @ 11:08 am

  1749. Howdy All,

    I received the following in an e-mail, rather than in a commen. I’m posting it here, as you might enjoy it. It is from a gentleman named Fall H. Cutler:

    I might be your oldest contributor. I was at CIC school at Holabird in 1951-52. General Phillip Gallagher was there as Commanding general CIC, and about the only other officer I remember by name was a Col. Newton. I was sent overseas in January of 1952 and served at 430th CIC Detachment in Vienna, Austria until March of 1953. A distinct memory I have was marching to class every morning with the fumes of the nearby Calvert distillery wafting all around us. A long time ago. I’ll be 88 in early June.

    Comment by Jim — May 4, 2016 @ 9:48 am

  1750. Re: 1723, Dean Mitchell, there is a former English linguist, a Turk who was the counterpart to our unit’s Turkish linguist, who lived in Pearland but who is now living on Wolfe Air Park (3T2) down Manvel way. Great guy, US citizen, and unassailable patriot by the name of Atakan Sobay. Saw him last week and will again in September at the TUSLOG (ASA) re-union in Dayton, OH.

    It has taken me many, many moons to figure out the following: Do NOT mess with Uncle Sugar when he’s feeling magnanimous.

    Long story short, during the winter of ’62-3 as a Buffalo FO S/A, I busted a Nike site in western NY in a security inspection. The 108th HQ liked that so much they offered me a do-not-stop-at-second-go-directly-to-first-looie from buck sgt. At the time I had ’bout 18 mos. to go and Col Statchwich, the region commander, said that my commitment would be 24 mos. from date of commission. I politely passed on the offer.

    Here’s the part I didn’t get until five decades later: There definitely WAS a connection between my refusal of that generous offer and receiving an overseas alert for Turkey a couple of weeks later.

    That it took half a century for that to perk to the top of my gray matter should disqualify me from any further intel work! DUH?!

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 4, 2016 @ 10:13 pm

  1751. Bill,

    You just “updated” this old guy’s cerebral receptors with your last post(1750). Similar story but with West Point offer, turned down,stayed Sp4, p—-d major off by doing so. Now I know why I’ll die an Sp4.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 5, 2016 @ 5:21 am

  1752. I arrive at Ft. Holabird in Sept 1967. I too went to school as 96D2T, TIFF. The last 2 weeks my class was sent to DC to be taught by CIA. Can’t remember anything for 8 hours a day , 2 weeks duration. Everything else I remember such as where I was billeted, Georgetown disco, and as many of the clubs we could manage, etc. I don’t consciously remember that the CIA took over the class…. it’s only a gut feeling. I surely would like to have those 2 weeks of my life back!!! Anyone else have this experience?
    Scott Monroe

    Comment by E. Scott Monroe — May 6, 2016 @ 2:24 am

  1753. I remember my CO at the Ft. Bragg Field Office, CPT Haines, telling us an interesting story about one night while stationed at Ft. Holabird he ventured into the Keystone Inn. The building remains and is now known as the Phillips Inn and Restaurant, on Holabird Ave., about 5 blocks east of our former base. Anyway, he had just completed Jump School and thought rather well of himself that was until he ran into some bikers seated at the bar. One of them commented about his “squared away” appearance. He shouted back at the man with a sarcastic response. The next thing that my boss remembered was when he woke up in the hospital with a concussion and various other injuries. Never again …

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 13, 2016 @ 9:04 pm

  1754. Question for y’all- How long are our in-service exploits classified? And to what extent, C? S? TS? Higher?

    I know that the then-TS mission of one of the Dets of the ASA unit I was attached to in Turkey has been de-classified and can even be found on the web.

    Or are we just taking pride in our general “spookiness”?

    Speaking of which, I’ve found a real bargain to help us recognize each other, an MI Pin (Item# 1267) from MilitaryVetsPX.com for a mere $4.29 + S&H.

    My “better half” got me a ring for Christmas from Dunham Mfg. in El Paso, TX. It is their “Stadium” design with U.S. ARMY around the onyx (black ops, doncha know) stone. One side is inscribed with TUSLOG above the ASA logo and the opposite has USAINTC above the MI shield. When asked about the cryptic names and shields, I simply reply that I could tell them but have to kill them. Yeah, I know, sounds trite to us but it usually elicits an “Ah, OK!” and that’s the end of that. The same will apply to the MI Pin I’m ordering for cap/lapel wear.

    Memorial Day is coming up and let’s not make the mistake some well-meaning but woefully misguided souls make by also memorializing Vets and Active Duty who have their own honor days (Veterans and Armed Forces). This one’s to honor the better than 670,000 of our brothers who made the ultimate sacrifice in all the wars since the Revolution and let’s give them their due.

    William J. Schulz, S/A, USAINTC (former)

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 23, 2016 @ 6:42 pm

  1755. Bill,

    Thanks for the information on your posting above. I did some additional snooping on the Web and found another site that may be of interest to former MI types. It is: http://www.cafepress.com and all one needs to do is to type “military intelligence” once you locate the site. The advantage of this online store is that it already has military intelligence ball caps and tee shirts available. Prices are as low as $13.99 and $17.95 respectively. There is no need to do a special order and pay the higher sticker price

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 24, 2016 @ 4:33 pm

  1756. Thanks for the link, Phil.

    No takers on the degree of classification for our exploits?

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 26, 2016 @ 3:09 pm

  1757. Re:1754. I would imagine declassification of an op or project would depend on the individual op. CIA just declassified documents from World War I.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — May 27, 2016 @ 6:19 pm

  1758. A Memorial Day tribute to all of those who gave all in the defense of our country. A special tribute to the helicopter pilots and crew assigned to the 525 MI BN
    in Bien Hoa (1970-1971). They were a great group of guys.
    May they Rest in Peace.

    Comment by Jerry McCarty — May 30, 2016 @ 8:11 am

  1759. Re: 1754. Very little of what we did is still classified. Even some of the most sensitive operations out of Berlin were discussed in Col Stuart Herrington’s book “Traitors Among Us.” I was surprised at the detail revealed about double agent operations in Berlin as well as other operations in the US.

    Comment by Ed Harris — May 31, 2016 @ 7:27 pm

  1760. Re:1755. I ordered a couple of the baseball caps with the 502 MI Bn logo and it is so small you barely can make it out. Plus the hats are made in China..

    Comment by Steve Bostick — June 6, 2016 @ 11:39 am

  1761. Re: 1755

    Steve,

    I am sorry that you had a problem. In the future, if I mention any websites that offer souvenirs for sale, I will definitely indicate a disclaimer. Caveat Emptor …

    Your trial run with this firm will help the rest of us who might be considering a purchase from that site.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 6, 2016 @ 5:37 pm

  1762. Folks, Obviously 50 years leaves some holes in our collective memories. I volunteered (RA) for MI and attended 97B40 class in the summer of 1966 and most of my fleeting memories parallel those of most of you, especially The Holabird Inn, where by the end of the month we had enough money left to split a 25 cent beer. Class came early for most of us and more than once I got a friendly hit from those on either side of me to keep me awake after a night on the town. We too had Marines in our class, including a E-6 (who was also CIA we would later learn,) who became frustrated with our inability to march in step, except when we crossed the bridge over the creek.
    Graduation saw many of us head off to Vietnam, noting most made E5 in their first year and stayed at that rank for the next two years. One member of our class said no way in hell for Vietnam, called his uncle, a two star in the Air Force, and his orders were changed to San Francisco😃 For most of us, it was off to nam. Three of us, to include Tom Erson and Dave Fredericks all went to the 524th MI, and opened an office in Long Bien. Another class member spent a year under cover living in a Vietnamese house of ill repute. We lost a 9666 in 1967, see my next post re final recognition for him.

    We returned to the USA to the 113th MI in Chicago, where I went to the special investigations team for other types of investigations, to include the riots in Chicago. I was liaison between MI, the FBI and the Natinal Guard when I took the call from the White House indication the NG had been federalized. The CG didn’t believe it until I handed him the phone.

    Tom Erson and I lived together and between the two of us we had 4 cars (2 personal, 2 Army), but many a morning we were lucky to find one somewhere on the streets nearby our apt. Good times, especially noting I was only 20 upon entering MI school (the only one not carded at the Holabird Inn) and the only one in our class without a 4 year degree, but since I had worked for the FBI for 1 year as a GS3, I somehow got in.

    After getting out in 1969 I was married, finished an undergraduate degree, joined the FBI as an SA, and had a great 25 year career, one which likely would not have been without my time as an MI SA. My service, like all of you, had a profound effect on my life from that point forward. We Holabird grads were so very fortunate to do what we did.

    Please see my next posting re 1Lt Dennis Holm, 524 MI in Saigon, KIA in 1967. His loss was recognized almost 50 years later.

    Best to all,

    Clint Van Zandt

    Comment by Clint Van Zandt — June 11, 2016 @ 6:13 pm

  1763. Just stumbled in here tonite..WOW..im an alumni from the later days..1972-75..assigned to the USAREUR liaison team with Maj Tobias.After the post was being shut down we lived off post in the old Cummins apts..not sure when I was completely shut down, but most offices relocated to Ft Meade. The old Criminal Records bldg. near the bowling alley stood vacant for years and burned down. The bowling alley bldg. was vacant and I was able to enter for a look around about 13 years ago…that was weird. Theres now a horseradish factory where the records bldg. was..The circle track is still there..its now called Holabird Industrial Park..cleaned up some and you can still visit Colgate Creek. DIS bldg. is gone..street names are still the same. I wound up staying and living in MD so I do get there often and remember all the good times.

    Comment by Tom — June 11, 2016 @ 9:12 pm

  1764. ref 1758
    A Memorial Day tribute to all of those who gave all in the defense of our country. A special tribute to the helicopter pilots and crew assigned to the 525 MI BN
    in Bien Hoa (1970-1971). They were a great group of guys.
    May they Rest in Peace.

    Comment by Jerry McCarty — May 30, 2016 @ 8:11 am

    I was with 525 III Corps Bien Hoa ’69-70′ and knew some of the crew but was not aware of that disaster…do you have any other info/details? Jerry Smith

    Comment by Jerry Smith — June 11, 2016 @ 9:59 pm

  1765. 25th MID, graduated from Holabird for many courses, moved our blessed home from the bird to we-got-ya Arizona. retired in the fall of ’78. Still hanging around scaring the kids and old ladies.
    Ernie Wells

    Comment by Ernie Wells — June 13, 2016 @ 8:24 am

  1766. What a great find amongst the all-too-frequent drivel on the web! Thanks so much to those who originated this and those who’ve kept it running with comments. Posts from old colleagues have stirred many, many memories – including those from Don Clifton and Ed Harris from our Advanced Course – and Ken Robinson from 68B20 in the summer of 1968. So, enough with the bona fides already. What’s the protocol for giving/getting contact data?

    Comment by John Nolan — June 14, 2016 @ 11:52 pm

  1767. Re #1762

    The Helicopter assigned to the 525th (3rd BN Bien Hoa) went down on April 8, 1971. Go to “redacted.com” and search
    that date for the info. I remember that the movie had just started outside the “club” and Colonel Wentzyl sent someone out
    to make the announcement.

    Comment by Jerry McCarty — June 16, 2016 @ 8:54 am

  1768. I just read an article in the Dundalk Eagle, that on June 17, 1972, forty-four years ago today, D.C, Police arrested 5 burglars in the HQ of the DNC un the Watergate Hotel complex in Washington, D.C. Later, in 1973, Donald H. Segretti, Charles Colson, Jeb Stuart Magruder, E. Howard Hunt, Herbert W. Kalmbach, and Egil M. Krogh were detained at Fort Holabird awaiting charges concerning the break-in. The building where they were housed no longer exists but this just shows how Ft. Holabird played a significant role in our nation’s history.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 16, 2016 @ 8:53 pm

  1769. Thanks for the memories. I served as Company Clerk under MSG Trimper and 2LT Smith in a Training Company at Ft. Holabird from April 1967 through August 1967 immediately after Basic Training at Ft. Jackson. Unfortunately, I cannot remember any of the names of others whom I worked with while at Ft. Holabird.

    Comment by Peter Fanuele — June 18, 2016 @ 6:42 pm

  1770. Happy Father’s Day , and most likely in our cases Happy Father’s Day to all the grandfathers (great grandfathers) out there who proudly served their country . Stay healthy my fellow Fort Holabird veterans.

    Comment by Charles goffredo — June 19, 2016 @ 11:06 am

  1771. Brethren and Sisters of HOTC:

    For those who have had the experience of a lifetime in Viet Nam and who are continuing that joy with those delightful later experiences that Agent Orange had in store for us, I invite your attention to this recent story my son sent me. He sent it because of the apparent genetic transmission of whatever the chemicals caused in my ugly old body (mostly some fairly intense peripheral neuropathy in feet and hands)that is now visiting even greater pain and such in his mere 40 year old body. From my research and experiences with other fellows, it’s not just those of us from 5th SF camps and other border excursions, but many Navy guys from the riverine forces, AF jocks who flew the spraying missions, and so on. My fervent hope that as you read it, is that it’s not addressing any of your present lives; for those of you whom it does……expressions of empathy and condolences seem pretty insignificant.

    https://www.propublica.org/article/a-fathers-war-a-sons-toxic-inheritance?google_editors_picks=true

    Comment by John Nolan — June 20, 2016 @ 11:50 pm

  1772. Had lost this site but found it again tonight .

    Comment by John Washington — June 22, 2016 @ 2:12 am

  1773. John,

    Welcome back!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 23, 2016 @ 7:09 am

  1774. I was at Fort Holabird in March of 62. 969 image int. Went to 2nd Mil Intel Bn ARS 7th Army.Looking for anyone in class or in 2nd Bn

    Comment by Zarryl Hilt — June 30, 2016 @ 6:53 pm

  1775. Can you get me in contact with Fred Hessler who was at Fort Devens, Mass. during my training between Labor Day 1964 to the end of February 1965. He was a hero because he save some lives because the wooden barracks were on fire in the middle of the night.

    Comment by Bob Wiedemer — July 2, 2016 @ 5:41 pm

  1776. Gordon Cooper, post #1744:

    I just scoped out-

    Joe Bynam
    55 Rosemount Cir
    Phenix City, AL 36869
    (334) 297-5946 –

    See more at: http://www.zabasearch.com

    Shows at 68 yrs. old.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — July 8, 2016 @ 3:45 pm

  1777. Anyone,
    Does anyone remember a Michael Uhl? CIC Vietnam. eleventh Infantry, Americal Division, intelligence team.
    Fort Holabird trained a possibility. Just came across his name in a recently published book WITNESS TO THE REVOLUTION by Clara Bingham (2016).

    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — July 15, 2016 @ 5:45 pm

  1778. Re #1769, Manny, he has a wikipedia page and it says he did receive training at the “elite Fort Holabird”.

    Comment by bill leach jr — July 15, 2016 @ 10:33 pm

  1779. J.D Salinger of CATCHER IN THE RYE fame wrote a book about his WWII CIC experiences titled “Diary of a CIC agent. Does anyone know if it has been published. Saw his bio on “American Masters” on PBS. Fascinating. Love to get reactions to his marriage against military regulations to a Nazi (and subsequent annulment). So many untold stories!
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — July 19, 2016 @ 5:05 am

  1780. Manny,
    According to a site called “Goodreads.com” in Aug 2014, he had 5 unpublished books on the subject of CIC agents. He also had a romance novel that wasn’t published. He probably had more than that.

    Comment by bill leach jr — July 19, 2016 @ 10:44 pm

  1781. Bill,
    Thanks. Ran across a biography SALINGER by Shields & Salerno with a great deal of info on Salinger’s CIC experiences. Found a couple of errors (re Holabird and confusion of what he exactly did). Other than his Army time I found the book somewhat of a bore, but thaan I’m not an English lit major or can’t you tell?).
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — July 29, 2016 @ 4:22 pm

  1782. John Nolan,

    Welcome to the site! Please provide us with your email address. I have contact information from all of those who have ever visited this site and left their addresses. Please contact me if you need more information or have any questions.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 2, 2016 @ 1:37 pm

  1783. John.

    Sorry, my email is ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 2, 2016 @ 1:39 pm

  1784. I am curious as to how other MI units handled personnel issues for agents. I was a single enlisted agent with the 526th MI in Okinawa from October 67 to July 69. By personnel issues, I mean things like ID cards and quarters. I recall that the unit took my military ID card and issued me a DAC card. I think the rank was GS-7. I was also supposed to be billeted in a 4-bedroom BOQ at the Naha Wheel area, but stayed at the Naha Field Office instead. The married enlisted agents had quarters in the Machinato Housing area. They were in the enlisted area, but the names listed on the homes showed “Mr” instead of a military rank. The warrant officers were in the officer’s section and they too had “Mr” on their quarters name plates. The unit was so compartmentalized that I have no idea where the enlisted agents who worked out of the headquarters were billeted. I do recall that single non-agent personnel were billeted in quonset huts outside the unit compound close to the Club Cobean which served as the unit headquarters mess area. The club must have been like an open mess because anyone could go there and dine or drink at the bar. Wonder how it was in other overseas areas. Never worked stateside so don’t know how it was there either. Funny, my father was an warrant officer agent and I never thought to ask him how his ID documentation was.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — August 5, 2016 @ 10:18 pm

  1785. Wayne, Ref. # 1784.
    In 1956-7, I was stationed at HQ, Seoul. Military dependents were not allowed, so housing was
    easier. All were housed in our compound. The enlisted men were in quonset huts, as were some work areas. Other activities and the officers were housed in older buildings with the exception of the O Club which was newer [probably built by the Army] with a bar, dance floor, and theater. No food was served. All CIC personnel could frequent. The only other GIs in the compound were several sergeants in the mess hall and a few privates in the motor pool. They did not use the club.
    We had many indigenous personnel, doing almost all support functions, including perimeter guards and in the mess hall which helps explain the “wave of GIs” every month. All indigenous personnel were men except for the B gals in the O Club.
    Initially, we wore USA insignia on our uniforms and later the DAC patch. Our DAC ID had no rank, so by knowing the appropriate ranks, you could have the best hamburger at an NCO club and a drink at an O club. I was allowed to keep my DAC ID card. Starting in 1958, I was told that the S/As wore civilian clothes.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — August 6, 2016 @ 12:29 pm

  1786. Reference #1785.
    One correction. Our cleaning personnel were house boys and mama-sans [obviously females plus the B gals].
    During our twice {?} a month Sat. morning inspections, the cleaning personnel would clean the area while we ate breakfast. The tap water was not potable, so we used fancy whiskey bottles with all labeling removed. We got the water from a “tanker” in the compound. During one Sat. inspection,
    the captain doing the inspections discovered a beer bottle that the mama-san had missed. He handed the beer bottle to the S/A and said that all water bottles had to have the labeling removed.
    The yearly IG visit was detrimental to our operation, rather than helpful. After the visit when I was there, we
    were gigged for not doing morning calisthenics and not having frequent propaganda. A number of us, including officers, were out at 7 AM for less than a week. Apparently the officers decided it wasn’t worth it – that ended it. We weren’t so lucky with the propaganda. Every {?} week we had to endure an hour presentation and to add insult to injury:
    a.] one of us had to give the presentation – given the topic.
    b.] we attended from 4-5 PM. In the summer we played volleyball from 4-5 and during the monsoon
    and winter we got ready for the bar to open at 5 PM.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — August 6, 2016 @ 6:29 pm

  1787. Ref #1784

    This is about the 115th CIC at Presidio of San Francisco in 1955-56 (6th Army HQ).

    Both agents and clerical staff (like me) in the unit received rations and quarters allowances, since the unit had no assigned quarters. The agents wore civvies (including hats) but other personnel wore uniforms – 6th Army patches, U. S. and Great Seal brass. All uniformed personnel (not just CIC) at Presidio wore ODs year-round because of San Francisco’s peculiar climate.

    You were on your own to find a place to live. I lived in a boarding house for about six months, an apartment with a buddy for six, and a furnished flat with three buddies another six. The flat was seven rooms and a garage for $125 a month – $30 apiece, $35 for the one who used the garage.

    Comment by Bob Fox — August 7, 2016 @ 1:51 pm

  1788. Ref.#1784
    I was stationed in Taejon, Korea from August 1970 to June 1971. I obtained an “early out” to return to school where I earned my undergraduate degree. My COs’ during that 10 month period included 2 CPT’s and one MAJ. The location was Stonestown Compound. Nearby was Supply Point 49. At the Taejon Field Office, we had half a dozen S/A’s. In addition to the CO, we had an XO, and an MI Coordinator. All office personnel lived in 2 bedroom stucco ranch style houses with tile roofs. Each house had a living room and a bathroom with a tile shower. The Officers’ Club and the EM Club were open to all of our office personnel. Generally, we ate at the mess hall. All of us wore civilian clothes and went by the title of Mr. In addition to our B’s and C’s, we had US MI Agent ID cards. We employed 3 Korean language translators, a houseman, and a laundress, all were indigenous personnel.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 7, 2016 @ 2:17 pm

  1789. I find it strange that the only mention on the Wikipedia page for Fort Holabird being the Army Intelligence School is one line.
    “1950: Renamed as Fort Holabird. The U.S. Army Intelligence School and Counter Intelligence Records Facility based here until transferred to Fort Huachuca, Arizona in 1971”.
    Also, no mention of Holabird being the Headquarters for Army Intelligence.
    It seems like a forgotten post.

    Comment by bill leach jr — August 7, 2016 @ 11:02 pm

  1790. Bill- Wikipedia is an “open” encyclopedia and anyone can add to or edit an entry. It’s apparently a self-policied environment and if an error exists, someone is bound to find it and correct it.

    I’m a FIAT nut having driven the smaller sedans since 1958 and I have made several additions and/or corrections to pieces on the models I know intimately. Never got any flak on it. Every article I’ve seen has “(edit)” at the end.

    My point is that some of the ‘Bird info is probably no really for general consumption but got posted by some one who really knew better but had “loose lips” or fingertips as the case may be.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — August 8, 2016 @ 9:11 pm

  1791. Nov 1956, Agent’s Course. Ducked KP as a Bugler. Ft Benning, OCS, Monterey, Russian Germany, 532d MI Bn, G2, 7th Army, 66th. Returned, 1964 for Advance Course, stayed Instructor, CI Dept,with “Mo” Murray, John Block and others. Classes 6 days a week, 0700 – 1900. Happy to go to Turkey.

    Comment by Bill Ward — August 9, 2016 @ 12:39 am

  1792. Ref#1789
    Mssrs. Leach and Schultz,

    Maybe I am looking at a different Wikipedia source, but when I type “Fort Holabird”, I am able to find a short paragraph on its history and a timeline from its creation to its demise. Since this page was written, I have embellished upon it into a page and one-half timeline. If anyone would like a copy or has questions about the present condition of the remains of Fort Holabird, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net. I have given presentations on its history to different local groups in the past 2 years.

    Phil Ostrander
    Baltimore Native

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 9, 2016 @ 8:57 am

  1793. Phil-

    A cursory look at the site I was referring to (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Holabird) does give a simple overview at the start. However, if you scroll farther down the page there are links to “Counterintelligence Corps (United States Army),” “United States Counterintelligence,” and “United States Army Intelligence Center.” The latter gives all sorts of information about S/A training, authority, weapons, etc. so I’d say it’s a pretty complete rundown on what CI spooks did, do and can do.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — August 11, 2016 @ 12:10 pm

  1794. Correction on the above post: The second link, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Counterintelligence listed is the one with all the “poop.”

    Comment by Bill Schulz — August 11, 2016 @ 12:13 pm

  1795. http://www.bstu.bund.de

    Start your search if you think Stasi had info on you. Results will be in German.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — August 11, 2016 @ 2:05 pm

  1796. Bill Schulz,

    One of my favorite sites about Fort Holabird is the one listed by Wayne Dow: http://www.waynedow.net/pdffiles/extract4.pdf
    It is the Officers’ Guide to Fort Holabird containing 67 pages including 13 pictures and a 1953 map with a building location key.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 12, 2016 @ 9:47 am

  1797. Re 1795
    Phil: Only the first page of the 67 is from the Officer’s Guide. The other 66 pages are from my personal collection (825 pages)of material related to Holabird and CIC. I’ve added another 42 pages to the extract4 that I thought may be of interest to others.

    Comment by Wayne Dow — August 21, 2016 @ 8:25 pm

  1798. I just stumbled upon this site and like many it brought back many memories. I did basic at Ft Jackson then on to Ft Sam Huston and Ft Benning where I did my OJT. When I got my orders for my next duty station and read Ft Holibird I started asking around for where and what it was until finally an old sergeant told me it was in Baltimore but, he didn’t know anything else about it. I was there from Jan. 1964 thru April 1967 and worked as an x-ray tech in the dispensary. While I was assigned to HQ company I bunked in the basement of the dispensary. I went home to Pennsylvania every weekend I was there but, I almost didn’t make it back during the 1965 blizzard. It was a fun place to be if you had to be in the army only FT Sam Houston was more fun. I would enjoy hearing from anyone who was at the dispensary during that time frame.

    Comment by greg michael — September 6, 2016 @ 4:23 pm

  1799. Re #1767

    Jerry, I was also at Bien Hoa in April, 1971. Sorry, I don’t remember you. I worked in the S3 shop.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — September 6, 2016 @ 5:32 pm

  1800. Re #1796

    Larry, I was at the 3BN HQ for 6 months with Maj Krape and Maj Wahl. Then down the road to a team with Ihor Husar. Greg Altschuh and Mike McCarthy were on the team next door.

    Comment by Jerry McCarty — September 7, 2016 @ 9:41 pm

  1801. Duc Huc – a mock Vietnamese village, was constructed in 1956 by soldiers of the US Special Forces at Fort Howard, MD, several miles southeast of Fort Holabird. It was used throughout the 1960’s in order to prepare for the guerilla and counterinsurgency warfare that our troops would experience in the jungles of Vietnam. The USAINTC secured a portion of one of several remaining batteries of the old post to be used for field training and combat familiarization. Unfortunately, this site was never widely used by the US military. On August 20th, members of the Friends of Fort Howard Park and other local groups, after clearing the site of weeds and trash, installed an historical marker indicating the location of Duc Huc.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 8, 2016 @ 12:42 pm

  1802. I remember going to Fort Howard one afternoon during the final portion of our 97B training. It was a good change of pace from the classroom as was the “surveillance” exercise in downtown Baltimore. The other thing I remember about the final week was the class meeting we had at the end of a training day when we found out what our first assignment was going to be. Because of my age, received an age waiver to attend class, I thought I might get an assignment to Army Language School, but no, I received orders for the 90th Replacement Battalion, APO San Francisco 96307. There were five us in 66-B-24 that received the same assignment that eventually ended up with all of being assigned to the 524th MI Detachment.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — September 8, 2016 @ 10:58 pm

  1803. Fort Howard – I remember doing an FTX there as part of my agent class training. Specifically, I recall chasing unmarked government cars around the base as part of what was supposed to be a a surveillance exercise. They used to employ Fort Holabird WACS on the FTX’s however, this was discontinued because of too much fraternization between the sexes.

    For years there have been efforts to redevelop the 96+ acres of land into townhouses and apartments for retired veterans and others but each attempt has ended in failure. Today, the former fort, now a park, sits on a peninsula between the Patapsco River and the Chesapeake Bay, waiting for its next stage of development.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 9, 2016 @ 9:22 am

  1804. Are we still here?

    Manny Adler
    Class of 1955

    Comment by Manny Adler — October 10, 2016 @ 5:07 am

  1805. Hi Guys,

    Wayne, Jerry, Larry, Bob, Bill S. Bill L., etc., please sign in to let us know that you are still alive and well.

    I was encouraged to read in Stars and Stripes that we, as honorably discharged veterans, will be eligible for online PX previleges as of Veterans’ Day in 2017.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander
    Agent Class of 1969

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 10, 2016 @ 7:29 am

  1806. RE: 1794, be sure to send raised seal papers of identity (birth records, old passport, etc) if you are looking to find if Stasi had you in their sights during Cold War tours in Germany.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — October 10, 2016 @ 12:15 pm

  1807. what date was that Stars & Stripes issue you referred to. I may be too far away to really benefit from PX privileges. I may not live that long anyway. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — October 10, 2016 @ 5:53 pm

  1808. Alive and well in Hawaii although will be flying to Vegas next week for a high school reunion. Yes that is correct. Vegas is the favorite site for many reunions for many Hawaii schools. In my case, I graduated from Leilehua High School which is in Wahiawa. Quite a few of my classmates, myself included, had fathers who were stationed at Schofield Barracks with the 25th Inf. Div. The “Tropic Lightning” is still there!

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — October 10, 2016 @ 10:15 pm

  1809. Hello gentleman,
    Still here in Waterbury Ct. And healthy.
    As usual,our guy Manny revived the chatter after a longer than expected lull.
    Hope all is well with everybody.
    Ed (class of 1966,R11)
    Submitted 1st entry #187

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — October 10, 2016 @ 10:58 pm

  1810. Ref 1805,
    Class R11 started in Nov. 1966 and graduated in Feb. 1967
    Ed

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — October 10, 2016 @ 11:35 pm

  1811. I was a student at Fort Holabird in 1968 and an instructor in 1970. In between I was with the 2nd Military Intelligence Detachment, 2nd Infantry Division, South Korea. You might be interested in my Facebook Author’s Page. See my website.

    Comment by Walt Lamberg — October 14, 2016 @ 7:56 pm

  1812. I was a student at Fort Holabird in 1968 and an instructor in 1970. In between, I served with the 2nd Military Detachment in South Korea. See my website.

    Comment by Walt Lamberg — October 14, 2016 @ 7:59 pm

  1813. Does anyone know what herbicide was used at the mock Vietnamese village at Ft Howard?

    Comment by Wade Morse — October 16, 2016 @ 6:57 pm

  1814. Wade,

    I am sure that it was some kind of a mock herbicide 🙂

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 16, 2016 @ 9:37 pm

  1815. Wade and Phil,

    Perhaps the “herbicide” was really a hallucinogenic and there was no mock Vietnamese village?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — October 19, 2016 @ 2:38 pm

  1816. Hi Manny, do you remember very slight man major at the time. John L Cunningham, stationed at Holabird 1955-1960. Later worked under Col Chapman at Hopkins Barracks, Oberammergau, Intel School.

    Trust you are doing well.

    Comment by Philip cunningham — October 20, 2016 @ 11:18 pm

  1817. Email philip.a.cunningham@gmail.com. E5 Signal Corp, Berlin Brigade 1978-1981

    Comment by Philip cunningham — October 20, 2016 @ 11:23 pm

  1818. You might be interested in joining the Facebook page “Fort Holabird Alumni”: https://www.facebook.com/groups/288623728874

    There are also Facebook pages for Military Intelligence and for various MI units. Access Facebook and do a search on “Military Intelligence.”

    A couple posts suggested that someone should write a book about Fort Holabird. I did. “A Real Piece of Work” is a collection of 13 Army short stories that take place from 1967 through 1973 and present the experiences of five soldiers in Basic Training and Advanced Training in MI, their combat tours in South Vietnam and South Korea, their remaining months of their active duty. They look forward to being civilians again, but when that happens, they discover they are something different, no longer soldiers, but not quite civilians. They are VETERANS. https://www.amazon.com/Real-Piece-Work-Short-Stories-ebook/dp/B01GNGCMS2

    Comment by Walt Lamberg — October 22, 2016 @ 9:44 pm

  1819. Hi, any of you remember the Liberty Bell restaurant in Dundalk? I’m looking for someone who dated my grandma who worked there in 1969/70. I think his name was Jim Price, but I’m not 100% sure. Would love to hear from anyone who remembers the place and maybe remembers a Jim Price too. I know he left for Nam on a second tour in the Spring of 1970.

    Comment by Jo — October 26, 2016 @ 6:27 am

  1820. Back from Vegas poorer by a little, but that is to be expected as you do not expect to win-how else could all those casinos be built if you win.
    I was talking to one of my classmates and the topic of our days in the Army came up. He was in signal and said that he needed a Top Secret clearance because of his work in comm centers. He said that he was surprised on what happened before he got his clearance when some of the people he listed on the forms he had to fill out were contacted by Army agents asking about his background. I had to laugh because we were some of those same Army agents who checked on soldier’s background. I explained to him that that was part of the work I did as a counterintelligence agent. I further explained on how his background investigation was conducted and how in addition to the listed character references that developed character references were also talked to. Funny how some of the things you used to do come back to you.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — October 26, 2016 @ 9:58 pm

  1821. Wayne,

    I was in the HR field for over 35 years in private business before I retired. Most of that time was spent as a corporate recruiter. It was funny because we were rarely encouraged to go after developed charter references when we did background checks. This is especially ironic as they provided a lot of interesting and sometimes derogatory information that otherwise we might not have uncovered.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 27, 2016 @ 10:37 am

  1822. DCRs were the best, usually, source of derog. Did BIs for several USG agencies after retirement and some required a certain number of DCRs. Also serviced some very remote areas and after establishing a source there (DCR) retained ID as starting point for some searching in those areas. Did have one LCR who revealed Subject was a real Red China fan back in the early 80s and in line for a job where this might be a problem. Had several really interesting incidents in this otherwise routine BI work.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — October 27, 2016 @ 12:33 pm

  1823. Question. At the NCO Club on Fort Holabird, I believe a glass of draft beer was 15 cents. Anyone remember how much a pitcher cost?

    Comment by Walt Lamberg — October 29, 2016 @ 7:42 pm

  1824. Lord, what a hoot all this is! I regret having only just now found the website.

    I too recall the shock of arriving at Holabird in September 1961 after basic at Fort Jackson, SC. The laid-back atmosphere was hard to accept at first but we got used to it.

    General Garrison Coverdale was in charge. Like most flag officers he had to have his notable peculiarity which, in his case, was a “close haircut” fetish.

    I recall steak night in the mess hall where one could snag two meals by going in at both ends of the chow line.

    I took the Agents Course and was ultimately assigned to the Richmond VA field office of the 109th INTC. We lived and worked as civilians running background investigations and security inspections.

    One case I ran required me to interview a school teacher in a remote coal mining community in Southwest Virginia. I found the one-room school-house after fording a small stream. It was like going back to the 19th century. An older, harried schoolmarm had a room full of kids of varying ages, a pot-bellied stove in the center of the room, a pan of drinking water with a ladle on the floor, and a couple of broken windows stuffed with cloth! This was the 1960s: I couldn’t believe it!

    On November 22, 1963 I happened to be working in the field office when the wife of one of our officers called in and told us to turn on the television which sat in front of my desk. There was Walter Cronkite announcing the death of President Kennedy. The following weekend we were on alert.

    A good friend, now almost 93, fought across Europe in 1944-45 winning two Bronze Stars, the Purple Heart, and the coveted Combat Infantry Badge.

    Recently I corresponded with a former SF/SOG vet who ran reconn into North Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. He had a rough time and obviously, even now, is suffering from PTSD.

    In comparison, I’m almost embarrassed to call myself a veteran when I think about the idyllic service many of us had. We were not tested as others have been. Would we have acquitted ourselves with distinction or would we have failed? We will never know.

    Comment by Bob Tatum — November 3, 2016 @ 5:09 pm

  1825. Went through The Bird in late ’55 and when I arrived in Baltimore from Ft. Bragg no one at the airport could direct me. Best advice was to take shuttle to a downtown hotel from where I took a city bus. Great experience at The Bird with super people in my class. Many lawyers in agent class as Army had stopped giving commissions to lawyers. Being fluent in Spanish, I wound up in 470th CIC detachment in Panama Canal Zone which at that time was a hot bed of intrigue…very exciting and demanding. On discharge, went on to a graduate degree from American Graduate School for International Management (Thunderbird)and on to 40 years in global marketing. Was constantly amazed at how many Americans working overseas in advertising and marketing shared intelligence backgrounds. Fate took me back to Panama as I resided there for about 2 years and was constantly worried at running into local contacts from my CIC days.

    Comment by Tony Martinez — November 7, 2016 @ 12:58 am

  1826. Guys and Other Interested Parties:

    Tomorrow, please ensure that you exercise your right of franchise. Do not be convinced by ruses on Facebook and other social media that you can text or phone-in your vote. You must either vote in-person tomorrow or submit an absentee ballot by the deadline indicated.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 7, 2016 @ 6:24 pm

  1827. Happy Veteran’s Day to all! Tomorrow I visit the graves of my two favorite veterans (Mom and Dad). He was a combat officer and she a combat nurse in the European Theater during WWII. They met because he caught German Measles. They had six kids and three of us served during Vietnam. I still work, because I like to teach. I meet fewer and fewer vets each year my age. Enjoy every day and this Thanksgiving share your stories with your children.

    Comment by Dave — November 10, 2016 @ 3:11 pm

  1828. Happy Thanksgiving to you all. I’m thinking back to my year in Vietnam with the 524th MI. I do not remember having done anything special for Thanksgiving. Many of my meals were eaten at the Four Oceans Club which was operated by the Navy in the Cholon area kind of close to the large px/commissary complex there. If I did go there, I must have had some turkey for at least one of my “holiday” meals.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — November 10, 2016 @ 3:52 pm

  1829. Happy Veteran,s Day to all of my fellow veterans especially Fort Holabird students and permanent party. A special shout out to those that I served with and who were stationed at the 502nd MI , Korea and the 115th MI Group, Presidio San Francisco.. Stay healthy my friends.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — November 11, 2016 @ 12:10 pm

  1830. My wife and I ran into Harry Matsuno earlier today at the Hickam Exchange. Harry is a retired agent and poly man who spent most of his career in the Far East. We served together at the 526th MI in Okinawa in the last 60th. He is originally from Denver, CO and now lives in Hawaii. One of the good things about Hawaii is the chance to run into retirees at one of the many military facilities here.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — November 13, 2016 @ 9:58 pm

  1831. Greetings Comrades,

    One of my fondest memories was taking my neighborhood friends from western Baltimore County for a tour of Fort Holabird in my 1968 dark blue V8 Ford Custom, during the holidays in the early 70’s before the advent of the bulldozers. As we entered through main gate (#12) on Van Deman Drive (some of which is still there), I was very impressed by the Christmas lights which were all over the post’s many brick and mortar and wooden buildings. What a memory! Happy Holidays!

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 15, 2016 @ 7:09 pm

  1832. Phil,

    Thanks for keeping us coming back. Back in my day “Greetings Comrades” might has raised some eyebrows.

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — November 17, 2016 @ 6:16 am

  1833. Manny,

    I guess you could say that it got your attention. Maybe, we can try a different approach. Let us invite everyone to post one of their memories about Ft. Holabird or their MI experience. Manny, as our senior statesman, why don’t you be the first?

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 17, 2016 @ 8:53 am

  1834. How’s this memory from 1962, Augsburg Germany: After partying the night before, one of our agents suggested we avoid the early morning in the office but get in the fresh air to “invigorate” ourselves by putting on our TA21 thermal boots and do a walk to check security of the Divisional dump. Among other things we found a classified bit of microfilm from a sister service referring to agent meetings in Vienna, a real no no at that time. So we added to our services of DASE and DAME, DUMP.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — November 18, 2016 @ 1:42 pm

  1835. TO ALL . I’LL NEVER FORGET THANKSGIVING DAY AND MEAL AT FORT HOLABIRD 1963. SOME STUDENT HAD COME DOWN WITH SPINAL MENINGITIS AND OUR BAY AREA WAS PUT UNDER QUARANTINE FOR A FEW DAYS. THANKSGIVING DINNER WAS SERVED TO US IN THE BAY AS OTHER MEALS WERE ALSO. WASN’T A LOT OF FUN BUT FORTUNATELY AS BEST I RECALL NO OTHER ONE “CAUGHT ” THE DISEASE. HARD TO BELIEVE THAT WAS 53 YEARS AGO, IF MY MATH IS CORRECT. THEN AFTER HOLABIRD I WAS ASSIGNED TO THE 526TH M.I. DETACHMENT ON OKINAWA WHICH WAS A WHOLE NEW WORLD! BEN BURT

    Comment by Bennie Carlton Burt — November 18, 2016 @ 10:33 pm

  1836. in 1964-5 I had the pleasure of working with the 8th army boat detachment in the 502nd (that was the USAS Report stationed in Inchon. made a couple of forays on that ship. the most amazing things I remember were the smaller vessels, the swift boats and the experiential PT boats. those things were exceptionally fast. recovered a shipment of Korean made versions of the AK 47s.

    Comment by jimmy bone — November 19, 2016 @ 9:12 pm

  1837. also let us all remember the significance of Nov 22, 1963.

    Comment by jimmy bone — November 19, 2016 @ 9:13 pm

  1838. Jim,

    The interesting bit about the Holabird Generation is that we can all remember where we were on November 22, 1963. Unfortunately, I had to break the news of President Kennedy’s assassination to my 10th grade algebra class.

    As for Thanksgiving Day, I like to think about family and why not tie it together with Ft. Holabird. It seems that in just about every other Agent Class, one of the guys ended up marrying a local Dundalk gal. J. Hahn, the guy I replaced at the Taejon F.O., ROK, married a local gal and after his tour in Korea, they moved to his boyhood home in Indianna. C. Blackmon, originally, from CA, married a gal who worked on base and since his discharge, they have lived in Dundalk. T. Neuman married a local gal and they now reside in eastern Baltimore County. My wife, Carolyn, was originally from Eastwood, a community just north of Dundalk. Ironically, she once lived in Cummins, now Portside Apts., which used to be BOQ/BEQ for the fort. Finally, my mother-in-law, Lillian, used to go to dances at the Serviceman’s Club, near the main entrance on Holabird Ave., in the 1940’s.

    Two years ago, Messrs. Blackmon, Neuman, and another former agent, and I met for lunch at the former Officers’ Open Mess on Beckley and Van Deman Sts.

    Happy Holidays!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 23, 2016 @ 10:13 am

  1839. I had just completed basic training at ft. Jackson sc, and at 6:00 am the morning of 11/22/63 with about 60 other men on our way to be distributed among the military post up and down the eastern seaboard. there was much going on as one can imagine, and it was loud and rowdy. about 2:00 one of the troops broke out a portable radio and was trying to get it tuned in. it was about 2:00 pm and we were passing thru Richmond when we picked up a news break announcing that a president had been assassinated. we all assumed it was a south America but as we listened longer, we too soon discovered it was “Our President”. The bus might as well have been a tomb, as it became deathly silent and overcame by realization that life would change forever. it now became apparent for those of us going to Holabird that we had found our calling. such a heavy weight rest on our shoulders. we were unique of all times. I know that I felt a difference in my life as I am sure did each and all of you. I give thanks to the US Army for what it gave to me. I received much more than I gave. God bless you, each and every one of you. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — November 24, 2016 @ 12:58 pm

  1840. Just stumbled across this website and found it rather interesting. I had been searching for information on “Ma” Klecka due to the fact that I had asked my wife a double question and she replied “yes” to it, and floods of memories came back regarding proper questioning techniques and the “actors” at the Bird.

    I was there from June-Dec ’70 and came out as a 97B40 CI Agent.

    Spent a year at the Mobile, AL resident office (part of the 11th MI Group)and then got sent to Kaiserslautern, FRG, 527th MI Bn for two years. Had to extend for 6 months to go to K-Town cause it was a two year tour and I only had 18 months left. Since my name was on the move list I knew it was either extend for 6 months and go to Germany or go to somewhere where the TOD was less. The 1-year options weren’t that attractive. Never regretted the extra 6 months of active duty.

    Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!!

    Comment by Dave Gardner — November 24, 2016 @ 1:26 pm

  1841. Correction: the Mobile RO was part of the 111th MI Group, not the 11th. Bad proof reading 🙂

    Comment by Dave Gardner — November 24, 2016 @ 1:27 pm

  1842. 11/22/63; attending German language training at Oberammergau; rough duty. (Later on staff there!) Decided to take in Casa Carioca ice show in Garmisch that evening with dinner served, etc. For those who remember this was at the Garmisch Rec center and later collapsed in embezzlement scandal. At the time driving down the mountain from O’gau caused a complete loss of AFN radio signal which happened that late afternoon. We arrived at the Casa, were seated and had the dinner served (the floor would roll back and reveal the ice below). Time kept passing and we knew the show was late but not why. Then the PA system came on and, I recall exactly, a voice said “Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States in dead”. That was it, no explanation from the voice or other info except the show was cancelled. Especially remember the deep sorrow of our landlords, working people in O’gau from whom we rented a small apartment, the Spichtingers.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — November 25, 2016 @ 2:09 pm

  1843. In 1957, three of us met with the Vice President of Korea, Chang, Myon [AKA Dr. John Chang & Dr. John Chang Myon]. The meeting was arranged by an overt contact, Warren Han [AKA Han, Sung In, McCune-Reischauer 7281/2573/1377]. Warren had been the Minister of Finance in the transition government from the end of WWII [1945] until the election of President Syngman Rhee in 1948. We met with Chang, Myon at his private residence. After being escorted to a room, the three of us were left alone with the Vice President. He spoke English well and we engaged in small talk for about 20 minutes. He had no governmental power since he belonged to the
    opposition party of Rhee [as did Warren].
    In 1960, Chang, Myon was elected prime minister and Syngman Rhee was not re-elected president. The prime minister and not the president of Korea was now the head of government [Korea became a parliamentary republic]. In 1961, Park, Chung Hee, Korean General, staged a bloodless coup d’etat. Chang, Myon died a natural death some five years later.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 29, 2016 @ 4:29 pm

  1844. Post 1826 by Bernie Thielen was similar to a lot of information I know resides with our older agents. Really enjoyed it and THX.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — November 30, 2016 @ 2:28 pm

  1845. my fondest memory of the Bird is meeting my wife wh0 was a clerk typist at the induction center at Ft. Holabird. She typed my papers not knowing she was putting herself in the army. She helped me when I was in Korean language school and we were married 11/21/69 two weeks before I went to Korea. Once I was assigned to the 502nd Taegu Field office and located a house for us she flew over for a unbelievable honeymoon in the land of morning calm. Still together after all these years and look back upon our time in Korea as forever life changing and best time of our lives.

    Comment by charles simms, esq. — December 2, 2016 @ 11:27 pm

  1846. Re: Post 1826: Just out of curiosity, Bernie, what was your MOS?

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — December 3, 2016 @ 7:24 pm

  1847. Question: Places to go drinking in Fell’s Point in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s? I remember The Horse You Rode in On, Max’s Taphouse, Leadbetter’s Tavern, Obivcki’s where I was introduced to steamed crabs. Anyone remember other places?

    Comment by Walt Lamberg — December 3, 2016 @ 8:31 pm

  1848. In response to Jack, post 1828, my MOS was 971.xx. Was it 971.71 or 971.17? My DD214 is in the safety deposit box.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 3, 2016 @ 9:19 pm

  1849. As mentioned in post 1826, Warren Han was an overt contact. We would invite him to our O club that was open to S/As . Warren would arrive with 2-4 other Korean men who spoke English. We would have two drinks and see a movie in our club. The club didn’t serve food. Warren would reciprocate by treating us to dinner in a Korean restaurant. These restaurants were off-limits to US soldiers since they had no refrigerators. The three of us never suffered from eating in these cafes. However, about every month a “wave of GIs” would happen with those that only ate in our mess hall. Korean kitchen help had no concept of sanitation [or did they – I once saw a Korean KPer lick his fork clean before using it to obtain jam from the communal jar.] We had no complaints since we had no KP duty {I assume this was good use of confidential funds}.
    We would drink sake in the Korean restaurants, but never any hard liquor since the crooks would drain the good liquor thru a small hole in the bottom of the hard liquor bottle and refill it with deadly alcohol. At every visit with Warren, we would give him a fifth of whiskey and a container of Alka-Seltzer. His wife fell in love with Alka-Seltzer when a student in the US. Warren didn’t need money, but these gifts were invaluable to him since he couldn’t obtain them locally. We never met Warren’s wife, but he did bring his two sons once to see a movie at our compound. Warren invited us to his house one time. He was alone, we sat on the floor [tatami mats], no furniture in the room, and almost no heat. He told us to keep our coats on. Of course, we removed our shoes before entering. Warren was originally from North Korea and was forced south twice during the Korean Conflict. He showed us two suitcases. If the North Koreans invaded again, he would grab his luggage and beat a fast retreat with his family. Warren said that the luggage contained a stamp collection that would pay the college education for his two sons in the US and a round-the-world cruise for him and his wife.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 3, 2016 @ 9:29 pm

  1850. The US Army jeeps in Korea were post-WWII style. The South Korean Army received the WWII style jeeps from the US. Some of these jeeps “found” there way into the civilian economy and were painted bright colors. We [CIC Seoul] did have two WWII style jeeps with Korean license plates. One jeep was medium blue and the other bright green for discreetly meeting certain informants. The different styles minimized our post-WWII jeeps being stolen because even the engines were different, but not the wheels and tires. I can still clearly picture the stencil on the jeep dashboard indicating “I cost $2,033”. I sometimes took weekend trips [non-work] and was always worried about having the jeep stolen. There were no military dependents or personal cars allowed in 1956-7. Our compound club was fairly nice [considering this was three years after the truce], so it was visited by other military officers. I remember giving a major from G-2 a ride back to the main base. He didn’t have access to a jeep.
    The US jeeps in South Korea had unit designations painted on the bumpers rather than license plates. Our CIC jeeps had fake designations on the bumpers and were changed/repainted ever so often. The old papa-san selling souvenirs outside our compound gate I’m sure copied all the designations along with other observations because I don’t think our compound provided enough sales to justify his everyday presence. We kept the canvas tops on our jeeps year round so that it would be more difficult to recognize occupants. In the “old [our]” Army, all tops came off on a certain date and all tops were replaced on a specific date [just like the a/c on/off dates for my sister’s apartment in NYC]. We obtained a letter from the provost marshal stating we were allowed to have tops year round after the MPs forced one of our guys to remove the top before he could proceed. Our jeeps had no spare tire because they could be too easily stolen. After complaints that we needed a spare, a spare wheel was added with a padlock, but we were never given the key to the padlock. The lack of key didn’t matter much because there were no tools in the jeep to change the flat. The jeeps had no ignition key, just an on/off switch. A log chain was welded to the transmission housing. We would loop the chain through the steering wheel and close the loop with a padlock. The key to the log chain padlock stayed with the jeep in our compound, but no one thought of adding a second key for the spare tire lock.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 6, 2016 @ 6:46 pm

  1851. Bernie,

    fascinating historical material. This is what makes this site worthwhile.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — December 7, 2016 @ 6:06 am

  1852. Ref:1831. While stationed T the 502nd M I , Yongsan compound, Seoul Korea 9/65 to 4/67 we still had a lot of the jeeps you mentioned along with the newer models. They were secured the same way to the the steering wheel. Some of the jeeps were painted black with Armed Forces license plates. All had the whip antennas. The green jeeps had 502MI markings on the bumpers. One very interesting aspect was that the trip tickets were worded to give us complete control over were we went and at what times. During this period a curfew was still in effect from 2400 hours to 0600 for all of the population of Korea except military and law enforcement personnel. The best thing about the jeeps was that we could use them (with prior permission) as rec vehicles anytime they were not being utilized for official business. This was definitely a huge bonus as no one was allowed private vehicles during this period. And we still got to use the Opertional Trip Tickets with the vehicles with all the advantages it gave us MI types

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — December 7, 2016 @ 12:43 pm

  1853. #1831, Was in Korea, 1970-71, and all that Bernie described is accurate for my time there. Worst thing one could do was to leave jeep unlocked and it be stolen. Rumor was that you didn’t go home until it was found. Was a close friend to the senior CID officer who about a month from rotation to states, and got his jeep taken. Found it two weeks later up near DMZ painted purple. He had resources to find it.

    Comment by Terry Clark — December 8, 2016 @ 12:38 am

  1854. When I arrived in Korea in the summer of 1956, I was assigned to Hq, 38th Spt Bn, 8222 AU APO 301, San Francisco, CA. It was a cover name and later our compound name was changed to Hq, 30th Svc Bn, APO 301. During my first weekend in Korea, I rode an Army bus back from the SMP [Seoul Main Post] after visiting the PX and some of my college friends who were stationed there. In determining which bus to take, the Korean bus drivers didn’t recognize our compound name, but fortunately I knew we were near the Stars and Stripes distribution center and the swimming pool. When we were approaching our compound I said stop here. The driver replied “that’s the 308th CIC”. He knew it was the 308th which I didn’t know.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 8, 2016 @ 10:17 pm

  1855. Whenever we checked out a jeep in 1956-7 from our Seoul compound we would stop at the Army gas station. It was just a pump and no services. The pump would only dispense five gallons of gasoline which we pumped ourselves. We would sign the clip board controlled by a soldier and leave. One time my jeep clutch mechanism broke in the gas station; fortunately the clutch was permanently engaged. I drove it back to our compound [maybe three miles] for a different jeep. When I returned to the gas station I noticed that my five gallons on the clip board from the recent visit had been changed from 5 to 15 gallons as were all the other gas entries. I went inside to inform the Lt. in charge. I soon realized “how stupid can I be” and beat a fast retreat. I reported the incident to my captain who had the CID interview me. Maybe two weeks later I asked the good captain the status. No status from CID. Again, my intuition said “shut up and ignore the entire incident” which I did

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 9, 2016 @ 4:34 pm

  1856. Bernie,

    Thanks for sharing your memories of your experience in the ROK. My time their from 1970 – 1971 certainly pales in comparison. I, too, drove a 1/4 ton jeep. Mine was painted black. The most significant memory that I had was driving up the side of a mountain to perform a security inspection at SP 49 near Taejon. I remember driving up a 30 – 40% grade thinking that the vehicle would flip but I gunned the engine and we were able to handle the hill quite easily. The other remembrance was being near the mountain top where I faced off against a deuce-and-a-half water truck on a one lane road. He yielded which was a good thing as there were shear drop offs on either side of the one lane road. The trip was quite an experience that I will never forget.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 10, 2016 @ 8:58 am

  1857. Correction – the inspection was actually done at Richmond Site.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 10, 2016 @ 9:01 am

  1858. Phil – There was a mountain in the Seoul area that was closed to everyone. We suspected it was a South Korean CIC compound with signal monitoring. One night two of our guys bypassed the barrier at the base of the mountain and slowly drove their jeep up the road toward the mountain top. As soon as they realized that they were under gun fire, they abandoned the jeep and ran like hell down the road. Since the South Korean CIC was our friend, we negotiated the return of our jeep in daring daylight hours.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 10, 2016 @ 11:46 am

  1859. Phil – One weekend in 1957, I visited a fellow S/A in western South Korea, toward Kunsan airbase. I took the train from Seoul to Taejon where Tom met me in his jeep. We navigated one of those narrow gravel road you mentioned in #1835. One of his duties was to visit police chiefs to uncover any new residents in the area, particularly young men who could be North Korean spies. Drinking sake was part of the tradition. One afternoon when Tom returned to his Japanese villa in the middle of nowhere, the gate guard was absent. He cautiously went into the villa and saw motion. He withdrew his 38 caliber revolver [2″ barrel] from the quick draw holster [wire spring holding the pistol rather than a strap and snap] on his belt. After emptying the revolver, he “killed” the refrigerator. They were unsuccessful scrounging another frig. Is the moral of the story “don’t drink and shoot”?

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 10, 2016 @ 12:07 pm

  1860. Bernie, I spent some time in the ROK although many years after you when things were more civilized (late 68 to late 70). Nearly all of the Jeeps on the road were black than, including many used by the military. White vehicles were reserved for emergency vehicles like fire equipment, police and ambulances. At that time, all vehicles had to have their license plate permanently attached to the vehicle by a bolt threaded through the body and the plate and welded so it could not be stolen. I had the use of three vehicles, a black Jeep, a black Ford sedan and a tan Toyota. The vehicle of choice depended on the job at hand. License plates in the ROK were of three types with different letter combinations on the plate. There was a military plate used by the military, a non military plate that had access to military bases and a strictly civilian plate used by all ROK civilians that would not have access to military bases. I had three special design plates, one of each type, for each car. From the front, the welded bolt was clearly visible, but the back was magnetic and “attached” to a steal plate, so they could be switched out whenever needed. As for that mountain in the Seoul area you mentioned in #1837, if it was the mountain i think it was, I did have access to that area and you are correct, that was not a good place to drive to without the proper identification. There was also a curfew throughout the ROK when I was there which could also create problems. The Korean National Police took a dim view if any activity on the streets after curfew.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — December 10, 2016 @ 8:44 pm

  1861. Bernie and Jack,

    At Stonestown Compound, we also had a black Ford sedan, probably, a Galaxy. Our CO’s used it mostly to visit their ROK CIC counterparts.

    On one occasion, a Korean CIC Captain took me out on a night on the town, paying for everything, including dinner, drinks, and a local gal who ended up doubling as a translator between the CPT and me, as his English was extremely limited.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 11, 2016 @ 8:51 am

  1862. In the 1950s, South Korea was a third world country. Now it’s a first world country. Is there such a thing as a second world country? Thievery was rampant in South Korea after the Korean Conflict. The black market was a significant component of the economy. When we couldn’t get ignition points for out jeeps thru Army channels, the motor pool would buy them on the black market for $2 [the very same US made points that had been stolen]. One of our guys rode on a train with the new provost marshal who claimed that he would put a stop to all the stealing. Nothing changed. It seemed to be an unstated and unofficial policy of the Army and maybe even higher levels of the US government to allow the thievery. I was not bothered by this because people probably would have starved otherwise. I was bothered 20 years after WWII ended [mid 1960s] when the US Air Force [and again probably higher levels of US government] allowed German merchants to charge Americans working in Germany double for all services [anything without a price tag] including rent. We civilians were installing an air defense system for Germany. It was paid for by US taxpayers and we had Status of Forces privileges. Our many complaints about double charging went nowhere. This policy may have been necessary immediately after WWII, but only made the German businessmen richer in the 1960s.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 11, 2016 @ 8:06 pm

  1863. In 1956 during the ship trip from Ft. Lewis to Japan a master sergeant informed me that he had served under my father. I told him that my father was never in the military service. Both of us were on the same classified orders and were assigned to CIC, Seoul. Some 35 years later [early 1990s] I typed my name into an Internet search engine on my PC. Out pops Col. Bernard Thielen who personally delivered the formal Japanese surrender papers that were signed on the USS Missouri to President Truman. Since I’m Bernard Thielen, Jr. it was a natural assumption. Some 40+ years after the ship ride [late 1990s] my son and I attended a ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknowns for CICers killed in the line of duty. The event included lunch at the Fort Meyer O Club. Each of us introduced ourselves at a table of eight. When one guy asked me several pertinent questions about Korea I realized he was the same master sarge who had asked me about my father on the ship to Japan. Sometimes it’s a small world.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 11, 2016 @ 8:37 pm

  1864. Bernie,

    I believe that you should think about publishing your memoirs about your military experience, especially in Korea, if you haven’t done so already.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 11, 2016 @ 8:51 pm

  1865. Phil,
    Thanks for the compliment, but I’ve told many of my experiences. Besides, with a math mind I’m not a very natural [good] writer.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 11, 2016 @ 9:45 pm

  1866. The Inspector General {IG} visited [in 1957] our Seoul Compound once during my tour. As a result, things got worst in two ways. The IG wanted us, including officers, to exercise every day. We did for about three mornings until the officers said enough. So back to being at work by 8 AM with or without breakfast. Our other “failure” according to the IG was more lasting. We were required to have one hour of propaganda every week. The sessions were presented by the rank and file. No officers attended. When my turn came I found a film on point {we were given the topic}. The sessions were from 4 PM to 5 PM. My film was one hour long. It took several minutes to introduce the film and start the projector. When 5 PM arrived, the guys said stop the film, but I said there’s only several minutes to go. Now stupid could I be. There was no testing, we were just required to spend an hour. The guys were right. To make matters worse we normally quit work at 4 PM. In summer we played volleyball. In winter and the monsoon we would “clean up” to be ready for the bar to open at 5 PM. During the monsoon we would drink three martinis in 50 minutes since we weren’t driving anywhere and wanted to visit the mess hall before 6 PM.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 12, 2016 @ 4:25 pm

  1867. In 1957, my interpreter and I attended a Korean court-martial of a mid-level Korean officer for an extended period. It was my first time with this interpreter. He was different from other interpreters, overly friendly, and one time caused me some personal concern. Not that much later he was killed. It was a conspicuous murder in Seoul that was meant to attract attention beyond the perimeter fence of our compound. I wasn’t with him at the time, but it certainly got the attention of our translators and other interpreters. My hypothesis is that as a American S/A I was in no danger, but that his murder was intertwined with his working for American counterintelligence. Enough said, although I heard nothing regarding an investigation, if any.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 12, 2016 @ 4:27 pm

  1868. In Oct.- Nov. 1956, Hungarian students started the rebellion against the USSR. The USSR quelled the revolution with tanks and weapons against the sticks and stones of the students. At least this story provided the excuse/reason for the Koreans to stage “spontaneous” sympathy demonstrations. The Associated Press and United Press would be notified after the demos started. Had AP and UP wandered by the area before the demos began they would notice a brown US Army jeep waiting for the start of the moving demo. We knew ahead of time – nothing spontaneous at all. The demos were orderly and always included one group of school children. I called them parades. After weeks of watching pretty much the same thing, my interpreter {George} said that he needed to get to the front of the demo. When I asked why since we never did before, he had no good answer. Nevertheless, I drove the jeep alongside the parade. At each intersection, one of Syngman Rhee’s national policeman would shout at us. George, Mr, Milquetoast himself, would shout back and the policeman would snap to attention and wave us thru. When we reached the head of the line, George had satisfied his Walter Mitty alter ego. He never did anything like that again.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 12, 2016 @ 6:05 pm

  1869. The Veterans Artist Project (VAP) Facebook page now has 900 members. They would like 1,000. Veterans who do any kind of art (painting, photography, writing, songwriting, playing music) are welcome along with non-veterans who want to support veterans’ creative activities. https://www.facebook.com/groups/VAPCommunity/permalink/1852138078355627/

    Comment by Walt Lamberg — December 13, 2016 @ 12:10 pm

  1870. One weekend in 1957 I visited the CIC Inchon Detachment. There was a non-CIC US sergeant in charge of a “Korean fishing boat” with a crew of 2-3 fishermen. He took several of us CICers and his moo-se’-may [sp] along with his crew on a leisurely cruise into the Yellow Sea, stopping at a small island for some sun bathing. We even bought a few fish from a real Korean fishing boat. In reality, the sarge’s boat looked like a typical fishing boat, but had high horsepower diesel engines. The boat was used to run spies into North Korean waters. If threatened, the sarge would turn on the “after-burners” and return to South Korean waters.
    The old issue of sanitation showed itself again. The sarge said that his moo-se’-may had one bowl that she used for everything, yes everything, including use as a chamber pot. Her concept of sanitation was to wipe it clean with her fingers. His health depended on his successful teaching her rudimentary sanitation.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 13, 2016 @ 1:12 pm

  1871. In the summer of 1956, two of us S/As attended the Korean court-martial of the killers of three-star General Tiger Kim* {current transliteration is Kim, Chang-Ryong], head of the Korean CIC. A three-star general, a one-star general, and three others were on trial for the murder of Tiger Kim. The court room needed painting, the floor was heavily worn wood, the seating was rows of benches packed close together, and a railing separated the audience from the business end. Another S/A and I attended on alternate days. In the off day we would get a draft report from the interpreter, review the draft with the interpreter, then rewrite, and retype the report. The first day of the court-martial I was patted down before entering the court room by Korean MPs like everyone else. On that first day, Korean CIC recognized me as US CIC. The other S/A and I were the only ones not patted down after that. At the end of the first day, my interpreter noticed many young Korean men in civilian clothes leaving the court room and getting into the bed of a 2 1/2 ton Korean CIC truck {Armies are the same everywhere]. We felt reasonably safe in future sessions.
    The court room was packed everyday, even with some attendees off the street. One day a woman, obviously from the general population, was one row in front of me and one person to my left. She turned around and stared at me at what seemed like forever. She undoubtedly had not seen a round-eye** up close. I was usually the only round-eye in the room. Another time, an old man siting next to me “hawked up a big oyster”. I knew enough to move my foot or I would have had a big splat on my boot where my boot had been.
    The Korean court-martial was patterned after US courts-martial. The president of the court-martial panel was a four-star general with six three-star generals on the panel. In all, the court-martial involved [in some ways] ten Korean generals – one in charge, six on the panel, one dead, and two on trial. The court-martial continued for months. It became routine and especially routine when 2-3 weeks before the trial ended President Rhee decided they were guilty. Of course we weren’t suppose to know that decision [information from our informants]. Maybe I’m being naive in that if an US 3-4 star Army general killed another 3-4 star general, would the Army court-martial panel make the decision? Perhaps the Army Chief of Staff, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Secretary of the Army, Secretary of Defense, or even the President might make the decision.

    *According to Wikipedia, General MacArthur called him Snake Kim, but we knew him as Tiger Kim.
    **I hope no one is offended by the use of round-eye. Every weekday we made a special trip into Seoul in order to pick up a copy of the Seoul Times, an English language newspaper published by Koreans. When the Korean editorial cartoonists wanted to depict Caucasians, they wouldn’t show round eyes, but rather big noses. Which way is better or worse?

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 13, 2016 @ 1:21 pm

  1872. Reference 1839 and the curfew. I was in the ROK from June 66 to July 67 as a S/A and had no trouble after the curfew all I had to do was show my creds or the card signed by the head of the Korean National Police and I was given a salute and sent on my way. Sometimes I was actually out working after curfew.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — December 13, 2016 @ 10:11 pm

  1873. my experience was the same as yours with the ROK police. we were always in a black jeep, and often were out late because of the meetings with our contacts, CIs. I remember on one occasion my CI extremely ill and we made arrangements for one wing of the hospital at Kimpo to be closed off and an of MD to meet us for testing. I picked up the CI after midnight and we headed off on the drive, approximately 1 hour. the CI had a battery of test lasting 3 hours or more. it was later determined that he had an advanced case of TB. My interpreter and I had been with him almost daily in the enclosed jeep. I was later instructed to go get x-rays and a tine test. my x-rays were clear but the “tine test” popped up like a hornet sting. it turns I test positive but I did not have TB. I went almost every year for about 10 years to ensure I did not develop TB. So as you see, it is not the only the bad guys and their bullets that could get you. the hard part about that trip was the heavy fog going back to Inchon. you literally could not see your hand in front of you nose Reminded me of Monterey Calif. while I was at the Language School. j. bone April 1965 to Aprpil 1966 in Inchon as a S/A.

    Comment by jimmy bone — December 14, 2016 @ 4:22 pm

  1874. You brought back some strange and wonderful memories. I went through basic at Ft. Knox in the summer of 65. I was the last guy in my company to get orders and then it was to USAINTS, FT. HOLIBIRD. I asked everyone I could find Captain, XO, Top Sargent and no one had a clue as to what this was. Finally I asked a Chaplain and he said he would find out for me and 2 days before graduation, he said it was the Army Intel school and that, for a draftee, it probably meant there was a mistake. So after 2 weeks leave, I flew to Baltimore and could not find a bus to Holabird or anyone who knew where it was, finally the 5th or 6th cabdriver I asked, knew. So I ponied up like $7.00 and was dropped at the gate. Here is where my story changes a little. I walked up to the guard house and gave them a copy of my orders, they directed me to a large building a block or so away and told me to go to the office, no ride, I carted my gear down the street, passed several officers and saluted, and got some strange looks. I went into the office, gave them my orders and was directed to, I believe the 3rd floor of the barracks, to pick a bunk, foot locker and wall locker I liked and put my gear away, change into civilian clothes and return to the office for further orders. Still scared shitless, I did as I was told and returned to a Sargent who was grinning at me. He handed me a small pieces of paper, told me it was my “permanent” pass for my time at Holabird and since today was Friday, report outside the barracks at 8:00 on Monday, and try to stay out of trouble. I found some other guys who had just gotten there and we decided to head downtown, someone had heard of THE BLOCK, coming from Chicago, I was confident I could take care of myself and wound up spending the last of my cash buying a stripper a drink. Of course there had been a mistake, I was among the first draftees to be assigned to Army Intel and they had not yet gotten my security clearance so I spent 4 months, not doing much at all, but did have a good time, waiting for clearance so I could go to Analyst school. So as Viet Nam was building up, I spent more than 6 months in AIT and missed Nam because I was a short timer before I was out of school. It was like college without classes, until the end. Thank the Army.

    Comment by Harry Ernst — December 14, 2016 @ 10:35 pm

  1875. In 1956-7, there were many South Korean workers paid by the Army at our Seoul compound – from guards to a carpenter. This doesn’t consider the house boys and mama-sans who did our cleaning and were paid by us. The Lt. in charge of Central Files [it occupied one entire Quonset hut] was the paymaster for the Korean workers. Every month he would visit a Korean bank to obtain the Korean money [won]. The bills were small denominations, so he would return to Central Files with a small burlap bag half full of won. He would spend several days [part time] sorting the won in stacks for each worker. He would leave the sack and stacks on his desk when he left and never worried about those of us who used the files to take any of the money. The Korean bank would always cheat him out of some money. He had the choice of spending hours counting the won at the bank or absorbing the loss which he did. This was the way business was done.
    We GIs mainly needed won to pay our mama-sans and house boys plus some for the papa-san outside our gate to buy souvenirs. There was little else to spent it on. When we rotated out we would give our accumulated stack of won to our mama-san or house boy.
    The official exchange rate was 500 won for one dollar script, 1,000 won for one greenback dollar [it was illegal to have greenbacks], and 2,000 won for one cartoon of Viceroy cigarettes which cost us $1.15 script. We would use the Viceroy exchange rate which was limited to two cartons per week. For those who smoked an individual pack could be bought each day per location.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 16, 2016 @ 9:10 pm

  1876. In 1956 while waiting in Ft. Lewis for a troop transport ship to Korea, we visited Seattle. Two of us were in civilian clothes and one in uniform. A MP car pulled up to the curb. A MP captain and sergeant approached us. The captain told the private he was being given a form 4 for having his hands in his uniform pockets and that it would permanently reside in his personnel file. Not much of a threat. Our attitude was “What can they do to us, sent us to Korea?” Form 4 didn’t have a line to check for hands in pocket even though it had such items as gig line violation. The captain told the sarge to write “hands in pockets” in the comments section. After a pause, the sarge asked the captain “how do you spell pockets?”. After another pause the captain asked the private “how do you spell pockets?”. We felt better after that.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 16, 2016 @ 10:33 pm

  1877. Bernie,

    Thanks again for sharing your interesting exploits while stationed in the ROK. Back on the home front, last night, my family and I were driving around Dundalk enjoying the homes outfitted with Christmas lights and decorations. I decided to take a short detour to what remains of the old post. We rode past the former officers’s open mess building and we saw the revelers inside. It appeared the people there were enjoying the annual holiday party of VVA’ s Post 451. The place was packed and rather noisy. There were cars parked on both Beckley and Van Deman Streets and on the back lot which was filled with vehicles very close to Colgate Creek near where the old swinging pedestrian bridge was located. It brought back old memories. It is great to see that something from our past remains to this day.

    Merry Christmas!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 17, 2016 @ 4:04 pm

  1878. Hi, I was a student there in 63-64. Still remember my first morning breakfast at the Mess when they asked me how I’d like my eggs! “Twilight Zone”

    Comment by Mark Feldman — December 17, 2016 @ 7:23 pm

  1879. One weekend in 1957 several of us decided to hunt pheasants in the ROK. No shotgun was available for me from our quartermaster. The sarge worked a trade with another quartermaster. He would provide two gallons of antifreeze and receive a shotgun for the weekend. I had to make the exchange. When I was walking the denuded small mountain with no sign of any birds let alone pheasants, I thought how dumb can we be for hunting on bare mountainsides that may have unexploded ordnance. I never heard of anyone else that wanted to hunt – smart.

    The US Marines may have had a different policy than the US army toward stealing by the Koreans in 1956-7. As I stated earlier, the US Army seemed to tolerate thievery because the country was very poor. The Marines walked the US military gasoline pipelines. An individual Korean man with a five gallon gas can on his A frame [a wooden frame strapped to the back in which men could carry heavy loads] would steal gas from the pipeline. An investigative report would often be something like the following. The Marine stated that as he walked the pipeline he saw someone ahead of him that was attempting to break into the pipeline to steal gas. The Marine hollered halt and then stop when the Korean ran. The Korean man was pronounce dead at the US Army infirmary.

    In 1957, a friend and I went to Japan for R&R. We went to an upscale dept.store in Tokyo looking for a bra for his moo-se-may. I was amused because he was embarrassed to ask the woman clerk and doubly embarrassed when she asked “what size”. I could only smile at the ongoing discussion. The story/myth is that when US soldiers first went to Korea and encountered evacuees walking on the side of the road, the soldiers would raise their arms high above their heads. The Koreans would respond in kind. Korean women wore a high waist skirt and a short upper top without a bra underneath [traditional dress]. The soldiers stopped this practice when the saggy breasts were no longer that appealing. Probably just a story after a few drinks

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 19, 2016 @ 7:26 pm

  1880. In 2003, the NCICA convention was held in SoCal. Ann McDermott, CNN News, interviewed some attendees for a 2-3 minute blurb on the evening news. I was talking to a former Australian intelligence agent. When we realized the TV camera lights were on us, we stopped talking. Ms. McDermott asked the Australian a question. When he answered with an accent, she politely said that she only wanted American stories. She turned to me and said “You’re too young”. That was a first for me [too young!], but most of the attendees were pre-1950 CIC vets. I ordered a VHS tape from NCICA of the two S/As interviews, but how do you play it nowadays? So much for my almost 15 minutes of fame.

    Although I was not involved and rarely knew what other S/As did, I did find out about the vetting of prospective Korean brides for GIs in 1956-7. CIC did the checking and the US Embassy made the decision. The policy [in some cases] seemed to be that if the Korean woman spent a long time with the GI she would be approved for marriage. If she was a butterfly, then disapproved. Butterfly meant spending short times with GIs. If the Korean woman spent the GI’s tour with him and then a long time with another GI for his tour, she would be approved. Makes sense to me.

    Two of us S/As happen to be in Manila on March 17, 1957. That was the day Ramon Magsaysay, President of the Philippines, died in an airplane crash. When we walked by a city park the day before [Sunday], we heard the cheering of a crowd. When we were told it was a Magsaysay speech, we avoided the area since we did not want to be involved in any possible disturbance. The newspapers after the crash were full of speculation that the plane had been sabotaged. History now indicates that the crash was an engine failure

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 19, 2016 @ 7:29 pm

  1881. Korean women were something special. I was there in 1970 – 1971. Over there, I never met one who wasn’t a prostitute as it was difficult for someone in the American military to meet a non-professional. The word sounds like such a downer. From my understanding, most of these women found themselves in unfortunate circumstances and were somehow forced into it as a way to survive. A small number married G.I.’s and ended up going “stateside”. Unfortunately, few of these marriages lasted. I have read horror stories how some of these jilted women were once again caught in a bind. They found themselves in a position unable to afford the plane fare to return to their country of origin, so they ended up here, nearly destitute with no familial connections. Recently, I read about one who was wandering the streets and ende up being run over by a garbage truck. It is so sad.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 19, 2016 @ 11:18 pm

  1882. As a local attorney who represented any and everyone including domestic relations cases, one afternoon an attractive middle aged Korean woman came into my office carrying a large paper bag. when I inquired what she needed she told me she needed a “divorce” she informed me that her husband was killing her. I asked how and she pulled the largest “sex” toy out of the bag I had ever seen. she said he used it on her every day and I was about to kill her. to cut to the chase, I wrote her husband a letter about the divorce, leaving all the superfluous details out. I was able to get her an uncontested divorce and she moved to her relative and I never heard from them again.. “here is your sign stupid”.

    Comment by jimmy bone — December 27, 2016 @ 7:33 pm

  1883. jimmy(1858),

    “here is your sign stupid” means?
    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — December 29, 2016 @ 2:08 pm

  1884. Happy New Year to Manny, Jimmy B., Jim F., and all the regular contributors!!!

    I look forward to another year of contributions from y’all.

    Best regards,

    Phil O.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 31, 2016 @ 10:26 pm

  1885. Happy New Year to all my Holabird brethren.
    Ed (187)

    Comment by Edward hotchkiss — January 1, 2017 @ 9:24 am

  1886. How dumb do you have to be to earn a “here’s your sigh stupid” but I should have known better. I kept the evidence bag, and from then on I was known as the bag man and all my buddies wanted to see the bag. today being New Years day I wish each one of you a happy new years day, or as it goes in Korean, sae hae, pok mani had u sae o. that is the phonetic version. thanks to all of the contributors. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 1, 2017 @ 3:19 pm

  1887. I must be dumb because it still doesn’t make sense. Is it sign(1858) or sigh(1862). Either way, I still don’t get it.
    Maybe it is a Korean thing?

    Comment by bill leach jr — January 1, 2017 @ 10:40 pm

  1888. sign – how many times do you need to be taken before your learn. she never paid me a dime.

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 2, 2017 @ 10:11 pm

  1889. Pro bono cases for attractive middle aged Korean women can be fun. I get my haircut every month by same and I always enjoy the head massage at the conclusion. There is no double meaning intended here.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 3, 2017 @ 8:47 am

  1890. yeah, but it did not start out to be pro bono. plus, I got stuck for the filling fees to the court. I guess I was supposed to do it that way. lesson number 1+ is always expect to do it for free, and you will never be disappointed if you get paid. well, I guess I’m too deep in the weeds to find my way out of this line of discussion, so as the saying goes, “if the hole gets too deep, quit diging”. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 3, 2017 @ 12:54 pm

  1891. re: 1768 and string.
    Jerry, I was in S-2, 3rd Bn Prov, with Lt Husar, for about 5 months in Bien Hoa from Aug 70 to Aug 71. I was a 97D. Went to the Bi-lat team (Civvies) (next door to the unilat team (uniforms) in Tan An for the last half. I flew with the crew (two pilots and a crew chief) as a courier when I was working at HQ, and many times served as the gunner on the opposite door. Good memories. The crew went down when they went to refuel right after dropping off one of the guys from the Unilat team who was going home. I’ve been to the wall. After VN I was in the 2nd 97B class at Huachuca, and was an agent until I retired in ’88. I was privileged to have served with many of the old timers and am a member of one of the two CIC veterans organizations, ACICV. Thanks to everyone for the comments and the good memories. I never got to the Bird but heard many things about it.

    Comment by Guy Carlsen — January 5, 2017 @ 10:30 am

  1892. Yesterday, an article was published in the Dundalk Eagle about Fort Holabird. I was the main contributor. If you would like a copy sent to your email address as an attachment, please notify me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 6, 2017 @ 6:39 pm

  1893. Holabird Brethern,

    I recently sent copies to several of you who reqested copies of the Ft. Holabird article as cited above. Today, I received a response from one of the above named individuals that they did not receive their copy. If you did not receive yours, please write me at ppstrndr@verizon.net and I will re-send it via a different means.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 12, 2017 @ 3:59 pm

  1894. In Memoriam – Walter “Lute” Lutrey died on 12/16/2016 at age 89. The US Army sent him to Fort Holabird in 1946 where he spent most of his 5 years of military service rising to the rank of Master Sergeant. Although he originally came from Muskegon, MI, he met and married Doris Lee Hale, RN, and settled in Dundalk after leaving the service in 1951. He then began a second career working as a DAC in the DIS and ultimately retired at Fort Holabird in 1983. For many years, he was a member of the Dundalk-Patapsco Neck Historical Society, and serviced as its treasurer before his death.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 13, 2017 @ 1:57 pm

  1895. Dont know why this came to mind now but the references to interview training made me think of something that has stuck with me all these years.In movies and especially in tv police shows, a person is asked ” and what was your(or accused or deceased)relationship with so-and-so?” This makes me cring since the person is not ”related” to the victim or person on trial by blood, marriage etc. at all.” At agent interrogation training that i remember we were told to use the term “association’when we obviously knew that the interviewee was not’related’ to person in question. Am i the only ex-agent who notices this and feels like i do when this occurs? .ben burt

    Comment by Bennie Carlton Burt — January 22, 2017 @ 6:54 pm

  1896. Bennie,

    I still remember to this day, the same way of phrasing the question that we posed to LCRs next DCRs.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 22, 2017 @ 9:06 pm

  1897. Phil, if I’m the “Bill S.” referenced in 1805, yup, I’m still kickin’ butt ‘n takin’ names. Now in the second half of my 82nd year, Maureen (better half for over 56 years) ‘n I still go the mountains of western NC to spend the better part of a week hiking in to see waterfalls and eating GOOD Italian at Marco’s in Brevard.

    ‘Bird 12/61 – 3/62 (Basic Agent + DASE), S/A ’62 – ’64 Buffalo (NY) FO and attached TUSLOG Det 27 (the Corps’ equivalent of Siberia, an ASA unit).

    The Lord’s been good to us both.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — January 28, 2017 @ 9:11 pm

  1898. Bill,

    You are the man, indeed. I am very glad to hear that you and your bride, Maureen, are doing well. I spent a year in the eastern part of North Carolina while stationed at Fort Bragg. Part of that time was at the Fort Bragg F. O. It was good duty doing BI’s for security clearances. I lived off post where I shared a brick rancher with 2 other guys.

    Ref. 1890. In this week’s edition of the Dundalk Eagle, I received some feedback concerning the article where I was interviewed about my experience at Holabird. It seem s that a young woman, named Melany G., grew up on Pine Ave. near one of the back entrances to the fort. She remembers that at shift change, a lot of traffic exited the post and the kids were not permitted to ride their bikes until it cleared. She recalls hearing reveille in the a.m. and the cannon in the evening when they lowered Old Glory. One of the base swimming pools was situated where a community garden is now located. The children on Pine Ave. were upset as they were not allowed to use it. She also mentioned that she knew that there were prisoners housed there during the war.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 28, 2017 @ 11:12 pm

  1899. RE: 1806 and earlier; I think the BRD has finally accepted my identity papers to start search of MFS files for my name, as I was active in Berlin from 77-81 when I retired. Also house on Pine Ave was in the 40s and still is owned be family member. I remember fond times spent there looking in the back gate at the jeep test ramp, etc. Grandpa died in that house as I started 9666 course newly arrived from IOBC at Benning in April 1961. Memories are still there but fading.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — January 29, 2017 @ 3:41 pm

  1900. Bob,

    As you know from your time residing there, the community of St. Helena in the northern section is a quaint one. Many an officer or enlisted person living off base made it their residence. Little cottages or bungalows provided homes, apartments, and rooms that were within a short walk to several of the back entrances of Fort Holabird. Street names like Pine, Elm, Maple, as well as Detroit and Cleveland made up the neighborhood. Whenever I stop by Holabird, I also visit your old stomping grounds.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 30, 2017 @ 5:07 pm

  1901. Since it has been weeks since the last posting (#1897) and giving a reason for Jim’s continued support of same here is a post. What is going on with the current administration and the intelligence community?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 21, 2017 @ 4:10 pm

  1902. LTG McMaster is the right person at the right time to be the national security advisor. Hopefully, he can help heal the wounds between the Trump Administration and the intelligence community. He is also fiercely independent and should be able to select his own staff.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 22, 2017 @ 8:46 am

  1903. Ref. Post 1898 by the venerable Manny:
    I think our intell community is looking at a wake up call by the New sheriff.
    Just for starters look at the former head of the C.I.A. He would not have gotten past you once his B.I was viewed.
    Ed(187)

    Comment by Edward hotchkiss — February 24, 2017 @ 2:37 am

  1904. Ed(#1900)
    “Venerable” beats “late.”

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — February 28, 2017 @ 11:32 am

  1905. Manny(1901)
    I guess!
    Ed

    Comment by Edward hotchkiss — February 28, 2017 @ 9:35 pm

  1906. Guy
    Re: msg 1888 thank you for your response and the info about III Corps…you mentioned associated with a couple of CIC groups…and might have met some of the old timers I believe from III Corps…I just found Mario Fascitelli and have contacted him…do you recall John L. Robinson? was at Huachucha for some classes after VN 1970…would love to get in touch with him, John was OCS/Bird and III Corps buddy. pls excuse any typos and misspellings
    thanks Jerry Smith

    Comment by Jerry Smith — March 12, 2017 @ 1:47 pm

  1907. I notices not much chatter either. I agree with 1900. There are others who wouldn’t get a clearance using the criteria we had back then. It scares me what is going on and how so much is missed in B.I..
    This is what happens when contractors now do what we did. Low bid wins. Without getting into politics we should be talking about this. We have a wealth of experience and information to make relative remarks about what is going on. Does anyone else have this view?

    Comment by Jim Wiles — March 18, 2017 @ 4:17 pm

  1908. Hey, guys…

    One of the most famous graduates of The ‘Bird is covered here: http://tinyurl.com/EarlyBirdGraduate

    Comment by Bill Schulz — March 20, 2017 @ 11:02 am

  1909. Bill,

    This is a nice article about the testing and development of the Jeep, etc. nearly all of the test tracks are gone except for the three that were used to test the vehicles’ hill climbing abilities. They are partially hidden in a clump of trees in the southeastern portion of the fort next to the new ball fields, not far from Colgate Creek.

    Thanks!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 20, 2017 @ 2:36 pm

  1910. Re: 1900 and 1904 – During a recent five year bring up of mine (yeah, there are still some of us who continue in the business, albeit at a slower pace), one of my LCR’s let me know that he had just been interviewed. The LCR is a retired MI 0-6 of our vintage, and when he shared his experience with me, the tears could almost be felt through the phone. The kid doing the interview actually read word for word the questions, caveats and warnings. Later, questioned about his experience set, the “interviewer” acknowledged that he’d been working for the contractor for almost two weeks; six weeks before that, he’d completed his three years as an Army E-4 Wheeled Vehicle mechanic. Any questions as to the degree of difficulty in obtaining a clearance? Or, being the official in charge of “unmasking” operations?

    Comment by John Nolan — March 31, 2017 @ 12:33 am

  1911. Really enjoy finding this site. So many great memories. I arrived at Holabird in early 1968 straight from Ft Dix and had same experience as many others. “Huh?! Is this still the Army?”

    Promoted from E-2 to SGT after 97B Course in spring of ’68; then TDY to Photo Course; then assigned to DCI/FTX where I made SSG (Spring of ’70? … Thank you, LTC Koyama & SGM Carter) and served ’til separation in Sept 1970, as USAINTS was moving to Ft Huachuca.

    My Vietnam Era experience was entirely without drama, and mostly without uniforms, too. I also remember FTX as the best group of guys I’ve ever worked with. We did the job well and had a lot fun in the process.

    HEY! DENIS SPELMAN … I hope you’re still out there. I saw your comments, latest one almost a year ago. This is Bob MacDonald … I married Betty and we’re still together, but her green jumper with the brass ring is long gone. Would enjoy getting in touch with you.

    Comment by Bob MacDonald — April 2, 2017 @ 4:01 pm

  1912. Re: 1907 – Are all BI’s done by contractors now and what gov’t agency is responsible for oversight?

    Comment by Ed Harris — April 2, 2017 @ 5:53 pm

  1913. Been some time since I last visited this site. Reading your comments brought back tons of memories. I did visit Fort Huachuca in the early 80s and I do live in Arizona but not being familiar with F.H. somehow it just wasn’t the same. Keep up the greats posts on here. Best regards to all-
    John

    Comment by John Washington — April 3, 2017 @ 10:46 pm

  1914. Cant recall what “LIDMAC” stood for.

    Comment by John Washington — April 4, 2017 @ 12:04 am

  1915. Wonder how the 97B4 at the Bird and the 35L at Fort Huachuca compare and differ now?

    Comment by John Washington — April 4, 2017 @ 12:20 am

  1916. Loyalty Integrity Discretion Morals and Character.
    (I cheated, I googled it)

    Comment by Jerry McCarty — April 4, 2017 @ 8:56 am

  1917. lol Thanks Jerry. Why didn’t I think of that?

    Comment by John Washington — April 4, 2017 @ 12:55 pm

  1918. I think the “A” in LIDMAC was for “Addictions”

    Comment by Bob MacDonald — April 4, 2017 @ 2:49 pm

  1919. Reading #1911 sent me on a search to find what my old MOS would be called now. It would seem that my old MOS no longer exists or is no longer listed publicly. I guess things have changed a lot in 50 years.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — April 4, 2017 @ 7:48 pm

  1920. Re: #1911 and #1914: How does my S/A MOS from 1956 compare? It was 971.70.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 5, 2017 @ 9:49 am

  1921. I believe 97B40 is now 35L

    Comment by John Washington — April 6, 2017 @ 11:47 am

  1922. Aren’t any ‘old timers’ around. A small group left San Antonio Aviation Cadet Center, and arrived at Holabird in January 1947 – and I remained there until September 1949. Looking for Ted Paine or Payne (left about March 1947 for Hawaii or Japan) and Bob Millslagle who also stayed at Holabird until 1949. Any help locating them is appreciated.

    Comment by Charles Phillips — April 15, 2017 @ 1:11 pm

  1923. Sorry, I forgot to include address, it’s phillipschuck@me.com

    Comment by Charles Phillips — April 15, 2017 @ 1:18 pm

  1924. Hi Chuck,

    Welcome to this site! Unfortunately, I am not one of the old timers having spent time at Holabird from 1969-1970. There may be one or two from the late 40’s who still contribute to the site on an infrequent basis. I encourage them to write to you via this site or to your email address as listed in your latest post above.

    Best regards,

    Phil Ostrander
    S/A 1969-1971

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 15, 2017 @ 2:21 pm

  1925. Hey!
    Any one out there?
    Still looking for any 97C40’s in 68DE9?

    Comment by Jim Wiles — May 3, 2017 @ 11:24 pm

  1926. Jim (1919),
    Yes and still can’t figure out the MOS acronyms.
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 4, 2017 @ 5:05 am

  1927. Manny,

    It is Military Occupational/Occupation Specialty (MOS).

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 4, 2017 @ 2:51 pm

  1928. Re: 1919

    Tried to comment on your post but can’t seem to get it to post. Not sure what 68DE9 is but I’m an old 97C40.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — May 5, 2017 @ 5:28 pm

  1929. I think DE9 was “Defence Against Entry” (lock picking).

    Comment by bill leach jr — May 5, 2017 @ 9:41 pm

  1930. Hi fellow intel vets. I just found this site and have been reading thru all day. I came to Holabird on 20 Jul 68 from Ft. Jackson, S.C. The trip out of Jackson was surreal and I traveled by Amtrak to Baltimore Md where I took a cab to the Bird. The Beatles, “Hey Jude” was playing the whole way in the cab. I had a Marine with me in the cab. The driver tried to shake us down for extra money and as a former NYC cab driver I noticed he had not depressed the “mike” button on his radio as he was “telling” dispatch we would not pay 2 fares. Anyway I got to the housing building and walked up to check in and was told that classes for 97Bravos were two to three months backed up. Was also told that enlistment time was being extended from time of graduation. Holabird was great, first weekend got a three day pass to go home. I volunteered to work in the Admin section because they were short and needed someone who could type. Call me a fool but I was able to get my name on a class roster for 29 Jul 68 and graduated on 8 Nov 68. I got leave and after leave was to report to White Plains FO in Westchester, NY. Later the office was moved to 56 Palmer Ave, Bronxville, NY. Yep, as reported earlier in this blog, the 108th MI Group HQ was at 26 Federal Plaza, 13th Flr, NYC. My father thought I was a deserter because I lived with a girl in Queens where I had lived and was working in civilian clothing. I was ordered to work in the Garden City, LI Office; the Brooklyn Ft Hamilton Office and was sent TDY to Augusta, Maine. I also conducted some special ops investigations at West Point, NY, and was involved in the special ops investigations which were assigned. I had a great time; did some special things and was awarded the Army Commendation Medal upon ETSing at Ft Hamilton, Bkln. Worked in Westchester, NY with local police intelligence units. Was assigned to work on stolen M-16s from the Yonkers Armory; cover demonstrations; and some classified investigations headed by a CWO in NYC. I still have my MI patches which we wore at Holabird and cannot find anywhere. I have my class A uniform with silver brass and the blue cord. I left in 1971 as MI was being phased out for “spying” on civilians. Not a great time for those of us who worked on matters which seemed important to keep America safe. There were terrorists back then; they blew up the main recruiting station in downtown NY. They tried to blow up recruiting stations around NY and hurt military personnel. They were burning; looting and killing people in bank robberies. And we had a little piece of providing intel and assistance to the authorities who could act. Holabird was a blur on my radar scope but it was great. A group of us got a beat up, old, used VW Beatle and used to drive to NY every weekend. It was like being in college. I had a great experience in the Army and have never regretted being an MI Agent. By the way, someone sent me an MI Badge in a lucite block with my name, title, MI Gp, on a gold metal leaf under it. WAR DEPARTMENT US MILITARY INTELLIGENCE. Its on my desk right now.

    Comment by jerry whitmore — May 7, 2017 @ 5:14 pm

  1931. Does anyone remember what “PACPUC” stood for?

    Comment by tc hunt — May 8, 2017 @ 3:00 pm

  1932. reference 1921
    68DE9 WAS THE CLASS NUMBER. THE CLASS WAS IN 1968. WHEN WERE YOU AT THE BIRD?

    Comment by Jim Wiles — May 10, 2017 @ 10:41 am

  1933. I was at the bird from about mid March through November 68. I spent the spring and summer in “Casual Company” avoiding classes and killing Army time. Actually don’t remember how long the 97C40 class was but we finished in late November.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — May 10, 2017 @ 7:18 pm

  1934. Jack (1924),
    Enjoyed your “killing Army time” post. I bet you an EM? And hat is a 97C40 anyhow?

    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 12, 2017 @ 5:02 am

  1935. jack. apologies for this comment in advance. but if you don’t what some of these things are and/or mean you probably don’t need to know, or would not understand if explained. j.bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — May 12, 2017 @ 4:31 pm

  1936. oh. I forgot my MOS 9754L46. holibard, MD Nov 22, 1963(For those of those that do not recognize the date, that was the date JFK was killed. graduated in April 1964, from there to the DLI in Monterey Cal. Graduated in in June 1965, from there to the 8th Army, at 502nd MI Bn, in Inchon, Korea, from there to ASA headquarters in Fort Devens, MASS.

    Comment by jimmy bone — May 12, 2017 @ 8:36 pm

  1937. a second mistake. MOS 97B4L46. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — May 12, 2017 @ 8:36 pm

  1938. A 97C40 was Area Intelligence which was some sort of code for a Case Officer. That translated to agent handler.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — May 13, 2017 @ 12:27 pm

  1939. Hey, found this website quite some time ago. Lover reading many of the stories, as the “Bird” was quite a place. Arrived, June ’69, brand new 2LT, signed up volundef, to get the 9666 school. Arrived broke, with wife and infant daughter, thought the tdy pay was gonna be great, it was, but first month with $188 to my name was a challenge, sympathetic surly SP5 finance clerk got me hooked up. Ended up doing Personnel Security Investigations, for 113th, did CONUS Intel, then got tangled in the mess with “spying on Civilins”, suddenly found myself in RVN with an MOS that no one wanted or needed. Later retread into a PSYOP Officer, that was fun, and then in Reserves as a PSYOP fficer, still run into an occasional exclassmate from the Bird, and we get to reminisce about the Instructors with the heavy Eastern European Accents, and the acting staff who played mind games in the fish bowl.

    Comment by Phillip Meier — May 13, 2017 @ 12:53 pm

  1940. I’ve gotten my “general” personnel records from the Records Center and even got an award I didn’t know about, the National Defense Service Medal, sort of a sop to us schmucks who fell in between Korea and ‘Nam (’61-4 for me).

    Question- How can I get INTC records from my time at the ‘Bird including courses (BA, DASE, etc.) and clearances, etc. I have a DA 873 indicating SECRET but I know I was bumped up to TS/CRYPTO for my work with the ASA in Turkey.

    Shoot, I don’t even have a record of my MOS (S/A with so-so German and DASE certified for ELINT sweeps)

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 13, 2017 @ 9:34 pm

  1941. reference 1930
    Bill,
    If you submitted a request for military records, Form 180 that is about all your going to get. you should have requested your medical records as well as they are important if you are going to file a claim with the VA. A lot of information is contained on form DA 20 which should have been in your records. I used to work part time as a Veteran Service Officer for the National ASsociation of County VEteran Service Officers in NJ for about 5 years. The records from Holibird are not contained in your records you requested. The Form DA 20 is about all your going to get but your clearances and assignments should be there.
    Hope this helped.
    Jim Wiles

    Comment by Jim Wiles — May 19, 2017 @ 2:45 pm

  1942. Thanks, Jim. Pretty much what I’d figured.
    NJ? Where? I lived in Bergen County– Hillsdale for my first four years then Woodcliff Lake into the ’50s when it was off to VPI, nest a three year hiatus, then RI School of Design until marriage in ’60. The next ten years was all over the map Providence, RI;Arlington, VA; “Balmer;” Buffalo; Turkey; Mountainside, NJ, Providence again, until we settled down in NW CT until retiring to “God’s Waiting Room,” Florida, in ’97.
    I’m still waiting and at 82 figure the wait time is getting shorter and shorter!
    Again, thanks for the get-back, Jim

    Comment by Bill — May 21, 2017 @ 3:14 pm

  1943. I just found this article while searching the net. Sgt Rander was a bartender at the 1 2 3 club at Ft Holabird in 1965. One of the nicest human beings I have ever met. I remember reading his story in Readers Digest around 1974. It is long but interesting.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28703-2005May1.html

    Comment by bill leach jr — May 29, 2017 @ 1:15 pm

  1944. Interesting aside: J.Glenn Gray was WWII CIC. Wrote THE WARRIORS, classic study. Just another bit to add to the site.
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 31, 2017 @ 2:14 pm

  1945. It has been awhile since I last posted. I inquired about my 201 file and all I got back was general documents such as my MOS, where I lived, some rifle scores but not what I wanted. I wanted to see my BI related to 97B4. Anyone know where I can get more information? You guys keep the Holabird memories alive for many of us who was at the Bird. Keep up the super fine job. I admire you all.

    Comment by John Washington — June 1, 2017 @ 12:51 am

  1946. it would be helpful if we could include our class and year at Holabird.

    Comment by jimmy bone — June 1, 2017 @ 9:59 am

  1947. Bill Leach,

    Nice article about CWO Gander!

    Thanks

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 1, 2017 @ 2:46 pm

  1948. I was told my dossier was destroyed 20 years after my discharge. I served 1965 – 1968.

    Comment by bill leach jr — June 1, 2017 @ 10:05 pm

  1949. What was the meaning of “PACPUC”?

    Comment by tc hunt — June 8, 2017 @ 6:04 pm

  1950. Today, I received in the mail the MI emblem hat that I ordered from special forces.com. It appears to be of good quality being made of brushed cotton. It is black with the MI insignia being gold and blue. The rather large emblem on the front is three inches high and two inches across. The cost was $19.95 for the hat with an additional $5.95 for postage and handling, totaling $25.90. It has a fastener in the rear so basically fits most head sizes.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 9, 2017 @ 8:24 pm

  1951. from the most news story we have another example where someone did not do a very good job in a bi. i’d like to think most of our generation would have done better than that.

    Comment by jimmy bone — June 9, 2017 @ 9:44 pm

  1952. I was assigned as Project Officer for the final closing of Fort Holabird. I well remember driving from Ft. Meade to Ft. Holabird in early 1973. I met two MP’s at the Ft. Holabird gate and handed them the keys to the post. It was a sad moment for the past traditions associated with post.

    Comment by Jerry Ogles — June 11, 2017 @ 6:07 am

  1953. Hi Jerry,

    You certainly had an interesting assignment in the closure of Fort Holabird. As a lifelong Baltimore resident and a graduate of an Agent class in 1969, I know that you must have had mixed feelings about executing this responsibility. At one time it had such prominence as the HQ of army intelligence and a location where 3000 soldiers and 2000 DAC’s were assigned.

    I have compiled a historical timeline of the history of the post. If you or anyone else out there in hyperspace would like a copy, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 16, 2017 @ 12:34 pm

  1954. A James Rittenhouse passed away. Obit is in Sundays (6/25/17) Cleveland Plain Dealer. Mentions Ft.Holabird, AIS and his CIC service. Some of you may have served with him. Just a FYI post.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 25, 2017 @ 7:20 am

  1955. Happy 4th to all my fellow veterans and especially to those who served at Fort Holabird, both students and perm party. Stay healthy my friends.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — July 3, 2017 @ 5:36 pm

  1956. Greetings. Holabird may have officially closed in 1973. As of December 9th 1974, the day I out processed, our organization was still operating at Holabird. USAIMSO(US Army Intelligence Material Support Office). I believe that in 1975 they relocated to Fort Meade.
    Thanks. Steve

    Comment by steve britner — July 3, 2017 @ 9:00 pm

  1957. Re. #1955. Charles, your name is familiar. I was permanent party at Holabird in 1954 and ’55. I worked in the Headquarters Building as a photographer. Am 85. Might we have known each other?

    Comment by Charlie Larus — July 8, 2017 @ 9:32 am

  1958. Ref1957: Sorry Charlie, I was at Holabird July 65 to Sept 65. I am 71 in 2 weeks. spent time in ROK and presidio San Francisco. Always lived in NYC.
    Your last name does sound familiar.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — July 8, 2017 @ 11:36 am

  1959. Re.1958.Thanks for the reply. Our family was in the tobacco business here in Richmond, VA. I still think we have bumped into each other at some point. Regards.

    Comment by Charlie Larus — July 8, 2017 @ 4:09 pm

  1960. Jerry 1930, we must have been in the same agent’s class as I graduated on the same day in 68. Went to the 108th POD Newark. My report date was Veterans Day and was told by the CQ to go home and come back tomorrow as there was no one there to process me in. Welcome to the field. I ETSed out of Ft Hamilton 2 April 71.

    Vince

    Comment by Vince — July 9, 2017 @ 1:53 pm

  1961. Greetings!

    I was somewhat surprised that there was no mention of our beloved Fort Holabird in this week’s Dundalk Eagle. I emailed the editor about this because she had written an editorial about the history of Dundalk with no mention of our post’s many contributions including:

    U.S. Army Intelligence Headquarters for over 20 years

    U.S Army’s first Motor Transport Training Center/Depot

    U.S. Army’s largest motor vehicle base during WWI

    Center for research & development of military vehicles for over 25 years

    WWII Internment Camp housing German, Italian, and Japanese prisoners until their release after the war

    U.S. Army’s largest signal depot at one point

    Detention Center for Watergate Hearing major witnesses including John Dean and Charles Colson, among others

    These are but a few of the fort’s notable achievements. After sharing a condensed version of the above, Nicole Rodman, Eagle Editor, assured me that she will keep an eye out going forward and always try to inlude any Fort Holabird information in upcoming publications.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 28, 2017 @ 2:21 pm

  1962. Just checking in after a while. I noticed the frequency of posting has decreased. I suppose the youngest of us who were part of the Holabird experience would be 65 or older by now. I hope those at the older end of that group are still in good health. I ran into a neighbor who I have known for 40 years (not well) and found out he was in Holabird in 1962. We had not discussed our past at any detail at anytime in 40 years but our discussion brought me back to this website.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — August 8, 2017 @ 7:20 pm

  1963. I expect we are all getting a little long in the tooth. I will be 77 in November, and was at “the bird” from Nov 22, 1963 until April 1964, and the then to Language School in Monterey, Ca for a year. postings do seem to be getting further apparat.

    Comment by jimmy bone — August 8, 2017 @ 7:40 pm

  1964. I have to agree with the last couple of postings. We are getting a tad older. I have been a faithful follower of this site for many years, but have not posted since 8-17-11 when I recognized a contributor I served with at the “Bird.” (#527) I was on post from May of 1962 until February of 1965. After graduating from the 971 course, I was assigned to the school’s FTX Committee working out of building #1. I was reassigned to the USAINTS Interrogation and Report Writing Committee at the main school building across the Colgate my last six months of duty where I worked in the same office with Al Strappelli, Joe Bandiera and Doris Margoulis. What a group! I kept in touch with them for quite a few years after my discharge. I also served on the school color guard and participated in the retirement ceremonies for General Coverdale and then school Asst. Commandant, Peter Dergis. This past May, I had a nice reunion with an old buddy at Holabird, Ernie Smith. He is retired and living in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. A lot of our group has passed on, but a few of us are still kicking and try to keep in touch.

    Comment by Mike Chiuchiolo — August 9, 2017 @ 10:41 am

  1965. Still here and reporting for duty (albeit a bit slower at 80). Check the site every few days and notice the cohort is shrinking.
    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — August 10, 2017 @ 4:58 am

  1966. Not too many around who spent time at the “bird” in the early 50’s. In those days the agent MOS was 1301 period.
    After the agent course, spent another six months there taking German. Haven’t seen much mention of the language program at the “bird.” Taught German and Russian. My time there was from December ’52 until November ’53. The language program was great and led to my ending my military career in Germany assigned to the State Department to do BI’s (as such) on displaced persons still left in Germany. CIC was pressed into service in late ’54 and early ’55 to expedite the displaced into the US after the Refugee Relief Act of 1953.

    Comment by Bob Mann — August 10, 2017 @ 2:38 pm

  1967. Efrem Zimbalist III, age 71, went through Officer Agent Training in 1969, while I was going through the Special Agent Course for enlisted personnel. His father, Efrem Zimbalist, Jr., star of 2 TV series, The FBI and 77 Sunset Strip, died at the age of 95 at his home in Southern California a few years ago.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 13, 2017 @ 10:00 pm

  1968. How would i go about getting form 20?

    Comment by John Washington — August 16, 2017 @ 10:21 am

  1969. Reference 1968
    John,
    You put in a request on a form 180. You can google it and print a copy. Check the box for All Documents in official military personnel file, Medical records and Other. You can request information on your intelligence training but you will have to specific as where, when, and the organization.
    It took almost 9 months to get my records. Good luck.

    Comment by jim wiles — August 16, 2017 @ 11:04 am

  1970. College on the Colgate, 1969. 97B. From there to 66th MI, 766th MI Detachment, Vicenza, Italy.
    Cold War: not one Sov landed in NJ on my watch, and I never got shot at until I got back to Philadelphia. I do remember that the water tower was labeled “FTA”.

    Comment by Jeff Polaski — August 16, 2017 @ 2:48 pm

  1971. have you seen this? I bought it today
    https://sep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-71031739185994/army-military-intelligence-corps-license-plate-3.gif

    Comment by John Washington — August 24, 2017 @ 9:00 pm

  1972. Re:1911

    BOB MCDONALD. I’m still here and still married to Judy. Forty nine years yesterday. I also still have my Usually Generally t-shirt! Living in Denver, CO.

    Dspelman(at)Kinvarra(dot)US

    Comment by Denis Spelman — August 25, 2017 @ 4:29 pm

  1973. re: 1970 Could use a little more information other than the picture. Purchasing information?

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — August 25, 2017 @ 6:59 pm

  1974. 1972- in arizona we dont have front license plates but if you email me at jwashington@vtc.net ill be glad to give that information to you

    Comment by John Washington — August 25, 2017 @ 8:44 pm

  1975. here you are – if the website prefers not- delete it/
    http://www.militaryframesandmore.com/armiincolipl.html

    Comment by John Washington — August 25, 2017 @ 10:43 pm

  1976. Sorry, MACDONALD. With a name like mine, I should be more sensitive. 🙂

    Comment by Denis Spelman — August 26, 2017 @ 1:32 pm

  1977. VETERANS ONLINE EXCHANGE SHOPPING – effective 11/10/2017

    You may register now, on, or after the effective date. To qualify, you need to go to http://www.vetverify.org and complete a form which takes about 5 minutes. You must have received an honorable discharge and of course a DD214. Discounts could be as high as 10 – 15% cheaper than retail. Purchase of military uniform items will not be permitted. Merchandise selection is wider online than in base stores. We as veterans will still not be permitted to shop in base stores. That benefit is reserved for active duty and retired military personnel.

    Happy Veterans’ Day!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 26, 2017 @ 3:50 pm

  1978. Spent if I recall a week at the 527th MI company in K-town

    Comment by John Washington — August 26, 2017 @ 5:28 pm

  1979. My complete MOS was 97B4LGM3

    Comment by John Washington — August 26, 2017 @ 5:30 pm

  1980. #1972= you are welcome

    Comment by John Washington — August 27, 2017 @ 3:47 pm

  1981. all i got were some personnel files

    Comment by John Washington — August 28, 2017 @ 11:08 pm

  1982. The Korean War Veterans Association in its newsletter {The Graybreads} has discussed the height of the Bando Hotel in Seoul. I remember it as seven stories tall with no fourth floor designation [Korean superstition], so really only six floors. Was the Bando Hotel still around in the 1960s and 1970s? If so, how many stories?

    There was a shop in the Hotel where “bespoke” suits could be ordered from Hong Kong. I put bespoke in quotes since they only did measurements and no fittings during the making of the suit, as was done when we ordered bespoke suits in Hong Kong shops.

    Was the US Embassy still across the street from the Bando?

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — September 1, 2017 @ 10:24 pm

  1983. I’m sure most of you have seen this article, but in case you haven’t, insert the title into your search engine.

    “Buried in backlog, Feds give top-secret clearances to murderers, rapists”
    BY TIM JOHNSON
    tjohnson@mcclatchydc.com
    SEPTEMBER 06, 2017 6:49 PM

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — September 7, 2017 @ 11:29 am

  1984. Would not have happened in our time would it. Gives you some idea of where our government has gone and it is not good. Drain the swamp

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — September 10, 2017 @ 3:21 pm

  1985. we would all like to think we would never let our country or agency get in that shape.

    Comment by jimmy bone — September 11, 2017 @ 10:18 pm

  1986. Cimiglia Park at Fort Holabird – was created and named in 2006 from the remains of a southeast section of our fort. This was part of the Baltimore City Master Plan which sought to protect the Holabird Vehicle Testing Track which was operated by the U.S. Army from 1920 – 1950’s. It was where the Jeep, the Duck, and other vehicles were developed and tested. The track included a variety of different road conditions including a testing hill with 3 gradients including the steepest which was measured at 65 degrees. A National Register of Historic Places (NPS Form 10-900) was completed in 2001 for the Holabird Vehicle Testing Track. Other remnants of the fort in that location, not included in that filing which still exist are the oval test track, now used as a park pathway, and the remains of stairs and a deck area associated with the NCO club swimming pool.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 14, 2017 @ 8:40 pm

  1987. I don’t think its a swamp problem in Washington, its a mole problem.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — September 20, 2017 @ 10:07 am

  1988. # 1969 thanks

    Comment by John Washington — October 3, 2017 @ 6:20 pm

  1989. how about “flaps and seals?”

    Comment by John Washington — October 3, 2017 @ 6:21 pm

  1990. John(1988),
    I don’t get it?
    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — October 4, 2017 @ 4:43 am

  1991. Wasn’t there a course taught about Surreptitious handling of mail?

    Comment by John Washington — October 5, 2017 @ 5:06 pm

  1992. John and Manny,

    “Flaps and Seals” is a spy skill (black bag operation) of being able to open mail (mail manipulation), seals, or secured packages without looking like it was ever opened. It has been used for years by intelligence agencies both here and abroad for many years (Wikipedia).

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 6, 2017 @ 1:21 pm

  1993. thanks #1191

    Comment by John Washington — October 6, 2017 @ 5:15 pm

  1994. we used it in Korea in 1965-6

    Comment by jimmy bone — October 9, 2017 @ 3:36 pm

  1995. This is a little off topic, but FYI. I have no vested interest.

    I suspect that most readers of this blog thread are old duffers [like me], many with BPH [prostate enlargement]. A new technique “UroLift installs permanent implants within the prostate that open the urethra”. One patient stated “It only takes 20 minutes for the local anesthesia to take effect and ten minutes for the procedure itself. I reported to his office at 8:30 am and was back in my hotel at 9:30 AM.”

    I don’t endorse or recommended Urolift, but suggest you consider this technique as an alternative to TURP [my procedure]. TURP requires general anesthesia and an overnight hospital stay, not to mention permanent changes.

    If you want an all-male team for the procedure, you will have to get much more than the staff promise. They will tell you that you have an all-male team and then ambush you during the procedure with females. The staff waits until you are committed with money, effort, and time and then use the excuse “we’re all professionals” during the procedure. Of course true professionals would not promise something and then violate it.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — October 16, 2017 @ 7:21 pm

  1996. Bernie,

    Thanks for the tip!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 17, 2017 @ 12:40 pm

  1997. #1990 Yes, there was a class for opening mail in Area Studies. I thought it was interesting and have used it in the past. Don’t ask why.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — October 19, 2017 @ 9:13 am

  1998. Ref. 1976. Today, I received confirmation from the veterans online exchange that I am eligible to participate as an Army exchange online shopper, effective, Veteran’s Day, 11/11/2017. Please go to vetverify.org, if you are interested. It is open to all honorably discharged veterans. Don’t be discouraged if you have to “jump through hoops” to get there. Despite buying 2 homes through the VA, using VA healthcare, and completing my undergraduate degree through the VA , I still had to send them my DD214 electronically as they could not verify my military service. All in all, it was still worth it.

    Again, Happy Veterans’ Day!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 23, 2017 @ 2:50 pm

  1999. Ref. 1997. An added benefit is there is no sales tax. That adds up when buying big ticket items.

    Comment by jim wiles — October 25, 2017 @ 4:22 pm

  2000. Jim,

    Thanks for the follow-up information. If any of you can remember your in-person trips to the PX, they offer so many department store items at discount prices. As for me, I like anything related to the military, I.e. souvenirs. I realize, of course, that I cannot purchase any uniforms.

    If they say on the vetverify.org website, that they don’t have your information, keep trying. Write me on this website or at ppstrndr@verizon.net and I will be glad to assist you.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 25, 2017 @ 5:06 pm

  2001. Phil,thanks for the tip on the vet px exchange. I applied one evening after reading your post and was verified the by the next evening.Fillig out the form was easy and sending a picture of your DD214 is probably the quickest way for verification.
    Ed(post 187)

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — October 25, 2017 @ 8:58 pm

  2002. Ed,

    I hope your successful experience will encourage more of our brethern to apply and take advantage of this, our latest benefit. We have earned it.

    Thanks very much,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 25, 2017 @ 9:41 pm

  2003. I did not see LIDMAC defined. Maybe I missed it. But LIDMAC stood for “Loyalty, Integrity Morals and Character”.

    Sort of like the joker in every office who made sure that the card files had at least one that said FNU LNU (First Name Unknown, Last Name Unknown).

    Comment by Bill Cowell — October 30, 2017 @ 9:14 am

  2004. I just found this site and cannot find anyone from my era at Holabird. I was there near the end in 1973, assigned to the IRR for “Project Purge” and then assigned to “Operation Homecoming”. Near the end of my duty there the IRR was transferred to Ft. Meade.

    I was a 97-b and just missed the Holabird school. I was in the second 97-b class at Ft. Huachuca. The USAICS experience at Holabird and Huachuca could not be more different.

    Comment by John Swatosh — October 31, 2017 @ 8:16 am

  2005. To all of my fellow veterans. happy Veteran’s day and especially to my fellow Fort Holabird students and perm party. I spent yesterday with six of my American Legion brothers at a local nursing home here in NYC where we put on a short ceremony and had lunch with 50 veterans who are permanent residents there. The vets and staff truly appreciated our visit and we made sure each and everyone of them was given a gift and a small American flag to thank them for their service.

    Comment by Charles goffredo — November 11, 2017 @ 11:52 am

  2006. Charles,

    On behalf of all of our site contributors,

    I thank you very much!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2017 @ 7:30 pm

  2007. Phil,
    And a thank you to you also!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 13, 2017 @ 5:59 am

  2008. Manny,

    It is hard to believe that it has been almost 14 years since your first posting to this site. It has certainly been a long time since your military service began at Fort Holabird in 1955. Thanks for staying with the site and for all of your many contributions over the years.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 13, 2017 @ 9:42 am

  2009. Phil,
    That’s OCD for you.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 13, 2017 @ 6:19 pm

  2010. Manny,

    Maybe, you are just a military history nut like me, except that you have been practicing a bit longer.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 13, 2017 @ 6:56 pm

  2011. I too got on the on line px. I got it all done yesterday am and was in by late afternoon. looking forward to the experience. my wife has already found the things she likes. j. bone

    Comment by james h bone — November 14, 2017 @ 10:36 am

  2012. Arrived at Holabird in September 1962 and fully agree with typical non-military atmosphere – until the Cuban Missle Crisis! They gave everyone Yelliw Fever shots – which are not pleasant. We were told our destination was to be either South Florida or Cuba – with the mission of intertogating prisoners. This would have been interesting since only one person in our team spoke Spanish! Fortunately things calmed down and we got rid of the combat stuff.
    After classes, my orders sent me to the HQs, 66 INTC Group, in Bad Connstadt, just outside Stuttgart. Very pleasant tour, with trips to Austria, Italy, Greece, England, Monte Carlo and France. Never could understand using leave to return to CONUS! Ended tour at 527thMI Company in Kaiserslautern and returned home in ‘65! I remember most of the locations in and around Holabird, especially the Block. I grew up in the South Side of Chicago, so it was not as much of a culture shack as it was to others!
    Since then I have touched base with Larry Thrall & Tom Brooks- who visited while I was living in hawaii.
    All in all, an inteteresting three years out of my life!

    Comment by Hank Koppelman — November 15, 2017 @ 12:58 pm

  2013. it was this day at about this time we first heard about the attack on President Kennedy. I was on a charter bus going from Ft. Jackson SC to Baltimore. the bus was full and one of the guys had a portable radio, and picked up going thru NC and Virginia. we got very quiet and all pondered what was going on and what was next. i’m sure we were all wondering what was next. I know it took on a new dimension for us. although we did not know it at the time it changed our lives. i’ll remember that day and where I was the rest of my life.

    Comment by james h bone — November 22, 2017 @ 3:12 pm

  2014. I have a lot of fond memories of Fort Holabird, most of which are from after it closed as a military base. When my dad was transferred there we lived at the guest house across from the officers club for several months and then we moved to base housing in Cummings Apts, which was military housing at the time. When they closed the fort I was just coming of age and it was like having a play ground several hundred acres big. I actually talked to John Dean when he was being held at the fort and saw Nixon fly in on the Presidential helicopter when John Dean was being held at the Fort. The only thing open at this time was the intelligent school building. I believe that stayed open until the late 80’s.

    Comment by Rob — November 25, 2017 @ 10:34 pm

  2015. Phil,

    A nut, probably? Still practicing, yes.
    Phil, thanks for all you do for this site and keeping us on Post(e).

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 26, 2017 @ 10:19 am

  2016. Mentor Manny,

    It is and was my pleasure. My heart broke when I discovered that they had closed our post and moved most everything to Fort Huachuca, AZ. Being a native Baltimorean and a former special agent, it made the whole thing especially difficult.

    So again, I extend the invitation to you and others reading this post, although we are at this time, a bit “long in the tooth”, and distance separates most of us, come see what is left of our grand old fort.

    I can be reached at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Phil Ostrander
    97B40
    Class 69-B-16

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 26, 2017 @ 2:20 pm

  2017. thanks for the invite. lord willing I may get there this next year. maybe i’ll still have a “tooth” or two.

    Comment by james h bone — November 30, 2017 @ 10:33 am

  2018. I first posted on this site back in November 2004, 13 years ago. Post number 8. It seems like only a few years ago. Then again, it seems only a few years ago I was stationed at Fort Holabird. It was actually 52 years ago. (June 65 – June 68). Every once in awhile, I go back and read some of the old posts and I can almost smell the old place. A typical night would start with the early movie at the post theater and the the NCO Club for a snack and a few beers. We would end up at the Holabird Inn and would usually end up closing the place. The next morning (hung over)we would say that we were going to bed early that night. We never did! By the end of the month we were living on “chit book stamps” at the NCO Club.
    I had a great interesting job, met some great friends, and was lucky enough to spend all my time in the service at Fort Holabird.
    I know a younger man who spent a year at Fort Huachuca and he knows almost nothing about Holabird. It is sad to think that the only thing left of the old Post is our memories and all that will die with us.
    I posted a 8mm movie of the Post on Youtube about 10 years ago and I still go back to watch it when I get the urge to reminisce.
    I love this site and hope we keep it fresh and going.

    Comment by Bill Leach — December 3, 2017 @ 10:55 pm

  2019. Fort Holabird lives! Although, I admit it is gradually disappearing. I also love this site and look at it on a regular basis.

    Some of the remaining artifacts include:

    *The Officers’ Open Mess, currently the VVA Post 451, 6401 Beckley St., open to veterans on Fridays and Baltimore Ravens’ game days. A M551 Sheridan Tank is permanently located out front.

    *Portside Apartments, former Cummins Apartments, Dundalk Ave., and formerly base housing for officers and EMS

    *Tank Hill which contains 3 jeep test tracks located in a small wooded area in the southwest part of Cimaglia Park at Fort Holabird

    *portions of the original street grid including Portal, Tributary, Beckley, and Van Deman Streets remain

    *Colgate Creek and the B&O Railroad tracks remain as they were back in the day

    Off post, the Holabird Inn (now the Travelers Lounge), the Keystone Inn (currently Phillips Restaurant), and a greatly expanded Squires’ Restaurant, all on Holabird Ave. remain.

    Finally, there is a permanent marker, honoring the post on the corner of Holabird and Dundalk Aves. It is titled “Camp Holabird” and was erected by the Maryland Historical Trust.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 4, 2017 @ 11:09 am

  2020. after this comment I am more resolved than ever to return to one of my favorite places on earth.

    Comment by james h bone — December 4, 2017 @ 2:36 pm

  2021. after that Monterey at the language school

    Comment by james h bone — December 4, 2017 @ 3:24 pm

  2022. etterretning, wacolinksinc,
    nanonextnl http://www.nanonextnl.com/

    Comment by nanonextnl — December 7, 2017 @ 11:42 pm

  2023. well I don’t know about you, but I feel like I back in Baltimore today. it began snowing early am before dawn, and it is still coming done fairly heavy and consistent. the trees have snow on the branches, my deck is covered, my car has a blanket about 3 inches thick on my car. the roads are ok so far but temps are going into 20’s overnight,

    Comment by james h bone — December 8, 2017 @ 11:25 am

  2024. 24 hrs later and still snowing. probably most snow I’ve seen since Korea.

    Comment by james h bone — December 9, 2017 @ 10:54 am

  2025. here we are on Dec13 at 3:00 and I still have snow on my Deck and in the woods. roads are clear and temps are rising. just thankful no loss of heat or power. Good is good. Sorry for those who had it worse, but thankful for our blessings. I promised myself I would not complain about the weather here after Korea in 1965-1966. and I’ve tried to keep that promise. thanks for all of you guys. keep up the communications.

    Comment by james h bone — December 13, 2017 @ 4:05 pm

  2026. still have small patches of snow in the woods, and on my deck

    Comment by james h bone — December 16, 2017 @ 12:35 pm

  2027. Ladies and Gents, brothers and sisters in arms, as I get ready to close for the holidays, to each and every one I send to you the best wishes for a safe and happy Christmas and a blessed holiday to you and yours. Merry Christmas.

    Comment by james h bone — December 23, 2017 @ 9:02 pm

  2028. Merry Christmas , Happy Holidays and a happy and healthy New Year to all of my fellow veterans who were at Fort Holabird. A special shout out to all active duty personnel stationed here in the Us and overseas.

    Comment by charles Goffredo — December 24, 2017 @ 12:26 pm

  2029. Merry Christmas to all Holabird grads in the 97, 96 MOS group…9666, 9668. Those were the days..we were a special breed.

    Comment by R. Fowler — December 25, 2017 @ 8:19 am

  2030. I was sworn in the USAF in June of 1966, after delayed enlistment. Driven there from Millsboro, Delaware, where I still live. From there to the airport and winding up at Basic Training at Lackland AFB, Texas for basic. As for many of us, it was a little scary in those days, not knowing what we were in for. I enjoyed the reading all the comments. (Bruce)

    Comment by William B. Carmine — December 26, 2017 @ 5:55 pm

  2031. And a happy, healthy (you can our age) New Year to us all.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 30, 2017 @ 5:36 am

  2032. well, its that time of year, where one ends and another begins. hope each of you had a great 2017 and are looking forward to a happier ad more prosperous 2018. ha ha. most of us are only looking forward to 2018. in all seriousness, hope all of you have a safe, happy and wonderful new year. or as we say in Korea, sae hae pok maey had u sae o. phonetic since this thing will not let me type in Korean.

    Comment by james h bone — December 30, 2017 @ 12:46 pm

  2033. I was happy to find this site back in its customary place after an absence of several days. Happy New Year!

    Comment by Bob Fox — January 12, 2018 @ 12:46 pm

  2034. Happy New Year to all Veterans of Fort Holibird. Glad to see this site restored.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — January 12, 2018 @ 3:02 pm

  2035. 2014 and 2015,

    Ditto and thanks to Jim and Phil.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 12, 2018 @ 3:07 pm

  2036. Thank you Phil for your work in getting this site back on-line.

    Comment by Bill Leach — January 12, 2018 @ 11:41 pm

  2037. Guys,

    It is great to see you back on the site again, however, please give credit where it is due. Jim Flynn is the man to whom we should give our thanks. He is the originator of this website. I am but a big fan only since 2013.

    Thank you Jim!!!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 13, 2018 @ 10:50 am

  2038. Thanks to everyone who had anything to do with the restoration or recreation of this site. thank you very much, and I surely have missed it. thanks again. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 13, 2018 @ 4:35 pm

  2039. All I know is that our site seemed to have been hijacked and could not figure out why.
    Phil, could you or someone fill us in on the details of this abduction?
    Many thanks for the restoration of our Holabird Home.
    Ed(187)

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — January 14, 2018 @ 2:15 am

  2040. Ed,

    I am viewer and frequent contributor only. Please check with Jim Flynn on abduction details. You should be able to reach him at: Jim@parkwayrestop.com

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 14, 2018 @ 1:15 pm

  2041. Ref.2021
    Thanks, Phil.
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — January 15, 2018 @ 12:27 am

  2042. Phil,ref 2021.
    System would not accept,receive the email you provided.
    I did not possibly alter name, I just clicked on the info you gave me.
    Regards,Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — January 15, 2018 @ 5:14 am

  2043. Good morning all.

    I’m the person responsible for the SNAFU that ended up with this page going away. I own the server and host the site, and I often move the site to different servers, usually without disrupting availability.

    In this instance, I missed a crucial step, and only verified that the main page was available, and not this one.

    It was a technical error made by someone who should have been paying better attention, and if it happens again, feel free to contact me directly: csprout -at- gmail -dot- com, and I’ll get things taken care of.

    Comment by Craig — January 15, 2018 @ 9:57 am

  2044. all’s well that ends well. thanks for all your hard work, sacrifice, and dedication. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 15, 2018 @ 3:09 pm

  2045. Guys,

    I have 50 interesting historical photos, mostly black and white, some from WWII. If interested, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 16, 2018 @ 10:42 am

  2046. Craig,

    I echo Jim Bones’ comments. Some of described this site as an old friend. Thank you Craig!!!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 16, 2018 @ 10:46 am

  2047. All,

    This site psychologically represents a significant period of our collective pasts. I think?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 17, 2018 @ 6:14 am

  2048. not to speak of our lives. well, here we are again on another snow day in Georgia. about 2-3 inches on the ground and about 4- 5 on my deck and roadway. no traffic on roads that I see or hear. temps in teens with wind chills 0 to -5 around here today. another memory of Korea. memories that seem to flood back into my mind, except in Korea w had to get up and to. things to do and people to see. if like last time snow will be in the woods for 4-5 days.

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 17, 2018 @ 12:28 pm

  2049. Jimmy,

    Ditto with my experience in Korea. From the writings above, it appears that a significant number of our brothers also served in the ROK, one of the best assignments for MI personnel.

    Ditto as well with the snow today on the ground at the Fort Holabird Industrial Park, although the accumulation there was closer to one inch.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 17, 2018 @ 1:43 pm

  2050. i was originally stationed at Inchon, in the Inchon Field Office. About halfway thru the tour, the OIC or someone above him decided we needed to move to ASCOM for security reasons. Was classified as a Liaison officer working with ROK Army Intelligence, ROK Police Intelligence, and others. Planed, equipped, trained and supported operations. as such spent several trips on the 8th Army Boat Detachment, docked in the Inchon Harbor. easily the best assignment in MI. as i said before I spent 3 years in the Army. First 8 weeks of course were Basic Training at Ft. JACKSON SC. next 6 months at FT.. Holibard Md, then to Fort Ord CA, at Language School for 1 year, then to Korea for 13 mos, and finally back to states at Ft. Devins Mass, ASA Security. there was never a dull moment in any of those places. I got more than I deserved, one of the best educations anywhere for essentially 18 mos of service. Yep, they gave me much more than they got. appoligies to Ma. Klicker for tpiing and spelling. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 17, 2018 @ 2:28 pm

  2051. After 2 years of training at Fort Holabird, agent school and photo intell. training, was told to report to S-2 to get my orders to go to Vietnam, with one year left on my enlistment. Fortunately, for me, they changed it to Korea at the last moment. Spent a very short time at 502nd MI BN in Seoul when I asked to be transferred to the field. My CO, Major Norton, had me transferred to Taejon where I ets’d to return to college on a 2 month early out. The ROK was the best kept secret in overseas MI duty. Got my BA at UMCP. Spent over 40 years in the HR field and left 4 years ago for retirement. Now, here I sit, 30 minutes from Fort Holabird, writing you this note.

    Phil Ostrander

    Guys – please write a short paragraph on your experience to continue the thread that Jimmy Bone started.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 17, 2018 @ 3:57 pm

  2052. Phil,
    Left a few of my experiences (see numbers 1, 75, etc.). I like your idea.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 17, 2018 @ 4:33 pm

  2053. As Many said, let us keep it going. I have often thought that it would be a good idea to have a short bio on each one of us. Who is next?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 17, 2018 @ 6:49 pm

  2054. Manny,

    Sorry about misspelling your name. I can Ms Klicka admonishing me.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 17, 2018 @ 6:51 pm

  2055. Ref 2034: Good idea Phil. Rather than take up more space I have a bio that I
    Submitted about 9 years ago when I first stumbled on our site.
    It is entry 187.
    Thank-you.
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — January 17, 2018 @ 9:22 pm

  2056. Ed,

    I think that you and Manny have hit on a great idea. Why should we re-invent the wheel. It would be a lot easier and more of a space-saver to take the suggestion that you two have offered. However, if someone would like to go the route of Jimmy B. and me; that could be an option as well. Compromise…

    So, who is next?

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 17, 2018 @ 9:58 pm

  2057. Phil,
    A bio (vita or resume) going beyond our service time would be very interesting as we seem to be an interesting group. If all agree?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 18, 2018 @ 6:08 am

  2058. Manny,

    I agree, however, if the space on this website is too limited, in what format would these bios be published or presented?

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 18, 2018 @ 8:35 am

  2059. i admit i can be a bit of a prima donna, but if we talk about after army life, i went back to school. ga state university, degree in business mg, secondary in accounting and finance, the on to emory law school, graduated and admitted to bar in 1973, practiced until 1992 when i was appointed bankruptcy trustee for northern district of ga, and worked there until i retired 2007. still do limited practice cannot get around and thus am not able to attend court unless i hire someone to move me around in wheelchair. just thankful to be alive.

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 18, 2018 @ 11:16 am

  2060. as they say never give a lawyer a shot at speaking or writing. last forever.

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 18, 2018 @ 11:17 am

  2061. Thanks Jimmy! Who would dare to be next?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 18, 2018 @ 1:37 pm

  2062. While spending the summer of 1955 working as a park ranger in Yellowstone National Park, my IA draft board caught up with me. I had to drive to Bozeman, MT, then ride the bus to Butte, MT for my pre-induction physical. After Basic at Camp Chaffee [became a Fort in 1956], I attended the agent’s course at Ft. Holabird.
    After a tour at Seoul Hq., I obtained a two week early release to teach high school math in IA for one year before packing my bags and heading for CA. I spent my career in computer software development, all in SoCal except for 18 months [1963-4] in Germany [Idar-Oberstein and Weisbaden].
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — January 18, 2018 @ 6:54 pm

  2063. Bernie,

    Thanks so much! O.K., who is our next guest?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 18, 2018 @ 7:35 pm

  2064. i like this format. we have the ability to learn more about each of us . great experience. don’t know how long the space will hold up.

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 18, 2018 @ 9:23 pm

  2065. Here goes. Went to Kent State University, yes, that Kent State!(B.S.,M.eD, Ph.D.) on Korean GI bill. Taught at Ball State, Kent State and John Carroll University. Spent many years as a clinical psychologist in medical settings and private practice and writing (books,articles and a weekly newspaper column) and consulting. Married going on 58 years, 2 grown-up children and five grandkids. 81 years old and only mildly age-related dementia (now you all the errors in my posts). That’s an M-1 thumbnail sketch and if you remember what an M-1 thumb is you as old as me.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 19, 2018 @ 3:32 pm

  2066. Please add “know” between the “you” and “all” in the above post (see what I said about ARD).
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 19, 2018 @ 3:35 pm

  2067. Manny,

    Thanks so much for your addition to the website! I have submitted emails to several of our regular posters and as a result expect to see more bios shortly.

    Guys, I only have an undergraduate degree, acquired later, also on the G.I. Bill, so please don’t feel intimidated by our more educated and professionally experienced brethern. Additionally, I think that I was the only guy in my Agent Class without a degree.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 19, 2018 @ 5:43 pm

  2068. I graduated from a trade school and was called for the draft. When an army recruiter called and said I qualified for Army Intelligence, I laughed. As my draft date grew closer, the recruiter persisted and Fort Holabird sounded great. Viet Nam was just a news clip on TV every night and not much of a threat. I was told I would be an agent and wear civilian clothes and live the life of Riley. I bought it hook, line, and sinker.

    I went through test after test and many interviews and finally took the oath.

    After basic training, I got orders for 97D, Intelligence Coordinator. I wasn’t 21 so I couldn’t carry a side-arm in civilian clothes. So I couldn’t be an agent. It was the only rule they couldn’t wave.

    I’m glad the way it turned out. I spent 3 years working in S-2 Troop Command at Fort Holabird and it was a great job.

    When I got out, I was going to work for the government checking the security at civilian (GE, Raytheon, etc.) sites but the pay for union cabinet-makers was so much better I couldn’t pass it up. After 44 years, I retired and I think I made the right decision.

    I loved my time at Holabird and have so many great memories of my time there. I met some good people and had a ton of interesting experiences connected with my job.

    I didn’t have the education but some how I pulled it off.

    Comment by Bill Leach — January 19, 2018 @ 11:17 pm

  2069. Brief bio: POB: Vermont. Moved to Arizona in 1959 where I finished high school in Tucson then on to the Univ of Ariz for 7 years majoring in science and a foreign language. After getting my M.Ed (master of secondary ed), I enlisted in the Army (ours) in October of 1968 and did basic training at Fort Ord, Calif. Then on to the Bird in January 1969 and by June of that year I was in Germany,living in Maximiliansau and working on Smiley Barracks in Karlsruhe. 97B4LGM3. Discharged in Sept of 71 I spent the next 30 yrs teaching high school science and a foreign language. Retired from teaching in 2002 – what a ride.

    Comment by John Washington — January 20, 2018 @ 1:54 am

  2070. I was a special agent like many but never carried a side arm. Our badges were locked in a safe and I didn’t see mine for 2 1/2 yrs.

    Comment by John Washington — January 20, 2018 @ 1:57 am

  2071. Bill Leach and John Washington,

    Thanks very much for sharing your stories! They are both educational and interesting. One thing I remember hearing was that we who attended any intelligence MOS school were there because we passed a series of screening tests that they average G.I. could not.

    As a special agent I never carried a side arm, however I did brandish my B’s and C’s when doing B.I.s stateside.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 20, 2018 @ 9:46 am

  2072. Entered the army in Jun 68 and took Basic at Ft. Ord (A-5-1). Went straight from Ft. Ord to Ft. Holarbird (I had taken a German language test in Basic) and 3 months later had an MOS of 96C2L29. From there to Munich, Germany where I was assigned to the 66th MI Group, 18th MI Bn, field station Berlin.
    Upon arrival in Berlin, I was assigned to JROC (B)…Joint Refugee Operations Center as a German language interrogator. Didn’t see a uniform again until I separated from the military in Ft. Wadsworth, N.Y. (It was regulations then that all MI personnel separate in CONUS. Two days later I was back in my office at JROC as a civilian interrogator. Loved every minute of almost 9 years total there.
    In 1977, returned to college at San Jose State, CA and majored in International Business. Upon graduating, returned to Germany as Marketing Manager for Wilson Sporting Goods. In 1989 was recruited by Bridgesrone Sports, Japan as General Manager – Europe. Finally, in 1992 was head hunted by Acushnet Company (Titleist and FootJoy) and spent the next 23 years as General Manager for Continental Europe and VP for EMEA (Europe, Middle East, Africa). Retired in 2015 until the refugee crisis hit Germany, then volunteered to work with BAMF (Bundesamt fuer Migration und Fluectlinge) in the asylum process…..similar to what we offered Cold War refugees escaping from Eastern Europe.
    Soory for the length of this rant.
    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — January 21, 2018 @ 4:36 pm

  2073. Gary,

    Thanks again for posting. Gary still lives in Germany, of course. Danke Shoen!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 21, 2018 @ 6:05 pm

  2074. Bitte schoen Phil.

    Comment by Gary Miller — January 21, 2018 @ 7:23 pm

  2075. Long paragraph, I know, but here goes:

    My military started in the VPI Cadet Corps when it was about 1,800, 95% Corps and just a smattering of civilians (1952). We learned marching and rifle drills really quickly (or got royally “chewed out.” Hazing! Hazing!) along with military bearing and courtesies. But mostly we learned esprit d’ corps. Took sabbatical for a few years in the middle and graduated Rhode Island School of Design in ’61. The cadet training stood me in good stead when I got sucked up by the draft in the Berlin Crisis later that year. I was old for an inductee (26) but the VPI training immediately got me out of a lot of crap as an assistant squad leader. Got recruited by INTC while in basic at Ft. Jackson. Entered The ‘Bird in late November of ’61 for B/A and DASE courses. Then to Buffalo where I was doing backgrounds and a NIKE site penetration attempt. I busted their security big time and was soon offered a “pass O-1, go directly to O-2” from Region… which I declined, having only 19 months before EOE (end of enlistment). THAT dumb mass move got me a trip to Turkey for the rest of my tour… essentially being labeled as a “lost cause.” Still with B&C in civvies, tho’. After my 12/64 out, worked as a corporate industrial designer a few years then struck out on my own as a consultant ’til we retired, moving from NW CT to central FL in ’97. Going on 83 in good health (?) and looking forward to next big move to eternity.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — January 22, 2018 @ 8:58 pm

  2076. Bill,

    Thanks so much! Yours is one of the many very interesting bios posted here in the past week.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 22, 2018 @ 10:15 pm

  2077. Don’t mean to be a hog or worrywart, but i am trying to reach out to some members of my class at Holibard. MOS
    97B beginning Nov 22, 1963 and graduating April 1964.
    Would love to find someone in that class that would be willing to communicate with me via e-mail, snail mail, or phone. I remember one of my bunk mates went to see the Beatles at NY while we were there. Another was named “Cotton” and was from Ala. i believe. any help will be appreciated.

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 25, 2018 @ 9:32 pm

  2078. Jimmy,

    Over time, I have read all of the postings since Manny’s first one on February 12, 2004. During these readings, I did not notice anyone with the last name of Cotton who listed their email address in their posting.

    You may want to list your email address on your next posting on this site.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 25, 2018 @ 10:14 pm

  2079. as best i recall Cotton was a young black male whose name is the same as a judge who i knew.

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 26, 2018 @ 11:53 pm

  2080. sorry e-mail jhbone@att.net. thanks

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 27, 2018 @ 10:29 am

  2081. Manny’s e-mail (as per suggested): ma1936@aol.com
    Good idea Phil (I hope). Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — January 27, 2018 @ 3:40 pm

  2082. Manny,

    I think so as I have listed mine on this site at least ten times over the last 4 years.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 27, 2018 @ 5:25 pm

  2083. I,ll try to be brief. Was a butcher in NYC , went to Army recruiter, Sgt tried to get me to go meat inspector course(yes army had a school for that). Said wanted to go into law enforcement, Signed up 3 years, Holabird 97D, 502nd Korea 19 months at Battalion Hqs. Came home got married off to 115th MI Group Presidio San Francisco with my bride(thank you Uncle Sam for the one year honeymoon.Hit 21 MOS change to 97B and assigned as permanent night duty agent for the group. Great job. Home to NYC. became NYPD cop, and after a brief patrol assignment, into Organized Crime Bureau, where I stayed for the rest of my career. Went to St Johns University under GI Bill. Also became a Real Estate Broker and retired 10 years ago. Loved Intelligence Corp.

    Comment by charles goffreedo — January 28, 2018 @ 1:57 pm

  2084. Guys,

    We have had 10 responses to our request for updated bios. Thank you to everyone! Summarizing the information for Fort Holabird graduates from 1/18/2018 to the present is as follows:

    * five attending basic training at Fort Jackson, SC
    * four served tours in South Korea
    * four served tours in Germany
    * two attended basic training at Fort Ord, CA
    * one served in Vietnam

    The important thing is that we all came through the experience safely and better for it. Some of our MI experiences were described as follows:

    * “the best damned time I wished I had started earlier. I’d do it all over again.”
    * “I think that we all had something special at the ‘Bird’ to remember especially the unique caliber of men we served with there”
    * “I loved my time at Holabird and have so many great memories of my time there. I … had a ton of interesting experiences connected with my job.”
    * “I got more than I deserved, one of the best educations anywhere”
    * it “was the best kept secret”

    Thanks again for the memories!

    Phil
    Class 69-B-16

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 28, 2018 @ 10:21 pm

  2085. Guys,

    If you haven’t submitted yet, your bios are still welcome!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 29, 2018 @ 9:34 am

  2086. Just another addendum to my 2056 post.

    I realize that I never had a “Holabird experience” other than having classes in fatigues and graduation in my “greens.” (I never even had to buy Sp4 or SGT E-5 stripes.)

    I missed out on the camaraderie you guys all mention because I lived off-post with my bride. Maureen stayed in Arlington while I “vacationed” at Jackson (at age 26… tough for an ol’ coot to keep up with the “kids!”). After basic we moved to Eastern Blvd where we holed up until having finished B/A and DASE courses when we moved to Buffalo, NY.

    Then, off to Ankara where we lived on the economy and I did the 40 click to/from Site 23 by contract Mercedes O-321 bus out in the puckerbrush. Facilities built/maintained by the Tumpane company. Turkish Tumpane drivers for GOVs off-site.

    Strange, “Uncle” sent my car over but wouldn’t pay M’s PanAm ticket over. Go figure that one… or maybe not, typically army.

    Oh, and all I ever carried was my creds. B & .38 stayed in the office.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — January 29, 2018 @ 9:24 pm

  2087. Hello,

    I recently came across this site and just finished reading all the posts. I was commissioned a 2LT from the University of Illinois ROTC program in February 1967 and received my first choice of branch – MI. I was assigned MOS 9309 – Aerial Surveillance Officer. All MI officers had to first attend the Infantry Officer Basic Course at Ft. Benning, Georgia. After that, I attended the Aerial Surveillance Officer Course 67-AS-10 at Fort Holabird from 6/5/67 to 10/10/67.

    My memories of Ft. Holabird are vague after 50 years, but the one thing that sticks in my mind were the delicious crab cakes in the nearby restaurants. I rented a basement apartment from a Greek lady in one of the Dundalk row houses and walked to class. There were 17 officers in my class, including a female marine. I later found out that one of my classmates was an advisor in the Phoenix program to neutralize the Viet Cong infrastructure and later had to testify in the My Lai investigation. I thought it odd that the Army would train a person for over four months in a photo interpretation course and then assign that person to the Phoenix program that was completely unrelated to this training.

    After Holabird, I was ordered to Vietnam and was assigned to the 1st MI battalion (Aerial Reconnaissance Support), aka 1st MIBARS, a unit of the 525th MI Group, in Detachment B in Da Nang for four months and Detachment C in Can Tho in the Mekong Delta for nine months as an II (Image Interpretation) Officer. The battalion was instrumental in identifying Russian missiles in Cuba during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis.

    As a REMF (Rear Echelon Mother F_____), my Vietnam duty was relatively safe. Other than the random nightly rocket attacks in the city, the closest we came to combat was during the Tet Offensive. The ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) I Corps headquarters compound in Da Nang, where our detachment was located, came under attack at 3:30 on the morning of January 30, 1968 (50 years ago today) by a reinforced VC company. Under cover of darkness, with covering fire by mortars, about a dozen of the enemy using ladders and boards, crossed the outer wire and climbed over the compound wall into the courtyard. They fired rockets at the ARVN headquarters building near our operations area. ARVN units engaged them, and the fighting within the compound continued for about three hours until daylight when the VC were killed off.

    When we arrived at work that morning, the fighting was still continuing outside the compound wall. Helicopter gunships were flying over our heads firing rockets directly across the wall from us. We got out of our jeeps, grabbed our helmets and rifles, and were assigned defensive fighting positions along the wall. Gradually, the firing died down as the VC were routed. They lost a total of around 125 dead in their failed operation. Their bodies were laid out on the helipad directly across the street from our operations area where local villagers could view them for a day or two before they were taken away. Apparently, the purpose was to send them a message about collaborating with the VC.

    The Hue detachment of our parent organization, the 525th MI Group, consisting of special agents, was not so fortunate. It was overrun and its members were killed or captured. Here is the Silver Star Citation for Robert E. Hayhurst who was captured and escaped. He attended Fort Holabird from September 1966 to January 1967.

    http://www.veterantributes.org/TributeDetail.php?recordID=1754

    I extended my tour in Vietnam by 39 days in order to take a 3-month early out of active duty. I had a four-year reserve obligation after that but the Army never asked me to attend any meetings.

    After the army, I went back to college and received a MS degree in Economics and Accounting and became a Certified Public Accountant. I live in Denver and retired in 2015.

    You can read more about 1st MIBARS on these web sites:

    http://military-intelligence.wikispaces.com/1st+MIBARS

    http://1stmibarsinvietnam.org/

    Comment by George Zervos — January 30, 2018 @ 7:51 pm

  2088. Born in Atlanta Georgia, 1940. moved to Villa Rica, GA in 1942-43.Raised in Villa Rica. attended public school in Villa Rica, Graduating in 1958. moved to East Point Ga 19 1958. Worked City of East Point light and water dept. for 2 years. After that Worked at Kroger Stores. Went into army 1963 with a friend. we both wanted to go to flight school, but he did, i did not because of deafness in right ear. the father of my next door neighbor was the Sgt Major at the recruiting center Atlanta. Knowing him, got me introduced to a recruiter at Ft. Mac. after my interview, i was given a battery of test. took several days as i recall, including one for language skills. was then sent to basic training. given some of the best advice i would get. Thrust the AIS people, and no one else. following basic at Ft. Jackson SC, then on Nov 22, 1963 went to Holibard. yes that was the day Pres. Kennedy was shot. ie was a sobering event,
    Holabard and Ft. Jackson were polar opposites. The education at the Bird was very important. Taught a lot, most by the Staff at Holibard. Never ask leading questions, elicits concise information. pay attention to posture. always make sure you have all the information you need. i.e. conditions, lighting, tides, etc. and as Louis Gizzard says, “Shoot Low boys, they are ridding Shetland Ponies”
    Following Holibard, 1964 (April) loaded up everything we owned and drove cross country and started Language School at Monterey Ca. (Korean) one year. Following that in April, 1965 was sent to Korea. first to 8th army in Seoul, then on to Inchon. what an active time and place to serve. we had 4 agents plus Agent in charge and 2 support staff.was lucky because i could type, and typed all of my own reports, many of recommendations for the OIC. was there when North Koreans sent a commando team south, tried to infiltrate an honest john base on Sea of Japan, 4 young black men decided they wanted to “renounce their US Citizenship, stay in Korea with their significant other, and set up their business. needless to say, that was not the way it played out. all 4 agents had to work around the clock to get to the bottom of it. had to satisfy Congressional Inquiry in short time. also had an incident of attempted infiltration of firebase down on the coast. that one came about midnight. i was selected from among the agents because of my language training. took a short trip on the USAS Report. Following my Tour in Korea was returned to Ft. Devins Mass at the ASA training center. even there was not quiet. had to do follow up BIs on students at the school, involved in many Polygraph’s to resolve questions. One student who had been to Alaska for a tour, fell in heat while at school, and decided he did not want to go, and got out his personal weapon and held his significant other hostage, threating her
    and anyone who tried to help her. because my wife and i lived in the same apartment building, i was given the honor of talking him out. i did and it was quiet for the rest of my time except for the full court press to get me to stay. promised the son, moon, stars and anything else, including a boatload of money. My wife was ready to come back home, after following me to California and Mass,
    after discharge returned home to start college September 1967 Georgia State College. Degree in Management, with additional core in Accounting and Finance. Graduated in Sept 1969 and Started Law School at Emory Law School in Atlanta. Lived in Villa Rica and worked for The Georgia State Patrol at night Graduated in 1972, passed bar and began practice in 1972 continued until 1992 when i was appointed as a Standing Chapter 13 Trustee in Atlanta. Commuted back and forth to Atlanta until 2007. had a serious accident in 2007 that resulted in significant injuries. retired and am working part time from home. am in a wheelchair most of time, and cant get back and forth to court. still try to be active to the extent possible. sometime i wish i had stayed in, but can’t un ring the bell. as i have said before, i got more from this man’s army than i gave. wonderful experience. i carried my ID and Badge, as well as my side arm. at times had a M-14 while in Korea, and B&C at Devins. and the only time i had a sidearm, was the incident with the berserk student.

    didn’t meant to be soo wordy. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — January 31, 2018 @ 1:58 pm

  2089. Bill and Jimmy,

    Thank you for your supplements to your original postings.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 1, 2018 @ 8:45 am

  2090. I previously entered response #145. In case anyone knew Col James Anderson Roosa, 1939 West Point Graduate, he his wife, Katie, and I were classmates at DLIWC studying Romanian in 1966-67. He was subsequently assigned to Bucharest as Military Attache. Jim died in 2005; and Katie passed away 2 years. RIP

    Another good friend and former classmate in college, Paul Plum died this past year. He was stationed at the 525th in Germany in the mid 1960’s.

    Yes, we are all aging gracefully but will never forget our experiences at that little known post called “The Bird”.

    Comment by Tony Wirkus — February 1, 2018 @ 5:20 pm

  2091. Tony,

    I am very sorry for the loss of your friends. Thank you for your update to #145.

    Best regards,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 1, 2018 @ 6:30 pm

  2092. In 1956, we did practice surveillance in downtown Baltimore. Our instructor [the subject] went into a hotel. The lead student was to follow him, but didn’t. I rushed up to my fellow student and asked why didn’t he follow? He replied that it was a restricted hotel and as a black he couldn’t enter. I rushed in and ran smack dab into the instructor coming out of the hotel. It was obviously a lesson in what could go wrong. The instructor gave us a good evaluation.
    In the early 1990s, I visited the fellow student and future special agent. He was now Dr. Myer Titus, President of Philander Smith College in Little Rock, AR.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 1, 2018 @ 6:58 pm

  2093. in 1964 we were still doing it in Baltimore. oh the mess we got in occasionally. wrong way up down elevator , wrong way on one way street. hook up with a hooker, and that was only the beginning. j. bone

    Comment by jimmy bone — February 2, 2018 @ 8:08 pm

  2094. In 1969, we continued to do FTX’s in Baltimore City. There were several large department stores in the downtown area. We were banned from entering one of them, Hamberger’s, due to the complaints about.agents running in and out or the store.

    In 1970, when I returned for an FTX for Photo Intell. School, we spent another day downtown. This time, we were told to take pics of any topic of interest. We spent hours taking shots of young women on the streets in the business area.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 3, 2018 @ 9:59 am

  2095. Entered Holabird after two years as a recon guy, originally destined for the 97C course, but assigned upon arrival to 68-B-20 in June 1968, followed by a year of Vietnamese at Fort Bliss. Phoenix Program in III Corps followed another assignment in Viet Nam to 5th Special Forces Group in the Delta; then 115th (Los Angeles) and 902nd (Carlisle Barracks and Army War College), Czech Language School and subsequent assignments as a Case Officer (OBF Frankfurt, 430th and Det A, US Army Operational Group) through to retirement in 1988 (CW4). Meanwhile, BA International Relations (Mt St Mary’s), MA, International Relations, (USC) and MS Administration (Central Michigan). Founded Phoenix Consulting Group providing Business Intelligence support to International and domestic businesses, as well as training and consultative services to US Intelligence and Special Operations communities, grew it to 550 professionals and ultimately sold it in 2010 to a much larger government contracting firm. Founded, financed and still Chair of The ELM (Expect Little Miracles) Foundation, providing housing, educational, employment and other support to assist those who are interested in breaking cycles of poverty and/or dependency on government en route to self-sufficiency. So very, very grateful to the IC for 40+ years of working with the very best men and women in the Nation!

    Comment by John Nolan — February 3, 2018 @ 11:21 pm

  2096. John,

    Thanks very much for your bio! I think that you have had a life filled with extraordinary accomplishments. We have quite a successful group of individuals who have participated in this bio update forum thus far.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 4, 2018 @ 12:50 pm

  2097. From graduation in 1952 from Brown University and enlisting in CIC to a sixteen week basic and advanced infantry basic at Indiantown Gap Military Reservation outside of Harrisburg, PA, I ended up at the Fort. In those days I was in the 1301 agent classes for the first months and then for the last six months in the German language program. The latter was tailored to agent use in “interviews.” This German program was really great and the instructor, Captain Rothchild, was memorable. Spent the rest of my enlistment in Stuttgart with Region I of the 66th.
    Aside from B&C’s, I only wore a side arm once while on the trail of a real honest to goodness spy.
    The last part of my stay in Germany was working on the Refugee Relief Act of 1953. CIC was pressed into service to do background checks on displaced persons still in the area. I had a young German university student as my leg man to do the BI’s and I did the reports. Good duty.
    Left the service in 1955 and went into the business world in Canton, Ohio, where up until a couple of years ago until arthritis got the better of me, I was active in the not for profit community and during the turmoil of the 60’s headed the local region for the National Alliance of Businessmen,helping to find employment for the unemployed and underemployed.
    My experiences in the CIC have been memorable and worthwhile.
    I’ve attended a few of the ACICV reunions and am sorry that age has caught up to me and made it difficult to attend future ones.

    Comment by Bob Mann — February 9, 2018 @ 4:20 pm

  2098. Phil: This is about as short as I can make it. Posting #1723 on the BIG RECORD is a more lengthy version.

    1947 – Basic training, Ft. Dix. N.J. 1948 – 1950 ; (31st Infantry Regiment) Seoul and 38th parallel, Korea; 1950 -1952 , Ft. Monroe, Va.; 1953-1954 – Fairbanks, Alaska; 1955 – 1956 -Ft. Devens, Mass. Camp Drum, N.Y.; 1956 -1957 -Greenland; 1958- 1959 -Tobyhanna Sig Depot, Pa.; 1959 -1960 – U. of Scranton ROTC, Pa; 1960 -1961 – France (Poitiers) Signal Supply Control Agency ; 1961 – Ft.Holabird, Intel School ; 1961 -1966 108th MI (Syracuse/Ithaca, N.Y, 527th MI ( Baumholder, Germany) 111th MI (Ft. McPherson Ga.) 25th MI Cu Chi, Vietnam ;March 1968 Holabird – Retired
    l968-1973 – Work and School. GI Bill Education B.S., MeD, MeD, Gifted and Talented, Upscale hair stylist (no; I’m not); Drummer, Fronted dance & jazz bands, Teacher, Curriculum generator middle school science subjects, gifted students, (130+ IQ) Atlanta, Cobb County, Gwinnett County, Ga.
    1992-2010 – Teach digital/film photography @ schools and clubs; teach percussion, travel with dear wife and poodle to various national park photo ops
    2010-2018 – Sell out all collected junk in large Marietta, Ga. home and join son and family in Pearland, Texas to enjoy grand children, nap, eat, drink, travel and generally screw off.
    ?
    Sincerely – A tip of my hat to all of the fine former agents who I either met, worked with/for or passed in the
    world airports heading towards the best damned time I wished I had started earlier. I’d do it all over again.
    God Bless!! Dave Mitchell

    Dave is having computer problems so I took the liberty of posting his bio via my comment name.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 12, 2018 @ 10:22 am

  2099. makes me feel like i didn’t do my fair share for all i got in return.

    Comment by j. bone — February 12, 2018 @ 12:17 pm

  2100. Dave Mitchell (via PhilL.

    I noticed your background in the area of gifted and talented. What I wonder where on the continuum the group on this site would fall?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 12, 2018 @ 1:26 pm

  2101. Make that “Phil”. Old fumble fingers strikes again.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 12, 2018 @ 1:27 pm

  2102. I just recently discovered this site and have enjoyed reading the posts. I was drafted 3/51. Infantry training at Ft. Riley. Received a high score on my ASVAB. Was recruited for Holabird although with only one year of college. Requested first the 17th CIC Detachment, Trieste and second, The Presidio, S.F. which is where I was assigned doing BI in Northern Ca. Capt. Tanaka liked my writing skills and began having me do re-writes of other agent’s reports. I requested and received a transfer to the L.A. field office where I continued with BI along with some other interesting special assignments, all in civvies. Wore my uniform for discharge at The Presidio. Started my own business on a shoestring in 1959 which has now completed 58 years and still growing, now run by a son. DeanIndustrial.com. I am 88 and still get to the office a time or two each week. I remember Holabird fondly and the skills I developed there have served me well. I gave my country what it asked of me as well.

    Comment by Dean Sigle — February 12, 2018 @ 8:36 pm

  2103. Should have said 115th CIC Det., The Presidio

    Comment by Dean Sigle — February 12, 2018 @ 8:39 pm

  2104. Ref 2034 and 2035.

    Manny,

    We are even friend!

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 12, 2018 @ 8:42 pm

  2105. if Dave was at Ft.Mac in 1963, August – Sept 1963 he could have very well been the Agent that interviewed me and signed um up for MI. Does the Shadow know? small world

    Comment by j. bone — February 14, 2018 @ 2:36 pm

  2106. Phil,
    We be!
    Manny

    Comment by Manny Adle — February 23, 2018 @ 12:15 pm

  2107. Phil,

    At an “a” to my name.

    Comment by Manny Adle — February 23, 2018 @ 12:16 pm

  2108. Another great thing about CIC is that we were treated as professionals when working. We were given an assignment without specific directions and without supervision. My bosses [a lieutenant and a captain] never asked me why something took so long, where did I go, why did you do that, etc. I’m an average writer, but the bosses never criticized my writing or content.

    I was stationed in Korea, but made it to Japan about six times and was always looking for an excuse to visit. I asked the captain if I could attend a religious retreat [US Army sponsored] in a remote location in Japan. The captain said that if I wrote a biography on Yi, Ky Pung [“house speaker” of the Korean legislature] I could go. YI was also the house boy of Syngman Rhee when Rhee maintained a Korean government in exile in Hawaii. I found an existing bio in Central Files and just retyped it. This obtained me the week in Japan. One of the analysts made a comment about the quaint writing in one paragraph [which I had also noticed, but was too lazy to rewrite]. So I guess I did get one criticism.

    At the religious retreat, we were required to attend several hours per day in retreat activities, but free the rest of the time. One day three of us walked to the local village. We decided to purchase some fruit and take it to the ice cream parlor at the retreat. The Japanese young lady at the ice cream parlor cleaned the strawberries we had selected and only charged us for the ice cream. We invited her to eat some of the strawberries, but she declined. The Japanese are good people.

    All prices at the outdoor market were in Japanese numbers [Japanese and Korean numbers are the same]. When the cost of the strawberries was the same as I had stated before we bought them, my new buddies were doubly suspicious that I wasn’t a company clerk. For the next time, I developed a cover story that I was a clerk typist in the Seoul Main Post Education Center. Although I had a teacher’s certificate, I thought that a clerk typist would allow me to say I was in the background and wouldn’t have to discuss any courses that someone might have attended.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 2, 2018 @ 6:52 pm

  2109. Our compound had a PBX. {For you young guys: A PBX (private branch exchange) is a telephone system within an enterprise that switches calls between enterprise users on local lines while allowing all users to share a certain number of external phone lines.}

    At one point, a private from the motor pool was selected to be the PBX operator. One day a caller asked for Col. Sam Dahl with a slow southern accent. When the private replied that there was no one here with that name he was returned to the motor pool. Our commander was Lt. Col. Samdahl [surname]. Then the other extreme. Gerry C., analyst, was the replacement. He was a summa cum laude grad of UC Berkeley. He was also a typist. He would take the typed orders to the adjutant, a captain, who would put down his comic book to sign the orders. In his next assignment the captain was a sergeant. Gerry’s idea of entertainment was to read a book on his bunk with a bottle of wine and a cigarette dangling from his mouth.

    We had several sarges in administration that had been officers in previous lives. One captain was so disliked by everyone, including other officers, for his nitpicking that the rumor was spread that he was the only officer in the Army that went thru WWII as a lieutenant which I don’t think would be possible. He was good at chewing out soldiers, but was lost when a prisoner escaped his interrogation one time [Or so the story goes. It happened before my arrival].

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 2, 2018 @ 6:55 pm

  2110. Re: 1891
    Guy–was in unilateral team at Bien Hoa from Nov. 70 to Jan 71. After that worked in S3 at Bn Hq at Bien Hoa. Had you already gone to the field by then? I can not remember your name from the S2shop next door to the S3shop. I did chopper out to a number of the teams in the field, such as Tay Ning and Xuan Loc. You remember any names from 3rd Bn Hq?

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — March 4, 2018 @ 2:34 pm

  2111. My father was a 30 year man who retired as a CWO4 in 1974. His retirement at that time was a last minute decision which was due to the most favorable benefit he would receive of having the cost of living (cola) increase in retirement pay. After he retired, there were several years when he received double-digit percentage increases in pay.

    I mentioned in previous comments that my dad went through the enlisted agent’s course in 1948. After that the went to the Army Language School in Monterrey for a year. His first assignment in CIC was in Kokura, Japan in 1949. He would remain in the Far East until 1955 when he was reassigned to Detroit. During his Far East tour, he spent almost a year in Korea in the 1951-52 timeframe.

    After Detroit, we received an assignment to Denver where we stayed from March 1957 to July 1961. During that time, my dad was stricken with a respiratory ailment in which he was treated at Fitzsimmons Army Hospital. He was actually on an in-patient and convalescence status for over two years.

    From Denver, we moved to Hawaii where my dad was with the 401st INTC Detachment. His duty assignment was in the Schofield Field Office so much of his work at that time was the 25th Infantry Division. JFK was president during our stay in Hawaii and when he visited the state, personnel from the 401st were used to augment the Secret Service protection detail so my dad had to draw his trusty .38 snub-nosed revolver for that duty.

    In November 1965, my dad was sent to the 526th MID in Okinawa. My mom and younger brother joined him there during the summer of 1966. As for myself, I joined the Army in February 1966 and after basic was at Holabird from May to September ’66 as part of 66B-24 taking the enlisted agent’s course myself. The family remained in Okinawa until July 1969 when my dad received orders for Vietnam. Prior to going to Vietnam, my dad had to go to a two week orientation class at Holabird. Think of that being sent from Okinawa to Holabird just for two weeks.

    He eventually went to Vietnam in September 1966 and was assigned to the 135th MI Group working out of a field office in Saigon. I never asked him what he did there and the thing was, he never asked me what I did with the 524th MID when I was there in Vietnam from October ’66 to October ’67. Guess the main thing was that neither of us was injured and probably did not do anything of significance during our respective years in RVN.

    From Vietnam, my dad was sent to Hawaii, again with the 401st. Not long after returning to Hawaii, he became part of the initial DIS Hawaii Office along with three agents from the Naval Investigative Service. After a couple of years, my dad retired from active service and after about a year was able to get back with DIS as a civilian. He worked there for about 13 until he retired for good in 1989 at the age of 65.

    More later with what I did with myself.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — March 9, 2018 @ 11:31 pm

  2112. Wayne,

    Thanks for a great report on your father’s military service. I look forward to hearing more of your own. This brings to mind another mini-project that we can contribute to the site. Most of us have fathers, brothers, uncles, and sons that have served In the military. Why don’t each of us compose a piece concerning their service. I can think of no better way to honor them. I will provide that of my dad’s within the week. Thank you in advance for your contributions and your family’s service to our country.

    Thanks again to all of you who posted a composition on your own service, education, and retirement activities.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 10, 2018 @ 10:00 am

  2113. how powerful such stories are. i know you are very proud you are of him. i can tell from your accounts. i expect the stories of our fathers, uncles, brothers are much more calm than mine. my father entered the navy after Pearl Harbor attack. was injured in basic training and discharged. he worked at the Marietta Ga. Bomber plant, and then as a truck driver, which he did for the rest of his life. my uncle, my mothers brother went into the army in 1941 and served until the end of the war and came out as a sgt. he was in the south pacific, and never said much about it. his son, my cousin into the Army during the 70s and came out as a WO ll. fairly mundane compared to most of you guys. all of whom at e my heros.

    Comment by j. bone — March 12, 2018 @ 5:04 pm

  2114. My father, Phil, Sr., served in the Army Air Corps from January 1943 (age of 20 years) to December 1946 as a flight officer, 2LT, and 1LT, during WWII. He graduated from the Army Air Forces Pilot School at Turner Field, GA in June 1944. He flew most of his overseas missions out of Darwin, Australia as a member of the 380th Bomb Group, 5th AF. This included 33 missions, nearly all of which where in B-24 Liberators. He earned the Air Medal for Meritorious Achievement in the SW Pacific Area for bombing missions against enemy installations including shipping and supply bases. He saw action over Pelau, Saigon, Vietnam, Legazpi Port, Philippines, and Canton and Shanghai, China. He successfully completed his missions and returned to his home in Baltimore to marry and start a family. He passed away in 1999 at the age of 77.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 15, 2018 @ 1:45 pm

  2115. My father entered the army in early 1944 and landed at Utah Beach 90 days after D-Day with the 94th Inf…part of Patton’s 3rd Army. He made it as far as the Battle for Ludwigshafen in the Rhineland, where the 94th took heavy casualties. The war was over for my Dad as a bullet entered behind his left ear and exited through his right cheek, virtually destroying his jaw bone. He was medivac’d to England until the European Theater war ended. He earned the Bronze Star and Purple Heart and other medals during this time. He did not like to talk about his wartime experiences, so I don’t have any more detail than this. After the war, he joined the USAF and had duty as Sgt, Maj. of the 22nd Bomb Wing at March AFB (where I was born), at SHAPE HQ in France and with Air Force Intel at Tempelhof Air Base in Berlin. He was one of a few Air Force career personnel who wore the CIB on his dress blues. He retired from the military after 25 years service.

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 19, 2018 @ 4:23 pm

  2116. all the stories give me chill bumps. i know you are all so grateful and thankful. lest we forget, that was the “greatest generation”.. CONGRATULATIONS to you and your families. too bad the generations of today will not fully appreciate the sacrifices made. Also, not to be forgotten is the generation between then and now, Korea and Vietnam. what horrors they endured. and now to this youngest generation, and they still keep coming. Iraq, Afghanistan, eat. al. America is truly the Patriot nation. Thank you, God Bless you, and may God continue to bless America.

    Comment by j. bone — March 20, 2018 @ 12:46 pm

  2117. Happy Easter and /or Passover to all of my fellow veterans and their families.

    Comment by charles Goffredo — March 31, 2018 @ 5:59 pm

  2118. Charles (2089),
    Thanks.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 1, 2018 @ 8:18 am

  2119. Holabird Veterans:

    As most of us are in our seventies and eighties, a good philosophy of life on achieving the Seven Dimensions of Wellness leading to happier and healthier living should include the following:

    Physical Wellness – Keep moving and eat well
    Intellectual Wellness – Challenge your mind
    Emotional Wellness – Do what makes you happy
    Spiritual Wellness – Live with meaning and purpose
    Social Wellness – Stay connected (especially with those on this website)
    Vocational Skills – Share your skills with others
    Environmental Skills – Commune with Mother Nature

    Happy Easter and Happy Passover my Friends!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 1, 2018 @ 4:48 pm

  2120. I was that “the Bird” from May ’63 until Apr ’63 assigned to USAINTC Hdq G-2 as a lowly Intel Coordinator. After Holabird I worked for Lever Bros as a sales rep. Then I was employed in retail management for 11 years with Woolco Department stores in MD and PA. In 1982 the stores closed and my family and I moved to Spokane, WA where I grew up. My wife is a Baltimore native. After some sales jobs here I was accepted into the training program to be board certified as a hospital Chaplain. I retired in 2008 after 16 years at Providence Sacred Heart Medical Center in Spokane. The last four years I was the chaplain to the Heart Transplant and Mechanical Heart program. In 1994 I was ordained as a permanent Deacon in the Catholic Church. My life is very rewarding and I have feel that even my time at Holabird was influential in my becoming a chaplain

    Oh, and Phil, I do try to follow the Seven Dimensions of Wellness.

    Happy Easter and Happy Passover..

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — April 3, 2018 @ 4:41 pm

  2121. Dan,

    It is nice to hear from you again. I trust that you are still living in Spokane. You are one of several Holabird grads that married a Baltimore native. Besides me, there is Jim Hahn, originally from Terre Haute, IN, Chris Blackman, originally from California, and Walt Lutrey, originally from Muskegon, Mi, among many others. Jim convinced his bride to relocate to Terre Haute, whereas, Chris and Walt remained in big B. Coincendentally, I heard a homily, during mass one Sunday years ago from a priest who was a former special agent. I approaced him after the service and we had quite an interesting conversation.

    In the meantime, do you have a story that you could share with all of us about someone you know who was in the military during WWII like was done in 2083, 2085, and 2086.

    Thanks for sharing your story.

    Stay well,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 3, 2018 @ 6:10 pm

  2122. Reference to post #196 by Don Marikovics — December 7, 2009 @ 2:18 pm. I was in the same 97B class in 1968; Don and Walter Fisher were from the NYC area and I recall going up there with them on at least one weekend. We three also had some weekend adventures with some of the local ladies (but the details are a blur). When the orders for our class were posted, all but two of the 50 new agents had assignments to APO NY duty stations in Europe (I went to the 207th MI Detachment at Kelly Barracks just outside of Stuttgart). The two “unlucky” souls with APO SF assignments went to Honolulu (they were both senior NCOs who had already done tours in Viet Nam – SFC Robinson was one). Hard to believe that 50 years have gone by since then.

    Comment by Steve Clark — April 3, 2018 @ 9:52 pm

  2123. About 25 years ago, I was walking the DC mall wearing a cap with the spook symbol. A guy recognized it and started a conversation. He had been CIC and was a PhD retired college prof. who was now teaching sailing. I’m not sure if he was WWII. CIC recalled him years after his active duty for an assignment as a major general. He showed me the MG ID card that he retained. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised at his keeping the ID since we kept our Dept. of Army Civilian ID card. This was our cover before S/As wore civvies in Korea. Of course it expired at our release from active duty.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 4, 2018 @ 11:24 am

  2124. Just wondering if Gary Helgunseth {Comment #45) is still out there reading this site. I think we may have been in the same 97C class.

    Comment by John Widmaier — April 4, 2018 @ 4:08 pm

  2125. Just found this site. It really brings back memories! Hoping that some I worked with or anyone that might have known them can let me know of their current status/location.

    I went thru the 9666 course March-June, 1968 at Holabird. Went to Camp King in Oberursal where I was commander of the USAEUR Interrogation Center, also known as the Interrogation Company of the 513th MI Battalion. We moved to Munichand merged with the 66th MI Group a couple months later.

    As a draftee I could have gotten out of the army at the end of that tour but volunterred for Viet Nam and went thru the 9668 course at Holabird on the way. Served as a Phoenix Advisor in the Highlands and extended for an intelligence collection job in Saigon.

    Later served as Deputy Commander for Operations of the 766th MID in West Berlin. I would very much like to hear from anyone that would know about any of the following:

    Rudy Wolter- my 1st SGT st the Interrogation Company
    Steve Biro
    Major Larry Royer
    LTCc Frank Anderson
    John Scott Rackham
    Walter Thompsom
    LTC Richard Lindsey
    Victor Kastelanski (SP?) later at JROC, Weat Berlin
    Walt Thompson
    Mr Isserman
    As far as after the army, I got my MS degree at Kansas State University and My Doctorate at Oklahoma State University–used up ALLl of my GI Bill! I then coordinated international programs development at OSU and retired in 2004.

    I hope to hear from anyone I worked with or anyone that might know what happened to them. Was great to read about Holabird and brought back many memories. Thanks.

    Comment by Glade Presnal — April 7, 2018 @ 6:09 pm

  2126. Folks,

    The following is an portion of an email sent to me by Bill Schulz, Holabird S/A graduate and a frequent contributor to this website. He asked me to post it so we could request that Charlie Brown post his experience in summary form on the site.

    Talk about DOUBLE coincidences! More on that later.
    I was fueling up at a station on SR 11 ‘way out in the puckerbrush of far western SC. Chap on the other side of the pump peered around and said he liked the color of my FIAT (chiaro verde). We got to chatting ’bout our experience with FIATs and he mentioned having driven from Balmer to some place while he was in the army.
    You from Baltimore? says I.
    No, I was at school there.
    Says I, “Holabird?”
    Yep
    Spook?
    Yep.
    Turns out he was there in ’69 and thence to Nashville (?), TN.
    I asked if he knew of the website and he said he did but hasn’t posted anything. I told him to do just that.
    Now for the coincidences- First, what are the chances I’d meet another former S/A out in the woods? Second, what are the chances of your sending these pilots’ stories today. OK, no co-ink-a-dink (Jimmy Durante-ism) there … EXCEPT that the guy I met is none other than… brace yourself, Charlie Brown, same as the “Fort” driver mentioned in the subject line!
    Funny thing is, I got a ball cap embroidered with “USAINTC S/A” and wear it a lot along with the INTC shield lapel pin and I’ve yet to get a “hit.” I wasn’t wearing it although it was in the back seat.

    Those interested in hearing about former 2LT Charlie Brown, WWII Aviator, please google his name coupled with the name Franz Stigler. It is well worth viewing about WWII comraderie across enemy lines.

    S/A Charlie, if you are out there, we would very much like to hear from you.

    Best,

    Phil O.
    Former S/A
    4/1969 grad.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 21, 2018 @ 9:35 pm

  2127. RE: 2903
    I had been on Parkway Rest Stop a few times, but had never posted. I met Bill Schulz this weekend for the first time. He had encouraged me to make contact.

    After basic training at Ft. Benning, Ga. I arrived at “Fort Ha Ha,” totally unprepared. It was early March 69, and I had left my car and clothes behind. Fixed that problem the following weekend.

    It was a good time in my life, among some really great group of guys. One of my fondest memories, was the Memorial Service for Gen. Eisenhower. We were required to be in dress greens for inspection, prior to the service. I had a bit of a problem. A few of us had been out the night before and lost my car in Baltimore, that contained my dress shoes. With the encouragement of my classmates, and like any good southern boy, I put on my “wingtips.” The parade would be full of soldiers, and no one will notice my shoes.

    Brown starts with “B” and that means front row. The Master Sgt. had trouble catching his breath, when he put his beet red face almost touching my nose. “What are those” he whispered. I looked a down and then looked back at him a said “Florsheim.” After a long pause, he walked away and never spoke to me again.

    Our class, 97-B-69 graduated that Augusta, a couple of days before Woodstock. Missed the festival and got married instead.

    From Baltimore to Nashville, TN.(Field Off. 111th MI Gp.) for a year and then to Waycross, Ga. (Field Off. 111th MI. Gp.)

    Three good years and the GI Bill. What more could one ask?
    Bless you all!
    Charlie Brown, S/A 8/69

    Comment by Charles Allen Brown — April 24, 2018 @ 10:05 pm

  2128. Thanks to the efforts of Bill Schulz, who sent my email address to Allen (Charlie) Brown, we were able to secure his story for the group. Charlie, thank you for forwarding your information as I copied below.

    Phil,

    I was able to find the graduation program for Class 69-B-26 Counterintelligence Agent Course. The graduation was on 12 August 1969.

    It was the “luck of the draw” for both duty stations. Nashville was still a small city and our Regional Off and Field Off were in the same suite. Our office building was occupied by many of the music businesses, who were good people to be around. Waycross was basically a one man Field Office, covering 19 counties in south Ga. It was as much a liaison office as background investigation, not to mention very good bass fishing in the swamp with the locals.

    I had enlisted on a “delayed entry” program in early Sept. 68, to insure that I would be 21 years old at graduation.
    How that plan worked out is beyond me. I was born 30 June 1948. I was discharged 6 Nov 71, as the MI were reducing personnel.

    I entered the Architectural School at Georgia Tech, studied in Paris a school year, and graduated 11 Jun 77.
    After a few years in Augusta, we moved to the mountains of NC, where I am still practicing architecture in Cashiers.

    Thanks for allowing me to share my limited service with the community.
    Allen (Charlie Brown)

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 26, 2018 @ 9:27 am

  2129. Anyone have a record on my Grandfather O.G. Griffin? He would have been cira prior to 1914 (my father’s birth year).
    Thanks.

    Comment by Donald GRIFFIN — April 26, 2018 @ 10:28 pm

  2130. the North Avenue Trade School is not a bad place to go for that study. Congrats.

    Comment by j. bone — May 1, 2018 @ 10:01 am

  2131. Hope everyone is enjoying this weekend. I realized it was 50 years ago I was in the Area Studies class at Fort Holibird. How time goes by.

    Comment by jim wiles — May 26, 2018 @ 10:55 am

  2132. Reference Tony Wirkus post 145. Just rereading posts and came across yours. Said you attended agent class starting Jan 66. Did you graduate on April 22? Class 66-B-14 or 66-BX-14? Do not see you on my Program.

    Jeff Terrell

    Comment by J. Terrell — May 26, 2018 @ 6:30 pm

  2133. To All,
    Thinking of all of you and those standing muster and no longer present on this Memorial Day.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — May 28, 2018 @ 8:02 am

  2134. Manny,

    Thanks for your posting after more than a month with no other postings. You are our perennial poster.

    Aside from cookouts and barbecues, we must remember that there are brave men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice for our nation. I would like to pay homage to LT Carl Ortman, WWII aviator, SFC James Gordon, Vietnam War infantryman, Richard Erb, Vietnam War veteran who died later from a service connected disability.

    These are just three brave men who gave their lives so that we might live free.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 28, 2018 @ 9:49 am

  2135. Let,s all take a moment and bow our heads and remember all of our fallen brothers and sisters who made the ultimate sacrifice for our beloved country. May God continue to bless them and also all of our active duty personnel and veterans.

    Comment by charles Goffredo — May 28, 2018 @ 11:35 am

  2136. Let us never forget the ultimate sacrifice that so many brave Americans have made to ensure our freedom, values and way of life are protected.
    God bless them all and their families and you my brothers.

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 28, 2018 @ 2:33 pm

  2137. Fifty years ago today, from the back window of a cab, was the last time I saw Holabird. My buddy and I cleared post as fast and early as we could. Robert Kennedy was assassinated early that morning in California and we didn’t want to take any chances that they would lock down the post worrying that there might be a conspiracy. Back in April of that year, they closed the gates when MLK was assassinated. I waited too long for this day and I didn’t want to wait any longer for my first day of civilian life.
    Now, fifty years later, I wish I could see it again. (The way it was). It was home for almost 3 years and I have some great memories.
    Reading the posts on this site, I am not alone with those feelings. It was a special place and was full of special people.
    I have trouble remembering where I leave my keys but I can remember Holabird like it was yesterday.
    Love this site!

    Comment by Bill Leach — June 6, 2018 @ 10:48 pm

  2138. Bill(2101),
    Great post well written. Loved the second to last line. Still can’t get over the intelligence (no pun intended) of all of you, really!

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — June 7, 2018 @ 5:11 am

  2139. Talk about things that we learned at Holabird. Yesterday during my daily walk, I saw a car that was parked in the Waikiki Post Office with a license plate FNU LEE. Will never forget the terminology we were introduced to-LNU, MNU, NMI, LIDMC. During my Army Reserve years I attended the enlisted PSYOPS course at Fort Bragg and one of the other students was SSG CSAPO, wh0 of course became SSG Acronym to me.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — June 8, 2018 @ 3:31 pm

  2140. Found this site by accident. Was intrigued and captivated by the initial “Twilight Zone” post and took a few days to read most posts. After completing Infantry Officer Basic Course at Benning in Fall ’66 was assigned to The Bird for the Orientation Course and the 666 course. Off to the 502nd MI Battalion in Korea in June ’67. After a few months as the SAIC Kwangju Resident Office, assigned as SAIC Taejon Field Office. This site resurrected some fond memories of Holabird and Korea. Thanks for the memories!!

    Comment by John T Gallagher — June 10, 2018 @ 1:09 pm

  2141. Dear Friends,

    I wanted to mention, on this the 74th Anniversary of D-Day, that my wife Jane’s dad jumped into Normandy, as the aircraft he traveled in was shot down. He was a member of the Band of Brothers, the 2/506th Parachute Infantry Regiment. I’m writing to mention the publication of my second book, Around the Corner. A large segment of this book deals with Jane’s father and tells this, and several other stories which did not appear in the TV series, Band of Brothers.
    Like my last book Rainy Street Stories, my latest deals with the human aspects of America’s wars and conflicts from my own experience as a counterintelligence officer during the Cold War and its bloody aftermath. I include Jane’s dad as an influence on my life.
    Also as in Rainy Street Stories, my second follows up on themes of elementary right and wrong, even in the twilight world of intelligence. I think you might like Around the Corner’s chapter on the role of language study in our military/diplomatic equations, too.
    I hope you get a chance to read these. If you know of anyone who might like them, please pass this information along. Thank you all.
    Around the Corner can be read about here.https://www.amazon.com/dp/1936800225
    Rainy Street Stories is here: https://www.amazon.com/Rainy-Street-Stories-John-Davis/dp/1936800101

    Keep smiling,

    John
    John W. Davis/Jane H. Davis
    16659 Linton Road
    Athens, Alabama 35613
    256 233 8928

    Comment by John Davis — June 13, 2018 @ 1:08 pm

  2142. Dear Fathers,

    It is on this Sunday that we celebrate you and your role as a nurturer and a role model. Fathers are often seen as the calm and steady presence in a country or world that can be frustrating, chaotic, and unpredictable. It is humbling to know that the kind of man a father is will profoundly influence the growth of their children and their reactions to their surroundings. It is because of this that today we pay tribute to you and thank you for your service to our nation and to our sons and daughters.

    Happy Father’s Day!

    Note: Excerpts from the above were taken from a publication titled, The VA Caregiver Support Program, 1-855-260-3274.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 17, 2018 @ 7:29 am

  2143. Wayne, relative to posting 2101, I came up with one while at the ‘Bird- LITSAH, loyal, intelligent, trustworthy… ‘n sneaky as hell!

    Comment by Bill Schulz — June 20, 2018 @ 6:08 pm

  2144. Regarding Manny’s comment in #2100, I went through basic at Jackson in 9/61 and of the 500 processed in bulk, only ten were selected off the top to go out to the CIC building (tent!) for “the pitch.” How many actually made it to the ‘Bird I don’t know but I think it was only two of us. That comes to a whopping 0.004%. So, yeah, that makes us sort of the top of the heap, so to speak.
    So, rejoice fellas, we’re really special.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — June 27, 2018 @ 10:58 am

  2145. when our buss left ft Jackson 6:00 am on fri Nov 22, 1963, I was the only one that got off at Holibard.

    Comment by jbone — June 27, 2018 @ 5:46 pm

  2146. Bill (2106),

    Thanks, but it was not my post but Gary Miller’s. A heap of??
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 28, 2018 @ 3:56 pm

  2147. Humanity, Manny, HUMANITY! (BIG smile!)

    Comment by Bill Schulz — June 30, 2018 @ 7:26 pm

  2148. Bill(2108), A+

    Great answer!

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 1, 2018 @ 7:28 am

  2149. Bill(2108), A+

    Great answer!

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 1, 2018 @ 7:29 am

  2150. Veterans and Families,

    Today, we celebrate the Declaration of Independence from the British Empire by the original 13 colonies on July 4, 1776. It is also important to note that 2 of the original signers of this document, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams, died on July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversay of the signing. Also, James Monroe, not an original signer, died on July 4, 1831. Calvin Coolidge was the only president born on this date on July 4, 1872.

    As you enjoy your parades, fireworks, cookouts and barbecues, remember the significance of this date in our history.

    Happy Independence Day!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 4, 2018 @ 9:01 am

  2151. Several months ago I was half watching TV which was discussing some of the goings-on of that little creep who runs North Korea. A that moment an image came up and I told my wife that the fellow looked like one of my three carpool mates at Holabird. Darned if the name of the fellow came up and it was, indeed, my good and great carpool pal Nick Hanson. Remarkably I found is name on line complete with e-mail addy. I sent him a note and we have reconnected after fifty years. Sounds like some of the things he did in INTC stayed with him for a career. A very good man as were so many of the people we trained with at Holabird. Just a comment about an old friend and how nice it is to re-connect. Bill Yantis

    Comment by Bill Yantis — July 10, 2018 @ 3:32 pm

  2152. Great story Bill !
    Thanks for sharing.

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 10, 2018 @ 4:40 pm

  2153. Beware riding in a Duck Boat in choppy water!

    7/19/2018 – Branson, Missouri – 17 people were reported drowned so far after taking a ride in a DUCK Boat that became swamped and then sank in a lake adjacent to Branson, MO. You will recall that the DUCKW boat was developed and tested at FORT HOLABIRD. The civilian version is not identical to the one used by our military in WWII, which was used successfully in the campaign in Europe.

    A similar incident occurred in Arkansas in 1999 where 13 people were killed. At that time, the NTSB Investigation found that the boat’s canopy trapped passengers inside the relatively closed-off vehicle and contributed to their deaths.

    The above information was taken from an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — July 20, 2018 @ 1:13 pm

  2154. Today, July 27th is National Korean War Veterans’ Armistice Day. It is the time to honor and give thanks to our distinguished Korean War Vets. Flags will fly at half-staff on federal buildings to commemorate all of those who served in that war especially the 37,000 who gave the ultimate sacrifice. It also commemorates that today is the 65th anniversary of the signing of the treaty ending the Korean War. Additionally, on this date in 1995, the Korean War Veterans’ Memorial was dedicated in 1995 in Washington, D.C..

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 27, 2018 @ 9:11 am

  2155. Spent 3 years there..in MI 72-75..I still get quite often,,although gone the officers bldg. is there…lots of nice memories.Now an industrial park.

    Comment by Tom — July 29, 2018 @ 2:38 pm

  2156. Tom,

    Are you a local? If so, give me a shout at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Phil Ostrander
    Baltimore Native

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 29, 2018 @ 3:33 pm

  2157. Haven’t checked in a while. The comment on June 6, D-Day meant something to me as I landed in RVN on that day 50 years ago. How time goes by. It made me reflect on the fact that in 1968 it was 50 years from 1918, WWI. We are now the veterans of 50 years past. Just like we viewed someone from WWI in 1968. I hope this cheered up every one.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — July 30, 2018 @ 1:58 pm

  2158. Jim,
    “2153” is one creative post.

    Manny (class of ’54).

    Comment by manny adler — August 1, 2018 @ 5:04 am

  2159. Thought I had lost this link- glad I could get it back again.

    Comment by John Washington — August 4, 2018 @ 8:11 pm

  2160. John,

    Welcome back!

    If anyone ever loses this website, please email me. Store my address: ppstrndr@verizon.net and I will help you to re-connect.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 4, 2018 @ 10:05 pm

  2161. Thanks Phil- greatly appreciated

    Comment by John Washington — August 4, 2018 @ 11:17 pm

  2162. All,

    14 years since my first posting and still nary a response from someone I knew from that era, but as Dante wrote: “Hope is the last muse that leaves the grave” (or something to that effect).
    Still enjoy the site and all of you.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 14, 2018 @ 5:04 am

  2163. Manny,

    Ditto, save one person with whom I served. I have often thought the title of this website could have thrown some people off the track. Unless you are from New Jersey, you may not have known to what “Parkway Restop” refers. Although the reference to the Twilight Zone is fairly obvious; that too could have confused some of those who weren’t knowledgeable of that T.V. program. This is just a thought.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 14, 2018 @ 10:37 am

  2164. Phil,

    Never dawned on me. I bet you are on to something!

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 14, 2018 @ 12:44 pm

  2165. Manny,

    Thank you for your comments above and for all of them for the past 14 years and Jim Flynn, thanks for originating this website that all of us have enjoyed for all of that time!

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 14, 2018 @ 2:18 pm

  2166. Manny and Phil, I found the website by the Keywords “Fort Holabird” some years back. Apart from a few people I served with in other locations, no one who was at school with me at Holabird in 1967 has responded on the webpage. The youngest of us who experienced Holabird are likely 65 years and older (mostly older). Many may not be computer interested or savvy since 50 years ago if you had an intelligence query you had to visit the local military reel to reel mainframe and submit a request to the computer Grand Poo Bahs. The old folks may not know that personnel PCs exist (joke). I still check in from time to time and hope to be one of the “last men standing” so to speak and waiting for some of my classmates to get in touch. Also Phil, thanks for the local updates and color commentary on Holabird.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — August 14, 2018 @ 3:36 pm

  2167. it is interesting and disappointing, that I have not heard from the first person with whom I attended Holibard.

    Comment by jbone — August 14, 2018 @ 7:19 pm

  2168. I also found this site with a Google search “Fort Holabird” in November of 2004. The only people I served with who also posted here were directed here by me.
    I check in almost every night hoping to reconnect with someone from the past. Some of the posts are from the same time I was there but I don’t recall the names. I was there almost 3 years so I know I was there at the same time as some of the other posters here. Also I was at the NCO club most nights and then over to the Holabird Inn.
    I graduated from the Coordinator course, I and 22 other graduates stayed at Holabird for the remainder of our 3 year enlistment. Where the hell are they? I did find 2 or 3 of them but they don’t post here.
    Oh well, I enjoy reading the posts here and look forward to checking it out every night.
    Thanks to Jim Flynn for starting this site and thanks to Manny and Phil for keeping it going.
    Bill Leach

    Comment by bill leach — August 14, 2018 @ 10:49 pm

  2169. Haven’t posted in awhile but couldn’t resist jumping in again in joining the experience of not connecting with former classmates or M.I. colleagues in various duty stations. It has been 9 years since my first post (187) and a few since but have grown accustomed to familiar regulars like Manny, Jim, Phil, Bill, Jbone and others who continue the legacy of Holibird. We have an unique bond that only dinosaurs from Dundalk can understand. I am fortunate to be a part of this outstanding group of Patriots.
    Til next time,
    Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — August 15, 2018 @ 1:47 am

  2170. Hello Ed Hotchkiss,

    I try to notify our Holabird friends if I notice any problems with this website going down etc. bIn order to do this, I try to notify as many people as I can via their personal emails. Would you consider sending me yours so I can add it to my list? If this concerns anyone else out there in hyper space, please send me yours as well. I can be reached at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 15, 2018 @ 10:26 am

  2171. I actually stumbled on to this website by googling Fort Holabird. To your point Phil, I had no idea what the Parkway Resrstop was. Sure glad I found it though.

    Comment by Gary Miller — August 15, 2018 @ 4:31 pm

  2172. Phil-
    It’s been a while since I checked the site (SHAME on me!) so I’ll start… at the beginning? Well, my beginning here. When I do a ^F search for my name I come up with post #1306, 14 May 2014. How I found the group, I’m not sure but it was probably searching for stuff related to The ‘Bird. Yeah, I know, that’s a big help!
    Just finished some perusing of the site and came up with the closest thing to an “acquaintance” in Dave Mitchell’s post #2095. I, too, served in the 108th MI Group but at the Buffalo FO. That was ’62-3 so we overlapped.
    Dave, I recall the the name of one of the Regional CDRs, MAJ-LTC Statchwick but wasn’t there one either before or following?
    As for the Buffalo FO, my first SAIC was a Paul Siroky. Always thought him a little “light in the loafers” as M*A*S*H’s MAJ Frank Burns would say, and, sho’ nuff, he was/is. Traced him to a gay church out on the left coast. That got missed in his BI.
    Toward the end of your post, Dave, you mentioned living in Pearland, TX. You may recall from some of my posts that I finished out my tour in Turkey (after turning down a direct-to-1LT field commission offer… MAX DUMB!). At any rate, our unit had a Turkish linguist, a SP4 David Kern, for dealing with the locals. His counter part was one Atakan Sobay, a Turk who later came to this country, got his citizenship, gathered a bundle in computers and is now blissfully retired at the Wolfe Airpark in nearby Manvel. Oh, yeah, he got his pilot certificate and currently is a flaming son of Uncle Sam and has a Grumman Yankee in his hangar. I’m 83 so I don’t fly any more… don’t want to croak at the helm and take someone on the ground with me!
    On March 1st I had a parathyroid op which dragged out to four hours during which something happened and I now suffer from unilateral paresis of my vocal cords so I can still croak some but my prolonged chatter is all done with my fingertips.
    Forgive me, brothers, for all the “jibber-jabber.”
    Bill

    Comment by Bill Schulz — August 15, 2018 @ 5:50 pm

  2173. the following mainly to Gary Miller (2069) and Bob Mann (2094) `from Ralph Askin (see 425 et seq to 430).
    sometimes paths cross.

    at fort ord june – august 1953,
    fort holabird september 1953 – february 1955
    investigations and german
    munich march 1955 – june 1956
    66th

    Comment by ralph askin — August 17, 2018 @ 2:48 pm

  2174. Reference 2169 Ralph Askin

    Ralf….thanks for posting. I doubt our paths ever crossed, simply because you were at Ord, the Bird and 66th MI a few years before me. Interesting though that our military paths had very similar directions. Trust all is well.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — August 19, 2018 @ 6:08 am

  2175. My father was S2 of the 921’st Field Artillery Batallion, 96th Infantry Division, and was part of the invasions of Leyte and Okinawa during WWII. He had enlisted at Fort Meade in Nov, 1940, and his first duty station was at Edgewood Arsenal where he was attached to an outfit that had mules(!). From there he went to OCS at Fort Sill, and then to various camps/posts (many on the West Coast): Camp Ritchie, Ft. Bragg, Camp Adair, Yakima Firing Range, Ft. Lewis, Camp White, Camp Callan, Camp San Luis Obispo, Camp Stoneman, Schofield Barracks (Hawaii). Thence to Oahu, Maui, Eniwetok, Manus, Leyte, Okinawa, Mindoro, Mindanao. Discharged in 1946 as a Lt. Colonel.

    My own 3-year army tour involved reception at Ft. Holabird (Jan 1967), Fort Bragg, Fort Knox (basic), Fort Holabird (intel school, April 1967), Fort Myer (language school), Vietnam (1’st Mibars), received an early out in Oct, 1969 and returned to university with the GI Bill plus 17 credits for my Army language. Not a bad deal at all.

    I opted for a delayed enlistment in the summer of 1966, with active duty commencing in Jan, 1967. Sometime in the Summer/Fall of 1966 I began to receive letters from my local draft board (Catonsville, Md.) ordering me to report. Since I was already in the Army, I ignored them, and they gradually began to be ever more severe, ultimately threatening to send US Marshalls after me. I imagined myself as the hero in some kind of embarrassing false-arrest scenario – but my father, the WWII vet, urged a more sensible course of action. So I called my Army recruiter, and he placated the draft board. About 2 years later, the Catonsville Nine burned the draft records at that board – I imagined that they might have burned mine, but to no effect as I was well into my Army tour.

    I went into the Army primarily because I was bored with college and wound up spending almost 1/2 of my Army tour going to school. It had a profoundly positive impact on my life, especially language school, and paid for my continuing college education. I was dumb-luck fortunate and remain appreciative of my time in the US Army.

    Comment by Eugene Lxx — August 20, 2018 @ 9:17 pm

  2176. In tribute to the members of the Taejon (Daejoen) Field Office, Republic of Korea, 1969 – 1970:

    Thomas J. O’Connell (Skippy)

    Mr. Beamer

    Robert C. Thompson, Jr.

    T. J. Carbody

    A.B. Hitt

    John Lawler

    Jim Hahn

    Rick aka: Rickerdu

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — August 21, 2018 @ 9:11 am

  2177. Reference 2169 Ralph Askin
    Ralph, We never crossed paths at Holabird because you were in the investigations program while I was learning German. (Did you also have Captain Rothchild for an instructor?) And my time in Germany with the 66th was in Stuttgart while you were in Munich.

    Comment by Robert Mann — August 23, 2018 @ 12:07 pm

  2178. Like 10 years before me

    Comment by jbone — August 25, 2018 @ 4:51 pm

  2179. God Bless You John McCain: patriot, military hero, statesman, public servant, and a true class act!

    Rest in Peace…

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 25, 2018 @ 9:14 pm

  2180. The real shame is that America never saw fit to elect him President. no doubt he would have been a great one.

    Comment by jbone — August 26, 2018 @ 1:00 pm

  2181. re:2174
    Amen

    Comment by Robert Mann — August 27, 2018 @ 10:43 am

  2182. The WALL in Washington, D.C.

    There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.

    The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 61 years since the first casualty.

    The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth, Mass. Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956. His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps LCpl Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.

    There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.

    39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.

    8,283 were just 19 years old.

    The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.

    12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.

    5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.

    One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.

    997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam.

    1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam.

    31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.

    Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.

    54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia. I wonder why so many from one school

    8 Women are on the Wall, Nursing the wounded.

    244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall

    Beallsville, Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.

    West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation. There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

    The Marines of Morenci – They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci (pop 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado
    Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest. And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci’s mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.

    The Buddies of Midvale – LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam. In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy’s assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.

    The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.

    The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 – 2,415 casualties were incurred.

    For most Americans who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War created. To those of us who survived the war, and to the families of those who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created. We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and daughters There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.

    Also on the Wall is the name of my U.S. Army Recruiter, SFC James B.L. Gordon. He left a wife and 2 small children. May he rest in peace along with his brothers mentioned above.

    Phil

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — August 31, 2018 @ 2:14 pm

  2183. Just watched John McCain’s service in Washington. Really a sad time. He will be missed by many.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — September 1, 2018 @ 2:38 pm

  2184. Dedicated to Captain John S. McCain:

    THE NAVAL AVIATOR’S PRAYER

    Eternal Father, strong to save,
    Whose arm hath bound the Restive Wave,
    Who biddest the mighty ocean deep
    It’s own appointed limits keep
    Oh hear us when we cry to Thee
    For those in peril on the sea.

    Lord guard the men who fly
    Through the great spaces of the sky.
    Be with them always in the air,
    In darkening storms or sunlight fair
    Oh hear us when we lift our prayer
    For those in peril in the air.

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — September 2, 2018 @ 3:47 pm

  2185. My latest posting above, #2178, contains at least one error. In the first paragraph on line two, I should have said “Restless Wave” not the synonym, “Restive Wave”.

    Thank you,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 2, 2018 @ 9:02 pm

  2186. Phil,

    You’re safe. The difference between “restless” and “restive” is above my rank and grade. Also I could not find “#2178” but if we keep posting we will get there. Really enjoy your posting, thanks.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 3, 2018 @ 7:11 am

  2187. Manny,

    Happy Labor Day and thanks for your response!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 3, 2018 @ 9:15 am

  2188. MA Klicka would be proud of this bunch. j bone

    Comment by jbone — September 3, 2018 @ 2:18 pm

  2189. Today, Patriot Day, sadly, we commemorate the anniversary of 9/11. We celebrate the 2,996 lives lost including 343 firefighters, 61 police officers, 8 EMTs and paramedics, and many other civilians. We also pray for the over 18,000 people who have been affected by toxic dust and other respiratory illnesses since that date. We remember Todd Beamer, age 32, who left a wife and 3 young children while perishing that day in Shanksville, PA. He is credited with using the phrase, “Okay, Let’s roll,” after reciting the Lord’s Prayer and the 23rd Psalm, when he and several of his fellow passengers attacked the highjackers in an attempt to wrestle control of their airplane and prevent it from flying into the U.S. Capitol building.

    RIP

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 11, 2018 @ 1:10 pm

  2190. Sadly, this is another reminder of what happens when we allow our intelligence system to become complacent and rely too much on machines to protect us. how many more times will this have to happen before out government realizes there is nothing to replace human intel . nothing can replace that. and also we cannot wait for the disaster to have men and women in place. that is only accomplished with work, developing that relationship. you can not put someone in place for a week and tell them to call me in a week and let me know what is going on. god bless the men and women of the intelligence agencies of this country.

    Comment by jbone — September 12, 2018 @ 12:31 pm

  2191. Re: #1800
    Jerry, when you were at the bilateral team at Bien Hoa, did you work with Mike Rod? He was with that team from approx. Nov. 70 to Nov. 71. I worked with Greg at the Unilat team next door for around 3 months from Nov. 70 to Jan 71.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — September 14, 2018 @ 12:25 pm

  2192. Hi Larry,

    Are you new to this website? If so, please post more information so we can all see what we have in common with you in addition to your time in Vietnam.

    Thanks!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 16, 2018 @ 3:17 pm

  2193. Trying to post a comment, but it doesn’t show up after I click on Submit Comment. Anyone else having this problem?

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 16, 2018 @ 10:33 pm

  2194. test to see if it is still working.

    Comment by jbone — September 17, 2018 @ 10:39 am

  2195. Hi Jack,

    Please contact Craig Sprout, website troubleshooter, who can be reached at the following email address: csprout@gmail.com and he will be glad to assist you.

    Good luck,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 17, 2018 @ 12:09 pm

  2196. Thanks, Phil

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 18, 2018 @ 4:10 pm

  2197. Any 97C40 out there that remembers how long that course was?

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 18, 2018 @ 4:16 pm

  2198. Jack,

    My research indicates that a “Charlie” or 97C20 goes through a 19 week program.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 18, 2018 @ 9:30 pm

  2199. Phil,

    What does 97C2O stand for? We the cognitively impaired could use a list of acronyms and what they stand for (always to end a sentence with for). Could you?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 20, 2018 @ 5:10 am

  2200. test

    Comment by craig — September 20, 2018 @ 9:26 am

  2201. Having trouble posting again. Tried to post again and received a message to Slow down. I was posting too fast. Ill see it this posts.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 20, 2018 @ 8:17 pm

  2202. it did

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 20, 2018 @ 8:17 pm

  2203. Tried again. Long post wont go. Oh well, someone else please answer Manny;s question.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 20, 2018 @ 8:20 pm

  2204. Hi Jack,

    I have been working with Craig Sprout as I am having trouble posting myself. I prepared an answer to Manny’s question but was not successful. I sent Manny an email message instead.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 20, 2018 @ 9:06 pm

  2205. reference 2198 and 2199

    My diploma for the 97c40 course had the dates and it is 19 weeks. As for what 97C40 means its just a MOS designation. Military Occupational Specialties

    Comment by Jim Wiles — September 21, 2018 @ 11:14 am

  2206. I am still trying to figure out what is going on. This seems specific to certain users, and not the size of the post.

    Meantime, here is an update from Phil Ostrander:

    “Jim W. and Jack W.,

    Thanks for the follow-up to Manny’s question. As a former Agent and a amateur historian on Fort Holabird
    and related MI topics, the only thing that I could add is that the 97c20 for enlisted personnel was entitled, Agent Handler (Area Intelligence Specialist). This is according to my research.

    Phil”

    Comment by mtsprout — September 21, 2018 @ 7:52 pm

  2207. Actually, Phil it is 97C40 (not 20)

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 23, 2018 @ 7:01 pm

  2208. Thanks Jack! Send me your email address at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 23, 2018 @ 8:20 pm

  2209. re: #2205
    When did you finish your 97C40 class?

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 24, 2018 @ 9:00 am

  2210. Anybody go back to the days when a CIC agents MOS was 1301? At least mine was in the early 50’s.
    Bob Mann

    Comment by Robert Mann — September 25, 2018 @ 11:58 am

  2211. Re # 2191
    Larry, I remember the name (Mike Rod) but can’t put a face
    to it. I was on the bilat team from about Dec 70 to June 71.

    Comment by Jerry McCarty — September 26, 2018 @ 7:29 am

  2212. Curious. Was there always a Casual Company where people were assigned while waiting for class?

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 27, 2018 @ 5:21 pm

  2213. I know we had casuals assigned to S2 Troop Command in October 1965. They mostly just made coffee and swept the floor.

    Comment by bill leach — September 27, 2018 @ 10:38 pm

  2214. Bill(2213),
    Always, at least at Holabird. May have had different names,i.e., Replacement Depot (also known as “repo depot”), etc.. Some of us had loftier jobs such as mopping and buffing. One needed an advanced degree or “pull” to move up to pool table cleaning and bannister buffing. So there you it.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 28, 2018 @ 5:06 am

  2215. ref 2209
    Finished the class in Nov 68 and was stationed in a MI unit at Fort Bragg with 13 other guys from my class. We all went to RVN in June and some of us were assigned to Special Forces.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — September 28, 2018 @ 10:33 am

  2216. re: 2215
    Jim, we must have been in the same class although your name seems to ring a bell, I cant picture you. Graduated in late Nov 68 and was sent to Korea, 502nd MI Btn. along with several others. I worked from Field Station 3 with all civilian employees of another intelligence agency.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 28, 2018 @ 3:04 pm

  2217. Ref 2215
    My class number was 68 DE 9. Somewhere in my files I have the graduation booklet with everyones names. Will try to locate it.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — September 29, 2018 @ 10:57 am

  2218. ref 2217
    Found the graduation booklet. You were not the class. I believe there was another 97C40 class just ahead of us and one behind also. That could have been the one you were in.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — September 29, 2018 @ 11:07 am

  2219. re: 2218
    Jim – I didn’t know they were pushing that many classes through at the same time. I think your name was familiar from seeing your posts on this site. How long were you in casual company before starting class?

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — October 1, 2018 @ 4:06 pm

  2220. 1966 with the build-up for VietNam, they started pushing students through at a furious pace. We had trouble getting the BIs and Nacs in time for their security clearances so they could start class. We finally had to get “Immediate Access” for them so they could start class. If their investigation wasn’t complete by the time they were going to have SECRET classes, we would have to pull them from class.
    It was a nightmare keeping track of all the classes and all the students.
    They were running some double classes. Some in the morning and more in the afternoon.
    We (S2) were even working some Sundays to try and get them cleared.
    I was on the Honor Guard for graduations and sometimes they had 2 graduations a day with up to 4 different courses graduating at the same time.
    Processing incoming students use to take 1 hour on a Friday but during the buildup, it took hours sometimes 3 or 4 days a week.

    Comment by bill leach — October 1, 2018 @ 10:36 pm

  2221. Does anybody remember doing Q-Boat detail while they were in Casual Company?

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — October 3, 2018 @ 9:49 pm

  2222. Ref 2219
    Jack,
    After basic at Fort Dix i arrived at Holibird around the middle of Feb.
    I remember playing the part of a VC at the mock village at Fort Howard.
    We left in an unmarked van and the guy driving stopped at a donut shop so we could get coffee as it was real early. The people were surprised at the way we were dressed but no body asked any questions. It just got very quiet as we walked in.
    For the most of the time before the class starting in July I spent it as a security guard for several buildings after hours and on the weekends. You couldn’t fall asleep and it was a long night. One of the buildings had a TV but there was nothing after 1:00 AM back then. Read a lot of books.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — October 4, 2018 @ 10:58 am

  2223. Jim,
    I attended basic at Fort Bragg. About a month before basic ended, I was pulled aside and told my papers had not come through to send me on to Holabird. They asked me, on the side, if I had lied about anything on my paperwork. I hadn’t, that doesn’t mean I was completely honest, either. Anyway, “graduation” came and I had been told the paperwork had been located on some Lt’s desk, but wouldn’t come thru in time. So I was held over. Each day I would stick my head into the first Sergeant’s office to say “here” and he would say “Continue about your soldering”. At the end of that week a new group of troops arrived and I became an acting drill corporal along with my former drill sergeant, with whom I had a great relationship. After a week of training troops my paper work came thru and my drill sergeant drove me to the train station. I arrived late in the day at Holabird, sometime in mid March 68, and since no one really told me what to do, except to fall out for roll call in the morning I just wandered around. I ran into a friend from basic, who told me not to show up for morning roll call but wait until the 4:30 roll call and i would be assigned to “night office of logistics”. Smartest thing i did while in the army. Turned out, on Mon, Tue and Wed, and Fri we worked from 5 to 7 buffing floors and emptying trash cans from offices in the admin building. At 7, we were free to go back, change into civilian clothes and “continue about our civilian lives”. On Thursdays, we actually worked to 11:30. The nerve of that army! We should have demanded overtime pay. I was told there was a clandestine action going on that kept certain people from being assigned to class.You may have been part of it. You were obviously there a little longer than I. During all that time that idiot Lt. Penn, in charge of Casual Company and his cohorts new something was going on and did their best to find out what. “Night olog” didn’t last forever, but my next assignment kept Lt. Penn at bay. I hope that man NEVER commanded anybody in RVN. If he did, many of them have their names on the wall in DC, I’m sure.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — October 4, 2018 @ 7:58 pm

  2224. Jack (2223),

    “Night office logistics”. You are my hero! Never knew about that one.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 6, 2018 @ 5:45 pm

  2225. It was a good one, Manny. Those 15 hour work weeks were hard to come by in the army, even better on a base like The Bird where there were no passes and you just came and went as you pleased.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — October 8, 2018 @ 2:43 pm

  2226. After serving a year and a day in ‘nam, I was assigned to the 116th INTC Group in DC. During my nine months there I served as the photolab/photography chief and had one occasion to visit Holabird and for the life of me cannot recall exactly why except that it was the INTC home base.

    I enjoyed my time in DC prior to my separation in ’66…

    Comment by James T. — October 12, 2018 @ 11:46 pm

  2227. can’t its been a month since any post.

    Comment by james h bone — October 17, 2018 @ 11:02 am

  2228. James(2226),
    Only 10 days and now 1 day. Keep reminding us or at our age we forget. Thanks.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 18, 2018 @ 5:06 am

  2229. there must be something wrong with the site. no post for a month. I have tried to do a couple but they do not show up. j. bone

    Comment by j h bone — October 18, 2018 @ 10:52 am

  2230. no activity for a month?

    Comment by j. h. bone — October 23, 2018 @ 10:00 am

  2231. Gents – we have a problem. no new post are showing up on the site. they are however showing on on the rss feed and can be followed. i guess we have used up all of our bandwidth and need to pay more. perhaps we need to consider allowing a contribution. j. bone

    Comment by j h bone — October 24, 2018 @ 7:17 pm

  2232. Being that there is somewhat of a lull in postings I thought that a previous post(736 and a typo correction in 737) might again stir up some pride in our hallowed institution at Ft. Holabird. Some of you may remember it and I think it is a tribute to our alma mater. She was from my hometown and quite possibly Holabird’s first female spy and lie detector aficionado.
    It was posted 6 years ago and I think it will bring you some enjoyment.
    Thanks.
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — October 27, 2018 @ 1:37 am

  2233. Forgot to mention that my original post was 187.
    Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — October 27, 2018 @ 1:41 am

  2234. Not much to offer at this time as you guys all had very different MI paths than what I had. Remember, I was a “bad boy” who bit Uncle’s hand when he offered this SGT a 1LT direct wto which I said “no.” So, I was relegated from the 108th’s Buffalo FO to the ELINT portion of Army intel, the Army Security Agency or was it were often referred to as the “titless WACs.” Sorry, that was a little coarse but pretty accurate as I’m sure very few even knew which end of the rifle to aim at the enemy.
    Our site in Turkey (Site 23 or TUSLOG Det 27) looked like a country club, a patch of green, swimming pool and all, out in the puckerbrush ’bout 30 clicks south of Ankara. However, OPS was tighter than a gnat’s rear end and the goings-on in there were TS-C, or Top Secret, Crypto.
    The S2 office had a spook detail of three S/As, one coordinator (who later went back to the ‘Bird to get his “tiles”) and one clerk-typist, all just for this post of about 2,500 running OPS 24/7. We were HQ for TUSLOG and had subordinate units in several other sites in Turkey plus Iran.
    Site 23 is at 2500′ above sea level and all the other units within TUSLOG (The United States LOgistics Group… “logistics, me arse, we were listening to the Soviets, BIG time, even had a YEA3A Grumman YEA-3A “Whale” as an aerial listening post op’d by the USN!) were at sea level. As a result, intramural sports teams were always, repeat ALWAYS the champs… our guys were supercharged when we played away, their guys were suffering mild hypoxia when they came up to Site 23. As a pilot, I’m one of the few who figured that one out. Hee, hee, heeeee….
    Most of our duty had to do with chasing down those guilty of “eskigi,” that is, black marketing. We also had gambling and other shady stuff to sniff out, plus the occasional sexual deviate to rotate (drum?) out.
    Hey, boring stuff, but at least no one was shooting at us! TUSLOG was disbanded and Site 23 turned over to the Turks ’bout the time USAINTC got folded into DIA. I don’t know what’s going on there now but it is still beautiful in the satellite shots. HQ bldg’s oordinates are 39.662578, 32.714436 in case anyone wants to take a gander.
    Cheers, mates.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — November 1, 2018 @ 4:35 pm

  2235. Bill,
    Interesting stuff even if I don,t get all the acronyms. In my day they went by “split peters”. Either way today this would not fly. Bill I assume you were in during the 70’s or 80’s. You do write well.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 2, 2018 @ 3:21 pm

  2236. Hey everybody,

    Looks like a bunch of posts were stuck in moderation, so I turned those loose. There are no bandwidth overages or issues to worry about. I don’t know why some posts don’t get through. but let me know when they don’t.

    Comment by mtsprout — November 3, 2018 @ 5:40 am

  2237. Good grief. Looks like I lost a couple of posts when I migrated over. Sorry guys.

    Comment by mtsprout — November 10, 2018 @ 3:55 pm

  2238. A vigorous salute to all United States of America Veterans, especially to the Fort Holabird graduates. I am so fortunate to have served with all of you.
    May God bless and preserve our nation.
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — November 11, 2018 @ 6:02 am

  2239. Ref. 2238. Ed,

    Happy Veteran’s Day to you and all of our veterans, especially those who served in MI! Originally, this day was also celebrated as Armistice Day, where a treaty was signed on the events hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month of 1918, ending World War One.

    SGT Henry N. Gunther, from Baltimore, MD, was the last U.S. Soldier killed in that war. With fixed bayonet, he charged a German machine nest and died in a hail of gunfire at 10:58 a.m. on that day. His unit, Co A, 313th Inf, 79th Div, was participating in the Meuse Argonne Offensive. For his bravery, he was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross and a Division Citation for Gallantry in Action.

    My maternal grandfather, PVT James J. O’Malley, also fought in WWI in the Meuse Argonne Offensive. He was assigned to Co E, 305th Eng, 80th Div.. Unlike SGT Gunther, he survived the war, came home, and started a family, living into his late sixties.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2018 @ 8:45 am

  2240. Waiting for the 11 month, 11 day, 11 hour to write. I had an uncle who was gassed in WWI

    Comment by Jim Wiles — November 11, 2018 @ 12:11 pm

  2241. Humm! Must be a time warp or something, It was 11:11 AM in my time zone. Anyway my uncle was gassed and I have his helmet and gas mask from the war.
    My wife’s grandfather was also in the war and ran communication wires and was behind the German lines hiding under a bridge as the Germans were marching above. He wrote a 20 page report on what he was doing. He was an Army Officer but was laying lines for the Marines. What is interesting is he received the Navy Cross for his actions. We have a picture from the Washington Post after the war of him receiving the medal.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — November 11, 2018 @ 12:21 pm

  2242. Did anyone know James H. Doney? He worked at the Bird from 63-68, and died there. He was my grandfather.

    Comment by Jim Haupt — November 11, 2018 @ 10:34 pm

  2243. Jim and Phil,

    Fascinating history. My father spent 4 years on the front line in that bloodbath (eastern and western fronts) on the wrong side and then had to flee Germany for praying to the wrong “god”. Iron cross or no iron cross. Being Jewish was a death sentence. Why I loved the CIC!

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 12, 2018 @ 6:11 am

  2244. Jim and Manny,

    It is unfortunate that currently there is no national memorial or monument to WWI veterans on the national mall in Washington, D.C. The mall has many beautiful and meaningful monuments including but not limited to: the D.C. War Memorial, the Korean War Veterans Memorial, the National WWII Memorial, and the Vietnam War Memorial. Although many studies have been undertaken to this end, a site nearby was not located until recently. It was decided that the National WWI Memorial will be constructed in Pershing Park on 14th St. and Pennsylvania Ave., NW. The groundbreaking was held on 11/09/2017.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 12, 2018 @ 1:24 pm

  2245. My father was James H DONEY Sr. He passed away at his office in Ft Holibird on February 13, 1969. I’ve recently found out that he requested overseas transfer just one week before he died. In finding this paperwork, I found his resume and would like help interpreting exactly what my Dad did at Holibird. If anyone is interested in helping me , please drop me an email at loribruther@gmail.com

    Comment by Lori DONEY -Bruther — November 12, 2018 @ 8:36 pm

  2246. My mistake, my grandfather was there until 1969…February 13th according to my mom.

    Comment by Jim Haupt — November 12, 2018 @ 10:23 pm

  2247. Stationed at Holabird from 66 to late 67. Assigned to permanent party as a supply clerk supporting the school. I remember Bill Leach and his good friend
    Nesbit. I had a great time at Holabird and would like to hear from some of the guys I served with, best of wishes and health to all. Dpanicstanek@yahoo.com

    Comment by Frank Stanek — November 15, 2018 @ 12:52 pm

  2248. as we approach the holiday season, i always reflect on this time of year with the memory of what happened on 22 Nov. 1963, while traveling (via US Army) from Ft. Jackson SC, to Ft. Holibard shortly after lunch, when the news of the Death of Pres. Kennedy. i often wonder how the world, and our country would have been different. i cannot help but believe it would have been much different. God Bless you all and be safe with your loved ones. don’t forget to tell them you love them and give them a hug and kiss before you say goodby today. Lesson never let them get away without telling that every day.

    Comment by j.bone — November 16, 2018 @ 8:52 am

  2249. more messages missing. we need the CIC

    Comment by j h bone — November 19, 2018 @ 3:02 pm

  2250. call out the CIC, more messages missing.

    Comment by j h bone — November 19, 2018 @ 3:03 pm

  2251. Jimmy,

    I will contact Craig Sprout.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 19, 2018 @ 3:38 pm

  2252. Craig,

    Thanks for restoring the applicable posts from 2242 to 2248.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 19, 2018 @ 7:06 pm

  2253. about this time 55 years ago, 11/21/1963 we were marching back on our 5 mile march to basic and getting our gear ready to ship out. at noon we were to be information for or orders. we were apprehensive and excited. my birthday was next week and it was exciting for that reason as well. when i let it today those memories food back. well on to tomorrow. j. bone

    Comment by jbone — November 21, 2018 @ 11:49 am

  2254. Wishing all my loyal Holabird Alumnus a
    Happy Thanksgiving.
    Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — November 21, 2018 @ 5:14 pm

  2255. NOV.22,1963. I WAS IN A FOREIGN ORIENTATION CLASS WHEN A MAJOR CAME IN AND SOFTLY STATED;” THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN SHOT IN DALLAS,TEXAS TODAY.HE IS NOT EXPECTED TO LIVE.” EVEN THOUGH WE IN THE CLASS HAD A COUPLE MORE DAYS LEFT, EVERYTHING CAME TO AN UNSCRIPTED HALT. WE WERE GIVEN OUR ” CERTIFICATES” AND DISMISSED. NOT MUCH LATER WE LEARNED OF PRES.]OHN F. KENNEDY’S DEATH. STUDENTS JUST MILLED AROUND; THERE WAS NO ORGANIZATION AT ALL. THE NEXT DAY OR MAYBE THE SECOND DAY I LEARNED THAT THE CANNON IN THE COURTYARD WOULD DO A VOLLEY OF SHOTS ONCE AN HOUR FOR TWELVE HOURS(i may be wrong on this). I HAD MY DAD’S MANUAL HAND-CRANK BELL AND HOWELL 8MM CAMERA WITH ME SO I TRIED TO TIME THE VOLLEYS AND FILM AS MANY AS I COULD WITH WHAT AVAILABLE ROLLS I HAD . I DID THIS UNTIL I WAS UNABLE CONTINUE. NOW SINCE I OBVIOUSLY DID NOT TAKE EACH SHOT FROM THE SAME POSITION, WHEN YOU WATCH THE FILM ON A SCREEN, AND VERY LITTLE FOOTAGE OF ANYTHING BETWEEN THE ACTUAL SHOTS, THE CANNON TENDS TO JUMP AROUND TO A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT SPOT ON THE SCREEN.EVEN SO, I CONSIDER MY FILM OF THIS AN IMPORTANT PART OF MY TIME AT THE INTC SCHOOL AT THE ”BIRD”. I TOOK THE CAMERA TO OKINAWA AND DURING MY EIGHTEEN MONTHS THERE I FILMED MANY 50 FOOT ROLLS WITH IT AND WITH A NEW TOTAL ELECTRIC AUTOMATIC SONY CAMERA I NWAS ABLE TO BUY AT THE PX.I HAVE “CONVERTED”” ALL THESE MOVIES TO DVD AND IT IS MUCH MORE ENJOYABLE AND EASIER TO WATCH RATHER THAN SETTING UP MY PROJECTOR,SCREEN, IN A DARK ROOM PLUS HAVING THE FILM BREAK ONCE OR TWICE EVERY TIME. HOPE THIS WASN’T TOO BORING FOR Y’ALL. BEN BURT FORT WORTH,TEXAS

    Comment by ben burt — November 25, 2018 @ 7:13 pm

  2256. because i was just out of basic, we were recruited along with a couple of other classes, to clean and fire the cannon, during the somber occasion. one of my fellow class members got a short leave and went down to DC and stood in all the lines. j. bone

    Comment by jbone — November 26, 2018 @ 9:25 pm

  2257. jbone; was i anywhere near corrrect the timing and number of shots the cannon fired? i am sure i did not get all the different ones on film–just a good representation . thank you for your response. ben burt

    Comment by ben burt — November 27, 2018 @ 6:20 pm

  2258. As i remember there were several. my group had to do 3 reps. i remember it was cold. there were other guys for the rest of the time. it sure did make that weekend somber and sad. that is as it should be because of the circumstances. j. bone

    Comment by j. bone — November 28, 2018 @ 2:42 pm

  2259. Ben Burt, is the video on-line?

    Comment by b ill leach — November 29, 2018 @ 2:03 pm

  2260. Nov. 22, 1963: Reading the last few posts about that solemn day brought back a flood of memories. I was stationed at the Bird from 62-65 as a School Instructor with DCI. I was also a member of the School Color Guard. On that fateful Friday, I was in the permanent party barracks getting my gear ready for a scheduled retirement ceremony set for later that afternoon when a friend from my office came in with the news about the President. Word came that we would continue with the ceremony. As with the earlier posts, it was very cold so the retirement ceremony was scheduled for the post gym instead of Furlough Field. Ten officers and EM retired in that ceremony.(I still have photos of the event) I also recall that those responsible for not cancelling the ceremony received a thorough chewing out from command. I too, remember the solemn firing of the cannon. Several of us went to DC to witness the caisson carrying the President move from the White House to the Capital. Very lasting memories.
    Mike Chiuchiolo

    Comment by Mike Chiuchiolo — December 2, 2018 @ 11:11 am

  2261. are the gremlins back? nothing for the last week.

    Comment by jhbone — December 6, 2018 @ 11:22 am

  2262. jhbone,

    Nope! It’s the gnomes this time.

    Comment by manny adler — December 8, 2018 @ 5:37 am

  2263. appears you have it fixed again. great job. keep up the good work. i admire your ability to troubleshoot and find and fix the problem. it is a lot easier to find the problem and complain than to fix it. again, great job. j. bone

    Comment by james h bone — December 8, 2018 @ 11:11 am

  2264. well the gremlins are at work again.

    Comment by j bone — December 17, 2018 @ 11:38 am

  2265. Greetings,

    The website was down briefly this morning but as you can see, it has returned. Thanks to Craig Sprout for fixing the problem.

    Seasons Greetings to all!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 18, 2018 @ 12:52 pm

  2266. I would like to say Merry Christmas and a Happy . Healthy and wealthy New Years to all of my fellow veterans and their families and especially to us Holabird alumni both students and perm party. Stay healthy my friends,

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — December 23, 2018 @ 12:28 pm

  2267. Merry Christmas to all who served at Ft. Holabird and beyond. A distant past and an instant fond memory for most of us to cherish. A special thanks to Phil
    Ostrander for keeping us informed and forwarding interesting material.
    May God bless you all!
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — December 23, 2018 @ 10:11 pm

  2268. “And to all a good night.” Jim created a social site before Zuckerberg et.al. He above all others deserves a medal.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 24, 2018 @ 6:02 am

  2269. Holiday greetings from Honolulu. It should be a ratty balmy 80 on Christmas so no freezing here. There may be snow however on the island of Hawaii so in the 50th state it may be 80 to around freezing so we may have a little of everything. Happy Holidays to all of you Holabird survivors. Best wishes in the coming year!!
    Wayne A.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — December 24, 2018 @ 3:32 pm

  2270. Auld Lang Syne or for the sake of old times,

    Whether you served in Vietnam, Korea, Germany, Okinawa, Japan, various assignments in the U.S., or at other locations, thank you for your service and sacrifice.

    Happy New Year to all of my Brothers and Sisters in M.I.!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 30, 2018 @ 3:26 pm

  2271. Happy holidays to all my fellow MI brothers and sisters and Holabird graduates! May 2019 bring health and happiness for all.
    A special thanks to Phil for all he does to keep this site interesting and informative!
    Happy New Year!

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 30, 2018 @ 7:21 pm

  2272. With the close of 2018 we now have passed another milestone. Last year was the 100th year anniversary of the opening of Fort Holabird in 1918. It also represents the fact that it has been over 45 years since the post closed in 1973. Now, very little remains as it appears to be a shadow of the bustling barracks of what was then an installation of 3000 troops, once filled with brilliant young men ready to tackle the world. Its impact and their effects on the history of our great country remain to be seen.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 2, 2019 @ 10:26 am

  2273. @J bone: Your comments keep getting stuck in moderation because you are not using the same username. If you stick with “james h bone,” you should be OK. The moderation filters should let those through.

    Comment by mtsprout — January 3, 2019 @ 9:27 am

  2274. re: 2235-
    Manny, I “split” the ‘Bird in the Spring of ’62. Was at Buffalo (NY) FO ’til July 63, TUSLOG Det 27 (Turkey) ’til my Euro-out in December 64.
    Never came across another spook until last spring, Alan “Charlie” Brown at a Marathon station on SR 11 out in the puckerbrush just south of the NC-SC line.
    H’it’s been a mite lonely before the ‘net and this fine bunch.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — January 5, 2019 @ 10:57 pm

  2275. Bill (2274),
    Welcome back “out of the cold”. We have reunions here in the either. Really enjoy the creativity.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 6, 2019 @ 8:29 am

  2276. Oh My God! What a Hoot!! Sgt E-5; 97B4H Mil Intel Spec; Class B-6; 12 Oct 64 to 2 Feb 65; FTX Committee 9 Feb 65 to 27 Jul 67. Bob Scharbert #60 and I were roommates. I worked a few days week at the post theater as a projectionist. I remember the aerial photo classes and I occasionally ran the projector in the class. Foot surveillance exercises downtown Baltimore. Bob and I bought 100 CC Yamaha motorcycles. Married girl from Baltimore (Lutherville) 2 days after separation. Bob Fleischmann? Ross Schnetter? I have a few pics form exercises at Fort Howard and inside the FTX building

    Comment by Michael Burnham — January 6, 2019 @ 6:04 pm

  2277. Michael B.,

    Welcome to this site! Glad to have you onboard! I am a Baltimore native and still reside here, married a local gal (Eastwood), took the photo class in 1970, did foot surveillance exercises as well, and completed FTX’s at Ft. Howard. If you want to share some of your pics, please provide your email address on this site or email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander
    Former Special Agent
    1968 – 1971

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 8, 2019 @ 9:55 pm

  2278. well. gone again

    Comment by j. bone — January 18, 2019 @ 12:41 pm

  2279. Greetings! After basic at Ft. Knox and AIT at Ft. Gordon, I was one of, as I recall, 8 who were assigned to the 217th Military Police Detachment at Ft. Holabird in Aug. 1969, replacing short-timer mechanics who were filling in as MPs. Performed routine patrol duty for a couple weeks, then was asked, “Do you know how to type?” I did, so, “You’re on the desk!” We weren’t busy enough to need both a desk sgt. and desk clerk at all times so I became the detachment clerk, M-F 8-5, handling that variety of duties, often involving requesting orders thru personnel at headquarters. Had my car, so we would frequently go off post for food or entertainment. A buddy had family in Fairfax, VA, sometimes visited there weekends and explored D.C. Great duty, the civilians and military in intelligence never gave us much trouble, 11 months, made rank fast, never heard of anyone getting levied for RVN with less than a year to go, but finished my time with the 218th MP Co. at Camp McDermott, Nha Trang.

    Comment by Gale Langford — January 21, 2019 @ 5:44 pm

  2280. j.bone,

    Almost but not quite!

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — February 3, 2019 @ 8:37 am

  2281. Do we have any 96c’s following this site?
    Just wondering where you might have been stationed after graduating from the Bird.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 5, 2019 @ 9:41 am

  2282. Gary(2280): What is a 96c?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 7, 2019 @ 6:06 am

  2283. Manny,
    96C is the Interrogator MOS

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 7, 2019 @ 5:31 pm

  2284. I was a 97B and was at the Bird from about February thru July of 1967. I had originally enlisted in spring of 1966 but because of buildup could not go active until January of 1967. Initially I was to go to VN but was reroute a couple of months before shipping out to Washington, dc, and assigned to the 902nd and the Counterintelligence Analysis Branch. I left the service as an E6 at the end of 1969 after a fascinating tour in and around the pentagon doing intelligence briefings as an “area expert”. My closest friends have since died and just wondering if any one out there had similar tour.

    Comment by joel wilcox kunkler — February 8, 2019 @ 6:30 pm

  2285. I graduated from U. of Michigan Law School in 1967 and enlisted at age 25 for MI because I didn’t want to incur more than a 3 year service obligation. Graduated in the 68-B-16 agent class as a Sgt E-5 and got orders for 47 weeks of Japanese language school. However, the Legal Section in the Department of CI at Holabird needed a legal instructor at that time and asked if I would like to have my orders changed. I agreed, got instructor qualified, and was on the faculty until my ETS date in December 1970, teaching dozens of enlisted and officer classes; foreign officer classes; and Advanced Course classes. I loved the teaching. After leaving the service I worked in what is the Office of the Attorney General for the District of Columbia 9 years and have been in private practice since then in Maryland and the District of Columbia.

    Comment by George Masson — February 12, 2019 @ 4:44 pm

  2286. I received an e-mail about joint training between the U.S. and Japan and it reminded me
    of a class we had of Senior Foreign Officers in June 1966 at Holabird. Then, “The Six Day War” broke out and the MPs had to come and break up the fights in the class room. They had to cancel the class and send all of the students home.
    Just another interesting day at Fort Holabird.
    It’s been more than 50 years and I still miss the place!
    I love this site.

    Comment by Bill Leach — February 14, 2019 @ 10:18 pm

  2287. Bill (2283)

    What were they fighting about anyhow?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 15, 2019 @ 11:20 am

  2288. Now this is the kind of post I like. What was the fighting about? Neither the US or Japan were directly involved. Also , I think the six day war was in June 1967.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — February 15, 2019 @ 8:26 pm

  2289. It had nothing to do with Japan and the USA,that is now. It just reminded me of the mingling of different countries for training purposes. You never know what will happen. It was in June 1967. The six day war was between the Arabs and the Israelis. The Senior Foreign Officers class was made up of both the Israelis and Arab officers. Words were exchanged and tempers flared and then they came to blows.

    Comment by Bill Leach jr — February 15, 2019 @ 10:42 pm

  2290. Bill,

    Who won? Should not our erstwhile CIC agents have been able to predict a problem between the Israelis and Arabs? Especially at such an inflammable time when all the signs were overt as hell?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 16, 2019 @ 2:57 pm

  2291. The Israelis won the war in 6 days. Thus the name “six day war”.
    Wikipedia has a good recount of it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

    Comment by bill leach — February 16, 2019 @ 11:12 pm

  2292. Bill,
    Sorry I was unclear. Who won the fight at the senior foreign officers class? Not the six day war but the Holabird class.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 17, 2019 @ 5:04 pm

  2293. Sorry Manny, I should have known better. I don’t know who won. I was in S2 Troop Command on the first floor of the student barracks building at the time. We just heard about it through the “grapevine”.

    Comment by bill leach — February 17, 2019 @ 8:45 pm

  2294. Well, now we still have to wonder who won. We all know who won the Six Day War. It was the fight in The Senior Officers Class that peaked our interest. I read Bill’s post too quickly and thought the class was made up of Japanese and US senior officers. Couldn’t figure out why they were fighting.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — February 19, 2019 @ 6:22 pm

  2295. Well, now we still have to wonder who won. We all know who won the Six Day War. It was the fight in The Senior Officers Class that peaked our interest. I read Bill’s post too quickly and thought the class was made up of Japanese and US senior officers. Couldn’t figure out why they were fighting.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — February 19, 2019 @ 6:23 pm

  2296. I was there in the end of 1967 and beginning of 1968 and thought most of the Senior officers were South American. By the way in the 1967 War between Israel and Syria an Israeli Tank unit captured the entire Golan Heights in less than three hours by running right up the middle and then turning around on the Syrian in placed defensive positions that were all pointed downhill in the wrong direction. If interested read up on it.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — February 20, 2019 @ 3:34 pm

  2297. I have a class roster from the next graduating SFO class from December 1967. (I was on one of the Color Guard teams). The roster has officers from Thailand, Belgium, Philippines, Norway, Spain, Greece, Japan, Korea, Indonesia and a few other countries. Maybe the next class was mostly from South America.
    The guest speaker that day was Major General Wesley C. Franklin Deputy Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence.

    Comment by bill leach jr — February 20, 2019 @ 10:57 pm

  2298. Bill I only remember some officers crossing the Colgate bridge speaking Spanish. I am sure your records are more accurate.

    Comment by daryl Petrarca — February 21, 2019 @ 3:35 pm

  2299. Daryl – According to Bill there were officers from Spain (who spoke Spanish) and even some of the people in the Philippines speak with a Spanish influenced language.

    Comment by jack widmaier — February 21, 2019 @ 8:30 pm

  2300. As a member of the honor guard, I attended probably 50 or 60 graduations but I only have 2 graduation programs. I have my own graduation program and one from the class of SFO 68-SO-1 that I referenced in post #2297.
    I wish I had saved one from every ceremony I was part of but hindsight is 20/20. I probably attended many ceremonies of the posters to this site.

    Comment by bill leach jr — February 21, 2019 @ 10:58 pm

  2301. Thanks to Joel Wilcox Kunkler, #2284 and George Masson, # 2285 for posting their bio postings on the website. This adds to the tally of our brethren who have submitted bios in the past. If you haven’t done so already, please add your information to the collection on this site.

    This past week in an unrelated matter, I submitted a letter to the editor of the Dundalk Eagle which they posted in their Thursday edition. The following is an excerpt from what was printed.

    Something that I love about Dundalk is its history. One aspect was the fact that we had our own army base right on Dundalk Ave., from 1918 to 1974, Fort Holabird. It was established as the Army’s first motor training transport center and depot during WWI. Thousands were trained to drive and repair different military vehicles including the first Jeeps. During WWII, it was the largest Army Signal Depot. It also contained the US Army Intelligence School and Counter-Intelligence Records Facility from 1945 until 1972, when it closed.

    In summary, Fort Holabird was an integral part of the Dundalk-East Baltimore community for well over 50 years. Today, Fort Holabird is largely part of the memories of those who served, worked, and interacted with the post and its personnel.

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — February 22, 2019 @ 10:46 pm

  2302. USAINTS 1959-1963 – as draftee.
    Upon assignment to the Pentagon shuffling TS papers, a bunk-mate at Ft.Myer penned this short poem: “I’m so important I could swagger; I know thing to make you stagger. I’m 90% cloak, and 10% dagger. Boo, boo, baby – I’m a spy!”

    Anyone remember the name of the Command General at Holibird during this time period? Among other stellar accomplishment, he was instrumental is saving what is not BWI from being closed in favor of Dulles.

    Comment by james s lambert — March 24, 2019 @ 11:40 am

  2303. It has been a month since the last posting (Phil’s). I can’t seem to come up with a damn thing. I just want this site to last as it is the closest thing we have to unit reunion. I suspect that Holabird is our one thing in common. Any ideas?

    I have never heard from anyone from my era since my original posting second to Jim’s original.

    Phil, your Dundalk Eagle article is very well written and thank you for Bill Leaches newspaper article.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — March 26, 2019 @ 4:08 pm

  2304. Manny and Guys,

    I have two ideas that we could discuss related to military history, not necessarily about MI or Fort Holabird and I invite your comments.

    Today, I read an article in my local newspaper, the Catonsville Times, entitled, “Matter of Conscience”. It concerns conscientious objectors who worked during WWII at a state park that currently sits behind my house. In that period, up to 94 men worked there as part of the Civilian Public Service clearing pathways, surveying properties and building pavilions, among other projects. Across the country, their number would ultimately increase to 12,000 men in 150 camps. Some of these men wanted to do risky things to prove their worth, so they volunteered in firefighting units, took part in medical experiments, and served in mental hospitals.

    I am proud of the military service that was provided by my father and my grandfather in both World Wars as well as my ancestor listed below, however, this article gave me more detail as to what others did during WWII.

    The second topic involves a distant relative of mine, Adoniram Parrot, who fought in the Revolutionary War. He served as a foot soldier from 1776 to 1783. He saw action during the following battles: Westfield, Short Hills, Brandywine, Monmouth, Germantown, Whitemarsh, Staten Island, Springfield, and finally, the surrender of the British at Yorktown. He also fought in the War of 1812. Records show that he attained the rank of Corporal as rank was harder to attain during that period.

    In Manny’s posting above mine, #2302, he mentioned an article that Bill Leach had found on the Fort Holabird Facebook website. It is from the now defunct New York Journal American newspaper, published in February 1966, about various types of MI training that was done at Holabird at that time. If you have trouble locating it on Facebook, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net and I will send you a copy.

    Manny, thanks for the continual dedication that you have shown to this website since Jim Flynn started it many years ago.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 27, 2019 @ 9:07 pm

  2305. re: 2235- Manny, I was in for a single tour. Went in 19 Sept 61 with the Berlin Crisis call-up. Finished up with the Army of the United States on 7 Dec 61 and re-upped 15 minutes later in the United States Army in order to be able to remain at the ‘Bird. My European “out” came. again, on Pearl Harbor Day in ’64.
    I had a job lined up at Adam Opel A.G. in Russelsheim but Germany in winter is so damned depressing, my father had died while I was in Turkey and, frankly, I was a little homesick for the good old US of A so Maureen and I bought tickets home on PanAm.
    Guess it was New Year’s Day when we flew back on a B-707 with, get this, seven passengers. Oh, well, they were carrying mail so Uncle Sugar picked up the tab for the vacant seats.
    As an aside, a cold front had gone through and the air over the North Atlantic was crystal clear but horrendously turbulent. Strange as it sounds, the lighter a plane is, the lower the turbulence penetration speed. No weight means it can be tossed around enough to sustain structural damage… like rip the engines off the pylons? Not good.
    We were in the 30 thousands with full flaps and gear down just to keep the speed around 150 knots. Even the “stews” were strapped in. It was the ride from Hell.
    The skipper finally got clearance to deviate from his filed flight plan and we turned due north. After about 20 more minutes of getting hammered, things smoothed out. The plane was cleaned up and fed more oil. After another half hour or so, we nearly reversed course and came due south into the States via Hudson Bay! Probably never get that ride again.
    When we got to JFK and had to wait for a ride from NJ to come pick us up, I nearly went nuts wanting to crack some heads of grungy kids slouching around in order to beat into them just how LUCKY they were to be born in and living in the US.
    Hey, Phil, I tried to help out tho’ I realize that this really stretches any ties to the ‘Bird.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — March 27, 2019 @ 9:52 pm

  2306. Bill Schulz and Friends:
    Bill, thanks for the anecdotes. This is exactly the type of history (as Phil notes above) that we need to keep the site “human”.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 28, 2019 @ 5:05 am

  2307. Bill,

    Thanks so much for your entry. As Manny said, because we are spread out all accross CONUS and overseas, this is the closest means we have to a unit reunion. Please keep your postings coming. This site is where our history comes alive.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 28, 2019 @ 8:10 am

  2308. Oh, and a sad note-
    A fellow I went through both basic at Jackson and the ‘Bird, a fellow Bergen County-er (NJ), Clifford J. Kuchenmeister, went to be with his Maker about a year and a half ago.
    Cliff was another Jersey boy, from New Milford and, as far as I know, once he got his “tiles,” lived at home working out of a nearby 108th INTC Grp FO doing BIs for his whole tour. He helped Maureen and me move from Arlington (VA) to Eastern Blvd where We lived off-post during my Basic Agent and DASE courses.
    Funny incident- During basic a couple of days after having taken our written tests, Cliff and I and eight other troops from other companies, were hauled in a deuce-‘n-a-half out to Bldg 4164 somewhere in the puckerbrush of SC. We didn’t know what was going on but when we walked into one of those pyramidal command-type tents we nudged each other and said “This looks pretty good!” Everyone was in civvies. We got the pitch for INTC… well, CIC at the time, and agreed to come out for more tests. We said “OK” and hey gave us a military taxi requisition for several days hence.
    As instructed, after lunch on the appointed day, Cliff and I went to the Day Room and handed the req to the clerk who called for the vehicle. Then in walks SGT Johnson. He picked up the req and asked what in hell Bldg 4164 was and told us that we damn recruits didn’t ride in Army taxies. We said it was the local CIC office. This blustery and handsome really black dude of a DI faded a few shades and told the clerk to “Get ’em the damn taxi!”
    We had no further problem with the good SGT Johnson who thereafter was a pleasant “pussy cat” who generally greeted us with “Hello, CIC.”
    I’ve got a couple of more stories having to do with Jackson but I don’t want to blow the whole wad in one shot!

    Comment by Bill Schulz — March 28, 2019 @ 9:01 pm

  2309. Just to add another story to this site, I remember taking a tour of what was then CRF (counterintelligence records facility) as a student in the coordinators course in 1965. I was amazed at the number of dossiers, they told us it was at 11 million. When I finished my enlistment in 1968 there were about 15 million. After graduation, I was assigned to the new USAINTS S-2 and eventually had access to the dossiers. I would deliver a Request for Dossier (DA 1144) and the next day it would be waiting for me at the desk. I would review it and take notes if needed and we would deiced if a clearance (DA Form 873)should be issued or validated. Most of the dossiers were boring but once in a while I would come across one that was very interesting. If I had any doubts, I would take it back to our office and we would work together and make a decision. We had to do this for every student and all permanent party (military and civilians). Some of them were considered “sensitive” and were kept in the “vault”. I couldn’t take them back to my office but had to look at them at a desk in the vault area. Because I had access to CRF, my dossier was kept in the vault and I could not see it. The vault was controlled by a civilian woman and she kept tight control over it.
    OK, I’m sure other posters have more interesting stories to tell. Let’s keep this site going. There are no “new” Holabird grads coming.
    Bill Leach Jr

    Comment by bill leach — March 28, 2019 @ 9:42 pm

  2310. Today is National Vietnam War Veterans Day!

    A salute to all of those veterans who served during the Vietnam War Era, 1955 – 1975. Thank you for your service and sacrifice!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 29, 2019 @ 8:23 am

  2311. Since the youngest of us who experienced Fort Holabird are in our late 60s I don’t think many more newcomers to the website are likely if they haven’t found it yet. I have posted on the website for about 9 years and still have not connected with anyone from my class in 1967. I guess its time to rehash some old posts. Bill’s post 2308 reminded me of my earlier post (see 248, 250, 251). Bill was my dossier one of the interesting ones or not? I’m sure not to many people listed communists as their references.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 29, 2019 @ 3:46 pm

  2312. Daryl,
    We had to get a bigger file cabinet just for your numerous dossiers! 😉

    Comment by bill leach jr — March 29, 2019 @ 9:25 pm

  2313. In 1956 [Jan. – April], I attended the special agent’s course. As you alums know, It was 7 1/2 hours per day, five days a week. All instruction was oral with no text books, no handouts, no written material. Our class notes had to remain in our classroom desk.

    Instructors varied from John Sweeney to under-performing teachers. Mr. Sweeney taught an outstanding course on Communism. Was he still there in the 1960s?

    One day in class, an under-performing instructor and a student got into an intense argument. The next day, a captain [never one of our instructors] opened the class by requesting that each of us describe the previous day’s argument. The next day several of us were called out of class by the captain for a further discussion in his office. Never heard any more about the incident.

    Later, an under-performing instructor was boring me to the extent of my being restless. Being in the last row where I couldn’t bother anyone behind me, I was “restless” to the extent that the instructor called on me. He grilled me on his recent material and when I correctly answered all his questions he was fuming. After a second or two of silence, quick-thinking Wallace asked a question that defused the situation.

    After class I doubly thanked Wallace for saving me. Wallace was probably the top student in our class [100% on the first two tests]. Unfortunately for CIC he was the only one in our class to not receive a TS clearance because he had spent two years in England on a Fulbright scholarship.

    PS – Did any of you encounter TS material? Once, I was told data that was said to be TS.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 30, 2019 @ 12:27 pm

  2314. Bernie,

    Never did but suspected there may have been such in the file cabinets we permanent party peons “guarded” on top of our regular jobs (kp, guard duty,etc.). We really didn’t care. Mostly draftees with a sprinkling of “get it over with” enlistees serving their two or three years. We had little interest in, or contact with the “students”, going through. Most of us where to cynical to really care. Good or bad this was it. Holabird for us was an extension, albeit a far better experience, of the rest of our Army experience. Looking back we should have kissed Uncle Sam for sending us there (for whatever reason), but on second thought that, back in the day, that would have cost us our TS clearance and a “back conduct” discharge or worse.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 31, 2019 @ 8:32 am

  2315. Just reread my post. Boy am I screwing up in my old-age. Add an “o” to the “to” before cynical in line three and change the “ck” to a “d” in in “back conduct” in the last line.
    Bernie, we were at Holabird the same time. I was the “shlep” wandering around trying to keep out of trouble.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 31, 2019 @ 9:48 am

  2316. Manny,
    Your memory is going also. See entry #3. My memory is improving. I now remember his name – Wallace [surname].

    Those were the days. I’m with you. Let’s keep this blog thread going – don’t worry about mistakes. I didn’t even notice them.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 1, 2019 @ 11:37 am

  2317. Regarding my post 2310, I am certainly getting older. I should have referenced my earlier posts 848, 850,851, 852. instead of 248, 250, 251. Then the the comment would have made more sense. Don’t know what happened “senior moment”?? maybe.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 1, 2019 @ 2:48 pm

  2318. A few weeks ago I attended a luncheon in NYC o with the New York CIC Association (NYC) at the Stout, an Irish pub. Nine members were scheduled to attend but only six made it that afternoon. Our ages are starting to catch up with us. Its been 50 years ago I was at Fort Holibird in the Area Intelligence course. We did have a good time relating stories of our military experiences and catching up.
    I recommend, any one who visited this site, to join the National Counter Intelligence Corps Association. I promotes the “Silent Warriors” of America’s Secret Army. They have a national convention yearly in different parts of the country and some regional associations. They publish a semi annual newsletter that has very informative articles written by members. The newsletter is worth the annual dues if you like reading this blog. If you are interested go to ncica.org to visit its website and download an application. An interesting thing was just written by the web coordinator in which he has the ability to track the web site to determine precisely who the visitors are. It has been his continued observation that the Red Chinese visit the site weekly and sometimes every other day. The Russians only monthly.
    If you do join, please put a note on the application as it was me who recruited you.
    Jim Wiles

    Comment by jJm Wiles — April 2, 2019 @ 6:33 pm

  2319. A few weeks ago I attended a luncheon in N:YC with the New York CIC Association (NYC) at the Stout, an Irish Pub. Nine members indicated they would attend but only six could make it that day. Its been 50 years ago I was attending the Area Intelligence Course so a lot of us are not getting around like we used to. We did have a good time telling stories or our assignments and catching up.
    I recommend any one who visits this site to join the National Counter Intelligence Corps Association. It promotes the “Silent Warriors” of America’s Secret Army. They have a national convention every year in different parts of the country and also have a semi annual newsletter that is very interesting. If you like reading this blog you will enjoy the newsletter. Many members write stories of their experiences or related military intelligence interest. The membership is worth the newsletter.
    If you are interested go to NCICA.org to visit its website. An interesting thing was just written by the website coordinator in which he has the ability to track the website to determine precisely who the visitors are. It has been his continued observation that the Red Chinese visit the site weekly and sometimes every other day. The Russians only visit monthly.
    If you do join, a copy of the application is on the website to down load, would you attach a note indicating I recruited you.
    Thanks,
    Jim Wiles
    PS This is the second time I tried to post this comment.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — April 3, 2019 @ 9:36 am

  2320. I give up on trying to post to this site.

    Comment by jack widmaier — April 3, 2019 @ 8:01 pm

  2321. Tried to ask Jim a question about post #2318. Rejected 5 times.

    Comment by jack widmaier — April 3, 2019 @ 8:05 pm

  2322. Jack,

    You should contact Craig Sprout, the website troubleshooter, so he can assist you with your posting questions. He can be reached at Csprout@gmail.com

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 3, 2019 @ 9:17 pm

  2323. Tried again with no success. Is there a sensor on this site that deletes posts about certain subjects?

    Comment by jack widmaier — April 4, 2019 @ 10:19 am

  2324. when I post something and it doesn’t
    get posted, and then try again, I get a message saying I already posted the message. Are certain subjects of catch words censored?

    Comment by jack widmaier — April 4, 2019 @ 10:25 am

  2325. Thats strange, now its posted twice. Jack, if you have a question you can email me at jimwiles3@gmail.com

    Comment by Jim Wiles — April 5, 2019 @ 10:50 am

  2326. To Bill Leach – nice to see you on this site. I was the Group Leader of our Coordinator class in 1965. I’ve tried to post on this site before but for some reason, my posts do not appear.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 8, 2019 @ 12:53 am

  2327. 2326- Hi Tony, I remember the name but can’t remember you. After all, it has been 54 years! Where did you go after graduation? 22 of us from our class stayed at Holabird for the next almost 3 years.

    Comment by bill leach jr — April 9, 2019 @ 9:22 pm

  2328. Bill, wow, great to hear back from you. I didn’t think my comment got posted – none of the others have. Anyway, I went to Germany. I had volunteered for Vietnam and got orders to go but two weeks prior to graduating I was called in to Personnel and told that my VN orders had been rescinded. I was given a choice of pretty much anywhere in the world.

    So I chose Germany and ended up with the 531st MI Company which was a collection unit. I was loaned to the 513th MI Group for a few months but then went out to two different Area Studies Field Teams. It was excellent duty. Wore civilian clothes the entire time and lived in a house or an apartment.

    A few other guys from our class went to Germany too. Phil Pasco, Jimmy Turner, Bob Hansen were among them. Only bad thing was that we went over on a ship – ugh!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 10, 2019 @ 12:31 am

  2329. For Duane A. Rasmussen (post# 888 on 2/18/13): You mentioned several names of CIC guys that you served with in the Canal Zone. One of them was a Henry Lopez.

    I knew a guy named Henry Lopez way back in the mid 60s. In fact, he’s the one that steered me towards Army Intelligence. He told me that he had served in the CIC at the Canal Zone.

    Henry was quite a bit older than me and at the time he was a Narcotics Agent for the California State Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement (BNE).

    After I completed my active duty tour in 1968, I hooked up with Henry again. He was still an Agent working around the San Francisco Bay Area. He took me around the area and we met up with various Law Enforcement agencies where I did undercover drug buys for them. Eventually, I got hired with a LE Agency and lost track of Henry though I heard about him now and then.

    The last time I saw him was in 1988 or 89. He was living in Dublin, CA and was getting close to retiring. Sad to say that he was drinking heavily and that worried me. At the time I was dealing with my own crisis caused by a serious on duty injury that cost me my career and nearly broke up my marriage. I lost track of Henry but I owe him alot.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 10, 2019 @ 5:16 pm

  2330. Hi Tony,

    As an unofficial greeter, I would like to welcome you to the Parkway Restop website! I was welcomed to this site back in 2013 by a fellow agent, Gary Miller, whom I have never met except on-line. Please share more about your background with us? Did you ETS in Germany? Where do you currently reside? What have you been doing since the late 1980’s?

    Regards,

    Phil Ostrander
    1968 – 1971
    (Years of service)

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 10, 2019 @ 6:01 pm

  2331. Phil (#2330) – I’ve tried posting the info that you requested 2 or 3 times but it won’t post. Actually, when I found this forum on/about Nov 1, 2018, I tried posting several times but it wouldn’t let me. I’m having the same problem again.
    Help!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 11, 2019 @ 11:04 pm

  2332. Hi Tony,

    I am sorry that you are having trouble. Please email Craig Sprout, site troubleshooter, at Csprout@gmail.com and he will be glad to assist you.

    Good luck,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 12, 2019 @ 7:24 am

  2333. Phil, I got help before in November when I had trouble then but it still did not work. But after giving it some thought, I’m thinking that maybe my “Introduction” post might be too long.

    My shorter posts seem to post okay. I might try to do my Intro in two parts to see if that works before I contact Craig. Thanks, Tony

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 12, 2019 @ 1:26 pm

  2334. Tony,

    You may be onto something. If you still have trouble, please give Craig a shout. He is great in assisting people with challenges about posting on this site.

    In the meantime, give me a holler at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 12, 2019 @ 3:13 pm

  2335. Enlisted in Feb 1965, in Oakland, CA. Basic at Ft.Polk, LA. Arrived at Ft. Holabird in late April 65 and started the Agent Course in mid May 65.

    Unfortunately, during the last week of the 15 week course, I got very ill and was unable to attend class and was not allowed to graduate with the others.

    I was given a choice of joining another Agent Class that would start 3 weeks later or join a Coordinator Class that was starting in late Aug 65. I went with the Coordinator class as I was anxious to leave the B’bird.

    Volunteered for Vietnam but ended up in Germany. I was allowed to choose a unit in Germany. I went to the 531st MI Company (Collection). Initially worked at Frankfurt Station before going to Nurnberg Field Team and then Kassel Field Team. I wore civilian clothes the entire time in Germany. Our unit had an Area Studies (intelligence collection) mission. I thoroughly enjoyed my stay and duties in Germany.

    I separated from active duty at Ft Dix, NJ in late Jan. 1968, and returned home to California.

    Entered law enforcement on April 1, 1968, with the Alameda Co. Sheriff’s Dept. Then got hired by Union City PD from which I retired in late 1988. Worked for a year as a Federal Investigator. Then worked for the Alameda Co. Public Defender’s Office in Oakland and retired from that agency in late 2005.

    My wife & I live in rural Solano County, California which is midway between Oakland and Sacramento, CA.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 13, 2019 @ 6:16 pm

  2336. Tony,

    Thanks so much for providing your bio and for joining our team! It was most interesting how everything turned out the best for you in spite of an early illness that could have sidetracked others.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 13, 2019 @ 6:31 pm

  2337. Phil, it finally worked! I had to shorten my bio quite a bit. After I returned to the First Sgt’s office with the note from the Dispensary that I was cleared to return to class, The Company Commander was there too.

    They told me that I would not be graduating with the others in the Agent Class and my heart sank. I knew two guys in other classes that were failing their courses. One of them (Analyst Course) was terminated and sent to Tanker School. The other guy, in a Coordinator Course, was sent to Mortician Assistant Course.

    So I was very worried. But I was doing very well in my Agent class and that helped keep me in the Intelligence Corps, I think. And allowed me to stay and attend one of the classes. I’m forever thankful to the Captain and 1st Sergeant for that .

    BTW, I was assigned to be Group Leader for the Coordinator Course that I graduated with. And at graduation, I received a Letter of Commendation from the Captain as well as a promotion to PFC!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 13, 2019 @ 10:22 pm

  2338. Tony,
    Thanks for the bio. I find all of this absolutely fascinating.
    I really never knew how bright and accomplished our “posters” are. Phil, thanks for all your efforts keeping us on- line and together. I love personal histories. It makes us human (whatever else we could be?).
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 14, 2019 @ 7:17 am

  2339. Tony,

    You certainly had an amazing career. Your persistence paid off. Anyone else out there in hyperspace, we would sure like to hear from you. As Manny, our senior statesman, has said, we love the personal stories. Each of us has led such interesting careers, some intelligence or law enforcement related and some not.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 14, 2019 @ 9:14 am

  2340. In the last several years, DNA testing has identified suspects in more than 60 cases, most of them long cold. All of the DNA came from relatives, none from the suspects. [Bloomberg Businessweek, April 15, 2019].

    Do you think that our fingerprints for our TS clearance from 40-60 years ago are in a computer database and could be used to identify us? I had a TS clearance for 30 years, but don’t ever remember having my fingerprints taken a second time – poor memory?

    Do any of you remember Vern Lusk. We worked at the same company, he in security. He was CIC and retired from the army as a major. I regret that we never exchanged war stories.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 15, 2019 @ 11:11 am

  2341. When you were fingerprinted for your BI, a set was forwarded to the FBI for a records check. I’m sure they still have a digital copy.

    Comment by bill leach jr — April 15, 2019 @ 3:39 pm

  2342. Yesterday, l attended a meeting of the local historical society in Dundalk where author, Christopher Formant, spoke about his latest book, “Saving Washington”. It features how two fictional characters fought in an actual conflict, the Battle of Brooklyn, NY, on August 27, 1776, describing how through their efforts they were able to delay a British attack that could have destroyed General Washington’s army.

    I am reading it now and recommend it. It can be purchased on Amazon for under $30.00 in hardback edition.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 16, 2019 @ 1:53 pm

  2343. To Bill Leach Jr – I saw that another guy that was in our class posted on this blog. His name is Dwight Zimpel #1677.

    Today, while looking through my Army stuff, I came across our class roster, “Military Intelligence Coordinator Course”, Training Group 66-C-2, 30 Aug 65 – 22 Oct 65.

    The class had 48 students and I was the Group Leader with Phil Pasco as the Asst Group Leader.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 19, 2019 @ 10:46 pm

  2344. Anthony (Tony) Blondell – I don’t remember if someone on this blog or on the Ft Holabird Facebook page mentioned Tony Blondell’s name.

    I was fortunate enough to have known him and work with Tony. He was assigned to our Kassel Field Team (531st MI Co – Collection) for the last part of 1967 & early 68.

    Tony had an incredible and almost unbelievable background. He was one of those guys that you read about in action novels. He did whatever it took to get the job done, regardless of what was involved. And he was fearless!

    He was one of those guys that will get whatever supplies or equipment you need but more importantly, he was one of the “Operators” of our time – a real Badass!

    I recently came across an espionage book written by an Anthony Blondell. I hope that it’s the same Tony Blondell that I knew. I ordered the book but have yet to receive it and I can’t wait to read it!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 19, 2019 @ 11:06 pm

  2345. Tony,
    I have the graduation booklet of our class.
    I can send you a copy if you send me your e-mail address.
    Mine is: oldwjljr@yahoo.com (no caps).

    Comment by bill leach je — April 20, 2019 @ 10:20 am

  2346. This past Friday, I traveled 30 minutes south of my home to Fort Meade, MD for an appointment with a VA Optometrist. This is the first time that I had been on this post in many years. Meade was established in 1917, the same year as the founding of Fort Holabird, and was the HQ for the First Army Division East until that designation was moved to Fort Knox, KY after 2007. It is the 2nd largest installation by employee population in the US Army. It has 54,000 service members and civilians and is the largest employer in MD. In 1977, the US Army Intelligence and Security Command was established there. It includes various battalions, brigades, and groups as part of its command. The 902nd is the largest and most comprehensive CI unit in the DOD. The “Deuce” protects the Army against foreign intelligence entities through full-spectrum CI investigations, collections, analysis and production, operations, and technical services.

    The above information was obtained from the Fort George G. Meade 2019 Installation Guide and Telephone Book and other internet sources on Ft. Meade.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 21, 2019 @ 4:33 pm

  2347. Phil, thank you for the interesting information regarding Ft. Meade. I had no idea that it was so large and had so many employees!

    The unit that I served with, 531st MI Company, was moved from Germany to Ft. Meade sometime in very late 1968 or early 69, I believe. I completed my active duty committment in Jan 68, while the unit was still in Germany.

    My unit was actively involved in intelligence gathering (human resources) so I’m pretty sure that its operational personnel remained in Germany with the 513th or the 66th MI Groups.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 21, 2019 @ 10:01 pm

  2348. Tony,

    I thank you for your feedback. As large as it is, under BRAC, in 2005, it was once considered for closure. Instead, posts like Fort Monmouth, NJ got the axe. Most of its soldiers were reassigned to Fort Meade as well as Aberdeen Proving Ground, also in MD. Units such as the Defense Information Systems Agency, the Defense Media Activity and the Combined Adjudication Facility brought thousands of new employees and major construction to the installation.

    The 902nd, mentioned in my last posting, provides theatre strategic to tactical support and covers an area of responsibility from Hawaii to Germany as cited int the Fort Meade Guide and Telephone Book.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 22, 2019 @ 8:27 am

  2349. Bit of trivia. Meade was where personnel from Holabird were sent for things the dispensary at Holabird could not handle. Had two surgeries and some outpatient procedures there. They had a regular army ambulance run there. Thanks for the information Tony and Phil.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2019 @ 4:00 pm

  2350. The mention of Fort Meade reminded me of our week there for training including the 45 automatic and the 38 revolver. We also did some war games – details are vague [1956]. I do remember walking in the hall and overhead that student Jack W. Jensen had been captured and was being interrogated by the enemy/instructor. I stuck my hand into the room and said bang bang – shooting the instructor. He claimed foul and wouldn’t allow it. I left as Jack and the instructor were arguing whether the instructor/interrogator was dead and Jack was free.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 22, 2019 @ 6:57 pm

  2351. Bernie,et.al.,

    Back in the 50’s Ft. Meade Was where they took us for medical procedures as Holabird only had a dispensary. This is where they took us to every 6 months to “requalify” on the M-1 Garand.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 23, 2019 @ 5:06 am

  2352. Manny, Bernie, et al,

    In the late 60’s, we did the same thing with the M16 as Holabird just had a small pistol range opposite the officer’s open mess.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 23, 2019 @ 7:23 am

  2353. I was there from March ’68 thru November ’68 waiting for class and in class. Never had to qualify for any weapons. Permanent party probably did though. When I got to the ROK and the 502nd they just showed me a cabinet where the 38s and 45s were kept and told me to pick one when I needed one. I guess they assumed I knew how to use one.

    Comment by jack widmaier — April 28, 2019 @ 11:16 am

  2354. In the fall of 1968, I qualified on the M16 and the M14 during basic trainiing at Ft. Bragg. In the fall of 1970, we had one day on the rifle range at Ft. Meade on the M16 while in the Photo Intell. Class.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 28, 2019 @ 5:37 pm

  2355. For Bill Leach, Jr. Post# 2345

    Sorry, I had not seen your post until just now. I emailed you a note to your personal email address.

    Thank you!
    Tony

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 28, 2019 @ 10:09 pm

  2356. To Phil Ostrander – this is my regular email address:

    tmont470@yahoo.com

    Tony Montemayor

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 28, 2019 @ 11:24 pm

  2357. Tony,

    I have enjoyed your postings. Thank you for listing your email address.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 29, 2019 @ 7:24 am

  2358. Ref: Bernie Thielen’s question in 2313 about TS material.

    When running an inspection on our (TUSLOG Det 27, “Puckerbrush Junction” 20 miles S of Ankara, Turkey) sub units at Adana, the CO mentioned the target sites we were monitoring from our Navy sourced/flown aircraft (a USN YEA-3A “Grumman Sky Warrior,” largest plane then flown off carrier decks. Pic at http://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8477853).

    Big no-no. Dumb me then memorized the target sites (no paper, that would have been another no-no) figuring I’d make a record of it when I got back to the office and then forget it. Well, here 55 years later, those Rusky names are still firmly planted in my skull. Fortunately, they’ve been de-class’d. Kapustin Yar and Shari Shagan… in case you have a need-to-know former TS material.

    Dumb me- again!- I almost put that info in the inspection’s report which would have made the report TS!

    Sheesh… young and stupid, I guess. Should have taken the O-2 that Uncle offered me. But then, I’d never have seen Turkey after INTC wrote me off. It was a rare opportunity, though. How many of us got to live on the economy, accompanied, in Turkey?

    Oh, in a couple of weeks Maureen and I are flying out to Houston to visit some old friends from Turkey on the event of our host’s 80 b’day. He was a Turk translator who worked with a GI Turkish linguist to make sure both sides were satisfied that no hanky-panky was going on in bi-lingual meetings.

    Atakan had later gone on to those newfangled computers. Came to USA some time later, became a citizen and made a wad! Now has his own plane (a Grumman “Yankee”) and lives in a fly-in community south of HOU. And this guy’s Yankee patriotism puts many of our fellow citizens to BIG, BAD shame!

    ‘Nuff “finger-jawin'” for now.

    Best wishes and blessings, guys and gals.
    Bill

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 5, 2019 @ 6:46 pm

  2359. sorry I have been out of touch lately, the body is beginning to get weaker and weaker. I have developed Peripheral Nephropathy in recent years. the feet hurt like hell. never stops. I have begun to develop fall periodsof falling the last couple of years, I have taken to falling not less tan once a week.. fortunately I have broken no bones or caused no serious injuries to myself or care givers. thanks be for that.. still I remained blessed. neurologist has stopped me from driving. no feeling in my fee. God is still Great. I guess I am one of those rare people who still enjoys his own company. see you next time. j. bone

    Comment by jbone — May 11, 2019 @ 7:10 pm

  2360. Jimmy,

    Welcome back! I am very sorry that you are having some challenges lately. Hang in there as we all age. Recently, I have gotten reports from a few of our fellows offline who are in their mid-80’s or older who have also had falls. One broke his hip.

    God love and keep you!

    All the best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 11, 2019 @ 8:53 pm

  2361. j.bone, et.al.,

    Maybe we could have a reunion at the Cleveland Clinic or the nearby VA (or JohnsHopkin in your case Phil)?

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — May 12, 2019 @ 5:09 am

  2362. Manny, Jimmy et al,

    Last fall, my high school lunch friends got together and there were 7 out of 8 who made it. Last week, for a reunion, we could only muster 3. One of my guys said that we were dropping like flies, still, we soldier on.

    Best always,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 12, 2019 @ 8:18 am

  2363. Let us have faith, their spirits to heaven have flown.
    So today let us offer our love in heartfelt prayer to pray for families whose loved ones have died.
    Lord please place them all, let them know we care.
    Let there be peace for all on this earth who abide.

    Connie Marcum Wong

    Thank you, and may God bless and keep our fallen, our veterans, and active military and the USA.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 27, 2019 @ 8:49 am

  2364. I found this on the web the other night. You might find it interesting.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3A7OwW_Q9w

    Comment by Bill Leach jr — May 29, 2019 @ 2:49 pm

  2365. Reading a book that may be interesting, especially for many of you who served during the Vietnam era. Full of what appears to be CIC folks of one type or another (ASA,CIA, etc.). Title is HONORABLE EXIT by Thurston Clarke. Many references to Army agents in civies, uniforms and everything in between(and neither).

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — June 2, 2019 @ 8:15 am

  2366. RE: comment 2359 I too suffer from peripheral neuropathy and have been taking 300mg of aplpha lipoic acid twice a day and my problem is 90% gone. good luck. This is per my Endocrinologist orders.

    Comment by charles simms — June 2, 2019 @ 6:39 pm

  2367. With tomorrow being the 75th anniversary of D-Day, lets reflect on a few of its memorable events. At Utah Beach, paratrooper units of the 82nd and the 101st Airborne Divisions landed the night before behind enemy lines. Other airborne units landed on D-Day in the village of Ste-Mere Eglise, 15 minutes west of Utah Beach. It was the first town to be liberated by the Americans. Many of these men landed- off target, facing bad weather, heavy anti-aircraft and small arms fire. One U.S. paratrooper, John Steele, played by Red Buttons in the 1962 film, THE LONGEST DAY, dangled from the town’s church steeple for 2 hours (a mannequin now hangs near the spire that snagged his chute). Steele survived his ordeal by playing dead. Today, the 700 year old medieval church holds 2 contemporary stained glass windows honoring the paratroopers who managed to take the town despite a poor start against heavy odds.

    The above information was taken from an article in the March 19th edition of the Baltimore Sun, entitled, “Visiting the Other D-Day Beach: Utah” by Rick Steves.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 5, 2019 @ 9:54 pm

  2368. Well done Phil. We must never forget the sacrifices made that day and all the other days of war.

    Comment by bill leach — June 6, 2019 @ 10:37 am

  2369. Thanks for sharing this history Phil.
    My Dad landed in Normandy on this day 75 years ago. A green 24-year old Ohio native. Many of his buddies didn’t make it past the beachhead. Dad was lucky enough to make it all the way through France and well into Germany before being wounded in Ludwigshafen, Germany and medevac’d to England with a head wound….the snipers bullet entered behind his right ear and exited through his left cheek. The war was over for him then. After the war he enlisted in the Air Corps and was one of the few air force veterans I ever knew who proudly wore the CIB on his air force blues.
    All of these men, as all of my Holabird breathren, were and are true heroes.
    Thanks to all of you.

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 6, 2019 @ 3:07 pm

  2370. Bill and Gary,

    Thank you for your comments on this very important anniversary concerning the costly battle that may have saved the world for democracy. Gary, your father took a bullet for all of us. An oft-used phrase is so true that we stand on the shoulders of those men and women who were the greatest generation.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 6, 2019 @ 9:44 pm

  2371. My late brother in law, Daniel V. Alonzo, was a radio operator on a B-24. He participated in numerous bomb runs over Italy and Germany during WWII. During one of the runs, he was wounded in the face when anti aircraft rounds hit his aircraft.

    He survived the rest of the war and came home to finish college. Dan and my sister, Felice, became my parents after my mom died when I was 13 yrs old and my dad left me to fend for myself. After I enlisted in the Army, Dan and my sister took in my two younger brothers and raised them.

    They did a good job because the three of us boys went on to become police officers and eventually retired from law enforcement. Also, one of my younger brothers is a Vietnam Era veteran like I am.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — June 6, 2019 @ 11:21 pm

  2372. This week, 52 years ago, the Six Day War took place. I was stationed in Nurnberg, Germany. My unit was placed on standby, along with some Special Forces teams, to go and assist the Israeli Army if requested. We gathered all of our equipment and dusted off our uniforms (we were in civilian clothing status) and waited for the call.

    Fortunately, the call never came because Israel kicked the Arabs’ asses in just six days! That was the good part.

    The bad part was that I had to cancel my leave that I had planned to the UK. Being an avid motorcyclist, I had planned to attend the Diamond Jubilee TT motorcycle races on the Isle of Man. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity to see the world’s top motorcycle racers of the day. I was so disappointed about that but very thankful that we did not have to go to war in the desert.

    Were any of you fellow ‘Bird grads involved or put on stand by?

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — June 8, 2019 @ 10:17 pm

  2373. Tony,

    Thanks for that interesting bit of information. I never knew we, the US, were planning to support Israel with troops until reading your post. I wonder if this had to do with Nasser being supplied and supported by the Soviets?

    This site never ends to amaze me, especially for its historical value.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — June 9, 2019 @ 6:53 am

  2374. I have seen no post since Sep 21, 2018

    Comment by James h. bone — June 18, 2019 @ 9:22 pm

  2375. Manny,
    On the lighter side some S/As couldn’t participate. My friend {Ed} was stationed in Japan in 1951-2 as an S/A. At 6’7″ he was told he would never be on a surveillance team in Tokyo since the average Japanese at that time was more than a foot shorter than he. On May Day in those years the Communists held significant demonstrations in many countries. Ed’s job in Tokyo on May 1 was observing the demos with binoculars from a high rise.

    On May Day in 1956 in Korea we strapped on our deadly snub-nosed 38s, jumped in jeeps, and covered the demos. This is the only time I remember that we had two jeeps with four in each jeep. Most of the time we covered demos with one S/A and an interpreter [all other demos that I attended] and no side arm. Of course, I didn’t cover every demo/protest/gathering.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — June 19, 2019 @ 12:43 pm

  2376. 2326 and 2343 I’m sending you an email requesting a copy of our class roster – Training Group 66-C-2, 30 Aug 65 – 22 Oct 65. I ran into one of our classmates in a PX in Saigon in Dec 67. I believe his name was Miller. He was working “in town” if I remember correctly. I was on my way to ICEX/Phoenix at the District/Sub-sector level in Quang Nam Province, I Corp. I was given an 11B slot on a MACV Team as a 97C, eligible for a CIB, but thought I was getting out and didn’t “need it”.

    Comment by Dwight Zimpel — June 27, 2019 @ 1:30 pm

  2377. I wish all of my Holabird brethren a happy and contemplative 4th of July.
    Our U.S.A. Is still the best country to love and cherish.
    I thank you all for your dedicated service to America. May God bless you and you families.
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — July 3, 2019 @ 9:59 pm

  2378. Thanks Ed, I had a great holiday with my family. Thank God for all the vets who came before me and made it possible. God bless America.

    Comment by bill leach jr — July 5, 2019 @ 1:35 am

  2379. Thank you Ed. I too wish all my Holabird brethren a glorious Independence Day and thank you all again for your service to our amazing nation.

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 5, 2019 @ 5:40 pm

  2380. Hello to Ed, Bill, Gary, Bernie, Manny, et al. On this Independence Day weekend, I wanted to share the latest news I obtained about today’s Army from an article in the Dundalk Eagle by Paul M. Blitz, veterans’ affairs writer.

    To say a lot has changed in the past 50 years is an understatement.

    *Basic Training is currently 8 weeks and now includes an FTX and Sexual Harassment Training (SHARP)
    *Pin-ups or other offensive material are prohibited in the barracks
    *Dog Tags are now I.D. Tags
    *Polishing Boots and low-quarters, starching and pressing fatigues are not done anymore. Boots are suede and low-quarters are now plastic. Fatigues are now wash and wear.
    *Rank insignia and patches are no longer sewn on fatigues but are hook and loop by using Velcro.
    *Brasso or Blitz Cloth has been replaced by Stay-Brite Brass which never needs polishing
    *Mess halls have been replaced by dining facilities manned by civilians (no more KP!)
    *The M-14 and the M-16 have been replaced by the M-4 Semi-Automatic Rifle. The .45 caliber pistol is now a 9 mm pistol.
    *The Jeep, replaced by the Humvee, has now been replaced by the Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP). The Deuce and a half and the 5 ton vehicles have been replaced by the Light Medium Tactical Vehicle (LMTV) and the Medium Tactical Vehicle (MTV). Who remembers “I want my MTV!”
    *All Ranks Clubs have taken the place of 1-2-3, NCO, and Officers’ Clubs. Ah fraternization!
    *Wearing the uniform off-post is prohibited, unless you are marching in a parade

    The article further states that these changes are not about political correctness rather that the All-Volunteer Army reflects improvements in technology for safety,
    well-being, and improving the quality of life for soldiers.

    Happy Independence Day!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 6, 2019 @ 4:06 pm

  2381. Phil, thanks for the tip on the article in the Dundalk Eagle. What a fascinating read. I can’t believe some of the changes (fraternization) etc. I know time changes things but some of these old rules were for discipline and respect. 50 years ago, I bitched about most of the old ways but I understood why they were in place.
    Oh well, we still have the greatest fighting machine, God bless them.

    Comment by bill leach jr — July 6, 2019 @ 9:43 pm

  2382. Et.al.,
    Re: 2379,
    The Dundalk Eagle forgot “embedded” females as opposed to WACS.
    Take this anyway you want.
    Thanks Phil.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 7, 2019 @ 7:13 am

  2383. Bill, Manny, Bernie, Gary, Ed, et al,

    Remember the P-38? This one is not the warbird from WWII but rather the small silver hinged can opener that we used to open our C-RATS or Cs. It is no longer needed as we now have MREs (Meals Ready to Eat). They come with a heater in a bag and to make the meal complete, just add water from your camelback. Canteens are also being phased out of use. The MREs, widely sold commercialy, are now available in gormet varieties.

    As we move on to clothing, the Army AG 44 Dress Uniform and overseas cap were replaced with the blue army service uniform (ASU) what was once called “Dress Blues” and a black wool beret. By 2023, the army service uniform will be replaced with the WWII “Brown Shoe Army” “Pink and Green” uniform with jacket belt and Eisenhower Jacket.

    Ed. Note: I still have my original clothing issue plus a 1/2 replica foot locker used to store everything in addition to my duffel bag. Unfortunately, the only things that still fit are the garrison and saucer caps.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 7, 2019 @ 8:32 am

  2384. Phil,Bill,Bernie,Manny,Gary et al,
    Thanks for the updates but not wearing military uniform
    outside the military post is a bit much. I understand you can be a target for certain creatures but it was always nice to see soldier or sailor proudly exhibiting their branch of service.
    Good to hear from you guys again.
    Ed

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — July 7, 2019 @ 9:59 pm

  2385. Ed,, Bill, Bernie, Manny, Gary, et al,

    Currently, no gambling is allowed on post or in the barracks. Violators are subject to UCMJ punishment. This is done to prevent soldiers from losing their pay checks. Other than Poker Chip and Texas Hold’em games, the only card games that are allowed are Five Hundred Rummy, Go Fish, Old Maid, Bull S___, etc.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 8, 2019 @ 9:56 am

  2386. re Phil’s #2378: I cant find one thing on that list that I wouldn’t have liked to have been in effect in our day.

    Comment by jack widmaier — July 8, 2019 @ 8:36 pm

  2387. Jack, Ed, Bill, Bernie, Manny, Gary, et al,

    I saved the most controversial piece of the Dundalk Eagle article about the 2019 Army for last. It reads as follows:

    Soldiers in Basic Training were issued “Stress Cards” for a brief period of time. These were chemically treated cards that would turn blue if pressed by the soldier’s thumb indication that the soldier was feeling stress from the Drill Sergeant. If a soldier was in that condition, he/she would hold up the Stress Card and the Drill Sergeant would have to stop yelling at the soldier, “get out of his/her face”, and remove himself/herself from the soldier’s personal space. This practice has been discontinued.

    No one ever said that Basic was going to be easy.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 10, 2019 @ 10:33 am

  2388. Something else of mine would have turned blue if I tried that on my DI.

    Comment by bill leach jr — July 10, 2019 @ 9:29 pm

  2389. I agree that stress cards, if they really did exist, were obviously dreamed up by either an idiot or a genius, However, if you were drafted you may have reason to be stressed by a drill sergeant, but if you enlisted, then what the hell did you think you were joining? Any enlisted man (or woman) who was stressed out by a drill sergeant should be thankful if they ended up in the intelligence branch of the army, and in a section of the intelligence sector (which would be most sections) that provided no stress. There were a few intelligence MOS positions that did provide stress, but the person stressed out by a drill sergeant didn’t end up in those sections. Had they ended up in a combat section of the army, they would have come home in a box. I think the stress card was a way of weeding out the individuals who could not be depended on in combat or any life or death situation.

    Comment by jack widmaier — July 11, 2019 @ 7:51 pm

  2390. Jack (2387),

    What were the “few intelligence MOS positions that did provide stress”? Perhaps stress is relative and variable. This would make an interesting area of research, i.e., “predicting stress.”
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 12, 2019 @ 5:07 am

  2391. Manny (2388)

    I agree that stress is relative and variable. However, most intelligence positions are carried on in the relative safety of buildings away from actual combat or danger. They involve reviewing and acting on information collected elsewhere. Someone, however, had to collect that information, but even most of that is done from a position of relative safety. This may involve stress from the stand point of having to get work done by deadlines, under the stress of a poor leader (officer, boss) or, if you are at or near the top of the chain of command, making the final decision as to how to react to the information. But there are (or were) positions that involved working “under cover” and very exposed to danger or in uniform and very close to danger. That is the kind of stress that needs to be controlled. If a person has to pull his stress card because a drill sergeant yells at him/her, that person has to be kept away from stressful positions that could endanger him/herself or others depending on him/her.

    Comment by jack widmaier — July 12, 2019 @ 8:46 am

  2392. Attention Everyone:

    Craig Sprout, website administrator, recently upgraded the Parkway Restop Website. Currently, based on my experience, you may still be able to get on this site for viewing but you cannot post anything. In order to be able to post, you must enter the website address as follows: https://www.parkwayrestop.com/archives/63

    Thank you

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 27, 2019 @ 5:02 pm

  2393. Test

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 27, 2019 @ 5:04 pm

  2394. There has to be a better way!

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — July 28, 2019 @ 12:19 am

  2395. Just checking

    Comment by manny adler — July 28, 2019 @ 7:19 am

  2396. seems the same as always.

    Comment by manny adler — July 28, 2019 @ 7:20 am

  2397. Ed, Manny, and Bill L..

    I agree. It seems that we are back as usual.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 29, 2019 @ 4:46 pm

  2398. Glad to see the site back & available. I had not been able to open it – thought it was gone!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — August 10, 2019 @ 5:14 pm

  2399. What happened to everybody? Have we run out of stories? Those were important times of our lives. Let tell some more than 50 year old experiences that had meaning back then and shaped for us today in how we we see the world. I do not want this website to die off,,,,,

    Comment by daryl Petrarca — August 16, 2019 @ 11:40 pm

  2400. Daryl et al,

    Speaking of 50 years ago, I plan to see if I can insert a story about Fort Holabird in the 8/29th edition of the Dundalk Eagle by contacting them next week. It will be their 50 year anniversary edition. In the past, I have had them publish an article entitled, “Fort Holabird Veteran Remembers Time at Old Army Post” in the 1/05/2017 edition and also a letter to the editor captioned, “A Dundalk History Lesson”, on February 21, 2019. The latter was in response to a request from the editor to submit ideas as to why natives love Dundalk. Of course, my posting what have been more aptly named “Why I love Fort Holabird.” I will let you know if I am successful.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 17, 2019 @ 1:11 pm

  2401. Daryl, Phil et.al.:

    Still here kind of. This is our version of a reunion isn’t it? Many outfits have these but we really were outliers in many ways (by the nature of our clearances and assignments) so this is why this site seems to serve this need (thanks Jim). Wouldn’t it be nice if we could meet in person? Baltimore? Unfortunately this would be a long trip for many of us but probably worth it. Kind of an “honor flight” of the earth- bound “Birders” we would even have our own local tour guide (poor Phil). Do they still have the VFW hall?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 18, 2019 @ 5:57 am

  2402. Manny, Daryl, et al,

    I am afraid the VFW post on Pine Ave, just behind the eastern end of the fort is long gone. Dwindling membership and insolvency finished it. The alternative is VVA post 451, the former officers’ club, on Beckley Street., is the best alternative. They have a large hall that could accommodate 100 people. Our problem, the way I see it is twofold. First, we are spread out all of the U.S and beyond and second too many of us are non-ambulatory. I have been trying to call for a getogether for years but it is just not practical. The only solution that I have been able to come up with is to meet with some vets individually or in very small groups. I am still open to that option.

    Phil O.
    Holabird Tour Guide

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 18, 2019 @ 8:42 am

  2403. Every time I visit this site I feel like it is a reunion with my old buddies!

    Comment by bill leach — August 19, 2019 @ 9:48 pm

  2404. Just wanted to let everyone know that the National Counter Intelligence Corps Association is having a convention in Chattanooga, TN on October 3-6, 2019. I am a life member but haven’t been to any of the conventions. My wife and I were considering going but we have too many things going on this year. From the articles in the newsletters, it seems like the attendance is less each year. We are all getting up there. Fifty years ago I was in Vietnam with the 5th SF group in S2 Collection. I missed Woodstock (couldn’t care less) but had a front row seat for the Green Beret murder incident.
    Also, I believe I mentioned that some of the local Associations have a luncheon once in a while. Its hard to get a majority to agree on a date as to Dr. appointments etc. This is the next best thing to getting together at this stage of our lives.
    The NCIAC a very informative newsletter if you are a member. Highly suggest becoming a member. Another way to keep the dialogue going.
    Jim Wiles

    Comment by Jim Wiles — August 23, 2019 @ 11:29 am

  2405. Jim(2404),
    What was the “Green Beret murder incident”? I suffer from terminal historical curiosity.
    Thanks,
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 29, 2019 @ 5:09 am

  2406. Fellow MI Vets:

    As promised, I managed to have the Dundalk Eagle print my article about Fort Holabird in its 50 year anniversary edition under the heading of “Community Reflections from Eagle Readers.”

    The following is the content of that article:

    It is hard to imagine that a U.S. Army post of 3000 soldiers and 2000 civilians, which was located just south and west of Holabird and Dundalk Avenues has been gone for almost 50 years. It was founded in 1917 and named after Quartermaster General Samuel Beckley Holabird. During World War I and II, it served as a staging area for troops and military equipment being sent overseas to support the allied cause in Europe and in the Pacific Theatre. More recently, the facility was home to the U.S. Army Intelligence Center until it closed in 1973. Since then the locale was redeveloped into two distinct areas: Holabird Business Park and Cimaglia Park at Fort Holabird.

    As far back as 1965, the Army made the determination that the Post’s training capacity was strained to the limit, due to the fact that a double shift of classes of special agents and others had to be maintained in order to meet the needs of the U.S. Army in the Vietnam War. Additional reasons for its closure included that there was not enough open airspace for the movement of personnel and equipment and that the Army wanted an uncluttered electromagnetic spectrum which the post simply couldn’t provide. Consequently, it was relocated to Fort Huachuca, Arizona.

    At present, all that remains is: The Officers’ Open Mess on Beckley Street, now occupied by the Vietnam Veterans of America, Post 451, the Portside Apartments on Dundalk Avenue which once contained housing for officers and enlisted personnel, three jeep test tracks on what the locals call “Tank Hill” which sit dormant and are located in a small area of trees next to the baseball fields in Cimaglia Park, and there are 2 houses on Detroit Avenue which were former officers’ quarters which now serve as private residences. Some of the former street layout is also intact to include: Portal, Tributary, Beckley, and Van Deman Streets.

    Finally, there is very little that remains of a once thriving Army post that was located just west of Dundalk Avenue, only 50 years ago.

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 29, 2019 @ 8:39 pm

  2407. Greetings!

    What occurred on 9/02/1971 at Fort Holabird?

    Who among you can answer this question correctly without researching it on the Internet?

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 2, 2019 @ 7:53 am

  2408. Phil,

    I’m not 100% sure, but I remember that was the year the Bird closed or the last class graduated? Not sure about the exact date though.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — September 2, 2019 @ 8:23 am

  2409. Would also like to thank you Phil for keeping this site alive. It’s hard to believe our beloved Ft. Holabird has been closed, in effect, for almost 50 years now. In my humble opinion, this site, your input and the few other Holabird brethren are what keeps the memories alive. Thanks to you all.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — September 2, 2019 @ 8:28 am

  2410. Gary,

    You are correct! Your second thought about the last agent class graduating is spot on. Seventeen years after the Army Intelligence School began on 9/01/1954, it graduated its final class at Holabird. Few people also know that Intelligence personnel were trained in a less structured setting at the Fort beginning in 1945, just after the end of WWII.

    Thank you,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 2, 2019 @ 9:18 am

  2411. Phil, thanks for the updates! Glad the site is still limping along as we all get older. 50 years….!! Has anyone on this website served in the Continental Intelligence Command (CONTIC) at Fort Bragg in the late 1960s?? I haven’t heard from anyone from that time.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — September 5, 2019 @ 1:45 pm

  2412. Daryl, Gary, Manny, Jim W., et al,

    Thanks for your recent contributions to this site. If you don’t have anything original to offer about Fort Holabird or M.I., please piggyback on each others’ postings. This keeps the site going.

    Ref. 2404 – Jim W.,

    Thanks for your recent posting. I just obtained my lifetime membership to the VVA for a one time fee of $50.00. I never served in Vietnam but was eligible because of my service during the Vietnam War Era, 1961 – 1975. I received the following: lifetime certificate, lapel pin, laminated membership card, quarterly publication (the VVA Veteran), and discounts with various companies offering military and veterans merchandise/collectibles. The organization also offers the following services: claims assistance, financial assistance through USAA, and support of legislative action on behalf of veterans.

    The VVA was founded in 1978 as a national non-profit corporation. It is committed to serving the needs of all veterans. It has organizing councils in 43 states including 525 local chapters and over 75,000 individual members. Some chapters also offer admittance to their own meeting halls and lounges/restaurants for members (mine, Post 451, is in the former Fort Holabird Officers Open Mess).

    If interested, check it out on VVA.org

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 6, 2019 @ 9:48 am

  2413. My original “original” offering on Ft. Holabird is a bit long-winded, but here goes:
    I was born in the March AFB (California) hospital when my father, a career AF NCO was SM of the 22nd Bomb Wing. I was raised as an AF brat, so knew very little about the Army and it’s posts/forts.

    In the summer of 1968, I entered the Army and during basic training at
    Ft. Ord (A-5-1), I took a German language test, which got me the MOS 96C2L29.
    I asked at the Orderly room what that meant, and no one knew. My Drill Instructor speculated it was a cook!

    Uoon graduating from Basic, I flew immediately to Friendship Airport in Baltimore. Upon arrival, I asked a taxi driver if he knew a place called Ft. Holabird, as I had never heard of it. He said “sure, jump in”.

    As we approached the main gate, I saw the arch with the words……
    United States Army Intelligence School. I was immediately upset, thinking that the Army thought I was so dumb, I needed some “intelligence”

    That was my very first impression of our beloved “Bird”

    Comment by Gary Miller — September 15, 2019 @ 6:39 am

  2414. Gary,

    Army logic. I was bi-lingual growing up in refugee German speaking home. The Army never asked me so I ended up wasting the tax paying citizens by sending others to Army language School. Who knows?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 16, 2019 @ 5:05 am

  2415. Gary and Manny,

    My US Army Recruiting Station was in a minority neighborhood. I wasn’t doing well in college so I decided to drop out and enlist not knowing what MOS to choose. The recruiter told me that they were having a big “push” for MI types and he talked me into it. It was certainly my lucky day with 2 programs at the “Bird” and almost a year in the ROK. Additionally, I got a three month “Early Out” to go back to school and finish my undergraduate degree, all on the G.I. Bill.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 16, 2019 @ 9:59 am

  2416. After enlisting I shared a two person sleeper compartment on a train to Basic Training at Fort Bragg in 1967. The person I shared the compartment with said that all Basic Trainees usually went to the same MOS training and he was going for “Mortuary” school. I was a bit shocked thinking I was going into MI not Mortuary so somehow the Army messed up on what training I was getting since they both started with the letter M and I was uncertain until the events I posted in Post 848 (above). Not sure I could have handled Mortuary training….

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — September 16, 2019 @ 3:22 pm

  2417. Daryl, one of the men in my class at Holabird in 1965, was dropped from the class because he was failing it miserably. Poor guy was really shocked when he got reassigned to attend a Mortuary Assistant course. I will never forget the look on his face! I would have gone AWOL if that had happened to me.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — September 16, 2019 @ 9:26 pm

  2418. Tony, Too bad about your classmate. What is really sad is how busy the mortuary folks were during the Vietnam War. Over 58,000 military personnel made the ultimate sacrifice…. Many of us are so lucky to be able to just set back and remember our lives.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — September 17, 2019 @ 3:09 pm

  2419. Just to keep this site moving and breathing.
    I was thinking this morning of the time I spent at Fort Holabird. It was a very important time of my life. I was becoming a man and had a good chance of going off to war in a strange (to me) place. I had never been this far from Boston before. Summer vacations on my uncles farm were the most time and distance away from home and that was only to western Massachusetts. My Boston accent made for a few good laughs. Most of the people I met on Fort Holabird were great. Reading most of the posts at this Parkway site, it seems most of you agree.
    As luck would have it, I got to stay at the Fort for the next three years working at S2/3 Troop Command. It was a great job and because it had to do with getting students cleared for class, I was “frozen/Code 9”. The army didn’t want to slow down the flow of student and it was easier to keep me in my job than train a replacement.
    Soon after getting my assignment, the “Big Blackout of the Northeast” happened. It was November 1965 and we were watching Walter Cronkite when the lights flickered but didn’t go out. Maryland was spared.
    There were a lot of demonstrations against the war in the next 2 years around the post and I was assigned to “riot control”. We practiced ??? on Saturday mornings. Some of us in fatigues and some of us in a mixture of fatigues and civilian clothes. They threw some sort of tear gas at us as we marched and stomped our feet. Luckily, they never needed us for real!
    Then in April 1968, MLK was assassinated.
    The night before I was to leave the army for good, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated.
    The next day, me and my buddy Rick flew through the clearing of post process as fast as we could. Nobody knew who was behind the RFK assassination yet and we didn’t want to take a chance that they would cancel our orders.
    We made it to the airport and that was my last day at one of the best times of my life.
    That’s why I love this site and hope it keeps going.

    Comment by bill leach — September 19, 2019 @ 1:59 pm

  2420. Bill,

    I hope more people respond to this latest theme on the Parkway Restop website. If not, we will probably move on to another topic. Either way, thank you for helping to keep this site going.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 19, 2019 @ 3:16 pm

  2421. During my tour in Korea I was friendly with Dan Whiteford. Maybe five years after we were discharged, he sent me an application for NCICA. He was president since he hosted the convention in the Baltimore area [early 1960s]. I didn’t attend, but with the Golden Sphinx [NCICA news magazine] I became interested in MI. I have attended maybe eight conventions. Although I’m also a member of ACICV, I haven’t attended any of their reunions.

    For a number of years I was a member of the US Army MI Museum, Fort Huachuca. I visited sometime in the early 1990s. Fort Huachuca had two other interesting museums – Southwestern Museum and Buffalo Soldiers. In the mid-1990s when my son and I attended a lunch at Fort Meyer prior to a ceremony in Arlington National Cemetery honoring CICers killed in the line of duty, the Buffalo Soldiers were holding a reunion in the next conference room. They invited me to tour their exhibits.

    My interest in MI is also maintained because Stan Solin hosts a SoCal CIC lunch every two months. Twenty years ago we had 20+ attendees counting spouses. Now we are lucky to get 6-8 attendees and not everyone was a former CICer or their spouse. Prior to that we went to Camp Pendleton where an informal CIC organization held lunches on base [NCO Club]. The passing of the San Diego promoters ended the meetings.

    This blog thread has maintained my interest. I have read every entry since discovering this thread three months after the first entry.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — September 19, 2019 @ 7:08 pm

  2422. Bernie,

    Thanks for your continual interest in the MI field through your participation in various organizations and their activities. With your help and that of all of the others who posted entries recently we will continue to keep the Parkway Restop website fresh and informative about this significant experience in our past that binds us all together.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 19, 2019 @ 10:06 pm

  2423. Fellow “Posters”,

    A thought. Could perhaps we could reach out to
    post-Holabird MI folks at Huachuca or wherever to let them know this site exists and to keep it going and current (the two “HH’s site?).

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 20, 2019 @ 4:58 am

  2424. Good Idea!

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — September 20, 2019 @ 3:41 pm

  2425. Wow ! My classmate, Dave Shiplett, put me on to this site. He and I were in 974 (Coordinator) in the Summer of 92. What a great summer in scenic Dundalk under the smoke stacks of Bethlehem Steel. I remember Bud Palermo’s on Lombard Street where we could sit on the patio at old fashioned wooden picnic tables, covered in newspaper with a fresh hot basket of crabs dumped in front of us. It was paired with a pitcher of Black Label beer and a wooden mallet.
    I grew up in Gettysburg so going home for the weekend was easy – only 52 miles away.
    I remember Glen Lanning from Ohio – we all went to USAEUR Hqs in September on a troop ship. Also Pat ??. We all were enlistees – Pat stayed in Army after our enlistments were done – his dad was career NCO and Pat chieved WO 4(I think).
    We had a typing instructor who was the best looking of all our teachers. Anyone remember her?
    We arrived in Heidelberg after train ride from Bremerhaven via Camp King in Oberursel (sp) and the draftees at HQ who had been extended because of Berlin Wall celebrated and couldn’t wait to have one final bier at Zum Seppl and then home.

    Comment by Frank Skidmore — September 21, 2019 @ 11:14 am

  2426. Phil, Manny, Bernie, et al-
    As mentioned many moons ago, I got drafted in the Berlin Crisis build-up. The Army, in its infinite wisdom (?) didn’t know whatinell to do with an industrial designer but since I’d been high scorer on the IQ portion of draft-in testing, I was sent out to Jackson’s puckerbrush wherein resided men- IN CIVIES! Looked good to me.
    Arrived The ‘Bird 12/61. Basic Agent, DASE. Then “shuffle off to Buffalo.” Busted a Nike site, offered O-2, refused same (damn fool!). Then, “Where the Hell’s Turkey, Sir?” (to Region CDR)
    Spent rest of time living on economy in Ankara, commuting by contract M-B bus 40 clicks out to TUSLOG Site 23 just outside the lovely (?) village of Cerkeshuyuk. Euro separation to Frankfurt for job in design department at Opel AG. Germany in winter is miserably cold and gray, my pop had died several months before, and, frankly, I was a little homesick for the good ol’ US of A so came home to start my second life as a design consultant, Maureen and I ensconced on a sylvan hilltop in NW CT.
    My funniest (now!) episodes had to do with my GI black 4-door Chevy 150 with “U.S.ARMY 1F3704” on the underside of the hood. Caused many a pump jockey to do a second take at the driver. Fortunately, although I was about 60 miles out, it was snowing. And it was late afternoon. I say fortunately because after a couple of instances of it quitting on my, I realized that once the engine cooled, it would restart… until it got hot again. That being the case, I figured that if I could keep the engine cool, maybe I could make it back to Buffalo. So I drove as fast as I could with the snow and all, in second gear! With one set of tracks on the Thruway, 50 MPH in second gear is a thrill, let me tell you. Made it back to the shop by 8 PM.
    The other time the clutch mechanism crapped out just after I’d left the office…in downtown Buffalo! Long story short, I had to drive 35 miles to the Army repair facility at Fort Niagara up on Lake Ontario. According to Region, I couldn’t have the repair done at the Chevy dealer a mile away. Ever try driving through traffic with a Stovebolt Six bolted to a 3-speed? Not fun, but you do get good at “feather-footing” shifts… well, ‘cept for the “crank ‘er up in gear” bit.
    Best to you all, old friends I’ve never met,
    Bill

    Comment by Bill Schulz — September 21, 2019 @ 11:14 am

  2427. Patrick (WO4) son of career NCO was Pat Judd from WVA.
    One notable ‘Bird graduate was Edward S (Ned) Walker, Jr. who enlisted in June of ’62 and then on to the ‘Bird after basic.
    Ned went on to the State Department worked USAID in SE Asia and then became Ambassador to Egypt and Israel also was second to Madeline Albright at the UN. He served with the 513th at USAREUR Hqs “upstairs”. He also was in my wedding party 52 years ago. His bud while at Holabird was Chad Howgate.

    Comment by Frank Skidmore — September 21, 2019 @ 12:09 pm

  2428. Bill,
    Memories. I worked in Wiesbaden and Idar-Oberstein, Germany in 1962-3. The roads could be very slick in the winter time since there were no snow plows in these areas. It was always fun driving to the top of Mount Erbeskopt with slick roads, especially with rear-wheel drive cars.

    One of our guys was hit on slick roads by a German Army truck with fahrschule [student driver] designation. Remember those German Army trucks with big single rear-wheels/tires rather than dual wheels. Although the soldier driver admitted it was his fault he just laughed when our guy asked about collecting for damages. The driver replied our guy could sue the German Army and even the German Government, but laughed at any chance of success.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — September 21, 2019 @ 2:02 pm

  2429. What’s in a name?

    In an earlier post I related that I had never heard of Col. Bernard Thielen who delivered the Japanese surrender papers to President Truman. It seemed reasonable for a CIC sarge to tell me that the served under my father since I’m Bernard Thielen, Jr.

    At one of the NCICA conventions, several guys asked if I was related to Ray Thielen. I said that I had an Uncle Ray Thielen, but he was never in the Army. These old Army duffers that hadn’t met Ray had heard of him. Their Ray was career Army and a real go-getter. One of their stories – CID radioed Ray, who was captaining a CIC boat in the Strait of Formosa at the time, asking him for help in detaining smugglers. They said that Ray chased the smugglers with guns blazing. Years later I met their Ray at the San Diego NCICA convention. After retiring from the Army, he went to law school and was an Assistant District Attorney [ADA] in the San Francisco Bay area. He sneaked his son into the convention who was an ADA in the San Diego area.

    At that same reunion, a former CICer and his wife seemed interested in talking to me. They were living in Hawaii and quite interesting so I enjoyed the discussion. Finally he asked me if I was related to Cynthia Thielen. I said a Cynthia Thielen was a first cousin, but undoubtedly not the one they were referencing. He informed me that his Cynthia was a state representative in Hawaii. Again, I was part of the wrong lineage.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — September 21, 2019 @ 2:18 pm

  2430. Bernie and Bill,

    Thank you for answering the call for MI connections, and exploits, etc.

    While in the ROK, I was assigned to the Taejon Field Office at Stonestown Compound. It wasn’t long before we heard about a small village outside of a special ammunition supply base called Camp Ames not far from Taejon. The village grew up supporting the military base with tailor-made suits, night life, and other amenities. With others, I began frequenting the ville on the weekends and sometimes during the work week. Some of the G.I.s stationed there resented MI types participating in the locals’ activities. I remember on several occasions being taunted with a chorus of them repeating over and over again, “CIC, CIC.”

    One night when I was there alone visiting one of my favorite haunts, the 77 Club, I ran into several MPs in civvies and thought I was going to get “lit up.” Fortunately for me, before I got into trouble, the MP commanding officer, a CPT, who I knew, arrived to save my bacon.

    Always out front,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 21, 2019 @ 5:35 pm

  2431. Hey, Bernie, that sounds like a made up story! I’ve got a name as common as water in German (it means “mayor” from back in the Middle Ages where everyone got suckered into being village mayor somewhere and once “Herr Schulz was applied, it stuck like glue!) and I never run into anything like your yarn!
    Just Joking, guy. I just feel sorta left out… can’t even run down any of the guys I worked with… guess they’ve all passed on.
    MY TURN!
    I do hope everyone realizes that I’m just in a silly sort of mood… helped in no part by a week’s unrelenting pain from trying a back flip with a full twist off the third step of the pull-down steps in the garage. Nothing broken but I did shred a bunch of lower back muscles.
    Yean, I know, I sound like a vet checking out the new puppies, lifting their tail one by one, “bitch, bitch, bitch.”
    Bill “Mayor”

    Comment by Bill Schulz — September 21, 2019 @ 7:42 pm

  2432. Bill,

    In 1972, German Fritz Thielen co-founded the Neo-Nazi party in Bavaria. Again, no lineage to me, fortunately.

    In the Early Modern Period, the Germans wanted to be uppity. The Greeks were the admired civilization. Most Greek surnames beginning with the letter T were followed with the letter h, so the Germans added the letter h to Tielen, but didn’t change the pronunciation – silent h.

    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — September 22, 2019 @ 10:49 am

  2433. Guys,

    Today, the following text was emailed to me from Ben Burt about how he got into MI:

    IN OCT’62 I RECEIVED NOTIFICATION TO MOTOR OVER ASAP THE ARMY INDUCTION CENTER IN THAT BIG SUN BLOCKER TO THE EAST OF WHERE I LIVE IN FORT WORTH. I WAS TWENTY-TWO AT THE TIME. I TOOK A PHYSICAL AND WAS SENT HOME AND TOLD”WE’LL CALL YOU.” A FEW MONTHS WENT BY,AND I DIDNT HEAR FROM THE ”ARMY”. I WAS WORKING IN A GOOD LOW [PAYING JOB FILLING SHOE AND BOOT ORDERS ON ROLLERSKATES. ONE FRINGE BENEFIT WAS THERE WERE many SINGLE,DIVORCED, ESTRANGED, YOUNG LADIES WORKING THERE ALSO. BACK TO THE DRAFT. IN APRIL 1963 I HAD YET TO HEAR FROM ”THE ARMY”. SO I CALLEDTTHEM”! WAS TOLD I WAS PENCILED IN FOR JULY 63. I ASKED IF POSSIBLY I COULD BE MOVED UP; I HAD TURNED 23,STILL SINGLE,FAIRLY HEALTHY AND BORED TO TEARS. WAS TOLD ”HOW ABOUT APRIL 25TH? I ANSWERED ”GREAT!!””. WENT TO FORT POLK LOUISIANA FOR GRUNT Training. AFTER ABOUT FIVE WEEKS I WAS TOLD TO REPORT TO DAY-ROOM;M A MAN WANTED TO TALK TO ME. HE WAS IN CIVVIES, SLASHED SOME-SORT OF CREDENTIALS, SAID I ”QUALIFIED” FOR ARMY INTELLIGENCE AGENT TRAINING PENDING A THOROUGH B.I. WOULD I BE INTERESTED? ONLY HITCH WAS BEING A DRAFTEE AND ONLY TO SERVE TWO YEARS ACITVE DUTY; THAT I WOULD BE REQUIRED TO SERVE AN ADDITIONAL ELEVEN MONTHS OF ACTIVE RESERVE DUTY DUE TO THE LENGTH OF THE INTEL. SCHOOL WHICH BY THE WAY WAS AT FORT HOLABIRD,MARYLAND, JUST OUTSIDE OF BALTIMORE. HE SAID FOR ME TO THINK ABOUT IT;HE’D BE BACK IN A FEW DAYS FOR MY ANSWER; WELL, I KNEW THAT BEING A DRAFTEE THE ARMY COULD PUT ME ANYWHERE IT SO DESIRED. I HAD HAD THREE YEARS OF ROTC IN HIGHH SCHOOL, I KNEW A M1 GARAND TOP TO ,BOTTOM,INSIDE AND OUT. WE DIDNT FIRE THEM;USED .22’S ON FIRING RANGE ON FIFTH FLOOR OF SCHOOL; PLUS ONE YEAR ROTC IN COLLEGE. FOUND OUT MUCH LATER THAT IF I HAD NOT TAKEN THE SPEC.AGENT TRAINING AT THE ”BIRD” I WAS TO GO TO FORT RUCKER ALABAMA FOR HELICOPTER MECHANIC AND MAINTENANCE TRAINING. WOULDNT HAVE BEEN A BAD DEAL; GUESS BECAUSE SOMEWHERE ON PAPER WORK I INDICATED THAT I HAD HAD MOTORCYCLES, O’HAULED ENGINES, MODIFIED BIKES FOR OFF-ROAD USAGE{COW-TAILING ETC); REMEMBER THIS WAS BEFORE FACTORY READY-MADE DIRT BIKES WERE AVAILABLE. ANYWAY, I TOOK THE INTEL.AGT SCHOOL, OFFER. AND HERE I AM. NO REGRETS; MET MANY INTERESTING FOLKS THAT SUCH PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED O/W .

    EX-SPEC.AGENT BEN BURT

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 29, 2019 @ 2:35 pm

  2434. I asked former S/A Dave Mitchell for his thoughts on entering MI service and he sent me this poem by a well known Texan instead:

    STACKING

    Memories are stacked
    like boxes.
    The further back these memories
    go, the more boxes of time.
    Even tho’ they are stacked with care
    some fall by the wayside,
    blank as an empty page.
    Until all memories,
    no matter their length,
    can’t be stacked at all.

    Jeanie Sanders, Lytle, Texas

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 1, 2019 @ 12:58 pm

  2435. Hi,

    I turned seventy on October 1st and one of my “I remember when…” thoughts was of my time in MI. I was only a kid (I had just turned 18) and because of Pueblo and Tet in early 1968 I was jumped out of the school line and sent directly to the 108th headquarter as permanent staff. Some close contact OJI with really extraordinary people led to three quick promotions (12 months active and E-5). Over the next thirty months I learned every important life skill I would ever need for the rest of my career. Been retired twice, but now working as a state safety inspector in the high schools. (I find it hard to not be doing something.) When I see the kids, I think back to what I was doing when I was their age. A different time…but the kids are just wonderous.

    Comment by Dave Edmonds — October 11, 2019 @ 11:39 am

  2436. Dave (2433),

    Where was the 108th and what “school line” where you in. Kids don’t change, only the times do. Happy 70th.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 12, 2019 @ 4:35 am

  2437. Dave (2434),

    108th was NY, NJ and all of New England.
    After the bird I went to 112th HQ. (Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas). Spent approx 1 year there and finished my last 18 months at the NYC field office, region 1, 108th MI group. We were at the old federal building at 111 E 16th Street and then moved to the new federal building at Foley Square. I lived in NJ and commuted to NYC every day by bus in civilian clothes.

    Comment by Alan Green — October 12, 2019 @ 8:56 pm

  2438. The 108th was in the northeast. it included all of New England, NY & NJ. Headquarters was at Ft Devens, MA.

    After the bird I was at HQ 112th MI Group, Ft Sam Houston, TX. for a little over a year. Spent my last 18 months at Region 1, New York City, 108th MI Group.

    Term of enlistment 7 dec 1965 – 6 dec 1968.

    Comment by Alan Green — October 14, 2019 @ 2:14 pm

  2439. Montagnards (referred to as “The Yards” by some American G.I.s) have had some of their people resettle in the U.S. from Vietnam since that War ended. Most have relocated to North Carolina, especially, Raleigh, Charlotte, Greensboro and New Bern. NC has the distinction of having the largest Montagnard population (3000) outside of Cambodia. America has shown a spirit of generosity to its former allies. U.S. volunteers have offered their time and money to assist in their resettlement. They had been living in refugee camps in Cambodia after fleeing from Vietnam, some as late as 2018. Montagnards are tribal people, culturally different from the Vietnamese, who speak a variety of dialects. They are mostly Christian and are strong opponents of communism. During the War, they fought alongside the U.S. forces, especially the Green Berets, against the NVA and the VC. Those who did not flee Vietnam after the War ended in 1975, suffered persecution and discrimination. The Vietnamese government took their ancestral lands to build coffee and rubber plantations and used Vietnamese from other provinces to be settled on their lands in the highlands. In February 2001, some held a peaceful demonstration calling for religious freedom and protesting Vietnamese encroachment on their lands. The numerically superior Vietnamese used force to end the protest. Consequently, many of them fled to Cambodia. After pressure from human rights groups. Cambodia then allowed them to emigrate to the U.S. Church groups, like Lutheran Social Services, have helped these mostly former farmers to get apartments and jobs to minimize their dependency on our government and to help in the assimilation process. Most have taken laborer jobs in retail, furniture making, and textile companies. (Taken from News@army.togetherweserved.com, October 2019 edition)

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 14, 2019 @ 9:45 pm

  2440. The 108th MI Group had their headquarters at Fort Devins MA. I do believe it consisted of New England, NY and NJ. I was stationed at the Fort Dix Field Office and then the Trenton Field Office. The Regional Office was in Newark NJ. It’s no longer there as I go through Devins MA on my way to visit my son in Maine. Another Army Fort gone like Fort Holibird, just a memory now.

    I received word that there will me a luncheon of the NYNCICA on November 7th at the Tick Tock Dinner located on the corner of3 4th and Eight streets in NYC. If you are interested contact Michael Schlenoff at mrschlenoff@hotmail.com

    Comment by Jim Wiles — October 18, 2019 @ 3:14 pm

  2441. Jim,

    Thanks for the information about the 108th and the NYNCICA Luncheon.

    This week, I took delivery of a tee shirt with the inscription on the front that read, “Fort Holabird Gone But Not Forgotten.” A company called Wandering I Store sells them for about $20.00 if you take advantage of the discount that might still be available. They are offered in about 1/2 a dozen different colors and mine is in OD. I ordered it online and it took about a week to have it delivered to my home address. Once ordered, they will send you an email confirmation. So far, one other Holabird grad that I know has also ordered one. The website address is: store@wanderingisite.com

    I have no business relationship with this store but I thought I would list their contact information for the good of our postees.

    Phil O.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 19, 2019 @ 5:05 pm

  2442. Thanks for sharing Phil. I wonder if they deliver to Germany?

    Best,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — October 20, 2019 @ 12:43 pm

  2443. Gary,

    Thanks to Bill Leach we now know that one can order from the Wondering I Store worldwide. I like my shirt and soon Bill and Gary will be enjoying theirs.

    Another interesting site for MI memorabilia is the MICA Store although I haven’t purchased anything from them yet. They offer a nice variety of
    Items including: a 9 inch tall spook statue made from resin and shaped by a 3D carving as well as MI crest, CI badge, and regimental crest lapel pins at reasonable prices. Their web site address is as follows: mica-national.org

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 21, 2019 @ 8:25 am

  2444. Re:2439

    Page down to the MICA Gift Store on the web site page. And remember Caveat Emptor.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 21, 2019 @ 10:04 am

  2445. Re:2411 Daryl Petrarca, Yes I was drafted Feb.1966,took basic training at Ft. Benning,Ga..Was then sent to Ft.Holabird trained as a 96B m.o.s..Afterwards stationed at Ft.Bragg,N.C.for the balance of my 2yrs.At Bragg I was attached to Hq.Co.USCONTIC where I worked at the co.hqs.message center and as the Bird Col.driver.Would like to hear from you or anyone else that might have been there.Email=tedreed@bellsouth.net tel.#772-559-2482.

    Comment by Ted M. Reed — October 25, 2019 @ 11:16 am

  2446. Sorry to admit that I haven’t been on the blog for about six months until today. Re Post 2405 (29 Aug), Manny Adler asked Jim Wiles (2403), about the Green Beret Murder Case, so-called. Perhaps the most balanced treatmenht of the matter can be found in Jeff Stein’s “Murder in Wartime” (NY, NY, St Martin’s Press, 1992). I can certtainly attest to much of what’s represented as true in the book, despite thje more inflammatory materials in the press of those days. After the ‘Bird and a year in Vietnamese Language school, assignments with the Phoenix Program and 1st Infantry Division, I was also assigned to 5th SF Group (in the Delta rather than SFOB where it appears Jim Wiles was stationed at the time). Interestingly enough in our small MI world, by 1982 just back from Germany as a Case Officer and assigned to the USAOG at Meade, several of the men described in the book were also there, e.g., Tom Middleton, Dave Crew which made for intersting after-work conversations.

    Comment by John Nolan — October 25, 2019 @ 6:08 pm

  2447. Folks,

    We were not able to get on this site on the weekend just past. Yesterday, I contacted Craig Sprout and we are now “back in business.”

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 28, 2019 @ 2:30 pm

  2448. Jim, john and Phil and of course craig:

    Thanks for getting us back on-line so we can quit “jonesing” and the information on Green Beret Murder Case.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 28, 2019 @ 4:58 pm

  2449. I went through basic at FT Leonard Wood, MO April-June 1966. Orders for FT Holibird came at end of basic. No one at FT Leonard Wood knew anything about FT Holibird or even where it was located. After some research on my own Baltimore, MD at the corner of Holibird AVE and Dundalk AVE. Went by bus from Ohio to Baltimore then city bus to front gate. Reported in and started the 96B20 course. After completion the entire 96B20 class began the 96C20 course. I remember that a round trip bus ticket to DC was 94 cents. Many times after class several of us in the class would head to downtown Baltimore or DC. Just had to be back for morning formation and class. In October 1966 the complete class was put on a bus and went to FT Bragg, NC 14th MI near Spring Lake gate. December 1966 received orders for Vietnam 1st Air Cav Div Ankhe as an Interrogator. After a 30 day leave arrived in Country February 1967. Around April 1967 was transferred to American Div MID Interrogationn section Chu Lai. Came home just before TET 1968 started. Thanks for renewing all the FT Holibird memories. I was 20 years old at the time and am now 73 and the memories are still as fresh as when I was 20. Glad to have found this site.

    Comment by Roger Knight — November 1, 2019 @ 4:58 am

  2450. Bestowing warm hellos to my fellow veterans and Ft. Holabird alumnus.
    I thought that you might be interested in a post(736) I did in October 7, 2012 pertaining to the first woman assigned to counterintelligence corps special agent course at Ft. Holabird.
    Phil you might be especially curious since you’ve been contributing fascinating material concerning our Holabird history. This one is quite unique.
    The agent’s name is Ann McDonough and she is quite a read.
    Thanks,
    Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — November 9, 2019 @ 9:37 pm

  2451. Ed ,

    Thanks so much for your piece on Ann McDonough. Unfortunately, too few women have had the opportunities to work in the intelligence field during our history. According to information found on the internet, only 3 women have headed up national intelligence agencies at any one time in the 21st century, most notably, Gina Haspel, head of the CIA.

    Even in our military in general, women have been underrepresented until recent times. One all female unit, the WACS, was founded on 15 May 1942. After 36 years of service, it was finally disbanded in 1978 when all female units were integrated into male units. Fort Holabird had a WAC detachment of approximately 100 personnel. The WAC symbol was Pallas Athene, the goddess of warfare in Ancient Greek mythology. Women in the U.S. Military, were finally allowed in or near combat situations in 1994.

    Please remember to thank your fellow veterans for their service and sacrifice tomorrow on Veterans Day!

    Always out front,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 10, 2019 @ 8:57 am

  2452. Ref.2349 and 2440

    Yesterday, I took delivery of 2 lapel pins that I ordered from the MICA store. They are tiny, each measures less than 3/4 inches in diameter, just as described in the online catalogue. The total cost, including shipping, was $22.00. The 6″X9″ insulated package arrived in 5 days from Sierra Vista, AZ to Baltimore, MD.

    In order to find the two items mentioned above along with one other, you must move down on the catalogue site past the Charm – MI Crest until you reach the Lapel Pin. Next, click on the picture of that lapel pin and you will see 3 different lapel pins (I ordered the first two including the MI crest pin and the B’s & C’s pin. The third is the regimental crest pin.

    If interested in any of these three pins, just follow the instructions from that point on to place your order. I had no problems with the handling of my request, but remember, “let the buyer beware.” If you do encounter difficulties, their contact information is listed on the bottom of the website page.

    Toujours Avant,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 17, 2019 @ 1:40 pm

  2453. The National Museum United States Army is scheduled to open sometime in 2020.
    The exterior of the Museum is in the process of being covered with over one million pounds of stainless steel.
    The Museum’s infrastructure, roads, and utilities on the 84–acre site will include the widening of turn lanes and installation of traffic lights on Fairfax County Parkway, VA.
    For more information copy and paste the following into your search engine: National Museum of the US Army | Coming Soon to DC‎ Adwww.armyhistory.org/‎

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 1, 2019 @ 6:19 pm

  2454. Ref.2411 Daryl Petrarca,I was stationed at Ft.Bragg Hq.Co. C.O.N.T.I.C.from 1966-1968 after training at Holibird [MOS 96B20].Would like to hear from you or anyone else that was there at that time.Email=tedreed@bellsouth.net or tel.#772-559-2482.

    Comment by Ted M. Reed — December 7, 2019 @ 12:36 pm

  2455. Those of you that might have worked with or heard about Tony Blondell might enjoy reading this:

    Sometime back someone on this site or on one of the Facebook US Army sites, mentioned Anthony Blondell. I knew and worked with Tony Blondell during the last half of 1967 and early part of 1968, when we were both assigned to a covert MI Field Team tasked with intelligence collection in Germany.

    I recently learned that Tony had written several books after he retired from the Army. One of the books, “Plausible Denial”, is about his experiences during the time he was assigned to the same unit that I was.

    He talks about some of the operations that he conducted and some of the methods and tactics that were employed, and of course, the targets (East Germany & Soviet Russia).

    While reading the book, I kept saying to myself, “wow”, this is the work we did back then and found it incredible that it was in print but written as “fiction”. Apparently, because it is “fiction”, it does not divulge classified information and methods.

    When Tony Blondell came to our unit, we learned that he had quite a background. He was born in South Africa and had fought for the US Army in World War II; he fought in Korea; and had also been in Vietnam with a Special Forces Team just before joining our team. Tony was a Master Sgt E-8, and had a lot of combat experience, and was very resourceful and fearless.

    He laughed easily and had fun. He also loved women talking about sex. He was fun to be around but you did not want to be on the wrong side of him. Our 97Cs usually worked alone but Tony got assigned to assist another AH with two important operations. I remember driving him to the East German border and dropping him off. A few days later, I went back to that spot and picked him up. I didn’t ask him where he went or what happened. But I think his book explains that information. All I can say is “wow”.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — December 7, 2019 @ 5:39 pm

  2456. Ref: 2454
    Ted I came back from Korea and was assigned to CONTIC in about May 1969. Capt. Coffee was our section leader and Mr. Stuckey (civilian,retired military) gave me the “I” countries (Iran, Iraq, India, Israel, and for some reason Libya and Liberia because the Ls looked enough like Is guess) and said what’s going to happen there in the next five years ? I Remember looking at a lot of top secret “Life”, “Look”, and “Time” magazines for info. The other sources of information I can’t talk about. What were you up to?

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — December 9, 2019 @ 2:54 pm

  2457. #2456 Daryl, M r Stuckey was SGM Stuckey at the 502nd MI Batt., Seoul, Korea. I was there 9/65 to 4/67 and I believe he was there most of the time. A big guy a little grumpy at times but a good boss. He even hung around with us at the Hilltop club at Yongsan compound.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — December 13, 2019 @ 12:55 pm

  2458. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and a Happy, Healthy, and wealthy New Years to all who served and are still serving this wonderful country of ours.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — December 25, 2019 @ 12:00 pm

  2459. Charles et al,

    Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, and Happy New Year to all!

    Craig Sprout and Jim Flynn,

    Thank you for troubleshooting and hosting this website!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 25, 2019 @ 2:38 pm

  2460. Hey, just noticed something in the latest fallen soldier (T2T? WWP? I missed that part) TV solicitation, hosted by Mark Wahlberg. The that the fallen officer was one of us. He’s wearing the INTC insignia in the closeup of his service ribbons.
    Season’s best, all, and may God bless us all and the USA we proudly served.
    Bill

    Comment by Bill Schulz — December 28, 2019 @ 10:32 am

  2461. Just saw that piece again… It’s T2T, Tunnels To Towers. Oh, and that second sentence is a bummer… should read without the “The that.”
    Sorry, gang. Gettin’ old.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — December 30, 2019 @ 10:21 am

  2462. Bill Schulz,et.al.,
    I guess we are all at that point of mental
    SNAFU’s and FUBAR’S. Nevertheless happy new year and may we still be able to post well into 2020 and beyond.
    Manny

    Comment by manny Adler — January 1, 2020 @ 7:46 am

  2463. Read through some interesting posts about the 108th and the 902nd and recognized a few names from my time in MI in the late 60’s-early70s. Home for me was Port Washington NY / Long Island. About 5 friends of my friends were all in MI Branch, among them Frank Pavlack, a high school classmate, who worked out of the Hartford field office of the 108th. Elliott Oldak, who would later go on to Viet Nam language school and a post in country, and was eventually my best man at my wedding. After his service, he accepted a position as head of the sailing program at USNA. As for my experience, after Basic at Ft Dix, I took the Coordinator course at Ft Holabird. Arriving at the “Bird, in Jan ’66 I entered a different world; nothing like Basic. Assigned to casual company until my class started, I lucked out with an assignment to the school, working directly for COL Hastie who was Director of DNRI, together with very fetching and nice WAC Captain, writing and editing area studies for two weeks. On course completion in April 1966, , I was assigned to the 108th MI Group on East 16th Street in Manhattan. I can recall a few names while at the 108th, MSG Willis Baer, CPT George O Petty, a Berkley graduate, and Rick Shear. We also had two great ex NYC cops in our unit as civilian investigators, ex BOSSI and BCI detectives, who on a daily basis would encourage me to becoming a NYC cop after military service etc. I rented an apartment on 16th and 3rd with two other roomates. Nightlife as a single in NYC was awesome! We somehow got tied up with Delta stewardesses, who were regular ‘visitors” to the apartment. I was living the dream! Home and mom and dad were just 45 minutes away on the train. Doing background investigations was pretty much the daily routine at the 108th. The boredom would occasionally break with some more sensitive investigations, and surveillance missions. Unappreciative of just how good I had it, and not feeling really challenged I applied for Rotary Wing School at Ft Rucker, took the Navy Flight Physical, then the Army orientation flight from Floyd Bennett Field around Manhattan (tourists pay a lot for what was a free ride for me) and got accepted immediately. No surprise, I was already a fixed wing pilot. Papers arrived shortly at the 108th and the COL called me into his office, talked some sense into me, spouting the all too short longevity statistics of a WO1 in-country, and I agreed to change my orders, and it was back to Ft Holabird for the 97C40 -Area Intelligence course, agreeing to a 6 month extension on my enlistment. I remember typing class and Mrs Klecka, the safe and locks course, the exercises in downtown Baltimore, all to obvious to the locals, bypassing S&G locks etc, the Ft Howard phase (fun) , a trip to the Navy sub base by train from Baltimore and sailing out into Long Island Sound in a sub for some rubber boat exfil work, and another night exercise for infiltrating via Helio Courier STOL aircraft at night into an unlighted field marked by flashlights, and especially working until the wee hours on our OPS plans, basically the graduation exercise . I worked very hard perfecting mine; most of our class put a lot of effort into them. It was a matter of pride to do our best, as we knew that we’d have to be executing a plan written by a fellow classmate. I drew one for St Louis, a city I was totally unfamiliar with. Well, off to the races. Not able to shake my tail, but really pissing off the “opposition” I lead them on a way too long foot surveillance they’d long remember. They arrived at my hotel room late in evening, “tossed it” and unable to find that secreted information, I was manhandled into the trunk of a vehicle for a rough ride, for hours of hostile interrogation. They were still super pissed about the long walk and not finding the cached materials! Graduating in Sept 1967, the majority of my class went on to language school, or directly in-country. One was off to Germany, another off to Vicenza Italy, and I was fortunate to receive orders to the 902nd MI Group. Reporting in to the 902nd and SMAJ Orville Blue, the 902nd was in the midst of moving from the Tempo buildings to Baileys Crossroads. It seemed like within minutes of reporting, I was driving a semi full of files back to our new offices. I was assigned to Ops Branch 5, SOG. MAJ Bruce Phinney was our leader, a very capable and good natured USMA graduate. Ben Rosetto, recently retired LTC from Sharon PA and a GS employee was also in our unit, plus several very experienced CWO’s. Andy Smith (an E7 from El Paso, and a holder of a Silver Star from Korean War), was the “go-to” guy for getting anything that we needed. The extent of his contacts inside and outside the Army totally amazed me. He could get ANYTHING done. He was the “dog robbers” dog robber, and me, a SGT, and still eagerly learning the trade, we were the only enlisted in our unit. I couldn’t believe my good fortune; our unit, and the 902d was an experience I wont forget. We had a limitless tool box to draw from for any technical support, close inter-agency and branch relationships, plus a compliment of experienced and capable men that were all business. The missions were varied, and involved lots of travel, irregular hours, and challenging assignments, with some of the experiences comical and surreal. Ft Ord one day, Arlington Hall Station or WHCA the next, support for NSA, Camp David, surveillance the next. Every day was varied except for the ongoing missions. One Saturday I was told to report to the War Room at the Pentagon. That was my first experience briefing the ACSI , who was in his Bermuda shorts and most likely ready for a round of golf. Me, a lowly E6 briefing a General ? It could only happen in our Branch. My time at the 902d flew by. At 3 years to the day, I was promoted to SSG, and encouraged to reenlist by SGM Blue, with some enticing possibilities dangled in front of me. However, with a daughter just born and now 4 months old, it was time to think of our new family, and my own future as well, so I processed back to civilian life after an early out. It was time to complete college and finish that EE degree, but especially have great memories of my time with the 902nd.

    Comment by peter smith-johannsen — January 1, 2020 @ 6:10 pm

  2464. Peter,

    Welcome to the Parkway Restop website! I am hopeful that we will hear from some of the 97C40 contributors to this site.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 9, 2020 @ 3:19 pm

  2465. Phil, one reason we might not be hearing from 97Cs is because there were fewer of them than any of the other Intelligence MOSs. Also, the work they performed was covert and classified so they are probably still reluctant to talk about the operations in which they were involved.

    I was a 97D but I worked with 97Cs and 9668s while assigned to the three teams that I was assigned to Germany during the late 60s. Some of them had been initially trained as 97Bs and 9666s before going into Area Studies training and work.

    Tony Montemayor

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — January 10, 2020 @ 11:20 pm

  2466. Tony,

    I agree. Two of the “Charlies”” that we have heard from in the past year were Jim and Jack.. However, I feel that there is a lot we can talk about that is not covert or classified. Thanks for your comments.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 11, 2020 @ 9:55 am

  2467. Hello,
    I read through all these posts and I don’t think I came across any other people who attended the Image Interpreter or Aerial Surveillance Officer Course at Ft. Holabird. Are there any of you out there? I would love to hear from you.

    I left my complete bio in post #2087 on 1/30/18. To recap, I was at Ft Holabird for the Aerial Surveillance Officer Course 6/5/67-10/10/67. I was assigned to the 1st MI Battalion (Aerial Reconnaissance Support), a unit of the 525 MI Group, in Da Nang and Can Tho Vietnam.

    Comment by George Zervos — January 11, 2020 @ 12:48 pm

  2468. George, Peter, et al,

    I have found that a better way to get people to contact you is for you to list your email address on this website. Reason being is that I have spoken with some individuals who are avid readers of this site but have never posted anything. I have posted my email address several times over the years and it has greatly increased the number of people who respond back to me. Try it.

    Good luck!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 13, 2020 @ 9:23 am

  2469. Phil,

    I have tried in the past to comment on the lighter side of my 97C40 Army time, but I guess I am too long winded. The posts never get posted. Have tried twice in the last day to no avail. Not sure if both posts (don’t need both) will eventually show up or even if this will show up. Im wondering if others want to post, but are unable to and stop trying.

    Comment by jack widmaier — January 14, 2020 @ 1:21 pm

  2470. That worked. Guess the others were too long.

    Comment by jack widmaier — January 14, 2020 @ 1:23 pm

  2471. Jack,

    I contacted Craig Sprout at csprout@gmail.com
    He is the site troubleshooter. Hopefully, this will get your 2 posts listed.
    Would you mind listing your email address on this site or if not, can you email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 14, 2020 @ 2:00 pm

  2472. my email address is : jwidphoto@comcast.net

    Comment by jack widmaier — January 14, 2020 @ 8:04 pm

  2473. Re post# 2469. Jack, I tried some time back to post a rather longish bio about my Army and later time. But it would not show up. I tried several times with the same results. Finally, I shortened it and it finally posted. But there was a period where nothing seemed to post and that may have been some tech issue with the site.

    Hope that you try again, maybe in two parts, as I’m anxious to hear about your experiences as a 97C. I worked in a “Collection” unit and loved my job!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — January 14, 2020 @ 10:17 pm

  2474. Hi everyone. I know some of you have problems posting, and I am doing what I can to make sure you are able to get everything posted. To that end, I want to take a minute and explain a little bit about how the system works.

    This site has been around for almost 20 years, and is a heavy target for comment spam, so if you are a first time commenter, chances are your comment will go to the moderation queue to be approved. I try to keep up on this, but sometimes it goes by the wayside. If you think your comment has been moderated, email me directly, and I’ll check into it.

    Secondly, for long comments. There is no real limit on the size of the posting. I double-checked those, and the limits are high enough that you should be able to post a few thousand words without hitting the limit.

    That said, it doesn’t always work right, and some comments don’t get posted, and don’t make it to the moderation queue. I know that this has happened a couple of times recently. I’m honestly not sure what happened in those cases. If your comment doesn’t make it, please send me an email with the date and time that it happened, so that if it didn’t end up in the moderation queue, I can look through the log files and maybe get an idea of what might be going on.

    Thank you all for your service, and for your continued patience.

    –C
    csprout@gmail.com

    Comment by mtsprout — January 15, 2020 @ 11:10 am

  2475. Graig,
    Thank you for being the moderator/troubleshooter all these years. I Have been enjoying these posts since the beginning with entry #3 “to my credit”.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — January 15, 2020 @ 12:09 pm

  2476. Craig,

    Thank you again for all of your hard work on our behalf. Thank you for your service to us which has been provided free of charge. We are so fortunate to have a website like this where aging MI veterans have an opportunity to commiserate with one another.

    Best always,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 15, 2020 @ 1:38 pm

  2477. Is leaving an email an invitation to unsolicited junk mail? Somehow I remember Jim suggesting not doing this. Any advice?
    Glad to do so if not an issue. Let me know.
    Manny

    Comment by manny Adler — January 15, 2020 @ 5:46 pm

  2478. Manny,

    Re:2471

    I have left mine several times since I first starting posting in 2013. I got/get lots of junk mail before and since my first posting.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 15, 2020 @ 7:07 pm

  2479. Craig, I second Phil’s comments in thanking you for the hard work you do to keep this site going!

    I am so pleased that it exists and I check it daily as I look forward to reading comments from my fellow MI Veterans.

    And Phil, thank you for your work in keeping this site going. I’m one of those that has provided you with my email and receive your emails with the interesting and usually fun information and photos. Keep’em coming!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — January 15, 2020 @ 10:16 pm

  2480. Warriors,

    Thank you Tony!

    Two things on my agenda, first, please don’t get discouraged if your information does not get posted on the first try. As requested, contact Craig at csprout@gmail.com

    Second, if you would like me to send you items of interest, e.g., military related, beautiful scenery, or humorous, but never political, email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 16, 2020 @ 10:38 am

  2481. Thanks for keeping this website up and running. It provides great memories for all of us who may have been assigned to Holabird at any time. My experience was a brief 4 months from April 1967 through early August 1967.

    I worked under MSG Trimper. I was Company Clerk in one of the training companies, but I did not attend any classes. I never understood why I was assigned to Ft Holabird immediately after Basic at Ft. Jackson, but those were the orders received upon completion of Basic Trainaing. As soon as I completed 6 months of Active Duty Training, I was released from Active Duty and sent to my Home unit, 78th Div (tng) USAR in Lodi, NJ.

    Does anybody remember MSG Trimper? He was at Ft Holabird for quite a while.

    Comment by Peter Fanuele — January 22, 2020 @ 11:15 pm

  2482. Back in 2465 and environs, mention was made of class’d mtls. Check it out, if possible, ’cause lots from that era has been declass’d. I know two elint target locations that were TS at that time but which are now non-class’d. In fact one can read about them both on the Web.
    Not makin’ waves, just sayin’.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — January 26, 2020 @ 7:57 pm

  2483. Hello: Just checking in. My first post was in November 18, 2009, #190. I did have some communication with fellow 97B, Wayne Akemoto, served with him and his father Charles I Akemoto in the 525 MID on Okinawa in 1967-68. Great memories. Also was at LA Field Office, in 115th MI Gp in Pasadena from 4/66 to 4/67 (about 15 minutes from home). Now in my twilight years, it’s great to remember the good times from the Bird to the Rock. Take care and thanks for keeping up the site.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 15, 2020 @ 11:46 am

  2484. Fellow Vets, et.al.,
    My Goodness (P.C.) it has been 16 years and 8 days since my first posting and still waiting for Godot. “Hope is the last muse to leave the grave”(Dante). Thanks to all of you and I will keep compulsively checking in.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — February 19, 2020 @ 5:34 pm

  2485. Manny,

    Happy Sixteen Year Anniversary! I know that all of us have appreciated your postings since 2004. You have been the most consistent poster since then. Your commentary has been most appreciated. Here is hoping that you will continue to bless us with your presence for years to come.

    Best always,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 19, 2020 @ 7:19 pm

  2486. l’chaim, Manny!

    Comment by Bill Schulz — February 19, 2020 @ 7:38 pm

  2487. Congratulations on 16 years of providing all of us from The Bird with interesting and informative opinions and information. I always read your posts with great interest and thoroughly enjoy hearing your (and everyone else’s) experiences at and since our beloved Bird.
    All the best Manny!

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 19, 2020 @ 8:02 pm

  2488. Manny,

    Time flies when you’re having fun. Let’s hope we can have another 16 years.

    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 19, 2020 @ 8:04 pm

  2489. Lets face it Bernie. Sixteen more years is is pretty optimistic for most of us. We should set aside a good bottle of brandy to be awarded to the last one standing!

    Comment by jack widmaier — February 19, 2020 @ 9:11 pm

  2490. I have a question that I haven’t been able to answer for sure. Is the original “Jim” who posted his story about arriving at the Bird, one of the Jims who remain part of this site. Phil, Im sure you know. Introduce us to the original “Jim”. Thanks. In one way or another, I’m sure we all experienced a similar shock when arriving at Fort Holabird. It had to be the most laid back, unique Army Bases in the US of A.

    Comment by jack widmaier — February 19, 2020 @ 9:22 pm

  2491. Congratulations Manny! Sweet sixteen.
    Here’s to 16 more interesting years.
    Bill Leach

    Comment by bill leach — February 19, 2020 @ 9:39 pm

  2492. Congratulations Manny! And thank you very much for your contributions and for helping to keep this wonderful blog going. I hope that it can continue for a very long time!

    Tony

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 19, 2020 @ 10:25 pm

  2493. Jack,

    As far as I can tell, Jim Flynn has not posted any items on this site for sometime. However, he is forever the individual who I hold in my gratitude for creating this site for all of us to share. As you have acknowledged, Jim posted the initial story on this site about his arrival at Fort Holabird.
    Since then, he has posted comments over the years, especially when called upon specifically by name.

    Another Jim is Jim Wiles who is a frequent contributor to the site.

    Jack, as you also acknowledge, the Fort Holabird experience was a truly unique one. I think about it nearly every day. I check the site regulary. Thanks to you, Manny, all of those listed above for your continued postings.

    Fort Holabird lives on in our memories!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 20, 2020 @ 2:08 pm

  2494. Keep up the commentary Manny, it keeps bouncing along Colgate Creek bridge!

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — February 20, 2020 @ 4:37 pm

  2495. Ed (2494),

    “Bouncing?” No way. More like dragging at 83. But thanks for the support.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 20, 2020 @ 5:44 pm

  2496. Thanks Manny! and all. I check the site at least once a week. Although most of what happened at FH for all of us is fifty years or more old it’s uniqueness left an impression and strong nostalgia for some of us. I have been posting for 10 years and still haven’t heard from a single classmate… I will keep checking in though.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — February 20, 2020 @ 6:21 pm

  2497. Some days I’m lucky to remember where I left my keys and wallet. But I can remember almost every thing about Fort Holabird. It was interesting, fun, and different. The people I met there is what made it special. I might not remember all their names but I remember the good times we had. I can’t imagine a better place to spend my 3 year enlistment.
    I just wish we had more pictures and videos of those times.
    At least we have this site. Keep it up!
    Bill Leach

    Comment by bill leach — February 20, 2020 @ 9:50 pm

  2498. Bill(2497),

    Unlike so many other military veterans we largely served in either small units (detachments, two man/person teams, even individual assignments or the like) so that we do not have reunions, i.e. “members of the ——(fill in the space). Wow what a sentence. So this site fits that need?

    Daryl (2496),

    Like you I started posting 14 years ago hoping to contact a few of the folks I served with but alas also no luck. But I’ve met a whole lot of new friends right here.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 24, 2020 @ 5:56 am

  2499. Be enough on this site 10 plus years posting occasionally and have not seen anyone I know. Met a bunch of like wise Holibirdians along the way though!

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — February 24, 2020 @ 6:23 pm

  2500. Guys,

    Ditto, I have never met anyone who I attended classes with at Fort Holabird here, however, I have made quite a few friends since I first began posting on this website.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 24, 2020 @ 7:01 pm

  2501. Haven’t written for a few months and Richard Duarte’s (2483) comments kind of gave me a prodding to make a comment or two. I do not recall seeing any comments from classmates from 66-B-24. Our class time in Holabird ran from late May to mid September 1966. My association with MI or CIC ran a much longer time because my dad went through Holabird in 1948. He was in Japan until 1955 with the 441. He was in FOs in Detroit and Denver before being assigned to the 401st in Hawaii. He ended up with DIS both as a warrant and a civilian retiring for good in 1974. Like Richard D. who was with the 526th in Okinawa from 66-68, I was with them from 67 to 69, I actually worked under my dad in the Naha Field Office for a few months. Bet that there are not any of you who can say that you worked under your father while in the military. It was quite an experience to say the least. I do not know how the units you served with overseas were, but in our office in Okinawa, the make up of personnel was both military and civilian. There were those with much experience and those of us with little. There was a mix of agents and interpreter/translaters. Some of the I/T personnel acted as agents to a certain degree. For the most part, they did not have any training in writing or intelligence gathering so often times agents would debrief I/T personnel on their contacts with “intel sources” and reports would be developed from those debriefings. More later.
    Wayne Akemoto

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — February 25, 2020 @ 11:01 pm

  2502. I don’t remember whether or not I posted this before but I will do it anyway. I came across the Class Roster for my MI Coordinator Course, 66-C-2, which graduated on Oct. 22, 1965.

    So far I’ve seen the names of two individuals on this blog that were in the class with me. They are Bill Leach and Dwight Zimpel.

    Graduating on the same date was an Agent Class, 66-B-1, and I have the roster for that class as well.

    I remember rushing back to the Student Building that afternoon after the graduation ceremony to pack and be taken to the train station in Baltimore and traveling by train to NYC. Several of us spent that Friday night at the Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmens Hotel in NYC.

    The following morning we took a taxi to the Brooklyn Army Terminal to board the USNS General Maurice Rose for our fun cruise to Brememhaven, West Germany.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 27, 2020 @ 6:33 pm

  2503. Hi Tony, After the graduation ceremony, I left the hall and turned right into SGM O’Rourke’s office where he started to hand out assignments to about 5 or 6 other graduates who like me didn’t have orders yet.Then turned to me and my buddy Rick Nesbit and said “what am I going to do with you two”? After a few minutes he came up with an Idea. “We are starting our own S-2 for the school and maybe you two could get it started”. He sent us to Troop Command which was in the basement of the student barracks building. The next day we met a civilian woman who had worked in the Post S-2. The 3 of us started the office of the S-2 with just Mrs Rose Noland and a copy of AR 604-5. A week later, a 2nd Lt Harland Lunsford walked in and we were off and running. Over the next 3 years, we had three different S-2 Officers but me and Rick hung on until our separation. Mrs Noland was still there when we left. I think she was well into her 70s but she taught us well. Great times!

    Comment by bill leach — February 27, 2020 @ 11:49 pm

  2504. Bill, wow, you didn’t do too badly with that assignment! I vaguely remember some of the assignments that our class members were getting. One guy went to Korea, another to Ethiopia, and other exotic places.

    I knew that I was going to Germany soon after our class started. I had volunteered for Vietnam and got orders to go, but they were rescinded. Then I was offered an assignment pretty much any where in the world that we had an Intelligence Corps unit so I chose Germany, and specifically, an intelligence collection unit.

    Several other guys from our class went to Germany with me on the troopship. They were: Jimmy Turner, Phil Pasco, Bob Hansen, and Ed Mooney. All great guys!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 28, 2020 @ 7:27 pm

  2505. This YouTube story about “Project 100,000” was authored by Hugh Hamilton Gregory. It was an Amazon.com Best Seller. The program was started by Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara to fill the ever increasing needs for manpower during the height of the Vietnam War. Hamilton served in Vietnam as a Military Intelligence Special Agent from 1968 – 1969. He died in June 2018 at age 74 after a long tenure as a college professor in North Carolina.

    Rather than buy the book, you may want to view Hamilton Gregory’s presentation on YouTube. It lasts just over 30 minutes.

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — March 2, 2020 @ 9:58 am

  2506. It has been two weeks since Phil’s post. Time to stand muster.
    Say “yo” if your still here given our ages and the “VIRUS”, et.al..
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 15, 2020 @ 7:44 am

  2507. Manny et al,

    Thanks for your latest posting! I just saw an interview between Jonathan Carl and Dr. Anthony Fauchi. Aside from being consumed by his current job, Dr. Fauchi said that he does not go out.. I think that if we can limit our outside activities as much as possible, that would be preferred. I know that we have to continue to get get food and meds but let’s face it we are all over 70, some over 80, and a few even older. Home delivery never looked so good, if it is available in your area. In the meantime, stock up and hunker down. Chime in as Manny requested.

    Yo,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 15, 2020 @ 9:41 am

  2508. Still standing in Ventura County, one friend down with virus. everyone take care, YO!

    Comment by Richard Duarte — March 15, 2020 @ 10:00 am

  2509. For those who might be interested, Germany (my country of residence) has just announced new, preventive measures and restrictions to combat the Corona virus. They have closed the borders to France and Austria and are considering further closures. Internally, all schools, kindergardens, universities, etc are closed until further notice and it some major cities, including Berlin, bars, restaurants, cafes, clubs (basically all non-essential public facilities) are forced to close for business too.
    Be well brothers ! Yo
    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 15, 2020 @ 3:10 pm

  2510. Wife & I are doing well here in Solano County, California, USA. Saying prayers for those folks that are in quarantine at the hotel at nearby Travis AFB. They were originally on the cruise ship that was brought in to the Port of Oakland terminal (former Oakland Army Base that some of you know only too well).

    Take care everyone – Yo !

    Tony

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 15, 2020 @ 3:45 pm

  2511. Ides of March, 2020
    Orange County, CA checking in. Near normal except for occasional lines at grocery stores, lack of paper products, and some absent perishable food products.
    Yo
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 15, 2020 @ 5:26 pm

  2512. Yo
    I’m well and so is my family. My wife is in Portugal and due to come home in two weeks. Things could be crazier by then and I hope all the hysteria is passed by that time. U.S. citizens coming into country now are.having up to an 6-8 hour wait going through customs. As long as she can get back without being quarantined. I believe most of this is overblown and the authorities in addition to basic careful measures should stress keeping your immune system
    charged. People are running around like lemmings!
    I hope the best for my Parkway friends and their families.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 15, 2020 @ 5:59 pm

  2513. YO,
    Thank God for cable and the internet. The Governor of Massachusetts just closed the schools until the 7th of April (maybe longer) and restaurants can only sell take-out.
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — March 15, 2020 @ 8:23 pm

  2514. Yo
    Ref 2512. I forgot to mention that I’m from Waterbury, Ct.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 15, 2020 @ 11:42 pm

  2515. Yo
    Ref. 2507. Thanks Ed, because I also failed to mention that I hale from just outside of Baltimore, MD (home of Fort Holablrd). Anyone who would like to chat during this period, please drop me a line at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 16, 2020 @ 10:08 am

  2516. YO! Alive and lively… still
    Re: 2514- My wife has a brother with the same name as you, a native of Seymour currently living in Rockville, MD. Father was Edwin “Lloyd;” brother Art, a dentist in RI. Relatives?
    And the rest of you, if you’ve read this far, a hearty greetings from FL where the weather is just perfect- 65-70 overnight, days mid 80s.
    FL is truly God’s waiting room.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — March 16, 2020 @ 10:15 am

  2517. Yo
    Ref. 2515. Hey Bill, Seymour is only 10-15 miles from here but never met your wife’s brother although we may be related somehow. The best to you and your family.

    Comment by Edwardwhotchkiss — March 16, 2020 @ 10:22 pm

  2518. Yo
    Ref 2515. Hi Bill, Seymour is about 10-15 miles from here and I don’t know your sisters brother with my namesake. We could be related as there aren’t too many last names like ours.
    Be well,Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 17, 2020 @ 1:13 am

  2519. All present and accounted for (almost)! Good job troops.
    Manny
    p.s. we do follow orders.

    Comment by manny adler — March 17, 2020 @ 6:47 am

  2520. Just reading up to the present from my last thorough go-thru. Found a few noteworthy (?) things to comment on.
    Ed H, typo. Should have said “my wife has a brother-IN-LAW,” no big deal but an embarrassing brain f**t. (Proofread, Schulzie!)
    Next, I’m painfully aware that you guys (wait for it) had FUN at the ‘Bird. I was 26 with a BFA in industrial design… and a wife and lived off-post- sex but no social life. Dum bass army should have sent me to Belvoir where the ergonomics/human factors lab would have been right up my alley. Ah, well, wouldn’t have had the chance to be in both the Army of the United States AND the United States Army all within 39 months. And I got to live in Turkey for a year and a half.
    Did I ever mention that Uncle footed the bill to ship my car to Instanbul but that Maureen’s flight over was on our nickel?
    Oh, well, there’s the right way and the army way.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — March 17, 2020 @ 8:20 pm

  2521. Bill (2518),

    “FUN”? Maybe trainees, permanent party not so much. We pulled all the crap details on top of our regular jobs. I also suspect EM and Officers experienced things very differently. Still everything being equal, which it never is, Holabird had it way above all the other possible places we might have ended up. Any comments? Would love to hear how others fared.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 18, 2020 @ 11:16 am

  2522. Manny, I avoided all extra duty after my first year at the Bird by being “selected” for one of the honor guard teams for graduations. I didn’t volunteer but when the other men heard it exempted us from KP and OD, they all wanted to do it. We also got the rest of the day off after the graduation.

    Comment by bill leach — March 18, 2020 @ 1:20 pm

  2523. Bill L., Bill S., Manny,

    I must have been one of the few guys to go through Agent School and later Photo Intell. School to never have had to participate in extra duty. Being from Baltimore, I was lucky enough to live at home and commute to post on a daily basis. On the day that I was supposed to have KP, I ended up on “sick call.” Additionally, on the day I was supposed to go to the rifle range at Ft. Meade, I overslept. I reported late that morning and everyone had already been bussed out. I ended up spending the day with the SGM and the CSGM. I was sure that they were going to make me move back on base but fortunately I escaped any adverse action.

    I also had verbal orders to do a tour in Vietnam, however, on the morning I reported to S-1, they changed my orders to the ROK. I completed my tour there and ETS’d on an early out to return to college. I was one of a few agents in my class who did not have a college degree.

    I must have had some kind of a lucky streak. Maybe, it stems from the Irish heritage on my mother’s side.

    Happy Belated St. Paddy’s Day!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 18, 2020 @ 5:01 pm

  2524. Phil,

    You are truly my hero. Wow!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 19, 2020 @ 2:37 pm

  2525. Manny,

    It gets even better in civilian life. My friend married a gal from Baltimore we had both met in Ocean City, MD. I attended the wedding and caught the garter belt. They divorced. A few years later, she and I met again in a night club, this time in Balimore. We married and have been together for 36 years.

    BTW, you are my hero, Dr. Adler!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 19, 2020 @ 5:24 pm

  2526. Yo! Doing well in Seattle, King County WA. the epicenter of this virus mess. King County is building a tent hospital on a soccer field for expected patients. I went out and bought a Costco box of spam to be safe!! Hope everyone of us fairs well.

    Daryl

    Comment by Daaryl Petrarca — March 20, 2020 @ 2:47 pm

  2527. I posted earlier and it did not show up so here goes.
    Yo! I am in Seattle, King County the epicenter of this virus mess. King County is building a field hospital on a local soccer field for possible patients. We are doing well and I hope all of you will be the same. To be careful I bought a box of Spam!!!
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 20, 2020 @ 3:47 pm

  2528. Daryl,

    Can of spam? Didn’t know it came in a box. Now off to the “cabin fever” ward.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 21, 2020 @ 4:27 am

  2529. Manny,
    Sorry for the confusion. Costco sells a box full of cans of Spam. I think the Spam may get me before the virus does…

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 23, 2020 @ 2:18 pm

  2530. Daryl,
    You are absolutely correct, both the Costco boxes and the the cause of death by spam. Love your sense of humor.

    Troops: sick call! “Step out.” ” No. All present and accounted for?”
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 24, 2020 @ 7:38 am

  2531. Present and well, one friend is down, VN bush vet but getting better. All take care

    Comment by Richard Duarte — March 24, 2020 @ 9:54 am

  2532. Manny,

    Present and accounted for sir!

    Phil O.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 24, 2020 @ 5:26 pm

  2533. All,

    You may have noticed tat this website is back after being down all weekend. Our thanks to Craig Sprout, our troubleshooter, for restoring it.

    Yesterday, was National Vietnam War Veterans Day. A salute to all of you who served in Vietnam!

    If anyone would like to chat on another venue during these challenging times, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Stay healthy,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 30, 2020 @ 7:51 am

  2534. Thanks Craig and Phil!

    Stay safe!

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 30, 2020 @ 11:16 am

  2535. To get our minds off of the pandemic how many people remember the 1,2,3 Club at FH. How much was a picture of beer when you where there? I can’t remember if it was $.25 cents or $.75 cents.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 30, 2020 @ 4:03 pm

  2536. Daryl, in 1965 I think it was $.25.
    That’s when Sgt Rander was the bartender.
    See Post #1943. Quite a guy and interesting story.

    Comment by bill leach jr — March 30, 2020 @ 9:31 pm

  2537. First of all, a big Thank You to Craig for restoring our blog.

    RE# 2535, I went to the 1,2,3 Club quite a few times during my stay at FH during 1965. But I never paid for the beer. I had a friend whose name, unfortunately, I cannot remember. She was a WAC in an Agent Course ahead of mine and she always insisted on paying for the beer. I was never able to get her to let me buy! She was a PFC while I was only an E-2 and she must have realized how poor I was.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 30, 2020 @ 9:33 pm

  2538. Re; post 2537. Bill I missed him by a month or two. Interesting guy! I was there in Sept-early Oct? 1967. Our newly arrived group opened up an old WWII wooden barracks next to the WACs barracks to hold folks until classes started. Spent a few days making bags (25 dirty sheets per bag) of used sheets to take to the base laundry. Otherwise we just sat around waiting…..

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 1, 2020 @ 3:10 pm

  2539. Sorry Bill I meant 2536 in previous post (old age!)

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 1, 2020 @ 3:42 pm

  2540. Daryl, while you were a “casual” waiting for class, you could have been working in our office, S2/3 Troop Command. We were in the first floor of the big brick students barracks. The first door from the old wooden barrack that was headquarters for the casual company. We always had a casual cleaning the floors and getting our coffee.
    I remember one young private trying to get a free coke and getting his hand caught in the coke machine in the casual co. HQ. They told everyone around and we all just watched and laughed for about a half hour. (I hope it wasn’t you)!

    Comment by bill leach — April 1, 2020 @ 10:00 pm

  2541. Yes and it still hurts!! Just kidding.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 2, 2020 @ 4:39 pm

  2542. Wow Bill, things changed from late 67 to early 68. I was in casual company from sometime in March 68 to sometime in July 68. I was there that long because another member of casual company was assigned to wherever class assignments were being made. Computers weren’t used in those days, just files that were rotated until your file made it to the front., then you went to class. However, there was a group of us whose files kept ending up at the back of the file, and class never came until we wanted it, but our time in service kept moving on. Meanwhile, we managed to get great assignments while in casual. It was probably my extended time in casual company that gave me the opportunity to switch from an assignment to a 97B class to a 97 C course. Apparently not all that many people got the opportunity to change their assignment, or they didn’t do it when offered. As for how that came about, that’s another story. As for cleaning floors during the day and getting people coffee, there was no way in hell that I would have gotten anyone their coffee. That may have ended my career in intelligence before it even started. I was lucky, from basic thru my time in service, I managed to avoid taking orders from people who gave orders just because they could. If I didn’t respect the person giving the order, I didn’t accept the order. However, if I respected the person giving the order, I accepted it without question. Again, another story.

    Comment by jack widmaier — April 2, 2020 @ 8:57 pm

  2543. Jack, we didn’t ORDER them to get us coffee. We did it to keep them busy. That was the whole idea of casuals. Keep them busy so they wouldn’t just sit on their asses all day.

    Comment by bill leach — April 2, 2020 @ 10:03 pm

  2544. All,

    Permanent party also spent time in casual company. We didn’t know why (found out years later it was until our BI’s where completed). I mostly hid in empty barracks until they found out I was on base though I checked in every morning. They finally got on to the fact that I really did exist and was assigned to Cpl. Meeks’ floor mopping detail(he was one of the Forrest Gump types without the charm and decency). There were permanent party that students may not have noticed who you could find anywhere in the Army.

    Now that I have time to think about it, thanks to the lock-down, I didn’t know much of anything that went on. I am learning almost everything from this site, thanks to all of you. A perfect profile of an 18 year old dumb soldier.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 3, 2020 @ 6:57 am

  2545. Hello, Hope everyone is well. First post was #190, 11/18/09 These are strange times but it does give you time to think back and time in MI was truly a great time for me. I try to remember some of the names, Roger Seward (Chicago area); Cliff Mower (Cumberland, MD; Chuck Guinn, Pasadena CA; Almost the whole class went DLI in Monterey, one only went directly to NAM, Marlin. Graduated 3/66, I was sent back to CA, 15 minutes from home, with LAFO, 115th MI Gp. On orientation, Hensel took me around Hollywood and went to a movie for the afternnoon. I knew I was in a different world. Later alerted for the 526 MID in NAM. Some great guys, CWO Suzuki, Col Sueda, DiGiorgio, Davila, Gary(first names and others will come back to me) Orders changed magically to the 526 MID on Okinawa, 15 months at Camp Kue and Club Cobean, Naha, Koza. Walt Gainey, Charles I Akemoto, called him CIA, his son Wayne was in Nam before, Sumiko at the airport (not in MI), Col Mock, Wayne from Chicago, many others Anyway thanks for letting me ramble. Everyone stay at home and be well.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 3, 2020 @ 11:19 am

  2546. Since we need to stay inside [COVID-19], let’s hear more stories. In the current theme, I spend less than a week in casual company before beginning the agent class in Jan. 1956. One morning 3-4 of us were assigned to police the outer perimeter of Holabird. After walking for a while, out leader said let’s go to the library which we did for the rest of the morning, Of course the sarge drove around the perimeter and didn’t see us. We caught hell, but nothing more.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 3, 2020 @ 12:22 pm

  2547. Just wondering and a little research. Most of us seem to have been EM or EW. Any officers among us? If not I wonder why?
    How about a breakdown. Boy I must be bored!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 3, 2020 @ 2:15 pm

  2548. Hunkering down in Hawaii. In HI, we are living with different categories of 14 quarantines. If you fly back to HI and are a resident, you are required to self-quarantine yourself at your residence for 14 days. If you are a tourist, you are required to quarantine yourself at a hotel for 14 days. If you go out of your residence, it is strongly suggested that you wear a mask. Comments from fellow 526 MID compatriot Richard Duarte almost causes me to add my 2 cent comments. If you were an unaccompanied personnel, the normal Okinawa tour lasted 18 months. If you brought a sponsored family it was a 30 month tour. When I was assigned to the 526 in October 1967, my tour was supposed to be for 16 months, but I extended my enlistment for 5 months so I ended up in Oki for 21 months. My dad was there 43 months before he was sent to RVN with the 135th MI Group. Richard mentioned a few 526th personnel. Walt Gainey was a CWO who along with other CWOs Howard Choi and Harry Matsuno who were part of a traveling team that went to many places in the Far East (Thailand, Taiwan, PI, Japan, Korea) Do not know what they did, but must have been interesting. LTC Mock was the commander at that time. He ended up in HI and is interred with his wife at Punchbowl. One of the other Waynes mention is Wayne Barg from Lombard, IL which is just outside Chicago. Smart guy-he ended up working under my dad at the 526 HQ at Camp Due. Sumiko if I remember was a civilian worker at the Naha International Airline Terminal. She was a great source for the 526 guys who worked with the port team.
    Everyone take care and stay healthy.
    Wayne A.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — April 3, 2020 @ 4:15 pm

  2549. Hello All: Glad you’re OK Wayne, thanks for some of the names. I went with Howard on one trip to Taipei, he was a very serious guy, but we did manage to have a great time there after meeting
    a high level source. Do you remember the name of Col Mock’s civilian friend? Take care

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 4, 2020 @ 10:09 am

  2550. Richard, Mock’s friend was Ted (last name is not coming to me). I know he retired in HI. You mentioned a Gary who was probably Gary Powers who was the opus officer for the 526th. He passed away from cancer while in Okinawa so you were probably there when that happened. Quite a few of the 526th guys ended up retiring in HI. In fact, 3 of them, including my dad lived within a block of each other. The other 2 were Jake Norimoto snd Fred Arashiro. Others who retired in HI and have since passed were Walt Kim, Wally Koroki, Ernie Nagasawa, Masayuki Takemoto, Itsuo Tokunaga, George Asato. I am sure you remember Mock’s young cohort Mike Nolan. He lived here for a while after getting out of the service. The only person I know for a fact is still alive and also living in HI is Harry Matsuno. He was originally from Colorado.
    Wayne Akemoto

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — April 4, 2020 @ 3:25 pm

  2551. One night while I was stationed in the ROK, my Korean Army counterpart asked my Korean girlfriend and me out to dinner. I lived on Stonestown Compound in Taejon and she lived in Chung Dong Ni, just outside the main gate of Camp Ames, a former nuclear weapons storage site. He picked me up in his black jeep at my compound and we proceeded to my girlfriend’s night club where we had dinner and listened to music. The one song from that night I will never forget was Get Ready by Rare Earth, blaring from the oversized speakers, #4 on the Billboards Chart in 1970. We had a great time and my girlfriend doubled as my interpreter as my CPT counterpart spoke very little English. We only dabbled in small talk.

    Recently, I looked up Camp Ames on the web and found out that it, after 32 years, was turned over to the ROKs in 1992 and the nukes were shipped out to another US base. Korean civilians had purchase it later on and by 2014 had converted it into an art school for civilians.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 4, 2020 @ 4:05 pm

  2552. Richard,
    I remembered Ted’s last name or t least I think I remembered it. Stone is what comes to mind-Ted Stone!! A couple of other names are Joe Onaka and Roger Marlotte. Others are Bart Chimenti, Mario Fachitelli, Pete Nelson, Dave Baker, Joe Drischol. I do not attest to the accuracy of the last names, especially the spellings. Charles Wolfe is any of the young agents who like you and I were there for only our first enlistment.
    Wayne Akemoto

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — April 5, 2020 @ 3:20 pm

  2553. Re #2543
    Bill – Not trying to start an argument, but, you may not have ORDERED him to do anything, but he sent on orders from a superior ranking individual in Casual Company. That person and only that person, gave him an order to report to your area and sweep the floors. Once he had completed that task, he was free to do as he pleased. He may not have realized it, but after completing his order, he was free to sit on his as or leave and do what ever he wanted. As for the guy with his arm stuck in he coke machine, I agree it was pretty stupid, but so was standing around laughing at him for a half hour. He was a fellow soldier. You obviously didn’t have anything better to do if you could spend a half hour just watching and laughing at his discomfort. If you, in a combat situation had done something stupid and found yourself pinned down under fire as a result, would you have been upset if your fellow soldiers stood around out of the line of fire and laughed at your stupidity? Again, not wanting an argument, but you were “inferring” orders to wait on you. You should have said: “Get lost. Enjoy your day. See you tomorrow.” Just sayin’.

    Comment by jack widmaier — April 5, 2020 @ 8:53 pm

  2554. Hello:
    Hope all is well with everyone. Thanks Wayne it was Ted Stone, we used to go into Koza for some time. I think Mario Fascitelli was from Buffalo and was going to marry a girl from Okinawa. I roomed with Pete and Dave in Naha AFB BOQ. I think I saw post from one of them that he had reenlisted and went to OCS and retired as a Major! Thanks for letting me ramble, take care.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 6, 2020 @ 11:05 am

  2555. Jack, I’m not trying to start an argument either. I’m afraid I didn’t explain what the “casuals” duty was. He would be assigned to a certain task for the day. The entire day. It would be the same as working a regular position, the same as the other people in the office. It also taught them to follow orders. They were assigned by their company first sergeant and they would ask us what to do when they got there. Usually that was to sweep the floor and make coffee. It wasn’t just for our office, it was for the whole Troop Command.
    As for the pvt who got his arm stuck in the machine while trying to STEAL a coke, we didn’t stand around for a half hour. It took a half hour to get someone from maintenance to release his hand. Haven’t you ever laughed at someone doing something stupid? And he wasn’t pinned down under fire. He got caught trying to steal a coke from the Casual Co. Headquarters.

    Comment by bill leach — April 6, 2020 @ 3:57 pm

  2556. Bill(2555),

    I didn’t know there was a casual company headquarters. May this is why I floated around for a week or so because reported to the main headquarters company where I remained for 2+ years.

    Good Lord, I learn more from you guys and gals (P.C.).
    where were my brains back then. Probably still at Knox and Gordon.
    Thanks all.

    Comment by manny adler — April 7, 2020 @ 3:59 pm

  2557. Manny, it probably didn’t exist until they separated the school from the post. USAINTC was post and USAINTS was the school. They split in 1965.

    Comment by bill leach — April 7, 2020 @ 8:56 pm

  2558. When I received my initial orders from basic training to Fort Holabird, there was a notation that I would be in Class 66-B-24 which was the class I ended up in. There was no starting date for the class. When I reported in to Casual Company, I was sent to the billeting office to “assist” as they needed me. That office was open 24/7 and I was assigned the night shift from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. I remember having to work through the Memorial Day weekend. After a week, I was told that my class was going to start and I had to report to the big student housing building for further assignment. I remember that we were billeted on the third floor on the side closest to the main road and that we shared that space with a coordinator’s class. I was the first person in the big bay and took the top bunk the furthest away from the front door. My bunkmate was a guy from New York-Robert Burns. Additional comments to Richard Duarte–both Pete and Dave went to OCS. I remember reading some comments from Dave who made the army a career. I remember that Pete kept in contact with my dad for a period of time. The last I remember he had made CPT, but had a touch time in an assignment in Thailand and was considering getting out of the service. A couple of other names have come to mind who worked with the travel section at the airport and Naha Port-Dave Hewitt and Al Wirsig. Dave was married and on an accompanied tour and Al was a bachelor like us. Think he was also at the Naha BOQs. I think I was also supposed to be there, but lived at the NFO instead. Wayne Akemoto

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — April 7, 2020 @ 10:49 pm

  2559. Hello, good health to all. Wayne, I remember Al Wirsig. He replaced me at the Airport Watch team I got one letter from Wayne Barg and he said that Al was going to also marry a girl from Okinawa. I remember some great conversations with your dad, he helped me out a lot. take care

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 10, 2020 @ 11:12 am

  2560. Arrived at F.H. early Jan 1966 left for Ft Bragg on April 1966 left with 96b20 and and 96c20 mos We lived in WW2 barracks in the Spring Lake area I think that I was in CoA Left Bragg the first week of July by air then left for Viet Nam on the troop ship Gen Gordon the next stop was the 519th MI Bn Co A which was for interrogators but I ended up at CICV ADP before that I never saw any

    Comment by Jim Mueller — April 10, 2020 @ 5:37 pm

  2561. Re: 2483. I was also in the LAFO during that time period. I was on PSI Team 1 and also Team 5.

    Re: 2501. I was also in class 66-B-24 at Ft Holabird.

    Comment by Ed Harris — April 10, 2020 @ 11:15 pm

  2562. Hello all: Ed Harris, I was also on team 5 and SIS at LAFO, April 1966 to March 1967. Do you remember team leader DiGiorgio? There was a civilian, drove an older white Jaguar, can’t remember his name. Also, a bunch of S/As lived in apartments on “widows drive” in South Pasadena. Good times!

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 15, 2020 @ 10:41 am

  2563. First time on the site in a couple of years. Glad to hear that all are doing good. We are doing good her in Apache Creek, NM, Catron county is 7000 square miles and only has 3500 people more elk than people. Just keep the distance. Like to tell you of one of the army biggest mistakes. Was with the 502 in Korea as a S/A when I got my order back to the states in June 67. Was assigned to a field office in Kalamazoo, Michigan 60 miles from my home and where I enlisted from. I DID NOT ask for it just got it.
    Jeff Terrell

    Comment by Jeff — April 16, 2020 @ 5:02 pm

  2564. Just found this site and have read some of it. Reference to comments #389 and #390 regarding Senator Ted Kennedy being rejected for service in Military Intelligence at Fort Holabird. This is true. Here is a comment that was taken from his biography on the Internet. “In June 1951, Kennedy enlisted in the United States Army and signed up for an optional four-year term that was shortened to the minimum of two years after his father intervened.[13] Following basic training at Fort Dix in New Jersey, he requested assignment to Fort Holabird in Maryland for Army Intelligence training, but was dropped without explanation after a few weeks.”

    I can attest that this was true. Before being accepted into CIC you had to pass a review by three persons, the last being the ACI of MI. Kennedy was first rejected by a lower rank officer rank officer at Fort Holabird. It then went to a second review by Colonel Richard Snyder who also rejected it on grounds of integrity and discretion. It then went to a Major General (ACI) who also rejected it. Then Senator John Kennedy had members of his staff contact the Major General and get him to withdraw was rejection. The General told the staff members that if they succeeded in over riding his decision that he would immediately resign his commission, call a press conference and tell the hold world…that ended the Ted Kennedy and the CIC. They then attempted to get him into the Army CID which also rejected him. Before Colonel Snyder died some years back, I had him write the details and send me an e-mail that is still on my computer under documents. Colonel Snyder was the CO of the 502nd CIC Detachment in Seoul, Korea in the early 1960s. Snyder told me personally that he was never so proud of the General in his life time as to be standing next to him when he stood his ground and rejected Ted Kennedy for CIC service. Before he died some years ago, I had him write the whole affair to me in an e-mail, the contents of such are still on my computer.

    I will write more later as I served in the 441st CIC Detachment in Tokyo, Japan in early 1957 to March 1958 in the S2 – Counter Espionage – Soviet Section. I believe we were the last Army MI group to target a Soviet Embassy as it was taken over by the CIA. On a worldwide military phase down in late 1957 and early 1958, I was reassigned to the 308th CIC Detachment in Seoul, Korea to the S2 – Counter Espionage – Special Investigations Team, the primary duty was to handle all high profile espionage case and the interrogation of all North Korean espionage sent across the DMZ in to South Korea. I probably interrogated some 12 or so of them with 2 being put before a firing squad and shot in 1958 by South Korea.

    Comment by Jim Cate — April 16, 2020 @ 9:15 pm

  2565. Johnny Dolin, ref#541

    Mr. Dolin, are you still on this board?

    Comment by Ben — April 16, 2020 @ 9:19 pm

  2566. I have read many former CIC agents stories and comments for several. I have read any that mentioned a “plant” in their CIC class. My class was 57B9 graduating in January 1957. We always suspected that there was a “plant or so” in our class. It turns out that there were two plants in our class that lived in the barracks with us. While serving in Seoul, Korea in 1958, on arrival in late March 1958, I casually bumped into a career Army person in my class. He informed that he was one of two plants in our class – Tom Mountain and did not reveal the identity of the other. Any one have comments on “plants” in their class?

    Comment by Jim Cate — April 16, 2020 @ 9:38 pm

  2567. Richard Duarte, I do not remember a DiGiorgio. When I went to Team 5 a Mr. Suzuki was the chief and later on it was Bob Jenkins. Both were senior warrant officers. I also lived at those apartments in South Pasadena.

    Comment by Ed Harris — April 18, 2020 @ 11:12 pm

  2568. RE: 541

    Joseph Dolin,

    Are you still on this board? If so, I have some pictures of Ethyl Duffield that I could send to you

    Comment by Ben Sigg — April 20, 2020 @ 11:29 pm

  2569. Thanks Ed Harris, I also worked for Mr. Suzuki, he helped me out for my orders to the 526 MID, Okinawa.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 23, 2020 @ 10:38 am

  2570. Remember the class on interrogation?
    When the paid actors put on a demo on how to conduct interrogations, the interrogator asked what college the uncooperative respondent had attended. The respondent said “Pusan U.” in a loud belligerent voice. We all laughed because the tone was clearly “piss on you”.

    We did our practice interrogations [1956] on the stage in the theater with fellow students in the audience. The actors were the respondents and would reveal their valuable information if we, the interrogators, asked the right specific questions. I don’t recall that any of us every gained any valuable info.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — May 2, 2020 @ 9:03 pm

  2571. Re:2570

    Bernie,

    Who can forget Joseph Bandiera, aka Peter Poor, who died in June 2006 at age 82 in Scottsdale, Arizona. He was an actor-instructor and interrogator at the Intelligence School at Fort Holabird and later at Fort Huachuca, AZ. He was buried with military honors at the Gardens of Faith Memorial Cemetery, not far from the post’s main entrance on Holabird Ave.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 2, 2020 @ 10:51 pm

  2572. Re Casual Company…when I got to FH in July 68 I was assigned to CC awaiting a 97B class. The company assignment clerk surprisingly was a cohort from high school. After saying he had to assign me to a work detail he asked if I could type. Since I could, he assigned me to the print shop and told me to tell the WAC in charge to take good care of me. My assignment was to do a stencil paragraph each day for a training book. Took me about 15 minutes. From then on I was free to do what I wanted on base. That lasted a week and school began. Upon grad, went on to the 108th in Newark, NJ.

    Comment by Vince Cavallo — May 4, 2020 @ 2:37 pm

  2573. Anyone,
    Since I am living 30 miles from Kent, Ohio and today is the 50th anniversary of the Kent State shootings, the news here has been full of this story. Just wondering if anyone was there at the time, either as a student, agent (see Church hearings 1976 or thereabouts) or National Guardsman? What a total F.U.B.A.R. that had to have been.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 4, 2020 @ 4:08 pm

  2574. Guys,

    Today Is National Nurses Appreciation Day! Please reach out to a nurse that you know or have had any connection with and thank them for their service to mankind.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 6, 2020 @ 10:26 am

  2575. I hope all of my Holabird friends are well and comfortable.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — May 20, 2020 @ 8:57 pm

  2576. I hope all of Holabird friends are well and comfortable.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — May 20, 2020 @ 9:00 pm

  2577. Ed,

    Maybe we should do a roll call to ensure that everyone is O.K. Could all contributors please sign In now as Manny indicated similarly back in March. I will start it off by signifying, “PRESENT!”

    Thanks!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil ostrander — May 20, 2020 @ 10:35 pm

  2578. PRESENT and doing well here in Northern California!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — May 20, 2020 @ 10:48 pm

  2579. Present and doing well in Southern California.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — May 20, 2020 @ 11:05 pm

  2580. “Yo”!

    Manny in Cleveland. Thanks Phil and squad.

    Comment by manny adler — May 21, 2020 @ 6:34 am

  2581. All is well, in Oxnard, CA, take care.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — May 21, 2020 @ 9:43 am

  2582. Present ?

    Comment by Bill leach — May 21, 2020 @ 10:36 am

  2583. Present and celebrating Father’s Day here in Germany with my daughters.

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 21, 2020 @ 2:18 pm

  2584. “TL3-4853, Schulz speaking, sir.” (Number for the Buffalo FO, 108th INTC Group, c. 1963)

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 21, 2020 @ 3:06 pm

  2585. All’s well in Hawaii. Pleas stay aware and healthy.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — May 21, 2020 @ 3:52 pm

  2586. Alive and kicking in Wayne, Pennsylvania.

    Comment by jack widmaier — May 21, 2020 @ 9:10 pm

  2587. Present again and well in Waterbury,Connecticut.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — May 22, 2020 @ 9:43 pm

  2588. Jim, Our orinanator, please tell us you are still with us!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 23, 2020 @ 6:43 am

  2589. Veterans,

    The server was down for a time this morning. Thankfully, Craig Sprout has restored it.

    Hope that everyone has a good and safe Memorial Day!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil ostrander — May 25, 2020 @ 10:59 am

  2590. Thanks to all who have served. Especially those who made the ultimate sacrifice. God bless.

    Comment by bill leach — May 25, 2020 @ 11:40 am

  2591. Present and well in Seattle! Let’s spend a moment of respect and gratitude to those who gave their all for us…..

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — May 25, 2020 @ 6:18 pm

  2592. Guys,

    Thank you for checking in during the Coronavirus Pandemic. I think that Manny and Ed would agree with me that it is good that we do this from time to time. We are very interested in the health and welfare of everyone out there during these challenging times.

    Best always,

    Phil
    Baltimore County

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 26, 2020 @ 8:21 am

  2593. Present and well in Apache Creek, NM thank God for all those in the services now and for all that have served

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — May 27, 2020 @ 4:22 pm

  2594. Present and in good health in Thurmont, MD

    Thanks for keeping this going. Stay well in these trying times.

    Comment by Pete Fanuele — June 2, 2020 @ 8:36 pm

  2595. My daughter just found this site and told me about it. She wanted to see what her father did in the military and she found my discharge papers. This led her to a search and Fort Holibird came up. I have spent the past several hours reading and remembering. I came to the Bird in June of 1961 by way of Ft. Ord basic training. My memory isn’t too good, but do remember a few of the things mentioned here. I was assigned to the 207th MI Battalion in Stuttgart for a year followed by an assignment to Nuremburg until discharge in 1964. Some names I remember are Dewey Trigg, Mike Wines (Elko, Nevada), Ken Taylor, Bill Marin, Gale Guthrie (Sacramento), Maj. Beauchamp, Burk. I have fond memories of times there and the people and the training. I guess it is time to tell my children and grandchildren what I did in the military. Thanks for maintaining this site. I will be back again. Best to all who have and are serving. jerrold.knight@gmail.com

    Comment by Jerry Knight — June 5, 2020 @ 6:33 pm

  2596. Hope no news is good news in these troubled times. Stay safe if possible.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — June 8, 2020 @ 11:20 am

  2597. Present and well in NYC.

    Comment by charles goffredo — June 10, 2020 @ 6:35 pm

  2598. Ref. 2595
    Glad you are well Charles, I don’t think we’ve heard from you in awhile.
    Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — June 10, 2020 @ 8:50 pm

  2599. Guys,

    As Daryl indicated, please check in so that we know that everyone is O.K.
    Manny, Wayne, Richard, Bill L., Gary, Tony, Bill S., Jeff, Bernie, Jack, and forgive me if I missed anyone, let us hear from you.

    Thanks!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 11, 2020 @ 9:13 am

  2600. We ate in a restaurant yesterday for my wife’s birthday. It was the first time sitting down in a restaurant for many months.

    Huntington Beach, CA
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — June 11, 2020 @ 9:27 am

  2601. Hi all! Per Phil’s suggestion via email, I’m checking in to let you all know that I’m doing well here in Northern California. The Copid-19 restrictions are being eased up here in our area.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — June 11, 2020 @ 1:11 pm

  2602. Still hanging on in Massachusetts.

    Comment by bill leach — June 11, 2020 @ 2:50 pm

  2603. Still here.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 11, 2020 @ 3:51 pm

  2604. All good here in Rheinland Pfalz, Germany. Glad to see you are all doing well.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 11, 2020 @ 7:17 pm

  2605. Still here, trying to make the best of the down side.

    Comment by jack widmaier — June 11, 2020 @ 8:47 pm

  2606. Bill Schulz emailed me to say that he and Maureen are “alive and kicking” in Central Florida.

    Thank you Bill!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 12, 2020 @ 9:01 am

  2607. Hope everyone is well, be safe

    Comment by RICHARD DUARTE — June 12, 2020 @ 10:04 am

  2608. Gary,
    Where are you located in Rheinland Pfalz? I spent time there in various locations.

    In the early 1960s I lived in Idar-Oberstein while working on top of Erbeskopf [highest point between Frankfurt and Paris]. My wife, an American, and I were married at Strassburg Kaserne [US Army base] in Idar-Oberstein with a short honeymoon in Trier. We had Status of Forces. We could shop at the PX in Kaiserslautern and access to everything on US bases, except housing.

    The USA was paying for and installing an air defense system for West Germany. The temporary site [plus permanent radar station] was on Erbeskopf while a command center was being build underground elsewhere.

    Later I lived in Wiesbaden which is just outside the boundary of Rheinland Pfafz.

    In the early 1990s, I returned. I drove to the top of Erbeskopf, despite the no entry sign, and made a quick turnaround. The radar station with the guard on the gate looked the same as 30 years earlier. Luckily, I remembered the minor roads that led to the entrance of the air defense underground command center in the middle of nowhere. It’s Germany’s Cheyenne Mountain although not quite the “long dubbed America’s fortress [Cheyenne Mountain] is a bunker like no other”.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — June 12, 2020 @ 12:04 pm

  2609. I’m alive and well. Invisible USAINCA G2 Case Control 974 1963-1966. Served on SARD Mission to Germany late ’63 to Ramstein.

    Comment by Daniel Ritchie — June 12, 2020 @ 4:01 pm

  2610. Bernie,

    I’m located between Limburg/Lahn and Montabaur, just a few kilometers from the Hessen border. Wiesbaden is about 40 k’s and Frankfurt is 70.
    I was at the Joint Refugee Operations Center in Berlin as a 96C2L29, separated at Ft. Wadsworth NY (it was mandatory to separate in CONUS) and caught the next flight back to Berlin and was at JROC (B) as a civilian interrogator for the next several years.
    Do you ever get back to this part of Germany?
    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 12, 2020 @ 5:40 pm

  2611. Gary,
    We don’t travel anymore – too old. Fortunately, our son and grandsons are willing to visit us from the DC area.

    I worked in Germany for 18 months in 1962-3 and returned for a visit in 1992.

    My only travel desire would be to visit Yellowstone where I worked one summer as a park ranger at Old Faithful and to visit Port Huron, MI where I worked two summers as a bell hop in a summer resort hotel, not to mention family visits when duty calls.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — June 12, 2020 @ 6:23 pm

  2612. Bernie,

    I see from your post number 2598 that you live in Huntingdon Beach. I know it well as I’m originally from Riverside, CA…born at March AFB hospital.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 12, 2020 @ 6:39 pm

  2613. Ref#2596 Thanks Ed asking about how I am doing. The last couple of years have not been kind to me ref health reasons. A couple of strokes slow you down a little but I am still kicking . Still reading this web site, Wish we could have a reunion of some sort. Stay safe and stay healthy my friends and fellow Holabird vets.

    Comment by charles goffredo — June 13, 2020 @ 11:10 am

  2614. Ref#2607 Gary Fort Wadsworth in my native Staten Island NY. Cross over Verazzano Bridge coming from Bklyn and the Fort is to your right, You actually cross over part of it on the bridge. Homeland Security mostly there now, some Army reserve units etc.

    Comment by charles goffredo — June 13, 2020 @ 11:16 am

  2615. Charles (#2610),

    Maybe we could have it in Baltimore at Phil’s house. Seriously, distance and age might present a bit of a problem.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 13, 2020 @ 1:27 pm

  2616. Manny,

    I think that you are right about distance and age being a problem. As an idea, maybe we could do a meeting on Skype or Zoom. We should call for a volunteer to set it up. It can’t be me because my desktop did not come with a built-in camera and it is too old to buy a component for it (not a good investment).

    Seriously though, Charles, I am glad that you are still kicking, despite having two strokes. We young guys certainly have our health challenges with strokes, heart problems, and now the Coronaviris where about 80% of those who have perished in the U.S. are over 60 years of age.

    Stay safe and stay healthy!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 13, 2020 @ 3:22 pm

  2617. Ref. 2611
    Charles…That’s the location alright! As I recall, in 1970 Ft. Wadsworth was primarily used as a separation center for troops leaving active duty? I caught some flack there because my uniforms hadn’t been out of my duffel bag in almost 18 months, were terribly wrinkled and didn’t have my then current rank displayed. I had to sort that out in order to separate.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 13, 2020 @ 6:48 pm

  2618. Happy Fathers’s Day to all! On this day, remember and celebrate the lives of your fathers, some of whom may have fought in the World Wars and your sons who may also be fathers.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 21, 2020 @ 8:49 am

  2619. Happy Father’s Day to all. My dad was airborn in WWII, jumped into the Phillipines and finished in Occoupied Japan. Take care all.

    Comment by RICHARD DUARTE — June 21, 2020 @ 10:23 am

  2620. Checking in after a while and Happy Father’s day to all of us who are still around. Things here in central NJ are beginning to open up but my wife and I are still limiting our exposure to gatherings and public places with a lot of people.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — June 21, 2020 @ 10:50 am

  2621. Happy Fathers Day to all Holabird patriots. My Dad served with the 277th combat engineer bn; 11th armored div. in the Ardennes during WWII.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — June 21, 2020 @ 6:09 pm

  2622. Are we still here? Happy 4th to everyone out there Stay safe and stay healthy to all my fellow veterans and their families.

    Comment by charles goffredo — July 3, 2020 @ 5:55 pm

  2623. Holabird Brethern,

    As Charles has requested, please signify your presence by signifying: here, aye, or present.

    Thank you!

    Phil from Baltimore

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 3, 2020 @ 8:12 pm

  2624. Aware of Stan Solin, Don Bridges [recently in & out of hospital], and Rick Washburn in SoCal.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — July 3, 2020 @ 11:17 pm

  2625. YO ok Phil?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 4, 2020 @ 6:39 am

  2626. Happy 4th of July to you all.

    All the best,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 4, 2020 @ 7:53 am

  2627. Have a happy and safe 4th, take care everyone.

    Comment by RICHARD DUARTE — July 4, 2020 @ 9:49 am

  2628. Happy 4th of July!!!! All is well in Hawaii. Was with the 524th MID in Vietnam. Been in contact with some of them who on occasion read this blog–Clint Vanzant, John Ala, John Belloff and Ken H. who is the moderator for the 524 facebook group.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — July 4, 2020 @ 5:13 pm

  2629. Happy 4th of July! All is well here with me. I was with the 531st MI Co (Collection) in West Germany during the 60s before it was transferred to Ft Meade, MD. It was a very small unit with several five man teams. Anyone else here that was with the 531st?

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — July 4, 2020 @ 6:05 pm

  2630. Wishing all of you, a great 4th of July, from the mountains of NC. Charlie Brown

    Comment by Allen Brown — July 4, 2020 @ 6:14 pm

  2631. Happy 4th to all. Better days are coming.
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — July 4, 2020 @ 8:26 pm

  2632. Happy belated Independence Day to all who rout stepped across Colgate Creek bridge. God bless America!

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — July 5, 2020 @ 3:50 am

  2633. Guys,

    Yesterday, Bill Schulz sent me emails so I know that he is well. Thanks to all who responded. As Bill Leach said, ” Better days are coming.” Remember, that the 1918 – 1920 flu did eventually end and this one will too. We will get through this.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 5, 2020 @ 8:07 am

  2634. Ya shamed me into it, Phil.

    “Present” but not all here (never was and proud of it… still can’t see how INTC recruited me!) but deceptively lucid, healthy, and looking forward to our autumnal waterfall hiking in the beautiful mountains of Transylvania County, NC (Hi, Charlie. Promise to look you up next time… we got cancelled in May ’cause of this virus bit)

    So, “Present or accounted for, sir!” Yes, back in the early ’50s in the Va Tech Corps of Cadets it was “or” not “and.” If you stop to think about it, that’s the only way it makes sense. If “all” are present, everyone’s there. If someone has an authorized absence, that’s an “or.” However, AWOL is something else, no?

    Don’t mind me… I love splitting hairs… not that I have that many left to split!

    Comment by Bill Schulz — July 5, 2020 @ 7:39 pm

  2635. Bill,

    Thanks for keeping us straight.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 6, 2020 @ 8:20 am

  2636. Present !! A hundred plus fraternity students two blocks from my house in Seattle just tested positive for Covid -19. Have to get some BBs to keep them out of my yard!!

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — July 6, 2020 @ 7:18 pm

  2637. Hey Daryl- Is that to shoot ’em with or to spread on the ground?
    OK, back to my purpose for being back so soon-
    Greetings, spooks et al-
    Was reminiscing just now ’bout my INTC experiences and got to thinking about the cred pack. I realized that I have little remembrance of either B or C. Since my duty stations didn’t require carrying badges, they stayed in the safe and we were sent out with “tiles” only.
    That got me to thinking about the nickname which, I’ve been told, came from the originals ‘way back when having been made from porcelain. The intent was that if we got into a situation where they could have been compromised, they were to have been stomped or thrown forcefully onto a hard surface which rendered them smashed and, thus, no longer usable.
    Mine were some sort of thick but very brittle plastic for the purpose of destining them to the same end fate. I only recall that they were in two pieces without a photo, just the right thumb print. Also recall they were ever so slightly curved. Hmmm… Could that have been so they’d crack under foot? Fortunately, I never found out.
    Funny, I can still replicate the act of coolly pulling and flipping open the creds but have no real recollection of what I was showing. Oh, but I still have the clip which I used to secure them into shirt or jacket pocket! I think that came with them from Uncle Sugar, no?
    Do any of you guys have images of the tiles? I found a generic pic of the badge on the web but I’m curious about the other half of the pair.
    Stay safe, well and healthy, kids…

    Comment by Bill Schulz — July 7, 2020 @ 3:15 pm

  2638. Me again. My email is billschul_z@usa2net.net in case you have a pic to shoot my way.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — July 7, 2020 @ 3:19 pm

  2639. Alive and well in Honolulu. More positive Covid-19 results with a record 60 new cases yesterday. Waiting to see how Hurricane Douglas will affect the Hawaiian islands within the next couple of days.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — July 25, 2020 @ 3:27 pm

  2640. Wayne,
    Good luck with the Covid and the weather!

    Comment by bill leach — July 25, 2020 @ 9:09 pm

  2641. Wayne,

    I second Bill Leach’s best wishes to you re: both of the twin challenges.

    Also to Ben Burt and Dave Mitchell who both live in Texas, good luck concerning the impending hurricane Hanna!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 25, 2020 @ 10:25 pm

  2642. Good Luck Wayne, things are getting bad again in SoCal but just hunkering down for us. stay safe

    Comment by RICHARD DUARTE — July 26, 2020 @ 10:09 am

  2643. It seems to be the calm before the storm now. Douglas should pass a little to the north of Oahu. Heaviest predicted rains are about 5 hours away. Now it is just so humid you want it to start raining. I remember going through this while stationed on Okinawa. Based on the geographic location, it was typhoons and not hurricanes like we have in the US.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — July 26, 2020 @ 8:55 pm

  2644. Douglas passed Hawaii without any major landfall on any island. Final all clear was given at 2 a.m. as Douglas went by northern island of Kauai. Hope all is well with the rest of the Holabird ohana (family).

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — July 27, 2020 @ 3:03 pm

  2645. Fellow Holabirdians:
    Did anyone remember an instructor named Capt. Christopher Pyle
    at Holabird? Reading a book where he is mentioned. It seems he was there in the 60’s well after my time.
    Thanks,
    Manny
    p.s. Glad all accounted for and not on sick call.

    Comment by manny adler — July 27, 2020 @ 5:31 pm

  2646. Manny, I think I just missed him at Holabird but I caught up with him about 10 years ago and had a 3 month back and forth with him. I found a column he wrote (or was interviewed for) in the Irish Times. I pointed out a few of his lies and he got all defensive. He said how he was part of the Church hearings, like that made all he said was true.
    He comes off as though he hated the army and the USA. He is a typical liberal professor. I can’t understand how he could have been an instructor for USAINTS.

    Comment by bill leach — July 27, 2020 @ 9:11 pm

  2647. Bill,

    Thanks. Makes sense now. Wonder how he made it through BI screening? The book is THE BURGLARY by Betty Medsger.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 28, 2020 @ 5:32 am

  2648. Wayne, Glad all is well and now back to the new “normal”.

    Comment by RICHARD DUARTE — July 28, 2020 @ 10:09 am

  2649. re #2646 & 2647

    Since when should a person’s political leaning have anything to do with whether or not they pass a BI investigation? Perhaps, like many loyal veterans and citizens of the US, he realized during or after his time of service, just how F***ed Up our government was for being in Viet Nam in the first place and using it as an excuse to spy and keep files on civilians exercising their right to protest. Maybe that is how we got to where we are today. FUBAR!!!

    Comment by jack widmaier — July 28, 2020 @ 7:09 pm

  2650. Ref #2649
    That comment was not necessary on this site!

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — July 29, 2020 @ 3:34 am

  2651. Jack,
    First a clarification. My position has always been to keep this site none political as we have enough division in our country already (see former posts). My purpose was scholarly not political. My comment to Bill was tongue-in-cheek. No harm intended. I love all you guys and gals (added gals so none of you agents and others in MI will get the wrong idea and lift my TS clearance or think I’m a groper (too old, but better than being remember as an old s**t). Keep it light!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 29, 2020 @ 5:49 am

  2652. Ref. #2649
    No desire to get political on this fine site either, but political leanings/affiliations were certainly a part of the BI in the late 60’s at least.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 29, 2020 @ 6:14 am

  2653. Guys,

    I agree that politics has no place on this site. Several years ago, we had a political spat between two contributors and all it led to was bad feelings on both sides. Let’s keep it light as Jim Flynn originally intended it to be. We are all MI brothers with Fort Holabird being the common denominator.

    Best always,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 29, 2020 @ 8:04 am

  2654. I wasn’t trying to be political, just trying to explain to Manny who he was reading about.
    As for the subjects political leanings, it was very important info for a BI back in the 60s. The DD Form 398 (Statement of Personnel History) had as the last question, note all of the organization listed that you have been associated with. It went on to list about 20 groups such as John Birch, Communist Party, Fascist, etc. Listing one of them would almost surely be grounds for denial of security clearance.
    I don’t remember when they ended that part of the form but it isn’t shown when you do a computer search. I only have a copy of my original and they didn’t include that section when they copied it.

    Comment by bill leach — July 29, 2020 @ 8:41 pm

  2655. I, as well, was not being political in my comment. Self reflection on the Intelligence Community should be viewed as a good thing. I was, however, pointing out that having views that are liberal or conservative should not affect a BI investigation. However, I am sure it was over used by some individuals and common in the 60s, as Gary pointed out. To fail a BI can have consequences that affect an individuals future. Liberal or conservative leanings are not an indication of someone’s loyalty to this country. That is not the same as being a member of a communist, fascist, John Birch, etc party advocating the overthrow of our government. Within certain segments, the intelligence community can get very “dark” and border on legal and illegal. At times, a necessity and at times over used and un-necessarily used. By law, the US Army cannot be used against US citizens. However, in the late 60s, the Army Intelligence branch was being used to collect and keep files on protesters against the war. Where these files are now, or how they were used in later years, I have no idea. The army shouldn’t have collected them in the first place. One other thing, my final comment about where this country is today, was also not political. The government and its people did not get this way in the last four years, or the previous eight years. It has been sliding down hill for longer than any of us have been alive. Democracy, as practiced in this and a few other countries, is a very difficult process and never more than borders on success or failure. By the way, no hard feelings toward bill or manny (none of us use capital letters), Edward or anyone who dissagreed with my comment.

    Comment by jack widmaier — July 30, 2020 @ 10:09 am

  2656. No hard feelings Jack.
    One thing I just realized, technically,(almost) all of the NACs and BIs
    conducted for the army were conducted on civilians until they were sworn in to the service. My own BI was completed before I enlisted. It was initiated and carried out by the army while I was still a civilian.

    Also, I described Christopher Pyel as a liberal professor because that is how he describes himself.

    Comment by bill leach — July 30, 2020 @ 11:00 am

  2657. Bill,

    Back in the 50’s most of us were BI’d(?) after being selected for MOS’s requiring TS’s (usually , if not always, after basing training or transfers to bases (i.e., Holabird, Devens, Ritchie,etc.). This was the height of Korea and the cold war. I guess the 60′ and early 70’s were far different due to far more controversial war. I starting to “get it”. Keep educating us old timers. Thanks and keep posting.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 30, 2020 @ 1:40 pm

  2658. Regarding BIs see my post #848. I think Bill must have let me slip through!!!!

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — July 31, 2020 @ 7:33 pm

  2659. Daryl, you must have processed in on a Monday morning and I was still in my weekend fog. 😉

    Comment by bill leach — July 31, 2020 @ 9:03 pm

  2660. Bill S., A. Brown, Jack W., Jim W., Charles G., Bill L., Ed H.,

    Care to update the hurricane status as it passes up the east coast. For the central Maryland area, they are predicting 3- 6 inches of rain with winds of 15 – 30 mph. Landfall is expected here overnight tonight. Fortunately, our home is on high ground.

    Thanks,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 3, 2020 @ 12:17 pm

  2661. Hope you guys on the East Coast get the same luck we had in Hawaii with the hurricane staying just far enough over the ocean to not cause any damage. Hurricane Douglas came as close as 30 miles off a portion of Oahu so the outer bands of wind and rain just missed.

    A comment on the “spying” done by the US Army during the Vietnam War. I joined a civil affairs unit in 1972 a few months after receiving my final discharge from my initial 6 year enlistment. I was the intel sergeant for the unit. One of my responsibilities was to review all the unit files to ensure that there were no reports of civilian anti-war activities being reported by our unit. I did this for at least 2-3 years having to make a negative report each year.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — August 3, 2020 @ 4:18 pm

  2662. All’s good here in the center of Central Florida. “She” passed well off the coast. Look out, Carolinas and New England!
    As for the politics thing… Anyone remember doing a BI interview and asking if the subject had any “political proclivities”?
    Just sayin’

    Comment by Bill Schulz — August 3, 2020 @ 4:33 pm

  2663. I have a question for the counter intelligence guys who conducted BIs. Who made the decision as how high of a classification (confidential, secret, top secret, etc.) an individual received. Also, how long did a TS clearance last? Was it invalid as soon as an individual left the Army? If a new civilian job required a TS clearance, was the entire process done again by another agency? Just curious as to how this worked. Never thought of it before. Is there a file someplace that lists anyone who ever held a TS clearance? Maybe no one out there knows. Just asking.

    The FBI just completed a TS BI investigation of my son. It took 13 months! If it took that long when I joined the Army, I would have been an 11 Bravo in Nam with 6 months in country by the time it came through.

    Comment by jack widmaier — August 3, 2020 @ 8:28 pm

  2664. Jack,

    Great questions. Anyone know?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 4, 2020 @ 5:22 am

  2665. East Coast Storm Buddies,

    We are hold up in central Maryland. Isaias is right over us. It is so large it covers beyond my state and is also in northern Virginia, Delaware, and southern Pennsylvania. We are still expecting betwen 3 to 6 inches of rain with sustained winds of 33 mph.. We have a tornado watch in effect until noon today. Flash flood watches and warnings are now in effect.

    Be safe,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 4, 2020 @ 9:00 am

  2666. Hello, hope all is well, weather is nuts, should be in the 70’s for us today. BUT, we had a 6.2 shaker the other day that was felt all over the area from San Diego to Santa Barbara. Politics, some things don’t change, I was on Okinawa in April 1968 when MLK was shot. They had Walt Gainey and me, the only black and latino agents in our unit to monitor the “ethnic” bars in Koza, just in case. Funny how you don’t forget some things.

    Comment by RICHARD DUARTE, hope a — August 4, 2020 @ 10:05 am

  2667. Hello, hope all is well, weather is nuts, should be in the 70’s for us today. BUT, we had a 6.2 shaker the other day that was felt all over the area from San Diego to Santa Barbara. Politics, some things don’t change, I was on Okinawa in April 1968 when MLK was shot. They had Walt Gainey and me, the only black and latino agents in our unit to monitor the “ethnic” bars in Koza, just in case. Funny how you don’t forget some things.

    Comment by RICHARD DUARTE — August 4, 2020 @ 10:07 am

  2668. Guys,

    Sending Isiais north. We dodged a bullet in central MD. No deaths and minimal damage, mostly on our eastern shore. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge, connecting the eastern and western shores, was closed for a short time this morning due to high winds.

    Good luck to our neighbor’s!

    Phil O.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 4, 2020 @ 12:53 pm

  2669. Happy to hear that the guys in the southern part of the Atlantic Coast survived the latest hurricane.

    I remember in Okinawa after a B-52 crashed at the end of runway while taking off for a Vietnam bombing mission. Many protests were held following that incident. There was a big rumor that Stokely Carmichael was on Okinawa to join in the protests, but Walt Gainey, the sole black agent with the 526, squashed the rumors with his reports that Carmichael was not there.

    I remember filling out those DD 398 for the background checks we all needed. It was the 6 page form that you needed to submit five copies. Those were the days that you needed to use carbon paper to get the additional copies so any mistake was almost fatal. Did not want to be a clerk-typist. In the 1990s the 398 was still used, but you could submit it online. The program was checks on it so that it would catch any mistakes of “breaks” in time so you could have a continuity in any portion that required a time sequence. Have no specific recall as to how long clearances were good, but 10 years seems to stick in my mind. Getting a TS clearance was always a bear. Getting a SECRET was actually quite easy as all it required was a NAC that was supposedly something that was done on every person entering the US military.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — August 4, 2020 @ 3:57 pm

  2670. Sending Isiais on it’s way to eventual Canada land. We had a lot of wind but little rain. Many downed trees. We made it through fine even though our home is surrounded with many trees. Prayer works! I hope our alumni to the north are spared also. Later.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — August 4, 2020 @ 6:44 pm

  2671. Ref. 2668. Forgot to mention I’m from Waterbury,Connecticut.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — August 4, 2020 @ 6:51 pm

  2672. Thanks to all of you who responded to the topic concerning tropical storm/hurricane Isaias. It resulted in heavy rain, damaging winds, and tornadoes ending in several deaths along the east coast. It was the 9th named storm of the Atlantic season and left millions without power. Hopefully, it did not affect any of our contributors or their families or friends.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 5, 2020 @ 10:16 am

  2673. A lot of small branches down but no real damage to my house. A ton of power outages in my town (southwest of Boston) but I was lucky, no outage.
    It sounds like the Parkway contributors fared well overall.

    Comment by bill leach — August 5, 2020 @ 11:09 am

  2674. Bill,

    Based on the feedback we received, I agree. I am glad you also faired well during the storm. As I said before, I think that we dodged a bullet.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 5, 2020 @ 2:09 pm

  2675. Good afternoon,

    Just checking in. I’ll be 71 on October 1st and except for some darling knees, compliments of a training accident, I am OK. I am a safety educator by trade and still working. I have been involved with helping to plan for the reopening of schools in Massachusetts. Lots of really qualified and dedicated people on this task. But one things I noticed, the new crop of Education PhD’s are strong on theory and short on application. Recently one was waxing on about his degree. I told him I would put the 30 months I spent in MI up against any PhD Program in the world. I told him not only was their actual training first class, but the after graduation assignments were even more instructive. It wasn’t just all we had to read, but the “old timers” who were there to instruct and guide us. They taught an 18 year old: Communications, Data Processing, Statistics, Data Analysis and most importantly how to roll all of that into an operational report that someone could actually use to get something done. They seemed skeptical of the experience. But you all know what you learned, and what you did and how all of it made you a better person and more capable of being successful in life. Sorry for blowing off steam (and no offense to any professors on this site) but we are in a real emergency, that requires all of our attention, and they are rearranging the deck chairs.

    Anyway, enough steam. I hope that you and yours are all well. Keep the faith. We are the greatest nation on earth and we will recover from all of this and be even better.

    Dave

    Comment by David Edmonds — August 8, 2020 @ 12:42 pm

  2676. I’ve noticed we run in batches. Since Cleveland ducked the storm nothing to report. Presidential debate coming so we may be getting a very different kind of storm.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 11, 2020 @ 3:51 pm

  2677. Hi Manny,

    Do you agree with me that we should stay away from that storm on this site?
    Maybe, that can be an offline topic. What do you or does anyone else out there think?

    Cleveland Rocks!

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 11, 2020 @ 5:54 pm

  2678. Phil,

    Snow, Phil, snow?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 12, 2020 @ 5:26 am

  2679. Manny,

    Please enlighten those of us who live out there in the puckerbush as to what you meant in posting 2677.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 12, 2020 @ 9:50 am

  2680. re #2676:
    I agree completely about keeping it off this site. Why should people discuss something when no one is listening to the others? Its not like there is anything worth discussing anyway!

    Comment by jack widmaier — August 12, 2020 @ 10:11 am

  2681. Phil first,

    We are blessed with snow storms here along Lake Erie. Just wanted to sympathize with those hit by tropical storms,etc.

    Jack, I agree totally, if you means politics,and said this way back when (please see earlier “Manny” postings)). Am glad to to see that you guys are keep me from my geriatric dementia FUBARS.

    p.s Phil: Where exactly ia the puckerbush? Baltimore certaintly isn’t?

    Comment by Manny Adler — August 12, 2020 @ 2:16 pm

  2682. Manny,

    Bill Schulz (not spelled with a “t”) has often cited the word “puckerbush” in his musings on this site. He seems to be referring to an area that is mostly composed of scrub brush, formerly used in farming, left neglected, which became an space for invasive species ocassionally littered with stickers and snakes. This is from the urban dictionary and can also be found as New Hampshire slang usage or slanguage. It is not to be confused with the plant called puckerbush or puckerbush which is defined as a small green evergreen tree of the southeastern U.S.

    Comment by .Phil Ostrander — August 12, 2020 @ 3:36 pm

  2683. Oops! On the last line in 2682. I meant to say, “puckerbush or puckerbrush.”

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 12, 2020 @ 9:58 pm

  2684. Ref. 2675
    Very good commentary, thanks Dave.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — August 15, 2020 @ 9:49 pm

  2685. Folks,
    16 years,6 months and 9 days since my first post and still waiting for some
    one I served with. Seems time may be running out. Never thought I’d become addicted but thanks to all my new found friends I have become hooked. I really enjoy all your experiences, sense of humor and intelligence.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 21, 2020 @ 5:34 am

  2686. Manny.

    I agree that it is frustrating to not see people that you have served with while in MI. However, the silver lining has always been the new friends that we have made along the way. Since 2013, when I first discovered this site, I have exchanged email addresses with many and had phone conversations wth several Fort Holabird brethern. Still, we continue to do the search.

    Toujours avant (Always forward)

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 21, 2020 @ 8:42 am

  2687. Manny
    I haven’t found any old MI friends on this site either, but as You and Phil mentioned, connected with a lot of old Holabird grads and heard about their experiences and memories of our Bird.
    I did find some old Joint Refugee Operations Center (JROC) MI buddies by going to the 18th MI Bn site on Facebook. Have you tried anything like that?

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — August 21, 2020 @ 10:07 am

  2688. Gary,

    Since I was permanent party, not a trainee, came to Holabird pre-trained, in a somewhat different status than many of the folks on this site (and certainly older,i.e. circa 50,s)chances are somewhat diminished of finding someone here.
    Thanks Gary,Phil,et.al.

    Comment by manny adler — August 21, 2020 @ 12:51 pm

  2689. Manny,

    I have the approximate ages on half the guys (7) who are regular contributors to this site. We range in age from 72 to 85. Most of the guys are on the younger side of that range. Just when I think that Gary (belated Happy Birthday!), Allen, and I are the younger side along comes Dave Edmonds who will not turn 71 until October. Once upon a time, we did have two guys in their nineties but they have not contributed in the past few years.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 21, 2020 @ 3:06 pm

  2690. Thanks for the birthday wishes Phil!

    Manny….as you were permanent party when you arrived at the Bird, I was thinking you could investigate whether or not your units before Baltimore might have sites?

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — August 23, 2020 @ 11:24 am

  2691. Gary,
    Thanks. Great idea! Was specialized, that the Army called “on the job” cut-out training. An “Army of one” as the recruiting ads later had it. Why TS I only understood when I got to Holabird and only then after two or so weeks in casual company.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 24, 2020 @ 5:37 am

  2692. Answer to #2663. I was a 97B CI Agent (“Spook”) as opposed to a “super spook.” After CI School at the ‘Bird, assgn to 111th INTC HQ at Ft. McPherson, Atlanta, GA from Feb 1965 to April 1965 working as an analyst. April 1965 – TDY back to the ‘Bird for three mos. to train civilian hirees as Analysts. Jun ’65 back to Ft. Mac as an Analyst. Worked as an Analyst until Feb 1966 when reassigned to Chattanooga, TN Resident Office as an CI Agent.
    Answer to Question #2663: All security requests were initiated by the solder’s or DAC’s command authority. A confidential clearance only required a LAC (Local Agency Check) – check of criminal records with provost marshal and local police department. Secret clearance required a LAC and a NAC (National Agency Check) – inc. FBI, INS, CIA, Secret Service. A top secret clearance required a LAC, a NAC, and a BI (a background investigation) which involved field work such as birth certificate records, school records, employment records and “personal reference” and “developed reference” interviews. The completed investigation was forwarded to the originating command authority with a recommendation. The command authority would then decide if the clearance should be granted. I only know of one case where the INTC recommendation was not followed – Raymond Burr before he visited the troops in ‘Nam. INTC recommended not to grant a clearance but command authority decided to grant the clearance.
    I had many interesting assignments – penetrating Nike sites, attending KKK meetings, participating in the Selma to Montgomery march, etc.
    Not many of left these days.

    Comment by John Reed — August 27, 2020 @ 11:34 pm

  2693. Oops-typo: meant to say “Not many of us left these days.”

    Comment by John Reed — August 27, 2020 @ 11:47 pm

  2694. Yesterday was the 50th anniversary of my leaving military service. I was at HQ, 108th MI Group. I thought how it was the classiest group of people I ever worked with. They taught me so much. They gave me a career. And imagine, when I ended my three years, I was only 20 year old. God Bless America for everything given to me!

    Comment by Dave Edmonds — August 29, 2020 @ 9:33 am

  2695. Fascinating reading some of this site. I was NOT ever at Fort Holabird, but at least one of you lived in the villa at Sven-Hedin-Strasse 11 while I did (1970-71). I was an OJT 96B for G-2.

    I’ve been working on a history of the place and it’s in the Stories section of my website. I have most of the 1915-1945 history posted and some sample pieces of the 1945 – 200? also posted. Your suggestions or comments are appreciated.

    http://www.berlin1969.com

    Comment by R. W. Rynerson — August 30, 2020 @ 1:02 am

  2696. Just catching up on my keeping-abreast esponsibilities.
    In 2663, Jack Widmaier asked about how the “height” of a subject’s clearance is determined.
    From my recollection, it’s adjusted to one notch higher than that which the subject would be required to have within his/her duties.
    My initial was TS and when I was attached to ASA it was hiked up to TS/CRYPTO w/o an additional BI.
    Of course, exposure to classified material was on a need-to-know basis.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — August 30, 2020 @ 8:39 pm

  2697. Greetings from Maryland. I am not a past member of the military, but I have many family members who were. One of these lived just outside the back gate on Pine Avenue in 1945. His wife, I believe, was a part of the civilian staff at Fort Holabird sometime from 1945 until at least 1959. Perhaps you may have met her. Her name was Mary Hevey. She may also have been known as Mary Campbell or Mary Troy. She was listed in a 1959 Balto Directory as being a supervisor at the Fort, but I know she was discharged from the WACs in 1946, so I am assuming she was civilian staff. I have some knowledge of where she went after she left the Fort, however, she has unfortunately passed, so I can gather no more information directly from the source. I appreciate and respect all of your services to this country and wish many more would share your dedication to serving the people of the USA. Any information you can provide will be greatly appreciated. I have searched many resources and I have come up empty. I would not normally intrude into such a sacred place to ask such questions, but I have really come up empty. So….

    Comment by Jeffrey Wentz — September 1, 2020 @ 12:55 pm

  2698. Thanks to Bill and John for your input. I wrote a long response about my time in the ROK in Army Intelligence, but as usual, it was blocked and forwarded to somewhere in the universe. I think that will be my last attempt to tell about my life as a 97C40.

    Comment by jack widmaier — September 1, 2020 @ 8:49 pm

  2699. Jack,

    I notified Craig Sprout a few minutes ago. He is our troubleshooter for this site. If anyone has problems with their information not being posted, they should contact Craig. Please do not contact him tonight as I have already done so. When needing his services, please email him at Csprout@gmail.com

    Thanks,

    Phil Ostrander

    Jeffrey Wentz,

    Welcome to this site! I also live in Baltimore and I am a veteran who served at Ft. Holabird. I did not know Ms. Mary Hevey, however, if you would like to chat, please send me an email at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 1, 2020 @ 10:44 pm

  2700. Jack,

    As a follow-up to your posting from yesterday, I am sending you this information. Unfortunately, Craig Sprout was unable to find a recent long post from you in the queue. He said that it looks like it might have been one of those times that a glitch just made it disappear.

    Interestingly, my post on this site from last night, #2699, also did not appear at first, however, when I asked about it in an email to Craig, he found it and posted it. Sometimes, I have found that you have to be persistent when posting on this site. I have had problems with it in the past, however, Craig has usually been able to find my postings.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 2, 2020 @ 10:25 pm

  2701. RE Comment by John Reed #2692.

    I didn’t know that we had “Analysts” assigned to Intelligence Corps units (CI and Collection). I’m surprised that they would use a trained CI Agent to do whatever Analysts do. If it’s okay (not classified), would you please let me (Us) know what work you did in a CI unit?

    I had several friends that were taking the Analyst Course at the Bird in 1965 when I was there but I never asked them what they were being trained for.

    I was assigned to a collection unit (Area Studies) and we did not have any Analysts assigned to us. Our operational personnel were only 9668s, 97Cs & 97Ds.

    Thanks, Tony

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — September 4, 2020 @ 2:58 pm

  2702. This is the Gwamp…Good to revisit after 10 years glad the site continues..
    I would love to hear from any of my 96B Vietnam brothers from the 191st MI detachment 1st Air Cav Phuoc Vinh 1969
    I am in touch with Greg McNally and John Powley hey…
    richmond@twinleather.com

    Comment by Richmond Castano — September 4, 2020 @ 11:24 pm

  2703. Just a point about tasks/responsibilities, etc. In the late 60’s the domestic sites were so short handed that they had a lot of people stepping outside of their MOS and grade responsibility (as long as they had the right clearance) to help out. It was always billed as training (they taught me communications, data processing, statistics, data analysis and report writing); it was a way operationally to get work done. No one complained about the extra work, like in some of my later jobs, because they were mission oriented.

    Comment by Dave Edmonds — September 5, 2020 @ 3:09 pm

  2704. Re: 2703

    As an addendum to what Dave listed, other military intelligence experience transferable skills acquired besides mission orientation were/are: discipline, pride, maturity, confidence, leadership, responsibility, professionalism, flexibility, results orientation, time management, and valuable resource management.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 5, 2020 @ 6:03 pm

  2705. Ref. 2695 comments by R.W. Rynerson

    I resided at the Sven-Hedin-Str. villa from early 69 to mid 70 and was a 96C2L29 next door at JROC.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — September 7, 2020 @ 11:44 am

  2706. Dave #2701. There were several types of MOS’s; Primary (P), Secondary (S), and Duty (D) which was essentially OJT. When I graduated from the ‘Bird in Feb. ’65, my PMOS was 97B, Counterintelligence Agent, and my SMOS was 96B, Intelligence Analyst. I was assigned to 111th INTC HQ at Ft. McPherson in Atlanta. Stayed in Uniform and barracks while working an an Analyst. Daily duties were clerical in nature – assigning field work to Agents for BI requests, collecting Agents’ reports, preparing summary report and recommendations. Never left the desk. Special duty involved covering the after-hours desk that was manned 24/7. At this desk, we received calls from the public (it was a listed telephone #). Got reports of UFO sightings, threats against public officials, etc. All we did was get the basic info and then forward it to the the proper channel. Example – UFO sightings were reported to USAF at Wright-Patterson AFB (Operation Blue Book?). Once we relayed the information, our job was done. Soo – Analyst work was booring, booring, booring.
    97B work was more interesting which I will describe later.
    /s/ John Reed

    Comment by John Reed — September 15, 2020 @ 6:13 pm

  2707. Explanation of MOS’s
    Example of PMOS = 97B3PIO
    “P” = Primary (often omitted if MOS is primary, but always used for Secondary (S) and Duty (D) MOS’s
    “97B” = Counterintelligence Agent
    “3” = Skill level #1 to #5 – Able to perform difficult duties, first line supervisor on #1 and #2. Frequently equated to rank.
    “P” = Skill qualification, “P” = parachutist
    “I” = Additional skill qualification, “I” – interpreter.
    “O” = Last digit is letter O, not a zero. Nothing else follows
    When I was promoted to Cpl, my PMOS changed from P97B3O to P97B4O. Merely coincidental that the “4” in the MOS was the same as an “E-4” for Cpl.

    It was just too confusing for enlisted soldiers to understand – just do your job, whatever it was!

    /s/ John Reed

    Comment by John Reed — September 15, 2020 @ 7:25 pm

  2708. My MOS was that of a 97D but while assigned to Frankfurt Station, not only did I perform 97D duties but I also got tasked to be Duty Agent at times which required that I be armed with a loaded .38 special Colt Detective Special revolver. I also assisted during surveillances.

    After I was assigned to Field Teams, along with my 97D duties, I also assisted with counter surveillances for our Agent Handlers and lived in one of our safe houses.

    I had a Spanish language addition to my MOS but it didn’t do me much good when I was stationed in Germany. Ah, the good old Army.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — September 15, 2020 @ 11:10 pm

  2709. Tony,
    Upon graduation from the ‘Bird, we had the option to apply for language school at the Persidio in Monterey and even select your preferred language. Several issues – your enlistment could be extended for the time you were enrolled in language school, and the language was “depending upon the needs of the Army.” I wanted German, but my timing was bad and I had no desire to learn Vietnamese (the current need of the Army). My alternative – request assignment to Germany where I could learn German from some fraulein. Instead, I was assigned to Georgia where I could learn to speak “Southern” from a southern belle. Worked out for the best – learned to speak “Southern” and married a southern belle.
    Hey Guys & Gals – this is fun recalling all of these memories (so long as I have the ability to do so.)

    Comment by John Reed — September 16, 2020 @ 9:42 am

  2710. PS – There was no MOS skill qualifier for speaking a foreign language like “Southern.”
    HA, HA, HA.

    Comment by John Reed — September 16, 2020 @ 9:46 am

  2711. Re: 2710

    I had an interesting experience when I was assigned to Fort Bragg. My buddy was from Chesapeake, VA which is near Norfolk. One time, we drove to his parents’ home to spend the weekend. He had a girlfriend and she attempted to fix me up so we could go on a double date. The arrangements went along fine until she was told that I was a Roman Catholic. That killed the double date idea. This is the only time that I know of that I faced discrimination because of my religion. I believe this gal was either a Southern Baptist or a Southern Methodist. Maybe, I should have told her that my father was a Methodist and my mother was a Catholic. Oh well. Say la vie.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 16, 2020 @ 10:54 am

  2712. The southern belle to whom I referred was a blind date. It took some convincing because I was a Yankee and southern belles were reluctant to date Yankees.
    At the ‘Bird were trained in interrogation techniques, and on one FTX, I was subjected to “enhanced interrogation” by some SF sergeants going through the interrogators course (jammed into a wall locker that was beaten with clubs – couldn’t hear anything until the next day).
    So, getting back to my blind date with this southern belle…I was escorted into the parlor to meet her mother and father. Afterwards, I was convinced that those SF interrogator trainees could have taken lessons from the mother of that southern belle. Before I could answer the first question, she was already on me with the second question…etc.

    Comment by John Reed — September 16, 2020 @ 4:19 pm

  2713. John Reed, I enjoyed reading your comments. Thanks for sharing. All of the men assigned to our Field Teams all spoke German and one other language such as, Czech; Polish;, Italian;and others. As a 97D, I did not get sent to language school. A couple of the guys in my team were sent to Oberammergau where they had a shortened (I believe) German language course before being assigned to our team.

    I attended a short conversational German language course at a nearby base which helped me a great deal. Plus the guys in my team all spoke German a lot of the time. And the best part, I met a beautiful German girl who spoke perfect English. I also became a member of the German – American Jr Club. It was necessary to at least speak some German because I lived in an apartment off base and ate at German restaurants and shopped at local, small markets.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — September 16, 2020 @ 5:49 pm

  2714. Tony M…in 1965 were you working out of the Frankfurt field office across from the consulate, the Farben Building or else where. Just curious about what team. I was there in 69.

    Comment by R. Fowler — September 17, 2020 @ 11:06 am

  2715. We appear to have a “German” thread going, so here’s my two bits. I was a 96C2L29 ( German language Interrogator ), but didn’t go to DLI for my language….I learned it in high school when my Dad was stationed in France with SHAPE HQ…..I thought my Dad had lost it when he told me I would learn French and German in school! Some years later, in Basic Training at Ft. Ord, I took a German proficiency test, passed it, and was eventually assigned to Ft. Holabird. The best move I ever made and always thanked my father for his foresight.

    Comment by Gary Miller — September 18, 2020 @ 4:29 pm

  2716. Just a quick comment “alle”. No one ever asked during my three olive drab years but I spoke German as my first language (fluently), Long story. Could have saved the army some bucks.
    Such is army logic. No complaints. Happy where I was.
    Manny (the name Manfred Adler should have been a big tip-off). p.s. A long story about my TS security clearance for some other time. Passed with flying colors but wasn’t a citizen until I went to vote in 1960. Was under the impression military service conferred automatic citizenship. When down with my parents 4 years after discharge and received papers through them. Was 3 when coming to the US so spoke German without an accent. Wonder why the CIC folks never picked-up on any of this as parents both spoke heavily accented English. Go figure. Guys like me ended up during WWII in units like the Ritchie boys, POW interrogators or Special CIC agents. Strange are the ways of the army.

    Comment by Manfred Adler — September 19, 2020 @ 5:15 pm

  2717. To continue this serial. Was bi-lingual. Native German speaker at home (age 3 when arriving in US thank the Lord). Long story about TS clearance. Will go into if anyone interested.
    Manny

    Comment by Manfred Adler — September 19, 2020 @ 5:19 pm

  2718. Continuing the German thread.
    At Holabird, we were queried if we knew foreign languages. The responses were “good, fair, or poor”. If good or fair, you were tested. If poor for an European language, no test, but you were still sent to Europe. We remaining dummies went to Korea.
    I worked [not Army] in Germany in 1962-3, but still learned little German because the Germans wanted to practice their English, so we would lapse into English. When I returned, one grandmother asked me in German if I attended church on Sunday. I answered her in English and she was impressed – thinking I understood German.
    One of our guys was asked if he wanted to learn German. He replied I know all the German I need to know which was “Ein beer bitte”. We asked what if he wanted to order a beer for his companion. He said I’ll say it twice.
    We enjoyed a local beer called Apostel Brau. The bottles were reusable with a permanent porcelain top [rubber washer]. Guys would dump their cigarette butts in the bottles. We wondered if the German brewery did more than turn the bottles upside down as they went down the assembly line and then refill them. We wanted to believe they at least performed a quick cold water rinse with the bottle upside down.
    Even growing up on an Iowa farm [in the middle of nowhere], WWI affected my grandparents in that my maternal grandfather changed his given name from Ludwig to Louis. Church baptism records were in German in these little Iowa villages until WWI. German was then no longer spoken even though there were local farming communities that were predominantly German descendants who could speak German [also Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian farm communities]. My four grandparents could speak German, but didn’t teach my parents, so I had no chance of learning it as a child.

    Comment by bernard j thielen — September 20, 2020 @ 8:44 pm

  2719. Continuing the German thread.
    At Holabird [1956], we were queried if we knew foreign languages. The responses were “good, fair, or poor”. If good or fair, you were tested. If poor for an European language, no test, but you were still sent to Europe. We remaining dummies went to Korea.
    I worked [not Army] in Germany [Idar-Oberstein and Wiesbaden] in 1962-63.
    We enjoyed a local beer called Apostel Brau. The bottles were reusable with a permanent porcelain top [rubber washer]. Guys would dump their cigarette butts in the empty bottles. We wondered if the German brewery did more than turn the bottles upside down as they went down the assembly line and then refilled them. We wanted to believe they at least performed a quick cold water rinse with the bottle upside down.
    Even growing up on an Iowa farm [in the middle of nowhere], WWI affected my grandparents. My maternal grandfather changed his given name from Ludwig to Louis. Church baptism records were in German in these little Iowa villages until WWI. German was then no longer spoken even though there were local farming communities that were predominantly German descendants who could speak German [also Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian farm communities]. My four grandparents could speak German, but didn’t teach my parents, so I had no chance of learning it as a child.
    These Iowa villages [100-300 population] were dominated by a church – the tallest building. I visited a small farming village in Germany. There was a painted list on the wall of local men [soldiers] who died in WWI and WWII in the vestibule of the only church in the village.

    Comment by bernard j thielen — September 21, 2020 @ 1:42 pm

  2720. To add to Gary’s ” German thread”. Was bi-lingual in German and English. Spoke German back then without an accent but I can’t remember if anyone asked me. I guess they preferred Army trained speakers. Strange are the army ways.
    Manny

    Comment by Manfred Adler — September 24, 2020 @ 4:03 pm

  2721. To continue Gary’s German thread: Was a native German speaker back them (a bit rusty now) without an accent. I cannot remember if any ever asked. Strange are army’s logic. Go figure?
    Manny

    was

    Comment by Manfred Adler — September 24, 2020 @ 4:08 pm

  2722. Having trouble leaving a post. Having I been banned?
    Manny

    Comment by Manfred Adler — September 24, 2020 @ 4:09 pm

  2723. I guess I am back on. Was fluent in German (bilingual), no accent. I guess no one asked me or the army preferred to teach army German. Did carry a TS clearance so it wasn’t that.
    Manny

    Comment by Manfred Adler — September 24, 2020 @ 4:14 pm

  2724. Still kicking here in “God’s waiting room,” Florida, USA. Eighty-five and counting.
    Just thought, for a change of pace, I’d drop some names of those with whom I worked while a S/A at the 108th Buffalo FO: clerk-typist Lindsay Delashumtt, S/As Herb Wills, Joe Goetz, Al Vallone , Bill Klein, and our first SAIC, Paul Siroky. His replacement was Roger Rankin.
    In Turkey we had agents Ed Register and Phil Clark, our desk-jockey who later went back to the ‘Bird to get his “tiles.” The SAIC was Stan Winarski who was notified just before I got there of his field commission (2LT) while on a Turkish steamer on the Black Sea! In his 33 years he went from E-1 to E-6 and then from O-1 to O-6 from where he retired. Quite a ride. Sadly, he died within a couple of years of getting to his well-earned retirement.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — September 25, 2020 @ 8:40 pm

  2725. Ref. Comment # 2715
    Bill, thanks for sharing your colleague and assignment information above. Always interesting to hear where people went after Ft. Holabird.
    We’re all in “God’s waiting room”….just make sure you keep a high waiting room number!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — October 2, 2020 @ 8:27 am

  2726. Hello,

    Roll Call – please sign-in by saying “””hello”” and indicating where you are currently residing and when you served or went to school at Fort Holabird.

    Thank you,

    Phil Ostrander
    Baltimore County, MD
    1968-1970

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 4, 2020 @ 6:18 pm

  2727. Hello
    Gary Miller
    Hessen, Germany
    96C2L29
    1968-1969 at Ft. Holabird

    Comment by Gary Miller — October 4, 2020 @ 6:38 pm

  2728. hello.
    Edward Hotchkiss
    Waterbury, Connecticut
    96b20
    1966-1967/ Ft.Holabird

    Comment by Edward W. Hotchkiss — October 4, 2020 @ 8:44 pm

  2729. Hello
    Tony Montemayor
    Rio Vista, California
    97D
    April 26, to Oct 1965 Ft Holabird, MD

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — October 4, 2020 @ 8:51 pm

  2730. Hello
    Bill Leach
    Medfield, Ma
    97D Aug 1965 to Jun 1968 Ft Holabird, Md

    Comment by bill leach — October 4, 2020 @ 9:01 pm

  2731. Still here more or less.
    Manny Adler
    Fort Holabird July 1955-October7,1955
    Permanent Party “Illustrator”

    Comment by Manfred Adler — October 5, 2020 @ 5:22 am

  2732. Still here.
    Manny Adler
    Fort Holabird
    Permanent Party 7/55-10/57
    “illustrator”

    Comment by Manfred Adler — October 5, 2020 @ 5:25 am

  2733. Guys,

    I am starting to receive word that some of you are having trouble with getting your postings displayed on this site. A few minutes ago, I emailed Craig Sprout. Because I am also in God’s waiting room, if there are future posting problems, I recommend that you contact him at csprout@gmail.com for assistance.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander
    97B40

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 5, 2020 @ 8:15 am

  2734. Bernie Thielen
    Huntington Beach, CA
    971.70
    1955-1957
    Korea

    Comment by bernard j thielen — October 5, 2020 @ 10:17 am

  2735. Hello all,

    George Masson, Kensington, MD.

    97B40H. At Holabird for class and then on faculty, March 68 until Dec. 1970

    Comment by George Masson — October 5, 2020 @ 10:24 am

  2736. Guys,

    Craig Sprout emailed me just over one-half hour ago. He said that that there were about 10 postings that were stuck in moderation and he set them free. You may have to read back to about #2705 or so to see all 10 of them. Most of them appear to belong to Manny (sorry Manny!). As I said to all in the past, don’t get discouraged and don’t give up on our website, just email Csprout@gmail.com and explain your problem. It is an old site and ocassionally has problems but it can always be fixed (kind of like a Ford flathead V8 engine).

    Toujours Avant!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 5, 2020 @ 2:51 pm

  2737. Thank you again Craig Sprout!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 5, 2020 @ 4:40 pm

  2738. Looks like out leader has never outgrown doing BIs. OK, here goes:

    SUBJECT: SCHULZ, William John, Jr. DOB: 17 July 1035. POB: Brooklyn, NY. Married HIEFTJE, Maureen, 3 September 1960. RESIDENCES: Hillsdale/Woodcliff Lake, NJ. Providence, RI; Arlington, VA; Baltimore, MD; Cheektowaga, NY Westfield, NJ; Ankara, Turkey; Harwinton, CT, West Cornwall, CT, Leesburg, FL
    EDUCATION: Woodcliff Lake School (1948), Park Ridge (NJ) High School (1952) VPI (Architecture) 1953-1953, (1957-1958) Rhode Island School of Design (Industrial Design) 1958-1961, BFA
    EMPLOYMENT: National Bureau of Casualty Underwriters, 1953-1957; U.S. Patent Office, 1961; US Army 1961-1964. Basic @ Ft. Jackson. Recruited for The ‘Bird. October 1961. DAME, DASE. Graduated- December 1961. 108th INTC Buffalo FO, TUSLOG Det. 27.

    Yeah, I know, TMI. Just demonstrating I’m still kickin’

    Comment by Bill Schulz — October 5, 2020 @ 6:11 pm

  2739. You may note that I didn’t list my MOS. Don’t remember it. Seems it was 971.xx or some shch.
    (Guess I’m still “kickin’.” just not firing’ on all synapses!)

    Comment by Bill Schulz — October 5, 2020 @ 6:21 pm

  2740. Hello to all.

    Living in Wayne, PA.
    Dec. 67 to Aug 70
    Holabird from Mar 68 to Nov 68 97C40
    Republic of Korea, 502nd MI Bn, assigned to NSA, Dec 68 to Aug 70

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 5, 2020 @ 8:49 pm

  2741. Greetings to all:
    Living in Oxnard, CA (about 75 miles from LA); Aug 1965: Ft. Polk, LA to Ft. Holabird from Dec 1965 to March 1966, 97B. Assigned to LAFO, 115th MI Gp, April 1966 to August 1967 526th MI Det, Okinawa

    Comment by Ricjard Duarte — October 6, 2020 @ 10:19 am

  2742. Still Here!!
    Seattle
    Holabird 1967-1968
    Company B, 502nd MI Bn Seoul
    14th or 15th (cannot remember) MI BN Fort Bragg
    Stay safe everyone.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — October 7, 2020 @ 12:40 am

  2743. Jan 66 to Apr 66 the Bird. May 66 to June 67 502MI Korea. Jul 67 to Sep 68 Kalamazoo, MI. Big good up by the army they stationed me 60 miles from my home and where I enlisted. Oct 68 to Mar 2000 Police Officer. Retired now living in Gods country Reserve, NM Married to my wonderful wife 54 years. 97B40

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — October 9, 2020 @ 2:57 pm

  2744. Hello from Lakewood, CO
    97B Jul-Nov 1968
    Instructor FTX Nov 68-Jun 70

    Comment by Denis Spelman — October 9, 2020 @ 5:49 pm

  2745. Hello: Try it again, enlisted Aug 15 1965, basic in hell, Ft Polk, LA and then Holabird, 97B, Dec 65 to March 68. Assigned to LAFO, 115th MI Gp, 20 min from home for a year. March 1967 to Aug 1968, 526th MI Det, Okinawa. Great time, great people.

    Comment by Ricjard Duarte — October 10, 2020 @ 10:18 am

  2746. Many thanks to Craig Sprout replied and fixed the problem in minutes! Take care.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — October 10, 2020 @ 12:24 pm

  2747. Hello from Sharpsville, PA
    P97B S/A, S97D Coordinator – Student Sept ’64 to Feb ’65.
    Cadre – Apr ’65 to Jun ’65 – training civiians to be coordinators. Newly hired due to consolidation of Provost Marshall and INTC records and everything being centralized at the ‘Bird. Job prerequisite was a HS diploma or GED.

    Comment by John Reed — October 10, 2020 @ 9:20 pm

  2748. John Reed,
    So far you are the closest “poster” near Cleveland (61.6 miles).
    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manfred Adler — October 11, 2020 @ 3:54 pm

  2749. Still here after many medical issues Holabird 7/65-9/65 502nd MI Korea 9/65-4/67, 115th MI Presidio San Fran 4/67-2/68 NYPD 10/68 till I retired Good to see some of the vets i served with still around, #2743 Jeff Terrell 502nd #2741 Richard Duarte 115th . Richard if you needed anything after normal busy hours you probably spoke to me or sent a TWX as I was the Group night time duty agent for all of the 115th,s field officers. A great assignment with some of the best people I have ever been associated with in my 74 years Stay healthy and stay safe my friends.

    Comment by charles goffredo — October 12, 2020 @ 10:49 am

  2750. Roll Call Results:

    Thank you for responding to October’s Roll Call. We had the best response since we began these 2020 Roll Calls with 16 of you letting us know that you are O.K. One thing that is significant is that 7 out of the total did tours in the ROK. Ironically, it appears that we were all there at different periods, as early as 1955 and as late as 1970 of those that listed their information at this time. Also, it is interesting to point out that 12 of us reside either on the east or west coast.

    There are a few regulars who have not yet checked-in. Please do so at your convenience as we care about your welfare.

    Thank you!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 14, 2020 @ 3:21 pm

  2751. Phil

    The problem with the intelligence community, is that there is almost no crossover. As a Company C ROK alumni, I was there for 20 months and could have someone sign on to this site and say he was there for the same time, but if he wasn’t in Company C, we probably would have never met. Even if he was in Co C, we may have never met. In fact, I knew people and partied with people (even invited them to our Field Station}, but never knew exactly what they did. You just didn’t ask.

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 14, 2020 @ 8:25 pm

  2752. You can make that 8 out of 16 that served in the ROK, Phil.
    Was there with the 502nd from Feb. to June 1968 before I went to Vietnam for a tour.
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — October 14, 2020 @ 8:38 pm

  2753. Jack (2751),
    This was true at Holabird. Had friends but never asked or new what they did and probably never will. “Need to know” was the SOP of MI I guess. Many holes left. Perhaps this is what fuels this site?
    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manfred Adler — October 15, 2020 @ 5:49 am

  2754. Jack and Manny,

    My point was that there were a number of us that did tours in Korea, however, for the most part, based on the October Roll Call sample, very few of us were there at the same time. I never addressed the issue of crossover. If I had, I would certainly agree with both of you because my experience also supports your point. As you can see, these are two different issues.

    Ed, thank you for the information on your service in the ROK.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 15, 2020 @ 8:14 am

  2755. Aloha from Hawaii! After completing basic training at Fort Ord, CA in early May 1966, I flew to Baltimore later in the month. I got there the same time as the 1966 Preakness Stakes. After a short stint in Casual Company where I had an assignment in the Holabird billeting office, I started 97B training with 66B-24. We graduated in early September and were awarded the 97B40 MOS for our efforts. Five of us, Paul Baune, Tom Erson, Dave Fredericks, Clint Van Zant and myself went to RVN and all ended up with the 524th MI, which was a part of 1st Log Command. We were in various fo’s with that unit. After a year, I was reassigned to the 526th MI Detachment in Okinawa where I became acquainted with Richard Duarte and my dad Charles who was a longtime CI agent from 1948. I was in the 526th from October 1967 to July 1969 when I was released from active duty at about the same time as when Armstrong was walking on the moon. I joined the USAR in September 1972 and was on drill status until September 1997 when I retired as a sergeant major with a total of 31 years active and reserve. In March 2006 I started receiving retirement compensation for my years of service. Still going strong in Hawaii at age 74.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — October 15, 2020 @ 2:51 pm

  2756. Memories of my time in Taejon, ROK, 1970 – 1971:

    * E-5 monthly base pay – $360 + rations – $77.10 + overseas pay, + clothing allowance
    * three piece suit – $38.00
    * black cashmere and wool 3/4 length overcoat – $30.00
    * handmade pair of black shoes – $10.00
    * largest observed snowfall in Taejon for winter of 1970-1971 – 3 inches
    * duty agent responsibilities – three times per month at Taejon F.O.
    * Memorial Day weekend at Hotel Kuk-dong in Pusan, ROK, 1971 – $10.00 per night

    More importantly, I observed warm friendly people especially those you would meet on an individual basis. I also liked the beautiful small green mountain scenary in the greater Taejon area.

    Phil Ostrander
    Taejon F.O., ROK

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 17, 2020 @ 7:59 am

  2757. Reporting in. Been in our newly finished cottage on Westport Island in Maine for most of September and October and sort of been off the grid .
    Still living in Hamilton Square NJ and wearing a mask when we go out.
    Jim Wiles 97C40 Class 68DE9

    Comment by jim Wiles — October 17, 2020 @ 10:16 am

  2758. Phil,
    Did you ever get to spend time at the Company B Tracey compound and the “Tracey Club” in Seoul?
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl — October 17, 2020 @ 3:58 pm

  2759. Phil, I don’t think this post went through the first time.
    Did you ever get to spend time at the 502nds Company B’s Tracey Compound and the “Tracey Club” in Seoul. Nothing like it in the entire US Army.
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — October 17, 2020 @ 4:17 pm

  2760. Daryl,

    I agree. No wonder why they called it the best kept secret in the Army. I will never forget my first Korean girlfriend whom I met there in September 1970, 50 years ago.

    I am still surprised that so many of us did tours in the ROK.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 17, 2020 @ 4:46 pm

  2761. Yes that is interesting. Also, I am not sure why the memories are so vivid of those times 50+ years ago…

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — October 17, 2020 @ 5:09 pm

  2762. Daryl,

    Aside from the abundance of young ladies, I also remember the Tracey Club having a band once a month plus “floor shows.” In addition, they had Bingo every Tuesday and Saturday. I was only stationed at Tracey Compound for about 3 months, September – December, 1970, until I transferred to Taejon F.O.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 18, 2020 @ 12:57 pm

  2763. While I was with the 502nd in ROK I went to a civilian club that had gambling especially slots. I think it was called the USOM Club. Does anybody remember that place?

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — October 18, 2020 @ 9:10 pm

  2764. Ed,

    I don’t, however, was it located in the Itaewon section in Seoul?

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 18, 2020 @ 9:22 pm

  2765. Phil, memory is a bit fleeting but I can recall it was a bit fancy, tie required and it was set on a higher part of town. The name of the area or town eludes me.

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — October 19, 2020 @ 12:04 am

  2766. per# 2761 , Phil the band and floor shows at the Tracey Club were amazing. The Korean talent was so good that at times it was hard to tell the difference between the musical group they were covering and the original American band or singers.

    per # 2762 Ed I do not remember the USOM Club but did you ever get pizza from “Ashi”s Italian Restaurant. The pizza was about 6 inches in diameter and tasted like cardboard. The main dining room was a glowing blue backlighted dome. I once saw the giant shadow of a rat that was crawling around in the backlight boxes near the outer edge of the dome projected on the ceiling dome. Many diners left at that point.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — October 19, 2020 @ 2:52 pm

  2767. In 1956-7, the Kim Sisters [three] performed at the Seoul Main Base for the troops. They sang current songs and were a big hit. I thought they were lip-synching to records. In 1959-60, I saw them in a lounge show at one of the casinos in Las Vegas. Obviously, they were the real thing.
    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — October 19, 2020 @ 3:49 pm

  2768. In 1956-7, the Kim Sisters [three] performed in the service club at Seoul Military Post [SMP] for the troops. They sang current songs and were a big hit. I thought they were lip-synching to records. In 1959-60, I saw them in a lounge show at one of the casinos in Las Vegas. Obviously, they were the real thing.
    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — October 19, 2020 @ 8:10 pm

  2769. Per 2765, Daryl I rarely ate in the vill as our chow hall had outstanding food.
    Our mess had no seating restrictions according to rank and had Korean waitresses who handed you a small paper with menu choices. You check marked your choice and in a short time she returned with your order. We also had an E.M. Club located just up the hill that offered good food also. No rank restrictions there also.
    Knowing that the best pizza comes from my neck of the woods, I wouldn’t risk going to ”Ashi’s. Got a chuckle from your eating experience there Daryl!

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — October 19, 2020 @ 8:42 pm

  2770. Can not remember the name of the compound I was at but it was a old Jap compound and it was in Young doung po ? on spelling but the food was as described in 2766. Was it Tracy compound

    Jeff Terrell May 66 to Jun 67

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — October 21, 2020 @ 3:31 pm

  2771. per 2767:
    Jeff it may have been the Tracey Compound because there was an old Japanese “Lookout building ?” in the southwest corner of the compound. The Tracey compound was one or two blocks north of the Han river just east of MSR1.

    However I remember Young Doung Po as being on the south side of the Han river and I think Company A had an interrogation unit there??
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — October 21, 2020 @ 7:49 pm

  2772. per 2768
    Jeff I looked up one of your older Emails and you mentioned “Chubby” Kim the interpreter so you were at the Tracey Compound.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — October 21, 2020 @ 7:52 pm

  2773. re: #2767

    Jeff – I lived in a compound in Yeongdeungpo, Tae Bong Dong (sp) in an undercover position assigned to a civilian intelligence group as well as to COG. There was a small Army compound not far away that I used to visit. Don’t remember the name of the compound , but could have been Tracy.

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 21, 2020 @ 8:20 pm

  2774. Thanks to the answer to my question. 66-67 is a long time ago and my memory is not what it use to be

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — October 22, 2020 @ 5:35 pm

  2775. To Daryl and Ed

    The system and food were fantastic at Tracy. When I was there we had best mess in 8th army at least one time and I think twice. What did you have for a CO at Tracy and the FO? I had LC’s. Did guest still have to be escorted from the gate just outside the club into the club? Was there still a midnight curfew when you were there? Did you have cards signed by the director of the Korean Nation Police tell his med to render any and all assistance to you? I know it came in handy when I would have to go up to the Z in the middle of the night with my turn coat and transmit back to the north. The more I think about it I think Younddongpo was on the other side of the river where three or four roads come together and I got backed up against Pre. Johnson caar. MEMORIES

    Jeff Terrell

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — October 23, 2020 @ 3:02 pm

  2776. per 2772
    Jeff we had LCs, (Cougar(?) and Morgan)? Guests had to be escorted to the Club. There was a midnight curfew and we had the CIC (Counterintelligence Corp) cards to show the KNP or ROK Army after curfew. The Tracey Compound food was the best since Company B received rations for many more people that there were in Seoul due to all the field offices spread out across the country. If you go to the Tracey Compound, Seoul Facebook page you can see pictures that may bring back memories from over fifty years ago.
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — October 23, 2020 @ 3:29 pm

  2777. Ed #2762. Yes I believe it was a USO club , located on a hill with a circular driveway leading to the entrance. I remember the hall was huge and was always packed with an assortment of americans, koreans (mostly ladies) and other assorted personnel. The club at yongsan 502nd Bn Hqs was the Hilltop Club.. Someone mentioned the korean talent playing at Tracy compund would also perform at the Hilltop Club I assisted the NCO who ran the club and I was also the guy who ran the projecter two nights a week at the club. I mentioned previous posts that the Untouchables and Rawhide were the two most popular shows. Our mess hall was also a level with the mess hall at Tracy compound Stay healthy and stay safe my friends and fellow vets.

    Comment by charles goffredo — October 23, 2020 @ 6:31 pm

  2778. In 1956-7, the Kim Sisters [three] performed at the service club, Seoul Military Post [SMP] for the troops. They sang current songs and were a big hit. I thought they were lip-synching to records. In 1960, I saw them in a casino lounge show in Las Vegas. Obviously, they were the real thing.
    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — October 24, 2020 @ 11:12 am

  2779. Ref.2774
    Ref. 2774 Bingo Charles, you’ve revived a faded memory! The club located above the mess hall was called the”Hilltop Club. The guys in my section introduced me to the bartender called what else but Mr Kim. Since I was new(fng) Kim made me a “North Korean special with was a concoction of several different boozes
    That I had to drink in haste. I recall going down to my hooch with some difficulty.
    The USO Club(we called the USOM Club) was like you said. On a hill with a circular driveway.
    Thanks for the refresher.
    Ed

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — October 24, 2020 @ 9:38 pm

  2780. Last post should start with Ref. 2777, sorry!

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — October 25, 2020 @ 8:18 pm

  2781. Last post should read Ref. 2777, sorry!

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — October 25, 2020 @ 8:21 pm

  2782. reference 276 I am new to facebook so how do I get to where you suggest??? I can not find a place to get of the home page.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — October 26, 2020 @ 9:39 pm

  2783. Jeff, go to Facebook and in the search box type, “Tracey Compound, Seoul” and it will take you there.

    Comment by bill leach — October 26, 2020 @ 9:59 pm

  2784. Correction Re 2693 (John), 2701 (Dave), 2706 (John again). Apologies – my SMOS was “Coordinator,” not “Analyst.” Sorry for my confusion.
    New Story. At 111th INTC HQ at Ft. McPherson there was a civilian clerk typist, Clara Beckwith, a grandma type figure. She was famous for bringing in cookies on Fridays.
    In the spring on 1966, I was assigned courier duty, taking a metal briefcase from 3rd Army HQ to a Ranger training camp at Elgin AFB in Florida. The commander was a SF major named Charlie Beckwith, sweet Clara’s son.
    When Clara learned where I was going, she gave me a tin of cookies for her son. I was in “civies,” and the next day I arrive at the Ranger camp around lunchtime. After delivering the briefcase, I asked the duty officer where Maj. Beckwith might be. “Probably over at the officer’s mess,” he said.
    So, I wander over to the officer’s mess, open the screen door, and, looking like a lost soul, just stood there looking around. A bunch of officers were sitting at a picnic-type table, and one of them yelled over to me, “Can we help you, son?” I replied, “Yeh, I’ looking for Maj. Beckwith.” Some big guy had his back to the door, yelled back, “Who wants to know?”
    Feeling a little cocky, I said, “His Mommy wanted me to see if he was OK and give him some cookies.”
    After all the laughter died down, this very big guy stood up red-faced and came over to greet me. We had a pleasant chat for about five minutes and I gave him the cookie tin. He gave me a cookie and told me to tell his mom that he loved her and would try to see her soon.
    PS – I later learned that he was an all-American lineman on the Univ. of Georgia football team before joining up – sure glad I didn’t eat any of his cookies.
    PPS – Later in his career, he went to Ft. Bragg and formed the “Delta Team,” a/k/a “Charlie’s Angels.” Also, he led the failed raid in the desert to rescue the US hostages in Tehran.
    Interesting times and interesting people.

    Comment by John Reed — October 26, 2020 @ 11:18 pm

  2785. John,
    Re: #2784. Was this the same Charlie Beckwith who wrote the book about the Vietnam war in which he was very critical of the CIC (“spooks” as I think he called them). I believe was stationed in Germany at the time?). I’ll have to check this out and get back to you.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 27, 2020 @ 6:04 am

  2786. Re no. 2785: Should be the same one you’re thinking of. Name of the book is Delta Force.

    Comment by George Masson — October 27, 2020 @ 5:14 pm

  2787. Manny & George
    I know he wrote a book about his career after he retired after the Desert fiasco, but I don’t recall its title. I also think he headed up some special SF unit in ‘Nam that went in and pulled out Col. Hal Moore’s 1st Bat., 7th Cav. Reg., 3rd Bde. of the 1st Air Cav. in the la Drang Valley (“We Were Soldiers, Once, and Young”). Supposedly saved Moore’s bacon, but Moore never thanked Beckwith. A few months later, January 1966, Beckwith took a .50 cal. in the gut while riding in a chopper. After triage in a field hospital and emergency surgery in ‘Nam, Beckwith was transferred to Great Lakes Naval Hosp for more surgeries and rehab.
    According to Beckwith, while he was at Great Lakes, Hal Moore came to visit some of his troopers, saw Beckwith laying in his bed, and walked right past him without saying a word.
    During this time, Beckwith’s mother was giving us weekly briefings because we loved her and as a result we were big fans of her son.
    It was after he was released from Great Lakes that he went back to Ft. Bragg for a short time, then assigned to command the Ranger Training (3rd Phase-Jungle?) at Eglin AFB.
    John

    Comment by John Reed — October 27, 2020 @ 8:22 pm

  2788. Bill
    reference 2783 I did what you said and I got probably a dozen hit but none for Tracy compound

    Jeff

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — October 28, 2020 @ 8:33 pm

  2789. Jeff, try this link in the facebook search box.
    Seoul, Korea, Company B, 502nd MI Tracey Compound

    Comment by bill leach — October 28, 2020 @ 8:54 pm

  2790. REFERENCE 2789
    Bill I did as you suggested and got into he group and enjoyed it but I could not figure out how to join the group and post. Sorry I am so slow with the computer stuff. I pushed on the blue button that said Join I think but nothing came up. any help would be appreciated.

    Jeff

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — October 29, 2020 @ 4:06 pm

  2791. Ref: 2790
    Jeff send me your email address to daryl@adaptengr.com and I will send you an invite to the Tracey Compound Facebook page.
    daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — October 29, 2020 @ 4:28 pm

  2792. Happy Veteran’s Day to all
    I was just sharing with some of my coffee buddies how lucky I was to have served and shared some of the best times of my life that will live with me forever, take care all

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 11, 2020 @ 10:50 am

  2793. M.I. Veterans Roll Call:

    Please.chime in with your individual postings. Thank you for your service and sacrifice!

    Thank you Richard for starting us off!

    Happy Veterans Day to all!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2020 @ 1:16 pm

  2794. Wishing all Veterans and especially my Ft. Holabird Patriots an honorable Veterans Day. God bless you all!
    Ed. H.

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — November 11, 2020 @ 1:55 pm

  2795. Greetings from Hawaii. Be smart! Be Safe! Happy Veteran’s Day to all of you!!

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — November 11, 2020 @ 2:23 pm

  2796. Greetings from cold and foggy Germany. Thanks to all of my Ft. Holabird brethren for your service and sacrifices. It is an honor to be a part of this elite group. Be careful, stay safe and all the best.
    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 11, 2020 @ 3:06 pm

  2797. Chiming in from Central FL, just on the south side of TS Eta’s cone of probability. The storm herself is due through Friday.
    All hatches battened down (oh, no, that’s Gyrene/Swabbie talk!) and “no sweat” anticipated.
    Best atcha, spooky friends, on “our day” as vets.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — November 11, 2020 @ 3:12 pm

  2798. Happy Veterans Day to all. Let’s hope and pray we all get through this virus scare safely and get to celebrate another Vets Day next year!

    Comment by bill leach jr — November 11, 2020 @ 3:25 pm

  2799. Happy Veterans Day from SoCal. Since I’m one of the oldest {Holabird 1956}, let’s hope we get to celebrate the next Vets Day [Thanks Bill].

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 11, 2020 @ 5:32 pm

  2800. Happy Veterans Day to my fellow Ft Holabird Alumni. Checking in today from Solano County (near Sacramento), California area.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 11, 2020 @ 6:16 pm

  2801. A day late but still here.
    Manny

    Comment by Manfred Adler — November 12, 2020 @ 6:26 am

  2802. Roll Call (continued):

    Thanks to those of you who have responded so far. Please continue to let us know even if you haven’t checked-in thus far. We are interested in your welfare.

    Best,

    Phil Ostrander
    Baltimore County, MD

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 12, 2020 @ 10:52 am

  2803. Present and healthy so far in Seattle WA. Happy Veterans Day.!!

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — November 12, 2020 @ 4:02 pm

  2804. Ref 2779 Ed Im glad I was able to refresh your memory. In reference to Co B troops at the 502nd I believe LTC Cougar followed me to the Presidio of SF 115th MI Group in spring of 1967 He as a gentlemen who upon seeing me in my office came over and shook my hand and asked how I was doing. A nice touch from an LTC to an E5. Recognized me even though I was in a suit and tie civies. Still alive and kicking in Staten Island NY. Stay safe and stay healthy my friends.

    Comment by charles goffredo — November 14, 2020 @ 7:04 pm

  2805. Ref.2804
    Thanks for the acknowledgment Charles. I arrived at the 502nd about a year after you left. Good times there. The Presidio sounded interesting.
    Would like to know how it was there.
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — November 14, 2020 @ 9:19 pm

  2806. Wishing all the “bird” posters a happy and safe Thanksgiving.

    Comment by bill leach — November 25, 2020 @ 4:47 pm

  2807. Kind of different but we are still standing, have a Happy Thanksgiving, stay safe.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 26, 2020 @ 10:58 am

  2808. Have happy and healthy Thanksgiving to all!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 26, 2020 @ 1:01 pm

  2809. Have a Safe and Bountiful Thanksgiving!!!

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — November 26, 2020 @ 3:24 pm

  2810. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 26, 2020 @ 5:55 pm

  2811. Happy Thanksgiving to all. God bless America!

    Comment by Edward w. Hotchkiss — November 26, 2020 @ 9:11 pm

  2812. Proud graduate of the II course, Class 66-T-5 (Sept 1965-Jan 1966, before heading to Vietnam and the 73rd Aviation Company for my tour. Fond memories of the aroma of the salt marshes and seeing the smelters as Sparrow Point belching fire into the skies nightly!
    Everyone stay safe and well and have a great Christmas!

    Comment by David M. Lamb — December 3, 2020 @ 9:27 am

  2813. We have been very quiet for the past week. Hope everyone survived Thanksgiving and COVID and we are just in a lockdown mode.

    Comment by John C. Reed — December 6, 2020 @ 3:29 pm

  2814. Hi David Lamb,
    I read through all these posts and you are the only other person on this site that I know of that is a graduate of the II course. I was in class 67-AS-10 (June-October 1967). I served in the 1st MI battalion (Ariel Reconnaissance Support) in DaNang and Can Tho Vietnam. My complete bio is in post #2087. I would love to hear about your adventures in Vietnam. Did you work in Image Interpretation there?

    Comment by George Zervos — December 9, 2020 @ 11:20 am

  2815. Today, l received a letter from the President, VVA Chapter 451, concerning the status of the one remaining military-related building (Officers Open Mess) of what once was Fort Holabird. VVA uses the building for its membership by paying rent to Baltimore City at the rate of $1.00 per year. The pandemic has severely effected its operation. In February 2020, the lounge was closed. In March 2020, the entire building was closed and locked-down. One of the board members makes regular security checks on the facility. The lights will be kept on and they will be ready to re-open once conditions permit. I am sure this is a sign of the times for American Legion and VFW halls as well.

    Seasons Greetings to all!

    Please feel free to check-in and wish your fellow veterans well!

    Phil Ostrander
    VVA Member

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 14, 2020 @ 4:57 pm

  2816. Thanks for the update Phil. These are sad times. The VFW in my town closed and they tore it down.

    Comment by Bill leach — December 14, 2020 @ 10:58 pm

  2817. Bill,

    Thanks for your comment. It gave me an idea to do some research on the subject. The American Legion is still the largest veterans organization in the U.S with between 2.0 and 2.4 million members. Despite this fact, its membership has shrunk by almost 1/3 in the past 30 years. The average age of a member is about age 70. Only about 15% of Afganistan and Iraq war veterans have signed-on as new members. Today, the majority of their membership is made up of Vietnam Era vets. The situation with the VFW and other older established vet organizations is very similar.

    Some of the younger vets have decided to sign-on with newer organizations. One example is Team Red,White, and Blue or TeamRWB which started in 2010. It is a group committed to community service and physical fitness. They are also much more social network oriented then the more established groups. However, with a membership of only 115,000, they still have a long way to go to catch up with the old guard.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 15, 2020 @ 1:15 pm

  2818. I was a boot Marine ordered to Holabird in 1966 for the Aerial Photo Interpretation course. After graduation I was sent to El Toro Marine Air Station in California for a few months and then to III MAF HQ in Danang and its Photo Image Interpretation Center from April ’67 through March ’68, including the Tet Offensive. Based on this experience, I recently published my war novel on Amazon. It’s called Somebody’s Catching Hell and it got a great review from Kirkus. Please take a moment to check it out. Would make a great Christmas present.

    Comment by Peter F Smith — December 15, 2020 @ 3:23 pm

  2819. Phil…your post Nr. 2815 had me really worried. I thought you were going to report that the president of VVA Chapter 451 had contacted you to advise that the Officers Open Mess building would be closed. Thank goodness that is not the case. Surely the last remaining military building at what was then USAINTS has considerable historical value.
    Thanks for all you do there Phil and for this great website.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 15, 2020 @ 7:18 pm

  2820. Gary,

    I hope that the powers-that-be have the historical significance of what remains at Fort Holabird in mind and know that it deserves to be protected. In the meantime, as mentioned above, a Chapter 451 Vice President who is also a retired Baltimore City Police Sergeant makes daily security checks on the structure and its premises.

    Gary, thanks for supporting this website! I have been enamored with it and with the historic value of the physical site since Agent School. Additionally, thanks for welcoming me onboard back in 2013.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 15, 2020 @ 11:35 pm

  2821. Hello George Zervos (Posts 2087, 2467, 2814) Please see my Post 2818. When you were stationed at the ARVN I CORPS HQ in Danang, I was just up the road towards Monkey Mountain at III Marine Amphibious Force HQ. For a period of time I was head of the photo library, which meant I was the designated Jeep driver for photo runs to the Danang air base and the Marine photo lab situated there. One day I had to deliver an envelope to your unit so, who knows, maybe I handed it to you. During the Tet Offensive, I clearly remember the ARVN Skyraiders diving down to deliver their bombs on your facility and then jerking away into the sky. The day after the failed VC/NVA attack on your compound, on the way to and from the airbase I could see the burnt bodies you mentioned of the enemy lined up beside a road adjacent to your northern compound wall. I later did some research in connection with my novel (Somebody’s Catching Hell) on that battle and learned that two Marines were killed in responding to the battle. Both of them were from a Military Police unit. The ARVN I CORPS commander, Lt. Gen. Lam, later emigrated to the U.S. and died a couple of years ago in San Jose, CA.

    Comment by Peter F Smith — December 17, 2020 @ 7:14 pm

  2822. Best wishes for the holidays to all our Parkway pals and may the New Year become mask-free and non-distant. A special thanks to Jim, Craig and Phil for keeping us going.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 21, 2020 @ 3:02 pm

  2823. A happy holidays to all of you and may this coming year become one without masks and and social distancing. And a special thank you to Jim, Craig and Phil our I&R squad. You guys keep us going.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 21, 2020 @ 3:08 pm

  2824. Happy Holidays to Manny, Jim, Craig, and all of my fellow posters! As Manny indicated, please also take the necessary precautions for your safety during the pandemic. I already know of several people who have suffered, however, not fatally under this unfortunate set of circumstances.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 22, 2020 @ 9:11 pm

  2825. Merry Christmas to my associates of the Ft.Holabird cloth. A happy new year to all and remember not to fall for the commie propaganda.
    God bless you and the United States.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — December 22, 2020 @ 10:05 pm

  2826. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all my fellow veterans and active duty members out there. Stay safe and Stay Healthy

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — December 23, 2020 @ 5:48 pm

  2827. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all my fellow Fort Holabird Veterans. Hopefully 2021 will be mask free at some point.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — December 24, 2020 @ 12:27 pm

  2828. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of our fellow “Bird” men. May next year be better and healthier and find us all still here.
    The day always seems a little brighter when I see a new post on this site.

    Comment by Bill Leach — December 24, 2020 @ 10:28 pm

  2829. Best wishes in the coming year to all of you. Be safe!! One of the volcanos on the island of Hawaii is erupting and sending some fiery lava up in the holiday skies. A shout out to Richard Duarte, my fellow 526 comrade from Okinawa. Went up to Punchbowl the other day to put flowers on my parents burial niche. Walked by COL Mock and CW4 Tokunaga’s respective niches and gave them a holiday knock and salute.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — December 25, 2020 @ 4:30 pm

  2830. Happy Holidays to all my fellow Ft. Holabird grads and Permanent Party!
    I would love to invite you all to the 1-2-3 Club, NCO Club and/or Officers Club, but alas, they only exist in our memories. But oh….what great memories.
    The powers that be can close our post, close our clubs and erase all physical evidence of our beloved “Bird”, but they can’t take our memories and friendships that were developed in Dundalk.
    Best wishes for the New Year and stay safe and healthy my friends.

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 26, 2020 @ 8:53 am

  2831. I hope everyone had a safe and Merry Christmas. Looking forward to a better New Year for everyone. Great to hear from Wayne in beautiful Hawaii and all those great names from the past hope to get there some day myself. Take care everyone.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 26, 2020 @ 11:37 am

  2832. Re: 2830

    Gary,

    You are so right! Most of Fort Holabird is but a memory in our minds. However, for the astute Birdofile, traces of our illustrious fort remain.
    I submit the following:

    * The Officers Open Mess – closed for now but awaiting it’s re-birth

    * An M551 Sheridan Tank (Vietnam War vintage)- currently sits at the entrance to the Open Mess

    * Portside Apartments (formerly Cummins Apartments) – built in 1950 and recently renovated, housed Officers ( including General Colin Powell) and EMs

    * “Tank Hill” – three inclined jeep test tracks located on a hill on the southwest side of the old fort hidden in a small grove of trees

    * Remnants of the old oval jeep test track that sit in front of “Tank Hill”

    * Two bungelow style houses next to one another on Detroit Avenue near Chesapeake Avenue which were family officers quarters

    * Colgrate Creek – now in a pristine state because all of the industrial polluters have vanished

    * the B & O Railroad Trestle over Beckley Street

    * Fort Holabird historical marker on Dundalk Avenue near Holabird Avenue

    * Off post – the Holabird Inn the Keystone Inn remain although re-named and
    Squires is still there only in a totally renovated state

    Fort Holabird lives on in our hearts and in our minds and for those amateur historians like me, there will always be something tangible to hang onto. Plus, it doesn’t hurt to live less than 20 minutes away from our alma mater.

    Happy New Year!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 26, 2020 @ 2:25 pm

  2833. Phil, I believe everything you said except “Colgate Creek is now pristine”. That is harder to believe than the trestle is still standing. 😉
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — December 26, 2020 @ 9:43 pm

  2834. Bill,

    Thanks for your comments. As one who spent almost three continuous years there, I certainly respect your opinion. You really must see it now. I last looked at it about six months or so where I was close enough to throw a stone across it. Even though it was only a few feet deep, I saw clearly to the bottom throughout my line of sight. I stood on the creek bank and detected no smell unlike what you and I remember. I was behind the Officers Open Mess looking at the bridge than spanned the Creek on the way uphill toward the USAINTS classroom building on the other side of the street. It is true that I saw no fish, maybe that will come next. It wasn’t perfect, but, oh what a difference! And yes, the footbridge that we remember so well is now gone.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 26, 2020 @ 10:27 pm

  2835. Hi Peter Smith (posts 2818, 2821),

    I hadn’t been on the Parkway web site for a while and was really surprised to get your card. There have hardly been any people on this web site that have been to the Image Interpretation course at Holabird, just you, me and one other person that I know of, who never responded to me. Practically all of the rest were in the agent or counter-intelligence courses. Actually, I really wanted to be in one of those courses, but I got put in II. I supposed it’s a good thing since the Hue detachment of special agents got killed or captured during the Tet offensive.

    The similarity of our Vietnam experiences is incredible to me. We were at the same place, doing the same job, during approximately the same time period. I also did some of the things that you did, e.g., exploring the off-limits city of Da Nang, visiting China Beach, going to the Bob Hope Christmas show, and shoving aside our stereoscopes and grabbing our rifles to defend ourselves during the Tet offensive.

    I ordered your book, Somebody’s Catching Hell, and am really looking forward to reading it.

    Regards,

    George Zervos

    Comment by George Zervos — December 27, 2020 @ 2:39 pm

  2836. Phil I can only imagine how many tears you caused to fall with the news that the old swinging bridge is no more!

    Comment by bill leach — December 27, 2020 @ 8:55 pm

  2837. Bill,

    Each class certainly did have fun watching and feeling it swing much to the chagrin of the NCO leading each group over the bridge.

    Thanks for the memory!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 27, 2020 @ 9:31 pm

  2838. Hello:
    Just wanted to share a December memory of Holabird. I got there in the first week of December 1965. Our class was bunked in the first floor of the old brick building. There were five of us from So Cal in the class and at the first snow we were out there in t-shirts throwing snowballs in the beautiful white blanketed field. The East Coast guys were putting on their longjohns and laughing at us. The next day we were all sick and the field was full of soot from the Chevy plant! Great memories.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 28, 2020 @ 11:38 am

  2839. Re: 2838

    Richard,

    I remember the Chevy/GM plant. My father-in-law retired from that plant as a parts handler. It was one of many good paying but heavily polluting industries that surrounded Fort Holabird. Companies such as Fleischmann’s Federal Yeast Factory, Lever Brothers Soap Factory, Sun Oil Refinery, National Brewery, and the Western Electric plant along with the GM plant are all gone now. When they left they took the jobs and most of the pollution with them. It was truly a double-edged sword for the Dundalk-East Baltimore City area.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 29, 2020 @ 8:48 am

  2840. 1961 CI analyst at FTB

    Comment by Ed Gomeau — December 31, 2020 @ 12:13 pm

  2841. Re: 2835
    Hi George:
    Thanks for responding and buying my novel about a Marine Aerial Photo Interpreter in Vietnam. I agree that our experiences were indeed almost identical. Sorry to hear about the guys killed or captured in Hue during the Tet Offensive of Jan. 1968. Two of my high school classmates survived Hue. One was a Marine intelligence officer who concealed himself in a bathtub as NVA searched his house and the other was a Marine chopper pilot who flew extraction missions from Hue and later earned a Silver Star for an unrelated mission. After you’ve read Somebody’s Catching Hell, I’d like to get your perspective on it from (1) an MOS professional’s view, (2) someone who served in Danang at that time, and (3) an officer’s versus enlisted’s experience.
    Thanks again and Happy New Year,
    Peter

    Comment by Peter F Smith — December 31, 2020 @ 4:00 pm

  2842. Happy (?) New Year, all.
    Well, it’s come to this after all we did to thwart the red menace for our beloved US of A.
    Insanity now reigns supreme despite our best, valiant efforts.
    As I said, happy new year. I guess I’ve lived too long.
    Bill

    Comment by Bill Schulz — January 13, 2021 @ 2:44 pm

  2843. Hi Bill,

    Appreciate that you are trying to keep this site non-political.

    Happy New Year to you and yours!

    Fiats forever!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 13, 2021 @ 3:59 pm

  2844. Phil,

    “Fiats forever!” Huh? Always curious.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 14, 2021 @ 6:15 am

  2845. Manny,

    It is the name of an automobile make. Bill has owned several over the years.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 14, 2021 @ 8:32 am

  2846. Does anyone remember the FTXs at Ft. Howard involving Special Forces sergeants who were completing the interrogators’ course? Once, about twenty members of my agent’s class got “volunteered” to be captured and questioned. We were given “secret information” consisting of our mission, troop strength, command HQ, etc. We then boarded a T-Boat at the dock at the west end of Holabird Avenue and traveled by water to Ft. Howard. We disembarked at a small dock just before daybreak, our “mission” was to “capture the flag” at an old flag pole on the abandoned Ft. Howard grounds. Of course, we were all “captured” and “persuaded” to disclose our mission and other “secrets.” Some of us were marched out into the freezing water until they talked. I ended up in an old metal wall locker that was then beaten with clubs – the wall locker, not me. It was a very disorienting experience and I broke down and spilled my guts. My interrogation was by handwritten questions because I couldn’t hear anything after the “beating.” About two days later my hearing was back to normal. I have to use hearing aids today, but I have no way of blaming my age-related hearing loss on the FTX.
    Questions – Did anyone else participate in a similar FTX? Does anyone remember the T-Boat docked at the end of Holabird Avenue?

    Comment by John C. Reed — January 18, 2021 @ 12:02 pm

  2847. John,

    Sorry that you have not been contacted so far. You may want to check out the Fort Holabird Facebook Group as I have seen information there including a picture about the T-Boat or a facsimile used at the Bird and docked on Colgate Creek.

    Phil

    Comment by philip ostrander — January 26, 2021 @ 2:42 pm

  2848. Re:2847 (cont.)

    You also may want to query Fort Duc Huc or the Fort Howard Vietnamese Village on Google for more information on the village within an abandoned fort.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 26, 2021 @ 6:17 pm

  2849. FYI,
    Book review. A book about Vietnam era veterans many of you may find interesting: THEY WERE SOLDIERS by Galloway and Wolf.
    (Yes that Galloway). Came out in 2020.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — February 11, 2021 @ 7:02 am

  2850. Friends,

    For any of you that have not checked out the Fort Holabird Facebook Group webpage in the past 2 weeks, there are a couple of postings by a former non-MI G.I., named Jon Merryman. Like me, he is a local to Baltimore. Recently, he has been involved in a number of neighborhood group clean-ups around town and one of them involved Fort Holabird. One of the items that he discovered was a decaying footlocker left by 2LT William S. Sawyer (picture is included in the Facebook article).

    Phil O.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 11, 2021 @ 6:41 pm

  2851. Flying in the Army as a passenger in 1956-7.

    [Since it’s been ten+ days w/o any postings, I might add some trivia – although I may have presented some of this years ago in this blog and/or the Golden Sphinx. It’s really for my grandsons, so don’t bother reading if you’re easily bored.]

    A.] My first airplane flight was in 1956 [Holabird, Jan. – April] from BWI {Baltimore} to DCA [Washington DC] on a tail dragger {DC-3}, a distance of about 40 miles. Our Army bus got us to BWI two hours early – the bus could have delivered us to DCA sooner than the commercial plane did. From DCA, we flew to Tacoma/Seattle, WA [destination: Fort Lewis].
    In 1956, the planes were propeller driven. The subsequent flight {DCA to SEA} made nine stops with a total time of 22 hours. There were three stops in Montana, including one that we were told was unscheduled to deliver a plane part. The Army let contracts for transportation. Those of us at the end of the alphabet flew. The other guys went by train.

    B.] The Army {MATS} used Douglas C-124 planes for transporting troops from Korea [our airport had three designations: Seoul, K-14, Kimpo] to Japan [Tachikawa] and back, including R&R [rest and recuperation]. I flew on these at least ten times. The planes were double decker with many troops tightly packed in bench seats with shoulder seat belts. On Feb. 22, 1957, a C-124 crashed in the Han River shortly after take-off from Kimpo [now called Gimpo]. Twenty-two died. Several of our guys [Seoul CIC] were on-board, but survived unscathed. One of our guys [forgot his name; he was from HI] found a severed arm on his lap.

    C .] Even thought we were assigned to Korea, we {CIC} left the ship in Japan while others spent three more days going to Pusan.
    After spending a few days at Camp Drake, we flew to Korea [Seoul, not Pusan]. The same in reverse when returning to the States.
    One of our guys had his plane from Japan to Korea immediately turn around after takeoff and land with no explanation. He and others were told to return the next day for the same flight. The plane also had the same tail number. It made a hard stop on the runway before takeoff. Sameo-sameo. The third day, same tail number. No choice, you’re on orders. No problem this time.

    D.] One time, I hitchhiked on a Navy flight from Pusan [now Busan] to Japan on a flying boxcar [C-119]. The plane had clamshell rear doors so that paratroopers could quickly jump from both sides of the plane. During the pilot briefing, he said that when [not if] I turn on the blue light over the door to the cockpit, you jump out of the plane. The flight was over water [Sea of Japan] so we were wearing a life jacket and a parachute. Since I was on leave I could have skipped the flight, but never gave it a thought.

    E.] We flew commercial [couldn’t get a MATS flight] from Manilla, PHL to Hong Kong. It was a thrilling landing at Kai Tak [the old Hong Kong airport] because we could see inside apartment building which extended higher than our airplane. It was a short runway and a challenge for the pilots.

    F.] Two of us hitchhiked on a Navy flight from Hong Kong to Taiwan. It was a small amphibious plane with no bath room – just a pee tube. While waiting for the MATS flight from Taiwan to Japan, General Maxwell Taylor’s, Army chief of staff at the time, plane landed at the Taiwan airport. I didn’t get out of my chair even for the possibility of seeing the General.

    G.] There’s nothing like hearing roaring engines for 14 hours while flying on a MATS prop plane [Lockheed Constellation] flight from Tokyo to Manilla, PH

    H.] One time, after we boarded the C-124 at Kimpo for a flight to Japan, we smelled a strong odor. We were ordered off the plane. An hour later we were allowed back on with no explanation. Since it was R&R for me,
    I could have said “to hell with it”, but young and trusting I never gave it a thought.
    The seating on the C-124 was four longitudinal rows running the length of the passenger area. The seating was canvas bench. Two benches were running along the fuselages with the passenger backs to the fuselages and facing inward. The two center rows were back to back with the passengers facing the fuselages. All seats had shoulder seat belts. No one faced forward. C- means cargo, so no windows.

    PS – Remember in Korea when one was good and ten was bad. After the Bo Derek movie [???], ten was good and one was bad.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 22, 2021 @ 10:50 am

  2852. Bernie,

    Either you have one hell of a memory or you took great notes about your experience in the ROK. I was there for 10 months but my time was totally uneventful compared to yours.

    I had the same basic flights that you had from CONUS to Tachikawa, Japan to Kimpo, ROK and back again after 10 months with an early out to go back to school to finish my B.A. degree. I think that I flew aboard DC-8s which were civilian aircraft chartered by the military. All of the stewardesses were older with a lot of experience. I, too, started and ended my flights from/to Seattle/Tacoma, Washington. The initial flight was on smaller jets as mentioned above. The return flight went from SEA/TAC to Chicago aboard a 747 Jumbo and then on to BWI on a smaller commercial AC. I have never been on a smoother flight in my life as the one on a 747. All flights were uneventful. I will never forget seeing Mt. Fuji from my window on both flights. This was in 1970 and in 1971. I was so excited to be going home, that I didn’t even miss my yobo until much later.

    If any of you want to share your flying experience in CONUS or overseas, please chime-in.

    Thanks,

    Phil O.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 22, 2021 @ 3:17 pm

  2853. Bernie,
    Mid-50’s (55-57), DC-3(Gooney Bird). Andrews to Writ-Pat Dayton, Ohio (Kitty-Hawk Courier). Constellation MATS (Air Force) ran both flights with WAAF stewardesses, last named from Mcquire(?) AF base next Dix to Paris (stop at GanderBay, NewFoundland). The latter flight all for one or two weeks TDY.

    Wow, all these acronyms. Phil, also got out 3 months early for university,
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 22, 2021 @ 5:29 pm

  2854. Bernie, “YOU NUMBER 1 GI”

    Comment by jack widmaier — February 22, 2021 @ 9:17 pm

  2855. The first time that I got to fly in an aircraft was in Feb 1965, courtesy of the US Army. I enlisted at the Oakland Induction Center (Oakland, CA). Our group was bussed across the bay to San Francisco International where we got a surprise – we were not going to Ft Ord, CA for our Basic Training. We would be going to Ft Polk, LA, instead!

    That night we boarded a large four engine (props) commericial aircraft (chartered) and they flew us down to Los Angeles International. We were there for several hours and then boarded another charter commercial aircraft which flew us to Dallas TX.

    A couple of hours later, we boarded another charter, prop engine aircraft and we were flown to August, GA. About an hour later, we boarded another prop aircraft which then flew us back to Shreveport, LA. There, busses were waiting for us and we were bussed down to Ft Polk, arriving in the middle of the night.

    At graduation from Basic, our platoon got to meet Roy Rogers & Dale Evans. Their son, John Rogers, was in our platoon and he introduced his friends to his parents. After graduation, a few of us boarded a DC-3 (C-47) where we were flown to Dallas Airport.

    I flew home for a two week leave but had to pay my own way as I recall. But the Army paid my way from San Francisco to Baltimore Airport where I took a taxi to downtown Baltimore.
    Three of us stayed at a hotel in downtown for a couple of nights and got to attend a wonderful concert with the popular muscial artists of the time (Herman’s Hermits; The Beach Boys; Bobby Sherman; Wayne Fontana, etc).

    After our stay at the hotel, my friends went on to Aberdeen Proving grounds for their AIT while I caught a city bus that took me to Ft Holabird to start my MI training.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 22, 2021 @ 11:17 pm

  2856. My first ever flight was in 1955 aboard a TWA Super Constellation. My Dad was career Air Force and had served 4 years (1951-55) at South Ruislip Air Force Base and we flew London to New York, via Ireland and Greenland in roughly 19 hours.

    My first flight in the military was right out of Basic at Ft. Ord, CA. Flew from San Francisco to Baltimore. Took a taxi from Friendship Airport to Dundalk and recall being highly upset when we passed through the main gate archway and I read…United States Army Intelligence School. Nobody at Ord in my basic training outfit (A-5-1) knew what a 96C2L29 MOS was so I had no idea what my job would be…When we passed through that archway, I thought the army believed I was so dumb that I needed “intelligence school”.

    After Ft. Holabird, I got orders for the 66th MI Group, 18th MI Bn, with field station in Berlin at the Joint Refugee Operations Center (JROC), so flew from Washington DC to Frankfurt, Germany. Didn’t fly once in the next 9 years in Berlin.

    After Berlin and my time in intelligence, I worked until retirement for a leading US sporting goods company and spent all of those years flying around my area of responsibility, which was EMEA (Europe, Middle East, Africa). Lots of airplanes and time at airports during those years.

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 23, 2021 @ 8:05 pm

  2857. My first encounter with military transportation was in 1950 when my mother and I went by ship from Honolulu to Japan. We were on the USN Gaffey. We were on the “milk run” which meant that the ship stopped at any port to either drop off or pick passengers between Hawaii and Japan. I have no specific recollection of the exact route the ship took. When we departed Japan in 1955 we left my air. All I know was that we were on a four engine plane and faced backwards. We probably stopped at least on Midway as I do recall the many goonies. From Hickam we flew to Travis where we were transported to Oakland/SanFrancisco. We then boarded a regular commercial flight from San Francisco to Chicago and then on to Detroit where my dad’s next duty station was. More later on my flights as a soldier.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — February 24, 2021 @ 3:14 pm

  2858. Flying in the Army in 1940s.

    President Roosevelt and Prime Minister Churchill had an agreement before the US declared war on the Axis Powers to supply war planes [flying boats and land planes] to the British.

    My wife’s third cousin [Steve] went to aircraft mechanics school in 1940. He got a mechanics job in West Africa with Pan-American Airlines Africa Ltd. in 1941 before US entry into WW11. To get to Africa, Steve took plane hops to the east coast of Brazil before flying across the Atlantic Ocean to West Africa. One hop was 200-250 miles across the mouth of the Amazon River.

    PAA-Africa had the contract in Africa to service US made planes. Pan Am pilots would ferry the planes to West Africa in 1941 before our involvement in WW11. The Brits would fly down from North Africa to one of nine bases [Dakar, Bathurst, Freetown, Fisherman’s Lake, Roberts Field, Takoradi, Lagos, Kana, and Maiduguri] to pick up the planes. Accra in the British Gold Coast [now Ghana] was headquarters for PAA-Africa.

    When the US declared war, Steve was told [1942] that he would be drafted into the Army to do the same job/same location for a private’s pay – unacceptable to him. So, Steve hopped flights to the US and got a job with TWA in Scotland doing aircraft mechanics on US Army planes. This kept him from being drafted.

    Steve met his wife in Scotland. She died in the 1980s. In 1999, Steve invited me to be his guest at a PAA-Africa reunion in Kansas City. One woman was entertaining us with her husband’s [a pilot for PAA-Africa] “war stores”. I assumed her husband was dead until someone told me that the old man standing beside her, who was laughing and reacting the same as the rest of us to her stories, was her husband who had dementia to the point that he was enjoying the stories.

    At the reunion, I met Andy Dawson and bought his book [co-author with Tim Culbert] “Pan Africa, Across the Sahara in 1941 with Pan Am” [copyright 1998].

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 24, 2021 @ 3:32 pm

  2859. I’m flying high today (mentally). Getting my first vaccine shot at 2:15 pm in Seattle. Hope all are well and are or soon getting protected.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 13, 2021 @ 5:21 pm

  2860. Roll Call and Covid 19 Vaccination :

    Let us take the lead from Daryl in #2859 and check-in while giving us you vaccine status at the same time.

    I got my second shot last month.

    Thanks!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 13, 2021 @ 7:01 pm

  2861. Good for you Phil!!!

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 13, 2021 @ 7:59 pm

  2862. I got my 2nd shot about 3 weeks ago, No bad reaction.

    Comment by bill leach — March 13, 2021 @ 11:06 pm

  2863. The renowned German bureaucracy and thoroughness is definitely misplaced in this vaccination process. They have just finished the 80+ age group and are now starting with the 70+ folks. I’m registered, but don’t have an appointment for the first vaccination yet.
    Glad to hear you gents are doing well.
    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 14, 2021 @ 9:28 am

  2864. I got my 2d Pfizer last month, just a sore shoulder, reminded me of my overseas vax. Wayne, in Hawaii, were you effected by the floods, I hope all is well., take care

    Comment by Richard Duarte — March 14, 2021 @ 9:36 am

  2865. Had my first COVID-19 vax at Disneyland overflow parking lot and second one Feb. 28 at the Anaheim Convention Center. My wife got her second vax March 10. Minor discomfort.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 14, 2021 @ 12:01 pm

  2866. Richard, thanks for your concern regarding the floods in Hawaii. There was only heavy rain where I live. The flooding was in other parts of Oahu. Had my first vaccine this past Sunday. Second Moderna shot scheduled for April 4. Be safe guys!!!!

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — March 14, 2021 @ 3:37 pm

  2867. Thanks for your interest. I am well and healthy. Keeping my immune system charged with vitamin D3,C,Zinc and other natural supplements.
    I will not be getting the shot as there is no proof it works. It’s experimental.
    I wish you all the best.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — March 14, 2021 @ 8:38 pm

  2868. My wife and I are doing well and safe from the Covid-19. We received our second vaccinations on Feb. 21, 2021, from Kaiser Medical Center in Vacaville, CA. But back in January, my ex sister in law, who is younger than my wife, contacted my wife and told her that she should try to get us appointments with Kaiser to get our vaccinations. My ex-sister in law said that she was on hold for four hours before someone talked with her but she was able to get appointments for herself and her husband.

    After hearing that, my wife called Kaiser and “only” had to wait for two and a half hours before she spoke with someone who then provided both of us with appointments for our first shots! I was surprised that she was able to get appointments for both of us because while I’m over 75, she is in her mid sixties.

    Here in California, the state has categories for folks before they are able to get their vaccinations. So that prohibits a lot of folks from getting shots. The vaccinations are going really slow here because the state seems to be holding back on releasing the vaccines.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 15, 2021 @ 12:15 am

  2869. Re: Vaccinations

    Both at VA. Flawless.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 15, 2021 @ 5:34 am

  2870. Alive & kickin’ in God’s waiting room, Florida.
    Rapidly approaching 86, I still haven’t grown up. Last summer I bought a walk-behind lawnmower, self-propelled, and I’m now engaged in replacement of the lower control arms on my FIAT. A little premature at 58K miles and eight years, I agree. The “lubed for life” aspect of modern automotive genius seems to have expired.
    All in all, I’m finding those muscles which I seem to have ignored and they’re letting me know they don’t cotton to being awakened! Ouch!
    Shots for a bogus “pandemic?” No way! What happened to the numbers for the seasonal virus? (nil) Deaths exaggerated by 1250% by our esteemed CDC? Motorcycle accident deaths being attributed to covid-19?
    Something wrong with this picture? You tell me.
    So, to answer your question, haven’t gotten, will not get.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — March 15, 2021 @ 9:50 am

  2871. Thanks to everyone who has responded so far!

    We were just able to schedule my wife, who is 8 1/2 years younger than me (age 73), for her initial Covid-19 vaccination for this Thursday. KP in Maryland is very efficient. When I got my two shots last month everything went very smoothly. They emailed both of us in advance to provide a variety of times to choose from over a two day period.

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — March 16, 2021 @ 5:01 pm

  2872. This site has been quiet for a few weeks, I hope everyone is alright. I always figured “no news is good news” but these days, I’m not so sure.
    Let’s have some good news. 🙂

    Comment by bill leach — March 28, 2021 @ 9:05 pm

  2873. RE 2872
    Bill, getting vaccine second shot tomorrow. Phil I am not getting the “Trojan” warnings so updating Malware app helped. Hope all are well.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 29, 2021 @ 3:39 pm

  2874. The wife and I got the second Pfizer vax on Feb 26 at our local hospital. I had no reactions, except a sore injection site. The wife had a mild reaction after the 1st shot and after the 2nd shot, she had radiating pain from the injection site to her fingertips. Cleared up 12 hours later. Feel very comfortable about not wearing masks for our own protection, but will continue wearing them for the protection of the un-vaxed.
    Sooo – Stay Safe, Stay Healthy, and Stay Away From Me (at least six feet).

    Comment by John C. Reed — March 29, 2021 @ 7:15 pm

  2875. Re posts #2846, #2847, and #2848: Since my #2846 post, I have done more research on the T-Boat. It was not docked in Colgate Creek while I was at the ‘Bird, it was docked in the Inner Harbor at the eastern end of Dundalk Ave. It was commanded be a warrant officer and used in FTXs. It could also be rented out on weekends through the Officer’s Club for cruise parties (for officers and guests only, enlisted not allowed). It was there when I was at the ‘Bird in 1964 and also there in 1965. I met a guy who was grad from Holabird High in my hometown. When he was in Easy Company waiting for his class to start, he was assigned to the T-Boat. He slept on board, ate on board, and swabbed the deck and painted while on board. He enjoyed it because the WO was a good guy, no formations, KP, or other “Easy Assignments,” but he did not want to do it all the time.
    The Vietnamese village, “Duc Huc” was constructed in mid-1965 or later, after my tenure at the ‘Bird.

    Comment by John C. Reed — March 29, 2021 @ 7:49 pm

  2876. Please be advised that if you are having any problems with accessing this website in the future, you need to contact Crag Sprout at Csprout@gmail.com. Craig Is very responsive and is also very tech savy. He has taken on the responsibility of running this site. Someday, although I am one of the younger contributors, I, hopefully, will be going to the big field office up there, so please make note of his email address for your reference needs.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 29, 2021 @ 11:00 pm

  2877. Correction re post 2875. The T-Boat dock was at the western end of Holabird Ave., not the eastern end. Holabird Ave. was severed by a highway leading to the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel and a railroad yard. The eastern section ran from the Tunnel Highway eastwardly along the north side of the ‘Bird. The western section lead from the Tunnel Highway/railroad yards westward to the docks in the Northwest Harbor, northeast of and across the ship channel from Ft. McHenry.
    Reference https://waynedow.net/pdffiles/extract4.pdf which is an officer’s guide to Ft. Holabird. Page 16 describes the T-Boat as a 68 ft. diesel-powered boat designated as T-41 with a capacity of 40 persons. This guide was prepared in the mid-1950’s and in addition to a photo of the T-Boat, has many other cool photos and lots of other information that will trigger fond memories. Have a good time visiting the site.

    Comment by John Reed — April 7, 2021 @ 3:55 pm

  2878. Ref. Entry 2877
    Enjoyed the site John,thanks.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — April 7, 2021 @ 9:37 pm

  2879. For the record: I have had both Pfizer vaccinations and wear my mask when social distancing isn’t possible to do my part to save American lives . Pretty much the same reason I joined the army 54 years ago.

    Comment by jack widmaier — April 13, 2021 @ 8:30 pm

  2880. More Trivia.
    In 1956-7 in the ROK, our mama-sans and houseboys would always seen to know when we were off to Japan. They would advance us won to buy them ajinomoto [MSG]. We would always buy some for them even though they never had a limit.
    Since many readers of this blog thread served in the ROK in later years, did your mama-sans/houseboys still want you to buy ajinomoto?
    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — April 14, 2021 @ 3:29 pm

  2881. RE #2880
    Mr. Thielen by 1968-1969 I did not hear any requests for ajinomoto. Maybe others did.

    My mama-san would bring “yakimandu” (fried spicey pot stickers) occasionally which I would pay her for. I think about 20 to 25 cents for a box with 10-12 pot stickers. Good times!!

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 19, 2021 @ 12:09 pm

  2882. I posted this on the Facebook Ft Holabird Alumni group page and received a lot of comments which were great reads.

    This weekend, 56 years ago (1965), I flew to Baltimore Airport from San Francisco after taking a short leave after Basic Training at Ft Polk, LA.

    I travelled with two friends and we stayed at the Holiday Inn in downtown Baltimore for two nights. We got to attend a wonderful concert with many of the music artists of the day (Beach Boys, Wayne Fontana, Herman’s Hermits, Bobby Sherman, and many others).

    Then on Sunday I took a taxi to Ft Holabird to report for my “Classified Training” as stated on my orders. My friends went on to Aberdeen Proving Grounds for their AIT.

    And like everyone else that went to Holabird, I was pleasantly surprised at the reception I received when I arrived as well as the accommodations (compared to Ft Polk). I got to spend six months at Holabird and met alot of wonderful people, received excellent training, and made many great memories.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 24, 2021 @ 11:05 pm

  2883. Tony,

    As bad as the physical environment was with all of the industrial pollution, I never heard one person complain about the reception they received there or their experience during training. It was almost a dream assignment for being in the army.

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — April 26, 2021 @ 12:46 pm

  2884. Ref: 2883
    Phil,Tony, a dream A.I.T. Assignment.for sure and the cherry on top is my assignment after graduation in 1967.
    Ft. Shafter that sits outside of Honolulu has got to be the ultimate USARPAC or any other deployment destination.
    Was there for one year before KOREA and Vietnam.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — April 26, 2021 @ 9:05 pm

  2885. Anyone:
    A question: Did those of you going through Holabird as students pull KP, guard duty, etc.?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 27, 2021 @ 5:35 am

  2886. Hello all, Never had KP, guard duty, or even laundry, the hardest part was marching to class in January. Then my first assignment was at LA

    Hello and best to all, never had KP, guard duty or even laundry. Hardest duty was marching to class in January, 1966. Then my first assignment was to Los Angeles Field Office,(115th MI Gp)15 minutes from home, then Okinawa. Great times.

    f

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 27, 2021 @ 9:34 am

  2887. Arrived at Friendship the weekend of the Preakness. I had no idea as to what was going on, only that I could not find a room so I went to Holabird to report in early. My orders were incorrectly written. I was assigned to the garrison instead of the school. The mix-up was quickly discovered and I was delivered by sedan to the school. I was advised that my class would not scheduled to start for about 2 weeks. I was assigned a barracks and further that I would be working in the billeting office until my class 66-B-24 would start. The billeting office took care of issuing rooms at the NCO and Officer temporary housing for newly assigned personnel at Holabird. You worked either the day or night shift, each about 10 hours in duration. After our class started there was no additional duty. It was a fun assignment.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — April 27, 2021 @ 3:17 pm

  2888. Did anyone have KP during an overseas assignment when stationed on a military base? At Seoul headquarters in 1956-7, our only extra duty was gate guard duty.

    Korean guards walked the perimeter of our fenced compound, but S/As were assigned to the gate 24 hours per day even though the gate closed at 10 PM. The main job was to check our jeeps in and out. I don’t recall any examples, but there must have been a few incidents where I would have had to call the office [nearest building to the gate] for assistance/decision.

    Otherwise, just regular duty. One job, on a rotation basis, was memorizing the combination to one safe, opening it the first thing in the morning, getting the combos from this safe for the other safes, and opening them. We caught hell once when everyone left the Quonset hut for the 10 AM coffee break w/o the last man out locking the safes.

    As an aside, a high school classmate [draftee] was an instructor of non-military subjects at White Sands Proving Grounds and had no KP or extra duties. For example, he taught classes to help soldiers get a GED. He had a Masters when drafted and later completed a PhD and became a college prof.

    Repeat:

    Some of the activity on gate duty was seeing the papa-san selling souvenirs just outside our gate, but I suspect his real job was to record the fake license numbers on our jeeps [actually the IDs were painted on the bumper] that frequently changed, so the fresh looking paint was a dead give away of a new number.

    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — April 27, 2021 @ 6:37 pm

  2889. I had KP once while a student early in the coordinator class. After graduation and being assigned to Troop Command I had KP and CQ a few times but then I was “volunteered” to Color Guard and all extra duty ended. We had to attend graduations so we got the rest of the day off. In the early days we only had a graduation about every 10 days but when the build up began there were sometimes 2 a week (there were 3 or 4 groups of honor guards) and we had too much work in our regular jobs so they ended the half days off. We still didn’t have KP or CQ.

    Comment by bill leach — April 27, 2021 @ 11:11 pm

  2890. I had a three week wait in late April/early May 1965 while waiting for the Agent Course to start. I pulled KP twice – once at the Officers Mess and once in the EM Mess. The rest of the time I was assigned to mow lawns (parade field), library, and the gym. Didn’t care for the KP assignments but the others were fun.

    I never had any extra duties while overseas except for Duty Agent at Frankfurt Station. Did that a few times but it was sort of fun and actually carried a loaded revolver for the first time. While assigned to the two Field Teams, no extra duty ever.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 28, 2021 @ 12:58 am

  2891. I just remembered, during my last year at Holabird (1968)
    , they brought in civilian kitchen help. No more KP for anyone assigned to permanent party. I’m not sure about the student mess.

    Comment by bill leach — April 28, 2021 @ 2:55 pm

  2892. Bill(2891),
    A dream come true, even if 12 years too late. permanent party pulled all the peon work along with our regular assignments. Still a neat place to be.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 28, 2021 @ 3:26 pm

  2893. Pulled KP once during Basic at Ft. Ord…never at Ft. Holabird or the Joint Refugee Operations Center in Berlin.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — April 28, 2021 @ 4:09 pm

  2894. Pulled a 23 hour KP at Fort Bragg for Basic and none at Fort Holabird for Agent or Photo Classes. Missed trip to the rifle range at Photo Class because I overslept. Was living at home at the time. Had to spend the whole day with the SGM and the CSM. Received no disciplinary action.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 28, 2021 @ 5:41 pm

  2895. Pulled KP in basic at Ft. Jackson and Q-Boat detail at Ft. Holabird and CQ at
    HHQ, 502nd M.I. In KOREA. That’s it! Very fortunate.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — April 28, 2021 @ 11:08 pm

  2896. Question?
    Seems most of our posters are EM(s)? Any officers here? Just wondering about the demographics on this site.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 29, 2021 @ 12:49 pm

  2897. RE #253
    see my post #253 that references my Fort Holabird duties! I kind of miss the sack time!

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 29, 2021 @ 1:58 pm

  2898. Pulled KP several times at Ft. Knox. Arrived at the ‘Bird and assigned to Casual Company just in time for the annual IG. Immediately got 2 consecutive days KP. Found out that if you played a musical instrument and got selected for the Post Band you got excused from KP.
    The band practiced playing and marching twice a week for a few hours after dinner and performed at graduations and retirements which were usually on a Saturday morning. Not a bad trade-off I thought at the time. I played sax and joined the band until graduation and never had to serve on KP again; although I did get sick of “The Colonel Bogey March.”
    In lieu of KP, I got assigned to the Post Laundry operating a roller ironer or to the Post Commissary as a stock boy, working the midnight to 8am shift. Hard to find civilians to do those jobs.
    In hindsight, I should have stayed with the KP.

    Comment by John Reed — May 2, 2021 @ 12:30 pm

  2899. John,

    Enjoyed your post. Did you spend your hole time at Holabird, when and what what else did you do and other than laundry? That damnable COLONEL BOGEY MARCH still rings in my ears every Friday at 4pm.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 3, 2021 @ 6:38 am

  2900. John,
    A a “w” after the “hole”. Wonder if it’s senility or a Freudian slip.
    Manny (again)

    Comment by manny adler — May 3, 2021 @ 6:40 am

  2901. Never pulled any kind of detail at Holabird while there from 7/65 to 9/65. At 502nd MI Seoul Korea only extra duty was as the Batt. Duty Agent several times a month, at night and an occasional weekend. This exempted you from any other detail, and mainly because ROK and civilian personnel did everything. During work days was assigned as the payroll guard when the Eagle landed for most of my 19 months there. Stay safe and stay healthy my friends.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — May 3, 2021 @ 6:13 pm

  2902. Re 2900. Manny, who needs a spell check program when I have you. Probably a mere typo or a Freudian?

    Comment by John C. Reed — May 4, 2021 @ 8:30 pm

  2903. More on Extra Duty. Trained as a 97B at the ‘Bird, then assigned to 111th HQ at Ft. McPherson in Atlanta, GA. Stayed in uniform for several months and worked as a Coordinator sending assignments out to the agents in the field. The duty desk had to be manned 24/7. During weekdays MI clerk/cadre covered the desk, but Coordinators had to cover the desk after hours and on weekends. There were 8 to 10 Coordinators and we served on a rotating basis.
    The drill – sit and watch a portable TV with rabbit ears (only two channels) and wind a time clock every four hours at about six locations in the HQ. Had to keep a log of everyone entering and leaving after-hours and answer the phone.
    The next day, we had the morning off so that we could sleep in, although it was not usually necessary because there was a cot that we could catch a cat-nap.
    If we did not want to pull the duty desk job, we could hire another Coordinator as a substitute. The going rate was $4.00 during weekdays (16 hrs.), $6.00 for Fridays (16 hrs.), $10.00 for Saturdays (20 hrs.) and $15.00 tp $20.00 for Sundays and holidays (24 hours). There was also a “relief man” who was assigned to come and give you one hour meal breaks at the mess hall (breakfast, lunch, and dinner).
    MI HQ was listed in the local Atlanta phone book, and we would get occasional calls that we had to log and take messages.
    Once I got a call from a person claiming to have seen a UFO. The SOP for UFO’s was: Step #1 – ask no questions, rather just take the name, address, and phone number and inform the caller that someone would return their call. Step #2 – place a watts call to Wright-Patterson AFB and pass on the contact information. Step #3 – log everything and close the book – say nothing to anyone. This was in 1965 – Operation Blue Book? I only had one UFO call – they were very rare.
    Overall, it was boring duty. I had not hit the dating scene yet, so I was able to pick up a lot of extra tax-free cash by substituting.
    So–in conclusion, once I left the ‘Bird, no more KP, Post Laundry, Post Commissary, or Post Band — just HQ duty desk.

    Comment by John C. Reed — May 4, 2021 @ 9:14 pm

  2904. John:

    Regarding posts 2899,2900 and 2902. I was correcting my own FUp’s. Maybe it’s Freudian sips as in coffee?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 5, 2021 @ 5:31 am

  2905. THE RATLINE by Phillipe Sands, just published, may be of interest. A great deal about the CIC.
    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — May 10, 2021 @ 3:17 pm

  2906. My wife and I took our first trip since the Covid shutdown of March 2020. We took a one weeks trip to Vegas from here in Honolulu. Good thing we received all that stimulus money as that was pretty much what we ended up losing. It felt good to travel somewhere other than the local grocery store.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — May 19, 2021 @ 1:39 pm

  2907. Wayne, good to hear you had a good trip. We have not ventured out yet, waiting for summer. Take care

    Comment by Richard Duarte — May 21, 2021 @ 9:50 am

  2908. Wayne….glad to hear your trip was safe and all went well. Similar to you, we haven’t been anywhere since April of last year. In two weeks, my wife, our daughters and I are driving from Germany, where we live, through Austria and Slovenia to the Adriatic in Croatia. Can’t wait!

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 23, 2021 @ 9:23 am

  2909. Both wife and I vaccinated with Moderna. Doing our first real trip to Western North Carolina next week from Florida. Along way will stop at Asheville NC.

    When I arrived at the Bird in July 68 was assigned to casual till my 97B course. Lucky to find the scheduler was a buddy from High School. No KP, ever and ended up with a decent job in the training publications office.

    Went on to Newark Field office, Reg 2 of 108th upon graduation as all our orders to SEA were cancelled following the Russian invasion of Prague. ETS from there in 71. Still in contact with some buddies from that assignment…all doing well with no virus problems.

    Today doing the Amelia Concours, best of those on east coast. City here has finally relented on outdoor large events.

    Comment by Vince Cavallo — May 23, 2021 @ 11:32 am

  2910. Every Memorial Day seems to be more solemn as the years pass by and my respect for the Americans who gave their lives for our great country increases tremendously.
    God bless America!

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — May 31, 2021 @ 6:47 am

  2911. To my fellow veterans:

    Please have a reflective and meaningful Memorial Day!

    Thank you for your service and your sacrifice!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 31, 2021 @ 7:36 am

  2912. Remembering all who gave the ultimate sacrifice for us. Take care everyone.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — May 31, 2021 @ 9:34 am

  2913. To 1LT Dennis Holm who gave his life in service to our country while serving in Vietnam and to others like Gary Powers and Teddy Ensminger who died while in service while serving on Okinawa. Thank you for your service. That goes to all of us Holabird veterans, Thank you for your service!!

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — May 31, 2021 @ 3:55 pm

  2914. Manny,
    In your post #2896: “Seems most of our posters are EM(s)? Any officers here? Just wondering about the demographics on this site.”

    I was an army aerial surveillance officer in Vietnam (1st Lieutenant). See post #2087.

    Comment by George Zervos — May 31, 2021 @ 4:04 pm

  2915. George,
    Thanks!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 1, 2021 @ 5:38 am

  2916. It’s been kind of quiet.Let me start a new thread.
    Does anybody remember the PX Coffee shop in the basement of the students barracks? I think it moved to the main PX building in early 1966. I was in S2 Troop Command next door. I remember watching in 1966 the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (The Fulbright Hearings) public hearings to question a range of experts on the progress of the Vietnam War on the TV in the coffee shop.

    Comment by bill leach — June 16, 2021 @ 8:31 pm

  2917. Hello: Yes spent a lot of time there, Dec 1965-March 1966, with Cliff Mower and Roger Seward. Bunked in first floor barracks.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — June 17, 2021 @ 9:26 am

  2918. Like you, I came from Ft. Dix basic to Holabird, but my bus dropped me and my duffle bag at the main Dundalk Ave. entrance. I hauled the bag up to the main building and was told how to keep going to the student barracks. I finally arrived dragging at the rear of the barracks where a bunch of students in fatigue pants and T-shirts were having a big keg party in the parking area. After being offered a couple cold ones, I knew I have arrived at the right place.

    Comment by Bruce Remick — June 22, 2021 @ 8:01 pm

  2919. Spent my morning coffee break at the coffee/donut shop on the 2nd floor of the Command HQ overlooking the alleyway between the CRF and some other warehouse. That warehouse was remodeled in 1966 and the G-2 office moved in there on the ground floor.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — June 26, 2021 @ 4:30 pm

  2920. I was at the ‘Bird as a student from Sep. ’64 to Feb. ’65 and I do not recall any coffee/donut shop in the student barracks. I returned to the ‘Bird in Apr. ’65 for three months as a 97B working in G2, so I was billeted in a 5-minute barracks next to the WAC barracks, so I had no contact with students and never heard of the donut shop.
    So – it either it was not there until after Jul ’65, or my memory has failed me once again.
    John

    Comment by Virginia — June 30, 2021 @ 1:04 pm

  2921. Happy Fourth, troops!

    Comment by Bill Schulz — July 2, 2021 @ 4:55 pm

  2922. Have a great 4th and be safe.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — July 4, 2021 @ 9:54 am

  2923. Happy July 4 from the last state in the union to still have most of the Covid restrictions still in place. Thank you all for your service then and now.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — July 4, 2021 @ 3:33 pm

  2924. RIP at the recent passing of Blaine B.Taylor, age 74

    What does Blaine have in common with us, besides his age, Blaine was a Vietnam War veteran, having served with the 199th Light Infantry Brigade as an MP. He was born in Washington, D.C.. And raised in Baltimore City. After receiving his G.E.D., he went on to graduate from Towson University with a B.A. In History. He was a prolific writer, especially about topics concerning WWI and WWII and Germany’s involvement, which includes 23 books. Some of his titles include the following:

    “Hitler’s Engineers, Master of the Third Reich”
    “Beer Hall Putsch to Blood Purge 1919 – 1934”
    “Kaiser Bill, A New Look at Germany’s Last Emperor Wilhelm II”

    He also wrote books on the assasinations of John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy. Finally, he authored a work on the birth of “The Volkswagen – the Affordable People’s Car”.

    He had quite a career as an editor, author, and even a political campaign writer. May he RIP.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 15, 2021 @ 3:40 pm

  2925. Thank you for sharing the information about Blaine Taylor, Phil.
    May he rest in peace.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 16, 2021 @ 4:09 pm

  2926. Former Fort Holabird Intelligence Analyst releases book on his experience in Vietnam

    Author: Joseph C. Maguire, Jr., Adjunct English Professor, Community College of Baltimore County, Dundalk, former Intelligence Analyst, U.S. Army Life Member, VFW

    Title: “A Contradiction of Terms” – A 25th Division Analyst’s Tour in Vietnam, April 1970 to March 1971

    Source: The Dundalk Eagle, July 29, 2021

    Summary: This is a story about the complexities of the Vietnam War and the discourse surrounding it. In it, Maguire writes about his experiences as an intelligence analyst where he would be forwarded reports, interrogations or other information that would often be contradicted soon afterwards.

    Paper Book Availability: Kindle or Amazon

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 30, 2021 @ 4:09 pm

  2927. Wow, my former roommate in Korea, Phil Ostrander, told me about this site. Reading so many comments really brings back memories. I was at the ‘Bird twice: first for 97D in 1965-66 and then for 97B in 1969. I later went HUMINT and retired. On my first stint I arrived early and the first sergeant put me in charge of a Leroy lettering kit where I made nametags for NCO rooms. He was constantly bumming cigarettes from me, and made me an acting jack. There were 16 students in the class including four WACs and he made me the class leader. The only names I recall are Glenn Gage and Terri Haavind. The 97B school was actually uneventful and the only classmate I recall was Ted Williams.

    Comment by Gary Johnson — August 4, 2021 @ 9:41 pm

  2928. Gary,

    Welcome Aboard!

    Gary and I, fellow agents, shared a hooch at Stonestown Compound, Co B, 502nd MI Bn, in the ROK in 1970 – 1971.

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — August 6, 2021 @ 9:16 pm

  2929. Welcome Gary!
    While you and Phil were in South Korea, I was a 96C2L29 in Berlin, Germany.
    Glad to have another Holabird brother with us!

    Comment by Gary Miller — August 8, 2021 @ 11:23 am

  2930. Gary Johnson,

    Some time ago, I went through this website and found that there were about 100 individuals who had left their email addresses along with their names. The other day, I checked my alpha list but I did not find anyone with the surnames of Gage, Haaavind, or Williams.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 8, 2021 @ 6:13 pm

  2931. Reading A DROP OF TREASON by Jonathan Stevenson (2021) a biography of one Philip Agee I wondered if any one out there heard of him. Would love to get your impressions of this book and this ex-intelligence officer. Also since it has been nearly a month since last posting (Phil O’s) thought I’d kick start something.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 6, 2021 @ 6:30 am

  2932. After this afternoons Orwellian broadcast on the national airwaves it is paramount that we pray for our Republic.
    May God bless all of my fellow Holabird brethren and I wish all the freedoms we enjoy are ultimately preserved.
    I hope you and your families enjoy peace and good health.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — September 9, 2021 @ 11:45 pm

  2933. Ed,
    I didn’t hear the broadcast so I am clueless but thankyou for the kind words and thoughts.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 11, 2021 @ 4:02 pm

  2934. Haven’t heard of Jonathan Stevenson, but I’ll do some research Manny!

    Comment by Gary Miller — September 12, 2021 @ 3:19 pm

  2935. Ref: 2933
    You are welcome,Manny.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — September 12, 2021 @ 6:28 pm

  2936. re: #2932
    Can someone fill me in on what the Orwellian broadcast of 9 September was about.

    Comment by jack widmaier — September 13, 2021 @ 6:59 pm

  2937. Jack….I think Edward may be referring to Biden’s vaccine mandate?

    Comment by Gary Miller — September 14, 2021 @ 6:48 am

  2938. Thanks, Gary. I thought we were staying away from pulling politics into this site. Oh well, it might liven up the site a bit while also destroying it.

    Comment by jack widmaier — September 15, 2021 @ 7:01 pm

  2939. “The National Museum of the United States Army is now open to visitors! Admission is free and a timed-entry ticket is required. Make sure you receive confirmation of your selected date and time before making travel plans.”
    Get your tickets at theNMUSA.org

    “Plan…and learn more about all of the Museum’s events at theNMUSA.org/events ”

    Also – The Army Historical Foundation, 1775 Liberty Drive, Suite 400, Fort Belvoir, VA 22060
    armyhistory.org 1-800-506-2672

    Comment by bernie thielen — September 15, 2021 @ 8:01 pm

  2940. I agree with Jack that there should be no politics on this site. What does politics have to do with Fort Holabird or MI?

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — September 16, 2021 @ 7:32 pm

  2941. Phil
    Politics should have nothing to do with Fort Holabird or MI, but I wonder how many people in the past were denied clearances they deserved because the individual conducting the background check didn’t like the individual’s political views. I don’t even want to think how often that happens in these days. I can’t speculate on how often it happened. I thought I would eventually be doing background checks when I arrived at The Bird, but i was offered and chose a different aspect of the intelligence world. Im glad I did.

    Comment by jack widmaier — September 16, 2021 @ 8:00 pm

  2942. Jack,

    I understand your concern about past practices that may have ocurred. However, I still think that we can agree that this forum should not be used as a platform for someone to air thei political views.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 16, 2021 @ 10:28 pm

  2943. Jack (Post 2938):
    Your 2nd sentence was dead on and encapsulates it all. I would ad religion also as a divider. As for your post 2941, so what was that “different aspect” offered and chosen?
    Manny P.S. Still amazed at the level of intelligence in evidence on this site! No “dumb soldiers” reporting for duty here sir”!

    Comment by manny adler — September 17, 2021 @ 5:46 am

  2944. Hello all,
    I have enjoyed checking in on this site for the great memories. I also agree that politics and religion should not be in our posts. I don’t know about you but I have lost several friendships this last year among long time colleagues, reflecting what is going on in our great county. Lets enjoy the time we have left.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — September 17, 2021 @ 10:19 am

  2945. Hello all,
    I have enjoyed checking in on this site for the great memories. I also agree that politics and religion should not be in our posts. I don’t know about you but I have lost several friendships this last year among long time colleagues, reflecting what is going on in our great country. Lets enjoy the time we have left.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — September 17, 2021 @ 10:21 am

  2946. Hi Ricard,

    I agree with you also about no politics on this site. I have been fortunate that I have not lost any friends from the other side of the political spectrum. God bless them and keep them!

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — September 17, 2021 @ 2:19 pm

  2947. Richard,

    Sorry, but I misspelled your first name. You can see that spelling is not my forte’, nor is typing!

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — September 17, 2021 @ 2:21 pm

  2948. I don’t know about other times but I was assigned to USAINTS S2 Troop Command Fort Holabird from October 1965 – June 1968. In my near 3 years in that office, we granted or validated all security clearances for permanent party and students assigned to the school.
    The few (and it was few) clearances that were denied were for clear violations of AR 604-5. It wasn’t a simple process. It is too long to go into on this site but the subject had a chance to defend him or her self. It wasn’t just a simple “we don’t like this person or their views”. They also had a chance to appeal to the Pentagon. The few that were denied never got overturned.

    Comment by Bill Leach Jr — September 17, 2021 @ 9:45 pm

  2949. #2948
    Thanks Bill. That’s good info that I have always wanted to know.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — September 17, 2021 @ 10:19 pm

  2950. More on #2948
    Did anyone flunk out of your S/A class? We thought none in our class did. However, with hindsight…
    One student didn’t finish. The scuttlebutt was that he spoke fluent Italian. His assignment was to enroll in an Italian university in Rome at the beginning of the term, so had to leave early.
    Another student also left early. I heard that he was an engineer and needed for an assignment. Much later a fellow student told me that he heard the student left due to jaundice.
    A fellow student finished the training, but didn’t receive a TS clearance because he had been a Fulbright scholar in England and his activities there couldn’t be verified. Wouldn’t he have been dismissed before the end of class?

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — September 18, 2021 @ 4:30 pm

  2951. Bernie, I guess you could say that I flunked out of the Agent Course. I was doing well in the class until the second day of the last week of the course. I woke up very sick with fever and some sort of GI illness but went to class anyway. After nearly passing out in class I was taken to the Dispensary. I was given fluids via IV, medication, and confined to quarters for the rest of the week.

    At the end of the week I was told that I was not going to graduate with my class. Instead, I was offered to start with a new Agent class which would start is three weeks (Recycle) or I could start with a new Coordinator class on the next Monday.

    I wanted to get out of Holabird as quickly as possible, so I chose the Coordinator class. I was made the Group Leader of that Class and at graduation, received a promotion and a Letter of Commendation from the Company Commander. I was also offered the assignment of my choice.

    No regrets at not having chosen the new Agent course because I had a terrific assignment in Germany while assigned to a collection unit. I wore civvies the entire time, made E-5 in 24 months, and was assigned to three different Field Teams (different cities) during my overseas tour.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — September 18, 2021 @ 8:42 pm

  2952. Bernie, when a student didn’t have the required security clearance because of some delay in the investigation, we could grant “immediate access” so they could start classes. It would only cover confidential info. The course would not start “secret” classes for the first few weeks. Once they started to teach “secret” classes we would have to pull the students out if they still didn’t have their Secret clearance yet.
    It was a lot of extra work and the pentagon wasn’t happy with it but it was necessary to keep up the flow of students. We had to clear them by phone every week with Washington.
    I don’t remember any of the students from the SA or Coordinator (TS Clearance) classes getting immediate access but I could be wrong. After 53 years, I’m surprised I remember any of it.

    Comment by bill leach jr — September 18, 2021 @ 10:57 pm

  2953. Bernie,

    We had one fellow from Georgia who had fallen behind the rest of us as my Agent class progressed toward graduation. Fortunately, several of his bunk-mates helped him study and he did graduate with the class. All 40 of us were successful. Sometimes, I thought that I was at a disadvantage because I was one of a very few in the class who did not possess an undergraduate degree. I soon learned that discipline and motivation on my part can make the difference in obtaining one’s goals in life.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 19, 2021 @ 9:47 am

  2954. Why are my posts always blocked? I tried to answer Manny’s question and ask Tony a question, but, no luck. if I write a long post (several paragraphs) it never goes through. I give up for now.

    Comment by jwidphoto@comcast.net — September 20, 2021 @ 8:09 pm

  2955. Tried to respond, but no luck. Blocked.

    Comment by jack widmaier — September 20, 2021 @ 8:12 pm

  2956. Jack

    I will check it out with Craig Sprout.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 21, 2021 @ 10:44 am

  2957. Jack,

    See above postings. If you have any further problems, please contact Crag Sprout directly at csprout@gmail.com

    Attention MI Guys and Gals:

    If you ever have problems, contact Craig Sprout directly at the above email. He is our website troubleshooter.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 21, 2021 @ 12:39 pm

  2958. There was some discussion earlier about academic failures. I was in class 66-B-24 that started right after the Memorial Day weekend. I seem to recall that we had either 48 or 50 students to start with. There were 2 guys who became academic failures. One of them was a first-termer from California and the other had some service time because he was already a PFC when class started. The California guy did not care about his class standing so no one tried to assist him. On the other hand, some tried to assist the PFC, but the additional effort did not help him in the end.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — September 22, 2021 @ 4:34 pm

  2959. In our Coordinator Class ~ Nov 1967 we had a Sargent who became ranking class leader. He was removed from class after about the 4th or 5th week with no explanation. We figured either he did not pass the background check, did something wrong, or the favorite idea was that he was a plant checking out our class for bad apples. Maybe Bill Leach will remember after 53 years what happened??

    Comment by daryl Petrarca — September 29, 2021 @ 6:35 pm

  2960. Hi Daryl, sorry, I don’t remember that one. After 4-5 weeks, it was probably something in his background that finally caught up with him. I doubt he was a “plant”. All of the classes had plenty of snitches. Everybody thought everybody was a spy! 😉

    Comment by bill leach jr — September 29, 2021 @ 8:24 pm

  2961. I recall in my Agent Class in 1969 that we had an SFC that was replaced by a staff sergeant as group leader because the SSG was doing most of the work in running the class. The SSG was a former SF soldier.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 1, 2021 @ 4:05 pm

  2962. Ma Klecka taught typing as one of our Holabird classes. In Korea, 1956-7, we typed our own reports. I suppose that SAs doing BIs in the outlying regions of the States didn’t have clerical help. Perhaps if they were stationed on base or in a city, they did have clerical help. Generally, did SAs type their own reports?

    Comment by bernie thielen — October 2, 2021 @ 9:50 pm

  2963. Hi Bernie,

    I was not involved in any SI’s when I was assigned to the Ft. Bragg NC Field Office, only BI’s. While stationed in Korea, the ROK translators typed all of the FIIR’s. Reason being was that most of us agents assigned to military duty in Korea had no formal training in the Korean Language. That was in 1970 – 1971. During my time there, I did come into contact with only a few agents who graduated from the DLI in Monterey, CA, however, they still did not type their own reports.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 3, 2021 @ 3:16 pm

  2964. Hello:
    I was assigned to LA Field Office, 115th MI Gp from March 1965 to March 1966. I worked regular and sensitive PSI’s and we did all of own typing. Messages were sent on TWX to Gp by a clerk. On Okinawa, I worked on checking air and ship entry and later CI shop with a few reports.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — October 4, 2021 @ 11:39 am

  2965. When I was with the 524th MI in Vietnam, the final typing was done by the FO coordinator. The agents would do drafts and submit them for approval before final typing. With the Naha FO, 526th MI on Okinawa, the field agents did draft reports. Drafts were reviewed and approved by FO commanders who submitted them to HQ for final typing. I seem to recall that agent reports were submitted on DA Form 541.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — October 4, 2021 @ 4:46 pm

  2966. When I was assigned to Frankfurt Station, on loan to the 513th MI Gp, the A/Hs would write their draft reports. The reports were final typed by a civilian female. Frankfurt Station was a collection unit.

    Later, I returned to the 531st MI Co (Collection) and assigned to a Field Team. The A/Hs typed their draft Operation Plans, Contact Reports, and Intelligence Information Reports, and submitted them to our OIC. After they were approved, I would type the final reports. I was the Coordinator for the Five man Team.

    The IIRs were horrible to type – the form was a 8-1/2 by 14 inch and had a zillion carbon copies. No errors/mistakes were allowed!

    Interestingly, at the next Field Team, the AHs typed their own reports which gave me a lot of free time!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — October 4, 2021 @ 11:00 pm

  2967. Gee, sounds like “clerk-typist school”!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 5, 2021 @ 5:20 am

  2968. Manny, I think you’re right. The thing is, we all had to type a minimum of 35 WPM with no errors in Klecka’s class or we wouldn’t graduate. That included Coordinators, Agents, and AHs. I barely passed her class. I typed faster that our OIC and the the 3 AHs, at the one Field Team. They made so many mistakes so it’s a good thing that I was there for them.

    Also, every team that I was assigned I was also the TS Control Person which helped keep me busy because every single thing we did was TS, Secret, or NATO Secret. I also had Codeword and Cofram clearances.

    At the two five man Field Teams that I worked, most of the filing was done by the OIC rather than myself. He and I both assisted the AHs during operations assisting as a “back up person” and with counter surviellance.

    I thoroughly enjoyed the work!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — October 5, 2021 @ 9:05 pm

  2969. This site needs a glossary of acronyms. Honestly!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 6, 2021 @ 4:32 pm

  2970. Manny,
    First attempt by a guy that’s forgot much.
    Bernie

    AH
    A/H
    BI – background investigation
    CI – counterintelligence
    DA
    DLI
    FIIR
    FO
    HQ – Headquarters
    MI – Military Intelligence
    OIC – Officer In Charge
    PSI
    SA
    SF
    SFC – sergeant first class
    SSG
    SI
    TS – Top Secret
    TWX
    wpm – words per minute

    Comment by bernard thielen — October 6, 2021 @ 5:45 pm

  2971. Many,

    Let me take a “stab” at several of these as follows:

    AH – Agent Handler

    BI – Background Investigation

    DLUI – Defense Language Institute

    FIIR – Field Intelligence Information Report

    OIC – Officer in Charge

    SA – Special Agent

    SF – Special Forces

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 6, 2021 @ 5:49 pm

  2972. Manny – Sorry about the misspelling of your name!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 6, 2021 @ 5:51 pm

  2973. Officer / Agent Handler) I also had Klecka’s typing class, but we did not have to pass a wpm test. If i had to, i would have failed. As soon as I was assigned to my work site, I returned to “hunt and peck” typing. However, I did have to type all of my reports myself (mostly TS orS) and “letter perfect” which is required of all S and TS material. In theory, no type overs, erasures or white outs. I was a lousy typist (still am), but now I type on a computer, so corrections are easy. Lets just say, I became very good at erasures and type overs.
    I like the idea of a glossary of acronyms. You CI guys love them.

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 6, 2021 @ 7:54 pm

  2974. Above was to say Case Officer / Agent Handler. Same thing, different titles.

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 6, 2021 @ 7:57 pm

  2975. I was NOT an officer. As they say: “I worked for a living”. I did turn down two direct commissions, however. I asked the CO who made the offers if I could stay in my job if I accepted and he said no. So I thanked him for the offer, shook his hand and returned to my job. Officers didn’t get to actually do the agent handler job. They worked in the Army.

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 6, 2021 @ 8:06 pm

  2976. When I attended Holabird, the term Case Officer and Agent Handler meant the same thing. It did not matter what the person’s rank was. But when I got to Germany and began working, both the 513th MI Gp and the 531st MI Co, used the term Agent Handler which we abbeviated with “AH”or “A/H”.

    Laterm in police work, when we called someone an AH, he was an asshole. So that took me some time to adjust to.

    In our unit, Officers & Warrant Officers did AH work just like the Enlisted Agent Handlers. The OIC of the Field Teams were Captains.

    I like the idea of a glossary of acronyms. Although most of my training at the Bird was CI stuff, I ended up working Collection (Area Studies) which had its own terms/acronyms & forms. Over time, I forgot CI terms so at times I don’t know what someone is talking about in their comments here.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — October 6, 2021 @ 9:48 pm

  2977. I do not remember a word per minute in Klecka’s class but Could easly forget that at my age. . I do remember that in Korea June 66 to July 67 as a 97B40 we typed all of our reports and then coming back to Kalamazoo, MI 60 miles from where I enlisted we typed all of our own reports.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — October 6, 2021 @ 10:49 pm

  2978. Thanks, one and all. You guys (no gals responded so I’m in the P.C. zone, new glossary term on site,i.e., “politically correct”) are great, honest! Manny
    p.s. Phil O. Hell, I didn’t even notice, but Miss Klecka, may she rest in peace, would have.

    Comment by manny adler — October 7, 2021 @ 5:38 am

  2979. Us poor 96Cs had to type our own reports at JROC (Joint Refugee Operations Center) in Berlin. Luckily, my father demanded I take a typing class in the 10th grade at Paris American High School when he was stationed there.

    Comment by Gary Miller — October 8, 2021 @ 3:56 pm

  2980. Found this site once again after having lost it for over a year I think-good to be back.

    Comment by John Washington — October 8, 2021 @ 6:04 pm

  2981. What are all the strange (at least to me) symbols shown throughout?

    Comment by John Washington — October 8, 2021 @ 6:11 pm

  2982. Re #2979 – Gary, didn’t you have to take the typing class at Holabird? I know that when I went through the 97B and 97D courses, I had to take the course from Ms. Klecka. Fortunately, I had taken a basic typing class during my high school senior year and that sure helped.

    Maybe only the students in the Intelligence Corps courses had to take the typing course. I had two friends in the Analyst Course and they not take the typing course either.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — October 8, 2021 @ 6:25 pm

  2983. Re #2982
    Tony….no, I didn’t have to take a typing class as part of the Interrogator’s course, but I did have to take a typing test upon arrival at Ft. Holabird, which I luckily passed!

    Comment by Gary Miller — October 8, 2021 @ 8:01 pm

  2984. Gary, you had a great assignment in Berlin. There was a JROC team at Camp King in Oberursel (just outside of Frankfurt). Our HQs was located there too. They provided us with some good leads. What years were you there?

    I was in Germany from Nov 65 thru Jan 68. First in Frankfurt then Nurnberg and finished up in Kassel.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — October 8, 2021 @ 11:13 pm

  2985. Tony….you are absolutely right about the JROC assignment. I can’t think of a better one. Between JROC (B) and the Notaufnahmelager Marienfelde, I spent a total of 7 years as an interrogator in Berlin, from early 1969 to 1976 and loved every minute of it. I still live in Germany and Berlin is still my favorite city on the planet!

    Comment by Gary Miller — October 9, 2021 @ 2:01 pm

  2986. Our class favorite was an almost unanimous fnu lnu (first name unknown, last name unknown). I do not recall seeing those initials used until I saw some surveillance reports that my old Army Reserve unit had compiled regarding anti-war activities observed in the Fort DeRussy area in Waikiki during the 1960s-early 1970s. The person who wrote the reports must have had some sort of intel background.

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — October 9, 2021 @ 2:17 pm

  2987. Wayne – Of course the person who wrote the reports had an intel background. He / she would have been a graduate of the Bird counter intelligence class. During the Vietnam war protests, Army Intelligence personnel were collecting photos and information on protesters. I believe this was actually illegal since the US Army is not to engage in activities against US citizens. At least some of the records were kept at the Bird.

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 21, 2021 @ 7:30 pm

  2988. Wayne – Of course the person who wrote the reports had an intel background. He / she would have been a graduate of the Bird counter intelligence class. During the Vietnam war protests, Army Intelligence personnel were collecting photos and information on protesters. I believe this was actually illegal since the US Army is not to engage in activities against US citizens. At least some of the records were kept at the Bird.

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 21, 2021 @ 7:31 pm

  2989. Jack,

    You are correct it was illegal and was investigated by the Church committee (see CONTELPRO).

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 22, 2021 @ 5:37 am

  2990. Thanks, Manny.
    I tried a longer message about my feelings upon finding out that Army Intelligence was spying on US citizens and its influence on why I bailed on the Counter Intelligence course and switched to the Area Intelligence course. If I was going to spy, it would be on foreign governments and not US Citizens.

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 25, 2021 @ 7:31 pm

  2991. When I enlisted in early 1965, I was not offered a choice of which Intelligence Corps course I would be enrolled in. I was only told that I was “accepted” for training in the Intelligence Corps. Near the end of my Basic Combat Training period, most of us received orders for our AIT and mine only showed, “Classified Training” at Ft Holabird, MD.

    It wasn’t until I was at Holabird that I was told which course I would be attending. I was still 20 years old when I started the CI Agent course but turned 21 near the end of it. Due to illness during the last week of training, I was unable to complete the course. I was offered to start in the another Agent course or the Coordinator course which would start in a few days – I chose the Coordinator course.

    Imagine my surprise when I was also given a choice of either being assigned to a CI unit or a Collection (Area Studies) unit! I chose the Collection unit and to this day, I am very happy about that choice.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — October 25, 2021 @ 9:37 pm

  2992. Good choice, Tony. Where were you assigned after school?

    Comment by jack widmaier — October 26, 2021 @ 8:08 pm

  2993. Jack, I was assigned to the 531st MI Company (under the 513th MI Gp and 66th MI Gp) in West Germany. My first assignment was at Frankfurt Station. Then on to Nurnberg Field Team and then Kassel Field Team. All great assignments that had me in civilian clothing the entire time with no Alerts or Inspections. And living mostly in safe houses and never in barracks or military housing.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — October 27, 2021 @ 12:37 am

  2994. I see a lot of posts from people who served in Germany and Korea, but not so much from people who served in Vietnam. I would be interested in hearing the experiences of Holabird alumni who performed intelligence duties in Vietnam. My experience is in post #2087.

    Comment by George Zervos — October 27, 2021 @ 2:15 pm

  2995. In reading The Graybeards [Sept.-Oct. 2021 magazine of the Korea War Veterans Association], one reader described how he mistakenly spent a few hours in “jail” due to one of those army things.

    Has anyone spent time in army custody [Vietnam?] or have an interaction with the military police which was just one of those army things?

    I lost my army driver’s license since I stopped too far back of the stop sign on the Seoul Main Post. The MPs were too far away to see that I stopped, but I still got a citation. I only lost my license for a day rather than the usual week because of our association with the Provost Marshal. My non-CIC friends were amazed [got my license back the next day] although I never explained my MOS, assignment, or anything to them.

    I mentioned in an earlier post that the Korean MPs patted me down the first day of a Korean court martial, but I was the only one not patted down in future attendances after they realized who I represented.

    Also, a fellow CICer got a Form 4 [“to permanently remain in his personnel file”] from the MPs for walking in Seattle with his hands in his uniform pockets. The other two of us were in civvies. We were at Fort Lewis [weekend pass], waiting for a ship to Japan and then a plane flight to Korea.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 2, 2021 @ 9:38 pm

  2996. Bernie,

    Such a bad boy!

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 3, 2021 @ 5:38 am

  2997. Happy Veteran’s Day to all, still standing, be safe.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 11, 2021 @ 10:36 am

  2998. Hand Salute to all!

    Comment by jack widmaier — November 11, 2021 @ 8:32 pm

  2999. Happy Veterans Day to all who served and sacrificed for the good of our nation! Toujours Avant!

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — November 11, 2021 @ 9:13 pm

  3000. For the Akemoto men, Chsrles (1944-1974), Wayne (1966-1997), Ronald (1977-2011), For my Mom Teruko (1944-74, 1966-1997.1977-2011), Happy Veteran’s Day to us all!!!!

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — November 11, 2021 @ 9:42 pm

  3001. All,

    Bittersweet day of commemoration but thankful to all of you and yours and vets and those currently serving!

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 12, 2021 @ 4:59 pm

  3002. Today’s Army : Soldier’s View 25 Years Ago vs. Today (Dundalk Eagle 11/11/2021).

    Basic Training has been extended from 8 weeks to 10 weeks for two purposes. One additional week includes FTX to simulate living and working conditions in a combat zone in the field on a FOB. The second week has been added for Sexual Harassment/Assault Response Prevention (SHARP) and Equal Opportunity
    (EO) training.

    The Overseas Patch/Combat Patch, which was worn on the right sleeve of the green Class A uniform is no longer a patch, but a pin worn over the right front pocket of the new blue Army Service Uniform (ASU). The new uniform also includes a black wool beret.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 14, 2021 @ 2:55 pm

  3003. Happy Thanksgiving to all my Holabird brethren and all patriotic Americans!

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 24, 2021 @ 9:23 pm

  3004. Thank you Ed and the same to you and yours!

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 26, 2021 @ 3:05 pm

  3005. Merry Xmas and happy and safe holidays to all. I spent Xmas of 1965 with a special friend at the Lord Baltimore Hotel. Great memories 97B-13-66.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 24, 2021 @ 10:44 am

  3006. Richard,

    Thank you for starting a new thread for us on this most special holiday!
    I spent Chistmas of 1970 with my yobo in Chang dong-ni, the ville immediately outside of the former Camp Ames, ROK.
    This year, the holiday will be with my wife and two grown sons in Catonsville, MD (30 minutes drive from the former Fort Holabird main gate).

    Attn: Fort Holabird Veterans! Please continue Richard’s posting with your own experiences now and then or either as you wish?

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 24, 2021 @ 4:20 pm

  3007. Pulled KP every Christmas.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 24, 2021 @ 6:00 pm

  3008. In 1965, I spent my first Army Christmas in Frankfurt. Our Ops Sgt, Darryl Yocum, was kind enough to invite me and another young, single guy to spend the day with him and his wonderful family. It was our first time away from home.

    The following year, I was assigned to Nurnberg and one of our 97Cs, Tom Taylor, invited me to spend the day with his family. Great folks.

    And my last Army Christmas was in Kassel, Germany, which I got to spend with a wonderful German couple who owned a Gasthaus. They had me over to enjoy the day with their family.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — December 24, 2021 @ 6:42 pm

  3009. I spent 3 Christmas’s in the army 65-66-67 all at Fort Holabird I was fortunate to get leave all three years and got to go home to Boston.

    Comment by bill leach jr — December 24, 2021 @ 9:23 pm

  3010. Bill (3009):

    Why I volunteered for Christmas KP. My pleasure!
    Manny

    P.S. Though ten years earlier.

    Comment by manny adler — December 25, 2021 @ 7:23 am

  3011. Merry Christmas everybody. Spent Christmas of 68 in Saigon. I’m spending this Christmas in the hospital with pneumonia!
    The best to all my Holabird brethren.

    Comment by Edward w Hotchkiss — December 25, 2021 @ 4:29 pm

  3012. Merry Christmas to all! Spent the Christmas of 68 in Saigon. Today I’m in the hospital with pneumonia!
    The best to all my Holabird Brethren!

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — December 25, 2021 @ 4:38 pm

  3013. Ed,

    Please feel better soon and keep us apprised of your progress?

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

    Phil

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — December 25, 2021 @ 10:45 pm

  3014. 3011. Ed, feel better. Can’t keep a good man down!

    Comment by bill leach jr — December 25, 2021 @ 10:52 pm

  3015. Hope you feel better Ed. Been awhile since I posted anything. In 1978 with the Hong Kong flu I pulled KP on Christmas Day at the 14th MI BN Fort Bragg. I was a Corporal then.
    Been busy building a cottage on the Maine coast the last two years and just trying to get used to not being able to do things that I did 10 years ago. We still have our year around home in New Jersey.
    I have comments on some of the above subjects over the past year and will post next year.
    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
    Jim Wiles

    Comment by Jim Wiles — December 26, 2021 @ 11:54 am

  3016. Ed, I hope you feel better real soon and get discharged from the hospital soon. And take care of yourself when you do get home – it takes a while to get your strength back. Keep us posted!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — December 26, 2021 @ 9:27 pm

  3017. HI everyone! Please take a read of my book, On Hamburg Station, a partially fictionalized account of my time in Army Intelligence and the 513th INTC in Bremerhaven & Hamburg, Germany. All of the handlers were very real, and I was the Spencer character. The only reason I say the book is historical fiction is to avoid suits and the need for having lawyers on retainer. ALL of the operations covered were absolutely real with real people as depicted. I also cover Holabird as it was in the early 1960s.

    Dave Dougherty

    Comment by Dave Dougherty — December 27, 2021 @ 12:59 pm

  3018. Ed…..hope you’re feeling a whole lot better today and that you’ll be heading home soon, if you aren’t already there.
    I spent every Christmas between 1970 and 1977 in Berlin, Germany as a 96C2l29 with JROC (Joint Refugee Operations Center).

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 27, 2021 @ 4:34 pm

  3019. A hearty thank-you to my Holabird friends for encouraging me to wellnesss after my 5 day stay in the hospital for covid pneumonia.
    Got out last night after grueling testing and iv’s coming into both arms.
    Great treatment looking after spiking heartbeat in addition to other maladies.
    Well, my oxygen is good and the next days will be follow up doctor visits to get fine tuned.
    Thank-you again for your welcoming concern!
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — December 29, 2021 @ 9:30 pm

  3020. Ed,

    Welcome back!

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 30, 2021 @ 6:47 am

  3021. Ed,

    I second Manny’s Welcome Back! Stay healthy!

    Best always,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 30, 2021 @ 11:13 am

  3022. Ed, great news! Good start to the new year.
    Take care.

    Comment by Bill Leach Jr — December 30, 2021 @ 9:58 pm

  3023. Hello: Great news Ed, and a wish to everyone for a safe and HappY New Year! Take care

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 31, 2021 @ 11:02 am

  3024. Happy New Year to all my Fort Holabird Brethern!

    Hunker down for at least another month if you can to avoid the current Covid wave!

    Sadly, Betty White died today at age 99 and I hope we all get to the same age!

    Best always,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 31, 2021 @ 6:14 pm

  3025. To Glade Presnal at item 2125 above. I discovered this site a few days ago and have to be careful not to spend too much time on it at one sitting
    I have been watching for references to the 66th and 513th so I read yours with interest.
    I cannot add anything useful re. your search for people but we must have passed each other many times: I graduated Holabird as a 97B4L29 in August 1968. As an enlisted bachelor I lived in the barracks that I guess is often referred to as the brick building in a lot of the reminiscences on this site.
    I was then assigned to the 513th, arriving late August or more likely early September. Was a clerk in S2. Worked part-time in the library. Was joined by my new bride and rented a room on the economy a short distance towards the Taunus range.
    After moving to Munich, continued to clerk in S2, until I noticed that the agents that I was creating files on who had a German rating really could not speak German. I could, having studied a full year at the U of Hamburg from 1966 to 1967. After some effort, I got myself transferred to Munich Station across the street where I essentially replaced our two German nationals leg men both of whom retired at the same time.
    There’s more but for the moment, I need to sign off and call a plumber. I am told so by that same wife – of 53 years.
    Jim

    Comment by James F Forslund — January 3, 2022 @ 11:23 am

  3026. Jim,

    Very interesting. I was/am bi-lingual; German/English (US version). Since nobody asked I stayed at Holabird. Brilliant Army placements. Did hold a TS clearance so that was not an issue. Is not to question why,etc.,etc….

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 4, 2022 @ 6:33 am

  3027. Folks:

    New book by one Jerome Charyn, SERGEANT SALINGER. Easy read about J.D. Salinger (a novel) and his service in the CIC. Would love your feedback. I’ll keep my opinion to myself until I see what you folks feel after you have read it/or not.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 6, 2022 @ 4:56 pm

  3028. At Holibird 7/1957 to 6/1959, including tdy at pentagon cleaning out ts files for acsi. Married during this time and wife subsequently employed at teacher in dundalk elementry school. minimum cs like friday pm parades for general prather. he, by the way, lead the charge to save bmi which was then known as friendship airport.

    Good memories from a draftee who learned that “we’re so important, we can swagger. we know things to make you stagger. boo, boo baby. i’m a spy”

    Comment by jim — January 20, 2022 @ 6:32 pm

  3029. Just ordered the book SERGEANT SALINGER. Will let you know how it reads.
    Jim Wiles

    Comment by Jim Wiles — January 28, 2022 @ 6:09 pm

  3030. Jim (#3028),

    What is “acsi”? Love these acronyms.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 31, 2022 @ 6:16 pm

  3031. Manny, when I was in MI (65-68), ACSI stood for Assistant Chief for Intelligence, which was one of the top positions. The other one was DCSI (Deputy Chief for Intelligence). But I don’t remember which was the higher ranking of the two.

    Hopefully, one of our members with a better memory than mine can help us out.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — January 31, 2022 @ 9:40 pm

  3032. Many thanks Tony!

    Comment by manny adler — February 1, 2022 @ 6:39 am

  3033. A gentleman on the Ft. Holabird Facebook page just posted that Wayne Akemoto passed away on 2nd December in Hawaii. His last post here was on 11 November, 2021.
    Rest in peace Wayne.

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 3, 2022 @ 7:17 pm

  3034. Gary, Thanks for sharing your posting about Wayne Akemoto. May he rest in peace and may his memory be a blessing! Please see Steve Summers message on the Fort Holabird Alumni Facebook Website listed below:

    From notifications
    Steve Summers:

    I found out today that Wayne Akemoto passed on Dec. 2, 2021. Wayne was a retired investigator for the State of Hawaii. I knew him on Okinawa in the late 60s. He was a 97B and was assigned to the Naha Field Office, part of the 526th MI Det.
    I believe he had been in the 525th MI Group in Vietnam prior to coming to Okinawa. His father, CW3 Charlie Akemoto was assigned to the 526th during the same time I was there and I assume that is how and why Wayne was transferred to the 526th after his tour in VN.
    Somewhere along the line, I hooked up with Wayne on Facebook and I know after being discharged from active duty, he joined the USAR and was then a career reservist retiring as a Sergeant Major.
    I found his death notice in the Honolulu Star Advertiser online website. Here is what was posted:
    Wayne Akio Akemoto 75, of Honolulu, died in Honolulu on December 2, 2021. He was born in Puunene, HI. Visitation: 10:00 AM; Services: 11:00 AM on Monday, January 10, 2022 at Hosoi Garden Mortuary.

    Comment by Philip Ostrander — February 3, 2022 @ 10:43 pm

  3035. Compleated the agent course in early 1957. Assigned to the “duce” as head of the classified library. Lt/Col Fred Eggers was CO. Received direct commission in 1958. Transferred to USN as Intel Officer for VP sqdn. Retired after 30 years as CDR. Spent all my service time in one form of intel or another but it all began at the “bird”.
    CDR Bob Becker USN (Ret)

    Comment by Robert E. Becker, Jr. — February 4, 2022 @ 4:55 am

  3036. TAPS Wayne. We are going to miss you. Rest.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 4, 2022 @ 7:18 am

  3037. Hello:
    I also served with Wayne and his dad with the 526th on Okinawa, May 1967 to August 1968. They were both men of high integrity and always willing to share their friendship with everyone. They served our country with loyalty and honor and will be missed. I hope to stop by the Punchbowl to pay my respects, till we meet again, Rest in Peace.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 4, 2022 @ 11:09 am

  3038. R.I.P. Wayne, you will be missed.
    Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — February 6, 2022 @ 9:14 pm

  3039. Well, my MI friends, I don’t know about you all but I’ve had some flashbacks during this Russian-Ukraine crisis.

    I was stationed in West Germany in the mid to late 60s, working in a covert intelligence collection unit.

    I’m sure that the frontline troops (Infantry, Armor, and Arty unit guys) are really thinking about their days on the border and having to be ready to meet the onslaught of Commie troops coming at them back then.

    Anyone else having similar thoughts?

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 24, 2022 @ 12:22 am

  3040. One has to wonder…will Poland and the Baltic Republics be next? Will we live to see it?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 24, 2022 @ 1:07 pm

  3041. Tony(3039)<

    Good point, really. But would not intel agents be in danger if captured, being considered spies?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 24, 2022 @ 3:57 pm

  3042. Reference 3039
    Frontline US soldiers stationed in the path thru the Fulda Gap had an excuse to drink another beer.
    By the mid and late 1960s, Germany at least had an air defense system. See GEADGE [412L], IPG air defense, and NADGE.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 24, 2022 @ 7:43 pm

  3043. Re# 3041 – Manny, sometimes I thought about that when I was there. All of us in our five man Field Teams were in civilian clothing and didn’t have ready access to our uniforms. We had the thermite grenades to set on top of our file cabinets to destroy our classified documents and handguns to defend ourselves with. We were issued one radio that could transmit messages at high speed. We would have been screwed, for sure unless we could link up with a regular or CI unit if they would accept us. I don’t remember if there was something else that would help us if the balloon had gone up.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 24, 2022 @ 10:02 pm

  3044. re: Manny #3041

    Yes, if captured and in civilian clothes and under a civilian cover, you could and probably would, after being asked a few questions in a persuasive manner, be shot. However, we were in Intelligence and would hopefully have some advance notice from our fellow intelligence personnel and would get the hell away before the bad guys arrived.

    Which brings up a funny story. When I was in the ROK in the late 60s, I didn’t even own a uniform. I arrived in civilian clothes and left 20 months late in civilian clothes.

    Back when the Korean War began and things went sour when the Chinese Army joined the fight, The US troops retreated south across the only bridge that crossed the Han River. Once across, the bridge was blown, leaving no way to get south.

    Back to my situation. I worked south of the Han River with a small group of people. On one occasion, there was a full exercise to be sure all personal knew what to do in the event of an invasion. The 502nd Military Battalion plan was for all personal to meet at the battalion headquarters (located north of the river) and then proceed south, across the Han River. I had, earlier, mentioned to the colonel, partially in jest, that if there was a real invasion, they could pick me up on their way south, or they could meet me in Inchon, since I could get there long before him. On the day of the practice retreat, I drove my Toyota car with personal belongings to headquarters in casual, civilian clothes. I was armed with a .45 cal. pistol in a shoulder holster and a .38 cal., 2″ barrel “detective special” on my belt. No extra ammo. When I arrived, everyone else was in full battle gear. The colonel took one look at me and suggested I get out of there and back across the river before the higher ups running the drill showed up. He thought it was funny and he knew that if the real thing happened, I would meet him in Inchon.

    Comment by jack widmaier — February 24, 2022 @ 10:23 pm

  3045. re: Manny #3041

    I arrived in the ROK in civilian clothes and left 21 months later in civilian clothes. I never had a uniform, or a military ID for that matter.

    Comment by jack widmaier — February 24, 2022 @ 10:39 pm

  3046. Re: 3041

    I arrived in the ROK in uniform in 1970 and left in uniform in 1971. I served as a special agent in civilian clothes the entire time I was there engaged in liaison activities with my counterparts. This is totally inconsistent. Go figure?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 25, 2022 @ 12:00 am

  3047. Re: 3045

    Phil – We were in totally different jobs. When in 1970 did you arrive? Did you work out of, or go to the 502nd HQ? We may have passed without ever knowing each other. I worked at a field station south of the river. When I went to the 502nd HQ, I went to C Company at the far end of the hall, as I remember.

    Comment by jack widmaier — February 25, 2022 @ 8:36 pm

  3048. Testing 1,2,3

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 27, 2022 @ 12:31 pm

  3049. Re: 3047

    Jack: I tried yesterday but could not have any my postings citied.

    I arrived in the ROK in August 1970 and left in May 1971. Initially, I was assigned to Company B, 502nd HQ. After requesting a reassignment, I was stationed at the Taejon Field Office, south of Seoul. While at Company B, I had no interaction with anyone from Company C. In our spare time, my agent and coordinator friends and I frequented the Tracy Club and watched movies on the compound.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 27, 2022 @ 12:48 pm

  3050. Re: 3049

    Phil: I had tried a longer post that day but it wouldnt go through.

    Well then, we never passed in the halls of the 502nd. I left early in August of 1970. I really enjoyed my stay in the ROK, but it was time to go home.

    Comment by jack widmaier — February 28, 2022 @ 10:19 pm

  3051. Re: 350

    Jack,

    I also enjoyed my time in the ROK. I kissed my yobo goodbye and knew too that it was time to return home. My time in the Army, in MI, at Fort Holabird, and in the ROK are etched in my memory. Along with my undergraduate education and my almost 40 years in the Human Resources field in the
    private sector, my Army experience has left me with wonderful memories and a love and respect for our country as well.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 1, 2022 @ 11:48 pm

  3052. Phil (3051),

    What’s a “YOBO”? Always curious.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 12, 2022 @ 6:52 am

  3053. Re: 3052

    Manny,

    It means “sweetheart” in Korean. She was my Korean girlfriend at the end of my tour there. She was 18 and I was 23 years of age. I think that I “carried the torch” for her for a while after I returned home. It has now been over 52 years since I left. She must be old and gray like me now.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 12, 2022 @ 3:59 pm

  3054. RE 2982. I was at the Bird the Fall of 963 (JFK Assassination time) and remember typing class. A Z Slash Semicolon Dash and so on in her singsong voice. Don’t remember her name a pleasant and pretty black gal. Best investment (at no cost) I ever received. No hunt and peck ever since and ahead of the game with the advent of the computer. After the Bird went to 502nd MI, Inchon, Yongsan (Tracy Compound). Then 209th in Okinawa and then attached to 173rd into Bien Hua spring of 1965. Still in touch with one of our classmates from the 971B class – Jeff Baker, who retired from NCIS. I spent time in federal law enforcement until age 37 and then went to medical school. Retired fed service 2001 and USAF Reserves 2004; worked emergency room medicine past 20 years; triple dipper now. Greg Lawson

    Comment by Gregory G. Lawson — March 17, 2022 @ 10:22 pm

  3055. Post 2763 I believe that was the USOM club; I do remember the slots. I used to go there for a meal and remember very good warmed up apple pie with cheese and ice cream for desert. As I recall it was on a hillside and walking down the steps one late afternoon/early evening I passed the CG going up the steps/pathway. Although I believe I was in Civilian Clothes I greeted him with a salute which he returned with a “good afternoon’ or similar words. I was stationed at Cano Tracey around that time. Had two tours in Korea for a total of two and a half years – various locations. Anyone is welcome to join me on my personal email: greg.lawson42@icloud.com

    Comment by Gregory G. Lawson — March 18, 2022 @ 12:00 am

  3056. Trying to make a post; don’t seem to be having much luck. Basic Agent class fall of 1963; returned to Korea and 502nd MI, Inchon, Yongsan (Tracey Compound and Seoul F/O; Okinawa next and then with 173rd into Bien Hua. Please feel free to contact me on email: greg.lawson42@icloud.com

    Comment by Gregory Lawson — March 18, 2022 @ 12:31 am

  3057. Post 1839 We were returning from a break period just before Thanksgiving, 1993 and the Lieutenant who was about to give an afternoon class reached out to me and handed me his car keys. He said to go to his car and turn the radio on and listen to the news. He said there is a report of a shooting in Dallas that involved the President and asked me to then come back and give a report to the class. This was the Assassination of JFK.

    Comment by Gregory Lawson — March 18, 2022 @ 12:39 am

  3058. Greg,
    Interesting history, really. Where did you end up living?
    No “dummies” on this site, but I’m getting there in my old age.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 25, 2022 @ 5:33 am

  3059. Hi Greg,

    Welcome to the site! You have quite a varied background. I have been a contributing member of this website since 2013 and I don’t think I have ever heard of anyone who had an MI background, then a career in federal law enforcement, and finally went to medical school. Anyway, it looks like you have had a very worthwhile and rewarding career in a number of fields.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 25, 2022 @ 2:23 pm

  3060. I thought that we had lost this wonderful blog, but thanks to Craig, it’s still here. And thank you Phil for checking with Craig about the status of our blog and letting the rest of us know via email. I hope that the certificate gets renewed soon so that we can start posting again without fear that it is not a safe or secure site.

    Tony

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 12, 2022 @ 5:57 pm

  3061. Hello, Just took a chance on the advanced warning. Glad we are still here (literally!)

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 13, 2022 @ 9:27 am

  3062. Good that we are up and running again. Wishing you all the best of days
    May God bless you all!

    “

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — April 14, 2022 @ 8:21 pm

  3063. Hi Guys,

    As Tony stated in #3060, the certificate for this site is still pending. I checked wth the administrator, Craig Sprout, and as you can see by subsequent postings, #3061 and 3062, we still can post without any problems or interference. Craig will advise me when the certificate has been re-newed and I will advise everyone of the latest status change on this site. In the meantime, we should be able to post as before.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 15, 2022 @ 5:18 pm

  3064. Hello: Hang in there everyone, take care.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 17, 2022 @ 8:10 am

  3065. Question,

    On what basis were enlisted personnel chosen for West Point appointments by the Army? Anyone have an answer.

    Thanks,
    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — April 20, 2022 @ 4:04 pm

  3066. Hello;
    Anyone out there? Hate to give up on this site, is there a fix for this problem? Take care

    Comment by Richard Duarte — May 7, 2022 @ 10:07 am

  3067. Richard,

    How are you? As I stressed in my posting #3063, the site is working just fine. The certificate for it is still pending, however, you can still post anytime you choose to do so. Sometimes, we run of interesting topics to talk about. It happens. Don’t be discouraged. Manny tried to encourage discussion in his recent posting, #3065, but so far, we have had no takers. It has happened to me several times since I first joined this site. Does anyone have an interesting point that they would like to discuss about Fort Holabird or MI, please start us off on the next discussion. Any ideas?

    Thanks!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 8, 2022 @ 9:52 am

  3068. Phil.et..al.,

    New book just out; THE RICHIE BOYS (don’t remember the exact title and I just finished it-old age). Very informative. Phil, I keep trying, honest.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 14, 2022 @ 6:34 am

  3069. Manny,

    Thank you for all that you have done for this site ever since it was created by Jim Flynn many years ago.

    Richard, Gary, Bill, Edward, Gregory, Jack, Jim, Bernie, Robert, et al, please let us hear from you.

    Thanks!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 16, 2022 @ 8:04 am

  3070. Just sitting here, thinking of something new to say. I can’t. So I will have to remember the past. My first day in the Army. We gathered together at the Boston Army Base. Arrived at 8:00 AM and sat around until 2:30. We all thought we would be going to Fort Dix by bus or maybe a train. The NCO called me in to his office and said, so, you are going into Army Intelligence. I think you should be the one to take care of everyone’s orders, meal tickets, and plane tickets and make sure everyone gets on the plane. I and most of the rest of us had never flown before. They took us to the airport on an army bus and we had about two hours to kill before we took off. Naturally, everyone wanted one more call to their girlfriend or their mother. I had a hell of a time trying to keep everyone within sight. As they say, it was like herding cats. I wanted nothing to do with leadership! Naturally everyone started to call me “Sarge”. We boarded the plane (surprisingly everyone made it) and had an uneventful flight to NJ. arriving around 6 PM and all were hungry. “OK Sarge, where are we going to eat”. How the hell would I know. had never been to Newark before. We saw a stairway to a restaurant on the second floor but halfway up the manager stopped us and said we couldn’t even afford a sandwich up there. He pointed out a little coffee shop and we settled for that.(we still went over the amount of our meal tickets but they accepted it). I found an MP and he directed us to a waiting area for the bus to Dix. The bus didn’t show up until after 1AM. I got a lot of “hey Sarge” questions before the bus got there. The happiest part of the day (next day really) was when we got off of the bus and an MP took my package of everyone’s orders.
    Well, that was the first day.
    Some day maybe I will bore you with day two.
    Keep posting.
    Bill Leach

    Comment by Bill Leach — May 16, 2022 @ 8:51 pm

  3071. Bill,
    How did the NCO know you were going to Army intelligence or did you enlist for AI?Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 17, 2022 @ 5:59 am

  3072. Hello Bill and all: Great topic, one of those things you’ll never forget, the first day in the Army! We had to report to the downtown enlistment center in Los Angeles. August 16, 1965, it was one of the few times that the Marines took draftees, a lot of sad souls. 25,000 a month were getting drafted for service out of L.A. Anyway, I had been told by my recruiting sarge that I would be going to Ft. Ord, CA, by the ocean for basic and then to Holabird for training in MI. Well, first surprise, we were told to get on a bus for the airport. Not too bad, I knew others who had been bussed up.
    Second surprise, we were told that we were going to Ft. Polk, La. and the adventure began. Take care everyone.

    augu

    Comment by Richard Duarte — May 17, 2022 @ 9:32 am

  3073. Bill,

    Great idea! First day in the Army! Keep em’ coming. Let’s hear from others out there? Thanks also to Manny and Richard!

    Thanks!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 17, 2022 @ 9:53 am

  3074. Hi Manny, yes, I enlisted for AI. June 6, 1965.

    Comment by bill leach jr — May 17, 2022 @ 11:23 am

  3075. Re: Manny’s question in 3065- Service academy appointments: https://www.westpoint.edu/admissions/steps-to-admission

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 20, 2022 @ 2:44 pm

  3076. Oops, didn’t realize I was so close to the end when I responded to Manny’s service academy query.
    As for reminiscences, I’ve got to go back to my Berlin-Crisis draft alert since my 2S (student) exemption expired in June ’61 upon graduation from RISD with a degree in industrial design. (HA! What’s the Army going to do with a slender [skinny?] 25 year old industrial designer?)
    I grew up in the area of the Hackensack, NJ, draft office (Pascack Valley) but was living in Arlington, VA, while working at the Patent Office in DC.
    Figuring the 1st Army trained at Dix and the 2nd at Jackson, I transferred my physical to Arlington. Three of us were bused to Richmond and back on an air conditioned Greyhound coach.
    When the “Greeting” arrived, I took the train to NYC and a Public Service bus out to H’sack where I duly reported in at 0600 hrs. The bunch of us were bused to Newark for processing/swearing in. However, there was scuttlebutt that “Dix is full!”
    OK, jump on the bus out to EWR (Newark Airport) to board a tired old “Presidential Airways” DC-6 for the flight to, you guessed it, Columbia, SC, and Fort Jackson. Wrote out a postcard to the bride as we overflew Arlington.
    TMI! (Too Much Information) More later.
    Oh, we six S/As at the Buffalo FO typed our own DA Form 514s.
    Re: Politics. I seem to remember something about “any known political proclivities?”
    Also, I was sent to cover Federal District Court one day when Malcolm X was testifying.
    I was also assigned to do some research on the then-new “chicken footprint in a circle” or what was later modified into the “DROP IT!” symbol.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 20, 2022 @ 3:11 pm

  3077. My first day in the US Army was at 8am, Feb. 5, 1965. I was dropped off at the Oakland (California) Induction Center by an older brother who advised me not to volunteer for anything. I told him that that was too late because I had already volunteered for the Army and for the Intelligence Corps.
    A group of us was sworn in and filled out paperwork and sent to lunch at a nearby restaurant. Then we waited until evening at which time we were told that we would not be going to Ft Ord CA like we thought and hoped. Instead, we were sent to Ft Polk, LA.

    That evening we were transported by commercial bus to San Francisco Airport and later flown down to Los Angeles which was the first time on an airplane for most of us.

    Hours later we were flown to Dallas where we waited a few hours before being flown to Augusta, GA. A couple of hours later we were flown back to Shreveport, LA. From there we were put on a commercial bus and transported south to Ft Polk, LA. I think it was already the next morning by then when we arrived at Polk.

    We stayed at barracks for incoming soldiers and we filled out paperwork, got our haircuts, our clothing was issued, and that sort of stuff. We stayed there for about a week (Zero Week) before being sent to our new company area at North Fort.

    North Fort was the smaller of the two parts of Polk and did not have the theater and other amenities. There was a very small PX and a chapel near our company area.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — May 20, 2022 @ 9:26 pm

  3078. In response to Manny’s post #3065,

    Manny, I don’t know what exact qualifications enlisted personnel needed for consideration for West Point, but when I completed the Interrogators course at Ft. Holabird, my first duty station was at Ft. Meade. I was translating letters from German women (mostly) who were searching for American husbands and boyfriends! During that time (early 69) I was contacted by an officer who interviewed me and advised me that I had been selected as an OCS candidate at Ft. Belvoir, Virginia. My only qualifications at the time were 2 years of college, my German language capabilities and completion of the Interrogation Course (MOS was 96C2L29).

    Best regards…..Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 21, 2022 @ 5:19 pm

  3079. My first day in the army started at Vandenberg AFB in Central California.
    I was an air force brat (born in the March AFB California hospital. We took a Greyhound bus from Vandenberg to the Army Induction Center in Los Angeles only to board another bus back up to Ft. Ord for basic training. Ft. Ord had meningitis controls in place and the A-5-1 barracks (along with all other units) windows were open 24/7….froze the first night.
    I distinctly remember thinking…..”this is going to be a long 3 months”.

    Comment by Gary Miller — May 21, 2022 @ 5:29 pm

  3080. On my first day, I remember remember reporting to AFEES at Fort Holabird. We sat around for a while and then took a chartered bus to Fort Bragg, NC, a 7 to 8 hour trip. At Bragg, I remember being kept up all night until they let us march to our company, having to deal with getting yelled at by the drill sergeants as we departed the bus. Unfortunately, our company mess hall had recently been lost to a fire so we had to eat on shifts sharing the facility of another company. After Basic Training, it was back to Holabird for AIT (Agent School). Being a native Baltimorean, I took the option of living at home during trading which gave me access to my bed and mom’s cooking. It sure beat living in a barracks and eating mess hall food.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 22, 2022 @ 3:09 pm

  3081. All a blur. Left Cleveland on a troop railroad car around midnight to Louisville KY then to Fort Knox and then the feces hit the proverbial fan. Lots of the usual screaming and harassment. More about my West Point question later, too much PTSD just thinking about my gentle introduction to Uncle Sam’s old Army.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 23, 2022 @ 6:05 am

  3082. Hello Everyone, First day in US Army 2/6/1966. USAR, 78th Div (tng) Lodi, NJ. Started Basic at Ft. Jackson a year later on 2/8/67. Completed Basic on Friday, April 7, 1967 with orders to report to USAINTS, Ft Holabird, MD.The Army provided me with a commercial plane ticket from Columbia, SC to Dulles outside Washington, DC. The flight was over 2 hours on a Piedmont Airlines 2 engine prop plane. I had a 4 hour layover at Dulles awaiting a Boeing 707 flight to Baltimore (15 minute flight). I arrived at Baltimore Airport (I think it was called Friendship Airport then) and came down an escalator to the baggage claim. I saw a Spec 5 in uniform holding my name up on a hand held sign. I approached him. He was exceedingly polite. He helped me with my baggage and escorted me to a car. A real Army Car. I don’t remember the Make or Model, but after riding in deuce and a half trucks at Ft Jackson for two months (on the few occasions when I rode in a vehicle) mostly it was marching or double timing)…All of a sudden I’m in a car with an E-5 treating me with respect, not as a trainee(I think I was promoted to E-2 upon graduation from Basic). So…he drove me to Ft. Holabird, he showed me to “my room”…This was on a Saturday, the day after my Basic ended. He showed me where the Mess Hall was, in the same building, and then I was on my own until Monday morning when I was to report to an empty old barracks building. I was assigned to Casual Company and handed a floor scraper with orders to scrape down the floor of the barracks. I did this for 2 days virtually unsupervised (didn’t work too hard) and then I was greeted by a man who became my boss for just about four months, his name was Master Sergeant Trimper. He told me that I was there at Holabird by mistake. He took my orders which showed that I was to report to Ft Holabird as I had done. He kept my orders for a few hours and then came back and told me this. “Your
    Reserve Unit has only 3 MOS’s, Cook, Clerk and Infantry. I checked and can find no open positions for a Cook here at Holabird, and we have no positions for Infantry, so you are my new Company Clerk and your room is right down the hall from our office.” And so…I became the Company Clerk in B Company (I think it was called B Company). This was the Administrative Company that handled the affairs of one of the two Intelligence Training Units at the Base. I worked under MSG Trimper’s supervision until I was released on about August 6, 1967 since on that date I had completed 6 months Active Duty as a Reservist. I could not believe how lucky I was since just about everybody in my reserve unit went directly from Basic to Advanced Infantry Training. Anybody who looks at this site will surely know that serving in an clerk position at Ft Holabird was a pretty good gig when compared to AIT. I loved “The Bird” and I felt privileged to serve 4 months in what may have been the most unique Army Base in the USA. By the way, I did try to get this error in orders straightened out. I called my CO in the Lodi, NJ armory, I pleaded my case that this was some kind of mistake to anyone who would listen for the first week at Ft. Holabird. Then I thought…this isn’t so bad, why not just stay here until the Army decides to let me go back to Reserve Duty when my 6 months is over, and so, that’s what I did. So, if any of you served in what I think was called the Company B USAINTS Training Company, you may have seen me in the office at a desk working hard on my typewriter, and feverishly filing papers…realizing that even though the other choice would have been Advanced Infantry Training that would have ended sooner than my 4 months at Holabird, on balance I was probably better off staying where I was assigned.
    That was a brief summary of my days at Ft. Holabird. Pete Fanuele

    Comment by Pete Fanuele — May 26, 2022 @ 2:38 pm

  3083. Pete,
    Good deal! Somebody up there really cares about you. Thanks for post.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 28, 2022 @ 5:58 am

  3084. Pete,

    That was a nice job concerning your first day in the Army. Thanks to you and all of the others who contributed their personal experiences on this topic.

    In the meantime, Craig Sprout, our site troubleshooter, told me that the license for this site has been renewed and that he has also agreed to remain our go-to person when we have problems with our postings. In my absence, please contact him if your latest information does not find its way onto this site. He can be reached at csprout@gmail.com

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 28, 2022 @ 8:39 am

  3085. My first day in the army. My mother walked me to the bus station [two blocks from our home] in a small Iowa town. Arrived in Omaha after an hour. I remember hesitating before stepping forward which was the swearing-in ceremony in October 1955. I did like my army serial/service number – US 555d55d5. We rode the train to Camp [later Fort] Chaffee, AR. We arrived maybe 10 PM. We were just handed our uniforms, except for boots. A soldier fitted our boots and they were my most comfortable footwear ever. I wore them for yard work for years until they wore out.

    My pre-induction would have been similar to the first day in the army had I stayed home. Instead, I was a season park ranger at Old faithful, Yellowstone. I had to drive to my local draft board at Bozeman, MT [120 miles – a little longer than a two block walk]. Then we were bused to Butte, MT [84 miles]. All this just to pass a minimal physical. An army recruiter, after we took a short written test, stated that I qualified for OCS. I declined when I had to enlist for three years rather than being drafted for two years.
    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — May 28, 2022 @ 1:06 pm

  3086. Bernie,

    Thank for you comments concerning your first day in the Army. I am sure your experience as park ranger gave you a “leg up” on many of your fellow basic trainees.

    For our next topic, now that we are once again a licensed blog website, would anyone care to honor someone else who served but is no longer with us. Please have your postings done by close of business on Memorial Day.

    Thanks!

    Comment by Phil .Ostrander — May 28, 2022 @ 5:34 pm

  3087. This week-end, the most solemn of days dedicated to the memory of those who have given their lives for the U.S. is upon us . The memories of our fallen brothers are always part of our special military culture and we are proud to acknowledge them at this time.
    Thank-you Phil and Manny for keeping this site going.
    Phil you’ve given great inspiration and a shot in the arm for us.
    Hard to believe my first post on our site was #187.
    Best wishes for you all!
    Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — May 28, 2022 @ 7:43 pm

  3088. Hi Ed,

    Thanks very much! I get my inspiration from you, Manny, and all of the others. Plus it doesn’t hurt that I grew up in Holabird’s backyard and still reside here.

    BTW, I came up with another idea for the next “thread”. For Memorial Day (thanks again Ed!), can each of us pay tribute to a veteran who is now deceased?

    I will start it off. I have one relative who was lost in America’s valiant wars that I have been able to finds thus far. He is Private John Willcocks, a Revolutionary War soldier and a member of Captain Marsh’s Light Horse Troop who was killed on 11/22/1776 defending General Washington’s retreat from New York to New Jersey so he could fight again. May he rest in peace and may his memory be a blessing.

    Please post your tributes NLT the end of Memorial Day. Have a respectful Memorial Day!

    Thank you!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 28, 2022 @ 9:17 pm

  3089. “Taps” always brings a lump in my throat and tears to my eyes.
    Anyone have the same reaction?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 29, 2022 @ 6:33 am

  3090. My wife’s uncle, David Wade Roberts, was a 35 year old linesman when WW2 began for the US. He immediately volunteered for the Marines, but was rejected because he was missing his trigger finger due to an electrical accident while working. However, he was the first WW2 draftee into the Army from Boone County, KY.
    David was a combat engineer in the 439th Signal Heavy Construction Battalion. Combat engineers followed closely behind the infantry. David went from training in the USA to England to North Africa to Sicily to Italy to Germany. He was outside Berlin on V-E Day.
    Davis was single and gave all his leave to men with a wife and family.
    He returned to the States on the Queen Mary with a designated spot on the deck for him to sleep.

    Comment by bernard thielen — May 29, 2022 @ 12:29 pm

  3091. Another of my wife’s uncles, Howe Hume Roberts [brother of David Roberts – see Ref. # 3090] volunteered for military duty in WW2 since he was 42 years old in 1941. He was a Navy Seabee who spend his time building air fields. He was first assigned to the Aleutian Islands and later to the South Pacific. He only married after WW2.
    One of my wife’s ancestors was George Michael Bedinger [1756-1843] who fought in the Revolutionary War. If interested, type his name into your search engine.

    Comment by bernard thielen — May 29, 2022 @ 6:03 pm

  3092. Hello: It looks like the site is back, thanks to all who stayed with it and a wish for a safe and enjoyable Memorial Day. A thought for all of our fellow vets, those that served and especially those that gave their all. This last year, we lost Wayne Akemoto who I served with on Okinawa, 1967-68 and a contributor to this group, RIP.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — May 30, 2022 @ 9:28 am

  3093. Re:3084 The Parkway Restop Fort Holabird or the Twilight Zone Blog Website is back and as good as ever! The license for this site has been renewed as per our troubleshooter, Craig Sprout, csprout@gmail.com

    Comment by Philip G Ostrander, Jr. — May 30, 2022 @ 2:16 pm

  3094. Hi MI Guys,

    Below is an email sent to me today by our volunteer troubleshooter, Craig Sprout, that he asked me to share:

    Phil,

    Hope all is well with you, my friend.

    I just wanted to drop you a note to let you know that I have finally completed a project I’ve wanted to do for a long time. I migrated Parkway to a new server, and finally have all the certificate issues in hand.

    I did a bunch of testing and poking around, and didn’t run into any problems.

    You should note some improved performance, and there are a lot of backend stuff that you probably won’t.

    Thanks for all your patience. I’m usually much quicker than this, but life kind of got in my way.

    If you can get the word out to everyone else, hopefully that will get everyone back.

    Best,
    –C

    Comment by Philip G Ostrander, Jr. — June 9, 2022 @ 8:03 pm

  3095. Thank you both, Craig and Phil, for all the work you do to keep this site going.
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — June 9, 2022 @ 9:00 pm

  3096. Bill,

    Thank you for supporting the site going way back to 2004. I have learned a lot from you and appreciate you being there whenever I request your assistance.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 9, 2022 @ 10:49 pm

  3097. My pleasure Phil. I love this site.

    Comment by bill leach — June 10, 2022 @ 10:51 pm

  3098. Let us not forget Jim, our ur “father” who made this happen.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 12, 2022 @ 6:38 am

  3099. Manny,

    We are agreed. Without Jim Flynn we would not have this blog website. Since then, we have all taken a turn. Thanks for your leadership since your first post in 2004. I guess that we all will take a turn. One of the things that I really enjoy about this site is that for the most part eveyone really seems to get along and that we are are bound together by our prior service in MI which started at Fort Holabird.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 12, 2022 @ 1:52 pm

  3100. Ref 3009
    Let’s hope we are here at this site for some time and thanks for the shot of longevity that Craig,Phil,Manny and Bill give us.
    Thanks guys!
    Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — June 13, 2022 @ 1:09 am

  3101. Ed,

    Thank you for all of your contributions and support since your first posting in 2009 (if I am correct). As you said, longevity as well as dedication of our contributors has been the key for this site continuing to the present day. We thank all of those that have remained with us since their first postings.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 13, 2022 @ 12:36 pm

  3102. Last night, I watched the second installment of a two hour TV program on the Watergate Investigation. At the very end of this presentation, there was information on the sentencing of those involved in the Watergate Affair. John Dean’s sentence was supposed to be from one to four years. He said that they wanted him to serve his time near Washington, D.C. Fort Holabird was selected for Dean and several of the other Watergate conspirators to meet that requirement. When they mentioned Holabird, they showed an old grainy tape lasting only a few seconds of the outside of the Barracks Building, Student BN, USAINTC.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 13, 2022 @ 10:48 pm

  3103. Yesterday, my family and I decided to celebrate Father’s Day early, to beat the crowds at the local restaurants. We feasted on Greek cuisine at a local diner on the east side of Baltimore. Because we were close to Holabird Industrial Park, we decided to drive through the former fort.

    Fortunately, little has changed since my last visit in late 2021. Still remaining includes:

    *The Officers’ Open Mess with an M551 Sheridan Tank out front

    *A pristine Colgate Creek flowing gently toward the Baltimore harbor

    *Two bungelow style houses on Detroit Ave. at the south end of the former fort which once were BOQs’

    *Portside Apartments on Dundalk Ave., formerly Cummins’ Apartments, housing for both officer and enlisted personnel personnel

    *Some of the former street layout including Portal, Tributary, Beckley, and Van Deman Streets

    After nearly fifty years since the base’s closing, I feel like somewhat of an archaeologist exploring what was once a small bustling fort of 286 buildings with 2000 civilians and 3000 military personnel working there.

    Happy Father’s Day!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 19, 2022 @ 9:41 am

  3104. Thanks Phil, still the same in my mind’s eye, 21 and about to enter a memory for a lifetime.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — June 19, 2022 @ 9:46 am

  3105. Thanks Phil and Happy Father’s Day to you too.
    I would love to take that tour of our beloved base with you some day.
    As Richard just posted, it’s a memory that is always with me.

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 19, 2022 @ 4:06 pm

  3106. Gary,

    Thanks! You are on! Next time that you come to the D.C. area, let me know and I will give you the tour plus we will do lunch. Obviously, we need to do it sooner and not later as you turn 75 next month and I am right behind you in August.

    Richard,

    Thanks! Please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    I currently have almost 100 email addresses of people who have used this site and would love to add yours to the list.

    Thanks again to you both!

    Toujours avant!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 19, 2022 @ 4:55 pm

  3107. Sounds like a reunion of sorts.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 20, 2022 @ 5:47 am

  3108. Manny,

    If you are interested, please let me know.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostranderm — June 20, 2022 @ 7:39 am

  3109. Seems like a big gap since the last comment. Any body out there?

    Comment by Jim Wiles — July 9, 2022 @ 8:21 am

  3110. Hello out there: Still here, made it through the holiday. Found my 66-B-13 graduation booklet. Anyone ever come across Roger Seward, Chuck Guinn or Cliff Mower. I think all three went through Monterey Language and then ROK.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — July 9, 2022 @ 9:45 am

  3111. Yes! Just can’t come with anything today. Oh, just did. I’ve only met a couple vets who have ever heard of Fort holabird. Kind of makes us a outliers. That why this site serves a purpose. As far as the CIC it is about the same. Mostly they confuse it with the CID. I guess we really getting rare (and even a bit extinct).
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 9, 2022 @ 3:25 pm

  3112. Whoops! Subtract an “a” and add an “are”. I’ll let you analyst find the two “boo-boos”.
    Manny Again

    Comment by manny adler — July 9, 2022 @ 3:28 pm

  3113. Glad to see your sense of humor is in good form Manny. This analyst found more than a couple of boo-boos and I wasn’t looking for any until you opened challenge. Enjoy the the best weather on earth right now in our parts! Later, Ed

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — July 9, 2022 @ 4:04 pm

  3114. There are not too many people who incorrectly spell their last names like me. I am glad to see that you guys are still alive and kicking. How about this for a “thread”.

    Please sign in with your ages (no birthdates please).

    I’ll be 75 next month!!!

    Comment by Philip G Ostrander, Jr. — July 9, 2022 @ 9:46 pm

  3115. I am signing in at 75 years.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — July 9, 2022 @ 11:58 pm

  3116. 85.6
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 10, 2022 @ 6:21 am

  3117. 77 and still kicking!

    Comment by Richard Duarte — July 10, 2022 @ 9:14 am

  3118. 89+ Do I win or is it lose?
    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — July 10, 2022 @ 9:41 am

  3119. 75 in 3 days!
    I was born at the March AFB hospital in Riverside, California.
    You gentlemen all sound to young to be over 70! I suggest we all get our birth certificates double-checked for accuracy! 🙂
    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 10, 2022 @ 10:10 am

  3120. Bernie,

    So far, you are our eldest statesman. I would be surprised if there are any more active members who are older based on my knowledge of our current membership. Stay tuned…

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 10, 2022 @ 10:32 am

  3121. 87 next week.

    Still haven’t found anyone I know or who knew me. Boo-hoo, Oh, lonesome me.

    Some names- Basic & Bird; Cliff Kuchenmeister. Buffalo (NY) FO; Paul Siroky, Al Vallone, Bill Klein, Joe Goetz.
    TUSLOG Det. 27, Manzarali Station, Cerkeshuyuk, Turkey; Stan Winarski, Ed Register, Phil Clark. And that’s about it. Very narrow exposure save for all the BI leads and covert security tests on Nike Stations around Chattauqua and Catteraugus Counties in Western New York.

    Oh, I hit the ‘Bird at 26 so I was a late starter.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — July 10, 2022 @ 11:49 am

  3122. 78 on October 7th. At Holabird 1965-1968.on this site since November 2004. I feel like I know most of you from reading your posts through the years. Keep on posting.

    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — July 10, 2022 @ 2:23 pm

  3123. Oh, one more from the Buffalo FO, Almondo A. “Al” Vallone. Just saw that he died in 2018 after retiring as a CWO after 29 years in INTC.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — July 10, 2022 @ 5:56 pm

  3124. Oops… Six hours pass from my prior post and I haven’t got the brains (any more!) to go back and re-read it before making the double entry mistake ’bout Al Vallone.
    Well, I could add that his given name was Almondo Arthur Avallone but the recruiter screwed up and made him Almondo A. Vallone. He decided to live with it. After all, it WAS official U. S. Army records…

    Comment by Bill Schulz — July 10, 2022 @ 6:20 pm

  3125. I will be 78 on July 31st. I turned 21 while I was at Holabird. BTW, I was in Bill Leach’s MI Coordinator Course – I was the Group Leader.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — July 10, 2022 @ 8:38 pm

  3126. Tony, I know you better from this site than when we were in class together.
    Bill Leach

    Comment by bill leach jr — July 11, 2022 @ 8:17 pm

  3127. Bill, you’re right. We’ve gotten to know each other through this site and Facebook. I hung out with two guys that were in the Analyst course when we were going through the Coordinator course. One of them failed and got sent to Tanker Course at Ft Knox. The other guy was sent to do MI work at the Canal Zone.

    I’m also friends on FB with Dwight Zimpel who was in our Coordinator course. I don’t recall if he’s posted on this site but I think so.

    Interesting, but I was able to reconnect with the OIC of one of the Field Teams that I was assigned to in Germany. He was a Captain. We’ve talked on the phone & emailed but after his tour in Vietnam, he never wanted to talk about Army or Intelligence again. And he avoids that like the plague.

    I have to go through his wife to get answers to some of my questions – that’s the only way he will talk about the Army. Anyone else run into this sort of situation?

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — July 11, 2022 @ 9:37 pm

  3128. Tony(3127),

    Yes, in my practice as a clinical psychologist.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 13, 2022 @ 5:09 am

  3129. Thanks Manny. I guess you see or talk with a lot more vets that I have.

    I have quite a few friends and relatives that were in combat in Korea and Vietnam and none of them declined to talk about their experiences. So this was new to me with my former OIC.

    When I was a cop, I had a a number of incidents involving Vietnam vets that went into crisis. But I only dealt with them for a short time (except the ones that barricaded themselves in a car or a house). But they quickly got turned over to mental health professionals.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — July 13, 2022 @ 6:31 pm

  3130. Tony,

    All kinds of reasons and not just vets. Some patients/clients are ashamed of something about their time in service or an incident at that time. We humans are a complex lot. One clue in this case is that you have to go through his wife. How open is he with her or anyone. Some, usually men, are uncomfortable talking about anything but the superficial. And on and on it goes.

    If you any questions phil, I think, has my phone number. Glad to discuss further.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 14, 2022 @ 5:37 am

  3131. Hi Tony,

    Just email me and I will be glad to provide you with Manny’s phone number. Thanks!

    Comment by Philip G Ostrander, Jr. — July 14, 2022 @ 7:38 pm

  3132. A voice calling out from the wilderness. Holabird Aug 1963 to April 1966. Grad of Coordinator Class 64-C-1. Assigned to G2 Case Control Branch. I have never met another classmate or co-worker on this site. Am I invisible?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — July 18, 2022 @ 5:48 pm

  3133. Perhaps it is because I am 79.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — July 18, 2022 @ 5:50 pm

  3134. Dan Ritchie, I graduated from Coordinator class 66-C-2 October 1965. Went on to work at S2 Troop Command from Oct 65 to June 1968.I lived in the brick barracks for the entire time. I’m sure we met while there. Sorry, I don’t remember most of the people I Served with. I am also 78. There are a number of other people on this site from the same era.
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — July 18, 2022 @ 8:27 pm

  3135. Bill Leach, when you moved into the brick palace, I was on the first-floor west side of the building in palatial accommodations. Where did you reside?
    Dan

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — July 21, 2022 @ 1:23 pm

  3136. Bill and Dan,
    Started on east side second floor then moved to first floor east, right near headquarters office.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 21, 2022 @ 4:43 pm

  3137. Dan, in the almost 3 full years I lived there, I moved around the 3rd floor. Sometimes on the east side and sometimes on the west side and for a while I had a room in the middle with one room mate.
    I remember for a while we had the cooks living with us on the 3rd floor. For a very short time we had MPs living with us. Then they moved the MPs down to the first floor east.
    The cooks and the MPs had different work hours and days off than us so it was an uneasy situation. Lights on and noise when we were trying to sleep or they were trying to sleep.
    Bill

    Comment by Bill Leach — July 21, 2022 @ 8:26 pm

  3138. They called them bays. More like wards. No private rooms with one room mate. All went to sleep and woke up at a given time, but then that was in the 50’s. Taps at night and revile in the morning. If you had night duty you didn’t have to follow the schedule, just put up with hub-bub. If on KP the night clerk (orderly) came in with a flashlight looking for the towels tide to the end of your bunk and got you up. Probably more details than asked for but here you are.
    Manny Adler (class of 55).

    Comment by manny adler — July 22, 2022 @ 5:21 am

  3139. Thank you Manny – I do remember that they were called “Bays” which I had never heard before but I had heard the term “Wards” which is where my mother died (at a hospital ward).
    I just saw that Baltimore is expected to reach a high of 107 degrees on Sunday!

    I don’t know how hot it got during the six months that I was there thru the summer of 1965, but it did get hot at times.

    We did not have A/C in the bays but we had large fans at one end of the bays that helped. We slept on top of our blankets in an effort to stay cooler.

    After dinner chow, I would go out on the balcony area with a friend and we would drink cold cokes as we talked about home back in California and watched the sunset. Good memories!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — July 22, 2022 @ 11:15 pm

  3140. It got very hot and very humid every day in the summer. Most days we got an afternoon shower. Then it got more muggy.
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — July 23, 2022 @ 3:19 pm

  3141. The weather in Baltimore really did and does suck with the heat, humidity, high dew points, and lack of a sea breeze most of the time. What added to it was the pollution from factories that surrounded the post on 3 sides. Unbelievably, after 50 years, all of the factories have disappeared only to be supplanted by light industrial buildings with a fraction of the pollution. Colgate Creek is now pristine. We still offer the same heat and humid and though.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 23, 2022 @ 5:38 pm

  3142. The last sentence in #3141 should read, “We still offer the same heat and humidity though.”

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 23, 2022 @ 5:42 pm

  3143. Phil,
    Who in the late 60’ s would have ever thought that Colgate Creek would someday be “pristine”? We were afraid to smoke anywhere near it!

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 23, 2022 @ 6:23 pm

  3144. If you look at the movie I posted on YouTube that was taken in 1967, the rocks in Colgate Creek are coated with what looks like the oil spill from the Exon Valdez of 1989. At about 2.22 min. of the video.
    I can’t believe it is clear now.

    Comment by bill leach — July 23, 2022 @ 8:11 pm

  3145. Bill and Gary,

    Absolutely, I remember the way it was and it was terrible. The next time that I am over there, I will try to get a picture for both of you and anyone else who may be interested that I can send as an email attachment. I get over to the old post around twice a year. Unfortunately, I was just there recently as part of my Father’s Day celebration.

    Regards,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 23, 2022 @ 10:38 pm

  3146. Phil,

    I’m sure our beloved bridge, spanning Colgate Creek, is long gone, but would you happen to know when it went?

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 27, 2022 @ 4:17 pm

  3147. Hi Gary,

    I have no idea where our beloved swinging pedestrian bridge went. Fortunately, the automobile traffic bridge spanning the mighty Colgate remains.

    I am stumped.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 28, 2022 @ 8:21 am

  3148. Phil,

    Top Secret: Need to know basis only(hint: in DC near the Potomac). I really don’t remember that infamous bridge. I lived a sheltered life I guess.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 5, 2022 @ 5:37 am

  3149. Manny et al,

    I remember going back to the “Bird” soon after and the swinging pedestrian bridge was no longer there. So many things were gone, one after another. Thank God, all of the heavy industry surrounding the post, is now gone. Seagram’s Distillery, the GM plant, the Lever Brothers Plant, the Sun Oil Refinery, and The National Brewery. Slowly, step by step our post has been stripped of almost all of its buildings. Most of the 286 buildings, 24 masonry and the rest wooden, were razed shortly after the fort closed in 1973. Additionally, the Crime Records Center – October 2001. the USAINTS Classroom Building – December 2005, and around the same time, the Officers’s Open Mess swimming pool. All that is left now is the officers’s open mess main building (VVA Post 451), a warehouse at the south end of the post, the three Jeep test tracks, and Cummins Apartments (Portside Apartments), two houses on Detroit Ave, that were Officers Family Housing, and part of the original street layout. What remains is now the Holabird Business Park.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 5, 2022 @ 9:40 am

  3150. Manny,
    I must have lived a sheltered life [like you] or maybe in a “zone” at Holabird [Jan.-April 1956] because I don’t remember the bridges or the Colgate Creek smell and my family is sensitive to smell.
    When my wife and I walk in a local park, the smell from nearby huge gas storage tanks occasionally cause me to really cough. It doesn’t brother her.
    My younger sister slept in her vehicle when the motel room smell was too musty after just opening from being closed for the winter. Her husband slept in the room.
    My other sister, a pediatric nurse and now retired, can no longer stand the smell of a dirty diaper.
    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — August 7, 2022 @ 11:41 am

  3151. Bernie,

    Is not this site “The Twilight Zone”? I now realize I never really explored the post. Existed in a bubble; the main post.
    Egads!

    Thanks Bernie.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 8, 2022 @ 6:23 am

  3152. Hello out there:
    I have few lasting memories of the Bird. I got there in Dec. 1965,right before the big snowfall. I remember the brick barracks building, the cafeteria, the parade field, marching to class and having my eyelids frozen, crossing the “bridge”, the classrooms and the huge industrial bldgs.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — August 8, 2022 @ 9:33 am

  3153. Hi Richard,

    Unfortunately, everything that you mentioned in #3152 including the parade field is now gone. However, we still have what no one can take away from us, our memories!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 8, 2022 @ 4:37 pm

  3154. Hi, kids, back momentarily. All well here in Central Florida… well, except for the fact that what WE were investigating “back when” seems to have permeated the country we love and served and especially our ol’ side kicks at Feebee. Bad day at Black Rock to be sure!
    Does anyone know the percentage of washouts from the ‘Bird?

    Comment by Bill Schulz — August 10, 2022 @ 9:24 am

  3155. I am an antique of Fort Holabird going through the Agents course in class 97B9 (January 1957). One of the funnest things happened in the surveillance course on the “block”. The subject went into one of the strip joints. One classmate member who was short a brick or so was sent in the club. He was immediately hugged by a totally nude stripper who grabbed him by the balls and termed him “darling”. The subject instructor got a good laugh out of this during the critique. I went from Holabird to the 441st CIC Detachment in Tokyo. I was assigned to S2 – Counter Espionage -Soviet…the Soviet Embassy was our target…not the CIA…probably the last Army Intelligence unit to target a Soviet Embassy in the world. In serving with the unit, I delivered a packet in March 1958 (unknown to me at the time) for Gary Powers and his U2 flight back over China and Russia. With a reduction in military forces in late 1957 and early 1958, I was sent to the 308th CIC Detachment in Seoul, Korea and eventually headed a five member Special Investigations team whose primary duty was to interrogate the North Korean espionage agents sent in to South Korea. In December 1958, I declined an offer from the CIA and a GS 15 position with the FBI in 2003 to establish a Counter Espionage Soviet section. From my duty targeting the Soviet Embassy in Tokyo, I was one of the few persons with direct experience against the KGB and GRU Soviet Intelligence organizations.

    Comment by Jim Cate — August 10, 2022 @ 3:19 pm

  3156. Hey, chaps, just a little hint to those of us who don’t “live” at this site: I have the page bookmarked. When I want to pick-up where I left off, I simply go to the bookmark, note the message number where I left off, click on it, go to the end and scroll back to the noted massage number.
    Example: “Fort Holabird thru 3154”
    Then I edit the link’s title to reflect the new base.
    I use Firefox so don’t know the process for other browsers.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — August 10, 2022 @ 3:56 pm

  3157. What an interesting site. You never know what you will find when you get here. Most of us had interesting assignments and Fort Holabird was the start of it for all of us. Many different stories, jobs, and experiences with over 3000 postings and more to come (I hope). Let’s never let it end.
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — August 10, 2022 @ 8:48 pm

  3158. My late husbands DD214 says he was at Ft Holabird Feb, 1970 and it lists a file number. Anyone know how I can get that file? Shouldn’t the VA have that? I am trying to prove he was in Vietnam 1970-1971 and hoping this file might help. I just received his personnel file and it seems as if it is not complete. He was USAF Veteran Ralph Michael Wong and served from 1970-1990.
    Thanks for any thoughts!

    Comment by Julie Cloudwalker — August 14, 2022 @ 10:18 pm

  3159. Has anyone heard from Manny Adler? His last posting on this site was August 8, 2022, #3151. I just tried to send him an email and received a prompt indicating that his email address has been disabled.

    Manny, if you are out there, please post something on this site?

    Thanks,

    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 16, 2022 @ 9:43 am

  3160. Phil O,

    Still here and checking in daily. I may be a bit mentally disabled but my email? Email still the same. Thanks for letting me know.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 16, 2022 @ 4:46 pm

  3161. Manny,

    As we age we have to take care to track each other. Even though I have been on this blog website for less than 10 years and consider myself one of the younger players, there are still several of the older statesmen that I have completely lost track of…

    Thank you for keeping in touch.

    Best regards,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 17, 2022 @ 7:37 am

  3162. ?

    ?Here is a snapshot of my time at Ft Holabird.

    Entered the Army as a 19 year old 15 July 1968, at Ft Benning Ga. Signed up to be a MP and while in basic training the DS told me to report to E-4 Jones in S-1. Jones knew me via baseball in high school. He told me that MP’s get killed in RVN and should change my MOS. He had looked at my records and stated that I qualified for MI. He gave me three choices, 96B, 96C, and 96D. Did not have a clue about MI. So I picked 96B since it was the first one on the list. lol

    Took my first airplane trip from Florida to Friendship airport/now BWI late Sept. Cab driver had never heard of the bird. I was in casual status for a few weeks working at the Guest house on post. Since I could type housing folks offered to keep as a clerk typist. Tempting but declined. Spent a lot of time at the gym, playing pool, and 123 club. Went to a Colts game and watched Johnny Unitas play. For extra money pulled CQ on weekends. Pulled KP on Thanksgiving day for 75 dollars. Most of my classmates were reservists (hawaii/conn/ny/mass) and some marines. After graduation in Dec and receiving travel money classmates started numerous poker and dice games in the barracks. Lots of money changed hands for some. Assigned to the 519th MI Bn RVN.

    Comment by Larry Boswell — August 17, 2022 @ 9:18 am

  3163. Phil,
    Thanks for keeping track, just checking in. 97B, 66-B-13, 12/65 to 3/66; LAFO, 115th MI Gp finished with 526th MI Det, Okinawa, 8/68. Great times, great memories. BTW, site is in my favorites and checking in is part of my daily routine. Thanks again

    Comment by Richard Duarte — August 17, 2022 @ 9:50 am

  3164. Hi Richard,

    I guess I get concerned when we loose people or even seem to loose people. In the past 2 years, I have lost a number of my friends from my high school graduating class, and I am only 75. Heck, I am one of the kids on this site.

    Thank you for continuing to post on our site!

    Thanks also to Manny and the other elder statesmen who continue to post!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 17, 2022 @ 12:39 pm

  3165. Here is a snapshot of my time at Ft Holabird.

    Entered the Army as a 19 year old 15 July 1968, at Ft Benning Ga. Signed up to be a MP and while in basic training the DS told me to report to E-4 Jones in S-1. Jones knew me via baseball in high school. He told me that MP’s get killed in RVN and should change my MOS. He had looked at my records and stated that I qualified for MI. He gave me three choices, 96B, 96C, and 96D. Did not have a clue about MI. So I picked 96B since it was the first one on the list. lol

    Took my first airplane trip from Florida to Friendship airport/now BWI late Sept. Cab driver had never heard of the bird. I was in casual status for a few weeks working at the Guest house on post. Since I could type housing folks offered to keep as a clerk typist. Tempting but declined. Spent a lot of time at the gym, playing pool, and 123 club. Went to a Colts game and watched Johnny Unitas play. For extra money pulled CQ on weekends. Pulled KP on Thanksgiving day for 75 dollars. Most of my classmates were reservists (hawaii/conn/ny/mass) and some marines. After graduation in Dec and receiving travel money classmates started numerous poker and dice games in the barracks. Lots of money changed hands for some. Assigned to the 519th MI Bn RVN.

    Comment by Larry Boswell — August 18, 2022 @ 4:58 am

  3166. ?Here is a snapshot of my time at Ft Holabird.

    Entered the Army as a 19 year old 15 July 1968, at Ft Benning Ga. Signed up to be a MP and while in basic training the DS told me to report to E-4 Jones in S-1. Jones knew me via baseball in high school. He told me that MP’s get killed in RVN and should change my MOS. He had looked at my records and stated that I qualified for MI. He gave me three choices, 96B, 96C, and 96D. Did not have a clue about MI. So I picked 96B since it was the first one on the list. lol

    Took my first airplane trip from Florida to Friendship airport/now BWI late Sept. Cab driver had never heard of the bird. I was in casual status for a few weeks working at the Guest house on post. Since I could type housing folks offered to keep as a clerk typist. Tempting but declined. Spent a lot of time at the gym, playing pool, and 123 club. Went to a Colts game and watched Johnny Unitas play. For extra money pulled CQ on weekends. Pulled KP on Thanksgiving day for 75 dollars. Most of my classmates were reservists (hawaii/conn/ny/mass) and some marines. After graduation in Dec and receiving travel money classmates started numerous poker and dice games in the barracks. Lots of money changed hands for some. Assigned to the 519th MI Bn RVN.

    Comment by Larry Boswell — August 19, 2022 @ 6:00 am

  3167. Phil,
    Thank you. “Elder statesman” sounds so much better than old fart (aka “alter kaker” for you German speakers out there).
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — August 19, 2022 @ 3:57 pm

  3168. Manny et al,

    Charles Marvin Parker passed away on 8/29/2022. He received his commission as an officer in 1962 and served in MI for almost 40 years. He had tours in the ROK and in South Vietnam. Later tours were in Tokyo and Nuremberg. He received his M.A. In Government while in military service. He also received the Bronze Star, the Joint Service Commendation Medal, the Army Commendation Medal and many other awards.

    We thank him for his service and may he Rest In Peace.
    (Baltimore Sun Death Notices, 9/4/2022)

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 4, 2022 @ 9:19 am

  3169. The former TV series MASH (1972 – 1983) is marking its 50th anniversary, debuting on 9/17/72. It was based on a novel written by H. Richard Hornberger, aka Richard Hooker, which followed his experiences in the Korean War.

    It helped the public deal with the emotional toll of Vietnam and illustrated the harsh conditions for future generations. It used the Korean War as a backdrop to discuss the then current military, social, and political issues surrounding the Vietnam War, which finally ended on 4/30/75 when the Saigon Airlift occurred.

    The show was a critically acclaimed success from the start, winning its first four Emmys (in all, it received 109 Emmy nominations and winning 14 times). It combined a brilliant match-up of comedy and drama with a wonderful cast and great character portrayals. It’s 1983 series finale remains the most-watched TV series episode in history.

    Unfortunately, about half of the principal cast has passed away leaving only a few to carry on with yearly remembrance dinners and emails. The survivors are all in their eighties now, except Radar O’Reilly (Cary Burghoff) who is only 79. Cary was the only actor who starred in the movie version of M.A.S.H. as well. RIP

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 4, 2022 @ 3:30 pm

  3170. Is this site still operational?

    Comment by Jack Lewis — September 14, 2022 @ 9:09 am

  3171. Jack,
    Yes!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — September 14, 2022 @ 5:11 pm

  3172. Hi Jack,

    As Manny said, yes, we are! Would you have any ideas, information, or questions that you would like to share or ask about M.I. or Fort Holabird?

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 14, 2022 @ 8:58 pm

  3173. Phil, like others I met a lady from Dundalk. Married now 53 years. 68-B-13 was my class. Never had to parade. Duty at Holabird (Technical Committee) until early out. Met Holabird alum during my 35 year federal law enforcement adventures. Retired near Annapolis, living the good life.

    Happy the site is up. So many great stories.

    Comment by Jack Lewis — September 16, 2022 @ 4:07 pm

  3174. In 1956, I attended the B-13 course. Was B-13 just training for special agents? Did the analysts attend a different course in the 1950s/60s? My MOS was 971.70, the nomenclature before later designations?
    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — September 16, 2022 @ 4:55 pm

  3175. Hi Jack,

    I have known a number of Holabird graduates who met and married their sweethearts from Dundalk. I am one myself. Can you email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 17, 2022 @ 10:38 am

  3176. Hello, 97B in 66-B-13, have enjoyed this site since 2009. Have heard from a few that I served with over the years. Take care all and thanks for keeping up the site.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — September 19, 2022 @ 9:55 am

  3177. Hello: Anyone out there or is site not working?

    Comment by Richard Duarte — October 18, 2022 @ 9:13 am

  3178. Richard,

    Was wondering the same thing. Book report time class: INVISIBLE STORM by Jason Kander. He was an Intelligence Officer in Afghanistan. Anyone read it?

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 19, 2022 @ 5:30 am

  3179. Richard, Manny et al,

    I am hoping to see a nice number of postings from our friends next month on Veterans Day!

    In the meantime, Happy Halloween to all!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 19, 2022 @ 7:17 am

  3180. Book report: 2034 by Adm James Stavridis, very real next WW

    Comment by Richard Duarte — October 19, 2022 @ 9:05 am

  3181. Obituary – Sadly, Ezra Edward Hill Sr. recently passed away at the age of 111 years. He is believed to be the oldest living man in the U.S. and the oldest WWII veteran in the the world. He was born in East Baltimore. Recently, he was asked his secret to his longevity. He said, “Don’t hate nobody. It’s cool, keep calm.” He was drafted at age 32 into the Army where he rose to the rank of sergeant and became a rifle marksman in a segregated unit of engineers. He sailed to England on D-Day plus 3 where he waded through the English Channel landing on the shores of France. After the war, he came home to marry and raise a family.
    After his passing, his remains were interred in one of the Baltimore areas local veterans’ cemeteries.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 19, 2022 @ 1:11 pm

  3182. RIP Sgt Hill, thank you for your service. My dad also drafted and served in airborne in the Philippines and Occupied Japan.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — October 20, 2022 @ 9:34 am

  3183. Great site for 50 year+ memories. Ft Holabird @ Sep 1964 for 97D course after basic; then to CRC at the Bird. Then cross-trained as 97C, and off to Charlie Co, nickel0duce, in late 1966 and quickly off to an “isolated station” for more than 18 months. Other places after language school. I saw comments from at least one alumni of COG that I might have unknowingly crossed paths with but didn’t recognize the name

    Comment by Joseph Smith — October 22, 2022 @ 1:41 pm

  3184. Happy to hear you “old timers” are still out there and doing well.
    See you on Veterans Day!
    Ed

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — October 23, 2022 @ 12:26 am

  3185. Ed,
    Where? Here? I hope!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 23, 2022 @ 6:06 am

  3186. Statistics – there are so many differing numbers that I tried to center on mainly one source for the most part – Wikipedia.

    * 16 million U.S. personnel served in WWII
    * between 300,000 – 400,000 were killed in action
    * between 167,000 – 240,000 of those who served are alive today

    * between 2,600,00 – 3,100,000 U.S. personnel served in the Vietnam during the War
    * approximately 58,000 were killed in action
    * between 775,000 and 1,000,000 of those who served in Vietnam remain alive today
    * almost 10,000,000 U.S. personnel served between 08/05/1964 – 05/07/1975 (Vietnam Era Veterans)

    All of the above numbers are approximations and are meant to give one a general summary of the statistics involved.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 23, 2022 @ 10:07 am

  3187. Ref. 3184
    Manny, here for sure!

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — October 25, 2022 @ 10:19 pm

  3188. Phil,
    What happened between WWII and Vietnam?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 29, 2022 @ 6:06 am

  3189. Manny,

    Well, there was the Korean War, 1950 – 1953.

    1,780,000 U.S. personnel served during the Korean Conflict*
    Approximately, 36,500 were killed in action*
    Approximately 500,000 of those who served are alive today**

    *Wikipedia
    **Korean War Veterans Memorial Foundation

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 29, 2022 @ 12:38 pm

  3190. Anyone interested in the Korean Conflict can join the Korean War Veterans Association. There is an associate membership for anyone as well as regular membership for those who served in Korea. The $25 yearly fee [there’s also lifetime membership] includes subscription to The Graybeards magazine that is issued every two months.
    Home page is http://www.KWVA.us How to Join Us

    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — October 29, 2022 @ 1:41 pm

  3191. Been away for a while. Glad everyone is still here. Like many 75 years is coming up soon for me. Still 19 in my head though. Like many of you!!

    Comment by Daryl — November 2, 2022 @ 11:05 pm

  3192. Daryl,
    Happy 20th!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 3, 2022 @ 5:11 am

  3193. Still here, 78 today, going 21!!

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 3, 2022 @ 9:04 am

  3194. Thanks Manny!! I noticed Phil and others on this website have gone through the 502nd MI Bn in Seoul. Check out my Facebook page called Seoul, Korea, Company B. 502nd MI Tracey Compound if you have Facebook. There are folks there that are not on this website for some reason??
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — November 3, 2022 @ 3:51 pm

  3195. Hi Daryl,

    Happy 20th or 75th, whichever applies!

    Hi Richard,

    Happy 78th or 21st, ditto!

    Manny,

    You and I are over the hill,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 3, 2022 @ 5:47 pm

  3196. Phil,
    You are just cresting, I’m bottoming. But someone else is steering.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 5, 2022 @ 5:58 am

  3197. Manny,

    What is a mere ten years difference between friends anyway?

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 5, 2022 @ 9:47 am

  3198. Been years since I have been to this web site. I got out of Holabird in January 1957 and went to Japan with 441st CIC Detachment – S2 – Counter Espionage-Soviet Section targeting the Soviet Embassy and in a reduction of forces in late 1957-1958 was sent to Korea with the 308th CIC Detachment in Seoul and assigned to S2 Counter Espionage – Special Investigations Team of five mainly interrogating NK espionage agents caught and later headed the team. In December 1958 declined an offer from CIA. One of the funniest stories that I remember from the Agents class was one person who probably should never have been there. Everyone remembers the “block” and all the strip joints. In our surveilance class our “subject” when in one of the strip joints. It was decided to send that person in to see what was happening. He was immediately “greeted” by a totally nude stripper who threw her arm around him, grabbed him by his “privates” and said “darling”. Needless to say he was dumbfounded. The person that we were surveiling got a few laughs in the critique afterwards. Jim

    Comment by James Cate — November 6, 2022 @ 5:25 pm

  3199. Happy Veterans Day to all of my Brothers!

    As you know, Veterans Day originated as Armistice Day which took place on November 11, 1919, the first anniversary of the end of WWI and coincidentally about one year after Fort Holabird was built.

    In 1954, after WWII and the Korean War, what began as Armistice Day became Veterans Day, with continued observance on Nov. 11.

    On this day, thank you for putting your lives on the line for your fellow countrymen. You deserve to be honored and respected!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2022 @ 10:04 am

  3200. Thank you Phil! I too wish you and all our Holabird Brothers and Sisters a memorable Veterans Day. It was an honor and a privilege to have served with you all.

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 11, 2022 @ 2:59 pm

  3201. Veterans Day is a day for remembering. Remembering all our brothers who have passed. Remembering those are still with us. Remembering all those who never made it to be a veteran.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — November 11, 2022 @ 8:33 pm

  3202. To all of my Holabird brethren on Veterans Day, it’s been an honor to serve with you.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 11, 2022 @ 8:58 pm

  3203. Amen!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 12, 2022 @ 6:53 am

  3204. I hope that all of my Holabird brothers & sisters had a Happy Veterans Day yesterday. I’ve been preoccupied with caring for my wife who recently underwent foot surgery. The surgery went well and she’s doing good. But she is unable to put any pressure on that foot so yours truly has been racing around the house doing her everyday chores as well as my own. This old guy is tired!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 12, 2022 @ 3:58 pm

  3205. Hi All,
    I too hope everyone had a Happy Veteran’s Day. I can commiserate with you Tony. My wife missed a step on the stairs and fell and broke her foot. I have been trying to keep up with all around the house. It does give me a greater appreciation for all that she does for me. Take care everyone and watch out for that last step!

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 13, 2022 @ 10:43 am

  3206. What a year. It must be a bad year for wives. My wife broke her hip this year too. I already do most of the cooking and cleaning (she works and I am retired) so that didn’t change much but she was home with me for about 4 months. Thank God she is back to work ;). Here’s to a better year! I hope all the wives are safe.

    Bill

    Comment by bill leach jr — November 14, 2022 @ 9:34 pm

  3207. och!! The last step must be the derivation of “misstep.”

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 15, 2022 @ 6:31 am

  3208. Taking one day at a time, but still enjoying life [thankful].
    My wife makes the dessert, but the younger generation now hosts Thanksgiving dinner.
    Can’t remember 1956 Thanksgiving at Seoul compound.
    Bernie

    Comment by bernard thielen — November 23, 2022 @ 2:53 pm

  3209. Wishing all my Holabird Brothers and Sisters a very Happy Thanksgiving from Limburg, Germany. Stay active and above all, healthy.
    And a special thank you to Craig for keeping this website up and running!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 23, 2022 @ 3:59 pm

  3210. Happy Thanksgiving to all my MI brethren!

    Phil

    Baltimore, MD (Home of Fort Holabird). Gone but not forgotten!!!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 23, 2022 @ 5:29 pm

  3211. Happy Thanksgiving to all my Holabird friends from Waterbury, Ct. Thinks are well.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — November 23, 2022 @ 9:52 pm

  3212. Happy Thanksgiving to all of our Holabirdians.
    I was at Holabird for three Thanksgivings. I managed to get home for two of them. I have to say that the one I stayed on post for was almost as good as going home. The food was great and the kitchen staff went above and beyond.
    Holabird was a great place to serve and I was really thankful to be able to serve it there.
    P S: A special shout out to Craig for keeping this site up and running.

    Comment by bill leach — November 24, 2022 @ 12:04 am

  3213. To all from the snow belt of cleveland,ohio: Thanks to all of you for being here and to Craig for making sure we remain here.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 24, 2022 @ 7:24 am

  3214. I was stationed at the Bird fall of 63 but spent thanksgiving in Washington with family friends. I did not know it but was on my way back to Korea after 971 training. Have spent a third of my life (now age 80} in investigations and law enforcement then went to medical school and spent another 38 years as a government physician and after govt retirement another 19 years as an ER physician. My wife and I are well and live in Paris Illinois. Not happy with the direction the country is going. Regards to all the alumni of the Birs and Happy Holidays. Greg Lawson

    Comment by Greg Lawson — November 24, 2022 @ 10:15 am

  3215. Thanks y’all for the shout-outs. It’s truly my honor and privilege to keep this site going for everyone. My thanks to each of you for your service.

    Comment by mtsprout — November 24, 2022 @ 2:54 pm

  3216. Happy Thanksgiving to my MI brothers and sisters! I hope that we all have a safe and enjoyable holiday weekend. I spent three Thanksgiving Days away from home – one in Frankfurt; one in Nurnberg; and one in Kassel, Germany. After I got back home and entered law enforcement, I spent many holidays working rather than being at home with my family. So it’s nice to be retired now.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 24, 2022 @ 6:44 pm

  3217. TL3-4853, Schulz speaking, sir.
    Oh, wait, that was the Buffalo (NY) FO 59 years ago…
    An OD ’57 Chevy 150 just sold for $48,000! Wonder what happened to my black one with U S ARMY 1F3704 on the underside of the hood…
    Phil- kindly note the change of email address.
    Thanks and greetings to all the old spooks… Oh, wait, that was Halloween.
    Season’s best all and hope y’all (livin’ in FL now) didn’t eat TOO much. Yeah, right.
    Bill

    Comment by Bill Schulz — November 24, 2022 @ 8:20 pm

  3218. Happy Late Thanksgiving to all! Thanks to Craig for keeping this site going. I was just thinking how much busier we all would have been back in the day with email instead of mimeographed reports etc….

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — November 28, 2022 @ 7:39 pm

  3219. Thanks to everyone for checking-in during the start of the holiday season! It is good to hear that you are doing well. Best wishes to those of you whose wives are facing health challenges. Many thanks to Craig Sprout for all of his support shown to us during the year in order to keep this site running effectively.

    Best always,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 29, 2022 @ 9:15 am

  3220. Hello All,
    Good to see all checking in. Just returned from a two week stay in South Carolina and Boston. Long planned, so my wife, broken foot and monster boot, visited a beautiful part of the country. Cold for us, but everyone insisted we brought the good weather with us. Take care everyone and happy holidays!

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 6, 2022 @ 10:29 am

  3221. All,
    I sometimes wonder what happened to the many posters over the years?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 8, 2022 @ 6:26 am

  3222. Manny et al,

    I also wonder what has happened to those who no longer post on our site. Whatever happened to the following individuals:

    Ben Burt

    James Bone

    Bob Hammel

    Timothy Neumann

    Dave Mitchell

    George Masson

    Ken Robinson

    I have combed through the website since Manny’s first posting and have collected all of the email addresses that postees have left since the site began. If you would like me to track down any of those who you have lost contact with, please let me know and I will try to reach them via email.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 8, 2022 @ 9:41 am

  3223. Happy Holidays to all former Holabird men and woman. I have many fond memories of the Bird and the Baltimore area. That includes my wonderful wife of 58 years a Baltimore native now transplanted to the Pacific Northwest.

    Comment by Daniel Ritchie — December 17, 2022 @ 8:34 pm

  3224. Hi Dan,

    My wife is also from the Baltimore area. We met while she was on vacation in Ocean City, MD. I was there as well with a couple of buddies. How did you and your wife meet?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 18, 2022 @ 5:01 pm

  3225. Dan / Phil

    It was a close call for me too. I met a girl from Sparrows Point while I was in the 96C course and we continued dating through my time at
    Ft. Meade. Then I transferred to the 66th MI, 18th MI Bn. In Germany and we lost contact.

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 19, 2022 @ 7:35 am

  3226. Does anyone have information amount someone they knew that may have married a woman or left a girlfriend behind from Birdland?

    Chris, who was originally from California, met and married his Dundalk lady who worked in the cafeteria. Tim, who served at Holabird from 1962 – 1965, met and married a gal from nearby Middle River. Charlie, originally from the west side of Baltimore, married a woman who typed his enlistment papers at a local recruiting office, just 30 minutes from the Fort. Jim, who I replaced for my overseas assignment in the ROK, met and married his wife Karen at a USO dance at the Bird. Finally, Walter, RIP, who spent all of his time at our Fort before retiring from the Army, met his wife who worked as a nurse at one of the local hospitals here.

    Does anyone have any similar stories at this special time of the year which is made for reminiscing?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 19, 2022 @ 10:05 am

  3227. I dated a girl that was a student nurse at the Luthern Hospital and she took me to meet her family in Arbutus (outside of Baltimore). I also dated a teacher that lived & worked in a town west of Baltimore and would come and visit her brother was lived in housing at the Bird with his family. Nothing serious with either one.

    I introduced two of my friends who were in an Analyst Course to two girls that were student nurses. They both married the girls. One friend, Johnny O. is still married to Sandy. The other friend, Grady, failed the course and was sent to Tanker School and unfortunately I lost track of him.

    After being assigned to an MI Team in Nurnberg, I met a beautiful German girl and things got serious but she did not want to come to the US and I did not want to stay in Germany, so we said good-bye. Instead, when I got home I started dating the girl next door and married her in 1971 and this coming Valentine’s Day we will celebrate our 52nd Anniversary.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — December 19, 2022 @ 11:04 pm

  3228. Married now for sixty-two years and counting (you know, the “’til death do us part” bit), the beginning was inauspicious.

    In 1958, Maureen was my sister’s roommate at UCONN and had been selected to be one of Sis’ bridesmaids. She came to my folks home in Woodcliff Lake, NJ, (WL) so they could go over wedding party plans, etc. I breezed in, got a quick introduction and was impressed by what a gorgeous but snobbish person she seemed to be.

    I breezed back out and promptly drove my new FIAT 600 to Philly to visit my then-current “true flame.” That didn’t end well.

    I had been selected by my future brother-in-law to be in the wedding party and he thought that, since I was a student at RISD (_hode _sland _chool fo _esign) in Providence, it would be great for me to pick up the stuck-up one in Storrs, CT, on my way to the October wedding doings in WL.

    Wouldn’t you know it, but she had a headache and barely said anything for the three hours we hummed along at the ridiculous sounding four thousand RPM per mile in fourth gear in the tiny 633cc four-banger powered (?) FIAT.

    Needless to say, we were “paired” at the ceremony, M in her copper-bronze dress and me in my “monkey suit.” Long story short (yeah, I know, it’s already too late!), being with her during all our waking hours over that weekend, I fell in love. We were engaged over Christmas and married the following Labor Day weekend.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — December 22, 2022 @ 3:16 pm

  3229. Phil- I met my wife in the blood bank at Johns Hopkin Hospital. I was donating blood for her dad who was having open heart surgery. She about me from her uncle. her kept trying to introduce us, but I kept declining. In the end he did win out and I am so grateful.

    Comment by Daniel Ritchie — December 22, 2022 @ 10:47 pm

  3230. Dan et al,

    Re: 3224 (cont.). I met my future wife Carolyn in 1980, but we didn’t get married until 1984. In between that time, she married one of my buddies who I was with us when all of us first met on that trip to Ocean City, MD. I was late to their wedding that day but I still managed to catch her garter at the wedding reception. They divorced about two years later. She and I married about four years after that and have been together for the past 38 years. An interesting side note is that because of our 8 and 1/2 year age difference, when I was graduating from Agent School in 1969, she was only in her first year at Holabird Middle School, just down the street. At that time, I was 21 and she was only 13 years of age. I am sure glad we waited to tie the not until she was a little bit older.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 23, 2022 @ 10:11 am

  3231. Hello to all and a wish for a safe and healthy holiday season. Christmas 1965 in Baltimore, at Holabird, Girlfriend from L.A., stayed at the Lord Baltimore; Christmas 1966 with the LAFO, 115th MI Gp, 15 minutes from home; Christmas 1967 at Camp Kue, Okinawa with the 526th MI Detachment, all great memories. take care everyone

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 24, 2022 @ 10:36 am

  3232. Merry Christmas and Happy holidays to all.
    Bless all the service men and women all over the world!
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — December 24, 2022 @ 11:21 am

  3233. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy New Year to all!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 24, 2022 @ 12:31 pm

  3234. Merry Christmas to all of my Fort Holabird friends!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — December 24, 2022 @ 11:28 pm

  3235. Good morning and the same to all of you and yours! Oh, and may Santa bring you only good news for the new year and beyond.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 25, 2022 @ 8:51 am

  3236. Phil reference #3268. I met my wife during SA training. She lived in Sparrows Point. 12 months later we got married at St. Rita’s in Dundalk. Still together, now 53 years. What a great ride.

    Happy Holidays and my wish for a Peaceful New Year.

    Comment by Jack Lewis — December 26, 2022 @ 6:10 pm

  3237. All,
    Going on 63 years with local (Cleveland girl, non-woke).
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 29, 2022 @ 6:20 am

  3238. Happy New Year to all.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — December 31, 2022 @ 2:54 pm

  3239. Holabird Brethern,

    Happy New Year! Good Health! Good Fiends! Close Family!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 31, 2022 @ 6:50 pm

  3240. OMG, I meant “Good Friends!!! LOL

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 31, 2022 @ 9:25 pm

  3241. Phil,
    Loved your last post. May be Freud was on to something.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 1, 2023 @ 8:20 am

  3242. A wish for a safe, healthy and a Happy New Year to all and a moment of remembrance for all who served and have passed beyond, take care.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — January 1, 2023 @ 10:45 am

  3243. Manny,

    As a good fiend (sic), I thank you!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 1, 2023 @ 2:23 pm

  3244. Even good fiends need a little love.

    Comment by bill — January 1, 2023 @ 9:47 pm

  3245. Happy New Year to my Holabird brothers and sisters!
    May 2023 bring you good health, happiness and peace!
    All the best from Germany. ??

    Comment by Gary Miller — January 2, 2023 @ 10:33 am

  3246. Gary,
    Und ein froelichen neues yahr auch zu ihnen. No umlaut on this keyboard, sorry. German a bit rusty. Oh well, I hope you will forgive me.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 8, 2023 @ 7:08 am

  3247. Manny,

    Absolut kein Problem mein Freund. Dein Deutsch ist immer noch sehr gut!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — January 8, 2023 @ 8:36 am

  3248. Back to English or its American version:
    Just wanted to kick-start the conversation. Gary, 3247, how did you end up staying in Germany and where?
    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — January 26, 2023 @ 5:26 pm

  3249. Manny,

    Long story, but I’ll cut it back. After Basic at Ft. Ord in 1968, went to Ft. Holabird in the 96C (Interrogator) course and went straight to Berlin as a 96C2L29 at the Joint Refugee Operations Center JROC), which was part of the 18th MI Bn, 66th MI Group. Spent 9 years at JROC and went back to California to university and majored in International Business. Upon graduation, got hired by Wilson Sporting Goods as Marketing Manager for Germany, Austria and Switzerland and then got head-hunted by Acushnet – Titleist and FootJoy ( if you’re a golfer, you’ll know those brands) and retired in 2015 as VP for EMEA (Europe, Middle East, Africa).
    Live now about 70 kilometers northeast of Frankfurt.
    Sorry if that was too long.
    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — January 27, 2023 @ 4:22 pm

  3250. Gary,

    Danke (thanks to the rest of us)!

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 28, 2023 @ 6:41 am

  3251. Hello, just to get a conversation going. With all the talk of misplaced secret documents and weather balloons being shot out of the sky it makes me think of some funny investigations at the school. I don’t know how many dossiers were started because of a question from an interested (or bored) bar-tender or waitress at many of the watering holes around the base. Every time a new agents course would start, a flood of students would come into S-2 to report a case of SAEDA (Subversion and Espionage Directed Against the US Army). Some one at the bar would ask if some one was a student or where they were from and the student would break out in a sweat not knowing if he was being tested by a spy or a plant from the post.If they reported him, we would have to open a file. I bet the organ player at the Holabird Inn had a bigger file than Lee Harvey Oswald.
    Any other stories? This site needs a balloon to shoot down.

    Comment by bill leach — February 18, 2023 @ 10:05 pm

  3252. Bill,
    Fascinating. Thanks. New book out if anyone interested: AMERICAN MIDNIGHT by Adam Hochchild. Much about Ralph van Deman and military intelligence during WWI and after. Interesting read for any history buffs out there.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 19, 2023 @ 7:13 am

  3253. Hello out there,
    Anyone else notice, the first post was February 17,2003!!! Over 20 years and still standing, 3252 posts later. Many have come and gone; thanks to those who have kept it going. Take care everyone.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 22, 2023 @ 10:35 am

  3254. Hi Richard, Manny, Bill, Gary, et al,

    It is through guys like you and some others who have kept this site going. Our love of MI and Fort Holabird, our age group familiarity, and our desire to share our related thoughts with our comrades help to keep us together.

    Toujours Avant!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 22, 2023 @ 7:30 pm

  3255. Here here posts 3253&3254! My 1st. Post(187) was Nov. 2009.
    I appreciate all you brothers that have experienced the halls of Ft. Holabird.
    Your dedication to this site is heartwarming and I look forward to visiting .
    Thank-you!!
    Ed

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — February 27, 2023 @ 1:23 pm

  3256. All,
    Found this site roughly one year after it’s initial post and joined up for it’s duration (or mine). Thanks Ed,et.al.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — February 28, 2023 @ 6:35 am

  3257. Manny, a number of years ago I saw a blog about Ft Holabird written by a gent named Don Valentine. It seems that the blog was about Parkway Rest Stop. I read it and saved it. But when I tried to open it yesterday, it was gone. I think that Don deserves credit for starting this wonderful site. I think that he was a 97B student at the Bird.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 12, 2023 @ 11:05 pm

  3258. Hello fellow BIRD Alumni! Scrolling through this great site over the past few days has brought back fond and special memories of the months (late Feb.’69 – late June ‘69) I spent at the Bird. Was a 97B40 CI Agent, Class 69-B-22. Am being repetitious, and concurring, with many prior comments – Dundalk fun times, aromas of neighboring factories/brewery, downtown Baltimore surveillance outings, Colgate Creek, bouncing bridge, Peter Poor, Peachy Keen, typing/map reading/lock picking classes, Fort Howard exercises-the “Village”, afternoon class sessions, trips to DC, major league baseball games, and most importantly, getting know and live with a unique group of quality and bright classmates.

    Arrived at the Bird, via Amtrak & local cab, Friday afternoon, Feb. 21st from Basic @ Ft. Jackson. There were four (4) of us, 97B enlistees, who went through Basic together, already friends. Our initial arrival experience was so similar to “FT Holabird or Twilight Zone”. Within 2 hours, we had settled in, were told “see you Monday AM”. We were back in a cab ASAP to Friendship Airport and a flight to LaGuardia. All of us were from Westchester County NY, finally heading home for the weekend after Basic. Drove back to Dundalk that Sunday evening with my own car!

    My Basic Amigos wound up starting the Agent class almost immediately. I was told my BI was being delayed, so I was “Casual” for about three (3) weeks. Was called in for an interview with whomever at the Bird. Asked if I had ever been to Eastern Europe/Russia? Turns out a nice, but somewhat absent-minded, Jesuit faculty member (secondary source) at my college had mistakenly told the agent he thought I had traveled to Russia. He had confused me with my Freshman/Sophomore year college roommate and good friend – Bob – who was a Classics/Russian Language major. Bob had spent two (2) summers in Eastern Europe/Russia on study abroad trips. Hilarious! So I finally started 97 Agent course mid-March, graduating last week of June.

    Our class mostly went to MI Groups stateside, and more than a few to various language schools. I remember the phrase “Area Studies” for some. Believe no one had orders for Vietnam. Assigned to 109th MI Group, Philadelphia Region II (?), Wilkes-Barre, PA FO – July ‘69 – March ‘70. Then to the 108th MI Group, Region I (NYC), Bronxville, NY FO, from April ‘70 – Sept. ‘71 (got an “early out” for grad school). Did mostly BI investigations in the north Bronx and southern Westchester County, with occasional work into Fairfield County, CT. Bronxville colleagues included Jerry Whitmore (Post# 1930 – 05.05.17) and Jim Kridel (Post# 567 – 12.18.2011). Hi Jerry! Hi Jim! Also liked Steve Schein and Frank Pavlak’s Posts #358-364 (09.2010) about the 108th MI Group and its various FO’s. Lots of memories again came back of my 108th MI Group experiences in the NYC metro area.

    Have always felt that my MI experiences – both at the Bird & subsequent FO assignments – were very special and important times in my life. Thanks again for this website!

    Gene Nolan
    Marietta, GA

    Comment by Gene Nolan — March 25, 2023 @ 3:35 pm

  3259. Decorated Army Veteran dies at age 101.

    COL Orville R. Hughes of Monkton, MD died this month at a hospice near his home of multiple organ failure.
    He fought in Germany during WWII where he was wounded, captured, and later, received the Purple Heart medal for suffering multiple wounds in battle. He remained in Germany after the war as a member of the occupation forces.
    During the Korean War, he was a tank commander with the 45th Infantry Division and fought at the battle of Heartbreak Ridge. For his heroic actions, he received the Silver Star and the Bronze Star.
    He returned to the U.S, after the war, where he attended Army Language School, gaining proficiency in German and Russian. Upon graduation, he was assigned to Military Intelligence.
    During the Cold War, he was an assistant Army attaché at embassies in Germany and Austria.
    During the Vietnam War, while still in MI, he was responsible for evaluating listening device effectiveness in the jungles which monitored the movement of VC troops and supplies.
    On retirement in 1983, he was an advocate for the American Patriotism in Maryland Schools Resolution which encouraged Maryland schools to invite veterans to speak to students about their military service. It was passed by the Maryland General Assembly.
    We thank him for his service and sacrifice. RIP

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 26, 2023 @ 10:55 am

  3260. Phil,

    Thank you for sharing the amazing military history of Col. Hughes….
    and what a résumé it is…..WWll, Korea, Vietnam and the Cold War.
    A true hero. Do you know if he was ever at Ft. Holabird?
    RIP Col. Hughes and thank you for your service.

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 26, 2023 @ 2:21 pm

  3261. Hi Gary,

    The obit. In the Baltimore Sun did not specify. Considering MI did not originate at Holabird, it would be hard to say without more information. The .Fort was started in 1917-1918 but MI did not come to the’Bird until after WWII.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 26, 2023 @ 3:23 pm

  3262. Today is National Vietnam Veterans Day. While I did see some comments on various US Army & Vietnam Facebook sites, there was nothing in our local paper or in the Yahoo news page or anywhere else that I looked.

    That’s pretty sad, I think. I hope that some of you brothers and sisters saw better coverage about this special day than I did. It would be nice to hear from you if you did.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 29, 2023 @ 10:23 pm

  3263. Tony,
    “Nada”, “nichts”, nothing.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 30, 2023 @ 5:20 am

  3264. Tony, Nothing in Ventura County, CA. Did hear from a VN vet with best wishes.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — March 30, 2023 @ 9:08 am

  3265. Tony,

    An American Legion post in Bel Air, MD, about 45 minutes from Ft. Holabird, held a small commemoration of the day. Guns, helmets, and photos were on display in the hall and veterans were served a free lunch.
    I also heard from a fellow veteran, a marine who served in Vietnam. He sent me a description of his assignment there, a map describing where he was in-country, and a few pictures featuring him at the forward operating base where he was assigned.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 30, 2023 @ 11:19 am

  3266. P.S. Korea and cold war( CIC’s hayday) about the same as Vietnam! “Bubkes”.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 30, 2023 @ 1:59 pm

  3267. Tony(post 3262),
    Thanks for letting us know that March 29 was Vietnam veterans day. I had no idea but it made one young (to me) vietnam vet’s day. I took my wife for an m.d. appointment and while there saw a gentlemen with a vietnam veterans hat, I walked up to him and his wife (I wanted his wife to know some us care) and thanked him for what he did for us. God he was beaming from ear to ear. He knew about the VN day but didn’t think anyone gave a darn(still cleaning up my language). I do not which one us felt better?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 1, 2023 @ 6:08 am

  3268. Manny,

    Thank you for reaching out to the Vietnam veteran and his wife and letting them know that some of us care. In the Baltimore area, I always speak to those veterans that I see wearing the black baseball caps signifying their service during WWII, Korea, and the Vietnam War and thank them for their service.

    God bless them!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 1, 2023 @ 8:22 am

  3269. Hi all, Read your comments about Vietnam Veterans day. My supervisor came over to me and thanked me. It was nice. I work for the State Government in Education. My organization is so afraid of itself on Veterans day, if they say anything at all, they say, “Have a nice day off.” I know we don’t go looking for thanks, but it is a sad day in America when appointed government officials are afraid to give a Veteran’s Day shoutout because they are afraid that it may offend someone else. I am 4th generation Army (both parents, two siblings, grandfathers and uncles, uncles, cousins, and other) and I grew up when service was appreciated. I know there are people out there who do appreciate us, it is just frustrating when it hits you in the face. As I have said before, USAINTC gave me all the skills I needed for the rest of my life. And for that I am forever grateful.

    Comment by David Warren Edmonds — April 12, 2023 @ 6:42 pm

  3270. David(3269),
    Hope it is not Ohio’s State Department of Education?
    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — April 13, 2023 @ 3:41 pm

  3271. Hi David,

    After having been on this site for some years, I can’t begin to tell you how many times I have heard MI types like you say how USAINTC gave them the skills they needed for the rest of their lives. I concur and I repeat as before, God bless our veterans!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 13, 2023 @ 9:55 pm

  3272. Still here but can’t log in on my home computer (something called a “trojan” popping up. Contacted Craig. Anyone else having problem? Having withdrawal symptoms so writing this from library computer Not quite dead yet. Perhaps some kind of malware problem. Will have one of the kids check this out and will be back after fixed.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 21, 2023 @ 1:01 pm

  3273. Manny,

    Good luck with your logging-on challenge. We all look forward to having you back on a regular basis. I have had no such problem getting on to the website.

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 21, 2023 @ 10:54 pm

  3274. Hello: No problems logging on, check it every day, good luck.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — April 22, 2023 @ 9:35 am

  3275. No problems here either Manny!

    Comment by Gary Miller — April 22, 2023 @ 1:58 pm

  3276. Thanks all. Son-in-law Nick fixed (he is computer “geek” at Kent State University (yes THAT kent State). Now I can back to annoying all of you.
    Manny
    p.s. Thanks for the concern.

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2023 @ 4:09 pm

  3277. Back on thanks to son-in-law Nick. Works IT at Kent State University (yes, that one).
    Thanks all. Now I can get back to aggravating you.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2023 @ 4:13 pm

  3278. Back on but post not showing up.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2023 @ 4:15 pm

  3279. back on. Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2023 @ 4:53 pm

  3280. back on

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2023 @ 5:09 pm

  3281. I’M back on. Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2023 @ 5:10 pm

  3282. I’m back. Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2023 @ 5:12 pm

  3283. Can anyone read this post? Please let me know.

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2023 @ 5:39 pm

  3284. Can you read this?

    Comment by manny adler — April 22, 2023 @ 5:42 pm

  3285. can get on but my posts not showing on site.

    Comment by manny adler — April 23, 2023 @ 5:51 am

  3286. Still trying.

    Comment by manny adler — April 24, 2023 @ 5:46 am

  3287. Thanks all. Can get on but can’t post from home computer. Using local library to post this. Any ideas? I guess site allows me to “see” but not “speak”. I’ll ask a local first grader to fix.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 24, 2023 @ 9:28 am

  3288. Just checking.

    Comment by manny adler — April 24, 2023 @ 4:48 pm

  3289. YEA! Let’s hope it stays. I was experiencing DT’s from withdrawal.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — April 24, 2023 @ 4:50 pm

  3290. Manny,

    Congrats and Welcome Back!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 24, 2023 @ 6:05 pm

  3291. I think that Manny is back! Welcome back Manny!

    Tony

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — April 24, 2023 @ 6:19 pm

  3292. Hi Manny, he fixed it but now you stutter. ?

    Comment by bill leach — April 24, 2023 @ 8:23 pm

  3293. Bill(3292),
    Funny, but now it makes sense. He said his name was “Porky”.
    “And that’s all folks” as he left.
    Mannnnny

    Comment by manny adler — April 26, 2023 @ 5:27 am

  3294. Welcome back Manny!
    1st it’s the Cleveland Indians name change to the Cleveland Guardians then Manny denied access to our site! Something not right!
    If it was tomorrow I’d have to cry May Day,May Day!
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — April 30, 2023 @ 11:52 pm

  3295. Ed(3294),

    “May Day” could get your security clearance lifted.
    Manny
    p.s. Cleveland who?

    Comment by manny adler — May 2, 2023 @ 5:20 am

  3296. Hello to all. I hope we can all take a minute tomorrow to say a prayer for all of our fallen hero’s. Also to remember all of the active duty personnel away from home on this long weekend.
    I hope you all have a wonderful day and a great summer.

    Comment by bill leach jr — May 28, 2023 @ 7:58 pm

  3297. Tomorrow is the day to remember those in our past who gave their last full measure of devotion in support of our country.

    For me, that represents at least two of my heroes, among many others who gave their all.

    PVT John Willcocks was my 6th great uncle. He died age 49 defending the army of General George Washington who retreated from Fort Washington in New York to New Jersey, just ahead of advancing British troops.

    SFC James Gordon was my Army Recruiter in 1968. He died at age 28, 5 days before the end of his tour, as a result of an accidental helicopter crash in Vietnam. He left a young wife and 2 children.

    We honor their willingness to serve and sacrifice and to put all of us before themselves.

    Have a thoughtful Memorial Day.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 28, 2023 @ 10:03 pm

  3298. Amen!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — May 29, 2023 @ 6:27 am

  3299. Hello to all:
    A prayer for all who have fallen. A mention for one cousin lost in Korea, Michael Lopez, There are few alive today who knew him but it’s important that we recognize his sacrifice. Famous appropriate quote: “Every man has two deaths, when he is buried in the ground and the last time someone says his name. In some ways men can be immortal.” ? Ernest Hemingway

    Comment by Richard Duarte — May 29, 2023 @ 9:57 am

  3300. A day of solemn remembrance indeed!
    God bless America.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — May 29, 2023 @ 12:17 pm

  3301. E. Dale Adkins III passed away on June 1st. He was 76. He enlisted in the Army and received counterintelligence training at Fort Holabird in 1970. He then attended language school in Arlington, VA and served in Korea as a counterintelligence special agent. After his military service, he had a successful career as an medical malpractice attorney in Baltimore after graduating from the University of Maryland School of Law.

    A friend and fellow Holabird graduate, Stuart F. Sands said that he had met Dale there and maintained a friendship of over 50 years, never having had an argument. He was also known as someone you could trust and depend on…

    RIP and thank you for your service

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 11, 2023 @ 9:52 am

  3302. Very sad news Phil.
    RIP Brother.

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 11, 2023 @ 3:24 pm

  3303. Been away. Hope all are well!
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — June 19, 2023 @ 1:49 am

  3304. Daryl,

    Glad you are back! The ranks are thinning and we need all the troops on line (or “the line” as in front).
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 19, 2023 @ 5:59 am

  3305. Daryl, Manny et al,

    Now might be a good time for a Roll Call!

    I will start us off as follows:

    This is Phil Ostrander from Baltimore County, MD

    Everyone, please chime in!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 19, 2023 @ 8:31 am

  3306. Hello All:
    Still standing, this is Richard Duarte, 78, from Oxnard, CA, B-13-66, Ft. Holabird.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — June 19, 2023 @ 9:52 am

  3307. Good evening:
    Gary Miller here, writing from Giershausen (70 km northwest of Frankfurt) Germany. Ft. Holabird, 1968 96C2L29

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 19, 2023 @ 1:19 pm

  3308. Bill in Boston still hanging on.

    Comment by bill leach — June 19, 2023 @ 8:21 pm

  3309. Charlie Brown, Still standing in Cashiers, NC.

    Comment by Charlie Brown — June 20, 2023 @ 8:55 am

  3310. George Masson here in Kensington, Maryland. Ft. Holabird class B-16-68; 97B40H.

    Comment by George Masson — June 20, 2023 @ 4:31 pm

  3311. Just comleted my second [both eyes] cataract surgery at 90.
    Holabird 1956.
    Now Huntington Beach, CA.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — June 21, 2023 @ 3:24 pm

  3312. Hi Bernie.
    Glad you are back as we overlapped at Holabird and things are clearer for you. Boy are we old.
    My best to you.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — June 21, 2023 @ 5:26 pm

  3313. Daryl here from Seattle, 75 years old and. Still moving somewhat. It was better to be 20 in the 70s than 70 in the 20s!!

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — June 22, 2023 @ 12:15 am

  3314. A Sign of Our Times?

    Thanks to all of you who wrote in to answer the request concerning the latest Roll Call. It seems that the age range for our group is now between 75 and 90 years of age. Please stay healthy!

    In the meantime, recent news from the Dundalk Eagle indicates that a small tent city, housing the homeless, has sprung up on the corner of Holabird and Dundalk Aves. near the old bus stop. It has been observed that some people occupying the tent city generally congregate in nearby Dundalk Shopping Center and Veterans Park to panhandle and purchase drugs. Because the tent city is located in Baltimore City just across the Baltimore County line, the heads of both local police departments and other government agencies are coordinating in order to assist the residents.

    God bless the Ocean Gate Titan 5 Crew!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 22, 2023 @ 7:21 am

  3315. Tony here and I’ll be turning 79 next month! Still here in Solano County, California not far from Travis AFB.

    My much younger wife is having health issues so I’m spending a lot of time helping her around the house and driving her to medical appointments.

    Take care my friends!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — June 22, 2023 @ 1:12 pm

  3316. God bless you and your wife Tony. He never burdens us with more than we can handle but sometimes it is a damn struggle. Hang in there and I’m sure there will be a lot of prayers combing your way from this site for you and your wife.
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — June 22, 2023 @ 8:40 pm

  3317. Jim here in Hamilton Square NJ and Westport Island ME. Turned 78 this last February. Almost didn’t make it last December right before Christmas so very glad to be able to check in.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — June 23, 2023 @ 7:25 am

  3318. Tony Montemayor….wishing your wife a speedy and total recovery.

    Comment by Gary Miller — June 24, 2023 @ 10:13 am

  3319. Hi Tony,

    I echo the comments of your friends in wishing your wife a speedy recovery. I will keep the both of you in my prayers.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 24, 2023 @ 3:30 pm

  3320. The passing of James Christopher “Chris” Blackman.

    Chris passed away on 6/15/2023 at the age of 93. He was a Korean War Era Veteran having spent all of his military service at Fort Holabird. He was born in Illinois, spent time in California, and after his service spent the rest of his life in Dundalk, MD. He met his future wife at Holabird while she was working at the post commissary. They raised a daughter and two sons. After his three year service stint at “the Bird”, he spent the reminder of his employment experience outside of the military.

    For a audio glimpse into his wartime experience, in his own words, you can Google his name or type the following: http://www.loc.gov>item>afc2001001

    May he rest in peace and may his memory be a blessing.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 26, 2023 @ 8:17 am

  3321. Re: #3319

    There seems to be a problem with the website address that I listed in red in the above posting not being available. Instead, please type in the following:

    James Chris Blackman Collection

    That will take you to an approximate 30 minute Q & A between Chris and his interviewer. This is a personal narrative that is part of the Library of Congress’ Veterans History Project.

    I am sorry about the error.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 26, 2023 @ 12:28 pm

  3322. Edward Hotchkiss, class R11, 1966-1967 checking in with accompanying good health and prayers for our Nation.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — June 26, 2023 @ 7:40 pm

  3323. This is not the Baltimore I remember in the mid-50’s.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — July 2, 2023 @ 5:40 am

  3324. Phil,

    I listened to the James Chris Blackman interview last night. Extremely interesting and brought back loads of memories of our beloved Ft. Holabird. Although James was there 17 years before me, much of what he learned and experienced sounded very similar!
    Thanks once again for sharing!
    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — July 2, 2023 @ 8:25 am

  3325. Gary,

    Thank you for posting your comments!

    I met Chris Blackman (who was another guy who married a local gal while stationed at Ft.Holabird) at a meeting of the Dundalk-Patapsco Neck Historical Society in 2015. I was there to do a presentation on the history of the post. Weeks later, we met for lunch, along with two other veterans of the “Bird” (Jim Dittbrenner and Tim Neuman) at the VVA Lounge (the former Officers Open Mess building). Unfortunately, after that, we lost contact.

    Best regards,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 2, 2023 @ 10:05 am

  3326. Im still here Have not posted anything in a long while. Alot of health issues but wht complain Happy 4th to my fellow Holabird veterans and their families. Stay safe and stay healthy everyhone.

    Comment by CHARLES GOFFREDO JR — July 3, 2023 @ 4:33 pm

  3327. Happy and safe 4th of July to all.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — July 4, 2023 @ 9:11 am

  3328. Phil, thanks for the roll call. Still going strong at 77. Trying, always trying, to improve my photography. Headed to Norway in two weeks, so opportunities abound. Any 68-B-13 guys out there? Belated happy 4th.

    Warmest regards,
    Jack

    Comment by Jack Lewis — July 7, 2023 @ 6:59 am

  3329. Hi Jack,

    Thanks! I am right behind you turning 76 next month. Still working on my hobby which involves building online shadow boxes of deceased former military members for family and friends. I have done 77 so far.

    Please let us know about how your trip went to Norway when you return.

    Best regards,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 7, 2023 @ 1:19 pm

  3330. According to the latest edition of the Dundalk Eagle, on July 21st, Baltimore City Police, first responders, and outreach workers cleared out the homeless encampment on the corner of Dundalk and Holabird Avenues, not far from the former main entrance to Fort Holabird. This blighted temporary arrangement had been a health concern and an eyesore since the beginning of this year. For those of you without cars while assigned to “the Bird”, this is where some would catch a transit bus to go into downtown Baltimore and to reach other points of interest in the area.

    Several people in the camp had used drugs during the daytime and panhandling at the intersection was very common. Although the camp was located just inside the city line, Baltimore City and County Police agreed to work together to prevent a similar arrangement from being set up in the future. Both agencies promised to help homeless people connect with the appropriate resources to assist them in fulfilling their ongoing housing needs.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 28, 2023 @ 2:11 pm

  3331. Better late to the party than not at all. Alive ‘n kickin’ in Lake County, Florida.
    Turned into a “Rocket” last week… well, that’s the way I associate my age with the Olds hot rod launched when I was a “green” 14 year old in ’49, “Introducing, The new Oldsmobile Rocket 88!”
    Still able to easily mow my lawn with a walk-behind power mower and other “buckeroo”-sorts of stuff but a not-quite-keeping-up spouse is retracting my horizons. No more hiking into our favorite waterfalls up in Transylvania County in western NC. God worked overtime building that bit of land they call the Blue Ridge.
    A belated “best to all” and blessings on you all!

    Comment by Bill Schulz — July 28, 2023 @ 8:47 pm

  3332. Bill(3331),
    Loved your post, especially the”retracting my horizons”.
    Manny
    p.s. And was not”rocket 88″ one of, if not, first first rock and roll songs?

    Comment by manny adler — July 29, 2023 @ 6:28 am

  3333. Hi everyone! I’m sure that most of you have heard about the terrible wildfires in Maui and the tremendous loss of life and property.

    It has been our (wife & I) favorite vacation spot since we stopped going to South Lake Tahoe some years ago. Also, our daughter lived in Maui for several years. And now two large areas have been wiped out.

    I hope and pray that none of our Ft Holabird brothers and sisters were affected by this disaster.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — August 19, 2023 @ 3:50 pm

  3334. Haven’t checked the site for a while and missed the roll call. Still kicking at 76 in Lakewood, CO. Any 69-B-3 grads out there?

    Comment by Denis Spelman — August 28, 2023 @ 5:46 pm

  3335. Denis,

    Thanks for checking-in for the roll call! It is always good to hear from a fellow seventy-sixer. We are the so-called babies of our group.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 29, 2023 @ 10:31 pm

  3336. I recently contacted a guy I know at the Baltimore VVA Post 451 about the lounge schedule for the former officers open mess building at what was Fort Holabird. From a 7 day a week schedule, they are now down to the first and third Friday of every month (the result of possible dwindling membership).

    So, if you plan to come to Baltimore for a tour of what is the last free-standing building of our alma mater as well as Colgate Creek, “Tank Hill”, Cummins Apartments, now called Portside Apartments, and the surrounding business park, you may want to contact Ralph (NLN), the VVA Lounge Manager, 410 336-0351. to confirm the fact that they are open for business.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 18, 2023 @ 9:03 am

  3337. Did any of you serve with a Roger Welchens in Frankfort, Germany Counterintelligence? Just ran across his obituary in the Cleveland Plain Dealer (9/4/23). Crossed paths his him once While both taught at John Caroll University and had no idea he was CIC. Oh well, that’s our TS legacy I suppose.
    Manny

    ts legacy

    Comment by manny adler — September 24, 2023 @ 6:03 am

  3338. Ref. 3336

    Phil….it saddened me to read your post about the VVA Post 451 and the last remaining building from our beloved Ft. Holabird….a place that meant so much to so many of us and a place that changed so many of our lives.
    The Ft. Holabird experience gave my life a direction I doubt would ever have happened without it and today I’m one of the 76 year olds you mentioned in an earlier post!
    Isn’t there even a memorial at the old location in Dundalk to commemorate Ft. Holabird? There certainly should be!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — September 24, 2023 @ 10:10 am

  3339. Gary et al,

    It is good to hear from you. Currently, there is no memorial at the old location in Dundalk or in southeast Baltimore commemorating Fort Holabird. However, there is a silver permanent marker on a post noting the former presence of our beloved base. It reads among other facts, “Housed the Army Intelligence School from 1945 until closure in 1972.” It is located on Dundalk Ave. just south of Holabird Ave.

    If you would like to see a picture of this marker, just Google the following:
    Camp Holabird
    The Historical Marker Database

    On that site, you will also find three other pictures:

    1. General Holabird’s Grave Marker (found in Washington, D.C.)
    2. A picture of Gen. Holabird in uniform
    3. The Holabird Business Park sign

    It is curious to note the the base lasted only 55 years (1917 – 1972) and the USAINTS building was only in use by the school from 1955 – 1972 for a total of only 17 years.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 24, 2023 @ 3:49 pm

  3340. Gary, there is a short (4 min.) grainy home video on You Tube. Just do a Fort Holabird search.

    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — September 24, 2023 @ 8:34 pm

  3341. While searching for some info on Fort Holabird, I came across a training film. It was interesting and brought back a flood of memories. Some of you might find it interesting too.

    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — September 24, 2023 @ 9:16 pm

  3342. OPPS, I forgot to post the link.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLN1gJdJpo4

    Comment by bill leach — September 24, 2023 @ 9:23 pm

  3343. Thanks Bill! I’ll check it out.

    All the best,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — September 25, 2023 @ 6:25 am

  3344. Just want to kickstart our beloved site. What reminded me to check in was the mess that greeted me on the news yesterday (Middle East).
    Mannny

    Comment by manny adler — October 9, 2023 @ 6:07 am

  3345. Manny,

    It certainly is a mess. As I am sure you know, Israelis must serve in the reserves until age 55. My youngest nephew is in his late thirties and my sister and I are concerned that his unit may be called up. She and her husband have lived in Israel for over forty-five years.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 9, 2023 @ 8:08 am

  3346. Phil, I hope all is well with your family and a hope that it ends soon.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — October 10, 2023 @ 9:12 am

  3347. Hi Richard,

    Thank you for your good wishes. I am in constant touch with my sister and two of her sons. As Manny said it is very much a mess. It also has the potential to bring in more players from the area if Hezbollah gets involved. I pray that cooler heads will prevail on both sides.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 10, 2023 @ 11:18 am

  3348. Manny-
    Re: Post #3332, Maureen and I moved around so much in the first 10 years of marriage we never got around to kids. The result is that this ol’ foof’s musical tastes ended with the advent of R&R. Never grew out of the swing era. Been a long dry spell for me, something like close to 65 years.
    Best, all,
    Bill

    Comment by Bill Schulz — October 16, 2023 @ 9:13 pm

  3349. Bill,
    Swing, isn’t that the new stuff? So what year were you born?
    When were you at the Bird?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — October 17, 2023 @ 5:30 am

  3350. Someone, please post, It’s getting lonely out here.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 5, 2023 @ 7:01 am

  3351. Hi Manny,

    How are you? Do you think it is time for a team check-in?

    Thanks,

    Phil Ostrander
    Baltimore County
    (Former Home of Fort Holabird)

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 5, 2023 @ 7:34 am

  3352. Hello All:
    Still here, just celebrated #79! It was only 58 yrars ago that I was at the Bird in Agent class B-13-66. Take care out there.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 5, 2023 @ 10:36 am

  3353. Checking in.
    Our local CIC lunch every month in Orange Co., CA has 6-8 attendees every month w/ over half wives. In the good old days we had 20-25.
    Two attendees [males] are in their mid-90s and no longer drive.
    After cataract surgery, I’m now comfortable driving at night.
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 5, 2023 @ 4:39 pm

  3354. Checking In:

    Bernie’s post# 3353, wow, I sure wish that we had something like your get togethers up here in Northern California! Sounds great!

    I’m doing well here in Rio Vista (Solano County), California.
    I attended the Agent Course from May to Aug 1965 (65-B-16) and graduated from the MI Coordinator Course as the Group Leader (Aug thru Oct 1965) Course# 66-C-2.

    On this date, 58 years ago, I had just arrived in West Germany after having my orders for Vietnam rescinded. I was assigned to the 531st MI Co (Collection) and immediately loaned to the 513 INTC Group at Frankfurt Station thru June 1966.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 5, 2023 @ 5:09 pm

  3355. Hi all, I also received my orders 58 years ago assigning me to 2 1/2 years of what would become some of the best years of my life. I, along with 22 of my classmates were assigned to Fort Holabird. The school (USAINTS) was starting up it’s own S-2 to grant and validate security clearances for all incoming students and permanent party personnel. Me and my best friend Rick were assigned to start the office. We finally got an S2 officer about 2 weeks later. We also had a civilian woman who came over from the post S2 USAINTC to help set up our S2. It was a very interesting assignment and it made the 3 years fly bye.
    God bless our vets and service men and women.

    Comment by Bill Leach jr — November 6, 2023 @ 12:43 pm

  3356. Bill, you and I were in the same MI Coordinator course. I did not remember that so many of my classmates had to stay at Holabird!

    I remember that only a few members of our class took a train to NYC after graduation and we boarded a troopship for Germany.

    I’m glad that you enjoyed your assignment at Holabird. For me, I wanted to go overseas – Vietnam first – but Germany turned out to be an excellent assignment for me!

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 6, 2023 @ 2:01 pm

  3357. Went from BT in Ft. Ord in 1968 to the Bird and graduated as a 96C2L29
    (German Language Interrogator). From there to 66th MI Group, 18th MI Battalion, with field station Berlin – JROC (Joint Refugee Operations Center). Bless all of our Ft. Holabird veterans.

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 6, 2023 @ 8:11 pm

  3358. Yes Tony, 22 of our classmates got assignments to Holabird. After 2 1/2 years we all were still there. We were “frozen” because we were assigned to a school. The army figured it was better to keep us there instead of training new personnel to do our job. They could keep the flow going for the buildup.

    Comment by Bill Leach — November 6, 2023 @ 10:33 pm

  3359. Bill, I’m shocked! I had no idea that that many of our class stayed at Holabird! While I was the Group Leader and had to direct everyone around and give them their orders, I didn’t scrutinize them.

    I just looked up our Class Roster and saw that our class had 48 members. I’m amazed that nearly half of the class remained at the Bird and had no chance to leave.

    Also, I found the orders that sent me to Germany. Three other classmates (Jimmy Turner, Phil Pasco, and Ed Mooney) went with me to Germany.

    I wonder where the other 22 guys went? Back then we had MI people all over the world. I had one friend that got sent to Ethiopia and he was an MI Coordinator in a class before ours.

    The guys that I worked with at Nurnberg Field Team all got sent to Vietnam in 1967 except for one who went to Ft Knox as the SAIC at the Knox Field Office.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 6, 2023 @ 11:33 pm

  3360. Hi Tony. I thought I had a copy of my orders assigning me to Holabird that listed all 22 of us but I can’t find it. I’ll keep looking. We just happened to graduate at the same time the army was starting USAINTS (the school) separating it from USAINTC (Command). so they needed many more men to staff the new school departments.

    Comment by Bill Leach — November 7, 2023 @ 3:49 pm

  3361. Thank you for the info Bill. It does make sense now why they held so many back. So none of you guys ever had a chance to leave? That must have been very disappointing to the guys that wanted to go overseas.

    I know that I would have been disappointed if I had not been allowed to leave Holabird. I did have a girlfriend or two in the area but still.

    If you come across the copy of your orders, would you please attach it to an email and send it to me? Thank you.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 7, 2023 @ 4:10 pm

  3362. A question: Did those of you assigned to Holabird after training have to pull KP, guard duty, etc(assuming you were enlisted personnel).? Always (at least after reading these posts)wondered.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 8, 2023 @ 6:50 am

  3363. Yes Manny, I did for the first year after graduating. Then I got “Volunteered” for honor guard at graduations. Those of us on the guard didn’t have any extra duty. When I had about 6 months left in my enlistment, 1968, they hired all civilian KPs.

    Comment by Bill Leach Jr — November 8, 2023 @ 3:40 pm

  3364. Re: 3362
    In my 3 years, I never pulled guard duty although I did pull night duty officer (sic) at Fort Bragg/Fort Liberty, while assigned to the Fayetteville Field Office. The only KP I ever had was in basic training at Fort Bragg. One stint lasted for 23 hours. The mess sergeant kept us re-doing the pots and pans, over and over again. He would pull them off of the shelves and let them crash to the floor in the mess hall.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 8, 2023 @ 3:52 pm

  3365. Similar for me Phil. I had KP once, during Basic at Ft. Ord. Had to peel what felt like 1000 potatoes. Haven’t peeled one since!

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 8, 2023 @ 4:07 pm

  3366. Oh man! I would have hated to pull KP after graduationg and I guess you were “permanent party” at that point. Although, I suppose that might have been a common occurence at Army posts in the US. I don’t know.

    So now the question is: How many of you had to pull KP once you got to your duty stations?

    I never had to. In fact, because I was in civilian clothing status for my entire service after I left Holabird, I was not even allowed to eat at a chow hall. I was on BAS the entire time.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 8, 2023 @ 9:38 pm

  3367. HI, I had one 20 hour KP in Basic at Ft.Polk, then never again. At Holabird,I think we had civilians (1965-66). Then Los Angeles Field Office (at home) and Camp Kue and Naha, Okinawa were off base or in Club. Great itmes

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 9, 2023 @ 10:05 am

  3368. Gary et al,

    With civilians taking over a lot of what we used to have as duties, I guess we wouldn’t recognize today’s Army. No more KP, spit shining of boots and shoes, polishing brass, and civilian guards at some of the post entry gates, things have certainly changed.

    We had it a lot tougher in the old days (sic).

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 9, 2023 @ 2:32 pm

  3369. Phil(3368),
    Amen!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 9, 2023 @ 4:00 pm

  3370. Tony.
    Reference #3354
    Trivia again. Just some names.
    Prior to our Orange Co, SoCal lunches, three of us from the LA area met with CICers from the San Diego area for monthly lunches at the NCO Club, Camp Pendleton. James {Jim} Mallek and his wife would drive a half hour to my home and then an hour to Camp Pendleton. When their chief organizer died, no more lunches at Camp Pendleton.
    By coincidence, Stan Solin organized Orange Co. lunches not too long after that, although he was not a Pendleton goer. Most of the attendees were from OC since the restaurant was in OC.
    Jim Mallek attended the OC lunches and told this story. He complained to his CIC boss that he wasn’t going to spend hours w/o a break again in a cramped area above a celling in order to collect info. Immediately after that he was transferred out, but responded by joining the CID for the rest of his army career.
    Tom Hashimoto and his wife drove two hours from SD to attend the OC lunches.
    Richard [Dick] Gardner flew from Dewey, AZ to attend, usually with his son who lived locally.
    Gordon Cooper {?} told this story. When he was in training at Holabird, he participated in a marathon in Baltimore. His photo was in the newspaper because he won the race. Monday morning he was told to see the commanding officer – he thought for a chewing out. Instead the CO said he would be assigned to Fort MacArthur [LA county] so he could train and try out for the 19?? Olympics. He didn’t qualify. Fort MacArthur is named after General MacArthur, father of General Douglas MacArthur.
    Many wives attended although I’m sure they were bored with the war stories. One time I talked to Roger Miller’s {?} wife about my sister-in-law belonging to a quilting circle where they had their own building with two “racks” for making charity quilts. She corrected me on the correct name for rack [I don’t remember]. When leaving the lunch she made a point of telling me with enthusiasm that this was the best lunch ever for her.

    Comment by bernie thielen — November 9, 2023 @ 4:47 pm

  3371. Phil,

    Similar to Tony’s 3366 comments, I was on civilian status from the time I left the Bird until separation from the military, so never had KP, spit-shined boots/shoes, polished brass, etc. In fact,the CO at our interrogation center (Joint Refugee Operations Center) in Berlin,ordered me to grow a moustache and sideburns.

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 9, 2023 @ 4:53 pm

  3372. Re# 3370. Bernie, you definitely had some faithful members of your CIC lunch group and their great wives that supported their husbands.

    Nothing of the sort here in NorCal but I wish there was a similar group. But because there were few of us in MI, and many of us in civilian clothing status, I can understand why that is.

    In addition, the Viet Nam War pulled many of our team members from our unit in Germany and CONUS and that kept us from staying in contact with each other for very long. That did not help in forming lifetime friendships, I guess.

    Thank you for sharing.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 9, 2023 @ 5:49 pm

  3373. Warning. The following is a summary of previously posted comments.
    We had no KP at Seoul Headquarters in 1956-7. I assume good use of confidential funds.
    We had gate [personnel and jeeps] duty [three of us with four hours on and four hours off during the duty day] every six {?} months with Korean guards patrolling the perimeter 24 hours per day.
    For Saturday inspections, the house boy/mama-san would clean our area while we ate breakfast. So, just a formality.
    During the annual IG inspection, we were dinged for no exercise and no propaganda sessions. So the officers and the rest of us exercised for 3-4 days before work until the officers said enough. But we had to have one hour [4-5 PM] of propaganda each week conducted by the EMs themselves with no officer participation.
    Every six {?} months we had courier duty. Was spending 12 hours on a Korean train to cover 250 miles w/o talking to anyone onerous?
    All of the above is in the context of generally just working 8-4 PM. We played volleyball from 4-5 weather permitting. During the monsoon, we drank three martinis in 50 minutes [bar didn’t open until 5] so that we could get to the mess hall 10 minutes before closing at 6 PM.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 9, 2023 @ 8:04 pm

  3374. Bernie, I love your comment! It made my day!

    It also reminded me that during my last five months of my tour, my team in Kassel Germany, did have some sort of inspection. We were “gigged” for not having a PT program. So like good soldiers, we immediately began playing touch football. That lasted for about four days before we realized that although it was fun, it also caused us to sweat.

    So our OIC created a different PT program for the team. It was called the Friday Afternoon Yachting Club. Of course, we did not have a yacht nor did we have any water nearby but that didn’t matter because we improvised with having meetings only until we could obtain a yacht and waterways in the area.

    Our meetings were held at the nearby Gun and Rod Club which provided pool tables and a full bar along with some food.

    Also, about once a month, our OIC’s wife would invite us to their house to hold our meetings. She treated us to the best dry martinis I have ever tasted, along with snacks.

    We made up for those fun times by working all day developing operation plans, contact reports, Intelligence reports and admin stuff. At night and weekends, we met with our sources who provided us with intel about the commies.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 9, 2023 @ 11:54 pm

  3375. Gary,

    I wore civics for about two of my three years while was in the Army. This included all of my time in Korea (approximately one year) and one half of my time at Fort Bragg, NC. (almost the same period). In the ROK, my experience was very similar to Bernie’s, although it was about twelve years later. The differences were, we did not have to endure propaganda sessions or serve as couriers. While in Korea, I was interacting with our Korean Army counterparts to gain intel. information on our adversaries and at Bragg, I conducted background information for security clearances. There I worked amongst personnel from the 82nd Airborne and with the 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 7th SF Groups.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 10, 2023 @ 9:19 am

  3376. #3375.
    Not bad. However, I discovered that Spell Check is my off again, on again friend. For #3375, on the first line, change “civics” into “civies” and on the next to the last line, substitute “investigation” for the word, “information”.

    Originally, SC suggested “vivisection” as a word substitute for one of the above cited errors. I must admit I have to do a better job of proofreading and enlarging the screen before I hit the “send” button.

    My favorite faux pas happened years ago on this site. There was another MI contributor who wrote that he enlisted in the Army in 1868. Obviously it should have been 1968. I still laugh about that one.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 10, 2023 @ 10:45 am

  3377. Phil,

    I was wondering what MOS wore “civvics” 🙂
    You cleared it up!

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 10, 2023 @ 5:29 pm

  3378. Gary,

    Thanks buddy, but I only used one “v” in “civics”. I guess I was thinking about an old high school class or maybe even an old high school crush in that class. Lol

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 10, 2023 @ 6:28 pm

  3379. A pre Veteran’s Day check-in and I want to compliment the subscribers to this wonderful convergence of patriots.
    God bless America and the loyal U.S. military who gave their lives so that we could enjoy this great country that we cherish.
    From Waterbury,Connecticut I wish that all of you are well and keeping our country in your prayers.

    Sincerely, 96b20, Ed Hotchkiss

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — November 10, 2023 @ 8:31 pm

  3380. Ed,
    et..al.,

    You said it all! And thank you one and all for serving.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 11, 2023 @ 6:43 am

  3381. It is an honor to be part of this site with my fellow Ft. Holabird brethren!
    Thank you all for your service and sacrifices. All the best!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 11, 2023 @ 7:17 am

  3382. To our men and women who wear and have worn the uniform, may God bless you and thank you for you are our most precious resource.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2023 @ 7:51 am

  3383. Veterans Day is a day of remembering for me those who made the ultimate sacrifice, those who are missing, those who are still here and the ones in between. I’ll be going to our county Vietnam Memorial shortly to read the names of the fallen to myself.

    Comment by Jim Wles — November 11, 2023 @ 11:30 am

  3384. Hello to all Holabird vets and a special wish for a great day for everyone. Checking the site everyday has become part of my daily routine and always makes my day to see that many are still around. Keep it going!

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 11, 2023 @ 12:01 pm

  3385. We all are so lucky to be able to celebrate veterans day. I wish you all well.
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petarca — November 11, 2023 @ 1:37 pm

  3386. Can’t seem to post for some reason but here goes again. Have a good veterans day and best wishes for many more to all. It has been a pleasure to remember our youth and adventures on this website!
    Daryl Petrarca

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — November 11, 2023 @ 2:01 pm

  3387. Phil, we had somewhat similar geographic routes with MI assignments. Fort Holabird , 1967, then 502nd MI, company B, 1968-1969, then Fort Bragg 1969-1970 with CONTIC (continental intelligence command). I was given all the countries beginning with the letter “I” to summarize in reports on what we knew intelligence wise. Somehow I also got two countries with the letter “L” because they looked like the letter “I” I suppose. While you were in the Fayetteville Field office did you ever deal with CONTIC ?
    Daryl

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — November 11, 2023 @ 3:51 pm

  3388. Hi Daryl,

    I don’t know but it seems that for part of my time in service, I followed you around for a bit. In all of my years on this site and on the Holabird site on FB, I only have come into contact with you and one other guy who was my roommate in the ROK, Gary Johnson.

    I tried to enter the military in June of 1968 but at 20, I was too young for Agent School. I turned 21 in late summer, so after being in the Delayed Enlistment Program, I went active that month and started basic training.
    After Basic, I started Agent School, with only 2 years of college, in December 1968. I graduated in April of 1970. From there, I went to the 14th MI Battalion, but soon thereafter I was assigned to temporary duty at the Fort Bragg Field Office. Occasionally, guys from our office pulled “duty agent” at the Fayetteville Field Office. I remained there until I got orders for my assignment to Korea but before shipping over, they sent me to Intelligence Photography School (May – June 1970). My time in Korea was from July 1970 until June of 1971, when I got an Early Out to go back to and finally finish undergraduate school. So, my time at the 14th MI Battalion where you were was limited to so many months from the Spring of 1969 to the Spring of 1970. After all of these years, the exact time frame escapes me.

    While at the Fort Bragg F.O., I never dealt with CONTIC.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2023 @ 4:54 pm

  3389. #3386

    Another error has occurred by yours truly. I actually graduated from Agent School in April of 1969.

    Mea culpa!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 12, 2023 @ 11:31 pm

  3390. Just thinking of our {CIC} respect for classified data VS the current politicians including their staffs making it subservient to their political agenda.

    I never asked the SA in the next desk what he was doing and never told him what I was doing and vice versa. There was no phone in our office. Even then, the conversation might have been in Korean. Of course we learned a little, very little, by osmosis.

    I don’t recall anyone in the bar ever admonishing anyone for telling classified info because no one every started telling anything classified.

    One time Joe W. showed us photos of prospective Korean brides on his bunk bed. CIC investigated them and the US Embassy decided. This was indiscreet on his part, but I don’t think the photos were classified.

    Ken ? was in charge of confidential funds. Ken and I knew of each other, but never talked. One day he seemed to go our of his way to stop me on the walkway between Quonset huts to tell me some juicy gossip that he said was Top Secret. We didn’t talk after that. Why did he tell me this info? Was this a test? When I was being released from active duty in Fort Lewis, WA I was given a CIA application – a stretch?

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 13, 2023 @ 1:40 pm

  3391. Bernie:

    Much the same story here. I spent about 2+ years at Holabird and never knew what any of the other folks did.
    I have another question for anyone. Did you routinely carry handguns? I seem to recall .38 snub noses and .45’s around.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 13, 2023 @ 3:36 pm

  3392. We trained on the .38 caliber snub nose revolver and the .45 caliber pistol at Fort Meade. The training was part of a week at Meade including war games.

    During the games, I chanced upon the enemy [instructor] interrogating Jack W. Jenson. I stuck my hand in the door and shot the enemy with my hand shaped like a pistol. I left while Jack and the instructor were arguing if Jack had been shot.

    In 1956-7 in Korea we only carried the .38 snub nose revolver for courier runs from Seoul to Pusan and during several Communist protests including May 1. Since we didn’t carry the .45 caliber pistol we only had to qualify every year with the .38 revolver.

    Special agents wore uniforms until 1958 [I’ve been told] so the revolver was carried on our belt with a quick release holster.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 13, 2023 @ 6:53 pm

  3393. Interesting comments about safeguarding our classified materials. At Frankfurt Station (on loan to the 513th MI Gp) with intelligence collection duties, our office was occupied by an Ops Sgt; a 97C with special duties, and myself and one other 97D that handled all of the classified docs, rec’d and sent classified stuff; and maintained the classified files. In addition, I also had “NATO Secret”, “Codeword” and “Cofram” clearances that the other 97D and the 97C did not have so they could not handle that type of material. We had tons of classified documents in that office.

    I was glad when I was sent to the field and assigned to a Field Team that had a much smaller amount of classified material to handle. In the FTs, each of us knew everything that was going on – it was shared and discussed by all members. I had access to everything. And we helped each other out by going with the other guys to meet their Sources and do counter surveillance to and from the meetings.

    At Frankfurt Station, the Duty Agent (we took turns) carried a loaded .38spl revolver.

    At the Field Teams, we were issued .45 semi autos with ammo. We also had grenades to quickly destroy classified materials should the balloon go up.

    The .45s were too large to carry so we each had small semi autos (.32 ACP & .380) to carry for easy concealment. The 97Cs carried ID that allowed them to carry but I did not have that ID, so I kept my pistol at my apartment but carried when assisting on operations.

    After my Army service I entered law enforcement and as a retired Police Officer, I still carry a concealed handgun.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — November 14, 2023 @ 12:48 am

  3394. Bernie and Tony,

    Thanks.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 14, 2023 @ 6:53 am

  3395. Dundalk Eagle Article from November 9, 2023:

    “In October of 1945, the CIC School was established at Fort Holabird, changing its focus from vehicles to espionage. The school personnel worked on training personnel to detect signs of ‘treason, sedition, and subversive activities’ or as the locals described it, a ‘spy school’. Every year from 1945 to 1971, the average student body of the Army Intelligence School underwent an average of 37 different courses of everything from gathering information for military intelligence purposes to top secret security training to how to neutralize enemy infiltration and sabotage. These officers (and EMs) were deployed across the world to interrogate prisoners, such as Viet Cong agents, debug electronic devices, track down enemy infiltrators, and even operate war zone machinery.
    The training was so rigorous that often the barracks became stages where students acted out their clandestine missions. For example, some areas were transformed into a Vietnamese village (e.g., Fort Howard) to mimic the real-life reconnaissance situations the trainees would be forced into during the Vietnam War.
    One officer from the CIC described his mission as to ‘find the enemy, fix him and destroy him.’ The last class of spies graduated from Fort Holabird on September 2, 1971, after DOD announced it would be closing in the middle of 1973 due to overcrowding. Most of the operations and equipment were moved to Fort Huachuca in Arizona. In 1977, the General Services Administration declared the land ‘surplus for federal use’ and sold it to Baltimore City for $4.6m.
    For years, the barracks and mess halls were empty. Even the file cabinets had been long-gone.
    In the late 1970’s, there was talk of turning the area into an industrial park. Other suggestions included a senior citizens’ area or an education and training facility while some published for a national fire academy to be moved there. Today, the site is home to the Holabird Industrial Park, which includes light industry and businesses. In 2001, a fire broke out and destroyed what remained of the other CIC (Criminal Investigations Command buildings). This CIC relocated to Fort Belvoir) Now, only one historic building is left, the former Officer’s Open Mess, which is now rented by the VVA for $1.00 per year (except for the Portside Apartments, formerly the Cummins Apartments, and two houses on Detroit Ave., formerly on-post officer billets and now private residences).
    However, while Fort Holabird appears to be a shadow of the bustling fort of a century ago, once filled with brilliant young men and women ready to take on the world, its impact and their effect on American history remains.”

    Comment by Philip G Ostrander, Jr. — November 14, 2023 @ 3:29 pm

  3396. Phil…thanks for sharing that excellent article from the Dundalk Eagle.

    Manny…..at JROC (B) – Joint Refugee Operations Center in Berlin, when we drew weapons, it was the .38 Special.

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 14, 2023 @ 4:37 pm

  3397. Gary,

    You are welcome. It was the first one in years where the Eagle has given any mention of our old post.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 14, 2023 @ 5:14 pm

  3398. Phil,
    How can I get a copy of the Eagle article? I have a collection going and would love to add same. Have no idea how to print your post or I would do it here(your post).
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 15, 2023 @ 6:31 am

  3399. Manny,

    I have a typewritten copy that I composed that I can send to you as I also have a collection on everything that pertains to Fort Holabird. I will email it to you as an attachment today. I hope that will suffice.

    If anyone else is interested, please let me know as I have almost all of your email addresses.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 15, 2023 @ 8:50 am

  3400. Hi Phil,
    Yes, please send me a copy of the article. BTW, on weapons, never drew one on CONUS. On Okinawa, we had to qualify once a year with a .38 snub nose. We had to draw it on only one occasion. In 1967, there was a tremendous amount of drugs, primarily heroin and opium, from Vietnam and Thailand going through to the US. Army CID asked for help on a raid where they had been informed of a large cache. About 30 from the 525 MI Detachment went out in the middle of the night with shaking guns. . The rain found nothing! Luckily no one got shot. Signed the gun back in and never saw it again.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 15, 2023 @ 10:43 am

  3401. Hi Richard,

    Will do it today. It will be my typewritten copy as the original is loaded with advertisements.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 15, 2023 @ 11:13 am

  3402. Hi Manny,

    It appears that I do not have your latest email address. Please send it to me at ppstrndr@verizon.net and I will send a copy of the Eagle article.

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Philip G Ostrander, Jr. — November 15, 2023 @ 12:14 pm

  3403. Phil,
    It seems the email address above is returned DAEMON. Any suggestions?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 16, 2023 @ 7:07 am

  3404. Hi Manny,

    The above is my correct email address so the only courses of action I can suggest are the following:

    1. Try sending it again.

    2. Post a mailing address on this website. It could be your business address so as to protect your confidentiality.

    3. Post your email address on this website. I have posted mine several times over the years.

    Sorry that you are having problems.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 16, 2023 @ 7:27 am

  3405. I just found this site and am I ever grateful for the referral from a friend I served with in the 502nd MI Bn, B Co. in Korea.
    I was working for the FBI in Las Vegas and married when I received a draft notice and was told by them they would arrange for what training I would receive. I therefore went to Basic in west Texas then straight to Agent class at Fort Holabird. Lived in a brownstone apartment with wife on York Ave in Dundalk. Served active from Jan 1966 to Jan 1970 as a Special Agent. So fond of my time at Holabird and so happy to find all these remembrances from attendees of the long haul. Wonderful material to pass on to my grandchildren who always are asking questions. Sometimes hard to remember things but your site is helpful.

    Comment by Joseph "Joe" Curtis — November 17, 2023 @ 8:19 pm

  3406. Article received. Passed along to some other vets. They never knew we existed (thought something to do with MP’s or CID) or heard of Fort Holabird. This is par for course in my experience.

    Thanks for the help, Phil.

    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 19, 2023 @ 6:53 am

  3407. Hi Manny,

    Good! I tracked down the author of the article on Facebook. I told her that we enjoyed the piece in the Eagle and that we had shared it with others. She said she was glad that we liked it.

    Best regards,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 19, 2023 @ 8:09 am

  3408. To my Ft. Holabird brothers: Happy Thanksgiving!!
    Ed.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — November 23, 2023 @ 1:03 am

  3409. Happy Thanksgiving to Ed et al!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 23, 2023 @ 7:36 am

  3410. To all, have Happy Thanksgiving and great holiday season.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 23, 2023 @ 10:08 am

  3411. To all, have Happy Thanksgiving and great holiday season.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 23, 2023 @ 10:08 am

  3412. Wishing you all a Happy Thanksgiving!

    Comment by Gary Miller — November 23, 2023 @ 2:15 pm

  3413. And the day after as well.
    manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 24, 2023 @ 5:50 am

  3414. I am surprised to find this website is still active. I was following it around 2010 to see if any of my Holabird classmates were commenting. Never found any. I went through the case officer class from Oct to March 67 to 68. About 12 of us got orders to Vietnam and the 5th Special Forces. I spent a short time in Nha Trang, 3 months in Pleiku and the rest of the yr. in Qui Nhon. Never used a bit of my Holabird training, but I am glad to have gone through the experience. I believe all of us came home from Nam. Most of us reconnected at the airport at Cam Rahn Bay and flew home together. We had been disbursed throughout the country. I am now 79 and I assume some of our group have reached the purly gates. I stayed in touch with classmate Fred Cohen. My wife and I visited him and his wife in Boston In 2022. Sadly he passed within 6 months of our visit. In 1972 I was working in San Francisco and literally came upon Lloyd Lavagetto, another classmate and Vietnam buddy. Spent my final yr at Ft Bragg….with little worthwhile to do. Four of us from my Holabird class lived off base. Fred Cohen, Frank Novak, Bill Nash and me. If anyone from my class happens to read this, I would love to have contact with you. Living in San Diego County. Ph : 760-809-3036. All the best to everyone. Happy Holidays!

    Comment by Bob Millen — November 26, 2023 @ 12:50 am

  3415. Bob,

    Welcome back! I hope you are able to connect with some of your buddies that you served with at Fort Bragg, Fort Holabird, or in Vietnam on this site.

    Thank you for your service!

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 26, 2023 @ 7:57 am

  3416. Bob (3414),
    What did you actually do
    if you didn’t use your training? Uncle Sam is a funny old
    fellow.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 27, 2023 @ 6:17 pm

  3417. Taps for one of ours. Henry Kissenger was WWII CIC.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — November 30, 2023 @ 6:29 am

  3418. Manny….to answer your question, When I arrived at the Pleiku headquarters along with two Holabird classmates, George Fraser and Lloyd Lavagetto, I drew the long straw and was kept there to operate the classified documents room. They were sent to two remote A camps. If you’ve seen the John Wayne movie “Green Berets” you’ll know what an A Camp was. After 2 months, I was reassigned to Detachment B 22 in Qui Nhon on the coast. Lived in a former hotel on the ocean . About 15 guys lived there. My job was to compile enemy intelligence reported from the A camps and forward to Nha Trang hdqts. I was expected to visit these camps monthly . I was a buck sergeant. Fortunate to avoid any combat. Must admit there was a lot of idle time and a well stocked beer bar and good food prepared by a chef who had been trained by the French during their occupation. ( Can you tell me any quicker way to read the latest comments without having to scroll through 20 yrs worth?

    Comment by Bob Millen — December 2, 2023 @ 12:27 am

  3419. Bob,
    Thanks. You are one of the first to actually answer a question here. Wow! Secondly. to answer your question. Put your cursor and the square on the left scroll bar (up and down arrows all the way on the left of the screen) hold the left button of the mouse down and keep it down and scroll down. Quick trick.

    Manny
    p.s. I cannot believe I, a computer semi-illiterate am giving advise here.

    Comment by manny adler — December 2, 2023 @ 6:49 am

  3420. Bob Millen, another fast way to get to the end is, go to the end of the first post. Above number 1, it will have a total of responses for the site. there are two small arrows after the word COMMENTS. Click on the arrow and it will bring you to the end of all of the posts.
    I hope that makes sense.
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — December 3, 2023 @ 12:04 am

  3421. Bob,
    Sorry.

    Facing the screen the arrow bar is on the right. Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 3, 2023 @ 7:06 am

  3422. Bill Leach great hack #3420.

    Jack

    Comment by Jack Lewis — December 3, 2023 @ 3:55 pm

  3423. Re: 3349
    Sorry for the delay in response, Manny. Been playing “slacker.”
    DOB: 1935
    At ‘Bird: 1961-2. Basic Agent, DAME, DASE. (They didn’t know what to do with an industrial designer so they shipped me off to B&C scool)
    At 108th Buffalo FO ’til I bit Uncle’s hand (he wanted to give me a silver bar and I said “no, thanks” He then classified me as “damaged goods” and sent me to ASA unit out in the boonies 40 clicks S of Ankara until my Euro Separation, 12/63
    Best all,
    Bill (one of the others)

    Comment by Bill Schulz — December 5, 2023 @ 3:45 pm

  3424. … reading farther on, …
    KP. In short 12 wk. basic at Jackson I got pulled to visit Bldg 3164 to see all the guys in civvies. Signed up for further investigation and when Drill Sgt got word that the mil. taxi was to take me out to the CIC office, I had it made!
    Did pull KP once at the ‘Bird.
    After graduation I never unpacked my duffel bag nor bought any of the E-3, 4 or 5 stripes.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — December 5, 2023 @ 3:59 pm

  3425. yeah, me again…
    Missed “Expert” in basic ’cause a number of companies went through the abbreviated course before D-2-1. Some of the targets had holes in ’em large enough to pass a helmet through. Sign…
    That was with the M-1. Never qualified with the .38 snub but has some background in law enforcement. Had to re-qualify only one time, while at Buffalo. Site: Ft. Niagara, overlooking Lake Ontario. Winter and a 20 kt. crosswind and a flock of Mallards cruising the lake chasing where our spent rounds were making like jumping fish! “Turn here… no, over there.” Between the wind, the cold, the ducks and our gales of laughter, I’m surprised we qualified! Never saw the pistol again. Nor did I ever see my badge but one time in Turkey when it lay in the big ol’ safe.
    When I was a short-timer in Turkey, the non-com in charge of documents told me that the CDR, a light COL, told me that the boss had been keeping documents out overnight, a big no-no. I did a night raid on his office (lock pickin’ ‘n all) and found them in the center drawer of his two-pedistal desk. WROTE HIM UP!
    Next morning, the S2, a MAJ Jim Lindgren, who came up through the EM MP ranks and was troubled by ulcers, came into my office and, massaging his gut, said, “Schulz, what in hell are you trying to do to me?” He was smiling so I knew he wasn’t too badly bent out of shape and probably was secretly enjoying the squirming at the top!
    Yeah, right, TMI (too much information.
    Schulz, out.

    Comment by Bill Schulz — December 5, 2023 @ 8:50 pm

  3426. Bill,

    Thanks. You write beautifully.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 6, 2023 @ 6:20 am

  3427. Thanks for the praise, Manny.
    Does the ol’ heart good to hear some… been married 63 years. Need I say more?

    Comment by Bill Schulz — December 6, 2023 @ 11:58 am

  3428. Bill,
    Show her my post and let her know you didn’t pay me to wrfite it.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 6, 2023 @ 3:18 pm

  3429. Holiday Check-in Everyone:

    Please check-in to let us know that you are still alive and kicking.

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

    Phil O. (Western Baltimore County, MD)

    Note: If you have any difficulty with this website, contact Craig Sprout at csprout@gmail.com. Also, now we be a good time to thank him for providing a free service to us by troubleshooting problems on this site during the past year.

    Thank you Craig!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 20, 2023 @ 1:39 pm

  3430. My wife, Kathleen and I wish all of our Ft Holabird brothers and sisters a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

    We are located in eastern Solano County, California, about 15 miles east of Travis AFB. I’m sure that at least some of you are familiar with TAFB.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — December 20, 2023 @ 3:47 pm

  3431. Willie Nelson and I are still alive at 90.
    Our grandson completed two six weeks of Marine Corps Basic OCS the past two summers. When he graduates from U. of VA this June, he has to make the decision if he wants to sign-up for five years. We have mixed emotions. Any thoughts?
    Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — December 20, 2023 @ 3:50 pm

  3432. I am wishing my Holabird brothers a Merry Christmas and a peaceful New Year.

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — December 20, 2023 @ 5:39 pm

  3433. Wishing all Ft. Holabird graduates and permanent party a very Merry Christmas and the happiest of New Years!
    Also, a special thank you ro Craig Sprout for making our group communication possible.

    All the best everyone,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 20, 2023 @ 6:10 pm

  3434. Merry Christmas and a very happy new year to all of our “birds” out there.
    I also want to thank Craig Sprout. He makes it possible for us to relive part of life (good or bad) that for me, was a great experience.

    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — December 20, 2023 @ 10:07 pm

  3435. Thanks to one and all!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 21, 2023 @ 6:34 am

  3436. Hey all, it is my pleasure to keep the lights on here to make sure y’all have a place to connect. Also, hats off to Jimbo for re-upping the domain every year.

    Merry Christmas to all of you and yours. I hope the season finds you blessed.

    Comment by mtsprout — December 21, 2023 @ 2:11 pm

  3437. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. Checking in to see if anyone remembers me from the G-2 at the Bird 63-66?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — December 21, 2023 @ 6:32 pm

  3438. Happy Holidays to all, remembering Xmas of 65 at the Bird, and the Lord Baltimore Hotel, be safe.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 22, 2023 @ 10:52 am

  3439. Merry Christmas to all. Thanks to Phil for keeping the fire burning and Craig for maintaining the digital highway. Be safe in 2024. Warmest regards. Jack

    Comment by Jack Lewis — December 22, 2023 @ 2:04 pm

  3440. Guys,

    Thanks to everyone who responded with a Christmas greeting!

    I am sure most all of you have been thanked for your service at one time or another, however, the question is: What is the best way to respond with someone says “thank you” in person or in an email?

    I usually respond with a “thank you” back to them but have often thought that I must think of a better way to do it. Any ideas?

    Thanks and have a Happy New Year!

    Phil

    Comment by Philip G Ostrander, Jr. — December 26, 2023 @ 3:03 pm

  3441. Thank you, proud to have served.

    Bill

    Comment by bill leach — December 26, 2023 @ 10:39 pm

  3442. I agree with Bill Leach’s response. That’s how I always try to repond back to a “thank you for your service” comment.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — December 27, 2023 @ 10:55 pm

  3443. I too agree with Bill, Tony and Phil…….living overseas, if/when someone thanks me for serving, my response is normally…..”Es war mir eine Ehre”.
    Translation…..”It was an honor”.

    Happy New Year to all.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 28, 2023 @ 7:23 am

  3444. It varies. Often I thank them for their service. You never know and it leads to some interesting encounters.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — December 29, 2023 @ 6:36 am

  3445. Wishing all Ft. Holabird brothers and sisters a glorious, healthy and happy 2024!

    All the best!

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 31, 2023 @ 6:55 am

  3446. Happy New Year, 2024!!
    Rod Fowler, Holabird grad 1968

    Comment by R. Fowler — December 31, 2023 @ 7:29 am

  3447. Thank you to those who replied to the question regarding how you respond to being thanked for your service.

    Other expressions that I found on the Internet include:

    *(I am) happy to have served.
    *It was my pleasure to have served.
    *I am so glad it was helpful.
    *Any time!
    *You don’t have to thank me, but I appreciate the sentiment.
    *I appreciate your support.
    *I was fortunate to do so.
    *Of course!
    *You’re most welcome.
    *Thank you! Your opinion means a lot!

    Happy New Year!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 31, 2023 @ 9:41 am

  3448. We made through another year, a wish for good health and happiness to all.
    Richard Duarte, B-13-66,Special Agent and proud of it!

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 31, 2023 @ 10:52 am

  3449. Happy New Year all!
    Of all the New Years Eves I remember Dec 1967 the Most. I and two others alone in the student dorms at Holibird due to picking the wrong dates for leave. The place was deserted… and there was no ice for our wiskey……

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — December 31, 2023 @ 5:50 pm

  3450. Happy New Year to all.
    It seems like yesterday we were all worried about Y2K!

    Bill Leach

    Comment by bill leach — December 31, 2023 @ 9:39 pm

  3451. I always volunteered to pull KP on Xmas so the other guys could go home, often on New Year. Not very busy on
    either day. A healthy and stable New Year to all of us.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — January 1, 2024 @ 8:07 am

  3452. After much searching and aggravation, I finally found this site again.

    Comment by John — January 9, 2024 @ 5:05 pm

  3453. Re: 3452

    Is this John Washington? If so, welcome back! How have you been?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 9, 2024 @ 6:49 pm

  3454. Manny-
    I was just going through back posts and you asked me when I was born and was at the ‘Bird. ’35 and 61-2 respectively.
    Here in ’24 (gad, what a mess!) I wish all of you continued and healthy verticality.
    Ol’ Schulzie

    Comment by Bill Schulz — January 19, 2024 @ 6:17 pm

  3455. Re: 3453

    I guess we will never know who John is. Oh well!

    Moving on…there is a letter to the editor of last week’s Dundalk Eagle that I wanted to review with you concerning the community that surrounded our beloved fort on two sides and where some of you used to live nearby in homes and apartments.

    It was in the “Letter to the Editor” column contributed by Edward L. Craig. In it, he laments the decline of his hometown. He cites that Dundalk was once a storybook community. It used to be a pleasure to live there, but no more. Dundalk and the surrounding community were directly impacted by the loss of big business (and Fort Holabird) in the area. Bethlehem Steel, Western Electric, Chevrolet, (Fleischmann’s – Federal Yeast, Lever Brothers Soap Factory, National Brewery, Seagram’s – Four Roses Distillery, and others are mentioned. The area barely survived this loss, but most locals remained because Dundalk was a very desirable place to live. The residents had pride in the area, their property, and themselves. It was a very solid blue-collar community. However, this part of southeastern Baltimore County also had to accept government-assisted and low income housing. There was an increase in drug usage and gun related crime. Increasingly, small businesses started to close and the professional class (doctors, dentists, lawyers, and other professionals) begin to move To bdate, we continue to lose viable parts of our town.

    In spite of this, we have a great chance to make a real turnaround. Just to the south of our area, where Beth Steel used to be situated, big business is relocating here. Trade Point Atlantic, Amazon, and Sagamore Spirits have recently made the move. This is a good first step, however, medium and small-sized businesses have not. The professional class has not. Any future lack of progress in these latter areas cannot be tolerated if we are to survive and prosper as a working/lower-middle class community.

    The above is an interesting and critical commentary by Mr. Craig which I paraphrased.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — January 19, 2024 @ 11:16 pm

  3456. Bill (3454),

    Thanks. I am impressed—someone older than me (but not much) and who actually answers questions. 36 and 55-57 respectively.

    Comment by manny adler — January 20, 2024 @ 6:54 am

  3457. Hi guys! Hope that everyone is doing well as we start another new month – February 2024. In a couple of days, not only will I celebrate my wife’s birthday on Feb 5th, but it will also be the 59th anniversary of my Army enlistment (Feb 5, 1968) at the Oakland (CA) Induction Center.

    I almost didn’t get into the Army Intelligence Corps because in early January 1965, I got stopped for speeding on my motorcycle. I was in a hurry to get home because I was freezing. I called the local INTC office and told them about the traffic citation and I was told that it might affect my getting a security clearance.

    So I went before the Judge to ask for leniency regarding the citation. I told Judge Foley that if I was found guilty, it would affect my ability to get my clearance. The judge asked if I had already enlisted and I told him yes and that I had been accepted for Intelligence Corps training.

    He smiled and told me that he did not want this matter to interfere with my enlistment or clearance so he dismissed the citation and wished me well.

    In 1968, after I had ETS’d and was now working for the Sheriff’s Department, I stopped by Judge Foley’s courtroom and thanked him again and told him about my Army service. He told me that he appreciated my service and that I had stopped by.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 3, 2024 @ 11:27 pm

  3458. I was fortunate and lucky enough to get into MI as my MOS.

    First, my Army recruiter talked me into selecting it. Second, I was placed in the Delayed Enlistment Program, as I was 3 months shy of the minimum age requirement of 21. Third, I had only 2 years of college, but I believe that they must have waved the college graduation requirement because I did well on the interview and testing phase before starting Agent School.

    Does anyone else have a tale of good fortune that they would like to tell the rest of us concerning their Army experience?

    Thanks to Tony Montemayor for beginning this “thread”.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 4, 2024 @ 12:10 pm

  3459. Basic training at Fort Lewis, Washington. I, along with more than a third of my training company got URI (upper respiratory infection). Ended up in the hospital for 5-7 days. When released I got called in to a meeting with our primary drill instructor – Cpl (E-4) Karl. Really decent guy. He said that they were considering recycling me because of the lost time. This was troubling because I had a start date in January for the Agent’s class, and had been told that I missed the assigned class it would violate my “contract” and could be assigned another MOS. Karl said if I qualified with the M-14 he would sign off. Qualified and graduated with my company. Got to Holabird, only to find out that I was standing in line (like so many others) for a class date. Spent about 8 weeks in casual company working midnights at the BOQ check-in shack off the main entrance road. Started 68-B-13 in April

    Comment by Jack Lewis — February 7, 2024 @ 1:20 pm

  3460. I too have always felt very fortunate to have been in MI (96C2l29). During Basic Training at Ft. Ord in 1968, we were in formation on our company (A-5-1) street and were informed by a young 1st Lt., that if anyone 1) played a musical instrument, 2) could type 45 words a minute, or 3) spoke a foreign language, we could take a test and skip training.
    While living in France in the early 60’s (my father was stationed at SHAPE HQ) I took German in high school. The German language test was easy and I was told I would be going to a place called “Ft. Holabird” directly after Basic to learn Interrogation skills. 96C was interrogator – 2L was second language and 29 was German. After the Bird, I spent the next 8 years in Berlin at JROC (Joint Refugee Operations Center), part of the 18th MI Bn., 66th MI Group.

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 8, 2024 @ 6:46 pm

  3461. Guys,

    I guess it is time to move on from this “thread”. Thank you to all of those who participated.

    Let me leave you with an interesting aside.

    My wife is 8 1/2 years younger than me. In September 1968, when I was just entering Agent School, my future spouse was entering Holabird Jr. High, just down the street, at age 13. I guess that it is a good thing that we did not meet until many years later.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 17, 2024 @ 4:32 pm

  3462. Re #3461: Wow Phil, my wife is also 8 – 1/2 years younger than me! But she’s not a Holabird Girl – she’s a blonde California Girl. We first met when we were little kids and my family moved in next door to her family. My family moved away but we remained on contact with her family over the years.

    When I returned home from the Army, she was still in high school but I found her very attractive. Evenutally, her parents allowed us to go out on dates. Her parents always liked me and my family and were close to us.

    After she graduated from high school we got married. She then became at “cop’s wife” at an early age. We’ve now been married for over 53 years and have two wonderful children. My wife is very proud of my service in US Army Intelligence and my Law Enforcement Service. She went through a whole lot of stress during my police career.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 18, 2024 @ 11:37 pm

  3463. Re#3462:

    Tony,

    I certainly wish that we could get more people to communicate on this site. Besides you and me, I can only count a handful who are regular contributors.

    Anyway, the story with my wife and me gets even better. We first met in Ocean City, MD which is the summer playground for most Baltimoreans (2 1/2 hours to the east). She was with her girlfriend and I was with two of my buddies at a local watering spot there. She paired off with one of my friends and they ended up getting married. I caught her garter at the reception. After 2 years they split up and she and I sometime later ran into each other at a local night club in Towson, MD. We slow danced, I kissed her on the dance floor and the rest is history. Now, 41 years later, we have 2 grown sons and a home in Catonsville, MD.

    As a bit more information that may be of interest; her mother used to attend the dances at the Ft. Holabird USO Club. Some time later, she met and married a U.S. Army infantry veteran from WWII who was wounded at Bougainville Island in the Pacific Theatre. He later worked at and eventually retired from the Chevy plant down the street on Holabird Ave.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 19, 2024 @ 1:46 pm

  3464. Closing in on 64 years and looking forward to the next 64 years(of marriage that is). Phil, we are the few stalwarts. You are so right about needing more folks posting.

    Comment by manny adler — February 19, 2024 @ 5:02 pm

  3465. Ok, Phil [and Tony], but you may regret asking for this contribution. Bernie

    My future wife and I started work the same day in 1958 with her employee # 2982 and mine 2983. We spent 8 weeks in computer programming training. The industry was so new then that no one was flunked from training. We did have to pass 3 “math” tests before we were hired. It wasn’t until 1969 that college grads w/ a computer science degree could be hired.
    No one flunked my Holabird B-13 course in 1956. Two did leave, but there were reasons/excuses!

    Comparisons Programming B-13
    —————— —————— ——
    course length 8 weeks 15 weeks
    hours/day in class 8 hours 7.5 [until 4:30]
    text book none none
    written material a few handouts none
    tests once/week once/week
    minimum age none 22 years old
    sex/gender 30% female all male
    class size 24 44

    The programming trainees were an eclectic group. No college required. One was a 50+ year old ex-insurance salesman.
    Two were active duty military since the company was a non-profit captive of the Air Force – so your taxes help pay for my training. Thanks. Then again, you were cheap since my salary was less than my previous/first/only year teaching salary.

    Comment by bernie thielen — February 19, 2024 @ 10:21 pm

  3466. Re #3464: Manny, you and your wife are way ahead of the rest of us! Congratulations on your long marriage! I’m hoping that my wife and I can surpass your mark but you’ll still be ahead of us.

    Re #3463: What a turn of events in the way you and your wife ended up meeting and later getting married! When I was at Holabird some of the guys would invite me to go to Ocean City. Unfortunately, I had to decline because I had very little money during my time there.

    And speaking of the USO in downtown Baltimore, I went there many, many times. Mostly, I danced with a blonde girl who worked as a secretary for an officer at Holabird. But I also met several girls that were student nurses at the Lutheran Hospital in West Baltimore. I went out with one whose parents lived in Arbutus. And I introduced two of the other student nurses to two of my friends who ended up marrying their girlfriends.

    I wonder when they moved the USO club from Holabird to downtown?

    The one downtown was located in a large building about a block from the bus stop on Baltimore St. They occupied all of the street level part of the building. They offered refreshments; games; dances; and just a good place to “kick back”.

    Many local girls would go there to dance with servicemen. I was surprised one night when I danced with a girl and found out that she was a US Marine stationed at Henderson Hall in Arlington, VA.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 22, 2024 @ 3:20 pm

  3467. Re #3465: Bernie, very interesting story about how and when you met your wife. Gosh, I didn’t know that computers had been around that long – 1958?

    The first computer I ever saw was the one at Holabird in the CRF building in 1965. It was the secure building where records were stored and I had gone there for an interview and again to select my overseas assignment. The machine was enormous and it took up a long length of the room as I walked past it.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — February 22, 2024 @ 3:32 pm

  3468. Re: #3466

    I did not attend USO dances, however I support the USO. When I was at the Bird, I comprised a list of the best night clubs in the Baltimore area in 1968-69 for my fellow agents. The list included: the Rhapsody Club, Club Venus, Latin Casino, Patapsco Inn, Judge’s Musical Bar (featuring a sliding board, right G.M.), Hullabaloo, the Zoo and others. My favorite was the Rhapsody Club on Baltimore Annapolis Blvd. Local acts that appeared there included: Clay Hunt and the Princetons, Billy Joy and the Verdicts, and of course, Ronnie Dove.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 22, 2024 @ 10:25 pm

  3469. Phil and all,
    I didn’t attend USO dances either whilst at our beloved Ft. Holabird. During my first week, I met a girl from Sparrows Point, and she “dragged” me to Judges (yes Phil….featuring a sliding board.) and Hollywood Park. We were pretty serious about each other, but after graduation from the Interrogation Course (96C) I went straight to Berlin and we lost contact.

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 23, 2024 @ 5:35 pm

  3470. Hi Gary,

    I first met my wife-to-be at the Bonfire Restaurant in O.C. and after she and her husband split, I met her at Rascals in Towson. Where did you and Pat meet in the Baltimore area?

    Thanks,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 23, 2024 @ 7:13 pm

  3471. Hi Phil,

    We met in a cinema in Dundalk at the refreshment counter. I think the name was Carlton or Colgate….not 100% sure anymore.

    Regards,

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — February 24, 2024 @ 6:35 pm

  3472. Hi Gary,

    Thanks for responding to my inquiry as I know it is past midnight in Germany. You are right, it was probably the Carlton on Dundalk Ave. It is now, the Kaczorowski Funeral Home. My wife’s family has used that funeral home for some time when they have had the need. One of the popular restaurants when you and I were at Ft. Holabird was right across the street, Graceland Gardens.

    On the other hand, the Colgate, formerly one of three movie theaters in Dundalk back then, sold out to another type of business in 1953. Because of the time difference, I ruled it out as a possibility. When you and I were there, it was Unity Hall. The ownership used to hold dances there featuring local bands and DJs. It remains there but is now a furniture discount store.

    Regards,

    Phil

    Note: Please forgive me as the area “history geek”.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 24, 2024 @ 11:09 pm

  3473. Does anyone remember the Liberty restaurant across from the main gate?

    Comment by manny adler — February 25, 2024 @ 6:47 am

  3474. Manny,

    Sorry, but I do not remember the Liberty (Park) Restaurant at 6640 Holabird Ave. which was just east of the main gate. I looked it up and it is now listed as Soprano’s Pizza.

    The only local eateries left on Holabird Ave. from the good old days are Travelers Lounge (formerly the Holabird Inn), Squire’s Italian Restaurant, and The New Phillips Inn (formerly the Keystone Inn).

    Best,

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 25, 2024 @ 3:23 pm

  3475. If the thread isn’t dead, I met my wife at the blood bank of Johns Hopkin Hospital in Baltimore courtesy of her uncle. Best meet of my life. We are looking at 60 years of marriage this October. We enjoy our 3 children, 4 grandchildren, and 6 great grandchildren. The whole family is in the area of Spokane, WA. A bit of a hike from Dundalk.

    Comment by Daniel Ritchie — February 25, 2024 @ 5:16 pm

  3476. Dan,

    The latest thread is always open. You are certainly a hike from Dundalk. I am 76 but certainly not old enough to have great grandchildren. You must be one of our oldest contributors.

    Stay healthy!

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 25, 2024 @ 6:23 pm

  3477. Manny (3473) I remember the Liberty. A real greasy spoon, had many great Saturday breakfasts there. It seems like the song “Stand By Your Man” was always playing there. A lot of truck drivers ate there.

    Comment by bill leach jr — February 25, 2024 @ 9:15 pm

  3478. Hello,
    I remember the Holabird Inn. I was in B-13-66, from 12-65 to 3-66. My girlfriend flew in from CA for Xmas, stayed at the Lord Baltimore downtown. We went to a club, saw Little Anthony and later Len Barry. Best Xmas ever. Met wife while in grad school, USC and just celebrated 50 years. It’s been a good ride. take care

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 26, 2024 @ 10:30 am

  3479. Hello:
    This is third try at post, does not work.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 26, 2024 @ 10:34 am

  3480. Hello: I was in B-13-66 from Dec 65 to March 66. I remember the Holabird Inn and the Block. My girlfriend flew in from CA for Xmas. I met my wife while in Grad school at USC. Just celebrated our 50th anniversary. It’s been a great ride. Take care .

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 26, 2024 @ 10:40 am

  3481. Hi, Anyone having trouble posting?

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 27, 2024 @ 10:36 am

  3482. Hello: Anyone having problems posting?

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 28, 2024 @ 10:38 am

  3483. Hi, anyone having problems posting?

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 28, 2024 @ 10:40 am

  3484. Hello:
    I tried to post for a few weeks and it would not work. I emailed Craig Sprout
    So this is a test.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 29, 2024 @ 10:48 am

  3485. Hi Richard,

    I am glad after several attempts that you were finally able to get your postings through.

    Thanks to Craig Spout for his assistance.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 29, 2024 @ 6:29 pm

  3486. I meant Craig Sprout!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 29, 2024 @ 6:32 pm

  3487. Hello: I’ve unsuccessfully tried to post for the last three weeks. This is a test. I asked Craig Sprout to help and he’s been working on it for the past few days. This is a test.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — February 29, 2024 @ 9:33 pm

  3488. @Richard, I’m sorry it took me so long to find the problem. I am glad that everything is working now.

    Thanks to everyone for letting me know aboyt the issue.

    –C

    Comment by mtsprout — March 1, 2024 @ 11:05 am

  3489. Greetings,

    This is just a reminder to everyone that Craig Sprout fulfills the role of our website troubleshooter for free. We appreciate the time and effort that he has provided to us site contributors for the last several years.

    Thanks Craig!

    He can be reached at csprout@gmail.com

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 1, 2024 @ 12:05 pm

  3490. Thank you from Germany too Craig!

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 1, 2024 @ 4:31 pm

  3491. Every year at this time, the Dundalk Eagle holds its reader approved local favorites selections by vote in the Dundalk area. This year, the favorite included:

    Squires, Holabird Ave. (founded in 1952) – Best All Around Restaurant, Italian Restaurant, Carry-out Restaurant, Pizza, Dinner, and Food and Drink Restaurant.

    Costas Inn, 4100 North Point Blvd. – (founded in 1971) – Best Seafood Restaurant, Crab Cake, Crab Soup, and Raw Bar.

    Do you remember?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 2, 2024 @ 3:03 pm

  3492. Phil,

    Squires, yes. Since I was at Holabird in the mid 50’s Costas was after my time, no. I do remember a sub place on the corner near the fort. I do not know if was Harleys or not. I seem to remember another name but then sometimes I cannot remember my name.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 3, 2024 @ 6:41 am

  3493. Hello: I was watching an old Karate Kid movie, that was about Okinawa ( I don’t think it actually was on the island). Anyway, it got me going to look up the island and location of my old unit, the 526th MI Detachment, Camp Kue (no trace) Very different look, trouble finding much outside of Naha and Kadena, anyway I found my way to the MI Hall of Fame link, never knew about it. I didn’t recognize any of the names except for Mrs. Lillian Klecka, most of you oldsters remember her as “Ma” Klecka, typing teacher. Most have a description of their service.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — March 3, 2024 @ 11:49 am

  3494. Manny,

    I do not recall where Harley’s was located on Holabird Ave. but I know it was near the main entrance. I did not go there while in the service because I was living at home on the west side of town. We had a Harley’s not far from my parents’ home. I still have the recipe for the Harleyburger.

    Squire’s has expanded exponentially since the Romiti Family purchased it from the original owner in 1952. It is now one of the largest and best-loved restaurants in Dundalk.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 3, 2024 @ 12:30 pm

  3495. Harleys was right across from the main gate. About 3 buildings west of the Holabird Inn.
    The Liberty, the Holabird Inn and Squires, the Keystone.
    A lot of great memories.
    Don’t forget the 123 Club and the NCO Club.
    Bill

    Comment by bill leach jr — March 3, 2024 @ 9:16 pm

  3496. Bill,

    You have hit all of the highlights! Congrats!

    Anybody else with other restaurant or night club memories for Dundalk and East Baltimore City?

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 3, 2024 @ 11:20 pm

  3497. I would go to the Holabird Inn on payday and treat myself to a steak sandwich and a cup of coffee.

    I went to a place on the southeast corner (I think) of Holabird Ave and Dundalk a couple of times.

    I went to the 123 Club quite a few times. A WAC in the Agent course would ask me to go with her and she would buy a pitcher of beer for us. I had never drank beer before and I especially did not like what they served there. But I went with her because she didn’t want to go by herself.

    During a quick search of the MI Hall of Fame, besides Mrs Klecka, I saw another name that I recognized: Mr. Joseph Luongo with whom I worked at Frankfurt Station from Nov 65 thru June 1966. He was one of two Operations Officers at Frankfurt Station.

    The other one was Major Ed Kupek and our CO was LTC Leonard Pydeski who was a real gentleman and a pleasure to work for. For sure I will have to take a closer look at the list of Hall of Fame members.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 3, 2024 @ 11:23 pm

  3498. Squires was our pay day spot. Pepperoni-mushroom pie with a couple long neck Buds. Great place. Much larger and more of a “commercial” vibe. Haven’t been in several years. Great memories.

    Comment by Jack Lewis — March 4, 2024 @ 9:02 am

  3499. I remember:

    Taking my then friends (2 of whom have now passed away) on a tour of the post in my night mist blue 1966 Ford Custom during the Christmas season in 1971 or so. They still had an MP at the main gate who waved us in because my stock looking-vehicle looked like an official government car. It was nightime and the post was decorated with festive lights throughout. It was magical!

    In the mid seventies, taking my then girlfriend Rita to the south parking lot where it was dark so we could do some spooning.

    Finally, in December 2005, with my young family, driving through what was then the former post and seeing the USAINTC building as a pile of rubble. It had recently been bulldozed after providing good service for just over 50 years. I had a chance to get the corner stone but I passed it up.

    But why do I lament?

    I am still very thankful to have you guys so we can share our memories of Fort Holabird and our time there together.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 4, 2024 @ 9:30 am

  3500. Squires was our spot. Pay day found us there for a pepperoni and mushroom pie with a couple long neck Buds. Great place. Much larger now, not the same small, intimate feeling

    Comment by Jack Lewis — March 4, 2024 @ 8:40 pm

  3501. No memories of B’more as Maureen and I lived out on Eastern Ave and I commuted. When we did get away it was to both our family homes in NJ and CT.
    So… what do I have to talk about?
    Hey! Got an idea!
    I know it’s ‘way off the wall but as we represent such an infinitesimal percentage of the populace at large, I thought I’d narrow it down even more with another of those out-of-the-mainstream things. So here goes-
    How many licensed pilots among us?
    Birdman Billy

    Comment by Bill Schulz — March 7, 2024 @ 7:01 pm

  3502. Not quite a pilot, but I do have five hours training w/ a Cessna 170. I was in a flying club until a trainee ran off the runway and collapsed the running gear. The other plane was a Taylorcraft getting new fabric, so no planes. This and we were flying out of Hawthorne almost into the flight path of LAX, so I quit the flying club. The instructor was flying “third seat” in an United Airlines commercial plane trying to get hours so he charged the enormous sum of $2 per flying lesson [1960].

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 9, 2024 @ 4:52 pm

  3503. Bernie:
    Parachuted out of a Taylorcraft back in 1958, but that is a whole other story.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 10, 2024 @ 6:33 am

  3504. Manny,
    Tell the story. I’m surprised you carried a parachute in a small plane like the Taylorcraft.
    Bernie

    Comment by bernie thielen — March 10, 2024 @ 12:14 pm

  3505. Bernie,
    Skydiving. Two shutes,i.e., main and emergency. A tite squeeze.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 10, 2024 @ 3:42 pm

  3506. I also have a question (thread) for the group.
    Many of our MI MOS’and/or duties required us to be linguists.
    I was a German language interrogator (96C2L29). I learned German in high school in California and France.
    How many of you were linguists in MI, what language did you speak and where did you learn the language?

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 12, 2024 @ 6:16 pm

  3507. Gary,
    Not used as a linguist but fluent in Gerrman. Born there and came to the States at age 3. Parents and family spoke German at home. Never asked about language skills so I do not know if anyone knew. I guess it was easier to send folks to Army Language School in California. Army logic!
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 12, 2024 @ 6:30 pm

  3508. Manny,
    Well Adler is definitely a German word (eagle) and is “Manny” a derivative of “Manfred”? We need to speak “auf Deutsch” some time.

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 12, 2024 @ 7:10 pm

  3509. Does “pig Latin” count?

    Comment by bill leach jr — March 12, 2024 @ 8:13 pm

  3510. Gary,
    Manfred is correct(I wrote in German but the site wouldn’t post).
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 13, 2024 @ 5:34 am

  3511. Are there any other bilingual speakers out there?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 13, 2024 @ 2:54 pm

  3512. Ref 3509….Bill, I don’t think we had any “pig Latin” interrogators at JROC in Berlin. :-))

    Manfred / Phil…..I wonder why we can’t post in German? We learned something new about our beloved site!

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 13, 2024 @ 5:47 pm

  3513. Gary,

    Should we ask Craig?

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 13, 2024 @ 5:59 pm

  3514. My MOS had a foreign language capability attached to it: 97D2L92 (Spanish). Nearing graduation from Holabird, I did request the Panama Canal Zone as my third overseas choice – Vietnam was my first choice, followed by Japan and then Canal Zone. Instead, I got sent to West Germany. Go figure. All of the guys in the Field Teams that I served with spoke German expect for me.

    During my law enforcement career in California I got to use my Spanish every single day.

    Oh, Spanish was my first language even though I was born in Texas. I had to attend summer school after first grade because I did not speak enough English. But I managed to learn enough to be passed to the 2nd grade.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 13, 2024 @ 11:17 pm

  3515. Tony,
    I served with two guys at Holabird who spoke very little English and conversed mainly in Spanish. Neither was classified. Both were from Brownsville, Texas; born and raised there. I only went to Squires once where they got into a fight with each other(in Spanish so I had no idea why except they were drinking beer with hot pepper flakes which didn’t help). I never saw them again. They seemed to have some kind of a painting or cleaning job as far as I could make out. I wonder if Monterey (ALS)had English as a choice?
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 14, 2024 @ 5:46 am

  3516. Does anyone else speak Spanish fluently?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 14, 2024 @ 8:03 am

  3517. My first language was Spanish, but went to elementary school in CA in the 50’s and Spanish not allowed. Later took courses in college and got fairly fluent again. At Holabird almost the whole class went to Monterey, only one directly to Vietnam. I was sent back to LA field office and I did use it on Background interviews.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — March 14, 2024 @ 10:07 am

  3518. My first language was Spanish, but went to elementary school in CA in the 50’s and Spanish not allowed. Later took courses in college and got fairly fluent again. At Holabird almost the whole class went to Monterey, only one directly to Vietnam. I was sent back to LA field office and I did use it on Background interviews.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — March 14, 2024 @ 10:07 am

  3519. Phil und Manfred
    Ich probiere es von Deutschland aus!

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 15, 2024 @ 10:45 am

  3520. Phil /Manny

    Did that post in German go through? From this side, it appears it did?

    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 15, 2024 @ 3:22 pm

  3521. Gary,
    Ja, gans gut.
    Manny

    Comment by manny adler — March 15, 2024 @ 4:28 pm

  3522. Friends,

    At 1:29 a.m. this morning, a huge cargo ship collided with the Francis Scott Key Bridge in the Baltimore outer harbor area. Six people are unaccounted for and two people have been hospitalized. All crew members inboard the ship, the Dali, are safe. Seven vehicles fell into the water. The entire center of the bridge was taken down and all commerce in and out of the port of Baltimore by sea has stopped.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 26, 2024 @ 10:22 am

  3523. Phil,

    I saw this tragedy on the German news this morning. It appears that the ship had some serious technical problems. I saw the governor’s statement that over 30k commuters use the bridge daily. How far is the bridge from Ft. Holabird? I believe one end of the bridge is in Sparrows Point?
    Gary

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 26, 2024 @ 6:25 pm

  3524. This bridge was not there when I attended Ft Holabird for my MI training in 1965. I had to look at a map to see where it was and I saw that one end of it is between Dundalk and Sparrow Point.

    It was a very sad incident and it will certainly affect many, many users of that bridge.

    In October 1989, we had a powerful earthquake that hit the San Francisco Bay Area. The quake caused a section of the Oakland – SF Bay Bridge to collapse. While thankfully it was only one section, it still rendered the bridge unusable for months. It affected over two hundred thousand of commuters and visitors to have to take a very long detour in and out of the City.

    But watching the video amazed me that the entire bridge in Baltimore would collapse by the impact! It is hard for me to imagine that a bridge of that size can seem so fragile.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 26, 2024 @ 9:55 pm

  3525. I find it strange that the ship with loss of power managed to hit the support dead center. From Singapore. Where was the crew from?

    Comment by bill leach — March 26, 2024 @ 10:19 pm

  3526. , Tony, and Bill,

    Thank for your questions and comments. The crew is from India. The construction crews that lost their lives were from Mexico (3), Guatamala (1), Honduras (1), and El Salvador (1).

    Structural engineers have commented that a major strike by a large ship on any of the three concrete piers would have taken the steel truss bridge down. The Dali, fully loaded, weighs 95,000 tons. They should have had barriers around each of the piers to lessen and possibly prevent most of the impact.

    35,000 drivers cross the bridge every day. The inner harbor has two tunnels that cross under the Patapsco River, but no other bridges. Hazmat trucks will have to be re-routed as they are not permitted to use the tunnels.

    The driving distance from the main Ft. Holabird gate to the entrance to the bridge is just ten minutes or 4.7 miles.

    Phil

    35,00

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 27, 2024 @ 8:41 am

  3527. Gary,

    I am sorry that your name was omitted in the salutation in #3526.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 27, 2024 @ 8:44 am

  3528. On Nov 7, 2007, a 901 ft long container ship, the Cosco Busan, struck a one of the towers of the SF – Oakland Bay Bridge. The ship was moving in the dense fog and hit the support tower with a glancing blow. The ship sustained major damage and spilled 50,000 gallons of fuel into the bay.

    The ship struck a protection device that was installed around the tower’s base to protect it against just that type of collision. The device is designed to absorb energy and it did its job and prevented any damage to the bridge’s infastructure.

    The nearby Golden Gate bridge has an even more robust protection system in place. But fortunately, it has not been tested so far.

    The fuel spill from the Cosco Busan caused the demise of thousands of local birds. The clean up cost was in excess of $70 million. The ship’s pilot pled guilty and the company paid a heavy fine. Thankfully, there were no injuries or deaths caused by the collision.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 27, 2024 @ 12:10 pm

  3529. Gary,

    Concerning your second question, the Key Bridge does not connect directly with Sparrows Point. The land immediately to the northeast of the bridge is the southern most point of Dundalk. The Baltimore Beltway, I-695, which has now been severed because of the loss of the bridge, connects this point of Dundalk with Sparrows Point by a smaller bridge over Bear Creek. Interestingly, the ship also passed by Colgate Creek, where it enters the Patapsco River, on its way to the collision with the Key Bridge.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 28, 2024 @ 8:07 am

  3530. Phil, in looking at Ft Holabird and seeing Colgate Creek, the famous creek seems to originate within Holabird land. Is the creek one one of those tidal waterways that is fed by the bay waters rather than some source upstream?

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 28, 2024 @ 9:11 pm

  3531. Changing the subject a bit, I am currently reading a wonderful book, The Making of a Spy: Memoir of a German Boy Soldier Turned American Army Intelligence Agent written by Gerhardt B. Thamm.

    I’m about halfway through the book and I am finding it so incredibly interesting. I can relate to so much of the experiences and procedures and locations that the author is describing! Much of the intelligence activities takes place in Frankfurt which is where I was first assigned.

    It is about collecting information by spies that were recruited by Army Intelligence case officers aka Agent Handlers. The author describes things that my unit did during our operations. Even the terms and actions such as Contact Report, Intelligence Information Report, intelligence contingency funds, switching license plates, and safe houses are the very same things that we did while performing our duties.

    I am finding this book so very interesting and exciting and it helps me understand that the things our unit did in the late 60s were being done back in the early 1950s by Area Studies agents of that time.

    He describes the location of their office on a certain street which was on the very same street that our office was located. He also mentions the 6th Floor of the IG Farben Bldg which is where we had to relocate after a security breach.

    The book is available through Amazon as an ebook or paperback.

    Comment by Tony Montemayor — March 28, 2024 @ 9:52 pm

  3532. Re:3530

    Hi Tony,

    The origins of Colgate Creek begin from two tiny tributaries. One is just under Main Street, south of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad tracks and the other begins right behind Cummins Apartments. They both come up from holes in the ground, merge together and ultimately flow into the Patapsco River approximately one mile away.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 28, 2024 @ 10:27 pm

  3533. Thanks all. This site is a post-doc education.

    Comment by manny adler — March 29, 2024 @ 5:30 am

  3534. Manny,

    Thanks for your inspirational leadership for over the past twenty-four plus years! You, Bernie Thielen and Bill Leach, and a few others have been with this site since the beginning.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 29, 2024 @ 7:42 am

  3535. Phil….
    And thank you for all that you do to keep this site active and alive!

    Comment by Gary Miller — March 29, 2024 @ 4:01 pm

  3536. Gary,

    I could not do it without you. Thanks for welcoming me to this site on 9/14/2013. Let me know the next time you will be visiting your son.

    Phil

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 29, 2024 @ 4:19 pm

  3537. Key Bridge Post Mortem:

    It was one of only 3% of the bridges in the country that are classified as fracture critical meaning that if a certain portion of the bridge were to fail, the whole structure would collapse. The bridge did have some pier protection in place including a few smaller dolphins. A dolphin is a cylindrical island barrier that acts as a bumper for the bridge supports. This obviously was not enough. The sheer force of the 984 foot ship, carrying more than 4,000 containers and traveling at 8 knots (albout 9 mph) was simply too great. This action would have decimated 99% of all similar lightly protected bridges according to a front page article in today’s Baltimore Sun by Gardner and Mann.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 31, 2024 @ 9:41 am

  3538. Treatment of Vietnam Era Vets by Others…

    I subscribe to The VVA Veteran which is published 6 times a year. From time to time, I see comments in this publication about how they were treated by older members of the American Legion, the VFW, and other military-related fraternal organizations. Vets report about their initial reception upon entering one of these halls operated by older vets. Once they find out that you are a Vietnam War Era Vet, the welcome turns cool. Have any of you experienced any similar situations when you first returned home 50 plus years ago?

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 7, 2024 @ 9:33 am

  3539. Interesting! In the 80ies I belonged to a group of Vietnam Veterans involved in building a memorial for fallen veterans in Mercer County New Jersey and we held our first meetings at one of the local VFWs. The reception was warm so I joined there. Later we held meetings at an American Legion and it was the same.
    Perhaps a later time period was the reason for the welcome. I did hear that story from one or two Vietnam Vets and that happened in the 70ies.
    Times do change.
    Jim Wiles

    Comment by Jim Wiles — April 16, 2024 @ 6:43 pm

  3540. Re #3539
    Yes I found this to be the standard reaction from older veterans and people in general in 1970. I think there was a total of three older veterans, all of whom I had known before entering the army, who actually said: ” Welcome home soldier.” Today, the biggest joke is that there are hundreds of thousands of veterans who served in Vietnam who never even heard the sound of a rifle being fired in their direction. Seven out of ten Vietnam Vets were REMFs. Only three out of ten were actually in the line of fire. Most people don’t realize this. This was also true of WW II and Korea. Many of those old vets who looked down on Vietnam vets were also REMFs..

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — April 18, 2024 @ 8:04 pm

  3541. For what it’s worth. Bernie
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The tooth-to-tail ratio (T3R), in military jargon, is the amount of military personnel it takes to supply and support (“tail”) each combat soldier (“tooth”).

    US Army Conflict Tooth-to-tail
    1917-2005
    T3R (ratio)
    ————– ———–
    WW1 1 : 2.6
    WW2 1 : 4.3
    Korea 1 : 12.3
    Vietnam 1 : 12.9
    Cold War (1974) 1 : 14.4
    Gulf War (1991) 1 : 4.9
    Iraq 2005 1 : 8.1

    Comment by bernie thielen — April 19, 2024 @ 6:32 pm

  3542. Stats are never presented correctly! Sorry

    Comment by bernie thielen — April 19, 2024 @ 6:34 pm

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