February 17, 2003

Fort Holabird or the Twilight Zone?

Filed under: Uncategorized — Jim @ 7:11 pm

The trip from Fort Dix to Baltimore lasted approximately three hours. It had occurred to me that it was the first time in eight weeks that I actually was sitting in a relatively comfortable seat. In basic training, there are virtually no chairs. True, one sits in training rooms and in the mess hall, but those chairs are built for function, not for comfort. Sitting on a bunk is just not the same as sitting in a real chair. I wonder if today I would find a seat on Greyhound bus quite as wonderful as it seemed then.

More importantly, however, the trip meant three hours alone – away from other soldiers and drill sergeants for the first time in more than eight weeks. It had been easy to forget that the world did not stop at the Fort Dix gates, but rather it was humming along quite nicely. The tiny island of civilian life on the Greyhound bus gave me three hours to stare out the window and think about the past eight weeks, about my life prior to those eight weeks, and how strange it seemed that things I had nothing to do with and had no control over placed me on this bus headed south to some damned place no one seemed to know anything about.

Once in Baltimore, I dragged my jam-packed duffel bag off the bus, and asked a few people where I could catch the bus to Fort Holabird. One person said, “I heard of Fort Meade, but I really don’t know anything about Fort Holabird. Are you sure you don’t mean Fort Meade?” A couple other people were equally as ignorant about Fort Holabird. I thought Christ, these people live here, and they never heard of the place? What the hell…??? Finally, I asked the information person at the bus terminal, who mercifully knew what bus I should take to get to this mystery military post.

Shortly thereafter, duffel bag and I boarded the local bus that would take us to the base. I asked the bus driver to let me know when we got to Fort Holabird. “No problem,” he said. I was more than a little relieved to confirm that I was on the right bus and that the driver actually knew where the damned place was. The uniform again provoked stares, smiles and glares from the other passengers. By this time, I was becoming accustomed to it. Besides, I was tired, and I just wanted to get to wherever the hell I was supposed to be.

“Here’s the base, son,” the driver said, as he stopped the bus by the gate, in front of a guardhouse. I struggled with the duffle bag down the bus aisle and thanked the driver as I turned to step off through the bus doors. As I got off the bus, I was horrified to see an MP (military policeman) looking at me and walking at a brisk pace from the guardhouse in my direction. Oh hell. Here it comes. He was a tall, staff sergeant, the same rank as my drill sergeant. I didn’t think it possible, but the MP looked even more frightening than the drill sergeants I had just spent eight weeks with. He was wearing the white MP helmet and a black MP armband. His trousers were bloused over his spit-shined airborne boots, and he wore a 45 semi-automatic sidearm. I braced myself for what I was certain would be a ration of shit about something or other I was not doing right.

Before I could say that I was reporting for duty (that’s what one is supposed to say), he said, “Hi. You need help with that bag?”

I said, “Pardon me?” What did he say??

He repeated, “How ya doing? You look like you could use some help with that bag.”

I was speechless. I could only nod my head in the affirmative, something that would have unleashed a torrent of invective from a drill sergeant about the importance of “sounding off like you got a pair!”

The MP looked at me for a moment, and I thought, OK, let the hollering begin. He didn’t holler; He said, “You look beat,” and he effortlessly tossed my duffel bag over his shoulder and carried it to the guardhouse. He set it down and asked, “Where on the base are you headed?” Still in shock, I told him that I had no idea where I was headed. I just knew that I was ordered to come here. He smiled – he actually smiled – and said, “No problem. Let me take a look at your orders.”

He took a quick look at the orders and said, “O.K. The building you have to report to is about a quarter mile down this street on the right side – big brick building – you can’t miss it. When you get there, ask for Sergeant Perez. He’ll get you squared away.”

I thanked him and began walk in the direction he had indicated. The MP shouted behind me, “Wait!” I thought, OK, I knew that this was too good to be true – this must be some kind of trap. Now, the hollering will begin.

I turned in his direction and said, “Yes?”

He said, “It’s really too far for you to walk with that bag. I’ll have someone drive you.” OK, Jimbo, this must be some kind of a Twilight-friggin’-Zone thing. There is no way that white-helmeted, bloused-trousered, pistol packin’staff sergeant MP just said that he would get me a ride because it was too far for me to walk with a heavy bag.

But, that’s what he said.

The MP got on the phone, and in a minute or two a corporal appeared in an Army car and said, “You the guy who needs a ride? Hop in.”. During the short ride to my destination, I couldn’t think of anything to say to the corporal, other than to thank him for the lift. “Here’s the barracks building” he said. “Sergeant Perez should be in the orderly room. He’ll check you in.”

I found the orderly room, and, just as promised, Sergeant Perez was there. He was a sergeant-first class (three stripes up and two rockers). Again, I found myself thinking that it was absolutely impossible for a sergeant-first-class to be anything other than mean and ornery. When I entered the room, breathless from having lugged the bag up the stairs, Sergeant Perez looked up from the papers on his desk, and said, “Yes? What can I do for you?” Wait a minute. This is the way civilized people speak. Sergeants don’t talk this way. What in Christ’s name is going on here?

“I’m reporting for duty, sergeant.”

“Oh, you must be one of the new students. You’re a little early, but that is not a problem.” Did he say “students?”

I could no longer contain myself. I blurted out, “What is this place?”

“You don’t know?” the sergeant said.

“No I don’t, and I have not been able to find anyone who knows anything about this place.”

“This is the United States Army Military Intelligence School.”

I stood there in silence trying to process it all. After a few seconds, I asked, “What will I be doing here?”

“Let’s take a look at your orders, and we’ll see.” I handed him my orders, and he said, “You are a 96C. You’re an interrogator.”

“An interrogator?” He remained patient, despite my stupidly repeating everything I had just heard.

“Yes, that’s what a 96C is. I also see that you speak German.”

“Well, I took the German test. How can you tell from looking at the orders that I speak German?”

The sergeant explained, “It says that your MOS (military occupation specialty) is 96C2L29. The “96C” tells me that you are an interrogator, and the “2L29” tells me that you speak German.” I couldn’t help thinking back to that miserable bastard at Fort Dix who tried to intimidate me into not taking the German test. (see 1/3/03)

The sergeant, still looking at my orders, continued, “Oh, now I know why you might be a little puzzled by all this. I see that you are a draftee. We don’t get many draftees. Most guys enlist in order to get into Military Intelligence and they know in advance what it is all about.”

“Well, it’s close to the end of the work day here, so let me get you some bedding and show you to the barracks.” Hold it. A sergeant-first-class is going to get my bedding and show me to the barracks? People in hotels show you to your room. People in the Army don’t show you to your room. Twilight Zone….definitely.

He emerged from another room with sheets, a pillow and a blanket, and walked me down the hall to a large bay area, with approximately twenty double bunks on each side of the room. Lockers ran down the center of the bay. “I believe you’re the first one here, so you can pick your spot. Make up your bunk, and stop by the office when you’re done to pick up some forms.”

I made up the bunk on autopilot and emptied the contents of my duffel bag into my locker. It was all still too much to think about. When I finished, I reported back to the orderly room.

Sergeant Perez handed me a couple forms, and said, “Fill these out when you have a chance. We’ll need them next week.” He took out a map of the base, and circled things like that mess hall and the PX (Post Exchange – i.e. the store). He said, “I think you may have missed dinner at the mess hall, but you can get a burger or something at the PX.” A burger? I can eat by myself? I can go to a store? And, I’m not being hollered at?

“Thanks, that sounds great,” I said, beginning to actually speak to Sergeant Perez as if he was a regular person.

“So, what are your plans for the weekend?”

“Pardon me? My plans?”

“”Yeah, are you going to hang around the base? You could go into Baltimore. You could go to D.C.”

“You mean that I can leave the base when I want?”

“Sure. Just be back here by 7 o’clock, Monday morning. That’s when we start the classes.”

‘You mean I can go home for the weekend, if I want?”

He smiled and said, “That depends on where you live. I don’t think going to California would make much sense. Where do you live?”

“New Jersey,” I replied.

“That’s no problem. The buses run regularly between Baltimore and Newark.”

Absolutely stupefied, I said, “Please forgive me. I just want to make sure that I understand. I just checked in here, and I can turn around and go home for the weekend, if I want?”

“That’s right. Just be back by Monday Morning.”

“Do I need a written pass or anything?”

“Nope. Not necessary. Do you have civilian clothes with you?” Did he say civilian clothes? Where’s Rod Serling?

“No. We weren’t allowed to have civilian clothes at Fort Dix.”

“Well, you may want to bring some back with you from home. You only have to wear your uniform during duty hours. Unless you have some kind of extra duty, civilian clothes are fine around here after duty.” This cannot be.

Perez continued, “If you have no further questions, I’m going to hit the road. See you Monday morning. Have a nice weekend.” And he left.

I sprinted to a pay phone to call my family and girlfriend to breathlessly tell them I was coming home. “Are you in trouble?” my mother asked. So did my girlfriend. I promised I would bring them all up to date when I got home.

A few hours later, I found myself back on the Greyhound bus, this time heading north. I wondered how the cosmic cards fell such that I ended up being selected by be trained as an interrogator. Had some of those psychological profiles we took identified me as a latent knuckle-breaker? I reasoned that the job of an interrogator is to question prisoners of war, and the only place I could think of that would have a supply of prisoners of war was Vietnam. Was this a good thing? All this was happening way too fast. I would wait until Monday to think about being an interrogator.

All I knew was that I was going home for the weekend and that for the first time in months I felt just a little bit like a human being.


  1. Enjoyed your site. Brought back memories of my posting back in 1955(spent entire time at Ft. Holabird-55 thru 57)with the Headquarters Company.

    I assume you were there during the Vietman era? It had its share of chickenshit, but nothing like basic or advanced. Thamks for bringing back some memories.

    Comment by manny adler — February 12, 2004 @ 6:54 pm

  2. My dad was stationed at Ft. Holabird mid-50’s to 1963. I had no idea it was military intelligence. Yes, he spoke German, In fact his father was Italian (from Mass.) and mother German. He also married a German lady. Can you tell me anything more about what was done there? Where would I find out on his discharge papers or whatever what his actual job description was? Is there anyone who was stationed there (like Manny) who would have known? Folks have been dead for years – they destroyed almost all photos from childhood and ALL papers of any kind including personal letters before they died. Not one piece of paper left in house other than Dad’s discharge and a few photos from pre-war Germany. Thank you very much – any help greatly appreciated. E-mail address is case-sensitive – be sure to use caps, etc. where needed.

    Comment by Brenda O'Connor — March 9, 2004 @ 6:11 am

  3. Manny Adler – This is one of those “Do you know?”. I attended the agents course starting 2 Jan. 1956 and then assigned to Korea. Only one guy in our class didn’t get a TS clearance because he was a Fullbright scholar in England. Supposedly he was assigned to Hq,Holabird which didn’t make sense to me. What a golden opportunity to learn agents names. He was from Kansas City and I never thought that I would forget his name. He was a nice guy and married. Any remote possibilities that you might have run on to him. Bernie

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — May 8, 2004 @ 9:10 pm

  4. My dad attended the agent handlers course at Fort Holabird in the late 1950s, in fact duing the 1958 NY Giants- Baltimore Colts world championship. He returned for refresher training prior to going to Viet Nam in 1966. Does anyone remember him, his name was Norman J. Melody? Does anyone have any photos of Fort Holabird?

    Comment by Paul Melody — September 2, 2004 @ 9:39 am

  5. My dad was stationed at Ft Holabird after returning from Germany 1955-1956. He was an MP and said the base was pretty desserted when he got there. He doesn’t remember a lot of details but does have few stories to tell. I am retired USAF, Oct 1994.

    Comment by Phil Kindel — October 2, 2004 @ 2:23 am

  6. Trying to do some research for a “memoir” I’m writing. I spent 3 months at Ft. Holabird, Jan thru Mar 1969, training at the school as 96D! I think. That’s a “clerk typist with top secret clearance.” Then off to Saigon for 1 1/2 years. So, where is Holabird in relationship to Baltimore? I don’t remember and can’t find it on the map. Anyone remember?

    Comment by Chris Abel — November 12, 2004 @ 11:12 pm

  7. I believe that it was in a place called Dundalk (sp?), a short bus ride to Baltimore. I believe we were there about the same time.

    Comment by Jim - Parkway Rest Stop — November 13, 2004 @ 2:55 am

  8. I was at Holabird from sep 65 to jun 68. It is in Dundalk, part of Baltimore county.I had the same shock of going from basic training at Dix to the freedom of the Bird. During the build-up for Vietnam, everyone assigned to a school was “frozen” (code 9). They didn’t want to slow the flow of new people to Nam so they didn’t want to change the personel responsable to keep the flow going. I was a 97D.20, intelligence coordinator, assigned to S2 (personnel security) we issued and validated security clearances for in-comeing students and permenent party personnel. I spent many a night(too many) across the street at the Holabird Inn. Thanks for the memories!

    Comment by bill leach — November 21, 2004 @ 12:28 am

  9. I was quite suprised to find a website of people who have actually heard of Ft. Holabird, much less stationed there. I was assigned there out of Ft Dix from Nov. 1967 thru the spring of 1968. I trained as a 96D2T, Imagery Interpreter, TIFF qualified. After that, I was with the 1st MI Btn in DaNag for a year. After that, I was with the 15th MI Btn at Ft. Bragg.

    Comment by Stephen D Griffis — December 1, 2004 @ 11:11 am

  10. If you went to school in 1967, I issued or validated your security clearance and checked you in on your first day.


    Comment by bill leach — December 1, 2004 @ 10:56 pm

  11. I enjoyed reading your story and everyone’s comments. My grandfather was stationed and died at Fort Holabird while in the Counter Intelligence Corps in the late 1940’s after WWII. There was a hall dedicated in his memory there. It was Hubbard Hall. Does anyone remember it? I am actually trying to find if the building or the dedication plaques still exist. I would love to find it for my grandmother. She will be 85 years old in a few weeks! Any comments would be appreciated and enjoyed.

    Comment by Maria Franco — December 7, 2004 @ 9:18 pm

  12. A group of us transferred from Fort Knox to Fort Holabird after basic training in 1956. Most of us were draftees and were taking the Counter Intelligence Course for typists as it could be done in the 2 years we would spend in the army. I remember ‘marching’ my group to the mess hall before we found what a heaven Fort Holabird was. Though I thought we would go to Korea, most of my group went to Europe. I was very lucky to be sent to France where I spent my time at a field office in civilian clothes! I have fond memories of Fort Holabird.

    Comment by Louis J. Maher — December 15, 2004 @ 6:05 pm

  13. This is great, folks who know about Ft. Holabird (USAINTS). I was sent there directly after basic training at Ft. Lewis, Washington in late 1969. I too experienced the culture shock of going from concentration camp basic training to the laid-back Ft. Holabird atmosphere (don’t you dare salute anything lower than a General, and don’t march, just walk).

    I was trained as a 96DT, Aerial Imagery Interpreter. After that, a number of us were also sent to an advanced Aerial Imagery Interpretation course combined with an NCO academy. We graduated at Spec. 5 level.

    Most of that class went from there to Viet Nam, but 6 of us had order changes at the last minute and were sent to the 502nd MI Battalion in Seoul, Korea. Best time of my life.

    Comment by Richard Lovelace — December 29, 2004 @ 12:51 pm

  14. I served with the 1st MI Btn (ARS) in Vietnam in 1970-71 with 3 months in Danang, 3 months in Nahtrang, and 6 months in Pleiku. Flew U-6A Davilland Beavers. We were the “Pleku Good Guys”. Flew I and II Corps daily delivering intel pictures.

    Paul F. Webb, CW3 Retired

    Comment by Paul F. Webb — January 12, 2005 @ 11:10 pm

  15. Great story site. I share many of your memories, I too went from DIX to Holabird and Bill you must have checked me out. In fact you must have found a problem as they claimed to have lost my personnel records about the time the rest of my Class shipped out to Vietnam or Korea as a 96D. I spent the next 3 months as CQ working nights for Cpt. Doyle Smith. Oh well it gave me the opportunity to one very cute School Teacher at “The Keystone”. The Teacher eventually became my wife. Anybody else remember this cool bar with the hot chicks and how bout “Summer In The City – Lovin’ Spoonful – 66” and the Legendary Jim Palmer and Johnny Unitas what a sports town.

    From there I went on to 502nd with Gen. Bonesteel’s 8th and some of my former Classmates. My most memorable memories were working with Sharon Tates father Maj.Frank Tate and our shops involvment with the “Blue House and Pueblo Incidents of 68”. I have also managed to communicate with a few of my old mates from there.

    Keep the site up

    Jon Tallman

    Comment by Jon Tallman — January 13, 2005 @ 10:26 pm

  16. What great memories….Ft. Holabird…I liked it so much I went twice. In 1966, right after basic at Ft. Polk, LA. I went to Holabird to become an Analyst (96B),,on to Ft. Bragg for some interesting times and then SVN for a year. Back to Holabird for CI Agent class then the 113th MI Gp in Chicago. 1968 Dem National Convention…good times had by all. A little more work in CONUS..and then an offer I couldn’t refuse….I’ll tell that one later.. Anyone who may have been in the same places at the same time,,shoot me an email..

    Comment by Jerry Race — January 28, 2005 @ 3:39 pm

  17. I did the ‘Bird ‘ before Berlin

    and again before the Nam. She taught me well

    I am home again.


    Comment by ljklaiber — February 1, 2005 @ 6:38 pm

  18. Hi, Wow, didnt know the “fort” was still there. I was part of the permanent personnel there in 1955-56..Medics… Worked in the laboratory. drawing blood, making slides etc and then as an assistant in the dental clinic. Were about 5 dentists there. One was a woman dentist who had been in a concentration camp and had the number tattooed on her inner wrist. Was a colonel in charge(Rudisill?) who was also a dentist..I “retired ” from the Army in april 56 but not before being transferred to the MPs there. At the time it was called CIC school and kind of “hush hush”.. memories,,Thanks for the site..

    Comment by Bob Nargi — February 19, 2005 @ 4:06 pm

  19. I was one of four guys who were photographers at Ft. Holabird during 1954 and 1955. It took four of us to relieve one guy who had numerous duties. I, too, was surprised at the freedom we had, particularly considering the security of the place. Not bad duty, but I was delighted to be discharged.

    Comment by Charlie Larus — February 24, 2005 @ 6:26 pm

  20. Fort Holabird is no longer there. It was deactivated in the 70’s, I believe. The Army Intelligence unit was moved to Arizona, to be closer to Barry Goldwater. My father enlisted there and was stationed there in 1955-57 (second and third grades for me) and again in 1960 (6th grade). I remember staying at the Reception Center (I’m not sure of the name) for about 2 weeks when we moved to the area. We had lots of great times at the Officers pool.

    Comment by Jonathan T. Kurtz — February 27, 2005 @ 11:26 am

  21. I enlisted to be an Order of Battle Analyst in late 1968, after basic at Ft. Jackson, myself, Walter “Hap” Farrell, and Brian Landry, the latter from Weston and Marlborough Mass. respectively, I was from Framingham, Mass, we found ourselves at Fort Holabird in early January 1969. We attended and graduated from the R-12, Intelligence Analyst Course and were awarded the military occupational specialty (MOS) of 96B10. All three of us went summarily to Vietnam, as Male 96B’s did in those days. Four WACS in the class all went to Germany, one male went to Germany also, the rest to Vietnam. I remember the 1,2,3 club, other students, Rocco Nudo, Ceasar Rosales, Nick Pappas, Bob Rheiner, and a confusing world at a very confusing time in history. Most of us went to the 525 M.I. Group in Vietnam, some to 5th. Group, 25th. Infantry, and other derivative units. I am now retired after a 30 year Army career and am still serving in the intelligence career field as an instructor. When I retired I was the last active duty still-serving soldier in the intelligence corps who was a Fort Holabird Graduate. Anybody who remembers me, or a fellow classmate, please make contact.. Best to all.. Jeff Gallant

    Comment by Jeffrey Gallant — March 11, 2005 @ 5:47 pm

  22. I was there. There where a lot of us that started class for 96D2T in December of 1969. I was the only one to come from Fort Bragg, NC And when I came back from Christmas leave I drove my 1958 Cady lemo. Made a few trips with it, even to Boston. It was the best time of my 2 years 6 months and 5 days of active duty. While in Danang Vietnam I worked with many guys that had gone through there and a few more after while stationed in Fort Hood, TX.

    Comment by Richard Rauenhorst — March 13, 2005 @ 1:01 am

  23. The Army sold Fort Holabird to Baltimore City for $1. It has subsequently been parceled out and redeveloped into a business/industrial park. With the exception of a VFW Post, the only building that remains is what is known locally as the old DIS building. It is located on Van Deman Street and is scheduled for demolition within the year. This building was supposedly a school of some sort at one time, including mock villages behind it. There is a wonderful piece of marble/granite on the floor of the main entrance to this building complete with a logo. The new owners of the property plan to salvage this section of the floor and incorporate it, in some way, into their new building. Call it a tribute. While the Fort may be gone, one small piece will live on.

    Comment by vzeeec9d — March 18, 2005 @ 11:11 pm


    Comment by BILL BERGHOLM — March 19, 2005 @ 3:54 pm

  25. I was in the 96B class at “Holabird-on-the-Colgate” from January-April of 1965, then off to Region I of the 113th MI Group in Chicago where I worked as an agent until 1967. I’d like to hear from anyone from that era as I’m writing a book on the stateside role of the 113th MI during the riots of 1967.

    Comment by Craig Anderson — March 24, 2005 @ 12:11 am

  26. -Looking for anyone who may have known my father-in-law, Robert Andrew (Bob) Balog. He was at Fort Holabird in late 1970. Thanks!

    Comment by Leslie Balog — April 15, 2005 @ 12:59 pm

  27. Anybody attend image interpretation school in 1968 and later assigned to the 45th Spt. Co. or CICV in Vietnam? All I can remember is the Arbys roast beef joint outside the front gate.

    Comment by David Driscoll — May 2, 2005 @ 5:40 pm

  28. I have almost the same memory and perspective as you did from back in 1968. I completed Basic at Ft Dix in June and took the bus trip to Balitmore like you. However, I was to become a 96B20 (intelligence analyst)I went through the same confusing reorientation interactiong with people other than Drill Sargents. After arriving at Ft Holibird and finding out that I could get home to Massachusetts every weekend of the summer by taking the bus to Newark Airport and a short hop to Logan I was elated. Alas by October 0f 1968 I was headed overseas where the odessey continued.

    Comment by Ted Williams — May 3, 2005 @ 12:09 pm

  29. Father spent career in CIC, and retired from Holabird in ’61. His file is as thin as a recruits after 23 years of assignement.

    Comment by rinehart — May 3, 2005 @ 12:47 pm

  30. I too have fond memories of the Bird and the aroma of Colgate Creek. I was there in 1963, then to Bragg, then Korea, then Viet Nam, where after about 6 months I reunited with many of my friends from Bragg (but they came to me).

    Back then, the really nice thing about our line of business was there was hardly any where you were assigned that you didn’t find at least one person you knew. Baker, French, Martin, Coogar?

    Comment by Paul D. Melton — May 3, 2005 @ 6:32 pm

  31. David Driscoll, the beef place outside the main gate was Harleys. They were famous for the Harley Burger, it was beef patties smotherd in onions. The other corner across from the main gate was the Holabird Inn. I spent many a night there for three years, 1965-1968, then stumbled to Harleys for a Harley Burger Sub.

    Comment by bill leach — May 3, 2005 @ 10:48 pm

  32. USAINTS 67-T-5 and 68-TA-1 96D2T RVN 1968-69 1st MIB(ARS) HHC at 121 Chi Lang St. in Gia Dinh/Saigon and 45th MID(ARS) later re-named Det. E at Hue/Phu Bai. Back to USAINTS in ’69-’70 as instructor and as Tac. NCO for the advanced II and NCO course. Spent many an evening at the Holabird Inn where they made very good cheeseburger subs. and at the Greek place a block or so on down Holabird Ave. Anyone remember Lts. Fitch and Frick? Better known to us as Frick ‘n Frack.

    Comment by John Nichols — May 14, 2005 @ 12:27 am

  33. I arrived at the “Bird” just ahead of a 100 year snowstorm in January of 66. I came from sunny California and suffered the same experience about where Holabird was, at the airport. Finally a guy from Arizona approached me and offered to share a cab as he was going to Holabird as well. The first few months at the “Bird” were an experience to say the least. At that point the place was overbooked. The barracks were stuffed with four times the personnel they were designed to handle. The gym was filled with bunks stacked 3 high. Every available space was used for housing. Then school started, in double shifts. My class went from 0600 to 1200, with another right behind us. I was one of those clerks with a top secret clearance, a 97D20 I believe. After school was done I got assigned to Holabird. Permanent Party there was a good deal, except for one thing, the first sergeant…….aka: The Tank. He would roust late sleepers for police call on the weekends. My cube-mate and I bailed off the second story balcony once to avoid him. I worked at the 1-2-3 club to make some extra $$$ and became kinda popular for being able to pour the tallest beers, a reputation that followed me all the way to Nam. Part of my time at Holabird was about as Un-military as one could imagine, but I for one, would not have changed a thing. Does anyone know of any posted pics of Holabird in the 60’s??

    Comment by Ray Bosnich — May 25, 2005 @ 10:38 am

  34. I arrived at Holabird from Fort Lewis in late Sept. of 66 and did the image interpretation course. It was culture shock, Holabird was great and I too remember the old Holabird Inn. Baltimore or “Balmer” as the locals called it was a fun place. All of us from our class shipped out for TIFF training at Ft. Myers and then on to Bragg and the 15th MI. I transferred over to the 14th MI and worked in supply for CONTIC until I was sent to Vietnam and the 73rd Aviation Company in Vung Tau.

    Comment by Jim Shoop — May 25, 2005 @ 12:25 pm

  35. I grew up in Dundalk and lived just outside the Ft. My first job, in 1959, was at the Officers Club doing janitorial work and helping set up many functions and Friday Night Happy Hours. I met many of the army brats living there and use to hang out at the pool next to the Officers Club and then they built a new pool up on the hill by the old tank track and ball fields. Use to walk through Cummings Apartments to get to work. It would be nice to connect with any kids who grew up there in the late 50’s.

    Comment by Gary Clelan — June 6, 2005 @ 10:54 pm

  36. I arrived at Ft. Holabird in Sept. of 1967 after basic training at Ft. Campbell Kentucky. Even before I started my Area Studies training–actually the first night I was there–a couple of us newbies headed downtown to the notorious “Block.” Didn’t even change out of our uniforms. Joined up with the 6th Batallion, Special Ops, of the 525 MI Group in Saigon after graduation from USAINTS. Later, went back to the Bird as an instructor in the Area Studies Practical Applications Dept. Lots of drunken nights at the Holabird Inn and the Keystone.

    Comment by D. Morin — June 28, 2005 @ 9:13 pm

  37. I wanted to add that last Sept. I visited Baltimore for the first time since leaving Ft. Holabird in 1970. Stayed at the Sheraton near the Inner Harbor but took a taxi to the old Ft. Holabird site which is now an industrial park. The buildings where the Holabird Inn and the Keystone are still there though appeared closed. Anybody remember Squire’s Italian restaurant near the corner of Holabird and Dundalk? Still there and greatly enlarged. Other than that, the surrounding neighborhood seemed to have gone down hill considerably from 1970. I’m sure the Army installation provided a lot of money to the area. There really is nothing left of the old Ft. Holabird in the industrial park that I could see. Overall, I had a ball at the place and surrounding area when stationed there.

    Comment by D. Morin — June 29, 2005 @ 8:38 pm

  38. Eurika! A Fort Holibird site. I did two training at Fort Holibird. 97D20 MI coordinater and 97B40 Counter Intelligence Agent In 69 and 71. Have never met anyone else from Holibird since then. Lived in the WAC shack so know about the odor or Colgate Creek. Worked at H&H company as a Coordinator. Got sent to Saint Louis Mo to the DODNAC center as an Agent.

    Comment by Kathleen Stevens — July 5, 2005 @ 4:13 pm

  39. Did 97B and then 97C training at ‘the Bird’, in the late ’60’s enjoyed your rememberances. I will tell you my own briefly. Upon arriving at Holibird after Basic, and having my first meal at the mess hall.

    Having my first meal in 8 weeks in leisure. I had baked halibut. Being from west Texas, I had never had it before, but due to the wonderful memories it brings back, it remains one of my favorite dishes

    Comment by A. Robertson — July 5, 2005 @ 6:19 pm

  40. I remember I enlisted in March 1966, I went to basic at Fort Knox, signed up for OCS and they sent me to Fort Ord, California for 11B10 training. Just before finishing 11B10, I found out that I was being sent to Fort Sill, OK for Artillery OCS and I would be a Forward Observer. Having a desire to have a chance in living, I dropped my orders for OCS and they sent me to Fort Holabird for 96B20, Intelligence Anaylst Training. We had a mixed class of Marines and Army. We had a Marine Master Sgt. It was good times. I remember going to a movie and us laughing at James Bond. I was sent to Fort Bragg, we called ourselves the lost 11. I was a desk analyst for Israel and Jordan, wrote these strategic analysis books. Gave out bagels and lox during the 67 war. Everyone went to Vietnam except me, I was sent to Seoul Korea, worked in the War Room 8th Army, I was the NCOIC. Very interesting work.

    Comment by Joel Storchan — July 6, 2005 @ 3:13 am

  41. I was at the “Bird” in 1968. It was a great experience except when the booze plants smoke stacks lit up. Anyone remember the name of the sandwich place across from the front gate?

    Comment by Chris Sawyer — July 6, 2005 @ 9:39 pm

  42. What the heck were the “booze plants smoke stacks?” I think the sub shop was called Harley’s or something like that. A much better sub shop was located near the corner of Holabird and Dundalk–think it was called the Village Subs. On the way back from the Keystone we would stop there for a hamburger sub, eat it on the way back, and then throw up on the railroad track. Doesn’t get much better than that.

    Comment by D. Morin — July 7, 2005 @ 9:14 pm

  43. It was Harley’s. They were famous for Harley_Burgers. Three hamburger patties in a sub roll, smothered in onions (I’m getting hungry)! Even better, was the holabird Inn on the other corner!!!(I’m getting thirsty)!

    Comment by bill — July 7, 2005 @ 11:02 pm

  44. Fort Holabird, the most unmilitary post in the Army. I went through the agent’s course (97B) in the fall of 1964. Mostly I went through lots of beer at the Holabird Inn. There was a girl who played piano there in the fall of 1964. Our class were regulars there and often joined in and sang with her. She was a sweetheart to tolerate a bunch of drunk agent wannabees. Wonder whatever happened to her?

    Went back to the ‘Bird in fall of 1966 for 97C training but was older, wiser and married.

    Mostly I remember the actors in the glassed-in classroom. And that damn bouncing bridge between the barracks and the classroom building. We used to march in step to see how high we could bounce it. Great times.

    Comment by Rogers — July 9, 2005 @ 8:22 am

  45. I remember the interminable time spent in casual company in 1968 and the “ole Sarge” who doled out the work assignments. I caught a good one as a driver until my 97C class started in July. Many good memories inspite of the rather alarming odor wafting from Colgate creek. As I recall, “Hey Jude” covered the airways.

    Comment by Gary halgunseth — July 13, 2005 @ 6:39 pm

  46. Graduated from the I.I. Course (I still have my diploma), 14 Feb-67 signed by Col.Richard S. Smith, Commandant and Major James Hess. Lucked out and went to SETAF Aviation Co. in Italy, not before getting stuck in casual company. (guys waiting for their class to begin and other waiting to ship out) they line you up in the A.M. and give out B.S. duties for the day. After

    two days of not calling my name – I walked around the Fort all day, till the EM club opened.

    They did things 1st class at the ‘bird’ I still have a formal Invitation for the 1966 Thanksgiving Day Dinner.

    “Consolidated Mess 136″, with a message from Col. Smith on one side and the menu on the other.

    They even took the class to Aberdeen Proving Ground for a day, and sent us to Ft. Myer so we

    could tour the Pentagon. What other Post hands out ‘Day Trips”?.

    Great Fort, Great bunch of guys.

    Comment by Steve Sisco — July 15, 2005 @ 9:50 am

  47. Great to read the rememberances here. I was a 96D2T II and I showed up in Jan.1969. My welcome experience was very similar, the CQ sent me down to Casual Company (I think this is where John Dean served his Watergate Sentence)and the first guy I met was Paul Benoit. He asked me what my school was and when I told him I was an II he said,”You’re going ta Nam, all the 96 Deltas do…”. I had just come off Christmas leave and my orders had me reporting on 12/31 which I recall was a Friday night. The CQ told me to get lost until Monday if I wanted to, but I didn’t have the money to go back home to Connecticut so I just hung out. I think I was in Casual for about a week and then we were assigned to a school. We were the PM class which ran from noon to 6PM. That was great because we didn’t have to get up until 9:00AM. I really liked my time at the Bird and I was hoping that I could get back there after I did my time in Nam (1st Mibars Det B in Danang 5/15/69-4/15-70)but no such luck, I went to the 66th MI Group in Munich (that is a whole other talk show). Benoit and I were assigned to Det B as “brothers” but he was killed by a Marine who was stealing his jeep about half way through our tour.

    Our Bay in Building 36, as I recall, was a small one that looked out at the Railroad tracks that ran through the post. On Friday nights we would watch as the new guys would arrive by bus from Dix and Basic. We got the idea that they needed some discipline so I dressed up as a Drill Corporal, I had a Smokey Bear hat and I was an acting jack squad leader so I would go down and meet the bus and dole out the standard ration of harassment that these poor souls were all expecting. I would bark at them trying to scare them into thinking that Basic was a picnic compared to what they were in store for at the Bird! Because they were all expecting this very treatment they were only too obliging. I don’t know why I didn’t get punched out when they saw me around post in the weeks following when they realized how civilized the Holabird experience was.

    Remember the Friday night cattle shows at the 123 club? My memory is very dim from those days but I remember going to them and watching some of my classmates getting drunk and dancing with girls they would never approach under any other circumstances. Dancing to “Crimson and Clover” by Tommy James and the Shondells God it was pretty lame.

    I really had a good time, made great friends, and learned a lot there and then when we graduated from II school they sent us over to Ft. McNair for a week’s TDY at the Behavior Research Lab in DC. We were asked to read out photos in the AM and then we were out on the town during Cherry Blossom time from noon on. It was a nice way to leave for Nam.

    Comment by magaremko@comcast.net — July 15, 2005 @ 9:05 pm

  48. Gosh…Holabird. Certainly remember dinners at Hausner’s and evenings at the Acropolis. I went through the 9668 course in 1963/1964 and from there on to the 502nd in ROK. Crossing the Colgate on the way to lunch…what a way to kill an appetite. For a number of summers in the late 1960’s and into the the very early 1970’s I took summer vacations at Ft. Holabird…2 to 4 week stints as part of the residency portion of the Carrer Course one does as a reservist. Colonel Sheldon the foreign area intellignece school man at Holabird when I was there and my Bn.CO in ROK. Fun times.

    Comment by E. Herrick — July 21, 2005 @ 1:37 pm


    Comment by RICHARD A. PROSS — July 27, 2005 @ 2:12 pm

  50. Arrived at Ft. Holibird September 1966 after basic in Ft. Lenordwood, Missori. Original orders were for advanced training as a Battle Order Specialist (trained in viewing photos with the magnifying glass on a small stand above photos taken from the air). One cool fall morning we were lined up during morning muster, they called out names. 13 of us lucky devils were called out. We were advised that we were going to get some additional advanced training, another 13 weeks “Prisoner of War Interrogator.” Note the number 13? This was a guaranteed trip to Nam. My best memory of Holibird was the weekends, usually Friday or Saturday night, about 1:30-2:00 AM some guy would go to Harleys and bring back one of their famous sandwiches. The smell would wake up everyone in the barricks and off we would all go and get our own. Seemed to be a weekend tradition. I was with the 9th Division Military Intelligence unit in the Mekong Delta. Finished my last time at Ft. Bragg at the new training school set up there to train replacements in 1968.

    Comment by Richard Goniu — July 28, 2005 @ 12:23 am

  51. I was in the agent class fall of 1963, then to the 108th in New England. After mostly doorbell ringing, promoted to civilian. After myriad of adventures, moved back to teach college (and write my book—go to dailybard.com) and joined MIANE, the local CIC old farts association, which meets monthly, and even gave a presentation ot two. Plan to visit Baltimore in October when in DC for the AFIO meeting.

    Comment by Philip Madell — July 29, 2005 @ 5:41 pm

  52. I am writing a book on the CHUSA activities in the late ’60’s. Any of you who were involved in CHUSA in those days, I would really appreciate hearing from you. You will of course be well cited. Thanks.


    Comment by Alan Robertson — August 2, 2005 @ 1:47 am

  53. I too was struck by the relaxed atmosphere of Holabird immediately upon arriving in July of 69. The group that accompanied me and I had just finished basic at Fort Ord. After traveling all day we arrived sometime after midnight on a Sunday morning and were told to show up for classes on Monday. I remember the guy who checked us in saying that we weren’t going to believe how different our treatment would be at Holabird compared to the treatment we had been subjected to in basic. I was skeptical at first, but by Monday morning I knew what he was talking about. It was almost like being in college again.

    Near the end of my 96B Intelligence Analyst training several classmates and I were selected against our wishes (I had orders for Germany)for the first 96B NCO Academy because they could not get enough volunteers to fill the class. I seem to recall there were only a handful of applicants. The Major in charge of the program assumed that there would be such an overwhelming response to participate that he had prepared to interview candidates. There was not, and we were all required to interview. It turned out to be an absurd situation as it became a “reverse” interview, with the interviewees doing their best to present themselves as unqualified or emphatically resistant to being selected. I guess my orders to Germany were a convincing argument against my selection, however two of those who had been selected had their top secret clearances come through and I was chosen to replace one of them. I completed the course and ended up as a much resented “shake and bake” E5 with the 4th MI Co of the 4th Infantry Div. in Vietnam.

    Other memories of Holabird: the old gymnasium and handball court; the infamous “Block” of downtown Baltimore; great polish sausage sandwich served in the E4 and above(?)Club.

    Comment by Mike Luckey — August 5, 2005 @ 10:24 pm

  54. Best 6 months of my life, followed by the worst year(Nam)in the 45thMI CICV at Ton Son Nut. I was there mid 65 to early 66. Spent weekdays with the nurse students at the hospital then weekends back in the bronx. Anyone at the compound at Long Bin.

    Comment by Bob Marold — August 17, 2005 @ 3:44 pm

  55. Wow…not even sure how I stumbled in here but it’s great! I arrived at Holabird in March or April(?) of 1966 for 96 Delta training. I believe we were the first TIFF qualified class. Fond memories of soft-shell crab subs from the place down the street, and hazy memories of puking my guts out somewhere near the creek after a night at the 123 club. I recall seeing the movie “the Ipcress File” at the post theater and wishing I had signed up for Agent School instead.

    One Marine in our class had a wicked habit of waiting ‘till a payday Saturday night and covering the urinals with Saran-Wrap and taping a Playboy pinup at eye level. Around midnight when the guys came staggering in to take a leak before crashing, their attention was on the pinup, not where they were pissing….you’d hear a rata-tat-tat splashing sound and then a loud SON-OF-A-BITCH!!! from the latrine.

    After training at the ‘Bird, I was sent to the 15th MI Bn at Ft. Bragg…God, what a pit compared to Holabird. The 15th MI was basically a holding tank for our MOS and all we had was sh*t duty like shoveling coal and painting barracks. Got so bad that I asked to be assigned to a unit in Nam, but then some Black Suits from the Pentagon showed up at morning formation and asked for five 96D volunteers for an unspecified TS project and my hand shot up….anything would be better than Bragg. Got lucky and spent the next two years at Redstone Arsenal, R&D Directorate, working on a real-time aerial recon project that never got off the ground.

    Thanks for the site & the memories!

    Comment by John Wallis — August 21, 2005 @ 2:55 pm

  56. Accidentally stepped into this site. Thanks for setting up.

    Started at Ft Benning 2 days after college graduation. From Benning I caught an allnight train through the North Ga Mountain and Appalacians…great ride and finally slept until sunrise and stopped at Baltimore. After basic training did not know what to expect…knew no one there either and also remember lugging that ugly green duffle on a Baltimore city bus to Ft Holabird. Man what memories…vagly remember the Harley restaurant and barely remember a swinging bridge…but strongly remember the building where the Jeep (GP) was designed. Forgot the name of the stinky creek but after hearing Colgate Creek it brought back memories.

    In my case I was stationed in barracks with a bunch of routy Green Berets. We had a mystery man there that in the middle of the night (after heavy drinking)would rest his forehead on the side of a top bunk and take a leak on the person the bottom bunk…when the person on the bottom bunk screamed or yelled the Green Beret would run away…after 3 or 4 weeks of this they finally caught the guy who was having a drinking and sleep walking disorder but knew he was guilty when the yells woke him up…

    Never forget watching Boog Powell (first baseman for the Baltimore Orioles)hit one in to the second level seats. At 21 yrs old my first major league baseball game.

    After a real education at Ft Holabird I spend 1 day leaning how to pick locks at the Pentagon. I was there when we landed on the MOON and as a country boy from Georgia that had never left my state except for Florida on vacations, I decided to do something special on the day of the landing on the Moon. Went to the DC to the Aerospace Museum to sit underneath the Wright Brothers Plan…as I waited for the Lunar Landing, sitting directly underneath the Wright Brothers plan, a secret service agent walked up and ask politely if I would mind giving up my seat. I did and seconds later the Vice President Spiro Agnew and Astronaut Frank Borman took my seat (couch) and watched the landing on the Moon as I stood in the background on national television. My 15 minutes of fame.

    After Ft Holabird I was bound for Fort Shafter, Honolulu Hawaii. What a great 1 and 1/2 year tour of duty. The military intelligence technology at Ft Shafter still today amazes me. Finally my last year was spent at Binh Wah (spelling?) at Trac III Headquarters.

    Went back to Baltimore to find Ft Holabird about 5 years ago, found Dundalk, and from a friend later found Ft Holabird was shut down in 1973 and sold to a developer. Condo’s and or apartments there.

    Would love to hear from Dennis Torrey (MN), Roseboro (NC) or anyone else at Ft Holabird. Most people at Ft Shafter in Hawaii were from Ft. Holabird.

    Ed Haley


    Comment by Eddie Haley — August 24, 2005 @ 8:33 pm

  57. Enjoyed reading all the comments. Brought back alot of memories. Was at Ft. Holabird from October 1966 – April 1967. Then to Vietnam for the next 31 months.

    Comment by Jeff Reif — August 26, 2005 @ 2:02 am

  58. Enjoyed the trip down memory lane. Was at Holibird High from Sept. 64 to Nov. 64 96B class.

    From there to Ft. Eustis to a Transportation Intel. Det. and then MACV. The 123 club, the subs, and friday beer parties behind the barracks, all great memories.

    Comment by Ed Speakman — September 1, 2005 @ 9:27 am

  59. After language school (Vietnamese) at DLI – El Paso, I was at Holabird for Combat Intelligence training in late 1970. In January 1971, I was assigned to the Combined Intelligence Center, Viet Nam (CICV).

    Comment by Ed McCoin — September 21, 2005 @ 1:00 am

  60. Was stationed at Holibird from ’64 thry ’67 as S/A and Instructor on the FTX Committee. Anyone from that era and duty, please contact me.

    Comment by Bob Scharbert — September 27, 2005 @ 8:52 pm

  61. I came upon this by accident! I was stationed at USAINTS from July 18 1969 to September 14 1969 (approx).

    I was a 96B20 and was a member of the WAC. I have been trying to find Cheryl Muto — she was stationed there also — would love to talk to her.

    Yes, I remember the Colgate — smelled like apricot pits (cyanide???).

    After Holabird I was stationed at the Presidio of San Francisco, another abandoned post.

    This was fun. Enjoyed reading it.

    Comment by Brenda Cates Kilby — September 28, 2005 @ 1:12 pm

  62. Brenda: I spoke with Cheryl Muto (Clyde) last week. She lives in Wisconsin and I bet would love to talk to you.

    Comment by kathleen Stevens — October 15, 2005 @ 1:00 pm

  63. This is absolutely wonderful!!! Only someone who knew her well would remember her as “Clyde!”

    Would also like to know whatever happened to Kathy Irish, my roomate at Holabird.

    And if anybody knows whatever happened to Rose, somebody buy her a drink!!!

    Comment by Brenda Cates Kilby — October 16, 2005 @ 8:46 pm

  64. I knew a Rose, at Holibird, but can not think of her last name. The one I knew was gay, got outed, so married a young Marine she had just met, to counter the “gay” charge, and was given an honorable discharge all within a 7 day time frame. The young Marine sat in the Wac Shack charge of quarters room for a long time waiting for her, before he finally gave up. As far as I know he never saw Rose again, and neither did any of the rest of us. Rose did like to Party!

    Comment by Kathleen Stevens — October 26, 2005 @ 8:53 pm

  65. Entered Army through Ft Holabird Rep Station in Mar 65. Came back to 97B course after Basic at Ft. Jackson. Was deverted to 97D after waiting 8 wks. Classes held above 123 Club, HOT. Finished course, went to Art OCS (Dec 66)and then assigned to NSA, Came back and took the 666 course, went to VN and came back to MI Advance Course at Holabird (70). A lot of good times. DAME Course, Photo Course, The covert truck that broke down in the city and hauled back to Post with Army Wrecker. Taking covert pictures of diners in the revolving resturant, catching the 668 trying to infiltrate into Philadelphia. Yes,those were the days.

    Comment by John Major — November 1, 2005 @ 2:56 pm

  66. I went to the Holabird School for Wayward Boys in 1962 in the Agents course. Most amazing group of instructors and perm party. I had a couple of languages and wound up living in the proverbial “Interesting Times”.

    When I wound up active duty my security debriefing took 2 1/2 hours while they reminded me of all the things I was supposed to forget. Civilian clothes and very little chicken exhaust.

    Comment by Michael Woodill — November 1, 2005 @ 10:47 pm

  67. Did basic training at Ft Dix August 1961 ( E Company under Lt Wiggins with Sgt Turner )Then by bus to Ft. Holabird for the agents course with a mixed bag of “troopers”. Remember typing with “click along with Mrs. Clicka” and running around tunnels with empty .38 2″ revolvers.
    When taught background investigations we were instructed to cover LIDMAC, i.e., loyalty, integrety, ?, morals, ? and character. For the life of me I can not remember the D and A. Does anyone remember? Lived in Towson at the time so commuted. Ended up in the reserves witht he 224th MI detachment in Willow Grove, PA. Summer camps at Ft. Meade and Camp Drum.

    Comment by Dan Egan — December 6, 2005 @ 9:55 am

  68. The “D” in LIDMAC stood for DISCRETION!

    Comment by Bill Leach — December 6, 2005 @ 10:12 pm

  69. Dan: I remember “Ma Clicka”. She could teach anyone to type, even me, allthough I insisted it was against my religion! She held a world record as the fastest typist! I can’t remember D&A infact I had forgotton LIDMAC all together. But I remember FNU LNU and A thru F 1 thru 5 clasification system for informants. I could still do back asthmiths if I had to, but I still would not like it.

    Comment by Kathleen Stevens — December 7, 2005 @ 10:46 pm

  70. Thanks Bill for the Discretion part of the puzzle. Now for the A! And Kathlen, I forgot to mention FNU LNU because I never forgot it. For those who might have forgotten, it stood for “first name unknow”, “last name unknown”. And I might have used Clicka instead of Klicka. Not sure which is correct. And they were indeed good days. Come on someone with the missing “A”. I suppose the compass/map course has been replaced with the GPS/map course. The photography course lead to a life long hobby.

    Comment by Dan Egan — December 10, 2005 @ 10:25 pm

  71. Dan, it just stands for “and”. Morals and Courage. Type in LIDMAC on google and you will find quite a bit of INFO.

    Comment by bill — December 12, 2005 @ 10:08 pm

  72. Bill. Thanks, now I can rest.

    Comment by Dan Egan — December 19, 2005 @ 9:59 am

  73. Came to Holabird in 1964 (June or July) for the Interrogator course after half a year as a straight leg in the 5th Inf Div at Ft Carson, a year in Nha Trang and Kontum, and a year learning Russian at the Presidio of Monterey. Ended up in a Border Resident Office of the 511th MI Co in Germany which turned out to be a dream assignment (about 100 miles from the headquarters, civilian clothing allowance, off-post offices and quarters, etc., etc.) Holabird was fun, but I never did adjust to the summer “aroma.” Kept in touch with two classmates for many years, but have long since lost contact. Enjoyed this site immensely. Thanks!

    Comment by Jack — January 25, 2006 @ 9:45 pm

  74. This was fun reading everyone’s memories of Ft. Holabird. Took a similar bus trip in Dec. 1968 from Ft. Dix, arriving in Baltimore after midnight, and no one in Baltimore knew where Holabird was. The cabbie claimed he didn’t know where it was and stiffed me for a $10 ride after he finally “found” the place. Who could forget the Holabird Inn (I had forgotten all about those great cheeseburger subs). The folks who ran the place were great people. I’ll never forget the jukebox there which showed pics of scantilly clad women as the records played (was new to me being from Maine!). Was in the 97C course from March 69 thru July 69 (Agent Handler course). So many of us there we had to hang around from December to March waiting for a class to open up. My kids today still ask me what it was like to be a “spy.” Went from there to DLIWC in Monterey, CA for Vietnamese language school for a year and then for a year in MI stationed at Bien Hoa Army Base in RVN.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — January 31, 2006 @ 4:35 pm

  75. Last communication back aways(2004). Hope I can answer some of your questions from at least the mid-1950’s. The eatery outside the main gate was the Liberty at that time. The infamous Keystone was up the street. Squires up and across and the sub-place, whose name I can’t recall, on the corner. The Headquarters company commander was a Captain Thomas Evans and his exec a Cpt. Ansumea(?). The 50’s where a little more (not much though) Army than what came later and permanent staff experienced a little more b.s than trainees but nothing compared to Fort elsewheres. The interesting part of Holabird is the high level of education of our mostly draftee and enlistee privates and specialists(lawyers, ma’s, ph.d.’s, etc). I was assigned to training aids (whatever in the hell that was). Every six months they trucked us out to Meade to requalify on some M1’s they had somewhere. This shot our Saturday (oh what suffering and bitching that caused) We lived in bays in the big bldg in back of Furlow field. We were truly a company of smart-asses, cynics, misfits and general malcontents but I am sure we all were thankfull we didn,t really have to play soldier despite all our bitching. We had two generals (one at a time) a Boniface Campbell(sounds civil war) and then a Richard Gaither (both Brigidiers). Most Fridays at about 4:30 we marched in review behind our awful band who seemed to know one song, Colonel Boggies(?) March.
    Class A, no rifles. KP and guard occasionally (Ml’s without ammunition, they didn,t trust us). Many more memories and details but I don’t want to bore you more than I have.aplpreciated hearing from anyone from the 50’s and thanks for your site.

    Comment by manfred(manny)adler — March 1, 2006 @ 4:48 pm

  76. Jim.
    Two questions: How do I get to your site without going through google and have you changed your e-mail address (the old one is returned)?

    Comment by Manny — March 8, 2006 @ 10:59 am

  77. Maude Klecka, FNU LNU, A-F 1-5, LIDMAC. Just like old times. I was in Klecka’s last class, before her retirement, hers and the Underwoods! Did a stint at Holabird to become a CI Agent in ’70, with interrogator for good measure. Then off to the 902nd, 113th and finally CICV. Wasn’t the sub place named something like Harley’s? What was the name of the bar right outside the main gate? Holabird Inn? Who else was DAME & DASE trained? Some talents are never lost! 97B40A

    Comment by Lon Schank — March 14, 2006 @ 8:05 am

  78. I was with Dick Goniu’s class in Sep 66…see his post above…I had a candy apple red 1969 Olds Super 88 convertible since I was from Philly, not too far from Balmer. Took a photo of my car under “Big John’s Place”, made my car look about 1/2 scale!

    I dated a gal from Northern Pakway area who was a sophomore at Eastern HS for a long time, she sent me DJ while in Nam. Met up with her again last year in DC…glad I didn’t marry her!

    My favorite eatery was the Gino’s with KFC on the road to Sparrow’s Point…best burgers in the world! Stopped there every Sunday night on the way in from Philly.

    Went to DLI Viet at Biggs Fld, then to 525th then to Co A 519th MI Bn, worked at CMIC.

    I have stayed in touch with a half-dozen or so of the guys in the 96B & 96C classes in the fall of 1966. Some guys are famous (?) such as Sandy Chadwick who is a radio reporter for NPR out in CA and Mike Landrum who as an actor, starred in a soap opera called “How To Survive a Marriage” in the 70s or 80s as well as numerous TV commercials (Horizon coffee, also some antacid…maybe Riopan?). Also one guy, who shall remain nameless at this time, ended up as a big shot with the Company. He is retired now.

    If someone were to e-mail me I would be happy to discuss a reunion of sorts we are planning for 2007, which is approx 40, yes forty yeas ago!!!

    Comment by Joseph Lachowiec — March 23, 2006 @ 4:36 pm

  79. Your site brought back great memories. I was at Holabird from March thru June 1967, in 97D class. I remember that 33 of the 34 students in our class went to Vietnam together! I had the same shock when I arrived at Holabird. Got there on a Saturday night and got up at 5am Sunday morning assuming it was the same routine as boot camp. A drunk private came stumbling in the barracks and told me to go back to bed. It was a great time!!! Thanks for the memories!

    Comment by Ron Seacrist — March 24, 2006 @ 3:47 pm

  80. Good stuff. I was there both as an inmate and a keeper from about April 66 to Jan 69.
    Would like to hear from anyone who was in DODNACC or USAINTC during that period. I served
    as BG Blakefields driver and gofer for about a year. Note to Craig Anderson: I was there
    in Chicago during both riots (TDY) and would like to contribute. I can be reached at:

    SP5 Ronald Wayne Griffith, USAINTC
    “first member of my family to serve in the Yankee army since reconstruction”

    Comment by Wayne Griffith — May 15, 2006 @ 3:24 pm

  81. Testing……1, 2, 3.

    Comment by Jim — August 29, 2006 @ 7:06 pm

  82. NOTE: Manny (Manfred) Adler has posted comments here bofore (see: 2/12/04, 3/1/06, and 3/8/06), but for reasons I cannot figure out yet, he is unable to leave a comment here.

    Anyway, he is interested in knowing about any reunions and such. In addition, if any of you can help figure out why he is having trouble commenting here (I don’t think my spam filters are flagging them), please try to help him.

    His e-mail address is Ma1936@aol.com

    Jim – Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — September 2, 2006 @ 12:40 pm

  83. Jim:

    Thanks and let’s see if this shows up.

    Comment by Manny Adler — September 8, 2006 @ 2:36 pm

  84. Arrived Jan.6,1966 after basic,I also was amazed at how Holibird was run. Was there from Jan till Apirl 66. I went through the 96B20 & 96C20. Started snowing the 6 of January. Did not see ground till some time around of March. Remember bus loads of nursing students on Friday night for Dances. Went to Ft.Bragg and from there to Vietnam with the 519th BN. Served there from July 66 till July 67. Spec5 Donald R. Stacks

    Comment by Donald Stacks — September 16, 2006 @ 11:47 pm

  85. Boy, Sawyer sure turned around from the jerk to a seemingly likable guy. And I think him and Kate will be having a baby soon :).

    Comment by mr skin — October 7, 2006 @ 2:21 pm

  86. Someone said that this post was not accepting comments. Just wanted to check.

    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — December 19, 2006 @ 11:06 am

  87. Checking again to make sure the comments are working.

    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — March 27, 2007 @ 7:57 pm

  88. Jim,

    Testing if this one works.

    Comment by manny — March 31, 2007 @ 6:25 pm

  89. Jim,

    Thanks and yes it works. Manny

    Comment by manny — March 31, 2007 @ 6:29 pm

  90. Does anybody have pictures of Ft Holabird? Could you post them on line or send them to me in an e-mail? Thanks, Bill

    Comment by bill leach — April 28, 2007 @ 12:54 am

  91. Bill,

    Perhaps this may help you in your quest.The U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command (if this is indeed still the official designation) at Fort Belvior, Virginia (assuming it is still located there) published a book back in 1993 titled THE MILITARY INTELLIGENCE STORY: A PHOTOGRAPHIC HISTORY. This book contains a few photos of Ft. Holabird (pages 24 and 46).
    this source may know of some other archival materials. If you should find any I suspect myself and others would apreciate that information. Best of luck in your search.

    Comment by manny — April 29, 2007 @ 11:03 am

  92. Manny, thanks for the info. I just found an aerial photo from the 60s. (it must be before 1965 because I can’t see the swimming pool that was there when I was in 1965-1968). You can see it at:


    Thanks again and I will keep you posted.

    Comment by Bill — May 27, 2007 @ 8:31 pm

  93. After leaving basic training at Ft. Knox in August 1968 I boarded a flight from Louisville, Ky. to Baltimore, Md. and Ft. Holabird. On arrival the smell of Colgate creek and the humid August heat of Maryland are still branded into my memory.

    I was about to begin my training as a 96b20, intelligent analyst or so I thought. It seemed I had just missed the start of a class; another class would not begin for almost a month. So, it was work details and the infamous weekly KP duty.

    Once school began life got better, passing class was in the forefront of everyone’s mind. Some passed, others did not.

    Once school was over all graduates except one received orders to Vietnam, “the one” received orders for Hawaii.

    Vietnam orientation began on Saturdays in the movie theater, followed with combat training at Ft. George Meade.

    From August 68 to late Nov. 68, life at Holabird was liveable. It was an experience of learning and many practical jokes with shave cream, shoe polish, tooth paste, short sheeted bunks; to wet bedding in the cold Baltimore fall mornings.

    An enjoyable site to relive old memories – no regrets.

    Comment by Gregory M. Virginia — June 3, 2007 @ 12:04 pm

  94. Bill:

    The swimming pool if my memory is still relatively intact was there in the mid 50’s. It was in the vicinity of the officer’s club and off limits to peons. I recall a chain link fence and sqeals of children and teen laughter but that is as close as we ever got. It was on the way to the dental clinic (speaking of ambivalence).

    Comment by manny — June 6, 2007 @ 5:16 pm

  95. Manny, the pool I am talking about would be all the way to the left in the picture. There also was a bowling alley next to the pool and that is not in the picture either.(did you see the picture)? I do remember the pool at the Officers club.
    I just noticed the date of your last comment, June 6th. That is the date I left Ft Holabird for the last time, June 6, 1968.

    Comment by bill — June 13, 2007 @ 10:51 am

  96. Bill,
    Do not remember an elisted pool or bowling alley and did not take the photo interpretation course though ran many a thermofax overlay (does this date me or what?) during night shift at training aides (or is it aids, the disease or the assistants?). oh well! I find this site fascinating since it is the first cantact in lo these many years. I guesss we did exist.

    Comment by manny — June 13, 2007 @ 7:20 pm

  97. Bill,
    I just noticed the June 6th comment. D-day, what a coincidence. Manny

    Comment by manny — June 13, 2007 @ 7:21 pm

  98. June 6th 1968 is also the day RFK died.

    Comment by bill — June 13, 2007 @ 8:17 pm

  99. Bill,

    What a coincidence!

    Comment by manny — June 14, 2007 @ 5:41 pm

  100. I was there Jan. 65 to July 65. Took the basic INTC course and then 9666. I was assiigned to HQ, Region I of the 113th in Chicago. Holabird was a country club after nine weeks at Ft. Benning and the training was outstanding. Anyone recall the field excercise at the old coastal artillery fort in Baltimore harbor.
    When I got theChicago, I scoped cases for three months and then went to the Fifth Army Field Office in Hyde Park. I was a door knocker for four m onths and then took over at SAC. I had two E-2’s, 2 DAC’s and an E-6. I have a vague recollection that one of the young guys was named Anderson but things are a little foggy after all these years. One of the DAC’s was named Lynch and knew where every street address in Chicago was w/o looking at a map. My E-6 was an old timer named George Choi and I wish I could tell him just how much I appreciate all he did for me. We did BI’s for the most part, but had several derogatory investigations and did security penetration efforts for the Nike sites along the lake front. It was good duty and I worked with some very bright and motivated guys. The Head of the region was Col. George Paddis.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — July 2, 2007 @ 3:13 pm

  101. Did anyone serve in the “old 109th CIC Detachment in C
    Cleveland, Ohio?

    Bill Yantis: The “old coastal attilery fort in Baltimore harbor” is a new on for me. The only one I recall is the Francis Scott Key one of “Star Bangled Banner” fame, never knew their was another.

    Comment by manny — July 7, 2007 @ 5:01 pm

  102. Really enjoyed reading all the comments above. However, was not a student at Holabird, but actually permanent party assigned to HHC-USAINTC (not intel “S”chool, but “C”enter) from 2/23/63 thru 9/3/65. Started out in pay records where I processed incoming students, both enlisted and officer for their pay vouchers. A special shout-out to Capt Rakov, M.D. who thanked me for my assistance by giving me a permanent profile so I didn’t have to to PT or KP for the rest of my duty time. After spending about 9 months in Pay Records, my section sgt. John Davis got PO’d with me for taking an extra day off after an extra-painful double extraction and told me to report to my CO after I got off quarters. The CO decided he needed an OJT cook in the consolidated mess, so he put me there where I lasted about a year as a glorified KP. Then, thanks to SP/5 Gary Doyle, the Co Morning Reports clerk, I was “paroled” into the orderly room to learn the MR job so I could replace Gary when he ETS’d. A real cushy job from 6am to 2pm. Of course, then we got a new First Shirt who thought I should work until 5pm just like everyone else (didn’t matter that I started 3 hours earlier than everyone else). That was George “Mr Clean” (cannot remember his last name). He had been the manager at the NCO Club and was very well liked in that position. After he became 1st Sgt, he did a 180, becoming a real jackass. After about 6 months of Mr. Clean, I was requested away from HHC staff to Troop Command to become a titless wac (clerk typist) under Col. Jerry Wimberly and S/Maj Floyd Sampson and, of course, Mrs Ortelt — the Col’s secretary (it seems as if SHE ran the office). While there I finally got my E-4 specialist bird (quite overdue). A lot of you students there in late 1964 and into 1965 may have come across me as the Troop Command clerk that assigned you to your daily assignments while you were waitiing for your classes to start. Those of you that were the non-bitchers got the plum assignments and those picked at the end of the round (the bitchers) got the worse assignments. Well, my 3 years came to an end on 9/3/65 and I left Holabird — but didn’t go too far as I had fallen in love with a “local girl” and Baltimore and stayed until 1980 when I moved back to my home state of Florida. Now, 27 years later, I am dreaming of one day soon returning to Baltimore — actually Dundalk where I plan to retire and live out my remaining years. It appears that Dundalk is experiencing a resurgence and regrowth. I, too, miss “Harleys”, “Squires” and the night club up the street where they had a live band nightly known as “The Punchanellos”. Seems as if Wednesday nights were 50c nite with all well drinks at 50c each. Boy, could you get a buzz for $5 back then.
    If any of you readers were there during ’63 to ’65 and remember your “casual duty assignments” waiting for your classes to start or were there as permenant party, get back with me at my email address of “tneuman@aaasouth.com”. I would love to hear from you.

    Comment by Tim Neuman — July 9, 2007 @ 3:59 pm

  103. Tim:

    Enjoyed your recollections, the first, I think, of someone who was permanent party. The “Bird” (a name we never used, only students left with that nickname for the place, was a very different place for transients and permanent “inmates.” We did the grunt work along with our specialties and bitched comensurately. You were just a bit after my time. The nightclub may have the Keystone or perhaps it had changed names by then?

    Comment by manny — July 11, 2007 @ 5:40 pm

  104. Wow, the memories. Just stumbled into this site. I graduated 97D20 at Holabird in January 1967. Do you remember doing the surveillance training in downtown Baltimore and the locals yelling out, “He went that way!” Then there was The Block. . .’nuf said. I went on to the Field Support Group in D.C. –civilian clothes, light cover, paid apartment, suburban office. Great duty. Then off to Vietnam. First MACV then levied to 5th SFGA. Almost 40 -FORTY – years ago.
    I came to this site as I’ve been trying to track down any more info about the 525th MI Group Villa that was overrun in Hue during TET. Anyone with any info please contact me. Thanks for this site and the memories.

    Comment by Greg Taylor — August 10, 2007 @ 1:34 am

  105. Manny of the 109th. We had a field problem involving “pacification” of a population after the Infantry had swept through. It was held at a coastal artillery fort, one of several that ringed harbors in major cities on the seacoast. The ammunition bunkers were very large and flooded. We were supposed to locate and identify contraband and secure intel from “civilians” played with fiendish delight by permanent party troops. Can’t recall the name of the place but it was not Ft. McHenry. If Craig Anderson checks back here (he had an entry a couple of years ago) give me a signal. I think you were one of my agents when I was SAC in Chicago. Of course, the mind does play tricks on one.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — September 1, 2007 @ 5:28 pm

  106. Bill Yantis:

    The 109th was the Cleveland,Ohio detachment. I was permanent party at Holabird. No idea where your “pacification” occured. Rings no bell. It might have been one of the Nike sites? Hope you hear from Craig.


    Comment by manny — September 5, 2007 @ 6:13 pm

  107. Drafted July 1968; basic Ft. Bliss; Holabird Oct.1968-Mar. 1970,with language classes (French and Vietnamese) at Meade.

    Comment by Michael B Lee — September 26, 2007 @ 3:53 pm

  108. I was stationed at Holabird the first time from May – Oct 1963 as a student in the Coordinator Course. Returned as permanent party in Dec 1966 and stayed until Dec 1968. I was assigned to the FTX Committee during that period. Comment #60, Bob Scharbert was there at the same time. FInished the 97B and Photo Course while assigned. Went on to Vietnam after that tour.

    Comment by F. Don Clifton — November 16, 2007 @ 5:04 pm

  109. Interesting piece on fort hunt and p.o. box 1142 in today’s local paper. May be of interest to some of you in the interrogation area.

    Comment by manny — January 11, 2008 @ 5:32 pm

  110. I came to Holabird from basic at Ft. Jackson…by train. My first week there is pretty foggy; all I remember is being sick as a dog from the flu or something. They moved me to “casual company” where I stayed for what must have been at least 3 months [September ’67 – January ’68]. What a trip! I recall the guys in charge were Walshak(sp?) and Ferenzak(sp?)…shades of Sgt. Bilko. After graduation from 96D2T (II), I think my whole class ended up in ‘Nam.

    Comment by JosephHill — February 25, 2008 @ 2:15 pm

  111. Someone asked about the “casual company”. Permanent party were assigned to Headquarters company but placed on details such as moppping until “cleared” for their permanent assignments. I ended up under a Corporal Weeks (a real gem of a “soldier type”) mopping floors, but only briefly due to the fact that nobody seemed to know that I was there for a week or so, so simply wandered the base and slept in empty barracks (some security). Did not really appreciate how unmilitary Holabird was. Really lucked out after Knox and Gordon.

    Comment by manny — March 2, 2008 @ 10:16 am

  112. Any one who spent any time at Fort HaHa will remember this place. It was the Holabird Inn, now it is the Travlers Lounge.


    Comment by bill — March 6, 2008 @ 11:13 pm

  113. Anyone still alive out there?

    Comment by manny — September 30, 2008 @ 11:43 am

  114. What a great site !!!!! I arrived at Holabird in Dec 1966 and started 96B class in Jan 67. Our class was half Army and Half Marines. Our senior NCO was a marine gunny and when he started yelling to clean the deck and whatever they called the walls we just stood there. The when he would try and march us to class we would refuse to break stride and would get the old bridge bouncing. The Brass finally gave up and split us from the Marines and SSG Skinner became our leader. A buddy of mine in basic at Ft Knox znd I were sent to Ft Ha Ha (I had forgot all about that) by bus and got there on a friday night. We had the same thing happen where he told us to come back on Monday. We asked if we could go home and he said yes. We got a cab to friendship airport and flew home to detroit. After completion of our course our entire class except for me and another guy was sent to Bragg for assignment. Kuzial and I were sent to Ft Ritchie Md. I was there for a few months and then sent to Ft Bliss for language school. I went to Nam in Dec 67 and was assigned to the 525th MI Gp. Since the thought I could speak Vietnamese they made me an Advisor and I was with Team 51 in Bac Lieu until dec 68. From there I went to Fr Bragg for 9 months until I discharged. Once again, what a great site to stumble upon. Welcome home-

    Comment by Bill Ballou — October 2, 2008 @ 11:30 am

  115. Bill Ballou,

    Marines at Holabird? In the mid 50’s perhaps an officer or two, but 50/50? That’s some IQ leap.


    Comment by manny — October 2, 2008 @ 5:12 pm

  116. Most of the marines were cpls & sgts and were LRP’s and had already been to Nam. It was quite an experience !!! They were OK with the Army privates like me.

    Comment by Bill Ballou — October 2, 2008 @ 7:37 pm

  117. Thank God, I thought this site was dead.

    Comment by bill — October 2, 2008 @ 11:54 pm

  118. I wasn’t worried about the site as much as the “posters”. Good to know other “Birders” are still checking in.


    Comment by manny — October 3, 2008 @ 4:09 pm

  119. If any of you were advisors in Vietnam the is a website and organization called Counterparts with posts from members of quite a few different teams. If you search “counterparts” you will see one called “counterparts frame page” ??? but that is the site. It is very interesting.

    Comment by Bill Ballou — October 4, 2008 @ 9:13 pm

  120. I arrived at Camp Holabird as an E-6 MP after 10 years in the real Army….Amazing Officers called me “Jim” Re-up got me into USAINTS teaching Map Reading to everyone; weapons ( 2″ 38cal to 97Bs , 45cal SMGs to 96s and was a Tac NCO for a short period when Officer Basic was conducted there….Attended 60-T-6 ( Imagery Interp ) and transferred to Air Recon as a Math Instructor till 62, then Korea, then Math Instr until 62,then Vietnam, then back as a math instructor until retirement as a CWO in 70. It is a real treat to read this site as it brings back many memories. A permanent Baltimorean, I have just a few obsevations to make.The field Artilley base at Baltimore Harbor was a WWI Coast Artillery base at Ft Howard.( where the harbor opens to Chesapeake Bay ) The Vietnam Village was located here. I worked with “Lillian ” Klecka and the band was led by Msg Anderson( membership got you out of all details )For permanent party EM membership in the ERF got those same rights ( But got you in every friday parade on Furlow Field ). Thanks loads for the memories>>>Jim.

    Comment by Jim Sprole — November 3, 2008 @ 12:48 pm

  121. Jim,

    Welcome to the site. Keep the memories coming.



    Comment by manny — November 4, 2008 @ 3:19 pm

  122. Jim:

    What exactly was the ERF?


    Comment by manny — November 10, 2008 @ 6:31 pm

  123. Bernie Thielen,

    To belatedly answer your 5/8/04 question: Not everyone stationed at Holabird need TS clearences. It all depended on one’s MOS, access to classified materials and so on. Most support personnel did not need clearence. There was a certain schizphrenia in operation not to rule out paranoia. Manny

    Comment by manny — February 19, 2009 @ 4:22 pm

  124. Thanks for the great site & memories. Hello to all who I served with at Holabird in early ’68 for 97D training.
    Went on to 525th MI Gp at the Ponderosa in Gia Dinh, RVN, then to the 113th MI Gp (civvies) in Detroit. No regrets & proud to have served with exceptional people.

    Comment by PHIL WISER — April 6, 2009 @ 2:13 am

  125. Great memories… I arrived at the bird on newyears day, 1968. OJ Simpson was scoring a touchdown in the RoseBowl, and that past spring we were teammates on the SC track team. I loved being sent from sunny California to the chill air of Dundalk and that odor of the creek! I was not sent directly to classes in the 97 B40 as I had to wait for my birthbay, two months later. So I was assigned to work in the basement of the school in the mean time. I remember a general who was demoted to a pfc mopping the floors until his retirement. That was cold. Mrs. Clicka was still working us to type and those retired agents working the skits. Of a class of about forty, we had about six marines, all senior to us just ourt of boot camps. Everyone received orders a week before finishing the class and only three of us were sent other than Vietnamese language training. Us three, Joe Bynum, an older ex peace corps worker, was sent to Burma, another name I forget was sent to the basement of the Pentagon to work for the Defense Secretary in the offices of the 902nd or the Duce as we called it. I was the lucky one and was sent back out to Los Angeles assigned to the All Army Track Team training out of Ft. MacArthur. We had six army team members make the 1968 Mexico City Olympic Team. I was not one of them and went to work the next month at the 115th MI Grp until moving on in life. The skills learned at the bird were the best. I did not get to DASE or DAME classes, those were for lifers and I never made that trip. We were yound agents and would best be used to infiltrate groups where our coungterparts in other federal agencies could not match our youth, so that is where we were put. Great times though. My old boss in MI is now retired and living in Washington state and I visit him yearly. I have done that since leaving the military in 1970. He saved me though and I owe him forever. Richard Cayford is his name. I had been recruited into MI after being noticed by a CIA officer working in the basement of the Doheny Library at USC in 1967. There was a HRAF (human relations area files) system there and all students working on anything there at the time had to sign in. Silly, how one can innocently be nabbed. Anyway, Holabird was a great landing for any young person at the time and it is no more. I have gone to visit the new school in Arizona. I was amazed that the school an the people in the school are of a different world than existed when I was as the bird. The mind that stated “the only constant in this universe is change.” So true, but fond memories for the bird!

    THOUGHTS AND SUCH: coopgl@cox.net

    Comment by gordon cooper — April 21, 2009 @ 4:42 pm

  126. Wow! I’m overwhelmed with memories. I went there out of basic for the Agents class in the Summer of 68…Just after Bobby Kennedy was shot. Some of the people I met there are friends of mine to this day. I took a weekend off and hitched down to Virgina Beach to visit a buddy while I was in casual co. I just didn’t have it in me to come back after the weekend and went awol for a week. Finally I got up the guts to head back and thought I would be shot immediately. Amazingly, nobody even knew I was gone! Went to the Holabird inn bar and got on their Dart Team. First time I ever played darts and still play to this day. Placed 2nd in the world in ’96. Great Site.

    Comment by Jack Radigan — April 22, 2009 @ 5:47 am

  127. Gordon Cooper,

    Curious, how have you found Holabird different from Huachucha(sp?)? Different troops? Interested in your impressions.
    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny — May 3, 2009 @ 10:00 am

  128. Arrived at Holabird in April 68 after basic at Bragg.Memories much like everyone else. Seemed like eaven after basic. Casual until June , then started class 96B20-Intel analyst. Was to go OCS in Fall. Got orders for RVN onlytobe sent back to Holabird. Back on orders for OCS.Orders came thru for OCS but in INF. Turned down. Who wanted to INF LTi68. RVN with 525 – assigned to 55th MID in Nha Trang tillMay 69.Extended to Task Force South in Dalat/PhanThiet until 9/69. Early out .Did not want to go to Bragg & paint rock. Ended mltary career with WVANG in 91. Fond memories. The BLOCK – had lunchon 21st birthday at Playboy club. Great officers -especially Col PrestonDavis inAdvance cource. Great bars off base. JohnDoyle

    Comment by John Doyle — May 6, 2009 @ 6:42 am

  129. I was at Fort Holabird from January 69 till May when I got orders for Germany.
    I went through the 97B4 class and how well I remember and still tremble at the thought of “Peachy Keen” and “Peter Poor”- what super memories.
    I don’t miss the stench of Colgate creek but I do recall it.

    I was briefly at the 66th MI Group in Munich and then a week at the 527th MI Company but spent most of my time in the Karlsruhe Field Office on Smiley Barracks in Karlsruhe, Germany.

    I was sent to Oberamagau (lord wish I could spell) to learn German hence my MOS became 97B4LGM3.

    Would love to hear from any of you.

    Comment by John Washington — May 22, 2009 @ 5:12 pm

  130. The 527 MI company being of course in K town.

    Comment by John Washington — May 22, 2009 @ 5:14 pm

  131. One more incident if I may:
    I was interviewing an actor who appeared as a gay man dressed in a blue velvet smoking jacket, open at the waist. He sat right next to me on a couch that had been provided as a stage prop. I was nervous as heck and at the end of the interview he asked me if I had anything else I wanted to say or ask. Anxious to get off stage I replied “NO” to which he replied I just flunked the interview.

    A LT told me that I would be interviewd by the actor Peter Poor (Joseph Bandiera) I think. Worst guy you could get.

    Every time Peter Poor entered the room using whatever name the role called for that day, the class would hiss and boo him and right on clue he would turn to the class and say “I hear air escaping from someone’s head” and we all laughed and he ate that up.

    For one week I had the Aztec Two Step in anticipation of my next interview. The LT reminded me that if I didn’t do well, I would be dropped from the class.

    So my day came, people hissed and booed and Peter did his thing and then it was my turn to be on stage.

    Knowing this would probably be my last interview if not my last day on earth, Peter asked me who my installation coordinator was – how the heck do I know who is the head of some installation? I looked at Peter and said “General” and then I paused to think and out of my stupid mouth came the word “Electric”- Peter stood up, his hands turning white from gripping the table, spit coming out of his mouth and he asked if I was ready to be an Agent.

    The class was howling, I was almost in tears and I was later told that the ONLY reason I didnt wash out of the class was that Peter Poor thought it was funny too.

    God bless that man.

    Comment by John Washington — May 22, 2009 @ 7:36 pm

  132. I can be reached at jwashington@vtc.net

    Comment by John Washington — May 22, 2009 @ 7:59 pm

  133. One thing I can mention while working as a CI Agent on Smiley Barracks in Karlsruhe, Germany, was the time I was coming back from getting the mail.

    I noticed some guy with a camera on a tripod so I went over to him and asked what he was taking pictures of. He showed me an old car in a field and said some friend in Karlsruhe who had no access to the barracks might be interested in buying the car if it was in good shape and so he was taking pictures of it in hopes of selling it.

    I went over to the tripod and looked through the lens of the camera and all I saw were military vehicles, not the car in question.

    I went to our office and told what I saw and our entire office along with a German who worked for us and a Dutchman – the wizard of photography (he could do amazing things with photographs) all decended on this guy in the field.

    We confiscated his camera and developed the film and what we saw were all sorts of NATO weapons all laid out on a blanket. Weapons from the US, France, Germany, Belgium etc.

    It turns out that the man was a Czech and worked as a cook. There were numerous Czechs and Poles who worked at various jobs on the barracks and all of a sudden they all got “notices of sick relatives back home” and they all left.

    Fancy that !!!!!!!!

    Comment by John — May 22, 2009 @ 10:58 pm

  134. Am I on a roll or what !!!!!!! – last one I promise.
    Once coming back to the office, my boss informed me that that American Red Cross had called and wanted to see me.

    If I recall the Red Cross was near the entrance to Smiley Barracks.

    The Red Cross doesn’t call unless there is an emergency so sweating and heart beating I raced up to the Red Cross building.

    Waiting a second to catch my breath and to compose myself for the bad news, I went into the personnel office and was asked “How long has it been since you have written your mother?”

    I said “What” and they replied that she (good ole mom) had called the Red Cross because she hadn’t heard from me.

    Needless to say I had a letter in the mail the next day. I told “She Who Must Be Obeyed” (SWMBO) that I was well and if ever she received an envelope with nothing in it, it meant I was still alive.

    I did manage to send a letter now and then and several empty envelopes.

    Comment by John — May 23, 2009 @ 12:18 am

  135. Good site

    Comment by John Doyle — May 23, 2009 @ 8:21 pm

  136. This is a good read:

    Comment by John — May 23, 2009 @ 10:32 pm

  137. I remember when we arrived at Fort Holabird in January of 69. Cold as heck and of course the barracks were none too warm. If the wind could blow in so could the rats come in.

    My aunt had sent me a tin of brownies but by the time I got them they had dried out and had been smashed to bits. So I offered them to the guys in the barracks.

    What wasn’t eaten was used as rat bait for the traps we had been setting for the past week with of course no luck.

    The lights went off and then “snap !!!! – a trap went off. The consensus of the group was to flush the thing down the latrine. Little did we know that the guy really did flush the thing down the latrine but at the same time ran his hands under the faucet to get them all wet and when he came back into the dark barracks, he ran his hands over his “bunkies” face and said “Man did that thing bleed”

    Gagging could be heard barracks away.

    Comment by John — May 24, 2009 @ 3:02 pm

  138. Super classic MI ring- wish I had known about this years ago.

    Comment by John — May 24, 2009 @ 9:26 pm

  139. Well I broke down today 4/26/09 and bought a ring from the above website.

    Comment by John — May 26, 2009 @ 3:30 pm

  140. I couldn’t believe it when I stumbled across this website. I could have written the description. I came to Holabird from Dix in September 1965, as an E2. I was lucky to find a cab driver who knew where Holabird was. Noone at the bus station had any idea wher it was. I was in a state of shock for a week, after basic. I was in the interrogator course, and graduated in December, 1965 to return to the 826 Mi Detachment in Hartford, CT. I thoroughly enjoyed all the comments. They brought back pleasant memories.

    Comment by Bob Reuter — June 4, 2009 @ 12:47 pm

  141. Thanks Bob for sharing your memories.


    Comment by John — June 5, 2009 @ 7:52 pm

  142. Bob,


    Comment by manny — June 6, 2009 @ 4:50 pm

  143. 41 years ago today, I got out of the army and left Ft HaHa forever. (I wish I could go back and visit but I know it is gone).

    Comment by bill — June 7, 2009 @ 12:15 am

  144. See posting 19. Now have seen aerial of Holabird in early 60s, have emailed Manny Adler on this site, and dug up my DD-214.

    Was EM permanent party photographer, lived on 3rd floor bay of lg. brick bldg. (seen in aerial). Marched to work to another brick bldg referred to as CIC Headquarters. Believe it was near eastern edge of Ft. Our floor (lowest) contained locked files, B&C, mechanical sorters and our photo lab.

    Duty assignment was: HQ Detachment,8579th DU; AIC, 8579th DU; HQ Co,8579th AAU.

    Can anyone tell me what DU, AIC, and AAU stood for? And what were thay the 8579th of?

    Can anyone tell me where to find my workplace on the aerial photo?

    Finally, dated a cute WAC – but that’s another story.

    Charlie Larus

    Comment by Charlie Larus — June 10, 2009 @ 10:59 am

  145. What an amazing web-site! I arrived at the “Bird” in December, 1965 to begin 97B classes in January, 1966. I couldn’t believe I was in the US Army! What a trip! Yes, the Holabird Inn was a favorite spot as was the sub bar down the street. I remember all the South Vietnamese officers, including generals being trained in our classroom building. I still have a lot of the old manuals we used and classroom notes. The “rabbit hunt” in downtown Baltimore was a memorable stunt. Does anyone remember Brett Hardy? He was a classmate of mine who invited me to his wedding in Washington DC. If I remember correctly, his bride was the daughter of a NY senator.

    It’s great reading all the stories of 40-45 years ago. After graduation, I went to DLI in Monterey to learn Romanian in 1966; ending up in Germany as an AH for OCE targeted against the east.

    And, of course, Ma Klecka will be remembered forever!

    Comment by Tony Wirkus — June 25, 2009 @ 4:04 pm

  146. Arrived at the Bird on January of 1968, straight from Fort Dix. I don’t remember how I got there. First thing I heard was from somebody who said “You won’t believe this place”.

    Spent several weeks on a casual status as a cook’s helper, not KP, but helping with the cooking.

    I knew one guy who was sent to a detail to do painting. He told them he was allergic to painting, so they told him to report back to get another detail. Instead he went back to the barracks, and put up a sign saying he was on a night-time detail! Never did anything.

    I had about two years of college, but was less educated than many of my classmates, we had about 5 guys with law degrees. Everybody went to ‘Nam except one guy who got himself into the AG’s office. He went later.

    Trained as a 96B, Order of Battle. Sspent a wonderful year in Phu Bai, as in “Phu Bai is all right!”

    Comment by Ken — June 25, 2009 @ 6:04 pm

  147. Manny,
    Finally reread this interesting site [five years after initial read].
    Thanks for your answer to my question [#3 above]. By the way I finally remembered his last name – Wallace. He was somewhat embarrassed because he got 100% on the first two tests.
    Did anyone flunk out of your classes? I don’t recall anyone in our class flunking out. One engineer left early for an assignment requiring his talents. Another guy who spoke Italian left early to be a “grad student” in Italy. I accepted their leaving at face value.
    Are many of you members of the National CIC Association [NCICA] and/or the Association of CIC Veterans {ACICV}?
    Stan Solin organized our Orange County CA group several years ago for lunches every two months. We welcome any one interested in the camaraderie; no dues and no membership in any organization required.
    I don’t remember Colgate Creek, probably because I was there in winter time {Jan. thru April 1956].
    Do any of you have stories about the instructors? Bernard Sweeney {DAC}was such an avowed anti-Communist and taught for so many years that the 1950s pupils remember him.
    How could I forget Wallace because he saved my bacon. Several weeks into our training I corrected the instructor. The instructor didn’t appreciate it, but let it pass. We {I} learned to just shut up {Yes, I should have known better]. Later in the course, I wasn’t paying much attention because this same instructor was boring. He called on me. When I provided the answers to his five questions he went apoplectic. It was really intense until Wallace asked an appropriate question and defused the situation. I profusely thanked him after class.

    Comment by bernie Thielen — July 16, 2009 @ 3:39 pm

  148. Just like the last post, I too have reread the site. It is amazing to read all these posts about an army post (Fort Holabird) and NO bitching or complaints. That tells you what a great place it was to be assigned to as a student or permanent party.

    Comment by bill — July 18, 2009 @ 10:18 am

  149. Comment #21 A few years back from Jeff Gallant. I remember Rocco and Nick. Nick and I landed up going to the 1st Infantry Division, with myself at Division and Nick going to 3rd Brigade. Last I saw Nick he was returning to “the world” after re-upping.

    Comment by Cesar Rosales — July 19, 2009 @ 1:39 pm

  150. Just discovered this site and the memories all came back. I went to the basic course and 9666 course in the first part of 1965. Got assigned to Region 1 of the 113th in Chicago. After duty in the region HQ went to Fifth Army Field Office as a agent and later SAC. I note that Craig Anderson was on the site and left a message several years ago. He was one of the agents who worked for me. If he sees this, I hope he responds: I’d like to find out what he has done for a career. That draftee army was an odd one and with all of the passions that arose from the VN War, lots of controversy as to troop quality issues: That was not the case with INTC. I met very few people who were not really superior soldiers. The Holabird training was worthwhile and impressive. I had a great car pool (George Gore and Nick Hanson ((Imagery Interp.)) and Dick Marler – 9666): Wonder what happened to them? Played more pool in the small day room than at any other time in my life..eating lunch and shooting 8 Ball. After IOBC at Benning the experiences at Holabird were an entirely different slice of the Army.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — July 23, 2009 @ 5:38 pm

  151. Bill Yantis:

    The draft pulled in some very bright folks as is evidenced by the sense of humor and literacy of this website.


    Comment by Manny Adler — July 24, 2009 @ 7:16 pm

  152. What memorys of the Bird. I was a 97D graduating in July 68. Since the rumor was most of our class (44) were going to Nam I got everyone to kick in a buck so the lucky ones who didnt go could have a party at the 1 2 3 on us. The Army in it’s wisdom decided that if your name started with a R, S, or T, you got to go to Nam and the rest got very nice stateside duty. Since I was an S and I held the money, I changed the rules and the seven of us “lucky” guys went into the 123 and bought every pitcher they had, stacked them on tables and got as drunk as I have ever been.
    I spent my year with Det A, 1st Bn, 525th in Quang Tri then the last 18 months at DODNACC in St Louis

    Comment by Kurt Schulz — August 1, 2009 @ 1:22 am

  153. Found this looking for LIDMAC (Loyalty/Integrity/Discretion/Morals/AndCharacter
    Was at “The Bird” twice. Once in 1969 for six weeks for the tactical intelligence staff officer’s course. Then in 1971 I was back for six months for the counter intelligence controll officers course. We were the last officer’s agents class (9666) to go through Holabird. The next class went to Ft Huachucha Arizona.
    Does anyone remember the typing teacher from WWII – Mrs. Klecka? asdf jkl;. Seem to remember a ton of typing homework. Wound up sharing an apartment at Bear Run Apartments (recommended by post housing) with Larry Robertson from Albany Oregon & Roy Sumisaki from California (I think Frisco). Many fun lunches at the Holabird Inn across the street from the post famous for their rectangular hamburger hero and, of course, their drinks. There was a new car assembly plant within a mile or two of the post and they gave an interesting tour. Anyone remember Sparrows Point? It was near the Bear Run Apartments and there was some kind of steel mill there that gave off iron dust and everything around would turn rust red overnight. Went to Vietnam from Holabird and served with Col Wensyl (Wenzyl?) in the 3rd Bn, 525th MI Group, headquartered in Bein Hoa and covering Military Region III. Great assignment for being over there. Glad I didn’t know about the tunnels under Cu Chi when I was there each month. Anyway, this was a nice drive down memory lane. To all, be well !!!

    Comment by Steve Schein — August 3, 2009 @ 2:22 pm

  154. I attended CIC school at the bird 7/5/54-11/54. I was with a large group of just completed ROTC 2nd lts, directly from college. Many were Ivy league. I was married & lived off base in Dundalk. Boniface Campbell was Commanding Genl at the time. Would love to hear more from my class. bb

    Comment by barry bonoff — August 5, 2009 @ 3:54 pm

  155. Barry:

    Where did you go after Holabird? This site keeps getting hits and more interesting as it goes. Thanks Jim for getting the ball rolling!


    Comment by manny — August 6, 2009 @ 2:22 pm

  156. Hi,
    A question—do any of you remember two guys from New Jersey? One was Mike Soriano and the other was Doug Scott.

    Comment by Jeanne Giaiimis — August 19, 2009 @ 5:36 pm

  157. I stumbled on this by accident. It was fun reading. After being drafted and basic trainin at Ft Ord in California, I was sent to Holabird in the fall of 1963 for the CI agent’s course. I remember the time there fondly and actually enjoyed the instruction and relaxed atmosphere after basic. JFK was assassinated while we sat in class. I will never forget when the major who was teaching our class walked into the room and told us, “Your Commander-in-Chief is dead.” I was stationed at the 526th INTC in Okinawa for a little over a year and then to the Pasadena, Calif. field office. Anyone else reading this there when I was?

    Comment by David Sexton — August 30, 2009 @ 1:58 am

  158. Oh, I do remember Mrs. Klecka’s typing class. Called it “Clicking with Klecka.”

    Comment by David Sexton — August 30, 2009 @ 2:08 am

  159. Class B-501 97B 1967 – Vivid memories of the 1-2-3 club and green beer. Returned a few years later for the Defense Against Surreptitious Methods of Entry (DAME)and Defense Agaist Sound Equipment (DASE).

    Comment by Jim Corey — September 10, 2009 @ 9:22 am

  160. Seems like only youngsters are responding. I was at Holabird Signal Depot and Camp Holabird from Jan 47 to Sep 49, S/Sgt, Company A (Officer’s Training Co.) Chief Clerk. No air conditioning and TYPEWRITERS. Any old timers there during that time?

    Comment by Charles Phillips — September 10, 2009 @ 10:01 pm

  161. Keep the comments and the memories coming. Great page to read.

    Comment by John — September 12, 2009 @ 6:51 pm

  162. Arrived at the Bird in May 69. Attended 96B class R-20 (I think). Graduated 30 Jul 1969. One of 17 class members who received orders to Viet Nam. Of those five of us ended up at the 191st MI Det, 1st Cav, Phuoc Vinh. But that is another story. Holabird was really another world after Basic at Ft. Polk. Arrived late on Friday (early Sat). Remember getting up late Sat morning to see everyone putting on civies. I didn’t have any but didn’t waste time buying some down town. I remember a lot of people talking about waiting for their class to start (97B) waiting for clearances or birthdays (seems like you had to be 21 before you could become an ‘agent’. So many memories…..123 Club, Dundalk Ave, Colgate Creek, and oh those early morning classes (Mon) after long week end parties. Glad I found this site. I remember classmates; Conte, Powley, Robideaux, Barney, Shoop (USMC) and class leader Smalls. Unfortunately I have lost contact with all of them.
    Thanks for the memories and WELCOME HOME, BROTHERS.

    Comment by Greg McNally — September 19, 2009 @ 5:40 pm

  163. You had to be 21 as a 97D so you could carry a side-arm in civilian clothes stateside.

    Comment by bill — September 19, 2009 @ 11:19 pm

  164. I was at Holabird Signal Depot from fall of 1946 to fall of 1947. Was in the 181’st Signal Depot Co. and spent my time at the big signal repair shop re: advanced training as a radio repairman.

    Comment by Laurence Stratton — September 21, 2009 @ 8:59 pm

  165. Arrived at Holabird March ’66 for 96D course . Went to Nam in July ’66 , 1st M.I. in Da Nang . Was in 2nd
    Armored Div prior to Holabird and all anyone cared about was getting my div patches off my uniforms .Hell On Wheels seemed to bother everyone .After Nam ended up a Bragg in HQ Co Contic .

    Comment by jeff morgan — October 2, 2009 @ 8:03 am

  166. I failed to mention that from 1947-1949, Co.A CO was Maj. Dellinger, XO Lt. Coats, 1st Sgt Bivert, Mail Cpl Wargo. Also from Air Force Basic in San Antonio: Payne, Millslagle, Shaffstall, many others. Sgt’s Jackson, Nettleton and Potvin were there also.

    Comment by Charles Phillips — October 12, 2009 @ 11:42 am

  167. There were some Air Force barracks on base. Each morning blue (what else) buses took Air Force personnel into Baltimore proper. I believe they were Air Research and Development Headquarters folks? We never crossed paths. Hush-hush among the hush. Anyone remember this or know any more?

    Comment by manny — October 13, 2009 @ 4:49 pm

  168. I remember eating in the enlisted mess and the airforce personnel always had their own section on the far side of the room seperated by a low wall divider. (1965-1968).

    Comment by bill — October 14, 2009 @ 12:07 am

  169. Attended 97c course in early 1968. Arrived RVN 6 June 68, day after RK was shot. Into to Vietnam was on Ponderosa rooftop drinking and watching the light show – tracer bullets. II Corps got me hooked on Asia and have been involved with it ever since (www.silkqin.com), but regret I didn’t keep in touch with classmates.

    Comment by John Thompson — October 15, 2009 @ 1:12 am

  170. Anyone know how how to locate site of the Ponderosa in Saigon of today?

    Comment by John Thompson — October 15, 2009 @ 1:14 am

  171. Was at the “Bird” summer & fall of 1962. Mrs. Klecha, Major Tarbutton, actors in fishbowl. Korea 1963, Philadelphia FO 1964. Would like to find classmates. 971 S/A.

    Comment by Larry Taylor — October 15, 2009 @ 9:03 pm

  172. Went thru Fort Holibird in 1948 after taking a clerical course at Fort Lee, Va. Went to the 115th CIC Detachmet in San Francisco and spent a year there. Was then sent to the 66th CIC Detachment in Stuttgart, Germany where I spent over 3 years. Then back to Fort Holibird to take the agents course After completing that I left the army. Have a lot of memories of my days in the CIC.

    Comment by Harry Carlisle — October 20, 2009 @ 6:28 pm

  173. Anyone out there remember Lt. Col. Isadore Max Belba? Working on a biography of Lt. Col. Belba.

    Comment by Mark — October 22, 2009 @ 11:30 am

  174. Was at Holabird for basic and 9666 classes May-Sep 1965. Then to Korea (2d MI Det) Oct ’65 – Feb ’67. One classmate to Korea with me – lost touch with all others. Memories of the “Bird” are sketchy. I do remember the great Italian food at Squires. Regret that the old post is now history.

    Comment by Graydon (Ed) Elliott — October 22, 2009 @ 8:50 pm

  175. W. Griffith:

    I served at Holabird as a 97D20 from March-October ‘68 in OPS III & IV, before I replaced a guy named (Dan?) Moen as the NCOIC of the USAINTC Liaison office in the Pentagon. I worked under BG William Blakely and his Liaison Officer, Lt. Col. Paul Feduska. We must have met at some time. Blakely was later replaced by BG “Black Jack” Matthews, just before I ETS’d in Dec. ‘70. Quite a ride…I worked in OPSIV as a “swing shift” analyst during Chicago DNC, coordinating with FBI & CIA. I remember with no particular fondness “Subversive Sam’s” bar and the Hardy’s squat & gobble. More than anything, I remember the camp followers at the NCO club. Some wild nights with local factory girls. I remember once being callled in to drive one of the brass to the Pentagon before I was transferred there…got totally lost. Good guy though, he never said a word. You must have been a better driver. The only other thing that really sticks out from now more than 40 years ago, was meeting then MAJ Lee Holland, who eventually became one of the Iran hostages. Thank God he survived that ordeal. Well enough reminiscing for now. ‘Hope your service served you well.

    Comment by Michael Kurz — October 23, 2009 @ 11:04 am

  176. Great site….my dad and family was stationed at Fort Holabird, MD.

    When I ask some older vets if they ever heard of this base, most of them just shake their head and say “Nope”….I glad to see that there actually was a Fort Holabird, MD.

    Enjoy reading the stories posted.

    Comment by Jim Scott — October 23, 2009 @ 11:15 am

  177. Jim,

    Holabird was probably one of the least known posts in the Army. I have encountered very few veterans who have heard of the place (or folks when I was in active service for that matter).


    Comment by Manny Adler — October 26, 2009 @ 3:41 pm

  178. Manny,

    According to my dad’s military record, he was assigned to Holabird from 18 Oct 55 to 18 Mar 57. He transfered from Ft.Meade (HHC 2101 SU)…no idea what this stood for..??

    Anyways, his record shows that he was assigned to “Intel Sch USAIC, Ft. Holabird, MD. I don’t suppose you or someone else may recall what that stands for..?

    You see my dad passed away several years ago (he never talk much about his duties while in the Army) and now my kids want to know what grandpa did while he was in the Army. Unfortunately, I don’t have many answers.

    Any suggestions on where to look?

    Comment by Jim — October 27, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

  179. USAIC was U S Army Intelligence Command (or Corps)

    Comment by bill — October 27, 2009 @ 11:47 pm

  180. Hi, I am pleased to have found this site because when I mention Fort Holabird people look at me like I am from the Twilight Zone. I was there as a MI student 2nd Lt in QV13 (Quick Vietnam)in early 1970 but went to Korea instead and became the S-2 for the Eight Army MI Group. While in training I lived in downtown Baltimore in a high rise appartment building called Sutton Place. My daughter is now going to Johns Hopkins University and I have recently asked people about Fort Holabird ant I just get starange looks and no one has even heard of the place! So much for history. I have found the Fort loacation but I don’t think there is anything left of the Fort. I will be back in Baltimore next week and will take a short pilgramage to the site 🙂

    Comment by Dan Hussey — November 2, 2009 @ 10:01 am

  181. Jim,

    U.S. Army Intelligence Center (also Command, changed in different time periods). CIC School, etc. Your dad and I may well have served together as our service match closely. Since I do not have his name I have no way of providing more informatio, sorry.


    Comment by manny — November 2, 2009 @ 3:05 pm

  182. I was a 97B40A back in 1970, then on to the 902nd MI, then the 113th MI and finally a stint in Korea, TDY to VN. Anyone remember the Sandwich shop down (left) from the front gate? Best sandwiches ever. Before there were sandwich shops too. Glad this site exists. Thought I was drifting off to the Twilight Zone myself. No one has ever heard of the place. Glad I’m not really alone!

    Comment by Lon — November 6, 2009 @ 7:04 pm

  183. Harleys, everything smothered in onions!

    Comment by bill — November 7, 2009 @ 1:15 am

  184. Manny, Bill and fellow readers,

    Reference to my post #178 and your replies #179, #181.

    Thank you!

    My dad’s name was Harry E. Scott; (AKA: Red-because of his hair color). I believe he was a Sgt. I hope that may help.

    According to his military records, he was assigned as a “Inf Instr, Intel Sch USAIC Ft Holabird, MD”. No idea what he did or may of taught.

    After Holabird, he was stationed at: “USA Artic Indoc Sch 8353 APO 733”. I believe this was at Ft. Greeley, Alaska.

    Prior duties included, Pennsylvania Army National Guard, KMAG-Korea, 132 Ord Co DAS Ft. Meade, MD; 55th Ord Co DAS Ft. Meade, MD; Fort Greely Alaska; Knox, KY; Ft. Dix, NJ; Ft. Polk, LA; and previous Navy enlistment in the 1940’s.

    I hope you may recall him or be able to point me in the right direction.

    Thanks for your service to our country!

    Comment by Jim — November 8, 2009 @ 9:48 am

  185. Forgot to mention that we use to live on Oakwood Road, Baltimore, MD (Dundalk) during this time. I may have some old photos.

    Comment by Jim — November 8, 2009 @ 9:53 am

  186. Stumbled on this site doing a post-mortem search on behalf of my Dad, Curt “Pierce” Davis, Japanese POW during 1942-1945. He told me a couple of years before he passed away (in 6/09) that he had been at Ft Holabird, but never said in what capacity. I know he had been in pub affairs office at Ft Knox where I was born, and had been a typing teacher at some point early 50’s of Korean War recruits. Dad had written poetry as a POW and when he came to Holabird he loaned writing to someone named Mayer/Myer/Meyer/Myers/Meyers…. and never received it back. So I’m still searching, but if I stumble across anyone out there who knew my dad, please give a shout out.

    Comment by Faith (Davis) Trinkl — November 11, 2009 @ 3:13 pm

  187. Discovered your site recently & thought I’d check in on Veteran’s Day. I arrived at Holabird Nov.4th,1966 from Ft. Jackson and started class several weeks later as a 96B20. The place seemed surreal especially Casual Company and many guys wearing civvies after normal duty hours.Got to go home that first weekend and every one after since I lived in Waterbury,Ct.One of my more memorable chintzy details in Casual was a Q-boat assignment from about 5 at night to 6 in the morning. Someone said they used it to drop agents off at designated areas.As I recall, it looked like a tug boat with a galley and full seating area. I was told not to go to sleep but to polish the brass on the entire boat to ensure that I wasn’t to snooze.Fell asleep about 2 and woke in time to greet the guy in charge.He chewed my butt off for napping saying I did a lousy job. Actually he was right as I only did the bell,didn’t look much better than the remaining brass.When I started the R-11 analyst course many guys had degrees or several years of college,one student was a foot doctor who refused a commission.Remember the “rout step” Colgate Bridge whose creek rendered the odor of the day. There were other smells that wafted into our campus from the beer breweries and the rubber processing I think.Could not believe it when I was assigned to Ft. Shafter,Hawaii after filling out a “dream sheet” It was a very small installation a few miles from Waikiki,no formations no extra duty,”It was Paradise with the 319th M.I. Bn.” The Pueblo Incident sent me to the 502nd M.I. Bn. in Seoul, Korea with G2 8th Army.This was a very good assignment and subsequently I volunteered for Nam. July 1968 saw me with Security Plans&Operations with U.S.A.H.A.C. ETS was the day the U.S landed on the moon,20July,69;many beers since the “123 Club”.Thanks for your time, Manny, great site .I think we all had something special at the “Bird” to remember, especially the unique caliber of men we served with there. This site reflects it.I’dliketo say hello to a few guys who were at the Bird:Doug”Stonewall”Jackson,Monteiro,Cleavand,the”Count” Grossberg,Doc Levin,Larry Formicella,Mike Guidone,Keller,and everybody from R11″ Ed Hotchkiss

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — November 11, 2009 @ 8:39 pm

  188. Thanks to all of you for serving.

    Comment by John — November 13, 2009 @ 7:24 pm

  189. Got to Holabird middle of 1967. 97B40 class. Two USMC E5’s in our class-just back from Vietnam. Remember the Holabird Inn well…..best ham sandwich I ever ate. I remember that a lot of the guys were from the East Coast and would catch the train home on the weekend. I was from Michigan and was stuck in town. The two Marines had a car and we would buy a case of beer and end up at a drive-in movie on Friday night. We would usually get tossed before the movie was over. Left Holabird and went to the 101st at Ft. Campbell, but didn’t stay long. We were interviewing incoming draftees about political leanings and drug use. Had enough of that after a month or two and volunteered to go to Vietnam. Assigned to 5th SFGA in Nha Trang.

    Great site you have here. Stirred up a lot of memories.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — November 15, 2009 @ 11:09 pm

  190. Just found the site. I arrived at Ft Holabird in Dec 65 right before the big snowstorm. Basic at Ft Polk, I had been told Ft Ord so when I got to the Bird I didn’t know what to expect. No KP, good food and laundry. 97B training in between the Holabird Inn and the “Block”. I couldn’t believe it but sent back to CA for the 115th Riverside FO. Never made it reassigned to LA Field Office, 15 min from home. Everything was great, working in civvies, background investigations and did some TDY to AZ and Ft. Ord. Then, I got my orders for the 525 MID in Saigon, March 1967. My boss, CWO old CIC hand, asked me if wanted to go. I said no choice, he called a friend and I was reassigned to the 526 MID Okinawa for 15 months. Best time of my life, TDY all over and no NAM. Great memories, keep up the site.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 18, 2009 @ 10:27 pm

  191. Have great memories of the “Holy Bird.” Drove up after Basic at Ft. Jackson in May 54. What a change!!
    Spent a lot of time on E. Baltimore Street until I got married On Aug. 1, 54. Flew home to NC, got married on Sunday afternoon – flew back to Baltimore and was in class Monday AM. Great honeymoon. Shipped out to Germany in October and spent the next 18 months at Region I, 66th CIC Group (7807 USAREUR DET.) in Stuttgart. Would love to hear from Hoben, Glass, Huckelberry, Childs or any of my classmates.

    Comment by Gene Garland — November 24, 2009 @ 4:40 pm

  192. Don’t have a clue how I found this site, but boy does it bring back memories. From basic at Ft. Jackson to the Bird in March 1966 (96D) then to Offut Air Force Base for more training then to 502nd in Korea and back to Holabird as trainer for Reserve Units that were being called up. Hated to hear that the place has closed down, would love to visit one more time.

    Comment by Steve Bostick — November 30, 2009 @ 8:29 pm

  193. Wow! What a find!! My 1st memory of Ft. Holibird was breakfast, after arriving (0030). Arrived in front of the SP5 “chef” and was asked how I wanted my eggs. Almost lost it right there. Ft. Leonard Wood was never that kind. Spent several months there in the CI course, 97B. Spent a lot of time at Memorial Stadium and got to see every AL team play, when not throwing darts at the Holibird Inn. Powell, Stormin’ Norman and the big stud for the Senators. Left there in June 1971 and arrived at the 511th on 7-10-71. Spent 2 days at HQ and then left for RO Graf, 7th Army Training Center. Left the unit and rotated home in 10-73.

    Comment by Craig Childress — December 5, 2009 @ 6:23 pm

  194. Craig Chidlress – i did 3 years as a 97B at RO Graf (1981-84)…it was above the bank when i arrived and then moved to a stand-alone building. Our translator was Alfred (Fred) J. Tampe. Do you remember him? if so, drop me a line at sammlm@roadrunner.com.


    Comment by Mike Miller — December 5, 2009 @ 11:09 pm

  195. Stumbled on this site from a Goggle alert. Was at Holabird from Nov 65-Feb 66, after coming from the engineers via DLIWC-Bulgarian with over 10 years service already and a SP5. Met CPT Warnicke while taking the 96C IPW course and was invited to his home with my family – I still see him every year in church in Seattle on Easter. Spent the next 17 years in MI mostly in Germany with the 66th and 18th MI and retired from Ft Lewis WA in 1983 as a CW3. After retirement from State Patrol in 2004 worked a year at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq. None of the MI guys there ever even heard about Ft Holabird.

    Comment by Art Farash — December 7, 2009 @ 4:03 am

  196. What a trip Holabird was. I attended from Sept. ’68 until February ’69 as a 97B40. We all expected to go right to Nam after completion of the course. About three weeks before finishing we were given a sheet to fill in that listed our linguistic skills. There were columns across the top that read “fluent” “understand” and “no knowledge”. Down the left side were listed the languages: Vietnamese, Laotian, French, Spanish, Italian, German, Other. I checked off “no knowledge” on all but one. Having taken a semester of German in Jr. High School I deemed myself “fluent” in German and spent the next 2 1/2 years in Frankfurt at the 503 MID at Drake Edwards Kaserne and the 165th MI Co. at Gutleut Kaserne where I never once had to use the language. Ironically, I became fluent in German during my tour there but that was due to dating the German girls, not any language school.

    Comment by Don Marikovics — December 7, 2009 @ 2:18 pm

  197. I arrived at Fort Holabird in January, 1961, after basic training at Fort Dix, NJ. I stayed at “The Bird” until the end of May after completing the agent’s course. From there, I spent a year in Monterey at ALS studying Ukrainian, (with Dave Smith, Dennis McNeil, and Joe Kalousek), and then to FO Nuernberg, Germany with the 511 MI until coming home.

    The Commandant at Holabird in ’61 was General Prather, who among other things, enjoyed staging Friday afternoon parades. These misguided spectacles began in early April.

    The field was never quite dry enough, and there were plenty of low, wet spots through which we needed to slosh, causing lots of damage to the spit-shined shoes we wore with our dress uniforms. The marching band was made up of USAINTS students with varying musical and marching abilities, and was termed the “Drum and Stumble Corps.” It was the NCO’s who came up with that name.

    I had a squad leader whose name was Robert Doane. Others in my squad were Paul Bosten, Bill Hodge, and Bob Carpenter. This was at a time when “The Mickey Mouse Club” was a favorite of daytime television for kids. Our squad reworked the words of the theme song from this show to run like this:

    “Who’s the leader of the squad that’s made for you and me? R-O-B-E-R-T-D-O-A-N-E”

    We learned that Bob Doane didn’t like this very much, so we stopped singing it in his presence, but we enjoyed harmonizing in the bar across the street after a few beers.

    Two guys in my class were named Munzenrider and Heckenlively. The staff had a good time mispronouncing their names. Polysyllabic words were tough for them.

    I understand that Fort Holabird was used for housing German POWs during WWII, and after that, Watergate-related criminals were kept there in the 1970s. I believe that it is now a housing development.

    I miss you all, and wish I could see every one of you again. I can be contacted at: wkrause55@gmail.com. I would like to hear from somebody.

    Bill Krause

    Comment by Bill Krause — December 7, 2009 @ 11:22 pm

  198. Bill,

    Friday parades were a tradition (or abomination) for ego gratification for the Generals, some dependents and assorted visitors. Permanent party had to endure these along wih kp, guard duty,etc. And they wanted us to re-up!


    Comment by manny — December 10, 2009 @ 10:30 am

  199. I was assigned at Fort Holibird the first time in 1948 and was sent from there to Camp Lee Virginia to learn how to type. Then to the 115th CIC Detachment in San Francisco as a clerk. After about a year I was sent to Stutgart, Germany and served over 3 years in the 66th CIC Detachment. Left Germany in 1952 and went back to Fort Holibird for several months training. After completing the training I decided to leave the Army in December 1952. Would like to hear from anyone who might remember me. carlisleh@aol.com

    Comment by Harry Carlisle — December 13, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

  200. Found this sit by accident. Brings back lots of memories. I would like to hear from guys assigned to the USAREUR Liason Team in the late 1960,s.

    Comment by Jerry Gilbreath — December 17, 2009 @ 1:46 pm

  201. My name is Tom Brennan. I was at Ft. Holabird in the Spring of 1964 for the agent course (9666), then to Monterey for the German course, to Border Resident Office, Hof, in Germany as OIC from Feb 1965 to mid-1966. After Hof, I transferred to Nurnberg as the FO Commander, 511th MI Company, 66th MI Group until Dec 1967 when I separated..

    My greatest memories of Holabird include Mrs. Klecka for typing and the actors who tied us up in knots during the interviews. I recall Mr. Robert?) Bandillera (phon) and Ms.(Julia?) Margolies (phon). There was one other whose name escapes me. It was very humbling to be behind the one way glass wall and hearing the laughter from the rest of the class on the other side when I made an ass of myself. Then there was the day they polygraphed me in that room and held up a Playboy centerfold in front of my face. I can still hear the laughter as the needle went crazy.

    There was a classmate who was a Navy Lieutenant j.g.. who had a convertible. We car pooled from Washington every day and drove through the Harbor Tunnel. We would remove our hats because if they ever flew off in the tunnel they would be gone forever. One morning a field grade from the post observed us without our hats and saw the Holabird sticker on the car. . The Lt. was summoned to his office and berated for being “out of uniform”. The Lt. could not believe this chicken shit and just stared at the officer until he was dismissed..

    I would love to hear from anyone and can be reached at walkingt@hotmail.com.

    Comment by Tom Brennan — December 21, 2009 @ 4:20 am

  202. My dad, Tom Cornwell, was in the Army Intelligence unit there around 68-71, if any one remembers him….he then went on to Vietnam. I just remember hearing stories of Holabird as a kid.

    Comment by Maria — December 23, 2009 @ 12:11 pm

  203. Hi all, Immediately after my basic training at Fort Knox, I spent the spring of 1966 at Fort Holabird training for a 96B20 MOS. Like everyone else, I soon began to wonder just what this military was all about. The two duty stations couldn’t have been more different. My memory of that time in my life is not too good except I do recall the drinking at the 123 club and the bus trips to DC almost every weekend. I also recall the food served in the mess hall being very good, the varied type of military personel constantly buzzing all over the post, and the distinct oder and color of Colgate Creek. I ended up serving in the 519th MI Bn at Tan Son Nhut Airbase from July 66 to July 67. I love reading the comments herein and god bless each and every one of you.

    Comment by Ross Morgan — December 29, 2009 @ 2:13 pm

  204. Happy New Year to all.

    A terrific website!!!

    My father was stationed, twice, at Fort Holabird, befroe and after Korea.

    We lived in nearby Dundalk.

    I remember Sunday School, Church, picnics etc. at the Fort; all the while having no idea what my father, or anybody, actually did there.

    Great memories.

    Thank you,


    Comment by Bob Bartles — January 6, 2010 @ 2:20 am

  205. Bob Bartles,

    Neither did we.


    Comment by manny — January 6, 2010 @ 5:58 pm

  206. This is a great site and brought back many happy memories. I arrived at The Bird from Dix on September 10, 1954. After a couple of months shuffling papers in Stuttgart I was assigned to Region XII (Kaiserslautern), where I worked with a great bunch of guys, explored the most beautiful part of Germany, and drank the best wines in the world. Those were the best years of my life. I’d like to hear from anybody who was at The Bird at that time or stationed in Kaiserslautern at any time.

    Comment by Myron Johnston — January 8, 2010 @ 8:22 pm

  207. I graduated from CIC school at Ft. Holabird in the winter of 1952. Out of my graduating class of some 50 students, five of us were assigned to the far east. I wound up at CIC headquarters in Sapporo, Hokkaido, Japan. Was discharged in April, 1953.

    Comment by Robert Livesay — January 9, 2010 @ 1:14 pm

  208. I joined the army at the end of April 1966 and took basic at Ft. Polk. I arrived at Ft. Holabird in August and attended the Coordinator course (97D20). I remember the huge parade field in front of the large barracks building. The MPs would fire the pack howitzer at raising and lowering of the flag and made sure to check the bore to make sure that no one stuffed a roll of toilet paper in it. I still have a picture of myself standing next to the gold plated sphynx.

    Upon graduation, two of us went to Korea and the rest went to Vietnam. I spent the best year of my life at Company B, 502d MI Bn at Tracy Compound (Liaison Office) in Seoul.

    I was reassigned to the 113th MI Group headquarters at Ft. Sheridan (Illinois). As it was 90 miles from home, I couldn’t complain. I finished out my enlistment there in April of 1969.

    In one of the comments from the 1990’s, Jerry Race mentioned that he was there at the same time. If he checks this site or anyone knows where he is I would like to contact him. (mondana47@hotmail.com)

    The comments here have brought back many memories. Thanks, Dan

    Comment by Dan Rundell — January 14, 2010 @ 12:01 am

  209. My father Sgt. Joseph Lorusso was stationed on base around 1966-1970. We lived in officers housing. It was a square neighborhood with a playground in the middle.
    I remember visiting soldiers and watching them shoot pool. My father was married and had 10 childern. I would love to hear from anybody that remembers him.
    My email is : Soupersalad13@aol.com
    Iam not sure what his job was. We moved to Pa. in 1971
    when I was 7 years old.
    I do remember an officer Sgt. Jim mcCann.
    I do remember eating at Sqiure’s. We did visit through the years. If I remember correctly the owner/wife is named Toots or Tootise. My father passed away in 1987 and buried at Arlington. I loved reading everyones comments and memories. God Bless..
    Army brat,
    Angie Lorusso

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — January 14, 2010 @ 8:31 pm

  210. P.S to comment #209

    we lived on College Ave.

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — January 15, 2010 @ 8:14 pm

  211. colgate ave. NOT college ave. (sorry)

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — January 15, 2010 @ 8:57 pm

  212. After attending basic at Ft Polk I arrived at Ft Holabird in May/June 1966 attending the CI agent course. My first assignment was the LA Field Office, 115th MI Group, commanded by LTC Sueda. May first boss was CWO Cheeks(PSI Team 1) followed by CW0 Bob Jenkins(SI Team 5). I subsequently was assigned to the 511th MI Company in Germany and later went to MACV Tm 42, Binh Dinh Province, Vietnam. After many more assignments I retired in 1990 as a CW4.

    Post #190(Richard Duarte) I rememeber you from LA.

    Post #202(Maria) I served with Tom Cornwell, but I just can’t remember where.

    Comment by Ed Harris — January 17, 2010 @ 6:52 pm

  213. Arrived at the Bird in Jan 1962 for agent training. Spent lots of time at the Acropolis on the dock, Slim Browns bar and the Holabird Inn. Managed to get in tight with the assignments Sgt and was sent back home to the 113thINTC Rgn 5 in St. Louis. Still have memories of the mandory Parade on saturdays, and being required to get a haircut every week. Was in the office in the Mart bldg when Kennedy was shot. What a mess. Would love to hear from anyone that remembers me.

    Comment by Norman Minshall — January 17, 2010 @ 9:39 pm

  214. email normm1@charter.net hoping the hear from someone

    Comment by Norman Minshall — January 17, 2010 @ 9:41 pm

  215. I went from Ft. Gordon, GA (Basic Training) to Ft. Holabird in November, 1969. I was trained as a 96D2T (Image Interpreter) and was sent to Viet Nam right after graduation in the spring of 1970. I was assigned to the 172nd MI Det with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in II Corp (Central Highlands) stationed at LZ English where I spent the year on flight status shooting my own aerial photography, making mosaics, forward observing for artillery and going on extended flights ‘over the borders’ on Mohawk camera planes. I would love to hear from anyone who was there with me!

    Comment by Bill Harrison — January 21, 2010 @ 9:33 pm

  216. Went through the “Bird” in the Fall-Winter of 68-69. Holabird was a great place. It was a well kept neatly trimmed college type campus. Wish there were more pictures. During those years the school was jammed packed with students from all over the U-S and the planet. The instructors were super,a who’s who of the I-community. Spent the next several years at the IG Farben working with some of America’s best.

    Comment by RF — January 29, 2010 @ 9:06 am

  217. Taps for one of our own, J.D. Salinger (WWII CIC).

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 30, 2010 @ 2:58 pm

  218. I too stumbled on to this great site. Never thought about how blessed we all were to land at the smelly Fort in Dundalk MD. Arrived April 69 from Knox via air to Dulles and bus to Dundalk. A month later started 97B class after a few interesting work assignments. Got to do KP and after breaking out in the worst case of prickly heat I decided to try something different if possible. Had made friends with Steve from Hammond IN who got me a job as CQ where everyone checked in. On 24 off 48. In the middle of the night I was vacuuming the CO,s office and the machine quit. I took it apart to repair it and was literally covered with dirt and grime when the OIC came in the office on his rounds. When his aid came in and shouted “attention” it literally scared the crap out of me. I managed to jump to attention and salute the officer. He was kind of a prankster himself and took one look at me and laughed and said he was glad to see that sombody was working at that hour.
    Started class soon after and it was just like going to college. Had the PM Class so no early rises and that was good. My wife, 2 year old son and I lived at Chesapeake Bay Apartmments as far East of the fort as we could go. Great memories of Crabing on the bay. Assigned to 113th MI CFO out of school and then transfered to Carbondale Field Office (30 miles from home). Lived in our own house until they relocated me to the 502nd in Seoul Korea Tracey Compound. Couldn’t figure out why as I was working my butt off there. Later when I met up with the 20 other Holibird grads at Ft Lewis we figured out that we had all been doing some civilian observation that had been unappreciated by congress. Got to Seoul on Dec 21, 1970 a Merry Xmas from Uncle Sam. Sat on my butt for several months before getting an early out to come home to farm. Met some real characters at Holabird and in Korea. People wouldn’t believe the things we got to do. As you can tell a great number of memories have reappeared because of this website. Thanks

    Comment by Terry Clark — February 2, 2010 @ 2:42 am

  219. Ed Harris: I almost jumped when I read you served with my father – I will pass along that information to my brothers, they’ll be thrilled. Thank you!

    Comment by Maria — February 8, 2010 @ 2:28 pm


    Comment by GEORGE KRISKO — February 10, 2010 @ 6:01 am


    Comment by GEORGE KRISKO — February 10, 2010 @ 6:18 am

  222. Took Basic Agent course Nov61-Feb62; stationed 108th INTC Group, New York Feb62-May63; Security Service Detachment, Ft. Amador, Canal Zone Jun63-Jun64; looking to connect with agents Dale Campbell (went to Korea in ’63) & Tad Bartlett of Manhattan field office; Harry Jennings Bryan at Amador


    Comment by howard crise — February 10, 2010 @ 5:14 pm

  223. From Nov. 1968 to April 1969 attended 97B school at Holabird. Had a blast. School was good, as was the food. Remember sitting in the lounge and watching Joe Namath beat the Colts. Probably the only one not rooting for the Home Team. Actually treated us with respect, maybe because we were the ‘spooks’. Had a ball in Baltinore and DC. Only one in my class that didn’t have a 4 year degree. When orders came, I was the only one to RVN. Assigned to a special ops unit with the 1st ARVN Div in Hue. All the rest went to Korea. Have a lot of fond memories of Holabird and the men in my class. They were all smart guys…..Hope they all lived a good life.

    Comment by Wes Lorenz — February 11, 2010 @ 9:31 am

  224. We lived on post when my father, Col. Gerald Duin, was stationed at Holabird ’56 to’58. Gen. Prather was the post CO. As a dependent, I went to Eastern High School; the boys went to City College. During that time, there was an instructor named Betty MacDougall whose daughter, Jill, was my best friend. Mrs. MacDougall’s husband had been killed on a golf course a few years earlier, and she later married an officer named Mclaren. Does anyone remember any of these people? Except for a mention of Gen. Prather, there seems to be a lack of information about that time period.
    When I was there, there was a sports store right outside post across Holabird Ave (I think) where we used to see Johnny Unitas hanging out.
    This is a great site. Thanks!

    Comment by Ingrid Richardson nee Duin — February 14, 2010 @ 7:40 pm

  225. Wes Lorenz, was your brother at the Bird before you?

    Comment by Bill Leach — February 15, 2010 @ 1:23 am

  226. To Bill Leach…
    No, no brother before me. Went there right out of Ft. Dix. Remember I was able to sneak my car onto Ft. Dix during basic training. Figured I could just jump into it after basic and drive to Baltimore. Not quite..they threw me on the bus and off I went. When I checked in @ Holabird, I told my Sgt. about my predicament and he gave me a ride to the bus station where I got a ride back to Dix to get my car. Made it back to Holibird before morning formation. Had a friend going to Georgetown University at the time and almost every weekend I went to DC and had a blast. He lived in a large house with about 10 other guys. The place was always crawling with girls. Sure hated to leave Holabird……

    Comment by Wes Lorenz — February 17, 2010 @ 9:19 am

  227. To Wes Lorenz,
    To Wes Lorenz,

    I was stationed at Holabird from Oct 65 – Jun 68. While there, my cubicle mate was Frank(I think) Lorenz. With the spelling, I thought maybe you were related. I don’t remember what Frank did. (it was over 40 years ago) but he was a good guy.

    I worked at the S-2 and we issued all the security clearances for the students and permanent party at the school. It was a great job at a great post. If I could have spent 30 years there, I would have been a lifer.

    Comment by Bill — February 17, 2010 @ 8:31 pm

  228. I first arrived at Ft. Holabird in Sep 67 for the 97B course. I was an SSG direct from the 172 Inf Bde, Ft. Richardson, AK. Wonderful time at Ft. Holabird. I was married and lived in Essex. From there I went to Region IV, 113th MI Group, Denver, CO for 10 months, including either two or three weeks in Chicago after Martin Luther King’s death, prior to joining the 101st MI Det, 101st Air Born Division, Hue (LZ Sally), Vietnam. Got out of Vietnam safe and eventually retired after two tours in Germany and an assignment with DIS in St Louis, MO.

    Comment by Brace Barber — February 21, 2010 @ 7:29 pm

  229. Brace,

    What exactly does DIS stand for?


    Comment by manny — February 22, 2010 @ 7:36 pm

  230. DIS stands for Defense Investigative Service. DIS came into being in 1973, replacing the services of the responsibility for background investigations for DOD.

    Comment by Ed Harris — February 24, 2010 @ 9:12 pm

  231. Brace,



    Comment by manny — February 26, 2010 @ 7:40 pm

  232. Ed,

    Whoops, sorry.

    Comment by manny — February 26, 2010 @ 7:41 pm

  233. Great website. Incredible memories and how fast time goes by. Would Like to here from those who went through Holabird Sept 1967-February 1968, then sent to the 502nd MI Battalion in Korea. No one on the message board so far except Dan Rundell who was a year ahead of me in that process knows what that experience was like. I know others shared it ..

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 2, 2010 @ 2:26 pm

  234. Daryl, I was at the 502nd from Sept 66 until arround March or April of 68. Your name sounds very familiar.

    Comment by Steve Bostick — March 3, 2010 @ 12:15 pm

  235. Steve,
    Left Holabird in Jan 1968 and arrived in Comp.B, 502nd MI., Tracy Compound, Seoul, in Feb 1968. We may have overlapped a bit.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — March 3, 2010 @ 1:01 pm

  236. Steve,
    I arrived at Company B during Oct. 1966 (I think-been a long time) and was assigned to LIAISON, which was run by Donald Fox (civilian/ex army intell NCO). I lived in the hooch right next to the Mess Hall. I was a “Coordinator”-97D20.
    Some of the names I remember are George Koopman, Ralph Stein, Steve Dobrowolski, John Smart, Colonel Russell Cogar, and Chubby Kim(one of our Korean interpeters and a good poker player).
    Which office did you work in?

    Comment by Dan Rundell — March 4, 2010 @ 12:38 am

  237. When I left the Bird I first went to Offut Air Force Base to school for II then on to the 502nd. I worked for Brig. Gen. Brooks (Air Force) at the USSSD build. behind 8th Army G2 I worked with these guys almost daily. Some of the guys I remember are Al Bridges, Jon Tallman, John (red) Miller, Ed Kerr, Louie Domerese, Lynwood Fisher, Pop Atchley, Maj. Ware, Capt. Kirby, Capt. Paula Jenkins,1SG Groosman, and most important Mr. Song (bartender at the NCO club I think we called it the Hilltop Club

    Comment by Steve Bostick — March 4, 2010 @ 11:29 am

  238. It’s great to see this site still alive! Facebook has a page now looking for alumni. I took the 96B20 course from August to October 1968. Arrived on base in July and had to wait for my class to start. Got assigned to permanent KP as a cooks helper. A civilian guy. It was not bad duty. Sort of liked it. Making like 40 gallons of soup at a time. Well about a week before my class was to start, the Mess Hall Major asks me and the cook into his office. The Major wants to send me to cooks school, because I was a “natural”. I just look at this guy, and say Thank you major. I have enjoyed my time working for you, but I have my heart set on being James Bond! When our class had its turn for KP, I was assigned to help the cook again. Colgate Creek and the bouncing bridge…..Harleys and the Holabird Inn….Stepenwolf..Born to be wild. As luck would have it; the class after us got there orders before us. They went to hawaii, we went to ‘Nam. Ended up in I Corp..3rd Marine Division G2/G5 with 7th Psyop in DongHa. Then back to Fort George G. Meade. Looking back now, I wished I had stayed in.

    Comment by Pasquale Vallese — March 4, 2010 @ 12:36 pm

  239. Just remembered, we were assigned to 525 MI group in Saigon, but our plane broke down in Anchorage. We were stuck there over night. By the time we got thru the Phillipines, into ‘Nam, they had given away our assignments. Sent out to Saigon, then Danang, then Quang Tri, and finally Dong Ha. So much for an office job working with Westmoreland!!

    Comment by Pasquale Vallese — March 4, 2010 @ 12:50 pm

  240. What a great site…lots of memories here. I was in the MI Special Agent course in the fall of 1967, direct our of basic training at Ft. Gordon, GA, and went on to a one-year course in Vietnamese at Ft. Bliss. After that, spent most of my time in Viet-Nam as an agent handler with the 635th MID, Team 2 attached to the 196th LIB. I was also liaison to MACV folks in Tam Ky. Discharged in Jan.’70.
    Stopped by the Ft. twice since leaving the service — once in the early 80’s, I believe, and the last time a few years ago. On the first visit, I found a sign that used to hang over the gate to Holabird Ave., “You are now entering the most dangerous place on earth — an American highway.” The guard wouldn’t let me take it — she had no sense of history or humor. The second time there, the only signs of the fort were the old officers club (now a VVA chapter), the metal bridge and part of the “stairs to nowhere” near the oval track.
    — Bill Pritchard

    Comment by Bill Pritchard — March 7, 2010 @ 8:40 pm

  241. Pasquale (#239) My flight was also delayed overnight in Anchorage enroute to RVN. They put us up at the Anchorage Westward Hotel. That was in July 1971. Then arrived in country and assigned to 3rd Battalion 525th MI Group in Ben Hoa. Is that the same time you went over?

    Comment by Steve Schein — March 8, 2010 @ 5:28 pm

  242. Steve(241). We had the break down in November of ’68. We were in our Summer short sleeves, when we were removed from the plane and assigned rooms. They gave us $10 for breakfast, and I had to spend like $5 of my own, just to get 2 eggs, bacon, toast and coffee.
    If Bill Pritchard reads this…your name sounds so familar. Were you ever at Ft. Meade, or did I know you from Holabird. Facebook has a couple of pages trying to get started, for those who use facebook.
    Code name Poncho.

    Comment by Pasquale Vallese — March 8, 2010 @ 11:54 pm

  243. What a great site! I was a student at the Bird from Sept. 65 to Jan.66 (97D) and From Jan. 68 to May 68. The above comments brought back great memories. Does anyone remember a WAC by the name of Mary Tillman? I would love to get in touch with her, any one who remembers me.

    Comment by Bill Morrissey — March 10, 2010 @ 6:11 am

  244. Any one who remembers Mary Tillman can get in touch with me at marynbillm@aol.com I am also interested in John Farley, or Geroge Kirby. This is one of the most intersting sites concerning persons that were in the MI community. Bill Morrissey

    Comment by Bill Morrissey — March 11, 2010 @ 1:46 pm

  245. when i enlisted my reruiter was going over all these choices. none seemed to fit until he said he never recruited anyone for ais. allow me to be the first, he knew nothing and was all i needed to hear. ft knox next orders for holabird were posted 5th wk of basic=”duties as commander may direct”. i arrived sept 64 and was assigned to 97d training. halfway thru they offered perm party at holabird. i was from 90 miles from there,just married after basic and already saw the advantages fo duty at “the bird”. so i accepted and immediately arranged housing at essexshire gate apts. upon completion of the course i was assigned to dept of area studies. job title=asst instructor and while i had a lot of interaction with future agent handlers in many ways, 75% of my time and effort was overseeing the vault in das where the documents were kept and controlling distribution of said documents. i spent my entire 3 yr enlistment less basic at holabird. as such i can appreciate more than most what a unique pleasurable experience. for which i say thank you to the recruiter that knew nothing. it was already known that a future move to arizona was impending otherwise i may have reupped with the hope of a 20 year assignment to holabird, as realistic as that may sound. but alas i knew it was not to be. now as i approach 65 and my retirement for selling insurance arrives 103110 i look back on the place and people that laid the foundation for the rest of my life and say those three years from 0964 to 070467 were some of the best of my life frank stella

    Comment by frank stella — March 11, 2010 @ 6:03 pm

  246. I was in class B-2, 1948. Went from there to 66th CIC, Germany. Later to 115th CIC, Spokane Field Office. That has been one heck of a long time back. JFN

    Comment by John F. Nisley — March 22, 2010 @ 2:34 pm

  247. I was a student at Dlundalk University in 1948, Class B2. Since then I went the the Language School, at Monterey, CA. Two tours in Germany and one in Korea.
    Stateside I spent my time in Washington State. Those were good times and I miss them but dream about them a lot. JFN

    Comment by John F. Nisley — March 22, 2010 @ 4:25 pm

  248. Attended Ft. Holabird 1967 Intel Analyst. Graduated 2nd in class of 65. Ended up as Ch, Intel Br, Mil Intel Div, G2, Hq, 8th Army in June 1967.

    Chuck Searcy was in same class, Bob Orr.

    Comment by Bob Liskey — March 23, 2010 @ 11:33 pm

  249. Hi Everyone,

    Basic in Fort Jackson, June 65, then onto the Bird sometime in September, 96B20, went through all courses, DAME, DASE, Interrogation POW, was on the night shift, 12-6am, out of our class of 50, one got kicked out, 2 went to Redstone, two went to NAC center, actually on the post, and the balance to Nam. I was one of the lucky one’s, I stayed at the Bird. Great duty, five of us, 2000 civvies, mostly girls. Just one small story, a few of us, and a few good Beret frinds went down to Baltimore to have a 1000 drinks, beat up about 100 hippies, made the Sun’s headlines, (Naturally) but will always remember our punishement, stood in front of the General, (Townsend) and all he said was you did a GREAT job, next time do a better one, kill those bastards. Loved that guy.
    Lots more stories although mind is slippin a bit, but if anyone remembers me, love to hear from you. I also registered the domain; USAINTS.COM will build a nice site, could use your input.

    Nick Nolter


    Could also use some info if any of you went through “Area Studies”

    Comment by Nick Nolter — March 30, 2010 @ 4:42 pm

  250. Attended Intell School at Fort Holibird in 1971, looking for perm personnel (WAC) with the first name of Ivy.

    Comment by Star Lewis — April 2, 2010 @ 11:30 pm

  251. Love the stories and memories.

    Comment by John — April 9, 2010 @ 12:47 pm

  252. John(#271),

    What is yours?

    Comment by manny — April 9, 2010 @ 2:13 pm

  253. In the fall of 1967, while waiting for classes to start we spent several months doing Casual Duty and living next to a barracks of WACs. That was interesting. One casual duty was weekly (Wednesday) pillow and bed sheet collection from the school dorms. We rapped up 25 sheets per bundle and filled a truck with bundles to take to the Fort laundry, a large facility. There, since there was not much else to do, we would sack out on the huge piles of sheet bundles drinking coffee all morning until someone could figure out what to do next. I was young and had not much coffee drinking experience.

    Fort Holabird is where I learned to drink coffee (addicted) and probably why I ended up in Seattle the coffee drinking (Starbucks) capital of the world.

    I neglected to mention that I learned to drink whiskey in the evenings there, so I owe Fort Holabird a lot on forming my lifelong choice of beverages.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 16, 2010 @ 5:24 pm

  254. I arrived in late Oct 66 FROM Dix and like all of you, thought the Army had made a mistake. This could’nt be an Army post!! Went to 96B training and then to Ft Bragg awaiting shipment to VN. Came back again after VN for 96C. They goofed and thought I was going to re-up, otherwise I would have rotted at Ft Bragg waiting to get out. However, my duty at Holabird was very pleasant both times I was there. If you think it was good as a pvt, you should have been there as a student SGT. I had the world by the balls then. Even officers would say please and thank you. Spent as much time at the Holabird Inn as I did in class. Until I talked to someone from Baltimore, I thought Hamburgers was a restaurant.(clothing store) Do you remember we would pass underneath it every time we went downtown. (to the BLOCK)God it was great to be young !!

    Comment by Jim Smith — April 20, 2010 @ 10:14 am

  255. Sorry I didn’t stumble on this websiste sooner. Like many others, my arrival at the ‘Bird was a complete shock. I got there just after Easter in 1956 after a less than delightful eight week plus tour at Ft Dix. I recall that it was raining and my raincoat was somewhere in my barracks bag. As I got out of the taxi an older soldier approached and told me to be sure and get a receipt from the taxi driver, He then pick up my bag and led me into what turned out to be his office. When he took off his raincoat I could see that he was a Master Sgt. He must have seen the expression on my face as he remarked that I wasn’t in Basic any more and could expect to be treated like a human being. After signing in he took me over to the reception barracks and told me to pick a bunk. There was a bunch of guys already there, and we started to introduce ourselves. It turned out that several of us had mutual friends and fraternity brothers. I remember some names,ie. Bill Mattox, Moose Mitchel Beau Scott and John Donahue to name a few. With nothing to do we soon found the EM club and had a few beers. That was the first of many parties to follow in the next 16 weeks. We all wanted to go to agent school, but the army needed analyst that day so we became 971.3s
    You could tell the way the wind was blowing by the smells you encountered when you fellout in the AM. About the second week we were there, our platoon sgt, Jack Reilly took several of us to Baltimore for a tour of Easst Baltimore Street. Having lead very sheltered lives up until then. we were like little boys at the circus. There was a minimum amount of Mickey Mouse (CS) like Saturday AM inspections and Friday Retreat Parades. We all felt a little resentful at having to salute anyh car with an officer sticker on the bumper, even if it was being driven by a wife or daughter. We went to great lengths to avoid doing this. I remember a few funny incidents, but I will save them for another time. Bill Mattox, Bob Ruby,Dave Good, Don Grey and I ended up on the USNS Upsure going to Munich Germany and the 66 CIC. Beau Scott went to Japan. To make sure that the Army system of assignment held true, the three guys in the class that spoke fluent German were also sent to Japan. I have great memories of my two years in the CIC,and will share them at another time. My college roomate and fraternity brother ,Don Brown, was Clerk of the Works for the school at the time. He got there before me and was permanent party. I haven’t heard from him in 50 years, but would love to. Ed Delehanty ed-gail@juno.com

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — April 20, 2010 @ 4:50 pm

  256. Hello all. I arrived at Ft Holabird, from Ft Dix, in October or November of 1969. Started the 97D20 Course in Late November or Early December. By that time the “casual company” had been designated “C” Company and things were beginning to get more “Army”. They had started an NCO school, the “casuals” were being used to build asphalt sidewalks, that sort of thing. But I made the move to the “big building” and avoided the worst of it. I will remember that chain bridge to the day I die. That sign that stated “Break step going over bridge” must have been the most ignored command in the US Army. While a casual I remember being used as a “border guard” on a 97C exfiltration exercise at Sparrows Point. The ones we caught were interrogated in the old powder magazines of Fort Howard. Left in Feb or March 1970 for the 902d in Falls Church, VA. Then on to 702d MID in Long Bihn in March 1971. Took the Agent Course at Huachuca in April or May 1972. Joseph Bandiera “Peter Poor” had moved out there with the school and I am proud to say, completely resisted my efforts at interrogation in the “Fish Bowl”. Great Site. It is really good to hear from folks who were there. Through the years you sort of quit talking about Holabird, because you know no one will believe you.

    Comment by Farrell Tucker — April 21, 2010 @ 11:57 pm

  257. In 1956, we lived in wooden barracks. I remember the big brick headquaarters and my old college roomate lived there. I think there was a beer hall there too. Everybody seems to know of the old chain bridge, but I cannot place it. We were off weekends unless you had KP. I only had it once and was pissed off because I had learned I was shipping out to Germany shortly and wanted to get home to see my folks before I left. I did manage to do that a week or two later. In fact I got a ride to White Plains from our CO Jack Moran. Iam trying to remember the nome of the school First Soldier. He was a short stocky guy usually with a cigar in his mouth. He turned out to be a pretty good guy. Boniface Campbell was GIC. I think he was responsible for the Friday afternoon retreat parades.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — April 22, 2010 @ 9:52 am

  258. Hey, Bostick, how about John B. Sherman (P&O, G2, EUSA), Tom Mullaney (Intel Br, G2, EUSA), Bubba Lewis (MI Div, G2, EUSA), Neil O’Leary (OB Br, G2, EUSA), John Benkert (MI Div, G2), Bruce K. Grant (Civilian former agent handler 502d), McTaggart, LTC Martin (Ch, MI Div, G2, EUSA), LTC Sam Basille (prior Ch, MI, G2, EUSA), LT Tim Lewis (Ch, OB Br, G2, EUSA), LT Ken Chisolm, LT Stuart, Jim Houseman (Civilian Affairs, G2, EUSA), Richard MIller (Intel Br, MI DIv, EUSA assigned from 502d), SGT MAJOR Robertson (G2, EUSA), George Vukovich (MSG CTR, G2, EUSA), SGT Youngblood (MSG CTR, G2, EUSA), COL COURIS (USASSD), ….Some others on tip of beling remembered but mind not as sharp as it use to be.

    Comment by Bob Liskey — April 23, 2010 @ 10:28 am

  259. Thorpe (KMAG)

    Comment by Bob Liskey — April 23, 2010 @ 10:29 am

  260. Bob, none of these names jump out at me except Thorpe was he a 1LT but the more I think about it a Cpt. My memory is pretty much shot.

    Comment by Steve Bostick — April 23, 2010 @ 8:05 pm

  261. Steve(#260),

    Kind of funny how most of our memories are “pretty much shot” except for bits and pieces of Holabird. Still can’t figure out why?


    Comment by manny — April 27, 2010 @ 8:51 am

  262. Manny,

    I think it might have something to do with all the “good” memories. I haven’t read any “bad” memories on this site. Holabird was so different from what we all expected when we got there whether from basic training or another duty station. I know I spent 3 great years there and have a ton of memories, almost all good. I just wish I could find more photos of the post. It is almost like it didn’t exist. I have a 8mm home movie, about 2 or 3 minutes long but it is very grainy and not much detail.


    Comment by Bill — April 27, 2010 @ 11:28 pm

  263. Bill,

    Might be interesting to post it on YOU TUBE.


    Comment by manny — April 28, 2010 @ 12:23 pm

  264. Fort Holabird Photos:
    There is now a “Fort Holabird” Facebook page where photos can be attached. There are also three very good books with pictures of the BIRD, 1950s, 60s, early 70s. The books are part of the Army Lineage Series, written by John Patrick Finnegan. They can be purchased on the inter net and can be found at some libraries. The first book is “Military Intelligence” 437 pages. There’s also “Military Intelligence A Picture History”,195 pages and “The Military Intelligence Story, A Photographic History”, 153 pages. There are a few Fort Holabird photos in all three books and the CIC-MI history is a nice read.

    Comment by RF — April 28, 2010 @ 1:28 pm

  265. Like a lot of other poster – arriving at Holabird was a eyeopener. Went to Bragg for basic Feb 67. Arrived at Holabird in Apr-May 67. Class date was for Jun 67, Casual till class. Remember a Sgt Adank as part of reception group. Good guy once you got to know him. After class ended was set to go to OCS. This was cancelled because of lack of degrees. About 9-10 got order for RVN. Went home to Va before leaving. But got a call from the Pentagon recinding order to RVN – back to Bird. Went to work in MIOAC as clerical. LTC Preston Davis was the OIC. Remember a Cpt Stackman. Harry Bressler – Staff Sgt from Johnstown Pa. Finally got order for OCS. Problem was that I was not going back to MI but to Inf. Thought that was not a good idea for 1968. Thought about it for 2-3 minutes. Turned down. Next orders for RVN May 68. Assigned to 525 MI then to 55Th MID in Nha Trang at IFFV. Was in Kontum when I ran into classmates fron Bird on way home. Ended up extending for a addition four months to get an early out. Wanted to go back to college in fall but missed but 10 days. Got home Sep 69. Met a lot of great people at the Bird . Wish that I had note full names and Hometown. What a difference from basic. Was treated like a regualar human being by Superiors ant the Bird. I feel that part of the success that I have ahd in life is do to there influence . My extention was supposed to keep me in Nha Trang but ended up with Task Force South in Dalat then Phan Thiet at LZ Betty . Thanks for reading. John Doyle

    Comment by John Doyle — April 28, 2010 @ 1:30 pm

  266. Manny, I will try to get the film posted (I will have to ask my kids to help me).I will have to find it first. It might take a few days. I’ll let you know when (if) it happens.

    Comment by Bill — April 28, 2010 @ 11:53 pm

  267. Bill,

    Thanks and let me know the site.


    Comment by manny — April 29, 2010 @ 4:55 pm

  268. Anybody remember George Gilmore? He was Assignment Officer at the ‘Bird sometime during the 60s. I served with him and his wife Betty in the 66th Field Office in Munich.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — April 30, 2010 @ 3:49 pm

  269. Manny, I finally got the 8mm movie posted on YouTube. Just put in Fort Holabird in the search box. The first 17 seconds are blank but then it runs for about 4 minutes. It is a little grainy and turn down the sound so you won’t hear the annoying clicking of the old movie projector. Enjoy.

    I think I took this in 1967. It is about 4 min. long. Turn down the volume so you won’t hear the annoying sound of the old 8mm film projector. What I remember:

    Post Chapel

    Post Library

    Movie Theater

    Students Barracks/Parade Grounds (Note the train moving in the background)

    Colgate Creek (hold your nose)

    School Building

    Test track/ball field


    Colgate Creek again

    Post Dispensary

    A friend, Gary

    Old Tank/Jeep Test Track

    Headquarters USAINTC with Gary and the Sphinx (which is which)?

    Old wooden trestle going over Dundalk Ave and through the post

    Old PX

    Permanent Party Barracks

    Main gate and Main Street

    My nieces and nephews for about two seconds..

    Sorry for the long post

    Comment by Bill — May 1, 2010 @ 7:17 pm

  270. Thanks Bill…..the 8mm home movie brought back some memories…I was surprised how much stuff I did not remember………..Thanks again for taking the time. You should post it to the facebook Holabird page.

    Comment by Pasquale Vallese — May 3, 2010 @ 4:51 pm

  271. Hi Manny,I will.
    It brought back many memories for me too. I hadn’t watched it for a while. It was a great place to spend 3 years.

    Comment by Bill — May 3, 2010 @ 6:56 pm

  272. Manny, I tried to post it on Facebook, it said it was too big and it didn’t support that type of file (??) I left instructions to view it on YouTube.

    Comment by Bill — May 3, 2010 @ 11:58 pm

  273. Thanks to Bill Leach who worked for me in 1965 for this link, and also for his 4 minute Oscar winning movie.
    It as a cool and foggy day when I emerged from the Harbor tunnel in May 1959 and took a right on Holabird Avenue. What a dreary area I thought. After checking in and settling, and hungry, I drove back west, then north, then west again on EAstern Avenue. After passing by Patterson Park and through that section of the city, I thought to myself, “Is this all there is to Baltimore?” Only later did I finally get downtown!

    Quite memorable was the situation of the Bird. When the wind blew from the west, you could smell Lever Brothers soap factory. if the wind was from the South, the Fleishmann’s yeast factory. But… from the east? Baltimore’s sewage facility.

    Yes, I remember General Prather. Was he succeeded by a General Coverdell? The Sphinx! ah yes, it’s motto, same for Intelligence corp, “Ask me no questions and I’ll tell you no lies.”

    Attended a short 5 week course of orientation and then the photo interpretation course, leaving about November of that year for Ft Bragg and the old 519th.
    Anything was better than Bragg, so signed up for Russian language at Monterey, CA and after that back to the Bird in October 1961 (the Berlin wall had just gone up) for 9668 training. Someone mentioned the Fort which is Fort Howard. That was where we landed one cold and snowy night in order to “infiltrate” and check out our targets.
    anyone remember the Brentwood Inn with it’s wine cellar? Someone did mention Haussner’s a favorite place of mine with it’s art on the walls.

    after that off to Germany for three and half years, but back to the Bird September 1965. And that is where I met Bill Leach and his buddy Nesbitt who worked for me in the S2 shop of Troop Command (Col Wimberley was CO).

    After that it was ‘Nam as an advisor to Vietnamese National Police in Saigon. Our little shop later achieved infamy as Operation Phoenix.

    Sigh! Thanks for the memories.

    (email is hlunsford@bellsouth.net)

    Comment by Harlan Lunsford — May 4, 2010 @ 4:28 pm

  274. Bill,

    Thanks for posting the film. Just finished watching it. Boy, so much one doesn’t remember.


    Comment by manny — May 5, 2010 @ 10:18 am

  275. I posted here last year. Found some paperwork from Holabird recently….all original. Some names to ponder (last only): Raycraft, Van Burk, Biegelow, Blemker, Coomes, Davis, Diamond, Dickinson, Dignan, Garner, Getter, Gody, Gorsky, Hofmann, Kunkler, Luehrs, McNichols, Murphy, Nielson, Ommen, Palmquist, Roeder, Smith, Stemme, Talerico, Trader and York. Orders dated 23 June 1967. FYI…any names ring a bell? Ron Mahinske

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — May 5, 2010 @ 5:39 pm

  276. thanks for this post mate. hope you have a good day. thanks. 🙂

    Comment by mike milton — May 6, 2010 @ 9:18 am

  277. I posted a few pictures on FaceBook – Fort Holabird.

    Comment by Bill — May 6, 2010 @ 9:36 am

  278. There’s gotta be a few guys besides me who were there in 1956. I kow I’m getting old, but I can still walk and talk.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — May 10, 2010 @ 9:31 am

  279. Ed #278),

    Some of us were there in ’56. Where you Permanent Party?


    Comment by manny — May 10, 2010 @ 5:02 pm

  280. No Was in a class. My college roomate Don Brown was Permanent party. He was School Clerk of the Works. My class started around the first part of April and ended about the middle of June. Shipped out and ended up in Munich arount the First of July. I remember a Lt. by the name of Jack Moran was our CO at the school.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — May 11, 2010 @ 3:24 pm

  281. Ed,

    What was “school clerk of the works?” The works stymies me. Nor does Don Brown ring a bell. We had a clerk named Don Davis (law degree from University of North Carolina and a pfc) and a Don Redddick, an undertaker from Washington, D.C and also a clerk, place unknown.


    Comment by manny — May 12, 2010 @ 11:38 am

  282. Clerk of the Works just an expression. Don Brown was Company Clerk for the School, or so he told me. Come to think of it, there may have been more than one school going on at the time I think he was clerk for the school for agents and analyists. 10 years later, my brother Steve went through the school. He ended up in ‘Nam. When he came back he got on the faculty and taught servailance. He would bring the class up to White Plains where my family lived at the time and do a problem. He enlistsed my mother to stand on the corner with a newspaper under her arm etc. etc. They made her an honorary member of the Ft Holabird faculty, with an official certificate presented by some Major or Col with the appropriate cermony in her dining room where she would feed the class after the problem.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — May 13, 2010 @ 12:52 pm

  283. Thanks for the memories, I was at Ft Holabird in 1969 from March-May taking an Intelligence Analyst course. We had some great Marines in our class as well, and one weekend we got into a brawl on the softball field playing members of another class. I remember the gritty sports bars in the area, going to Pimlico, seeing the Orioles, going to a Jimi Hendrix concert, the EM club and the famous pig sisters.

    Next stop, Vietnam.

    Regards to all. LK

    Comment by Laudizen King — May 15, 2010 @ 5:52 pm

  284. when i was graduated col rutledge was director of instruction and col elvin dalton and lt col thomas hessler were my bosses as commander and asst of das during my 3 yrs there also remember ssgt ken sawai head nco major joe eng, security officer, w/o peterson, had a different joke every day civilian employee and reserve general bellin, we used to bowl during lunch hour, majot ted switty, air force and close friend. during some lunch hours all of us including the colonels would play volleyball together. all gentlemen and a pleasure to work for and with. sorry for the many others not mentioned but it would be too long a post. get more of you named next time. some of you that trained w d/as will no some of these instuctors i am sure fondly

    Comment by frank stella — May 15, 2010 @ 11:45 pm

  285. post 284 was for time period 10/64 to 07/67 time frame

    Comment by frank stella — May 15, 2010 @ 11:46 pm

  286. Attended eight week Officers Intelligence Course during April and May 1970 after two years in Vietnam. As a Navy guy, I attended using an alias! Did anyone else enjoy this experience?

    Comment by len — May 18, 2010 @ 9:49 pm

  287. Regarding post above by Steve Shein: When were you at 3rd Bn at Bien Hoa. I have been trying to remember the LTC’s name and you mentioned it: Colonel Wentzel. I left in Sept. ’71 and he was still there. I was the SGT E5 who worked in the front of the S3 shop.

    Larry Hamilton

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — May 19, 2010 @ 1:46 pm

  288. …for any of you who served with the 511th MI Company please feel free to come visit our web site at:


    …this includes those who served with the ROs and BROs from 1960 to 1980. There are more than 100 former members who receive our newsletter. (106 newsletters so far)

    Former commanders LTC Leonard Spirito & LTC Thomas Dooley are a part of the email group.


    Comment by Gary Behymer — May 19, 2010 @ 2:05 pm

  289. I got there in Aug 1970, after Basic at Ft Polk, waited for TS clearance for a month doing lots of KP. I was amazed to see brick barracks. All I was familiar with from visiting my uncle at Ft Ord and SF Presidio in the 50’s and 60’s, and Polk was old wooden buildings constantly being cared for by grunts like me. So, I went through the 97B course, had a blast every weekend in DC and Arlington after becoming friends with a fellow classmate, Ernie Buck. Some might remember him as “Dirty Ernie”. We both stayed on as instructors (pretty sure we were drafted) and, in my case, with absolutely NO prior combat, or military experience, went on to teach classes in Interview/Interrogation, Tactical CI, Survielance, and my favorite-SouthEast Asia Orientation for soon-to-be S2s, J2s. At first that was a bit intimidating for me, a new PFC, but after a while it became fun. I was one of the last to make the move to Arizona when the school moved. THAT was a change. No more brick. I suffer from Can’t Remember Sh.. and don’t recall many of the names of some great people that I worked with. Audited the DAME course at Huachuca. Being a Rabbit during a surviellance exercize in downtown Tucson in 1972 was not the same as running the Block back in Baltmer, as they pronounced it. Back then it was 6 square blocks and just about everything was closed on a Sunday. I miss the class parties, working with those crazy actors and trying to get the lesson point through to the hung over SEAL or SF E-6 cleaning his finger nails with a dagger.

    After almost 3 yrs of USAINTS I went on to ROK and, again, stayed where I entered, assigned to the ASCOM Field Office, fun times, great people, and interesting work. Then back to CONUS to Ft Riley dor my last 60 days, oops, got there just as they were all going to play war games in the mud in Germany and I couldn’t go. I almost stayed, but since DIS took my job, I would have had to get a new MOS with no guarantees, so that was that. I have seen Ernie a few times since then, but no one else. I have a few photos of Huachuca area, but nothing from Holabird. Names I remember: 1LT Ron Pratchal and his broken ‘Vette, SFC Ralph Griest, SGT Dennis Alred, SGT Bill Keeney, SGT Russ Turner, SGT Ernie Buck…
    Thanks for this site.

    Comment by Dave Anderson(Sacramento, CA) — May 21, 2010 @ 8:56 pm

  290. Regarding Post # 287 by Sgt Larry Hamilton, yes, I was in 3rd Bn, 525th MI Grp, Bien Hoa. Got there in July ’71 and LTC Jim Wensyel was the CO. Wensyel was a great boss and he had been my CO at Region 1, 108th MI Group in NYC and got me assigned to his unit in Vietnam . I was a 1st LT as was a friend, Bill Coughlin from upstate New York. I think the XO was Maj. Macias (he reminded me of Ernie Kovacs). There as a senior NCO named Noel (can’t remember his last name) who I think first came to RVN in 1963 or 64. As I recall, Noel was pretty good on the ping pong table we had in the club. We shared our Bn Hdqtrs compound with a MIBARS unit and a dental unit. There was a Cpt Mike Skidmore who was the S-4 and was from West Virginia. When he rotated back to the “WORLD” he was replaced by Cpt Roy Allen. The guy who ran the club on the compound was named Mike Lamantia and I think he was from Staten Island, NY. It was a great compound with movies nightly and a live show weekly. The bands used to show up in mini vans long before the vans became popular in the USA – mostly Phillipino groups who somehow managed to sound exactly like the bands they covered. We had chopper pilots assigned to the battalion, one of them we called, “Doc”. The two of them partied very hardy and flying with them was always interesting. As pay officer, I flew with them each month to our detachments in Tay Ninh, An Loc, Zuan Loc, Vung Tau and Cu Chi. Someone’s pet monkey in Cu Chi grabbed my badge & credentials from my shirt pocket and ran off with them. That was an interesting chase & recovery operation. Who knew about the tunnels under Cu Chi back then?

    Comment by Steve Schein — May 23, 2010 @ 9:37 pm

  291. I think this will work. Remember, the first 18 sec. are blank then it starts.

    Comment by Bill — May 23, 2010 @ 11:33 pm

  292. Re: Post #290. Lt. Schein. I remember the Lt. whom you replaced as pay officer. Many of the men I worked with were leaving about the time you arrived in country. I worked closely with the Ops. Officer, Major Weyand (had he left by the time you arrived?). Until shortly after Xmas of 1970 I was a case officer at one of the teams down the road at Bien Hoa and remember going to Cu Chi (I think it was headquarters of 2/25 infantry division). I remember reading about the tunnels there after the war (was glad I was ignorant of them when I was there). Before you arrived, I believe in April of ’71 the chopper went down and all four on board were killed. I have found sites on web with the names of those individuals. I remember the incident quite vividly as the LTC thought I was the best and fastest typist in the unit so he had me type all the letters he wrote to the families of those killed(was a very emotional experience for me).

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — May 24, 2010 @ 11:08 pm

  293. The bus trip sounds familiar. It seems that everyone arrives at the “Bird” in the middle of the night.I was in the last enlisted 97B class, 97B11. Does anyone remember Smenow’s (spelling ?) Tavern just outside of the main gate.

    I had the opportunity to wax the floors of the OLOG Building 2 days before it was torn down. I ended up at the Ft Lewis Field Office, 115th MI Group.

    Comment by Mike Hanlon — May 26, 2010 @ 8:49 pm

  294. Waxing the floors of OLOG two days before it was torn down sounds like the Army that I remember. I was afraid things had changed. Some things did. We wore brown shoes. Ed Delehanty

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — June 1, 2010 @ 6:10 pm

  295. Ed,

    That’s the Army for you. In early January, 1955, upon entering basic training, we were issued brown low-quarters. By June of that year orders came down that low-quarters were to be dyed black. Planning ahead Army style.


    Comment by manny — June 2, 2010 @ 5:46 pm

  296. Manny, you just reminded me of the old phrase
    “brown shoe army”.

    Harlan Lunsford

    Comment by Harlan Lunsford — June 3, 2010 @ 1:31 pm

  297. I came from Fort Ord, California to Fort Holabird in 1958. I’d finished school at UC-Berkeley but I turned down OCS; took the French language exam in Basic training and was told to go to the Intelligence School! Being African American made it difficult for me out side of the post. Baltimore was segregated. I remember two white friends sat with me in the balcony at a movie house in Baltimore to see South Pacific. I could not go to our graduation party because the club would not allow me to enter. I was scheduled to go to SHAPE headquarters in France but an NCO told me, “No way.” I went to Stuttgart, Germany. I made great friends and got to travel over Europe. I am still in touch with one friend who was in the class ahead of me but who also was in Stuttgart. Great memories.

    Comment by Jerry Wright — June 5, 2010 @ 5:14 pm

  298. BOSTICK,,,ur name sounds very familiar. I was with the 502nd from 72 to 73 and saw what happened when the ROK White Horse battalion returned from VietNam. By that time ASCOM was reduced to just a few US bodies. We went from a 10 man field office to 2 when I left. But before that I was teaching CI at the Bird and later, Huachuca. Do I remember you from there, maybe? With CAPT Harris, USMC, CI?

    Comment by Dave Anderson(Sacramento, CA) — June 6, 2010 @ 8:54 pm

  299. My husband had an entrance physical at Holabird Sept. 1970,the VA has said that they have lost all of his medical records and they also said that no one had a physical at Fort Holabird during that time.We are surching for anyone who had a physical there during Sept.1970.Any help we can get would be greatly appricated.
    Thank you& God Bless
    Liz Bright

    Comment by Liz Bright — June 7, 2010 @ 10:33 am

  300. Now some 40 plus years later, I find memories of Fort Holabird to be both vivid and increasingly assertive. As so many of you have retold, they were interesting times and each and all of us remain as witness.

    Was a student at Holabird in early 67, did a year in Vietnam in 67 and 68 at 519th MI bn./CICV and then returned to alma mater in mid 68 and remained there as an instructor until the end of September 69 (ETS). I lived in building 110 and taught classes out at the Barn, bldg 320 and bldg 1. Worked part-time evenings sliding beers and ersatz hamburgers across the counter at the 123 Club. Good times, mostly great folks.

    What remains of Holabird in clearly evident on Google Earth (mainly the Officer’s Club with its filled-in swimming pool and that odorous anchor of many a recollection: Colgate Creek. The best parts live on in many a memory … the way it’s supposed to be! Still have fond memories of closing the NCO club and then walking down to Squires for a pizza and more brew. Anyone remember a tall curly headed Squires’ waitress named Colleen?

    Alas, growing up is vastly overrated!

    Regards all!

    Tom Coughlin (fargowest@cableone.net)

    Comment by Tom Coughlin — June 15, 2010 @ 4:39 am

  301. I was an early post-Holabird 97D trainee at Huachuca, coming back later for 97B training. The instructors and support people there were still waxing nostalgic about “The Bird,” mainly I think because of the conspicuous absence of nightlife in Sierra Vista.
    I had no idea that draftees had ever been routed to the Intel School; it seems…incautious to give a high level clearance to somebody who’s been rousted from his peaceful occupations by conscription. I know I would not have been happy about it. It must have felt odd, swearing to uphold a constitution that prohibits involuntary servitude next to a bunch of conscripts; by the time I went in, the draft was suspended.

    Comment by Marc de Piolenc — June 15, 2010 @ 8:02 pm

  302. Almost all of the draftees were given SECRET clearances. All of the Agents and Coordinators had volunteered and given TOP SECRET clearances.

    Comment by Bill — June 16, 2010 @ 12:12 am

  303. I was a draftee and got a top secret clearance as did the rest of the class. This was in 1956 so things might have changed since. I remember in one class that we were asked if we knew of any Communists or fellow travellers amongst our college professors. I don’t think they got too many names. Some of our instructors felt that the coalminer’s song, popular at that time, was subversive. We were also asked if anyof us would like to volunteer for CIC Airborne.
    Again, no takers.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — June 16, 2010 @ 10:18 am

  304. Draftees and RA’s both were eligible for Top Secret and Secret clearance in the mid-50′ as both worked with the same materials and there were far more draftees in intelligence (probably based on education and IQ).

    Comment by Manny Adler — June 16, 2010 @ 4:34 pm

  305. From 1965-1968 I worked in S-2, Troop Command for the school where we issued or validated the security clearances for the students and permanent party. In almost all cases, the draftees were not issued Top Secret clearances. They might have been issued at there next duty station on a need basis. All the agents and coordinators were volunteers not draftees.

    Comment by Bill — June 16, 2010 @ 11:37 pm

  306. Oh the memories! I was assigned to the Bird in 1971. Got there and no one knew where I was supposed to be or what I was doing there. The CSM gave me a choice, he would find me a job or put me up for the first available levy. I decided to stay and I became a driver for LTC James Howard who was the Headquarters Commandant. What a great assignment! I would drive to DC and spend my days being a tourist. Came down on levy seven times but was deemed critical to the Bird. Finally left there in 1973 when the Command moved to Ft. Meade.

    I have been looking for some of the old timers from the Intel Command:

    LTC James W. Howard
    James Schlicher
    The Skori brothers
    Doug Magnani
    Marilyn Hanna
    Laurette Sturm
    Sonnie Williams
    Sally Kimbell

    If you know where these folks are now days or you were at the Bird from 1971 to 1973 drop me a line at: big_al_oh@yahoo.com

    Comment by C. G. Alvord — June 27, 2010 @ 11:21 pm

  307. I stumbled across this site as I was searching for a definition of what a 97D40 MI Coordinator was! Apparently, it was a secondary MOS I had and never knew it! I, recently, received my complete file and saw the listing. If anyone could explain what a 97D40 did I would appreciate it. I got sidetracked reading all the posts on this site and never continued the seach! Really a great trip!

    I was a 97B40, CI Agent, and in the Army from January `68 to December `70. I read a lot of the posts with amusement, and interest, in things I forgot, bringing back many memories of Holabird and surrounding establishments – especially Squires. I had to laugh at some of the posts on first reactions to Holabird directly out of Basic. I experienced much the same thing arriving late on a Friday night via train from Ft. Bragg, called the Fort and they sent a SGT to pick me up – thought I as in trouble! Also, being in Casual Company for two months (March to mid May) with an SSGT in charge, who was always happy as long as we were there on Monday morning! One day a 2nd Lt appeared changing all the assignments – he lasted about two days and we were back to normal, at least normal for Holabird! Or, being in class and attending afternoon sessions, getting to sleep late after partying the night before. A new SSGT in charge of quarters didn’t like that and sent us out picking up cigarette butts, early in the morning. However, he did not realize the area he sent us was in the vicinity of the School Commandant’s quarters who happened to appear and questioned why we were not studying on our free time – the SSGT was gone that day!

    I went through the Agent’s course from May to September `68 and was well beyond lucky being assigned to the New Haven, Connecticut, Field Office, 108th MI Group, where I remained for my whole tour! As I recall, my entire class got assigned to Field Offices throughout the US. After graduation from Holabird I never had a uniform on, again, until the day I processed out! Spent the majority of my time doing background investigations and, of course, the era of “spying on civilians” covering campus and anti-war demonstrations. Hardly any military life involved, and most of the time it was difficult to remember you were in the Army! We were far enough from our Regional Office in Boston that no one ever bothered us. Other than to process out I only went to the Group Hdqtrs, Ft. Devens, MA, once to pickup a new car! New Haven was only 80 miles from my home on Long Island, so I was there all the time – it was like a commute!
    One funny little thing that I took a lot of ribbing about – my RA service number ended in 007!
    Frank Pavlak (fpav@aol.com)

    Comment by Frank Pavlak — July 1, 2010 @ 11:08 pm

  308. Frank, a 97D40 compiled the reports from all the agents, FBI, local police, and military records on a “subject” , the object of an investigation (BI or NAC) to determine the course of action to take. Most of the time it was weather or not to issue a security clearance.
    A 97B40 could be used as a coordinator if needed and a 97D40 could be used as a 97B40 if needed.(rarely).

    Comment by bill — July 2, 2010 @ 11:15 pm

  309. GREAT SITE !!! I served FAFO, 113th MIG, Chicago from Mar 1965 to Aug 1967. One of my SAC’S was Bill Yantis.
    I would like to talk to him if you can forward on my email address!!! I have info on George K.B. Choi that he mentions in his posts, also Civilian employees that he speaks of.

    Thanks again,
    Bob Davey

    Comment by BOB DAVEY — July 5, 2010 @ 12:10 pm

  310. Went to Holabird in 1962, right out of basic at Ft. Jackson. Completed the “Coordinator” course and was assigned to the 109th INTC Group working out of the US Customs House in Baltimore. I returned to Holabird in 1965 for the “Agents” course and was shipped to 401st, later changed to the 710th in Honolulu, Hawaii. Would enjoy hearing from anyone who might remember me. adjusterr@myactv.net

    Comment by Ron Amos — July 6, 2010 @ 12:44 am

  311. Bill: Thank you for defining what a 97D40 did. Now I know where all those Agent Reports went!

    Comment by Frank Pavlak — July 6, 2010 @ 11:40 am

  312. Like many others, I also stumbled onto the site, just like finding the Fort. Who would have believed it was so small after the Basic Training forts we all attended. I think Jim runs the blog and kudos to him for an excellent site. His archives are also worth a look! Thanks to Bill(?) for the U-Tube video. I can’t believe any more of us took the time to document the place. I’ll bet those of us who served outside of CONUS have more pics. Any chance of getting them uploaded by MI Group on the site?

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 7, 2010 @ 3:21 pm

  313. Bruce, have you checked out “Facebook”?
    “Fort Holabird Alumni” and
    “United States Military Intelligence”

    Comment by bill — July 7, 2010 @ 11:07 pm

  314. Fort Holabird Photos: Check out post 264 referencing three authorized books with pics from the “Bird” and other intell installations. You may recall there were no pictures allowed at Holabird Graduations..not many photos of anything..discretion was a factor and probably LIDMAC, which was preached constantly. On the 97D MOS, they were generally those under 21 years old not yet allowed to carry B/C’s until cross trained.

    Comment by RF — July 8, 2010 @ 11:15 am

  315. CONUS Agent Reports (AR’s) ended up at the Central Records Repository, or the “barn” as we called it. First left before the RR tracks. Most of the blog posts deal with the School. A tour of the Repository would have been equally impressive. The records went back to WWII, at least, and were all on paper. The storage area and movement of dossiers from the stacks was something I’ll never forget. Can’t imagine how long it would take to computerize them. Dossiers of people of “extreme interest” would require shopping carts to get them to the civilians who reviewed the reports. Retired officers, DOD civilians, and a smattering of Permanent Party. Truly, an amazing combination. An indivdual named fnu Doyon(sp)had the time to collect what he called “Doyon’s Collected Errors” from AR’s. If anyone knows him, or has a copy, you owe it to the individuals who wrote them to post it. It’s a classic only Holabird’s would appreciate!

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 8, 2010 @ 4:58 pm

  316. Stumbled on this site and spent several hours reading the comments. Wow! It was a great trip down memory lane. After basic training at Fort Jackson, SC,I arrived at Fort Holabird in April 1965 for the 97B Agents Course. My route to “the bird” mirrored that of many of my classmates, college; then a job while I sweated out the draft. The draft finally caught up with me in January 65. While at the induction station, a silver tongued recruiter convinced me that an extra year of enlistment in Intelligence was better than the Infantry. Many of us were smart-ass college boys with little affection for the military. Our unofficial class song was the “Mickey Mouse Club Song, which we sang with great bravado in the barracks to protest any task that we thought was unnecessary harassment. We yelled “chair-borne” when dismissed after marching to class. Fort Holabird was like a small college campus with just a small amount of the military BS, like morning police call, KP, and marching to class. Baltimore was a fun city. Just didn’t have the pay grade to fully enjoy it. After graduation, my first assignment was the Jackson Mississippi FO, a small office with just three of us. My Holabird classmates teased me when they learned that I was going to Mississippi, land of racial tensions and klu kluxers, but it was a great place to work;lots of driving and knocking on doors. We covered more than half of the state. Best of all I met my wife there. From Jackson,MS I was sent to the 201st MI Detachment, Uijonbu, Korea in late 1966. Things had started heating up in Korea the previous year and continued to escalate in 1967. I worked in the Special Operations Branch(SOB) and had contact with five ROK Division CIC units stationed along the DMZ. Things got very interesting at times. The ROK’s were real “kick ass” soldiers and good people to work with. Left Korea in January 68 and back to the land of round eyes and big PX’s for discharge. My time in Army Intelligence was well worth that extra year of enlistment. I cherish those memories and experiences. Anyone out there who may have crossed paths with me or shared experiences, please contact me. jonsucone@comcast.net

    Comment by John M. Cone — July 8, 2010 @ 9:29 pm

  317. Bill, I checked out Facebook and unless I’m doing something wrong it doesn’t hold a candle to this blog. I saw your post and the pic of the bar, nothing else. Jim, or anyone else have any ideas where to upload pics of the 525th, 135th, and Saigon during Tet?

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 10, 2010 @ 3:56 pm

  318. Jim of Parkway Rest Stop here. I am amazed at the response this blog post has received. As many of you know, it was the last of a series of posts I did about basic training. I did not include any information about what happened after training at Fort Holabird, because I didn’t think it would interest most of the people who visit the blog.

    Given that this post has drawn an audience of MI Types, I will share some stuff that MI Guys would “get.”

    Virtually all the interrogators in classes prior to mine went to Vietnam, and I had assumed that I would also be assigned to Vietnam. As it turned out, the assignments were largely driven by language capability. The guys who spoke Korean were assigned to Korea and the guys who spoke German (I was among that group) or East Bloc languages were sent to Germany. We had a guy who spoke Italian (Charlie Scudder), and he was sent to Italy (only a few miles from his parents’ summer home). The guys who spoke no foreign language or who spoke French were sent to Fort Hood, after which I presume then went to Vietnam.

    I was assigned to the 511th MI Company in Nuernberg and from there to the Border Resident Office in Passau (part of FO Cham). There were about five or six of us there, and it was great duty, except for the all-too-regular visits by officers on “TDY” to “inspect” the place on their way to spend leave time in Austria. They really loved to visit the office, because one of the interrogators stationed there (Ray Potter) happened to have been a Wurzburg-trained chef who, prior to being drafted, was the chef for the Governor of Florida. Filet Wellington seemed to be the favorite of the visiting officers.

    Once, one of the visiting officers asked Ray for some salt, and Ray ate his face off. “Sir, I spent hours preparing this dish and it absolutely does NOT need salt.” Another time, another high ranking officer asked Ray for Ketchup, and I thought Ray was going to have a stroke. “Ketchup? On my filet Wellington? Absolutely not!” I figured that outburst would get all of us transferred to the Mekong Delta, but I guess the officer realized that, even though the BRO was an Army Installation, our dining room was not a mess hall and Ray was not a mess cook.

    Many more stories. I’ll hop in once in a while and tell them.

    THANKS for visiting the site.

    Parkway Rest Stop

    P.S. The rest of the Army Stories are here:


    Army Underwear.

    “You Must Have Cheated!”

    Test Day. The Sergeant, and the Wannabe “Remington Raider.

    Army Glasses.

    Night Infiltration and the Pathetic Mondo Kane Turtle.


    Vertical Butt Stroke.

    Sick Call.

    K.P., The Great Lie, and the Potato Mountain.

    Fort Dix Quickies.

    Spit, Polish, Graduation, and Orders.

    Fort Holabird or the Twilight Zone?

    P.P.S. If you email me photos, I believe I can post them. Not sure, but I think I can. jim@parkwayreststop.com

    Comment by Jim — July 10, 2010 @ 4:52 pm

  319. Jim, THANKS for a great site. I have spent too many hours reading and sometimes re-reading the posts here. As I said in an earlier post, you never read any negative stories about Holabird. It seems like everyone had a good time there.
    I hope this site never ends.

    Comment by bill — July 10, 2010 @ 11:31 pm

  320. I’m a guy from Indiana who got called for his draft physical in fall of 65. Not wanted to be drafted to do whatever Uncle Sugar could find for me I thought I’d see how I could help myself by enlisting. Took all manner of tests at the recruiters office and the AFFEES station in chicago and came back highly scored said I could have whatever job I liked. Spent 2 months poring over books looking over jobs that I felt would surely bore me to tears of get me ground up. The recruiter was getting exasperated and one day out of the blue asked me if I’d liked to try the Intelligence Corps. I didn’t have a clue but Sarge said no worry we have a SAC upstairs. Take you up to meet him and he’ll check you out with some questions. Nice guy, questions ok, then he gave me an essay to write 500words while he was outfor lunch. It was on some geopolitic subject which I forget now but must have impressed him cause he asked me back and offered me the special invite. Not much about what I’d be doing.Two days later went to Chicago on the South Shore railway from South Bend,IN. Stayed one night at the YMCA hotel then walked the two blocks to the station to test again and another physical. Thought being a Hoosier I’d be going to Ft Knox, KY. No such luck. Kept about 300 of us around O’Hare airport Terminal at the Butler Aviation site. Bout 9p 3 decripit old Lockheed Constellation Airliners taxied up and cut engines. The beckoned us in. THe seats and trim worn and funky. After we loaded us we settled in and after start they informed us we were headed to Alexandria Air Force Bace where we would be met by Army motor transport from there to Fort Puke, Louisiana (POLK) Our plane had water in the window panes which froze into ice cakes above 18,000 ft. Another had an engine fire near Bolwling Green and dropped out for repairs. There for next 10 weeks we were separated and reordered to move to other areas and learn to live,dress and act soldierly. Mostly we were cold and hungry. As the end of training came our cadre started to take we intellilgence recruits aside and give us some visit with hight ranked and experienced people who began to give as a fair description and assessment of what the next line of training would be.. I finished on time so Ft Holabird sent me to the bird. I took a weeks leave at home then bused it to the School. I steppd out of a cab at a totally unprotected gate w one MP who helped me get my stuff and self to the orderly room for class of new 66B, C D & II. Met a cool Top Sgt that informed us our classes would start later and we were casual companies,, I started on lawwn detaul cutting and weedeating all day, then one day I got a break. another little private was using powered shears and nearly cut the other cutters fingers off. Guy fainted. I still had my Army and Civil Air Patrol first aid training current, I saved the guys fingers and the sarge has no command blowback. Now he my new friend. He say I need a better job He takes me out and intro me to the guy tht takes care of the colonel at the HQ Finds me now driver to the schoolNow im doin fine. I get to move lout I’LLbfing the senses…….it getting there. i’m gettin out wanna bust and see a glimprseoo-of ahhhohhhh get heading w all force to intercept the WAC
    yes…..the big ome if she comes/////. The one remembered as the big amazon princess, the red head the only CHERYL STANLEY THE PRINCESS OF THE NCO CLUB wHERE DID SHE GO.




    Comment by Jeff D. Rowe — July 11, 2010 @ 5:31 am

  321. Jeff(320):

    Need a cryptologist fast to decipher the latter part of your posting. I’m sure we have a few reading this so go ahead code breakers.


    Comment by manny — July 11, 2010 @ 9:44 am

  322. Jeff(320):

    Don’t remember your PRINCESS OF THE NCO CLUB, but she’ll have a hard time competing with one from 1968. Her name was Judy (Ching) Lee, from California, I believe. Not Oriental, red head, or an amazon. Good figure and drove a convertible. Base MP’s, Special Forces, Marine students, and Permament Party will all remember her, and I don’t mean it in a disrespectful way. Addendum: Bill, you should be the first to try the picture post that Jim has offered. Especially, after the movie. Bring your stuff from Facebook over. If it works I’ll try next.

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 11, 2010 @ 1:39 pm

  323. Manny;
    Apparently the lingering effects of drinking Colgate Creek’s bubbly has endured after reading comment #320.
    Ed Hotchkiss (187)

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — July 12, 2010 @ 11:49 am

  324. In looking for the name of a movie that my husband and I saw in the spring of 1963 on the post of Ft. Holabird, I discovered this website. What a great website!!! I do believe I’m the only wife that has made a comment as most of the men were young and not yet married. My 2nd Lt. husband, John Waddell, had graduated from Texas A&M and his whole class of 1962 had been advised 1) not to marry prior to entering the Army, AND
    2) not to buy a car. So, what did my sweet hubby do? Both!
    I read that some of you are interested in pictures of the post so I dug out my slides and found one photo of the Sphinx which was a statue probably located near the entrance of Ft. Holabird.
    My husband would have gotten a kick out of this website, but unfortunately, he passed away in 1992. Other pictures I have are of the main street (Dundalk Avenue?) in Dundalk and of the apartments where we lived, as well as a snow day and our snowman! The apartments were unique with a series of “A” line roofs…Some of you might recall them.
    Being from Texas, the snow was a novelty…and our next assignment….wouldn’t you know….was to Ft. Hood!
    I’ll be glad to send photos to anyone….as I was only able to find “Military Intelligence” on Facebook, and there were no entries.

    Comment by Mary Lou Waddell-Coughlin — July 13, 2010 @ 9:09 pm

  325. Here is my stuff from FaceBook:



    I hope it works.

    Comment by bill — July 13, 2010 @ 11:42 pm

  326. Don’t forget, the first 14 sec. of the video are blank, wait.

    Comment by bill — July 13, 2010 @ 11:44 pm

  327. I attended 96B training in the spring of 64. Have you ever wondered what details WACs in casual status got stuck with? The weather had been stormy and windy. The WAC detachment lst Sergeant had me crawling around in the mud under the WAC detachment barracks cleaning up cigarette butts & other junk which had landed in there during the stormy, windy weather.

    After the 1st Sgt released me for the day, I went into the barracks, and headed straight for the latrine. Peeled off everything and threw clothes into the washing machine. Took a shower to get rid of the mud. Then used some paper towels to clean the shower and the latrine floor, before heading back to my cubicle. Picture one very bare assed female who had initially forgotten that the window blinds were all at half mask. I ducked low, and headed for the other end of the barracks. Hadn’t gone more than a few feet when I heard footsteps coming up the outside stairs. Decided to move faster. Heard the 1st Sgt announce, “Man in the barracks!” I flew into my cubical. Care to guess how long it took me to get into prescribed uniform while I listened to approaching footsteps? I suspect that’s a record that held up for years to come.

    My 96B (Intelligence Analyst) class had 4 Special Forces NCOs, 4 Marines, & 1 WAC (me). The rest were Army men. About 1/2 were privates–some draftees, some enlistees. About 1/2 were NCOs. I only remember one name: Gunny Sergeant Marion Rose. I’m sure about his 1st name, and the remark he made to an Army SFC who tried to give him a hard time. “If it’s good enough for John Wayne, it’s good enough for me.” (John Wayne’s legal name was Marion Morrison.) I know Gunny’s last name was immediately after mine on the class roster. Fairly sure it was Rose.

    The laugh of the day came with the first roll call: Names A-Q are read from roster, followed by Reames. I responded “Here, Sergeant.” from the back of the room. Next name, “Rose” gets a deep masculine voice, saying “Yoo-ah” from Marine in front row. The entire class cracked up.

    At the end of the 1st week of class we were told to form up into groups of five for an exercise which lasted several hours. Even then I knew which members of the class would end up high in the class standing. The Special Forces and the Marines. The Special Forces added an Airborne Ranger to come up with their team of 5. The Marines added me to their team. I stayed on the Marine team for the rest of the 96B training. I learned a lot from those Marines–all of it positive stuff. They were a great bunch of guys.

    You’re right. Fort Holabird was a major change from Basic Training at Fort McClellan, Alabama. I’ve many fond memories of the place and most of the people there. This web site brought back even more great memories. After leaving Fort Holabird, I ended up at the Presidio of San Francisco working in G2. Thanks for keeping this web site alive. It’s great to read all those comments. I’d enjoy hearing from students who were at Ft. Holabird in the spring of 64. Cheers, Owl@Redshift.com

    Comment by Helen Reames — July 15, 2010 @ 4:10 am

  328. I attended 96B training in the spring of 64. Have you ever wondered what details WACs in casual status got stuck with? The weather had been stormy and windy. The WAC detachment lst Sergeant had me crawling around in the mud under the WAC detachment barracks cleaning up cigarette butts & other junk which had landed in there during the stormy, windy weather.

    After the 1st Sgt released me for the day, I went into the barracks, and headed straight for the latrine. Peeled off everything and threw clothes into the washing machine. Took a shower to get rid of the mud. Then used some paper towels to clean the shower and the latrine floor, before heading back to my cubicle. Picture one very bare assed female who had initially forgotten that the window blinds were all at half mask. I ducked low, and headed for the other end of the barracks. Hadn’t gone more than a few feet when I heard footsteps coming up the outside stairs. Decided to move faster. Heard the 1st Sgt announce, “Man in the barracks!” I flew into my cubical. Care to guess how long it took me to get into prescribed uniform while I listened to approaching footsteps? I suspect that’s a record that held up for years to come.

    My 96B (Intelligence Analyst) class had 4 Special Forces NCOs, 4 Marines, & 1 WAC (me). The rest were Army men. About 1/2 were privates–some draftees, some enlistees. About 1/2 were NCOs. I only remember one name: Gunny Sergeant Marion Rose. I’m sure about his 1st name, and the remark he made to an Army SFC who tried to give him a hard time. “If it’s good enough for John Wayne, it’s good enough for me.” (John Wayne’s legal name was Marion Morrison.) I know Gunny’s last name was immediately after mine on the class roster. Fairly sure it was Rose.

    The laugh of the day came with the first roll call: Names A-Q are read from roster, followed by Reames. I responded “Here, Sergeant.” from the back of the room. Next name, “Rose” gets a deep masculine voice, saying “Yoo-ah” from Marine in front row. The entire class cracked up.

    At the end of the 1st week of class we were told to form up into groups of five for an exercise which lasted several hours. Even then I knew which members of the class would end up high in the class standing. The Special Forces and the Marines. The Special Forces added an Airborne Ranger to come up with their team of 5. The Marines added me to their team. I stayed on the Marine team for the rest of the 96B training. I learned a lot from those Marines–all of it positive stuff. They were a great bunch of guys.

    You’re right. Fort Holabird was a major change from Basic Training at Fort McClellan, Alabama. I’ve many fond memories of the place and most of the people there. This web site brought back even more great memories. After leaving Fort Holabird, I ended up at the Presidio of San Francisco working in G2. Thanks for keeping this web site alive. It’s great to read all those comments. I’d enjoy hearing from students who were at Ft. Holabird in the spring of 64. Cheers, Owl@Redshift.com

    Comment by Helen Reames — July 15, 2010 @ 4:11 am

  329. There is a facebook site entitled 525th MI Group Vietnam Veterans.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — July 18, 2010 @ 9:11 pm

  330. Added Pre and Post Tet pics to that Facebook site. Since I’m a Facebook newbee, I hope they work. Sorry about the quality.

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 22, 2010 @ 4:37 pm

  331. Wow. A trip down Memory Lane. I was a mere “Intelligence Analyst” but loved my time at the bird – Sept through Christmas, 1966. We actually had to carry a pass – 400 miles max distance from the bird – w/o a valid plane tickket.

    But I could go all the way home to Gloucester MA on it.

    My arrival story was virtually identicle. Asked all kinds of people how to get to Holabird. Not a clue.

    Thanks for the memories.

    Cheers, Tim

    Comment by Tim Harrigan — July 27, 2010 @ 9:16 pm

  332. Don’t know if I mentioned, but I did basic at Fort Ord in the fall of 1968, then Holabird from Jan-May 1969. My MOS was 97B4 and from Holabird I went to the 66th MI group in Munich, then a week at the 527th MI company in K-town and the rest of my time at the Karlsruhe Field Office on Smiley Barracks. I attended German Language School at Hopkins Barracks just outside of Oberamergau. I left the Army in September 1971.

    A friend of mine who went through the same course and now lives in Annapolis, MD, a few years ago sent me some pictures of the school. All boarded up, barbwire and rust everywhere. From those pictures he sent, I have no recollection of even going to that school.

    I do fondly remember Colegate Creek with the foul smell and of course the wobbly bridge.

    Love this website. If anyone wants to contact me by email my addy is : jwashington@vtc.net.

    Comment by John — July 29, 2010 @ 3:43 pm

  333. 525th MI Group, Tet Offensive, Saigon. MAJ Lee Hoskins and CWO2 Mary Bender. “She was responsible for holding off the VC entering the Meyerkord Hotel and securing that Field Office”. Sadly, she has passed. Family is searching for Silver Star testimony. I only have second-hand information.

    Comment by Bruce Hagar — July 31, 2010 @ 4:56 pm

  334. Went to Polygraph Course with Mary in early 1970 annd was assigned with her in the old 902d during 1971 – 1973 timeframe. Unfortunately do not kknow anyone who could help with the award. I knew her son was looking for information for some time.

    Comment by Don Clifton — August 2, 2010 @ 5:22 pm

  335. Great site. It came up on Google when I was checking out a story I had heard about the place being converted to a vocactional college—sad it is not true.

    I did not see any mention of the Military Intelligence Corps Association http://www.micorps.org where for a small annual fee you get an ID card and magazine and you can get a membership in the Pentagon Federal Credit Union if you apply as a former MI type. I find its VISA card useful for web purchases. It is amazing how fast you get the refund on a bad purchase when you mention that it is on your Pentagon card!

    The magazine is not nearly as informative as this site on the history of Holabird, but tells what the current MI types are doing and mentions the old place occasionaly.

    I got to Holabird in Fall 1968 and voted there for my first time—had to take my absentee ballot to the CO and explain to the CO why I was voting for the Democrat. I have enjoyed retelling that story ever since when there is a discussion of our bringing democracy to places!

    My college deferment was up and a friend suggested MI so I talked to an agent, very mysterious, out in an small cold office on Staten Island, as I recall. He had me do an essay and I was able to write for several hours, restating my major seminar paper on warfare in Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Cuba, etc. Apparently it was ok.

    After basic at Fort Jackson I did the 97B course and the creek smell, typing class, polygraph classes and bouncing bridge are all fun to read about here.

    Our class was almost all enlisted college grads and one day some important officer came and asked if we wanted to be officers and was very upset when one guy, from California as I recall, said we were all enlisted as we did not want to be infantry officers and asked what our secondary mos would be. He said Infantry and the class laughed. I assumed we were doomed, but he just left. No one signed up. We had a couple of E6 and above in the class and they did not associate with the rest of us, particularly after that episode.

    Most all classes ahead of ours got orders for Vietnam, but the Russians invaded Czechoslovakia and when we came back from Christmas leave, telling our families we were going to Vietnam, we mostly got stateside assignments and a few to Germany. I got sent back to Fort Jackson, South Carolina and spent two and one half years there.

    That is a story for another day. I think most of it is still covered by some document I signed not to talk about it?

    I have been back to Baltimore a number of times and never made it out to beautiful Dundalk but the waterfront and downtown sure have changed! I really enjoyed watching the HBO series WIRED. Get it for a real flavor of Baltimore.

    Again, great site–thanks for keeping it going.

    John Tait Holabird January 1969

    Comment by John Tait — August 2, 2010 @ 7:05 pm

  336. I recall visiting the “Block” in Baltimore while stationed at Ft. Holabird. We went to visit Blaze Starr’s “Two O’Clock Club”- she came on to perform at midnight and we had to be back on base by then. Next to her club I seem to recall a club called “Ronnie and her Twin Liberty Bells” – go figure.

    Comment by John — August 4, 2010 @ 3:29 pm

  337. This site brings back many memories all good except KP. I was in the last 97B class at the “Bird”. The barracks were deserted with only 2 floors in use. We had a Marine contingent. At the Friday formation, the lowest ranking 2LT got stuck with the inspection. The Marine NCO told this unlucky LT that Marines were only inspected by Marine officers. The LT went to the Officers’ Club and got one very drunk and pissed off Marine Major who did a 10 second inspection of the Marines and a 30 minute private talk with the NCO.

    Army 2LT were then authorized to inspect the Marines.

    We all felt pretty bad for the Marines who were put at Parade Rest while the Army company was dismissed. Those poor guys stood formation for 30 minutes until the Major showed up.

    Comment by Michael J. Hanlon — August 4, 2010 @ 4:10 pm

  338. I was assigned to Holabird from May 63 until my discharge in Feb. 66. I enjoyed it as much as anyone can. Went to school as a 974 MI Coordinator, then assigned to the G3 Training Division and later when the Intelligence Command was shifted to Ft. Meade, I was the senior enlisted man (Spec. 4) in the S-3. I enjoyed the Holabird Inn, the Greek Liberty Cafe which was close to the corner of Holabird Ave. and Dundalk Blvd.,the Roach as we called it across the street from the main gate as well, and Harley’s subs. I lived in the big brick while in school and then a bay in the HHC and later a room that was occupied by a SSG who made his rank in his first enlistment and hung himself in the room because he had a security violation in the Publication & Visual Aids Dept. The violation was not worth hanging. I escaped KP because I was involved in some social activities at the Fort including becoming the Boy Scoutmaster. Since the committee chairman for the troop was the IG, my focus was on work as it was and on other things which led to my getting a direct commission. I remember Karson’s Inn and McMahon’s steakhouse which was close to the rear gate by the Wherry apartments, and taking the bus to downtown Baltimore. Spent some time at the Enoch Pratt library and John’s Hopkins. There was an Italian restaurant by John’s Hopkins called Joe Tess’s ro something like that, and the owner hated dark skinned people and carried a pistol in his cumberbun. One of my pal’s was a draftee from Perth Amboy, NJ and was Sicilian and I am sure a member of the family as was his Dad. We went into this Italian eatery and Joe asked him to leave, before getting an earfull in Sicilian tainted Italian. Lots of memories.
    All that is left of Holabird now is the officers club and pool. Even the restaurants I mentioned were torn down. McMahon’s was special because the t-bones were good and cheap. We made so little money compared with soldiers today that you had to spend wisely. Gone is the Fisher Body plant as well. All of that was a part of my young life.

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — August 9, 2010 @ 3:30 pm

  339. Restaurant correction: The Italian restaurant close to Little Italy was owned by Danny Canalas (sic), not Joe Tess. There were a couple of fancy places on Eastern Avenue as well, one whose walls were covered with artwork. The Inner Harbor was still loaded with ships and old sidewheeler packet boats that ran between Baltimore and Norfolk, though I do not know if they were still in business. I spent some time on the FTX committee of the school and we did some training exercises with the diesel submarine in the 9th Naval District, tied up by Fort McHenry. Does anyone remember the wooden Q-Boat assigned to Holabird with an enlisted crew. The ships master was a SSG.

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — August 9, 2010 @ 4:29 pm

  340. Marc,I remember the Q-boat,I pulled night watch on it in Nov.66. See comment #187.

    Ed. Hotchkiss

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — August 10, 2010 @ 3:47 pm

  341. Ed – I just read your entry #187 and found it interesting. We used the Q-boat for training missions to the Vietnamese village we built at Fort Howard, which was an old coastal artillery fort and had a VA hospital. We also did some night infiltration training using a diesel sub from the Navy who had a minimal crew of reservists operating the sub. I remember when a Navy shipbuilding crew chartered the Q-Boat for a holiday weekend cruise. There were Navy officers and enlisted men on the Post, working on the stretching of two ammunition ships at Maryland Shipbuilding & Drydock Co. These guys were tough to say the least. Anyway, the boat left Dundalk with the Army crew and went south on the Potapsko River and then the Chesapeake Bay. Monday morning, the Post Commander, Colonel Major, received a call from the USCG that our boat was foundering close to Capt Hatteras, and everyone on-board including the crew were drunk. One of the engines was out of service and the deck was loaded with beer cases. The USCG said they would tow the Q-Boat back to its pier but they were going to charge Fort Holabird for the cost. The boat’s captain as he was was demoted to an E-5 and moved to the motor pool and the boat had to have some serious repair work done on it which the Navy paid.

    Fort Howard and the training village was an experience unto itself, especially when we had WACS involved. Best regards! Marc

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — August 11, 2010 @ 9:37 am

  342. Marc-thanks for the Q-boat story,I got a chuckle out of it!
    Ed. H

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — August 11, 2010 @ 7:34 pm

  343. In late 1965, I arrived at Holabird and began 97B40 training. I spent so much time writing names down in the years thereafter, I developed a very poor memory. Seeing many of the instructors’ names in these posts jogged my memory…somewhat.

    The only classmates I remember from my 97B40 group were Wilson F., S. Ganoli (Dude, you totaled my VW when I let you use it for a “hot date” one night!) and “Tex” whose real name also escapes me.

    F. ended up in VN… was maimed by subjects of a CI investigation who targeted a claymore at him an his associates. Last time I saw F. was in Charleston, SC 10 years after I left the Army. He was paralyed from the waist down but had become a local expert on reconstruction of historical buildings. (Is there any way to locate other classmates?)

    One poster mentioned an instructor who “hated communism.” That name “rings no bell” but the information I learned in his classes at Holabird still serves me well today. I’m thankful for this patriotic and educational aspect of Holabird.

    (Quite frankly, I’m blown away when I now realize what a formidable educational institution was assembled at Holabird. No-one ever mentions the value of military-based training when comparing educational fasilities.)

    Most memorable moment? The “Rabbit Chase” that began “on the block” shortly after the “blizzard of ’66. What a trip… I still laugh when I think of everything that happened!

    Oddly missing in these posts are any references to our nation’s “political history” of the last 30+ years.

    The collective memories of what Holabird “alumni” have learned and observed (and the lessons learned from your experiences) could be far more valuable to our nations’ citizens than anything they can possibly glean from the words of our “politicians” and politically-biased agenda-driven “journalists.” …Especially in light of current events in our nation. What you’ve seen in other countries can offer much-needed perspective today. Speak out!

    I was transferred from Holabird to the 3rd MID in Wuerzburg Germany whre I served until being discharged in August 1968. Sent to German language classes at the intelligence school’s Oberammergau location.

    I grew to love the German people and their culture and have since become an evangelical missionary focused on the Germans living in the “new German states” that were formerly the East German Nation.

    (Anyone worried about the direction of our nation would benefit from the curricula of Holabird….. I’ve ended up studying much about the Stasi… The KGB trained secret police. Read recent news about 12 Russian agents? Check out this eye-opener and ask “Why Not Here?” http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,635230,00.html)

    Thank you all for serving!

    Thanks for the memories!

    Comment by Dan Scarborough — August 15, 2010 @ 3:21 pm

  344. After reading about the Q-boat, an interesting memory about one of our “exercises” was triggered. For some reason, all of the members of our group were not tasked to the “Viet Nam Village”… but we heard an interesting story about what happened there.

    In our group there were two agents who were named “Brown” and “Jones” … real names. Looking at both standing together one would think either “Laurel and Hardy” or “Mutt and Jeff.”

    Seems Brown and Smith were assigned to interrogate a VC suspect at the village. While in a room there, they found out that their VC was a “bomb-maker.” They began delving for more facts and asked him “How he made the bombs.”

    Their suspect was a very cooperative, “creative,” and innovative VC. He quickly agreed to show them “how.”

    Subject: “Give me that shoe box!” Jones quickly responded. “Now, I need a rubber band and a pencil!” Brown was able to help out with that request.

    The “Subject” placed and doubled the rubber band around the box, carefully inserted the pencil… then wound the rubberband several times with the pencil.

    Then he announced “This bomb is now armed… Don’t make a move or I will blow us all up!”

    Jones was sitting at the table with the suspect and was unable to react quickly before the Suspect let the “rubber band detonater” begin spinning, but Brown jumped out the doorway. Since he was the “survivor” of the “bomb blast” he had to “write the report.”

    Brown’s report was admirable (considering that all he had to “shoot” the VC Subject was his inoperable pistol and loud voice… His discription of the events and the “sounds of war” were memorable.

    Somewhere in the annals of Holabird is an agents Agent Report, undoubtedly kept by Frau Kleck as an example of accuracy and brevity.

    Brown’s AR recorded the above details very accurately… including the “sounds of the conflagration.” He succinctly closed his AR with the following words:

    “…Subject grabbed bomb. Brown jumped out door. Brown drew weapon, pointed same at Subject. Brown went “Bang!” Bomber went “Boom!” and we lost Jones!”

    Great theater… Thanks to Holabird.

    Comment by Dan Scarborough — August 15, 2010 @ 4:01 pm

  345. Evidentaly spelling was not one of the subjects in this great educational FACILITIES!

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — August 18, 2010 @ 12:36 pm

  346. Response to previous comment(#345).Colgate Creek’s bubbly should not have been consumed.

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — August 18, 2010 @ 3:16 pm

  347. Where was spellcheck when this site was created?

    Mea Culpa!

    The old Underwoods were not similarly equipped either.

    Comment by Dan Scarborough — August 18, 2010 @ 8:23 pm

  348. Although I was at Holabird in 1956, I thoroughly enjoy reading about what came about before and after,(spelling glitches and all) My brother was also there, in 1966 and spoke of the submarine etc. He ended up in ‘nam, and then returned to Holabird as an instructor. He would take his survailance class to White Plains for an exercise, and enlisted our mother to stand on the street corner with a newspaper under her arm waiting for the correct password to susrrender the document. Afterward they would all go to our house for dinner. A fine time was had by all, and they made mom an honorary member of the facullty, with a framed certificate, signed by the CO.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — August 19, 2010 @ 10:39 am

  349. My recollection from 1967, is that the typewriters were all German made Olympias. Great machine.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — August 19, 2010 @ 6:13 pm

  350. Spelling “glitches” are a perfect subterfuge for undercovers. Really hides your “smarts.” Stupidity is a great cover. How is that for a great rationalization guys.

    Class of of “57”

    Comment by manny — August 20, 2010 @ 5:47 pm

  351. Manny, we could have used a man of your talent in Munich in “56, 57,& 58.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — August 20, 2010 @ 7:22 pm

  352. Bill Yantis where are you????

    Bob Davey

    Comment by BOB DAVEY — August 20, 2010 @ 8:18 pm

  353. We did have Olympia’s when I was at Holabird from 63 to early 66. One of the reasons Colgate Creek would smeel in the Summer was due to the yeast plant that was on the edge of the property. The Rinso Blue laundry soap plant would do something on some summer days that would blow blue soap granules that would get through the screen in my room and lay on the little desk that my roommate, Sp.4 Joe Foster and I shared. Since we had no air conditioning, the hot Summer nights were miserable with the odor from the yeast plant and whatever else was floating in the air.
    I was involved in surveillance training for a while and we took students downtown. We used the Hochschild Kohn department store as a place to train, with one instructor being the subject of surveillance and the trainees following them around the store without raising any suspicion as to what they were doing. An instructor who knew the trainees would surveil them and grade them. One cold wintery evening, my partner and I finished the day and dressed in suits and carrying our ID’s and .38, were waiting to be picked up front of the Baltimore Bullets arena on Baltimore street which was getting busy because a game was going to be played that night. We are standing there freezing, and a rookie cop comes up to us and arrests us for scalping tickets. Of course we said this was nonsense and did not identify us as Army and working, since he wanted to talk like a lawyer. So, without frisking us, he marched us over to one of the famous Baltimore Patrol wagons who took us to central booking not far away. Well, everyone was being processed and when it got to us, this rookie tells the sergeant that we were scalping tickets and acting suspicious. The sarge asked us for ID’s and we pulled ours and presented it to him and he was very, very surprised as was the rookie. We told him our story and then put our 38’s on his desk. Needless to say, he became furious at the rookie who was suspended for awhile, and he got a cruiser and driver to take us back to Holabird. The Main Gate MP’s were surprised to see us in a police car and everyone had a big laugh afterward but not the police. Interesting times!

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — August 22, 2010 @ 9:14 pm

  354. Marc,

    When did this occur as we Headquarters folks used to laugh about some of our inept agent trainees. The suspicious person arrest where apparently more common than just your groups. Now I realize that the trainees may have had equals on the Baltimore police force. So much for TV’s “Wire”.

    Comment by manny — August 23, 2010 @ 8:38 am

  355. The Bird and the mock Viet Namese village at Ft Howard:
    Groups from Holabird training classes would go to the village as interrogation participants. The young LT’s would practice grilling us. You should have seen the flushed looks on their faces when we pulled fake explosive devices from under our clothing as the interrogation was ending. End of final exam.

    Comment by RF — September 2, 2010 @ 7:41 am

  356. I found this website last week on the 40th anniversary of ETS. I joined the Army at 17. I was 4th generation army (even my mother had served as a combat nurse in WWII.). My brother was in VN and my sister was somewhere over there, so it seemed the right thing to do. After basic at Dix (I had turned 18) I arrived at Holabird. Same bus ride as you except I was motion sick when I arrived and some guy tried to steal my duffel when I was trying to find my way on to a bus. I remember descending into a cloud when we got to the fort and the smell was something else even though it was January, 1968. It was Friday so they dropped my in casual company barracks. On Saturday I am wandering around and I come into a dayroom and there are all these guys lying around singing “George of the Jungle” to the Saturday morning cartoon show. Once I found out there was not much to do I hooked up with a bunch of dependent kids riding bicycles down the old jeep ramps (probably the closest I ever got to getting killed). A couple of days later some old corporal (they said he was a MOH recipient but he never wore anything) took me over to the barn to help him with some WWII records destruction. When I told him that I didn’t know if I had a clearance yet, he said he knew I was ok so it was ok. Go figure! Then we found out the schools were backed up to they dispersed a whole lot of us to the domestic operations for OJT training that never materialized because of the Rev. King assasination. After that it was all Garden Plot. I spent the next thirty months at the 108th HQ’s trying to wash the block, 1,2,3 club and some energetic ladies out of my system. I met some of the greatest and most intelligent people during my time in. I thank God that I saw how things really work. Hope all live long and prosper.

    Dave Edmonds

    Comment by David W.Edmonds — September 6, 2010 @ 2:07 pm

  357. Dave,

    What was “garden plot” and where and what was the 108th Hqs.?


    Comment by manny — September 7, 2010 @ 6:27 pm

  358. Manny, I believe the 108th MI Grp was headquartered at Ft Devens, MA. Before Vietname, I was assigned to Region 1, 108th MI Grp in NYC and I believe our Grp HQ was Ft Devens (Devins?) No info about “Garden Plot”

    Comment by Steve Schein — September 10, 2010 @ 9:34 am

  359. Manny, Go to this link for details of Garden Plot. If you Google it, there are numerous sites:

    Comment by Steve Schein — September 10, 2010 @ 10:36 am

  360. Steve is correct. The 108th MI Group was headquartered at Ft.Devens, MA. It covered all of New England and New York. I was an Agent in the New Haven FO, CT. We were in Region III, with Headquarters at the Boston Army Base, which was really just a big warehouse converted into office space on a pier across the water from Logan Airport. Region III covered CT,MA,NH,VT and Maine. As I recall, there were FO’s in Hartford,CT;Providence, RI; Boston, as well as New Haven. There might have been one in Springfield,MA,and one of the larger cities in Maine. I think everything else was covered by small Agent office’s. I can’t remember where Region II was, but I think upstate NY. As Steve noted, Region I was NYC, lower Westchester County and Long Island. I know there was a FO in Garden City, LI, but I think everything else was covered out of the Regional office.

    “Garden Plot” was the government’s plan for the military to cover domestic civil disturbances, which evolved into campus and anti-war demonstations and anything else that came close! Here is a web site explaining it: http://www.uhuh.com/control/garden.htm


    Comment by Frank Pavlak — September 10, 2010 @ 10:50 am

  361. Dave and Steve,



    Comment by manny — September 10, 2010 @ 4:25 pm

  362. Region 1 of the 108th was headquartered on the 13th floor of 26 Federal Plaza in Manhattan. When we were there, the FBI was at 201 E 69th St. Now the FBI is at 26 Federal Plaza and I’m not sure where the MI unit that covers NYC is headquartered. The NYC Field office was also with us there. Additionally, we had field offices in Brooklyn (at Ft Hamilton), in Bronxville, in Newburg (at Stewart AFB) and on Long Island in Garden City at the Marine Corps facility on Stewart Avenue. I may have missed a field office as it has been 40 years since I was “Scoping out” PSI investigations for the region.

    Comment by Steve Schein — September 10, 2010 @ 8:00 pm

  363. Steve – thanks for jogging my memory. I had forgotten about the office in Bronxville. When I first got to New Haven my territory was the Greenwich, Stamford, Norwalk area and north above Danbury. I remember if we developed a lead immediately over the “border” we would first have to call the adjoining FO before venturing into their area! After a few months I switched to what we called our “big” area from just east of New Haven to the RI border and would have to do the same thing with leads and the Providence FO.

    We actually has a piece of the NYC territory with Fisher’s Island. Although it is part of NY it was easier for us to get there than Agents from NY. I only had a couple of occasions to go over there and rather than taking the ferry I would get a ride with the Coast Guard out of New London!

    One of the guys in my Holabird class (9/4/68), Jim Picinich got stationed in Garden City, but was moved into NYC. Sounds like he might have been there when you were. Also, a guy in my high school class, Pete Smith-Johanson, was in NYC at least in 67 & 68, then went to DC. Wonder if you knew either one. There was another guy in my class who was stationed in NYC, but can’t remember his name – I will have to find my old address book.

    Thanks for jogging my memory.

    Comment by Frank Pavlak — September 10, 2010 @ 9:26 pm

  364. Hey Frank, Was stationed at Region 1 from 1970 to 1971. Some of the names I can remember are Capt.Don Truxell (Truxall?) New York FO and Captain Finney, Rgn 1 Hdqtrs.
    Lts Stan Mesnick and Paul Hessel (Hessel?)were both attending law school and assigned to Rgn 1.

    Bob Harding was at Rgn 1 and Bill Hartry was at the Brooklyn FO(an old timer when I was there.) He helped me to get reassigned there from G-2 office at Ft Hamilton where I worked for Maj General Walter M. Higgins. I was the general’s liaison officer to the Post Office and helped to put together the operation plan for Operation Graphic Hand, when the Post Office went on strike and National Guard was called up to move the mail (post office to post office, not to deliver to homes). I wound up spending the better part of a week living at the main NYC post office across from Penn Station. Bill Hartry introduced me to LTC James Wensyel, CO, Region 1 who helped to finagle me over to his command. Also wound up (with a little help from him) assigned to LTC Wensyel’s command in Vietnam (3rd Bn, 525thMI Grp Bien Hoa). Great guy to work for.

    Comment by Steve Schein — September 11, 2010 @ 8:47 am

  365. Going back to 354: This happened in 1965. Do you remember the Emergency Reserve Force, made up of HHC personnel who were to defend Baltimore if the USSR attacked us? I worked in the G3 Training Division, with Col. Carter as the G3, SGM Wolsak as the senior NCO. My buddy Bill Hyndman who was a draftee went to the 974 program with me and worked for Wolsak. The Training Division was led by one of the meanest looking men I ever met and yet one of the best who ended up being a mentor: L/C Uldrich H. Pettine. One of the sharpest “reserve” officers we had in the Tng. Div. was Capt. Charlie Scanlon, who was an EM and then went to the University of Miami and back to the Army. He retired a few years ago as an O-8 MG in the intelligence services. Col. Bernard P. Major was the Deputy to the CG of the Intelligence Command and Center, and later became the Post commander. Great man. I later went to work for a big guy, Col. Cook, who was the Intelligence Command IG. I remember in 1964, one of the first serious planning meetings at Holabird regarding Viet-Nam. Nobody, including the Publication & Visual Aids Dept. of the school, had a map of Viet-Nam or SE Asia. The senior officers were incredulous. While they went through regular channels to get the maps, Col. Cook postponed the meeting until a couple of guys who were detailed to go into downtown Baltimore to a map store, to buy some maps. Interesting times.

    Comment by Marc Kostolich — September 14, 2010 @ 7:44 am

  366. http://classicrings.com/mercantool/catalog/Army/branches_and_command/AR-28.html
    I got my ring in July 09 and now the price has gone up $120 probably due to hikes in gold prices. Wish now I had chosen the diamond option.

    Comment by John Washington — September 21, 2010 @ 6:56 pm

  367. I would like to contact Sidney Beauford Scott of Virginia who was in my class in the Spring of 1956. Can anybody help?

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — September 22, 2010 @ 12:12 pm

  368. Reference Comment #333,seeking information for Silver Star Citation – CWO2 Mary Bender. Recommend that you try the following web site: http://www.homeofheroes.com/valor/replacement_metals.html

    Comment by John M. Cone — September 26, 2010 @ 6:25 pm

  369. Stationed at Holabird Oct 59/Jan 50. Attended the Photo Interpreter’s class. MOS 969.3. Stationed with the 8th MI Detachment, Bad Kreuznach, Germany through Jan 1963.

    Comment by David W Craig — September 27, 2010 @ 4:48 pm

  370. Re. #367: Buford lives in Richmond, VA. Business is Scott and Stringfellow at (804)780-3233.
    Charlie Larus (Holabird 1954-1955)

    Comment by Charlie Larus — September 30, 2010 @ 7:46 pm

  371. Wow. What a great story. My first duty station out of Boot Camp was at Camp Pendleton, CA in August ’66. The following month, I received orders for USAINTS at Ft Holabird. I was only 17 at the time and asked why I was being sent to an Army base. I was told that I couldn’t attend the Navy Air Intelligence School because I was going to VietNam soon and would be with the grunts. Hence, my orders to USAINTS at Ft Holabird. I attended the Intel Analyst class. Interesting educational experience, but very different culture on the base. Lots of draftees plotting in the barracks at night as how to resist anything Army. They tried to influence me, but I had a really mean Marine SSgt who made it clear I was to stay the hell away from draftees. Like the author, I thought this place was the Twilight Zone. Very, very different. Thanks again!

    Comment by John Gonzales — October 2, 2010 @ 1:18 am

  372. For some reason I remember the Fort Holabird library – a well-stocked place for an Army post and a nice quiet place to read. A fellow 97B, Scott Settle, made good use of the library and also that bar that was right across the street from the front gate, the Holabird Inn.

    Comment by Gerald Petievich — October 2, 2010 @ 12:40 pm

  373. I went to IPW training at Holabird in Nov 1965-Feb 1966, was previously for 10 years an engineer who lucked out and went to DLI for Bulgarian. Got to know the OIC CPT Warnicke and have seen him on an off here in Seattle at church on Easter every year. Lived off post with wife and kid. Spent the next 17 years in MI mostly in Germany with 18th MI.

    Comment by Art Farash — October 4, 2010 @ 12:04 pm

  374. Hi guys,

    I find it very interesting after so many years to remember the MI and to see that so many others do too. The 108th Headquarters Group was an interesting mix of Ivy Leaguers and Street kids who had tested well. A long timer said to me that the Army was a lot of crap, but what we had was a better grade of crap. Most of the guys were either finishing off their enlistments after being in Vietnam, or just lucked out and got to spend the whole tour at Devens. We were ED and that made us somewhat unpopular with the rest of the troopees. The CO (68-70) was a Colonel Robert E. Jones. A real stand-up guy, in since WWII, who took the time to offer fatherly advise to a kid who thought he was in over his head. I remember him telling me that they wouldn’t give us anything to do that they didn’t think we could do because failure wasn’t an option. He was a great golfer (rumor was that was why we moved the HQ from NY to Devens -18 holes of rolling hills through the woods). He treated us all right. Think of him still from time to time. Be well! Dave

    Comment by David W. edmonds — October 5, 2010 @ 4:51 pm

  375. I was at “The ‘Bird” from November 1968 to Feb 1969, in 97D Training, before shipping to Germany. Like the Author of this site, it was quite a nice change from Basic at Fort Dix. Too bad they moved the school to Arizona.

    Comment by David Merritt — October 6, 2010 @ 1:00 pm

  376. David(#374),

    What was/is ED and why “somewhat unpopular”?


    Comment by manny adler — October 6, 2010 @ 2:46 pm

  377. Manny,

    Exempt from Duty. No KP, no Guard Duty (although we did have rotating CQ at the Headquarters building after 6pm and on weekends), Separate Housing (on the Fort), an open Pass that we could use anytime we were not required to be in the HQ building, a lot of time in civilian clothes and fast rank (I went from E-1 to E-5 in thirteen months and six months later went before an E-6 board – Didn’t get it because I was not open to reinlistment). There was resentment from some of the other 12,000 military on the Post. It was also an ASA training center and the “ditties” (code guys so called because you could hear them orally memorizing the morse code) didn’t like the fact that they did not have any of our privileges. But then, we had responsibilities, as part of our job, that they could never imagine (refer back to Garden Plot and think of the assasination of Rev. King, The Democratic and Republican National Conventions, the anti war movement and the civil unrest in the cities). Also,
    daily, one of us had to hand deliver to the Commanding General (two star) an intelligence report that he got the very next day through official channels. He liked that service and treated us right. And, let’s not forget all that running all over the place on currier duty. Very interesting times.

    Be well,


    Comment by David W. Edmonds — October 7, 2010 @ 4:50 pm

  378. 1962, my father, retired as a Lt. Col., CIC, there and I, inducted into the Navy as an E1 in 1973 at Holabird. Still remember the Base Nursurey, an o;d Quanset Hut with a stage that may have been hopes for more.

    Comment by James Rinehart — October 11, 2010 @ 9:17 pm

  379. Charlie, thank’s for Buford’s phone#. Ed

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — October 15, 2010 @ 2:57 pm

  380. I finished basic and arrived at Holabird in Feb ’67. I had to wait a few weeks for the 96B class to start, so I was assigned to various work parties. I was lucky to work with an older civilian guy nicknamed Cotton. He was great and didn’t work us too hard. After finishing the 96B course, I thought I would go straight to Vietnam, but instead got orders to HQ I Corps (Gp), G-2
    (Uijongbu, Korea). Finished that tour and went to Bragg, 14th MI Bn. Vietnam finally caught up with me and went to 204th MID, Phu Bai. Too Holabird disappeared. It was a unique post and should have been preserved as a historical site.

    Comment by Richard Wiegand — October 19, 2010 @ 8:09 am

  381. Rich,

    I have often wondered why so many people who were assigned at the 108th HQ stayed there unless they stood up and said “I am over here, come and get me for another part of the world.” Aside from those who were coming after posting to Vietnam, almost no one left to go overseas unless they volunteered. Lots of the folks who commented above had lots of overseas assignments. I wonder if they all voulunteered or if it was just the spin of the wheel? Just curious.


    Comment by David W. Edmonds — October 20, 2010 @ 3:18 pm

  382. November 22, 1963, yep that is correct, the date left Ft. Jackson, SC bound for the bird. a small town west georgia boy, who was leaving home for the first time to go into the army. after my basic training i was sent to Fort Holabird, bound for who knows what. I certainly did not. Upon arrival at Ft. Holabird, I was bunked in, and assigned to the headquarters btn for the weekend and until my class was sue to start about 1 December. Of course you all remember that dreadful day. I was assigned to fire and clean the cannon at headquarters building every 4 hours in rememberence and honor of President Kennedy. I was there until May 1964 when i went to the Defense Language School at Monterey Calif. I graduated from the bird with a 97B4 and at the Language School got my l46 and then spent the next 15 months in Korea, followed by a trip to Ayer, Mass at Ft. Devins. that had to be the most informative and exciting 3 years of my life. I remember the Rabbit and Hounds, the wrong way down a one way street, going up the down escellator, and the trip to teh “Block” a country boy from Georgia really got and education. love the trips down Memory Lane, the education from the troop of actors, and the classes from the Judges. everyone should have that opportunity in their lifetime. would not have taken the world for it. j. bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — October 21, 2010 @ 3:05 pm

  383. Arrived at Ft Holabird in July 68..attended the 97B course and then onto Newark NJ with the 108th MI Gp. Loved my time there…when assigned to casual before my class started, ran into to the company clerk who sat next to me in a few classes in high school. So, got the plum assignment of typing a stencil for some manual, a paragraph a day, then free for the day. ETS in Apr 71 and went to work for the G wherein the training I received was put to great use.

    Thanks for the site…brings back wonderful memories except for the aroma from Colgate Creek.

    Comment by Vince — November 10, 2010 @ 6:31 pm

  384. Did this site cease to exist as of 11/10/2010 ?????

    Comment by BOB DAVEY — November 29, 2010 @ 5:42 pm

  385. Bob(#384):

    I hope not!

    Comment by manny — November 30, 2010 @ 3:04 pm

  386. I’m still here Bob;glad to see Manny is too.Ed Hotchkiss.(187),(323),(340)&(342).Class R11,(Feb.67).

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — November 30, 2010 @ 4:01 pm

  387. I still check almost every night.

    Comment by bill — December 1, 2010 @ 12:23 am

  388. I was in church in around the time Senator Kendey was diagnosed with brain cancer. When the prayers after the sermon were done this old guy announced we should remember Senator Kennedy as they both were at Ft. Holarbird in the intel school in 1951. I met him after church and he told me Edward was sent there because of the influence of his father. I was os shocked to even hear someone mention Ft. Holarbird as I had the same experience of finding the place in 1966. I served my entire time at Ft, Holarbird as a draftee.

    Comment by Roger — December 1, 2010 @ 9:37 pm

  389. Roger:

    I wonder what Senator Kennedy did at Holabird?


    Comment by manny — December 2, 2010 @ 5:22 pm

  390. I found this story on quite a few sites.

    Kennedy enlisted in the United States Army in June 1951.[9] Following basic training at Fort Dix, he requested assignment to Fort Holabird for Army Intelligence training, but was dropped after a few weeks without explanation.[9] He went to Camp Gordon for training in the Military Police Corps.[9] In June 1952, he was assigned to the honor guard at SHAPE headquarters in Paris.[2][9] His father’s political connections ensured he was not deployed to the ongoing Korean War.[2][10] While stationed in Europe he travelled extensively on weekends and climbed the Matterhorn.[11] He was discharged in March 1953 as a private first class.

    If you Google Kennedy/fort holabird there are a lot of sites.

    Comment by bill — December 3, 2010 @ 1:13 am

  391. Happy holidays to all old Holabird grads. Nearly 40 years after the Bird faded away, it’s great to see so many have positive memories of this special place. We may not have had all the fancy high tech gear back in the Cold War-Korea-Viet Nam era’s, but we were good. Special greetings to all in the 97-96, 9668-9666 MOS groupings. RF

    Comment by RF — December 13, 2010 @ 7:29 am

  392. How I got into Military Intelligence. At the age of 17 and right out of high school I went to join the U.S. Air Force. I wanted to be a air police officer. The Air Force Recruiter had a sign on his door “OUT TO LUNCH”. The Army recruiter was in so I stopped into see him and asked him if I could try to become a helicopter pilot. On the way down to Pittsburgh, Pa. to take some tests there were other guys on the bus talking about Nike Missile sites in the Pittsburgh, Pa. area.
    My next trip back to see the Army recruiter I found out that I missed passing the pilots test by two points. I asked the recruiter about the Nike Missile sites and I had to sign up for four years and I got to pick where my first duty station would be in the Pittsburgh area. I got stationed 15 miles from home.
    After a few months at the missile site I got wind of how they were always on their toes about Military Intelligence testing the security of the base. A recruiter used to come to the base every now and then and I asked him how could I get into military intelligence. I had 11 months in and I had to sign a paper to extend my time back up to 4 years. I made
    spec 4 with about 10 months in and in July of 1968
    I was off to Fort Holabird to become a 97D Military Intelligence Coordinator. I wanted to be a 97B Counterintelligence Agent but I was only 18 and you had to be 21 years old. Another man in may class was
    also a spec 4 but had been to Vietnam and had more time than me was in charge of the class. He took half of the class and I took the other half when we had to march to class. While marching over a bridge
    with the first part of the class the head spec 4 did not call break step march and I did not either and we
    had that bridge rocking up and down. Their was a Marine Lt. hanging onto the railing for dear life.
    Needless to say he called me back and I got my ass chewed and I had to show him how to correctly march over a bridge. Over half of the class got orders for Vietnam and in October of 1968 we got to see each other again at the replacement center at Bien Hoa.
    They sent too many MI coordinators over to Vietnam and we spent a month there unloading baggage from trucks that were bringing in new replacements. When they finally found some slots I volunteered to stay.
    Some guys had to pull straws, short straws lost and they stayed and the others were sent to other countries. I was sent to the 525th MI Group and did 3 months in Nha Trang and 9 months in Pleiku. I extended for 2 months and after that I put in for a 6
    months extension. My Commanding Officer said to me “why don’t you go to school to become a agent”. I told him that I was not old enough. I turned 20 in Vietnam. He said put the paper work in and lets see if we can get your age waived. My extension paper work and the school paper work came back the same time and my CO told me to pick which one I wanted. I took the school and in January of 1970 I was back at
    Fort Holabird to attend the Counter Intelligence Agent course. I was still a Spec 5, I had turned down a promotion to E6 because I did not want to go back to work at battalion HQ in Nha Trang. There were a lot higher ranks in this class than me a Spec 5. Two unusual things happened while attending this class. They used to have a stage with a two way mirror. When you were on stage acting as you were in a real situation trying to get the paid actors to make things go your way a Special Forces person bit the head off a rat. I don’t know where he went after that. The other thing that happened was, there was a Buy U.S. Saving Bonds poster in the stairwell of our barracks with President Johnson on it. Someone wrote
    really wanted to know who did that. The person turned himself in and he was not longer a classmate.
    When I graduated I was sent to the 902nd MI in Washington D.C.. HQ was actually in Virgina. When I reported there they took one look at me (I looked like
    I was 14 or 15 years old at the time) and they said we
    have an attachment over at the Pentagon. I ended up with the Pentagon Counterintelligence Force. I had to live off base and I made SSG/E6. We wore civilian
    clothes and I held three positions there. ON the day shift I was the third highest ranking person in our
    department. On the second shift I was second in rank and on night shift I was in charge. One evening on the second shift we got a call from the U.S. Special Police that a suspicious package was found in the bus tunnel and they wanted one of our agents there. I sent a agent up and the first thing he did was kick the package. Needless to say the U.S. Special Police called back and we all had a bomb class to go to.
    One of our jobs was to make sure office doors were secured. If they were not we would go in and give the office a security check. We had coasters ( the things you put your drinking glass on) that had printed on them that the Pentagon Counterintelligence Force had been there. One night one of our agents put one underneath the locked door of the BIG TIME
    NEWS people. Needless to say that made Time or Newsweek, I don’t remember which one and it had an article about MI spying on the PRESS. I got out in
    January of 1972. I put 28 years in prison, I work there as a corrections officer and I am going to retire in March of 2011.
    Thomas M. Zangla
    Greensburg, Pa.

    Comment by Thomas M. Zangla — December 15, 2010 @ 9:19 pm

  393. I arrived at Fort Holabird, MD for the 97B training in Sept. 1970, and if I recall that the second to the last class before closing the “bird.” That was one of the most interesting courses that I have ever taken. I will always remember my class mates and some of the faculty. After finishing in Feb. 1970 I was assied to the 111th MI Group at the Charlotte Field Office, Charlotte, NC. After thirteen months of running basic PSI’s and subject interviews, I was assigned to the 502nd MI Group in Seoul, Korea. I have fond memories of the people that I encountered during my 17 1/2 years in the CI field, and unfortunately I do not have their addresses. However, if you think you know me, please drop me an e-mail at “polarisursus@yahoo.com”.

    Thank you.

    Comment by Joe T. — December 22, 2010 @ 12:38 am

  394. Merry Christmas!

    As an old guy with young children (I’m 61 and my kids are 6 and 13-and they have both been good as gold lately because the Man is coming tomorrow night)),I have learned to appreciate Christmas again. It is funny, when I was in service everyone seemed to appreciate the Christmas season. We saw it as a time to put our guards down and just enjoy each other in a more spiritual way. Then, we got PC and the world became generic holiday season. I live in a town that still celebrates Christmas on the town commmon-and invites everyone who want to join in to bring in their own particular sense of Religion. And, no one throws stones at the non-believers; they,re invited too. Something that I have noticed about this web site is that no one seems angry; no one seems dismissive; people seem to be in a philosophical frame of mind. If you are writing about the Bird you’ve been around a while and have had time to digest things. Anyway, so much for the back massage. I just wanted to share my appreciation for the stories and wish all good health in the New Year.

    Thank you all for being here. It is sometimes hard to find someone with a common frame of reference.


    Comment by Dave Edmonds — December 23, 2010 @ 6:29 pm

  395. Dave,

    Merry Christmas to you and all.


    Comment by manny — December 24, 2010 @ 4:44 pm

  396. Merry Christmas Dave and Manny.

    Ed. Hotchkiss

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — December 24, 2010 @ 11:40 pm

  397. Merry Christmas to all. The “BIRD” still soars!

    Comment by bill — December 25, 2010 @ 12:36 am

  398. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. Dave Edmonds’ post from a couple of days ago is spot on. Nothing negative on this site and that is a welcome change from what you usually run into on the internet.

    Ron Mahinske
    Birmingham, Alabama

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — December 25, 2010 @ 4:01 pm

  399. Reference my last post…..I was at Holabird during the Summer of 1967.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — December 25, 2010 @ 6:51 pm

  400. Merry Christmas and a happy, healthy, prosperous and safe 2011 to all who have left comments here.

    When I first wrote this post almost eight years ago, it was the last of series of posts I had written about basic training. I had no idea that it would attract the attention of so many excellent Fort Holabird alumni.

    I thank each of you for stopping by.

    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — December 25, 2010 @ 7:34 pm

  401. Thanks for starting it Jim, it has been fun. Always interesting posts loaded with memories.

    Comment by bill — December 25, 2010 @ 8:56 pm

  402. I arrived at Holabird on Oct 25, 1968 for a 97D20 class. Quite a culture shock from sunny Cali. Harleys was the subshop down the street from the American gas station outside the gate. I worked graveyard there for extra money. Does anyone remember the “Dundalk Dollies” that hung around the 1-2-3 Club. They were a wild bunch for sure. The two acting SGT’s that led the policing along Colgate Creek were Nava and Tinnea. I graduated from USAINTC in Jan 69 and was on a plane for Okinawa on Valentine’s Day 69. A fast and fun 3 yrs for sure.

    Comment by Scott Weldy — December 27, 2010 @ 2:31 am

  403. Hello, I found my way here last year (post 190)and it is amazing how many of our paths crossed and experiences so similar. I left the 115th LA Field Ofc in March 1967 for the 525th MID, Okinawa. Scott Weldy, was LTC John Mock still the CO? He had a DAC buddy who served as assistant, old timer but I cannot remember his name. We had one great time there, Club Cobean at Camp Kue, the airport and water watch for CSG in Naha, Naminouhe, Kadena, the Civilian Clubs, old CIC hands (Akemoto,Choi and others). Lots of stories and great times. Thanks

    Comment by Richard Duarte — December 29, 2010 @ 1:18 pm

  404. Got to Fort Holabird on 22 Mar, 1969 and graduated from a 97B40 class on 26 Aug, 1969 at 1330 Hours.
    The Dundalk Dollies were great. Enjoyed their company and a few beers at the good old 1-2-3 club for sure! I remember a place in town called The Latin Casino that wasn’t too shabby either. Spent the next couple of years in a two man resident office in Wausau Wi. To this day, I enjoy many fond memories Of the three years that I spent as a Special Agent with the 113th Military Intelligence Group.

    Comment by Robert B St.Amour — December 30, 2010 @ 1:38 am

  405. Post 403 Richard Duarte, I arrived at the LA FO in Sep 66 and was initially assigned to PSI Team #1. Later, I was on SI Team #5 with CW3 Jenkins as the Team Chief. I recall your name but am having a hard time with the face. What Team were you on? Also, I recall that LTC Sueda was the Region Commander, but the I do not recall the FO commander’s name.

    Comment by Ed Harris — January 3, 2011 @ 8:56 pm

  406. Richard Duarte comment 190: Col Mock was the CO. Cpt Wells, Lt Miklos, Lt Litvan were a few of the officers that I recall. Lonnie Moon was a tall black E-8 and great softball pitcher. We had a great softball team. I spent lots of time in Koza at the Tiger Club, Club Fawn, Goya Steamhouse, non-A sign bars, and the Cobean. Mr. Stone was the ranking civilian in the 526th. It is amazing how people in the MI cross paths a lot. Take care Rich.

    Comment by Scott Weldy — January 4, 2011 @ 1:29 am

  407. I am delighted I stumbled onto this site. After basic training at Ft. Dix, I reported to Ft. Holabird in August 1962. From there, with an MOS 974, I was assigned to the Boston Field Office, Region III, 108th CIC at The Boston Army Base. Region III’s HQ was in that office space as well. The Region CO was Lt. Col Robert H. Wurtz. (His secretary was a woman named Cathy Szachowicz.) His second in command was Maj. Theodore Chlapowski. The CO of the Boston Field Office was Capt. Paul F. Orr. His second in command was a 1st Lt. Robert McGowan. Other commissioned officers I remember were Capt. Robert Downey and a 2nd Lt. Boudreau. Some old timers there were Leo Belanger, John Sluscones, John Neary, Phil O’Connor, Fred Noonan and Stuart Bookman. Younger guys there included Paul Neri, Paul Roy, Don Gill, Doug Wheaton, Al Myers, Jim Fardy, Jim Maglio, Walter Gainey, Jim Southwood, and guys whose last names were Begley and Lyons. Good place to be. Great people to work with.

    From there I was transferred to the 526th INTC Det. in Naha, Okinawa. I was there from January 1964 to May 1965. The CO was a Lt. Col. named Finnegan. Other commissioned officers I remember were Maj. Kurata, Capt. Askins (G4) and Lt. Hollingsworth. The G3 was a CWO4 named Luce. Younger guys there included Paul Raab, Steve Abrams, Ed Hall, Ted Schmidt, Herb Moore, Jack Werner and Walt Breece. This unit was STRAC and nowhere near the fun as the 108th had been.

    Comment by Frank Davis — January 5, 2011 @ 3:06 pm

  408. Ed Harris (405)I am also having a problem with some of the names, I arrived at LAFO in March 1966 and served on several PSI teams, mainly in the Valley, before ending up on SI with CWO3 Suzuki (not sure). I believe that Field Commander was Maj Lusk and he had a hard time with some of the younger agents. Thanks Scott Weldy (406). I remember all of those places very well. I had a great time in Koza, Ted Stone and I became good friends, what a character. Thanks Frank Davis (407), I teamed with Walt Gainey on CE teams with the 526th. Thanks to all.

    Comment by Richard Duarte — January 6, 2011 @ 12:39 pm

  409. Revisitation ( see comment # 120 ) and so happy the site is still alive and well. As I read over the many entries I could only find 2 questions that went un-answered . .# 1 The bar outside the main gate ( to the left ) was Semenkows . . . # 2 The ERF was the Post’s answer to civilian crowd control. The Emergency Reserve Force were the guys in the chromed helmets in those Friday parades and provided the Color Guard.
    (I carried the National colors in it for 3 years ).

    Not much has been said about the 96D courses. I attended 60T6 at a time when the U-2 was being developed and was in the 502nd MI in Yong Dong Po, Korea when it first zoomed down the Chorwon Valley. I was there when the SR-71 blackbird made it’s appearance and got to interpret it’s product as well. I worked with cameras having amazing focal lengths and super optics. I was there for the start of the satellites and remained working with them through the 1980s when it came time to retire. My 29 years of photo ( now imagery ) intelligence allowed me to work with the cream of the crop advancing from E-6 through the Warrant officer grades and on to DAC status when I retired as a GS-14 with 40 years service at the age of 55… None of this would have been possible without the help, guidance and friendship of the myriad professionals I met along the way…I’ll be revisiting and would like to see more input from Imagery Interpreters to add to this treasured site. They did a lot to get us through the Cold War

    Comment by Jim Sprole — January 6, 2011 @ 3:15 pm

  410. Suggestion:

    Spelling out the acronyms would help some us old timers unless these are TS.


    Comment by manny — January 6, 2011 @ 3:59 pm

  411. Manny;
    The only acronym I find is DAC . . . Department of the Army Civilian . . . not in use much today as most civilians are DOD (Dept of Defense ) Sorrry about that

    Comment by Jim Sprole — January 6, 2011 @ 4:38 pm

  412. I was in a 1968 96D2T class. Loved the Bird and Baltimore. My Godmother was a Roman Catholic Nun at one of the elementary. They took me on a tour of the city including East Baltimore street pointing out which place to avoid as dangerous. I was recycled in basic at Ft. jackson because I flunked my PT test during the Mile run I had a case of bronchitis and my lungs cleared themselves over my CO’s boots. Missed my class by 3 days and had to wait for the next one. Casual Co. was great I started in the motor pool and did some dispatching then began driving between the Pentagon and and the Bird.
    Had a photometrics instructer who claimed the solution to the Nam Problem was to put all the leaders who were faithful to us on boats about 3 miles out then give Laos and Cambodia sea coast without changing land mass, then sink the boats. Some real strange folks there. Went to Fr. Meyers for some testing.
    From there went to 1st MIBARS Saigon. As we were signing in Maj. Korf came down and asked each of the 6 of us if we really wanted to work with photography. I asked what the alternative was and became an ARLO assistant. The guy who took my was medivaced out several months later. Maj Korf arranged a couple of “non funded” TDY,s in Bangkok. When I returned state side went to Bragg then to Hood to an equipment testing unit. My TS debreif from Bragg was missing so I spent 4 of my 6 months there just checking in in the morning then making myself scarce. Then took an early out to go back to school.
    I was one of those who enlisted to avoid the draft which was inevitable after loosing my college differment. Wanted to get into photography which was closed at the time but was talked into 96D II as an alternative that I could transfere out of after returning from VN. Little did I know it was a critical MOS and NO ONE got out once in.
    Still some of the Best times of my life. Met one of my best friends Norm Peterson from Denver CO. there. Haven’t seen him since he went to his detachment in Nam and later shipped home on a medical. Would love to get in touch with him.

    Comment by Bill Donovan — January 7, 2011 @ 12:23 am

  413. Just remembered: My brother was career army about 10 years when I enlisted. In BASIC when I found out I was going to Holabird I called him and asked him what he knew about it. He looked it up in an “officall” guide to the Army Posts, it Read: “Mysteriously placed in the lower industrial disrict of Baltimore, Fort H. is the U.S. Army Intelligence School.” It had one the shortest if not the shortest discription of all the posts.

    Comment by Bill Donovan — January 7, 2011 @ 12:47 am

  414. Richard Duarte(408): You were on Team 5(SI) when I arrived at the LAFO in Sep 66 and I believe you had already PCS’d before I was assigned to the SI Team. CWO Suzuki was the team chief, later replaced by CWO Jenkins. I recall Howard Pederson was on the SI Team and I still have contact with Jeff Hart who was on the LAC Team. CWO Ceceil Cheek was Chief of PSI Team 1 and a civilian named Hartman was also a PSI Team Chief. That’s about as much as I recall. I had many CI assignments throughout my 25 year Army career, but none more interesting than LAFO.

    Comment by Ed Harris — January 7, 2011 @ 11:57 pm

  415. Re comment 412, 413 . . . Each class started with a bit of humor . . . some of it worked . . . remember instead ( please ) how comfortable you got , there for a while with the principles of Algebra, Geometry,Trigonometry and Oblique Geometrics . . . Your Photo Math Instructor

    Comment by Jim Sprole — January 8, 2011 @ 11:54 am

  416. My Father passed away in July 2009 & while growing up , I never knew exactly what it was my Father did.

    I have just received a few ( very few) of my father’s Military records 7 they mention he was and Interpreter & Translator but also an Interrrogator. I have also noted” PMOS EVAL SCORE AND DATE 96 ( FEB 71) on one of the documents & on others the letters: CONARC, CoB USAINTS Ft. Holabird, UUSAG WSMR N MEX, USAIDSCOM washington DC, HHD USARV APO 96307, Co A DLOWC Pres/Mtry Calif…..There are more but If anyne can explain to me what these mean, hat would be wonderful. My Fathers name was James Martin. He was a very, very light skinned black man. He was at USAINTC Ft. Holabird June 14, 1965 as a student & USAIDSCOME Washington DC Oct. 12, 1966, WSMR N MEX june 1, 1963 -1 June 1964. If anyone recognizes this info. or remembers my Dad, please contact me. TY so much!

    Comment by mauricette Caruana — January 11, 2011 @ 4:23 pm

  417. Mauricette Caruana,
    I know a few:
    PMOS – Primary Military Occupation Specialty
    CONARC – Continental Army Command
    USAINTS – United States Army Intelligence School
    USAINTC – United States Army Intelligence Command(or Corps, depending on what year).

    Comment by bill — January 14, 2011 @ 12:46 am

  418. I was one of the 1st WAC members allowed to train as a CI Agent. I arrived at “The Bird” around November 1964. I had to wait for my class [65B-8] to start. My class consisted of me and 49 guys from all over. While my friends had to march to class — I either walked or managed to get rides from other friends who were permanent party. After graduation they must have refused my continual requests for duty in ‘Nam. I wanted to go — really! I was already from the east coast — like Philadelphia. I wanted to see MORE of the world, okay? My world after school consisted of assignment to the Records Facility. I worked out of the office that had a direct line to the Pentagon. We processed records for them. I had this little stamp wherein I revoked security clearances based on info submitted by company commanders. Totally — a hoot! Because if the dirt submitted didn’t match the proper criteria — then I’d write back and tell whoever that they couldn’t revoke whats-his-name’s security clearance. Loved it!

    Comment by Juana Foy — January 16, 2011 @ 8:31 pm

  419. Juana Foy, have you checked out the Facebook page, Fort Holabird Alumni? There is a fomer WAC from class 65B-8. You might know her.

    Comment by bill — January 17, 2011 @ 11:34 pm

  420. RE: Post # 416 by Maurictee Caruana
    USARV is United States Army Reublic of Vietnam
    APO is Army Post Office and the 96307 gets the mail to his unit in Vietnam without telling the outside world what unit he was in.
    Co A DLOWC Pres/Mtry Calif was Company A of possibly some Weapons Command at the Presidio, Monterey, California
    WSMR N MEX probably refers to the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico where Atomic Bomb Testing had been conducted prior to the dates your dad was there.
    Hope this is helpful. Looks like your dad was into some pretty interesting and probably highly classified stuff. Good Luck

    Comment by Steve Schein — January 18, 2011 @ 8:00 pm

  421. RE Post # 416
    USAIDSCOME, Wash DC go to this link:

    And read Roman Numeral # II

    Comment by Steve Schein — January 18, 2011 @ 8:09 pm

  422. RE # 416
    USAIDSCOME, Wash DC go to this link:

    And read Roman Numeral # II

    Comment by Steve Schein — January 18, 2011 @ 8:10 pm

  423. I thought we had a good time in 1956. Sounds like it got a lot better.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — January 20, 2011 @ 3:20 pm

  424. testing

    Comment by ralph askin — January 27, 2011 @ 8:34 pm

  425. As draftee, Fort Holabird Sept 54 – Feb 55.
    Investigations and German language.
    66th Munich to May 56.
    Lived economy with wife and newborn son.
    Enjoyed all except the money.
    Could probably come wup with some names should there be interest.

    Comment by ralph askin — January 27, 2011 @ 8:44 pm

  426. Ralph, I guess I was following you around. I arrived at the ‘bird in April of 1956. went through the school and ended up in Munich. The 66th, Reg IV was then at 35 Schweriter Strasse. I think they moved there not long before we arrived. Were you there or out at McGraw? Had greatest time of my life in Munich, with a lot of time spent at the Seigersgarten in Schwabbing. Lt Col Himmelright was CO. Guys who were there for a while spoke fondly of a Lt Col Lorenz, a past CO. A very fine lady named Sallie Brittle was the CO’s Sect.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — January 31, 2011 @ 12:35 pm

  427. The arrival experience at the “Bird” could have been written by myself, especially the encounter with the MP. I was in class 58-B-2, graduated in November, 1957 and went to Korea. Was assigned to 191st CIC Det, 1st Cav. Came back to the “Land of the Big PX” in January, 1959 and after a short stay at Ft Meade, extended for nine months to get a FO assignement. Went to Philly Field and served under SAC Tom Weinstein; a first lieutenant at the time, who went on to wear three stars at ACSI for Intelligence and became a member of the Intelligence Hall of Fame. Served with a lot of great guys, had some wonderful experiences and would’nt trade my CIC service for the world.

    Comment by Bill Carroll — February 2, 2011 @ 12:56 pm

  428. To Ed Delehanty: Yes, the 66th Munich was at a little post Lowengrin Kaserne on Lowengrin Strasse south of the river when I arrived. Since we had a ton of classified stuff Col.Lorenz decided that we should move ourselves – tough job. My direct supervisor was Sgt. Case, a prince of a guy, and Lt. Foreman our office chief. Forman and I went through investigations school together as enlisted men, but he went to OCS and ended up in Munich sometime later, I’m sure he was there at the same time as you. I really enjoyed the Ivy league guys, very different from those of us from California.

    Comment by ralph askin — February 4, 2011 @ 3:07 pm

  429. Ralph, Denny Forman was there when I got there. He was a great guy (still is I hope.) I think I remembrt Dgt Case. All of those secret documents you moved got burned about two months after I got there. Someone decided that they should be destroyed and in the usual army procedure we started a large bonfire in the back yard. Some of the boys threw them out the second floor window and some gathered them up an put them in the fire. A wind came up with predictable results. Col Lorenz was gone when I got there, replaced by Lt. Col Himmelwright. Some say Lorenz left as a result of an IG inspection. I guess he was the nervous type as they nicknamed him Shaky. Col. Himmelwright is a story in itself which I may relate at a later date. Do you remember Sgt. Case’s first name? I am in e-mail contact with two or three guys who were there at the same time. I didn’t know Denny was OCS, I thought he was ROTC.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 4, 2011 @ 4:00 pm

  430. To Ralph. Was Sgt Case’s first name Roland? Some days my memory is better than others.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 7, 2011 @ 12:32 pm

  431. Great to find this site. I was at the Bird from Sept 63 to Jan 64. in IRO Class 64-H-3 with 47 others whose names I have in a graduation program I just found in my files.

    Comment by Bill Keck — February 8, 2011 @ 1:08 pm

  432. Wonderful site. I was at the Bird in the summer of 1968 attending a 97B40 class. I believe the class number was 68B20. I went from there to the 109th MI Group, with duty in Phoenixville,Pa and then Pittsburgh. From Pittsburgh, I went to MACV and the Phoenix Program. I was with MACV Team 49. It is hard to tell any one who was in the regular army about Ft. Holabird. They just don’t believe you.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — February 9, 2011 @ 3:14 pm

  433. Someone asked for mentions of casual duty assignments we received. I arrived a few weeks early in Aug 63 and did the usual filing stuff until a retiring colonel found out I was an advertising copywriter and assigned me to composing a “position wanted” ad for the Wall Street Journal. Then who remembers the bowling alley and a frosty NattyBo?

    Comment by Bill Keck — February 11, 2011 @ 12:59 am

  434. re 430 No idea what Sgt Case’s first name was.

    re 115 There were two enlisted marines attending investigations school in 1954, but not in my class. They lined up separately for rollcall and to march to class.

    re ? One of our platoon was a chrome helmet band member for the weekly parades. Don’t know how they picked him out. Once in Germany, never marched again.

    Comment by ralph askin — February 11, 2011 @ 7:12 pm

  435. Hello All. I am searching for information about the late Lt. Col. Isadore Max Belba. He served in the CIC from 1946 until 1968, or so. He spent some time stationed at Ft. Holabird in Maryland. I am working on a biographical study of Lt. Col. Belba.

    Comment by Mark — February 12, 2011 @ 6:13 pm

  436. I was in Peterson Kaserne from Jan 55 to when they moved to Schwerereiterstr. in town. Clerk-typist, I was nco in charge of intelligence contingency funds under Lt O’Brien, then Lt Sawyer. We had to compose the monthly report on what 66th CIC was doing in Munich. I also had a little sideline singing in several military contests and had a ball in Munich until I left Apr 57. I met many great guys there. For example, who remembers Howard Haas who always sang “Oh my name is Morgan, but but it ain’t J. P.”? Haas, by the way, died in Nashville, TN a couple of years ago.

    Comment by Roger Martin — February 13, 2011 @ 4:31 pm

  437. Roger, I will always remember you singing “Lowland Victory” in the Seigsersgarten. I have heard it on the radio a few times since and always think of you. Sorry to hear that Howard Haas died. I wonder where Erica and Strupka are now.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 13, 2011 @ 10:39 pm

  438. Ed Delehanty– who were Erica and Strupka? Did you also frequent Badevanne and Studio 15?

    Comment by Roger Martin — February 14, 2011 @ 1:12 am

  439. Yes I was a frequent visitor at the Badevanne and Studio 15. As I recall the Badevanne was off limits but I don’t remember why. Perhaps because it didn’t get going until after 2400. Erica and Strupka were two young Germand girls, sisters, who hung out with us in the Seigersgarten.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 14, 2011 @ 12:42 pm

  440. You know Ed I’ve been back to look for the Siegesgarten and I couldn’t find it. I think they tore it down.

    Comment by Roger Martin — February 14, 2011 @ 8:53 pm

  441. The Seigesgarten was torn down back in the 60’s. The first time I went back about 1962 it was gone but the Nachtoiler was still there and hadn’t changed very much.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 15, 2011 @ 1:48 pm

  442. Bill keck, RE: post #433, this is the 3rd time I tried to post this. I don’t think they want “links” but there is an interesting article on the Weekly Dundalk Eagle that will interest you.

    Comment by bill — February 15, 2011 @ 11:32 pm

  443. Bill Keck, the Eagle has taken down the story I was talking about. If you send me your e-mail address, I will send you a copy. It is about the return of Natty Boh to Baltimore. The article just happened to come out right after you asked about it. I remember the bowling alley, being from Boston, I was expecting “Candle Pins”.

    Comment by bill — February 17, 2011 @ 12:44 am

  444. Passed thru the Bird three times. Order of Battle-1958
    Intel Analyst 1963-Installation Security 1964. Shame noone mentioned the absense of Blacks in Intel. I was the only one in the 182d MI at Fort Bragg the only one in most fo the J2, G2 and S2 assignments including SF.
    Waited 5 years to get served at the Holabird Inn hung out around the corner at the Holibird Cafe or the bar on the other side of the tracks in Dundalk. Only one in Area Studies Bad Tolz. Our Intel Analyst was the one in attendance when Kennedy Got shot. My colleagues refused to drink at the Holabird Inn without me so I took them to the Black bar in Dundalk-no problem we had a ball until the news came on saying JFK had been shot. We all put down our drinks and went back to post.
    We had a ball at the Bird the young agents-to-be watched us and we watched them. Some of us had been in the Vietnam since 1957. The Harbor VC village was a joke. One of our guys for realism, tried to do one of the Viet Cong WAC cadre. We did leave our mark and some great stories.
    Great site, brought back some good memories but some sad stinking thinking for me. Not being able to get a drink in a flop joint across the street from a US Army post got me thinking about To Die For…..It was always hard for me being a Smoked Yankee from RI and Maine.
    Retired and ended up as an Education Center Director in Germany.

    Comment by wild bill ramsdell — February 25, 2011 @ 2:39 am

  445. Fort Holabird Photos:

    If you’re interested in photos of the Bird there are
    three very good books with pictures of Holabird, 1950s, 60s, early 70s. The books are part of the Army Lineage Series, written by John Patrick Finnegan. They can be purchased on the inter net and can be found at some libraries. The first book is “Military Intelligence” 437 pages. There’s also “Military Intelligence A Picture History”,195 pages and “The Military Intelligence Story, A Photographic History”, 153 pages. There are Fort Holabird photos in all three books and authorized CIC-MI history. Face Book also has a page for posting Bird photos under Fort Holabird Alumni. Great books and pics for old Holabird grads.

    Comment by RF — February 27, 2011 @ 5:55 am

  446. Does anyone remember taking survailance training and going up to White Plains NY to practice? My mom was the gal who stood on the corner with the newspaper under her arm waiting for someone to give her the correct password. My brother Steve ran the problem. Mom got a certificate making her an honorary member of the Ft Holibird faculty.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — February 27, 2011 @ 7:13 pm

  447. “Great Site” Brings back alot of great memories. I was at the Bird attending the 97B40 class from August 67 to december 67. Then went to the DLIS for 47 weeks of Vietnamese at Biggs Fl, El Paso,TX. Hated that place after being at the Bird.The only good thing about it was that I got to play ball on the baseball team and the soccer team. Went to Nam next with teh 541st MID assigned to the 11thACR (Blackhorse. Great Unit. Got pulled to work TDY as civilian status with the Office of Special Assistant to the Ambassador(OSA) on the Phoenix Program. The Bird had the best training of any school I have attended before or since. Instructors were all top of the line.

    Comment by Nick Bruich — March 1, 2011 @ 5:06 pm

  448. Re:#443. Actually, Bill, I did find the article about the return of Mr. Boh (in keg and draft) in “The Dundalk Eagle.” Thanks for the tip and the offer. My assignment after leaving The Bird was…interesting, but it was state-side and so-o “civilian.” Every one of you has stories more exciting than any of mine—except, maybe, the one about a forced landing in a chopper while conducting security checks among the Nike-Hercules installations in our area.

    Comment by Bill Keck — March 1, 2011 @ 10:55 pm

  449. Nick Bruich, did you read #273? Do you know Harlan Lunsford? He was with the Phoenix Program.

    Comment by bill — March 2, 2011 @ 1:02 am

  450. Most of you remember Fort Howard as a training area for counterinsurgency operations et al. What I remember, from the Winter of 1963, was a bivouac one drizzly, freezing cold weekend. I still maintain that the freighters out on the bay were at higher elevation than the floor of our tent.

    Comment by Bill Keck — March 5, 2011 @ 11:23 pm

  451. Imagery Interpreters, 96D, (aka Squints) who ended up serving with 1st MIBARS at Bragg or across the Nam, there is an active reunion effort and website to find your buddies. Go to: http://military-intelligence.wikispaces.com/1st+MIBARS
    And yes, Holabird was an “out-of-Army” experience. I was in Class 67-CB-05; and I’m sure told like the previous class we wouldn’t we heading off to Nam. Well it turned out untrue. Here’s to Holabird Inn, Harley’s and the Dundalk dollies at the Rec Center dances.

    Comment by Dave Iverson — March 6, 2011 @ 8:52 am

  452. Great Site!! Found it while wondering about taking some old “Bird” Orders to Fort Huachuca for their Museum. My brother Ed (Edward Evans) and I were Second Lieutenants in Class B-270 with Lt. Barry Bonoff (See Comment #154) from 5 Jul 54 through mid-November 54. (General Campbell called us “The Golden Horde,” as we were the first all-Officer Class to go through Holabird.) There were 39 of us, as I recall, and 38 graduated. (We had all been together the summer of 1953 at Fort Riley, KS for ROTC Summer Camp along with a much larger group of ROTC/MI folks from all over the USA.) Brother Ed, who now lives in New Hampshire, has given me a copy of every Order he ever had, so we have some history available, particularly for Region XII, 66th CIC Group, where Ed and I both served with Myron Johnston (See Entry #206.) Later today, I will be in touch with “Pete” Long, who was our Region XII Photo Tech in 1955-56. Pete is USAF Retired now, and lives in Chandler, AZ. I hope to see him for lunch in the next few days. There is also an effort underway to get former members of Class B-270 back in touch. We had a 45th Reunion (as I recall) in Maryland some years back. Dick Murhphy is working on the details. I’ll check with him and see what he might like to share.

    Comment by Frederick N. Evans — March 6, 2011 @ 6:51 pm

  453. I was stationed at the Bird (USAINTS) from 1960 to 1962.
    I would often walk around wearing a Russian Uniform.

    Remember that skinny Gen Prather who during Sat. Morning parades rode a jeep with chrome all over it ?

    We would go to town and get plastered (Howard St) It’s a wonder that I made it to 73. God; that was so many years ago.


    Comment by Walter R. Illston — March 7, 2011 @ 5:37 pm

  454. Walter(#453),

    Must have changed days for the General Campbell and Prather’s parades. Back in our day it was always late Friday. God how we permanent party complained. Anything remotely military sent the “bitch” quota through the roof.


    Comment by manny — March 8, 2011 @ 4:32 pm

  455. I stand corrected; the parades were Fri. afternoon.

    I noticed Ft Howard was mentioned. We would drive out there about once each month. In the summer, we would take our lunch, and then swim in the Chesapeake Bay ( We called it “The Baltimore Sewer” ). In the afternoon, the class would arrive, and it was time for us to do our thing. We would get captured and be interrogated by the students. If the class was made up of officers; we loved to play harmless tricks. Putting a black snake in a sack, or M-80s in the concrete bunkers with a trip cord, etc. It was all part of the training.

    Comment by Walter R. Illston — March 9, 2011 @ 5:06 pm

  456. Holabird Trivia. Ever wonder where they got the name Holabird? I am reading a book about General Walter Bedell Smith and came across the fact that one of his first assignments after WW1 was Ft Sheridan, Illinois.
    It states that the Fort was designed by a “soon-to-be renowed firm of HOLABIRD AND ROCHE which received its first major commision to design the fort. This was back in the late 1880s. I’m guessing that this is where the name came from. I’m sure that this information will enable you all to sleep better.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — March 18, 2011 @ 4:45 pm

  457. Ed(#456),

    Named after a General Holabird, I believe something to do with the Transportation Corp. This may or may not help us sleep better depending on our obsessive natures.

    Comment by manny — March 18, 2011 @ 6:22 pm

  458. OK Manny, sounds logical. Maybe they were cousins.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — March 21, 2011 @ 9:28 am

  459. Manny, you are absolutely right. I Googled General Holabird and found he led an illustrious career before, through and after the Civil War. He made many great improvements to the Quatermaster Corp.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — March 21, 2011 @ 1:21 pm

  460. I trained at Holabird from Oct 63-Jan 64. Then stationed at New York FO off East 16th Street and Union Square in NYC from Feb 64-July 66. I conducted PSIs all over Manhattan, finally specializing in midtown. Also did inspections, interrogations at Governor’s Island. Other FOs in Region 1 at the time were Brooklyn, Garden City, Westchester. The building on East 16th is now occupied by NYC welfare and social service agencies, I think. Great website here. Brought back lots of memories of NYC as well as Fort Holabird.

    Comment by Tom Gentle — March 22, 2011 @ 11:15 pm

  461. I CAME TO THE BIRD IN 68. I was never good with names (info a strong point) so i cant remeber the names of the people i was with. i graduated in oct 68 went ther in aug 68. i kept the list of the grads and orders where they were deployed from our class for many years – gone now. i was givin sp4 (96b20) out of the bird and went to korea, partly because the pueblo release.
    i remeber the jerk off marines that were in our class – they thought marching was a condition of intelligance.
    i had a personel confrontation with one. a future green baret canadet backed my play and after 4 or 5 months in the army i had an interview with the base commondant. we sort of won. the lance corpral become the class leader the gunny become nothing. the confrontation was about classes on saturday and marching to class. my contention was let them fail if the test scores were bad – better to reject them now then kill us later. we still had to keep together but it was no longer camp lajune – ha.

    Comment by joseph e milutis — March 29, 2011 @ 11:53 pm

  462. Tom #460
    Spent a happy year+ at the New York FO in 1965.

    Do you have any memory of me or my buddy ‘Ed Smilowitz’? We were both from Staten Island and used to commute every day to 16th street.

    I didn’t realize it at the time but that FO had a very ‘unique’ cast of characters.

    Comment by John Major — March 31, 2011 @ 4:07 pm

  463. Post #462: John Major were you ever assigned to the 115th in Denver?

    Comment by Ed Harris — April 2, 2011 @ 7:22 pm

  464. John Major, did you know Capt Rintz or Fred Norton at the NYFO?

    Comment by bill — April 5, 2011 @ 11:12 pm

  465. Post 463, Ed Harris. I am John Major who was in Denver as the Operations Officer, Region V, 115th MI Group. John Chipman was the CO of Region, later killed in automobile accident. I also was the FO Commander of the DFO. I am not the John Major in post 462 in the NYFO. Ed were you at Group HQs?

    Comment by John Major — April 16, 2011 @ 8:19 pm

  466. I left a post last night…do not see? Should I repost?

    Comment by Richmond Castano — April 18, 2011 @ 2:15 am

  467. See Greg’s post #163 above as I served with all these guys as a 96B in Phouc Vinh with the (1st) Air Cav. I just don’t remember them at Holabird? I do have fond memories of the Bird but they are very very patchy. Coming out of basic training from Ft. Jackson where three trainees died from heat exhaustion the Bird was paradise! I did mature fast as an 18 year old experiencing the the bar across the street, the “block”, being ripped off by gypsies, and the crab beer halls on the waterfront.
    All with “Hey Jude” as background music. For me, the AIT advanced Individual training for becoming an Analyst was as rewarding as it was difficult. I did learn an important lesson in the shallowness of human nature nature. As I was developing a friendship with a classmate when he found out it took me three attempts to pass the map exam he simply stopped associating with me.

    Comment by Richmond Castano — April 18, 2011 @ 2:58 am

  468. Odd how you make such tight bonds with your Army buddies but like Greg mentions we just loose contact … So if any of you guys especially Ron Conte finds this post send me holler ! richmond@twinleather.com ~ and Greg what IS the rest of the STORY ?

    Comment by Richmond Castano — April 18, 2011 @ 3:15 am

  469. Richmond (#467),

    Good news. You passed this one first try. We made those map overlays at “training aides” back in the fifties. Now I least I know what they were used for, torture devices for trainees.


    Comment by manny — April 18, 2011 @ 3:14 pm

  470. To Wes Lorenz: I see from your comments that we attended 97B training at Ft Holabird at the same time (November 1968 to March 1969). However, we must have been in different classes because most of my class went to Vietnam or Vietnamese language school followed by Vietnam. Myself and the student who sat next to me were the only ones assigned to Korean language school at Monterey followed by a tour in Korea.

    Comment by John Lawler — April 18, 2011 @ 3:32 pm

  471. I did basic at Fort Jackson in 1968 and then assigned to Fort Holabird in November 1968 for 97B counterintelligence agent training. Our initial barracks were the old wooden WWII barracks that had character. Then we were assigned to the red brick muti-story barracks. Our class leader, just back from Vietnam, was a Marine sergeant who was a wonderful leader and a gentleman treating us all with respect. I also recall going for pitchers of beer and playing darts at a pub directly across the street from the post’s main gate. I remember it being called the “Blue Bird Inn.” I returned to Ft Holabird in 1993 to revisit the fort and found it had been converted into an industrial park. The only landmark I could find still standing was the Blue Bird Inn. The school was great. I recall the lock picking classes, the typing classes, the Soviet system classes and the interviews of the actors. Moscow where? Oh, Moscow, Idaho. Always had to remember to ask specific questions. And then there was the Vietnamese village we had to infiltrate and interrogate the villagers. Lots of booby-traps set up to catch us. I also remember standing formation in the mornings to the smells of Colgate Creek and then marching to class in formation carrying those black “Airway” government-issued brief cases instead of a rifle. Left Holabird in March 1968 for DLI Monterey for a year of Korean language training followed by a tour with the 502nd MI Bn in Korea.

    Comment by John Lawler — April 18, 2011 @ 4:38 pm

  472. Post 465: John Major, I was the SAIC of the Casper,WY,RO, in 1972, and I remember meeting you in Denver sometime during that year. I believe you were a captain at the time. I also remember John Chipman. He visited me in Casper on one occasion during the year I was there. Those were the good old days.

    Comment by Ed Harris — April 18, 2011 @ 9:29 pm

  473. I don’t check in at this site as often as I should. I noticed that a guy who worked for me in Chicago’s FAFO sent a “reach out” note last Summer. Bob Davy if you see this let me know. I’d like to catch-up. This site is really great. One of the very few ways that INTC people can stay in touch.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — April 22, 2011 @ 1:22 pm

  474. Post 472: John Major, I was going through some my old military records and found my first OER as a WO1. You were my rater and John Chipman was the reviewing officer. Yes it was a max OER!

    Comment by Ed Harris — April 23, 2011 @ 5:14 pm

  475. I just discovered this fascinating website. Barry Bonoff (see Post#154) and I were in Training Group B-270, which General Campbell dubbed the “Golden Horde” because we were a unique group. All of us had just graduated from college and received our commissions through the ROTC. We received orders to report directly to the Bird, which we did on 7 July 1954. We received training as Counter Intelligence Corps officers. Everybody stationed at the Bird had to march in the Friday afternoon parade which General Campbell reviews. That meant that each company was swollen with officers beyond its normal strength (I recall as many as four, perhaps five, ranks of officers in a company. After completing our counterintelligence training, at least half of our group, including me, remained at the Bird for German and Japanese language training before shipping overseas. I served in the 441st CIC Detachment in Tokyo, Japan for 5 1/2 months and the 308th CIC Detachment in Seoul, Korea for about 11 months. I was separated from the Army in July 1956 at the Oakland Army Terminal in California. In October 1999, 23 out of the 31 surviving members of the Golden Horde had a three-day reunion in Washington, DC, which I, with the help of Dan Goggin, organized. It was a memorable occasion during which we swapped stories about our time at the Bird as well as about of our various assignments after leaving the Bird. I hope that Barry Bonoff will see my post because I have been trying to reach him to no avail.

    Comment by Dick Murphy — April 26, 2011 @ 9:51 pm

  476. The rate at which this site is growing is impressive. I was at Holabird from Feb. ’65 to June ’65 taking the basic course and then the CI “9666” Course. There is a lot to recall but my most vivid recollection is getting three other large guys into my VW Bug and driving in a car pool to the post. How did we ever do that? Four of us all came up from Ft. Benning where we had completed the Infantry Officers Basic Course. We all went to the basic intelligence course. Two of us, George Gore and Nick Hanson, went to the II course. I went to the 9666 course along with the final car pool mate whose name was Dick Marler. Gore and Hanson went to DC to do II as the VN build-up started. I went to the 113th Region 1 Chicago and I can’t recall where Marler went. Gore was a lawyer from Cleveland so I suspect that’s there he went when he got out. I’ve completely lost track of these guys and that’s too bad because they were terrific people. When the lunch break occurred we all beat a rapid pace to the little Officer’s Day Room which stood all by itself in a corner of the post. The attraction there was a pool table where we played 8 Ball every day from Feb. to June. Good times, good place, good men and many thanks to the fellow who built this wonderful site.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — May 1, 2011 @ 5:44 pm

  477. I was stationed at Ft. Holabird,WAC 69-72. Went through the 96B20 course and then was assaigned to Intell Command. Met my Husband Bob Moubray there! He was an MP. Great Memories! This site is absolutely wonderful. I have so many stories, makes my heart full of joy to read the posts. Thanks

    Comment by Rebecca (Bennett) Moubray — May 1, 2011 @ 7:41 pm

  478. Thank you so much for this site, which I only just stumbled across! My Dad was the Commandant (I believe) of the CIC School from July 1955 to April 1958. Col. Thomas Larner. I was aged 13 to 16 and had a ball on the post – drove a car for the first time on the post (underage, no licence). I have just made contact with a friend from those days, which is what inspired me to look further afield. Our Boy Scout Leader was named Kennedy and also ran the post’s greenhouse – great guy.

    Would love to hear from anybody with memories of that time.

    Comment by Bill Larner — May 1, 2011 @ 8:52 pm

  479. Bill(#478),

    We overlapped. See my posts and you get the Holabird from the “peon’s” view. You may have been the kid who almost hit us with dad’s car (of course we were slightly older kids).

    We need a roll-call of all past posters to see who is still out there in cyber-space. By the way, intell really shone Sunday as did the Seals. Manny

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 2, 2011 @ 4:04 pm

  480. I am looking for an annual for the 4th student battalion Airborne Fort Benning Ga from 9-8-1972. This is for a client that is having a tough time right now. I know this will help his spirits. Any ideas where I might find a copy?

    Thanks in advance,

    Comment by Cheryl Gentry — May 2, 2011 @ 9:39 pm

  481. Hi Manny,

    I have read quite a few of the posts on here. Interesting to get the different perspectives on life at Holabird. I thoroughly enjoyed it as a teenager. There was Scouts, with access to all sorts of Army equipment, eg. jeeps, for the driving of. Teen Club on Friday nights. Rifle Club on Saturday mornings. I spent a lot of time at the O Club pool in summer – got the nickname “Froggie” for my troubles. A US Army bus picked us up and took us into Baltimore to school every day – complete with an Army minder on board to make sure we didn’t play up too much.

    It wasn’t me! I never came close to hitting anyone with the car. But glad for your sake that it was an “almost” kind of thing.

    Yep, good work on Sunday. Overtones of Operation Eagle Claw in 1980 during the Iran Hostage Crisis when there were multiple helicopter failures. Hope more details of Sunday’s event are made public.

    P.S. To whoever runs the website, thanks, and keep up the good work!
    P.P.S. Also many thanks to the other Bill for posting the video of Holabird on YouTube. Wonderful memories.

    Comment by Bill Larner — May 2, 2011 @ 9:48 pm

  482. Manny(#479),

    Still here,I check this site several times a week; it’s genuine and feels like home.We have special people here.My past posts are(#187,323,340,342&396)My best to all of you! Ed.

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — May 2, 2011 @ 10:11 pm

  483. Bill/Manny (#94)

    The pool was definitely there 1955-58. Right next to the O Club. If you do a Google Earth of the Holabird area, you can see the outline of where the pool was, just on the eastern boundary of the building that is now the VVA Chapter 451. (Longitude 39° 16’01.84″N, Latitude 76° 32’04.77W)

    I was part of the “teen laughter” Manny mentions. Small world!

    Comment by Bill Larner — May 3, 2011 @ 4:30 am

  484. RE#94, There was an enlisted mans pool at the far end of the post, next to the bowling alleys. This was in 1965-1968. The officers had their own.
    There is a picture of 3 WAC’s on FaceBook standing at the pool. At Fort Holabird Alumni, click on PHOTOS and check it out.

    Comment by bill — May 3, 2011 @ 11:23 pm

  485. I graduated from “The Bird” in 67 and was assigned to the 116th MI Gp, Wash, D.C. Volunteered for NAM and was assigned to 5th Bn, 525 MI GP (McCarrick Compound) from 68 to 69 then was assigned as NCOIC MI Assignment Branch (97B) at the Pentagon. Made WO (in Oct 69) and assignerd to 525th, Ft. Sam Houston, w/duty sta Corpus Christi, Tx. Reverted to E7 jn 1972 and reassigned to 701st MI Det, Ft. Bragg (worst unit I ever served in) and retired Nov 74. would like to here from anyone who was in the above named units.

    Comment by George Krisko — May 13, 2011 @ 7:25 pm

  486. I found this site while looking through my father’s bio. He attended the CIC class at Holabird in 1947 and was subsequently stationed at Camp Truscutt in Salzburg Austria, which is where I was born in 1948, and then on to Wiesbaden Germany. He doesn’t recall much of those days… getting a little senile… but it is ironic that I ended up working for USAFSS in Viet Nam many years later. Anybody remember Linton J. Bassett?

    Comment by Greyson Bassett — May 14, 2011 @ 11:23 am

  487. Arrived Holabird Sept 69 and was sent down to E CO (casual) until agent class started. I had worked for an asphalt company in the summers while in college. Colonel Leslie LaFon saw this on my personnel card and wanted to know if I could asphalt the walkways in E CO. He let me pick 5 guys and we spent about four weeks turning dirt paths into asphalt sidewalks. Kept us off any other duties until we were finished. Left the BIRD in May 70 and spent a year at DLI in Monterey studying Vietnamese. Then 10 months in DaNang
    Bob Rosenblatt

    Comment by Bob Rosenblatt — May 17, 2011 @ 11:13 pm

  488. Linton (#486),

    Aren’t we all,i.e., getting a little senile that is.


    Comment by Manny Adler — May 18, 2011 @ 2:53 pm

  489. Here’s a web link if you’re interested in MI-CIC, Holabird trivia, memorabilia. It’s a list
    of items located at the intel museum in Sierra Vista, AZ…http://huachuca-www.army.mil/sites/History/PDFS/catalogmi.pdf

    Comment by RF — May 19, 2011 @ 8:52 am

  490. Post 477, Rebecca (Bennett) Moubray, My name is Bill Morrissey, I am trying to locate a WAC that was stationed at Ft. Holabird in 1968. Her name is Mary Tilman. I would appreciate any help you could provide.

    Comment by Bill Morrissey — May 19, 2011 @ 2:08 pm

  491. Looking for BILL YANTIS, he can connect with me at bobdavey0406@comcast.net. Looking forward to hearing from him !!!

    Comment by BOB DAVEY — May 21, 2011 @ 12:27 pm

  492. I finished basic at Dix in ’67 and was assigned to USAINTS/ Fort Holabird in the fall of ’67. What a treat after basic. I had graduated from American University in Washington DC so I knew the area. I had a car and spent most weekends in DC. I got my orders for Vietnam in Dec ’67 as a 96B(intelligence analyst) and arrived in RVN, 90th RPL Depot 5 days after the Tet offensive in 1968. I got orders for the 10th PSYOP Bn in CanTho where I spent the next 13 months in S-2 under a LT Dunroe and others. I can be reached at msternbach@aol.com

    Comment by Michael Sternbach — May 23, 2011 @ 6:29 pm

  493. Hello my Name is Jeff Terrell I was at Ft. Ha Ha from late December 65 to 22 April 66 and was in class 66-B-14C and received an MOS of 97B40. Like everyone else has said what an experience, so much different than the regular army. So much more, wonderful instructors and great experiences and learning that has lasted a lifetime. From Ft. Holabird about half the class went to Nam about a third to Korea and the rest all over. One lucky person Russell Juckett went to Hawaii. I went to the 502 MI in Young Dong Po ROK. May 66 to June 67. And to POST 236 DAN RUNDELL we must have been there at the same time but I do not remember you. But I do Remember LTC Cogar a non drinker but present at the compound bar every night just to be with the guys not to keep an eye on them and LTC Strobridge who drank like a fish who was before him. Our bar was something else wasn’t it. Seen Full Birds turned away at the gate and bar girls brought in. Then there was Chubby Kim, Combat Kim and Day Kim our interpreters and Kimmy Kim one of the waitresses at our mess hall, mess hall like hell or restaurant. Dan you mentioned Ralph Stein he was the boy from NYC who had never driven a car in his life and I can not remember if he got a military DL or not. But as I recall later he was the one who made some bad remarks about army intelligence to the national press. Korea was a great assignement. From Korea I went to the 113 region 2 Kalamazoo, MI resident office as a S/A. One big FUBAR by the army. I did not ask for a hardship transfer or PCS but they stationed me 60 miles from my home which was in Jackson, MI. Got caught up in the riots of 68 and spent some time as liason with the Grand Rapids and Benton Harbor PD’s. Great duty at the RO. Probably should have stayed in or went to the CIA as I had an opportunity to do but instead got out and spent 31 years as a police offficer. Now retired and living in New Mexico. I can be reached at jhrst66@wildblue.net but could be changing to jhrst66@gilanet.com

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — May 26, 2011 @ 11:07 pm

  494. Forgot to mention the snow in Jan 66 it was nothing. Being from Michigan I was use to snow so two of us took my VW and hit the streets, we were the only ones out there, nothing else moving the first day.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — May 26, 2011 @ 11:12 pm

  495. Visited Ft. Huachuca, south of Benson AZ and South east of Tuscon in Feb 2010. They have a nice MI museum there. I looked for the Sphinx that at been at Holabird, plain as I recall, but all I could find there was fancy gold and blue I think were the colors. Wonder what happen to the original ones.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — May 26, 2011 @ 11:29 pm

  496. Sitting here tonight thinking of my friends from MI. Most of us were just kids. I remember once during the ’68 rioting, telling my section head that I was unsure what to do one night. I said I’m too young for this responsibility and he said to me that they wouldn’t put you someplace that they thought you couldn’t handle. I guess we all grew up fast during those times But in the end we really had pretty good duty compared to some of the other crap people had to put up with. Monday I am decorating the family graves: Civil War, Indian Wars, Spanish American War, Boxer Rebellion, WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. My 14 yr old son asked me recently if I would want him to serve. I thought for a moment and realized that all those in the family who had served before had never had a fatality. I wondered for a moment if maybe the odds were stacked against us now, especially with our seemingly never ending current war. But in the end I told him it would be his decision. I told him that I believe that everyone should serve their country in some way. But it would be his to decide. Now I know what my father must have felt like in 1967 when he had two sons and a daughter in the Army. Memorial Day brings this out in me every year. God Bless all of you and thank you for your service

    Dave Edmonds

    Comment by Dave Edmonds — May 28, 2011 @ 9:54 pm

  497. The last I saw of the original sphinx, they were at Fort Meade.

    Comment by Al Alvord — May 29, 2011 @ 8:15 am

  498. Best wishes on this Memorial Day 2011!

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — May 30, 2011 @ 7:05 pm

  499. I was a dependent there from 1955 – 1958. We were able to wander everywhere – never knew what was there, still do not so to speak.

    Comment by Stan Polonsky, Jr — May 31, 2011 @ 11:35 am

  500. Holabird Secret Memories

    I entered the army April 4, 1955, as a volunteer. Even with a college degree and some graduate work, it was almost impossible to land a decent job with the draft hanging over my head. The draft board said it would be about nine months before I would be called, so I volunteered in March. Then, in April at the physical in Chicago, I objected. They put my eyesight down as 20/200 uncorrected for each eye. (That was the worst they could put down and still take me.) Actually, my eyesight was worse than 20/800 in each eye. They claimed an outside doctor could not help me; they had to go by their own examination. They said, “We want you and we are going to take you!” So I became a “4F” in uniform and entered into a two-year battle with the army.

    My brother tried to enlist during WW-II and almost was accepted after a second examination. He was blind in one eye. Overseas I examined ARs and SRs and found: “If the vision in one eye is worse than 20/200 uncorrected, the vision in the other eye must be at least 20/50 correctable to 20/20.” Also, I saw the records of numerous peopls. Many of them had recorded vision of 20/200 for each eye, but none were worse. So they can adjust their findings according to their needs.

    I did my internship at Fort Leonard Wood. There I was given an interview for the CIC. My step-father, a Lt. Commander in the Navy Reserves, said the Navy’s definition of “CIC” was, “Christ, I’m confused!” I was asked to write a paper on the three branches of our government. Somehow I figured it out. Then we talked. He asked me a series of questions like: Who is the commander of this base? the secretary of the army? etc. To each question I replied, “I don’t know. He finally asked “Who is the vice-president? I hit my head and said “Wow, I should remember that! I saw him speak just two-months ago at the Univ. of Illinois. His wife’s name is Pat, he has two daughters and he is from California. But. somehow I can’t remember his name.” Then he said, “I was going to ask you who the president is, but I don’t wan’t to embarrass you!” Quickly I joked saying, “That’s easy. it’s Roosevelt!”

    While on vacation back home in Chicago, my step-father arranged for me to fly from Glenview Naval Air Station to Washington, D.C. It was my first airplane experience. I was the only passenger. The plane was a Navy jump plane with a long bench seat on each side and hook-up bars overhead. They handed me a parachute. I handed it back and said, “You have to be kidding.” They were, but I was worried all the way to D.C.

    At Ft. Holabird I had to wait over a month for a new analyst class to be formed. Our group was all privates, so we were told at least three times that they would have to select one of us to be the leader. We retreated to the orderly room and enjoyed a short talk by our first sargent. His name may have been Tanner. Then our CO entered to deliver a “”welcome” address. It may have been 1st Lt. Moran. We all settled back and sunk down in our seats for this event. I noticed the Sargent standing in the corner of the room looking all around at our group. I thought to myself, “Do I want to be the Group Leader?” I decided to go for it, so I sat up real straight and acted like I was paying attention! The Lt. finished and left the room. The Sargent was suddently in front of me pointing a finger directly at me. He said. “You! Do you want to be the Group Leader?” “Me, Sarge?” I replied. “Well, OK.” He sent me to talk with the Lt., while he talked to the troops. Leaving the Lt. I encountered the Sargent by the supply room. He informed me that he had explained to the group that my word was the same as his, that I was an acting sargent and that he would back me. I looked at him, three-stripes up, three down and a diamond in the middle. I said, “Gee, Sarge, does that mean I can go to the NCO Club in the evenings now?” When he finally recovered his composure, he stuttered, “No, I don’t think it goes quite that far!”

    My Mother and Step-father came for a visit and stayed in Officer’s Quarters. He was on a business trip and had to go elsewhere for a few days. So I talked to the Manager of the Officer’s Club and made arrangements to dine there with my Mother. I was requested to not wear my uniform.

    I had a problem with a molar, while at Holabird. A dentist cleaned out a cavity and put in a temporary filling. He said, “Try that. If it is still OK after a month, I will put a permanent filling in it I returned after a month and a different dentist took care of me. As he was getting started, I stopped him. I said, “That was a pretty healthy shot you gave me! What are you planning to do? He said, “I”m planning to pull that tooth.” I asked, “Why?” He said that it had a double whammy in it. I asked what a double whammy was? He said, “Two small cavities.” That was when I blew up! I said, “Like hell you’re going to pull it! Not for a double whammy. You can see all the work that has been done to preserve my teeth. My father is a dentist. I was accepted at Northwestern Dental School. I have lived around dentists all my life and I have never heard the expression, “Double Whammy,” previously! He filled the cavities.

    One of our group went to OCS (Officers Candidate School). At graduation he got confused and accepted his diploma in his right hand. Smooth as could be he saluted General Campbell with his left hand. There was a lot of laughing in the audience, but the General was kind enough not to let on that he had noticed it.

    One of our group went to the Republic of Panama. He could not take a uniform. What a great assignment. He may have served anywhere in South or Central America. Twenty-years later I spent six-years in Panama. I found my second wife there. The rest of our class was split. One group went to Korea and the rest of us went to Stuttgart. I crossed the Atlantic on a ship, while the others flew. The ship was the USNS General Simon B. Buckner (T-AP-123). The captain of that ship was later in the MSC (Military Sealift Command) and was the captain of the USNS Observation Island, T-AGM-23, an Air Force tracking ship. I took turns on it as a civilian, computer programmer. Our normal duty post was in the Bering Sea near Kamchatka, Siberia. It was part of the unratified, SALT II Treaty to help monitor Soviet missile development. We sometimes enjoyed a mid-cruise break at Adak, Alaska, in the Aleutian Islands.

    While at Holabird during the summer of 1955, two-year people were allowed in both schools. Sometime later students were required to extend for a third year at the conclusion of the agent class. In 1956 one or more students refused to extend. The word got around and soon whole classes were refusing to extend. In Stuttgart people started to arrive with a letter recommending the person be assigned administrative duties. These letters soon became printed forms. Finally, extentions were required prior to starting class.

    I arrived at the 66th CIC Headquarters (7915th USAREUR Liaison Group) too late one afternoon to check-in. My classmates were there and we went out for some drinking. After one to two hours of sleep, a practice, area alert sounded. We had to get dressed and go to the gym to sleep on the mats.

    There are many great stories from Stuttgart, but just let me say that many a departing agent or analyst left with tears in his eyes. We all recognized the unlikelihood of ever being associated with such a great group again.

    Hello to Charles Tilley, Tom Levy, John Sanders, John Gibich and many others. I would enjoy hearing from you at Nowslimmer32@gmail.com.

    Comment by Paul E. Johnson — May 31, 2011 @ 2:25 pm

  501. Stan (#499),

    Neither did we (“55-“57) and we kind of helped the place operate. Another question for some of you who sent through training (enlisted only here) at Holabird pull KP, guard duty, etc. only permament party have this pleaure. If so, this was the opposite of most oher bases. Just wondering..thanks.


    Comment by Manny Adler — May 31, 2011 @ 3:50 pm

  502. Stan #499. What ages were you when you were at Holabird? See my posts #478 and #481. Did you live on the post? I don’t recall a kid of my age named Stan??

    Comment by Bill Larner — May 31, 2011 @ 6:40 pm

  503. Test submt comment.

    Comment by Dan — May 31, 2011 @ 11:57 pm

  504. Wow! I’am impressed; so many comments re Fort Holabird. Now it’s my turn. Spring ’59 graduated Washington State College (now University); commissioned 2nd Lt. and off to Ft. H for the 9666 course via Fort Benning, where required to complete Infantry Officers Basic because the CG at Ft. H was tired of 2nd Lts right out of college treating Ft. H like it was a college campus and not following Army protocol. My class was the first to have to go to Ft. H via Ft. B. At Benning became close friend of Willie Brickhouse, the only African-American in our class. We socialized on base, but could not be together off base in Columbus, GA because of segregation. When we were about to complete our 9666 training our class leaders arranged with a well-known restaurant for a dinner party. Lined up outside the restaurant door with Willie standing next to me, there was an unexplained delay in entering. After we entered, we had an enjoyable time. Later, I learned that when the restaurant manager saw Willie, he would not allow us to enter. But, when our class leaders gave him two choices; let us in or watch us destroy your restaurnt, he chose the later, but charged extra for beverages. All of us, except Willie, reimbursed our class leaders the difference. Willie never knew this occurred. He was killed in VN when his helicopter was shot down. From Ft. H, I went to the ALS for 48 weeks of Chinese-Mandarin then to Korea, then Taiwan, then back to Ft. H for the Advanced Course. Because I married a Korean, I had to request a waiver to keep my badge and creds, which I received. I was a 05 when I retired after 20 years serving mostly overseas including VN and Iran. My civilian career was with Army Intelligence and then DIA (DHS) as a Case Officer. I avoided the Pentagon although one time came within a phone call of being assigned there. Looking back, I never intended to serve more than the required two years, but my time a Ft. H, the ALS (now DLI) and traveling the world provided a career I would do all over again. I loved the roll-playing; couter-surveillance and lock pick training at Ft. H; I still have the lock pick set issued to me.

    Comment by Dan Tompkins — June 1, 2011 @ 12:31 am

  505. I arrived at Ft. Holabird in l957 after basic training at Ft. Knox, and began the counterintelligence analyst classes with forty-plus others, almost all college grads. When they told me at Knox that I was
    going to Ft. Holabird in Baltimore, I was surprised since I grew up in York, Pennsylvania, only forty miles
    away, and I had never heard of Ft. Holabird.
    After completing the course, I then remained at
    Holabird for the rest of my two years. I was in the
    office of Col. William Law, who was head of the combat
    intelligence section of the school.
    I recall the Blue Bird Inn across from the main
    entrance to the base, and two nearby restaurants–Karsons and the Brentwood Inn. It may be that the
    Brentwood Inn was later renamed the Holabird Inn that
    is mentioned in many other comments on this site. They were especially proud of their old and extensive wine cellar that they delighted in showing off.

    I agree that it was a very relaxing place for an army post. Often we would change into civvies after
    five o’clock and head into downtown Baltimore to see
    Oriole games, plays, and concerts which we saw free because of tickets given us at the USO club on the base.
    I’d love to hear from Bill Hutton, Ralph Pataglia,
    Sam Keller, Norm Hoffheiser, or any of the others who
    I met at Holabird.

    Comment by Richard Thomas — June 1, 2011 @ 4:13 pm

  506. Dan Tompkins (post#504)
    Dan, were you ever the CO of 502nd in Korea? I was there from Sept. 66 – March 68.

    Comment by Steve Bostick — June 2, 2011 @ 7:17 am

  507. Hi,Steve.
    In 1966, I was CO of HQ Co, 502nd. Not my favorite assignment; but I learned alot. I was slotted for a field office, but about the time I reported for duty, the CO needed a HQ Co commander, and I was the newest arrival. Aloha, Dan

    Comment by Dan Tompkins — June 7, 2011 @ 4:13 pm

  508. Jeff Terrell (comment 493)
    I think I remember your name, but not sure of the face-might have a photo of you in my stuff though. What office were you in? I was in Liaison with Mr. Donald Fox, John Smart, Dick Larabee (I think that was his name), and George Koopman. Chubby Kim (Kim, Ho Kun) was my buddy and one of the 2 interpreters who resided on base. Ralph Stein is still in New York and is a Law Professor at Pace University.
    George Koopman is deceased and led a interesting post MI life. He is the last name listed in the credits for “The Blues Brothers” movie.
    I was at the 113th MI Group HQ from January 68 to April 69 and remember the riots and the Democratic National Convention demonstrations we followed.
    Tracy Compound was a unique experience!

    Comment by Dan Rundell — June 7, 2011 @ 9:07 pm

  509. Noting comment #508 Jeff Terrell was at the 113th as was I. I recently reconnected with a fellow agent from Region 1, 113th, using this site. I was there from July 65 to Sept. 66. My fellow agent was there before and after me. Perhaps Jeff Terrell recalls Bob Davey? Jeff, do you recall any other names from the 113th?
    Remarkable how 45 years fall away in a flash and I’m driving a ’64 nasty green Plymouth Valient. knocking on doors and checking LIDMC.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 15, 2011 @ 9:52 am

  510. Hey, everybody,

    I was in school and stationed at Holabird from March 1966 until early 1967 when I got so bored I volunteered for Vietnam. I remember Nick Nolter. We went to Spain together on a thirty day leave, ran out of money after five days and had to fly home in the back of a military air transport. That trip was a lot of fun. I also visited your home in Pennsylvania, playing poker all night in a bar that never closed. Look me up on facebook, Nick if you like. Also, are Mike Covey or Dez Gleason out there?

    Charlie Brooks

    Comment by CHARLIE BROOKS — June 21, 2011 @ 5:38 pm

  511. Message 149, July 2009, Caesar Rosales, you were in my class at the Bird. We used to call you ” RO-SALES “, your were a quiet compatriot. Can you shoot me an email at : JeffreyDGallant@yahoo.com? Glad you, Nick Pappas, and Rocco Nudo made it home, thanks… I have active contact with Brian Landry and Hap Walter Farrell. I am retired military since 2003 and still work as a department of the army civilian in the intelligence field.

    Best….. JEFF GALLANT, R-12, 96B, Fort Holabird, April 1969.

    Comment by Jeff Gallant — June 22, 2011 @ 5:41 am

  512. This is a great site and I will be back to share some memories. You guys hit the bull’s eye with your characterizations of life at the “Bird.”

    Comment by Wendell Williams — July 1, 2011 @ 3:16 pm

  513. Re #378. Would this be Bob Reinhart who served as a Major in Munich circa1956-57?

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — July 3, 2011 @ 6:06 pm

  514. Dear Patriots,

    I hope you are all enjoying Independence Day and wish good health and continued freedoms that we still have.It’s an honor to have been associated with Holabird personnel in duty and to the contributors to this site.We are a special group and I’m honored to be a part of it. God Bless you all & God Bless America!

    Ed. Hotchkiss Ref.# 187(R-11,Feb. 67)

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — July 4, 2011 @ 1:55 pm

  515. Ed et.al.,



    Comment by Manny Adler — July 4, 2011 @ 4:40 pm

  516. Happy Independence Day, Fort Holabird Friends and Family.

    You have no idea how thrilled I am that my February 17, 2003 post, to my surprise, has turned out the way it has.

    Again, thank you all.

    Comment by Jim — July 4, 2011 @ 5:46 pm

  517. Got to the “Bird” in late July 1964 for the agent’s course (971?) after a pleasant eight week workout at Ft Leonard Wood. After basic my orders were afoul as I was to go to Ft. A.P.Hill in Virginia [Transportation Corps – the thought of being a truck driver in the jungle did’t set well with me at all. Took a couple of days to straighten that out. Spent a week in New York City with a “freind” I met on the train from Chicago to Baltimore. She went on to Spain and I lost track of her. Place reminded me of college – very relaxed – very casual. Our “class” was picked to wear the chrome pots for each Friday’s retreat ceremony. Remember a fine bunch of individuals with so many different backgrounds I was amazed. Spent lots of time at a place called Minnicks (sp?)in Dundalk – good music and nice company. Assigned to Milwaukee 1964-1966 and then to Pleiku via Ft Bragg. Didn’t accomplish much for that tour. Came back to Oakland Army Terminal and OUT! I found out later that a great uncle had been assigned to Holabird when it was part of the Army Transportation Corps as a steam locomotive repair facility. Those were the old days but evidence of that service still existed in ’64. Drove past the place in the 1980’s and it was gone. Sad. I have many fond memories, even today, of the place

    Comment by Lawrence Gueller — July 5, 2011 @ 9:30 pm

  518. Jim, we can’t thank YOU enough! What a great site. We all seem to have had the same experience at Fort Holabird and the Dundalk area. I can’t believe it was 47 years ago and It still seems like yesterday. I check this site at least 4 times a week and can’t wait to read the new posts. Happy 4th and keep the posts flowing.

    Comment by bill — July 5, 2011 @ 11:43 pm

  519. Adding to my post # 500: Some of you attended the Friday Evening Post Dances. I figured that all of the girls there had been cleared, so I went to a bar across the street. One of my girlfriends there and I used to walk several blocks in the residental area of Dundalk to a neigborhood bar. Some of the people there used to do some of the most fantastic jitterbug dancing that I have ever seen. It was like a nightclub floorshow.

    Also. I went to the USO in downtown Baltimore once. I took a nice girl home. She lived near Johns Hopkins Univ., where one of my daughters graduated in 2000. I asked her if we were south of the Mason-Dixie Line since I had never kissed a Southern Girl previously. The warm kisses, which she gave me, made the trip worthwhile. She had warned me that there would not be another streetcar returning until morning. I had to walk almost all the way back to the downtown area before I caught a taxi.

    One of my great classmates looked a lot younger than his 22 years. So on Friday evenings he went to dances at a high school in Dundalk. He claimed to have a great time with those young girls. Sometimes I wondered if he was after the young teachers. We served together in Stuttgart. He spent his time learning German, while most of us were drinking the good German Bier.

    Comment by Paul E. Johnson — July 6, 2011 @ 3:34 pm

  520. After basic at Ft. Ord, CA (now gone to state), I was sent to Ft. Holabird, MD (in Dundalk area). That was April 1962. Berlin was hot between USA & USSR. Vietnam was just warming up. Ft. Holabird was the HQ of U.S. Army Intelligence (INTC) and the Intelligence School. Everything regarding intel was taught there. Photos, satellite, wire intercepts and defense against the other guys (USSR) snooping. I went through the Special Agent School. The term Army CIC (Counter Intel Corps) had just been retire in favor of the new title, INTC (Intel Corps). Our course was 16 weeks of learning interrogations, interview techniques, Russian forces, USSR government, Communism, Marxism, security procedures, etc. Due to the big USSR vs. USA Berlin Crisis, our course was shortened to 11 weeks. I was one of 11 graduates to be assigned to the 526th INTC Detachment, Naha, Okinawa, Ryukyu Islands (then a US territory). The Army General in charge was in charge of all US forces and the local government. We were his everything and did whatever the CIA would do. I worked in civilian clothes right next to an Army Major, he in uniform. He was the nicest man you could imagine and spoke Japanese fluently, knew all their jokes and songs and culture. Our jog was liasion with the local police. What fun, great lifetime experiences. Although only a private, then a PFC, I mixed with many who outranked me, but intel it is not like the infantry or artillery. My group I went over with is still in touch and next year we will have a 50th Anniversary reunion. We expect over 20 attendees. My last year in the Army I was sent back to Holabird as an Instructor. Nice assignment.

    Comment by Harold Patin — July 6, 2011 @ 5:07 pm

  521. Was at the ‘Bird from August 70 – November 70 (96B20). Spend a year at the 525 MI Group RVN and returned to Holabird until ETS June 1973 (US Army Europe section.

    Comment by John Vitikacs — July 13, 2011 @ 1:06 pm

  522. Still a great website. I check in several times a year to see if old Holabird and 502nd MI friends have found it yet. Not to many yet, but I will keep checking.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — July 15, 2011 @ 7:56 pm

  523. Hi. I live a stones throw from the area where Fort Holabird was. In fact the business park is still called Fort Holabird. I remember riding my bike through the hills there and sled riding down tank hill in the 1980’s. This is way after they closed. There was 2 to 3 buildings left. Eventually they were tore down. I drove through there about 2 years ago and now they lease part of it out for a community garden..Wish it had stayed a military base, but I assume it was too small. I have a question. My Aunt was a military groupie. Her name was Betty Atwell. She would of hung out around there from 1940 ish to 1960ish. She married a PAUL S. MILLER sometime in the 1940’s. Does anyone remember any of them??? Thanks and thank you for your service to our country.\


    Comment by Michelle Flory — July 23, 2011 @ 10:19 pm

  524. From my earlier post about PAUL S. MILLER,

    please feel free to email me @ shellf@verizon.net

    Comment by Michelle Flory — July 23, 2011 @ 10:38 pm

  525. I’m still interested in contact with anybody who served with Region 1 of the 113th INTC; especially in the mid-60’s. Also, has anyone run across George Gore or Nick Hanson, both of whom were in II and were at Holabird in 1965? I’d love to reconnect with them. Best to all old agents everywhere.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — July 26, 2011 @ 2:28 pm

  526. re: mssg 525: Bill Yantis: I was assigned to the 113th INTC between December 1964 and January 1966. I was assigned to the Milwaukee Field Office for that period of time.

    Comment by Lawrence Gueller — August 9, 2011 @ 7:43 pm

  527. re: msg #520 from Harold Patin. I just happened to check back on this site and found your recent post. Would like to hear from you.

    Comment by Mike Chiuchiolo — August 17, 2011 @ 10:32 am

  528. Great place (late 1969 to early 1970).
    As stated by others, very casual (my cousin was in town and bought a dozen crabs and two six-packs of beer, and came visiting me in the barack one night–no problem being let in!).
    Remember the Dundalk “Dollies” as we would call them.
    Hola-Burgers across the street from the front gate.
    Was a 97B40 Counter Intelligence Agent.
    Remember the two actors that helped train us in conducting interviews for background investigations–Peachy Keen and Peter Poor. They were very good.
    Remember “The Block” . . . .
    98 percent of us went to Viet Nam or Viet Nam language school–I went straight to Nam and ended-up assigned to the Special Operation Branch, 4th MI Company, 4th Division where I performed 97B4o duties and the 96C duties of running informants for 6 months. Got in a jeep with my two interpreters every day and drove-off into the sunset looking for information.
    Spent the next six months on a MACV Advisory Team and started it by going to Vung Tau for the Pheonix Program training–it was a wild ride.
    Made one mistake: Had the brilliant idea of not taking any R&R until my last 2 months, thinking that I would be busy going and coming from R&R in the 11th months and that I was protected by the unofficial (30 day) short-timer rule (under 30 days, women and childen went on operations before you did!). The stress of the last few months, prior to going on R&R really build-up and wore very heavily on me; but I made it!
    Certainly, war is truly hell; but, I can look back on some of the bright spots, though few (comraderie, my interpreters, getting into town, too many I can’t write about . . . and leaving).
    Oh, many stories and not enough time to write them all.
    Two quick one’s:
    The Green Snake: On the Advisory Team, as the Pheonix advisor, had a cat called Rabit because it was caught in the door, hurt it’s back and kind of hopped around–would catch rats at night, eat the outside and leave the guts on the floor in front of my sleeping accomodations (lots of animals–our CO was CIA and had two Rhodesian Ridgeback dogs as his bodyguards; monkeys, ferret (call it a bananna cat?), baby tiger (I called it, “The Big Mit” as in baseball mit because when the baby tiger opened it’s paw, it was LARGE)). One night I heard some noise in our small tin living quarters and it was the guys standing around a two foot green snake that has a bright orange solid color on the bottom portion of the end of it’s tail–same snake as in the Kurt Russel movie, “Soldier.” The 1st Louie said it was poisonous as it had a triangle head–didn’t know that. We were asking each other repeatedly, “What is the (proper)name of the green snake” when I came-up with the brilliant idea of asking my interpreters–one Vietnameese and the other Montenyard, two, so that one would keep the other one honest in their interpretations–what the name of the snake was. They lived in Vietnam and WOULD KNOW. They both answered in the native tongue and I said to them, “in English, please”–to which they replied, “Green Snake.” So much for the obvious. Rabbit was bitten, went into the corner and stayed there for clo9se to a week to recuperate–and did recuperate.
    Short Timer: The infantry boys were planning a operation and the 2nd Lieutenant, from Ohio, who had a few days over the 30 day short-timer rule, refused to go. The CO and the infantry Captain were discussing court martialing him and I volunteered to take his place–he didn’t get court martialed.
    Lots of memories.
    97B40–Roger Diaz (E-5, Bronze Star)

    Comment by Roger Diaz — August 20, 2011 @ 3:29 pm

  529. I arrived at Ft Holabird in Sep 1962, after graduating from Colgate University and M Company, 3d Battalion, FT Dix. I’d gone from 2S to 1A in a heartbeat, so took an extra year to do something more interesting than groundpounding. I was a 973, as I recall, and always envied those DAME and DASE guys with the black bags. The Army asked me where I wanted to be assigned after graduation and I said the Presidio of SF. So they sent me to Germany. I left NYC in Dec. ’62 aboard the USS Buckner, and after a frigid N Atlantic crossing arrived in Bremerhaven, and Camp King, on 24 Dec ’62. I was ultimately assigned to the 513th INTC at Oberusal, with duty station at G2 Division, HQ USAREUR, Heidelberg. Three of the best years of my life.
    I had wanted to be an FBI agent, but Mr Hoover was only hiring lawyers and accountants at the time, so I didn’t make the cut. At EAS I hooked up with the Naval Investigative Service [now NCIS] as a Special Agent. I was first assigned to the San Fran area but transferred in 1968 to NISHQ with duty station, quess where? Fort Holabird. I spent two years there as NIS rep in the Records Center to all federal agencies doing criminal history inquiries. This was during the “Days of Rage” and deep under the building we were keeping track of the activities of the Weather Underground, the Panthers, SNC, etc. Lots of memories.

    Comment by Chad Howgate — September 2, 2011 @ 11:30 pm

  530. I regret to report the death of my good friend Tom Stephens. I first met Tom in at Region IV Munich. We shared many a great adventure both there and when we got home. He was a class or three ahead of me at the ‘bird. That would make it sometime in 1955. He was from Greenwhich, Conn and graduated from Williams.
    During the Hungarian Revolution he was sent home by plane, accompaning a group of Hungarians. He Attended German Language School at the Presidio and Hungarian down in O’gau.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — September 4, 2011 @ 2:22 pm

  531. ED, Sorry for your loss.

    Comment by bill — September 5, 2011 @ 12:12 am

  532. I was at Fort Holabird late 65 to 66. Image Interperter 96D20 Leaving there I was assigned to the 25th MID of the 25th Inf. Division in Hawaii. One month after arriving there, boarded a ship with a Regiment of the Division for Viet Nam. Spent one year there a few months at Ft. Bragg and my last year in Seoul and Osan Korea.

    Comment by Bruce Woods — September 23, 2011 @ 9:37 pm

  533. This is for Ed Delehanty who asked if anyone was in White Plains for trainig. I was one of the spooks being followed. It was in the fall of 1968. My class was 68 DE-9. I did meet your mother on the corner and gave the all clear sign and then the pass word and received the paper. As far as I recall, your mother did not seem old enought to have a son in the Army. Your brother was no doubt the CI agent who came to my hotel room with his friends and tore the room apart, put a bag over my head and put me in the trunk of a car. I was driven to a place that smelled of rubber tires and interrogated. Interesting experirence! You were made to think you were behind the Iron Curtain and it worked to a degree. My email is usaints68@gmail.com.
    I am looking for any other classmates who went to RVN with Special Forces.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — September 27, 2011 @ 2:29 pm

  534. Got room for a dinosaur? I was at Holabird between Dec. 1945 and June 1946! Having graduated from Military Intelligence Language School [Mandarin Chinese], I was sent the Counter Intelligence Corps School for “training.” It took about a week to be sent to Hqs Company where I became the Supply Sergeant for the Hqs and HQs Company. My primary function there was to outfit returning CIC field agents ready for discharge. They had been stationed in civies all over the world but the Army would not discharge them until they had full uniforms, etc.! It was great duty in a great place. One high spot was viewing the Sunday morning soccer games played by German POW’s held at Holabird. I also made many trips to Fort Meade and to the Pentagon from Holabird as a courier. I had to go back to Meade to be discharged. After my group had received our discharges, we were lined up again and marched to Finance to collect a few cents extra for the raise that went into effect that day!

    Comment by Isaac W. Feinberg — October 16, 2011 @ 5:07 pm

  535. Isaac (#534),

    Thank you for sharing this bit of history. More please.


    Comment by Manny — October 18, 2011 @ 10:09 am

  536. Isaac(#534)

    Give us some more of the dinosaur diaries from Holabird and/or other assignments. Thanks!

    Ed. H

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — October 18, 2011 @ 12:05 pm

  537. Refeence post 508 DAN
    It has been so long ago that I realy to not remember what office I was in. I remember working with a captured double agent as well as KNP< ROKCIA and others. I remembers some of the names you mention but cant put a face with any of them with maybe the exception of Fox. Is he the one that had his foreskin removed while he was there??? seems like he sat with his bsack to the outside wall of the quanset hut. Then there was the young kid, like we were realy old-23- who was not a agent but worked out constantly trying to get this hugh neck. Then there was the agent who had been there for ever spoke korean fluently and just keep extending. Remember the E6 who had gone to DAME or DASE and maid warrent while there. Two guys that were in my class that were assigned there with me were a Sexton and Thurston. Remember the CMMI inspection and when it was over NONE of the typewriters worked as we had taken all of them over to the motor pool and sprayed them down with some cleaning agent. Boy there were clean, but you could not type a word. Remember the two captins that use to come in to the bar ocassionally but come to find out they were actually CIA. Do you remember Jimmy Bogan the special forces type who had been in during WWII he was actually from C company and spoke one of the sand nations language.
    It was a good tour.


    Comment by Jeff Terrell — November 1, 2011 @ 7:13 pm

  538. comment 509 Bill Yantis

    I did not get to the 113 Kalamazoo RO until July 67.
    there were only three of us in our office and actually one of them worked out of his home in Grand Rapids. The other man in the Kalamazoo RO was a Bill Brunner a civilian. Usually any contact with another office in the 113 was by him. It was great duty there. You know the interesting thing now is when you are talking to other in the American Legion, we just got a post started here but I go to district and state meetings, there coment is YOU WERE IN THE ARMY. To which I say well sort of. It was great duty and will never be forgotten.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — November 1, 2011 @ 7:21 pm

  539. Post 508 Dan

    In all honisty I do not remember where or what division I was assigned. I know that I worked with the Korean National Police and CIA. Some of the names you mentioned ring but not real hard. Was fox the older man that had is fre skin removed while he was over there??? Seems like he sat with his back against the outside wall of the quanset hut. Remember the younger kid not an agent, hell we were old at 23, whose dream in life was to get a size 17 neck, all he did was work out. Then there was the agent who had been there so long that he spoke Korean fluently. Seems like he was an e-6 with a korean wife. REmember the e-6 who had come to Korea from either DAME or DASE school and then made warrant officer. Do you remember charles Bogan he was from C company fbut sspent a lot of time at our bar,he had been a pilot in WWII in the navy he was with special forces then but doing a leg tour in korea. Remember the two captins that stopped in ocassionally for a drink or two but come to find out there were actually CIA. Two guys from my clas at the bird that come over at about the same time i did were a Jerry Saxton and a North Thurston. I still have a special order extract granting our MOS of 97B40 to all of those that graduated on 22 Apr 66. Hell I got a copy of every order and pay stub from when I was in the army.
    Take care, those were some good days.


    Comment by Jeff Terrell — November 1, 2011 @ 7:37 pm

  540. Greetings!

    I am completing my Veterans Day morning thinking back over the last 40+ years and how, of all the things I have done (except being a dad), the one that still gives me the most pleasure to think about is my three years with USAINTC, and my time at the Bird. I guess it impressed itself on me so much becaue I had just turned 18 when I arrived and I spent some pretty formative years with some amazing people and seeing some incredible things. I hope that you all have similar experience to think back on. Many of my pals are gone, but like my late father said to me, no one is really gone if you can remember them. Today I hope to remember them all as best I can, then take my kids for a walk to the many city memorials where I live to talk to them about honor, sacrifice and friendship. Later, we will light a fire in the back yard and watch the full moon come up. They, though only 7 and 14, are very respectful of what veterans have done.

    God bless you all and be well.


    Comment by David Edmonds — November 11, 2011 @ 11:49 am

  541. I found this sight researching Fort Holabird because I have a lot of Army manuals from 1952-1976 from my dad’s career (Johnny Dolin) in the (Special Forces 52-69 and reg. army 70-76) and one of his late best SF buddies Ethyl Duffield who was SF for I think mid 50’s through mid 70’s and was on the team that found Che Guevara in Bolivia. Anyways I am wondering does anyone know if these manuals from places like Intel school @ Fort Holabird and manuals from Fort Detrick, Maryland marked “official use only” are unclassified and can be sold like on eBay? Most have to do with Russian weapons and language, school of americas, insurgencies and counter insurgencies and sf ops and a few are from cross-traing with the UDT team right before they became the first seal team (he was in the first team to take navy diver training and also in the first team in the 50’s to take free-fall training (I have the certificates)). I know these have historical signifigance but am not sure if I can legally sell them due to the information contained in the manuals. I would assume they are too old to still be classified but just want to make sure I’m not doing anything illegal. Any information would be appreciated and I’ll have my dad look at this site when he makes it out of the hospital and maybe share his stories. I have been recording them on a tape recorder because he is in pretty bad shape and most people I do not think have heard these stories. I know he was sent to the Hungarian Revolution to steal a Russian tank and was in Op Hotfoot and Whitestar in Laos and built the first camp at Dak To in I think 62-63 and was in Song Be from 68-69. He also was sent to numerous countries in Europe, Africa and Central and South America from the early 50’s to mid 60’s. I am always looking for more questions to ask him for the tape recordings so if anyone knew him and has a story or has a question it would be appreciated. He was in 10th, 77th, 7th, 1st, SF Trng.Grp, 8th and 5th groups respectively. If anyone is interested I made a tribute video to him and his buddies on youtube titled: “Special Forces “Green Berets” Tribute 1952-1969″. I would also like to hear from anyone that knew Ethyl Duffield also as he was my godfather and I spent a lot of time with him in my teenage years before he died in the late 80’s. Thanks for your service and welcome home to all the veterans here.

    Comment by Joseph Dolin — November 17, 2011 @ 2:12 pm

  542. I just discovered this site. Thank you for all of the information and personal experiences that respondents have posted and shared. I hope that the site is still active. My father, James F. Lyle, who is now deceased, was assigned to Fort Holabird in the years of 1956-57. He had attended the Army Language School in Monterey CA, studying German, prior to his assignment. Because he was married with a family, when we joined him, we were housed off-post,(in Day Village?). He was later shipped to Weierhof Kaserne, Kirschheim-Bolanden, Germany. We, his family, later followed him to Europe. I was quite young at the time, but I am curious about his experience at Ft. Holabird, especially as and African-American in that time. I’d be grateful to receive any information about my dad. Thank you veterans!

    Comment by Dianne Lyle — November 20, 2011 @ 4:59 pm

  543. Like others, I stumbled across this great site! I arrived at Foret Holabird during the snow storm of Feb 1966 and graduated June 1966 as a 97B Agent. After reading all the other stories about how tough interviewing Peter Poor (Joseph Bandiera) could be, I wanted to share with all the other Agent grads out there the following obit I found on the web:

    “Joseph Bandiera, 82, formerly of Baltimore, MD, passed away June 8, 2006 in Scottsdale, AZ. He had a wonderful, loving relationship with the late Pearl McGraw, with whom he enjoyed ballroom dancing. He also enjoyed acting in Arizona & Baltimore. He was blessed with many loyal & loving friends. In WWII he received a purple heart in the battle of Iwo Jima. He is survived by three nieces and one nephew, 8 great-nieces/nephews and 10 great-great-nieces/nephews. A Catholic Mass of Resurrection will be celebrated on Friday, July 7, 2006 at 10:00 AM at St. Daniel the Prophet Church, 1030 N. Hayden Rd, Scottsdale AZ. Interment with military honors will be at Gardens of Faith Memorial Cemetery in the Sermon on the Mount section, 5598 Trumps Mill Rd, Baltimore, MD on Thursday, July 20, 2006 at 11:00 AM. Life-Paths Funeral Home, Scottsdale, handled the arrangements.”

    Rest in Peace Peter Poor. Your are remembered!

    — Bob Perry

    Comment by Robert Perry — November 21, 2011 @ 6:11 pm

  544. Dianne,

    I was at Holabird in1956-57 but do not recall a James Lyle their but do remember an intern school psychologist with the Cleveland (Ohio) Pubdlic Schools in the early ’60’s. Could it be?

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — November 24, 2011 @ 2:11 pm

  545. Looking for information about surveillance conducted for 9 months at Walter Reed Hospital by 116th INTC Group during 1968

    Comment by A B Campbell — November 26, 2011 @ 11:39 am

  546. attempting to get comment accepted on site

    Comment by Andrews Campbell — November 26, 2011 @ 11:50 am

  547. Got in. Requesting information concerning 9 month surveillance conducted at Walter Reed in 1967-1968

    Comment by Andrews Campbell — November 26, 2011 @ 11:51 am

  548. My name is Tommy Nettles. Went to Holabird in 67 &68 (97B). I was a poor student and even a poorer agent, but I was one. My father, Wyatt A. Nettles went to the agent course in 46 or 47 (Ma Klecka (sic)) remembered both of us. He was assigned to Frankfurt in 48 & 49 with the CIC. Then to Richmond, VA and Charlottesville, VA Resident Office (RO). Then off to Regensburg, Ger. (where I started school). Dad was assigned to the Evansville, IN RO in 55 and retired in 59. We moved to a farm in Manchester, TN. Wyatt was recalled in 65 and was assigned to Lexington, KY. He then was sent to Vietnam, Phanthet (sic) and got a bronze star. His last station was at Ft. Bragg. While I was in the hospital, Ft Knox, recovering from a wound I got in Vietnam, dad recruited me for the agent course. I had to wait several months, in the 54th Inf, Knox, til I turned 21. I got there in Nov 67, went to work at the Holabird Inn soon after. If I hadn’t spent so much time at the bar I would have been a better student and agent. The names Klecka, Bandiera, Holibird Inn, Harveys, etc. brings back many memories and a few tears. After school I was assigned to the Ft. Knox Field Office where I failed miserabilly. My dad never let me live it down. I was assigned as an Intelligence Analyst (96B) and sent back to Vietnam, MACV Tm 21, Pleiku. I got out of the army for seven months. Came back in Apr 71. Scewered the Drill Sergeants course and was sent back to Vietnam in Feb 72 where I was assigned as the Intelligence Coordinator (97D) for the Siagon field offfice, 525 MI Group, McCarrick Compound (good duty) I even made E6 there. Subsequently I was assigned to Redstone Arsenal, Ft Huachuca, as the Bn Operations Sgt, Student Bn, USAICS, Nuremburg, Stuttgart, back to Operations Sgt at Huachuca, 2d Bdg, 3d Armored, 5th Army, Ft Sam, Camp Humpheies, ROK, and 197th Inf Bde where I retired as a Master Sergrant in 87. I remember Holabird fondly it was a part of my life since I was born. Thanks for the
    memories. Tommy Nettles

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — November 28, 2011 @ 3:12 pm

  549. Would like to hear from any of my fellow agents who served with the 66th CIC Group’s Region 33 detachment
    at Offenbach a/M from summer l951 to Sept. 1953.

    Comment by Frank Ramirez — November 29, 2011 @ 7:41 pm

  550. Would like to hear from any of my fellow agents who
    served with the 66th CIC’s Region III at Offenbach Am
    Main (Germany) from Summer l951 to Sept. 1053.
    Thanks much.

    Comment by Frank Ramirez — November 29, 2011 @ 7:45 pm

  551. Tom Nettles, did you work the bar at the Holabird Inn? I spent almost every night there for 3 years, 1965-1968 but sorry to say, I don’t remember you. Do you remember Rick Nesbitt? He worked the bar most of those years. I worked a few times checking ID’s at the door. I remember Lynn and a German waitress (Dedee?) Bob Foster was another bartender.
    The organ player had more investigations than any American because he would try to be friendly and ask everyone where they were from. All the students thought he was a spy looking for information and they would file reports.

    Comment by bill — December 1, 2011 @ 12:45 am

  552. Frank all I know is dad (Wyatt Nettles) was stationed at Regensburg 1952-1954. I was 6-8 yrs old. The names Yost and Bill Hicks sticks in my mind.

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 1, 2011 @ 8:52 pm

  553. Bill I am sure we drank beer (.25 each) together. I think there was a woman and two daughters who ran the bar, all attractive. I did everything, watched the door, bussed tables, washed dishes, tended bar and anything else they wanted. My main job was to open the bar at 6AM on Sat & Sun to tend the night shift of the various factories when they got off at 6AM. Rock and Rye was my best seller (.90) A Rolling Rock poney and a shot of rye. By 11AM the bar was empty til 1PM…Tom

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 1, 2011 @ 9:05 pm

  554. I have to know.. Was it a particular brand/type of rye or just the patrons favorite?

    Comment by Joseph — December 3, 2011 @ 11:22 am

  555. Tom Nettles, that explains it, I was never up before 1PM on Saturday or Sunday.

    Yes, the mother ran the place and two daughter worked as waitresses. The father cooked but never dealt with the customers. I drank bottled Bud until around the 3rd week of the month and then had to drink draft. When the money ran out completely, I went to the NCO Club and used the “chit” book. 3 years, great memories.

    Comment by bill — December 3, 2011 @ 11:53 pm

  556. Joseph After 43 years who knows what brand of Rye was the house brand. My memory is not that good.

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 5, 2011 @ 3:39 pm

  557. Bill the chits at the NCO Club got me through many of end of months too. Any one remember SFC Frank Miller who was a friend in my class Nov 67-Mar68 (97B). We also served together at McCarrick Compound (Saigon) in 72.

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 5, 2011 @ 3:43 pm

  558. I arrived at Holabird in July 68 for 69-B-3, Agent course. We had a really rank-heavy class with a Marine Gunny for class leader, a few other Marines and enough hard-stripe sergeants for four squad leaders. I’d arrived from Fort Hood as one of those sergeants and had the pleasure of marching the class to building 320 on many a day. Other than meeting the love of my life, getting married and getting promoted to staff sergeant, it was a pretty uneventful class, graduating 1 Nov 68. I wound up being assigned to the school as an instructor/demonstrator with the FTX committee. Had a great year teaching and harassing aspiring CI agents and the occasional agent handler. As a faculty member, I had a crack at the tech course slots that went unfilled so in December 69 I attended the DAME class. In the middle of that, I came down on orders for Berlin that required I attend the PHOTO class first. Sixteen sweet weeks of lock-picking and photo-taking before taking the wife and new baby to the capital of the cold war. But first, a stop at the 902nd in Baily’s Crossroads, Virginia. That’s a story of another day.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — December 5, 2011 @ 5:37 pm

  559. I got so distracted I forgot to name some names from the ‘bird. I never saw anyone else from my class except Robert White walked through the Finance Office in Berlin one day. Operational circumstances prevented me from talking to him. From FTX, our fearless leader LTC Spady Koyama, MSG (later SGM) Carter, “Gru” Gruhala who was married to one of the medics at the post clinic. Jack Lewis went from FTX to the PHOTO section as an instructor and then on to a career with Secret Service and the IG community. I still have his email address around here somewhere. Doug Burgener joined FTX from the 710th MID in Honolulu just before I left. Bob MacDonald, Ernie Fordham, Paul Warnken, Dan Deuel, Roy Kurnos; several guys shared an apartment on St. Paul St. downtown which was the scene of many a party. Our civilians, Dennis Cook and Al Strapelli. Dennis went on to fight organized crime in Las Vegas and died much too early. I found that out from Ernie Buck, (#289 above), when he and I compared careers at the State Department. OK, my head hurts now.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — December 6, 2011 @ 12:28 am

  560. Looking for anyone who served with the 109th MI Group, Cincinnati, Ohio from June 1966 to October 1967; 52nd MID with the 11th Light Infantry Brigade from Hawaii (Schofield Barracks) to Duc Pho, VN circa October 1967 to March 1968; or with the 204th MID at Provisional Corps Vietnam at Phu Bai, VN from March to September 1968. I was a 97B Agent in those MI units during those times. Looking for any fellow Agents or other MOS who served in those units at those times. My email is trinity70@verizon.net.

    Comment by Robert Perry — December 10, 2011 @ 8:27 pm

  561. Attended Holibird from March 1951 thru May 1961. Was married and lived in Wherry housing on base. I was in analyst 974.2 mos and was sent to the 112th in San Antonio. in 14 months made E-5. Ialmost stayed in theArmy. Anyone from my class?

    Comment by Jack Schabow — December 12, 2011 @ 11:42 am

  562. Regarding post #558. Not familiar with 69-B-3 Agent MOS. Anymore info? Thanks in advance.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — December 12, 2011 @ 8:17 pm

  563. 69-B-3 was a class number leading to the 97B MOS.

    Comment by bill — December 13, 2011 @ 12:05 am

  564. Gents: I would love to hear from any of my fellow AIS agents who sweved in Korea from 1965 thru 1966 either at Inchon, or Seoul. I would like to hear from some of my classmates either at the Bird, from November/December 1963 to April 1964. also if any went to the Language School in Monterey from May 1964 to May 1965. please feel free to respond to jhbone@vaughnlawfirm.net. look forward to hearing from some of you. j. bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — December 15, 2011 @ 4:22 pm

  565. I attended the “College on the Colgate” at Ft Holabird from Feb. 1969 to June 1969.

    Graduated as a Corporal, a 97B40, went on 2 week leave before reporting to ship out to Munich German in June 1969.

    During that time, the Army did away with the rank of Corporal, magically turning them all into SPEC 4s.

    All, that is, but for we on leave and a few other strays out there.

    No one wanted corporals as of July 1969. We did not exist. They could not even requisition us. Insane.

    Spent 4 extra days at Ft Dix before shipping out. They could not resolve the issue, so passed on us to Germany. “Let them deal with it.” In Germany, they did not know what to do with us, so we hung around and eventually blended ourselves into slots where we did not belong.

    Ended up at the 66th MI Group in Munich, and stayed there until August 1971. We Corporals were excess baggage who could not be re-assigned due to our non-existent rank.

    That kept me out of Vietnam, thank God.

    I thank the American taxpayers for my 25 months European vacation, during which I had a hell of a good time.

    Tom Dulaney dulaney505@comcast.net

    Comment by Tom Dulaney — December 16, 2011 @ 11:20 pm

  566. tom dulaney (#565),

    The sp-4 rank came in in 1955. This was a non-com rank in order for us to pull all the details we pulled as pfc’s (kp, guard, duty, etc.). This was our “punishment” for special skills and perhaps higher iq’s (though I have my doubts about the latter). And then they wondered why we didn’t re-up Army genius at its best.


    Comment by manny adler — December 17, 2011 @ 4:48 pm

  567. Thanks for the memories. I was at the Byrd 68-69 then on to the 108th mi Group, Bronxsville Field Office. Great to hear from my comrads,

    Jim Kridel SA CIC

    Comment by Jim Kridel — December 18, 2011 @ 9:55 pm

  568. Happy holidays to all old Holibird grads. Went through the Bird in 68-69,then on to the Frankfurt-Farben. Here’s to retirement,and good old fashioned humit. LIDMAC.

    Comment by RF — December 19, 2011 @ 9:51 am

  569. Anyone remember a Duane L. Doyle (1965-1968)?



    Comment by manny adler — December 22, 2011 @ 5:32 pm

  570. Does anyone recall Lt. Col. George Pattis? He served as CO of the 113th based in Chicago. He was CO when I was there in ’65 and ’66. Think he might have had some duty in Greece. Thanks.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — December 24, 2011 @ 12:57 pm

  571. Christmas Eve is the best when you have kids, I’m 62 with a seven year old (who is still in to Santa) and a fourteen year old (who is in to telling me that I am old). Fourty-four years ago I spent my first Christmas in the Army. Amazing how fast time goes. My grandfather, who lived to 103 years old told me: “If you are lucky you get old.” When I asked what that meant, he looked at me like I had three heads and said, “Luck is the great determinator.” Now, I think back to that and realize all the guys who went before me, a lot of it was dumb bad luck. A zig instead of a zag is the difference between being here or not. I am most grateful to the comments on this site. It brings me back to how lucky I was to have gotten into MI. We do not like to say it, but we kept Americas strong. My fourteen year old son recently asked me what really matters in life? What we did mattered. My best friend went into the Peace Corp when I went into the Army; that mattered too. We should remember all our friends who are gone; what they did mattered too.

    God bless you all. Merry Christmas and, God bless America


    Comment by David Edmonds — December 24, 2011 @ 9:19 pm

  572. I visited the Two O’clock Club on the block where Blaze Starr was the main attraction- I left my wallet and ID in the barracks at Fort Holabird, a just in case thing you know, but Blaze didn’t come on till midnight and we had to be back in quarters before that. Her club was right beside the club Ronnie and Her Twin Liberty Bells. God bless that woman for her patriotism.

    Comment by John Washington — December 29, 2011 @ 5:11 pm

  573. Guess I probably did a no no but we and notice I did not mention any names lol but we took an AMEXCO (American Express Company) trip to Berlin and of course we all wanted to cross the wall which we did and spent an afternoon in East Berlin. Very clean streets -Unter Den Linden. We stopped at some park where we got out of the bus and I went up to a E. German soldier and asked if I could photograph him. He said “no” lol which was fine by me. He had two bars on his shoulder so I asked if he as a Hauptman and again he said “no” but I got a little anxious when he asked what did I do. So I told him I was a high school science teacher in Karlsruhe. When we first crossed the border and was in the East, the guards delcaired my passport invalid which it indeed was. I never even noticed. They said I had to pay a 15 mark fee for a 24 hour visa. I looked back at Checkpoint Charlie and saw the American flag there and silly me the thought ran through my mind wondering if I could make a run for it..Funny how your mind works when you are scared carpless.

    Comment by John Washington — December 29, 2011 @ 5:22 pm

  574. My passport had expired.

    Comment by John Washington — December 29, 2011 @ 5:28 pm

  575. I very well remember being told to break step going across the bridge at Colgate Creek.

    Comment by John Washington — December 29, 2011 @ 5:35 pm

  576. RE #452, #s 154, 206 and 475: I FINALLY made it to Fort Huachuca today and chatted with Paul Pippick at the Army Intelligence Museum there. Left him some of my brother Ed’s and my 1954-1961 Holabird and Region XII 66th CIC Group papers and papers from Fort Riley 1953 ROTC Summer Camp. Who knows what may come of that? At 80, it was time to get a Round Tuit. Happy 2012 to One and All.

    Comment by Frederick N. Evans — December 31, 2011 @ 7:33 pm

  577. Happy New Year!!
    For those interested, go to Facebook look up
    Seoul, Korea, Company B, 502nd MI Battalion

    Looking for old friends.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — January 3, 2012 @ 3:01 pm

  578. Anybody out there who remembers being in the HQ office in Bad Constadt 1957-58? I remember a great EM Club where we spent a good deal of time. I remember a few names such as Mike Fox, Pat Clancy, Msgt Ellis and a guy named Napeirski (I think) We all went to London and Paris just before I came home. (On the good ship Randall, Christmas Eve) It was Stettin Kaserne and the Flag Pole. I was transferred up from the Munich Field Office becaus they were overstrenght. (They Said)

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — January 4, 2012 @ 12:53 pm

  579. I was the first woman assigned to the 108th MI Hqs in Ft Devens MA, 1970-71, 97D on the job training. I worked with 2 warrant officers (Mr Boyda and another whose name I can’t remember, who could open absolutely any lock. The ASA guys used to come over in pairs, one would show him a lock and the man would take out his tools. The ASA guy would look at his watch and less than a minute later, the lock was open, Then the guy would turn to his friend and say- “pay up”. Anybody remember his name?
    That Christmas Mr Boyda and I sent a teletype Christmas greeting to all of the field offices with Santa on his sleigh and all 8 reindeer. LTC Harrington wasn’t amused by this misuse of government material and time, at least not officially.
    Later, I was sent to Ft Huachuca for the first 97D training after the move from Holabird.

    Comment by Donna Stevens — January 5, 2012 @ 8:36 am

  580. The 108th MI Gp Hqs was deactivated at the end of Jan 1972. It was quite a crazy place to work. I remember that LTC Harrington adopted the Frog as our unit mascot. We had frogs on our mugs, a frog poster, a frog on our door- and whenever someone came in from a higher unit, LTC Harrington instructed us to put our hands on our desks and say “Ribb-it!” like a frog. But we were lso sorn to secrecy not to tell why the frog was our mascot- The Frog’s true motto was “I’m so happy here I could croak!”

    Comment by Donna Stevens — January 6, 2012 @ 9:17 am

  581. My father just passed on December 20th. He was and instructor at Holibard from 1962 to 1966. He started there as an Air Force Sergeant and took a Chief Warrant Officer appointment with the Army and went to Vietnam. His name was Irvin Peterson but went by Bud or Pete. I have fond memories of Holibard, the jeep hill and the swimming pool. If anyone remembers my dad, email me brianandlisap@verizon.net.


    Comment by Brian Peterson — January 7, 2012 @ 11:19 pm



    Comment by ben burt — January 8, 2012 @ 11:03 pm

  583. Johnny Dolin, ref#541
    You asked for agents who may have known your father, Joseph Dolin.
    The capture of Che Guevera involved few americans. The MI Agent in charge at the capture location was warrant officer Perry “Pete” Shuford, a highly decorated and brilliant agent. Pete was fluent in both Cantonese and Mandarin Chinese, Japanese, Spanish and Portugese. He was special forces and worked through the University of the America’s in Panama. He was also an accomplished artist and retired from both the US Army and DIA in 1971 to Corpus Christi, TX. Another MI agent in this effort was Harry Levy. I had worked with both some years after the Guevera capture. Another who may have known your father was Felix Rodriguez, a special forces soldier, who later co-authored “Shadow Warrior,” and now lives in the Miami, FL area. Both Shuford and Levy were Holabird students, both worked as CI agents during the term in which your father served. Good Luck,
    Gordon Cooper, 97B40, Holabird 1968

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — January 9, 2012 @ 9:17 pm

  584. Manny Adler, ref#127
    The Holabird was 180 degrees from the current school in many ways.
    At the Bird there was a day in which they took us enmass to a clothier in Baltimore and I don’t recall wearing a uniform from then on, and at the current school I only saw uniformed students. I have no knowledge of the working agent in the field now. In the vietnam period we wore a uniform with only a US marking or non military attire. But I don’t believe the agent in 97B40 today gets the training to work in CONUS assignments. They seemed to only be knowledgeable in overseas combat environments, which is there task. My main concern in the modern military is limited spectrum of eligible members. It seemed to me not to have many “Ivy Leaguers” within the ranks. You don’t see many weekend trips by the students to the New Jersey beaches as when I was at the Bird. Any by the way Manny, when and where do us old agents meet every two months in Orange County, CA ? God Bless, Gordon Cooper, 97B40, Holabird 1968

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — January 9, 2012 @ 9:37 pm

  585. Bill Randall, ref #444
    Did you ever meet Perry “Pete” Shuford. Pete retired in 1971 from both the US Army and DIA. I was surprised at your view that there were few blacks in MI. I met some that were in the Area Studies Program at the Bird. One was from Rutgers University. I worked with a Capt. Phillips between his two tours in Nam and with Shuford between his two tours in Nam. Pete used to have a saying, “I didn’t know I was black.” I was mentored by Pete. He was the best field agent I ever knew. Of course God puts us in so many lucky places and times that we may not see everything and everyone, but I felt I have been very lucky. Ft. Gullick in Panama or Alice Springs, Australia to name a couple. Did you ever get to sit in the “Spirit of St. Louis” plane? What a trip! Did you ever get to shake a hand of the President of the United States of America or that of a five star General. I’ve been one lucky citizen. But Pete Schuford was the best. Black or other. Good Luck, Gordon Cooper, 97B40 Holabird 1968

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — January 9, 2012 @ 9:54 pm

  586. I want to add on a bit to my previous letter. Like most of you I do remember the actors in the fish-bowl. Very entertaining. alsso the law instructor.Very boring!! Warm mornings and a monotone voice! Someone mentioned about failed students. Well,my class 64B2A had two-thirds fail! Heard later that it was referred to as “The Infamous 64B2A Class”!! One thing that happened at the Bird that I never understood. A buddy from Oklahoma,Jim Anderson & I put on almost new blue jeans to wear to the post theater. Well,we were denied entrance due to the jeans which are very acceptable here in Texas. Yet they let hairy-legged guys in checkered shorts into the show. Must have been some Yankee C.O.’s prejudice. Go figure. I did ride my Yamaha up & down the jeep test ramp a few times. Jim & I also rode over to Marlboro, Md. to watch the Tobacco Trail M/C road race one weekend. Stayed over night at Andrews A.F.Base. Andy was AF prior service & knew the ropes there. Ate A great supper & breakfast.
    Also while at Holabird, a buddy from Polk, Robert Durbin from Anniston,Alabama, had relatives out near Towson.He & I rode the bike to there & hunted birds of any sort while there. Later when I took the bike home. This was in late Nov.63, rode down east coast to Georgia then headed west. Stayed overnight at Durbins home, ate supper with his folks & slept in his bed!
    the 526th on Okinawa: a small-staffed org. near Naha Air Base. We wore civvies on & off job. EXCEPT when the training officer,a W.O. felt that we lower peons needed to be reminded that we were still in the Army & we had to put on fatigues & do misc. jobs around the building,like paint or scrub outside walls,etc. One day you might be talking to a Special Forces Colonel about some soldier & next day painting a walk railing! GO FIGURE! We also had a pretty good fast-pitch softball team & played against other Army units such as the 999 Signal Corps,the Transportation Co., & aboutfive other teams. Our C.O., Col.Finnegan was very supportive & brought his family(many kids) to every game. Once when I was playing 1st Base I was having trouble seeing balls thrown from third due to the sun setting right above there. Finnegan said”Hey, our man on 1st cant see the ball! Someone give him my sunglasses!” So I finished the game(or until the sun went down) wearing the bosses glasses! Walking along the shops(Black Market Alley) built above the Big Benjo Ditch was always fun. Okinawa was the only place I generally carried an small umbrella because a rain storm could come over at any time. Strangest thing about the locals was they wore light colored clothes in daytime then put on darker ones at night. Then some would be walking along streets or esp. Hwy #1 close to the driving lane. You didn’t see a person until you were right beside him! Good thing max speed limit was 30mph! All in all, Oki was a good tour & certainly beat the other duty tour spot a little farther South! BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — January 10, 2012 @ 2:54 am

  587. re post 581 i worked with your dad. i am post # 245 on this page and 284 and 285 i mentioned your dad on 284 i think he was an e6 when i arrived 1964 and promoted to cwo shortly thereafter. in his classes he wore civvies a lot and went by mr peterson even as nco so the transition to mr peterson as cwo was an easy transition. i was asst instructor and classified document custodion 64-67 when i ets out. we were in department of area studies. your dad was a gentleman. we worked together occasionally on training and since i brought donuts and made coffee every morning and keep them outside the classified document vault where i hung out most of the time i wasnt on training. everybody paid a dime a cup and that gave enough money for coffee and fixings i purchased at the px plus donuts every morning for the entire dept. he used to come in and say he was going to cut off a piece of coffee because i made it strong. sorry to here of your loss i saw on your post # 581. frank stella

    Comment by frank stella — January 10, 2012 @ 6:13 pm

  588. Jim: I just re-read some of the comments & really enjoyed doing so. If any one that might remember me I would like for you to publish my e-mail address: ben.pat@sbcglobal.net. Thanks alot for the web-site. May it go on forever. I’m 72 and have been using computers for only acouple of years; still learning! BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — January 10, 2012 @ 11:04 pm

  589. RE Post #275: My father, William (Bill) Luehrs, went through training at Ft. Holabird in 1967. My dad passed away last year. Mr. Mahinske, I would be interested in any documents that you have regarding my Dad’s time at Holabird. If anyone served with my Dad, I would definitely be interested in hearing your memories of my Dad. Thanks. Jason

    Comment by Jason Luehrs — January 15, 2012 @ 11:08 pm

  590. Ref: 579 & 580


    I ETS from the 108th MI Gp in August, 1970 (I got an education early out). I must have just missed you. I left behind a lot of friends. Do you remember Bob Runes, Mike Baron, Bob Finchell? An unorthodox group if ever there was one. Mr roommate an I left service the same day. His name was Bobby Hickson. A really great guy, but as different from me as night and day. We had all been moved out of Holabird to Stateside sites because there was a great need. We never got to go back to school, getting our MOS with holy water and a blessing. I remember the guy who could open the locks; but not his name. I believe he was an agent who used to do all of the security checks on the secure contractor sites in the NE of US. He had some great stories. They used an old Ma Bell telephone truck. It really looked like the panel vans that you saw on your hometown street. They used to sleep in it when they were conducting long term surveylance. Looked mighy uncomfortable. You are right: he could open anything, even things that weren’t supposed to be openable. He really enjoyed the challenge.

    Have a healthy New Year,

    Dave Edmonds

    Comment by David Edmonds — January 16, 2012 @ 11:00 pm

  591. I grew up in Baltimore MD and in 1953-1955 I was employed as a civilian secretary for CIC School, R&D dept, where we typed textbooks, etc., for the school to use for students’ training, and 1955-57 continued employment as civilian secretary in Munich Germany at the 7915 USAR Field Office, also known as 66th CIC Group USAR. I met wonderful CIC civilians and military, still in contact with many.

    Comment by rita schaub — January 17, 2012 @ 10:13 am

  592. Jason Luehrs Post #589: I found three documents relating to your Father’s training at Fort Holabird. I have duplicates of two and can copy the 3rd for you. I would like to mail these to you. Your Father was assigned to the 902nd in Washington, D.C. after training. He was in my 97B40 Class. I remember the last name, but that is about all. Send your mailing address to me at ffmron@bellsouth.net I will get them in the mail ASAP. I am sorry to hear of your Dad’s passing.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — January 18, 2012 @ 2:17 pm

  593. I haven’t looked at every comment, but am curious to know if any of you were at the bird in early 1961. Most of our group were from Leonard Wood or other 5th army areas.

    Comment by Bob Quaglia — February 4, 2012 @ 11:01 am

  594. I went through Holabird from July to October 1961 for the 97B course (CI Special Agent). Posted to 66th Mi Group HQ in Stuttgart after that. Went back from September 1967 to December 1969 as an instructor in the CI Dept — taught CI investigative techniques. Followed that with the MIOAC course before deploying to Vietnam. Anyone there at those times.

    Comment by Howell Sasser — February 5, 2012 @ 4:54 pm

  595. I was at the Bird 1951-1952. Assigned to 115th CIC headquarters, Presidio of San Francisco. Great stories from all you guys.

    Comment by david w obrien — February 6, 2012 @ 1:26 am

  596. Howell, I was gone to Chicago by then Stationed at the 113th at 5th Army HQ. We did a LOGEX at Fort Lee, before i left fot the 113th but gone well befor July.

    Comment by Bob Quaglia — February 6, 2012 @ 12:06 pm

  597. Howell, I was there at that time. I graduated the 97B course in November 68 and was assigned to the FTX committee until May 1970. Our building was in the far SW corner of the post across from the bowling alley. We tried very hard to stay out of building 320. Our boss, LTC Koyama allowed us a “relaxed” dress code; today it would be known as business casual. If we had a class in the building, we were constantly changing clothes to fit our scripted roles. We had an enormous wardrobe to select from. During the tactical phase we put on makeup as well to appear Vietnamese. Going to 320 meant wearing a jacket and tie. We tried to keep that to the Friday foot surveillance exercise downtown.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — February 7, 2012 @ 12:18 am

  598. Are any of my fellow agents still around. In 1952 we lived at the old States Hotel at Kearny and California Streets in San Francisco, while working out of the 115th CIC detachment at the Presidio, under the command of Col deReimer. Then later, some of us agents moved into a boarding house on Taylor Street. Then in 1953 five of us agents rented a house out on Irving Street at 19th Avenue. My fellow agent was Edward Wyatt who was honorably discharged in 1954 and returned, i believe, to North Carolina. I recall that General Gallagher was, at that time, the Commanding General at Fort Holabird. The Senator McCarthy scare was causing a lot of grief for the CIC leadership.

    Comment by david w obrien — February 7, 2012 @ 12:49 am

  599. Got to the “bird” in August 67. From there to B company, 502nd outside of Seoul. In ’69 came back to Holabird to finish. Hung out with a couple of Lieuts from Michigan–they lived on a barge in Baltimore harbor, before it was renovated. Had a great time. Mack Grammer was my room mate. We lived at the El Rino apartments right across from the main gate. It was a dump, but at least we were off base. And everyone is correct: not many people know of Holabird. Great memories, great friends. Stay well…..John

    Comment by John Climie — February 8, 2012 @ 7:04 am

  600. Ref:Comment #23..Does anyone know if the USAINTS-Intel Command logo, embedded in granite exists as part of one of the Holabird Business-Industrial Park Buildings,as a tribute,as mentioned in comment #23. Trying to find which building and if it still exsists.
    If you have Fort Holabird photos please post on the Facebook page for Fort Holabird Alumni.

    Comment by RF — February 9, 2012 @ 8:37 am

  601. Does anyone remember Sgt. Major Joseph Lorusso.late 1960’s to 1970. Not sure what he did.He wasn’t a young soldier then. Iam guessing he was some kind of teacher??probably around the age of 40.

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — February 12, 2012 @ 9:53 pm

  602. Re=post #601… My father was USAINTC command Sergeant Major Joseph T.Lorusso..anyone remember him??

    Comment by Angie Lorusso — February 12, 2012 @ 10:29 pm

  603. John C. Well, the ElRino apartments sure bring back memories. I lived there from 69-70 after returning from the 525 MI Group in Saigon. Shared an apartment on the second floor with a guy from LA. Typical Friday night after work included stopping at Snyder’s Liquor store for a bottle of wine and then heading over to the Holabird Inn for a couple drinks and then up the street to Squires to order a pizza to go–and of course a couple more drinks. I didn’t find the apartments too bad, but the owners who lived acrosse the street were real nosy and basically had no respect for the military. Anybody remember the Keystone just up Holabird Avenue? They had a music club in the back with a lot of the local ladies hanging out.

    Comment by David Morin — February 13, 2012 @ 9:28 pm

  604. Post #209: My little sister posted that entry and made several mistakes. Our father SGM Joseph T. Lorusso was assigned to HaHa in 1968 after returning from Vietnam (2/16th Inf). He retired in August 1970. While assigned there we became friends with SGM James McCann and family and I remember some other names; LTC or COL Hall- had a daughter named Judy; Fields family had a son who was a bagger at the commisary, the Vindovich family. Our father passed away in 1987 and he really never talked about his 22 years in the Army, not even with me after I joined the Army in 1982. I didn’t stay 22 years, had enough after 21 years and finished as a CW3. I have enjoyed all the stories of HaHa and I still stop to eat at Squires when passing by Baltimore.

    Comment by John Lorusso — February 14, 2012 @ 6:51 pm

  605. David Morin (#603),

    Re: the Keystone. Was there back in mid 50’s and had strippers in the basement as I recall, kind of East Baltimore near the base. Went there once or twice. Permanent party rearely hung out there. Usualyy took off on weekends beyaond the 50 mile limit allowed on our class A passes (bad boys and girls).


    Comment by manny adler — February 16, 2012 @ 4:22 pm

  606. Just re-read #605. Egads the typos.


    Comment by manny adler — February 16, 2012 @ 4:24 pm


    Comment by ben burt — February 16, 2012 @ 11:19 pm

  608. I arrived at the “Bird” in Nov ’65 after Ft Dix basic, and after graduating from the 97B course was assigned to Orlando, Fla field office where we did security clearances for space industry/Cape Canaveral. Some Ft Holabird memories: There was an old ammo dump on or near the fort property that was setup to replicate a VC village complete with underground tunnels. My day included being captured and later taking part in interrogations. The “fish bowl” where local civilian actors were “interviewed” or interrogated. Trying to avoid being “recruited” for weekend kp duty by permanent party staff -falling asleep on Saturday morning in the day room was the quickest way to “volunteering” for kp projects! It was best to leave the fort on weekends for downtown Baltimore or a bus trip to DC.

    Comment by john tarantino — February 17, 2012 @ 11:06 am

  609. Is there anyone else that can give me any additional information about the B & C retirement program that Ben Burt spoke of in comment # 582? I served as a special agent with the 113th MI group, Region 5, Wausau R.O. from 1969 to 1971. I am 67 now and would really like to get the framed B&C’s that Ben mentioned. Am building a display pertaining to my military days and feel that this would make a great addition to layout.


    Comment by Robert B St.Amour — February 18, 2012 @ 8:21 pm



    Comment by ben burt — February 19, 2012 @ 12:43 am


    Comment by ben burt — February 19, 2012 @ 12:50 am

  612. I was sent to Ft Pol, La, since Ft Ord had been closed, due to Meningitis scare in 1965. After Basic, I went to Holabird. 1SGT Snyder was the 1SGT and I was in the 97B course. 1LT Hayward was the Co Cdr of students then. Well, I thought th best thing about the Bird was the Holabird Inn, across the stret from the Main Gate, where we ate lunch as often as possible. Great burgers and chips and a beer. YUM! Hated KP duty. 1LT Hayward took me to town and showed me the sights, for some reason. The CQ thought he was a gay LT but I thought otherwise. Straight arrow! Anyway, I went to Frankfurt from there to the 165th MI Co. Later to Giessen as 97B30.
    Then, on to Nam! I always will remember Holabird though as the place where we had dress parades each Friday with Carling Brewery driving in a 18 wheeler flat bed with free beer at the end of the parade. HATED the beer.
    Tasted cruddy. Anyway, we had lots of great time there and we joked about how many salutes it took to get from one place on post to another. Had no car, as I was from CA but Dundalk was a “real trip” Went to Baltimore a few
    times and that was also another real trip. Yikes! The
    instructors in the 97B course were characters. We had to get thru interview type classes and they would try to make it difficult for us. The main bldg at Holabird was like a fortress or a prison, do not know which. Open
    Bay billets. Lockers all in a row in the center of aisle.
    1SGT Snyder would ALWAYS have GI Parties on the weekend.
    YUK! Tried to get out of them but to no avail. Hated those Khaki uniforms all starched. As soon as you put on the pants and walked to the Mess hall, they would look like you had slept in them. IMPOSSIBLE! Marble steps of “Balmur” was the ONLY place in the USA that got
    me so turned around mentally, I thought I was lost! Lots of fun though in Dundalk and Bldg 136 (Main Bldg) at the Bird

    Comment by Lawrence Lynch — March 4, 2012 @ 6:34 pm

  613. I’m hoping to get my comment through, but my first attempt got erased when I was trying to return from a screen that said my email add. was invalid. So this will be a test.

    Comment by Bob Millen — March 4, 2012 @ 7:09 pm

  614. Good I’m in. So delighted to discover this website and amazed it has gone on so long. I was searching for info on Holabird and was not aware of it’s demise and that it was so long ago. I was in a 97C five month class starting around Nov 1, 67 and ending Mar 68. I was 23, just out of basic at Ft. Ord. A Calif. boy with little prior time on the east coast. I must have been spared the Colgate Creek stench because it was winter, but remember well the yeast smell and that of coal burning. Most of the class lived in a bay in the big brick bldg. Close to the rec room with its one TV. I, too, welcomed the casualness. I can’t even recall any parades and no KP at all. Frequented the Holabird Inn – great subs and fun. One classmate, SSGT Mulrony, had been in the service quite a while, but he related well with us younger fellows. He had the job of getting us all into some semblance of a formation each morning and walking us over to the classes. Can’t recall a swinging bridge, but do remember how cold the mornings were and how warm the classrooms. Seemed like 5 or 6 guys fell asleep through most classes. Had some great instructors, but I’m unable to remember any names. Classmates included Fred Cohen, Lloyd Lavagetto, George Fraser, Frank Novak, Bill Nash. Can picture others, but can’t come up with names. Think there was a class photo, but I’ve lost it. 12 of us got orders to Vietnam with 5th Special Forces (Green Berets.) I think all of us were sweating out that assignment. Fred, Lloyd, George and a few others from class went through a couple wks. of in-country training which included a pretty miserable 3 days in the jungle. I had to carry a Claymore mine and hadn’t a clue how to use it. My recruiter hadn’t described MI this way. I ended up in Pleiku at the B team for II Corps. and they quickly stuck me in the classified doc. custodian job because no one with a T.S.clearance had come thru there in a while. After two months I finally convinced the MI Officer that I could be better used. On to Qui Nhon where I spent the remaining 10mos. at B-22 Detachment located right on a beautiful bay. From there I flew out to A camps and attempted to maintain an agent collection operation which frankly was a joke most of the time. Served with some great guys despite my “leg” status (non-airborne) and lack of the beret. I can honestly say that nothing we were taught in Holabird class applied to Vietnam. At the end of my tour the Sgt. Maj. awarded me a green beret, and even though it didn’t fit and I was not permitted to wear it, it meant a great deal. That I still have. I think we all returned OK from Nam. Most of us ended up at Ft. Bragg at a very useless MI BN. I was so disgusted with our daily tasks there that I wrote my congressman who made a formal inquiry from the Commandant on down. I was called in for interrogation with our CO- a 1Lt who was younger than I and soon I was instructing at an NCO Academy they created suddenly. Later was assigned to another MI unit at Bragg where we spent the day devoted to detailing info about the Cuban military. I’m sure I’ve said far more than I was supposed to but I notice others have done the same. After all it has been 45 yrs.
    Some final recollections of Holabird: Mrs. Klicka and the typing class (I can still type pretty well), case officer/informant simulations on the streets of Dundalk, the rubber dingy invasion exercize from a boat on the Chesepeke to the make-believe enemy encampment on shore, and the time we all were supplied airline tickets to various cities to try to outwit the CI guys. I went to El Paso, and think I was doing pretty well during an interrogation at the police facilities when they had me strip and discovered a laundry mark on a shirt with my true initials. I hope someone from my class remembers me and shoots off an email. I once ran into Lloyd Lavagetto in Oakland during the 70’s and Fred Cohen visited San Diego about 6 years ago and we had dinner together with our wives. All the best to everyone. Keep this going. Bob

    Comment by Bob Millen — March 4, 2012 @ 8:16 pm

  615. I and 38 other freshly minted 2d lieutenants were members of Training Group B-270, dubbed by Major General Boniface Campbell as “The Golden Horde.” We were given that title because we were unique to “The Bird” — the products of ROTC programs at our respective colleges and universities who were ordered to report directly to Fort Holabird without first going to combat arms schools, eg., the Infantry School at Fort Benning. General Campbell wore several hats, post commander, commandant of the Army Intelligence School, and chief of the Counter Intelligence Corps. He and Mrs Campbell took a special interest in our group because of its unique character. At General Campbell’s insistence, all military personnel on post were required to march in a parade every Friday afternoon. Each company was larger than normal because there were as many as four or even five ranks of officers in it. The parade was led by the “renowned” Fort Holabird drum and bugle corps. At the conclusion of the parade, the officers repaired en masse to the officers club for happy hour. Our training as counterintelligence officers lasted from July to November. It included a highly improvised, one-week platoon leaders course at Fort Meade, the highlight of which was seizure of a “hill” on the golf course. At the conclusion of our CI officers training, most of the Golden Horde received assignments to CIC field offices throughout the United States. The rest of us remained at Fort Holabird for language training — German for those assigned to EUCOM and Japanese for those assigned to AFFE/Eighth Army in Japan. The German language course was six months in duration. The eight-week Japanese language course, which I took, consisted of intensive drilling in spoken Japanese eight hours a day, five days a week. Nine of us took Japanese and I was class valedictorian, the only time in my life that I was a valedictorian. After my language training, I reported to headquarters, 441st CIC Detachment in Tokyo, where I served as assistant S3 (plans and operations) for almost six months. I was then reassigned to headquarters, 308th CIC Detachment, in Seoul Korea. My first assignment was pay officer for the 308th. This entailed paying our American personnel in military skrip and Korean personnel in hwon, not only at our headquarters, but at our far flung field offices and resident agencies throughout South Korea. I traveled to those offices and agencies mostly by L-19 aircraft and on a couple occasions by jeep, so I managed to see most of the country in all of its rugged beauty. Accomplishing this task took almost four weeks. After that assignment, I was chief of the research section of the counter subversive branch for the remainder of my tour of duty in Korea. In early July 1956, I left Korea for Oakland Army Terminal in California where I was separated from the service and returned to civilian life. In October 1999, 23 members of the Golden Horde gathered in Bethesda, Maryland, a suburb of our Nation’s capital, for a three-day reunion. Dan Goggin of Neenah, Wisconsin, who conceived the idea of a reunion, and I managed to track down every member of the Horde, including some who were deceased, by using well honed investigative skills which we acquired at the Bird. I organized the reunion program which included sessions on Project Venona, which broke the codes of the Soviet GRU (military intelligence) and KGB in World War II, and on the future of intelligence. We also toured the National Cryptologic Museum at Fort Meade and had a banquet at the Fort Myer officers club in nearby Arlington, Virginia. We regaled ourselves with many tales about our time at the Bird as well as our subsequent assignments. Those were the days!

    Comment by Dick Murphy — March 6, 2012 @ 3:19 pm

  616. God I LOVE this site. I can smell Colgate Creek and taste the Harley Burgers. As I sip my Bud, I can see the bottles of Old Mr Boston booze on the shelf behind the bar at the Holabird Inn.

    Thanks for the memories.

    Comment by bill — March 7, 2012 @ 12:32 am

  617. I forgot to say what year we were trained at Fort Holabird. It was 1954.

    Comment by Dick Murphy — March 7, 2012 @ 9:42 am


    Comment by ben burt — March 11, 2012 @ 10:06 pm

  619. I was at Holabird in early 1954 and then posted to the 470th Detachment in Panama. It was a good tour of duty and I learned a lot. It provided the incentive for writing my recently published novel “Hot Times in Panamá” and starting a blog: http://frankebabb.blogspot.com.

    Comment by Frank Babb — March 14, 2012 @ 8:35 pm

  620. Frank, Do you remember agents Pete Schuford or Harry Levy during your days in Panama. I worked with those two later in the late ’60s.
    Gordon Cooper, coopgl@cox.net

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — March 14, 2012 @ 11:08 pm

  621. Gordon, I don’t remember them. My section spent a lot of time in Panamá, and we stayed away from the office as much as possible, usually checking in at 7:30 AM and checking out for Panamá at 7:31 AM.


    Comment by Frank Babb — March 16, 2012 @ 1:16 pm

  622. Not many guys left from 1957 & 1958. We had a group that went to Stuttgart, Germany. Schiefelbein and Durhman are still alive and living in the mid-west.

    Comment by Ken Berg — March 17, 2012 @ 3:28 pm

  623. WOW, after all these years, I stumbled on your site. What a flood of memories it has brought
    I did basic at Ft or, Ca, Nov 65 through Jan 66. Arrived at Holabird in Mar. for 5-6 weeks casual duty, primarily working at the NACC (if you were there then, you know what that was. Graduated 66-C-7C around May, and stayed at the ‘bird until ETS in Aug 68 (got out 100 days early to go enter college in CA). Worked with Bosnich and Griffith (above) within the USAIRR building. Griffith and I worked on briefing materials for GEN Blakefield. After service, got BA in Architecture at UC Berkeley on GI Bill. Retired in 2002 after many years in engineering and construction management. Now living life of leisure in Arizona, with main hobby of restoring 1926 Ford Model Coupe. It is coming along well.
    I would love to hear from alumni:

    PS, I know the origin of the original sphinx in front of the HQ Building whose breasts were cupped by so many of us back then! She was natural-born French!!!

    Comment by Forrest V. Kahle — March 20, 2012 @ 3:28 am

  624. And does anyone remember the great Al Strappeli (who played various roles for student training)

    Comment by Andrews Campbell — March 24, 2012 @ 1:59 pm

  625. I remember Al very well. I served on the FTX Committee from 1966 – 1968 with him. (Also with Dennis Cook, Tom Gruhalla,Lee Carter, Jimmy Hyatt and many others) Also saw him in the very long running play “The Drunkard” downtown. His was a character; very talented and funny.

    Comment by Don Clifton — March 28, 2012 @ 2:50 pm

  626. I was there from late spring of 1963 and was sent to 902nd at the Pentagon. Got out in December of 65.

    Comment by Robert Hurley — March 31, 2012 @ 11:19 pm

  627. Stumbled onto this sight..what enjoyable read.I was at Holabird from 1/68- 10/70 assigned to Ops..97D..what a great experience with great people Art Keener,Bill Murphy,John Beemer,Dale Brown,Bill Horton,Tom Djelowski,Mike Sweeny,Dawn Reinhardt,George Cvetan,Sweetpea,Pat Pulaski,Pat Urban,Tom Cona,Larry Howard,Sgt Pellern,Sgt Severn,Great folks who I hope are all well today..thanks for the memories..

    Comment by tom wiand — April 1, 2012 @ 9:32 pm

  628. DID ANY OF YOU SERVE IN GERMANY IN LATE 60’S KNOW A JAMEs(JIM) ANDERSON FROM OKLAHOMA? HE MADE W.O. SOMETIME DURNG HIS TOUR. JIM & i were in same platoon at FT< POLK in Spring 1963, then we both went through 97b course at the BIRD from July through Nov. 63. He went to germany, I to Okinawa. BEN BURT

    Comment by ben burt — April 4, 2012 @ 9:00 pm

  629. I was at Ft Holabird in the summer and fall of 1968,
    trained as an interrogator (linguist-German) then sent
    to Germany, first 8th MID in Bad Kreuznach, then to
    the Fulda Border Residence Office (Fulda BRO), and
    finally was assigned to the Soviet Orientation Team
    with duty station Stuttgart Military Intelligence
    Detachment of the 66th MI Group. I went to jump school
    at the 8th Div jump school in Mainz/Wiesbaden since
    I was technically assigned to the 8th INf Div (abn)
    when I was at the Fulda BRO. Civilian clothing status
    while in Fulda.

    Comment by keith hawkinson — April 5, 2012 @ 4:58 pm

  630. I was in Ft. Holabird in 1966 to 1967
    Does anyone remember people who worked in the dispensary. Anyone have any pics of the post.
    I worked the Wac Detachment and later went to type orders. Would Like a photo of the post.
    So many years and so many memories. I tried working at the Harley Burger place only two weekends, it was a busy place. Please respond …Thank you

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio (Partala) — April 6, 2012 @ 12:06 pm

  631. added from comment 630…there was also an MP named Bill; was I believe from New Mexico. What a awesome guy he was !!! like a brother…

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio (Partala) — April 6, 2012 @ 1:01 pm

  632. Does the name Horst Borkmeuller (sp) ring a bell? How about rowing a black 8-man raft on the Chesapeake Bay in the total darkness to meet the friendly fisherman and then spending several hours trying to cross a border of choice to get back to the friendly fisherman without getting caught? Jumping in and out of a very small black plane capable of landing on a very dark field? Only the “spooks” got to have that much fun at night.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — April 6, 2012 @ 1:19 pm

  633. Addition to comment 629. There was a SFC Liparato
    who was the mess sergeant at Holabird while I was there
    in 1968. Some of the guys in my interrogation class were
    George Grimmet, Mark Welch, John Vernon, Chuck Patele,
    Perkins (last name0, and about 12 Marines all of whom
    were NCO’s. At my duty station at the Fulda Border Resident Office in 68-69 the SAIC was Mullins (last name),
    and the others there I remember were Jan Neyman, Mark Borden, Steve Kish, Premsyl Filip, and Karl Poehm. Premsyl had the distinction of serving in Vietnam with
    two armiies – the French Foreign Legion and the US Army.
    Our headquarters was Bad Hersfeld, the OIC was a Lt.
    Bodnar who we affectionately called donut. There was
    a John Hemmersmeier I remember at Bad Hersfeld. We also
    had people at Kassel.

    Comment by keith hawkinson — April 6, 2012 @ 1:42 pm

  634. RE: Post 30, there are photos on Facebook at this site:


    There is a video on YouTube. Just type in Fort Holabird in the search box.

    Comment by bill — April 6, 2012 @ 10:53 pm

  635. response to 630. I was in a transient barracks
    awaiting assignment to a class before I was assigned
    a bed in the big brick dormitory when my interrogation
    class began. The transient barracks was next door to the WAC barracks where I saw the WACS in formation undergoing
    inspection outside in the mornings. The barracks on the other
    side of my transient barracks was occupied by a National
    Guard or reserve unit from upstate New York. One of them had a
    beautiful 68 camaro or firebird.

    Comment by keith hawkinson — April 13, 2012 @ 8:12 am

  636. I think we were the first transient/casual folks to open that particular barracks in September 1967 waiting for classes to start . No curtains, poor WACS.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 24, 2012 @ 5:47 pm

  637. Re:591 Rita Schaub. I remember you from Munich. You and several other girls whose names I forget. One gal was a former WAVE. Sallie Brittle was Lt Col Himmelwright’s sect. My e-mail is ed-gail@juno.com Drop me a line and I will give you Dave Good and Bob Flynn’s email address.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — April 25, 2012 @ 5:34 pm

  638. An amazing site—all the fun reminiscences.

    I am reading the notes and responding because a friend told me a little about her experiences at Ft. Holabird. Although some of her memories match (e.g., the suspension bridge over the foul Colgate Creek), most are entirely unlike any written about above.

    She was there during the summer/fall 1962 and again in 1965 or 1966 when she was about 2 and 5 years old. It seems that she was being used in various psychological experiments with LSD and other tests (none of them fun). She must surely have been seen since she spent some time outside in addition to barrack room, testing rooms, and the infirmary.

    Does anyone remember seeing such a child there or know anything that would relate to such memories?

    Comment by Alicia Leaf — April 26, 2012 @ 1:26 am


    Comment by ben burt — April 30, 2012 @ 10:54 pm

  640. My father, Thomas O Schlesinger, was an instructor (CPT, US Army) at Ft Holabird, 1957-1960. He was born in Berlin, Germany and came to the US in 1940. World War II svc incl Battle of the Bulge and Remagen Bridge; he was a “Ritchie Boy” assigned to the Counter Intelligence Corps. Following svc in the Korean War, he participated in Upshot Knothole atomic test (1953). Assignments included interpreter to Lt. General Wm Arnold, U.S. Forces Austria; Southern European Forces (SETAF) Italy; Germany; Ft. Holabird, Md., and Green Beret instructor, John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center, Ft. Bragg, N.C. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/concordmonitor/obituary.aspx?n=thomas-o-schlesinger&pid=155910319

    Comment by Annie Brock — April 30, 2012 @ 11:15 pm

  641. Ben (#639),

    Few permanent party visited the then “infamous” East Baltimore Street. Never went there.

    Annie (#640),

    Was your dad in the Ritchie Boys” documentary? He served in the hayday of the CIC. Did not know him as I let in October of ’57 and was a lowly Sp-4. I suspect he had some interesting WWII stories. Post WWII Austria was a real active CIC area.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — May 1, 2012 @ 9:39 am

  642. Manny glad to see you”re still out there

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — May 1, 2012 @ 8:37 pm

  643. ben burt: Reference your post on the infamous Baltimore Block district, I arrived at Holabird in 1967 and the very first night there hopped a taxi down to the block, still in my uniform. Ended up buying one of the dancers at the Club Troc a champagne split and she assured me we would be meeting after the club closed for more fun. Never happened.

    Comment by David Morin — May 2, 2012 @ 8:27 pm


    Comment by ben burt — May 3, 2012 @ 11:02 pm

  645. My experience with the block was like most others. one time and that was it. i remember a cold december sunday morning. a buddy and i had hopped a bus for a visit. wwe were still in class “a”s that day. we were a couple of country bumpkins sure enough. we were walking around looking it over and spotted a young woman sitting in the window sill on the second floor of one of the buildings. best i remember it was a “theater”. she was wearing next to nothing as i remeber and that was see through. scared me to death. i had never seen or heard anything like that. offered to give us both something we had never had before. first thing that came to mind was “the plague”. boy did we turn tail and hotfoot it out of there. we all but ran back up to the bus pickup point and back to the “bird” only to return during the training as part of the fox and hound training. was much more comfortable that time, but was an interesting story for that as well. will tell that later. great to hear all these tales. as previously i went from the bird to the language school in monterey california, then to korea to the 502nd MI Bn. I was in Baltimore when the Beetles came to the US and onel of my buddines took the train to NY to see them. seems like they were there on a sat or sun, don”t remember which. best i recall that was in the spring of 1964,but before May 1964. I left in late April 1964 for Monterey and spent a year there. hope to hear from some of you folks. j. bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — May 4, 2012 @ 4:37 pm

  646. What a great site. Such wit and smarts.


    Comment by manny adler — May 6, 2012 @ 9:31 am

  647. My initial visit to the “block” was not a plesant one -when we discovered the downtown Baltimore clubs were still segregated in 1965. Hard to believe but true!

    Comment by john tarantino — May 17, 2012 @ 1:47 pm

  648. A question maybe someone knows about. i was a 96B (analyst) and after I returned from Vietnam I was offered a Warrant Officer comission. Has anyone heard of this and what would have been involved. OCS type school Etc. Thanks, Bill Adv Tm 51

    Comment by Bill Ballou — May 19, 2012 @ 7:15 pm

  649. I was in the agent’s course July-October 1962 at the Bird. My class was the Honor Guard. Other than looking sharp for the Friday afternoon parade, we had no duties such as KP. We appeared as the Honor Guard when the Golden Sphinx was dedicated on a hot morning in August. All of us passed Miss Klecka’s (sp?) typing class. She slowed me down from 70 wpm with errors to 40 wpm error-free. She threatened to “retain” our group leader, Sgt Mulkey because he used one finger per hand to type – — the typical newsroom method.
    I went to Columbia SC (Ft Jackson) for five months (two months spent in South Florida (Homestead AFB and Miami F.O.) I spent three years in East Tenn in the Smokie Mountains visiting credit bureaus, courthouses, UT, etc.

    Comment by John Robins — May 20, 2012 @ 12:38 pm

  650. i suspect that situatiion was not that unusual given the investment made in many of us. as i was preparing to muster out in 1963, i too was offered a warrent officer appointment, upon the condition that i reup 6 years. i was also promised any assigbnment i wanted, go to additional schools, dame, dase and pollygraph, ocs amoung others. i opted to muster out, return to school, college and law school. now almost 50 years later i find myself semi retired, working most days, and doing only what i enjoy doing to help people.
    given our unique talents and albility i susperct there were several of us who found ourself in the same shoes.

    Comment by James H. Bone — May 21, 2012 @ 10:52 am

  651. oops i meant to sayh 1966,

    Comment by James H. Bone — May 21, 2012 @ 10:52 am


    Comment by ben burt — May 21, 2012 @ 8:26 pm

  653. I had five minutes to decide to extend my enlistment and go to Language School for Hungarian or go to the Columbia SC Field Office at Ft. Jackson. The Good Lord above guided me to Columbia. Seven months later the first civilian I met offpost on the afternoon I reported to Columbia (and was put on a four-hour alert to go to Homestead AFB, Florida) and I were married. We will celebrate 49 years in June! I eventually extended three times as the bureaucrats searched for the paperwork for my commission. By the time my orders came through for my commission, I had decided to return to civilian life. Rejected the commission and assignment in Korea and really ticked off my superiors. Was then offered E-7 and $9,000 bonus to re-up for six years. No, I wanted out. Was then offered a temporary GS-7 job to stay in Knoxville as a civilian. Probably should have taken that position. I was concerned about going from being the unofficial SAIC of Knoxville to being the low man on the totem pole – working for an E-7 who was probably conducting curbstone interviews etc. He was retired by the Corps shortly after my departure.

    Comment by John Robins — May 22, 2012 @ 9:37 am

  654. I was on USAINTC headquarters staff 1960-62 (AGC) and then reserve duty G1 for three more years. Any other old permanent party people still around?

    Comment by Phil Buley — May 22, 2012 @ 4:18 pm

  655. RE: Entry 649. I received a WO appointment coming out of Vietnam in 1971, but had completed the WO application and board process prior to deploying. In those days there was no WO school and, even if promised, a Commanding Officer could not unilaterly make a WO appointment. A Dept of Army board had final say on who was appointed. The process did not apply to helicopter pilots who were appointed upon graduation from flight school. In today’s Army all applicants must attend a fairly rigorous school before appointment.

    Comment by Ed Harris — May 22, 2012 @ 7:03 pm

  656. Hi to all. Remember our friends who are not with us any more this Holiday. I know a lot who would have liked this site.


    Comment by David Edmonds — May 24, 2012 @ 2:29 pm

  657. Phil (#654),

    Yep. See posts.


    Comment by manny adler — May 29, 2012 @ 3:09 pm

  658. You all are doing a super job keeping this link going with great memories. Thanks

    Comment by John Washington — May 29, 2012 @ 5:42 pm

  659. Sunday my wife and I were at our washtenaw County, MI VVA watchfire (retiring worn flags) at our local Vietnam Memorial. When I heard two men that were not guys that I recognize from our chapter talking about Ft Holibird. It stopped me in my tracks. One had been there in the late 50’s and aGAIN in 66. the other man had been there in 1962 for the Officers Basic Course. none of had met before. I must be getting old,I can’t remember the names but I told them of the web site.

    Comment by Bill Ballou — May 29, 2012 @ 6:46 pm

  660. Hi! Great site.
    I was wondering if anyone knows anything about Holabird’s involvement in New Mexico and/or MIT in the 1940’s and 50’s? My father was a civil service employee with the Signal Corps out of the radar shop. He also knew morse code and I am wondering if he learned through Holabird.
    Feel free to email me. Arrendakatherine@gmail.com

    Comment by Arrenda — June 11, 2012 @ 1:52 pm

  661. Can’t believe I’m just stumbling onto this site now. What great reminiscences I’ve read.

    I went through the Area Studies course from the Fall of ’67 until March ’68. We had some memorable instructors, including Col. Peacock and a fellow who once described Lavrentiy Beria attacking a subordinate by leaping across a table like a “Slavic Mary Poppins.” The long field problem was arduous but started with submarine time in Puerto Rico and ended in San Fran. Got in some great meals.

    Two years as a case officer with the 4th Bn, 525 MI Gp in the Nam, which, in hindsight, was entirely too long.

    Best to all.

    Comment by George Billock — June 13, 2012 @ 2:50 am

  662. Arrifving from upstate NY, by way of Ft. Dix, I had the same surprise in Dec 68 that others from Basic Training did- Too early for class I was told to get lost untill New Year’s. I wandered the facility and ended up meeting the then-DAME chief, CWO “Bob W.”
    I had been recruited out of the locksmith ranks to teach in DAME, but had to be an Agent first. After my CI Agent mos 97B4L29 was granted in May ’69, I was sent to Germany. It was an act of kindness by SGT Schmackels and other DAME friends who knew what I needed was a field tour, not a tour on the soapbox. I’ve stayed in touch with my 66th MI and Munich Station friends for decades and a few from ‘902nd… Mostly I’ve wondered where the Sphynx ended up and if its butt still gets painted blue from time to time. THank you for your great site and fun memories here…

    Comment by Dave K — June 13, 2012 @ 9:34 am

  663. i was at ft. holabird for the 96c course in 1969. went to jroc in berlin from there. anybody else?

    Comment by gdmbrd — June 17, 2012 @ 8:25 pm

  664. this is an excellent site – thank you for maintaining it.

    Comment by gdmbrd — June 17, 2012 @ 8:28 pm

  665. Allow me to echo the positive comments about this site. I also stumbled upon it while doing some research for a book. My mind immediately took a trip down Memory Lane. I was stationed there toward the end…1972 thru March of 1973. Being a draftee, I couldn’t have asked for a better assignment. Most of the posters to this site seem like they had some connection to USAINT. I was assigned to the Crime Records Directorate of USACIDC (CID). We only had one office just outside of the repository for the Intelligence dossiers. I am originally from Chicago, and would have gone back there after discharge, except I met a civilian woman working in the repository and ended staying in the Baltimore area…and still live in a northern suburb.
    What more could you ask for in a post? Everything was convenient. We had a fully equipped gym, athletic fields and a movie theater. If you wanted to work on your car, we had a complete motor pool. If you didn’t want to eat in the mess hall, we always had Harley’s right across the street, as well as Jimmy’s Seafood and Squires, if you wanted pizza. Did anyone mention Captain Harvey’s for the best cheese steaks around? I played on the post softball and basketball teams and intramural football. I stayed in the brick barracks just inside the main gate and had my own room.
    For those of you that have never been back, I must admit, that it was a sad day when they tore the place down. The apartments just outside the fort on Dundalk Avenue are even gone. Dundalk, however, is still Dundalk. I can remember the first time we tried to venture into Baltimore. What a mistake. You wouldn’t believe how the Inner Harbor has changed since thos days.
    I had a lot of good memories there. Thank you bringing them back to life. I can’t believe that so many of you can remember such details as building numbers and names. I still have several of the USAINTC newspapers, if anyone is interested in a copy for your scrapbook. Chopas@aol.com

    Comment by Jim Lundquist — June 20, 2012 @ 11:37 am

  666. Re 558.

    I think we were in the same 97B course. I arrived at The Bird in July 68 and off to my POD, 108th in Newark, NJ in November. ETSed in Apr 71. Hooked on with the Treasury Department in Newark and in a small office of 13, 5 had been MI agents as it was great training. In my papers I am sure I have a copy of the graduation program to look up details.

    Comment by Vince Cavallo — June 21, 2012 @ 1:02 pm

  667. I am stuck on finding people that were there in January 1967 until May 1967. There was a Wac that was a nurse in our quarter,If I remember correctly her name was Kathy, and she was tall. Also am trying to locate the males that worked in the dispensary. Often wonder where they went.

    Comment by Sieglinde (Partala) Bonfilio — June 22, 2012 @ 8:52 am

  668. #665 I Was using my name as Linda since it is shorter than my legal name.
    and was from New Jersey

    Comment by Sieglinde (Partala) Bonfilio — June 22, 2012 @ 8:54 am

  669. My comment didn’t come up

    Comment by Sieglinde (Partala) Bonfilio — June 22, 2012 @ 10:26 am

  670. Oh Sorry It did…#665,666 and 667 Hope someone can help or remember…thank you

    Comment by Sieglinde (Partala) Bonfilio — June 22, 2012 @ 10:27 am

  671. Re. 666

    I’m sorry Vince but your name doesn’t ring a bell, but there were about 50 of us. Since I was married during the class, I had a bachelor party in the NCO club. My father and father-in-law-to-be were present. Both gentlemen were drinkers of the first order, but they cut me off after something like six doubles of Seagrams VO in less than an hour. I’ve never been so drunk or so sick. Hardly remember my wedding. My wife says she was holding me up for most of the ceremony. Ah, the stupidity of youth.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — June 23, 2012 @ 1:07 pm

  672. I attended classes @ Holabird from March to Sept. in ’62. We went from there to K’ town, and then were assigned to work with the Air Force @ Toul Rosiere in France.One of the easiest and most fun jobs I ever had.
    We were trained as photo interpretators, and worked with the 19th TRS.It was the closest thing to an 8-5 job the military offered.I served with a couple of guys
    I am still in touch with over 45 yrs. later.

    Comment by Dayne Tracy — June 23, 2012 @ 2:48 pm

  673. Denis, I recall the Gunny so we must have been in the same class. Don’t recall the bachelor party but each weekend I usually made my way up to NJ after class on Friday and back late sunday evening…I hooked rides back with a fellow in an earlier class who had a Sunbeam Tiger, Booth was his name. Nice guy, went to language school I believe.

    Comment by Vince Cavallo — June 24, 2012 @ 2:47 pm

  674. DLISC Class of 9-47-68 Vietnamese, Saigon Dialect. I was sent to USAINTS May 1969…..RVN July 69 with 82d ABN Psyops, then to 191st MI DET 1st Cav. Phuoc Vinh…..then shipped out to Quan Loi where I supported any Cav unit (Interrogator).
    Remember Dick Parone and Mike Dudman from Language school.

    Comment by David Holmberg — June 27, 2012 @ 2:45 am

  675. To Howell Sasser. I was stationed at Holibird from Spring of 1960 to Fall of 1962. See comments 453 and 455

    Comment by walter r illston — June 28, 2012 @ 6:24 pm

  676. I was at the Bird in 1969 for the Interrogators course with a 96C2L29 MOS.
    Went to Ft. Meade from there for about 5 months and then to the 66th MI Group, 18th MI Battalion, with field station Berlin -to JROC (Joint Refugee Operations Center) until separation.

    If anyone who frequents this site was stationed there during the late 60’s to mid-70’s, please respond to this. Would love to make contact with anyone stationed in Berlin during that time frame.

    Gary Miller

    Comment by gdmbrd — June 29, 2012 @ 7:44 pm

  677. Re. 676

    Gary, I was assigned to Berlin in June 70 and left in June 72. Being at the ASA field station made me an agent not under the 66th MI, much to the annoyance of their commander, LTC Austin. Unfortunately, that left me and my partner, Robin Reeve out in the cold and they kept trying to scoop us up. We were only concerned with internal security of the FS and the new ops building being built on TeufelsBerg. Good stuff but kind of lonely.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — June 30, 2012 @ 12:16 am

  678. Was at Holabird from June ’67 to November ’67. 96B & C. sent to schofield Barracks Hawaii for a month before deploying to I corps with 52 MID, 11th Infantry in Dec. ’67. Just in time for Tet. Best friends at Holabird: Phil Banko, Mike Yeager, and Phil Bleaker. 52nd is organizing a reunion for Feb 2013 in Cocoa Beach Fla.

    Comment by Tony Gaye — June 30, 2012 @ 10:12 am

  679. to 453,4,5

    General Prather’s chrome jeep on Friday parades. Sounds like you were there….the ATTENTION TO ORDERS on the PA was most likely my voice in 60-62.

    Comment by Phil Buley — June 30, 2012 @ 3:26 pm

  680. served in 66th cic detach at karlsruhe germany 195152
    looking for buddy john carson (wife terry) if you see
    this send me a message your age 83 me too been looking
    for you for past 40 plus years

    Comment by charles a imhoff — July 1, 2012 @ 3:02 pm

  681. looking for john carson or carlson fellow agent
    66th cic detalch at karlsruhe germany in 1952-53 wife
    Terry have tried to reach you off and on over the years if anyone who knows you or you hopefully sees this
    please send message we were best buds

    Comment by charles a imhoff — July 1, 2012 @ 3:05 pm

  682. re. 677

    Denis – thank you for the response and nice to meet another “Island City” spook. I had some friends at Teufelsberg about the time you were there – all Russian linguist “intercepters”. Were you still in Berlin when Bob Hope came through?

    All the best,


    Comment by gdmbrd — July 3, 2012 @ 7:03 pm

  683. Re. 682

    No, Gary, I wasn’t there. Closest I got to Hope was Christmas 66 when he came through Bien Hoa in VN. I was in the hospital close by but we didn’t get to go. Martha Raye was in his troupe and she came by and gave the patients a small show. She did material that would never make the family show on TV but was just right for a bunch of soldiers.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — July 3, 2012 @ 11:55 pm

  684. (continued)

    Gary, we don’t have to bore the rest of the ‘bird men and women on Berlin stuff. You can contact me directly at dwspelman(at)hotmail(dot)com if you want to continue the conversation.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — July 3, 2012 @ 11:59 pm

  685. HAPPY 4th of July, for all that have served. And remembering All that are not with us and overseas.

    Comment by Siegline Bonfilio — July 4, 2012 @ 12:18 pm

  686. to 648 – hi Bill

    I worked with a 96c named Cattrenick in 69/70 at JROC in Berlin who got a WO appointment and went from E6 to WO in one day! He moved doen to Munich and later Augsburg to 66th MI HQ after that.

    Gary Miller

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 7, 2012 @ 5:00 am

  687. Got into Holabird December of 1969. 96D2T did rather well and was one of two of us who didn’t go to Vietnam. Found myself in Korea in I Corps G-2Air working shift work on SLAR and other stuff that had more to do with Vietnam than Korea.

    Holabird was cold and stank. The Colgate creek was so polluted it had foam on it all the time.

    We marched to classes and all attempted to lock step and collapse the footbridge over the creek. We where nuts…

    Had a couple of weeks of Casual waiting for class. Learned to cook and bake… Did a lot of wierd shit for the agents courses as well.

    Got sent down to For McNaier for BESRL over in Arlington. Sealed my fate as I was good at SLAR imagery.
    Got called out for riot control a few times.

    Schuttle back and forth to NJ as much as I could afford. I think we got $95.00 a month pay.

    Wow lotsa of stories here going to bookmark…

    Comment by Edward Cox — July 8, 2012 @ 3:58 am

  688. Ed (#687),

    Enjoyed your post. Great sense of humor even if I haave no idea what the acronyms stand for.


    Comment by manny adler — July 10, 2012 @ 11:31 am

  689. Ed – re 687

    I left Holabird about the time you arrived. Did you ever get into Baltimore and go to either Hollywood Park or Judges? Great clubs with fantastc music and girls! Judges had a slide in it and was located pretty close to the Orioles / Colts stadium as I recall.

    Gary Miller

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 14, 2012 @ 2:12 pm

  690. Reference 632. I believe you had to ask the fisherman “How are the soft shell crabs biting” or something like that. Got caught in the wire. Did the black raft and the airplane landing in some cow pasture in the middle of the night. Good times then but I’m sure the Army does not have any Fort Holibird now.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — July 19, 2012 @ 6:25 pm

  691. SLAR Side Looking Airborne Radar

    BESRL Behaviour Engineering Science Research Lab ( I guess we were unsuspecting lab rats for the CIA or something)

    It was a strange year 1969… Never got into town or clubs as I spent my time running up to NJ via Greyhound whenever I could.

    Everyone knew fate was around the corner so family and girlfreinds were top priority. Besides we had no money to speak of. The big pay increase as a year or so away…

    Spook training volunteers was great fun. Always was a riot to goof a fledgling agent up and watch them go off on a tangent. Got up to Aberdeen and such a few times…

    Oh so long ago///

    The crabs you eat today slept last night in Chesapeake Bay!!!!

    Comment by Edward Cox — July 20, 2012 @ 2:11 am

  692. I am a Dundalk photographer and writer – and was a U.S. Army photographer on Okinawa in 1970-71. I live about a hundreds yards from the former Ft. Holabird. The officer’s club is the only army building left, and it is occupied by Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 451. The jeep and other vehicle test and training ramps are still there, but are overgrown with trees and bushes.

    Here is a web page with a copy of a very good aerial photo of Ft. Holabird:

    More photos and memories are available at the local museum:

    Dundalk Patapsco Neck Historical Society and Museum
    4 Center Place
    Dundalk, MD 21222
    phone: 410-284-2331
    e-mail: dundalkhistory@verizon.net

    I’m the computer fix-it guy for them at the museum, and they aren’t too keen on using emails, so that isn’t the best way to contact them.

    I’m always looking to find photos of Ft. Holabird and the Intelligence School and Green Beret training areas of Ft. Howard. Also like written stories about them. Ft. Howard is now a county park where the Intel and Green Beret training was done. A few remnants of mock Vietnam facilities remain, but are rotting and going to dust. You can find various recent photos of Ft. Howard Park amongst my photo sets at:

    Ft. Holabird is still a favorite topic of conversation in my neighborhood. I enjoyed reading the blog post and as many comments as I have time for.
    Did you know that the army had missiles pointed at both Ft. Holabird and the steel mills at nearby Sparrows Point? Couldn’t let the enemy take the Intel School and records of reports by agents from around the world and the steel mills made armaments ( http://davidrobertcrews.blogspot.com/2010/05/growing-up-with-nuclear-war-fears-in.html ).

    MP friends took me in to see where the Watergate Burglars had been kept at Holabird – it was 3 a.m. and the building had Mafia Informers sleeping in the dark and 7 Federal Marshals setting up on guard duty reading and playing cards. The building was surrounded by more barbed wire and concertina razor wire than you ever saw in one place. The MPs also took me to the mock Vietnam Village in Ft. Howard. It had just been made unusable for training, because the Intel School had moved to Arizona and Ft. Holabird was virtually empty.

    I once went to the Nat’l Archives looking for Ft. Howard photos from the Intel School and Green Beret training days, but only found a few shots of Green Berets in early 1960s fatigues, carrying old M 14 Rifles, while walking the shoreline of Ft. Howard.

    If you ever get back to the Ft.Holabird area, go the the museum in Dundalk Village Shopping Center across from the post office. They have Ft. Holabird photos ready for you to look at. And if you have any photos or any other Holabird stuff you want donated to the right place, it should probably go to that museum. Many people will see the stuff, and various history researchers will have access to it.

    It’s great to see so many comments over such a continuing timeline to such a really cool story.

    Comment by David Robert Crews {a.k.a. ursusdave} — July 21, 2012 @ 1:46 am

  693. David Crews, have you watched the video on YouTube for Fort Holabird? There are some pictures on Facebook at “Fort Holabird” also.

    Comment by bill — July 21, 2012 @ 11:25 pm

  694. At the Bird for two iterations of training (CI Coordinator Course and CI Agent Course) and one permanent duty assignment (Department of Nonresident Instruction, U.S. Army Intelligence School), all during the 1960s.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — July 26, 2012 @ 3:15 pm

  695. Reference 677. Denis Spelman, I remember you. I was assigned to the 766th MI Detachment in Berlin, aka Berlin Station, 66th MI Group, and one of the commanders at the time was LTC Garrett A. Austin. He could be an SOB. That was my first assignment as a CI Agent. I remember the CI guys who were attached to the USASA Field Station and how the commander hated you guys because he had no control over you. Berlin was a great assignment!

    Comment by Linda Matthews — July 27, 2012 @ 10:26 am

  696. Re. 695

    Linda, your name rings a bell, either Holabird or Berlin. Austin was bad enough in Berlin but my Colonel, William Hamilton, was one of the senior colonels in the city and kept him at bay. But Hamilton retired and Austin became G-2 or some such at ASA HQ, in my direct chain! He made one trip to Europe not long before I left and he was headed to Berlin for one day. We got a back-channel message what day he was coming and, unfortunately, my wife and I took the British duty train out of town that day. I don’t recall ever meeting the man but he sure had it in for me.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — July 28, 2012 @ 11:52 pm

  697. Reference 696. Yes, Austin was assigned to HQ, USASA at Arlington Hall Station after Berlin. Don’t know what his duty position was. He died shortly thereafter.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — July 30, 2012 @ 1:46 pm

  698. Reference 67. MIDMAC: Loyalty, integrity, discretion, morals, and character.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — July 30, 2012 @ 1:55 pm

  699. Really enjoyed reading all the stories about the good ol days. Arrived at the Bird in Sept 1967 after basic in Tenn. Enrolled in 97C and made friends like Bob Miles. Discussed the stock market while eating SOS for breakfast. Unbelievable college-type environment. Tasted the greatest subs ever just across the street. Remember the butcher slicing the meat for the subs. Why didn’t I start Subway? Of our class, 6 went to Korea (Remember the Pueblo) and the rest to RVN. Worked at the Inchon Field Station with fine Koreans. Extended over there and ETSed in Feb. 1970. Rod Hare and David Frager, where are you now? Good times.

    Comment by John Lewis — July 31, 2012 @ 9:00 pm

  700. Like many, I stumbled upon this great site by googling my MOS – 96C2L29.
    it is really interesting to read others experiences before, during and after Holabird.

    As an Air Force brat (born at March AFB hospital), I went into the Army in 1968, took basic at Ft. Ord (A-5-1 old wooden barracks near the bowling alley), an on graduation was advised of my 96C MOS. I asked what the MOS was at the Orderly room and no one knew – one Noncom thought it was a Cook! At any rate! I was told to get a flight to Baltimore, MD and report to a place called Ft. Holabird. Even as an Air Force brat, I had heard of Army posts like Ft. Bliss, Ft. Hood or Ft. Bragg…….but Ft. Holabird? No clue!

    Upon arrival at what is now BWO, I asked a cabby to take me this Ft. Holabird. I will never forget arriving at the main gate and seeing the arch with “USAINTS” on it. Still clueless (Google didn’t exist then) I asked what USAINTS meant at in-processing. Some Spec4 told me it stood for “United States Army Intelligence School”. Well now I was hot! I thought that the Army felt I was so dumb, I needed to go to “intelligence school”. How embarrassing when that Spec4 explained that I was going to be an Interrogator and that I must speak German.

    That was my introduction to the “Bird”. Hope you don’t mind me rambling?
    More to come later. Great meeting all of you.


    Comment by gdmbrd — August 1, 2012 @ 6:26 pm

  701. Gary (#700),

    Welcome aboard. Looking forward to the rest of your story. I just realized something, we used to be serial numbers and “last fours” and not we are “post numbers”.


    Comment by manny — August 2, 2012 @ 10:12 am

  702. That’s better than plot numbers 😉

    Comment by bill — August 3, 2012 @ 10:41 pm

  703. Thanks Manny. Really glad I found the site. My time at the Bird, then Ft. Meade and finally Berlin, are unbelievable memories. Reading the experiences of everyone here, brings those memories “front and center”.

    I didn’t get to a lot of the places close to post because I met a local girl from Sparrows Point and we often went to one of two good clubs in Baltimore – Hollywood Park or Judges. Great places! one of my off-duty highlights was seeing Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young at the Baltimore Convention Center. That must have been late 1968?

    When I graduated from the Bird, I got orders for Meade. I can’t remember the outfit (527th MI seems to ring bells?). It was a holding company and we were supposedly .all headed to MACV HQ within a few months. I
    actually ended up staying at Meade for about 5 months, translating letters from German women mostly, who were looking for military personnel who had been stationed in Germany and promised the women a life in the USA!

    From Meade I got orders for Berlin – JROC – the Joint Refugee Operations Center – part of the 66th MI Group’s 18th MI Battalion. Absolutely the best duty one could hope for!

    by the way……….good point Bill about the plot numbrs.


    Comment by gdmbrd — August 3, 2012 @ 11:52 pm

  704. I came across this site last night and thought that my Holabird recollections might be of interest to some. Following Basic Training at Fort Leonard Wood in late 1956, I was sent to Fort Holabird to attend the CIC Analyst (971.1 MOS) course. Upon completion, because of my jounalism background, I was assigned to the Public Information Office — the news arm, if you will — of the AIC, where I worked until my 1958 discharge from active duty. Maj. Gen. Richard G. Prather was the newly-assigned CO, having returned to the states from a tour in Thailand. He was determined to make soldiers of us, the enlisted troops; hence, the weekly Friday parades. Helen Klecka, who was our typing teacher, came from a very prominent east-Baltimore family. Our “Clicking with Klecka” lyrics, to the tune of “Pennies from Heaven,” went “Every time you click a key, You’re clicking with Klecka. A, B, C, right on through Z, Clicking with Klecka.” I recall that our gracious Service Club hostess was Mary Victoria Shadl (sp?). Miss Shadl was a Julliard graduate. I recall, too, that the Holabird Library was the only one in the Army system where non-fiction outranked fiction in books borrowed. I don’t rmember the aroma of Colgate Creek, but I do remember the story that the Jeep was tested in its muddy waters before my time there. This would stand to reason, inasmuch as Holabird was the Army’s principal transportation center east of the Mississippi. In those days, the President of the United States travelled by train, and three specially furnished railroad cars for that purpose were maintained in a constant state of readiness. The Liberty Cafe stood opposite the main gate, and the Brentwood Inn did, indeed, have a wine cellar you could tour while your food was being prepared. We took advantage of the tour every time to sample the Cherry Kijafa that always was open and free and available in the cellar. Jack D.

    Comment by Jack Dennerlein — August 9, 2012 @ 7:57 pm

  705. Jack (#704):

    Prather just followed Campbell in the Friday parade business. Must have aa real ego trip for athe brass. It still failed in making us real sold. Our tours overlapped by about nine months or so.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — August 10, 2012 @ 4:43 pm

  706. Manny (#705):

    Nice to hear from you. I was told that the PIO where I worked was part of Gen. Prather’s personal staff. In any event, I worked two offices away from his corner office, and the man never spoke a single word to me in the year and a half I was there. My job allowed me the option of covering the parades with my camera in lieu of marching. Unfortunately, I frequently forgot to load the darn thing with film.

    In my posting, I may have mistakenly identified Helen Klecka as being from the east side of Baltimore. May have been a Freudian slip re East Balto Street. Ms. Klecka was a part of the city’s social set and knew the local newspaper editors. In one case, she helped me get my boss out of an impossible corner when Prather demanded a correction on a story one newspaper — probably the Sun — ran on Holabird’s participation in an annual charity drive. The local papers seldom covered anything happening at the Fort, inasmuch as for years, their inquiries were either unwelcomed or ignored.

    One of myu best friends from those dsys — God rest his soul — was Richard P. Hegarty from Boston, who worked at USAINTS.

    Jack Dennerlein

    Comment by Jack Dennerlein — August 10, 2012 @ 6:39 pm

  707. Manny:

    Do you recall if you were there when someone put a brassiere on the sphinx?

    Jack Dennerlein

    Comment by Jack Dennerlein — August 12, 2012 @ 6:31 pm

  708. Jack(#707):

    Not while I was there that I can recall.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — August 14, 2012 @ 8:50 am

  709. At the Bird late 65 until mid 66. Then 430th MI Det Vicenza Italy from Aug 66 until Aug 68. Anybody from that era still around I would like to hear from you.

    Comment by Lynn Joyce — August 14, 2012 @ 3:40 pm

  710. Manny (#708)

    On one occasion, the troops were assembled in formation in front of the USAINC Headquarters Building as the general awaited the arrival of some foriegn dignitary. The plan was for the twosome to review the troops prior to their business agenda. That’s when someone noticed that in the night, a culprit had fitted a brassiere to the anatomically-correct she-sphinx prominently displayed at the entrance of the HQ Bldg. The item was hurridly confiscated and never heard of again.

    Jack Dennerlein

    Comment by Jack Dennerlein — August 14, 2012 @ 4:07 pm

  711. during my training at Holabird ran into a Fort worth pal in admin.there named Jimmie Jones. Had a Sfc rank at the time I believe. Do any of you remember him? Jimmie is dead now. His sister told me he served a tour or two in Korea. This would have been in late 50’s or early 60’s.

    Comment by ben burt — August 16, 2012 @ 9:13 pm

  712. During my training at the Bird I ran into a Fort Worth pal working in the admin. bldg named Jimmie Jones. He was a SFC at the time I believe. Jimmie has psssed on now. His sister told me he served a tour or two in Korea.This would haave been in the late 50’s or early 60’s. If any of you knew him please respond. thanks. ben burt

    Comment by ben burt — August 16, 2012 @ 9:25 pm

  713. What a flood of memories this website has brought back for me. Beginning with “A Q space Semicolon P space”. I proudly served the Battle of Colgate Creek from 1963 to 1966 in the G-2’s office at USAINTC. I worked for Col Sheehan. I did lead writing for BI’s and wrote case summaries for adjudication. Not exactly super spook stuff. After that I went to work down Holabird Ave at Lever Bros for a period of time. Did marry a wonderful Baltimore gal.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — August 17, 2012 @ 5:34 pm

  714. Ben (711)

    When were you at the Bird? Would help to know a timeframe.


    Comment by gdmbrd — August 17, 2012 @ 7:15 pm


    Comment by ben burt — August 18, 2012 @ 7:09 pm

  716. Hi Ben (re 714)

    I was at the Bird for the Interrogators course in late 1968 – sorry, but obviously didn’t know Jimmie Jones? Hopefully someone who frequents this site will respond to you soon.


    Comment by gdmbrd — August 19, 2012 @ 6:32 pm

  717. Re: 715 I was at Holabird from November 22, 1963 until April, 1964. I was part of the squad that was assigned to clean and fire the cannon, being a recent graduate of Basic Training, and still somewhat spit and polish. I wich i had a copy of the film. i might see myself, although i did not remember anyone filming. Many of my classmates went down to DC for the many services. Those were indeed sad days. j. bone 97B class.

    Comment by James H. Bone — August 20, 2012 @ 11:21 am

  718. Re:715 On that day in November 1963, I was on escort detail in Virginia approaching a Nike Missle site. Everything came to a complete standstill for 3 days. The detail was delivering new nuclear warheads to the site. While on that same detail, for the first time I was exposed to segregation. A black member of our detail could not enter a restaurant that we had selected for dinner. The entire detail then picked a different location to eat. What an aweful experience that was.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — August 20, 2012 @ 1:30 pm

  719. re:717and 718. james and dan. appreciate your input. As far as the 8mm film, i was filming from behind a window and was not close to the cannons. Being from fort worth that day and the months following were difficult for me as you can well understand. Never got real overt comments about it happening in texas but could read looks on some faces when told where i was from. i know both of you will always remember that day even moreso than others. ben burt

    Comment by ben burt — August 21, 2012 @ 12:24 am

  720. I suspect the events of that day and following became one of the reasons the training became even more serious and important to each of us moving forwad in our military careers. j. bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — August 22, 2012 @ 11:22 am

  721. Heres another”did any of you know….” Any who might have worked in Saigon know a Edward (Ed) Diamond who was there in 1966/67. He and I were good buds in the 526th INTC Det. on Okinawa. Ben Burt

    Comment by ben burt — August 26, 2012 @ 8:29 pm

  722. re 721

    Sorry Ben -never knew a Ed Diamond.


    Comment by gdmbrd — August 28, 2012 @ 4:46 am

  723. I served on the FTX Commitee from 1966 til DEC 1968. Anyone remember SGTMAJ Leon Carter? Rough exterior, but helped a lot of folks along the way.

    Comment by Don Clifton — September 4, 2012 @ 8:52 pm

  724. re 723

    Don…..I left the Bird in Dec. 1968, but didn’t even know there was a FTX and didn ‘t know SgtMaj Carter.


    Comment by gdmbrd — September 9, 2012 @ 12:21 pm

  725. December 1964, I was not yet 18 when I was sent to “the bird” after basic at Dix. I was surprised and confused about thsi duty station as I was promised by my recruiter that I would become an MP and was more than ready for Ft Gordon GA when orders were handed out. Strangely, my bunk mate who had a serial number one off from mine and who had been attending Columbia University got sent to become a cop and I wound up at Holabird.
    I went to an analyst class but remember spending a lot of time at the barn downstairs and do not remember why. I also remember intrusion classes and getting surveillance training, typing and lots of studying I have some other strange recollections of things happening in class that I will have to save for another time.
    I was supposed to go to Nam but wound up staying and becoming permanent party for a period of time. Lots of 123 club time and home in the Bronx just about every weekend. Went tdy to CBR school at Ft. McClellan where I first saw the real face of segregation up close and personal. I couldn’t wait to get back to the safety and sanity of holabird.
    Got re-assigned to Ingrandes, France and worked Plans, Training and Intelligence and managed classified control for the base. Worked with guys that I had met in school and drank lots and lots of great wine. Sent to Badtolz Germany in the winter for nco academy. Snow was waist deep and sleeping on the floor to keep your bunk tight and your locker picture perfect and spit shining the long black strip in the hallway will always stand out in my mind.
    Closed France and opened up England where I worked for Plans, Training and Security. Hung out in Liverpool and was offered promotion to stay but Nam was to be next stop and I wanted to get back to the world and consider civilian options.
    My experience at Holabird and after made me what I am and it will stay with me forever.

    Comment by Herb Morris — September 9, 2012 @ 10:01 pm

  726. First Don(#723):
    What is FTX? Now Herb(#725): Your post was informative, especially the last sentence. What exactly did Holabird make you? Please additional posts as your time permits.


    Comment by Manny Adler — September 10, 2012 @ 12:21 pm

  727. Manny

    Very few of us get to see what is going on behind the curtain. At 17, I didn’t even know there was a curtain, iron or otherwise. I was a member of a very elite group of people that played a major role in this and other countries all around the world. How could that not affect me. I have since then always seen things as they are and all of that is because of my experiences in intel.

    Comment by Herb Morris — September 10, 2012 @ 4:19 pm

  728. For 724 & 726.FTX was the Field Training Exercise Comittee for the CI Courses to include the surveillance training. Also ran excercises for the Special Forces classes and supported the Area Intelligence trainiing. We built and ran the Vietnamese village at Ft Howard. FTX week was the last week of training for the CI officer and enlisted classes and a student could be dropped from the course on the last day of that week if the cadre felt they could not hack the job. That seldom happened because of the shortage of trained personnel needed because of Vietnam and the related dissident activity going on in CONUS. All in all it was one of the best assignments I had during my career. We had a great mix of folks from all over the couintry from a wide range of education levels and backgrounds.

    Comment by Don Clifton — September 11, 2012 @ 7:58 pm

  729. Herb and Don:

    Thanks. I’m slowly getting it.


    Comment by manny adler — September 12, 2012 @ 3:23 pm

  730. Anybody remember a guy named Don Brown who worked in the admin bldg in 1955-56. Went to Syracuse with him and still trying to locate. I don’t believe he ever left the ‘bird.

    Comment by Ed Delehanty — September 17, 2012 @ 12:20 pm

  731. Reference 690: After the black raft ride to the friendly fisherman and then the later return to the friendly fisherman via the Check-Bavarian barbed wire which I managed to traverse safely, I had several hours to kill before the exercise was over, so a friend (Peter) and I slipped out and followed a road out of Ft. Howard and found a small bar. I believe we may have been the only customers. Spent an hour or so drinking beer and then returned to the exercise. The bartender never even flinched when two guys in black-face and black clothing walked in for a drink. i am sure he had seen it all before, since we and the Special Forces trained there. For all of the secret stuff going on at Ft. Holabird, it was probably the easiest base in the world to slip into and out of. There were holes in every fence.

    Comment by Jack Widmaier — September 17, 2012 @ 7:15 pm

  732. Jack W: The only bar I remember, 1969-70, was just outside Fort Howard, on the right hand side of the road leaving the Fort. Been trying to remember the name of the place but just can’t come up with it. It was sort of a roadhouse kind of place where a lot of the steelworkers hung out. We would often stop there just before of after exercises for a beer or two. Anyone here remember the name of that spot?

    Comment by David Morin — September 19, 2012 @ 8:38 pm

  733. Reference 715. I was also at the Bird when JFK was shot. I remember exactly what I was going when we were told. I was GIing the WAC Detachment dayroom. We were told to prepare to participate in a memorial parade in Washington, D.C., and we waited and waited, but were never called to go.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — September 20, 2012 @ 3:49 pm

  734. RE:733; Linda Matthews. Glad to read of someone else at the “Bird on that tragic day,of Nov.22,1963. As I have stated previously,my agent training class was 64B2A,July through Nov.1963. Seems no one else from that class or time is aware of this site. One other thing; previously I asked about anyone possibly knowing a James(Jim) Anderson who was in my class and also in the same platoon when in basic at Fort Polk. I just recently found out that Jim died in 1993. He had owned a locksmith shop in Tyler,Texas. He had been assigned to Germany after agent school and had become a W.O. sometime during that tour. Ben Burt

    Comment by ben burt — September 21, 2012 @ 6:38 pm

  735. John F. Foltz COLUMBIA, MD John Franklin Foltz, 72, passed away on Thursday, September 27, 2012, at his home in Columbia, Md. Born on December 12, 1939, at Fort Monroe, Va., he lived in Washington, D.C., and Salzburg, Austria, before settling in Palmyra, where he graduated from Palmyra High School in 1957. He attended the Pennsylvania State University, graduating in 1961 with a degree in secondary education. He was commissioned into the Army through the ROTC program and served 23 years in the Military Intelligence branch, retiring at the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. He served two tours in Vietnam in 1967 to 1968 and 1971 to 1972, and was also stationed in Frankfurt, Germany; Schofield Barracks, Hawaii; twice at Fort Holabird, Md.; and numerous times in Washington, D.C., and Arlington, Va. He earned a master’s degree in education from Pepperdine University in 1975. Following his retirement from the Army in 1984, he worked for Pacific Sierra Research Corporation in Rosslyn and Herndon, Va., and then for SAIC in Chantilly, Va. He retired in 2002 and has enjoyed reading, watching college football, traveling, and spending time with his grandchildren. He was preceded in death by his parents, Colonel Christian Ginrich Foltz, U.S. Army (ret.), and Elizabeth Everhardy Foltz. He is survived by his wife of 51 years, Ann Wagner Foltz of Columbia, Md.; his brother, Peter Christian Foltz of Hershey; his children, Colonel Thomas Mark Foltz, U.S.A.F. (ret.), of Falls Church, Va., and Elizabeth Foltz Sanders of Ellicott City, Md.; his grandchildren, James Allen Foltz of Columbia, Mo., Samuel David Foltz of Fitchburg, Mass., and Jillian Elizabeth Sanders of Ellicott City, Md.; a sister-in-law, Patricia Reese Foltz of Hershey; a son-in-law, Christian Todd Sanders of Ellicott City, Md.; and a daughter-in-law, Angela Regina Incorvati-Foltz of Falls Church, Va. A memorial service will be held on Saturday, October 6, 2012, at 3 p.m. at First Presbyterian Church of Howard County, 9325 Presbyterian Circle, Columbia, Md., 21045. Internment will occur at Arlington National Cemetery at a later date. In lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the First Presbyterian Church Memorial Fund.

    Published in Lebanon Daily News on October 2, 2012.


    Comment by frank stella — October 2, 2012 @ 7:00 pm

  736. Since there’s been a lull in entries lately, I thought I would insert this piece of information that Ive been sitting on for a couple of months. My name is Ed Hotchkiss(ref. 187)of Waterbury,Ct.

    The information I am about to give you was an article written in the Waterbury Republican American newspaper in Waterbury, Connecticut, dated May 8th 2012. Here goes:

    Thomas McDonough and Eileen Calli always knew their aunt was a patriot. The siblings always knew she was a proud U.S Army veteran.They always knew she was one of the first women in her field.What they didn’t know was that she was a spy.And a good one. Last month the U.S Army dedicated the 902nd Military Intelligence headquarters at Fort Meade in Maryland to Ann M.McDonough, a Waterbury native. The first women assigned to the counterintelligence corps,McDonough’s interest in the military began as a volunteer in World War II.Her niece, Calli and nephew,McDonough both of Waterbury were present at the dedication April 19th “She would never have allowed this in her lifetime” said McDonough,an attorney.”She was never an attention seeker.Chief Warrant Officer 3 Ann McDonough was the first female enlisted in the counterintelligence corps basic agents course and its polygraph school. She interrogated prisoners in Vietnam and Korea during those conflicts, learning both languages and investigating suspected double agents. Although family members knew McDonough served in Washington and Germany and interrogated prisoners in Vietnam, they say they were not aware of the extent of her activities. “I remember at some point she got some kind of award and someone wrote and article about it” Calli said, likely referencing MvDonough’s admission to the Military Intelligence Hall of Fame in 1988. “And the article said she was like a Mata Hari. I mean she was a spy” Thomas McDonough, who visited his aunt after her retirement to Florida, said there was always something compelling about her.” She would have these friends mostly guys because it was a guys world , who would pop up and they were very well put together. and then they would disappear. I mean. poof. You get a phone call and you’re gone.” Born in Derby in 1915 to Irish immigrants who never owned a home or a car, Ann McDonough was the second oldest of four children who volunteered as an air raid warden in Waterbury during World war II.”I have heard many stories of these times about my determined, strong wiled aunt, banging on the doors of dwellings in her neighborhood that had left their shades up, chastising motorists(who) had not properly dimmed their headlights , often enlisting my father,then still in high school, to asst her in this important duty,” Thomas McDonough said at the dedication. When she was 34 while working for the Internal Revenue service in 1949, McDonough joined the Women’s Army Corps. After completing basic training at Fort Lee, Va., she was assigned to Fort Holabird,Md., where she became the first female admitted to the counter Intelligence Crops Special Agent Course.She served as a special agent between 1952 and 1955 in the 902nd Counter Intelligence Crops Groups in Washington, D.C., whose headquarters now bears her name.” My son said to me, ‘She was basically a human lie detector’,” Calli said.” And it was true” She learned French at the Army Language School in 1956, becoming the first female special agent assigned overseas during the thick of the Cold War. She learned German and for five years completed covert assignments in East and West Germany. When she returned to the United States, she became interested in the relatively new poly graph technology and ultimately became the first female student admitted to the Polygraph school at Fort Gordon,Ga., working as a polygraph examiner until 1966, when she was assigned to Vietnam. There, she set up the polygraph section for the Military Assistance Command and used her training to help the South Vietnamese try to root out suspected double agents.”Its a world in which your friends are your friends at 10 that morning and your enemies at 11,” Thomas McDonough said.McDonough said when he visited his aunt in Florida, a male friend of hers, whom he believes was also in the military intelligence, pointed to a book,” Operation Swordfish,” on her shelf and said, “Your aunts in that.” In the chapter he cited, a female special agent-” the first female agent to graduate from the school”- dresses in a nurse’s uniform, and, with another agent, kidnaps a woman in Germany, injects her with a hypodermic needle to render her unconscious, straps her to a stretcher and takes her away for interrogation in Frankfurt.” Even whats in there is sanitized,” Thomas McDonough said. “This is the sort of stuff the American government never admits to, but this is the sort of stuff people do all the time.” Ann McDonough was ultimately made chief to the polygraph section of the 502ns military Intelligence Detachment in Korea in 1970, when she was 55. She retired from the military in 1974. She died in 1955. Her niece and nephew remember an aunt of strong -will, intelligence and patriotism.”she lived a long life and a full life,” said Thomas McDonough.” She got to do what she never would have had a chance to do if she had stayed home and worked at Scovill.” (Scovill was a copper and brass manufacturing company which was one of 3 in Waterbury at the time of World War II, that converted to making munitions for the war effort,Waterbury was known for decades as the brass and copper center of the world)

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — October 7, 2012 @ 2:00 pm

  737. Reference 736, Ann McDonough died in 1995 not 1955.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — October 7, 2012 @ 4:18 pm

  738. Was at Holabird for 97B40 from October 70 to March 71. Class leader was a Marine gunny sergeant. Had enlisted but did not choose OCS, was told I would never get MI. At Holabird met a 2LT named Dennis Potts from high school. He told me everyone in his OCS class who had MI in top 3 got it. Three of us from class were asked to take language exams, I for German and 2 others for Spanish. I got order for Germany, they for state-side,one for San Antonio. Most got orders for Korean or Vietnamese language school, but they were temporary. Met some guys in Germany who said school was just a holding pattern. Was assigned to 20th MID in Frankfurt, of later Abu Ghareb infamy. Was G2 custodian of documents when Red Brigade bombed parts of IG Farben bulding. Thirty months in Germany in civilian clothes living on the economy wasn’t bad considering. Was assigned a jeep and driver in case of war but was never trained how to read code books or even turn on the radio. Would have been hard to collect counter intelligence. Greg Minton who served with me near the end is involved with the CIC group out of Tampa and is always looking to new participants.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — October 22, 2012 @ 1:18 pm

  739. Correction to previous post. Frankfurt assignment was with the 205th MID. We were attached to Fifth Corps and worked out of the IG Farben Bulding.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — October 22, 2012 @ 1:20 pm

  740. re 738 and 739

    Hi Vince and welcome!

    I was at the Bird almost exactly two years before you for 96C2L29 – like you,a German linguist. I remember the IG Farben building well although my duty station was Berlin. We were part of the 66th MI Group with HQ in Munich at McGraw Kaserne.

    Hope to hear more from you.


    Comment by gdmbrd — October 23, 2012 @ 5:33 pm

  741. Interesting footnote to Bader Meinhof. I was also the G2 member of the AG Inspection team that was headed by a West Point Graduate Major. We received a report from area intelligence that he was seen in the company of the wrong people. While lacking some of the background details, I do recall us performing a search of his BOQ while he was not there. I was handed some coins and the telephone number of his room and told to call the number if he approached.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — October 25, 2012 @ 2:30 pm

  742. And a comment on the change in morale. Part of the AG inspection from a G2 perspective was to assess overall LIDMAC type issues on the posts. When I arrived in 71, the biggest problems were black and white racial tensions. When I left in 73, they had all gone away as the greatest issues were widespread drug issue, especially hash.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — October 25, 2012 @ 2:33 pm

  743. Vince (#742):

    What exactly does LIDMAC stand for? Many of us older folks have no idea what all athe acronyms stand for. Help us out, please.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — October 26, 2012 @ 4:13 pm

  744. Hi Benny, This is one of your old buddies from the 526th, Ted Schmitz. What a surprise to find you on the internet. Your comments sure bring back old memories. I still have a bunch of photos of you, Herman, and Diamond. I bring them out every so often. If we ever contact one another, I wull get your address and send you some copies. Too much to talk about, so I will just say: Hope you find this comment!!

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — October 26, 2012 @ 4:34 pm

  745. Manny (743)

    LIDMAC is an acronym for “Loyalty, Integrity, (I forget the D), Morals and Character. It was used as a criteria for the agents in Intel who conducted background checks on people like us to see if we were worthy of security clearances. These agents asked our relatives, neighbors, friends, acquaintances, etc. about us with regards to our “LIDMAC “.


    Comment by gdmbrd — October 26, 2012 @ 5:26 pm

  746. The “D” in LIDMAC stands for Discretion.

    Comment by Ed Harris — October 26, 2012 @ 7:17 pm


    Comment by ben burt — October 27, 2012 @ 11:14 am

  748. Hey Benny Burt check #744. A Little of my history… I was sent to Fort Holabird in Aug. of 1962. Graduated from Agent Co-ordinator school and was stationed in Chicago 5th Army Hdq. for 15 months doing all the paper work for you Agents out in the field. I was sent to Okinawa in March of 1964. I did most of my work in the supply room, working for Sgt. World. Had a great time ordering you Agents around doing clean-up work around the compoundd. Hope you remember me Benny. Got some pictures you might like to look at with you and Ed, and Gerry and me of course. I would like to mentiion a couple of buddies from Holabird, Henry “the Crow” Koppleman and Dave alverez. You guys are not forgotten! By the why, I loved Okinawa so much that I would have re-upped if I was assured of staying there, but the Army said no. I left in June of 1965 and was sad sad sad!!! Lot more to add, but later.

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — October 27, 2012 @ 11:33 am

  749. Hey Frank Davis #407, Found this site only a few days ago and am amazed at what I am reading. (Ted Schmitz by the way!) Remember You and I lifting Weights and then enjoying a few cold ones in Club Cobean(spelling)? Haven”t seen any more comments from you since #407, hope you get back on this site, would like to rehash a few old memories. Hope to see you on this site. Boy, this brings back nice memories. Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — October 27, 2012 @ 12:19 pm

  750. LIDMAC was used at least as far back as 1966. The final question of a BI interview was: “Do you recommend John Doe for a position of trust and responsibility with the U.S. Government?” Do you remember first question?

    Comment by Ed Harris — October 27, 2012 @ 5:25 pm

  751. I was taught about LIDMAC while going through the coodinator course in September of 1965.

    Comment by bill — October 27, 2012 @ 10:55 pm

  752. We also learned about SAEDA, Subversion and Espionage Directed Against the US Army. I love the Army Acronyms.

    Comment by bill — October 27, 2012 @ 11:00 pm

  753. Thanks for the clarifications.


    Comment by manny adler — October 28, 2012 @ 8:02 am

  754. Robert Lane (1st Lt.) looking for Captain Bill, last name unknown: In 1970 Intell class at Fort Holabird; Green Beret Captain back from NAM to this class: from Butt, Montana. Please call Robert Lane @ 510-465-1933 or 510-508-1944.

    Comment by Robert Lane — October 29, 2012 @ 1:58 pm

  755. LIDMAC was the basis of all the BI I wrote leads for in 1963 thru 1965 at the G-2 Spec Ops at Holabird.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — October 29, 2012 @ 4:26 pm


    Comment by ben burt — October 29, 2012 @ 8:52 pm

  757. re 752

    Ben…..you never met my neighbor then! She wouldn’t have said a good word about me no matter what – and I didn’t (and still don’t) have a rap sheet of any length. :-). She was just a mean old woman.


    Comment by gdmbrd — October 30, 2012 @ 5:03 pm


    Comment by ben burt — October 30, 2012 @ 8:57 pm

  759. Ben – We lived at Vandenberg AFB when the agents came through our base housing neighborhood. My Dad, a CMSGT was worried I had done something wrong either at Ft. Ord during basic, or at the Bird! We had a good laugh about it later.


    Comment by gdmbrd — October 31, 2012 @ 4:55 pm

  760. Entry 752: Once agents got to the field, the question was probably asked in several different ways. However, I was relating how the questions was supposed to be phrased as taught at Holabird.

    Comment by Ed Harris — October 31, 2012 @ 10:07 pm

  761. re 756

    Ed – I was a 96C2l29 so not sure how the LIDMAC questioning was conducted. By the way, what was the first question?


    Comment by gdmbrd — November 1, 2012 @ 7:05 am

  762. Hey Ted Schmitz,

    I remember. I recall you working down there with Askins, World and my main man Yoshihiro Higa. Also, I remember sitting at the Club Cobean bar with you. Do you remember Dave Sexton? He was married and lived off post as I recall so we didn’t see him often. He wrote comments #157 and 158 above. That makes four of us on this site from the 526th.

    I hope all is well with you. Still in Milwaukee?

    It looks like you can’t keep Bennie off this site.


    Comment by Frank Davis — November 3, 2012 @ 9:56 am

  763. Folks,

    Thanks for the discussion on the integrity issue. Around 1969 an agent with the 108th was court marshalled for falsifying investigations. I guess his case load got too big and he just started completing the paper work without doing all the hard work. I think that he was an E-7 and the Colonel took a stripe, fined him and then shipped him off to a new assignment and a new MOS. In my thirty months with MI, it was the only black mark that I remember.
    I was talking to some youth the other day, encouraging them to vote. One asked me what was the big deal about voting. I told him when I got out of the army, after three years, I was still only twenty years old and not old enough to vote. I said that they should appreciate the right they had and do it. I hope I reached some of them. The next day I said good-bye to a grand nephew who is off to the Army. He told me he always votes. I guess we are still doing some things right.


    Comment by David Edmonds — November 3, 2012 @ 11:47 am

  764. Entry 752: Do you know the acronym RATGAS?

    Comment by Ed Harris — November 3, 2012 @ 9:01 pm

  765. Hi Frank, Damn it’s good to hear from the old members of the 526th. I can’t seem to recall Dave Sexton off hand but he’s probably in the back of my mind somewhere. Yes I do remember Higa-san and don’t forget shimabuku-san. Have pictures of them both. Higa-san standing by a 526th van and shimabuku-san standing by the 57 chevy. I sort of managed the club and had an in with them and the girls. Remember Kyoko, Sumeko, and Saeko, all great gals. Lots of fond memories of Okinawa and of the fellows I worked with. I’ve been connecting with Benny Burt for the last couple of weeks and it sure does my old heart good. Came on to this site by accident and really like it. Who would of thought after all these years. Benning says you’re from the New York area, Hope “Sandy” didn’t cause you any trouble. I’m in Cudahy, Milw. subburb(spelling) and have a darn good life with very littly to complain about. Hope to catch up with you in the coming days. A Pal, Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 3, 2012 @ 10:20 pm

  766. Hey Ed Harris, I don’t RATGAS.

    Comment by bill — November 3, 2012 @ 11:17 pm


    Comment by ben burt — November 5, 2012 @ 9:26 pm

  768. Re: entry 766:


    Comment by Ed Harris — November 5, 2012 @ 10:05 pm

  769. That’s why I said I don’t. 😉

    Comment by bill — November 5, 2012 @ 11:51 pm

  770. Hey Bill and Ed, Are you guys talking about a ratgas or a ratsass?

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 6, 2012 @ 5:42 pm

  771. Ted – RATGAS – means……Really And Truly Give A Shi (nola)


    Comment by gdmbrd — November 6, 2012 @ 6:04 pm

  772. Thanks Gary, glad to know. Sounds like I’m an outsider. Lot to learn, three yesrs in the service wasn’t enough. Hope you guys voted today!!!

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 6, 2012 @ 7:32 pm

  773. Ted – no problem! In honesty, I had to Google it myself, as it wasn’t something I learned during Intel days.

    I did vote – unfortunately my candidate didn’t win. Another long 4 years ahead.


    Comment by gdmbrd — November 7, 2012 @ 5:08 am

  774. Gary, Glad I’m not alone, thought I was the only one out of the loop(google: Where would we be without it?) I too voted for Gov. Romney and like you said, “Another long 4 years ahead”. I really don’t expect anything to get done it Washington either way. Sad, very sad!!! Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 7, 2012 @ 1:01 pm

  775. Ted,things will get done but only to erode this great country of ours.Our dear leader couldn’t pass a b.i. to get a job as a security guard at Walmart.
    Ed Hotchkiss(ref. 187)

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 7, 2012 @ 6:16 pm

  776. Ed – well said!


    Comment by gdmbrd — November 7, 2012 @ 6:26 pm


    Comment by ben burt — November 7, 2012 @ 10:53 pm

  778. Hey Ben, Just couldn’t leave it alone, Huh? It’s hard to stay out of a political conversation. What’s good for one is not always good for another. I myself do not like Mr. Obama but in a democracy the majority rules. We’ll just have to see how it goes. Bottom lines is that their has to be compromise on both sides and I do not see that happening too soon.. Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Still a Happy Camper, Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 8, 2012 @ 12:07 am

  779. Ben / Ted….we’re at risk here of making our beloved Holabird graduates site
    a political forum, but hey, we just had an election! Ben – my family has always been split – half Republican / half Democrat. I come from a military family and have always believed that a strong military is just one of the many things that make our country great. I have respected any CIC we have ever had in my lifetime except those whose actions negatively affect our military. Carter was the worst in my opinion and I see too much of his liberalism in Obama. I hope I’m wrong? Clinton moved us from HUMINTS to ELINTS which I also thought was a mistake, but thats “closer to home” for most of us on this site and the reason I personally left the military.

    I’d love to spend two hours doing some 96C with the CIC 🙂

    All the best


    Comment by gdmbrd — November 8, 2012 @ 3:15 am

  780. Hi Frank, Glad to hear from some of the old buddies at the 526th. I spent a good deal of my time in that club(Cobean) and was sorry to have to leave it and Okinawa. I’ve lived in a little subburd of Milw.(Cudahy) all my life and will probably die here. This life has treated me fair so far and can’t complain. I seem to recollect Dave Sexton but just vaguely. Didn’t you use to bunk will Walt Breece? Him and I were students together at the “Bird”. I have a few pictures of some of the guys but not of you;still look the same,Huh? Benny and I e-mail one another and just chat, and yea, He does seem to like this site pretty much. Well, gotta go, catch you later, Ted

    Comment by Ted Schmitz — November 8, 2012 @ 12:20 pm

  781. Personally I would hate to see this site deteriorate into just another opinion blog. The emphasis should remain simply Holabird and related subjects without political polemics.

    Thanks and keep posting.


    Comment by manny adler — November 8, 2012 @ 4:02 pm

  782. I totally agree with Manny. I do not think politics and LIDMAC are a good mix.

    Comment by Ed Harris — November 8, 2012 @ 6:03 pm

  783. Manny;ed’ I too agree with you guys 100%. lets all get back to what the originator meant for this site to be. OKAY? He might kill what has been a great forum. Ben Burt

    Comment by ben burt — November 8, 2012 @ 10:01 pm

  784. I think we are in agreement that communism was an evil entity that we studied at Holabird to some degree and we were in the field of identifying it.It is now in the highest echelon of our government.Look at the background,accomplishments,associations and especially character of the one who was put in charge of this great nation.Take a look at ref.# 736,would this patriot
    believe how far we’ve come to disintegrating? Sooner or later we had to come to some sort of commentary on the direction of our beloved country. I believe that for our country, everyone who contributes to our Holabird site has the best intentions for it.GOD BLESS AMERICA!

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 8, 2012 @ 11:10 pm

  785. 784: With all due respect, this board has been a welcome alternative to the political blathering elsewhere on the net and various other media outlets. Because I disagree with you politically does not make me any less a patriot than you. Peace.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — November 12, 2012 @ 9:29 pm

  786. I can’t even find the web page describing the original 97B4 Mos- now it is 35L I think. My full MOS became 97BLGM3

    Comment by John Washington — November 13, 2012 @ 5:51 pm

  787. I found it quite easy to access to the various MOS categories and hours of instruction of each course at Ft Huachuca and the school. I was at Holabird in 1968 in the 97B40 course and it is very similar to the CI agent course today other than the electronic and other advanced fields that we have seen since 1970.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — November 14, 2012 @ 7:39 pm

  788. My father was an instructor at Ft. Holabird from 1966-68/ Lt. Col. R.R. Taylor Jr. Anyone remember him. He would walk around with a black cigarette holder and smoked Pall Mall’s and he was very short. Would like to hear if anyone remembers him. He just passed away and my sister and I are piecing together his notes about his career.

    Comment by Tracy Taylor — November 15, 2012 @ 10:19 pm

  789. re 788 – Tracy – I went through Ft. Holabird in Fall 1968 and recall a Col. Taylor. He was short and I believe he taught one of the interrogator courses I attended. I don’t remember much else about him though.


    Comment by gdmbrd — November 16, 2012 @ 9:32 pm

  790. I was in the last enlisted class through the Bird in 1971. Class 71B11. I arrived at Holabird in the middle of the night. The SPC5 MP gate guard gave me half of his sandwich since nothing was open. I had trouble believing I was not going to be chewed out. I ended up with the Fort Lewis Field Office, 115th MI, Special Operations Detachment from June 1971-January 1974.

    Comment by Mike Hanlon — November 27, 2012 @ 6:00 pm

  791. re;790; Mike Hanlon; Congrats on being in last class at the Bird. If I remember correctly; yours is first entry from such. Out of curiousity, mind telling why you got out. Also any of you others who put in three or less in the INTC. I have stated my reason(s) more than once in this forum. As I said, just curious. ben burt

    Comment by ben burt — November 27, 2012 @ 8:19 pm

  792. re 791-Ben Burt; I was in from 1968 to 1971. My MOS was 97B40 and I was a hard stripe E-5 from graduation from the Bird until I seperated. One of the reasons I left was because of the low pay. I got married right before I went to Viet Nam and I didn’t want to try and support my wife on Army pay. My duty station before Nam was in a large eastern city’s field office. In Viet Nam, I was working the Phoenix Program and assigned to a MACV district team. That reminded me that I was really in the Army, plainclothes CONUS duty or not, and I didn’t like being in the Army.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — November 28, 2012 @ 4:36 pm

  793. I enlisted under a draft order, from August 70 to August 73. Was at Bird from about October 70 to March 71. Graduated from college in 69, one years work, one year graduate school, and a MSBA from Boston University while stationed in Frankfurt. Once Volar kicked in and the eliminated enlisting for Counter Intelligence, the crop was quality but different. When I went through Holabird, 90 % of my enlisted class had at least three years of college and many had graduated or gone beyond. It was a different time.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — November 30, 2012 @ 5:49 pm

  794. re 791

    Ben – I took basic at Ft. Ord from Jun-Aug 68 then at the Bird until the end of that year. Spent early 69 at Ft. Meade and then stationed at Joint Refugee Operations Center in Berlin as a 96C until Dec 70. I got out then because I got an offer from the government to stay in Berlin, at JROC as a civilian interrogator. Couldn’t pass that up.


    Comment by gdmbrd — November 30, 2012 @ 8:38 pm


    Comment by ben burt — December 3, 2012 @ 9:20 pm

  796. Re: 795

    No re-up bonus was offered to me, but Vietnam was winding down and I expected that the Intell branches would be getting cut as I was told they always did after a war (1972). On the other hand, maybe they just didn’t want me!
    While still with the 109th, it came down from On High that time-in-rank and time-in-service could be waived for E-5 Special Agent’s for promotion to E-6. The one lifer in the Field Office pitched a bitch over this so the Region III CO didn’t recommend any of us E-5s for promotion.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — December 4, 2012 @ 3:43 pm


    Comment by ben burt — December 4, 2012 @ 8:00 pm

  798. Like many others, I happened on this site by accident. My tour at Holabird was somewhat earlier than most of those posting on this site. Holabird was perhaps a bit more GI than later but way less than basic had been. Armed services members were held in better esteem than at the time of Vietnam. Downtown Baltimore was full of soldiers and sailors in uniform wandering around.

    After graduation from Centre College in May 1954 with no job, no money, and no prospects, I was drafted and sent to Fort Knox, Ky for basic training (mid-November, 1954 to late January 1955, cold, snowy, muddy, lots of tanks). Following a short leave after basic, I had my first-ever plane ride via National Airport to Friendship International. There I encountered another guy headed to Holabird so we buddied for the rest of the day.

    We left our duffel bags in lockers, took a bus downtown, ate lunch, went back to the airport, picked up our gear, and took the bus back downtown. That bus driver pointed us to the stop for the bus to Holabird. That bus stopped at the gate on Holabird Avenue and we went in expecting another Fort Knox. The friendly MP told us where to go and how to get there – a set of wooden barracks on the school side of the railroad tracks serving the Army rail maintenance facility. Next surprise – the barracks just had single bunks, not double, and there was a rack to hang clothes on by each one.

    Since we arrived just before a weekend we were among the incoming and unprocessed troops who caught weekend KP. KP provided another surprise – the mess hall crew was WAY more friendly than the one at Knox. The food was better, too. Until the orientation, including interviews, started we had other busy work jobs. The only interview question I remember: “When was the last time you had a date?” Answer: “Last May.” Question: “Don’t you like girls?” Answer: “Sure, but I didn’t have any money.” That seemed to be a good enough answer.

    Rumor had it that we would get Class A passes and, unlikely as it seemed, we did on a Tuesday evening about 5:00. Shortly, a group of us went across the street to the bar/sub place to exercise them.

    The next morning I was policing outside the fence on Holabird Av. While we were at lunch, the rain came. After lunch I was one of the lucky ones put on guard duty for the week. We had no other duties and could sleep in the daytime – this too was a huge change from basic. I remember four guard posts: 1. The front gate on Dundalk (closed at night), where the guard walked from the entrance along the fence to the base of the railroad trestle, which was at least 20 feet in the air; 2. Beside Colgate Creek, aka Colda** Creek; 3. The railroad entrance, ground level on a viaduct over Brunning Highway; and 4. The Main School Building in the middle of the fort where the guard walked around the building – this post was a 24-hour post on weekends. We were to carry carbines on duty.

    Guard duty adventures:
    Early the first night, the rain changed to snow and started to pile up. I had the main gate post and dutifully walked to the trestle and back since the snow was only beginning to stick. When I returned at 4:00 am, there was plenty of snow and no tracks to the trestle appeared. I didn’t add any.
    Before my night at the Brunning Highway post, the Guard commander had found that some of the troops had not qualified with the carbine so we switched to M-1s for the rest of the guard duty stint. (I was one of the offenders because I had been sick as a dog at the carbine range and had been confined to the target shack.) Firing either weapon would have been disastrous for anyone living across the street.
    On Saturday, I had the school building post. It had become cold after the snow so some of the guys had been walking around close to the building to get a bit warm instead of on the sidewalk/street away from the building. We were instructed to stop doing that. I slacked off a bit but didn’t completely quit until my last shift at midday Sunday.
    The guard duty wasn’t as bad as at Ft. Knox, but still an undesirable chore.

    Immediately after the guard duty, we were assigned to class C-74 (clerk-typist with top secret clearance). Two guys from my basic training company were in my class. About half way through, one of them had flunked out – I don’t know what happened to him afterwards. The typing instructor was a fairly gruff civilian man from Bowling Green, Ky.

    Being in class was somewhat like college, except for the uniforms, marching to class, Saturday parades (similar to Centre’s Saturday morning classes back then), less “homework”, and the occasional KP day. The whole class had KP the same day (weekdays) so everybody was at the same point in the class. Of the four times our class was on KP, I was in the enlisted mess hall once, the officers’ mess hall three times. The work day was a bit longer at the officers’ but they had somewhat better food and service. We got the better food, too. One of the times there, the cooks gave us a big leftover sheet cake to take back to the barracks for the rest of the class. This was a whole different world from basic!

    One day the class went to Fort Meade to qualify with the submachine gun (Grease-gun). The day was pleasant, the range was beside an inlet on Chesapeake Bay, lunch was a picnic kind of meal on the shore. Yet again, very unlike Knox.

    The last week of class was simulating the original setup of an office. We were given a form to order all the necessary supplies to run the office with. The prime instruction was “Remember to include on your first order more order forms.” There was a class dinner/celebration at the end of the week.

    Weekends were used for visiting the sights in Baltimore – historic like Fort McHenry, the shot tower, and not so historic like “The Block” on East Baltimore Street. Some of us went to Washington several times to see the sights there. One Sunday we walked across the river to see the Marine Iwo Jima Memorial. Just before we got there we were caught in a fierce rain storm with no shelter to be had. We walked a mile or so to catch a streetcar back to downtown D.C. The sun came out so we had dried out when we got to the stop.

    Before leaving Holabird, we were told to pick three Army areas in the U.S. and three countries overseas for our assignments. If they fit with the Army’s needs, we would get one of our choices. I chose areas in the eastern part of the U.S. and three countries in Western Europe. When our orders came, mine said Sixth Army, Presidio of San Francisco, which was a cushy assignment. I was one of five guys in our class going there – the others were Hugh Gallagher, Carl Halden, Dick Langley and John Snakard. Immediately after checking in at the 115th (“on the hill”), all five of us were assigned to G2, Sixth Army. The other four went to the investigations branch and I went to clearances. We only visited the 115th four or five times during our year and a half there. For the next 18 months we shuffled paperwork at G2. Off duty time was a ball!

    Dick married while in SF. I lost track of Carl and Hugh slowly over the years. John and I still exchange Christmas cards.

    My apologies for being so wordy.

    Comment by Bob Fox — December 9, 2012 @ 9:19 pm

  799. I continue to really enjoy the tales posted here. I was assigned as an instructor on the Field Training Exercise Committee from 12/66 until 12/68. I was then assigned to the 635th MI DET, 198th INF BDE, Americal Division in Chu Lai, Vietnam. It was a very interesting assignment running informants. Probably the assignment that kept me in MI for the next 28 years. I was wondering if there is anyone watching this site who was also assigned to the Americal DIV during that time. Everyone have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

    Comment by Don Clifton — December 10, 2012 @ 11:53 am

  800. Bob Fox(we overlapped at Knox and Holabird)#798:

    Your recollections of all the guard posts are so clear. Since I spent my entire time at Holabird
    and cannot recall all of what you do I am now worried about the onset of vascular dementia. If my posts start getting bizaar please let me know so I can have my neuro-psych evaluation before making a total ass of myself.

    Thanks all,


    Comment by manny adler — December 10, 2012 @ 12:23 pm

  801. I was in Group B-248, January through April 1954. I originally was assigned to the Central Records Facility, but because I was a 1301, basic course graduate, I was transferred to the 116th in WashDC. They had a 5000 case backlog there. Originally, I was assigned to the House Un-American Activities Committee on the Hill with Cruz Reynoso (later California state supreme court justice) — we were liaison officers, actually file searchers — but later went to the 90-man investigation department. I was nabbed by the major in charge as his administrative assistant, but later begged off by going to Major Jesse Baker’s crypto-investigations team. Spent a lot of time in the Pentagon and Arlington Hall. I picked my replacement, Dick Murphy (Harvard and Cambridge) who later became ambassador to the Philippines, Syria, Saudi Arabia and assistant secretary of state for the mideast. We still see each other occasionally in NYC where he lives. Giles Clark and George Coggin of NC were in my group as were Steve Pearsall and Dick Caulfield (later dean of the Drake U. law school), and Jim Vick, starting tackle at Stanford.We keep in touch. I got an early discharge and went to Germany to work in the 66th in the refugee program in FRankfurt with lots of tdy in the Cologne-MUenster area. I was offered a job at Oberursel and nearly took it. I got pretty good in German. Went to a special language program at Offenbach, the one-time Gestapo hqs for the area. LTC Butler and Captain Ansaume were my bosses and later Captain Kennedy. My wife and I loved Germany, but business opportunities brought me home to Oceanside, CA.

    Comment by Jim Downs — December 10, 2012 @ 1:52 pm

  802. JIM (#801).

    I wonder if the Captain Ansaume is the same Headquarters executive company commander mentioned in post #75 (at Holabird).

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — December 11, 2012 @ 4:12 pm

  803. I would imagine so. He left Germany and region III of the 66th CIC in early 1956 or late 1955 for reassignment.

    Comment by Jim Downs — December 11, 2012 @ 4:28 pm

  804. I was at Ft. H. from Nov 1952 to June ’54. After graduating, I was assigned as an instructor at the school. Great duty. The No. 1 recreation on our “campus” was playing bridge. We put on Army problems in downtown Baltimore, often at night. You could walk down alleys in the dark–perfectly safe. Don’t try it now. Capt. Clifford was our officer in charge. Great guy. Some of my fellow instructors were John Beach, Leo Himmelsbach, “Bugs” Baer, John Murray and Dave Burton. Many post-Holabird friendships followed and still exist. My wife worked at Hamburger’s men’s store and we rented an apartment on Holabird Avenue from the Kraska family. The summer weather was miserably humid. Not to our liking as Californians. We were introduced to pizza for the first time there. And oyster stew–yuk. The soft-shell crab was fabulous. The side trips to Wash DC for the McCarthy Hearings, big league baseball and football–all a real treat. Wouldn’t have missed the Maryland adventure for the world. — Daniel Hruby

    Comment by Daniel Hruby — December 11, 2012 @ 7:25 pm

  805. My memories come back as I read these posts. In basic at Fort Ord, 16 of us were called out of a night formation to go down to C&A. A guy our age in civilian clothes there did’t tell us much. But, he said we were being considered for a special program. We had to take a test then and there first. It was a spelling test. We all passed, told we would have to write a lot of reports and the army didn’t have time to teach us to spell. I arrived at Holabird in the first week of January. It was snowing. I decided to shave before I hit the sack. Another guy was shaving and he noticed my duffel bag with my US serial number on it. He said he noticed that and asked if I were going to clerk’s school. I said I understand it would be decided by an interview whether or not I would. That was the rumor.
    He replied, “Well, if they pick you, you will have to enlist. There are a bunch of us here from Fort Dix, and we are all RA.” I replied that all 16 of us from Ord were US. I saw him a couple of days later, and told him that US personnel were being taken into the agent’s program. He erupted into a stream of profanity and admitted that he had heard that also. What had happened is this: a CIC major had toured all the Ivy league schools in New England and sold them a bill of goods on this super secret CIC program that would require candidates to enlist. They upped in droves. In the other areas, first through fifth, they simply filled their quotas with US guys. In my group, we had about eight First army guys, all RA. Let me tell you, they were writing their congressmen on almost a daily basis. To no avail, of course. Whenever any of us US folks didn’t know what was happening, we always asked one of the others, “Hey, what’s going on here? You’re regular army, you must know. We’re just citizen soldiers doing our 24 months.” Other jokes about “you having found a home in the army” kept us all laughing. The US guys.
    When we put in our requests for assignments, I asked for Holabird as a friend of mine was an instructor in the Aberdeen crew that ran the combat village and the surveillance programs. I wanted to get married, and a friend of his in G-1 said our whole class was going to FECOM (Japan and Korea). Everyone was asking for Austria or Chicago or some other choice spot. I stayed at the Bird and they did go to Asia. I never got my instructor’s slot, but was transferred to the 116th and civilian status. I wrote to these guys in Korea, and they were making the best of it. About our groups:
    The other funny thing was that each group had about five sergeants in it, mostly officers who had to return to their permanent rank,and got their choice of schools. But, a few groups had a gunny sergeant from the Marines. These guys could not tolerate our country club demeanor and marched their classes tightly to class every morning with medlodious “Sound Off” cadence commands. We would always tell them how sharp they looked and how lucky they were to have a real sergeant in command.Again, more profanity.

    Comment by Jim Downs — December 11, 2012 @ 8:01 pm

  806. I went to the ‘bird twice – first time was for the 96B course in 1966 – had pretty much the same experience as many of the other commenters – checked in on a Friday and then was told “See you Monday.” Could not hardly believe it! Went to Vietnam after that and worked at CICV with the 519th MI Bn. Ended up at Holabird again in ’68 for the 97B course – did a short stint on the Field Training Exercise (FTX) staff and then they sent me to Italy – that was great! Anyway, Merry Christmas everybody!

    Comment by Alex Drinkwater — December 16, 2012 @ 2:48 pm

  807. I remember making a couple of extra bucks pushing cars up the hill east of Holabird and Dundalk Ave during the “Snow Emergency” And there was the “Snow Removal Team A” details…. Oh what great fun at the Bird. This was during the winter of 63-64.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — December 19, 2012 @ 3:11 pm

  808. I remember the snow storm as well. i was part of the Snow Removal Team A, and having to uncover the cars from under the snow so the permanate parties, professors, etc could get out. that was cold, but not nearly as cold as Korea. what a great place to go to serve our country, get a good education, and have a lot of fun. j. bone

    Comment by JAMES H. BONE — December 19, 2012 @ 5:35 pm

  809. This is Christmas 2012. I was at Holibird in 1967, a bad snow storm came in right after the 25th and grid locked the area. Thank god for the Holibird Inn, I wworked there and got all the food and class VI I needed. Christmas 1972 I was in Siagon,at McCarrack Compound, working with the Siagon Field Office. We even were part of the security detail for Bob Hope’s Christmas Special. Fellow intel guys being away from home during the holidays is hard, but you made indelable friends during these periods…TC

    Comment by Tommy Nettles — December 24, 2012 @ 12:52 am

  810. Happy New Year fellow Holabird grads! 44 years since I was there – a place that helped change my life and it’s course.

    All the best for 2013!


    Comment by gdmbrd — December 29, 2012 @ 5:37 am

  811. Happy New Year to all who passed through the gates at Holabird. I agree with post 810, it helped change my life’s course beginning in 68.

    Comment by Vince Cavallo — January 1, 2013 @ 11:53 am

  812. Gee folks here it is almost nine years after my first post (#10) on 2/12/2004) and still waiting to hear from someone I served with at Holabird. This is real optimism. I hear the “sand running down”. Keep posting and a healthy and happy 2014.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — January 1, 2013 @ 6:26 pm

  813. Sorry that’s a “one” and not a ten in 812.


    Comment by manny adler — January 1, 2013 @ 6:27 pm

  814. My best wishes for a happy, healthy and prosperous new year to those who stop by this place.

    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — January 1, 2013 @ 8:32 pm

  815. #814 Thanks Jim and all who visit this site a secure new year for our Country.Thanks for the good memories from our fellow contributors.

    Ed Hotchkiss
    Post #187

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — January 2, 2013 @ 7:07 pm

  816. Jim #814

    I just realized (although I’ve read your original post a few times) that you too are a 96C2L29. I haven’t seen any others here. Did you get an assignment in Germany? I was in Berlin, 66th MI Group, attached to 18th MI Bn. at JROC.

    Would love to know if you were in BRD then.

    best regards,


    Yes, I was with the 511th MI Company (which was in Fuerth), stationed at the Passau BRO from April 69 through December 70. Beautiful city, that.

    Best regards,
    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by gdmbrd — January 3, 2013 @ 4:52 pm

  817. Happy New Year to everyone!

    To Jim a big thank you for starting and tending “Parkway Rest Stop”. I’ve spent numerous hours reading and re-reading the comments from everybody. It has been time well-spent.

    Manny – Good luck in finding someone who served at Holabird with you. Just curious – Did you hear about the training accident on the infiltration course at Fort Knox? I was in that company a few yards from the guy who was injured.

    Comment by Bob Fox — January 3, 2013 @ 9:26 pm

  818. Jim #816

    Passau is indeed beautiful with great access to Austria, etc. I bet a lot of refugees coming through your outfit ended up coming to see us at JROC also.

    We were in Germany at the same time. Did you guys get time off in December 69 to see the Bob Hope USO Show in Berlin?


    Comment by gdmbrd — January 5, 2013 @ 7:38 am

  819. I was at Holibird from Nov 66 to Apr 1967. Was stationed in Wash DC until Sept 1967. Vietnam with the 525th 3rd Ba. from Nov 67 to Jan 1969 then 1st inf from jan 1969 to july 1969. Served with Gary Kocheler who waqs killed in the twin towers. Alan Graffam was the CO with the 1st division.
    This site brings back some memories.

    Comment by James Weeks — January 5, 2013 @ 3:47 pm

  820. Bob(#817),

    Does not ring a bell. Was this in early 1955? I vaugely remember something about someone standing up during the infltration course but type of story has many lives and may or may not have occured.


    Comment by manny adler — January 6, 2013 @ 2:38 pm

  821. A question for CIC Vietnam vets: Were they taking draftees or did CIC candidates have to enlist? What percentage were the young enlisted college graduates?
    In the 1952-56 era, there was a large number of people with advanced college degrees and Ivy League backgrounds. A large number of Mormons who had language skills also. Was it the same in ’65 to ’75?

    Comment by Jim Downs — January 7, 2013 @ 3:27 pm

  822. I had to volunteer for M.I. At the time they wanted college grads but dropped that requirement as they needed more bodies. You did have to take a written exam and appear before a board of CI people for an interview. It seemed to me most of the people I served with were college grads.

    Comment by James Weeks — January 7, 2013 @ 8:11 pm

  823. I did not know of any agents that were drafted. This was for the Vietnam period.

    Comment by James Weeks — January 7, 2013 @ 8:13 pm

  824. Was in Army from August 70 to August 73. Enlisted under duress. At the Bird from about October 70 to March 71. Average education level for enlistees about 15 years, although many of us, such as I, had at least one or more years of graduate or law school. All had some college. My recruiter said OCS would never get MI. Met a high school buddy at the Bird who was freash out of OCS and said everyone who picked MI in top three got it. Damn recruiter. Can’t complain, 30 months in civilian clothes in Frankfurt.

    Comment by Vince Pivnicny — January 8, 2013 @ 9:08 pm

  825. #821 Jim

    I was drafted in 68, took a German language test during Basic at Ft. Ord and was assigned to Holabird as a 96C2L29 ( interrogator ) immediately after basic. I did sign a form called “Intent to Re-enlist” in order to get the job, and had 2years of college already.


    Comment by gdmbrd — January 10, 2013 @ 4:48 pm

  826. #825 Gary

    I graduated from college in June, 1968 and was drafted in December that same year. I also took the German test in Basic Training, in my case at Fort Dix. I’ve written about the surreal testing experience here:

    I was sent directly to Fort Holabird (see above) after basic training and was told that I was a 96C2L29. I had heard that all the interrogators in the classes before mine went to Vietnam, so I figured that’s where I was headed. As it happened, all the German (and Slavic language)speakers were sent to Germany, the Korean speakers were sent to Korea, and we had one Italian speaker, and he was sent to Italy. The guys who spoke French and the guys who were not foreign language qualified, I believe, all went to Fort Hood. From there, I suspect they wound up in Vietnam, but I don’t know that for sure.

    I did not have to sign an “Intent to Re-enlist,” but I was interviewed by several people at Fort Holabird before the classes commenced.

    Yes, we were in Germany at the same time, but I did not get to Berlin. Traveling there was a major hassle.

    Parkway Rest Stop

    Comment by Jim — January 10, 2013 @ 6:53 pm

  827. An interesting note. I was fluent in German so I stayed at Holabird. No one asked me so I didn’t tell (the beginning of Clinton’s “don’t ask, don’t tell”)? I guess it made more sense to train and send you guys. Lucky for you I guess The Army works in wonderous ways.


    Comment by manny adler — January 11, 2013 @ 3:58 pm


    Comment by ben burt — January 11, 2013 @ 7:57 pm

  829. From September 1965 to May 1968 I processed all incoming students to Ft Holabird. The Agents classes and the MI Coordinators classes were filled by enlistees. The Image Interpretation classes and Interrogators classes were filled with draftees and a few Enlistees.

    Comment by bill — January 11, 2013 @ 11:22 pm

  830. I ponder how come you labeled this particular blog, “Parkway Rest Stop » Fort
    Holabird or the Twilight Zone?”. In any event
    . I appreciated the post!Regards-Cary

    Comment by http://tinyurl.com/elecplatt38218 — January 12, 2013 @ 2:26 am

  831. #829 Bill,

    I was probably in-processed by your replacement then? I arrived in August of 1968.


    Comment by gdmbrd — January 12, 2013 @ 6:54 am

  832. #826 Jim,

    That is exactly what happened in our class also. The foreign language qualified guys were assigned to countries where they could use their language. We had 4 guys in our class not language qualified and they went to Hood for a crash course in Vietnamese.

    Too bad you didn’t get to Berlin, but you are right – it was a hassle getting in and out. Movement orders were required and you could only get there by flying Pan Am in, or taking the Duty Train. Great city though!

    Did you by chance know an interrogator with Magyar language skills by the name of Ross Hilton?


    Comment by gdmbrd — January 12, 2013 @ 7:10 am

  833. #830

    Yes Gary, you would have been processed by my replacement (his name escapes me). We worked for the S-2 and would have checked for your security clearance. If you didn’t have one, we would begin an investigation. A full “Background Investigation” for a TS clearance (for the Agent or Coordinator course) or a ” National Agency Check” for a SECRET clearance for all the other courses. You would be held out of class until your security clearance was issued or validated.

    Comment by bill — January 12, 2013 @ 11:46 pm

  834. #829 Bill, from Sept 63 to Apr 66 I was a lead writer in the G-2 office at USAINTC in the building attached to the East end of the CRF.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 13, 2013 @ 8:17 pm

  835. Manny (#820)

    Yes, the mishap was in early to middle January, 1955. They told us before hand “Don’t stand up.” During the night go at the course, one of the machine guns was not operating as it should have. The guy was hit by a ricocheting round. He was lying on his back in the dark, looking up into the rain, using his M-1 to hold the barbed wire off him, just as I was. When they stopped firing and turned on the lights, one of the first things we heard was “He stood up”. It soon became obvious that he had not.

    Comment by Bob Fox — January 13, 2013 @ 9:33 pm

  836. Dan, Up until September 1965, USAINTC issued the security clearances for the students and permanent party at the school. In September, they made a separate group, USAINTS and they set up the S-2 for the school. They sent a civilian woman from USAINTC to help us. After that, we issued and validated all the clearances for the students and the permanent party. Our office was in Troop Command on the first floor of the student barracks building. S-1, Personnel was also on the first floor.

    Did you live in the barracks (bays)? Most of USAINTS people lived on the third floor.

    Comment by bill — January 13, 2013 @ 10:21 pm

  837. Here is the MI History File. The street signs are on page 10.

    Comment by bill — January 13, 2013 @ 10:57 pm

  838. Bill, I lived in the HQ Company barracks across the street from the CRF. I lived on the second floor on the east wing until I made E-5, then I lived in a 2 man room on the ground floor on the west side. HQ Barracks was on the other side of the tracks from the Student Barracks. I believe my travel orders from USAINTS to USAINTC gave me 15 minutes to make the transition.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 14, 2013 @ 10:15 am

  839. Dan, we lived in the same building at the same time. I was on the third floor until I made E-5 also then moved into a 2 man room on the third floor. I used to go into CRF (later IRR) every day to read the dossiers and to check on open investigations of new students or personnel. I had a great job, very interesting.

    Comment by bill — January 14, 2013 @ 11:50 pm

  840. Bill, do you remember who the 1st shirt was that was always trying to have 100% turnout for company rollcall? He never did understand that some were attached and not assigned or not assigned but attached. And some us always had “need to know” duties on;y when he tried to have a mandatory rollcall. 🙂

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 15, 2013 @ 2:42 pm

  841. Dan, I remember him trying but they couldn’t even get us (USAINTS) to clean the barracks. For a while, our CO told them to stop giving us KP, we were too busy getting the students through the school. I was on the Honor Guard for graduating classes so I got out of extra duty anyway.

    The only time we had formation was on Saturday mornings after MLK was assassinated and the Post started a “riot control group”. We marched around and they threw tear-gas at us so we would be ready for the real thing. Half of the people falling out had civilian clothes on. It didn’t last too long.

    What a great place to serve 3 years. It was more like a college campus.

    Comment by bill — January 15, 2013 @ 3:01 pm

  842. Bill, the “college campus” reference made me crack-up. That weas the statement the two CI agants used in recruiting me. I grew up in Spokane, WA and had never been further east than Missoula, MT. I went to school at Gonzaga U in Spokane. They claimed Ft Holabird was just like a college campus; and, in fact, there was a stream running through the post. Now my image of a stream and the sight of Colgate Creek never did mess. And then there was the wonderful smells of Holabird; Federal Yeast to the south and Seagram’s to the east.

    But having said that, it was still was a ton of fun!

    Oh I remember the how they tried to get us to form the ERF (Emergency Relief Force).

    I also recall that once and only once they sent us to Ft Meade to qualify with the M-1. Not a shot was fired, but we did dull some pencil points as we marked our targets. Every “soldier” in the group qualified “expert”. ‘Twas amazing. And … our rifles were spotless before we even got near the cleaning equipment.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 15, 2013 @ 5:33 pm

  843. Bill / Dan,

    Speaking of the aromaof Holabird, wasn’t there also a GM plant nearby? Marching across the Colgate creek bridge, I always worried that if a cigarette fell in, the creek would burst into flames!


    Comment by gdmbrd — January 16, 2013 @ 6:36 pm

  844. Yes Gary, you are correct. Fisher Body, Chevrolet Truck was across Broening Highway to the west of the Bird. Speaking of marching across the Colgate … did our class ever get the bridge moving up and down in rhythm just to bug the in-charge types?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 16, 2013 @ 7:08 pm

  845. I toured the GM assembly plant 3 or 4 times and after every tour, I swore I would never buy a new car. It looked like they were making toys.

    Comment by bill — January 17, 2013 @ 12:49 am

  846. Dan –

    Didn’t everyone do that just to bug the higher-ups? When we were walking to or from classes, that was the only time everyone was really in cadence!


    Comment by gdmbrd — January 17, 2013 @ 8:05 am

  847. I never toured the GM Plant … but I did go to work for Lever Bros that was just down the road from Holabird. Hmmm … wonder if I was trying not to fly to far from the nest???


    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 17, 2013 @ 10:42 am

  848. Reading about background checks etc. in the above posts I was pulled out of my basic training course(Fort Bragg) in the summer of 1967 to be interviewed by CI agents who were doing my background check for a TS clearance before me going to Holabird for training. Seems I had listed an avowed active communist as one of my five personal references. She was a neighbor Professor of History at the University of Pennsylvania who I barely new but thought would look good as a reference. The CI agent kicked the Basic Training Captain (a Basic trainee’s God) out of his office for the interview with me which was impressive at the time. After questioning he realized I was to young and naive and uninformed and obviously to stupid to realize the impact of listing a commie but sent the report on to Holabird I suppose. I have always wondered who made the decision to grant me the TS clearance after that fiasco. Anyone one on the list above??


    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — January 18, 2013 @ 2:37 pm

  849. My dad (MSGT John R. (Bob) Dietzel, he pronounced it Ditzel) was stationed there long enough for mom to have 3 of us 6 kids. 1954-1960? I was born at Ft.Meade so I tell people I was a Top Secret baby. When someone gets it I know they at least pay attention to the world.

    I was born in 1956 and we shipped out to Augsburg, Germany in time for me to start kindergarten. My older siblings went to elementary and junior high while we were there. Cub and Boy Scouts, Little League and Junior Marksman.

    Mom is Virginia (87 and still truckin’) she served on committees for school selection and NCO-Officer wives liaising. She and dad sang in the church choir. Kids, John, Chuck, Janet, Ruth, me (Dick) and the baby Maryjean.

    I believe dad was with the Adjutant General’s office at least he was in Germany with the 24th Inf.

    I know John and Chuck (now Charles) would be interested in anyone who knew them and mom would get a kick out of any info.

    Comment by Richard Dietzel — January 18, 2013 @ 3:20 pm

  850. Daryl, in my time in the G-2’s office when we were the control office for BIs for the school if we turned any negative information from a source we 2 additional developed interviews to either refute or substantiate the information before any adjudication took place. That meant the agent would have to develop 2 more interviews from sources he obtained. So one bad source did not preclude a clearance. Bil in #836 may have more information because his office was handling the BI for student in the time frame you mentioned.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 18, 2013 @ 8:12 pm

  851. Daryl, Dan is right, my boss, the S-2 Officer for USAINTS would have issued your TS clearance after reviewing your dossier in the summer of 1967.

    Comment by bill — January 18, 2013 @ 11:08 pm

  852. Thanks Dan and Bill and whoever the S-2 officer was. I am still glad to have had the Holabird experience.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — January 21, 2013 @ 4:02 pm

  853. OK guys and gals, it has been quiet here for 6 days. Time to wake up the troops. Does anyone remember “C Ration” day at HQ Company mess or Sunday morning breakfast at the same mess? I know that this isn’t exactly spook stuff but it fits with Holabird’s reputation as being in the Army’s twilight zone.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 27, 2013 @ 12:16 pm

  854. Dan,

    I don’t remember C Ration Day or Sunday breakfast. I met a local girl from Sparrows Point and after partying at either Judges or Hollywood Park on Saturdays , I’d get Sunday breakfast at her place….:-) Since we are on “non-spook” stuff today, were you by chance at the Bird when CSNY played at the Baltimore Convention Center? Must have been about Nov. 68


    Comment by gdmbrd — January 27, 2013 @ 8:14 pm

  855. I don’t recall any of this C Ration Day or Sunday breakfast. But I do recall Easter Sunday 1968. A General or some title like that had to be on the base that weekend and we had a great meal on Easter. I recall it because I never thought the military ever had a meal so nice. I was a student in early to mid 1968 when most agents got sent to Fort Sam Houston for the 52 week Vietnamese language classes. I got sent out to train for the 68 games with the all=army track team and later spent my remaining time with the 115th MI Grp in Los Angeles. BI, Bring Up and SIS investigations, what a joy. But I’ll never forget that Easter at Holibird.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — January 28, 2013 @ 9:03 pm

  856. Dan,
    I remember the “C” ration days. Salmon and Peas was the worst for me. Sundays were the lazy days for the cooks. We had a simple a lunch and just sandwiches for dinner. Overall, the mess hall had very good food. The cooks were so good, we used to hire them for the company cookouts in the summer.

    I didn’t get to see CSNY but in 1967 I won tickets to see Woody Allen (a young stand-up at that time) Tony Bennett (The main reason I went) and a very drunk Judy Garland (she was dead not too long after) at the Civic Center.

    My best friend was from Buffalo and I was from Boston so when the Buffalo Sabre’s were playing the Baltimore Clippers (AHL) we would go to the games. When the Celtics were playing the Baltimore Bullets, we would go to the games. When the Red Sox were playing the Orioles, we would go to the games. Back then, you could buy tickets on game day and they were reasonably priced.

    I got to see my first NFL game at Memorial Stadium. We only had the AFL in Boston at the time.

    As I said in an earlier post, what a great way to spend my three years in the army.
    Sorry this post was so long.

    Comment by bill — January 30, 2013 @ 12:10 am

  857. Well I was at the Bird from June 1963 to April 1966. My memory of C Ration day in the summer at the HQ USAINTC mess was grilled to order steaks and served through the windows of the mess hall. Every Sunday breakfast was a made to order omelet. If you ordered on with everything it filled the plate. The rumor was that the mess Sgt sold the C Rations to Baltimore boy scouts and bought the steaks from the commissary. I remember them as being very tasty. But then that memory is almost 50 years old.

    My wife remembers going to the James Bond movie on base with me. The admission was 25 cents. And she got a good laugh out of the running commentary from the audience of spooks in training!

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — January 31, 2013 @ 12:04 am

  858. Re:857;Dan Ritchie. You are the first person that has mentioned being at the Bird when I was there for agent school From June to Dec. 1963. Class 64B2a. You must remember this class due to two-thirds of it failed mainly due to not completeing a required security survey of the whole fort area. Fortunately I was in the right third! We had a very good typist who made a excellent detailed report to turn in. Of course, all of us still had to pass the other tests also. Wish I had a list of all the other guys on our team but alas, do not.Another thing I remember is the one time I pulled KP duty. My job: making a gigantic apple cobbler pie. Like using about ten laarge cans of apples, eight or more boxes of brown sugar; lots of flour,cinnamon,etc.Other than having to get up early it was almost fun! Also around Thanksgiving there was a case of someone ccoming down with spinal-miningitus & our bay area was quarantined for a couple of days. Our meals were brought to us at our bunks! Guess you probably dont recall any of this. I did see “DR.NO” at the post theater also. Ben Burt

    Comment by ben burt — February 1, 2013 @ 9:18 pm

  859. Dan / Bert

    Was the theater actually on post? I have always been a movie-goer, but don ‘t recall going to one at the Bird?

    Thanks – Gary

    Comment by gdmbrd — February 2, 2013 @ 6:44 am

  860. Dan / Ben

    Sorry, meant Dan and Ben above.


    Comment by gdmbrd — February 2, 2013 @ 6:45 am

  861. Gary,
    The theater was in the block east of the parade field. The chapel, library and theater were all on that block.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 2, 2013 @ 11:51 am

  862. Ben,

    The story of the “failed security survey” does ring some bells. I was off to Germany from October thru November in ’63. That was my overseas tour. The rest of my enlistment I spent at the “Battle of Colgate Creek”


    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 2, 2013 @ 11:54 am

  863. Gary, I posted a home movie of the post on FaceBook and it opens with a view of the post theatore.
    I think this will work. The first 18 sec. are blank then it starts.

    Comment by bill — February 2, 2013 @ 7:37 pm

  864. Bill,

    Wow – that brings back some memories! Thanks so much for posting that!
    Colgate Creek even looked nasty in the film.

    What a great place to learn our trades back then and an experience I will never forget. I was a 96C and I wonder if anyone remembers our “final test” at the end of the interrogators course?

    Thanks again Bill,


    Comment by gdmbrd — February 2, 2013 @ 8:22 pm

  865. I wish I took more video but I only had a crappy 8mm windup camera.

    I’m pretty sure that the missing 18 seconds in the beginning was a clip I filmed of the sign on the fence around CRF. The sign warned not to take any pictures of the building. I only filmed the sign but I guess they thought that would qualify. I wonder if it ended up in my dossier 🙂

    Comment by bill — February 2, 2013 @ 11:57 pm

  866. Bill,

    I wonder if our dossiers still exist?


    Comment by gdmbrd — February 5, 2013 @ 5:22 pm

  867. Bill (#866),

    I tried to retrieve my security clearance dossier without luck. They told me they were destroyed after so many years (I forgot how many).


    Comment by manny adler — February 5, 2013 @ 5:48 pm

  868. I was told the same. Too long ago. I would have loved to see what was in there. (or maybe not)!

    Comment by bill — February 6, 2013 @ 12:12 am

  869. After graduating from the U of H, then basic at Ft Dix, I was assigned to Ft Holabird’s CDC – Combat Development Command, as an 81E20 (Illustrator) from November 1965 to April 1966 before reassignment to (UTIC), the Tech Intel Center, USAREUR Heidelberg until 1968. I had an interesting duty at Ft. Holabird, creating secret and top secret training manuals for the “Spook School”, and for reports on new weaponry, tactics, software, and materiel which were prepared and presented to the Pentagon by the officers assigned to CDC. I worked with full birds, light birds, captains and a few lieutenants with whom we fraternized. They were very informal and not condescending in any way. Had a good time in Baltimore associating with my former college classmates who were attending graduate school at the Maryland Art Institute. A few of the young lieutenants my age were always happy when I invited them to the Institutes’s parties, which were usually pretty wild, and about as crazy as your typical “state institute”!
    I was pretty lucky to be reassigned to Heidelberg, where eventually I was in charge of an illustrating department that produced technical manuals analyzing Communist ICBM’s, weapons, equipment and materiel. I was also proud to receive a commendation from General Polk for developing what the Army referred to as “Tarpology Intelligence”, helping to identify strategic and tactical weaponry from the Soviet Bloc Nations which were introduced into battle in Viet Nam. I was extremely happy to discover that this program was responsible for saving some lives of my fellow GI’s.

    Comment by Bill O — February 6, 2013 @ 3:52 pm

  870. Bill(869),

    Thanks for the post. My MOS was also “illustrator”, now at least I know we had an MOS but I somehow remember it as “811)? Perhaps they changed it to fool the bad guys.


    Comment by manny adler — February 7, 2013 @ 4:47 pm

  871. Dossiers were for the most part very boring. Unless you happened to do a records check on a common name and didn’t furnish an exact birthdate. I did that once, paid for it by having to go through a 3 tiered cart full of dossiers that pertained to the Communist Party of the US. Great reading for the first couple of files but aftr that …. just get throught them to finish my report and get on with the growing stack of cases.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 10, 2013 @ 2:52 pm

  872. The good ones were in the Vault.

    Comment by bill — February 11, 2013 @ 3:55 pm

  873. Message 872

    Bill. The Vault. I have this recollection of helping to destroy lots of classified records at the Bird (shred, burn then stir the ashes) from WW II. Was this the Vault?


    Comment by David Edmonds — February 11, 2013 @ 4:30 pm

  874. My recollection of the Vault was a wire enclosure inside the CRF.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 11, 2013 @ 5:55 pm

  875. I remember a wire enclosure with a number of teletype machines in CRF. The Vault that I am referring to was just outside the huge room containing most of the dossiers. There was a civilian woman in charge of the Vault and if she thought you had the “need to know”, she would let you read it inside the room. I don’t know who determined which dossier was considered to be worthy of the vault. If you had access to CRF, your dossier was in the Vault and you couldn’t see it.

    Comment by bill — February 11, 2013 @ 11:54 pm

  876. Hey, Bill, thanks for the neat story–it brought back many memories of my (interesting and fun) time at Fort Holabird, Like you, I was an “L29” (German, and also Russian). I only used my Russian once on duty, to identify some strange material that showed up in the U.S. Customs House basement in Baltimore (our office was in that building). With a background in organic chemistry, I identified it as some harmless monomer for making things out of plastic. I was a “Special Agent, Counterintelligence,” wearing a suit and tie, carrying a badge and credentials, and investigating military and civilian personnel applying for security clearances. Later. by a “stateside swap” with a guy in the Dallas office, same rank and time-in-grade, I transferred back to Dallas, and he to Baltimore (he had an ailing mother in New York and wanted to be near her), and I left Baltimore–a dirty, polluted and congested city like the ones I grew up in as a boy–and landed back in Dallas, at that time a clean, modern, UNpolluted city. I was ecstatic! I saw my old frat brothers and fellow students at SMU, who were astounded, saying, “Calhoun, I thought you were in the ARMY!” “I am, ” I replied casually, gloating. “I’m working.” Boy, THAT got ’em interested, because most of them were terrified of going to “the ‘Nam.” And that’s how I spent my time in the service, during the worst war in our history. Oh, yeah, just before I got discharged and applied for (and got) a direct commission as a 2LT in the Reserve, in case they ever called me back (they didn’t). Boy, was God looking out for me, or WHAT!!??!!. Yours in Christ,

    John Calhoun, SSGT/RA18741996, then 2LT/05442090
    2819 W. Woodford Ave.,
    Fort Collins. CO 80521-2149

    Comment by John Calhoun — February 12, 2013 @ 4:09 pm


    Comment by ben burt — February 12, 2013 @ 7:11 pm

  878. Has any body run into George Ayers who was with the 1st inf MID detachment in Vietnam about 1969? If so where?

    Comment by James Weeks — February 16, 2013 @ 11:46 am

  879. Stationed at USAINTS at Fort Holabird for two years-1861-63. Early days of marriage–now 52 years going. Adopted our daughter while there. Served in the Office of the Director of Instruction. I was an assistant scoutmaster and later scoutmaster of Troop 486, the Fort Holabird Boy Scout troop. Have many fond memories of Fort Holabird and living in Baltimore. Thanks for sharing your memories.

    Comment by William F Bellais — February 18, 2013 @ 11:45 am

  880. Yhat’s 1961-63. I am not that old and I don’t think Fort Holabird was a post in the Civil War. Sorry about the error.

    Comment by William F Bellais — February 18, 2013 @ 11:46 am

  881. Just learned of this site. Very interesting. I passed through the Bird a couple of time, first for the INTC Officer Basic and 9666 in 1965, then the Advance Course and 9668 after I returned from a year in Korea as CO of the 7th MI Det. Then I went on to the 116th in Washington, DC, then, circumstances being what they were, I left AD in July, 40 days shy of promotion to 04. Got that, plus 05 and 06 in the National Guard, and retired in December 1990. If you were there with me, or on staff in those days, you may remember that while in the 9668 Course there was a group of us (we called ourselves the AgitProp Committee) who created awards for staff and others we liked (I recall for the Horst of a Different Color), and even for those we didn’t like. One instructor let it be known that we hadn’t given him anything. He wasn’t a fan of ours, so one day we came in early and drew a huge award in colored chalk on the magnetic blackboard (which he always used for a million ‘slap sticks’), then we closed the outer boards. When he came in he opened the panels, read his award, then had to erase it! Contact – smberg@erols.com

    Comment by Mike Berger — February 18, 2013 @ 12:31 pm

  882. My name is Don Knutson. I arrived at Fort Fumble in January 1958 and after a few days, a huge snow storm blanketed Baltimore. We peons were all issued snow shovels and shoveled some of the main streets of the post. Being a Minnesota boy, it boggled my mind at the lack of snow plows. After that, the 97B course was a snap, and I graduated on 10 May 1958. Stayed in and retired November 1977. My badge number was #182 (honest). Served a few tours in CONUS, plus Korea (201st MID), Germany (513th INTC Gp w/iaison to CIA) and Viet Nam (5th Special Forces Group), where I escaped with my tail feathers intact. Nice website; interesting. knutsond@comcast.net

    Comment by Don Knutson — February 18, 2013 @ 12:43 pm

  883. Wow. Basic at Ft Ord knowing that I would go to Holabird. Great 97B course SeptoDec’64. Almost got dropped due to a terrible first interview with the Italian who was not Al Strapelli. Made it. Got assigned to Indian-no-place with FO at Ft Ben Harrison. Lived in Indy, great duty, tons of sweet young things getting records for me.
    Bored volunteered for Korea, denied. No denying Viet Nam. Selected Can Tho in the delta for lack of military activity. Great duty. Was good friends with our translator Tang bao Can about my age. I have since made contact with Can who suffered greatly in re-education camp. He finally escaped. I took my family to Viet Nam in 1991 for foster son’s arranged wedding.
    Returned to the Bird on the FTX committee. On one training exercise with SF group at Ft Howard one of our guys was giving SF guy a bad time. Our guy started walking away and the SF guy told him to halt or he would shoot. Our guy didn’t SF guy did. They had blanks in their rifles and our guy took a wad that brusied his kidney.
    Great place and great times. I visit Ft Huachuca a couple of years ago for the INTC school. No way to teach surveilance there. You gotta hide behind the cactus. jaoarm@aol.com

    Comment by John O'Neal — February 18, 2013 @ 12:52 pm

  884. From about June 1952 – about Apr 55 I was a Army civilian clerical at the CIC School, Research & Development Dept which meant typing the textbooks for the school; writers were assigned to that dept. Also worked awhile at the Secretary of School office, and lastly as receptionist to the new school building until about June 1955 – Dec 1957 I worked at the Munich Field Office of the 66th CIC Gp/later known as the 7915th Group. Fascinating years for a young unattached female. My girlfriends and I loved going to the enlisted men’s service club at Holabird Wed. evenings and met lots of very nice young men; some married the short-term warriors of that cold war era. I have memories of great CIC people, some from Munich years I still am in contact with. I lived in the Charles Village part of Baltimore with my wonderful parents until I married in Dec 58, to a Boeing employee and have lived in Seattle WA to this day of Feb 2013. Greetings and good wishes to all!!! We were a tight group almost like a family group!

    Comment by rita schaub range — February 18, 2013 @ 12:59 pm

  885. Just found this site by reference in a friend’s email. I was there as captain in the agent handler course Jan – May 1967. I have relatively fond memories of the training and “Balimer,” but can’t for the life of me remember the names of any colleagues–which I deeply regret. If anyone wants to share memories, feel free to contact me at bdsutton@centurytel.net. I spent 37 years in intel work after this–in the Army and CIA.
    Boyd Sutton

    Comment by Boyd Sutton — February 18, 2013 @ 3:16 pm

  886. RE 883, John, I was at Fort Holabird when the SF guy shot the FTX guy with a blank. I was just telling my son about it the other night. They also broke another FTX guys arm during interrogation. They really did get carried away sometimes. I lived with some FTX people in the barracks back in 1965-1968 but I can’t remember their names.

    Comment by bill — February 18, 2013 @ 3:26 pm

  887. December 1946, Holabird Signal Depot: first, fill out a pink form (PHS of 1,000 pages, or so it seemed). What does CIC mean? You will be told in due time! Visit E Balto Street until class started in Jan in a warehouse without heat, but with ankle deep water. What memories! Thanks for the web.

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 18, 2013 @ 3:48 pm

  888. What an experience to read the stories of so many ex-CICers in one group of comments! I found only a couple of references to people and places during my era, so I’ll add my comments. While serving what turned out to be six months in a reserve MP unit, I interviewed in St. Paul, MN, for an enlistment in the Army of the U.S. with the stipulation that after successfully completing 16 weeks of basic, I would be assigned to the CIC school at Ft. Holabird for 16 weeks of training there. I arrived at Holabird in July 1952. I had taken my travel time from basic to get married and brought my new wife to “The Bird” with me. As a lowly E-2 we could not live on the post, so we found a second floor of a row-house in Dundalk. In the summer, it was a very hot place to try to live and sleep. While others who were waiting for a class had to do menial chores, I noticed a sign on a bulletin board that the post was looking for a lifeguard at the officer’s pool. Because I had a WSI and three years as a water front director at a summer camp, I got the job. Another guy and I guarded mostly officers’ wives and their children and kept the pool and its water clean. As a married student, I missed a lot of the “campus” chores but did have to show up for the once a week “housecleaning” and brass polishing of the brass stair rails. Again, I had to show up for the weekly Friday afternoon dress parades…agonizing. The dress for classes and other duties was the typical army fatigues, kept pressed, of course, with polished boots. Being married I did not partake of the bars unless accompanied by my escort. My wife worked for the Community Chest so we had a little extra money to go out on occasion. We went to the post movie theatre for “cheap” movies and to stay out of the house where we slept on the floor for some comfort. Because I had a newspaper background the courses were not very tough and the typing came easy. I finished the course in early December 1952 and was assigned to the Canal Zone along with John Owens. We traveled on military air transport out of Brookley AFB in Mobile, AL, and arrived as civilian employees of the Department of the Army 26 Dec 1952. In the CZ the CIC functioned as the FBI. We also worked on the army bases. And I recall how surprised I was that another lowly enilisted buddy of mine and I were tapped to do a security inspection of the mighty command post of the U.S. Caribbean Command in Quarry Heights, a very secure facility within a very big hill. Our work was background investigations for security clearances and complaint investigations. All the time we were there we were in civilian clothes until the day we left when I put on my uniform to return home as a sergeant. We did get to fly back to Benning for discharge. A few years ago, I wrote a book, “Christ I’m Confused” which tells of my experiences through a series of chapter anecdotes. If you’re interested, please contact me. I can’t think of a better way to spend time in the military than in the Canal Zone during the days when the U.S. pretty much ran the country. My basic training friends drew Korea and Germany, while I got the “soft” duty with nobody shooting at me. Keep the comments coming. And if anyone knows Bob “Fitz” Fitzpatric, Oscar H. Gillespie Jr., Joe Peshek, Hwenry Lopez, John S. Davis, Edmund A. Dicenzo or William H. Ryan, please have them contact me at daredie@yahyoo.com. Thanks

    Comment by Duane A. Rasmussen — February 18, 2013 @ 6:02 pm

  889. In June ’53 completed basic at FT Jackson; got married on 4 Jul, reported to Holabird on 5 Jul; completed Basic Investigations course Dec 53. Assigned to 11 th ABN CIC, transferred th 82d ABN CIC September ’54, discharded from AD Feb 56. Served in various reserve units, commanded 362d MI Det, later 268th MI Det. Retired 31 Jul 88 – Colonel o6, AUS. Also retired as
    Chief US Probation Officer, (ED/VA) 31 Jul 85. 40 years in MI, a great and rewarding experience…

    Comment by BILL TORRANS — February 18, 2013 @ 7:19 pm

  890. I was at Fort Holabird from Mar 55 thru Aug55 in Student Det 8579th DU (Detached Unit) Training Gp B-315 for CIC Officer Basic and Investigations Course and was pleased to find the previous posts and to learn the variety of ways others came to pass through Holabird that differed from mine. I have extracted a number of items (Holabird Guide, photos and historical material) from my collection – including a description of the interrogation I was given upon arrival at Holabird on page 44) at this link:


    Having had six years of ROTC in high school and college learning to be a Quartermaster officer, I was recruited while still in college to enlist as a Cpl (E4) in the ready reserves (H/H CO 1st BN 363rd Inf Regt), to incur an eight year obligation that I faced anyway as an ROTC graduate, and to request assignment to the 927th CIC Det (as a CI Agent, MOS 1301) by its CO, an insurance executive in San Francisco. At the time of my graduation the Army was overstocked with QM officers, so, logically, they commissioned me in the Military Police Corps. I went to work for a travel agency while waiting to be called to active duty, expecting to be sent to Fort Gordon GA for MP officer’s basic. Through the efforts of my CO, I was instead sent to Holabird.

    While my wife finished college in CA, as a married officer I lived off-post initially in the basement of a Dundalk residence (until the cockroaches took control of my room) and then, after my wife joined me, in a very hot, upstairs apartment in a Dundalk row-house that backed up to a low-income housing project that was “active” 24 hours a day. My daily walk to the post through the Polish cemetery and past a flank of unfriendly dogs was memorable. As were the icy conditions during weapons and map reading training at Aberdeen on the edge of Chesapeake Bay in early April.

    I only wore my uniform twice after I left Holabird – once for a three day TDY assignment to Camp McCoy WI, instructing reservists at summer camp in CI procedures and again when I was released from active duty at Fort Sheridan IL. In the interim I did background and special investigations as a CIC agent assigned to Hq, Region III, 113th CIC Det (aka 5050 SU Det) in Milwaukee (MOS 9302, changed to 9666 in Sep 55). My territory included the southern counties of WI, bordering IL – Senator Joseph Mc Carthy’s home country. This was also the period of Nike installation security surveys, VNR (Korean POW voluntary non-repatriates) and Hungarian refugee interrogations/investigations, some of whom made it back into the country in questionable ways.

    I served with some really outstanding men – some of whom were lawyers and doctors – who preferred to be drafted and serve two years as CIC agents rather than in their chosen professions for three years or longer. Near the end of my tour, the CO of the 113th in Chicago (Col. Wade Shankle) came to talk with me (I think, primarily because I was a fellow MP officer!), as did Colonel Ross, the Assistant Chief of Staff-Personnel for the Army Intelligence Center, who tried to recruit me into FOI (Field Operations Intelligence) in Europe. I declined because I had been accepted at the Graduate School of Business at Stanford, but I often reflect on how different my life might have been had I not.

    Comment by Wayne Dow — February 18, 2013 @ 11:38 pm

  891. I haven’t gone through the site completely but I will leave a note and return later. Maybe some of my best friends don’t know this. I grew up from birth in 1938 at 112 Williams Avenue, about three blocks from the front gate of Holabird on Dundalk Ave. My grandmother and mom work there during WW2 and later, grandma sewing gas masks and mom in accounting. My parental grandparents lived on Pine Ave in Dundalk where the old back gate exits past a saloon, can’t recall the name, and on down where my cousin still lives. In addition to H course, FOI and career course, I had deep connections to the Bird. Will return and Charlie Cleveland, did you take care of my guys in Berlin?

    Comment by Bob Hammel — February 19, 2013 @ 12:14 am

  892. PS/ I took CI (H) course in 1961, Advanced and FO in 67-68.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — February 19, 2013 @ 12:18 am

  893. I was fortunate enough to get to Holabird 3 times. May to July 1969, October to December 1970 and a 6 month stint in 1973/74. First visit was for the Military Intelligence Coordinator 97D20 class and then off to the 1st MI Co, LaiKhe, RVN. Didn’t know how good I had it until the 1st Infantry Division left and I was assigned to the 525th MI Group in Sigon. I now understand the meaning of REMF. Rotated back to Fort Holabird in September 1970 for an assignment at the Intell Center – Took me 3 months to get reassigned to the west coast. Fort Lawton, WA in Seattle with the 115th MI Group. Well that’s two posts that shut down shortly after I left. I first thought that was just bad luck but after attending the CI Agent 97B40 course at Fort Huachuca, AZ I was assigned to the Sunnyvale Field Office, CA of the 115th MI Group which was HQ’d out of the Presidio of San Francisco, CA. So now that is 3 posts that have closed after my assignments to them. I really didn’t appriciate how good we had it at Ft Holabird until many years later. Life was good then. After the creation of the Defense Investigative Service some of us were declared excess and again I was sent back to Ft Holabird. This time to support the Purge Project. I can’t even think of the number of files I reviewed and documented to be destroyed. After a good 6 months and a lot of golf I was reassigned with a couple of schools in route to the 502nd in Korea. I still keep in touch with quite a few of the folks I met and worked with in Korea.

    Dundalk is still alive and I get back to the old neighborhood every few years. So if I was assigned with any of you who took the time to read this post “I’m still alive and kicking” and can be reached at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, GA at James.Wasson@fletc.dhs.gov where I am an instructor molding the minds of new federal agents and other police officers from around the country. I think I still have another few years left in me. Jim

    Comment by James Wasson — February 19, 2013 @ 5:29 pm

  894. Manny,

    Please contact me. Rick Safran (Ft. Holabird–Student Bn -enlisted, Summer ’58; Editing & Composing Sect, USAINTS, ’58/’59; Lifeguard Holabird swimming pool, Summer, ’59; Chief, Synopsis Desk, Personnel Sec Section G-2 , Hq USAREUR, ’60. and HNOH Alum (where you contacted me, but I lost your phone number and address).

    Comment by Rick Safran — February 19, 2013 @ 7:07 pm

  895. Is that the same Linda Mathews who was in Korea in 74-75? I worked for Jim Misch in the TSCM Shop when you were there. I still keep in touch with a few of the old guys from Korea. You probably know that Ron Decomo passed away some years ago.


    Comment by James Wasson — February 19, 2013 @ 9:58 pm

  896. Re: 890, Wayne, thank you for the link. It brought back a ton of memories. I had forgotten all of the building numbers. The pictures were great!
    Thanks again.

    Comment by bill — February 20, 2013 @ 1:05 am

  897. Re 890

    Wayne – your link really did bring back lots of memories. I took the Interrogators course as a German linguist (96C2L29) in 1968 and was assigned to the 66th MI Group, 18th MI Bn (Joint Refugee Operations Center) in Berlin.

    I read your comments about your interrogation upon arrival at the Bird. I too traveled and resided outside the USA, as a dependent ( my father was USAF) and we lived in England (South Rislip AF base), France (NATO HQ) and Germany (Tempelhof AB)during the 50s and 60s. I do not recall being interrogated about these travels when I got to the Bird, but maybe that was because I was a dependant for much of that?

    Thanks again for the link – oustanding!


    Comment by gdmbrd — February 20, 2013 @ 6:27 am

  898. An open question for all Holaird graduates……….

    during my tenure at the Bird, there were lots of foreign military personnel present. The standing policy was “salute them if you don’t recognize the uniform and rank” (the joke was…..don’t salute the base Fire Marshal).

    My question is…….what couses were these foreign military personnel taking at thr Bird? I did not have a single one in any of my classes.


    Comment by gdmbrd — February 20, 2013 @ 6:33 am

  899. They were attending the Foreign Officer Intelligence course. In June of 1967 the Egypt/Israeli 6 day war broke out and they had to cancel the class quickly. There were reports of fist-fights in the classroom.

    Comment by bill — February 20, 2013 @ 11:12 am

  900. re 879
    Hey Bill, nice to catchup with you again after all these years. What’s happening since our 486 days?

    Phil Buley former ASM and Scoutmaster!

    Comment by Phil Buley — February 20, 2013 @ 6:03 pm

  901. RE 849

    I was assigned to the Bird 60-62 in the Adjutant Genersl’s office so I knew Sgt Dietzel quite well. I was the only lieutenant in the whole HQ staff, and ln my first toour, so he helped keep me on the right track.

    Say HI to your Mom for me.


    Comment by Phil Buley — February 20, 2013 @ 6:12 pm

  902. Rick Safran (#894),

    Can’t seem to find your number or address either but my father-in-law was an alumni of HNOH and my wife still gets the alumni newslater so they should have our address (under Ted Kurtz or Sheila Adler). Sorry.


    Comment by manny adler — February 20, 2013 @ 6:54 pm

  903. Have read thru all posts to date, and now claim to be the oldest alum (cic agent course) to post this site. Arrived at main gate via STREETCAR which ran down center of Dundalk Av in Nov 45. Course work was unusually informal: Surreptitious entry, interrogation techniques ( taught by an ex-PI from Cuba), etc.
    The open mess was staffed with German POWs from the Afrika Corps, and a large sign hanging over the serving line read RAUCHEN IN DER KUCHE IST VERBOTEN.
    The facility was primarily wooden barracks and large warehouses since it was still called Holabird Signal Depot, having been converted a couple years earlier from Transportation corps maintenance depot.
    Still in touch with a couple of buddies from the 441st Det in Japan where we spent a year in the Occupation.

    Comment by Bob Cronin — February 20, 2013 @ 7:14 pm

  904. Who remembers Peabody’s bar – maybe Ed Delehanty? It was about 15 minutes from Holabird in a somewhat residental area. The entryway was a long hallway with art on both walls before getting to the bar in back. Most of us called it “Pee’bod y’s”, but the guy from Boston who attended a French speaking college in Canada called it Pee’ba dy’s.
    I attendted Holabird agent’s class in 1956.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 21, 2013 @ 9:48 pm

  905. Bob Cronin,
    Do you remember a Pete Schuford as a co worker when you were in 441 st Det in Japan? He told me of those days while we worked together in the 115th MI Grp in California in 1969. He retired in about 1971 and moved as an artist to Corpus Cristi, Tx. He passed in about 1985 there. I visited he and his wife in 1984. I thought he was on of the best agents I ever knew. He was fluent in Japanese, Manderin and Cantonese (Chinese), Spanish and Portugese. He served many years in Panama between WWII and Vietnam. Just wondering he you knew him.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 21, 2013 @ 10:58 pm

  906. Gordon Cooper
    Don’t recall Schuford, who may have been in Tokyo or other Regional HQ. I was a Japanese linguist via ASTP, and spent my time mostly in Hachinohe (N/E coast) and Obihiro (Hokkaido) which were 3 agent field offices. There were probably several hundred agents in the 441st at any given time.
    My class (not numbered) at the Bird had only 28, all of whom came down from Philly after completion of the language program at U/Penn. Another group joined 441st w/o benefit of Holabird courses directly after completion of language program at Yale.
    I sure get a kick out of dredged-up memories

    Comment by Bob Cronin — February 22, 2013 @ 5:33 pm

  907. Re: 896. Bill, in May 2010 you posted an image of a “recruiting” brochure on the Holabird alumni Facebook page. Is there any story behind that interesting item, and what was printed on the back side of it? My curiosity is killing me and I don’t “do” Facebook.


    Comment by Wayne Dow — February 22, 2013 @ 7:07 pm

  908. Bob Cronin,
    I recall Schuford telling me that he was sent to the Wash.D.C. field office out of Holabird. He seemed to think that all agents were first sent there in those days. He told me he had to go interview Truman, who had been a listed character reference for someone and they gave it to Schuford because he was the low man on the totem pole at the time. Seemed everyone was chicken to interview the president. Schuford had a great interview and said it put him in good staid forever. He told me he had to live on a ship in the harbor at night and worked in Tokyo by day. Great stories Pete told.
    Gordon Cooper

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 22, 2013 @ 8:49 pm

  909. Bernie T. You asked about Peabody’s Bar in Baltimore. I was at Holabird in 1968-69 and seem to remember a place called Peabody’s bookstore that was part books and part bar. I think it was located up the hill on Charleston near Washington square area.

    Comment by David Morin — February 22, 2013 @ 9:16 pm

  910. RE 898, Gary, I have posted a graduation program for a Senior Foreign Officer class from 1967. I blocked out the names of the students just in case I should. It is at this link on FaceBook. I hope it works.

    Comment by bill — February 23, 2013 @ 12:21 am

  911. RE 907, Wayne. I was recruited in Boston, 1965. The recruiter gave me this pamphlet and fed me a line. It was the time of James Bond movies and I fell for it. Best move I ever made.

    Comment by bill — February 23, 2013 @ 12:54 am

  912. Bill. Thanks for the Holabird pictures. I was telling my wife just the other day about this Major at the Bird who was in the Troop Command. I told her I was assigned there for a duty day while in school. My memory of this Major was when he came to attention even his eyes clicked. Then today I see the picture you posted of Major Price. That is the major of my memory. He was all Army in the very best of ways. Thanks again

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — February 23, 2013 @ 7:39 pm

  913. My brother Roger (deceased) was a GS USA Security Agency analyst and Chinese linguist (Yale) from 1962 to the early 1990s when he retired from a USA MI Bn in Munich, Germany.He served in Seoul, Hawaii, Munich and other places. I wonder if anyone out there knew Roger but then again Roger was a quiet guy and I had to pry out conversation with him? Thanks. Karl Bossi Lt Colonel USAF (RET) Venice, FL

    Comment by Karl Bossi — February 23, 2013 @ 9:35 pm

  914. Re: Message # 909. David, Peabody’s Book Shop and Beer Stube was a regular stop on the return trip from the NYC area at the close of weekends spent at home. I was an instructor at Ft. Holabird during the period you specified and recall Peabody’s being a reliable source of reasonably kick-butt Mai Tais.

    I recall the place consisting of a narrow but deep layout with dimly lit floor-to-ceiling book shelves at the front and the “beer stube” located at the back. Often SRO and frequented by local amateur singing talent, I believe the establishment finally yielded to modernity and became, after reduction, a parking lot.

    Like so much of life, a denizen finally of our memories.

    Regards, Tom Coughlin

    Comment by Tom Coughlin — February 24, 2013 @ 3:13 am

  915. Dan, Bernie and Tom:

    Peabody’s was a big “no, no” or so the scuttle-butt had it. Apparently, or so the rumor mill ground out that it had “commie” books and such. A scary place indeed.
    This in the mid-fifties. Never went there. I seem to remember it being on Charles Street but who knows anymore?

    Manny Adler

    Comment by manny adler — February 24, 2013 @ 7:29 am

  916. Dan, Tom, and Manny,
    Thanks for updating my memory of Peabody’s since I remembered the hallway with art rather than book shelves.
    Many posts ago someone mentioned a Holabird instuctor who was very knowledgeable of Communism, but couldn’t remember his name. He was Bernard Sweeney and I remember him because he was so passionate against Communism.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 24, 2013 @ 12:21 pm

  917. Re #507 by Frank Davis. I recently found this web. CO of 526th in Okinawa was LTC John Finnegan; OpsO was MAJ Joe Kurata. I was Lns O to G2, RYUKYU Command, from 9/1964-12/1965. Where did you hide out? I lived in BOQ, Wheel Area with MAJ Robt Wheeler and CWO George Henderson. I still have contact with Joe Kurata and Jesse Maness, the CF Officer. Contact me at: dbridges7@ca.rr.com

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 24, 2013 @ 2:57 pm

  918. 917…make that ref 497, not 507,

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 24, 2013 @ 3:02 pm

  919. OK…ref 407….I dont type so well anymore!

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 24, 2013 @ 3:03 pm

  920. Reference Item 435 requesting informstion on LTC Max Belba. I knew Max during the period l960-68 at FT
    Holabird and ODCSI, USAREUR, Heidelberg. If the info is
    still needed, please contact me at: jennings1937@hotmail.
    com. Bill Jennings 24 Feb 2013.

    Comment by William I Jennings — February 24, 2013 @ 3:22 pm

  921. Bernie, I hadn’t heard of Sweeney since leaving the class. Wow, that is a name out of the past. Thanks, Gordon Cooper

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 24, 2013 @ 9:18 pm

  922. Re: 917 & 921
    Remember our SoCal CIC lunch at the Katella Deli on a wet Sat. last year?
    If Don Bridges can make our lunches with his bum knee, you should be able to make our next lunch, April 20, at Buca de Peppo.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — February 25, 2013 @ 12:11 am

  923. I was interviewed by the CIC office in Toledo, Ohio, in the spring of 1952 while still in college, and after enlisting was sent to Indiantown Gap Military Reservation in Harrisburg, PA for 16 weeks basic starting at the end of July. The part of the installation that we were assigned to had not been used since WWII and the barracks were dumps! After leave, I arrived at Holabird in time to start 1301 CI agent training from 12 January 53 to 24 April 53. At that time BGN P.E Gallagher was commandant. Much has been said about the classes including typing, but memorable were experiences like map reading in the woods of Maryland and ending up in some local bar for the afternoon.
    After CI agent classes, I was sent to the German language and area studies at the Bird from 20 May through 17 November 1953. The German class was taught by a very short and slight Capt. Rothchild and the area studies by a Mr. Noble. At that time, most of the students in class were enlisted with an NCO and one officer. By name in those in the class were Elton Replogle, the NCO, Russell Francis, Leroy Hart, Leon Horn, William Hostetter, Rodney Johnson, Gerald McGuire, Michael Sheets, Alvin Sirota and Robert Whitbread.
    The language students were housed in the wooden barracks which became extremely hot during that summer of 53. Mornings were the worst with the smog coming from the National Brewery on one side, the Sun Oil Refinery on the other side and Lever Bros. soap factory finishing it all off. Some mornings you could not breath. As a part of the German language training, we were able to visit frequently the base movie theater to view German language movies and enjoy the air conditioning. As a class, we were all assigned to Germany or Austria.
    Leaving Camp Kilmer, NJ, around the 11th of December 1953, we bounced around the Atlantic on one of the General class troop ships for 11 days arriving in time at Bremerhaven to be sent to Saurbrucken for dispatch to the 66th in Stuttgart two days before Christmas. The barracks in the Grosse Reiter Caserne – Wallace Barracks- were full so we were put up at Robinson Barracks for a week or so until we received assignment. I was assigned to Region I at Wallace under the command of LTC Bauer, an officer with the personality of a “Captain Quig.” Hats with our civilian clothes were an absolute requirement, and no idling of our cars in the parking area at the office on a cold morning to heat them up (not that the Opel had good heaters). I was given a safe house on Heinestrasse in Sonnenberg to live in with Norman Thalberg and Ned Sullivan. That was good quarters what with a maid to clean it up and to do our laundry in the bath tub!
    Getting back to our undercover black Opel’s, I don’t know how they expected us to do surveillances with those military plates and whip antennas. In the future, some stories may be told of what went on in 1954 Germany with McCarthy/Army hearings going on.
    By 1955, I was assigned to the refugee relief act of 1953 to do backgrounds on the displaced. I was allowed to hire a university student to do my leg work. With the Korean war over and the army reducing its size, rank was frozen and being engaged and only a E-4, I did not re-up and did not accept a civilian position in that same refugee program. In some way, I am sorry today that I didn’t.
    Bob Mann

    Comment by Bob Mann — February 25, 2013 @ 3:12 pm

  924. Ref: #k923

    Bob….thanks for sharing your “confrontation” with the Bird. You were there about 15 years before me, but we both ended up working for the same outfit.
    I was with the 66th MI Group also, but at the Berlin Field Station and HQ had relocated from Stuttgart to Munich (and later to Augsburg).

    I did stay on as a civilian interrogator for an additional 9 years (until 1978) and then didn’t believe our government would need interrogators much longer because we were winning the Cold War. Little did I know!


    Comment by gdmbrd — February 25, 2013 @ 9:09 pm

  925. Absolutely remember you Ed! Just noticed your Apr 2012 Post#637 to my #591. About MFO Civilian Secretaries: The exWave may have been JEAN HABER;just a guess.Jean suddenly was reassigned or sent USA.IRISH CLENNY a stunning tall redhead,DOLORES ZOLTEK,AURORA CUZZAVALGIA, ,ROSEMARY CARLIN married Tom Mountain military, Mountain),BETTY ANN GILMORE, wife of George, LIZ MCCURLEY an aristrocratic older woman from Baltimore.EDITH SZIBURIES MFO German translator in Baltimore since 1956. MR. MOSNEE a European translator. ABOUT INSTRUCTORS AT FORT HOLABID: Do you remember Fort Holabird German languageinstructor FREDERICK WOLINSKY,Austrian born & a unique gentleman? His entire family perished in concentration camps, sans his brother, both were lawyers in Austria BEFORE Hitler marched in. GAITANE PERREAULT from CT worked short time and transferred to McGraw HQ in Munich. HELEN ZEHNTNER,-it’s all coming back! ED, I remember your exhuberance and liveliness but no details why, just high energy! BERT STINE/STEIN was with CE team, German born, very heavyset.George Gilmore joked he doubted the helicopter would get off ground with Bert in it!George, always joking and a valued personnel.TED HENNING taught polygraph, also European born.He moved on to Schenecety NY with GENERAL ELECTRIC(???) I lost contact. CPT GLADWIN PATRICK a fine officer, his daughter lives in WA State. So many great people with the CIC School (1952-55)and Munich Field Office (1955-Dec 57). Lost contact with ANGELA LYNCH a typist with Refugee Seattlement Program 1955-57 era, run by State Dept in Munich. We were pals; she was from Cal and in Munich with her family; her Dad ROBERT LYNCH was with civilian personnel McGraw Kaserne. Would love to contact her, she had a younger sister who wanted to be a doctor.

    Comment by rita schaub range — February 26, 2013 @ 12:42 pm

  926. Rita Schaub Range contact rita2260@msn.com
    (see #925 comment Feb 26, 2012)

    Comment by rita schaub range — February 26, 2013 @ 12:46 pm

  927. Ref 925. You mention Bert Stein. I met with him regulsrly sub rosa during period 1/1962 to 9/1964. He was in Special Ops, HQ 109, Ft Meade, MD and I at Army Cml Ctr, Edgewood Arsenaal, MD. Great guy! Yes, a “great” torso.

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 26, 2013 @ 2:40 pm

  928. I was there summer of 1968. Did anyone ever met a girl who hanged out in a bar on post. Her name was Cheryl York. Very cute. Loved Holabird. I remember Geno’s Pizza.

    Comment by Ralph Vitale — March 3, 2013 @ 6:31 am

  929. This a test, I have not been able to get on this site. I’ll try again, I’m not a big computer guy, if not successful, I will try when one of my comouter kids come over.

    Comment by charles goffredo — March 3, 2013 @ 11:06 am

  930. I see my test run worked. I followed the same path down the turnpike, Ft Dix basic Jan 65 (what the hell was I thinking regular army basic at dix in the middle of the winter) After getting sick at an extended stay at Walton Army Hospital I finally got htru basic July 65. Arrived on 4th of July weekend. Got lost for a couple of days till class started. 97D40. Left to go to Korea with two other guys Cal and dont remeber the other name)> My self and Cal assigned to HHC 502nd MI BN. Worked Op files and Source admin. branch ay group Hqs. Col Dalton CO. Noticed a post from Jeff Terrell #493 remember him and Ralph Stein coming tomy office to run background checks. Dan Tompkins Post 507 was my first co followed by Cpt Price. Went home on leave Apr 67, got married and the left for 115th MI group. Presidio San Francisco with my bride. Thank you army for this almost one year honeymoon. Was given a MOS change to 97B (Agent) and was assigned as permanet nightime Duty Agent for the 115th MI Group. Great job, civilian clothes, handling any emergency that cam in overnight from our field offices, reported only to a Maj Catalano(looked like Kojak). My bride babysat for the post commander made a few dollars. Took in all that california offered. Had many relatives LA area(they still live there). Went back to NYC, became a NYPD cop and worked in organized crime bureau. The army and MI taught me alot and I used most of that traing in my career. By the was my Grandson is a PFC 2nd Div at DMZ in Korea. Love this site.

    Comment by charles goffredo — March 3, 2013 @ 11:22 am

  931. OK,, I’m beginning to think that I was the only one at the Bird working in the HQ from Sept of 63 to Apr 66. Here are aa few names I remember. Marc Kostolic, out of my class then to Post Info Office and then moved on to FTX. Dick Reed a fellow lead writer. Joe Foster he handled open case files. Robert Headly another lead writer. Capt Satterthwaite, my boss. Col Sheehan, his boss. The office I worked in was on the 2nd floor of the HQ Bldg. Then we moved to the ground floor of the CRF, just down the hall from the “computer room”. The punch card reader. My last move was to newly renovated offices on the south side of the CRF Bldg. That’s about all the names I can remember of the top of my head for now. Does anyone know of these folks …. or was it all put in my head by a nasty commie from behind the Iron Curtain?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — March 4, 2013 @ 8:21 pm

  932. In answer to 927 from 925; Bert STEIN was in the CE Section of Munich Field Office 1955-57 era when I was a steno working for CPT PATRICK, CPT CALLAHAN, MAJ LAWRENCE,as OICs.Bert had a light German accent. Never knew his European history.Hard worker well respected. Anyone know CPT Ralph KAHN,wife Ann? Ann was an artist. CPT KAHN was European born. And COL Alfred SCHERER at Holabird 1953-55; a kind man wrote great letter recommening me to the system getting me the wonderful Munich Field Office spot, after I qualified by testings in the now defunct Wash DC oversea procurement office.Without his letter I could have been assigned to a lesser location in Germany, lucky me to get Bavaria! Anyone know whatever happened to COL Himmelwright CO of MFO originally with Airborne; nickname was “Jumpin John”?

    Comment by Rita Range — March 5, 2013 @ 11:01 am

  933. Ref your 923:Your dates at Refugee program in Munich cross with mine at MFO. Been trying for years to locate Angela LYNCH a single girl working as a typist for the Refugee Program. Her Dad was ROBERT LYNCH a civilian at McGraw Kaserne on Tegenseelandstrasse I believe. We took ballet after work in Schwabin and travelled for 3 weeks to Scandinavian countries; a great friend from California originally. About 21 or so in 1955, had a younger sister wanting to go to med school.
    Refugee program had John Talbot visited us daily as civilian courier to ourMFO where I helped to the pay/admin work for the Refugee Progrm; the lady in charge had a heavy Southern accent; Refugee Program was a choice location in downtown Munich at old State Dept. The 66th was at Stettin Kaserne, an old Nazi building. I went back in 1986 and couldn’t find either site; MFO of 66th torn down; State Dept probably torn down also and replaced. Would love to hear your outlook and memories of that era. Did you have German lessons at the Bird from Frederick Wolinsky, Tom Glazier, Ted Henning(Polygraph and German teacher) They were my friends; lived in my Balto neighborhood of Charles Village near Hopkins University (not the Hopkins Hospital neighbordhood nearer Fort Holabird). We car-pooled together and always Frederick had interesting stories to tell;Frederick was a real humanitarian.

    Comment by Rita Range — March 5, 2013 @ 11:34 am

  934. Dan Ritchie

    When you worked for G2 USAINTC, did you know a civilian named Rose M. Noland who worked there? She came over to USAINTS to help us get our own S2 started. I ended up working with her for 3 years. She was still there when I got out and was about 70 years old.

    Comment by bill — March 6, 2013 @ 10:35 am

  935. Bill, I vaguely remember one civilian in our office. I don’t recall her name. If memory serves me though, she was a very nice black lady who put up with the antics of some very goofy kids trying to be adults.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — March 6, 2013 @ 11:41 am

  936. Re 932: Rita, I have a photo of Bert Stein that I will e-mail to you if you would like to have it.
    Don Bridges

    Comment by Don Bridges — March 6, 2013 @ 1:27 pm

  937. Dan Ritchie

    Rose was a white woman. How about Sgt Prado, he worked for USAINTC and processed in and checked for security clearances for the new students reporting to Fort Holabird before we took over.

    He was stocky and wore glasses.

    Comment by bill — March 7, 2013 @ 12:06 am

  938. Bill
    Sorry that doesn’t ring a bell. I worked in the case control section of the G-2 office. We handled more than just the student BI’s.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — March 7, 2013 @ 12:47 pm

  939. Re:933
    I worked the refugee program out of an office in downtown Stuttgart. I had a university student as my legman who would do much of the work in the DP buildings, and I would write them up. My German instructor at the Bird was Capt. Rothchild. He knew how to keep our noses to the grindstone for 6 months!

    Comment by Bob Mann — March 7, 2013 @ 2:10 pm

  940. re 939

    Bob….when were you in Stuttgart and what exactly was the “Refugee Program”? Many of the “Sources” we interrogated at JROC came to us from the “Notaufnahme Lager – Refugee Camp” in Berlin/Marienfelde.


    Comment by gdmbrd — March 7, 2013 @ 6:33 pm

  941. Wow…interesting to stumble across this site. My story is much like the rest of you. Never heard of MI until the recruiter in 1968 (after I got my draft notice) told me, “kid, you don’t want to drive a tank”, go into MI. Arrived at Fort Holabird on a city bus in January ’69 from the airport after basic at Fort Leonard Wood, carrying my duffel bag and suitcase. I remember it like it was yesterday.

    Got to the gate and the guard sent for a vehicle to come and get me to take me to casual. I thought I was going to get yelled at…and surprise, it was like all of you have described, it was so much different than what I expected. I was trained as a 97D and figured I would be headed to Vietnam right away and it seemed more like a possibility when the assignments were read aloud shortly before graduation. But I went to the 531st MI Company at Fort Meade. Most of the guys there were 97C’s back from Germany and we were a repo depot. The average education for the enlisted men was 16 years. Quite an experience for a Missouri farm kid. We were going to language class one day and a guy asked us, are you guys in the reserve? We sure didn’t look regular army. Military haircuts were about as popular as breaking starch. The 531st didn’t have a mission for a long time, so there was nothing to do. We were left to do what we wanted for most of the time. We later started supporting the school at the Bird for training agents. I learned a lot while at that assignment.

    After I finished training at Fort Holabird I lived just off post on Dundalk Ave. in what looked like a church that was converted to apartments. It was small and cheap! I carpooled with some other guys that were assigned to Fort Meade and we drove through the tunnel every day. My wife and I went on post often to the PX, to wash my car, commissary, movies, etc.. I later (late 1970) wound up in Vietnam at the 525th MI Group in Saigon where I worked with people I knew from the states. Even helped a couple of friends who were on there way over there with assignments. Seemed to me that MI is a world unto itself in the Army. Later I spent a few years with the 1st Infantry Div and after that in Saudi Arabia in a different MOS and learned a lot more about a different kind of Army and life in general. Fort Holabird was a special place to me.

    Comment by Bob Newell — March 8, 2013 @ 5:07 pm

  942. Re:940
    Gary, I was in Stuttgart from 1953 to 1955. Congress passed the second of two refugee relief acts in 1953 to try to help the displaced persons in Europe to come to the US. In the latter part of 1954 the program bogged down because of a lack of state department personnel to do background investigations. That is where CIC came into play. Those of us that could speak German were assigned to that program to move it along. I did both backgrounds on site at the DP camps and also wrote reports from info provided to me by my legman who did the majority of the backgrounds. By 1954, these displaced persons in Germany had already been living there for at least nine years and had been passed over by the first refugee relief act of 1948, thus these people were pretty hardcore in terms of being displaced. Interesting duty after having spent sometime in the CE field.

    Comment by Bob Mann — March 9, 2013 @ 2:45 pm

  943. re 941 – bob newell

    My story was similar to yours Bob. I arrived at Ft. Holabird straight from basic training at Ft. Ord in the Fall of 1968, was a German linguist already and went through the Interrogator course (96C2L29). I also expected assignment to Nam, but instead went to Ft. Meade for about 5 months. I can’t remember which unit at Meade (and it drives me nuts), but it was on a small hill just up from CIC and I believe very close to Ernie Pyle Road. Could that have been the 531st MI that you were in? We were told it was a “Holding Company” for those returning or going to Nam? We translated a lot of documents and letters in German, many of which were from German women looking for their G.I. boyfriends.


    Comment by gdmbrd — March 10, 2013 @ 7:37 am

  944. re 942 Bob Mann

    Thanks Bob. I arrived in Berlin in 1969 and didn’t get to Stuttgart often. Our HQ was in Munich (66th MI).

    The refugees we screened/interrogated were either escapees from Iron Curtain countries or were legally leaving East Germany, i.e. retirees (the East German regime didn’t want to pay their social costs). Such a farce…..at age 64 you’d be shot attempting to leave the DDR – at age 65 they encouraged you to leave!


    Comment by gdmbrd — March 10, 2013 @ 7:47 am

  945. re 943 Gary.

    Could be, when I first got to the 531st in 1969, it was a company sized unit that had just moved from Germany, lock stock and duffel bag. I remember the unit was still “officially” assigned to Germany. No one knew us or what to do with us. Within a few months it started to fill up with guys coming back from Vietnam or guys coming out of the school waiting to go over. Early on (before we started to fill up), we would have morning formation and then be dismissed for the day. I remember one morning an E-6 climbed down the fire escape clad only in a towel and walked to the front of the platoon as the 1st Sgt called attention. Only in MI, I think could that happen, it was hilarious.

    Don’t remember the street names, but we lived in WWII barracks with a coal fired furnace and coal fired water heater. I’ll never forget how to get clinkers out of the furnace.

    Comment by Bob Newell — March 10, 2013 @ 10:15 pm

  946. re 945 Bob Newell


    The barracks we were in were also wooden and of WWII vintage. I remember we had a circular driveway in front of the building. An immediate left upon entering took you to the Orderly Room and at the end of the hall was the CO’s office. Quarters were upstairs.


    Comment by gdmbrd — March 17, 2013 @ 12:38 pm

  947. Attended the Bird from June – August 1969, as a 96B (OB Intelligence Analyst). Out of my class of 100, 95 went to ‘Nam, 1 went to England, 1 to Greece, 1 to Turkey, and 2 of us to S.Korea. Afterwards, I was at the 508th M.I. Battalion. in Yongsan, S. Korea, then with the 201st M.I.D. in the G-2, at I Corps Headquarters, Camp Red Cloud, Uijongbu. Fell in love in country, and with the country. Extended my tour to 20 months. Passed up my ‘Dream Sheet’ for an Instructor’s Aide position at the Bird. 92nd Psyops at Bragg after that, until E.T.S., about 2 and 1/2 months early. Good B-B-Q beef sandwiches at a store just across the street from the main entrance to the Bird, on Holabird Ave. Only had 2 while I was there since my pay was only $60./month. Neat bar/tavern(with dartboard), on a small street just on the other side of the fence, on the far end of the Bird, near the Commander’s house. Climbed the fence and across the barbed wire, with many cuts to get there, instead of walking out from the Bird to Dundalk Ave., then to the bar. Took the long way back, instead of geting cut-up again, or caught.

    Comment by Jerry T. — March 21, 2013 @ 8:15 pm

  948. I will admit to breaking and the law and being very bad as I write this. I am driving across 80 from my parents house near Gary IN to my home near Toledo OH, at 11:30pm. My father, Tom Kopko, is terminal in the hospital & I want my son to have an opportunity to see his grandfather one last time. While I was looking through some papers for my mother, I found my fathers discharge papers from the 308th in 1955, I think, from Fort Holabird.

    The extent of what I know about his service is that he was stationed in Soul For I believe a year as a PFC. He carried a PPK, roomed with a 1st Sargent, and didn’t have to salute officers. He always said all he did was type. That he was drafted after he graduated from Indiana Univ, & volunteered the information that he knew how to type in boot camp when his formation was asked.

    If anyone remembers him I would love to hear some stories about him. He never really spoke about his time in Korea, and now it’s to late.

    Please feel free to email me @ bob.kopko@gmail.com

    Thank-you, in advance.

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 22, 2013 @ 12:37 am

  949. Correction on dates for Tom Kopko Pfc E-3.
    Entered service 12 May 52
    CIC Gen Fort Holabird Oct52-Feb53 course Intel Analyst
    MOS:1636 Intelligence Analyst ??? (Can anyone tell me what this mos means?)
    1yr 1mo 16days foreign service

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 23, 2013 @ 12:26 am

  950. Bob,

    MOS is an abbreviation for: Military Occupational Specialty

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 23, 2013 @ 5:15 pm

  951. Edward, thank you. My question was not worded the way it should have been. I know the MOS defines the specialty. His MOS does not seem well defined. MOS
    Intelligence analyst – 1636
    Intelligence clerk, chief – 1636
    Intelligence editor – 1636
    Intelligence operations sergeant – 1636

    All his papers say one of 2 things.
    mos: 1636 CIC
    mos: 1636 Intelligence analyst
    These don’t sound like a clerk to me, which is what he has alway told my mom, brother & I, he was.

    He also recieved what he always said was an “I was there medal”. The Commendation Ribbon with Medal Pendant for, “As an Intelligence Analyst…responsible for the processing of all counter intelligence reports handled by the Special Studies Section Operations Division”.

    The 4 different definitions of his MOS seems odd. I can’t find other MOS ratings that are not well defined.

    Also a new question that comes up, what was the Special Studies Section Operations Division? If anyone knows or remembers.

    Thank you agian fr your response.

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 24, 2013 @ 11:37 am

  952. Ref# 948,949&951 Bob, you are welcome.If your Dad roomed with a 1st sergeant(grade e-8) in Korea and he was a PFC(grade e-3)and didn’t have to salute officers it could be that had some agent background training although grade of PFC seems too low for that particular position.When I was in Holabird in 1966-1967 I was graduated as an Intelligence Analyst and the M.O.S. was designated as a 96b20
    A gentleman named Manny Adler who contributes very knowledgeable and helpful information to this site went through the agent course in the mid 50s, can probably be of more help to you than I. The info you provided is more useful to his area of expertise than I can give.
    The best to you and your son and of course your Dad.
    Manny are you out there?

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 24, 2013 @ 4:41 pm

  953. Re 951, Bob,
    It seems like the Korean War had it’s own specific MOS’s. According to the site “Korean War Educator”, these are the MOS’s you refer to.

    Intelligence analyst – 1636
    Intelligence clerk, chief – 1636
    Intelligence editor – 1636
    Intelligence operations sergeant – 1636

    They later became MOS 96D20. The name of the course was Image Interpreter.

    Comment by bill — March 24, 2013 @ 7:10 pm

  954. Thank-you Bill. I ran across a group today, NCICA, for former CIC members. I sent the same request for information there. I am really hoping to find someone who served with him. But, with his age being a month short of 85, I am afraid there are not many left around. I am greatful for any and all information I can find.

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 24, 2013 @ 10:54 pm

  955. Ed (#952),

    I am out here somewhere in cyber-space but did not go through an agents course (see posts for background information).


    Comment by manny adler — March 25, 2013 @ 2:04 pm

  956. Manny(#955)

    Sorry for the mistaken assumption. I do remember that you spoke German.Glad to know you are still out there somewhere.Good to see Bill came across with some information for Bob Kopko. I am sure he appreciates your timely responses. Later,gentleman

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — March 25, 2013 @ 10:51 pm

  957. I appreciated all the responses, very much.
    Thanks to all of you. My quest continues.

    Comment by Bob Kopko — March 27, 2013 @ 5:51 pm

  958. re 948 Bob Kopko


    If you Google 308th, there are a number of units mentioned and the unit history is often shown. Some of these outfits have associations, made up of current and past members. You might find someone who knew your Dad that way. I could not see that a 308th was ever in Holabird, but the 308th MI Bn was formed in 1952 in New York, NY. Maybe your Dad went to the Bird for training while he was with the 308th? Anyway, good luck and all the best for your Dad.


    Comment by gdmbrd — March 28, 2013 @ 4:37 pm

  959. Re comment 923 by Bob Mann:


    Enjoyed reading your comments since I too was in Region I, 66th CIC, during much of the same period that you were. I was fortunate to spend 1954-1956 at Region I’s Karlruhe Field Office with a great group of people – Joe Wozenski, Charles Parker, Ed Wach, Bob Button, Bill Hostetter, Norm Tulp, Elton Replogle, Craig Bentley, Bill Martens and I’m sure a few names I’ve forgotten. I noted that you attended German language class at Holabird with Elton Replogal and Bill Hostetter. Bill and I were good friends and I’ve often wondered where he is today. I still keep in touch with Charles Parker who lives in Florida. Also kept in touch with Joe Wozenski until his passing in the 1990s. My wife and I have many fond memories of our two years in Karlsruhe.


    Comment by Rogers (Rod) Vaughn — April 1, 2013 @ 9:52 am

  960. Re 959 Rod Vaughn
    Elton Replogle was listed as a member of ACICV and was living in the Seattle area a couple of years ago. I haven’t heard more since, nor have I heard about any of the others. That was a l o n g time ago!
    Bob Mann

    Comment by Bob Mann — April 11, 2013 @ 3:57 pm

  961. Re my previous post #930. Since I discovered this site back in March of this year, I have been intrigued by it. I have looked it over several times and remember a lot of things a long time forgotten. I noticed several posts by names that I remember and some by people who I think our paths crossed, especially in the 502nd MI in Korea. For instance Jeff Terrell post 493, I remember him very well. I tried his e-mail that was posted but was unable to contact him Jeff if you are reading this please contact, I would like to catch up on old times. Capt TOmpkins post 507, thank you for only suspending my driving license for 3 days after I overturned the deuce and half coming back from the orphanage and landing upside down in a rice paddy. Had about 6 MI guys in the back of the truck, thank God all were okay(it wasn’t my fault, tried to avoid a oxcart on a narrow road and hit a soft spot on a narrow mountain road). Dan Rundell Post #508, we were at 502nd same time, remember your name but can’t put two and two together. Someone mentioned the club at Yongsan compound, yes it was named The Hilltop Club. Up the stone steps right next to the mess hall. I used to run the projector at the club two nights a week. Big draw was re-runs of the Untouchables and Rawhide with Clint Eastwood. Got paid a whopping $5 for the week. Never saw a dime all went to buying 10 cent beers for the guys(Schlitz and Black Label only available). Also was the armed payroll guard with the XO on payday. Loved the 502nd, spent 19 months there. More stories to follow, I see there is a lull in the action on this site. Come on guys and gals, more posts.
    On a sad note, I found out last week that Agent Ralph Stein Co B 502nd 1966 passed away in Feb of this year. Ralph was a constitutional law professor at Pace University in NYC.
    My e-mail mrg723@si.rr.com Thank you everyone.

    Comment by charles goffredo — April 11, 2013 @ 7:18 pm

  962. Charles(ref 961)
    I (ref 187 ) also fondly remember Yongsan compound being there from Feb.68 to June 68 with the 502nd G2,8thArmy. I was sent there shortly after the Pueblo Incident from USARPAC Hawaii and expected a grim tour.Found out that this was the place to be if you got shipped to the ROK.As I recall,the mess hall didn’t segregate by rank;E-2s ate alongside E-8s or an occasional E-9.We had Korean cooks overseen by the Mess Sergeant and female Korean waitresses that handed you a slip of paper with a short menu on it and you circled your choice They delivered your meal to your table.We always ate there because the food was excellent.Sundays- blueberry pancakes ,waffles,omelets and a fruit array were outstanding!
    Yes,up the stone steps was the infamous “Hilltop Club”
    where you could get a drink and a Moose that would satisfy a general.If you were a FNG,Kim the bartender would make you a North Korean Special that had several different shots in a concoction that had to be consumed for your initiation into the 502nd.Dues were paid monthly and a party was usually planned with the left over money.WE had a barbecue late in the spring that rivaled any that I had encountered.The Korean cooks put a 400lb pig on a spit outside in the party area wrapped in tin foil at about 4 in the afternoon on Friday and it wasn’t done until early afternoon on SAturday.You could smell that sucker all night and made your mouth water.They had separate garbage cans filled with iced beer,wine,whiskey,scotch and who knows what else that could have intoxicated an entire battalion and there were probably only 75 of us to 100.Every one was drunk,many inebriated, several passed out and some who just wandered off with their mooses.The pig was excellent,charred on the outside succulent below with a taste so good.We ate like Vikings.I had many swell times there, wished I could have been there for the summer for additional festivities and another deuce and a half excursion to the banks of the Han River. Ed.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — April 13, 2013 @ 4:40 pm

  963. Ed(#187 & 962)
    Thank you very much for your post in regards to my post . Yes we had Korean cooks and waitresses who gave us a short menu. If the menu stated sacrambled eggs you knew it meant powder eggs. Choice of eggs, you got fresh eggs. Mr kim was indeed the bartender at the Hilltop club. In addition to liquid refreshments you could get a very large dish of fried rice for a quarter(1965) There was also our barber shop thru the door to the left of the bar. Were the slot machines and pinball machines still there when you got there? Never once had to do any kind of duty outside of my MOS. The Korean civilians and the ROK soldiers did all the rest. My quarters (Quonset hut) was the closest to Hqs hut and was also a very long walk to the latrine, especially in the dead of winter. Thanks again Ed for responding.

    Comment by charles goffredo — April 13, 2013 @ 7:39 pm

  964. Charles(963)

    You are welcome ,Charles.I recall some slot machines being there,I played the one on the left side of the bar as you came into the building.I believe it was a five cent bandit and it payed out often if you pulled the handle a certain way.For a brief time I went to the USOM(?)club and it was modern.You had to dress up to get in and I think it was frequented by GS civilian people and upper brass.I forget where it was located but I do remember it being on higher elevation with a circular drive-up.A few of my cohorts and I played the same twenty-five cent machine for 3-4 days(after duty)waiting for the thief to pay out big but it never did.I quartered in a Quonset hut also and it was comfortably warm even in the dead of winter.Korean Nationals used to re-fill the stoves with fuel in the wee hours of the night.The latrine was a hike but the showers were hot and the place was clean.The only inconvenience that I had with the distance was when I became ill the day after I arrived at HHC and had the runs.After a few trips to the can I decided to keep the clothes on and sleep in them as the trips back and forth took it’s toll.I received a gamma globulin shot a week prior when I came into country.Whew! The medics hit both sides of your butt with a needle the size of a cigar!Everyone who received it slept on their stomachs for days,it hurt like hell!

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — April 14, 2013 @ 5:36 pm

  965. reference 961,962,963 what time period are you referring to? I was there from 1965 1966. I remember this being a very active period over that period. we had 4-5 agents, and a clerk. I remember kirk from Bristol, Tenn/VA. don’t remember last name. I also remember Tim, red headed, I can’t remember the AIC, although I think it was “Van Arsdale:. can’t be sure about that. well, love to hear from some one there during that time. j. bone. jhbone@vaughnlawfirm.net

    Comment by james h. bone — April 15, 2013 @ 11:54 am

  966. A lot of recent comments are coming from folks from from the 502nd MI Bn in Seoul, Korea. If you are on Facebook go to the Seoul, Korea, 502nd MI Tracy or Tracey Compound Facebook page and join up. We can expand it to include Yongsan HHC and other companies of 502nd MI folks. The Korea of the 1960s was the best kept secret in the army as you all remember.

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — April 15, 2013 @ 3:05 pm

  967. James(ref 965)

    I was at the 502nd HHC and worked at G2 HQ 8th Army from early Feb. 68 to late June 68.Was sent there in response to the Pueblo being captured. It was an active period when I was there also;I think the assault by NK infiltrators on the Blue House happened shortly before I got in country

    Daryl (ref 966)Thanks,I’ll check it out.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — April 15, 2013 @ 10:05 pm

  968. Fellow Holabird graduates and Cold War Intel comrades,

    Like most of you, I found this site by accident and have thoroughly enjoyed reading of your experiences, trials and tribulations and friendships. It is great to see some of you locate and communicate with past comrades and it does the heart good to sense the profound respect and pride od service displayed in these posts. Personally, I have not yet located anyone I served with – perhaps this is due to the fact that after the Bird, I was assigned to relatively small and covert units, or simply a matter that none of my comrades have located this site? It is, however, gratifying to read the antics and experiences of fellow 96 Charlies!

    Someone recently mentioned that there was a lull in communication here. I worry each time that happens that perhaps another comrade has left us, as it doesn ‘t take Einstein to figure out that if we are all Holabird grads, then the youngest of our breed are at least 60+. I hope those lulls simply indicate that many of us could be retired and are out fishing, playing golf or on vacation with the grandchildren.

    I would just like to express to you all what a pleasure it has been reading your posts and how proud I have always been to have been part of our Armed Forces, the Intelligence Branch and especially of Fort Holabird.

    All the best,


    Comment by gdmbrd — April 16, 2013 @ 6:04 am

  969. Ref 967: The Pueblo incident was in Jan 68; 2 days before the NKs tried to blow up the Blue House. Martial law was declared. Of the 12 NKs, 9 were killed, 2 escaped or froze trying to get home, and 1 was captured.
    Interesting time. I was with Co B, 502 (formerly 308 CIC), Nov 67-Dec 68.

    Comment by Don Bridges — April 16, 2013 @ 10:53 am

  970. 502 dates were Sepo67 – Nov 68

    Comment by Don Bridges — April 16, 2013 @ 11:00 am

  971. 502nd dates: Sept. 66 – March 68
    These 502nd posts bring back lots of lost memories. Loved the Hill Top Club and introducing the new guys to Lemon Hart rum. (god that stuff was nasty)

    Comment by Steve Bostick — April 16, 2013 @ 1:21 pm

  972. Ref my Post 961. I arrived 502nd HHC mid September 1965 from Ft Holabird with Cal cant exactly remember his name and a third classmate who was assigned to Co B. The three of us were 97d20. We were the lucky ones the rest of our class went mostly to Viet Nam. I spent a total of 19 months at HHC (6 months longer than the average tour at the time) I left in April 1967 and even remember filling out my dream assignment sheet requesting the 108th MI (specially the NYC office The aarmy sent me as close to NYC as possible. The 115th MI group located at the Presdio San Francisco. My previous post 930 I explained I got married on leave and brought my bride to San Francisco with me.(still married to same woman, 46 years next week.) As part of my duty in 502nd drove my immediate boss and Col Dalton to various companies and field offices and the embassy where I met a lot of the MI personnel. Sorry I cant remember many names , but I,m glad my recent post about a lull in the action on this page has created some new and welcome activity. Keep it coming.

    Comment by charles goffredo — April 16, 2013 @ 3:14 pm

  973. Were courier runs still required in 1965-69 in Korea or did technology overtake the need?
    In 1956-57, I took two courier trips via train from Seoul to Pusan. The train was a Korea “milk train” that took 12 hours [6 AM to 6 PM] with a number of stops to travel the 240-250 miles from Seoul to Pusan.
    We travelled in one of the two UN railroad cars with just a few riders. This made it easy not to talk to anyone. [or was it our culture not to talk with strangers?]
    In winter, the UN cars were close to the engine for warm [in theory anyway]. In summer, the UN cars were at the end of the train so that the windows could be closed when travelling thru a tunnel. Ocassionally, someone didn’t close the windows in time and the black engine smoke would enter the car.
    The briefcase was handcuffed to our wrist [we had no keys] and we carried a snub-nosed 38 revolver in a quick-release holster. At Taejon and Taegu, the “field office” SAIC and two special agents would meet
    us with a key to the briefcase. The SAIC would remove a folder and replace it with another folder. At
    Pusan, we would be relieved of the briefcase, have a few drinks with some of the guys in the compound bar,
    and reverse the trip the next day.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 17, 2013 @ 4:56 pm

  974. Bernie, I did similar courier duty from Andrews AFB to Alice Springs, Australia in 1969. There was a communications site at a place called Pine Gap, just outside Alice Springs. Will you be a the luncheon tomorrow in Anaheim? Gordon Cooper

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — April 18, 2013 @ 1:11 pm

  975. Hello to Rita Schaub and Bob Mann. Enjoyed your posts. I went through Holabird, Rita, when you were working there. After I was discharged in June 1955 I went to Germany to work in the Refugee Relief Program (a federally-funded program of 1953). I was in Region III in Frankfurt although I spent some time on tdy in the Ruhr area. I worked in Germany until the end of 1956 when the funding ended. I loved the job. Met Germans of all stripes: Nazis, ex-Nazis, Luftwaffe pilots, Russian-front vets, a handful of vets who admitted they fought against the Americans, former Allgemeine SS officers, a ton of Waffen SS vets, Kripo SS veterans (sonsabitches), Americans of German descent who had visited Germany and were trapped there during the war and so on. Also a lot of Afrika Korps vets who had POWs in the States. Some of those women who had been trapped in Germany has lost their American citizenship. One begged me in tears to do something for her. Her family was in St. Louis. I told her how to get them to get their local congressman to pass a “special bill” in congress to get her citizenship back. I never learned what happened. Most of our work dealt with border crossers in Germany from 1945 until around 1953. CIC had employed about 250 former CIC agents to work as GS-8 civilians. A few of the guys hired had been agents in Berlin in the 1948-50 period and had a lot of stories to tell. CIC had trouble filling the positions. My wife and I wanted to go to Europe (she had a grandmother in Holland), and although the job was temporary, we looked forward to the excitement of living in Europe. My conversations with German women who had survived the bombings of Darmstadt (a small-scale Dresden), Cologne (and other Ruhr cities) were memorable. One Wehrmacht vet home on leave from the Russian front told me how he was caught in Cologne in one of the 2,000-plane raids. “Worst thing I ever experienced!” One woman on a farm told me how she watched an American fighter plane strafe her grandfather who was plowing in a field with a horse. Both were killed. She was understandably bitter. That was one of the reasons so many pilots were lynched by mobs when they were shot down. I really enjoyed staying in British officer billets. They, like the Americans, took over the castles and baronys after the war. One near Muenster was really great. We were paid ten dollars per diem (really big money!) but we could stay with the British for $2.50 a day. I was earning more than a British major, driving my black opel sedan, and speaking German. Very few British were interested in learning German. When I told them what I was doing (doing background checks on refugees), they didn’t believe me. It sounded like some foolish cover story. Double scotch and sodas at the bar cost ten cents — true story, and one of the reasons alcoholism was a problem in the officers corps. One lieutenant my age told me at the bar one night that I was the first American he ever knew that he liked. “Really,” I replied. “How many have you known, Bill?” “Oh, you’re the first. But I have seen Americans on the Strand, in the movies, and you are different.” And so it went. I nearly stayed over there as I was offered a job at Camp King in Oberursel. My German was getting better all the time (I was rattling off the subjunctive like an educated German. My accent was good and I even looked like a German. A lot locals thought I was a native speaker. That is, until we got off the subject and my vocabulary ran dry.). I had to go to the Kripo (criminal police) one day in Frankfurt. The inspector was an older guy and obviously still a Nazi. I had trouble translating a court document, and I asked him to help. He finally said, “I’m having trouble with your German. I think we should speak English.” He looked at me like I was dog meat. I poured it on, speaking a little faster and loading up the vocabulary. He was suffering. I finally said, “I’m having trouble with your English. I think we should go back to German.” He looked at me like he was ready to shoot some slavic peasant. We continued the interview, I speaking German and he speaking English. It was great.
    Those were fun times.

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 20, 2013 @ 2:07 pm

  976. Jim,

    I’m surprised you actually met a Nazi. My experience is that nobody knew anything about anything and all even if they did were “unshuldig” and after all after all “Befehl ist befehl”. Loved your post. This is the type of historical material that has been lost. More detail please (or even a book or NEW YORKER piece).


    Comment by manny adler — April 21, 2013 @ 6:42 am

  977. Ref: 975 & 976. My experience is similar to Manny’s. My Idar-Oberstein landlord in the early 1960s claimed he was a forward observer during WWII and never left Germany. Our friend’s landlord claimed he did nothing of significance in the War, but served three years in a French prison for doing “nothing”.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — April 21, 2013 @ 9:29 am

  978. Thanks for the comments. I will write more later. We used to joke in the office that the SS was purely a service organization: clerk typists and truck drivers. No one seemed to have shot anybody. Secondly, every veteran seemed to have fought on the Russian front, never against the Americans. After some months, I met a German who had fought against us in eastern France and as far east as Augsburg. I literally shook his hand for his candor. I told him he was the first German who had admitted to me that he had fought against Americans.

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 21, 2013 @ 12:07 pm

  979. Arrived at the “Bird” in Nov 1956 after basic trng at Dix for special agent training. Upon completion assigned to 902nd CIC Group in DC. Two years at the “duce” where I applied for and received a direct 2nd Lt commission. Assigned to 24MI Bn after 902nd. Back to the “Bird” for Photo Interp course and then back to 24th. Transferred to US Navy as sqdn intel officer at NAS New York. After some 15 years of naval service active and reserve, retired as CDR.
    Best year of my life were in the service both Army and Navy in Intel.

    Comment by CDR Robert Becker — April 21, 2013 @ 2:12 pm

  980. Nazis I met (re: 976-977): Germans never conceded they were pro-Hitler, but by their negative comments about the Allies and their overt hostility to Americans, it was easy to conclude how they felt. I used to do interviews in a refugee camp holding Baltic people in Rheine, just north of Muenster. It was an old Luftwaffe fighter base jammed with Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians. The camp director was an intelligent German woman whose husband was still in prison (1956) for crimes he committed as a member of the SD (Sicherheitsdienst — the worst of the worst). Most German prisoners had already been released during the period from 1950 to 1954, Adenauer’s price for backing us against the Soviets. So her husband was really a bad guy, but she complained regularly about how unjust it was to have him put away. She made jokes about the refugees in the camp who were “slavic pigs,” who were born to become Americans. “Please take them all. We don’t want them here.” She particularly hated the British. One day she commented, “Gross Britannia, the most mis-named country in history.” I had one grim experience in that camp. When I left our main office in Frankfurt, my C.O., Captain Kennedy, handed me a dossier and said, “Can you give this news to the woman in the Rheine camp.” I didn’t think about it until over breakfast a few days later as I planned my work day, mapping out an itinerary. I leafed through the dossier. It was an official notice that the applicant was being denied a visa because she had a spot on one of her lungs. I thought, oh boy, I have to give her this news. That afternoon I knocked on the door of the family’s room in the camp, and introduced myself as from the American consulate (which was SOP for us). A young woman greeted me and the room was filled with seven or eight people, the whole family. My subject was the grandmother. They were overjoyed to see me, bowing and shaking hands, expecting to learn more about their impending immigration to America. I gave them the grim news as diplomatically as I could in my awkward German. The son blew up and said, “Why? That can’t be the problem. She is healthy.” Well, the law at that time was rigid, no evidence of TB and no mental illness. Soon there were tears everywhere. I tried to sooth those people, but to no avail. It was a sad
    drive home. We always said we represented the American Consulate rather than security organizations. The exception was when we went into police stations. Then we were members of the “Sicherheitsdient,” spoken with emphasis. That always turned heads. In the Third Reich, the criminal police were SS members which meant that every detective or inspector in police stations over the age of 35 or 40 had been in the SS. Some were OK, but many were still upset about the outcome of the war. Consider that there were thousands of Germans walking around who had been in the SS. At Dachau we tried roughly 100 guards from Mauthausen concentration camp out of a staff complement of 5,500 SS personnel. This is just one camp out of dozens. Most of those who were convicted were freed by 1955. At the same time we were processing ex-Waffen SS personnel through the refugee program. There had been over 900,000 members of the Waffen SS and only about 50,000 worked at concentration camps. When we could identify those guys, they were disqualified. Easier said than done. I knew two Waffen SS veterans right here in Oceanside, California where I live. Few people know we did this. And, of course, we gleefully processed dozens of ex-prostitutes who went through without a hitch.

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 22, 2013 @ 12:45 pm

  981. Jim(#980),

    Just finishing a book titled USEFUL ENEMIES by Richard Rashke which may be of interest to you others on this site; very much parallels your last post.

    Keep the information flowing or it may become lost in the dustbin of time. We need to hear all of your stories before we dwindle away to where Holabird now exists.

    Thanks all.


    Comment by manny adler — April 28, 2013 @ 6:07 am

  982. great site…but didn’t find any buddies…
    spent 1 1/2 yrs as RA then OCS at Ft. Benning, comm MI then to Ft. Holabird for 9666 course..assigned as OIC to Wilkes-Barre, PA w/HQ in Philly for 6 months doing BIs …then to VN, 525th, III Corps (Bien Hoa, Xuan Loc, Bear Cat, Vung Tau (7/69-7/70) was OIC at Bien Hoa 3AOX field office on the Army Base but not at the HQ…would love to hear from anyone who was assigned to III Corps; GetThere2@aol.com

    Comment by Jerry Smith — April 28, 2013 @ 2:38 pm

  983. I am reading Col. Jim Milano’s book Soldiers, Spies, and the Rat Line. It is about the 430th in Austria in the l945-50 period. Are there people out there in the ACICV and on this site who recall Milano in the 430th? Or any of his people (he was a major at the time). In 1954 at Holabird, our interrogations instructor in the 1301 course was an Italian-American whose name I can’t recall. He was pretty dull: we called him “The Italian sandman” as he rambled on from time to time. But, we had heard that in Vienna he had been involved in one of the cases that involved the “Third Man.” The book and movie are made up of several factual occurrences, as I understand it.
    Milano discusses the original role of CIC in Austria that was similar to the CIC role in Berlin and elsewhere in Germany, namely, positive intelligence and handling agents penetrating the Soviet establishment. He discusses turning over the operations to the CIA. A couple of Berlin vets were in our refugee office on Zeppelin Allee in Frankfurt that I worked with, and could tell some interesting stories. In 1955-56, the PX gas station near Wac Circle employed about six or seven guys from Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and East Germany. Originally, they went back across the border for the CIC, but all had been handed over to the CIA in the I.G. Farben Building. One of the guys came into our office one day and pleaded for help. He had been promised that after his final mission, he would be allowed to immigrate to the US. He said that he was forced to run one trip after that and now was asked to do another. He said he knew several men who had disappeared, and he was afraid to go back, but his handler would not listen. One of the Berlin vets in our office listened to his story, and then asked me to go with him to the American Consulate. He wanted a third-party witness. There, we told one of the senior officials the story and asked him to call off the CIA, but the guy wasn’t interested. “We have business to conduct.” Finally, the older man I was with (He was around 40 as I recall) lit into him about exploiting these poor guys. A few days later, our C.O. spoke to us and told us to keep hands off the guys at the gas station and to make no more trips to the consulate complaining. He said he got his orders from 66th CIC hqs in Stuttgart through LTC Butler at Offenbach, Region III hqs. Hence, the old timers had no use for the CIA people.
    I am wondering if there are any out there who have a few CIC-CIA stories to relate.

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 29, 2013 @ 12:56 pm

  984. Manny (981),
    I have not read Useful Enemies, but have had read other accounts over the years. It was said, “When we divorced the Soviets, we married the Germans.” Hence, General Gehlen and others became our friends and helpers. I would guess that one thousand to five thousand former Waffen SS people immigrated to the US through the Refugee Relief Act of 1953. As I wrote previously, there were over 900,000 in Waffen SS units. Some had been in Wehrmacht line outfits that were re-designed SS by the stroke of a pen. They got new officers and went through additional super intensive training. They were tough units and when we faced them in Normandy and elsewhere, our forces had a helluva time subduing them. In Frankfurt, we had a German-American in our office from the States who had been caught in 1939 on a visit to Germany with his parents. He later wound up in the Wehrmacht, and then lost his US citizenship. He fought on the Russian front and said whenever they were next to a Waffen SS unit, they loved it because they were really tough and the Russians feared them. We were told that Waffen SS vets would not be excluded from immigrating to the US, only those who had been concentration camp guards. We also had a former “Ritchie Boy” in our office, a German Jew who fled to the States in 1938. He went into the Army in WWII and was trained at Camp Ritchie as an interrogator. He was really smart, and of course, hated Nazis and a lot of other Germans. I was doing a Subject Interview (a ten-page question and answer document) on a Waffen SS man one day, and Henry was interviewing his mother. Henry claimed his mother said her son used to tell her about his service at one of the camps. Henry came to me and asked if he could talk with the vet. The first thing he did was ask him to take off his coat and shirt so he could see the tatoo-ed serial number all Waffen SS men had. It was humiliating. Then, he slowly began to interrogate him. Henry, of course, was a native speaker and during the war had interrogated everyone from privates to generals and knew the German military culture inside and out. I sat there fascinated. The guy never broke down or changed his story, but Henry wrote up the case which was processed by the American consulate. We never knew how it came out. Once, I asked a fellow here in my hometown how he wound up in the Waffen SS. He replied, “I was 17, brainwashed by Goebbels like everyone else, and the SS had the best looking uniforms and lots of prestige. I was a stupid kid.” He wound up in the ski troops on the Swiss border, loved the intensive training and swallowed all the propaganda. “You couldn’t challenge those people or you would be sent immediately to the Russian front! Americans have no idea what it was really like in the Third Reich.”

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 29, 2013 @ 1:38 pm

  985. Jim(#984),

    You are erudite. I look forward to your posts and what an education. Thanks.


    Comment by manny adler — April 30, 2013 @ 12:22 pm

  986. Completed Infantry OCS 25 June 1967 and spent four weeks at Fort Holabird for the Basic Intelligence Officer Course. There were 15 members of my OCS class that received MI commissions with orders to Vietnam. June 1967 was when the CIA received funding for the ICEX, later known as PHOENIX, program. We all went on the same plane to Vietnam on 30 August 1967.
    About five were assigned to CICV during our in-processing at the 519th. After lunch, the rest of us were introduced to LTC Hamil for a briefing on our assignments. Hamil told us that we had been selected for an opportunity to earn CIB’s and work with the CIA and Vietnamese counterparts at the District level. He stated that he had openings in all four Corps areas, any volunteers?
    I celebrated Tet 68 in a bunker with SSG Ralph Griest next to the Michelin Plantation.
    later, as the SSO Fort Huachuca, I delivered the message from BG Blakefield, CG Fort Holabird, to MG Latta, CG Fort Huachuca announcing that Huachuca had been selected as the new Army Intelligence Center.

    Comment by Clark Hunt — April 30, 2013 @ 1:11 pm

  987. My previous post 930 & 961. I just located my official diploma from Fort Holabird. It seems that although I arrived 4th July weekend 1965, I did not start class until 19 July 1965 to 10 September 1965. I can not make out the commandant’s signature looks like onord Jr. at he end of the signature. Bruce(?)Fisher school secretary. Anybody remember who the commandant was in this period? Just want to mention that I went to a couple of Oriole games at their old stadium. I believe the tickets were supplied by the USO and the army transported us to the games. The seats were in the Upper deck in left field, that I do remember. Not much mention of the drive-in movie theater in Baltimore. Went with a couple of classmates a couple of times. Did go the Block to see what it was all about. Being a big city boy from NYC I was not impressed, not after being in Times Square(42nd street) many times as a young man. Block could not compare in the wild 60,s.
    Since my posts I have located and chatted with two former Mi types from our time in 502nd MI in Korea.
    Keep the comments coming, it gives me something to do instead of sleeping on the couch watching the evening news.

    Comment by charles goffredo — April 30, 2013 @ 6:53 pm

  988. Concerning the Austrian duty just postwar. Great read is “The Mozart Leaves at Nine” by Harris Green. Used to be in Augsburg in 1962-64 and one of my mates was supposedly in the unit located in Salzburg and said most of the incidents were based on facts. Don’t know but it made my first visit to Wien much fun.

    Comment by bob hammel — April 30, 2013 @ 10:43 pm

  989. Charles Goffredo, I graduated in October 1965 and the Commandant was Major General Charles F. Leonard Jr.

    Comment by bill — April 30, 2013 @ 11:16 pm

  990. Bob, I checked out Mozart Leaves at Nine, used book price at $21.00, published in 1961. What is the main theme of the book?

    Comment by Jim Downs — April 30, 2013 @ 11:27 pm

  991. Ref#989. Thanks Bill. The name was so messed up, I could not make any sense of it. And to Jim Downs, I salute you Sir for your outstanding service to our country and your very vivid memory of your time in MI.

    Comment by charles goffredo — May 1, 2013 @ 12:12 pm

  992. RE: 990. Jim, book is about Maj Jeremy Burton, US Army Security Service (CIC) set during winter of 1946 in Salzburg with all the leftover Nazi problems, dealing with allies and general operations. Mozart is the train like the Orient Express but I forget the stops. Author served in Europe during WW2 and as consultant after the war, still in Europe. He obviously was in the business at some time and this is a great read.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 1, 2013 @ 8:01 pm

  993. About British intelligence WWII. Recommend the Wed. night (April 30 2013) KCTS TV program “Secrets of the Dead”. It exposed recent find at British Archives of dusty and forgotten WWII typed transcripts of wired conversations recorded surreptiously by British intelligence of high ranking German officer prisoners. They were were sequested in comfort in a lovely old home in England by the British Intelligence. The prisoners were treated well so hopefully they would open up to their equals about their expereinces and attitude of WWII. All war gossip between the prisoners was recorded successfully. One big find was knowledge how the German airplanes could zero onto London sites to bomb by guidance of RADIO WAVES, a technology unknown by Allies at that time. Also, the location of the German building rocket site was discussed and recorded and then bombed by Allies. My warning is that graphic films and discussions of the German officers of the atrosities against and termination of Jews sorrowful to see. You can see the program as KCTS has past TV programs on their website to view. Churchill was against the idea of comfort of the officer prisoners at first and went for it for intelligence gathering possibility, and it worked well for the Brits and us Americans.

    Comment by rita schaub range — May 2, 2013 @ 10:35 am

  994. re 993


    Today that treatment would probably be deemed “enhanced interrogation techniques” and not be allowed! I’m glad I was a Holabird-educated interrogator, when the main objective was to gather useful intelligence.

    Best regards,


    Comment by gdmbrd — May 2, 2013 @ 5:41 pm

  995. I got a kick out of your Holabird story. I arrived there in January 1966 after basic training at Ft. Polk, La. I took the counterintelligence course, and learned all about the Soviet intelligence and spy agencies, being the only one in Class B-14X who spoke/read Russian (having taken at year of it at SMU), and wowed all the guys. Holabird, I thought, was college-style teaching an I enjoyed it immensely. Graduated just at the time the first James Bond movie, “Dr. No,” came out, so that wowed my Baltimore girfriend, too. Spent a tour of duty in Baltimore with the 109th MI Group, then transferred to Dallas (my hometown!) with the 112th. We wore civilian clothes, carried badge and credentials (B&C), and investigated military and civilian personnel for TOP SECRET security clearances–all while the infantry guys were sweating it out in Vietnam. God was looking out for me. Just before discharge, I applied for and got a commission as a 2LT (O5442090). At that time, I was an E-6 (staff sergeant; they THROW rank at you in intelligence, trying to keep you in). My fraternity brothers from SMU in Dallas, who were all sweating the draft (I volunteered) and Vietnam. One of them said, “Hey, Calhoun! I thought you were in the Army!” I coolly said, “I am. I’m working right now.” Boy, then they ALL wanted to get into intelligence, so I old them to see the Army recruiter, volunteer, and ask for it; at that time, the Army guaranteed your assignment if you volunteered. Here’s to all my classmates at “the Bird.” God bless, and thanks again for your story.

    John Calhoun
    Fort Collins, CO

    Comment by John Calhoun — May 5, 2013 @ 5:15 am

  996. When I was assigned to the 116th Detachment in the Military District of Washington in June 1954, I was an E-3. One year later I was discharged after only 22 months and still was an E-3. The detachment had a 5,000 case backlog when I arrived, and we were so over-TO&E that no one was being promoted. There were people working in various agencies in DC and the Pentagon who had not received their top secret clearances and were spending their time working in low-profile jobs. Lots of agents and lots of work but no promotions. Different situations for different folks in different times. The Korean War had just ended, and budget cuts were the order of the day.

    Comment by Jim Downs — May 5, 2013 @ 9:08 pm

  997. Promotions were still slow in 1956-7. I served in Korea. We were promoted to E-4 with an occasional E-5 within two years.
    Bernie Thielen

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — May 5, 2013 @ 9:31 pm

  998. Promotions were slow even in WWII for CIC personnel compared to other branches and services. This is one of the reasons they were known as the “corps of indignant corporals”. I got out as an E-4 after 2 years and 9 months in ’57 (and glad to do so).


    Comment by manny adler — May 6, 2013 @ 11:33 am

  999. Pleased to see so many great stories here. I’m looking to get some history and/or anecdotes about the 902nd CIC Detachment / 902nd CIC Group / 902nd Intelligence Corps Group / 902nd MI Group. I’m doing well on the World War II period and have good hints for the early 50s, but it’s a little thin from there until the mid-90s. I would love to start a dialogue with any alumni from the late 50s through early 90s.

    Comment by Brian Jackson — May 9, 2013 @ 1:44 am

  1000. Our 97B40 class in May, 1968 had 58 sent to vietnamese school for 52 wks at Ft. Sam Houston, TX. I got assigned to the 115th MI Grp in California, and one classmate was assigned to the 902nd in the basement of the Pentagon. We corresponded for the first year after Holabird and there was a basic difference in our daily work loads. As around most of CONUS at the time, most of our caseload revolved security clearances cases for aerospace or such workers. Dave, my classmate assigned to the 902nd said most of there work involved investigations concerning persons involved in both the legislative and judiciary bodies of the government in WashingtonD.C. Those were interesting times, as by the time of the Senator Church hearing in 1971 most CONUS work changed.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — May 10, 2013 @ 6:02 pm

  1001. Please, anyone who has some good 902d stories from the late 50s through mid 90s… please drop me a line at brian.e.jackson@us.army.mil

    As and alumnus and history buff, I’m looking for good anecdotes and avenues of research.

    Comment by Brian Jackson — May 10, 2013 @ 11:11 pm

  1002. Re: Msg #982. Jerry, arrived at Bien Hoa in early Nov. 70 after you had left. Assigned to a team down the road from the HQ where I remained until January and then went to HQ up the road where I worked in the S3 section. Flew into Xuan Loc and Vung Tau a couple of times, and also spent a “fun” weekend in Vung Tau.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — May 11, 2013 @ 7:50 pm

  1003. Re: Msg#1002 – Larry, who was with you at the team “down the road”? Was that 3AOX? I have some pics of our “home” would send them to you – need your email address. Our group always went to Vung Tau whenever possible…had some good times down there…the Aussies came to the unit there to do the beer and shrimp on the bar-b…we always drove up to Xuan Loc and Bear Cat. getthere2@aol.com

    Comment by Jerry Smith — May 12, 2013 @ 5:11 pm

  1004. Ref #999. Was assigned to the old 902d MI Group, Bailey’s Crossroads, VA for four years starting in April 1970. Great assignment. I ran polygraphs for the White House Communications Agency as well as other folks. A whole lot of freedom to operate and investigate. Basically had a world wide mission. Our office was the second floor of a shopping center, next to a great bar named the Iron Skillet. Truly the good old days.

    Comment by Don Clifton — May 14, 2013 @ 3:53 pm

  1005. Larry:
    Worked with Jerry Smith at 3AOX in Bien Hoa (my 2nd assignment) until Jerry left in July 1970. I stayed until the end of November 1970—did we meet? Did you know Jonathan Showe or Greg Aultshu? They were Jerry’s and my replacements at 3AOX. Did you know Joe Rutledge, the Captain there?

    Comment by Denny Nix — May 19, 2013 @ 7:48 pm

  1006. Ref Msg 614
    Bob – I glanced through all the postings and you were the only one I recognized from my Holabird class. You said you hoped for some emails but you didn’t give an address. I am at gerry.sand@att.net if you’d like to get in touch. Much of my stay at Holabird is just a blur now. Never thought I would forget any of my Army experience, but time has robbed the memory bank. If you contact me maybe two great minds can work together to recall some things.

    Comment by Gerry Sand — May 20, 2013 @ 7:40 am


    Comment by ben burt — May 20, 2013 @ 8:04 pm

  1008. Keep coming back and reading the posts and memories return. Between 9666 course and return in 1967 for 9668 and Advance Course, I had a time as instructor in the Intel Dept at Oberammergau. We supervised the German Language course on paper and also gave a CI/FO course for several weeks in conjunction with that course and separately for 2 weeks for non-language training agents around Europe; Maj Duke Dufresne, CPT Joe Scalia, LT Jack Hunter and I. We did an exercise in Munich and also a less elaborate one in Garmisch. Talk about great duty and funny experiences. The Personal Meeting exercise where a very experienced TAREX civilian had his contact sitting on a bench in the park in two (unexpected )feet of snow; another watched his DLD serviced from the bottom of a cigarette machine (magnetic box) by a five year old sheltering from a rain shower; and the best where a boy from the country swore his magnetic box was on a frame in front of a warehouse but had never seen a sidewalk elevator (I thought we would need medics as this tale unfolded and the class and instructors finally understood what out country boy did). I have a lot more but these popped up as I watch the Giants battle the Nats. They were good old days at the Bird, in Germany and even a bit in VN. Down one for MI!

    Comment by bob hammel — May 22, 2013 @ 12:00 am

  1009. 239 and 241. I was on that flight too. A backup generator failed as I recall. My assignment was not changed; ops with 524th in Can Tho. As I say I keep going back over these posts. Amazing. 247 also; I was with John Nisley at 24th MID in Augsburg, 1962-63 and kept in touch.
    John passed away last year.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 23, 2013 @ 12:59 am

  1010. Post 35, Gary Clelan. I was born and grew up on Williams Ave, out the old front gate across Dundalk Ave. My cousin still lives on Pine Ave, out the old back gate by the testing racks for jeeps I think. I went to St Rita’a until 8th grade in 1952 when mom married my stepdad (dad was Army pilot killed in tng accident in 1944) and we left for Cleveland. The old house at 112 Williams Ave burned down in about 1990 and two children died. I recall that as my wife and I were visiting from CA and I drove by the old area to see the Bird and the house, which had recently burned down. Sorry for late post but I am finally retired and catching up.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 23, 2013 @ 1:16 am

  1011. Msg #239 Pasquale Valles: you were assigned 525 Bien Hoa, III Corps…were you at HQ-Bien Hoa Army Base or one of the units at Bien Hoa (down the road from HQ), Xuan Loc, Bear Cat or Vung Tau? I was on the Army Base but not at HQ a year before…left in 7/70…any pics?…Denny Nix, Gerry Sand (Msgs #1005/1006) were there also…my address getthere@aol.com
    Jerry Smith

    Comment by Jerry Smith — May 23, 2013 @ 9:41 am

  1012. Msg 1008. Is that the Bob Hammel from 68-A-1 Advanced Course? I was at Holabird in Spring of 1961, Agent Course, and then in 68-A-1 advanced Course. Many good memories.

    Comment by Dick Yates — May 23, 2013 @ 5:51 pm

  1013. 1012. ’tis I Richard, after second retirement from real estate. Holabird to Nam to Germany to Nam to Monterey CA to Berlin to quit in 1981. Here in Monterey since. Drop a line to rhammel@sonic.net

    Comment by bob hammel — May 23, 2013 @ 11:53 pm

  1014. Post 504, Dan Tompkins. I was in the 9666 course and recalled Willie T Brickhouse, ABN, and 1LT when most of us were direct from IOBC and 2LTs. Remember the chopper crash but can’t recall where I was. Willie T was a great guy, always smiling. Sad. I had gotten out of Benning a few days early to attend grandpa’s funeral in Dundalk. Checked back into the Bird late and wanted DLI. Only opening was in Korean so I took it. A few weeks later, opening in Polish came up and I jumped on it. Probably explains my nearly 13 years in Germany and retirement of this Ballmer boy in Monterey.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 24, 2013 @ 5:37 pm

  1015. I have posted on this great site a couple of times. Here is a question I should have asked long ago….anyone here have information on the 588th MID assigned to 5th Special Forces in Nha Trang? How about B57?

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — May 24, 2013 @ 10:43 pm

  1016. Post # 1013/1014

    Bob…..what outfit were you with in Berlin? I was with JROC on Sven-Hedin-Str. from late 60’s until late 70’s. I was there as part of 66th MI Group, 18th MI Bn. – interrogator and spent lots of time at the Notaufnahme Lager in Marienfelde.


    Comment by gdmbrd — May 25, 2013 @ 7:31 am

  1017. 1016-Gary. I was Cdr of OBB from 77-81. Read all your reports and my ops officers took action on some. Located between 766th and SSO in DCSI bldg. Can’t recall your COs name, something with Gs or Js (getting too old). Remember Dick Workman, Nick Meimaris, Homer Nagel? Get me going and I will recall various items.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 25, 2013 @ 4:01 pm

  1018. 1017-Bob. Was Bob Bell still there? I was in FKFT and did a lot of Poly support for OBF, and a couple of exams for your unit. I left in GM in July 1977. Like you I can’t remember some of the names I should. Have a great Memorial Day.

    Comment by Don Clifton — May 27, 2013 @ 8:35 am

  1019. 1018-Don, Bobbie was my best CO and a real blast. The parties he and Sue had were notable. Bad luck Bob passed away so soon after retiring. Dave Swenson was my ops off briefly then he was off to Munich and Nick took over. Rick Hutchison was great skills officer and worked with Bob on one of our hottest ops. I have a “going away” poster with all the names on it and will get it out of its stored away nook for a memory booster! Chick Little was CO in Fkt correct? I decided to pull the pin and he got the 430th job. We were dead contemporaries with same DOR from Ft Benning to the bird to Germany in 62; then later in VN together in 524th in the Delta in 71-72. He wrote my LOM on retirement; I was too worried Carter might be re-elected to stay in.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 27, 2013 @ 6:05 pm

  1020. 1019-Bob. Yes to bad about Bob. I got to know him well after he came to USAFCA at Meade. also knew Dave well. Remember Rick H. as he recruited me. LTC Gee had OBF when I left. I think Gladwin Patrick still had GP when I left. Seems like an eternity ago.

    Comment by Don Clifton — May 28, 2013 @ 1:57 pm

  1021. Gee folks, the acronyms need translation, please.
    From those of us not on the inside thanks.


    Comment by manny adler — May 28, 2013 @ 4:04 pm

  1022. 1021-manny-I will start at 1016, you match them up! Joint Refugee Operations Center-Operational Base Berlin-Special Security Office-Commander or Case Office-Germany-date of rank-Vietnam-Legion of Merit-USArmy Counterintelligence Agency-Group- OK ?

    Comment by bob hammel — May 28, 2013 @ 6:55 pm

  1023. 1017 -Bob Hammel. I was just downstairs from OBB 1977 -1980. My immediate boss was Homer Nagel and the DCSI was Col Chaney when I left in 1980. I was the ODCSI action officer for Dick Workman’s operation.

    Comment by Ed Harris — May 29, 2013 @ 6:24 pm

  1024. 1023-Ed, we must have met in passing. Perry Cowgill was a good friend. Last I heard he retired and built a home on Vashon Island off Seattle. Homer-known to us as Der Schwerg, was a character. Only man I ever knew who won several thousand on the Lotto.

    Comment by bob hammel — May 30, 2013 @ 12:54 pm

  1025. Bob Hammel,

    Thanks for the translation. Was Homer the Zwerg (midget)?


    Comment by manny adler — May 30, 2013 @ 4:23 pm

  1026. This is for 1015 Ron Mahinske. I was assigned to the 513 MI Detachment in Special Forces, in S2 at Nha Trang in 69. I don’t recall any 588 MID. B-57 I do know about. It was at Nha Trang in the Special Forces HQ compound. B-57 was the Project GAMMA headquarters and had its own compound within the SF compound. This group was involved in the Green Beret incident where a triple agent was killed. For more details I suggest you go to Military History Online and look up The “Green Beret Affair”. All the personnel in B-57 were MI.

    Comment by Jim Wiles — May 30, 2013 @ 7:34 pm

  1027. 1026: Thanks Jim. I was with the 588th. We were in the same compound/building with B57. The Montagnards lived in quarters right next to ours. A good read is A Murder In Wartime by Jeff Stein. It tells in detail the story of the triple agent’s killing.

    I was there a couple of years. It’s funny, but in all that time I never knew there was a 513th MI Detachment in the area.

    We went back and forth on assignment between the 588th and B57. Thanks for the response.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — May 30, 2013 @ 10:17 pm

  1028. 1025-Manny you got it!

    Comment by bob hammel — May 31, 2013 @ 3:04 pm

  1029. 1024: Bob, I recall coming upstairs to OBB on several occasion and I am sure we met at some point. If you had any requests for operational support from Dick Workman it would have come thru me.

    Comment by Ed Harris — May 31, 2013 @ 7:32 pm

  1030. Bob Cronin,

    I’d love to ask you some specific questions about your time in the 441st. If you would, please drop me an email at brian.e.jackson@us.army.mil

    Comment by Brian Jackson — June 2, 2013 @ 12:36 am

  1031. Was so happy to find this place. Had so many memories. I worked in the re enlistment office with Sergent Rosser in 1963 and Lieutenant Throne. I met my husband there who was taking the Army Intelligence Course at the time. We were married at the Fort Holabird Chapel. August 3rd we will be married 50 years.

    Comment by Fred and Jean smith — June 2, 2013 @ 4:55 pm

  1032. Has anyone ever run across Carl Liewert? The spelling may be off. He was at the Region 1 HQ of the 113th in Chicago when I met him. Thought he was an extraordinarily dedicated man and a good guy as well. I reported to him until I went to run the FO in Fifth Army GQ in Hyde Park. Happy trails to all you good people who served and serve the country so well.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 4, 2013 @ 2:43 pm

  1033. I was at the Bird from May 66 to Jan 69, 97D40 class, assigned to DODNACC at the Bird. Looking for anyone who might have been permanent party USAINTC during that time. I served as BG Blakefield’s driver, bodyguard, gofer, etc, for about a year. Worked in Ops, did riot duty, went to Chicago twice as spook with the 115th MI. Like to hear from anyone who was there during that period. Anybody remember the day somebody painted a white bra on the sphinx statue out in front of HQ circle? I was driving the General that day and when he spotted it, he just about went ballistic. MP’s, CID, everybody was out front dusting for prints, taking pix, etc. If anybody wants to communicate, just go to my website listed and send me an e-mail.

    SP5 Ronald W Griffith
    Ft Holabird, Md

    Comment by Wayne Griffith — June 5, 2013 @ 10:35 pm

  1034. Regarding # 1032 message above I should have added that he was in Chicago in 1964-65. A very good man and I simply wanted to find out if anyone knows anything about him.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 6, 2013 @ 7:22 pm

  1035. RE: Message # 1033 above. The MI unit in Chicago was the 113th.

    Comment by Bill Yantis — June 7, 2013 @ 4:40 pm

  1036. RE: Message 1035 You are correct, of course. Time dulls memories. I dug out the one remaining envelope of stuff left over from that era and I still have the letter of commendation Col Walker sent back to HQ. Col Walker was a really nice guy. The only other thing that sticks out in my dim memory was that he hated the Pickle Barrel restaurant. He got very tired of dining there, I gathered.
    I am still wanting to hear from some of the guys at DODNACC. We were all merged into USAINTC Operations later on. Some names I remember below:
    PFC Sylvester
    PFC Blue-from Louisiana ?
    SP5 Bob Jenny-from Louisiana (chaplains assistant Holabird-not USAINTC)
    Lauren Andersen or Anderson from Minnesota
    Bill Gollob-New York Married Kathy (A WAC)
    Michael Henning-West Virginia ?
    Paul Knack-BG Blakefield Cook (from Detroit)

    would like to hear from you.


    Comment by Wayne Griffith — June 10, 2013 @ 3:03 pm

  1037. 82nd Aiborne Veteran Here (313th MI BN/deployed Iraq 1990 with 2/325)
    *Met a gentleman yesterday – June 11, 2013 at the Starbucks in Haltom City, TX (Beach Street). I was walking in and out several times as I was changing clothes in the restroom, just having interviewed for a job at a local high school. (I’m an Assistant Principal. **I kept noticing this gentleman’s insignia on his ball cap. Finally I approached him and asked if it was a MI insignia patch. He responded “you’re the first person to recognized this patch since I’ve been wearing it”. I don’t remember his name but believe that he said he was in WWII with an MI unit. He then directed me to this website saying that I’d meet others from the MI family. I wasn’t assigned to Ft Holabird. I was in the Army 1988-1999 with some great MI units. *313th MI BN of the 82nd ABN DIV (deployed to Iraq during Desert Storm), 408th MI and 747th MI in Panama, and 748th MI in San Antonio. Great times with the MI Guys!

    Comment by Ed D. — June 12, 2013 @ 8:42 am

  1038. Re: Msg. 1005–Denny Nix…I am quite positive that I worked with Greg in the unilat team at Bien Hoa. I worked with him until from sometime in Nov. 1970 until Jan. 1971 when I transferred down the street to HQ of 3rd Bn. I can not remember the name of the Lt. that Greg and I worked with. There was also a bilat team that a good buddy of mine was at next door..Mike Rod..who arrive around same time as me and was there for the remainder of his tour. There was a Captain I believe in charge of both teams..think his name was sometime like Sisson? Mike and I used to shoot some hoops as there was a basket in the compound between the hootches.

    Comment by Larry Hamilton — June 12, 2013 @ 8:48 am


    Comment by ben burt — June 12, 2013 @ 4:36 pm

  1040. RE: POST 1039- Ben, my apologies about your time in the service. Was in a hurry and wished I could had talked to you more. “I’ll get down and start knocking them out for this now”. Anyways – thanks for your service Ben and great to meet you- Ed

    Comment by Ed D. — June 13, 2013 @ 8:39 am

  1041. What is the policy on granting clearances on homosexuals these days? I’m curious. I am totally out of touch. In the 1950’s they were denied clearances. Of the 90 agents working in the field in the 116th Detachment in the Metropolitan District of Colombia (it was a big office), it seemed that that 90% of what we did and what we talked about at parties involved gays. One guy joked, “If there were ten percent as many communists in Washington as gays, we would be in imminent danger of overthrow.” I remember that one whole department in the Commerce Department (probably 200 people) was made up of gays. Reciprocal recommendations and recruitment! Whenever we got a lead on someone there, we knew what was going on. One of my buddies had a big case on a high ranking officer in NSA who had been arrested by the DC police vice squad. Soliciting in a public john. He was acquitted in court for insufficient evidence. The agent took me along when he interviewed the judge later. He told us, “I can’t convict someone of such a terrible offense just on the word of a police officer, but I can understanding why you would not give him a top secret clearance in the government.” It did not matter. His clearance was not revoked. One day, I watched through a one-way window at NSA as a polygraph operator examined a young private (who flunked). The operators were all CID, E-7’s and E-8’s. Sadistic guys. Does this stuff still go on?

    Comment by Jim Downs — June 14, 2013 @ 3:04 pm

  1042. I was stationed at the WAC Detachment…worked for USAINTS later USAICS from 1868-1971. Transferred to Ft. Huachuca when to Intel School transferred. It was indeed a very special place…very unmilitary which worked well for me an my friends…we were all confused borderline hippies and draftees. I would love to be in touch with some of those folks,,,Lopez, Wills, Rivers, Oliver….it was the best of time and the worst of times…I love Baltimore

    Comment by Beverly McCormick — June 20, 2013 @ 8:27 pm

  1043. Correction…that was 1968 – 1971…feeling a little old I guess!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by Beverly McCormick — June 20, 2013 @ 8:28 pm

  1044. Beverly (#1042&1043),

    Just curious, how did Holabird differ from Huachuca? Seems like nothing much changed at the Bird from my stay in the mid 50,s and your era.


    Comment by manny adler — June 22, 2013 @ 4:46 pm

  1045. Beverly (1042/43)

    What did the WACs actually do at the Bird? You were there when I came through for the Interrogators course in 1968 and I saw plenty of WACs at the 123 Club and around post, but I had none in any of my classes?

    Speaking of USAINTS……the first time I entered the main gate and saw the arch with USAINTS on it, of course I asked what the acronym meant. Some E-4 at the Orderly Room told me and I was mad! I thought “great. A college degee and the Army thinks I’m so dumb I need intelligence school”. I was an Air Force brat and didn’t know any better!


    Comment by gdmbrd — June 23, 2013 @ 5:38 am

  1046. I remember my arrival at the bird. I had just been through an all day bus ride. you guts from the 50’s remember them. I had been an sad day because of the news about President Kennedy, and his assignation. a festive bus had gone silent. it was a relief actually to get to holabird and some stability. little did I know I had more work lined up for me. because if was just out of basic, the new bunch (us) were chosen not clean and fire the cannon outside headquarters. as I recall we had to do it every 4 hours and then off. that went on for 3 days I believe. it was a sad and sober time in the life of many of us. Some of the ones not detailed to fire and clean the cannon went to dc. it was a short train ride away, all returned shaken and angry. fortunately we were able to turn the anger to resolve, and I am sure all of us became more dedicated to what we were about to do. it certainly seemed to make us more serious about our future.
    those were sad days, probably one of the most profound days in my life, I know I took things more personally, including my training and vowed I would not fail in my quest. I was one of the loneliest kids on the block having never been away from home. following the assignation, next came thanksgiving, and I was still away from home. because of the goodness of the heart of a local family I was able to enjoy a wonderful thanksgiving meal and their company, and take my mind away from the troubles of the world. I know it is a shame to say this, but I don’t even know what class I was assigned to. I know it was a B Class but I don’t know what the number was, I know it was from Dec196/January 1964 thru June 1964. from there I went to Monterey Calif. to DLIC from July 1964 ( I remember because I arrived in Monterey on July 4th 1964) and began language classes almost immediately. completed them in one year and in may 1965 I was of to Korea. From May 1965 to May 1966 I was in Korea, practicing what I had been taught in addition to some other disciplines that had been left off the teaching agenda.
    as they say improvise and learn. well, hope from all this someone can help me to connect thanks. j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — June 24, 2013 @ 11:49 am

  1047. I enjoyed your story about Fort Holabird. Same as you I got off the bus in Baltimore Md. after finishing basic at Fort Gordon Georgia. I had no clue where to go or what to do. I saw 2 soldiers getting into an army vehicle and approached them to as where Ft Holibard was and they offered me a ride as they were there at the bus station on business. They took me to the front door of the place I was to check in. It was the Armed Forces Examining and Entrance Station. (AFEES) All the draftees and enlistments came there. I worked in the preinduction section for 6 months then they transferred me to the enlistment section. I was there from January 1966 and was released from the army there in september 1967. Had a great time there, met many good friends and really enjoyed my 2 years as a serviceman. Would not have missed it for anything.

    Comment by Dan Davis — June 27, 2013 @ 9:12 am

  1048. I was turned onto this site by a fellow “Bird-Man.” Over the past few years, as a Private Investigator by profession, I took on the job of trying to locate those with whom I served at Ft. Holabird and DLISC-El Paso (Vietnamese.) I can report that in 2010 we were successful in locating 20 of our classmates from 68-B-6 at the “Bird.” We were all 97B’s and as a class we all ended up later at DLISC in El Paso for language shcool. (Someone else spoke of going to Korea-that was the Class directly ahead of ours…) Since locating many of them, we have now had two great reuinions-one in San Francisco in 2010 and one in Las Vegas in 2012. More are scheduled. Reading all of these comments brings back many memories…I totally forgot about the sub-shop and the bars on the “Block.” Great memories, keep them up!

    Comment by Russ Haig — June 27, 2013 @ 6:52 pm

  1049. Well, I’ve scrolled through all 1048 posts! Amazing. Scott Weldy #402 I was in the same 97D class in 1968. Graduated in Jan 69 and spent the rest of my 3 years in the 165th MI Co in Frankfurt. My memories of Holabird – that bloody bridge over Colgate Creek was slippery in winter. The Dundalk Dollies – great girls and one became a steady girlfriend while I was there. The steak subs. If anyone is interested I have the graduation program from 15 Jan 69 for classes: 69C4 (mine), 69B502 and 69DO1 listing all student names. You can probably contact me via the monitor as he has my email.

    Comment by Gil Gerhardt — June 28, 2013 @ 11:49 pm

  1050. Anyone out there from the 902 MI Gp, Washington, during the ’64 – ’67 time frame??

    Comment by Dick Yates — June 29, 2013 @ 12:01 am

  1051. I arrived at Ft Holabird in the Spring of 1971 after basic training at Ft Knox. I was part of the last Agent’s class (97B40) from Ft. Holabird. I first had orders to Ft Huachuca (sp?) that were changed prior to leaving Ft Knox. After graduation was assigned to the 66th MI Group and became part of the 5 member EUCOM Support Team at Patch Barricks in Stuttgart. TDY to many interesting places. While at Ft Holabird I was married and lived off base and was only there for the daily activities but I do remember those Dundalk Dollies!!

    Comment by David Hill — June 30, 2013 @ 10:17 pm

  1052. Re: 1046. You brought back some great memories just now. My parents (my dad, a Combat officer with the Big Red One in WWII and my mother, a combat nurse in Europe in WWII, where she met my dad-and who said military romances don’t work)lived close to the 108th MI GP at Fort Devens. They had me bring soldiers, who could not get home, to their house for all of the holidays. Those were some great times. They understood how much you sacrificed when you served. Enjoy Indepence Day-you helped to guarantee it.


    Comment by David Edmonds — July 1, 2013 @ 12:56 pm

  1053. After ending my remarks (1051) and retiring for the night I was thinking back on those many posts before me and, like so many of you, I basic trained at Ft Knox where our every movement was directed and orchestrated and where the term FTA was rooted and tethered to that little 5′ 8″ Drill Sergeant who brought all of us to our knees wishing him less than well. As we all know, there was purpose in that psychological reformation of those 18 to 24 year old minds into an “Army of One”. It was necessary to bring “every mother’s son” to think, move, act and react as one. When we arrived our self awareness and self being was removed by cutting our hair, giving us uniforms, food, beds, showers and everything else necessary to make us look, speak and act the same. We were taught well. And then, arrival at Ft. Holabird where we were, for the most part, “untrained” in all that “military stuff”. Saluting had become an automatic and unthinking action but the first thing we were instructed in at Holabird was that there was no need to salute – for the moment and time we were students who just happened to be wearing uniforms. Two weeks ago I was relating the learning of guitar chords to learning to type. Before arriving at Holabird I had never typed but, as I related to my friend, there was this lady at Fort Holabird who could type 100 words per minute and couldn’t understand why everyone else couldn’t. I have never forgotten her lessons in the 42 years since then. After finishing the 97B40 class we gathered for our orders, most were to report to FPO San Francisco (Viet Nam) while my orders were to Munich. Upon hearing that I asked the Sergeant “Where in North Carolina is that?” I was quickly on my way to Ft Dix for movement to Germany for the next two and one-half years.

    Comment by David Hill — July 1, 2013 @ 8:05 pm

  1054. Re:#1053 David would that have been Mrs. Klicka. A Q space Semicolon P space. I’m only 30 with 40 years experience and I can still hear her voice ringing in my head. I was a lowly 97C. However, I did get assigned to USAINTCA G-2 for my entire career of 3 years. Funny they didn’t have a medal for fighting the battle of Colgate Creek smells.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — July 2, 2013 @ 11:59 am

  1055. Happy Birthday America. And to all Fort Holabird veterans and their families, stay healthy and enjoy the holiday. Hope to see a lot more posts in the future. I enjoy reading and re-reading them all. In the next week or two I am going to have lunch with a fellow soldier from the 502nd MI, Yongsan compound, Seoul. Have not seen him in over 40 years. I will keep everyone posted.
    Sp5 Mister Charlie

    Comment by charles goffredo — July 4, 2013 @ 10:58 am

  1056. Re #1054: Dan, I’m sure that is her but reading some of the earlier posts to this site some have indicated she may have retired at an earlier date. Because they were preparing to close Ft Holabird and send everyone and everything to Arizona they may have asked her to come out of retirement teach those last classes. There is no doubt in my mind it was Mrs. Klicka. 42 years after leaving Ft Holabird I still have several of my instructional and technical manuals!

    Comment by David Hill — July 4, 2013 @ 11:02 am

  1057. Happy 4th of July to all vets, Holabird grads and especially all you 96Cs.

    All the best everyone!

    Gary Miller

    Comment by gdmbrd — July 4, 2013 @ 5:59 pm

  1058. I recall that is KLECKA

    Comment by bob hammel — July 5, 2013 @ 7:05 pm

  1059. I recall that your recall, Bob is right on. I got carried away by the memory of all those keys clicking at Klecka’s direction.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — July 5, 2013 @ 9:47 pm

  1060. Going through the coordinator course in September – October 1965 I had a young attractive black woman typing instructor. I think her name was Robinson.

    Comment by Bill — July 5, 2013 @ 11:25 pm

  1061. Re:1060 I do believe the time frame is almost right for “Hey, Mrs. Robinson …” Hmm that can’t be right. No foreign nationals could take the coordinator course.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — July 6, 2013 @ 5:53 pm

  1062. Ref #1050: Mr Yates, based on your question I assume you were with the Deuce in the mid-1960s. If you’re willing, please contact me at the email address in post #1001.

    Comment by Brian Jackson — July 13, 2013 @ 4:43 pm

  1063. anyone with 502nd Korea 1965-1966 or Fort Deveins spring 1966. please contact at jhbone@att.net or jhbone@vaughnlawfirm.netr j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — July 15, 2013 @ 3:34 pm

  1064. Ref post 1063.. James I just sent you a message on your first listed e-mail address. My other message to the law firm did not go thru. HHC 502nd MI, Yongsan Sept 65 to April 1967.

    Comment by charles goffredo — July 17, 2013 @ 7:29 pm

  1065. Role Call ! A significant slow down of communication for a few weeks folks.

    Do any of you Holabird grads remember a club in Baltimore called “Hollywood Park”. It was somewhere near the old stadium.


    Comment by gdmbrd — July 28, 2013 @ 3:49 am

  1066. Gary (1065),

    No, not really. Permanent party probably were probably less aware than “grads”? Or further along the road to senility?


    Comment by manny adler — July 28, 2013 @ 10:13 am

  1067. Manny (1066)

    I’m just glad to hear from you. I was afraid that the PRISM program might have located all of us, and decided we needed interrogating!

    Glad all is well Manny.


    Comment by gdmbrd — July 28, 2013 @ 11:03 am

  1068. Gary,

    What is the PRISM program?


    Comment by manny adler — July 29, 2013 @ 10:45 am

  1069. Manny,

    PRISM is the program/system the NSA is supposedly using to “listen” to any and everyone. All over the news currently.


    Comment by gdmbrd — July 29, 2013 @ 5:47 pm

  1070. at one time it was called “carnivore” j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — July 31, 2013 @ 4:05 pm

  1071. I recall hearing that name from the guys at Teufelsberg (ELINTS) in Berlin James.


    Comment by gdmbrd — July 31, 2013 @ 4:41 pm

  1072. Hey BILL BELAIS

    I have just found some Troop 486 photos, including our Scoutmaster “change of command” ceremony! Want a copy?


    Comment by Phil Buley — August 1, 2013 @ 3:21 pm

  1073. Lots of 526th 9okinawa

    Lots of 526th (Okinawa) notes re 1964-65. Anyone interested, I can send e-mail with pic of Club Cobean staff having fun at a picnic. Just contact me at dbridges7@ca.rr.com with your request and address.
    Don Bridges

    Comment by don bridges — August 4, 2013 @ 5:04 pm

  1074. Obit in San Diego Union-Tribune for Merold Nyberg, retired CIC agent in 1967, once served in Frankfurt, Germany were he was active in Al Bahr Shrine activities. He lived in San Diego. He obviously was in Region III, 66th CIC, at one time.

    Comment by Jim Downs — August 5, 2013 @ 11:27 am

  1075. Wow, blast from the past. Went through the 96D course in late 1966, definitely a most “un-military” assignment… more like a college dorm, really enjoyed it. On to 15th MIBARS at Ft. Bragg, 525MI/45th MI Co. at Gia Dihn (1967-68) where we were treated to the Tet Offensive, then a tour with 5th Special Forces out of Bien Hoa (1968-69) Also attended the Vietnamese Jump School run by SF Delta, Det. B52 outside of Nha Trang.
    Names I recall, Jerry Birdsall, Mike Sams, Shoop, Billy Moore, Dick Szanik from Hawaii who saw snow for the first time at Holabird. Nic Nichols… Charlie Violett from Maine…

    Comment by Art Kretzschmar — August 14, 2013 @ 7:20 am

  1076. Refpost #284 (yes #284) I have taken to re-read the posts on this site. I was wondering if all is ok because there is a gap in between posts of Aug 5 and today. While reading some of the older posts there is a mention by Frank Stella (post 284) of a Col Elvin Dalton while he was stationed at Fort Holabird. I can tell you that the colonel was one of the finest men and officer that I had the pleasure serving under. He was my CO at the 502nd MI, Seoul Korea , I believe the entire time I was there from Sept 65 to April 67. Working at Bn Hqs I would see him daily and on occasion would drive him on his official business. His SgtMajor was a big man by the name of Stuckey, also a good guy. Just thought I would post this as I check this site often and I love to see new information posted. As previously posted I have re-connected with a fellow soldier from the 502nd after 40 plus years. He was in Company C ,I in HHC but both on the Yongsan compound. He will be attending my American Legion post BBQ this Saturday in Staten Island NY.

    Comment by charles goffredo — August 14, 2013 @ 6:41 pm

  1077. Ref post 1076. Charles do you know if Stuckey then went to Fort Bragg (CONTIC)(1969-1970) as a civilian? In fact is there anyone on this list that was assigned to CONTIC, Fort Bragg during that time?

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — August 16, 2013 @ 6:55 pm

  1078. Ref#1077. Daryl, I believe that I left Korea prior to SGM Stuckey, and I never seen him again. He was a huge man and one time myself and another soldier had to escort him to the infirmary when he had an accident, and I can tell you that it was no easy task helping him in and out of the jeep and into the ER.
    Charles Goffredo

    Comment by charles goffredo — August 16, 2013 @ 7:09 pm

  1079. Charles,
    The Stuckey I remember was very large with a flattop haircut. He was a department of the Army civilian during 1969-1970 but did act like a SGM. Good guy but grumpy at times. May have been the one you knew??

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — August 20, 2013 @ 2:03 pm

  1080. Daryl. Your description sounds like him. I forgot about the flattop haircut
    Charles goffredo

    Comment by Charles goffred — August 20, 2013 @ 5:56 pm

  1081. Got to Holabird in 68 right out of basic at Ft. Jackson. Went thru 96d course and wound up in 1969 in Nam with the 1st aviation brigade, 73rd surveillance airplane company in beautiful Vung Tau for a few months and then with them for the move to Long Than North. We read out imagery from Mohawks.

    Comment by Barry rostholder — August 20, 2013 @ 10:51 pm

  1082. Ref#1081. Barry, did you work with Special Agent Eugene Reed. He did Mohawks work at that time and came back to CONUS in 1969. Retired.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — August 21, 2013 @ 12:57 pm

  1083. I was at the bird in late ’70 and early ’71. Graduated from 97D coordinator class, then went to staff and faculty with ACD Advanced Course Department. Was on the advance party team with the relocation of Holabird to Ft. Huachuca. Went to 97B course there. Then name was changed from USAINTS to USAINTC/S which only added the term Center/School. Worked with the ACD again, sent to Vietnam, assigned to 525th MI Group, 575th MI Detachment, MACV-SID. I have a few pictures of the old Holabird, including a formation in front of barracks with raising of the flag, about mid 1960’s.

    Comment by Danny Butler — August 23, 2013 @ 10:35 am

  1084. Ref.#1042 Beverly McCormick, I was there during that time. Do you remember a Dyann Thiel or a Sgt. Medina? I was with the Advanced Course Department, and worked with Medina.

    Comment by Danny Butler — August 23, 2013 @ 10:46 am

  1085. re post 1076-col Dalton was dept of area studies(das) dept director while I was assigned to that dept at the school at holabird. I was there 64 til I ets july 67. I thought he was there the entire time I was there but I may be wrong. he was terrific, we all played volleyball at lunch together. his dep director was ltc tom hessler and maybe he took over partway thru my time, I forget, but they were both fine men.

    Comment by frank stella — September 2, 2013 @ 10:59 pm

  1086. What a great website. Read about half the posts and found most grads from the Bird are ’60’s and ’70’s. Aren’t many ’50’s left these days. I’m 85, so many of my class mates from Group B168,3Mar52, to 3Jul52 are probably deceased. Still have my diploma framed and on the wall in my den. Rummaged around the shelves in the garage and found all my old school manuals, notes, graduation notice and assignments. Most important, the complete list of all my classmates names and addresses at the time. 42 of us graduated PMOS 1301(Counter Intelligence Agent) 10 were RA’s the rest draftees.
    Would like to communicate with B168 guys if you are out there and have seen this site.Thank all of you for your service ladies and gentelmen. Louis Edward Francois Jr.

    Comment by Louis Edward Francois Jr. — September 4, 2013 @ 6:51 pm

  1087. re post 1085 Frank thank you for responding to my post about Col Dalton. I was curious to find out more info on this gentleman so I googled his name. There is a wealth on info on him, including his induction into the Intell Hall of Fame. On a sad note he passed away on 11/4/2003. His obit contains most of his assignments thru out his career, including mention of his commanding the 502nd in Korea while I was there. His service included wwll at Normandy. May he rest in peace. Thanks again frank for responding, I appreciate it when I can make contact with my fellow Holabird alumni.

    Comment by charles goffredo — September 4, 2013 @ 7:13 pm

  1088. louis (#1086):
    A few of us are “hanging on”. A hHappy New Year to all our “postees” of the Jewish faith and thank you for pulling so many KP’s over Christmas.


    Comment by manny adler — September 5, 2013 @ 1:18 pm

  1089. Drafted Jan 25, 1951 age 23, Infantry basic Ft Riley, Feb-May. Ft Holabird May – Oct 51, Agent Training then safecracker school. Went to 111th CIC with assignment to the Atlanta Field office. there were 4 old timers there. I was married before I was drafted. A married agent was needed there to replace some guys who were retiring. I was in the Atlanta office from Oct 51 till separation in Jan 53, traveled North Georgia mostly. New agents rotated through the office for training prior to further assignment. There were only 6 regulars in the office. I have lost contact with the guys there. The ones my age (86) have passed on. About a week before separation 2 of us were called into the Old Man’s office. We were offered direct commissions as 1st Lts if we would sign on for 5 more years of active duty. Shepard a 6 year man accepted. My wife said no Honey, lets go back to the farm in Nebraska. A couple of us were offered positions with the FBI in their new counter intelligence division. I lived off base at Holabird on Brentwood Ave. I lived on Avon Ave in Atlanta.
    We were told that there were only 2,000 Agents in the army that were doing civilian assignments. I never did get back my dog tags or uniforms.

    Comment by Gene Chamberlain — September 13, 2013 @ 5:06 pm

  1090. Hello Fellow Birdman and Birdwomen,

    I was at the Bird in 68′ for Agent Course in ’68 and for the Photo Intell Course in ’70 before shipping out to the 502nd MI Bn in the ROK. I was the only true Baltimorean in my classes and remember alerting all of the guys to the great clubs in B’more.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander – September 14, 2013

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 14, 2013 @ 9:27 am

  1091. Welcome Phil (1090)!

    I was at the Bird in ’68 too – Interrogators Course.

    I went downtown a lot back then. Remember Judges and Hollywood Park – great clubs. I think it was Judges that had a slide in it?


    Comment by gdmbrd — September 14, 2013 @ 4:56 pm

  1092. Hi Gary,

    Thanks for your comments. Yes, Judges on Greenmount Ave. did have the slide. I remember going there before I was 21. My favorite spot was the Rhapsody Club on B & A Blvd. Great sounds and a great place to meet women. Individuals that I knew from the Maryland area that have connections to the Bird include: Smith, Prouser, Bianchi, Thompson, O’Connell, Kohler, Simms, and “Ditt”. Flash Gordon, Catonsville AFRS, was my Army Recruiter. Unfortunately, we lost him during the war. Today, Ft. Holabird is less than a shadow of its former self. The only building left is the Officers Open Mess. It is now occupied as a private club by the VVA Chapter 451. Their address is 6401 Beckley St., Balto, MD 21224. They have a site on the web. If you want a tour of what is left, go on Google Maps and key in their address. I read recently, where the manager of the establishment indicated that about 2 former Birdmen stop by each week to inquire concerning the whereabouts of the rest of our beloved fort. Clearly, we need some stronger connection to our past, as most of us are now in our sixties and even older. Maybe, a creation like this could be known as the “Fort Holabird Alumni Association” or the “Friends of Fort Holabird”. If you have any ideas, I am also on LinkedIn.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 15, 2013 @ 11:35 am

  1093. re post 1090

    Hi Phil,

    What was your Agent Class number?

    Ken Robinson

    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 15, 2013 @ 4:43 pm

  1094. Hi Ken,

    I haven’t a clue.


    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 15, 2013 @ 6:54 pm

  1095. Hi Ken,

    I did further research and found my Graduation Exercise pamphlet. My Agent Class was 69-B-16.


    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 16, 2013 @ 7:44 am

  1096. Phil,

    Your name rang a bell for some reason. I thought we might have been at the Bird in the same time frame, but my class was 68-B-20. We graduated in Oct. 1968.


    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 16, 2013 @ 10:36 am

  1097. Ken,

    How did you like your experience at Fort Holabird and in Baltimore?


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 16, 2013 @ 2:02 pm


    Comment by ben burt — September 16, 2013 @ 2:16 pm

  1099. Phil,

    Loved Holabird. I don’t know why the Regular Army let it exist. It was the opposite of every way they operated. The only thing I can think of is that the rest of the Army didn’t know the place existed.

    I didn’t spend any real off duty in Baltimore. I saved my meager PFC’s pay and went home to Pittsburgh every week end. I know more about Baltimore from watching “Homicide” on TV than from the months I spent at Holabird.


    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 16, 2013 @ 7:52 pm

  1100. Ken,

    Ditto for many of us “permanent party” ersatz soldiers.


    p.s. If we had an alumni association we could real reunions like the real soldiers, Could we be called “The Birdbrains?”

    Comment by manny adler — September 17, 2013 @ 5:27 am

  1101. Manny, Ken, and Ben,

    Is a reunion even practical? How many of you live in driving distance to Baltimore for a lunch get together? I have been a lifelong Holabirdofile. I was crushed when they bulldozed most of th fort in the early 70’s. imagine a post of 5000 souls, 60 percent of them active duty military. Originally, all we got out of it was the Holabird Raquet Club, a brand new building, that never caught on and was also eventually bulldozed. For many years, the USAINTC building held on. However, after about 30 years, it was eventually broken into and vandalized and then leveled. The 2 buildings where the Criminal Investigations Command was located where vacated and ultimately destroyed by a suspicious fire. The jeep test track has been landscaped into a park like setting. I could go on and on based on a file of newspaper clippings that I’ve kept over the years from the local paper, the Dundalk Eagle. The local historical society has extensive archives on the fort. It is located on Shipping Place in Dundalk’s village center.
    Phil Ostrander
    Lifeflong Baltimorean

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 17, 2013 @ 8:30 am

  1102. I’m too far away to buzz down for a lunch and I don’t think a planned full blown reunion would work. Holabird is physically gone. What would we visit? I just tried to find the location on Google Earth. All I could find was a Ft. Holabird Park and nothing in the area looked familiar. Remember, most of us were there for 4 or 5 months forty or more years ago.

    What would be nice is reading those newspaper articles and the documents in the historical society. Do you know if their records are available through the internet? After all, now Holabird and our time there lives in our minds


    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 17, 2013 @ 11:16 am

  1103. Hi Ken,

    I’m enjoying reading of your postings. I know that you guys are spread all over the country. I also know that there is not much left of the old fort. I particularly liked where you indicated that Fort Holabird lives on in our minds. No one can take away our best memories. However, there are still those of us who make the pilgrimage back just to see what remains. Also, I remember in just about every class, there was always at least one guy that met and married a gal when he was assigned here. Her family members most likely still reside here. So, there is always a hope that we might still get a small quorum of guys together. I will do some research with the local historical society and let you know what I come up with.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 17, 2013 @ 1:53 pm

  1104. Ken,

    The Dundalk Historical Society has just launched its web page this month, however, there is nothing on it about Fort Holabird. It’s address is: http://www.dundalkhistory.org. At the same time, I called their number and spoke to their president, Jean Walker. She told me that they had quite a number of newspaper articles and photographs in their paper archives about the fort. Unfortunately, one has to request information from their website via a Research Request. Copies cost 25 cents a piece plus postage. I spoke with her for about 15 minutes and wound up getting an invitation to speak before the society at an upcoming meeting on the history of the post.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 17, 2013 @ 4:21 pm

  1105. Phil,

    Someone should write a book about Ft. Holabird and the Army Intelligence community. Most people never heard of Holabird or us. That includes the rest of the military even when Holabird was active.

    Thanks for the information. Good luck with your lecture.


    Comment by Ken Robinson — September 17, 2013 @ 5:13 pm

  1106. For twelve months in 1954-55 I ran background cases in Washington DC. There were 90 other agents in the 116th who did the same thing. Big office. Security was so tight at the NSA, Army Map Agency, some areas of the Pentagon, and other places that I can not imagine anyone getting through the gate like this guy at the Navy yard just did. What has happened? They used to run a National Agency Check on all security applicants — FBI, local police files at all former residences, HCUA, etc. In many cases the employee was given some menial work to do until his full background check was completed. In DC, that often took a year. When I arrived there in June 1955, there was a 5,000 case backlog. Executive Order 10450 was in full swing. Guys like Manning and Snowden never would have been cleared.

    Comment by Jim Downs — September 17, 2013 @ 7:58 pm

  1107. A note about Fort Holabird books, history and pictures:
    There are three very good books with pictures of the BIRD, 1950s, 60s, early 70s. The books are part of the Army Lineage Series, written by John Patrick Finnegan. They can be purchased on the inter net and can be found at some libraries. The first book is “Military Intelligence” 437 pages. There’s also “Military Intelligence A Picture History”,195 pages and “The Military Intelligence Story, A Photographic History”, 153 pages. There are a few Holabird photos in all three books and the CIC-MI history is a nice read. There’s also a Fort Holabird alumni page on Face Book that includes pics.

    Comment by RF — September 18, 2013 @ 7:45 am

  1108. Ken

    You are so right about publicity about the fort and its history. As of about one year ago, even the veterans group who owns the officers open mess building said nothing about the 30 year MI presence on their web page.


    Thanks for your information about past relevant books about the Bird. At least our history is not totally ignored.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 18, 2013 @ 1:36 pm

  1109. Phil and Ken,

    You are so correct about very few army folks much less others having heard about Holabird or its purpose. I guess we are orphans. As far as reunions, again correct. Too few to scattered and to old (did I get all the “too” and “to’s” in the rights places. The only way this might work if all intell as well as Holabirdians were included (and perhaps Huachucans as well)?

    I enjoy the posts and yes it is a limp and shuffle down memory lane.


    Comment by manny adler — September 18, 2013 @ 3:32 pm

  1110. Jim (1106),

    Snowden and Manning and how about the “good” Major Hasan.


    Comment by manny adler — September 18, 2013 @ 3:35 pm

  1111. Ken, Manny, Jim, and RF,

    After all of this gloomy talk about our old memories about Fort Holabird and the lost MI Bn, I thought it might be a good time for some levity. My wife just purchased a birthday card for her kid brother who is turning 56 (oh to be 56 again.). It reads as follows: 2 guys your age go out to the bars at 10 on a Saturday night. One has 6 beers while the other has 3 beers and 2 shots of Jack. Who gets hammered first? Response: No one your age is out partying after 10 p.m.

    Tajeon Warrior
    FayetteCong Trooper

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 18, 2013 @ 4:05 pm

  1112. Hi Y’all,

    In my complementary close in my last post, I should have said FayetteCong Hunter, not Trooper. The FayetteCong were indigenous personnel we were warned about when I was stationed at Fort Bragg, NC. The city adjoining our base was Fayetteville. This editor regrets the error.

    FayetteCong Hunter

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 18, 2013 @ 6:48 pm


    Comment by james h. bone — September 19, 2013 @ 3:08 pm

  1114. Ref1113 James, well said. I tried to reach you on your listed email addresses, but no luck. I can be reached at mrg723@si.rr.com. 502nd MI Bn sept 65 to April 67, HHC Yongsan compound. Please contact if you want to bs a little about the 502nd.
    SP5 Mister Charlie

    Comment by charles goffredo — September 19, 2013 @ 7:22 pm

  1115. I was stationed at the Bird from 0ct. 65 until Jan. 66 (97D Course) and from Jan 68 to May 68,(97B course) love to hear from anyone who might remember me. I am also trying to locate a Mary Tilman who was also stationed at the Bird as permenant Party.

    Comment by Bill Morrissey — September 20, 2013 @ 10:59 am

  1116. Ref 1115 Morrissey. Were you an E-5 in the agent class?
    Gordon Cooper

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — September 20, 2013 @ 5:48 pm


    Comment by ben burt — September 24, 2013 @ 4:19 pm

  1118. well, I guess the best thing we can say about our job, is that if we did it well no one else would know we were or had ever been there. j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — September 26, 2013 @ 1:46 pm

  1119. Ref.#1117

    Ben that was one heck of a ride considering 4 days to get there and 1 travel day back to the bird! Your butt must have ready for re-surfacing! The time constraint makes it more impressive, Kudos.
    Ed (187)

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — September 26, 2013 @ 7:05 pm

  1120. Ben, As I remember, a 250 only went about 60 at best. I had a 30 day furlough from basic and had to wait 30 days working in the school basement before I could begin the agent class all cuz I was not 21 yrs of age. So when I left the bird I really did’nt know much about the army , it all just seemed an extention at the university. I lived in southern california and took military hops to get to Holabird, so I can’t imagine a 250 going that far. We were all so lucky.


    Comment by Gordon Cooper — September 26, 2013 @ 8:49 pm


    Comment by ben burt — September 26, 2013 @ 11:12 pm

  1122. Super great website.

    Comment by John Washington — September 30, 2013 @ 8:24 pm

  1123. 1115, Morrissee: I remember you as one of the returning vets as most of us were E-2’s out of boot camps. There were three E-5’s to E-7 marines in our class. Most everyone went onto that 52 week vacation in Texas for language before moving on to Nam. I was the one who attended class but mostly ran before and after school and later sent to the services track team in Los Angeles.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — September 30, 2013 @ 9:20 pm

  1124. I was stationed at Ft Holabird from Feb 69 to April 71.Beverly Mc Cormcik was one of my best friend I am
    glad that I found her she from Pittsburg Pa. GO PIRATES//I would like to know what happened to all my
    friends from the WAC Detachement Irene Rivers,LOPEZ,OLIVER,ect//// this was a great group of girls that have fun and work together. I am keeping in touch with CARMEN ZABALA and ANN DASSATT. CARMEN MEDINA
    i remember her,chyryl muto ect/// I work in the mailroom and the library at USAINTS i love that joj.
    i work with MRS KLECKA a great lady and wrote to me every month i still have her letters. mac give a call
    or write so we keep in touch.i love my job/// my first
    movie was the night of living dead and rivers and mac
    scare the hell out me.please happy memories to all of you.happy halloween TERESA BATTLE///////////////

    Comment by Teresa Battle — October 1, 2013 @ 12:03 pm

  1125. One of the “old-timers” at Holibird. Arrived from Camp Blanding, FL Oct. ’45 and transferred to 470th in Panama Canal Zone in Jan ’46. Had an introductory course in Japanese and then sent to a Spanish speaking country, where I operated in plain clothes, private car and private quarters. I recall the “Tooterville Trolley” and marching with cadence and whistles at the gals at the stop. Discharged in Dec. 1946. Great memories and enjoyed this site. Thanks.

    Comment by Ralph L. Crowell — October 15, 2013 @ 11:33 am

  1126. Ralph(#1125),

    Welcome aboard (the “Tooterville Trolley??”). How did you swing a one year, two month term of enlistment (draft)? Good show.


    Comment by manny adler — October 15, 2013 @ 5:13 pm

  1127. I googled the name of a former colleague and found this goldmine of memories. Federal Yeast and Collgate Creek were my memories from Oct 65 to May 66. I was in the B-14 class afternoon shift. I worked in the Central Clearance facility and the Reserve Finance center while waiting for class.
    We had a SFC (polish name) who could not speak or write standard English as our class leader for about four weeks. He was replaced by a Marine E-6, Jim A- who kept us guessing when he gave us orders in Marine speak.
    I spent most of my career in Europe and recognized many of the names mentioned in prior comments. Thanks for the memories.
    bob dukelow – now gardening and writing fiction in Gilbert AZ

    Comment by bob dukelow — October 17, 2013 @ 9:59 pm

  1128. Any and All of you,

    Have any of you by chance been watching “The Nazi Hunters” on the MILITARY HISTORY channel? So far not a mention of the CIC’s role (the OSS,CIA, etc., no CIC). Didn’t they do the bulk of the work after WWII? Any ideas folks.


    Comment by manny adler — October 18, 2013 @ 3:32 pm

  1129. Searched for information on Ft. Holabird and found this site. A great read. I was at Holabird following induction into the Army at Upper Marlboro, MD. This would have been in August 1968. It was here while washing windows and waiting for an assignment to Basic training that a SGT asked if I wanted to take a test to see if I was qualified to attend OCS. After only a few days in the Army washing windows and picking up buts, I jumped at the chance. From Holibird I went to Ft. Bragg, NC for basic training and then to Ft. Sill, OK to become a Fire Direction Officer. After almost a year I was given an OCS class date at ft. Belvoir, VA for Engineering OCS.

    Comment by Bill Wahl — October 22, 2013 @ 1:17 pm

  1130. Discovered your site a couple of days ago, it brought back a flood of memories. I arrived at Holabird in December of 1965 and graduated from the 96B20 analyst course on March, 4 1966. After graduation I was assigned to Headquarters Company USAINTC and spent the rest of my service at Holabird reviewing case files. I arrived a private and departed a SP5. Major John Kenyon was our company CO and First Sergeant Allen was, besides our company First Sergeant, our nemesis (although easily outwitted). As others on this site have recalled I remember the bouncy bridge over Colgate Creek, the smell that emanated from the nearby Federal Yeast factory, the WWII Jeep test hill, the Harley House (home of the “Harley Burger”) and the Holabird Inn (both were my go-to eateries when the 110 Mess Hall was serving something I didn’t like), the four big Seagram’s whiskey aging warehouses on the other side of Dundalk avenue and the wooden trestle railroad bridge whose tracks lead right to them. I have many fond memories of “The Bird” and the friends I served with. Other then memories I still have my uniform with the gray, blue and yellow USTAINTC sleeve insignia, a couple of my USAINTS lesson handouts, USAINTS graduation certificate, USAINTC pass and meal card, and three 8 by 10 photos of myself and other members of our company taken by a base photographer during our annual IG inspection. In 1978 I made a trip back to Holabird but by then it was abandoned, overgrown with weeds and mostly torn down, although I did manage to take pictures of some of the remaining buildings, including the headquarters building in front of which was just the base of our MI Corps symbol, the golden lady sphinx. I would often walk down Dundalk avenue to see a movie at the Strand theater in the Dundalk shopping center and that was still there in ’78, but so much had changed even then. My best wishes to all who served at “The Bird”. Keep her memory alive!

    Comment by Terry Sandman — October 23, 2013 @ 4:16 pm

  1131. Terry,

    Thanks for the post.


    Comment by manny adler — October 24, 2013 @ 5:19 am

  1132. Does anyone remember an officer of high rank being demoted to private and working as a janitor in the basement of the school. I forget the sergeant- major who ran the school when I was working there in Jan 1968 waiting to turn 21 so that I could start the course. The seargent major told me to stay clear of the older private as he was nearing retirement. Of course like everything else about Holabird, what was true or not was always in question!

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — October 24, 2013 @ 5:54 pm

  1133. I believe sergeant major O’Rourke was there around that time.

    Comment by Bill Leach — October 24, 2013 @ 11:20 pm

  1134. I served at Holabird from 69-71. I worked in the Command building basement in the Badges and Credentials office; was a 97D. Those few years were a wonderful time for me. So many of the ‘staples’ of that place are as clear as a bell from reading about your memories: that bouncing bridge, the ‘creek’ by the WAC detachment, the trestle that we weren’t supposed to walk on, the pool, etc. The stench of the creek got to us so we finally moved to the little apartments about the bar on the corner of Holabird and Dundalk. What a view! I had no idea all of this info was here; so many great things to read about and remember. Thanks for putting it all together.

    Comment by Dianna Brewster — October 26, 2013 @ 8:43 pm

  1135. Jerry Smith (#982) gave me this site. Steve Schein (#153), Larry Hamilton (#292), Denny Nix (#1005) have a few things in common. All of us served in RVN with 3rd Bn, 525 MIG and our tours overlapped. I got to Holabird, Jun 69 via Ft. Dix (Jul-Nov 69, BCT and AIT Infantry), .Ft. Belvoir (Jan-Jun 69, Engineer OCS). I completed the Tactical Intel Course (MOS 9301) Jul 69. My punishment was assignment as a BCT training officer at Ft. Polk (Aug-Dec 69). I served in the 3rd Bn Jan 70-Jan 71). Among my duties I can speak about, I served as S1, pay master and ban man. I ended by active duty as Deputy G2, Ft. Dix. Jerry and I connected earlier this year by email. I also connected by phone with Dave Hoster, who was S4 for the 3rd Bn. Cheers to my MI brothers. IHOR (Iggi)

    Comment by Ihor Husar — October 29, 2013 @ 11:47 am

  1136. I was at the Bird from Jan 66 to April 66 in the agent class. At that time the unofficial reading list, other than Play Boy, contained a book called “Pardon Me You Are Stepping On My Cloke and Dager” any way that is what I remember it being called. Does anyone else remember this and am I correct on the mane. Cant remembe a thing that was in it but on reading some of the posts on the site it just poped into this old rusty mind.

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — November 1, 2013 @ 3:02 pm

  1137. (1136) I remember reading the book. Very funny account of the author’s OSS training and assignments. Supposed to have been based on true events.

    Comment by Don Clifton — November 1, 2013 @ 3:47 pm

  1138. This lady Mrs Klecka was FT holabird everypne knew her. Wondelful lady i work for her and i enjoy her company. This site about Ft holabird is very educative and please anyone in chart of this site please send Beverly Mc Cormick my e-mail address or have her to write in here a note to me. HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO YOU ALL LOVE TERESA//////////

    Comment by Teresa Battle — November 3, 2013 @ 12:48 pm

  1139. God bless all those Marines who saved our lives. Happy Birthday USMC.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — November 10, 2013 @ 10:34 am

  1140. God Bless all fellow Holabird graduates and Intel Brotherhood on this Veterans Day!


    Comment by Gary — November 11, 2013 @ 2:46 pm

  1141. God Bless all fellow Holabird graduates and Intel Brotherhood on this Veterans Day!

    Comment by Gary — November 11, 2013 @ 2:47 pm

  1142. Here’s to all fellow Holabird graduates and Intel Brotherhood on this Veterans Day!

    Comment by Gary — November 11, 2013 @ 2:49 pm

  1143. Happy Veterans Day to all of you!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2013 @ 5:22 pm

  1144. Checked in at this site (187) exactly 4 years ago today. A great find of my Holibird associates and their comments. May all of you enjoy this Veterans Day.

    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 11, 2013 @ 7:30 pm

  1145. Although not specifically about Fort Holabird, google both ACICV and NCICA for CIC information.
    Bernie Thielen [1956 at Holabird]

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 11, 2013 @ 8:16 pm

  1146. Good day Bernie, when is the next get together with the OC group?

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — November 12, 2013 @ 1:08 am

  1147. To all my fellow Holabird grads and all others in the Brotherhood of Intel……
    Happy Veterans Day


    Comment by Gary — November 12, 2013 @ 2:24 pm

  1148. Gordon, Dec. 7 at Stan’s house. He wanted your e-mail address after your Katella Deli attendance. Get details at: stan83@live.com

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — November 12, 2013 @ 7:38 pm

  1149. Great stories about “The Bird”.. stumbled on this web site and have been reading for two hrs straight!
    Was at Ft. Holabird from 3/69 to 8/69 as a 97B40.
    WO4 John Connolly was an instructor along with actors
    Peachy Keen and Peter Poor..
    Fond memories….Holabird Inn and next store another
    beer and crab joint..we called Sleazy´s bar….simply because it was so run-down.
    Peter Mather was in my class and had a famous relative
    Cotton Mather.Pete was from LA and had attended UCLA…
    have been trying to find him since military service.

    Also, I was stationed at 108th MI Hqts
    Fort Devens, Ma from Aug 69 thru Apr 71.
    Does anyone remember Andrew Anderson, Kevin Malloy,
    Ken Murphy, Dennis Kriebel, Jim Edwards?
    Also, 1Lt. Anderson, Cpt Bateman, LtC Catalano,
    Maj. Thrasher
    If anyone knows these gentlemen or their whereabouts
    pls contact me at burnskng@gmail.com.

    Dennis Burns

    Comment by Dennis P Burns — November 15, 2013 @ 6:41 pm

  1150. I was at Holabird from Jan 64 to June 64. Came straight from Camp Lejeune along with two other Marines Holabird was a huge improvement over Lejuene. Went through the image interpretation course, then was made a company clerk. Had a great time, learned a lot, never used any of it.

    Comment by Tom Rosdick — November 21, 2013 @ 3:20 pm


    Comment by ben burt — November 25, 2013 @ 9:58 pm

  1152. My husband was at Ft. Holabird from 52-53. If you knew him, please share your stories.

    Comment by Edward Perry — November 30, 2013 @ 10:55 am

  1153. My husband, Edward Perry was at Fort Holabird from 1952-53. If you knew him, please share your stories.

    Comment by Edward Perry — November 30, 2013 @ 10:58 am

  1154. I was stationed at the Crime Records Center (CIDC-CRC) from 1989 -1992- Desert Storm. I was the NCOIC of the Crime Records Center and worked for Bill Slunt. I had the opportunity to work for Mr. Brisentine one of the first polygraph officers in the Army. Ft. Holabird is now home to the Criminal Investigative Service and the Crime Records center.

    Comment by Mattox — December 1, 2013 @ 2:07 pm

  1155. This site came up while I was doing a Google search related to my “formative years” in Bremerhaven, Germany, and it has given me some new insight to my father’s military career. Unfortunately, my father passed away almost 30 years ago, at the age of 60, about 17 years after he retired from the Army. His name was Robert Jacobs (“Jake”) and he was at Fort Holabird from December 1956 through December 1958. We moved to Dundalk from Monterey, after he finished a year at the language school (Russian). As others have mentioned, his military records, from enlistment in the Marines (1941-1946), Army reserves (1946-1950) and regular Army (1950 to 1967) are less than “thin”… only three pages. When I was a teenager at the DOD school in Bremerhaven I was told by a classmate’s high-ranking father that “there is no Fort Holabird in Maryland, you must mean Fort Meade”. In December 1959 we moved to Tucson where my Dad was a student at the University of Arizona (something to do with electrical engineering?). That was followed by six weeks living in a trailer in the desert at some mysterious place called Fort Huachuca that we were told about but never saw. In September 1960 my Dad left for Germany (Oberursel) and then in December of that year, despite a ban on dependent travel instituted by Eisenhower, the family joined him in Bremerhaven. We were there a total of six years (with an 18-month break stateside when he was a “resident agent” in California). Many of the “guys” in his unit (I remember the 513th, 66th CIC, but that’s it) in Bremerhaven were younger than my Dad so maybe some of them are still around. All we knew back then was that daddy didn’t wear a uniform, went away from home frequently for no apparent reason, and carried a gun in a shoulder holster. The guys he worked with referred to themselves as “spooks” and when we left Germany he was given a hand-carved statue of a “cloak and dagger” figure, which Mom called “the spook”.

    On a personal note, I now wonder if “Miss Klecka” was behind his insistence that I learn to “touch type” at the age of 11…by the time I was 13 I could type over 100 WPM and it was a skill that has proven to be immensely useful over the past five decades!

    Comment by SUSAN JACOBS — December 4, 2013 @ 11:35 am

  1156. happy holidays to you wonderful people,keep on writing,very interesting site,MARRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR 2014///////

    Comment by Teresa Battle — December 6, 2013 @ 1:36 pm

  1157. Just re-read first year’s posts. Very nostalgic. Recently tried to describe the bird to some civilians. They thought I was just some old guy gone delusional. One of my life’s most unique experiences. I know many of you cherish them as I do. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and anything else you celebrate too.

    Comment by Dave — December 13, 2013 @ 1:24 pm

  1158. Teresa(#1146),

    And the same to you and all our “postees” (or is it “posters”?). Postees sounds like a cereal and posters aren’t people. OK analysts, ago to work.


    Comment by manny adler — December 13, 2013 @ 5:16 pm

  1159. Holobird
    After basic training I was given a short leave. After Leave I drove from home in New Jersey to Fort Holobird and parked my car outside the fort. I was still in basic training mode and did not know whether I could have a car at the school. To my delight the admissions sergeant asked me if I had a car and gave me a decal for parking on post. The entire cadre at Holobird was friendly and helpful to the students.
    On the first day of classes we marched in formation over the bridge over Colgate Creek. We tried to bounce that bridge as high as we could from then on and from then on our nickname for Fort Holobird was “college on the Colgate.” Our first typing class was on that first day of classes. That woman, who looked like a sweet old grey-haired lady, was very serious about typing and typewriters. Some of us were more afraid of her than the other instructors. Periodically they put us on fatigue duty on Saturday. We policed the fort and occasionally moved furniture or painted. They warned us to stay a certain distance from the CRF (Central Records Facility) fence. Mostly I remember studying hard and gathering a large amount of information. They strongly emphasized security and secrecy.
    A short time after I arrived at Fort Holobird they called me in for a re-interview. Three men in suits watched me closely and said that there was no record of my having worked at a company that I had listed as having worked for during two summers in high school. I was very frightened. I saw myself in fatigues in some awful place for the next three years. We discovered that the agent had gone to the wrong building. The company maintained two buildings in that town. One was an office building and the other was a warehouse on the other end of town. I gave them the correct address and heard no more about it. That is how I became aware that the army was very serious about background investigations.
    For the first seven weeks of our course we were fifty students. On the 8th week we were forty-nine. They never told us what had happened. The rumor was that he had ventured too close to the CRF facility fence and three men came out of CRF and took him inside and he was now on guard duty in Alaska. Who knows what the truth really is.
    After a while I found East Baltimore Street. I had a drink at every strip joint on the street. It took me several weekends to do that. I did not know that there were so many shapes, sizes and ages of strippers. There were some things I saw that I will not reveal. It was almost as much of an education as the MI courses. I understand that area is now a playground on the waterfront for children.
    Our surveillance course taught us how to watch and see without appearing to look and other techniques. We learned the three man system. The point man following the subject, a man behind the point man watching the subject and seeing that no one followed the point man and a man across the street watching the subject, the point man and the follower. It is for city following and has the advantage that no matter which way a person turns the configuration adjusts. If the subject turns right, the point man becomes the man across the street, the follower becomes the point man and the man across the street becomes the follower.
    We had a practical exercise. We formed into three man teams. They instructed each team to go to a certain place in downtown Baltimore at a certain time and pick up the subject. They gave us a detailed description of the man we were to follow and we were to be graded on our performance. Our team did OK. We were critiqued afterwards and one team did not do well. Not only did they miss their man, they picked up someone else and followed him around Baltimore until he spotted them and confronted them. He asked them why they were following him and the team leader said “I thought you was my friend.” Somehow they got back to the “bird.”
    About five years after my discharge-my observation skills not yet eroded-I was walking up Fifth Avenue in New York City. Way up the street I saw Jim Clayton walking toward me. I soon discovered the man he was following and the other two men on his surveillance team. As I walked by Jim saw me and his eyes looked startled. I did not acknowledge him, walked past and did not turn around. That was my last contact with Military Intelligence.
    The practice interviews in front of the class were loads of fun if you were not the interviewer. When my turn came I was very nervous and was repeating LIDMAC (loyalty, integrity, discretion, morals, and character) over and over in my head. After establishing rapport (remember that?), It went something like this:
    ME: “Do you know SUBJECT?”
    ACTOR: “Oh yeah! We went to high school together.”
    ME: “When did you last see him?”
    ACTOR: “Oh! About two weeks ago at the Tuck Away Motel.”
    ME: (after a pause) “The Tuck Away Motel?”
    ACTOR: “Yes, the Tuck Away Motel.”
    ME: (after another pause), “How do you spell that?”
    ACTOR: “Tee you see kay….”
    By this time the class was howling and I went on auto pilot. I somehow got enough information because I did graduate but I remember no more of that interview.
    Other memories: Pardon My AR was a publication of a list of phrases not to be used in agent reports. Some of them were very funny. One Monday in February the guys in area studies showed up with severe sunburn. Our instructor made an announcement that the microphones in pay phones were not to be removed. The telephone company complained that students were removing them to make makeshift listening devices. One instructor told us that one of our classmates had an IQ of 183. That is very high and very rare. When we did combat interrogations, they marked us down because the guy had a pill under a ring that we did not confiscate. When we graduated there were bleachers set up across the parade field for friends and relatives and I saw people there with long range lenses on their cameras. I assumed the KGB had our photographs.

    Comment by Bob Revay — December 14, 2013 @ 6:18 pm

  1160. 116th INTC Group
    Before we graduated, they asked us to choose three places in the states and three places overseas for deployment. My third choice was Washington, D.C. I received orders to report to MDW (Military District of Washington) Operations Support Group, Fort Leslie J. McNair in Washington, D.C. MDW Operations Support Group was the cover name for the 116th INTC Group. It was to be used for everyone, civilian and army personnel, outside the Intelligence community.
    Fort McNair is on the southernmost tip of Washington, D.C. and is the third oldest army establishment in the US with much history. There was a tall brick wall all around the fort and The Army War College was housed there in a beautiful old building. Outside the East wall was a long, two story, wooden, World War II temporary building. The 116th INTC Group was in the temporary building and down the hall were G2 and the 902nd INTC Group (We called it “The Deuce”).
    I started doing background investigations. The first time I used my credentials I showed a young receptionist my credentials first and then announced who I was. That poor girl turned red then white, then stood up and sat down. She was terrified. I felt very sorry for her. After that I Always asked if I could show my credentials. Printed on the credentials was the phrase, “All members of the military establishment are enjoined to cooperate with the bearer of these credentials.” The credentials held more power than I realized.
    I soon found out that we could travel 300 miles on the weekend without a pass. My home in NJ was 299 miles from DC which was about a four and one-half hour drive. Before I established friendships and a social life in DC, I spent many weekends in NJ. There were eight eligible young ladies for each eligible young man in DC then and we all had many dates with lovely young ladies so my weekends in NJ became fewer and fewer. I especially liked the many different restaurants in DC. I think foreign ambassadors caused food from their countries to be available in DC.
    There was a time when we came to the office Thursday mornings, turned in our agent reports from the week and received our leads to investigate the following week. What a way to be in the army! After about one year I came inside and was assigned to run the message center, and then the message center and secret control desk, then the message center, secret control desk and courier to the pentagon. I did that until my tour of duty was over.
    In August of 1993 the blacks marched on Washington for jobs and freedom. That is when Dr. Martin Luther King made his historic “I have a dream” speech. There was much consternation among the leaders in DC. They were worried about rioting and security. Most of the Special agents from the 116th and the 902nd were on the mall that day. They stationed me and a few others on a roadway leading to the mall. Our instructions were to count people and be available for any trouble.
    At 2:11pm Friday, November 22, 1983 they told us that President Kennedy had been killed and we were on full alert. I did not sleep for thirty-eight hours. Military leaders in Washington were afraid that it was the first salvo in a nuclear attack from the USSR. The next day they assigned us to the state department. They sent us to the state department building for our briefing. They told us that we would be performing protective surveillance for a foreign dignitary. They told us that we were to take the bullet aimed at our dignitary in our bodies. None of us demurred in any way at all. They gave us small lapel pins to be worn at all times and gave us a phrase and counter phrase to memorize. If anyone spoke that phrase to us we were to respond with the counter phrase and obey the orders of that person.
    They assigned four of us to Prince Contol of Cambodia. He went everywhere. We picked him up at his embassy, followed his limo and jumped out and escorted him to his destination. At each place like The White House and the state department building we turned him over to their internal security. When we returned him to his embassy, we turned him over to his internal security.
    He attended the eulogies at the joint session of congress. We escorted him to a room in the Capitol Building across the hall from the entrance to the Joint Sessions room. My job was to stand in the doorway and allow no one to come into or out of the room until further orders. I heard rustling from my right and a large group of men came down the hallway and went through the doorway in front of me. It was the House of Representatives. From the left came another group of men and it was all the senators. Then from the right came the members of the Supreme Court in their robes. From the left came Lynden Johnson, Bobby Kennedy and the cabinet. The whole US Government passed about twenty feet in front of me.
    If you watched the television coverage of the funeral of President Kennedy you saw many of the agents from the 116th and the Deuce doing protective surveillance.
    About twelve years ago I visited DC and drove to Fort McNair to see the old office of the 116th INTC Group. It was no longer there. The World War II temporary buildings were torn down. A field overgrown with trees and remnants of the blacktop of the parking lot was all that was left. I stopped at the main gate and asked two MPs, a lieutenant and a sergeant, if I could enter the fort. They refused me. We chatted awhile and I told them of my service and how it was in the 60s. The lieutenant asked me if I had a driver’s license. He looked at the driver’s license, warned me not to take any pictures and let me in. I was able to see at least part of the place where I had served.
    My decision to join military intelligence was one of the smartest decisions of my life. I never regretted it and to this day I feel honored and privileged to have served with so patriotic and competent a group of men. Some of my best friends at the 116th were Ed Botsko, Paul Lenakos, Thomas Mulcahy, Joe McCardle, Charles Often, and Bob Carnevale.

    Comment by Bob Revay — December 14, 2013 @ 6:44 pm

  1161. Glad to see there is renewed activity here! For graduates/attendees of the “Bird”, this site is the best!

    Welcome to all who have just recently found The Parkway Rest Stop.

    Susan – post # 1155 – I live near Oberursel now!


    Comment by Gary — December 15, 2013 @ 6:47 am

  1162. Soon, I plan to check out the VVA Chapter 451 in the Holabird Industrial Park. They lease one of the last buildings left at the former Fort Holabird site. This is the former Officers’ Open Mess building. The organization is open to all veterans, not just those who served in the RVN. To be eligible for membership, you have to have served in the military, any branch, during the Veteran War era. Their website is: vva.org

    I will report back to this site.

    Happy New Year!


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — December 15, 2013 @ 10:55 am

  1163. Just watched a YouTube video of a live Crosby Stills & Nash concert with them doing Suite Judy Blue Eyes! I saw them at the Baltimore Civic Center in 1968 while attending the 96C course. Great memories!


    Comment by Gary — December 17, 2013 @ 8:24 pm

  1164. Dear fellow Ft. Holabird alumni,

    I wish you an early MERRY CHRISTMAS!

    You are a special and honorable people.

    Ed Hotchkiss (187)

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — December 22, 2013 @ 1:47 pm


    Comment by ben burt — December 23, 2013 @ 2:01 pm

  1166. To all of the veterans of Fort Holabird, both students and permanent party I wish to extend to you and your families a very merry Christmas and a happy and healthy new year. Also a special thank you to all of the persons who responded to my various posts thru out the year. It is because of these posts and comments that I keep coming back to this site, not only to reflect on the past but also to chat with some old friends and new ones that I have met. A special greeting to all of my fellow soldiers who served in the 502nd MI in korea. One last comment please take a moment and pray for the safe return of all of our troops stationed thru out this world . And to my grandson Charles IV who is spending his 2nd Christmas in the 2nd Inf Div on the DMZ in Korea grandma and grandpa miss you and we are so proud of you.
    God Bless everyone on this site and God Bless America.

    Charles Goffredo

    Comment by charles goffredo — December 23, 2013 @ 6:53 pm

  1167. Wishing all veterans and today’s active duty heroes and especially all Ft. Holabird grads and attendees a Frohe Weihnachten and Happy New Year from a proud 96C2L29.


    Comment by Gary Miller — December 24, 2013 @ 9:02 am

  1168. Wishing all vets and today’s active duty heroes and especially all Fort Holabird grads and attendees a Frohe Weihnachten and Happy New Year from a proud 96C2L29.

    Gary Miller

    Comment by Gary Miller — December 24, 2013 @ 9:07 am

  1169. Charles (1166),

    And all the same to you and to Charles IV and all old and young troopers, active and in reserve, everywhere.


    Comment by manny adler — December 24, 2013 @ 4:48 pm

  1170. Reference 895 from Jim Wasson. Yes, one and the same. I remember Jim Misch well. I recall that he was a homesteader in Korea. Ron DeComo did, indeed, die. Sad. He was a great TSCMer.

    Reference 1004 from Don Clifton. I seem to recall a TDY trip in which you were the polygrapher. I remember the guys all commenting that you were the best that CI had at the time.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — December 26, 2013 @ 2:33 pm

  1171. Reference 1017 from Bob Hammel. I was assigned to Berlin Brigade from 1969 to 1972. I remember Dick Workman and the OBB being on the other side of the “iron gate.” Has anyone heard from or about Dick Workman? I often wonder what happened to him after the Wall went down.

    Comment by Linda Mattheww — December 26, 2013 @ 2:39 pm

  1172. Reference 895 Jim Wasson. Jim. I just remembered: I have a photo of the Company B, 501st MI Battalion, Tech Team sitting in the office at Camp Coiner. It includes Jim Misch, but I can’t rmeember the names of the others in it. Would you have been in this photo? If you don’t have it in your collection, I can email it to you.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — December 26, 2013 @ 2:50 pm

  1173. I grew up in Catonsville. Joined Army thru “flash Gordon” Catonsville recruiter. He told me with my law school degree I could join MI and run around in a suit doing secret stuff. When I went to enlist at the Bird I saw a beautiful girl with black hair typing enlistments and told Flash Gordon I was leaving unless she typed my papers. He arranged it, we dated whil I was taking the agent course in 68 and during my 1yr in Korean language school in Arlington Va. We got married just before I went to Taegu Korea to serve with 502nd MI Bn. As soon as I got our house set up she cam over and we honeymooned in Korea . The best time of our life. God bless her she still puts up with me. She actually went on many affirs in Korea with the CIA and Korea Police. She even attended Kisang Parties. She should get VA recognition.

    Comment by charles w. simms — January 1, 2014 @ 12:20 am

  1174. Just exchanged New Year’s greetings with my old buddy at the 116th in Washington DC, Dick Murphy. He was in Section I upstairs in Investigations in 1954-56 while I was in Section III. I did crypto backgrounds and spent a lot of time at Arlington Hall where the NSA and ASA were located before they moved to Fort Meade. Dick later entered the Foreign Service, and in the 1980’s was Assistant Secretary of State for the Mideast. You all saw him on TV as he was a frequent guest commentator. We get together every couple of years in NYC where he and his wife live. We both passed the 80-year-old mark a couple of years back.

    Comment by Jim Downs — January 1, 2014 @ 3:26 pm

  1175. Am glad to see that this site is still active and the memories and stories all of you have written are so interesting. As I had written before I was in Holabird in 1967, haven’t been on site for a few years. I was born in Munich, Germany in 1947 and my mother was telling us about soldiers staying at civilian homes for a short time. That was at the end of world war 2, in any of your training courses did any of the instructors ever bring this up and why the few soldiers stayed with civilians? for information or just learning what they were going through. I worked in the Was Detachment for about a month and then was sent to type orders. Yes, Fort Holabird was an experience and I did work two weekends and Harley burgers…just to try it out. Was way to fast paced but the burgers were SOOO GOOD!!! Again back to my orginial questions was this ever done in other countries? Thanks would like to hear from you.

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio — January 4, 2014 @ 10:34 am

  1176. #1172 You were in in 1954 I just left a comment did you know of my question?

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio — January 4, 2014 @ 10:52 am

  1177. This note is to Manny you are in charge right?
    regarding my question #1174 thought that Jim Downs would have an answer. Is there any reason why intelligence would stay with families overseas? After the war 2 was over an army personnel stayed with my grandparents for a short while and all this was kept secret so of course I am curious as to why would civilians be asked to have them stay at their homes? Any history on that?

    Comment by Sieglinde Bonfilio — January 6, 2014 @ 4:48 pm

  1178. How do I contact Jim Downs? Regards my father at Arlington Hall Station ’55.


    Comment by David — January 6, 2014 @ 10:15 pm

  1179. How do I contact Jim Downs? Regarding my father at Arlington Hall, ’55.

    David Ritchey

    Comment by David — January 6, 2014 @ 10:17 pm

  1180. Alicia @ #638, Please contact me at clubnine02ATgmail.com


    Comment by David — January 9, 2014 @ 10:08 am

  1181. jim; is this website still going?Or has everyone justb ran out of things to say? CURIOUS! BEN

    Comment by ben burt — January 13, 2014 @ 1:37 am

  1182. jim; is this website still going?Or has everyone justran out of things to say? CURIOUS! BEN

    Comment by ben burt — January 13, 2014 @ 1:37 am

  1183. 13 October 1970. Ft. Holabird. U.S. Army….. Day 1
    That’s all I care to remember.

    Comment by Zero — January 15, 2014 @ 3:48 pm

  1184. For Kathleen Stevens. Your comment back in July 2005 caught my eye. I was there from 69 to 71. I worked at the command building, B’s and C’s. I shared half of the second story apartment over the establishment “bar” at the corner of the post with two girls, Margo and Terri. Could you be the ‘Kathy’ that shared the other side of the second floor? It would be great to find someone who was there that you actually know. I don’t think there were really that many WACs there at that time. The comment I found of yours is #38. My first comment is #1134, Oct, 13. Send along an email if you are the same ‘Kathy’ please. It would be good to hear from one of the girls I knew there. Dianna Brewster (Thornton) lizzybrew@comcast.net

    Comment by Dianna Brewster — January 17, 2014 @ 8:34 am

  1185. I am still trying to make contact with anyone that was a trainee in early 1961.

    Comment by Bob Quaglia — January 17, 2014 @ 11:11 am

  1186. I am glad to find this site. I recently filed for membership to The National Counter Intelligence Corps Association (www.ncica.org). If interested – contact James C. Cate CICSpook1@aol.com.

    I am currently 75 yrs old and retired from the US Dept of Justice (USDOJ) as a Supervisory Computer Systems Analyst, Dallas, TX.

    My Army active duty began in Feb 1962 and ended in Feb 1964.
    After several delays, I received orders from the Pentagon assigning me to Infantry Officers School at Ft Benning, GA. Since AIS was not yet a Branch, I was detailed to Artillery. I drove my 1955 Chevy to Columbus, Ga from Ft Worth, TX. Columbus, GA is the home of Ft Benning.

    It is said, during Post WW II, General Patton was base Commander at Benning. The local Fathers from Columbus put the town off limits to GIs from Benning. Patton soon put a stop to the curfew by driving his tank from Benning to the steps of the Court House and gave them an ultimatum. Soon after, they rescinded the Off Limits curfew…. However, I have been unable to verify the story.

    My BOQ was next to the jump towers used for Airborne parachute training. Each morning we saw/heard them going through their runs in full combat uniform/packs and later their parachute jumping. After the first couple of weeks, we saw some walking on crutches with casts on their legs.

    At Benning our instructors were Army Rangers. During training, I most enjoyed the combat tactics and maneuvers. While in College, I was on the ROTC Rifle Team. At Benning, I especially enjoyed firing/use of all the US Army weapons of the period including pistol, various rifles, machine guns, the 105 mm tank gun, hand grenades, rocket launchers, mortars, land mines, use of the bayonet, knife and hand to hand combat.

    My most memorable event at Benning was when a tornado hit the base. My unit was on maneuvers at the time in a heavily wooded, swampy area of Georgia. I specifically remember the high winds, heavy rain and lightning. I was wading the swamps with a PRC10 radio strapped to my back in all the lightning, thinking the whip antenna on the radio would make a good ground for the lightning. During the storm we saw Rangers demonstrating low level parachuting from helicopters.

    While at Benning, I was introduced to Bay Scallops at the Officer’s Mess which has become a life long treat for me.

    I completed the course at Benning and was to go to Ft Holabird as a Photo Interpreter (PI). I was pleased to be selected for the PI course, because I had worked several years for the US Dept of Agriculture (USDA) reading and plotting on aerial land photographs.
    The week before I was to report, I received new orders that 2nd Lts were no longer accepted in PI School, only Capts & above. I was given the option of CIC or Intelligence Staff Officer Course . Not knowing much about either, I took a SWAG and chose CIC.

    I reported to Holabird in April 1962 and the classes continued until August 1962. After processed in, I inquired as to billeting…. I was informed they had no Officer quarters available on post. We were given a quarters allowance. So, I got together with Richard Black (Brunswick, ME) and Andrew Aboytes (Amarillo, TX). We rented a basement apartment in a row house in Dundalk. It was awful crowed for three of us – one average size room, a kitchen, a bath, daybeds and Boiler Room in the middle.

    We had classes Monday through Friday and parade for the Commandant on Saturday morning. After we marched in the review parade, we had the weekend off.

    My roommate Richard Black had previously worked for a yacht builder in Maine. And, per chance, he had a 28 foot sloop in mooring at Annapolis Harbor next to the Naval Academy. The yacht owner told us while we were there to keep an eye on it for him. So, we did…. Every Saturday, after parade, we would take the yacht out sailing the entire Chesapeake Bay and return to class the following Monday morning. That was my first and only experience sailing. By the third week Richard and I were toasted and looked like lobsters.

    Occasionally we would go to Baltimore for Dixieland Jazz band music (New Orleans style) and the Acropolis for Greek music.

    One of my other memorable occasions was my constant run in with Major Tarbutton (phon) . He immediately took a dislike to me, or maybe his nature. Luckily, my advisor, Major Bruno Francasi (phon), ran interference for me. Major Francasi was a WW II “heavy weight”. It was said he had been with US Intelligence while on the staff of Benito Mussolini, Dictator of Italy, allied with Adolph Hitler.

    Like others have stated, I also have a vivid 🙂 memory of the (&@? !) Dundalk brewery smell and the aroma of Colgate Creek.

    Just before the end of Holabird, all the class was told we would receive overseas assignments, with the option to attend Army Language School (ALS), Montery, CA, extending our service for three years in order to attend ALS. However, in the last week we received notice…only one of us would be assigned outside of CONUS, a classmate named Borofsky assigned to West Berlin. We then had the option to withdraw our extensions, so I did. Both my roommates did not. Richard went to ALS to take Japanese and Andrew to take Egyptian.

    After Holabird I went back to Texas for a short furlough. I soon received orders assigning me to 4th Army HQ, San Antonio, TX. Two weeks before I was to report, I received new orders assigning me as a Intelligence Research Officer/Agent (9666), to the 112th INTC Group, duty station, Oklahoma City, OK (OKC). I worked out of the Federal Building in OKC the remainder of my Active Duty. Some years later, they built a new Federal Building next to the old one, In 1995 the building was truck-bombed by Timothy McVeigh.

    While at OKC, On November 22, 1963, I was working in the Oklahoma State Capital, announcement came that President John F. Kennedy had been shot in Dallas, TX. It is noted investigative information disclosed that members of my Group (112th INTC) from the Dallas duty station were in the near vicinity at the time. (http://jfklancer.com/knollagent/index.html). Reportedly, the 4th Army HQ ordered the 112th INTC Group (with much objection) to “stand down.” Some persons later interviewed stated they heard shots from the vicinity of the “grassy knoll” which was on the south side of the Texas School Book Depository, where Lee Harvey Oswald was said to have fired the fatal shots that killed Kennedy. Additional intelligence confirmed no Secret Service, FBI or any Dallas Intelligence personnel were on or near the “grassy knoll”…all part of the continuing saga of conspiracy.

    After Active Duty, I enrolled in Intelligence classes conducted on military bases (mostly at Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio) in the 4th Army area to complete my US Army Reserve obligation.

    On the brighter side, in June 1963, while working in OKC, I met and married my wife who worked at Oklahoma Gas & Electric (across the street from the Federal Building). Last June 2013, we celebrated our 50th anniversary.

    During the remainder of the 1960s, I worked for USDA’s Inspector General’s Office as a Criminal Investigator/Special Agent. I later transferred to the USDOJ, where I retired in 1994.

    Comment by Bill Caddell — January 18, 2014 @ 11:45 pm

  1187. Re 1174; I was in 9666 CI agent course from Mar to Jul 61 (approx).

    Comment by Bob Hammel — January 19, 2014 @ 6:40 pm

  1188. Bob and Bob (nos. 1174&1175):

    Been trying for nearly ten years (post #1) without success. But former G-2’s are a stubborn goal directed lot, aren’t we?


    Comment by Manny Adler — January 21, 2014 @ 6:20 am

  1189. Re #1128…Manny…two true books re CIC in Europe after WWII: The Axmann Conspiracy by Scott Selby 2011; and Bloodlines by Anthony Platt in 2006. Better han fiction!

    Comment by don bridges — January 22, 2014 @ 7:34 pm

  1190. Don(1189),

    Will check-out and thanks.


    Comment by Manny Adler — January 23, 2014 @ 10:33 am

  1191. Don,

    Comment by Manny Adler — January 24, 2014 @ 7:17 am

  1192. Don,
    Let’s try again. Checked out both books and almost finished THE AXMANNN CONSPIRACY. Great read, thanks.


    Comment by Manny Adler — January 24, 2014 @ 7:21 am

  1193. Post 1171 for Linda Matthews; Dick Workman is somewhere near Ft Meade. Can easily verify if you like. Sorry I missed your post.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — January 26, 2014 @ 7:27 pm

  1194. I would like to hear from anyone stationed at the Bird who participated in tests at Edgewood Arsenal.

    clubnine AT gmail.com

    Comment by David — January 27, 2014 @ 9:53 pm

  1195. Correction, that’s

    clubnine02 at gmail.com

    Comment by David — January 27, 2014 @ 9:54 pm

  1196. Don(#1189):

    BLOODLINES, as you wrote, proves one again that truth is often better than fiction. Thank you once again for the leads.


    Comment by Manny Adler — January 28, 2014 @ 6:14 am

  1197. Re 1194: David, I had the 109th Liaison Office at Edgewood from 1/62 to 9/64. A good source of info might be a book: Chemical Warfare: Secrets Almost Forgotten – circa 2006 by former Psychiatrist at Edgewood, James Ketchum. Good Hunting.

    Comment by don bridges — January 28, 2014 @ 5:57 pm

  1198. Re 1196: Manny. Another CIC book is Nazi’s Nightmare by William Walker 2011. About arrests of Gestapo members

    Comment by don bridges — January 29, 2014 @ 10:53 pm

  1199. Long time since I have peeped up. my question is for all of you from 502nd MI Bn in or around 1965-1966 and whether or not you remember the 8th Army Boat detachment. I believe it was the USS Report, a converted mine sweeper with a small fleet of misc type of boats. was there from May 1965 to June 1966. would love to hear from you. can contact me directly at jhbone@att.net or jhbone@vaughnlawfirm.net james h.bone

    Comment by James H. Bone — January 30, 2014 @ 12:28 am

  1200. Re 1197: Mr. Bridges, thanks. I have seen Ketchum’s book. Lots of good info in it. I’m interested in LSD testing generally. Would like to communicate w/ you.


    Comment by David — January 30, 2014 @ 1:43 pm

  1201. Ken, Manny, & Ben (ref. 1162),

    On Thursday evening, I attended my first and probably last meeting of Chapter 451, VVA, at the Officers Open Mess( one of the last buildings left on our former post). Of the 40 or so people at the monthly meeting, I could not find one former MI type. It is true that I did not speak to everyone there, but I could see that there was no real attachment to Fort Holabird, based on a past experiences. Ken, I am beginning to agree with what you said in an earlier post. Fort Holabird is now only in our minds, and in our hearts.

    Comment by Phil ostrander — February 1, 2014 @ 11:00 am

  1202. Ref. 1200


    A bit sad to read your post. The good news is……The Bird will always be in our hearts and our minds. For me, it was a turning point in my life and career and the experience and knowledge gained there, has been passes on to my children and used in my daily life since 1969.

    Thank you for sharing your recent experience at what was once “our home”.

    Best regards,


    Comment by Gary Miller — February 1, 2014 @ 12:12 pm

  1203. Gary,

    Thanks for returning my post so quickly. It is always gratifying to hear from a fellow Birdman. You expressed thoughts that we all can agree about. If you or any of the other contributors to this site ever get to Baltimore and want a tour of what is left of our old post, let me know. Additionally, I now have access to the lounge at the Officers Open Mess, through my one year membership with Chapter 451. Since my retirement, I check this site at least daily.



    Comment by Phil ostrander — February 1, 2014 @ 2:36 pm

  1204. Phil,

    Thanks for sharing. It is sad that the Bird is forgotten but it has been physically gone for some time and the school was moved 40 or more years ago. To me, the school was the Bird.

    Speaking of the school, does anyone know how many of us the school turned out over the years. I never knew how many CI Agents there was world-wide even when I was active duty.


    Comment by Ken Robinson — February 1, 2014 @ 6:01 pm

  1205. Phil,

    My son lives in DC, so I get to the area fairly regularly, although I have not been back to Holabird. I will next time though!

    When I went through the Interrogators course, I met a girl from a place I think was called Sparrow Point? I recall it not being far from Dundalk. Could that be right Phil? We used to go to two clubs in Baltimore back then. One was called Judges (I believe) and the other was Hollywood Park. But that was in 1969! When were you at the Bird.



    Comment by Gary Miller — February 1, 2014 @ 9:21 pm

  1206. Ref 1203

    No idea Ken, but weren’t there roughly 4 couses per year and about 40 peple per course?


    Comment by Gary Miller — February 1, 2014 @ 9:27 pm

  1207. Hi Ken,

    Thanks for responding. I am starting to get inquiries from my high school classmates, Woodlawn High, Class of 1965, about checking out the lounge at Chapter 451, so I may try it for lunch. The last time I heard, they were aiming to reopen, after renovations, on the first Friday in March.

    As to how many agents, area studies types, and coordinators, etc., the school turned out, I really don’t know. When I went through in early 1969, there were 2 classes running simultaneously. Each agent class had about 50 students including a group leader and an assistant group leader. The USAINTC Classroom building was opened in 1955 and the last class went through in the early 70’s before the post closed and everything went to Fort Huachuca, AZ.



    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 1, 2014 @ 9:35 pm

  1208. Gary,

    I am very familiar with Judges and Hollywood Park, unfortunately, both are long gone. Good times! Let me know next time you come to D.C. and possibly you can take a side trip to the Bird. I can also be reached on LinkedIn.

    Additionally, Sparrows Point is right next to Dundalk to the southeast.



    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 1, 2014 @ 9:44 pm

  1209. Maybe we were all part of a LSD experiment and Fort Holabird is just a figment of our imagination. After all, other than us, posting on this site, nobody has ever heard of it. If it was an Acid trip, give me more! It was a great 3 years.

    Comment by Bill Leach — February 1, 2014 @ 11:54 pm

  1210. Bill,

    You are so right! That is why this site is so aptly named as “Fort Holabird or the Twilight Zone.” For me as an agent, it was having civilian status, wearing U.S. insignia on my collar, being treated with a lot more respect than if I wore my 3 stripes, interviewing and interfacing with generals, colonels, and others, both in CONUS and overseas. As a Baltimore native, the fact that this post was in my own backyard. The idea that both times I was assigned here, I was able to live at home. But because it’s existence was not supported by certain people in congress, it was converted into a light industrial park and 95% of it is now gone to a desert location in Arizona?

    As long as we remain, Fort Holabird lives!



    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 2, 2014 @ 9:16 am

  1211. Phil and Bill:

    Perhaps all of this is one humongous (sp?) hallucination and none of us exist? Nevertheless I thoroughly enjoy the trip and your originality and senses of humour.

    What a film script!


    Comment by Manny Adler — February 2, 2014 @ 10:48 am

  1212. Anyone around who was attached to the 588th MID at 5th Special Forces in Nha Trang. The 588th also interacted with B57 SOG.

    Comment by Ron Mahinske — February 2, 2014 @ 2:28 pm

  1213. Manny,

    As the longest tenured contributor to this site, I, for one, appreciate the feedback.

    Code Nemoy,


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 2, 2014 @ 6:30 pm

  1214. Hey you people! Just happened to somehow get on this site and have been glued to it for over an hour, mainly becauseof the true friendship that I see in your writings, something vacant in today’s society.
    Some of your comments brought me back to my career in the U.S. Army where, after basic training, I trained to be a morse code intercepter in Herzogenaurach Germany. I was then transferred to Berlin where I spent nearly 3 years as a spook on a British air force base.1952-55
    I also spent some time in Nam, kind of all over the place in; Phuc Binh, Phu Loy, Quan Loy, Cu Chi, Long Binh, Ton Son Nhut, as both a motor officer and a battery commander.
    I compliment you guys on a super-great site!

    Comment by J.D, Aultman — February 3, 2014 @ 8:59 am

  1215. Hi JD,

    Welcome to the website! I have only been on since last September, but have enjoyed it ever since as my trip back to the late 1960’s. As you may have noticed, I am from Baltimore and was assigned to Holabird twice. From what I have seen, we have people signing on from your era, from mine, and some right up until the post was closed. It is a great group of guys, a few WACs, and some relatives from both groups. We all seem to have Holabird and MI in common.



    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 4, 2014 @ 2:46 pm

  1216. Welcome JD – great to have you on board!

    I know Herzo Base well . It was turned over to the Germans some time ago now, and is currently the HQ of Adidas Sports. There used to be a 9-hole golf course on base called “Steel Trees” because of Herzo being an artillery base. All gone now.

    I was with Intel (interrogator) in Berlin also, but in the late 60’S/and 70’s. If you were at a British air base, I guess that was RAF Gatow near Spandau?

    What years were you in Berlin?

    All the best,


    Comment by Gary Miller — February 4, 2014 @ 6:52 pm


    Comment by TERESA BATTLE — February 8, 2014 @ 5:30 pm

  1218. I find this site to be “eye-opening” as I grew up in Fort Holabird. Beginning in 1960, my Dad was an Intelligence Officer working under Col. Filbert. I recall a time when I went with my Mom to deliver a lunch to my Father. When I asked the Col. if his wife was the one who made “Filberts Margarine” I saw the disdain on my Father’s face, as though I had insulted his Commander. I was never invited back to bring lunch to my Father.

    I enjoyed a childhood full of happiness living in the homes circling a HUGE playground, our family played with and camped out in that big playground with other children of many nationalities. Also enjoying that fantastic pool. My oldest brother was a lifeguard there, and saved my younger sister from drowning, as things were in those days, parents weren’t there to supervise.

    Not understanding my Father’s lack of connection with any of his 5 children. I understand now that his “private” life of being a SPOOK was something that he could not share with our family. What I glean from this is that my Dad gave his life to the US ARMY. We had only a portion of the Man that we deserved. He died at 63 from cancer untreated by the US Military. Very sad but, true from a daughter amidst other siblings born into the ARMY Life.

    Comment by Chris — February 12, 2014 @ 8:46 pm

  1219. Also, we moved to Edmondson Heights after leaving Ft. Holabird, where my oldest brother rode bus after bus to finish high school at Dundalk HS. I went on to attend Johnnycake JH, then Woodlawn SH, class of 77. I know I’m perhaps one of the younger posters here, but my memories are very clear. Ft. Holabird was my home for many years…. OK, 5 years, but very happy memories!

    Comment by Chris — February 12, 2014 @ 9:13 pm

  1220. Good Morning Fort Holabird!

    In Catonsville, I woke up to a foot of snow this morning. The Bird got about nine inches and it is still snowing. JD, we look forward to your next posting.



    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 13, 2014 @ 9:47 am

  1221. I was there from 1969 to 1971, I met this wonderful person named sgt William F Richardson air force (SGT) i would like to know his current address, last address was 200 s 3rd st lewisburg pa i would like to know his location so i can write to him, he help me a lot when i was assigned to ft holabird a great human being. thank you,happy valentine day to you wonderful people.

    Comment by Teresa Battle — February 13, 2014 @ 11:39 am

  1222. (REF)1124 TERESA i would like to know the whereabouts of

    Comment by Teresa Battle — February 13, 2014 @ 11:50 am

  1223. (REF) 1124 TERESA i would like to know the whereabouts of sgt William F Richardson last address 200 s 3rd st lewisburg pa thank you

    Comment by Teresa Battle — February 13, 2014 @ 11:52 am

  1224. Wow, I thought I was the only one left who remembered Fort Holabird. My dad was in the Green Berets and we moved to the guest house on base in 1972. Eventually, we moved to Cummins Apartments where I grew up. My dad was transferred to Baltimore when he returned from his 2nd tour of Vietnam. He was to teach ROTC at Loyola. Cummins Apts was still military housing at the time and we had to stay at the guest house until our unit was ready. I remember the sad time of watching the closing of the fort. After the fort closed it almost seemed abandoned. In fact, it was. The army didn’t want it anymore and Baltimore City hadn’t purchased it yet. This was the time of Watergate. During this time John Dean spent his 4 months of confinement there. The back of my house use to back up to the fence surrounding the fort. On many summer days I would ride my bike in the old abandoned fort. One day I saw a man behind a fence. He was out excercising. He was somewhat surprised to see me riding my bike as the fort was off limits. We struck up a conversation and he told me his name – John Dean. Over those 4 months we had several conversations. I really didn’t know who John Dean was, although I had heard his name on the news a lot. On about 3 or 4 occassions I saw the presidential helicopter fly into Fort Holabird and land in the field right behind my house. A few black cars would pull up very quickly and Nixon would step out of the helicopter and into one of the black cars and then they would all be gone. Probably took no longer then 5 minutes for the entire event. All these years later I guess he was meeting with Mr. Dean to discuss what the hell they were going to say. I remember telling my parents at dinner that I had seen President Nixon and John Dean today. They didn’t even acknowledge that I had said anything. I guess they were blowing it off as too crazy to acknowledge. Anyway, I don’t live in Dundalk anymore, but my business is still there. I can see the old fort out of my office window. I ride through it once in awhile trying to remember how it use to be.

    Comment by Rob Griffin — February 16, 2014 @ 6:22 pm

  1225. Anymore Smiley Barracks in Karlsruhe, Germany?

    Comment by John Washington — February 16, 2014 @ 11:59 pm

  1226. Ref. 1221


    I enquired with some friends today………Smiley Barracks, along with most of the Karlsruhe military community, closed in 1995.


    Comment by Gary Miller — February 17, 2014 @ 2:52 pm

  1227. A great site ! I was at Holabird in 1959 prior to a tour in Korea. I have fond memories of weekends in Washington,Evenings at the Peabody Book club on East Baltimore Street where Charlie Bird was on the guitar, sailing on the Potomac with a case of beer or two on the weekends and weekend trips to Boston. There was also the pervasive smell of yeast from, as I recall, a nearby bread factory. Does anyone recall theis odor ?

    Don Whittum

    Comment by Don Whitttum — February 18, 2014 @ 12:22 pm

  1228. Sorry. I had a senior moment. Our sailing was on Chesapeake Bay . My classmate had a sailboat at Annapolis and when we returned from the sailing trip we would always eat at one of the waterfront restaurants.Additionally I do recall that the strong yeast odor was from a beer producing facility-not a bread factory.Distant memories are slowly returning as I read the preceding entries.


    Comment by Don Whitttum — February 19, 2014 @ 12:28 pm

  1229. What a great site ! I was at Holabird in 1959 as a prelude to a Korean tour of duty. I remember the Saturday night buffets at the officers club and weekend ventures to Washington, sailing on Chesapeake Bay out of Annapolis,evenings at Peabody’s Bookshop where Charlie Bird regularly played the guitar,shameful evenings at the East Baltimore Street clubs,the pungent and continuing smell of yeast, especially during hot summer days and weekend trips to Boston where my beloved worked. I also remember my CO at the time-his name was Capt Green and rumor was that he was the senior captain in the US military.

    Comment by donald whittum — February 20, 2014 @ 10:09 pm

  1230. I took the 97F20 Military Intelligence Coordinator Course Class 244-97D20 from November 25th 1969 to February 1970. Then went to 500 MI Group, Ford Island, Hawaii. Went to the 525th Vietnam from Sept 30, 1971 to July 24, 1972 first half at the McCarrick Compound just outside of Tan Son Nhut Airbase, then to Long Binh – am looking for anyone who was in any of those places. Was with Terry McCullough, Steve Chapman, Robert Plinkowski & Joel Roberts at the bird and then in Hawaii. It’s great to read about Holabird – forgot about the creek until I read about it and the smell immediately came back to me. Please contact me if you know of anyone from any of these assignments. Thanks

    Comment by Ron Lompart — February 21, 2014 @ 4:46 am

  1231. My ex husband Norman Jacob and I were at Holabird (USAINS) from 1964 – 67. We had many dear friends but have lost touch. I would like to locate (Maj) Richard Beauford and his wife Carol. I know he remained in the military and had multiple tours in Vietnam. Can anyone help me make contact?

    Comment by Joan Jacob — February 21, 2014 @ 6:34 pm

  1232. My ex husband Norman Jacob and I were at Holabird (USAINTS) from 1964 – 67. We had many dear friends but have lost touch. I would like to locate (Maj) Richard Beauford and his wife Carol. I know he remained in the military and had multiple tours in Vietnam. Can anyone help me make contact?

    Comment by Joan Jacob — February 21, 2014 @ 6:34 pm

  1233. My memory of Ft. Holabird was coming in on a holiday weekend from Ft. Ord sick and crashing in a wood barrack for the entire weekend. I was 20 and was signed up for the 97D course was told that there was a backup of classes and that I could expect to be at Ft. Holabird for at least 6 months. We would form up in the morning for head count and then be released for the day. After a week or so it was said that a new Commander came in and was determined to break the log jam which was the 97B class which no one wanted to drop to go to 97D so I think it was said that any 97B who didn’t agree to take the 97D class was going to get KP etc etc. After a short time I guess some 97Bs dropped to the 97D – had a great time going to the “block” – remember going to the brick barracks and seeing clothes just stuffed into lockers and very messy appearance of everything – after basic it was a shock but this all changed when new commander decided to move things along. Interesting reading of peoples experiences.

    Comment by Ron Lompart — February 22, 2014 @ 2:32 am

  1234. have we ever wondered just what makes us return again and again to this web cite. what is the mystique that draws us back to this time in the past. we were ALL just average joes when we arrived. could it be that some thing drew s in. made us believe we were a part of something that would never happen again. reminds me very much of the thw program “LOST” SEEMS TO MAINTAIN THE MYSTIQUE OF A SPECIAL UNIT. J. BONE

    Comment by james h. bone — February 24, 2014 @ 2:39 pm

  1235. Jim (1223),

    Excellent question. Some hypstheses: looking to connect with former comrades; reliving something in our youth; curiousity plain and simple; all or none of the above?
    I have found this in many veterans. As we get older our military experiences take on a different perspective and these really were our adult formative years and the whole point of military training is to form erstwhile soldiers, sailors and Marines, no?

    Any other ideas troops?



    Comment by Manny Adler — February 24, 2014 @ 6:43 pm

  1236. James & Manny,

    I agree with both of you. The nearly 3 years I spent in MI and the 6 months I spent at the Bird were among some of the most memorable of my life. Additionally, I not only got to see Holabird at its zenith, but much to my displeasure, I also got to see its demise. The memories will always be there and I treasure the chance to reminisce with you all, especially now that I am in my so-called golden years. Fort Holabird was our own kind of Camelot.



    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 24, 2014 @ 8:55 pm

  1237. In addition to growing up about half a mile from the Bird, I attended CI, FOI and the first officer advanced class MI68A 01 (?) in 68. This was first combined with ASA and they built a new building for us and we were called VIPs in residence! I retain a copy of a book of cartoons done by a member of the group (based on his and others input) which were generally produced daily and posted on our bulletin board. A sample is how the MI brass was developed. Any interest in a copy of these adventures of Harry Holabird and Debby Dundalk?

    Comment by Bob Hammel — February 25, 2014 @ 1:25 pm

  1238. nothing I could have ever done could have prepared me for my experience. however, I know for sure, the army gave me much more than I deserved, and I can never repay the army for what I received. just to think, 6 months at fort holabird, the preeminent intelligence training center, and one year at Monterey California, at he preeminent language school in the world, in return for the most exciting 3 years of my life. thank you US ARMY, USIANTS, 502ND MI BN, AND ASA FT DEVINS, and GOD bless the United States of America J. BONE

    Comment by james h. bone — February 25, 2014 @ 5:39 pm

  1239. A postscript to #1235. I wonder if this site is in some way as close to the reunions that “regular” units have? In many ways due to nature of our jobs and clearances we were somewhat isolated, especially permanent party at Holabird. Comments?


    Comment by Manny Adler — February 26, 2014 @ 1:38 pm

  1240. Manny, Just knowing what we learned in the 97 courses and our assignments prior to re-entering civilian life, gave us all such a new understanding of our country and society. I know for me it was such an eye opener and a great adventure that few got to experience. There is not a day goes by without benefiting from our MI experience. I don’t know how a reunion would be better than our memories, though I would travel anywhere to reminece as we do here.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — February 26, 2014 @ 6:55 pm

  1241. Hey Guys,

    Now that I am a member of Post 451, VVA, Beckley Street, in the former Fort Holabird, I can get us the rental of the hall in the former Officers Open Mess for about $425. This is $100 off of the price to the public. The hall seats well over 100 and is used for their local VVA monthly chapter meetings. It also has a large kitchen. Additionally, adequate on street parking is available.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 26, 2014 @ 9:10 pm

  1242. Manny(1239),Gordon(1240), I think you guys are starting something that was inevitable to happen. A good thing! Let’s see where it goes.


    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — February 26, 2014 @ 9:16 pm

  1243. ACICV and NCICA have annual reunions and “conventions. Both have web sites and accept former MI types as members. Worth checking out.

    Comment by Don Bridges — February 26, 2014 @ 9:24 pm

  1244. Hi Don,

    Thanks for providing the information on the above organizations. If we used the VVA location in the Holabird Industrial Park, it would probably be a one time affair. The main advantage would be cost, as one would not have to join either organization with their dues requirements. The principle disadvantage with what I am recommending as that we would have to find a way to fund the event up front.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — February 27, 2014 @ 7:06 pm

  1245. I was day dreaming about the one,two, three club and that gorgeous wac who asked me to dance after I had too many beers. All I remember is her first name, Theresa. Took her on a date to church. I also dated Col. Trautwein’s daughter while I was at Holabird. I also remember running around the edges of the entrance to the VC village while some of those who didn’t listen raced into the middle of the entrance and wound up in a hole. Ft. Dix, 1965 and Ft. Holabird August 65 to December 65. Wound up in Newark, N.J. during the riots. Infiltrated a NIKE site with Jerry Ahmen but the bulk of the work was checking LIDMACs. So many years ago.

    Comment by fred norton — March 1, 2014 @ 9:31 pm

  1246. By the way, two of my best friends were permanent party: Bill Leach and Rick Nesbitt. Rick passed away about four years ago but I still keep in touch with Leach from the Boston area. Ring a bell to anyone out there?

    Comment by fred norton — March 1, 2014 @ 9:44 pm

  1247. ACICV life membership is $25. Quarterly Agent Report (newsletter) is $25 annually for hard copies; electronic (e-mail) is free. NCICA membership is $25 for first 2 years and $10 annually thereafter. Quarterly newsletter is The Golden Sphinx. Both newsletters have photos and articles of interest in addition to what the chapters are doing. Annual reunions are held at different locations (perhaps near you?)

    Comment by don bridges — March 3, 2014 @ 1:31 pm

  1248. Don,

    Thanks for the updated information on ACICV and NCICA.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 3, 2014 @ 2:44 pm

  1249. Ref. #s 1244 and 1245. I checked out the websites for both of the organizations mentioned. The ACICV convention will be held in September 2014 in the Minneapolis/ St. Paul area. As of 3/03/14, the NCICA has not yet listed its 2014 convention dates or location. Please Google each of these organization’s websites for more information.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 3, 2014 @ 5:34 pm

  1250. David #1178, relative to Arlington Hall: Contact me at downs24@cox.net. Sorry about the tardy answer. I haven’t checked this site in nearly two months.

    Msg #1177 questions. I don’t know if it was standard SOP to house military personnel with German civilians right after the war. I do know we seized a lot of German housing in later years. In Frankfurt in 1955, my wife and I lived for a time at 121 Oeder Weg in an old German apartment house. Our neighbors, Fred and Connie Brown, lived in the same bldg. Fred was a fresh second lieutenant and a Harvard grad. We have remained friends for almost 60 years. He is a retired court of appeals judge in Boston. Yes, my intel background influenced my life a great deal, as others have noted about their own experiences. I came within an eyelash of accepting a job at Oberursel in 1957, but I returned home to run the family real estate holdings. It was hard to walk away from an intelligence career.

    Comment by Jim Downs — March 3, 2014 @ 5:58 pm

  1251. Ref. # 1247
    By 1962, German landlords were charging Americans twice the rent that German tenants were previously paying for the same apartment, at least in Wurzburg, Wiesbaden, Idar-Oberstein, Freising, and Fulda.

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 3, 2014 @ 6:43 pm

  1252. Re #1189. Thanks for the tip on the books. I just finished “The Axmann Conspiracy”. I had never heard of the plan to establish a Fourth Reich, so I learned a lot about the early occupation of Germany. Cheers for the CIC! The book is very interesting – a page turner.

    Comment by Bob Fox — March 4, 2014 @ 6:07 pm

  1253. Read about CIC “capturing gestapo” in the 2011 true book “Nazis’ Nightmare” by William G. Walker. CIC was very active right after WWII,

    Comment by don bridges — March 5, 2014 @ 1:34 am

  1254. Am semi-retired now in the Pacific Northwest after a long career in national government and politics in D.C.
    which really began with my Holabird duty.

    After basic at Ft. Ord, I was assigned in 1957 to an intelligence-analyst training course at Holabird. 38 of us in the group—all privates and all college grads.
    Our first day at Holabird I heard my name called and was
    told to stand in front of the group—whereupon I mysteriously was appointed Group Leader. We were pretty much left alone thereafter, doing our class and other work. Many good friends in the group, including Bob Potter and Yannic Mercier, although I have long since lost touch with all of them. Recall regular visits to a grill/bar on Dundalk Avenue and taking in Orioles games at old Orioles Stadium.

    Later, with a Reserve obligation, I was in strategic intelligence units in NY and Boston. In October, 1961,
    just weeks before my obligation was to end, the Berlin Wall was erected and President Kennedy recalled some Reservists to duty—including my seven-man unit, which was assigned to the USSR branch in the Pentagon. This was at the time when Army Intelligence was just being merged into the Defense Intelligence Agency. My assignment: To rewrite on a crash basis the handbook on Soviet Army forces and tactics. The Berlin Crisis passed and I remained in D.C. to serve in the LBJ White House and in other jobs. Also served as a regular lecturer at the Defense Intelligence School and other
    related schools, always billed as an intelligence homeboy who had gone onto responsibilities in civilian life.

    I visited the Holabird site a few years ago and of course found it to be a present-day industrial park. Also have been to Ft. Ord, which had 35,000 there during my service, but which now is closed except for a couple intelligence installations. Have altogether fond memories of Holabird, which was run in a civilized and intelligent manner. I had only one small c.s. incident while serving there. I was marching our training group to a morning class when a car stopped alongside us. A colonel’s wife, in the driver’s seat, chewed me out for what she thought was the non-military manner in which we were marching. She asked my name and the training group’s designation. Later that day we were told to police the open area in front of officers housing, being sure to keep a straight line while doing so.

    Comment by Ted Van Dyk — March 8, 2014 @ 2:35 pm

  1255. Ted(1254),

    Perhaps there is something to “the female being the more dangerous of the species?” You got to Holabird just as I was leaving. Sorry about the c.s.


    Comment by Manny Adler — March 10, 2014 @ 12:13 pm

  1256. Ted

    My career path started very much like yours……basic at Ft. Ord with
    A-5-1 (down by the bowling alley) folllowed immediately by the Interrogators course at thr Bird…..just 10 years later. Then off to Berlin – great duty!


    Comment by Gary Miller — March 10, 2014 @ 5:16 pm

  1257. I arrived at the Bird in May of 69 right out of Leonard Wood. At twenty three I was a bit old for that sort of thing. Went through the 97C course. Anyone remember Mr. Pickarillo. “Cease all clandestine activity”.

    How about the Infil/Exfil exercises at Ft. Howard, or the Agent Operation Exercise. I was sent to Hartford Connecticut. Rained hard for three days.

    Upon graduation was assigned to the OACSI CIAD. Spent the week of the moratorium in DC (1970) in the war room at the pentagon trying to figure out how many Hippies could fit into the Ellipse.

    Managed to be on the receiving end of Senator Irvin’s investigation.

    Certainly the most interesting three years of my life.

    Comment by Jack Terrill — March 13, 2014 @ 3:11 pm

  1258. Greetings,

    Today, I made one of my local forays to Fort Holabird. I visited two specific areas that I have been curious about for some time. First, I went to the former Officers Club and to my surprise found out that the lounge was now open to VVA members. It was about 3:30 pm so it was not very crowded. I noticed two tables filled with just a few people in attendance. I spoke to Cynthia, the waitress, who was very cordial. She indicated that they are only open on Fridays for lunch and dinner and Saturdays for dinner only. The menu is very limited in spite of the fact that they have a liquor license. The offer chicken fingers, wings, burgers, and fish. That’s it!

    My second stop was to find what the locals call “Tank Hill”. It is easily the highest point on the old Fort Holabird site. The three jeep test tracks are still intact. For those of you who decide to locate this part of the post, make sure you wear proper footwear as the area in front of the hill is a marsh. It is located on Pine Street across from Donna’s Tavern, just down the street from the Dundalk American Legion Hall inside Cimaglia Park at Fort Holabird, aptly named. Tank Hill is just beyond the 2nd baseball diamond.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — March 14, 2014 @ 5:22 pm

  1259. oh my, I was searching for a Jewish Cemetery in Dundalk and came across this site. I grew up in Dundalk, and learned to drive on the base. My friends and I would somehow get in and practice on the road there. We would also sneak into some club with my friend’s sister, who was 6 years older than us and dance/socialize with guys.

    Comment by Anita — March 16, 2014 @ 6:42 pm

  1260. found this site from a fellow agent, after all these years it does bring back a lot of good memories. Need help on ordering these memorial badges if seen on the post. after 3 yrs all I have is a beer mug from the 502nd. will be staying up with the post thank you in advance. S/A james w. Campbell

    Comment by jim campbell — March 16, 2014 @ 9:50 pm

  1261. ref. 1258 served march 68 to aug 97B40 class. Aug 68 to Dec.69 113th Gp Region111 KC MO field office. Dec 69 to Dec 70 G2 8th Army Korea Special Operations Branch AIC

    Comment by jim campbell — March 16, 2014 @ 9:57 pm


    Comment by james h. bone — March 17, 2014 @ 3:32 pm

  1263. Jim(1258),

    OK, you got me. What is PI day?


    Comment by Manny Adler — March 18, 2014 @ 5:10 am


    Comment by BEN BURT — March 18, 2014 @ 2:04 pm

  1265. My badge number was 6206. I was issued it in October 1968 and turned it in along with my credentials in 1970 when I was transferred to Vietnam for Phoenix. I have the badge right now. I requested it in 2002 through the Counterintelligence Badge Trophy Program. It is encased in a block of Lucite but I can read the number which is stamped on the back. The pin has been removed. I couldn’t get my credentials as they had been destroyed several years before that.

    I spoke with the gentleman who was handling the program at Fort Huachuca. He told me that I had lucked out and received my original badge. He also told me that my badge had just been issued to one other agent after me.

    I’m very proud of it.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — March 18, 2014 @ 5:26 pm

  1266. Badge #1911 issued in April 1952 in 116th @ Washington, DC, signed with letter issuing by BG Gallagher frem CIC Ctr (Holabird). Prior to that (March 1951) my badge was issued and authenticated by the MDW G2 Col Tausch. Don’t recall the number, but credential number was different!

    Comment by don bridges — March 18, 2014 @ 7:48 pm

  1267. many…forgot to mention…pi day is from math: the circumference of a circle divided by its diameter…which is a constant 3.1414 etc to infinity. It is humorously celebrated on March 14…get it? 3/14…

    Comment by don bridges — March 18, 2014 @ 8:12 pm

  1268. I had badge number 008 and that was between 63 & 66 so I know that was not how they were issued. I wish I could still get my badge or a replica of it. j. bone

    Comment by james h. bone — March 19, 2014 @ 11:14 am

  1269. James, try this phone number at Ft. Huachuca, 520-538-6110. It should be the number of the B&C Program Manager. The number is from 2010. Hopefully the program is still in effect.

    Comment by Ken Robinson — March 19, 2014 @ 12:04 pm


    Comment by BEN BURT — March 19, 2014 @ 7:58 pm

  1271. My former husband(now deceased, Mike Lutz, was stationed stationed at Holabird in the spring/summer of 1968. He drove a BMW motorcycle and can home every weekend to South Jersey. Everyone from his class went on to Viet Nam except for one guy who went to Germany. Mike was located somewhere just outside of Saigon and was a clerk/typist. After that he was assigned to Riverside, California and, later, to Fort Gordon, Ga.

    Comment by Jeanne Jablonski — March 20, 2014 @ 8:59 am

  1272. I was issued Badge # 1200 in July 1968. I retired in 1997 and received my B&C on a plaque. I was at Ft Meade at the time and the B&C custodian was there also. I checked with her and found my number had been carried by two people prior to being issued to me. I believe at that time your number was reused if the retiree did not ask for it. I was issued another number as a civilian and turned that one in when I retired again in 2005. Rules may have changed since then. The original is my favorite keepsake.

    Comment by Don Clifton — March 21, 2014 @ 9:03 am

  1273. I was issued 1346. I thought it would go to a new recruit when I left in 1970 on an early out for education. I never thought about this plaque situation until I read your stories. I phoned the number on 1265 and sure enough. No knowledge on who gets what number etc.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — March 21, 2014 @ 4:21 pm

  1274. thanks for the info on B and C program everyone, ill be calling Monday.

    Comment by jim campbell — March 22, 2014 @ 5:26 pm

  1275. Ok you have all been good with answers to ???. Now for a new one. With an mos 97B40 how do you graduate with a rank of CPL ? 40s are E 7. I also remember some where way back in my memory we were suppose to make WO upon duty assignment, instead we had to fight quotes in 5th army for just an E5.

    Comment by jim campbell — March 22, 2014 @ 8:05 pm

  1276. My badge and creds number was 7910 and was issued in Stuttgart at the 66th in December 1953. I also found out a few months ago about the plaque and have one on order with another badge as my old one is somewhere but obviously not available any longer.

    Comment by Bob Mann — March 23, 2014 @ 11:12 am

  1277. My badge number was 13137, issued in 1956. I have a receipt from Capt. Boyer when returning it one time. We rarely carried our B&Cs in Korea, maybe because we wore US insignia and later a DAC patch [not civilian clothes].

    Comment by Bernie Thielen — March 23, 2014 @ 3:08 pm

  1278. To muddy the badge water a bit: how many carried more than one B%C? 1951, War Department, # not recalled, authenticated by G2 MDW; 1952, Department of the Army, #1911 authenticated by BG Gallagher; and 1972, Defense Investigative Service, SIC, authenticated by USAF BG Cappucci. Who beats three?

    Comment by don bridges — March 23, 2014 @ 6:07 pm

  1279. Re: 1271. MI Special Agent (SA) badge 6548, Nov 68. DIS SA badge 1691, Jan 73. Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms SA badge 1939, Sep 76. Housing & Urban Development Inspector General Criminal Investigator (CI) badge 88, Oct 79. HUD IG SA badge, unnumbered, c. 1983. State Department IG CI badge, unnumbered, Apr 1988. State Dept IG SA badge 3, Jul 1991. (Temporary assignment, Agency for International Development IG SA badge 23, Apr 1995)

    Seven. Couldn’t keep a job. 😄

    Comment by Denis Spelman — March 30, 2014 @ 3:26 pm

  1280. Dennis, I accede to you, but I did not include badges from Dart Drug, Oklahoma Healthcare Corp and Baptist Medical Center! Cross your fingers that someone else will comment.

    Comment by don bridges — March 30, 2014 @ 6:13 pm

  1281. Well, Don, I did have to go outside DoD to get my number up. Three Defense badges seems to be the record.

    Comment by Denis Spelman — March 30, 2014 @ 7:31 pm

  1282. With such a tremendous response to #1278 ab0ve, I have more muddy water…how many times did you call the ‘Bird home? (1947) administrative course; (1950) agent course; (1951) microfilm course; (1952) photography course; (1970) personnel security adjudication course. Also, they must have figured that I could not learn, so I was assigned (1960) to Security Division, G2 Office (with COL Seaver as G2).

    Comment by don bridges — April 6, 2014 @ 4:45 pm

  1283. Don……I called the Bird “home” just once……1968 96C Interrogators course. We didn’t get badges either 🙁

    Then called Ft. Meade home for 5 months, then the Joint Refugee Operations Center (JROC) in Berlin .


    Comment by Gary Miller — April 6, 2014 @ 6:50 pm

  1284. In 1968 there was some kind of dust up because of the backlog at the Bird. They called us (97D’s) all together and started reading off a list of where people could go to complete their MOS by OJT. California seemed off the table, but by the end of the week most of us were spread across the U.S. For a few weeks I got some training; then, Reverened King was assasinated, and your all remember that fire storm. That was the end of the OJT. Right after that we were all promoted to SP/4’s and given specific assignments; and, six months after that some of us were promoted to SP/5’s. Even with the rank, the shortage of skilled people was so great a number of us were in slots one or two grades above our pay grade. It was learn as you go. When as a confused 18 year old I asked the CSM why things were the way they were, he simply said: “We would not put you in a job that we didn’t think you could do.” That was an eye opener for me and pretty much reflects the training I received over my three years. I worked with some highly skilled people who bent over backwards to explain things to you, but no more formal training. Trips back to the Bird were mostly courier duties and were very short.

    Best to all and stay healthy

    Dave Edmonds

    Comment by David Edmonds — April 8, 2014 @ 6:02 pm

    As of 9 April 2014
    For a total of $141 you can get a Badge and Cred. plaque, 10.5×13 inch. The creds. will say Counterintellegence Special Agent. They will no longer do MI. The following MOS are eligable 35E,97B,351B,35L,351L,0132.
    Contact person at Ft. Huachuca is Program Coordinator Mrs. Gonzalez 520-538-6110 or marcia.r.gonzalez2ctr@mail.mil

    Hope this is helpful

    Jeff Terrell

    Comment by Jeff Terrell — April 10, 2014 @ 11:46 am

  1286. Forgot to mention that Ft. Huachuca has a very nice MI museum. If you are out that way you should stop in.


    Comment by Jeff Terrell — April 10, 2014 @ 6:40 pm

  1287. Wow!! I absolutely love this site. Brings back many happy memories of days long past.

    Reference 1193, Bob Hammel, 26 Jan 14. Do you have contact informatin for Dick Workman?

    Reference 1217, Teresa Battle. I was in the WAC Detachment from 1963 to 1964. I was attached to it and pulled CQ there from 1967 to 1969. Do these timeframes match yours? Sorry, I don’t remember your name.

    FYI for anyone interested: There is going to be a USAREUR G-2 Reunion in Helen, Georgia, in Sep 14 and anyone who served in an intelligence position in USAREUR is invited. Lee McCaslin, who served for many years in the USAREUR G-2, is the point of contact.

    Comment by Linda Matthews — April 16, 2014 @ 12:42 pm

  1288. Here’s a web link if you’re interested in MI-CIC, Holabird trivia, memorabilia. It’s a list of items located at the intel museum in Sierra Vista, AZ…http://huachuca- http://www.army.mil/sites/History/PDFS/catalogmi.pdf

    Comment by RF — April 16, 2014 @ 3:29 pm

  1289. Hi RF,

    I tried your Link and I am getting File Not Found.


    Phil Ostrander

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 16, 2014 @ 6:53 pm

  1290. http://huachuca-www.army.mil/files/History_MI_Catalog.pdf

    ((Try this for the MI Museum))


    Comment by RF — April 17, 2014 @ 2:30 am

  1291. RF,

    Thanks!!! I got it.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — April 17, 2014 @ 7:44 am

  1292. re: 1287-Linda I am unsuccessful in getting Dick Workman contact info. Sorry.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — April 19, 2014 @ 7:54 pm

  1293. Re 1292. Okay. Thanks, Bob.

    Comment by Linda — April 30, 2014 @ 1:31 pm

  1294. It seems all traffic has ceased since we were sent info on a museum !
    Are there that few of us to the unique situation we had from our experience at the Bird.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — May 5, 2014 @ 2:03 pm

  1295. Hi Gordon,

    I am sure that of the regulars out there, there are some that are just waiting for the right topic before they respond, e.g., Badges and Credentials seemed to really strike a cord. I enjoyed my time in MI and overseas with the 502nd, however my main topic area of interest is Fort Holabird, past and present. I welcome all comments and questions.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 5, 2014 @ 4:09 pm

  1296. Phil, I enjoyed my time too, though it is seemingly only our training time at the Bird that we mainly share. I knew of no other 97B40 to have ever been sent to Alice Springs, Australia. I was sent in Jan 70 and when I was there and afterward never knew of another agent being sent. Maybe someone can let me know they were there before or after.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — May 6, 2014 @ 6:56 pm

  1297. Gordon,

    That certainly sounds like a plum assignment. All of my fellow agents went to Fort Bragg, Vietnam, Bangok, Thailand, or back to the Bird. Along with many others, I went to Korea in Sep 70 and had a fine tour. The Korean people were very hospitable. Currently, when I meet any in this country they seem flattered that I can still utter a few words in their former language.

    Holabird was a real treat for me because I was able to commute from my home in Woodlawn (western Baltimore County). I still reside on the west side of Baltimore and pilgrimage to the remains of our alma mater on occasion.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 6, 2014 @ 8:09 pm

  1298. Gordon, Phil, et.al.,

    Still out here. Still no responses from permanent party from the mid to late fifties (perhaps a few). This is realy nostalgia central isn’t it?


    Comment by Manny Adler — May 7, 2014 @ 11:34 am

  1299. Hey Manny,

    It is good to hear from you again. I guess the permanent party guys from the mid to late fifties would now be in their mid to late seventies. God bless ’em.

    Soon, I am planning to post a history of Fort Holabird on this site and it is going to be a really big show. Keep your eyes pealed for this coming attraction.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 7, 2014 @ 2:04 pm

  1300. Phil, It will be very interesting to find out if it is possible a history of MI during the years it was housed at the Bird. I say this because I have heard various stories on guys going through 97B40. Some have said they took the course prior to being 21, some said they were sent out as OJT type training. Again, it would be interesting to know how classes over the years possibly changed. During my time working as an agent I met fellow agents that were schooled in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s and all had the same schooling as I received. So I await your findings.

    Comment by Gordon Cooper — May 7, 2014 @ 6:39 pm

  1301. For Phil O. and your history research on Fort Holabird:

    Three very good books with history and pics of Holabird, 1950s, 60s, early 70s. The books are part of the Army Lineage Series, written by John Patrick Finnegan. They can be purchased on the inter net or can be found at some libraries. The first book is “Military Intelligence” 437 pages. There’s also “Military Intelligence A Picture History”,195 pages and “The Military Intelligence Story, A Photographic History”, 153 pages. There are Fort Holabird photos in all three books and authorized CIC-MI history. Face Book also has a nice page for posting Bird photos and info under Fort Holabird Alumni. RF

    Comment by RF — May 7, 2014 @ 11:38 pm

  1302. For comment 1296 Phil Ostrander: I was born at 112 Williams Ave, parallel to the train tracks, across from the always (it seemed) closed main gate on Dundalk Ave. Grandma’s house- she sewed gas masks during WW11 a the bird. Lived there from 1938 until end of war, moved to nearer St Rita’s school until 1950; then in Cleveland until return to Lochearn in 1955. Have many fond memories of Gwynn Oak Park. Cousin still lives in Grandpa’s house on Pine Ave, out the back gate of the Bird near the Jeep test area. All through the war Grandma rented rooms to CIC trainees at the Williams Ave house. Everything about the Bird strikes up memories for me out here in CA. No wonder I did 20 years as CI/FOI officer! It was osmosis caused by the fumes from Colgate Creek, the Seagram’s Distillery and the GM chassis building yard on the other side of the post.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — May 8, 2014 @ 1:48 pm

  1303. Gordon, RF, and Bob,

    What I plan to post is merely a 2 typewritten page outline of the Fort from 1917 to the present. Gordon, although a history of MI at the post from the 1940’s to the early 70’s would be very interesting, what I have done is a very short historical outline. Maybe someone else can tackle that assignment based on the books cited in RF’s posting.

    Bob, it is interesting how you have connections that go back to St.Helena, just south of the Bird, as well as Gwynn Oak Park in Woodlawn (east meets west). Just as most of Fort Holabird is in our memories, the same is also true of Gwynn Oak. One is now a light industrial park and the other is a county park. Concerning Gwynn Oak, the only thing left is the boat lake (sans boats) and the dam that created it. It was demolished in the summer of 1976. The Dixie Ballroom, one of the last buildings of the park used for entertainment burned down on Feb. 22, 1975. It is now used for hiking, biking and picnicking.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 8, 2014 @ 7:42 pm

  1304. 1302: Phil, as I recall the pronunciation of St Helena, where our movie house for Saturday Westerns was located was “sane ah lean ah” in Baltimore where you walked on the payment and called the POO lease if you had a problem.

    Comment by Bob Hammel — May 12, 2014 @ 9:06 pm

  1305. Bob,

    One of the most beautiful women I ever met was named Helena, as in the face that launched a thousand ships. Anyway, please don’t get me started on “Bal-a-mer, Mer-lyn” and my favorite, “jeet yet” (did you eat yet). Not to mention, “down ne ocean”, as in where we go for our summer vacations. Also, please remember that Washington, D.C., has an “r” after the “a” and is pronounced “Warshington”. Go figure.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 12, 2014 @ 9:32 pm

  1306. Man, if this site is about the Twilight Zone, my experience in INTC is the Twilight Zone’s Twilight Zone. I fell through every crack imaginable. Not a name mentioned in all 1302 posts to date means a thing to me, Drafted Berlin Crisis ’61. Twelve week basic @ Jackson. Did the ‘Bird 12/61-3/62. I didn’t have to do the typing thing as I had taken typing in high school (Park Ridge, NJ, ’52). I worked the 108th’s Buffalo (NY) FO 4/62-7/63. Made SGT E-5 quick-like and was offered O-2 direct 5/63. Et cetera. I got assigned to TUSLOG Det 27 in Turkey, an ASA unit 7/63-11/64. Took an European “out”

    Sometimes I wonder if I even “am.”

    Bill Schulz, S/A (Cred # 5694, Badge UNK… saw it only once)

    Comment by William "Bill" Schulz — May 14, 2014 @ 3:59 pm

  1307. Oh, yeah, I was 26, married, and an industrial designer who topped out #1 of 500 during testing at Jackson. #2 was Cliff Kuchenmeister, also from NJ (New Milford) and the two of us USs were called out of class a few weeks in and told we couldn’t stay without either a 6 month extension or discharge/enlist as RA. We were both out of the service for a few minutes sitting in Personnel.

    Lived on Eastern Blvd and commuted daily. No formations, no duties, nothin’ but classes.

    Also, all I have of records is my DD 214. That’s it.

    Comment by William "Bill" Schulz — May 14, 2014 @ 4:08 pm

  1308. Sorry if the mention of my ranking may have seemed a bit presumptuous… most of my fellow draftees were just kids fresh off the farm with no college. Six or eight of us were given the civvies Schpiell out in Bldg 3704 and only Cliff and I opted to do the MI bit. Once the DI found out what Bldg 3704 was and that we had a requisition for a military taxi ride out there, we had no more problems from him! He treated us with respect (!) figuring we were “plants” in his company! Needless to say, we didn’t let on but just let it play out!

    Comment by William "Bill" Schulz — May 14, 2014 @ 8:47 pm


    Comment by BEN BURT — May 15, 2014 @ 9:35 pm

  1310. Ben (1305),
    Same as Economics 101 at 8:00a.m. in July, exactly.


    Comment by Manny Adler — May 16, 2014 @ 5:14 am

  1311. that post (1305) made me remember that the reason I decided I wanted to be an attorney was because of the bock on constitutional law was what influenced me most. thus 5 years later I found myself in those early morning law classes, again trying to hold my head up and my eyes open after a night of working at the Georgia State Patrol. some things never change, as I now sit here trying to hold my eyes open following a late night playoff high school baseball game, and a one hour drive home. its amazing the memories that flood back in when someone mentions a subject that opens the floodgates. keep the thoughts coming. james h. bone (97B) class Nov 1963 thru April 1964 ( and yes I too remember the blizzard of 1964.

    Comment by james h. bone — May 16, 2014 @ 11:04 am

  1312. Gents,

    Went through the interrogators course (96C2L29) in 1968. Soon after arrival, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated and the Russians entered Czechoslovakia.. We thought we’d be goiing to war for certain.

    Does anyone remember two excellent clubs in Baltimore…….Hollywood Park and Judges……grat places.


    Comment by Gary Miller — May 16, 2014 @ 7:26 pm

  1313. Greetings from a Holabird “dinosaur!” I just stumbled on this site. I was at Holabird [“Signal Depot,” at that time; no “Fort”] from around Jan ’46 to July ’46. Sent there after Military Intel Language School [Mandarin], via Camp Pickett. Had one day of training at Counter Intelligence Center (lock picking) when it was discovered that I had too many “points” to finish training course for discharge. Immediately assigned as Supply Sgt for CIC Hq & Hq Co. Main duty was uniforming agents who had been serving in plain clothes so they could then be discharged in uniform! Enjoyed watching Sunday morning soccer games played there each week by German POWs on the field in front of our barracks building. Very nice duty!

    Comment by Isaac W. Feinberg — May 17, 2014 @ 4:24 pm

  1314. Isaac,

    Welcome to the site! If you want to see one of the last buildings remaining from Fort Holabird of the 1970’s, please go to Google Maps and type 6401 Beckley Street, Baltimore, MD, in the address bar. Here you will see the Officers’ Open Mess Building, which has been leased by the Vietnam Veterans of America, Chapter 451. In front of the building, you will notice a Bell UH-1 Huey Cobra Helicopter and a Sheridan M551A1 Armored Reconnaissance/Airborne Assault Vehicle.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — May 17, 2014 @ 9:10 pm

  1315. OK, let me bounce off the group all the names of INTC personnel I came in contact with, in no particular order- Herb Wills, Al Vallone, Paul Siroky, Roger Rankin, Joe Goetz, Bill Klein, Lindsey Delashmutt, MajGen. Garrison B. Coverdale, Cliff Kuchenmeister, Stan Winarski, Ed Register, Phil Clark.

    Any of them mean anything to anyone?

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 19, 2014 @ 8:31 pm

  1316. Reference (186) I met a post commander
    of the “Bird” by the name LtCol David M Kithcart! We last spoke about a man named Mayer/Myer/Myers/Meyer who he had met at a camp meeting in 1962 at Ft Bragg. You might look for a Army General I think they call “Shy”Meyers! Kithcart said that latter on he was to become instrumental in the forming and creation of the Army’s “Delta Force” as a four star general! Hope you find your dad’s poetry! I’m sure it has had a lasting effect

    Comment by David Henry — May 22, 2014 @ 3:18 pm

  1317. Reference (186) I met a post commander
    of the “Bird” by the name LtCol David M Kithcart! We last spoke about a man named Mayer/Myer/Myers/Meyer who he had m
    et at a camp meeting in 1962 at Ft Bragg. You might look for a Army General I think they call “Shy”Meyers! Kithcart said that latter on he was to become instrumental in the forming and creation of the Army’s “Delta Force” as a four star general! Hope
    you find your dad’s poetry! I’m sure it has had a lasting

    Comment by David Henry — May 22, 2014 @ 3:23 pm

  1318. Reference (186) I met a post commander
    of the “Bird” by the name LtCol David M Kithcart! We last spoke about a man named Mayer/Myer/Myers/Meyer who he
    had met at a camp meeting in 1962 at Ft Bragg. You might look for a Army General I think they call “Shy”Meyers! Kithcart said that latter on he was to become instrumental in the forming and creation of the Army’s “Delta Force” as a four star general! Hope
    you find your dad’s poetry! I’m sure it has had a lasting

    Comment by David Henry — May 22, 2014 @ 3:27 pm

  1319. I just knew it.

    I was searching around the web trying to find some I’d worked with in the spook business. I’d always been suspicious of the first SAIC under which I worked (bad choice of words, I know) of the Buffalo FO.I just found he’s listed on the “Jesus In Love Blogspot,” “A place for LGBTQ spirituality and the arts. Home of the gay Jesus and queer saints. Uniting body, mind and spirit. Open to all.”

    Have I got a nose for them?

    I wonder what that says about me….

    Comment by Bill Schulz — May 25, 2014 @ 12:19 pm

  1320. To all of us:

    A poppy for all our “fallen” comrades…God bless.

    Manny Adler

    Comment by Manny Adler — May 26, 2014 @ 5:12 am

  1321. my dad, MSgt John “Bob” Dietzel was stationed at the ‘Bird from abou 54-61 when we shipped out to Germany. Dad was somehow involved in, I think, quartermaster stuff. we lived in a section of duplexes called informally The Circle, near tennis courts. in the middle of the circle was some play equipment…swings, slides. I was but a wee lad, from 3-10 years old but the following kids names and couples last names have stuck. The Toths, Jackie Broadus (sp?), Steve Dupre (dew-pray). We took the bus into Baltimore to attend Montebello Elementary. I am really interested in any pictures from that time that might include the housing. any info feel free to drop a line…first2tenor@comcast.net Charles Dietzel

    Comment by Charles Dietzel — June 3, 2014 @ 10:45 pm

  1322. Drafted in June 1956,I did Basic and clerk school at Ft Chaffee, Ark. then went to Ft Jay NY. Was sent to Ft Holabird in Dec 1955 to work on the 1st Army G2 Liaison Team at the Central Records Facility,and stayed there until I was discharged in June 1956. Lived on post. Clerk work days, processing security clearance requests from 1st Army. Tended bar at the Officers Club at night. Enjoyed Baltimore: good restaurants, fun on East Baltimore Street. Went to DC often. Met LBJ at his office. Saw Jack and Bobby (and Jackie and Ethel in the audience)at the Dave Beck Teamsters hearings. Easy service. No war. Lucky.

    Comment by John Busker — June 7, 2014 @ 3:47 pm

  1323. hi- I purchased a Kindle edition of Military Intelligence by John Patrick Finnegan, based on the comments of one poster here, looking for pictures of the ‘Bird. this particular book has zero pictures, so just passing on the info in case that’s all you wanted, as I did. thanks to all the helpful info from everyone.

    Comment by Charles — June 8, 2014 @ 2:59 pm

  1324. If I may, I know this is a fort holabird, intell web site, but I would just like to inform all of whom I have reconnected with on this site, that we buried one of my heros last week. That would be my father-law Louis morelli. Dad was 97. A sgt in the artillery division in World War Two, spent 1943 to 1946 fighting in the war. A decorated veteran of the battle of the bulge. He fought all the way to Berlin. He was buried here in Staten Island , ny with an active duty honor guard from fort Dix, nj. Rest in peace Pop. We will miss you.
    Charles Goffredo

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — June 8, 2014 @ 6:10 pm

  1325. Charles,

    May your Father-in-law, Mr. Moreli, rest in peace. I have read where we are losing our WWII veterans at a rate of 400 – 500 a day.

    All the best to you and your family,


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 8, 2014 @ 7:18 pm

  1326. Charles,

    May your Father-in-law, Mr. Morelli, rest in peace. I have read where we are losing our WWII veterans at a rate of 400 – 500 a day.

    All the best to you and your family,


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 8, 2014 @ 7:18 pm

  1327. Charles,

    What is there to really say? My condolences to you all and thanks to your father-in-law and may he rest in


    Comment by Manny Adler — June 9, 2014 @ 5:10 am

  1328. Sixty years ago Wednesday, my wife and I were married at the main street chapel at Holabird. Chaplin Wyandt, a wonderful older man, did the honors. None of our family members were there — we were from California. Six of my buddies in my recent graduating class attended, and we all went to Hausner’s afterwards. I had requested a Holabird assignment (a sure thing) and had expected to be on the demonstration staff at Aberdeen. But, they upped the requirements to E-5 and I wound up at the Central Records Facility reviewing docs from 66th CIC. One day the first sergeant went by my desk and said, “Downs, you’re alerted for shipment.” I immediately thought he meant over choppy seas meaning our wedding plans had gone up in smoke. Instead, I was sent to the 116th in WashDC and into civvies. We still were married on the base. Washington was great. Six of my buddies there — bachelors — had rented a large house in Arlington, and the parties were endless. It was 1954 and the height of the Cold War. Fascinating city. We loved it. Many great memories thanks to the CIC.

    Comment by Jim Downs — June 15, 2014 @ 6:45 pm

  1329. Jim,

    Thanks for your posting on the site. Happy 60th wedding anniversary! You must be about 80 years of age. The more power to you. Hausner’s, a great East Baltimore institution, has been closed for years and the building on Eastern Avenue sits empty although still in reasonable shape from outward appearances.

    All the best!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — June 15, 2014 @ 10:23 pm

  1330. What is happening to the newest posts on this site? Last night, it was up to 1325 and now it is only up to 1317.

    Comment by Bill 117 — July 1, 2014 @ 11:11 pm

  1331. Happy Independence Day! Just read the opening message again. It always brings back fond memories, since my experience was the same. Condolences for Mr. Morrelli. My dad (North Africa, Sicily, Normandy-first wave and the Bulge) has been gone for twenty years and I still miss him. My mom, 94 last Monday, was an invasion army combat nurse, awaiting word of her husband of two months. They, like all of us, did their duty. Enjoy your family and think of our Holabird family tomorrow.

    God bless America!


    Comment by David Edmonds — July 3, 2014 @ 1:06 pm

  1332. Reference Item: 920 Requesting information on LTC Max Belba. ATTENTION: William I. Jennings. Thank you for noting that you knew LTC Belba (“I knew Max during the period l960-68 at FT Holabird and ODCSI, USAREUR, Heidelberg.”) Is there another e-mail address that I can use to get in touch with you? I am still working on a biographical project for LTC Isadore “Max” Belba. Max served in the CIC from 1946 until 1968. Thank you! Mark

    Comment by Mark — July 3, 2014 @ 2:45 pm

  1333. God Bless America again,Please!

    Comment by Edward W. Hotchkiss — July 3, 2014 @ 8:12 pm

  1334. God bless America again,please

    Comment by edward hotchkiss — July 3, 2014 @ 8:21 pm

  1335. God bless America!

    Comment by Edward W. Hotchkiss — July 4, 2014 @ 5:03 pm

  1336. I was at Ft. Holabird in ’67-’68 in classes 67-T-5 and 68-TA-1. Served in Vietnam with the 1st MI BN (ARS), 45th MID/Det E in Phu Bai. The 1st MIBARS just had a reunion at Charleston, SC. Our next reunion will be in Washington, DC likely in May 2015. All ex-MIBARS are encouraged to attend. There will be many ‘Nam and Holabird stories to share.

    Comment by John T Nichols — July 4, 2014 @ 11:05 pm

  1337. God Bless America! Ed(post 187)

    Comment by edward Hotchkiss — July 5, 2014 @ 9:26 pm

  1338. Thank you all for your condolences and prayers for my father-law, Louis Morelli. I forgot to mention that my mother-law, Jennie is still around and that she is 99 years young and still lives in the house that pop built for them in the 1950’s. On a happy note, my grandson Charles IV returned home last Friday after two years with the 2nd Inf Div on the DMZ in South Korea. His next assignment will be with the Big Red One infantry division in Fort Riley,Kansas.
    God bless everyone and their families on this site and God bless America.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — July 6, 2014 @ 1:33 pm

  1339. I arrived at Ft. Holabird from Fort Polk in October 1969 after the bus ride from hell to get there. My arrival was delayed from Ft. Polk because they told me my security clearance was not finalized. You can imagine the thoughts I had about flunking the top secret clearance and becoming a grunt in Vietman. After 2 weeks I received my orders to Holabird and when I arrived was told that the 97B20 class I was supposed to be in was full and that I would be attached to a 97D20 class starting in 3 weeks. I spent those 3 weeks as a security guard at one of the buildings on the base from 11:00 PM till 7:00 AM. I was free to sleep during the day in the barracks and discover Baltimore on the weekends. At the start of the class there were 42 of us learning how to be intelligence clerks. Not the role I had thought I would be learning. During those days in class I remember not applying myself to the training and daydreaming about beer & peppermint schnaps at nearby tavern in Dundalk. Upon graduation in Jan 1070 all but 8 of us went to Vet. language school in Ca. I was assigned to US Army Field Activities Command in D.C. and then to San Juan, Puerto Rico. Looking back it was a blessing that I was transferred to 97D20. I have been having nostalgic moments of late and think of the men who were in my class at Holabird, which is how I stumbled on this site. Haven’t keep tabs on any of the other 41 from my group. All in all, very nice duty for my service to country.

    Comment by William "Les" Bradley — July 9, 2014 @ 4:05 pm

  1340. Charles,

    Good luck to your grandson! It is nice to see that he has carried on the family’s military tradition.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — July 10, 2014 @ 7:54 pm

  1341. Never made it to the Bird but did spend a lot of time at Ft. Bragg (Nov 68 – September 70) in the 14th MI Bn. Inducted in September 1968 and sent to Ft Jackson for Basic. Then to 14th at CONTIC for AIT – 96C. We fully expected to go to Nam but ended up doing 12 weeks in Vietnamese language school after which we just stayed at Bragg. Pretty much a waste of 2 years but I did meet some great people, and have some fond memories.

    Comment by Peter Blum — July 12, 2014 @ 10:04 am

  1342. Interesting site. I was stationed at Holabird from May ’66 to Sep ’66. I took the enlisted agent’s course in class 66-B-24. My dad Charles Akemoto went through the enlisted agent’s course in 1948. After that he went to the Army Language School in Monterrey for a year before being assigned to Japan. He later became a warrant and retired from active service in 1974. Our claim to fame was being assigned to the same unit, the 526th MID in Okinawa at the same time from Oct ’67 to Jul ’69. While we were there, Richard Duarte (comment 190) was also with us in the 526th. Prior to enlisting in Feb ’66, I had to go through a pre-enlistment test and interview which was conducted at the 401st MID in Honolulu. My dad had been assigned to that unit from Jul ’61 to Nov ’65 before he was transferred to the 526th. One of the reasons for the pre-enlistment process was because I needed an age waiver because I would not be 21 until Mar ’67. My original orders even had the agent’s class that I eventually ended up in. Our class was made up of primarily E-2s who made E-3 while attending class. There were a few senior NCOs and 4 Marine NCOs-an E-6, 2 E-5s, and an E-4 who was promoted to E-5 while in class. The majority of the E-2s were college grads who were faced with the draft so they opted for the “best” deal they could get rather than risking becoming 11-bushes. After graduating from Holabird, several of us received orders for the 90th Replacement Battalion APO San Francisco 96307. That’s right, Vietnam after graduation! After spending a year in ‘Nam, I received the assignment to Okinawa and spent the remainder of my active duty time there. Later, I joined the Army Reserve and ended spending 25 years in the Reserves retiring in 1997 as a Sergeant Major. My address is lhswayne@hawaiiantel.net

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — July 14, 2014 @ 10:16 pm

  1343. McCarrick Compound in Saigon has been mentioned several times. Does anyone recall the location of McCarrick Compound? Was it near the main route (Cach Mang/ Cong Ly) between Tan Son Nhut and Saigon?

    Thanks for your help. I’ll check back for any replies.

    Comment by Mike McNally — July 27, 2014 @ 6:15 pm

  1344. Glad we’re back!

    Comment by Manny Adler — August 6, 2014 @ 4:56 am

  1345. I believe I was inducted at Ft. Holabird in July 1957. The name is one I definitely remember. I enlisted in Baltimore, where I lived at the time. From there I was sent to Ft. Jackson, SC, for 8 weeks of basic training. I had some choices, since I enlisted for 3 years to beat the draft, and I wound up going to the Army Security Agency School in Ft. Devens, Mass. I had basic and advanced training as a 984, a Comm Sec Analyst. After that, I had a short leave back to Baltimore, then was sent overseas to Frankfurt, Germany. I went for an interview at the HQ USASAE, and I wound up being stationed in Frankfurt. I loved it there, and traveled through much of Europe on my leave times. I didn’t know Ft. Holabird no longer existed. Seems like everything I once knew is gone. The Gutleut Kaserne, where I was stationed in Frankfurt, is no longer a military post, German or American.

    Comment by Ronald Doss — August 6, 2014 @ 11:11 am

  1346. Hi Ronald,

    Welcome to the Site! It is interesting to hear your story. I, too, am a native Baltimorean and took the extra year to get the MOS of my choice, completed Agent School and Photo Intell School here as well. As you have seen by some of the past postings, most of our former post is gone, save the Officers’ Open Mess and the 3 jeep test tracks. The street layout, what is left of it, is still intact.


    Phil Ostrander, 97B40

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — August 8, 2014 @ 8:14 pm

  1347. This is copy of email I sent to old Heidelberg hands today. As I note it was on ARD yesterday and runs about 80 minutes. Subject is closing of Heidelberg-Mannheim areas after 65 years.

    This was on ARD last night so follow the link to the website and scroll one entry right under Reports and the film is there. It may only be there a few days.

    Got this from a friend and only watched part of it. It may be an hour show.

    > http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv This is shortcut to TV site. Go down to Reportage and Doku, scroll one box to the right and you will see the report. Click on it. May only be available several days.

    I was in Heidelberg 69-70 after first VN tour, then to Kaiserslautern from 70-71 and then back to VN.


    > “Frau Johann” aka “Miss Jo” worked for the Americans starting in 1945, after they got to the Heidelberg area; but, before Germany’s surrender. Her last position was with the CID in Heidelberg (Autobahn/Stem Kaserne, Mannheim-Seckenheim). When she reached mandatory retirement age, she came back as a volunteer 2-3 days a week. She stopped about age 90, shortly before the CID Headquarters moved to Kaiserslautern.
    > She has been diligently sending info on the closures in HD/MA.
    > Here is a link to the movie, which is being shown on German channel 1 tomorrow night, and which will be available online a few days later:
    > http://www.goodbye-gi.de/en/

    Comment by Bob Hammel — August 13, 2014 @ 9:42 pm

  1348. Important for history and Heidelberg hands. Sent this email today.
    This was on ARD last night so follow the link to the website and scroll one entry right under Reports and the film is there. It may only be there a few days.

    Got this from a friend and only watched part of it. It may be an hour show.

    > http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv This is shortcut to TV site. Go down to Reportage and Doku, scroll one box to the right and you will see the report. Click on it. May only be available several days.

    I was in Heidelberg 69-70 after first VN tour, then to Kaiserslautern from 70-71 and then back to VN.


    > “Frau Johann” aka “Miss Jo” worked for the Americans starting in 1945, after they got to the Heidelberg area; but, before Germany’s surrender. Her last position was with the CID in Heidelberg (Autobahn/Stem Kaserne, Mannheim-Seckenheim). When she reached mandatory retirement age, she came back as a volunteer 2-3 days a week. She stopped about age 90, shortly before the CID Headquarters moved to Kaiserslautern.
    > She has been diligently sending info on the closures in HD/MA.
    > Here is a link to the movie, which is being shown on German channel 1 tomorrow night, and which will be available online a few days later:
    > http://www.goodbye-gi.de/en/

    Comment by Bob Hammel — August 13, 2014 @ 9:46 pm

  1349. After basic at Ft. Knox graduated from Agents Coarse
    in 1954 and was assigned to the Baltimore Field Office
    and eventually to the Salisbury, MD post until discharge
    in May 1956.

    Comment by Jim Smith — August 17, 2014 @ 4:49 pm

  1350. CIC Agents class in 1954 – then assigned to the
    Baltimore office.

    Comment by Jim Smith — August 17, 2014 @ 8:59 pm

  1351. Ref #1155 Susan Jacobs post. My dad SFC Stanley L. Slifer Sr. was a Holabird man. He went to the CI Agent course in 1957 and was assigned to “US Army Research Unit” (ASA) at Arlington Hall Station with Lloyd Walterdorf (deceased). Attended the FOI (agent handler) course 1959 and assigned to the 513th in Bremerhaven, Ger from 1960-65. He spoke German & Hungarian. He and MSG Vikeo Japenen (deceased 2006) worked FOI there. He said during his tour, a CI agent was shot with his own revolver in the back of the head and found floating in create in Bremerhaven Harbor. He said, the guy must of gotten too close to something. He said he always wondered what had happened. From 1965-66 he was the resident agent in Tulsa, OK assigned to the 112th where he retired and was replaced by CW3 Tony Parker. Dad passed away on 22 May 2014 at the age of 88. My mother says she thinks she remembers your father. I have a 8×10 photo take around 64-65 of my dad receiving an award from the C.O. of the 513th in Bremerhaven with five other agents in it. harryslifer@gmail.com

    Comment by Harry Slifer — August 18, 2014 @ 10:20 pm

  1352. Served in the 109th MI Group, Cleveland, Ohio, April 1966-April 1969, as an Intelligence Coordinator. I loved Cleveland, three of the best years of my life. Anybody out there remember me? Still live in Brooklyn, New York.

    Comment by Thomas E. Ahern — August 22, 2014 @ 9:10 pm

  1353. Hmm is anyone else encountering problems with
    the images on this blog loading? I’m trying to figure out if its a problem on my end or if it’s the blog.
    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    Comment by Fish With Captain Frank — August 23, 2014 @ 5:44 am

  1354. I just finished the Axeman Conspiracy that someone on the site recommended. Highly recommend it to others. It is a fact that there are many stories that can’t be told because of classification. Many of the graduates of the Bird never get their exploits know by others, and don’t expect that to happen. A salute to all of them.

    Comment by Don Clifton — August 23, 2014 @ 5:36 pm

  1355. I attended the bird during summer and fall of 1966 as 97b40, MI Special Agent. Fond memories of Mrs. Kelcka teaching us typing and of “The Shark” teaching us how not to interview in the “Fish Bowl”. We were marched to class each day by a JarHead E-6 who would command us to route step as we crossed the pontoon bridge over Colgate Creek. Of course after the first day we stayed in step and really got that sucking undulating several feet above the water. Assigned to the Cleveland Field Office for a year and then to the 7MI at Camp Casey, ROK after the Pueblo was snatched.

    Comment by Bill Vogel — August 23, 2014 @ 9:10 pm

  1356. Attended Holabird in the Fall of 70. 96D Image Interpetor . Afterwards sent to DC for two weeks then off to Ft Bragg. Got to spend several months TDY with the Navy at FICLANT. Then volunteered for Nam and went in December of 71, returned in Dec of 72. Early release at that time. Went to Ft Holabird as I wanted a school close to the DC area as i spent 6 or 7 years growing up there and a few years in the Harrisburg area. Pleasant memories of Ft Holabird. Great group of classmates. Final MOS 96D2TSR. They found out that I spoke spanish.

    Comment by Andy Reeve — August 26, 2014 @ 2:21 am

  1357. #1341
    Peter where you in Company B

    Capt Coffee, Capt. Sterling, Capt. Issacs, Mr. Stuckey???

    Comment by Daryl Petrarca — August 27, 2014 @ 2:16 pm

  1358. Anybody here that was permanent party at the Bird April 1963 to 1966?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — August 29, 2014 @ 5:34 pm

  1359. I was PP September 1965 to June 1968. I worked at USAINTS S2, Troop Command.

    Comment by bill — September 1, 2014 @ 11:05 pm

  1360. I just sent this on to a friend (We had been telling drinking stories). I had all but forgotten about this episode and had to dig it out of my computer files. . . .

    One Friday evening about 56 years ago, when I was in the army at The US Army Intelligence Center at Fort Holabird, Maryland, before I was assigned to Germany, some of my army buddies suggested I meet an Anglo-Catholic priest (who argued like a Jesuit) . We went to some sort of church social function in Baltimore, and afterward, a group of us sat in the rectory and talked, getting drunk as much from the conversation and our youth as we were from the bourbon we were drinking from teacups. We argued about the existence of God, the merits of a local barmaid, and other arcane points and, at one point I knew —— with the special clarity and certainty which only the deeply and truly drunk experience——the answers to the questions of existence. I felt a great sense of peace. How is it put in the Bible? The peace that “passeth (surpasses) understanding.” I felt that way until the next morning when I realized that I had (O my God!) forgotten the answer. I felt desperate! If only I could remember! But I couldn’t. And I didn’t. And life went on without the certainty of divine guidance. But what a time that was, a true moment of peace, security and belief. I never thought of that evening as one of irreverence or sacrilege, but as part of young men’s search for truth.

    Richard G. Safran
    rgs407@yahoo.com, Fort Holabird (Summer 1958)

    Comment by Rick Safran — September 4, 2014 @ 6:29 pm

  1361. For those searching for picture records of Ft. Holabird under construction in 1953-55, I am a dinosaur who graduated 9/7/55, Class B313–I believe–as a 971.30 and I still have the Graduation Program which came with a 16 page brochure entitled ‘COUNTER INTELLIGENCE CORPS SCHOOL’ issued to commemorate the new buildings’ completion 8/1/55. It has pix of Gen. Campbell, Col. Hoffman (Asstnt. Commandant), groundbreaking, construction progress, completion & views of several portions of the interior. Contact me via email if interested in the above.

    Perhaps more about me at a later entry. SA #12345

    Comment by Richard (Dick) Leiweke — September 4, 2014 @ 7:48 pm

  1362. Rick,

    So did you convert or stay? PP 55-57.


    Comment by Manny Adler — September 5, 2014 @ 5:22 am

  1363. I was an actor at the Bird between Summer of 1960 and Apr of 1962.
    If anyone wants to contact me, I am at e-mail address willston@embarqmail.com

    Comment by walter r illston — September 7, 2014 @ 8:14 am

  1364. REF. 1174 – Jim Downs & Dick Murphy – I was assigned to 116th aka 7022ARU 9 July ’55 through 6 Dec. ’56. Never got up to 2nd Floor – was happy working on 1st under Maj. Ralph Hendrickson, a real gentleman. Immediate supervisor was a grizzled old MSGT from WWII named Edwards. What a guy he was! Of the 5 of us from Class B313 assigned to BMW, another great guy whose name I just can’t remember (was drafted as a Rhodes Scholar) who did liaison & records checks on all local agencies – police, schools, etc. Edwards reserved ONI & OSI for himself (must have been some good looking secretaries in those offices) which left just about everything else (except FBI, CIA, CSI, NSA & ASA to higher-ups) to me – E1 Agent SA#12345. I really enjoyed my visits to the W. H. Secret Service Protective Research Sect. And, at the Credit Bureau, got to know the clerk from the FBI doing the same checks. Got caught, while in our office, for 2 S… details so spent as much time as possible doing ‘liaison work’. Only time I know that I crossed the trail of a Communist was while reviewing a Secret File at the State Depart. & each page was initialed as having been read by AH.

    My only gripe was having to live in a very expensive place on E1 then E2 pay plus BAQ the same as others in ‘lower rent’ places. Became an E3 10 days b4 separation!

    Does anybody remember my other B313’s: Jim Taylor (grad student out of Vanderbilt); Bob Stevenson (?a Legislative Asstnt.to U.S. Senator from Maine) & Art Bronzek, St. Louis, MO? Or does Capt. Heckendorn (was activated for Korea when listed in ‘Who’s Who in American Educators) ring a bell?

    Holabird & MDW were 31 months of the most enjoyable times in my life.

    Comment by Richard (Dick) Leiweke — September 10, 2014 @ 10:20 pm

  1365. WOW! Guess you, Bill, and I were the only ones running the place. You in S2, me in G2.

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — September 11, 2014 @ 11:00 pm

  1366. It was a great 3 years. I wouldn’t change a thing!

    Comment by bill — September 12, 2014 @ 10:39 pm

  1367. Guess strange things do happen. I was returning as VW Bug to a guy after fixing it and he mentioned he served in the Army in Baltomre. He was a “birdman” also. His nam is Charled Harman. He started out as a 97D but was later made into the bandmaster for the Post. From what he said, he was there from 62 to 65. Just wondering if anyone remembers him.

    Comment by Kurt Schulz — September 16, 2014 @ 10:13 pm

  1368. Guys and Gals: I just received my Retired B & C today. i must say it is impressive. thanks to the program for making it possible. James H. Bone

    Comment by James H. .Bone — September 26, 2014 @ 11:49 am

  1369. Attended USAINTS from October 1958 to March 1959. Then posted first to Wurzburg,Germany for a few weeks before being posted to a resident agency at 3 VonHessingstrasse,Bad Kissingen,Germany.It was a very special time and I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I had opted to stay in the Army.

    Comment by richard pross — September 27, 2014 @ 12:01 am

  1370. Today, I drove past the former Ft. Holabird Officers’ Open Mess and noticed that the Huey Cobra that had sat in front of it for the past several years, was gone. I had been told by the VVA Hall Manager that this was imminent as vandals had cracked the plexiglass in the cockpit on several occasions. It was towed away and now sits on display at Martin Air Field in nearby Middle River, MD. In place of it is the VVA “Welcome Home” white trailer.

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — September 27, 2014 @ 9:04 pm

  1371. permanent party 11/64-07/67 dept area studies (das)

    Comment by frank stella — September 27, 2014 @ 11:54 pm

  1372. A note to Phil Ostrander

    Phil….I was at the Bird in 68/69 as a 96C2L29.

    I saw Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young at the Baltimore Convention Center in 68….. Was that on Howard Street then? Also, do you remember two great clubs back then, Hollywood Park and Judges?

    Best regards,


    Comment by Gary Miller — October 9, 2014 @ 5:03 pm

  1373. Hi Gary,

    Please reference #1208. I think that you attended the CSNY concert at the Baltimore Civic Center on Howard Street (2 buildings with somewhat similar names). Anyway, next time you come to Washington to see your son, why don’t you consider a side trip to Baltimore?



    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 9, 2014 @ 8:30 pm

  1374. Thanks Phil! I will definitely do that…..possibly next month already.

    Best regards,


    Comment by Gary Miller — October 16, 2014 @ 4:23 pm

  1375. Hi Gary,

    I will look for your next response on my email address that I left for you in my last posting. Please keep in mind that Fridays are the best day as the VVA Hall at Holabird Industrial Park is only open 2 days per week.



    Comment by Phil Ostrander — October 17, 2014 @ 1:25 pm

  1376. I reported to the Bird for a pre enlistment physical in the Navy in April of 1968.The place was really run down.My day was made by getting an unexpected 4F,which was like god at the time.

    Comment by Steve allen — October 21, 2014 @ 2:16 pm

  1377. Is everyone napping?

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — November 10, 2014 @ 11:49 pm

  1378. Dan (1372),

    Kind of..but we all woke up for Veteran’s day.


    Comment by Manny Adler — November 11, 2014 @ 5:56 am

  1379. enjoyed your story; was at USAINTS March-May 68 after BCT at Dix,graduated Sp 4 97D20. Assigned to Washington DC Field Detachment DODNACC,where I ETS Jan 71.Holabird was like being in college,except for the uniforms. In the evenings we’d hit Oriole games,came home every weekend. After graduation only wore a uniform once,for E-5 promotion board at Holabird. Happy Veterans Day everybody.

    Comment by Dave Johnson — November 11, 2014 @ 12:45 pm

  1380. Happy Veterans’ Day to all who wore the uniform and thank you for your service!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 11, 2014 @ 1:00 pm

  1381. I wish all U.S.Military Veterans and especially Ft. Holabird Alumni(187) a peaceful Veterans Day. May God bless America!


    Comment by Ed Hotchkiss — November 11, 2014 @ 1:21 pm

  1382. Stumbled on this on Veterans’ Day and the anniversary of my first full day at Ft. Myer (South Post) “Headquarters Co., US ARMY” where I spent most of my 3 years working for STAFFCOMM at the Pentagon. Very odd, as I had just graduated Class 67-R-6 at Ft. Holabird (1966). Was there when Baltimore won the World Series, but was too young to drink!

    We were mostly RA’s, but had a few reservists in the class, a couple of HUGE marines and one Green Beret.

    I was supposed to be an Intelligence Analyst, but they need 10 guy pronto to handle communications for the Chief of Staff that had spotless backgrounds.

    The Chaplain at Ft. H the time was Captain James Bond. I am not making this up.

    Comment by Jack Socha — November 11, 2014 @ 1:40 pm

  1383. Dan, Ed, Manny, Phil, fellow Ft. Holabird grads and all Veterans……Happy Veterans Day and heartfelt thanks for your service and sacrifices which all contribute toward making America great.

    God Bless


    Comment by Gary Miller — November 11, 2014 @ 5:16 pm

  1384. Dan, Ed, Gary, Manny, et al;

    I will be presenting information on the topic of Fort Holabird, 1918 to the Present, on February 16, 2015, at 7 p.m., at the Dundalk-Patapsco Neck Historical Society, 4 Center Place, Dundalk, MD. If you are in Baltimore, place stop by this location for their monthly meeting. If not, please email me at ppstrndr@verizon.net for a copy of my presentation.



    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 12, 2014 @ 4:20 pm

  1385. WOW, glad to see Vets Day was the end of that hibernation cycle. Let’s all meet at Squires for a round and a pizza!! (I wish)

    Comment by Dan Ritchie — November 13, 2014 @ 11:41 pm

  1386. Dan,

    Who says that you can’t go back! Squires lives! Check out their website at squirescatering.com Its hard to believe that it has been around for 60 years, almost as long as some of us folks. Although the formstone façade has gone, it still sits at the same location, and it has more than doubled in size. They offer 7 different kinds of pizza, not to mention various multiple toppings. Manja, Manja!!!


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 14, 2014 @ 11:11 am

  1387. Remember the “Bird” fondly. I enlisted (my draft number under lottery was 79) and did basic training (A-10-2) at Fort Bragg, NC from Jun-Aug 1968. Then assigned to Ft Holabird, Baltimore, MD for Intelligence Coordinator training (97D MOS I think) from Sept-Dec 1968. I wasn’t 21 so I couldn’t attend the CI agent course. My parents lived in Landover Hills, MD (about 90 mins away from Holabird) so I would hitch hike home on weekends. Wore my uniform so I was always picked up, usually in a car with other GIs or Cadets from West Point heading home for a weekend visit. After Holabird my final assignment was with the 902nd MI Group, Falls Church, VA from Jan 1969 to Jun 1970. Never wore my uniform again. Except for basic, I basically never left home during my 3 years of service. I was luckily. New guys from Bragg and Holabird who were sent to Nam and never made it home. God bless them and thank you’ll for your service, too. Regards.

    Comment by Michael Bloomer — November 16, 2014 @ 6:05 pm

  1388. A comment of my 1380 comment above: Does anybody who was at Ft Holabird in the mid 1960’s remember the mockup of the Viet Nam village site located somewhere outside the post where the Intelligence School held Nam orientation and intelligence tactics training? Think it was in park somewhere. One day as students we were assigned to play the roles of Viet Cong insurgents at the site. We had to “bury” weapons and pretend we were just villagers, not Cong. Wearing black pajamas, straw hats, and carrying wooden rifles, we were transported to the site in an uncovered duce and a half. We got a lot of strange looks from other motorists who wonder what the heck we were. It was really funny. Don’t know why I remember that except it was so bizarre. Regards.

    Comment by Michael Bloomer — November 16, 2014 @ 6:31 pm

  1389. Hello:
    Long time since I posted. I was just passing through and saw an entry by Wayne Akemoto (1342). What a surprise, I remember Wayne joining the 526th MID on Okinawa from Vietnam. His father, Charles was a warrant officer and one of the smartest and nicest guys that I have ever met. I was 23, an agent and having a great time. I sometimes did some things that I was not particularly proud of, usually involving alcohol. I remember Charles offering some wise advice in a way that I later realized was done in a casual and non threatening way. I never had a chance to thank him and tell him that I really did enjoy our conversations. Glad to hear that all is well Wayne, btw, I always felt that my time on the Rock gave me a time to mature and enabled me to move forward when I came home. Happy Thanksgiving

    Comment by Richard Duarte — November 19, 2014 @ 9:52 pm

  1390. Guys,

    My presentation on the History of Fort Holabird, at the Dundalk and Patapsco Neck Historical Society has been changed to March 16, 2015 a at 7:00 p.m. (Ref. 1377).

    Thank you,


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 21, 2014 @ 3:05 pm

  1391. For some reason, my latest post was deleted. To reiterate, my presentation at the Dundalk – Patapsco Neck Historical Society, on the History of Fort Holabird, has been changed to March 16, 2015 at 7:00 p.m.

    Thank you!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 25, 2014 @ 7:26 pm

  1392. It has been a while since I visited this site. Just want to wish a Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Holabird alumni and their families, and to all service members past and present. A special greeting to my grandson Charles IV , serving with the big Red One in Kansas.

    Comment by Charles Goffredo — November 26, 2014 @ 2:30 pm

  1393. For you Holabird fanatics, an excellent view of the Post can be found at http://www.waynedow.net/pdffiles/extract4.pdf. You can also Google, Fort Holabird, and locate this website on page 3 listed as “(PDF) Fort Holabird – Dow”. In it you will find the Officers’ Guide Description which gives a complete description and history of the Post. Included are several excellent pics: HQ Bldg. #12, Barracks Bldg., Parade Field, Chapel, Library, Theatre, Officers’s Club, Swimming Pool, Fort Holabird Boat, Army Intelligence School. Also included are: a Commencement Brochure and pics of Gen. Samuel B. Holabird, the Quartermaster Depot, and others.

    Happy Thanksgiving!

    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 27, 2014 @ 2:21 pm

  1394. Phil(1383)

    Best overall coverage of FT. Holabird I have seen to date. Coverage of Colgate Creek may not have enhanced article!

    Comment by Edward Hotchkiss — November 28, 2014 @ 9:18 pm

  1395. Reference to post 1380. Good to read about your relationship with my father. We had a pretty unique situation having a father and son in the same unit. For a few months, I worked directly under my dad. The situation was a little difficult, but all worked out well in the end. My dad passed in 2001 and is interred at Punchbowl. Richard, for your info, Ernie Nagasawa and John Mock are also at Punchbowl. In fact, COL Mock passed away in August. He and his wife Phyllis are in the same niche. Don’t know if you remember Itsuo Tokunaga, but he is also at Punchbowl. Drop me a line at lhswayne@hawaiiantel.net

    Comment by Wayne Akemoto — November 28, 2014 @ 9:31 pm

  1396. RE: Post 1383, Great pamphlet and pictures. It brought back a lot of memories that I had completely forgot.

    Comment by Bill — November 28, 2014 @ 11:45 pm

  1397. Phil (1383),
    Thanks for your last post and ditto Ed. You keep us posting.

    Comment by Manny Adler — November 30, 2014 @ 8:43 am

  1398. Manny, Bill, and Ed,

    Thank you for the feedback on the Fort Holabird – Dow site. At the time, I used to blame Maryland’s 2 U.S. Senators for the closing of our beloved Post. However, since then I discovered this information on another site under “Fort Holabird”. Back in 1965, the Army made the determination that the Post’s training capacity was strained to the limit, due to the fact that a double shift of classes had to run in order to meet the needs imposed by the war in Vietnam. Around the year 1970, potential relocation sites were Fort Lewis and Fort Huachuca. Reasoning supporting such a move included the following: there was little if any room for expansion at the present location, in fact, there was not enough open airspace for the movement of personnel and equipment via that means. Additionally, the Army wanted an uncluttered electomagnetic spectrum, which the Post simply could not provide there.

    Hence, the official transfer began on 5/03/1971 and was completed by 9/03/1971. The final graduation class concluded their ceremonies on 9/02/1971.

    The above helped me to understand the decision to move to Huachaca somewhat better. I also found some satisifaction in the fact that all of the local politicians fought very heard to preserve the Post and to save its 2000 civilian jobs and to keep our 3000 military personnel stationed there.


    Comment by Phil Ostrander — November 30, 2014 @ 4:19 pm

  1399. What a great find 43 years after I graduated from the MI School at Fort Holabird in late February or early March of 1971. We all knew that we were one of the last classes to graduate from Fort Holabird before it moved to Arizona, and we all knew it was a special place, unique to military training experiences, almost like going back to college. What a privilege to be there. Watergate’s John Dean and Charles Colson were “incarcerated there at the time and we were told to stay away from them. I remember the “Block” was a place in Baltimore a good soldier should have stayed away from. Also remember watching the newly released movie on base,”Tora, Tora, Tora”. M/\.I.’s in the movie were sort of portrayed as heroes, and with every mentioned of M.I. in the movie great cheers went up. Nearly our entire class were sent to Vietnam from Fort Holabird, trained as combat analysts we were sent all over the place, and I wound up at the 720th MP Bn, 18th MP Brigade, Long Binh Post. The 720th provided security and some combat coverage for convoys throughout the 3rd and 4th quarters of VN. While in Vietnam, those of us that were there, met on several occasions in Saigon for a little R&R and to maintain the great relationships that we developed at Holabird. There was very little contact after our tour in Vietnam. If anybody reads this, are you aware of any reunions of classes graduating from Holabird during this time period? I hope most of us are still around! – Ted Latham, still from New Jersey

    Comment by Ted Latham — December 6, 2014 @ 11:32 pm

  1400. What a great find 43 years after graduating from Fort Holabird in Baltimore in late February or early March, 1971.We all knew that we would be one of the last classes to graduate as combat analysts before Holabird moved to Arizona. I remember those of us that had any sense stayed away from the “Block” in Baltimore, I remember I felt like I was back in college and privileged/lucky to be in such a great place, also remember seeing John Dean and Charles Colson (of Watergate Fame who were “incarcerated” for a while at Holabird), the area taverns and trips to Baltimore and DC, and watching the recently released movie “Tora, Tora, Tora” at the base theater were we all went wild with chairs after every mention of the role of M.I. types at Pearl Harbor. Most of the analysts from my class were sent to various locations in Vietnam. I was sent to the 720th MP Bn, 18th MP Brig, at Long Binh Post. While in Vietnam members of our class maintained our close relationships by organizing R&R trips to Saigon. After we got home we pretty drifted apart. If anyone knows of any reunions that exist for those of us who were at Holabird in 1971, I would appreciate a post with that info. I hope most of us are still around! Ted Latham – still from New Jersey

    Comment by Ted Latham — December 6, 2014 @ 11:47 pm

  1401. Hi all. I’m looking for anyone that may have known my late father, Gary Lange, who was at Ft. Holabird from 27May68-11Sep68, finishing up as a 97B40. I believe he was then assigned to HHC XXIV Corp USARPAC-Vn on 20Oct68. Thanks.

    Comment by J Lange — December 11, 2014 @ 5:47 am

  1402. I helped build the first Special Security Office (SSO) at Fort Huachuca with Major Hilbert and send the first secure message on 1 November 1968.
    In 1970 we received a visit notification that MG McChristian, ACSI, DA was coming to visit the post. McChristian had been a West Point classmate of MG Lotz, Commander, STRATCOM and Fort Huachuca.
    The primary briefer during the visit was COL Roy Kane, Commander, Combat Surveillance and Electronic Warfare School and also included the Commander of the US Army Security Agency Test & Evaluation Center.
    McChristian was scheduled to depart on a Friday, but his aide called the SSO and asked that an Eyes Only Message be sent to the Pentagon to notify the ACSI staff that McChristian was staying in Arizona over the weekend.
    In 1971, I delivered the Eyes Only message from BG Blakefield to MG Latta, new commander of STRATCOM, announcing that Fort Huachuca was selected as the new home for Military Intelligence. MG Latta, AKA “Wild Bill” paid little attention to the very short message on a late Friday afternoon. Apparently, when he finally read the message and made some phone calls, the entire STRATCOM staff was called in on a Saturday morning to evaluate this news and find reasons to delay and even block the move.
    Lotz and McChristian, along with Roy Kane, had made personal commitments that Latta was not aware of.

    Roy Kane retired in 1972 and became the Dean/Chief of setting up a campus for the local junior college, Cochise College, on Fort Huachuca and eventually a large second campus in Sierra Vista, AZ, in addition to the main campus near Douglas, AZ.

    MG Latta later retired in Sierra Vista and was a partner in some of the largest real estate developments in the area.

    My wife and I just purchased four acres of land south of Fort Huachuca for our retirement.

    Comment by Clark Hunt — December 11, 2014 @ 7:45 pm

  1403. What a great site. Found it yesterday and have been reading and remembering ever since. Was stationed at Holabird twice during 28 years in MI. First was Jan-May 66 for the 97B CI Agent Course. Then spent a year and a half with the 526th on Okinawa, first at Camp Kue doing investigations under CWO Charley McCarthy, then running sources out of the Naha Field Office. We had a great bunch of guys there; spent time at Club Cobean with Pete Nelson (Who was my best man a few years later), Bart Chimenti, Mario Fascitelli, Rick Duarte, Craig Arnot, Tom Turse, and many others. A couple months before I was due to rotate, the Commander, LTC John Mock and the SGM, Richard Radachowsky, convinced me that I should re-enlist for 6 yrs which would allow me to put $10,000 in the bank; then I should apply for OCS, and, upon graduation, I would only owe the Army 2 years. Was then sent back to Holabird from Jan to Aug 68 to wait for an OCS class, during which I worked at the FTX committee with MSG Carter, Don Clifton, John Verrecchia, Joe Bandiera, and many others, spending lots of time at Fort Howard and leading students on surveillance exercises in downtown Bawlmer. Will send more input at a later date about my other 25 years in the business, the high point of which was commanding JAROC (B) for two and a half years. Best